Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools

From: Pat Horne <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2016 12:53:38 -0500

Bob,

I've been using DeWalt cordless stuff since the 14.4v stuff was new. I now have 18v tools and really like them. The new, lighter batteries are great!

I had a few 18v Milwaukee tools for a while but they didn't live up to my expectations. Our Habitat electrical crew used to use them too but had too much trouble with reliability so they changed to DeWalt. 

Several things to consider:
Newer, higher voltage tools are great but they cost more. 

Consider factory refurbished tools, much cheaper. (I bought a 1/2" drill, 1/4" impact driver, 2 XLR batteries case @ a charger for $110.)

Whatever brand you select, buy tools that use the same battery. That way you can buy a few batteries, 1 charger & bare tools. Much cheaper that way. 

Pat Horne 
We support Caldwell County Habitat for Humanity

On Apr 9, 2016, at 11:02 AM, Bob Spidell <[email-masked]> wrote:

Folks,

I realize this is like bringing up 'best oil' or 'best tires' on a car list, but I'm in the market for a battery drill/driver/sander/etc. combo to replace my ancient--but still working--Makita 9V driver-drill.  I want something with all the 'goodies;' I'll need the usual driver/drill, but also need a portable sander (belt and/or disc), and at least the option for more attachments.

I know I probably can't lose with DeWalt, Milwaukee, Makita or even Craftsman--hell, they might all come out of the same factory in China for all I know--but would like to see if there's a consensus on best overall.  Is more voltage always better, or is 14.4V better for some reason than 19.2V, etc.?    My main issue, and the reason I haven't retired the old Makita yet, is that the batteries always seem to lose capacity over time.  The 9V Makita is nickel-metal-hydride, and both the OEM--which are too expensive IMO--and cheap, off-brand aftermarket ones all lose charge when not used, and lose capacity after repeated charging.  I know Li-Ion is better, but a battery is a battery, and they all will lose some capacity over time.

Any and all opinions, rants, etc. welcome.

Bob
_______________________________________________

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

_______________________________________________

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

---

From: Paul Parkanzky <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 18:02:41 -0400

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I have Bosch 18v Li-Ion impact driver and hammer drills and I absolutely
love them.  The charge seems to last forever.  The impact driver is the
higher-torque model, with something like 125 lb-ft. of torque, which is
usually enough to do wheel swaps.  I can't say enough great stuff about
them.

-Paul

On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 12:02 PM, Bob Spidell <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Folks,
>
> I realize this is like bringing up 'best oil' or 'best tires' on a car
> list, but I'm in the market for a battery drill/driver/sander/etc. combo to
> replace my ancient--but still working--Makita 9V driver-drill.  I want
> something with all the 'goodies;' I'll need the usual driver/drill, but
> also need a portable sander (belt and/or disc), and at least the option for
> more attachments.
>
> I know I probably can't lose with DeWalt, Milwaukee, Makita or even
> Craftsman--hell, they might all come out of the same factory in China for
> all I know--but would like to see if there's a consensus on best overall.
> Is more voltage always better, or is 14.4V better for some reason than
> 19.2V, etc.?    My main issue, and the reason I haven't retired the old
> Makita yet, is that the batteries always seem to lose capacity over time.
> The 9V Makita is nickel-metal-hydride, and both the OEM--which are too
> expensive IMO--and cheap, off-brand aftermarket ones all lose charge when
> not used, and lose capacity after repeated charging.  I know Li-Ion is
> better, but a battery is a battery, and they all will lose some capacity
> over time.
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">I have Bosch 18v Li-Ion impact driver and hammer drills an=
d I absolutely love them.=C2=A0 The charge seems to last forever.=C2=A0 The=
 impact driver is the higher-torque model, with something like 125 lb-ft. o=
f torque, which is usually enough to do wheel swaps.=C2=A0 I can&#39;t say =
enough great stuff about them.<div><br></div><div>-Paul<br><div class=3D"gm=
ail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 12:02 PM, =
Bob Spidell <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" t=
arget=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid=
;padding-left:1ex">Folks,<br>
<br>
I realize this is like bringing up &#39;best oil&#39; or &#39;best tires&#3=
9; on a car list, but I&#39;m in the market for a battery drill/driver/sand=
er/etc. combo to replace my ancient--but still working--Makita 9V driver-dr=
ill.=C2=A0 I want something with all the &#39;goodies;&#39; I&#39;ll need t=
he usual driver/drill, but also need a portable sander (belt and/or disc), =
and at least the option for more attachments.<br>
<br>
I know I probably can&#39;t lose with DeWalt, Milwaukee, Makita or even Cra=
ftsman--hell, they might all come out of the same factory in China for all =
I know--but would like to see if there&#39;s a consensus on best overall.=
=C2=A0 Is more voltage always better, or is 14.4V better for some reason th=
an 19.2V, etc.?=C2=A0 =C2=A0 My main issue, and the reason I haven&#39;t re=
tired the old Makita yet, is that the batteries always seem to lose capacit=
y over time.=C2=A0 The 9V Makita is nickel-metal-hydride, and both the OEM-=
-which are too expensive IMO--and cheap, off-brand aftermarket ones all los=
e charge when not used, and lose capacity after repeated charging.=C2=A0 I =
know Li-Ion is better, but a battery is a battery, and they all will lose s=
ome capacity over time.<br>
<br>
Any and all opinions, rants, etc. welcome.<br>
<br>
Bob</blockquote></div></div></div></div>

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From: Tom & Marge FitzGibbon <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 00:10:45 +0000 (UTC)

