From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 2 16:48:02 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 015102584DA5 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2016 16:48:02 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-vk0-f65.google.com (mail-vk0-f65.google.com [209.85.213.65]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CF342587671 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2016 21:36:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-vk0-f65.google.com with SMTP id a62so495959vkh.0 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2016 20:44:05 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc; bh=UhYQwR9SDtW3wsS3eE2UgUuel+s8PrMr8sRhUgxQPbI=; b=A4Z6p1pfUMI5CIc5WGEmrHNrNLase7hKWAyb0ORXbsFp+Ily40aWcE9/Ym6u1ae0f6 RAV9nw/ZDav3zbek6J4vLQ29sFfHKtfpZUI+bMnZcUgzicsWs4RtoWutRRosmziVOzdP Et8M6K0PPxWJvzE47300LR2Oj2cYJhMEMLf+jBmAROPmWaZen+ih+d4yuaCj4L1yjgPQ i/U8IBuF7JThEZCnAzjtGlEY1o29G88rODUBbGTEimMsBcCvLGfXsSA6dh/4oJeSloAS b4kVCJzCTrxsboqTfHl4kAtYwpn/NsZAoIYJ4hGNlAsgLhvABPhXdAwSNJ019wHqaFxJ wK9A== d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc; bh=UhYQwR9SDtW3wsS3eE2UgUuel+s8PrMr8sRhUgxQPbI=; b=jCjEVwWBSVDIauJBZd7hEOmm3k2aNGD10/2dptHVdqkFk9EewW61nlPTq4VI87wOzQ 53ySq5FSX3UfuwmZfpj9Q8VNoSfUWeKmgZAtKMvwtUcwBtvunVcvdJ/dCyA9R7+58rLy vOKF6zwH7B0d8SbiJOQ8t4Ampbu8NJFFjbj7t89sE+TCZWQ8Fbz/LBEvKi46iZXALqnQ QU4TT8w/++NO4nQlfRBaEEEVvDkc+jLhHQxy5A2wtFSUzQsd9Uz4t9CLB4PfVI637FtP wPyeFSx2jIH/tWmrXJO4/IoJN41j/hZ+UEPBgGHRWJpxO+SK4MJ8ynMmGpsi6PfZaBD/ ZvRg== Mon, 28 Mar 2016 20:44:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.176.0.179 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Mar 2016 20:44:04 -0700 (PDT) References: <471E145C-8538-4B61-BDD2-296A5B9EE1CB@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 22:44:04 -0500 From: David Scheidt To: Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> Cc: Joe Szwed , Shop Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Radiant heat for garage Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 9:51 AM, Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> wrote: > Good to hear another who is happy with the bubble wrap. I had never heard of putting it in the walls. That is very interesting and something I will look into. It's snake oil. The radiant barrier does nothing if it's not in free space, and there's essentially zero radiant transfer to stop in your slab. The bubble wrap gives it about R1. Use real insulation. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 2 17:08:43 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 488432585731 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2016 17:08:43 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ob0-f193.google.com (mail-ob0-f193.google.com [209.85.214.193]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0FE825850F3 for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2016 08:42:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-ob0-f193.google.com with SMTP id c1so9842477obw.3 for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2016 07:49:56 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc; bh=zDUs5C6AnQ60cDBrAmvK9RJgpjIkIZGYt/MpKV9y2qI=; b=a1Tptbp18RlZcOJiiF5oNrjiCAxva730FtGJ1HtV79fD6+e/oKZ2heD4+NKf+I81U6 ja/VZUlSHwaiM04hnMsNub2xrs8KJ9v5xYM3LNd1r+99v4Dd6h5fROZndulTsU0V0E8C 0P6K+8r/mmEXRyUClaBIUbZuzIPBuFW1N6PCXmH6APrYKLveMVjori/DPRPX6BE1C5Qm KzrolJ7HZOnGP7OJS19VHrkF/AZcjk9Zml7GTQW9uesrjooXgb42pqSHNMJcVLMnfZrG zIyJV76JPr/t/i9NhtLfrBnGSaX9qpGX9kLlnJjeEy01BT+i46xel5gyWg9kidfsSoPQ z6fw== d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc; bh=zDUs5C6AnQ60cDBrAmvK9RJgpjIkIZGYt/MpKV9y2qI=; b=W/XXjpBPdW+i+ZmqmSY94SxXm0XJDzp0pl+/dk9pSU5YdEKtBwI9v8KaPerlXpYaGw A41loLGpWPbl0j0XBblWOxuy3rxJBslm6r6oIQCD0/IUxM5tdvZ8kicc/At4OyAlDy9A r22elckHDshMwgLV9RL8TYdMape1FfsoPQSRGGbChImG7lJm8+MRLn9qvFEl0hxwHZ6/ YOqHmo986Bz0Du+GCUFe3O5iKb2j3clOWa5PNbz2bfmin+3ebfPbMLbsBLulOZW//uE5 5OSsI8vE9dPXdwssiZS30XyWsqcy59B7S5eVyB+br6ksongm0wUm91UccgMB/+hFuCkY DQRA== Wed, 30 Mar 2016 07:49:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.231.4 with HTTP; Wed, 30 Mar 2016 07:49:50 -0700 (PDT) References: <56FBCD2B.5060209@comcast.net> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 09:49:50 -0500 From: RandE To: "Peter J. Thomas" Cc: shop-talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] blue screen problems... need the gurus Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============5125102888510327196== --001a113d011a106842052f4542e4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Has anything been installed recently? Hardware, software, Windows update, etc.? On Wednesday, March 30, 2016, Peter J. Thomas wrote= : > On 3/29/2016 8:42 PM, john niolon wrote: > > this week I have started getting the =E2=80=98blue screen of death=E2=80= =99!! Gives me > the screen... does the dump and reboots... > > upon reboot I get the =E2=80=98windows had a boo-boo=E2=80=99 box with t= he following > information > > Could be anything, bad hardware or bad driver or corrupted file system or > virus, etc. I believe you have Windows 7. Best advice is to boot into > safe mode and run diagnostics/updates. > > If it is Win 7 consider updating to Win 10. > > > *Problem signature:* > * Problem Event Name: BlueScreen* > * OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.48* > * Locale ID: 1033* > > *Additional information about the problem:* > * BCCode: 19* > * BCP1: 0000000000000020* > * BCP2: FFFFFA800602A590* > * BCP3: FFFFFA800602A5B0* > * BCP4: 0000000004020008* > * OS Version: 6_1_7601* > * Service Pack: 1_0* > * Product: 256_1* > > *Files that help describe the problem:* > * C:\Windows\Minidump\032916-26145-01.dmp* > * C:\Users\User\AppData\Local\Temp\WER-94801-0.sysdata.xml* > > *Read our privacy statement online:* > *http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=3D104288&clcid=3D0x0409* > > > *If the online privacy statement is not available, please read our privac= y > statement offline:* > * C:\Windows\system32\en-US\erofflps.txt* > > of course all of this is just gobblede-gook to me. I did finally get it > to allow me to print out the minidump and have it saved if someone wants = to > look at it > I used to be able to read memory dumps, but that was 30 years ago with > mainframes and cobol... this don=E2=80=99t look like those ! > > any of you super guru binary/hex people give me an idea what=E2=80=99s bl= owing up > my pc ??? I would certainly appreciate some guidance... I can email yo= u > the dump if it helps > > thanks > John > (shop content... I use my computer to order tools and =E2=80=98stuff=E2= =80=99 for my shop ) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pj_th= omas@comcast.net > > > --001a113d011a106842052f4542e4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Has anything been installed recently?=C2=A0 Hardware, software, Windows upd= ate, etc.?

On Wednesday, March 30, 2016, Peter J. Thomas <pj_thomas@comcast.net> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px= #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> =20 =20 =20
On 3/29/2016 8:42 PM, john niolon wrote:
this week I have started getting the =E2=80=98blue screen of death=E2=80=99!!=C2=A0=C2=A0 Gives me the screen... does the du= mp and reboots...
=C2=A0
upon reboot I get the =E2=80=98windows had a boo-boo=E2=80= =99=C2=A0 box with the following information
Could be anything, bad hardware or bad driver or corrupted file system or virus, etc.=C2=A0 I believe you have Windows 7.=C2=A0 Best ad= vice is to boot into safe mode and run diagnostics/updates.

If it is Win 7 consider updating to Win 10.
=C2=A0
Problem signature:
=C2=A0 Problem Event Name:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 BlueScreen<= /em>
=C2=A0 OS Version:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.= 48
=C2=A0 Locale ID:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 1033
=C2=A0
Additional information about the problem:
=C2=A0 BCCode:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 19
=C2=A0 BCP1:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 0000000000000020
=C2=A0 BCP2:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 FFFFFA800602A590
=C2=A0 BCP3:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 FFFFFA800602A5B0
=C2=A0 BCP4:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 0000000004020008
=C2=A0 OS Version:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 6_1_7601
=C2=A0 Service Pack:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 1_0
=C2=A0 Product:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 256_1
=C2=A0
Files that help describe the problem:
=C2=A0 C:\Windows\Minidump\032916-26145-01.dmp
=C2=A0 C:\Users\User\AppData\Local\Temp\WER-94801-0.sysdata.xml=
=C2=A0
Read our privacy statement online:
=C2=A0
If the online privacy statement is not available, please read our privacy statement offline:
=C2=A0 C:\Windows\system32\en-US\erofflps.txt
=C2=A0
of course all of this is just gobblede-gook to me.=C2=A0=C2= =A0 I did finally get it to allow me to print out the minidump and have it saved if someone wants to look at it
I used to be able to read memory dumps, but that was 30 years ago with mainframes and cobol...=C2=A0 this don=E2=80=99t= look like those !=C2=A0
=C2=A0
any of you super guru binary/hex people give me an idea what=E2=80=99s blowing up my pc ???=C2=A0=C2=A0 I would certain= ly appreciate some guidance...=C2=A0 I can email you the dump if it helps
=C2=A0
thanks
John
(shop content... I use my computer to order tools and =E2=80=98stuff=E2=80=99 for my shop )
=C2=A0
=C2=A0


_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
//www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://w=
ww.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www=
.team.net/forums
alk/pj_thomas@comcast.net" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/=
options/shop-talk/pj_thomas@comcast.net

--001a113d011a106842052f4542e4-- --===============5125102888510327196== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============5125102888510327196==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 2 17:26:48 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D60C02586686 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2016 17:26:48 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mr11p24im-asmtp003.me.com (mr11p24im-asmtp003.me.com [17.110.78.109]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1FCA25877AC for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2016 19:49:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.50.72] (unknown [184.105.18.14]) by mr11p24im-asmtp003.me.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7.0.5.36.0 64bit (built Sep 8 2015)) with ESMTPSA id <0O4V008BYS3FHF00@mr11p24im-asmtp003.me.com> for shop-talk@autox.team.net; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 01:57:24 +0000 (GMT) definitions=2016-03-30_11:,, signatures=0 clxscore=1011 suspectscore=2 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1510270003 definitions=main-1603310021 References: <56FBCD2B.5060209@comcast.net> <32183018BDE1473480595A75821FCBEB@UserPC> From: Pat Horne Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 20:57:12 -0500 To: john niolon Cc: rande@pobox.com, shop-talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] blue screen problems... need the gurus Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============4690847901271457341== boundary=Apple-Mail-DAECC8B6-38A2-4BFC-817A-8629D58814ED Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit --Apple-Mail-DAECC8B6-38A2-4BFC-817A-8629D58814ED charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'd try removing half the memory and run for a week. If it doesn't crash, ad= d some memory back. If it still crashes swap out the memory for what was rem= oved.=20 I'm not a fan of running the latest os, unless I was running vista.=20 You might also set up another user and see if it crashes.=20 Peace, Pat Pat Horne=20 We support Caldwell County Habitat for Humanity On Mar 30, 2016, at 7:10 PM, john niolon wrote: =20 should I be comfortable with Win 10... if it=E2=80=99s hardware it should f= ollow me right ?? _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive as@icloud.com --Apple-Mail-DAECC8B6-38A2-4BFC-817A-8629D58814ED charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'd try removing half the memory and r= un for a week. If it doesn't crash, add some memory back. If it still crashe= s swap out the memory for what was removed. 

I'm not a fan of running t= he latest os, unless I was running vista. 

You might also set up= another user and see if it crashes. 
Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We su= pport Caldwell County Habitat for Humanity

On Mar 30, 2016, at 7:10 PM, john niolon <jniolon@att.net> wrote:
 
should I be comfortable with Win 10...   if it=E2=80=99s hard= ware it=20 should follow me right ??
_______________________________________________
<= span>
Shop-talk@= autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested ann= ual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
<= span>Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-ta= lk/patintexas@icloud.com

= --Apple-Mail-DAECC8B6-38A2-4BFC-817A-8629D58814ED-- --===============4690847901271457341== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============4690847901271457341==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 2 17:44:49 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9497225861BE for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2016 17:44:49 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-yw0-f181.google.com (mail-yw0-f181.google.com [209.85.161.181]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CD0925881E6 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 10:36:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-yw0-f181.google.com with SMTP id h65so104465151ywe.0 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 09:43:54 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc; bh=nQrAsLX/zrp792GmwUDJ+lFukk9K6JYdXnsWhJPii9M=; b=AvZTPa147NuqheOLN8kgV9cNlY0ruKw+z5QylevnnQbOMbNjoEIE8liMBA5n1WR0TA mjZKkJJOH0jxSw3zvg8hSdgQYCBnh7hrAUY00RX81uxQPW/KvZ/ZAn9wi5kk4IVRTtGs AdC0RKZwwLW++9NPNQ+RDUOHdHLOgdf7l9QvytRLtwD0xyszSpEd+ltsKNj8wPFwD+kE UsisyUo4U0eV3OWQbecBcj2gyYYasvdbHiduUTsAQ6Axn4tTF9dQ1QhthMbVZSp7QD+1 TwJsNz7b2dajGDmgUuoIuNDe85TdiXCV2kO5VB6sGaP+R/c2NBhnFNXllMwQJw8iCG1S xfkw== d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc; bh=nQrAsLX/zrp792GmwUDJ+lFukk9K6JYdXnsWhJPii9M=; b=br9ZkO4I5nOhv9xlb5lmXbb045VFCJ8hlUOe6wBt8m81w55FmuxQZ/DnzK4jAZxhFz gCzWtTQ0mzxaBOOTOPWO8djKeruXNjJNn3shms9929hyReRsQziKqYRuIjmTHLBXMNYM Y92knvwYxVpC8c2WwkslMXJiI7gnwEG0cF3lCwnv44hDHhWgKRsS0v8XzbHs/nHifZpT K01Nfw2y3huV5FAX9wysaNIhkdmSwoGrmxj3qdUwbbIRvvdFD5sh/mmhOZYCinX2NUK+ Sq3Va1H1pzt+17pjq/NCyPDfLw1iaahtokkyIiAbqppooKLkmyoRZASVMefZWRPsdc62 2BIA== Thu, 31 Mar 2016 09:43:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.13.194.66 with HTTP; Thu, 31 Mar 2016 09:43:48 -0700 (PDT) References: <56FBCD2B.5060209@comcast.net> <32183018BDE1473480595A75821FCBEB@UserPC> <6.2.5.6.1.20160331065130.04c188f8@cox.net> <000a01d18b64$0b558700$22009500$@lotusowners.com> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 11:43:48 -0500 From: John Innis To: Tony Vaccaro Cc: shop-talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] blue screen problems... need the gurus Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============7849327886444128752== --001a114e7e30723e98052f5af76d Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I would think it depends a lot on the fan and what is powering that fan. Modern CPU fans are all speed controlled, usually by a dedicated driver chip. Those chips are normally robust enough to withstand significant back voltage without damage. An increasing number of these fans are also brushless. As such, they develop much less voltage when spun up than a standard DC motor would. As long as there is no excitation voltage in the field, they are not going to output much. On the other hand it you have a fixed speed Brushed DC motor case fan that is connected to the 5v rail of the power supply you could generate significant voltage and apply it to everything on that same 5v rail. On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 10:43 AM, Tony Vaccaro wrote: > > > > > *From:* Shop-talk [mailto:shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net] *On Behalf Of > *John T. Blair > *Sent:* Thursday, March 31, 2016 6:55 AM > *To:* shop-talk > While I see the logic in this, I have never had that thought. I have been > working on computers for 35 years. Blown out hundreds of computers. > Sometimes I block the fan, sometimes I don=E2=80=99t, but if I do it is o= nly to not > damage the fan and I just usually do it on Laptops as the fans are much > more fragile. > > > > I have never had a computer fail to restart (which damaging the CPU would > do) after blowing it out. My blower is super powerful and I used to use > compressed air. I would spin those suckers right up. > > > > I would suspect there is a crowbar circuit in the CPU logic circuitry to > prevent this from happening. > > > > I am not saying that this is not possible, just in all my years I have > never seen it happen and I have seen most other computer related stuff > happen. Not much I have missed. > > > > Tony V > > > > *Subject:* Re: [Shop-talk] blue screen problems... need the gurus > > > > At 10:01 PM 3/30/2016, Brian Kemp wrote: > > >John - You may have a dust problem. Remove the power cord and open the > >computer. Take a shop vac that blows or some compressed air and clean > things > >out. It is best to do this outside. > > John, > > If you blow down the inside of the computer with compressed air, put a > finger on > the fan on the CPU. You don't want it to turn. The compressed air can > spin up > the fan a lot faster than it is supposed to run. So a DC motor being > turned > externally becomes a generator, and spinning faster then design speed > causes it > to output a higher voltage than it runs on. This overvoltage is being > applied back > to the mother board and can back feed the CPU and cause it to fail. > > John > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis@gmail.com > > > --=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D Never offend people with style when you =3D =3D can offend with substance --- Sam Brown =3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D --001a114e7e30723e98052f5af76d Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I would think it depends a lot on the fan and what is powe= ring that fan.=C2=A0 Modern CPU fans are all speed controlled, usually by a= dedicated driver chip.=C2=A0 Those chips are normally robust enough to wit= hstand significant back voltage without damage.=C2=A0 An increasing number = of these fans are also brushless.=C2=A0 As such, they develop much less vol= tage when spun up than a standard DC motor would.=C2=A0 As long as there is= no excitation voltage in the field, they are not going to output much.=C2= =A0 On the other hand it you have a fixed speed Brushed DC motor case fan t= hat is connected to the 5v rail of the power supply you could generate sign= ificant voltage and apply it to everything on that same 5v rail.=C2=A0
=

On Thu, Mar= 31, 2016 at 10:43 AM, Tony Vaccaro <tvacc@lotusowners.com> wrote:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=

From: Shop-talk [mailto:shop-talk-bounces= @autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John T. Blair
Sent: Thur= sday, March 31, 2016 6:55 AM
To: shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>= ;
While I see the logic in this, I have never had that thought. I have b= een working on computers for 35 years. Blown out hundreds of computers. Som= etimes I block the fan, sometimes I don=E2=80=99t, but if I do it is only t= o not damage the fan and I just usually do it on Laptops as the fans are mu= ch more fragile.

=C2= =A0

I have never had a computer fa= il to restart (which damaging the CPU would do) after blowing it out. My bl= ower is super powerful and I used to use compressed air. I would spin those= suckers right up.

= =C2=A0

I would suspect there is a = crowbar circuit in the CPU logic circuitry to prevent this from happening. =

=C2=A0

I am not saying that this is not possible, jus= t in all my years I have never seen it happen and I have seen most other co= mputer related stuff happen. Not much I have missed.

=C2=A0

Tony V

=C2=A0

Subject= : Re: [Shop-talk] blue screen problems... need the gurus=

=C2=A0

At 10:01 PM = 3/30/2016, Brian Kemp wrote:

>John - You may hav= e a dust problem.=C2=A0 Remove the power cord and open the
>computer.= =C2=A0 Take a shop vac that blows or some compressed air and clean things <= br>>out.=C2=A0 It is best to do this outside.

John,

If you= blow down the inside of the computer with compressed air, put a finger on<= br>the fan on the CPU.=C2=A0 You don't want it to turn.=C2=A0 The compr= essed air can spin up
the fan a lot faster than it is supposed to run.= =C2=A0 So a DC motor being turned
externally becomes a generator, and s= pinning faster then design speed causes it
to output a higher voltage th= an it runs on.=C2=A0 This overvoltage is being applied back
to the mothe= r board and can back feed the CPU and cause it to fail.

John

=

=C2=A0


_______________________________= ________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
alk/jdinnis@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.te= am.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis@gmail.com





