Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Fuel Injector Cleaners

From: John Innis <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 13:44:20 -0500

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I use Sea Foam, added to the fuel.  It seems to do the job and costs a lot
less than $150!  I say it seems to do the job because I have never really
had a problem with dirty or clogged injectors.  I know that sea foam does a
good job of cleaning clogged jets in carbs and it removes carbon deposits
form the head and valves pretty good. Those things I have has issues with
and you can see the results.

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 10:14 AM, John T. Blair <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Hey gang,
>
> I went to get my car, a '06 Scion xB /w 54,000 mi, state inspected on
> Sat.  When it was done, they suggested that I have the fuel injectors
> "cleaned".
> Only $150!
>
> My question to the group, is do you all have this done?  All I've seen on
> shows like 60 min, is that the shops were telling people to have it done,
> and
> then charging the customer, but not doing the work.
>
> Are any of the in the bottle cleaners any good?
>
> Is this a good as the "shop cleaning"?  I assume that they don't take the
> injectors off the engine, so really all they're doing is pumping a chemical
> through the system.  Maybe a little better than mixing with the fuel and
> running it through the system.
>
> If you recommend a cleaner in the bottle, which ones and how often?
>
> Or is all this really snake oil?
>
> TIA
>
> John
>
> John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  [email-masked]
> Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229
>
>           48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
>      75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
>                        65 Rambler Classic
>
> Morgan:    www.team.net/www/morgan
> Bricklin:  www.bricklin.org
>
> If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
> If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!
>
> From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
>      e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
>      In God We Trust
>      Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for
>                   oneself; freedom  from  control  or  restriction
>
>
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr">I use Sea Foam, added to the fuel.=C2=A0 It seems to do th=
e job and costs a lot less than $150!=C2=A0 I say it seems to do the job be=
cause I have never really had a problem with dirty or clogged injectors.=C2=
=A0 I know that sea foam does a good job of cleaning clogged jets in carbs =
and it removes carbon deposits form the head and valves pretty good. Those =
things I have has issues with and you can see the results. =C2=A0 <br></div=
><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 11, =
2016 at 10:14 AM, John T. Blair <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jbl=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:=
<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-lef=
t:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hey gang,<br>
<br>
I went to get my car, a &#39;06 Scion xB /w 54,000 mi, state inspected on S=
at.=C2=A0 When it was done, they suggested that I have the fuel injectors &=
quot;cleaned&quot;.<br>
Only $150!<br>
<br>
My question to the group, is do you all have this done?=C2=A0 All I&#39;ve =
seen on<br>
shows like 60 min, is that the shops were telling people to have it done, a=
nd<br>
then charging the customer, but not doing the work.<br>
<br>
Are any of the in the bottle cleaners any good?<br>
<br>
Is this a good as the &quot;shop cleaning&quot;?=C2=A0 I assume that they d=
on&#39;t take the injectors off the engine, so really all they&#39;re doing=
 is pumping a chemical through the system.=C2=A0 Maybe a little better than=
 mixing with the fuel and<br>
running it through the system.<br>
<br>
If you recommend a cleaner in the bottle, which ones and how often?<br>
<br>
Or is all this really snake oil?<br>
<br>
TIA<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
John T. Blair=C2=A0 WA4OHZ=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0email:=C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailt=
o:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br>
Va. Beach, Va=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 Phone:=C2=A0 <a href=3D"tel:%28757%29%20495-8229" value=3D"+17574958229" t=
arget=3D"_blank">(757) 495-8229</a><br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 48 TR1800=C2=A0 =C2=A0 48 #4 Midget=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A075 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)=C2=A0 =C2=A0 77 Spitfire=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 71 Saab Sonett III<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A065 Rambler Classic<br>
<br>
Morgan:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/www/morgan" rel=3D"nore=
ferrer" target=3D"_blank">www.team.net/www/morgan</a><br>
Bricklin:=C2=A0 <a href=3D"http://www.bricklin.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" targ=
et=3D"_blank">www.bricklin.org</a><br>
<br>
If you can read this=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0- Thank=
 a teacher!<br>
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!<br>
<br>
>From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0e pluribus Unum, &quot;from many, one.&quot;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0In God We Trust<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Liberty - the=C2=A0 power=C2=A0 of=C2=A0 choosing,=C2=
=A0 thinking,=C2=A0 and=C2=A0 acting=C2=A0 for<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 oneself; fre=
edom=C2=A0 from=C2=A0 control=C2=A0 or=C2=A0 restriction<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div class=3D"gmail_sig=
nature">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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From: Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 19:11:47 +0000 (UTC)

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Sounds like snake oil to me. If your car is running good and MPG hasn't diminished you don't need it. In the early days of FI injectors sometimes got gunked-up, but all fuels are now required to have at least the minimal amount of injector cleaner. My '08 Mustang has nearly 110,000 miles, and I've never put any crap in the thank besides fuel and, in fact, the owner's manual says do it and you might lose your warranty (long-expired now anyway). 