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<html><body><font face=3D"Helvetica">Bob,<br><br>In my life experience the =
higher the voltage the better the performance and the newer LIthium batteri=
es are a great improvement over NiCad. They lose a charge much more slowly =
sitting on a shelf, although I have found they are also affected by tempera=
ture so lose a charge in an unheated garage in the winter much faster than =
in a heated garage. My other observation is stick with one brand so you hav=
e one charger if you can. I did not do that and it is a PITA managing the d=
ifferent batteries and chargers. <br><br>I've been a long time fan of DeWal=
t and Porter Cable, but I recently bought a Makita and am very impressed. I=
've had several of their corded tools over the years but was unimpressed by=
 earlier generations of their battery operated tools. Their current tools h=
owever seem to be a big improvement. <br><br>Hope that helps. <br><br>Tom<b=
r><br>Sent from XFINITY Connect Mobile App<br><br><br>------ Original Messa=
ge ------<br><br>From: Bob Spidell<br>To: Shop Talk<br>Sent: April 9, 2016 =
at 2:12 PM<br>Subject: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools<br><br>Folks,<br>=
<br>I realize this is like bringing up 'best oil' or 'best tires' on a car =
<br>list, but I'm in the market for a battery drill/driver/sander/etc. comb=
o <br>to replace my ancient--but still working--Makita 9V driver-drill. &nb=
sp;I <br>want something with all the 'goodies;' I'll need the usual driver/=
drill, <br>but also need a portable sander (belt and/or disc), and at least=
 the <br>option for more attachments.<br><br>I know I probably can't lose w=
ith DeWalt, Milwaukee, Makita or even <br>Craftsman--hell, they might all c=
ome out of the same factory in China <br>for all I know--but would like to =
see if there's a consensus on best <br>overall. &nbsp;Is more voltage alway=
s better, or is 14.4V better for some <br>reason than 19.2V, etc.? &nbsp; &=
nbsp;My main issue, and the reason I haven't <br>retired the old Makita yet=
, is that the batteries always seem to lose <br>capacity over time. &nbsp;T=
he 9V Makita is nickel-metal-hydride, and both the <br>OEM--which are too e=
xpensive IMO--and cheap, off-brand aftermarket ones <br>all lose charge whe=
n not used, and lose capacity after repeated <br>charging. &nbsp;I know Li-=
Ion is better, but a battery is a battery, and they <br>all will lose some =
capacity over time.<br><br>Any and all opinions, rants, etc. welcome.<br><b=
r>Bob<br>_______________________________________________<br><br>Shop-talk@a=
utox.team.net<br>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html<br>Suggested annua=
l donation &nbsp;$12.96<br>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive<br>Forums: =
http://www.team.net/forums<br>Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mai=
lman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]<br><br></font></body></html>
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From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 08:40:35 -0500

On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 11:02 AM, Bob Spidell <[email-masked]> wrote:
> Folks,
>
> I realize this is like bringing up 'best oil' or 'best tires' on a car list,
> but I'm in the market for a battery drill/driver/sander/etc. combo to
> something with all the 'goodies;' I'll need the usual driver/drill, but also
> need a portable sander (belt and/or disc), and at least the option for more
> attachments.
>
> 19.2V, etc.?

Pick the one that comes in the color you like.  I like red, so I have
Milwaukee[1].  Consider brushless for your most used tools, they're
lighter and more powerful, and the price differential is getting
smaller.  Careful buying kits, and make sure you get the version of
the kit you want.[2] Some kits are good deals, some aren't.
Drill/driver + something kits tend to be good values, as they're sold
on the drug dealer 'first one is free' model.  Others are more
expensive than buying the tool and batteries separately.  And once
you've got a collection of batteries, you don't need one for every
tool.

Modern Li-ion batteries and tools are far superior to Ni-Cad or NiMH
batteries and tools.  Li-ion batteries have lower self discharge, so
they stay charged better, and they have higher power densities, so the
batteries last longer.   They also have much lower internal
resistance, so tools can take power out of them much faster.  That
means the current crop of high-end 12V stuff is better than any 19.2
nicad tool, in nearly every respect: lighter, smaller, more powerful,
and usually cheaper.  The 18V stuff is amazing; my m18 fuel drill
drills holes faster than my corded drill, which is a nice drill that
I've never thought underpowered or slow.

A note on voltages:  the lithium cells used in the battery packs of
these tools have a nominal voltage of 4v, which is closer to 3.6 under
load.  The 12V tools use 3 cells in series, the 18v tools use 5.
(Dewalt's 20V stuff is 18V, the 20 is just marketing to make it sound
better.)  High capacity packs have two sets of cells in parallel.
Name brand batteries have a pretty good life, and seem to last two to
three years in professional use.

[1]The actual reason i have Milwaukee tools is that I used to work
with people who had them, and it meant I could borrow a tool I didn't
own, and use my batteries on it.

[2] I recently bought a drill/impact set.  The version with the
previous generation tools was still widely available, as was the early
version of the kit I got, which came with lower capacity batteries.
Both were more expensive...

-- 
David Scheidt
[email-masked]

[email-masked]

---

From: Arvid <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 10:04:49 -0500

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Having faced the same situation about a year ago. My beloved Panasonic 
battery packs died and I did not want to rebuild them yet again. I 
decided on the Milwaukee brushless series of tools.

I have the M12 brushless 12v drill and the brusheless impact driver plus 
the right angle drill [not brushless but it was a 'free' add-on to the 
12v drill purchase and I've used it more than I thought I would]. All 
are very light yet quite powerful. There are two different size battery 
packs. One is 2ah and is the same size as the handle of the drill. As 
such it is very small and light but the battery lasts considerably 
longer than 90% of the jobs I use it for. For 5% of the remaining I use 
the 4ah battery which is the 'standard' flat bottom battery which allows 
you to set the drill down using the bottom of the battery pack as a stand.

For the final 5% of the jobs I have the M18 brushless 18v drill, 
drill-driver, saws-all and portaband. They all take the 5ah battery and 
the drill has enough torque to easily break things [both organic and 
inorganic] if I do not pay attention to what I am doing.

I am not suggesting that Milwaukee is any better nor worse than the 
other brands. Just that I am happy with them.

I think Li-ion batteries is a given. As other have suggested, get one 
brand and share batteries. I bought several as 'complete kits' so I 
ended up with three chargers and multiple batteries. The rest were "tool 
only" purchases. For what ever reason I see a lot of new or very lightly 
used stuff on Craig's List in our area so the financial impact has not 
been as great as it could have been.