--
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D Never offend people with style = when you=C2=A0=C2=A0 =3D
=3D can offend with substance --- Sam Brown=C2= =A0 =3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
--001a114e7e30723e98052f5af76d-- --===============7849327886444128752== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============7849327886444128752==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 2 19:49:33 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13480258668C for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2016 19:49:33 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cdptpa-oedge-vip.email.rr.com (cdptpa-outbound-snat.email.rr.com [107.14.166.229]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84B5125863B1 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2016 18:51:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.248.153.253] ([172.248.153.253:1275] helo=rypc) by cdptpa-oedge01 (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.5.0.35861 r(Momo-dev:tip)) with ESMTP id 49/E7-16479-2DA60075; Sun, 03 Apr 2016 00:58:58 +0000 From: "Randall" Cc: "'shop-talk'" Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 17:59:01 -0700 Thread-Index: AdGNO2P0hfS0lejCTLGH8+OIQLjqygABu3fw Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] blue screen problems... need the gurus Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > On the other hand it you have a fixed speed Brushed DC > motor case fan I've been working with computers for more decades than I care to count, since before the PC was even created; and I have _never-_ seen a computer fan with brushes. How crazy would you have to be to deliberately mount a source of EMI not just inside your computer case but on it's power bus if you didn't have to ?? Not to mention conductive dust from brush wear. Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 5 16:29:33 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 154762588513 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2016 16:29:33 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from homiemail-a69.g.dreamhost.com (sub5.mail.dreamhost.com [208.113.200.129]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D8A72588098 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2016 06:37:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from homiemail-a69.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a69.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E14C400E513A for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2016 05:45:23 -0700 (PDT) :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:subject:message-id:date :to:mime-version; s=groupwbench.org; bh=OhokGGpMLu/0E56p9KfswGoZ 8Q4=; b=KSFq7IUh7NdonZyxXe11paNWtvVe8Fty1piWZF5DAl8ozhA247vp9JWw x23y2KSvBH5gC1/qzQMwaKTLNCJXbwm2KSG87IUw5NyQJ428imOvj0MKhtohb6DC jJI/W7CukOBSJgj14YFjniVQTXhGXf4rjTRXLRs0sIyVE0DzB7c= Received: from jims-imac.home (pool-98-118-109-236.bstnma.fios.verizon.net [98.118.109.236]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jamesf@groupwbench.org) by homiemail-a69.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1B08B400E513B for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2016 05:45:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Franklin Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 08:45:21 -0400 To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I've searched the Internet, but all answers seem to require that I actually see evidence, and I don't. It's in the ceiling between floors. No droppings anywhere. I hear little feet like mice skittering across the ceiling, and a great big ruckus like two squirrels chasing each other, moving quickly in the 3/4" space created by the strapping between joists and sheetrock. They are loudly active mostly at night, almost always at 4:30am. Often in the evenings, but sometimes during the day too. However, I haven't heard them in 2 days. Sometimes this happens. I cannot find any entry points, so I can't observe how they are getting in. A lot of the roof trim is rotted at the ends, but there is no evidence of anything in the attic, and I never hear anything in the walls. In the past, any mice have eventually made it to the basement traps, but not this time. thanks, jim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 5 23:20:01 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BF292588630 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2016 23:20:01 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mr11p24im-asmtp003.me.com (mr11p24im-asmtp003.me.com [17.110.78.109]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBEA62587804 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2016 17:08:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PatsOffice (unknown [184.105.18.14]) by mr11p24im-asmtp003.me.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7.0.5.36.0 64bit (built Sep 8 2015)) with ESMTPSA id <0O560050AOMRDF10@mr11p24im-asmtp003.me.com> for Shop-talk@autox.team.net; Tue, 05 Apr 2016 23:16:05 +0000 (GMT) definitions=2016-04-06_01:,, signatures=0 clxscore=1011 suspectscore=2 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1510270003 definitions=main-1604050331 From: Pat Horne To: 'Jim Franklin' , Shop-talk@autox.team.net References: Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2016 18:15:47 -0500 Thread-index: AdGPjYxzvr3Bkk6dSMGcupPVoC4KMwAAsLqg Content-language: en-us Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Jim, 3/4" space is probably mice. They can get through spaces about the size of a dime. Rats need a hole about the size of a quarter. Squirrels need more space than that. Where do you live? Any chance you have a camera that could be set up in the space that has motion detection? You can always use bait to poison them. I don't use it often, but when I have, they left the building to die. YMMV. Peace, Pat -----Original Message----- From: Shop-talk [mailto:shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jim Franklin Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2016 7:45 AM To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling? I've searched the Internet, but all answers seem to require that I actually see evidence, and I don't. It's in the ceiling between floors. No droppings anywhere. I hear little feet like mice skittering across the ceiling, and a great big ruckus like two squirrels chasing each other, moving quickly in the 3/4" space created by the strapping between joists and sheetrock. They are loudly active mostly at night, almost always at 4:30am. Often in the evenings, but sometimes during the day too. However, I haven't heard them in 2 days. Sometimes this happens. I cannot find any entry points, so I can't observe how they are getting in. A lot of the roof trim is rotted at the ends, but there is no evidence of anythingin the attic, and I never hear anything in the walls. In the past, any mice have eventually made it to the basement traps, but not this time. thanks, jim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas@icloud.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 6 00:05:20 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 821282587B2B for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 00:05:20 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ig0-f196.google.com (mail-ig0-f196.google.com [209.85.213.196]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1D062588549 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2016 17:10:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-ig0-f196.google.com with SMTP id nt3so4769065igb.0 for ; Tue, 05 Apr 2016 16:18:56 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=VglFOC9zMp4CZX9uM00UdnKfMIA5EijiscOK/fBvPgY=; b=Y7I4zcSw2j75aKhLD6r/6EYqD4l+PRRcnVAZJ+edualL1GDnhwCbM29NOllMJzX8hU bVwtZo3bQE6MKrb5Lo+mynFVMQZ9oRu2vzMUJupmVLfVCMAGgxfbCF1FCuk8Y7avcEo4 b7wxrg29Xt2y5YrmYKFcfT+N9+lhwlwovdd3F9SMkGh0ZPA1xzSNxowC4RirAou0405p eEOgzqvwKltCeD/gUrd2leOSH8ngWhFQNkQC0JZVVBFNKBGnLMXMJg7ZgcNYHN0DWLkF 604JsALrD56eNcAnWDgpbI8vcf+XlW/gqdTgHzuiTY0n657BxwfLyD+6ZwWVDW93p9jL R2Qw== d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=VglFOC9zMp4CZX9uM00UdnKfMIA5EijiscOK/fBvPgY=; b=U9GDL10BMS4VshazbYya5foTePDku+rRx/S5mC6sRlBd4l92vreKW1PEH0cT02rRxW u04GvF48uUqYpooW/IP6eHcnSDdTN6fLS5+7k5i7I35sN4/KIppeBGjJRgbY9KEn+UkM 86KZZ06UqHak3+4lQgtt7fLUAVutJRO0Q/IuCP3aVSdXnm8GhkCfK9JzOSYdPk+HxQ2P QAPsC07KSmfUeOMZ+yUZ0yG+zrVOHRQmF3QJ/PJFrNt6vf5JZKt6zOt5ibRor3nitQPa S0HgmOvNx+0yU+xWpcAe/Sz7xMfsed9iys3KZ2OZ2Sw33TUFi9vrXMxl7NvHl6LGrdf7 q2oA== 05 Apr 2016 16:18:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.209.68 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Apr 2016 16:18:56 -0700 (PDT) References: Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 19:18:56 -0400 From: Jeff Scarbrough To: Jim Franklin , "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net If it sounds like squirrels, it very likely is. We had them in our walls, and it sounded just like what you describe. We got this http://www.amazon.com/Ortho-Repellent-1-Gallon-Groundhog-Herbivore/dp/B009QAPT24 and sprayed the heck out of the side of the house. They don't seem to like it, and they went away. Unfortunately, they remember where they lived and they will come back next year, if not in the fall. Once you chase them off, you will need to continue to spray in the fall and spring (start early!) to convince them that elsewhere is better. Good luck! Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 8:45 AM, Jim Franklin wrote: > I've searched the Internet, but all answers seem to require that I actually see evidence, and I don't. It's in the ceiling between floors. No droppings anywhere. I hear little feet like mice skittering across the ceiling, and a great big ruckus like two squirrels chasing each other, moving quickly in the 3/4" space created by the strapping between joists and sheetrock. > > They are loudly active mostly at night, almost always at 4:30am. Often in the evenings, but sometimes during the day too. However, I haven't heard them in 2 days. Sometimes this happens. > > I cannot find any entry points, so I can't observe how they are getting in. A lot of the roof trim is rotted at the ends, but there is no evidence of anything in the attic, and I never hear anything in the walls. > > In the past, any mice have eventually made it to the basement traps, but not this time. > > thanks, > jim > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 6 00:59:33 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 798522588867 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 00:59:33 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-ch2-05v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-05v.sys.comcast.net [69.252.207.37]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61E432584A43 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2016 18:22:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-08v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.104]) by comcast with SMTP id nbMYadXKABE6OnbMuaVk8g; Wed, 06 Apr 2016 00:30:48 +0000 s=q20140121; t=1459902648; bh=bBJKXHDVyDsOSie11+v0hkf2mWtYJBo1/NGEOmAj7SY=; h=Received:Received:MIME-Version:To:From:Subject:Date:Content-Type; b=XYiHHLNCjGYgL7B0tNPCQeBPWMEsvG3Q2Ip6LOJbkN/hbqjOHKEGHXKUaJWDUcfqT 2iWTOKJuZrZzIJ+x2B7td0q2aCHkldVzMfT94hDR9jss4ur/8kl7h5E4WDRf7kCSbS Mm7EaX8oo+DQbiPIIEccxz01VqtvbRXFWXArRdEYe5viWsL07xelSjWbI7yNkvd08B hiYjQZr2rLxM1kXVM3MkBS69LmfIiadUu6PRrbu/pw5VUvPe34EPozpycVUvC4lSj0 IPkESvcKjk5c3Rr322rmYDQaxozqZtaEPXHEJDPt1h4ch66Sw4lzUcBFkQZ4pG0QRj PG3R8HobJ6yrQ== Received: from [IPv6:::ffff:192.168.1.179] ([68.61.187.195]) by resomta-ch2-08v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id eoWn1s00W4DNuTG01oWoAE; Wed, 06 Apr 2016 00:30:48 +0000 To: Jim Franklin , "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" From: Gordie Bird Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 20:30:48 -0400 Importance: normal References: Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling? Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============5465151346463819870== boundary="_81CD8215-43C8-4D74-8D1C-24CC8BBC1A8A_" --_81CD8215-43C8-4D74-8D1C-24CC8BBC1A8A_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sounds like bats to me. Only need a gap the size of a dime to get in. Dr= oppings will be at the entry points. If it is warm where you are at, you m= ay be able to see them come or go after dusk or just before dawn.=20 Since they are protected, you must exclude them rather than kill them. Took nearly 2 yrs to get them out of my attic. =20 Good luck, Gordie From: Jim Franklin Sent: Tuesday, April 5, 2016 6:42 PM To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling? I've searched the Internet, but all answers seem to require that I actually= see evidence, and I don't. It's in the ceiling between floors. No dropping= s anywhere. I hear little feet like mice skittering across the ceiling, and= a great big ruckus like two squirrels chasing each other, moving quickly i= n the 3/4" space created by the strapping between joists and sheetrock.=20 They are loudly active mostly at night, almost always at 4:30am. Often in t= he evenings, but sometimes during the day too. However, I haven't heard the= m in 2 days. Sometimes this happens. I cannot find any entry points, so I can't observe how they are getting in.= A lot of the roof trim is rotted at the ends, but there is no evidence of = anything in the attic, and I never hear anything in the walls.=20 In the past, any mice have eventually made it to the basement traps, but no= t this time.=20 thanks, jim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive ge@comcast.net --_81CD8215-43C8-4D74-8D1C-24CC8BBC1A8A_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Sounds like bats to me.=C2=A0 Only n= eed a gap the size of a dime to get in.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Droppings will be at th= e entry points.=C2=A0 If it is warm where you are at, you may be able to se= e them come or go after dusk or just before dawn.

= Since they are protected, you must exclude them rather than kill them.

<= p class=3DMsoNormal>Took nearly 2 yrs to get them out of my attic.=C2=A0

 

Good luck,=

Gordie

 

 

 = ;

 

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>&n= bsp;

From: Jim Franklin
Sent: Tuesday, April 5, 2016 6= :42 PM
To: Shop-talk@= autox.team.net
Subject: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceil= ing?

 

I've searched the Internet, but all answers seem to require that I actua= lly see evidence, and I don't. It's in the ceiling between floors. No dropp= ings anywhere. I hear little feet like mice skittering across the ceiling, = and a great big ruckus like two squirrels chasing each other, moving quickl= y in the 3/4" space created by the strapping between joists and sheetr= ock.

 

The= y are loudly active mostly at night, almost always at 4:30am. Often in the = evenings, but sometimes during the day too. However, I haven't heard them i= n 2 days. Sometimes this happens.

 =

I cannot find any entry points, so I can't observe= how they are getting in. A lot of the roof trim is rotted at the ends, but= there is no evidence of anything in the attic, and I never hear anything i= n the walls.

 

In the past, any mice have eventually made it to the basement traps, b= ut not this time.

 

thanks,

jim

_____= __________________________________________

&nb= sp;

Shop-talk@autox.team.net

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html

Sug= gested annual donation=C2=A0 $12.96

Archive: http:/= /www.team.net/archive

Forums: http://www.team.net/f= orums

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mai= lman/options/shop-talk/mg_garage@comcast.net

&= nbsp;

 

= --_81CD8215-43C8-4D74-8D1C-24CC8BBC1A8A_-- --===============5465151346463819870== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============5465151346463819870==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 6 06:56:32 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD4422588BFA for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 06:56:32 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from COL004-OMC4S3.hotmail.com (col004-omc4s3.hotmail.com [65.55.34.205]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1ACF2588BFF for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 06:20:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from NAM03-CO1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com ([65.55.34.200]) by COL004-OMC4S3.hotmail.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.23008); Wed, 6 Apr 2016 05:27:52 -0700 s=selector1; h=From:To:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=mZWRC4c9ovXxLx/FYUgyT/Oee9DL+SkEJ8a19jz/bLw=; b=QO65ySZwR6AtByR2XqK55IobX4kAR++Fl8pc0F90iTjwRGDhTFKKAijttTgMlpq6N8HgF1CL2Sy1Jp7qUlG+zKakyFgrI64sXwTx7DLP0D6XyfUsVjmdrC08qOJwY2u1rvOge4NeAN9gfFlLFhiSvwLrkSXSUbKvat+qNzXLwjBbyFSuOwaZ9Tu4YS8fxEVkRsoDw7UF3VNuFoTA85951on7OKbxn/cMYlj2L5sYftgmGmR3rJkw7aCnmko/kg+6J7XhyL/rVNZ/rg2pdqwOBchk6ffDOgjPjpQDbQlN2rgKoJi5A/CjiQ+wvtRb9Pk1KjHHEthoFhlQ+ZdaPtyBww== Received: from BY2NAM03FT011.eop-NAM03.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.84.56) by BY2NAM03HT100.eop-NAM03.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.85.230) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.453.6; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 12:27:51 +0000 Received: from DM3PR13MB0538.namprd13.prod.outlook.com (10.152.84.53) by BY2NAM03FT011.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.84.233) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.453.6 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 12:27:51 +0000 Received: from DM3PR13MB0538.namprd13.prod.outlook.com ([10.164.8.24]) by DM3PR13MB0538.namprd13.prod.outlook.com ([10.164.8.24]) with mapi id 15.01.0453.027; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 12:27:51 +0000 From: "Tim ." To: "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" Thread-Topic: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling? Thread-Index: AQHRj4wXKrYJ9q1xXU+W3k3/MAVuwJ98GAkAgADHhIk= Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 12:27:51 +0000 References: , <20160406070127.AF362258849B@autox.team.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US authentication-results: spf=softfail (sender IP is 25.152.84.53) header.d=none; autox.team.net; dmarc=fail action=none header.from=outlook.com; received-spf: SoftFail (protection.outlook.com: domain of transitioning outlook.com discourages use of 25.152.84.53 as permitted sender) x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-tmn: [Zv/bYBlwnlMuMUbJP5+1PJvYT+1cgPOp] x-eopattributedmessage: 0 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:25.152.84.53; IPV:NLI; CTRY:GB; EFV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(98900003); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BY2NAM03HT100; H:DM3PR13MB0538.namprd13.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:SoftFail; MLV:ovrnspm; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 9118ad7f-6f22-4660-5e5c-08d35e16def2 x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(5061506196)(5061507196); SRVR:BY2NAM03HT100; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(432015012)(82015046); SRVR:BY2NAM03HT100; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:BY2NAM03HT100; x-forefront-prvs: 0904004ECB FILETIME=[BD68A7C0:01D18FFF] Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling? Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============8002753261525401794== Content-Language: en-US boundary="_000_DM3PR13MB0538E07122ACDC38143946C4B49F0DM3PR13MB0538namp_" --_000_DM3PR13MB0538E07122ACDC38143946C4B49F0DM3PR13MB0538namp_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The timing leans towards bats coming and leaving. If you have enough, as on= e our neighbors did, you can definitely hear them going in and out. "Droppings will be at the entry points"...I sure hope this isn't accurate. = I have bats in my attic and there are droppings in many places.....places w= here, if they were getting in and out, water would be as well. tim ________________________________ From: Shop-talk on behalf of Gordie Bird= Sent: Tuesday, April 5, 2016 7:30 PM To: Jim Franklin; Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling? Sounds like bats to me. Only need a gap the size of a dime to get in. Dr= oppings will be at the entry points. If it is warm where you are at, you m= ay be able to see them come or go after dusk or just before dawn. Since they are protected, you must exclude them rather than kill them. Took nearly 2 yrs to get them out of my attic. Good luck, Gordie Sent: Tuesday, April 5, 2016 6:42 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling? I've searched the Internet, but all answers seem to require that I actually= see evidence, and I don't. It's in the ceiling between floors. No dropping= s anywhere. I hear little feet like mice skittering across the ceiling, and= a great big ruckus like two squirrels chasing each other, moving quickly i= n the 3/4" space created by the strapping between joists and sheetrock. They are loudly active mostly at night, almost always at 4:30am. Often in t= he evenings, but sometimes during the day too. However, I haven't heard the= m in 2 days. Sometimes this happens. I cannot find any entry points, so I can't observe how they are getting in.= A lot of the roof trim is rotted at the ends, but there is no evidence of = anything in the attic, and I never hear anything in the walls. In the past, any mice have eventually made it to the basement traps, but no= t this time. thanks, jim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive ge@comcast.net --_000_DM3PR13MB0538E07122ACDC38143946C4B49F0DM3PR13MB0538namp_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The timing leans towards bats coming and leaving. If you have enough, as= one our neighbors did, you can definitely hear them going in and out. = ;


"Droppings will be at the entry points"...I sure hope this isn't = accurate. I have bats in my attic and there are droppings in many places...= ..places where, if they were getting in and out, water would be as well. 

=

= tim



From: Shop-talk <shop-ta= lk-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Gordie Bird <mg_garage@comcas= t.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 5, 2016 7:30 PM
To: Jim Franklin; Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling?
 

Sounds like bats to me.  Only need a gap the size of a dime to get in.=    Droppings will be at the entry points.  If it is warm whe= re you are at, you may be able to see them come or go after dusk or just be= fore dawn.

Since they are protected, you must exclude them rather than kill them.

Took nearly 2 yrs to get them out of my attic. 

 

Good luck,

Gordie

 

 

 

 

 

From: Jim Franklin
Sent: Tuesday, April 5, 2016 6:42 PM
To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Subject: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling?

 

I've searched the Internet, but all answers seem to require that I actually= see evidence, and I don't. It's in the ceiling between floors. No dropping= s anywhere. I hear little feet like mice skittering across the ceiling, and= a great big ruckus like two squirrels chasing each other, moving quickly in the 3/4" space created by the s= trapping between joists and sheetrock.

 

They are loudly active mostly at night, almost always at 4:30am. Often in t= he evenings, but sometimes during the day too. However, I haven't heard the= m in 2 days. Sometimes this happens.

 

I cannot find any entry points, so I can't observe how they are getting in.= A lot of the roof trim is rotted at the ends, but there is no evidence of = anything in the attic, and I never hear anything in the walls.

 

In the past, any mice have eventually made it to the basement traps, but no= t this time.

 

thanks,

jim

_______________________________________________

 

Shop-talk@autox.team.net

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

ge@comcast.net

 

 

--_000_DM3PR13MB0538E07122ACDC38143946C4B49F0DM3PR13MB0538namp_-- --===============8002753261525401794== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============8002753261525401794==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 6 11:51:15 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFFA5258820D for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 11:51:15 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-ch2-10v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-10v.sys.comcast.net [69.252.207.42]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC5AE2588BF7 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 08:45:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-08v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.104]) by comcast with SMTP id nonYa07WSpUrhnopvaHLiU; Wed, 06 Apr 2016 14:53:39 +0000 s=q20140121; t=1459954419; bh=Ob/O99wTqDlx8WNNYGeW6JBezf5z5Z7rKo10M9s88mQ=; h=Received:Received:MIME-Version:To:From:Subject:Date:Content-Type; b=YZFIuFnH1XzOJYaguBVxFs2JiOEQyxW1gL2LEUD4iR45tCq7HmnSWZn7pc7aIUcNz fAvC5aG5z+jupqFSpeF6+Y7HgBdUKX6INBNVn2SfEuTMXaVHNkk4zg1nLxfsMZgTn8 KRISI4W6KhCIqMqmQl6xc0yXINsiPtxfg2PPSU48htvHa+hfpw5sHhZHkEviaVNfhc JsKEXzkNgjCeKVnne6LUjfAzbuhwV1WbBCTjJOxsILgQucNrdEAfB6oN+Yr30AOn0C /AQ+a5bD3EG0aUz06LDDRME06QIOK7zohEoxRqD5AE2C3X1IZSRlbHY9leOtG3YzcQ 3cVEKAKpQvKvA== Received: from [IPv6:::ffff:192.168.1.179] ([68.61.187.195]) by resomta-ch2-08v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id f2te1s00Y4DNuTG012tfmz; Wed, 06 Apr 2016 14:53:39 +0000 To: "Tim ." , "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" From: Gordie Bird Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 10:53:39 -0400 Importance: normal Thread-Topic: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling? References: , <20160406070127.AF362258849B@autox.team.net> boundary="_D38C140D-35EB-4F04-B498-B2FF1D429BAC_" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling? Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --_D38C140D-35EB-4F04-B498-B2FF1D429BAC_ boundary="_BEE99AFF-ED0D-4AEC-A842-3D52CC63F9D1_" --_BEE99AFF-ED0D-4AEC-A842-3D52CC63F9D1_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Generally you will find bats entering and leaving in the east, south, or so= utheast of the structure. Any place I saw them entering my house was prett= y protected, like a soffit, or the end of a ridge vent that was not sealed = properly. Droppings can be noticed on inside or outside. I got most of my education (and the bat houses that I built) from the Bat C= onservancy=E2=80=A6 http://www.batcon.org/, as well as the =E2=80=98bat man= =E2=80=99 that I hired for the exclusion (after I tried unsuccessfully). They are good to have around, just not in the attic! Gordie From: Tim . Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 9:11 AM To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling? The timing leans towards bats coming and leaving. If you have enough, as on= e our neighbors did, you can definitely hear them going in and out.=C2=A0 "Droppings will be at the entry points"...I sure hope this isn't accurate. = I have bats in my attic and there are droppings in many places.....places w= here, if they were getting in and out,=C2=A0water would be as well.=C2=A0 tim From: Shop-talk on behalf of Gordie Bird= Sent: Tuesday, April 5, 2016 7:30 PM To: Jim Franklin; Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling?=20 =C2=A0 Sounds like bats to me.=C2=A0 Only need a gap the size of a dime to get in.= =C2=A0 =C2=A0Droppings will be at the entry points.=C2=A0 If it is warm whe= re you are at, you may be able to see them come or go after dusk or just be= fore dawn.=20 Since they are protected, you must exclude them rather than kill them. Took nearly 2 yrs to get them out of my attic.=C2=A0=20 =C2=A0 Good luck, Gordie =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 From: Jim Franklin Sent: Tuesday, April 5, 2016 6:42 PM To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling? =C2=A0 I've searched the Internet, but all answers seem to require that I actually= see evidence, and I don't. It's in the ceiling between floors. No dropping= s anywhere. I hear little feet like mice skittering across the ceiling, and= a great big ruckus like two squirrels chasing each other, moving quickly i= n the 3/4" space created by the strapping between joists and sheetrock.=20 =C2=A0 They are loudly active mostly at night, almost always at 4:30am. Often in t= he evenings, but sometimes during the day too. However, I haven't heard the= m in 2 days. Sometimes this happens. =C2=A0 I cannot find any entry points, so I can't observe how they are getting in.= A lot of the roof trim is rotted at the ends, but there is no evidence of = anything in the attic, and I never hear anything in the walls.=20 =C2=A0 In the past, any mice have eventually made it to the basement traps, but no= t this time.=20 =C2=A0 thanks, jim _______________________________________________ =C2=A0 Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive ge@comcast.net =C2=A0 =C2=A0 --_BEE99AFF-ED0D-4AEC-A842-3D52CC63F9D1_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Generally you will find bats enterin= g and leaving in the east, south, or southeast of the structure.=C2=A0 Any = place I saw them entering my house was pretty protected, like a soffit, or = the end of a ridge vent that was not sealed properly.=C2=A0 Droppings can b= e noticed on inside or outside.

I got most of my ed= ucation (and the bat houses that I built) from the Bat Conservancy=E2=80=A6= http://www.batcon.org/, as well as = the =E2=80=98bat man=E2=80=99 that I hired for the exclusion (after I tried= unsuccessfully).

They are good to have around, jus= t not in the attic!

 

Gordie

 

 

 

 

 =

From: Tim .
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 9:11 AM<= br>To: Shop-talk@autox.t= eam.net
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling= ?

 

The t= iming leans towards bats coming and leaving. If you have enough, as one our= neighbors did, you can definitely hear them going in and out. 

 

= "Droppings will be at the entry points"...I sure hope t= his isn't accurate. I have bats in my attic and there are droppings in many= places.....places where, if they were getting in and out, water would= be as well. 

 <= /p>

tim

 

<= b>From: = Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Gordie Bird= <mg_garage@comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 5, 2016 7:30 = PM
To: Jim Franklin; Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Subject: = Re: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling?

 <= o:p>

Sounds like bats to me.  Only need a gap the size of a dime to get in= .   Droppings will be at the entry points.  If it is warm wh= ere you are at, you may be able to see them come or go after dusk or just b= efore dawn.

Since th= ey are protected, you must exclude them rather than kill them.

Took nearly 2 yrs to get them out= of my attic. 

=  

Good luck,

Gordie=

 

 

 

&nb= sp;

 

=  

I've= searched the Internet, but all answers seem to require that I actually see= evidence, and I don't. It's in the ceiling between floors. No droppings an= ywhere. I hear little feet like mice skittering across the ceiling, and a g= reat big ruckus like two squirrels chasing each other, moving quickly in th= e 3/4" space created by the strapping between joists and sheetrock.