Hey gang, 

My question to the group, is do you all have this done? All I've seen on 
shows like 60 min, is that the shops were telling people to have it done, and 
then charging the customer, but not doing the work. 

Is this a good as the "shop cleaning"? I assume that they don't take 
the injectors off the engine, so really all they're doing is pumping 
a chemical through the system. Maybe a little better than mixing 
with the fuel and 
running it through the system. 

TIA 

John 

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<html><body><div style=3D"font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #0000=
00"><div aria-label=3D"Compose body">Sounds like snake oil to me.&nbsp; If =
your car is running good and MPG hasn't diminished you don't need it.&nbsp;=
 In the early days of FI injectors sometimes got gunked-up, but all fuels a=
re now required to have at least the minimal amount of injector cleaner.&nb=
sp; My '08 Mustang has nearly 110,000 miles, and I've never put any crap in=
 the thank besides fuel and, in fact, the owner's manual says do it and you=
 might lose your warranty (long-expired now anyway).<br></div><div aria-lab=
el=3D"Compose body"><br></div><div aria-label=3D"Compose body"><br></div><d=
iv><br></div><div style=3D"color:#000;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;=
text-decoration:none;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;=
" data-mce-style=3D"color: #000; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; t=
ext-decoration: none; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 1=
2pt;"><br><div><br></div>Hey gang,<br><div><br></div>I went to get my car, =
a '06 Scion xB /w 54,000 mi, state inspected on <br>Sat. &nbsp;When it was =
done, they suggested that I have the fuel injectors <br>"cleaned".<br>Only =
$150!<br><div><br></div>My question to the group, is do you all have this d=
one? &nbsp;All I've seen on<br>shows like 60 min, is that the shops were te=
lling people to have it done, and<br>then charging the customer, but not do=
ing the work.<br><div><br></div>Are any of the in the bottle cleaners any g=
ood?<br><div><br></div>Is this a good as the "shop cleaning"? &nbsp;I assum=
e that they don't take <br>the injectors off the engine, so really all they=
're doing is pumping <br>a chemical through the system. &nbsp;Maybe a littl=
e better than mixing <br>with the fuel and<br>running it through the system=
.<br><div><br></div>If you recommend a cleaner in the bottle, which ones an=
d how often?<br><div><br></div>Or is all this really snake oil?<br><div><br=
></div>TIA<br><div><br></div>John<br><div><br></div>John T. Blair &nbsp;WA4=
OHZ &nbsp; &nbsp; email: &nbsp;[email-masked]<br>Va. Beach, Va &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Phone: &nbsp;(757) 49=
5-8229<br><br><div><br></div></div><div><br></div></div></body></html>
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[email-masked]

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---

From: PJ McGarvey <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 20:45:27 +0000

first question would be why they recommended it.  Sounds like a bit of an upsell.

Never had the in-car procedure done, but I have sent off sets to Marren Injection to have them done, and never got back a set that DIDn't need a bit of cleaning. But at least they do a full cleaning, blueprinting, etc. so you know what you're getting back. Those cars were turbo'd or tracked so were cases where a lazy injector could cost you an engine or a cylinder. 

I'd say if you aren't seeing issues, drivability or mpg related, and don't do any track or performance driving (I know it's an xB) then save the money.  

________________________________________
From: Shop-talk <[email-masked]> on behalf of John T. Blair <[email-masked]>
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 11:14 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [Shop-talk] Fuel Injector Cleaners

Hey gang,

TIA

John

---

[email-masked]

[email-masked]

---

From: "John T. Blair" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 17:19:12 -0400

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Thanks to all those that answered.

Michael asked, "did you ask them what in the readings suggested the need?"

No I didn't ask.  Didn't think of it.

And no, I haven't noticed any missing, no check engine light, and no 
error codes
come up on my reader.

I think they were just looking at either the roughly 60K miles of the 
10 yrs of age.

This isn't the first time I've had a shop suggest having the 
injectors cleaned, but
no one as actually given me an error code, or a real reason, other 
than "it should
be done."

Last time someone said that to me I put a can of Sea Foam in like John
suggested.  I've used that and couple of other products and never had 
a problem.
But I don't use any product regularly.  I guess I probably should as 
a $5-$10 can
of something 1 or 2 times a year is cheap insurance and definately cheaper than
$150!

PJ said, "but I have sent off sets to Marren Injection to have them 
done,".  I've
heard of that before, but that is a lot more than $150.  Don't know 
if we still do
but there was a place in town that did the off vechile cleaning for 
the deisel trucks.

Thanks again for all the info.