I would highly recommend brushless not mater the brand.

Given the improvements in Li-ion batteries and especially the brushless 
motors you may find that the 12v versions will do everything you need 
while being very light and easy to use.

Arvid

> ------ Original Message ------
>
> From: Bob Spidell
> To: Shop Talk
> Sent: April 9, 2016 at 2:12 PM
> Subject: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools
>
> Folks,
>
> list, but I'm in the market for a battery drill/driver/sander/etc. combo
> to replace my ancient--but still working--Makita 9V driver-drill.  I
> want something with all the 'goodies;' I'll need the usual driver/drill,
> but also need a portable sander (belt and/or disc), and at least the
> option for more attachments.
>
> Craftsman--hell, they might all come out of the same factory in China
> for all I know--but would like to see if there's a consensus on best
> overall.  Is more voltage always better, or is 14.4V better for some
> reason than 19.2V, etc.?    My main issue, and the reason I haven't
> retired the old Makita yet, is that the batteries always seem to lose
> capacity over time.  The 9V Makita is nickel-metal-hydride, and both the
> OEM--which are too expensive IMO--and cheap, off-brand aftermarket ones
> all lose charge when not used, and lose capacity after repeated
> charging.  I know Li-Ion is better, but a battery is a battery, and they
> all will lose some capacity over time.
>

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<html>
  <head>
    <meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
      http-equiv="Content-Type">
  </head>
  <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    Having faced the same situation about a year ago. My beloved
    Panasonic battery packs died and I did not want to rebuild them yet
    again. I decided on the Milwaukee brushless series of tools.<br>
    <br>
    I have the M12 brushless 12v drill and the brusheless impact driver
    plus the right angle drill [not brushless but it was a 'free' add-on
    to the 12v drill purchase and I've used it more than I thought I
    would]. All are very light yet quite powerful. There are two
    different size battery packs. One is 2ah and is the same size as the
    handle of the drill. As such it is very small and light but the
    battery lasts considerably longer than 90% of the jobs I use it for.
    For 5% of the remaining I use the 4ah battery which is the
    'standard' flat bottom battery which allows you to set the drill
    down using the bottom of the battery pack as a stand.<br>
    <br>
    For the final 5% of the jobs I have the M18 brushless 18v drill,
    drill-driver, saws-all and portaband. They all take the 5ah battery
    and the drill has enough torque to easily break things [both organic
    and inorganic] if I do not pay attention to what I am doing.<br>
    <br>
    I am not suggesting that Milwaukee is any better nor worse than the
    other brands. Just that I am happy with them.<br>
    <br>
    I think Li-ion batteries is a given. As other have suggested, get
    one brand and share batteries. I bought several as 'complete kits'
    so I ended up with three chargers and multiple batteries. The rest
    were "tool only" purchases. For what ever reason I see a lot of new
    or very lightly used stuff on Craig's List in our area so the
    financial impact has not been as great as it could have been.<br>
    <br>
    I would highly recommend brushless not mater the brand.<br>
    <br>
    Given the improvements in Li-ion batteries and especially the
    brushless motors you may find that the 12v versions will do
    everything you need while being very light and easy to use.<br>
    <br>
    Arvid<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:[email-masked]"
      type="cite"><font face="Helvetica">------ Original Message ------<br>
        <br>
        From: Bob Spidell<br>
        To: Shop Talk<br>
        Sent: April 9, 2016 at 2:12 PM<br>
        Subject: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools<br>
        <br>
        Folks,<br>
        <br>
        I realize this is like bringing up 'best oil' or 'best tires' on
        a car <br>
        list, but I'm in the market for a battery
        drill/driver/sander/etc. combo <br>
        to replace my ancient--but still working--Makita 9V
        driver-drill.  I <br>
        want something with all the 'goodies;' I'll need the usual
        driver/drill, <br>
        but also need a portable sander (belt and/or disc), and at least
        the <br>
        option for more attachments.<br>
        <br>
        I know I probably can't lose with DeWalt, Milwaukee, Makita or
        even <br>
        Craftsman--hell, they might all come out of the same factory in
        China <br>
        for all I know--but would like to see if there's a consensus on
        best <br>
        overall.  Is more voltage always better, or is 14.4V better for
        some <br>
        reason than 19.2V, etc.?    My main issue, and the reason I
        haven't <br>
        retired the old Makita yet, is that the batteries always seem to
        lose <br>
        capacity over time.  The 9V Makita is nickel-metal-hydride, and
        both the <br>
        OEM--which are too expensive IMO--and cheap, off-brand
        aftermarket ones <br>
        all lose charge when not used, and lose capacity after repeated
        <br>
        charging.  I know Li-Ion is better, but a battery is a battery,
        and they <br>
        all will lose some capacity over time.<br>
        <br>
        Any and all opinions, rants, etc. welcome.<br>
        <br>
        Bob<br>
        _______________________________________________</font><br>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
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From: steve hochschild <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 10:52:15 -0500

I am raising my hand to mention that I have given up on battery powered 
tools.  I have a huge collection of dead batteries, useless chargers, 
and drill carcasses that make me mad every time I look at them.  I 
finally realized that all I really wanted was one of those very small 
battery screwdrivers, under $20, and regular, line-powered drills, etc.

So feel free to save hundreds of dollars and for me, huge frustration, 
by buying an extension cord and a set of plug-in tools.

How many dead batteries and useless chargers have we all accumulated in 
our shops, anyway??  Just an alternative opinion, feel free to ignore...

Mr Grumpy

[email-masked]

---

From: Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 10:02:04 -0700

Thanks for all the tips and advice, folks.  Got enough info to move on.