 

They are loudly active mostly at nig= ht, almost always at 4:30am. Often in the evenings, but sometimes during th= e day too. However, I haven't heard them in 2 days. Sometimes this happens.=

 

I cannot find any entry points, so= I can't observe how they are getting in. A lot of the roof trim is rotted = at the ends, but there is no evidence of anything in the attic, and I never= hear anything in the walls.

 

In th= e past, any mice have eventually made it to the basement traps, but not thi= s time.

 <= /o:p>

thanks,<= /p>

jim

_______________________________________________

 

<= p style=3D'background:white'>Shop-talk@autox.team.net<= /p>

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html=

Suggested annual don= ation  $12.96

Ar= chive: http://www.team.net/archive

Forums: http://www.team.net/forums

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailm= an/options/shop-talk/mg_garage@comcast.net

 

 

= &= nbsp;

= --_BEE99AFF-ED0D-4AEC-A842-3D52CC63F9D1_-- --_D38C140D-35EB-4F04-B498-B2FF1D429BAC_ Content-ID: image002.png@01D18FF2.9309B6C0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="B4E9CE6A5DDC4A58B4293A368AEFA0B5.png" iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAArYAAAACCAYAAAHawK8wAAAAAXNSR0IArs4c6QAAAARnQU1BAACx jwv8YQUAAAAJcEhZcwAADsMAAA7DAcdvqGQAAAA6SURBVEhL7dTBDQAQFANQ+w/FAizALp8FHEVC 3uFdemyaptLGzLUH56VdyBnK5TlGC3CBswUA4AM9FmnMWGsiOYyhAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC --_D38C140D-35EB-4F04-B498-B2FF1D429BAC_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --_D38C140D-35EB-4F04-B498-B2FF1D429BAC_-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 6 15:37:35 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C24572588AC9 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 15:37:35 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from BAY004-OMC1S5.hotmail.com (bay004-omc1s5.hotmail.com [65.54.190.16]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4C0E2588B27 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 11:16:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from NAM01-BY2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com ([65.54.190.59]) by BAY004-OMC1S5.hotmail.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.23008); Wed, 6 Apr 2016 10:23:59 -0700 Received: from BY2NAM01FT018.eop-nam01.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.68.54) by BY2NAM01HT181.eop-nam01.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.68.222) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.453.6; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 17:23:58 +0000 Received: from DM3PR13MB0538.namprd13.prod.outlook.com (10.152.68.51) by BY2NAM01FT018.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.69.210) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.453.6 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 17:23:57 +0000 Received: from DM3PR13MB0538.namprd13.prod.outlook.com ([10.164.8.24]) by DM3PR13MB0538.namprd13.prod.outlook.com ([10.164.8.24]) with mapi id 15.01.0453.027; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 17:23:56 +0000 From: "Tim ." To: Gordie Bird , "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" Thread-Topic: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling? bat tanget... Thread-Index: AQHRkCkZG1B5PPlE6ECDzZghDlxA9Q== Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 17:23:56 +0000 References: , <20160406070127.AF362258849B@autox.team.net> , Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US authentication-results: spf=softfail (sender IP is 25.152.68.51) header.d=none;comcast.net; dmarc=fail action=none header.from=outlook.com; received-spf: SoftFail (protection.outlook.com: domain of transitioning outlook.com discourages use of 25.152.68.51 as permitted sender) x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-tmn: [ERqDJPXb11NE4dngiIMIkbyeAZABvyw2] x-eopattributedmessage: 0 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:25.152.68.51; IPV:NLI; CTRY:GB; EFV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(98900003); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BY2NAM01HT181; H:DM3PR13MB0538.namprd13.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:SoftFail; MLV:ovrnspm; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: cd00fdae-a6c2-43d9-04bc-08d35e403c20 x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(5061506196)(5061507196); SRVR:BY2NAM01HT181; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(432015012)(102415293)(102615271)(82015046); SRVR:BY2NAM01HT181; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:BY2NAM01HT181; x-forefront-prvs: 0904004ECB FILETIME=[1B06E2B0:01D19029] Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling? bat tanget... Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============7340045967063359859== Content-Language: en-US boundary="_004_DM3PR13MB053899D2925EBED7BE410790B49F0DM3PR13MB0538namp_"; type="multipart/alternative" --_004_DM3PR13MB053899D2925EBED7BE410790B49F0DM3PR13MB0538namp_ boundary="_000_DM3PR13MB053899D2925EBED7BE410790B49F0DM3PR13MB0538namp_" --_000_DM3PR13MB053899D2925EBED7BE410790B49F0DM3PR13MB0538namp_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, WI have something weird going on...ha The neighbor to the east of us had them coming out at least the north side,= the neighbor on the west on at least his east side, and I've seen them com= e out three side of my place. too funny. ________________________________ From: Gordie Bird Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 9:53 AM To: Tim .; Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: RE: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling? Generally you will find bats entering and leaving in the east, south, or so= utheast of the structure. Any place I saw them entering my house was prett= y protected, like a soffit, or the end of a ridge vent that was not sealed = properly. Droppings can be noticed on inside or outside. I got most of my education (and the bat houses that I built) from the Bat C= onservancy... http://www.batcon.org/, as well as the 'bat man' that I hired= for the exclusion (after I tried unsuccessfully). [http://www.batcon.org/images/logo-big.png] Bat Conservation International - BCI www.batcon.org Austin-based group whose mission is to protect and restore bats and their h= abitats worldwide. Includes information about education, conservation effor= ts, articles ... They are good to have around, just not in the attic! Gordie Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 9:11 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling? The timing leans towards bats coming and leaving. If you have enough, as on= e our neighbors did, you can definitely hear them going in and out. "Droppings will be at the entry points"...I sure hope this isn't accurate. = I have bats in my attic and there are droppings in many places.....places w= here, if they were getting in and out, water would be as well. tim From: Shop-talk on behalf of Gordie Bird= Sent: Tuesday, April 5, 2016 7:30 PM To: Jim Franklin; Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling? Sounds like bats to me. Only need a gap the size of a dime to get in. Dr= oppings will be at the entry points. If it is warm where you are at, you m= ay be able to see them come or go after dusk or just before dawn. Since they are protected, you must exclude them rather than kill them. Took nearly 2 yrs to get them out of my attic. Good luck, Gordie Sent: Tuesday, April 5, 2016 6:42 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling? I've searched the Internet, but all answers seem to require that I actually= see evidence, and I don't. It's in the ceiling between floors. No dropping= s anywhere. I hear little feet like mice skittering across the ceiling, and= a great big ruckus like two squirrels chasing each other, moving quickly i= n the 3/4" space created by the strapping between joists and sheetrock. They are loudly active mostly at night, almost always at 4:30am. Often in t= he evenings, but sometimes during the day too. However, I haven't heard the= m in 2 days. Sometimes this happens. I cannot find any entry points, so I can't observe how they are getting in.= A lot of the roof trim is rotted at the ends, but there is no evidence of = anything in the attic, and I never hear anything in the walls. In the past, any mice have eventually made it to the basement traps, but no= t this time. thanks, jim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive ge@comcast.net --_000_DM3PR13MB053899D2925EBED7BE410790B49F0DM3PR13MB0538namp_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Well, WI have something weird going on...ha


The neighbor to the east of us had them coming out at least the nor= th side, the neighbor on the west on at least his east side, and I've = seen them come out three side of my place. too funny. 



From: Gordie Bird <mg_ga= rage@comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 9:53 AM
To: Tim .; Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Subject: RE: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling?
 

Generally you will find bats entering and leaving in the east, south, or so= utheast of the structure.  Any place I saw them entering my house was = pretty protected, like a soffit, or the end of a ridge vent that was not se= aled properly.  Droppings can be noticed on inside or outside.

I got most of my education (and the bat houses that I built) from the Bat C= onservancy… http://www.batcon.org/, as well as the ‘bat man’ that I hir= ed for the exclusion (after I tried unsuccessfully).
www.batcon.org
Austin-based group whose mission is to protect and restore bats and their h= abitats worldwide. Includes information about education, conservation effor= ts, articles ...

They are good to have around, just not in the attic!

 

Gordie

 

 

 

 

 

From: Tim .
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 9:11 AM
To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling?

 

The timing leans towards bats coming and leaving= . If you have enough, as one our neighbors did, you can definitely hear the= m going in and out. 

 

"Droppings will be at= the entry points"...I sure hope this isn't accurate. I have bats in my attic and there are droppings in many places.....places where, if th= ey were getting in and out, water would be as well. 

 

tim

 

From:= Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Gordie Bir= d <mg_garage@comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 5, 2016 7:30 PM
To: Jim Franklin; Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling?

 

Sounds like bats to me.  = Only need a gap the size of a dime to get in.   Droppings will be= at the entry points.  If it is warm where you are at, you may be able to see them come or go after dusk or just before dawn.

Since they are protected, you = must exclude them rather than kill them.

Took nearly 2 yrs to get them = out of my attic. 

 

Good luck,

Gordie

 

 

 

 

 

From: Jim Franklin
Sent: Tuesday, April 5, 2016 6:42 PM
To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Subject: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling?

 

I've searched the Internet, bu= t all answers seem to require that I actually see evidence, and I don't. It= 's in the ceiling between floors. No droppings anywhere. I hear little feet like mice skittering across the ceiling, and = a great big ruckus like two squirrels chasing each other, moving quickly in= the 3/4" space created by the strapping between joists and sheetrock.

 

They are loudly active mostly = at night, almost always at 4:30am. Often in the evenings, but sometimes dur= ing the day too. However, I haven't heard them in 2 days. Sometimes this happens.

 

I cannot find any entry points= , so I can't observe how they are getting in. A lot of the roof trim is rot= ted at the ends, but there is no evidence of anything in the attic, and I never hear anything in the walls.

 

In the past, any mice have eve= ntually made it to the basement traps, but not this time.

 

thanks,

jim

______________________________= _________________

 

Shop-talk@autox.team.net

Donate: http://www.team.net/do= nate.html

Suggested annual donation = ; $12.96

Archive: http://www.team.net/a= rchive

Forums: http://www.team.net/fo= rums

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://aut= ox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mg_garage@comcast.net

 

 

 

--_000_DM3PR13MB053899D2925EBED7BE410790B49F0DM3PR13MB0538namp_-- --_004_DM3PR13MB053899D2925EBED7BE410790B49F0DM3PR13MB0538namp_ Content-Description: B4E9CE6A5DDC4A58B4293A368AEFA0B5.png Content-Disposition: inline; filename="B4E9CE6A5DDC4A58B4293A368AEFA0B5.png"; size=165; creation-date="Wed, 06 Apr 2016 14:53:41 GMT"; modification-date="Wed, 06 Apr 2016 14:53:41 GMT" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAArYAAAACCAYAAAHawK8wAAAAAXNSR0IArs4c6QAAAARnQU1BAACx jwv8YQUAAAAJcEhZcwAADsMAAA7DAcdvqGQAAAA6SURBVEhL7dTBDQAQFANQ+w/FAizALp8FHEVC 3uFdemyaptLGzLUH56VdyBnK5TlGC3CBswUA4AM9FmnMWGsiOYyhAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC --_004_DM3PR13MB053899D2925EBED7BE410790B49F0DM3PR13MB0538namp_-- --===============7340045967063359859== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============7340045967063359859==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 6 15:56:58 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 372462588427 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 15:56:58 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-ch2-11v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-11v.sys.comcast.net [69.252.207.43]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D2D12588B8F for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 11:27:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-08v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.104]) by comcast with SMTP id nrLia2vi3juYRnrLyaWOeF; Wed, 06 Apr 2016 17:34:54 +0000 s=q20140121; t=1459964094; bh=TYIswn1Ds/eLh2vrsu94ZTTRDfWwEnZzVtArA1ONZV0=; h=Received:Received:MIME-Version:To:From:Subject:Date:Content-Type; b=rTH/HO2OQkQCyNCjKZj99jaATBPDlD0+xmUjYPgK0+REnSpPpmgRkg2baT3fh0y3G xm7s6LcKjz3mN7QitbHDa44FGLA+w8WXnDLmB++xQK47zOzgRNvLBidNQFUHOXAeqe lJX9BGSv0ulrNQwjYyKLhEiqV+N1sbjRxTwHC4kn3H89eudIM8p0S2tRaAvtDzUO7t OlWI0pYrftPuoT8Qd19+nq1yydtXxsYUGrYmK7Yfx8DfkqEkI3m0ZlDZNzNrU1zLhj tcQwGHyhLt9cKcEkZxMgFWJtOXvrOVDhtAg5CV525j7pKY5KuAKft77kR3tIGv/F/Y IGebpAO9AuYqg== Received: from [IPv6:::ffff:192.168.1.179] ([68.61.187.195]) by resomta-ch2-08v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id f5au1s0054DNuTG015au1C; Wed, 06 Apr 2016 17:34:54 +0000 To: "Tim ." , "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" From: Gordie Bird Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 13:34:54 -0400 Importance: normal Thread-Topic: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling? bat tanget... References: , <20160406070127.AF362258849B@autox.team.net> , boundary="_63E9C67A-535D-4E90-96EF-AE2BC8DF619E_" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling? bat tanget... Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --_63E9C67A-535D-4E90-96EF-AE2BC8DF619E_ boundary="_FE186964-57B3-4097-837A-A48E75C3537E_" --_FE186964-57B3-4097-837A-A48E75C3537E_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Actually, now that I recall, one of the ridge vent ends I saw them entering= /exiting from was on the north end of my house. I suppose they will use an= y entrance they can to a nice cozy attic! BTW, droppings will usually have sparkles from the insect wings. From: Tim . Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 1:24 PM To: Gordie Bird; Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling? bat tanget... Well, WI have something weird going on...ha The neighbor to the east of us had=C2=A0them coming out at least the north = side, the neighbor on the west on at least=C2=A0his east side, and I've see= n them come out three side of my place. too funny.=C2=A0 From: Gordie Bird Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 9:53 AM To: Tim .; Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: RE: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling?=20 =C2=A0 Generally you will find bats entering and leaving in the east, south, or so= utheast of the structure.=C2=A0 Any place I saw them entering my house was = pretty protected, like a soffit, or the end of a ridge vent that was not se= aled properly.=C2=A0 Droppings can be noticed on inside or outside. I got most of my education (and the bat houses that I built) from the Bat C= onservancy=E2=80=A6 http://www.batcon.org/, as well as the =E2=80=98bat man= =E2=80=99 that I hired for the exclusion (after I tried unsuccessfully). =0DBat Conservation International - BCI www.batcon.org Austin-based group whose mission is to protect and restore bats and their h= abitats worldwide. Includes information about education, conservation effor= ts, articles ...=0D They are good to have around, just not in the attic! =C2=A0 Gordie =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 From: Tim . Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 9:11 AM To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling? =C2=A0 The timing leans towards bats coming and leaving. If you have enough, as on= e our neighbors did, you can definitely hear them going in and out.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 "Droppings will be at the entry points"...I sure hope this isn't accurate. = I have bats in my attic and there are droppings in many places.....places w= here, if they were getting in and out,=C2=A0water would be as well.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 tim =C2=A0 From: Shop-talk on behalf of Gordie Bird= Sent: Tuesday, April 5, 2016 7:30 PM To: Jim Franklin; Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling?=20 =C2=A0 Sounds like bats to me.=C2=A0 Only need a gap the size of a dime to get in.= =C2=A0 =C2=A0Droppings will be at the entry points.=C2=A0 If it is warm whe= re you are at, you may be able to see them come or go after dusk or just be= fore dawn.=20 Since they are protected, you must exclude them rather than kill them. Took nearly 2 yrs to get them out of my attic.=C2=A0=20 =C2=A0 Good luck, Gordie =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 From: Jim Franklin Sent: Tuesday, April 5, 2016 6:42 PM To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling? =C2=A0 I've searched the Internet, but all answers seem to require that I actually= see evidence, and I don't. It's in the ceiling between floors. No dropping= s anywhere. I hear little feet like mice skittering across the ceiling, and= a great big ruckus like two squirrels chasing each other, moving quickly i= n the 3/4" space created by the strapping between joists and sheetrock.=20 =C2=A0 They are loudly active mostly at night, almost always at 4:30am. Often in t= he evenings, but sometimes during the day too. However, I haven't heard the= m in 2 days. Sometimes this happens. =C2=A0 I cannot find any entry points, so I can't observe how they are getting in.= A lot of the roof trim is rotted at the ends, but there is no evidence of = anything in the attic, and I never hear anything in the walls.=20 =C2=A0 In the past, any mice have eventually made it to the basement traps, but no= t this time.=20 =C2=A0 thanks, jim _______________________________________________ =C2=A0 Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive ge@comcast.net =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 --_FE186964-57B3-4097-837A-A48E75C3537E_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Actually, now that I recall, one of = the ridge vent ends I saw them entering/exiting from was on the north end o= f my house. =C2=A0I suppose they will use any entrance they can to a nice c= ozy attic!

BTW, droppings will usually have sparkle= s from the insect wings.

 

 

 <= /o:p>

From: Tim .
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 1:24= PM
To: Gordie Bird;= Shop-talk@autox.team.netSubject: Re: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling? bat tanget.= ..

 

Well= , WI have something weird going on...ha

 

The neighbor to the east of u= s had them coming out at least the north side, the neighbor on the wes= t on at least his east side, and I've seen them come out three side of= my place. too funny. 

 

From: Gordie Bird <mg_ga= rage@comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 9:53 AM
To: Tim .; Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Subject: RE: [Shop-talk]= What animal is in my ceiling?

 

Generally you = will find bats entering and leaving in the east, south, or southeast of the= structure.  Any place I saw them entering my house was pretty protect= ed, like a soffit, or the end of a ridge vent that was not sealed properly.=   Droppings can be noticed on inside or outside.

=

I got most of my education (and the bat ho= uses that I built) from the Bat Conservancy=E2=80=A6 http://www.batcon.org/, as well as the = =E2=80=98bat man=E2=80=99 that I hired for the exclusion (after I tried uns= uccessfully).

3D"http://www.batcon.o=

Bat Conservation International - BCI

<= /div>

www.batcon.org

=

Austin-based group= whose mission is to protect and restore bats and their habitats worldwide.= Includes information about education, conservation efforts, articles ...

&n= bsp;

They are good to have= around, just not in the attic!

 

Gor= die

 =

 

 

 

<= span style=3D'color:black'> 

<= p style=3D'background:white'>From: Tim .
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, = 2016 9:11 AM
To: Shop= -talk@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] What animal is = in my ceiling?

 

The timing leans towards bats coming and leaving. If you have enough, a= s one our neighbors did, you can definitely hear them going in and out.&nbs= p;

 

"Droppings will be at the entry points"...I su= re hope this isn't accurate. I have bats in my attic and there are dropping= s in many places.....places where, if they were getting in and out, wa= ter would be as well. 

 =

tim

 

From:<= span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black= '> Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Gordie B= ird <mg_garage@comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 5, 2016 7:= 30 PM
To: Jim Franklin; Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling?

<= div>

 

=

Sounds like bats to me.  Only ne= ed a gap the size of a dime to get in.   Droppings will be at the= entry points.  If it is warm where you are at, you may be able to see= them come or go after dusk or just before dawn.

Since they are protected, you must exclude them rathe= r than kill them.

Took nea= rly 2 yrs to get them out of my attic. 

 

Goo= d luck,=

Gordie

 

 

 

 

 

= From: Jim Fra= nklin
Sent: Tuesday, April 5, 2016 6:42 PM
To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net
= Subject: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling?

=

 

<= span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black= '>I've searched the Internet, but all answers seem to require that I actual= ly see evidence, and I don't. It's in the ceiling between floors. No droppi= ngs anywhere. I hear little feet like mice skittering across the ceiling, a= nd a great big ruckus like two squirrels chasing each other, moving quickly= in the 3/4" space created by the strapping between joists and sheetro= ck.

 

They are loudly active mostly at night, almo= st always at 4:30am. Often in the evenings, but sometimes during the day to= o. However, I haven't heard them in 2 days. Sometimes this happens.<= span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>

 

I cannot find any entry points, so I can't observe how t= hey are getting in. A lot of the roof trim is rotted at the ends, but there= is no evidence of anything in the attic, and I never hear anything in the = walls. =

 

In the past, any mice have eventually mad= e it to the basement traps, but not this time.

 

t= hanks,<= o:p>

jim

_____________________________________________= __=

 

Shop-talk@autox.team.net

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html

Suggested annual donation  $12.= 96=

Archive: http://www.team.= net/archive

Forums: http://w= ww.team.net/forums

Unsubscr= ibe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mg_garage@comca= st.net<= o:p>

 

=

 

&n= bsp;