John

---

--=====================_34428094==.ALT

<html>
<body>
<font size=3>Thanks to all those that answered.<br><br>
Michael asked, &quot;did you ask them what in the readings suggested the
need?&quot;<br><br>
No I didn't ask.&nbsp; Didn't think of it.&nbsp; <br><br>
And no, I haven't noticed any missing, no check engine light, and no
error codes<br>
come up on my reader. <br><br>
I think they were just looking at either the roughly 60K miles of the 10
yrs of age.<br><br>
This isn't the first time I've had a shop suggest having the injectors
cleaned, but<br>
no one as actually given me an error code, or a real reason, other than
&quot;it should<br>
be done.&quot;<br><br>
Last time someone said that to me I put a can of Sea Foam in like John
<br>
suggested.&nbsp; I've used that and couple of other products and never
had a problem.<br>
But I don't use any product regularly.&nbsp; I guess I probably should as
a $5-$10 can<br>
of something 1 or 2 times a year is cheap insurance and definately
cheaper than<br>
$150!<br><br>
PJ said, &quot;but I have sent off sets to Marren Injection to have them
done,&quot;.&nbsp; I've<br>
heard of that before, but that is a lot more than $150.&nbsp; Don't know
if we still do<br>
but there was a place in town that did the off vechile cleaning for the
deisel trucks.<br><br>
Thanks again for all the info.<br><br>
John<br><br>
<br><br>
</font><br />
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<br>
<div>John T. Blair&nbsp; WA4OHZ&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; email:&nbsp;
[email-masked]</div>
<div>Va. Beach,
Va&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Phone:&nbsp; (757) 495-8229</div>
<br>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 48
TR1800&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 48 #4 Midget&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 65 Morgan 4/4
Series V (B1106)</div>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
77 Spitfire&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 71 Saab Sonett III</div>
<div>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
65 Rambler Classic</div>
<br>
<div>Morgan:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<a href="http://www.team.net/www/morgan" EUDORA=AUTOURL>
www.team.net/www/morgan</a></div>
<div>Bricklin:&nbsp;
<a href="http://www.bricklin.org/" EUDORA=AUTOURL>www.bricklin.org</a>
</div>
<br>
<div>If you can read
this&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
- Thank a teacher!</div>
<div>If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!</div>
<br>
<div> From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:</div>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; e pluribus Unum, &quot;from many,
one.&quot;</div>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; In God We Trust</div>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Liberty - the&nbsp; power&nbsp; of&nbsp;
choosing,&nbsp; thinking,&nbsp; and&nbsp; acting&nbsp; for&nbsp; </div>
<div>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
oneself; freedom&nbsp; from&nbsp; control&nbsp; or&nbsp;
restriction&nbsp; </div>
<br>
<br>
</html>

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[email-masked]

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---

From: John Miller <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 16:26:28 -0700

>     I went to get my car, a '06 Scion xB /w 54,000 mi, state inspected
>     on Sat.  When it was done, they suggested that I have the fuel
>     injectors "cleaned".
>     Only $150!

Why?

Is it idling unevenly?

Throwing codes saying one or more cylinders has maxed out its fuel trim?

If not, just buy 'Top Tier' gas and forget it.

John.

[email-masked]

---

From: "Eric J Russell" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 20:41:57 -0400

> they suggested that I have the fuel injectors "cleaned".

I agree with the advice to not bother. If the car is sunning well, passes 
emissions and is driven regularly there should be no need for such 
treatment.

If there is a running issue I advise removing the injectors and sending them 
out for service. They can be cleaned in an ultrasonic bath and have solvents 
flowed threw them to restore neglected/gummed up injectors. I've used Cruzin 
Performance and OK Injectors when I brought some neglected Alfa's back to 
life. They test before & after.

Eric Russell
Mebane, NC 

[email-masked]

---

From: Jack Brooks <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 22:01:25 -0700

John,

Is this a trusted shop that you regularly do business with?  It sounds like
an upsell to me. 

I buy the Techron injector cleaner at Costco (6 pack) when it's on sale and
put one bottle in every car during the summer and found that to be
sufficient that I don't think I've ever had an injector issue.  Seafoam,
Marvel Mystery Oil are two that I've heard people like too.  I suspect just
using one of the better grades of fuel (Top Tier?) which has cleaners in it
would be fine also.  

My cost for the Techron at Costco is about $3/car/year.  That is about what
I think the injector clogging issue is worth with today's fuel and cars.  I
would not go anywhere near a $150 injector flush.  If the injectors truly
are dirty, your emissions and drivability may suffer and you should get them
cleaned professionally (ultrasonic) for about $25-$30/injector.  This would
be a far better investment.

Jack

-----Original Message-----
From: Shop-talk [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of John
T. Blair
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 8:14 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [Shop-talk] Fuel Injector Cleaners

Hey gang,

I went to get my car, a '06 Scion xB /w 54,000 mi, state inspected on Sat.
When it was done, they suggested that I have the fuel injectors "cleaned".
Only $150!

My question to the group, is do you all have this done?  All I've seen on
shows like 60 min, is that the shops were telling people to have it done,
and then charging the customer, but not doing the work.

TIA

John

---

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]

[email-masked]

---

From: John Miller <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2016 08:44:37 -0700

> yrs of age.

60K is nothing these days.

The OBD-II monitoring in the ECU tracks the fuel trim, and will throw a 
code if the ECU isn't able to get things good enough.

If it's running reasonably well, passes smog, doesn't throw codes, then 
don't worry about it.

John.

[email-masked]