Bob

On 4/9/2016 9:02 AM, Bob Spidell wrote:
> list, but I'm in the market for a battery drill/driver/sander/etc. 
> combo to replace my ancient--but still working--Makita 9V 
> driver-drill.  I want something with all the 'goodies;' I'll need the 
> usual driver/drill, but also need a portable sander (belt and/or 
> disc), and at least the option for more attachments.
>
> capacity over time.  The 9V Makita is nickel-metal-hydride, and both 
> the OEM--which are too expensive IMO--and cheap, off-brand aftermarket 
> ones all lose charge when not used, and lose capacity after repeated 
> charging.  I know Li-Ion is better, but a battery is a battery, and 
> they all will lose some capacity over time.
>

[email-masked]

---

From: Pat Horne <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 14:43:05 -0500

Dear Mr. Grumpy.....I like that!

One of the hobbiest mags did a survey & found that home use didn't need expensive, heavy drill/drivers & could get by with a 12v unit. If you don't use the tools for work or at least weekly, extension cords make a lot of sense. 

Peace,
Pat
(My grandkids refer to me as Grumpa Pat)  

Pat Horne 

On Apr 10, 2016, at 10:52 AM, steve hochschild <[email-masked]> wrote:

I am raising my hand to mention that I have given up on battery powered tools.  I have a huge collection of dead batteries, useless chargers, and drill carcasses that make me mad every time I look at them.  I finally realized that all I really wanted was one of those very small battery screwdrivers, under $20, and regular, line-powered drills, etc.

So feel free to save hundreds of dollars and for me, huge frustration, by buying an extension cord and a set of plug-in tools.

How many dead batteries and useless chargers have we all accumulated in our shops, anyway??  Just an alternative opinion, feel free to ignore...

Mr Grumpy

<snip>

[email-masked]

---

From: Jim Franklin <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 15:49:26 -0400

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On Apr 10, 2016, at 11:52 AM, steve hochschild =
<[email-masked]> wrote:

> How many dead batteries and useless chargers have we all accumulated =
in our shops, anyway??  Just an alternative opinion, feel free to =
ignore...

A valid concern, but I've had my B&D 14.4v drill for at least 20 years. =
Replaced the batteries once along with the motor, and the batteries are =
dead again, and the plastic housing is cracked and held together with =
safety wire. I's day that's a good lifetime.

Thanks for the timely thread, I'm also in the market.=20

jim=

--Apple-Mail=_97E2AE02-224F-4D6F-9153-EEAA65D16CCE
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	charset=us-ascii

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;"><br><div><div>On Apr 10, 2016, at 11:52 AM, steve =
hochschild &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: =
none; display: inline !important;">How many dead batteries and useless =
chargers have we all accumulated in our shops, anyway?? &nbsp;Just an =
alternative opinion, feel free to =
ignore...</span></blockquote></div><br><div>A valid concern, but I've =
had my B&amp;D 14.4v drill for at least 20 years. Replaced the batteries =
once along with the motor, and the batteries are dead again, and the =
plastic housing is cracked and held together with safety wire. I's day =
that's a good lifetime.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks for the timely =
thread, I'm also in the =
market.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>jim</div></body></html>=

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From: Paul Parkanzky <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 16:00:06 -0400

--===============0407941285372870072==

--94eb2c05d26cdf15ec053026df01

You may have given up too soon.  Have you tried modern Li-Ion tools?  My
experiences were like yours until the latest generation.  But now I
couldn't be happier after quite a long service life.

-Paul

On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 11:52 AM, steve hochschild <[email-masked]
> wrote:

> tools.  I have a huge collection of dead batteries, useless chargers, and
> drill carcasses that make me mad every time I look at them.  I finally
> realized that all I really wanted was one of those very small battery
> screwdrivers, under $20, and regular, line-powered drills, etc.
>
> So feel free to save hundreds of dollars and for me, huge frustration, by
> buying an extension cord and a set of plug-in tools.
>
>>> list,
>>> also
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
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<div dir=3D"ltr">You may have given up too soon.=C2=A0 Have you tried moder=
n Li-Ion tools?=C2=A0 My experiences were like yours until the latest gener=
ation.=C2=A0 But now I couldn&#39;t be happier after quite a long service l=
ife.<div><br></div><div>-Paul</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><di=
v class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 11:52 AM, steve hochschild =
<span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D=
"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pad=
ding-left:1ex">I am raising my hand to mention that I have given up on batt=
ery powered tools.=C2=A0 I have a huge collection of dead batteries, useles=
s chargers, and drill carcasses that make me mad every time I look at them.=
=C2=A0 I finally realized that all I really wanted was one of those very sm=
all battery screwdrivers, under $20, and regular, line-powered drills, etc.=
<br>
<br>
So feel free to save hundreds of dollars and for me, huge frustration, by b=
uying an extension cord and a set of plug-in tools.<br>
<br>
How many dead batteries and useless chargers have we all accumulated in our=
 shops, anyway??=C2=A0 Just an alternative opinion, feel free to ignore...<=
br>
<br>
Mr Grumpy<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
On 4/10/2016 8:40 AM, David Scheidt wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 11:02 AM, Bob Spidell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell=
@comcast.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Folks,<br>
<br>
I realize this is like bringing up &#39;best oil&#39; or &#39;best tires&#3=
9; on a car list,<br>
but I&#39;m in the market for a battery drill/driver/sander/etc. combo to<b=
r>
replace my ancient--but still working--Makita 9V driver-drill.=C2=A0 I want=
<br>
something with all the &#39;goodies;&#39; I&#39;ll need the usual driver/dr=
ill, but also<br>
need a portable sander (belt and/or disc), and at least the option for more=
<br>
attachments.<br>
<br>
I know I probably can&#39;t lose with DeWalt, Milwaukee, Makita or even<br>
Craftsman--hell, they might all come out of the same factory in China for<b=
r>
all I know--but would like to see if there&#39;s a consensus on best overal=
l.<br>
Is more voltage always better, or is 14.4V better for some reason than<br>
19.2V, etc.?<br>
</blockquote>
Pick the one that comes in the color you like.=C2=A0 I like red, so I have<=
br>
Milwaukee[1].=C2=A0 Consider brushless for your most used tools, they&#39;r=
e<br>
lighter and more powerful, and the price differential is getting<br>
smaller.=C2=A0 Careful buying kits, and make sure you get the version of<br=
the kit you want.[2] Some kits are good deals, some aren&#39;t.<br>
Drill/driver + something kits tend to be good values, as they&#39;re sold<b=
r>
on the drug dealer &#39;first one is free&#39; model.=C2=A0 Others are more=
<br>
expensive than buying the tool and batteries separately.=C2=A0 And once<br>
you&#39;ve got a collection of batteries, you don&#39;t need one for every<=
br>
tool.<br>
<br>
<br>
Modern Li-ion batteries and tools are far superior to Ni-Cad or NiMH<br>
batteries and tools.=C2=A0 Li-ion batteries have lower self discharge, so<b=
r>
they stay charged better, and they have higher power densities, so the<br>
batteries last longer.=C2=A0 =C2=A0They also have much lower internal<br>
resistance, so tools can take power out of them much faster.=C2=A0 That<br>
means the current crop of high-end 12V stuff is better than any 19.2<br>
nicad tool, in nearly every respect: lighter, smaller, more powerful,<br>
and usually cheaper.=C2=A0 The 18V stuff is amazing; my m18 fuel drill<br>
drills holes faster than my corded drill, which is a nice drill that<br>
I&#39;ve never thought underpowered or slow.<br>
<br>
A note on voltages:=C2=A0 the lithium cells used in the battery packs of<br=
these tools have a nominal voltage of 4v, which is closer to 3.6 under<br>
load.=C2=A0 The 12V tools use 3 cells in series, the 18v tools use 5.<br>
(Dewalt&#39;s 20V stuff is 18V, the 20 is just marketing to make it sound<b=
r>
better.)=C2=A0 High capacity packs have two sets of cells in parallel.<br>
Name brand batteries have a pretty good life, and seem to last two to<br>
three years in professional use.<br>
<br>
<br>
[1]The actual reason i have Milwaukee tools is that I used to work<br>
with people who had them, and it meant I could borrow a tool I didn&#39;t<b=
r>
own, and use my batteries on it.<br>
<br>
[2] I recently bought a drill/impact set.=C2=A0 The version with the<br>
previous generation tools was still widely available, as was the early<br>
version of the kit I got, which came with lower capacity batteries.<br>
Both were more expensive...<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div></div><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">
_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Shop-talk@aut=
ox.team.net</a><br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D=
"_blank">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>
alk/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.=
team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