 =

= --_FE186964-57B3-4097-837A-A48E75C3537E_-- --_63E9C67A-535D-4E90-96EF-AE2BC8DF619E_ Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="B4E9CE6A5DDC4A58B4293A368AEFA0B5.png" iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAArYAAAACCAYAAAHawK8wAAAAAXNSR0IArs4c6QAAAARnQU1BAACx jwv8YQUAAAAJcEhZcwAADsMAAA7DAcdvqGQAAAA6SURBVEhL7dTBDQAQFANQ+w/FAizALp8FHEVC 3uFdemyaptLGzLUH56VdyBnK5TlGC3CBswUA4AM9FmnMWGsiOYyhAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC --_63E9C67A-535D-4E90-96EF-AE2BC8DF619E_ Content-ID: image003.png@01D19009.19E0BFC0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="9F7FE2AA36C6474F9340363E9B527D70.png" iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAArYAAAACCAYAAAHawK8wAAAAAXNSR0IArs4c6QAAAARnQU1BAACx jwv8YQUAAAAJcEhZcwAADsMAAA7DAcdvqGQAAAA6SURBVEhL7dTBDQAQFANQ+w/FAizALp8FHEVC 3uFdemyaptLGzLUH56VdyBnK5TlGC3CBswUA4AM9FmnMWGsiOYyhAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC --_63E9C67A-535D-4E90-96EF-AE2BC8DF619E_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --_63E9C67A-535D-4E90-96EF-AE2BC8DF619E_-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 6 19:06:15 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB03C25884FF for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 19:06:14 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qg0-f51.google.com (mail-qg0-f51.google.com [209.85.192.51]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 256032588140 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 14:28:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-qg0-f51.google.com with SMTP id f105so22643287qge.2 for ; Wed, 06 Apr 2016 13:36:39 -0700 (PDT) h=from:content-transfer-encoding:subject:message-id:date:to :mime-version; bh=2qGLdrcz5Sg2Cq+umcITQ1S4jtnMWyRv+9blg/zJ8hg=; b=kVcJS11FuuuhhrA6Of8VIclSP/iTgxfYEFo2apRBeTaf44MIanqP7Fd0e/hWhJssz8 gb9X3mV866gbi3oDPGRIw6T7yUoujsMsvfSbuospi6wBph6tJkAAl3bq6KbnjP/CscdX wb8eoNhYUTvsvvP9jv5YT4Ub9E4pERH+rKGYCkdQN3FOm0aTC89GO6FyK4Ttj39kNKf+ vvfQUSk6P17EgEmy5W27t2Q1qlzIm85WIFzwyWjwxYqOVZUchE2yjHp5E/DpRG+OemEG kVm0+/zeBRdRdLkIEDfgXCzuDGlSLbKs79v2EC5b0uMpoHREChVJ5xKPeWIQTJjBoo0M ZUQg== d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-transfer-encoding:subject :message-id:date:to:mime-version; bh=2qGLdrcz5Sg2Cq+umcITQ1S4jtnMWyRv+9blg/zJ8hg=; b=eYEbZF1c667QErpHxVscgP/3Tgj8AJgfuTYKSud+btqxc4xPeQZNqpmpIfOSIhobPN EQpyj7rtaSpuM6XmdDP+eX+cTRcG/XMLumxII0YinDEUbFtfHRHO1VjOCo8YBXA+fAr2 3cpr7pE+rQcOexvwqMUWWYUZ/e8Sg5LRBPeT4LpXo4Nms3wiPfd84vW/EUVuUtmlBsA9 tky6jL0Qja01131WQajdN+hB8PSUwT3t26SJVIn9CpU73WD6d0QP9EtNCfgBMVk0cZrv 113U+cIU902NoO8rWvOQqX/7+JIN5qNQWNXdTo6uBkpHlGxEQNBjuHtPJOglHETVKUmc 6xYQ== Wed, 06 Apr 2016 13:36:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.124] (ool-457e068c.dyn.optonline.net. [69.126.6.140]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k7sm2019995qgd.8.2016.04.06.13.36.27 for (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 06 Apr 2016 13:36:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 16:36:25 -0400 To: Shop Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] Wooden deck restoration paints Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net T3VyIGhvdXNlIChlYXN0ZXJuIExvbmcgSXNsYW5kKSBoYXMgYSAxMuKAmSB4IDMw4oCZIHdvb2Rl biBkZWNrIG9uIHRoZSBiYWNrLiAgSXQgY2FtZSB3aXRoIHRoZSBob3VzZSBzbyB3ZSBkb27igJl0 IGtub3cgaXRzIGFnZSwgYnV0IGl0IGlzIGZhciBmcm9tIG5ldy4gIEl0IHdpbGwgbmVlZCB0byBi ZSByZXBsYWNlZCBldmVudHVhbGx5LCBidXQgd2XigJlkIGxpa2UgdG8gZ2V0IGF0IGxlYXN0IGEg ZmV3IG1vcmUgeWVhcnMgb3V0IG9mIGl0LiAgUGx1cywgb3VyIDEgeWVhciBvbGQgZ3JhbmRkYXVn aHRlciB3aWxsIGJlIHdhbGtpbmcgYW5kIGNyYXdsaW5nIG9uIGl0IHRoaXMgc3VtbWVyLCBzbyBJ 4oCZZCBsaWtlIHRvIGRvIHdoYXQgSSBjYW4gdG8gYm90aCBwcmVzZXJ2ZSB0aGUgd29vZCBhbmQg aGVyIGZlZXQgYW5kIGtuZWVzLiAgSSBwbGFubmVkIG9uIHVzaW5nIG9uZSBvZiB0aGUgdGhpY2sg cGFpbnQgcHJvZHVjdHMgbWFkZSBmb3IgdGhpcyBwdXJwb3NlLCBidXQgbW9zdCBvZiB0aGUgcmV2 aWV3cyBvbiB0aGVtIGFyZSBwcmV0dHkgbG91c3kuICBSdXN0b2xldW0gUmVzdG9yZSBpcyBwcm9i YWJseSB0aGUgd29yc3QgYWNjb3JkaW5nIHRvIEFtYXpvbiwgSG9tZSBEZXBvdCBhbmQgTG93ZeKA mXMgY3VzdG9tZXJzIC0gcG9zc2libHkgdGhlIHdvcnN0IEkgaGF2ZSBldmVyIHNlZW4gZm9yIGFu eSBwcm9kdWN0LiAgT3RoZXIgYnJhbmRzIGxpa2UgQmVociwgT2x5bXBpYyBhbmQgQW52aWwgaGF2 ZSBnZW5lcmFsbHkgYmV0dGVyIHJldmlld3MsIGJ1dCBtYW55LCBtYW55IGN1c3RvbWVycyBzdGls bCBjb21wbGFpbiBhYm91dCBsaWZ0aW5nIGFuZCBwZWVsaW5nIHdpdGhpbiBhIHllYXIgb2YgaW5z dGFsbGF0aW9uLiAgSSBrbm93IGhvdyBjcml0aWNhbCBwcmVwYXJhdGlvbiBpcyBvbiBhIHByb2R1 Y3QgbGlrZSB0aGlzLCBidXQgdmlydHVhbGx5IGFsbCBjb21wbGFpbnRzIHNlZW0gdG8gaW5jbHVk ZSBhIHN0YXRlbWVudCBhYm91dCBoYXZpbmcgZm9sbG93ZWQgdGhlIGRpcmVjdGlvbnMgZXhhY3Rs eS4gIFN0aWxsLCBJ4oCZZCByYXRoZXIgaGVhciB0aGF0IGZyb20gc29tZW9uZSBJIHRydXN0LiAg RG9lcyBhbnlvbmUgaGVyZSBoYXZlIGFueSBleHBlcmllbmNlIHdpdGggb25lIG9mIHRoZXNlIHBy b2R1Y3RzPyAKClRoYW5rcywKCkppbQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fXwoKU2hvcC10YWxrQGF1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0CkRvbmF0ZTogaHR0cDovL3d3 dy50ZWFtLm5ldC9kb25hdGUuaHRtbApTdWdnZXN0ZWQgYW5udWFsIGRvbmF0aW9uICAkMTIuOTYK QXJjaGl2ZTogaHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWFtLm5ldC9hcmNoaXZlCkZvcnVtczogaHR0cDovL3d3dy50 ZWFtLm5ldC9mb3J1bXMKVW5zdWJzY3JpYmUvTWFuYWdlOiBodHRwOi8vYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQv bWFpbG1hbi9vcHRpb25zL3Nob3AtdGFsay9taGFyY0BhdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldAoK From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 7 00:41:01 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1F042584539 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 00:41:01 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from qopa.pair.com (qopa.pair.com [209.68.5.147]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C02052587EF1 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 19:27:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AMILAPTOP3 (pool-72-65-56-81.bflony.fios.verizon.net [72.65.56.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by qopa.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 85EA3F1DD7; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 21:35:04 -0400 (EDT) From: "Tony Vaccaro" To: "'Jim Stone'" <1789alpine@gmail.com>, "Shop Talk" References: <66FE53CB-6D09-44D4-BD81-21E3AB6FDE86@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 21:35:05 -0400 Thread-Index: AQHRkGtAaZ+5xlgbh0u/Nw4xH9r1gp99uWmw Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Wooden deck restoration paints Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net V2UgdXNlZCB0aGUgU2hlcndpbiBXaWxsaWFtcyBwcm9kdWN0IHRoaXMgbGFzdCBzdW1tZXIuIEkg Y2Fubm90IGdpdmUgeW91IGxvbmcgdGVybSByZXN1bHRzIGFzIHdlIGhhdmUgbm90IGhhZCBpdCBs b25nIGJ1dCBpdCBoYXMgZG9uZSB3ZWxsIG92ZXIgdGhlIHdpbnRlci4KCkhvdyB3ZSBjYW1lIHRv IHVzZSBpdCB3YXMgdG8gcG9zdCBvbiBSZWRkaXQuY29tIGFuZCBhc2sgZm9yIHNvbWUgZXhwZXJ0 cy4gIFdlIGhhZCB0d28gcGVvcGxlIHRoYXQgZG8gdGhpcyBhbGwgdGhlIHRpbWUgcmVjb21tZW5k IHRoaXMgcHJvZHVjdC4gSSB0aGluayBpdCBpcyBjYWxsZWQgRGVjayBSZXN0b3JlLgoKRGVjayBp cyB2ZXJ5IHNtb290aC4gU28gZmFyIHNvIGdvb2QuCgpUb255IFZhY2Nhcm8Kd3d3LmxvdHVzb3du ZXJzLmNvbQoKLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0KRnJvbTogU2hvcC10YWxrIFttYWls dG86c2hvcC10YWxrLWJvdW5jZXNAYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXRdIE9uIEJlaGFsZiBPZiBKaW0gU3Rv bmUKU2VudDogV2VkbmVzZGF5LCBBcHJpbCA2LCAyMDE2IDQ6MzYgUE0KVG86IFNob3AgVGFsayA8 c2hvcC10YWxrQEF1dG94LlRlYW0uTmV0PgpTdWJqZWN0OiBbU2hvcC10YWxrXSBXb29kZW4gZGVj ayByZXN0b3JhdGlvbiBwYWludHMKCk91ciBob3VzZSAoZWFzdGVybiBMb25nIElzbGFuZCkgaGFz IGEgMTLigJkgeCAzMOKAmSB3b29kZW4gZGVjayBvbiB0aGUgYmFjay4gIEl0IGNhbWUgd2l0aCB0 aGUgaG91c2Ugc28gd2UgZG9u4oCZdCBrbm93IGl0cyBhZ2UsIGJ1dCBpdCBpcyBmYXIgZnJvbSBu ZXcuICBJdCB3aWxsIG5lZWQgdG8gYmUgcmVwbGFjZWQgZXZlbnR1YWxseSwgYnV0IHdl4oCZZCBs aWtlIHRvIGdldCBhdCBsZWFzdCBhIGZldyBtb3JlIHllYXJzIG91dCBvZiBpdC4gIFBsdXMsIG91 ciAxIHllYXIgb2xkIGdyYW5kZGF1Z2h0ZXIgd2lsbCBiZSB3YWxraW5nIGFuZCBjcmF3bGluZyBv biBpdCB0aGlzIHN1bW1lciwgc28gSeKAmWQgbGlrZSB0byBkbyB3aGF0IEkgY2FuIHRvIGJvdGgg cHJlc2VydmUgdGhlIHdvb2QgYW5kIGhlciBmZWV0IGFuZCBrbmVlcy4gIEkgcGxhbm5lZCBvbiB1 c2luZyBvbmUgb2YgdGhlIHRoaWNrIHBhaW50IHByb2R1Y3RzIG1hZGUgZm9yIHRoaXMgcHVycG9z ZSwgYnV0IG1vc3Qgb2YgdGhlIHJldmlld3Mgb24gdGhlbSBhcmUgcHJldHR5IGxvdXN5LiAgUnVz dG9sZXVtIFJlc3RvcmUgaXMgcHJvYmFibHkgdGhlIHdvcnN0IGFjY29yZGluZyB0byBBbWF6b24s IEhvbWUgRGVwb3QgYW5kIExvd2XigJlzIGN1c3RvbWVycyAtIHBvc3NpYmx5IHRoZSB3b3JzdCBJ IGhhdmUgZXZlciBzZWVuIGZvciBhbnkgcHJvZHVjdC4gIE90aGVyIGJyYW5kcyBsaWtlIEJlaHIs IE9seW1waWMgYW5kIEFudmlsIGhhdmUgZ2VuZXJhbGx5IGJldHRlciByZXZpZXdzLCBidXQgbWFu eSwgbWFueSBjdXN0b21lcnMgc3RpbGwgY29tcGxhaW4gYWJvdXQgbGlmdGluZyBhbmQgcGVlbGlu ZyB3aXRoaW4gYSB5ZWFyIG9mIGluc3RhbGxhdGlvbi4gIEkga25vdyBob3cgY3JpdGljYWwgcHJl cGFyYXRpb24gaXMgb24gYSBwcm9kdWN0IGxpa2UgdGhpcywgYnV0IHZpcnR1YWxseSBhbGwgY29t cGxhaW50cyBzZWVtIHRvIGluY2x1ZGUgYSBzdGF0ZW1lbnQgYWJvdXQgaGF2aW5nIGZvbGxvd2Vk IHRoZSBkaXJlY3Rpb25zIGV4YWN0bHkuICBTdGlsbCwgSeKAmWQgcmF0aGVyIGhlYXIgdGhhdCBm cm9tIHNvbWVvbmUgSSB0cnVzdC4gIERvZXMgYW55b25lIGhlcmUgaGF2ZSBhbnkgZXhwZXJpZW5j ZSB3aXRoIG9uZSBvZiB0aGVzZSBwcm9kdWN0cz8gCgpUaGFua3MsCgpKaW0KX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KClNob3AtdGFsa0BhdXRveC50ZWFt Lm5ldApEb25hdGU6IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cudGVhbS5uZXQvZG9uYXRlLmh0bWwKU3VnZ2VzdGVkIGFu bnVhbCBkb25hdGlvbiAgJDEyLjk2CkFyY2hpdmU6IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cudGVhbS5uZXQvYXJjaGl2 ZQpGb3J1bXM6IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cudGVhbS5uZXQvZm9ydW1zClVuc3Vic2NyaWJlL01hbmFnZTog aHR0cDovL2F1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0L21haWxtYW4vb3B0aW9ucy9zaG9wLXRhbGsvdHZhY2NAbG90 dXNvd25lcnMuY29tCgoKX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX18KClNob3AtdGFsa0BhdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldApEb25hdGU6IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cudGVhbS5u ZXQvZG9uYXRlLmh0bWwKU3VnZ2VzdGVkIGFubnVhbCBkb25hdGlvbiAgJDEyLjk2CkFyY2hpdmU6 IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cudGVhbS5uZXQvYXJjaGl2ZQpGb3J1bXM6IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cudGVhbS5uZXQv Zm9ydW1zClVuc3Vic2NyaWJlL01hbmFnZTogaHR0cDovL2F1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0L21haWxtYW4v b3B0aW9ucy9zaG9wLXRhbGsvbWhhcmNAYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQKCg== From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 7 00:58:39 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0B5E2586EC1 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 00:58:39 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from qopa.pair.com (qopa.pair.com [209.68.5.147]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3144C2588062 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 19:30:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AMILAPTOP3 (pool-72-65-56-81.bflony.fios.verizon.net [72.65.56.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by qopa.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B5EF7F1DD7; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 21:38:05 -0400 (EDT) From: "Tony Vaccaro" To: "'Jim Stone'" <1789alpine@gmail.com>, "'Shop Talk'" References: <66FE53CB-6D09-44D4-BD81-21E3AB6FDE86@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 21:38:06 -0400 Thread-Index: AQHRkGtAaZ+5xlgbh0u/Nw4xH9r1gp99uWmwgAABsYA= Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Wooden deck restoration paints Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net SSBmb3Jnb3QgdG8gbWVudGlvbiB3ZSBhcmUgaW4gQnVmZmFsbyBOWS4gV2UgaGFkIGEgbWlsZSB3 aW50ZXIgdGhpcyB5ZWFyIGhvd2V2ZXIuIEJ1dCBvdXIgZGVjayBpcyAzNSB5ZWFycyBvbGQuICAK ClRvbnkgVgoKLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0KRnJvbTogVG9ueSBWYWNjYXJvIFtt YWlsdG86dHZhY2NAbG90dXNvd25lcnMuY29tXSAKU2VudDogV2VkbmVzZGF5LCBBcHJpbCA2LCAy MDE2IDk6MzUgUE0KVG86ICdKaW0gU3RvbmUnIDwxNzg5YWxwaW5lQGdtYWlsLmNvbT47IFNob3Ag VGFsayA8c2hvcC10YWxrQEF1dG94LlRlYW0uTmV0PgpTdWJqZWN0OiBSRTogW1Nob3AtdGFsa10g V29vZGVuIGRlY2sgcmVzdG9yYXRpb24gcGFpbnRzCgpXZSB1c2VkIHRoZSBTaGVyd2luIFdpbGxp YW1zIHByb2R1Y3QgdGhpcyBsYXN0IHN1bW1lci4gSSBjYW5ub3QgZ2l2ZSB5b3UgbG9uZyB0ZXJt IHJlc3VsdHMgYXMgd2UgaGF2ZSBub3QgaGFkIGl0IGxvbmcgYnV0IGl0IGhhcyBkb25lIHdlbGwg b3ZlciB0aGUgd2ludGVyLgoKSG93IHdlIGNhbWUgdG8gdXNlIGl0IHdhcyB0byBwb3N0IG9uIFJl ZGRpdC5jb20gYW5kIGFzayBmb3Igc29tZSBleHBlcnRzLiAgV2UgaGFkIHR3byBwZW9wbGUgdGhh dCBkbyB0aGlzIGFsbCB0aGUgdGltZSByZWNvbW1lbmQgdGhpcyBwcm9kdWN0LiBJIHRoaW5rIGl0 IGlzIGNhbGxlZCBEZWNrIFJlc3RvcmUuCgpEZWNrIGlzIHZlcnkgc21vb3RoLiBTbyBmYXIgc28g Z29vZC4KClRvbnkgVmFjY2Fybwp3d3cubG90dXNvd25lcnMuY29tCgotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1l c3NhZ2UtLS0tLQpGcm9tOiBTaG9wLXRhbGsgW21haWx0bzpzaG9wLXRhbGstYm91bmNlc0BhdXRv eC50ZWFtLm5ldF0gT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mIEppbSBTdG9uZQpTZW50OiBXZWRuZXNkYXksIEFwcmls IDYsIDIwMTYgNDozNiBQTQpUbzogU2hvcCBUYWxrIDxzaG9wLXRhbGtAQXV0b3guVGVhbS5OZXQ+ ClN1YmplY3Q6IFtTaG9wLXRhbGtdIFdvb2RlbiBkZWNrIHJlc3RvcmF0aW9uIHBhaW50cwoKT3Vy IGhvdXNlIChlYXN0ZXJuIExvbmcgSXNsYW5kKSBoYXMgYSAxMuKAmSB4IDMw4oCZIHdvb2RlbiBk ZWNrIG9uIHRoZSBiYWNrLiAgSXQgY2FtZSB3aXRoIHRoZSBob3VzZSBzbyB3ZSBkb27igJl0IGtu b3cgaXRzIGFnZSwgYnV0IGl0IGlzIGZhciBmcm9tIG5ldy4gIEl0IHdpbGwgbmVlZCB0byBiZSBy ZXBsYWNlZCBldmVudHVhbGx5LCBidXQgd2XigJlkIGxpa2UgdG8gZ2V0IGF0IGxlYXN0IGEgZmV3 IG1vcmUgeWVhcnMgb3V0IG9mIGl0LiAgUGx1cywgb3VyIDEgeWVhciBvbGQgZ3JhbmRkYXVnaHRl ciB3aWxsIGJlIHdhbGtpbmcgYW5kIGNyYXdsaW5nIG9uIGl0IHRoaXMgc3VtbWVyLCBzbyBJ4oCZ ZCBsaWtlIHRvIGRvIHdoYXQgSSBjYW4gdG8gYm90aCBwcmVzZXJ2ZSB0aGUgd29vZCBhbmQgaGVy IGZlZXQgYW5kIGtuZWVzLiAgSSBwbGFubmVkIG9uIHVzaW5nIG9uZSBvZiB0aGUgdGhpY2sgcGFp bnQgcHJvZHVjdHMgbWFkZSBmb3IgdGhpcyBwdXJwb3NlLCBidXQgbW9zdCBvZiB0aGUgcmV2aWV3 cyBvbiB0aGVtIGFyZSBwcmV0dHkgbG91c3kuICBSdXN0b2xldW0gUmVzdG9yZSBpcyBwcm9iYWJs eSB0aGUgd29yc3QgYWNjb3JkaW5nIHRvIEFtYXpvbiwgSG9tZSBEZXBvdCBhbmQgTG93ZeKAmXMg Y3VzdG9tZXJzIC0gcG9zc2libHkgdGhlIHdvcnN0IEkgaGF2ZSBldmVyIHNlZW4gZm9yIGFueSBw cm9kdWN0LiAgT3RoZXIgYnJhbmRzIGxpa2UgQmVociwgT2x5bXBpYyBhbmQgQW52aWwgaGF2ZSBn ZW5lcmFsbHkgYmV0dGVyIHJldmlld3MsIGJ1dCBtYW55LCBtYW55IGN1c3RvbWVycyBzdGlsbCBj b21wbGFpbiBhYm91dCBsaWZ0aW5nIGFuZCBwZWVsaW5nIHdpdGhpbiBhIHllYXIgb2YgaW5zdGFs bGF0aW9uLiAgSSBrbm93IGhvdyBjcml0aWNhbCBwcmVwYXJhdGlvbiBpcyBvbiBhIHByb2R1Y3Qg bGlrZSB0aGlzLCBidXQgdmlydHVhbGx5IGFsbCBjb21wbGFpbnRzIHNlZW0gdG8gaW5jbHVkZSBh IHN0YXRlbWVudCBhYm91dCBoYXZpbmcgZm9sbG93ZWQgdGhlIGRpcmVjdGlvbnMgZXhhY3RseS4g IFN0aWxsLCBJ4oCZZCByYXRoZXIgaGVhciB0aGF0IGZyb20gc29tZW9uZSBJIHRydXN0LiAgRG9l cyBhbnlvbmUgaGVyZSBoYXZlIGFueSBleHBlcmllbmNlIHdpdGggb25lIG9mIHRoZXNlIHByb2R1 Y3RzPyAKClRoYW5rcywKCkppbQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fXwoKU2hvcC10YWxrQGF1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0CkRvbmF0ZTogaHR0cDovL3d3dy50 ZWFtLm5ldC9kb25hdGUuaHRtbApTdWdnZXN0ZWQgYW5udWFsIGRvbmF0aW9uICAkMTIuOTYKQXJj aGl2ZTogaHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWFtLm5ldC9hcmNoaXZlCkZvcnVtczogaHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWFt Lm5ldC9mb3J1bXMKVW5zdWJzY3JpYmUvTWFuYWdlOiBodHRwOi8vYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQvbWFp bG1hbi9vcHRpb25zL3Nob3AtdGFsay90dmFjY0Bsb3R1c293bmVycy5jb20KCgpfX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXwoKU2hvcC10YWxrQGF1dG94LnRl YW0ubmV0CkRvbmF0ZTogaHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWFtLm5ldC9kb25hdGUuaHRtbApTdWdnZXN0ZWQg YW5udWFsIGRvbmF0aW9uICAkMTIuOTYKQXJjaGl2ZTogaHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWFtLm5ldC9hcmNo aXZlCkZvcnVtczogaHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWFtLm5ldC9mb3J1bXMKVW5zdWJzY3JpYmUvTWFuYWdl OiBodHRwOi8vYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQvbWFpbG1hbi9vcHRpb25zL3Nob3AtdGFsay9taGFyY0Bh dXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldAoK From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 7 01:39:39 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34A1C25885D4 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 01:39:39 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from outbound-mail02.vgs.untd.com (outbound-mail02.vgs.untd.com [64.136.55.36]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 5849F2588614 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 19:52:08 -0600 (MDT) s=alpha; t=1459994400; bh=47DEQpj8HBSa+/TImW+5JCeuQeRkm5NMpJWZG3hSuFU=; l=0; h=Subject:To:From:Message-ID:Date:Content-Type; b=q4hlmGftEdu7Kz9HZdcMwI6htDb4ZMgsVBqSWy0zJaLRXmFwAcGPxtWS04lmFX6Wh 8Dqji6DYsOO/Mx/fBJOF6Tmxw3pr7Mosd0cimWdqVx9n/u6++c9EJ7snjIZz92QVgl jeFveZooLeVJonBtEJXpnp5JUPTE0ge04Ak58oy8= Received: from iMac-de-Scott-2.local (206-55-187-149.usiwireless.com [206.55.187.149]) by smtpout03.vgs.untd.com with SMTP id AABMSMR2PAEYNU72 for (sender ); Wed, 6 Apr 2016 18:59:41 -0700 (PDT) To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <036201d18f91$17665f70$46331e50$@com> From: Scott Ryan Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 20:59:38 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I have had bats before, and they make an amazing amount of noise. Although I am not sure they could get across the ceiling that fast, and you should have some evidence in the attic. And they certainly don't need much to get in. Good luck! Scott R -----Original Message----- From: Shop-talk [mailto:shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jim Franklin Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2016 7:45 AM To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] What animal is in my ceiling? I've searched the Internet, but all answers seem to require that I actually see evidence, and I don't. It's in the ceiling between floors. No droppings anywhere. I hear little feet like mice skittering across the ceiling, and a great big ruckus like two squirrels chasing each other, moving quickly in the 3/4" space created by the strapping between joists and sheetrock. They are loudly active mostly at night, almost always at 4:30am. Often in the evenings, but sometimes during the day too. However, I haven't heard them in 2 days. Sometimes this happens. I cannot find any entry points, so I can't observe how they are getting in. A lot of the roof trim is rotted at the ends, but there is no evidence of anythingin the attic, and I never hear anything in the walls. In the past, any mice have eventually made it to the basement traps, but not this time. thanks, jim ____________________________________________________________ Wall Street Daily Peter Schiff: China Just Armed its Financial Missile http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/5705bf0d9d0db3f0b5c96st03vuc _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 7 01:58:22 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D59282584F84 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 01:58:22 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from outbound-mail02.vgs.untd.com (outbound-mail02.vgs.untd.com [64.136.55.36]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 6E2702584F7A for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 20:17:47 -0600 (MDT) t=1459995940; bh=47DEQpj8HBSa+/TImW+5JCeuQeRkm5NMpJWZG3hSuFU=; l=0; h=From:Date:To:Subject:Message-Id:Content-Type; b=O3bueyeJuKShZeNYnb7n7chIXiGVMsaQCuKwPw8gTzxU9NyiT/TEymDAvA3eRlPV9 kovxa0VEn24mebZL7wTI9tMIhQcqZSS+vMeIDxU42kQRA3V3BT2cdCAtZVxeoQrGmS DmOVZsnQwVgkqNLbZHr5FDlz2sHNx5DlvFQ2O+9M= Received: from outbound-bu1.vgs.untd.com (webmail13.vgs.untd.com [10.181.12.153]) by smtpout02.vgs.untd.com with SMTP id AABMSMTHXA7PFTZA for (sender ); Wed, 6 Apr 2016 19:24:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [63.118.178.130] by webmail13.vgs.untd.com with HTTP: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 02:23:31 GMT From: "Matt" Full-Name: "Matt" Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 02:23:31 GMT To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Wooden deck restoration paints Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============1705938514655604989== ----__JWM__J57b4f3f0.1e5ec0a6S.670a85c3M Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Jim, I haven't personally tried the wood coating products but a good fri= end who has lots of experience and who I trust used it and was not the l= east bit pleased after the task. He said he had to do multiple coats an= d the coverage wasn't even close to what was advertised. By the time he = was done he could have almost bought new deck boards. He said it was th= e consistency of peanut butter and wished he had simply redecked. This = was several years ago, right as these types of products came out. Just = last week we were talking and he said that he had changed his view becau= se the product was still holding up very nicely and that he thought that= they have refined their formulation to make application a little easier= . I too am looking at getting a little more time out of a deck, I think = I am going to try flipping the existing boards. If the bottom surface i= sn't better, I will simply redeck. Good luck and let us know how it turn= s out. Matt = ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> To: Shop Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] Wooden deck restoration paints Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 16:36:25 -0400 Our house (eastern Long Island) has a 12’ x 30’ wooden deck = on the back. It came with the house so we don’t know its age, but= it is far from new. It will need to be replaced eventually, but we&rsq= uo;d like to get at least a few more years out of it. Plus, our 1 year = old granddaughter will be walking and crawling on it this summer, so I&r= squo;d like to do what I can to both preserve the wood and her feet and = knees. I planned on using one of the thick paint products made for this= purpose, but most of the reviews on them are pretty lousy. Rustoleum R= estore is probably the worst according to Amazon, Home Depot and Lowe&rs= quo;s customers - possibly the worst I have ever seen for any product. = Other brands like Behr, Olympic and Anvil have generally better reviews,= but many, many customers still complain about lifting and peeling withi= n a year of installation. I know how critical preparation is on a produ= ct like this, but virtually all complaints seem to include a statement a= bout having followed the directions exactly. Still, I’d rather he= ar that from someone I trust. Does anyone here have any experience with= one of these products? = Thanks, Jim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive re@juno.com ----__JWM__J57b4f3f0.1e5ec0a6S.670a85c3M Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Jim, I haven't personally tried the wood coating products but= a good friend who has lots of experience and who I trust used it and wa= s not the least bit pleased after the task.  He said he had to do m= ultiple coats and the coverage wasn't even close to what was advertised.= By the time he was done he could have almost bought new deck boards. &n= bsp;He said it was the consistency of peanut butter and wished he had si= mply redecked.  This was several years ago, right as these types of= products came out.  Just last week we were talking and he said tha= t he had changed his view because the product was still holding up very = nicely and that he thought that they have refined their formulation to m= ake application a little easier.
 