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[email-masked]

--===============0407941285372870072==--

---

From: John Miller <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 14:36:22 -0700

> battery screwdrivers, under $20, and regular, line-powered drills, etc.

I agree that it's unfortunate that the batteries eventually die, and 
there can be a DRAMATIC difference in battery life between good ones and 
cheap replacements.

My first 'real' cordless tool was a 9.6V Makita drill, purchased at the 
recently-opened Price Club sometime back in the Reagan Administration I 
think, and on two battery packs it lasted well into its obsolescence 
though for power it was not remotely competitive with a decent corded 
drill.

 From there I picked up a used 14V Milwaukee nicad drill off eBay for 
almost nothing (it was SERIOUSLY ugly), and a couple new battery packs, 
and that thing did three years of seriously hard work until I dropped it 
from the top of a 15 foot ladder onto a concrete slab.

At that point my brother-in-law gave me his 14V DeWalt set, and I bought 
another, and ended up with two drills and five batteries total. 
Destroyed one of the drills and one of the batteries IIRC in various 
mishaps over the subsequent decade, still have three batteries with 
useful capacity.

In the meantime I'd picked up an 18V Milwaukee sawzall with two 
batteries, which while nowhere near as powerful as the corded one did 
tons of useful work though both the original batteries petered out 
within about five years.   Tried a couple cheap no-name  eBay 
replacements and they lasted about six months each.

Nicads like to be cycled and the tools used more often seem to get 
better battery life.

I've recently picked up a 20V DeWalt Li-Ion drill and the 'shorty' 
DeWalt recip saw that has the motor bent down at a 45-degree angle. 
Both are very powerful, as well as lighter (why I never bought an 18V 
nicad drill, the 14.4V was heavy enough) and the biggest problem I have 
with either is that the speed control on the recip saw trigger is not 
progressive enough.  Currently have 2 2amp batteries and 1 5amp and it's 
good to be able to cycle all the batteries on all the tools though the 
2amp batteries don't last very long when you're chopping up tree 
branches for the recycling bin.

Too early in the ownership cycle to say much about battery life on those.

John.

[email-masked]

---

From: Brian Kemp <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 18:38:11 -0700

Don't forget to pay attention to the capacity of the battery packs. The 
entry level Makita comes with a 1AH battery.  For a little more, you can 
get the next step with a 3AH battery.  Also watch for sales and "special 
buys" on replacement batteries.  After I fried a battery pack using a 
cordless drill to mix thinset, I found the Orange box had 3AH batteries 
at $99 for a two pack - the same price as a single battery in the 
regular package.  I got lucky that week if finding one still in the 
store - had to hunt as it was in the wrong place behind something else.  
The worker said the contractors had bought them all up in the first few 
days.

I once bought a replacement Dewalt 12V drill at Costco just for the two 
battery packs, only to find out they were less capacity and ran out real 
quick.  Bummer there.

I thought Rigid cordless tools had lifetime battery replacement if you 
registered them.  That sounds like a good deal if there isn't fine print 
to get the replacement.

Brian

On 4/9/2016 9:02 AM, Bob Spidell wrote:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>
>

[email-masked]

---

From: Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 20:17:42 -0700

Wow ... this topic is right up there with politics and proving more 
interesting and amusing than expected.  What a classy list (JK).

One aspect that isn't mentioned--and it's 'philosophical' more than 
technical (well, maybe not)--is disposal of the batteries.  I only have 
a couple years of chemistry but know enough to know that all battery 
chemistries are bad news for the environment, on both ends (I'm no 
greenie; I own two old British sports cars).  In fact, as I near the end 
of my warranty--I'm 62 soon-to-be 63--I find myself more concerned about 
not leaving too big a mess behind; so that will enter into my buying 
decision.  The vote for tethered use is compelling; I've thought that 
way at times myself.  If you don't have a charged battery on hand, it's 
quicker to untangle the extension cord anyway, if power is available.