I too am looking at getting a little more time out of a deck, I thi= nk I am going to try flipping the existing boards.  If the bottom s= urface isn't better, I will simply redeck.
 
Good luck and let us know how it turns out.
 
Matt
 
 


---------- Original Message ----------
From: Jim Stone &= lt;1789alpine@gmail.com>
To: Shop Talk <shop-talk@Autox.Team.Ne= t>
Subject: [Shop-talk] Wooden deck restoration paints
Date: We= d, 6 Apr 2016 16:36:25 -0400

Our house (eastern Long Island) has = a 12’ x 30’ wooden deck on the back.  It came with the = house so we don’t know its age, but it is far from new.  It w= ill need to be replaced eventually, but we’d like to get at least = a few more years out of it.  Plus, our 1 year old granddaughter wil= l be walking and crawling on it this summer, so I’d like to do wha= t I can to both preserve the wood and her feet and knees.  I planne= d on using one of the thick paint products made for this purpose, but mo= st of the reviews on them are pretty lousy.  Rustoleum Restore is p= robably the worst according to Amazon, Home Depot and Lowe’s custo= mers - possibly the worst I have ever seen for any product.  Other = brands like Behr, Olympic and Anvil have generally better reviews, but m= any, many customers still complain about lifting and peeling within a ye= ar of installation.  I know how critical preparation is on a produc= t like this, but virtually all complaints seem to include a statement ab= out having followed the directions exactly.  Still, I’d rathe= r hear that from someone I trust.  Does anyone here have any experi= ence with one of these products?

Thanks,

Jim
_________= ______________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.netDonate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation &= nbsp;$12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://ww= w.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/o= ptions/shop-talk/mbarre@juno.com

----__JWM__J57b4f3f0.1e5ec0a6S.670a85c3M-- --===============1705938514655604989== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============1705938514655604989==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 7 03:08:49 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5972F2587F5F for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 03:08:49 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from outbound-mail02.vgs.untd.com (outbound-mail02.vgs.untd.com [64.136.55.36]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 93DBE2588950 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2016 20:59:56 -0600 (MDT) t=1459998464; bh=47DEQpj8HBSa+/TImW+5JCeuQeRkm5NMpJWZG3hSuFU=; l=0; h=From:Date:To:Subject:Message-Id:Content-Type; b=d0hxiHtLeWuKYdD+YBmwfNP9tsC6cZ/ls8HSSsjDmedq6OMWWkfVBUwjVX6GDi6FX jQYDm7iISZu5tu3WZufdW4Ptey9QCPLsrpa954HKnbkk/LCqXy8oXTlnAsjMqqsluF gn/ijmTxqNXbSTwaCiD7zJVMyoPxLQWn9ykkwh5c= Received: from outbound-bu1.vgs.untd.com (webmail08.vgs.untd.com [10.181.12.148]) by smtpout03.vgs.untd.com with SMTP id AABMSMVZ6ARBWPJS for (sender ); Wed, 6 Apr 2016 20:07:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [63.118.178.130] by webmail08.vgs.untd.com with HTTP: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 03:06:43 GMT From: "Matt" Full-Name: "Matt" Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 03:06:43 GMT To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Wooden deck restoration paints Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============6166413372372903671== ----__JWM__J20b8e242.67cea80cS.ef9745eM Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Jim, I haven't personally tried the wood coating products but a good fri= end who has lots of experience and who I trust used it and was not the l= east bit pleased after the task. He said he had to do multiple coats an= d the coverage wasn't even close to what was advertised. By the time he = was done he could have almost bought new deck boards. He said it was th= e consistency of peanut butter and wished he had simply redecked. This = was several years ago, right as these types of products came out. Just = last week we were talking and he said that he had changed his view becau= se the product was still holding up very nicely and that he thought that= they have refined their formulation to make application a little easier= . I too am looking at getting a little more time out of a deck, I think = I am going to try flipping the existing boards. If the bottom surface i= sn't better, I will simply redeck. Good luck and let us know how it turn= s out. Matt = ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> To: Shop Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] Wooden deck restoration paints Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 16:36:25 -0400 Our house (eastern Long Island) has a 12’ x 30’ wooden deck = on the back. It came with the house so we don’t know its age, but= it is far from new. It will need to be replaced eventually, but we&rsq= uo;d like to get at least a few more years out of it. Plus, our 1 year = old granddaughter will be walking and crawling on it this summer, so I&r= squo;d like to do what I can to both preserve the wood and her feet and = knees. I planned on using one of the thick paint products made for this= purpose, but most of the reviews on them are pretty lousy. Rustoleum R= estore is probably the worst according to Amazon, Home Depot and Lowe&rs= quo;s customers - possibly the worst I have ever seen for any product. = Other brands like Behr, Olympic and Anvil have generally better reviews,= but many, many customers still complain about lifting and peeling withi= n a year of installation. I know how critical preparation is on a produ= ct like this, but virtually all complaints seem to include a statement a= bout having followed the directions exactly. Still, I’d rather he= ar that from someone I trust. Does anyone here have any experience with= one of these products? = Thanks, Jim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive re@juno.com ----__JWM__J20b8e242.67cea80cS.ef9745eM Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Jim, I haven't personally tried the wood coating products but a goo= d friend who has lots of experience and who I trust used it and was not = the least bit pleased after the task.  He said he had to do multipl= e coats and the coverage wasn't even close to what was advertised. By th= e time he was done he could have almost bought new deck boards.  He= said it was the consistency of peanut butter and wished he had simply r= edecked.  This was several years ago, right as these types of produ= cts came out.  Just last week we were talking and he said that he h= ad changed his view because the product was still holding up very nicely= and that he thought that they have refined their formulation to make ap= plication a little easier.
 
I too am looking at getting a little more time out of a deck, I thi= nk I am going to try flipping the existing boards.  If the bottom s= urface isn't better, I will simply redeck.
 
Good luck and let us know how it turns out.
 
Matt
 
 


---------- Original Message ----------
From: Jim Stone &= lt;1789alpine@gmail.com>
To: Shop Talk <shop-talk@Autox.Team.Ne= t>
Subject: [Shop-talk] Wooden deck restoration paints
Date: We= d, 6 Apr 2016 16:36:25 -0400

Our house (eastern Long Island) has = a 12’ x 30’ wooden deck on the back.  It came with the = house so we don’t know its age, but it is far from new.  It w= ill need to be replaced eventually, but we’d like to get at least = a few more years out of it.  Plus, our 1 year old granddaughter wil= l be walking and crawling on it this summer, so I’d like to do wha= t I can to both preserve the wood and her feet and knees.  I planne= d on using one of the thick paint products made for this purpose, but mo= st of the reviews on them are pretty lousy.  Rustoleum Restore is p= robably the worst according to Amazon, Home Depot and Lowe’s custo= mers - possibly the worst I have ever seen for any product.  Other = brands like Behr, Olympic and Anvil have generally better reviews, but m= any, many customers still complain about lifting and peeling within a ye= ar of installation.  I know how critical preparation is on a produc= t like this, but virtually all complaints seem to include a statement ab= out having followed the directions exactly.  Still, I’d rathe= r hear that from someone I trust.  Does anyone here have any experi= ence with one of these products?

Thanks,

Jim
_________= ______________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.netDonate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation &= nbsp;$12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://ww= w.team.net/forums
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----__JWM__J20b8e242.67cea80cS.ef9745eM-- --===============6166413372372903671== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============6166413372372903671==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 8 20:12:38 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C7222589621 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 20:12:38 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from bradakis.com (50-198-190-18-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.198.190.18]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD59B2587622; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 14:14:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bradakis.com (50-198-190-18-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.198.190.18]) by bradakis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D80A411ACA8; Fri, 8 Apr 2016 14:22:30 -0600 (MDT) To: vintage-race@autox.team.net, "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" From: Mark J Bradakis Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 14:22:29 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:42.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/42.0 SeaMonkey/2.39 Subject: [Shop-talk] Shining Silver Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net A few years back Karen and I celebrated our 25th wedding anniversary, our Silver Anniversary as they call it. And coming up in just a few days on April 11th is Team.Net's Silver Anniversary. Yes, on April 11, 1991 the domain was registered and went on the air. In truth, it existed before that in the form of two mailing lists, british-cars and autox which were outgrowths of rec.autos Usenet groups. Murky history there. But Team.Net as we know it today has been around for a quarter of a century. Of the 60 some lists on the server, most are inactive. I may take some time this summer to clean up and remove any lists that have not seen any posts for N months, the value of N to be determined. Some lists, though, are still going strong, soldiering on from the days when Team.Net lists and website were at the leading edge, the only game in town. It was estimated that at the 1997 SCCA Solo II Nationals, their Silver Anniversary, roughly 2/3 of the 1,000+ participants were on the autox list. If you check out http://autox.team.net you will find many pages last updated about 24.99 years ago, though, hardly leading edge now. One of these days ... Who could have foreseen how a simple stream of 1s and 0s could be such a part of the lives of so many people, the catalyst for enduring friendships, a formidable source of knowledge and inspiration? How many cars are on the road these days instead of the scrap heap because of us and our efforts over decades? Happy Birthday to us. and carry on! mjb. ps: I am sending this out a few days early because on Monday I will be on the road somewhere between Phoenix and Salt Lake City. I'll look into the multi-hour delay in posting when I return. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 9 08:06:33 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36DB825895C4 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 08:06:33 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from dogbert2.mail.megageek.com (nj-69-34-94-16.sta.embarqhsd.net [69.34.94.16]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F19C92588F82 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 07:21:55 -0600 (MDT) To: "Shop Talk" From: eric@megageek.com Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 08:59:17 -0400 04/09/2016 08:59:00, Serialize complete at 04/09/2016 08:59:00 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Shining Silver Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============3197183131068838771== This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 004A2C6C85257F90_= Thanks for having (and putting up with us) for that long! Again, I'm always thankful I have bunch of people here that know way more than me (although that bar isn't high)! Pulled my fanny off the flames more than once! Rock on! Here's to 25 X 25 more years! Sent from my Commodore 64 on a 2400 Baud Modem. Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson --=_alternative 004A2C6C85257F90_= Thanks for having (and putting up with us) for that long!

Again, I'm always thankful I have  bunch of people here that know way more than me (although that bar isn't high)!

Pulled my fanny off the flames more than once!

Rock on!

Here's to 25 X 25 more years!


Sent from my Commodore 64 on a 2400 Baud Modem.
Eric P
"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson --=_alternative 004A2C6C85257F90_=-- --===============3197183131068838771== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============3197183131068838771==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 9 11:18:35 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 525512585E0E for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 11:18:35 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-po-04v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-po-04v.sys.comcast.net [96.114.154.163]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B640325881FC for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 09:54:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-po-01v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.225]) by comcast with SMTP id ovKxaaQeeIY3MovLJaPfBP; Sat, 09 Apr 2016 16:02:37 +0000 s=q20140121; t=1460217757; bh=jgSSeywBh2fkSo2obVtw0LYt7lj7vkXwlCXQOSb47kE=; h=Received:Received:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=BeaXqKXNbc9+DhvR4g5RLlRG2FnMmQ7DT8zdd7X50MGc9ULPEO+MDrUNVJZopuqCj p3EvAES5W6WMERym2CXYLHoXC06aKMsbUCxCmnY7MmcPMfpd0EfGoFTJKigohr+vLy pTP+GC5Uzws3pEfWGM/HMyPqteb2tBfEB1QujAuG7XubdtfDNomLLP8qbtTOfYQozs m7V9eJSDGKNircQ2V/ucVgoZa7jGDTQ+qsCO7f4LzH1i0KOo9sp+Dkdr6l1H0eStzC w2ZdQbSvH+uXdsjgU0eadNqgEOr83yzvbAdZDaY152ij29R6ZjktxoAUAGd6iy3Qk0 /7R7qr0u04jbw== Received: from [IPv6:2601:646:8900:1ddf:7d8a:73f:5971:7fd8] ([IPv6:2601:646:8900:1ddf:7d8a:73f:5971:7fd8]) by resomta-po-01v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id gG2c1s00A3j7mnv01G2cJE; Sat, 09 Apr 2016 16:02:37 +0000 To: Shop Talk From: Bob Spidell Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 09:02:46 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 Subject: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Folks, I realize this is like bringing up 'best oil' or 'best tires' on a car list, but I'm in the market for a battery drill/driver/sander/etc. combo to replace my ancient--but still working--Makita 9V driver-drill. I want something with all the 'goodies;' I'll need the usual driver/drill, but also need a portable sander (belt and/or disc), and at least the option for more attachments. I know I probably can't lose with DeWalt, Milwaukee, Makita or even Craftsman--hell, they might all come out of the same factory in China for all I know--but would like to see if there's a consensus on best overall. Is more voltage always better, or is 14.4V better for some reason than 19.2V, etc.? My main issue, and the reason I haven't retired the old Makita yet, is that the batteries always seem to lose capacity over time. The 9V Makita is nickel-metal-hydride, and both the OEM--which are too expensive IMO--and cheap, off-brand aftermarket ones all lose charge when not used, and lose capacity after repeated charging. I know Li-Ion is better, but a battery is a battery, and they all will lose some capacity over time. Any and all opinions, rants, etc. welcome. Bob _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 9 12:24:28 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80D3B2588C29 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 12:24:28 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mr11p24im-asmtp004.me.com (mr11p24im-asmtp004.me.com [17.110.78.110]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0119258961D for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 11:45:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.50.60] (unknown [184.105.18.14]) by mr11p24im-asmtp004.me.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7.0.5.36.0 64bit (built Sep 8 2015)) with ESMTPSA id <0O5D00AV7ODFNM40@mr11p24im-asmtp004.me.com> for shop-talk@autox.team.net; Sat, 09 Apr 2016 17:53:41 +0000 (GMT) definitions=2016-04-09_11:,, signatures=0 clxscore=1011 suspectscore=2 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1510270003 definitions=main-1604090272 References: <570927A6.2070700@comcast.net> From: Pat Horne Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2016 12:53:38 -0500 To: Bob Spidell Cc: Shop Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Bob, I've been using DeWalt cordless stuff since the 14.4v stuff was new. I now have 18v tools and really like them. The new, lighter batteries are great! I had a few 18v Milwaukee tools for a while but they didn't live up to my expectations. Our Habitat electrical crew used to use them too but had too much trouble with reliability so they changed to DeWalt. Several things to consider: Newer, higher voltage tools are great but they cost more. Consider factory refurbished tools, much cheaper. (I bought a 1/2" drill, 1/4" impact driver, 2 XLR batteries case @ a charger for $110.) Whatever brand you select, buy tools that use the same battery. That way you can buy a few batteries, 1 charger & bare tools. Much cheaper that way. Pat Horne We support Caldwell County Habitat for Humanity On Apr 9, 2016, at 11:02 AM, Bob Spidell wrote: Folks, I realize this is like bringing up 'best oil' or 'best tires' on a car list, but I'm in the market for a battery drill/driver/sander/etc. combo to replace my ancient--but still working--Makita 9V driver-drill. I want something with all the 'goodies;' I'll need the usual driver/drill, but also need a portable sander (belt and/or disc), and at least the option for more attachments. I know I probably can't lose with DeWalt, Milwaukee, Makita or even Craftsman--hell, they might all come out of the same factory in China for all I know--but would like to see if there's a consensus on best overall. Is more voltage always better, or is 14.4V better for some reason than 19.2V, etc.? My main issue, and the reason I haven't retired the old Makita yet, is that the batteries always seem to lose capacity over time. The 9V Makita is nickel-metal-hydride, and both the OEM--which are too expensive IMO--and cheap, off-brand aftermarket ones all lose charge when not used, and lose capacity after repeated charging. I know Li-Ion is better, but a battery is a battery, and they all will lose some capacity over time. Any and all opinions, rants, etc. welcome. Bob _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 9 16:44:20 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75CC325878E1 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 16:44:20 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from dogbert2.mail.megageek.com (nj-69-34-94-16.sta.embarqhsd.net [69.34.94.16]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C868A2586476 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 13:14:51 -0600 (MDT) To: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net From: eric@megageek.com Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 14:51:53 -0400 04/09/2016 14:51:57, Serialize complete at 04/09/2016 14:51:57 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============6270168205324280511== This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 006A74DB85257F90_= Bob, Dewalt has released a REAL game changer in my opinion. I love my Dewalt 18v tools. I have tons of them. But the Li-ion stuff is the new way to go. So, Dewalt, after about 1 year of teasing, has released this adaptor (under the B&D name*). http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DCA1820-Dewalt-Battery-Adapter/dp/B016K1UD0E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1460229262&sr=8-1&keywords=dewalt+18+to+20+volt+adapter It allows you to use any dewalt cordless 18v or 20v tool with new Li-ion batteries! For $65, it's cheaper than a replacement battery. SO, here is the real benefit... 1- You can buy new tools (new Li-ion) for the tools you use the most. 2-You can keep the other tools that are lesser used (I have just about every dewalt cordless tool in the NiCd format. Many of these I don't use enough to need to replace them.) 3-I'm sure you can find closeouts and sales of NiCd tool combos, but still use the new batteries. FWIW, I bought my Li-Ion set about 8 months ago and I had to charge one of the batteries once so far. These things REALLY last. Note, there are a few of the old tools that you can't use this adaptor on, but it is just because of interference fit for the batteries (like the radio and wet/dry hand held vac.) *=while the adaptor is branded "Dewalt", the paperwork I got with it referred to B&D. Sent from my Commodore 64 on a 2400 Baud Modem. Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson --=_alternative 006A74DB85257F90_=
Bob,

Dewalt has released a REAL game changer in my opinion.  I love my Dewalt 18v tools.  I have tons of them.  But the Li-ion stuff is the new way to go.  So, Dewalt, after about 1 year of teasing, has released this adaptor (under the B&D name*).

http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DCA1820-Dewalt-Battery-Adapter/dp/B016K1UD0E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1460229262&sr=8-1&keywords=dewalt+18+to+20+volt+adapter

It allows you to use any dewalt cordless 18v or 20v tool with new Li-ion batteries!  For $65, it's cheaper than a replacement battery.

SO, here is the real benefit...

1- You can buy new tools (new Li-ion) for the tools you use the most.
2-You can keep the other tools that are lesser used (I have just about every dewalt cordless tool in the NiCd format.  Many of these I don't use enough to need to replace them.)
3-I'm sure you can find closeouts and sales of NiCd tool combos, but still use the new batteries.

FWIW, I bought my Li-Ion set about 8 months ago and I had to charge one of the batteries once so far.  These things REALLY last.

Note, there are a few of the old tools that you can't use this adaptor on, but it is just because of interference fit for the batteries (like the radio and wet/dry hand held vac.)


*=while the adaptor is branded "Dewalt", the paperwork I got with it referred to B&D.