[email-masked]

---

From: "Tim ." <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:09:59 +0000

Not to hijack but thought I'd chime in on the battery disposal part of this conversation.....

I believe that most people are not aware that batteriesplus will recycle your flat batteries. Last time I called about it the guy said they charge $1 a pound. Well, I just drop them off (right outside their front door) before they open anyway so don't have to worry about putting any money out. (I am not the only one who drops batteries off when they are not open so I don't feel bad about doing this.)

carry on
tim

________________________________________
From: Shop-talk <[email-masked]> on behalf of Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 10:17 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools

[email-masked]

[email-masked]

---

From: Jeff Scarbrough <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 07:37:50 -0400

"I realize this is like bringing up 'best oil' or 'best tires' on a car list..:"

For what it's worth, I bought a set of Ryobi tools with lithium
batteries at the local outlet store about eight years ago.  One of the
batteries has become somewhat weak*, but will still get small jobs
done.   Ryobi is a brand that is almost universally reviled on the GJ
and other forms where such things are discussed, but I couldn't have
bought a battery of any other brand for the price I paid for four
tools and two batteries, and they've served me just fine for household
use.

I think the consensus here is go lithium, and go single-brand so you
can stick with one battery.  That makes sense to me.

Jeff Scarbrough
Corrosion Acres, Ga.

* The weak battery is the one that never showed anything but dead on
the charge indicator - but it always had a charge.  Probably why it
was at the outlet store in the first place.
_______________________________________________

[email-masked]

---

From: "John T. Blair" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 08:24:37 -0400

--===============1148868823851877010==
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--=====================_2188943==.ALT

At 07:09 AM 4/11/2016, Tim wrote:

 >I believe that most people are not aware that batteriesplus will 
recycle your flat
 >batteries. Last time I called about it the guy said they charge $1 
a pound. Well, I
 >just drop them off (right outside their front door) before they 
open anyway so
 >don't have to worry about putting any money out. (I am not the only one who
 >drops batteries off when they are not open so I don't feel bad 
about doing this.)

Also check you local Libruaries.  Our main city libruary takes small 
batteries, not
car type, and I don't know about the tool batteries (LI-ion).  But 
it's the only place
I could find that would take my alkaline and Ni Cads.

John

>http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]

John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  [email-masked]
Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229

           48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
      75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                        65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    www.team.net/www/morgan
Bricklin:  www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

 From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
      e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
      In God We Trust
      Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for
                   oneself; freedom  from  control  or  restriction

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<html>
<body>
<font size=3>At 07:09 AM 4/11/2016, Tim wrote:<br><br>
&gt;I believe that most people are not aware that batteriesplus will
recycle your flat<br>
&gt;batteries. Last time I called about it the guy said they charge $1 a
pound. Well, I <br>
&gt;just drop them off (right outside their front door) before they open
anyway so <br>
&gt;don't have to worry about putting any money out. (I am not the only
one who <br>
&gt;drops batteries off when they are not open so I don't feel bad about
doing this.)<br><br>
Also check you local Libruaries.&nbsp; Our main city libruary takes small
batteries, not<br>
car type, and I don't know about the tool batteries (LI-ion).&nbsp; But
it's the only place <br>
I could find that would take my alkaline and Ni Cads.<br><br>
John<br><br>
<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">carry on<br>
tim<br><br>
________________________________________<br>
From: Shop-talk &lt;[email-masked]&gt; on behalf of Bob
Spidell &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 10:17 PM<br>
To: [email-masked]<br>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools<br><br>
Wow ... this topic is right up there with politics and proving more<br>
interesting and amusing than expected.&nbsp; What a classy list
(JK).<br><br>
One aspect that isn't mentioned--and it's 'philosophical' more than<br>
technical (well, maybe not)--is disposal of the batteries.&nbsp; I only
have<br>
a couple years of chemistry but know enough to know that all battery<br>
chemistries are bad news for the environment, on both ends (I'm no<br>
greenie; I own two old British sports cars).&nbsp; In fact, as I near the
end<br>
of my warranty--I'm 62 soon-to-be 63--I find myself more concerned
about<br>
not leaving too big a mess behind; so that will enter into my buying<br>
decision.&nbsp; The vote for tethered use is compelling; I've thought
that<br>
way at times myself.&nbsp; If you don't have a charged battery on hand,
it's<br>
quicker to untangle the extension cord anyway, if power is
available.<br><br>
<br><br>
On 4/10/2016 2:36 PM, John Miller wrote:<br>
&gt; On 4/10/2016 8:52 AM, steve hochschild wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; I am raising my hand to mention that I have given up on battery
powered<br>
&gt;&gt; tools.&nbsp; I have a huge collection of dead batteries, useless
chargers,<br>
&gt;&gt; and drill carcasses that make me mad every time I look at them.
I<br>
&gt;&gt; finally realized that all I really wanted was one of those very
small<br>
&gt;&gt; battery screwdrivers, under $20, and regular, line-powered
drills, etc.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br><br>
_______________________________________________<br><br>
[email-masked]<br>
Donate:
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<br>
<div>John T. Blair&nbsp; WA4OHZ&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; email:&nbsp;
[email-masked]</div>
<div>Va. Beach,
Va&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Phone:&nbsp; (757) 495-8229</div>
<br>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 48
TR1800&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 48 #4 Midget&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 65 Morgan 4/4
Series V (B1106)</div>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
77 Spitfire&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 71 Saab Sonett III</div>
<div>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
65 Rambler Classic</div>
<br>
<div>Morgan:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<a href="http://www.team.net/www/morgan" EUDORA=AUTOURL>
www.team.net/www/morgan</a></div>
<div>Bricklin:&nbsp;
<a href="http://www.bricklin.org/" EUDORA=AUTOURL>www.bricklin.org</a>
</div>
<br>
<div>If you can read
this&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
- Thank a teacher!</div>
<div>If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!</div>
<br>
<div> From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:</div>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; e pluribus Unum, &quot;from many,
one.&quot;</div>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; In God We Trust</div>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Liberty - the&nbsp; power&nbsp; of&nbsp;
choosing,&nbsp; thinking,&nbsp; and&nbsp; acting&nbsp; for&nbsp; </div>
<div>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
oneself; freedom&nbsp; from&nbsp; control&nbsp; or&nbsp;
restriction&nbsp; </div>
<br>
<br>
</html>