Sent from my Commodore 64 on a 2400 Baud Modem.
Eric P
"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson --=_alternative 006A74DB85257F90_=-- --===============6270168205324280511== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============6270168205324280511==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 9 17:46:38 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 736852589427 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 17:46:38 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ig0-f169.google.com (mail-ig0-f169.google.com [209.85.213.169]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9F9325897DB for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 15:54:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-ig0-f169.google.com with SMTP id gy3so58180475igb.1 for ; Sat, 09 Apr 2016 15:02:41 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc; bh=ZLQwJhYDbrf3QunxpL3yY723nBBcfDvyzxZ78XgvNcE=; b=PgUSQgyRh/Rfq37HvNpSeCZgAdFbqG21bUuiZLqbWHBve7wduzgjeTB9E9pSoTexdH zlOOkWdxEPA+O9cc4y07fjEU7+suv3XOD0yZYjGqS04fUC221E/CtVmA8fnqhD7wXR3J kgdrS6Ku34BjmS0ENq5woWqUURbRQTWGGB7RxGtw0P6iMHX7sGSUQrhQwiqGo6Iscjj9 TkTdHhDhLmZNjk1Vmy87TrW0+hXvtrMv0juZvskarn8yn5r4T2DiXsII/ZM3AuVYtlJz CwDhm1WyhTYiu9amrAnS6AR/kGrZ+zfJWXeQyemry9zYK1IszolJJMSKJUCLrQCdkS2b LsBw== d=parkanzky-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc; bh=ZLQwJhYDbrf3QunxpL3yY723nBBcfDvyzxZ78XgvNcE=; b=FD1OBEiZKJyX0tR7Z/810B+5id2OGSD119MNjVFxqlfOSSr44zGEtVIDXQnPUqaOjl wmBOcp36Nxwzb5/IaTKnulZY1eFyCShIktgjHEPn0EGdK1v+rTr3RFFgZrUViiQP2zhb Th7h9cjPAZdq31sZvkX84LOT4c80qYAiCVhCj1wiYk7w1TkETX68KycdOPidLHZznFwi m9RzlglUaUNLQBUjoD1qseqmz+cZCU5CMqwKTkSrgBahgGwrt45KFdJB4Ndio+4Ia9M5 21Pc1r8JSEP41Bz+CyF2d9BZvZyko0vEKml2F1/miK3VElVfHGMkhAKsmaqUzZq+anPz Yd/Q== d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc; bh=ZLQwJhYDbrf3QunxpL3yY723nBBcfDvyzxZ78XgvNcE=; b=haJKw0pmmyHpIz9ku+z8JdWWPEEzzoQINUIz627bIL4zGO7iigGQKCQGhbu+ovKitn KIFMErTSJkHzeQHj8Hhi9oeOvtyY/F8vk7Gl7nqU1NiSVNNzFaIKHeU89PWzoJ8JLRxE lpiVYSfrMlDpZg8CjbkVNwqQh7b6K7CtmN6262vWQtQzs7UjmRKowzkQml9vBU+J5oA5 AzV/qKTMvtBXaLcx6d0ApKIQsdUoDhYpGKHKZ+kASP19aA46NO9fx0CuYY/R/ak0mfrm nFmbJ/YAr9ylEssNlJek/mrjvF1wI1rpGNjcVyxUG6vs6B4uF5V8Z+Sj9Up+wvLuf49N Awgw== Sat, 09 Apr 2016 15:02:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.79.38.144 with HTTP; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 15:02:41 -0700 (PDT) References: <570927A6.2070700@comcast.net> Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 18:02:41 -0400 From: Paul Parkanzky To: Bob Spidell Cc: Shop Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============2199859120918909568== --047d7bdc0f226cb6000530147852 I have Bosch 18v Li-Ion impact driver and hammer drills and I absolutely love them. The charge seems to last forever. The impact driver is the higher-torque model, with something like 125 lb-ft. of torque, which is usually enough to do wheel swaps. I can't say enough great stuff about them. -Paul On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 12:02 PM, Bob Spidell wrote: > Folks, > > I realize this is like bringing up 'best oil' or 'best tires' on a car > list, but I'm in the market for a battery drill/driver/sander/etc. combo to > replace my ancient--but still working--Makita 9V driver-drill. I want > something with all the 'goodies;' I'll need the usual driver/drill, but > also need a portable sander (belt and/or disc), and at least the option for > more attachments. > > I know I probably can't lose with DeWalt, Milwaukee, Makita or even > Craftsman--hell, they might all come out of the same factory in China for > all I know--but would like to see if there's a consensus on best overall. > Is more voltage always better, or is 14.4V better for some reason than > 19.2V, etc.? My main issue, and the reason I haven't retired the old > Makita yet, is that the batteries always seem to lose capacity over time. > The 9V Makita is nickel-metal-hydride, and both the OEM--which are too > expensive IMO--and cheap, off-brand aftermarket ones all lose charge when > not used, and lose capacity after repeated charging. I know Li-Ion is > better, but a battery is a battery, and they all will lose some capacity > over time. > > Any and all opinions, rants, etc. welcome. > > Bob --047d7bdc0f226cb6000530147852 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have Bosch 18v Li-Ion impact driver and hammer drills an= d I absolutely love them.=C2=A0 The charge seems to last forever.=C2=A0 The= impact driver is the higher-torque model, with something like 125 lb-ft. o= f torque, which is usually enough to do wheel swaps.=C2=A0 I can't say = enough great stuff about them.

-Paul

On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 12:02 PM, = Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net> wrote:
Folks,

I realize this is like bringing up 'best oil' or 'best tires= 9; on a car list, but I'm in the market for a battery drill/driver/sand= er/etc. combo to replace my ancient--but still working--Makita 9V driver-dr= ill.=C2=A0 I want something with all the 'goodies;' I'll need t= he usual driver/drill, but also need a portable sander (belt and/or disc), = and at least the option for more attachments.

I know I probably can't lose with DeWalt, Milwaukee, Makita or even Cra= ftsman--hell, they might all come out of the same factory in China for all = I know--but would like to see if there's a consensus on best overall.= =C2=A0 Is more voltage always better, or is 14.4V better for some reason th= an 19.2V, etc.?=C2=A0 =C2=A0 My main issue, and the reason I haven't re= tired the old Makita yet, is that the batteries always seem to lose capacit= y over time.=C2=A0 The 9V Makita is nickel-metal-hydride, and both the OEM-= -which are too expensive IMO--and cheap, off-brand aftermarket ones all los= e charge when not used, and lose capacity after repeated charging.=C2=A0 I = know Li-Ion is better, but a battery is a battery, and they all will lose s= ome capacity over time.

Any and all opinions, rants, etc. welcome.

Bob
--047d7bdc0f226cb6000530147852-- --===============2199859120918909568== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============2199859120918909568==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 9 19:16:25 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88F7E2588AB4 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 19:16:25 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-ch2-08v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-08v.sys.comcast.net [69.252.207.40]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C927325885E4 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 18:02:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-17v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.113]) by comcast with SMTP id p2xaaj3CvbFYYp2xha6tba; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 00:10:45 +0000 s=q20140121; t=1460247045; bh=u+e2SbYBaHPTaS0f24Zpmp8AeagfPNvf/+yyZdOkK/g=; h=Received:Received:Date:From:To:Message-ID:Subject:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=jfNUTDHdPfZ3XOj3KQPI5u8VcDcFcUgUZkiGTPDQFH5+XV317Rj1xSCQHE2L/HVLx +XM6lE+GPccGzenb7yJPdnpzPU3/JcJd6GPwpZtaDcSRzFO7Ov9oYCYDTPPwvfG5eA 8yvqfh3kKph6GWIq03tV+h7dtOPyTE5z7LIBip8RaIm/yziBsVpyYNZZWcyPQUrOae ElSd553XHTfmv7nedSNtmNunj5JWRgKygFv+0d1rbzfuGguWLiSYzyQIL9sFEt8jP8 +r+BJViUB3++8tncw7soBD/YDlM9vUvoO8AVQswFdXgFORBFkIPIO4poNQgmVeGB8v 2OQlAwPOv71VQ== Received: from resmail-ch2-793v.sys.comcast.net ([162.150.51.64]) by resomta-ch2-17v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id gQAl1s0091P6glN01QAlbf; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 00:10:45 +0000 Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 00:10:45 +0000 (UTC) From: Tom & Marge FitzGibbon To: Bob Spidell , Shop Talk References: <570927A6.2070700@comcast.net> boundary="----=_Part_7350561_1878634479.1460247045042" Thread-Topic: Battery-operated tools Thread-Index: AxpAL7I8748bWkx8KlFWX6e4219tsA== Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net ------=_Part_7350561_1878634479.1460247045042 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bob,

In my life experience the = higher the voltage the better the performance and the newer LIthium batteri= es are a great improvement over NiCad. They lose a charge much more slowly = sitting on a shelf, although I have found they are also affected by tempera= ture so lose a charge in an unheated garage in the winter much faster than = in a heated garage. My other observation is stick with one brand so you hav= e one charger if you can. I did not do that and it is a PITA managing the d= ifferent batteries and chargers.

I've been a long time fan of DeWal= t and Porter Cable, but I recently bought a Makita and am very impressed. I= 've had several of their corded tools over the years but was unimpressed by= earlier generations of their battery operated tools. Their current tools h= owever seem to be a big improvement.

Hope that helps.

Tom
Sent from XFINITY Connect Mobile App


------ Original Messa= ge ------

From: Bob Spidell
To: Shop Talk
Sent: April 9, 2016 = at 2:12 PM
Subject: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools

Folks,
=
I realize this is like bringing up 'best oil' or 'best tires' on a car =
list, but I'm in the market for a battery drill/driver/sander/etc. comb= o
to replace my ancient--but still working--Makita 9V driver-drill. &nb= sp;I
want something with all the 'goodies;' I'll need the usual driver/= drill,
but also need a portable sander (belt and/or disc), and at least= the
option for more attachments.

I know I probably can't lose w= ith DeWalt, Milwaukee, Makita or even
Craftsman--hell, they might all c= ome out of the same factory in China
for all I know--but would like to = see if there's a consensus on best
overall.  Is more voltage alway= s better, or is 14.4V better for some
reason than 19.2V, etc.?   &= nbsp;My main issue, and the reason I haven't
retired the old Makita yet= , is that the batteries always seem to lose
capacity over time.  T= he 9V Makita is nickel-metal-hydride, and both the
OEM--which are too e= xpensive IMO--and cheap, off-brand aftermarket ones
all lose charge whe= n not used, and lose capacity after repeated
charging.  I know Li-= Ion is better, but a battery is a battery, and they
all will lose some = capacity over time.

Any and all opinions, rants, etc. welcome.
Bob
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@a= utox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annua= l donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: = http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mai= lman/options/shop-talk/fitzgibbon3@comcast.net

 ------=_Part_7350561_1878634479.1460247045042 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive ------=_Part_7350561_1878634479.1460247045042-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 9 19:56:16 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B16E025896C2 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 19:56:16 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qg0-f49.google.com (mail-qg0-f49.google.com [209.85.192.49]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B1D125891D7 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 18:24:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-qg0-f49.google.com with SMTP id f52so118825641qga.3 for ; Sat, 09 Apr 2016 17:32:27 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=qOjeuMQti2TszHRy57qWbKsjA/QipQtWI8vRk8QaE14=; b=1DC3hBxB7+p/Bs6+i0g4xC+7UMjiSTNU83PxlMNIATQcxukvZDlmgkpw1VLxnHXrW3 embkLK5b/qgzLowdYIAvJwWxQfTZMZmghWT7fIvekiOoSOpiuiJRCxXEweJCxa9J9674 iAZUJjCxArvGCQA+tDy8BHHB7Lut+c7oo1MckCLyga5GKzwTq+7vA7usCQv9OO8rZiEn 4Q5GRhHFjY06cc9cb8FGgqRI3VXvpgZtc6SiZAicEAkhtzyow/CSH0JebeUJF4QFMmza ooiHbhC18c2+UE/WaWAW7e8wITcTZW6H342X1CqFeEKKv5ujvk4SMxbSrrYsy8U/FTRa okrw== d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=qOjeuMQti2TszHRy57qWbKsjA/QipQtWI8vRk8QaE14=; b=DJx+IDIQOd7AeKeqOGBWdA2U/SpEQwTeAX4voblSs9HbgYfjUNX3HwrRfWxUFDd8MM Rd0BcYQrkrAuYQYK7DwyKMSExZItW7a9G8seQ9gEL52rgJnMnyndSQUTzYkj74xAbLxw 9iHD8mx7kG/P/4gajRw2VgBw2/2Je1AUSL1bHhuv0VuZnVNIYtZ4jyolQYJMD5zfjEBy Y6/ZCaA0Kt++Ogx/jcfF0t1469Q1snkZ5V9kmwZl8yylKqNp7UOXdosX7cM42jGKi5Pu 24HWjZV8IsF8D8kJgAA+Gc7xoxkcOY/OBQbgOBOcsoxYEnrST1cuzWvWNpq5XYvqh4GX zsOg== Sat, 09 Apr 2016 17:32:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.124] (ool-457e068c.dyn.optonline.net. [69.126.6.140]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v66sm8293845qhb.26.2016.04.09.17.32.20 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 09 Apr 2016 17:32:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 20:32:19 -0400 References: <66FE53CB-6D09-44D4-BD81-21E3AB6FDE86@gmail.com> <000101d1906e$229be760$67d3b620$@lotusowners.com> To: Tony Vaccaro , Shop Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Wooden deck restoration paints Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net VGhhbmtzIGZvciB0aGF0LCBUb255LiAgSSBqdXN0IGxvb2tlZCB1cCB0aGUgU2hlcndpbiBXaWxs aWFtc+KAmSBwYWludCBhbmQgdGhlIHJldmlld3MgbG9vayBiZXR0ZXIgdGhhbiB0aGUgb3RoZXJz IEkgaGFkIHJlc2VhcmNoZWQuCgpBbmQsIHNvcnJ5IGZvciB0aGUgZGVsYXkgLSBmb3Igc29tZSBy ZWFzb24sIHRoZSByZXNwb25zZXMgd2VudCBpbnRvIG15IHNwYW0gZm9sZGVyIGFuZCBJIGp1c3Qg c2F3IHRoZW0uCgpKaW0KCj4gT24gQXByIDYsIDIwMTYsIGF0IDk6MzggUE0sIFRvbnkgVmFjY2Fy byA8dHZhY2NAbG90dXNvd25lcnMuY29tPiB3cm90ZToKPiAKPiBJIGZvcmdvdCB0byBtZW50aW9u 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autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60ABA2589352 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 00:21:06 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm21-vm8.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (nm21-vm8.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [216.39.63.229]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 191CB2584E53 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2016 21:18:38 -0600 (MDT) t=1460258793; bh=xu8FOADsaQN8G9xKTzVp+KGWS1udFC/pvL+qVQWmrNY=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=y1c2RXQ1hmS6gFzvotiIRY95bvneSB+qopBXZ87h/J+ZNpboxMEgFHw9DV7m/gL5zV0oRSPXUD9Oxeyq4BYEKgXIvZNRZURLf2Wp6TzUF7VtzUKVU6xcmmKeGOzuh2qnyl54jUdx9VhrOkLF4bAYOX7AWuGjftQgFe5Cm9VK/as= Received: from [216.39.60.171] by nm21.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Apr 2016 03:26:33 -0000 Received: from [67.195.23.148] by tm7.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Apr 2016 03:26:33 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp120.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Apr 2016 03:26:33 -0000 fxk_SK3yXK48.5X7UvlC2sd26YOZ2t8sHuHddWIPyx7aWUcqXfHUWZLhgWra r54CzO4U5ZcymNsLPZQFYSY2Ckpbg.OFtOVhxeujk0Y2vBBih_yKB6eOnLRb YPxKAwOJtnDqcJQPuxHLsbGATLi4TRriMCBVMUNacBMxLAkXXcyXvyr.YAOq lZ7I0cjUPE_4PaWcAfY7vz5ZWyTa896xY0NS.WbJTxIBMjLXVEHQCmx7mBgb okEXjgrEo9r3agBKeNrEU1TKVDUeCZF0KzxLnPDvavjtx_C9I53Du_ws0ZG. XxIxSJkrq8esvbfS0rwznn8zViWA6G740FVyYHOZKcc1nvIz0.mxcChzYUoA scnW9QzyNRH7EOwSRmXdP5eNAn_LP1aBsJudinS.WIlTiZvPZob9WLo.ZdmK eM4vSOgkOp95dkLDXNdZdK5Wl0mBpESNqbQwxmRGLJ9caGIj5IY1JR1WnP0F Bi70khkeVgbNvZ6QLbRzeZ9YoAAZkFQ1ziw-- From: "john niolon" To: "shop-talk" Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 22:26:19 -0500 Importance: Normal Subject: [Shop-talk] Netflix and U-verse Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0808624839367160899== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01D2_01D192AE.D70CA530" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01D2_01D192AE.D70CA530 charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable wondering if there is a way to get Netflix thru U-verse... some = limited reading makes me think no... anyone got a work around that = doesn=E2=80=99t involve using my laptop or my phone... love to just = turn on the TV and do it thanks john ------=_NextPart_000_01D2_01D192AE.D70CA530 charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
wondering if there is a way to get Netflix thru = U-verse...   some=20 limited reading makes me think no...   anyone got a work = around that=20 doesn=E2=80=99t involve using my laptop or my phone...  love to = just turn  on=20 the TV and do it
 
thanks
john
------=_NextPart_000_01D2_01D192AE.D70CA530-- --===============0808624839367160899== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============0808624839367160899==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 10 05:06:15 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0C722588D5C for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 05:06:14 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-io0-f170.google.com (mail-io0-f170.google.com [209.85.223.170]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EEDC2587E88 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 04:40:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-io0-f170.google.com with SMTP id u185so9925691iod.3 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 03:48:11 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=kiXsBJe0TfOoW0dfoU0fvkrFAlAAktveG94YlpGWD3I=; b=bKPNxvvrpCtQWPoW3lCjFutXrgGYpg9jtvQLOi2VDjiUH9Xu8ctpRj5NxitU6DAQrw NUi+174fNaHx6BhLjxwJ2eJYpyJt1DbCDxTlojaC5PwgnVCL9WJtUSVq6WYacUiWO90V HwkzQ7GJIN7RwgJITBEQDtLkd6Etp3qNa9EviGdXN1z3RDsLAjVxgB5B/3RwDPFEzq5W 6HwdrU1a5ODyVfYEP9fzY9SNCWSciESb1KbLWlgI2FE1jVtzDamoiD+FceaqPRen49GT DJuF4u7/rASrPz+txuh2W7h25bD9tO+ize++iMb5zs7UYQC3bWU0PMVrogJhS6fIMmGM moZQ== d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=kiXsBJe0TfOoW0dfoU0fvkrFAlAAktveG94YlpGWD3I=; b=hf9r328sWh64oY6rSgzMREfXT1+85NuVqWkDXBNbJcGyav5g21l7HvhJu0IfWhx0Nm C49wnZr3n5863W1SGkHxULGGTh1wHm3iVCjm6fOP3JSFi1yqwf6V+O9dFaVrlUQhVT9E 2Kd2K/YB9fuOjqk9LEJjDEbf6l83fiWPo1pe47Sya5rr0qM+cPy9cY5Wcia5fO4OBmyb cZhR6l+oVtkdAwf8jkE/4DbZTvCeXHiS845a0VzHKjiuN422LyHk0oQgGAbYxH3NVhvi Bs8REEsHs8xI1jelVu4TV0isKDyd0drPMVNDyeEwqHT9Wso+kd4hduDZpwQpYa6ianK+ uyfw== Sun, 10 Apr 2016 03:48:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.209.68 with HTTP; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 03:48:00 -0700 (PDT) References: Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 06:48:00 -0400 From: Jeff Scarbrough To: john niolon , "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Netflix and U-verse Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net SXQncyBzb21ldGhpbmcgeW91IGdldCBvdmVyIGFuIGludGVybmV0IGNvbm5lY3Rpb24sIHNvIHlv dSBjb3VsZCB1c2UKc29tZXRoaW5nIGxpa2UgYSBSb2t1IGJveC4gIFNvbWUgc21hcnQgVFZzIG5v dyBpbmNsdWRlIHRoZSBhYmlsaXR5IHRvCnJlY2VpdmUgc3RyZWFtaW5nIHNlcnZpY2VzLCBidXQg SSBoYXZlbid0IGhhZCBleHBlcmllbmNlIHdpdGggdGhhdC4KCkFzIEkgdW5kZXJzdGFuZCBpdCwg VS1WZXJzZSBpcyBzb21ldGhpbmcgb2YgYSBjb21wZXRpdG9yIHRvIE5ldGZsaXgsCnNvIGEgZGly ZWN0IGNvbm5lY3Rpb24gaXMgdW5saWtlbHksIEkgd291bGQgdGhpbmsuCgpDaGVlcnMsCkplZmYK CgpPbiBTYXQsIEFwciA5LCAyMDE2IGF0IDExOjI2IFBNLCBqb2huIG5pb2xvbiA8am5pb2xvbkBh dHQubmV0PiB3cm90ZToKPiB3b25kZXJpbmcgaWYgdGhlcmUgaXMgYSB3YXkgdG8gZ2V0IE5ldGZs aXggdGhydSBVLXZlcnNlLi4uICAgc29tZSBsaW1pdGVkCj4gcmVhZGluZyBtYWtlcyBtZSB0aGlu ayBuby4uLiAgIGFueW9uZSBnb3QgYSB3b3JrIGFyb3VuZCB0aGF0IGRvZXNu4oCZdCBpbnZvbHZl Cj4gdXNpbmcgbXkgbGFwdG9wIG9yIG15IHBob25lLi4uICBsb3ZlIHRvIGp1c3QgdHVybiAgb24g dGhlIFRWIGFuZCBkbyBpdAo+Cj4gdGhhbmtzCj4gam9obgo+Cj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KPgo+IFNob3AtdGFsa0BhdXRveC50ZWFtLm5l dAo+IERvbmF0ZTogaHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWFtLm5ldC9kb25hdGUuaHRtbAo+IFN1Z2dlc3RlZCBh bm51YWwgZG9uYXRpb24gICQxMi45Ngo+IEFyY2hpdmU6IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cudGVhbS5uZXQvYXJj aGl2ZQo+IEZvcnVtczogaHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWFtLm5ldC9mb3J1bXMKPiBVbnN1YnNjcmliZS9N YW5hZ2U6Cj4gaHR0cDovL2F1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0L21haWxtYW4vb3B0aW9ucy9zaG9wLXRhbGsv ZmlzaHBsYXRlQGdtYWlsLmNvbQo+Cj4KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX18KClNob3AtdGFsa0BhdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldApEb25hdGU6IGh0dHA6Ly93 d3cudGVhbS5uZXQvZG9uYXRlLmh0bWwKU3VnZ2VzdGVkIGFubnVhbCBkb25hdGlvbiAgJDEyLjk2 CkFyY2hpdmU6IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cudGVhbS5uZXQvYXJjaGl2ZQpGb3J1bXM6IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cu dGVhbS5uZXQvZm9ydW1zClVuc3Vic2NyaWJlL01hbmFnZTogaHR0cDovL2F1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0 L21haWxtYW4vb3B0aW9ucy9zaG9wLXRhbGsvbWhhcmNAYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQKCg== From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 10 09:06:09 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C74B2589222 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:06:09 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-vk0-f68.google.com (mail-vk0-f68.google.com [209.85.213.68]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B86125890E0 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 07:32:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-vk0-f68.google.com with SMTP id x190so21742950vka.3 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 06:40:41 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc; bh=s5A6wPJ4M+X+GeVzbmybkl/Mko1yimjawThahKVITm4=; b=kxtjpulPqVXPzR7LYgmMB/QzMRArUYSQXEvM/hPVI+/XuTCI9FG7/MuF3ak1xfq+8/ RjMKANuS87m1RoMEt14UIqjFWsnALZMRlP/+1vYrwzJkUmgXuBLF0FEFzAIs8EHUR74K VRaw0tg6o968gnhfuC3WSQ+JuioO6r5IypoFYE83rlM+001yl+KXLIF/odh3jFLmHifT sJHvBQs/rCIs/D7kMrE5qVQiK+b5h9HtFllyQ7uj+92LREVxWKCk0MF8Bog3rrCo2V9I 2m8f2bdJaIIcBMi7MWPLhyAeFfuQVhPTT6kvqeubs99Xr3Sw3U744Tt8T5MgK01/d9So eujw== d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc; bh=s5A6wPJ4M+X+GeVzbmybkl/Mko1yimjawThahKVITm4=; b=Mfzhyf3iHbM5r1msvN2sQiKxg2v+SKqjvFj8azWu7fosTh4zW3brXQojNSWO4suGwO lsScF04sbz+ioEbFUczMkfS6XOioEQ2MclbqzT4rxLM2Tp/XLR5XvaTk8Pkeo3rqUg0z bNcNBgp64uiQHY/v/QiXACSRhHVYInS7PtoJk6WkjT2xAj3x7bw3rODCUhHsymZAHvOa p2Ga1uOyrbSLH0coMrG8N26s5f8l2jdIxuS4HDCJwRUAjGPlr4NREzEpFU52PGs/Ewmi RDZChEj8/Q2IiTceu6fPm3WsunnlktKEAweN9e0QQZ/x6BPLvC0gCSD7p0zR3F57a/IB 6Ygg== Sun, 10 Apr 2016 06:40:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.176.0.179 with HTTP; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 06:40:35 -0700 (PDT) References: <570927A6.2070700@comcast.net> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 08:40:35 -0500 From: David Scheidt To: Bob Spidell Cc: Shop Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 11:02 AM, Bob Spidell wrote: > Folks, > > I realize this is like bringing up 'best oil' or 'best tires' on a car list, > but I'm in the market for a battery drill/driver/sander/etc. combo to > replace my ancient--but still working--Makita 9V driver-drill. I want > something with all the 'goodies;' I'll need the usual driver/drill, but also > need a portable sander (belt and/or disc), and at least the option for more > attachments. > > I know I probably can't lose with DeWalt, Milwaukee, Makita or even > Craftsman--hell, they might all come out of the same factory in China for > all I know--but would like to see if there's a consensus on best overall. > Is more voltage always better, or is 14.4V better for some reason than > 19.2V, etc.? Pick the one that comes in the color you like. I like red, so I have Milwaukee[1]. Consider brushless for your most used tools, they're lighter and more powerful, and the price differential is getting smaller. Careful buying kits, and make sure you get the version of the kit you want.[2] Some kits are good deals, some aren't. Drill/driver + something kits tend to be good values, as they're sold on the drug dealer 'first one is free' model. Others are more expensive than buying the tool and batteries separately. And once you've got a collection of batteries, you don't need one for every tool. Modern Li-ion batteries and tools are far superior to Ni-Cad or NiMH batteries and tools. Li-ion batteries have lower self discharge, so they stay charged better, and they have higher power densities, so the batteries last longer. They also have much lower internal resistance, so tools can take power out of them much faster. That means the current crop of high-end 12V stuff is better than any 19.2 nicad tool, in nearly every respect: lighter, smaller, more powerful, and usually cheaper. The 18V stuff is amazing; my m18 fuel drill drills holes faster than my corded drill, which is a nice drill that I've never thought underpowered or slow. A note on voltages: the lithium cells used in the battery packs of these tools have a nominal voltage of 4v, which is closer to 3.6 under load. The 12V tools use 3 cells in series, the 18v tools use 5. (Dewalt's 20V stuff is 18V, the 20 is just marketing to make it sound better.) High capacity packs have two sets of cells in parallel. Name brand batteries have a pretty good life, and seem to last two to three years in professional use. [1]The actual reason i have Milwaukee tools is that I used to work with people who had them, and it meant I could borrow a tool I didn't own, and use my batteries on it. [2] I recently bought a drill/impact set. The version with the previous generation tools was still widely available, as was the early version of the kit I got, which came with lower capacity batteries. Both were more expensive... -- David Scheidt dmscheidt@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 10 10:41:15 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1228258857E for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 10:41:15 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from BAY004-OMC2S22.hotmail.com (bay004-omc2s22.hotmail.com [65.54.190.97]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 664132588D71 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 08:38:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from BAY402-EAS184 ([65.54.190.124]) by BAY004-OMC2S22.hotmail.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.23008); Sun, 10 Apr 2016 07:46:55 -0700 Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 14:46:54 +0000 From: To: References: FILETIME=[D3D28A90:01D19337] Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Netflix and U-verse Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============8626345401783728413== boundary="_a6bdf944-508e-40bd-905f-5bf98e4595bc_" --_a6bdf944-508e-40bd-905f-5bf98e4595bc_ boundary="----=_Part_8180_2061244768.1460299614765" ------=_Part_8180_2061244768.1460299614765 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We access Netflix on an older TV with a Roku. Jack On Sat=2C Apr 9=2C 2016 at 11:26 PM -0700=2C "john niolon" wrote: wondering if there is a way to get Netflix thru U-verse... some limited r= eading makes me think no... anyone got a work around that doesn=E2=80=99t= involve using my laptop or my phone... love to just turn on the TV and d= o it thanks john ------=_Part_8180_2061244768.1460299614765 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