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[email-masked]

--===============1148868823851877010==--

---

From: Pat Horne <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 08:12:46 -0500

--===============4650869834382295919==
 boundary=Apple-Mail-8609D186-15DE-479F-BA59-D765F31F8F33
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	charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Around here Lowes & Home Depot have drop boxes for batteries & fluorescent b=
ulbs.=20

Pat Horne=20

On Apr 11, 2016, at 7:24 AM, John T. Blair <[email-masked]> wrote:

At 07:09 AM 4/11/2016, Tim wrote:

>I believe that most people are not aware that batteriesplus will recycle yo=
ur flat
>batteries. Last time I called about it the guy said they charge $1 a pound.=
 Well, I=20
>just drop them off (right outside their front door) before they open anyway=
 so=20
>don't have to worry about putting any money out. (I am not the only one who=
=20
>drops batteries off when they are not open so I don't feel bad about doing t=
his.)

Also check you local Libruaries.  Our main city libruary takes small batteri=
es, not
car type, and I don't know about the tool batteries (LI-ion).  But it's the o=
nly place=20
I could find that would take my alkaline and Ni Cads.

John

>=20
> From: Shop-talk <[email-masked]> on behalf of Bob Spidel=
l <[email-masked]>
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> >> I am raising my hand to mention that I have given up on battery powered=

> >> battery screwdrivers, under $20, and regular, line-powered drills, etc.=

>=20
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tims_d=
[email-masked]=20
>=20
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jblair=
[email-masked]

	Virus-free. www.avast.com

=46rom Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
     e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
     In God We Trust
     Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for=20
                  oneself; freedom  from  control  or  restriction=20

[email-masked]
[email-masked]

--Apple-Mail-8609D186-15DE-479F-BA59-D765F31F8F33
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Around here Lowes &amp; Home Depot have drop boxes for batteries &amp; fluorescent bulbs.&nbsp;<br><br>Pat Horne&nbsp;<div>We support Caldwell County Habitat for Humanity</div><div><br></div></div><div><br>On Apr 11, 2016, at 7:24 AM, John T. Blair &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><div>

<font size="3">At 07:09 AM 4/11/2016, Tim wrote:<br><br>
</font><blockquote type="cite" class="cite" cite=""><font size="3">carry on<br>
From: Shop-talk &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; on behalf of Bob
Spidell &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
To: <a href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
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---

From: RandE <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 08:13:39 -0500

--===============8885093246884307905==

--001a113e018e4c2e5b05303551eb

Our local Lowes/HomeDepot has a box inside the front door where they take
batteries for recycling.

Randy

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 7:24 AM, John T. Blair <[email-masked]> wrote:

> >I believe that most people are not aware that batteriesplus will recycle
> your flat
> >batteries. Last time I called about it the guy said they charge $1 a
> pound. Well, I
> >just drop them off (right outside their front door) before they open
> anyway so
> >drops batteries off when they are not open so I don't feel bad about
> doing this.)
>
> car type, and I don't know about the tool batteries (LI-ion).  But it's
> the only place
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>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Our local Lowes/HomeDepot has a box inside the front door =
where they take batteries for recycling.<div><br></div><div>Randy</div><div=
><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 7:24 AM, John T. Blair <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt=
;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<font size=3D"3">At 07:09 AM 4/11/2016, Tim wrote:<br><br>
&gt;I believe that most people are not aware that batteriesplus will
recycle your flat<br>
&gt;batteries. Last time I called about it the guy said they charge $1 a
pound. Well, I <br>
&gt;just drop them off (right outside their front door) before they open
anyway so <br>
&gt;don&#39;t have to worry about putting any money out. (I am not the only
one who <br>
&gt;drops batteries off when they are not open so I don&#39;t feel bad abou=
t
doing this.)<br><br>
Also check you local Libruaries.=C2=A0 Our main city libruary takes small
batteries, not<br>
car type, and I don&#39;t know about the tool batteries (LI-ion).=C2=A0 But
it&#39;s the only place <br>
I could find that would take my alkaline and Ni Cads.<br><br>
John<br><br>
<br><br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">carry on<br>
tim<br><br>
________________________________________<br>
From: Shop-talk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" tar=
get=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; on behalf of Bob
Spidell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">bspid=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 10:17 PM<br>
To: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">shop-talk=
@autox.team.net</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools<br><br>
Wow ... this topic is right up there with politics and proving more<br>
interesting and amusing than expected.=C2=A0 What a classy list
(JK).<br><br>
One aspect that isn&#39;t mentioned--and it&#39;s &#39;philosophical&#39; m=
ore than<br>
technical (well, maybe not)--is disposal of the batteries.=C2=A0 I only
have<br>
a couple years of chemistry but know enough to know that all battery<br>
chemistries are bad news for the environment, on both ends (I&#39;m no<br>
greenie; I own two old British sports cars).=C2=A0 In fact, as I near the
end<br>
of my warranty--I&#39;m 62 soon-to-be 63--I find myself more concerned
about<br>
not leaving too big a mess behind; so that will enter into my buying<br>
decision.=C2=A0 The vote for tethered use is compelling; I&#39;ve thought
that<br>
way at times myself.=C2=A0 If you don&#39;t have a charged battery on hand,
it&#39;s<br>
quicker to untangle the extension cord anyway, if power is
available.<br><br>
<br><br>
On 4/10/2016 2:36 PM, John Miller wrote:<br>
&gt; On 4/10/2016 8:52 AM, steve hochschild wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; I am raising my hand to mention that I have given up on battery
powered<br>
&gt;&gt; tools.=C2=A0 I have a huge collection of dead batteries, useless
chargers,<br>
&gt;&gt; and drill carcasses that make me mad every time I look at them.
I<br>
&gt;&gt; finally realized that all I really wanted was one of those very
small<br>
&gt;&gt; battery screwdrivers, under $20, and regular, line-powered
drills, etc.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br><br>
_______________________________________________<br><br>
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om</a>
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</blockquote></font><br>
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nt-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;line-height:18px">Virus-free. <a href=
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<br>
<div>John T. Blair=C2=A0 WA4OHZ=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 email:=C2=A0
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]<=
/a></div>
<div>Va. Beach,
Va=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
Phone:=C2=A0 <a href=3D"tel:%28757%29%20495-8229" value=3D"+17574958229" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">(757) 495-8229</a></div>
<br>
<div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 48
TR1800=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 48 #4 Midget=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 65 Morgan 4/4
Series V (B1106)</div>
<div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
77 Spitfire=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 71 Saab Sonett III</div>
<div>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
65 Rambler Classic</div>
<br>
<div>Morgan:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
<a href=3D"http://www.team.net/www/morgan" target=3D"_blank">
www.team.net/www/morgan</a></div>
<div>Bricklin:=C2=A0
<a href=3D"http://www.bricklin.org/" target=3D"_blank">www.bricklin.org</a>
</div>
<br>
<div>If you can read
this=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0
- Thank a teacher!</div>
<div>If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!</div>
<br>
<div> From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:</div>
<div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 e pluribus Unum, &quot;from many,
one.&quot;</div>
<div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 In God We Trust</div>
<div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Liberty - the=C2=A0 power=C2=A0 of=C2=A0
choosing,=C2=A0 thinking,=C2=A0 and=C2=A0 acting=C2=A0 for=C2=A0 </div>
<div>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
oneself; freedom=C2=A0 from=C2=A0 control=C2=A0 or=C2=A0
restriction=C2=A0 </div>
<br>
<br>

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<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

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[email-masked]

--===============8885093246884307905==--

---

From: Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 14:46:34 +0000 (UTC)

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I know a lot of places take batteries, fluorescent bulbs, etc. for recycling, but I have a sneaking suspicion--backed up by some investigative reporting I've seen--that a lot of the 'recycled' stuff ends up in rivers in China (presumably after any valuable components and metals are removed). 

You might ask: "Why do you care? It's China!" but I see the Earth as an extended neighborhood--like I said, I'm no greenie, but as a (nominal*) engineer I hate waste--and all the filth deposited in third world countries and our own are like having a neighbor with an overgrown lawn and garden and garbage on display. Just not cool (and not good for property values, either). 

(*) a lot of people in my profession are called software 'engineers,' but since I have no professional certification I think 'programmer' is more appropriate (but I hate 'coder;' it belittles the craft) 

----- Original Message -----

Our local Lowes/HomeDepot has a box inside the front door where they take batteries for recycling. 

Randy 

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 7:24 AM, John T. Blair < [email-masked] > wrote: 

At 07:09 AM 4/11/2016, Tim wrote: 

>I believe that most people are not aware that batteriesplus will recycle your flat 
>batteries. Last time I called about it the guy said they charge $1 a pound. Well, I 
>just drop them off (right outside their front door) before they open anyway so 
>drops batteries off when they are not open so I don't feel bad about doing this.) 

Also check you local Libruaries. Our main city libruary takes small batteries, not 
car type, and I don't know about the tool batteries (LI-ion). But it's the only place 
I could find that would take my alkaline and Ni Cads. 

John 

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<html><body><div style=3D"font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #0000=
00"><div>I know a lot of places take batteries, fluorescent bulbs, etc. for=
 recycling, but I have a sneaking suspicion--backed up by some investigativ=
e reporting I've seen--that a lot of the 'recycled' stuff ends up in rivers=
 in China (presumably after any valuable components and metals are removed)=
.<br></div><div><br></div><div>You might ask: "Why do you care?&nbsp; It's =
China!"&nbsp; but I see the Earth as an extended neighborhood--like I said,=
 I'm no greenie, but as a (nominal*) engineer I hate waste--and all the fil=
th deposited in third world countries and our own are like having a neighbo=
r with an overgrown lawn and garden and garbage on display.&nbsp; Just not =
cool (and not good for property values, either).<br></div><div><br></div><d=
iv><br></div><div>(*) a lot of people in my profession are called software =
'engineers,' but since I have no professional certification I think 'progra=
mmer' is more appropriate (but I hate 'coder;' it belittles the craft)<br><=
/div><div><br></div><hr id=3D"zwchr"><div style=3D"color:#000;font-weight:n=
ormal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sa=
ns-serif;font-size:12pt;"><br><div><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Our local Low=
es/HomeDepot has a box inside the front door where they take batteries for =
recycling.<div><br></div><div>Randy</div><div><br></div></div><div class=3D=
"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 7:24 A=
M, John T. Blair <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc soli=
d;padding-left:1ex">
<br><div>
<span data-mce-style=3D"font-size: medium;" size=3D"3">At 07:09 AM 4/11/201=
6, Tim wrote:<br><div><br></div>
&gt;I believe that most people are not aware that batteriesplus will
recycle your flat<br>
&gt;batteries. Last time I called about it the guy said they charge $1 a
pound. Well, I <br>
&gt;just drop them off (right outside their front door) before they open
anyway so <br>
&gt;don't have to worry about putting any money out. (I am not the only
one who <br>
&gt;drops batteries off when they are not open so I don't feel bad about
doing this.)<br><div><br></div>
Also check you local Libruaries.&nbsp; Our main city libruary takes small
batteries, not<br>
car type, and I don't know about the tool batteries (LI-ion).&nbsp; But
it's the only place <br>
I could find that would take my alkaline and Ni Cads.<br><div><br></div>
John<br><div><br></div>
</span></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></body></html>
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[email-masked]

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