We access Netflix on an older TV with a Roku.

Jack




On Sat=2C Apr 9=2C 2016 at 11:26 PM -0700=2C &qu= ot=3Bjohn niolon"=3B <=3Bjniolon@att.net<= /a>>=3B wrote:

wondering if there is a way to get Netflix thru U-verse... =3B&nbs= p=3B some limited reading makes me think no... =3B =3B anyone got a= work around that doesn=E2=80=99t involve using my laptop or my phone...&nb= sp=3B love to just turn =3B on the TV and do it
 =3B
thanks
john
------=_Part_8180_2061244768.1460299614765-- --_a6bdf944-508e-40bd-905f-5bf98e4595bc_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --_a6bdf944-508e-40bd-905f-5bf98e4595bc_-- --===============8626345401783728413== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============8626345401783728413==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 10 10:58:58 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C62182588C75 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 10:58:58 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mailfront2.g2host.com (mailfront2.g2host.com [209.98.94.162]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13F2A2589206 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 08:56:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [76.164.52.117] (account arvidj@visi.com HELO [192.168.1.48]) by visi.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.11) with ESMTPSA id 54388766 for shop-talk@autox.team.net; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 10:04:17 -0500 To: Shop Talk References: <570927A6.2070700@comcast.net> <1905110359.7350562.1460247045042.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> From: Arvid Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 10:04:49 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.1 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============5865785694691281235== boundary="------------030702040601050707070709" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030702040601050707070709 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Having faced the same situation about a year ago. My beloved Panasonic battery packs died and I did not want to rebuild them yet again. I decided on the Milwaukee brushless series of tools. I have the M12 brushless 12v drill and the brusheless impact driver plus the right angle drill [not brushless but it was a 'free' add-on to the 12v drill purchase and I've used it more than I thought I would]. All are very light yet quite powerful. There are two different size battery packs. One is 2ah and is the same size as the handle of the drill. As such it is very small and light but the battery lasts considerably longer than 90% of the jobs I use it for. For 5% of the remaining I use the 4ah battery which is the 'standard' flat bottom battery which allows you to set the drill down using the bottom of the battery pack as a stand. For the final 5% of the jobs I have the M18 brushless 18v drill, drill-driver, saws-all and portaband. They all take the 5ah battery and the drill has enough torque to easily break things [both organic and inorganic] if I do not pay attention to what I am doing. I am not suggesting that Milwaukee is any better nor worse than the other brands. Just that I am happy with them. I think Li-ion batteries is a given. As other have suggested, get one brand and share batteries. I bought several as 'complete kits' so I ended up with three chargers and multiple batteries. The rest were "tool only" purchases. For what ever reason I see a lot of new or very lightly used stuff on Craig's List in our area so the financial impact has not been as great as it could have been. I would highly recommend brushless not mater the brand. Given the improvements in Li-ion batteries and especially the brushless motors you may find that the 12v versions will do everything you need while being very light and easy to use. Arvid > ------ Original Message ------ > > From: Bob Spidell > To: Shop Talk > Sent: April 9, 2016 at 2:12 PM > Subject: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools > > Folks, > > I realize this is like bringing up 'best oil' or 'best tires' on a car > list, but I'm in the market for a battery drill/driver/sander/etc. combo > to replace my ancient--but still working--Makita 9V driver-drill. I > want something with all the 'goodies;' I'll need the usual driver/drill, > but also need a portable sander (belt and/or disc), and at least the > option for more attachments. > > I know I probably can't lose with DeWalt, Milwaukee, Makita or even > Craftsman--hell, they might all come out of the same factory in China > for all I know--but would like to see if there's a consensus on best > overall. Is more voltage always better, or is 14.4V better for some > reason than 19.2V, etc.? My main issue, and the reason I haven't > retired the old Makita yet, is that the batteries always seem to lose > capacity over time. The 9V Makita is nickel-metal-hydride, and both the > OEM--which are too expensive IMO--and cheap, off-brand aftermarket ones > all lose charge when not used, and lose capacity after repeated > charging. I know Li-Ion is better, but a battery is a battery, and they > all will lose some capacity over time. > > Any and all opinions, rants, etc. welcome. > > Bob > _______________________________________________ --------------030702040601050707070709 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Having faced the same situation about a year ago. My beloved Panasonic battery packs died and I did not want to rebuild them yet again. I decided on the Milwaukee brushless series of tools.

I have the M12 brushless 12v drill and the brusheless impact driver plus the right angle drill [not brushless but it was a 'free' add-on to the 12v drill purchase and I've used it more than I thought I would]. All are very light yet quite powerful. There are two different size battery packs. One is 2ah and is the same size as the handle of the drill. As such it is very small and light but the battery lasts considerably longer than 90% of the jobs I use it for. For 5% of the remaining I use the 4ah battery which is the 'standard' flat bottom battery which allows you to set the drill down using the bottom of the battery pack as a stand.

For the final 5% of the jobs I have the M18 brushless 18v drill, drill-driver, saws-all and portaband. They all take the 5ah battery and the drill has enough torque to easily break things [both organic and inorganic] if I do not pay attention to what I am doing.

I am not suggesting that Milwaukee is any better nor worse than the other brands. Just that I am happy with them.

I think Li-ion batteries is a given. As other have suggested, get one brand and share batteries. I bought several as 'complete kits' so I ended up with three chargers and multiple batteries. The rest were "tool only" purchases. For what ever reason I see a lot of new or very lightly used stuff on Craig's List in our area so the financial impact has not been as great as it could have been.

I would highly recommend brushless not mater the brand.

Given the improvements in Li-ion batteries and especially the brushless motors you may find that the 12v versions will do everything you need while being very light and easy to use.

Arvid

------ Original Message ------

From: Bob Spidell
To: Shop Talk
Sent: April 9, 2016 at 2:12 PM
Subject: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools

Folks,

I realize this is like bringing up 'best oil' or 'best tires' on a car
list, but I'm in the market for a battery drill/driver/sander/etc. combo
to replace my ancient--but still working--Makita 9V driver-drill.  I
want something with all the 'goodies;' I'll need the usual driver/drill,
but also need a portable sander (belt and/or disc), and at least the
option for more attachments.

I know I probably can't lose with DeWalt, Milwaukee, Makita or even
Craftsman--hell, they might all come out of the same factory in China
for all I know--but would like to see if there's a consensus on best
overall.  Is more voltage always better, or is 14.4V better for some
reason than 19.2V, etc.?    My main issue, and the reason I haven't
retired the old Makita yet, is that the batteries always seem to lose
capacity over time.  The 9V Makita is nickel-metal-hydride, and both the
OEM--which are too expensive IMO--and cheap, off-brand aftermarket ones
all lose charge when not used, and lose capacity after repeated
charging.  I know Li-Ion is better, but a battery is a battery, and they
all will lose some capacity over time.

Any and all opinions, rants, etc. welcome.

Bob
_______________________________________________

--------------030702040601050707070709-- --===============5865785694691281235== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============5865785694691281235==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 10 11:30:33 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDC702588FF9 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 11:30:33 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm8-vm8.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm8-vm8.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [216.109.114.183]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DBE32589250 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:17:30 -0600 (MDT) t=1460301931; bh=tCF3/C9rnvn7Febm6wyQgFHI5qXVS4POkvO6QsaFMkU=; h=Reply-To:Subject:References:To:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=Z3H0t+mGba5kMP64QXfByMFvL/wLpwBIgsGhL05wlXk40/6aTBnQuPE5lgNsCLMrjQaAJTFSCBucSUgy60X3VaxWYIrnwAyK7622jdKF+330Iz6KFWgDx+MjF/R5vor3m1nTilNALViDh4VZziIPWYrVpx5aiauAzuKXSsUI85E= Received: from [66.196.81.165] by nm8.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Apr 2016 15:25:31 -0000 Received: from [98.138.226.240] by tm11.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Apr 2016 15:25:31 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp111.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Apr 2016 15:25:31 -0000 5abEZdpHHfAE43py9Z0AiXzkhSANXjbepUSkp5K_qGYtrnXZeb3wk92P4yNr .thuVKBq9YgkXYs94cDbrY.mgUj7jZZ7p9DKFWpwSfEXAqxxtORemJYNfBe_ pRr3uvgqP3HqJF2uxIWCOzUTEB.IzmfEkXptG2_Wc12TO2CAZmiffztZwtU_ qDfHOJPPKUoeCQN88CpQ.M.W7svOpLA.c.0uL_DwNOcWBpmvfgnN6Xk1ndH1 u_ego4kUkQLPHM6XQRDGcsY3eMED1DatpKeUAhpnsqINYjL94MMsUJHJSFsB S.V6NYxPEseHyyStk5edFZOY17Rmpyp2zpdc15urJQ1hSf0WhxxC.wK6tbaL SxvGawoH6rBvot.gkx0.HFp18zKoHSCF1DYJWDfdO8OWfN_lzi.87OiBO1CD GCv3GrbayHsf1cKmC5.s81GMVUxeZVAu.ptVfXV7bN4QcaFE.fvHvR728ufX qEZhQFkpQXSrA7pc- References: To: shop-talk@autox.team.net From: steve hochschild Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 10:26:50 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.6.0 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Netflix and U-verse Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============4720457205536361694== boundary="------------080403040409050505050203" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080403040409050505050203 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit We have Uverse as well. If you have Amazon Prime, get a FireTV for under a hundred dollars. You can get NetFlix and thousands pf Amazon Prime films, shows, and music galore - best of all three worlds. Fire TV even has Echo/Alexa as well... On 4/9/2016 10:26 PM, john niolon wrote: > wondering if there is a way to get Netflix thru U-verse... some > limited reading makes me think no... anyone got a work around that > doesn’t involve using my laptop or my phone... love to just turn on > the TV and do it > thanks > john > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/steve@hochschild.org > --------------080403040409050505050203 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit We have Uverse as well.  If you have Amazon Prime, get a FireTV  for under a hundred dollars.  You can get NetFlix and  thousands pf Amazon Prime films, shows, and music galore - best of all three worlds.  Fire TV even has Echo/Alexa as well...

On 4/9/2016 10:26 PM, john niolon wrote:
wondering if there is a way to get Netflix thru U-verse...   some limited reading makes me think no...   anyone got a work around that doesn’t involve using my laptop or my phone...  love to just turn  on the TV and do it
 
thanks
john


_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums

--------------080403040409050505050203-- --===============4720457205536361694== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============4720457205536361694==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 10 13:13:10 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4A072588223 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 13:13:09 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm8-vm8.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (nm8-vm8.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [216.39.63.216]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEDC02588E39 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:43:00 -0600 (MDT) t=1460303456; bh=DurERKpfFfS+fJUExOHNbW0zyTOB8j9dZkN8YdTCTNw=; h=Reply-To:Subject:References:To:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=RQSr+rRsFLx8w18ETP+jYZkTKnvXF2QgLD0VLLZpCW6yhAwemx+vzGrk5/k8iKW0P1Hj2Q45pyEn/TYiLCqsijFIkEZcZkQ5WBuNdAZ7aDaKxfqwOBLE7Bks/QvIfCtrcaqpG3NmpYUscFANs5zLzUwoxguQWqqZii8S8EqJeuc= Received: from [216.39.60.175] by nm8.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Apr 2016 15:50:56 -0000 Received: from [98.138.104.97] by tm11.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Apr 2016 15:50:56 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp117.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Apr 2016 15:50:56 -0000 DJpogcRQB9NP6CcJbeaOvyYS6J0FsaP6Gtj4WP3qxuLC..b3_jtRbAs4c1Tj FdtU43rpxtmlyWsj3vOUO06pBnamDvTqV5eVg9kaOCpB7IOtXxNSe1dVi.Gs yyuu7fBUcUYqBBgBd8UFd1.tx4L3_jKK99zZ_dwxWu0BysYx9_FYbk4UKm5Q Z3Z1mK0tpfPxE3q1iGMAQ_lFBBIMuhC9nVBdINxX301co0DvCMTv3YTPRLSg LyXjyyV_0bY.tWPiVTUUERk3Pzog4E0KcHLJ0z.OPs6SKS_fbo4i5GZaVKq1 RbDb95oHizv9sHPY1A4UAJYfim4GVaVScoj4y3Zw5nikhvsrRIlIPwMlZQdu DqwFKonWGvsaUXV_7Iom47Shjo24ov1DD1UWmx1Atc5dh.RkRcnMfwGiOcbt QVqQub2Ok3UfZYwZTGkmgnwNbGa1GEl6fxpyk75ZQCbYWvYNOx9CKJU12YQa vBdYvyFR2UWhNd1_1s7HQ References: <570927A6.2070700@comcast.net> To: shop-talk@autox.team.net From: steve hochschild Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 10:52:15 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.6.0 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I am raising my hand to mention that I have given up on battery powered tools. I have a huge collection of dead batteries, useless chargers, and drill carcasses that make me mad every time I look at them. I finally realized that all I really wanted was one of those very small battery screwdrivers, under $20, and regular, line-powered drills, etc. So feel free to save hundreds of dollars and for me, huge frustration, by buying an extension cord and a set of plug-in tools. How many dead batteries and useless chargers have we all accumulated in our shops, anyway?? Just an alternative opinion, feel free to ignore... Mr Grumpy On 4/10/2016 8:40 AM, David Scheidt wrote: > On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 11:02 AM, Bob Spidell wrote: >> Folks, >> >> I realize this is like bringing up 'best oil' or 'best tires' on a car list, >> but I'm in the market for a battery drill/driver/sander/etc. combo to >> replace my ancient--but still working--Makita 9V driver-drill. I want >> something with all the 'goodies;' I'll need the usual driver/drill, but also >> need a portable sander (belt and/or disc), and at least the option for more >> attachments. >> >> I know I probably can't lose with DeWalt, Milwaukee, Makita or even >> Craftsman--hell, they might all come out of the same factory in China for >> all I know--but would like to see if there's a consensus on best overall. >> Is more voltage always better, or is 14.4V better for some reason than >> 19.2V, etc.? > Pick the one that comes in the color you like. I like red, so I have > Milwaukee[1]. Consider brushless for your most used tools, they're > lighter and more powerful, and the price differential is getting > smaller. Careful buying kits, and make sure you get the version of > the kit you want.[2] Some kits are good deals, some aren't. > Drill/driver + something kits tend to be good values, as they're sold > on the drug dealer 'first one is free' model. Others are more > expensive than buying the tool and batteries separately. And once > you've got a collection of batteries, you don't need one for every > tool. > > > Modern Li-ion batteries and tools are far superior to Ni-Cad or NiMH > batteries and tools. Li-ion batteries have lower self discharge, so > they stay charged better, and they have higher power densities, so the > batteries last longer. They also have much lower internal > resistance, so tools can take power out of them much faster. That > means the current crop of high-end 12V stuff is better than any 19.2 > nicad tool, in nearly every respect: lighter, smaller, more powerful, > and usually cheaper. The 18V stuff is amazing; my m18 fuel drill > drills holes faster than my corded drill, which is a nice drill that > I've never thought underpowered or slow. > > A note on voltages: the lithium cells used in the battery packs of > these tools have a nominal voltage of 4v, which is closer to 3.6 under > load. The 12V tools use 3 cells in series, the 18v tools use 5. > (Dewalt's 20V stuff is 18V, the 20 is just marketing to make it sound > better.) High capacity packs have two sets of cells in parallel. > Name brand batteries have a pretty good life, and seem to last two to > three years in professional use. > > > [1]The actual reason i have Milwaukee tools is that I used to work > with people who had them, and it meant I could borrow a tool I didn't > own, and use my batteries on it. > > [2] I recently bought a drill/impact set. The version with the > previous generation tools was still widely available, as was the early > version of the kit I got, which came with lower capacity batteries. > Both were more expensive... > _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 10 13:59:00 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9B0D2587A0A for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 13:59:00 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-po-02v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-po-02v.sys.comcast.net [96.114.154.161]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 814562588B17 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 10:54:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-po-01v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.225]) by comcast with SMTP id pIjpaxDXLGhQ0pIkEadZwn; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 17:01:54 +0000 s=q20140121; t=1460307714; bh=TnDeK3QVRw4RjEk6hTTF4wzviwEmB9k9r2P0QliOHWo=; h=Received:Received:Subject:To:From:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=YPOSr4wqWFSNJJb9PTq6D8teb216cwjfw/UQzU0oYYJTT4/QWi2rdAAA1JN+UNBDD pKVeTt+5sCJmDrToEqWNY8DqS/Olju36gDVnSsizmmWgjVxpSlgxq07Gf7So2FvhQ/ U9h4NE5A/vkJq+4umF2qOTc2UAZpERLBjaMuV6TvjbwSSAA8eKNElj4gzqKXcpyaTV qAKjpVQvpkzMHUpp7UGG2WPlo12hiS5KpMfEKIvOklavDZWKGOVIQN982mUrpnUJO/ tJHRqDCbHYtjsqWLmqGON3vlBOGBuGeRU8yFB7p3czn7AuEwzwRuBWr8L6DA3Cc+/D /AbYjHfQn0BMQ== Received: from [IPv6:2601:646:8900:1ddf:4434:416b:3f4d:2206] ([IPv6:2601:646:8900:1ddf:4434:416b:3f4d:2206]) by resomta-po-01v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id gh1t1s00E4651lz01h1tQd; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 17:01:54 +0000 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <570927A6.2070700@comcast.net> From: Bob Spidell Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 10:02:04 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thanks for all the tips and advice, folks. Got enough info to move on. Bob On 4/9/2016 9:02 AM, Bob Spidell wrote: > Folks, > > I realize this is like bringing up 'best oil' or 'best tires' on a car > list, but I'm in the market for a battery drill/driver/sander/etc. > combo to replace my ancient--but still working--Makita 9V > driver-drill. I want something with all the 'goodies;' I'll need the > usual driver/drill, but also need a portable sander (belt and/or > disc), and at least the option for more attachments. > > I know I probably can't lose with DeWalt, Milwaukee, Makita or even > Craftsman--hell, they might all come out of the same factory in China > for all I know--but would like to see if there's a consensus on best > overall. Is more voltage always better, or is 14.4V better for some > reason than 19.2V, etc.? My main issue, and the reason I haven't > retired the old Makita yet, is that the batteries always seem to lose > capacity over time. The 9V Makita is nickel-metal-hydride, and both > the OEM--which are too expensive IMO--and cheap, off-brand aftermarket > ones all lose charge when not used, and lose capacity after repeated > charging. I know Li-Ion is better, but a battery is a battery, and > they all will lose some capacity over time. > > Any and all opinions, rants, etc. welcome. > > Bob > > > _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 10 16:53:33 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B91D425850F9 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 16:53:33 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from itonami.pair.com (itonami.pair.com [209.68.2.178]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3796F25888E2 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 12:11:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by itonami.pair.com (Postfix, from userid 3198) id 049518FC1B; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 14:19:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by itonami.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 040088FC1A; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 14:19:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 14:19:47 -0400 (EDT) From: David Hillman To: john niolon References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.02 (BSF 1266 2009-07-14) Cc: shop-talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Netflix and U-verse Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Sat, 9 Apr 2016, john niolon wrote: > wondering if there is a way to get Netflix thru U-verse... some > limited reading makes me think no... anyone got a work around that > doesn?t involve using my laptop or my phone... love to just turn on > the TV and do it What, exactly, do you mean by "U-verse"? U-verse TV, or U-verse Internet? If you can get one, you can get both, and the latter is just a broadband connection... it doesn't care what you watch over that link. So get a smart TV ( or add an adapter to your existing set ), connect it to your home network, and watch Netflix or anything else on the Internet on your TV. If you want a Netflix channel to show up in your U-verse Guide, yeah, good luck with that. I doubt that's possible. -- David Hillman _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 10 17:24:32 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A62B25883D2 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 17:24:32 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mr11p24im-asmtp004.me.com (mr11p24im-asmtp004.me.com [17.110.78.110]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34086258832A for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 13:35:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.50.64] (unknown [184.105.18.14]) by mr11p24im-asmtp004.me.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7.0.5.36.0 64bit (built Sep 8 2015)) with ESMTPSA id <0O5F00LVFO3UNL40@mr11p24im-asmtp004.me.com> for shop-talk@autox.team.net; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 19:43:08 +0000 (GMT) definitions=2016-04-10_11:,, signatures=0 clxscore=1011 suspectscore=1 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1510270003 definitions=main-1604100296 References: <570927A6.2070700@comcast.net> <570A76AF.4090800@att.net> From: Pat Horne Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 14:43:05 -0500 To: steve@hochschild.org Cc: shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Dear Mr. Grumpy.....I like that! One of the hobbiest mags did a survey & found that home use didn't need expensive, heavy drill/drivers & could get by with a 12v unit. If you don't use the tools for work or at least weekly, extension cords make a lot of sense. Peace, Pat (My grandkids refer to me as Grumpa Pat) Pat Horne We support Caldwell County Habitat for Humanity On Apr 10, 2016, at 10:52 AM, steve hochschild wrote: I am raising my hand to mention that I have given up on battery powered tools. I have a huge collection of dead batteries, useless chargers, and drill carcasses that make me mad every time I look at them. I finally realized that all I really wanted was one of those very small battery screwdrivers, under $20, and regular, line-powered drills, etc. So feel free to save hundreds of dollars and for me, huge frustration, by buying an extension cord and a set of plug-in tools. How many dead batteries and useless chargers have we all accumulated in our shops, anyway?? Just an alternative opinion, feel free to ignore... Mr Grumpy _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 10 17:42:35 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9016F25885FA for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 17:42:35 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from homiemail-a69.g.dreamhost.com (sub5.mail.dreamhost.com [208.113.200.129]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52A802588363 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 13:41:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from homiemail-a69.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a69.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FC5E400E513A for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 12:49:29 -0700 (PDT) :content-type:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:references:to :in-reply-to; s=groupwbench.org; bh=cvZEwrygL54qQy5OV690zzJ3HfE=; b= Z/023FmRkLe/GtVvKHhrfLYccdWd/+WkIBm8Mkcn8f0bvpolyj1dEMHEkVpQ2gm/ W0Mo8lnFGmvrphQvvcU2aufM32mi5ho+I7prhJA5kUfIedMZj3/Ibl/GP9wsCs9c CF0MJoSqJcsx6HreuxRuOKwPHFb68jA78t9s8awPETQ= Received: from jims-imac.home (pool-98-118-109-236.bstnma.fios.verizon.net [98.118.109.236]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jamesf@groupwbench.org) by homiemail-a69.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D18DB400E510F for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 12:49:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Franklin Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 15:49:26 -0400 References: <570927A6.2070700@comcast.net> <570A76AF.4090800@att.net> To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============3528242403678131846== --Apple-Mail=_97E2AE02-224F-4D6F-9153-EEAA65D16CCE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=us-ascii On Apr 10, 2016, at 11:52 AM, steve hochschild = wrote: > How many dead batteries and useless chargers have we all accumulated = in our shops, anyway?? Just an alternative opinion, feel free to = ignore... A valid concern, but I've had my B&D 14.4v drill for at least 20 years. = Replaced the batteries once along with the motor, and the batteries are = dead again, and the plastic housing is cracked and held together with = safety wire. I's day that's a good lifetime. Thanks for the timely thread, I'm also in the market.=20 jim= --Apple-Mail=_97E2AE02-224F-4D6F-9153-EEAA65D16CCE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=us-ascii
On Apr 10, 2016, at 11:52 AM, steve = hochschild <steve-hochschild@att.net> = wrote:

How many dead batteries and useless = chargers have we all accumulated in our shops, anyway??  Just an = alternative opinion, feel free to = ignore...

A valid concern, but I've = had my B&D 14.4v drill for at least 20 years. Replaced the batteries = once along with the motor, and the batteries are dead again, and the = plastic housing is cracked and held together with safety wire. I's day = that's a good lifetime.

Thanks for the timely = thread, I'm also in the = market. 

jim
= --Apple-Mail=_97E2AE02-224F-4D6F-9153-EEAA65D16CCE-- --===============3528242403678131846== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============3528242403678131846==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 10 18:00:57 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB57625883EC for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 18:00:57 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cdptpa-oedge-vip.email.rr.com (cdptpa-outbound-snat.email.rr.com [107.14.166.227]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2727258836D for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 13:42:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.248.153.253] ([172.248.153.253:4608] helo=rypc) by cdptpa-oedge01 (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.5.0.35861 r(Momo-dev:tip)) with ESMTP id 45/82-12718-1AEAA075; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 19:50:58 +0000 From: "Randall" To: Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 12:50:58 -0700 Thread-Index: AdGTXxmIdSlF95YGTWKRpikqVFxYHgAAHKzg Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > How many dead batteries and useless chargers have we all > accumulated in > our shops, anyway?? And how many flashlight batteries have I thrown away? Same concept; batteries are consumables even when they are rechargeable. I have a full set of corded tools; when I need to do some serious hole creation I dig out the old Milwaukee "Hole Shooter" and however much cord is needed. But 99% of the time, I still grab the cordless drill. Kind of lost track, the pair of batteries I just got might be my 4th set in 20+ years (and yes, I save the old ones for no apparent reason); but the convenience is worth the price IMO. And at under $10/year (two no-name batteries were under $50), the cost seems reasonable. Come to think of it, I've got more dead cell phones than dead battery packs Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 10 18:18:42 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B86792587956 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 18:18:42 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-io0-f169.google.com (mail-io0-f169.google.com [209.85.223.169]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55BF9258838E for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 13:52:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-io0-f169.google.com with SMTP id g185so185949696ioa.2 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 13:00:12 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc; bh=CyOvzPzVvjsWTqTh5eV09nZQ4Ng6dvKpHjqr9ram3gE=; b=XvPq13v2op4zoc+PQgVMM49zMZAPs9BYkX2lkmFsovm8/TekJAPMc88PGuAzFt7ixo VU31yEm88qDqb3+uFbQqaEctJGeFcFCdlfCJJkOHm1iqVOhvL1LjqvubsxBD/vWw0TbC SV74Lc2gRqpLD4gQCffeK+vaBPTMqwv562Deu0JPQmmxZJQ+yrcZdzlzXeZtIMGd6Ht0 3KFy6EHAl/DSzQV2gJrYwZLUpgWzKxWsBZiK8oUs7jMl25vN6Z42QHyxJHUcHiiOhlKZ WxRNwwLgxtnJ90X+qzGvPfFzsBeG04aD+/vsYX2y0D2G6LG/xn9kr7IdWfwbdRqwqulX 6KXA== d=parkanzky-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc; bh=CyOvzPzVvjsWTqTh5eV09nZQ4Ng6dvKpHjqr9ram3gE=; b=e8ntFwvNJJQQxWpzIJjAr4qpRtmQ5OzYMdrSMsTrbuGj5seTm/lL7/cDHE5PyaK/hJ /2qz3CKgdTTqHsNWUoqaNoGvsSLdKKXzon1v9GWvXKIckNJceiLtlNWo3pYk3kDzRM13 Ag84oPQSlQNwJ/NVsvZ2gG5FPdZcr8c5YNo8tqSzjVBOD7kh2H5TOoNuKlGVfrKR9Huh Z4L+ZyMDmugkELZyuge3bkxuoJE5d2vbZETuqxl+Ef0zqWKOCqtfIu8rJFgIF1KyPMN6 uoZAX+/0c93tYl8wv87Y1TCRJdCeMjosfFHaMjg0S1yUcA17VDyDo72B6nFZFu/gkaJE Nyxw== d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc; bh=CyOvzPzVvjsWTqTh5eV09nZQ4Ng6dvKpHjqr9ram3gE=; b=B3V2izRcKz5zn3I+hRj8ouJKZZvgOFxtGFArMaBezdTbziVb8/kdTmPObt78QaFX24 UdpLH04NQtZ2ujqnH089YzNgWx1oFoViWohqwU9o/PGQHu3F0DFS1SUhY4qBEY/bsXBy RO5913iczqZad3kNqKaJQEdu7ds4Y59pDCvX7hooGu3AzC93D/Zn1Y5HreE8GQZbwK39 ktq+R1DncmbKU8J40m735uxjLf47LLOe9hCenvvVJj2CI2V6m2mQbezMNyJdbHYLdDza 3p1Ot/uKiJ8AWdnwxI91I7SYiG0QxyO79Qg05NXsp4VYOdz0Ih0qZ/ZYhQ2t2WP7Z5dD xzQg== Sun, 10 Apr 2016 13:00:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.79.12.141 with HTTP; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 13:00:06 -0700 (PDT) References: <570927A6.2070700@comcast.net> <570A76AF.4090800@att.net> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 16:00:06 -0400 From: Paul Parkanzky To: steve@hochschild.org Cc: shop-talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============0407941285372870072== --94eb2c05d26cdf15ec053026df01 You may have given up too soon. Have you tried modern Li-Ion tools? My experiences were like yours until the latest generation. But now I couldn't be happier after quite a long service life. -Paul On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 11:52 AM, steve hochschild wrote: > I am raising my hand to mention that I have given up on battery powered > tools. I have a huge collection of dead batteries, useless chargers, and > drill carcasses that make me mad every time I look at them. I finally > realized that all I really wanted was one of those very small battery > screwdrivers, under $20, and regular, line-powered drills, etc. > > So feel free to save hundreds of dollars and for me, huge frustration, by > buying an extension cord and a set of plug-in tools. > > How many dead batteries and useless chargers have we all accumulated in > our shops, anyway?? Just an alternative opinion, feel free to ignore... > > Mr Grumpy > > > > On 4/10/2016 8:40 AM, David Scheidt wrote: > >> On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 11:02 AM, Bob Spidell >> wrote: >> >>> Folks, >>> >>> I realize this is like bringing up 'best oil' or 'best tires' on a car >>> list, >>> but I'm in the market for a battery drill/driver/sander/etc. combo to >>> replace my ancient--but still working--Makita 9V driver-drill. I want >>> something with all the 'goodies;' I'll need the usual driver/drill, but >>> also >>> need a portable sander (belt and/or disc), and at least the option for >>> more >>> attachments. >>> >>> I know I probably can't lose with DeWalt, Milwaukee, Makita or even >>> Craftsman--hell, they might all come out of the same factory in China for >>> all I know--but would like to see if there's a consensus on best overall. >>> Is more voltage always better, or is 14.4V better for some reason than >>> 19.2V, etc.? >>> >> Pick the one that comes in the color you like. I like red, so I have >> Milwaukee[1]. Consider brushless for your most used tools, they're >> lighter and more powerful, and the price differential is getting >> smaller. Careful buying kits, and make sure you get the version of >> the kit you want.[2] Some kits are good deals, some aren't. >> Drill/driver + something kits tend to be good values, as they're sold >> on the drug dealer 'first one is free' model. Others are more >> expensive than buying the tool and batteries separately. And once >> you've got a collection of batteries, you don't need one for every >> tool. >> >> >> Modern Li-ion batteries and tools are far superior to Ni-Cad or NiMH >> batteries and tools. Li-ion batteries have lower self discharge, so >> they stay charged better, and they have higher power densities, so the >> batteries last longer. They also have much lower internal >> resistance, so tools can take power out of them much faster. That >> means the current crop of high-end 12V stuff is better than any 19.2 >> nicad tool, in nearly every respect: lighter, smaller, more powerful, >> and usually cheaper. The 18V stuff is amazing; my m18 fuel drill >> drills holes faster than my corded drill, which is a nice drill that >> I've never thought underpowered or slow. >> >> A note on voltages: the lithium cells used in the battery packs of >> these tools have a nominal voltage of 4v, which is closer to 3.6 under >> load. The 12V tools use 3 cells in series, the 18v tools use 5. >> (Dewalt's 20V stuff is 18V, the 20 is just marketing to make it sound >> better.) High capacity packs have two sets of cells in parallel. >> Name brand batteries have a pretty good life, and seem to last two to >> three years in professional use. >> >> >> [1]The actual reason i have Milwaukee tools is that I used to work >> with people who had them, and it meant I could borrow a tool I didn't >> own, and use my batteries on it. >> >> [2] I recently bought a drill/impact set. The version with the >> previous generation tools was still widely available, as was the early >> version of the kit I got, which came with lower capacity batteries. >> Both were more expensive... >> >> > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/parkanzky@gmail.com > > --94eb2c05d26cdf15ec053026df01 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
You may have given up too soon.=C2=A0 Have you tried moder= n Li-Ion tools?=C2=A0 My experiences were like yours until the latest gener= ation.=C2=A0 But now I couldn't be happier after quite a long service l= ife.

-Paul

On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 11:52 AM, steve hochschild = <steve-hochschild@att.net> wrote:
I am raising my hand to mention that I have given up on batt= ery powered tools.=C2=A0 I have a huge collection of dead batteries, useles= s chargers, and drill carcasses that make me mad every time I look at them.= =C2=A0 I finally realized that all I really wanted was one of those very sm= all battery screwdrivers, under $20, and regular, line-powered drills, etc.=

So feel free to save hundreds of dollars and for me, huge frustration, by b= uying an extension cord and a set of plug-in tools.

How many dead batteries and useless chargers have we all accumulated in our= shops, anyway??=C2=A0 Just an alternative opinion, feel free to ignore...<= br>
Mr Grumpy



On 4/10/2016 8:40 AM, David Scheidt wrote:
On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 11:02 AM, Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net> wrote:
Folks,

I realize this is like bringing up 'best oil' or 'best tires= 9; on a car list,
but I'm in the market for a battery drill/driver/sander/etc. combo to replace my ancient--but still working--Makita 9V driver-drill.=C2=A0 I want=
something with all the 'goodies;' I'll need the usual driver/dr= ill, but also
need a portable sander (belt and/or disc), and at least the option for more=
attachments.

I know I probably can't lose with DeWalt, Milwaukee, Makita or even
Craftsman--hell, they might all come out of the same factory in China for all I know--but would like to see if there's a consensus on best overal= l.
Is more voltage always better, or is 14.4V better for some reason than
19.2V, etc.?
Pick the one that comes in the color you like.=C2=A0 I like red, so I have<= br> Milwaukee[1].=C2=A0 Consider brushless for your most used tools, they'r= e
lighter and more powerful, and the price differential is getting
smaller.=C2=A0 Careful buying kits, and make sure you get the version of the kit you want.[2] Some kits are good deals, some aren't.
Drill/driver + something kits tend to be good values, as they're sold on the drug dealer 'first one is free' model.=C2=A0 Others are more=
expensive than buying the tool and batteries separately.=C2=A0 And once
you've got a collection of batteries, you don't need one for every<= br> tool.


Modern Li-ion batteries and tools are far superior to Ni-Cad or NiMH
batteries and tools.=C2=A0 Li-ion batteries have lower self discharge, so they stay charged better, and they have higher power densities, so the
batteries last longer.=C2=A0 =C2=A0They also have much lower internal
resistance, so tools can take power out of them much faster.=C2=A0 That
means the current crop of high-end 12V stuff is better than any 19.2
nicad tool, in nearly every respect: lighter, smaller, more powerful,
and usually cheaper.=C2=A0 The 18V stuff is amazing; my m18 fuel drill
drills holes faster than my corded drill, which is a nice drill that
I've never thought underpowered or slow.

A note on voltages:=C2=A0 the lithium cells used in the battery packs of these tools have a nominal voltage of 4v, which is closer to 3.6 under
load.=C2=A0 The 12V tools use 3 cells in series, the 18v tools use 5.
(Dewalt's 20V stuff is 18V, the 20 is just marketing to make it sound better.)=C2=A0 High capacity packs have two sets of cells in parallel.
Name brand batteries have a pretty good life, and seem to last two to
three years in professional use.


[1]The actual reason i have Milwaukee tools is that I used to work
with people who had them, and it meant I could borrow a tool I didn't own, and use my batteries on it.

[2] I recently bought a drill/impact set.=C2=A0 The version with the
previous generation tools was still widely available, as was the early
version of the kit I got, which came with lower capacity batteries.
Both were more expensive...


_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
alk/parkanzky@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.= team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/parkanzky@gmail.com


--94eb2c05d26cdf15ec053026df01-- --===============0407941285372870072== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============0407941285372870072==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 10 19:29:16 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C115B2584ACF for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 19:29:16 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail.milleredp.com (fw.milleredp.com [198.144.208.110]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DE6E25868FE for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 15:28:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [10.1.2.100] ([::ffff:10.1.2.100]) (AUTH: PLAIN jem, TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,128bits,AES128-SHA) by mail.milleredp.com with ESMTPSA; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 14:36:24 -0700 id 00000000002800AD.00000000570AC758.000010F0 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <570927A6.2070700@comcast.net> <570A76AF.4090800@att.net> From: John Miller Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 14:36:22 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On 4/10/2016 8:52 AM, steve hochschild wrote: > I am raising my hand to mention that I have given up on battery powered > tools. I have a huge collection of dead batteries, useless chargers, > and drill carcasses that make me mad every time I look at them. I > finally realized that all I really wanted was one of those very small > battery screwdrivers, under $20, and regular, line-powered drills, etc. I agree that it's unfortunate that the batteries eventually die, and there can be a DRAMATIC difference in battery life between good ones and cheap replacements. My first 'real' cordless tool was a 9.6V Makita drill, purchased at the recently-opened Price Club sometime back in the Reagan Administration I think, and on two battery packs it lasted well into its obsolescence though for power it was not remotely competitive with a decent corded drill. From there I picked up a used 14V Milwaukee nicad drill off eBay for almost nothing (it was SERIOUSLY ugly), and a couple new battery packs, and that thing did three years of seriously hard work until I dropped it from the top of a 15 foot ladder onto a concrete slab. At that point my brother-in-law gave me his 14V DeWalt set, and I bought another, and ended up with two drills and five batteries total. Destroyed one of the drills and one of the batteries IIRC in various mishaps over the subsequent decade, still have three batteries with useful capacity. In the meantime I'd picked up an 18V Milwaukee sawzall with two batteries, which while nowhere near as powerful as the corded one did tons of useful work though both the original batteries petered out within about five years. Tried a couple cheap no-name eBay replacements and they lasted about six months each. Nicads like to be cycled and the tools used more often seem to get better battery life. I've recently picked up a 20V DeWalt Li-Ion drill and the 'shorty' DeWalt recip saw that has the motor bent down at a 45-degree angle. Both are very powerful, as well as lighter (why I never bought an 18V nicad drill, the 14.4V was heavy enough) and the biggest problem I have with either is that the speed control on the recip saw trigger is not progressive enough. Currently have 2 2amp batteries and 1 5amp and it's good to be able to cycle all the batteries on all the tools though the 2amp batteries don't last very long when you're chopping up tree branches for the recycling bin. Too early in the ownership cycle to say much about battery life on those. John. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 10 21:18:39 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10BC82584716 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 21:18:39 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail.milleredp.com (fw.milleredp.com [198.144.208.110]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F54F2588262 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 18:28:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [10.1.2.100] ([::ffff:10.1.2.100]) (AUTH: PLAIN jem, TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,128bits,AES128-SHA) by mail.milleredp.com with ESMTPSA; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 17:36:10 -0700 id 00000000002800AD.00000000570AF17A.00001E24 References: <570AF162.6060807@milleredp.com> To: shop-talk@autox.team.net From: John Miller Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 17:36:10 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > I have a full set of corded tools; when I need to do some serious hole creation I dig out the old Milwaukee "Hole Shooter" and > however much cord is needed. The disposable stuff is still better corded; the Harbor Freight 'Chicago Electric' angle grinder is still one of mankind's greater bargains, I've bought close to a dozen over the past decade and a half, one or two have died for various reasons, I've killed one or two accidentally or intentionally, I've got about six in the drawer right now. For $20 or so you can, when necessary (as I've done) sacrifice one to some higher purpose (go to drawer and select one of your ten-year-old HF grinders, wrench on tile blade, don thick rubber gloves, turn on hose, instant hand-held wet-saw to cut vent hole in brickwork around barbecue. It finished the job before expiring. I made the sign of the cross before committing the red-dust-encrusted hulk to the garbage can, it had lived an honorable life and deserved a decent burial.) And I wouldn't trust at this point any battery-fueled Cheap Chinese brands without a five-year track record of battery life. My expectation of a Harbor Freight cordless - or even low-end store-brands, in which alas I have to include Craftsman these days - would be a year or two. John. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 10 22:09:50 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B38832587D60 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 22:09:50 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.67]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B43AC25885E8 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 19:31:41 -0600 (MDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=gT0NqShCy2nby3vw7ZGcotzKu8KEUh6zDb16YkXMhv0U38gAnHsh8nNtoz8vrOLF; h=Received:Subject:To:References:From:Message-ID:Date:User-Agent:MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [172.6.8.121] (helo=[192.168.1.3]) by elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1apQpA-00039A-ND for shop-talk@autox.team.net; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 21:39:32 -0400 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <570927A6.2070700@comcast.net> From: Brian Kemp Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 18:38:11 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.0 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Don't forget to pay attention to the capacity of the battery packs. The entry level Makita comes with a 1AH battery. For a little more, you can get the next step with a 3AH battery. Also watch for sales and "special buys" on replacement batteries. After I fried a battery pack using a cordless drill to mix thinset, I found the Orange box had 3AH batteries at $99 for a two pack - the same price as a single battery in the regular package. I got lucky that week if finding one still in the store - had to hunt as it was in the wrong place behind something else. The worker said the contractors had bought them all up in the first few days. I once bought a replacement Dewalt 12V drill at Costco just for the two battery packs, only to find out they were less capacity and ran out real quick. Bummer there. I thought Rigid cordless tools had lifetime battery replacement if you registered them. That sounds like a good deal if there isn't fine print to get the replacement. Brian On 4/9/2016 9:02 AM, Bob Spidell wrote: > Folks, > > I realize this is like bringing up 'best oil' or 'best tires' on a car > list, but I'm in the market for a battery drill/driver/sander/etc. > combo to replace my ancient--but still working--Makita 9V > driver-drill. I want something with all the 'goodies;' I'll need the > usual driver/drill, but also need a portable sander (belt and/or > disc), and at least the option for more attachments. > > I know I probably can't lose with DeWalt, Milwaukee, Makita or even > Craftsman--hell, they might all come out of the same factory in China > for all I know--but would like to see if there's a consensus on best > overall. Is more voltage always better, or is 14.4V better for some > reason than 19.2V, etc.? My main issue, and the reason I haven't > retired the old Makita yet, is that the batteries always seem to lose > capacity over time. The 9V Makita is nickel-metal-hydride, and both > the OEM--which are too expensive IMO--and cheap, off-brand aftermarket > ones all lose charge when not used, and lose capacity after repeated > charging. I know Li-Ion is better, but a battery is a battery, and > they all will lose some capacity over time. > > Any and all opinions, rants, etc. welcome. > > Bob > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13@earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 10 22:28:05 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9A60258870F for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 22:28:05 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm14-vm5.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (nm14-vm5.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [216.39.63.132]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F3132588682 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 19:48:09 -0600 (MDT) t=1460339765; bh=CNhRMSTBltqNf/IJGOTTsYTrMPGyHB71F5S1+a/tHVg=; h=From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=ql5ItNmJN8TJ9IfM3FruKlab+GuXs1V192ifBsYr4LvCXkHKqI6VxJVtGC8ue72365o5UmQ8nqrOT8uY0FvQq1o+8g89EB1YBmqpl9pzVpi+2VFBJgU6gqSNJBJC4sNFMbhZHEZEInkgodSxiP0/W3byxopwJSgiMjytvkZ/G9U= Received: from [216.39.60.176] by nm14.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Apr 2016 01:56:05 -0000 Received: from [67.195.22.116] by tm12.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Apr 2016 01:56:05 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp111.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Apr 2016 01:56:05 -0000 BWUA8pgjrLAv9zHG_K8FUWuxuNrTorJT9qV7.n7UPuf1UN0rKWcnXgC9O.Eg 0vrHALwDNSY3ajphcmk9Ss0qdh24AzLlpQY2i23YlrOFCOVCSHE9SemWoMNr pSCtyV458zfx2WStkouqEbN1sG2D.HonohaYXEwNY937rnY5Me7hXfgzaF5f cnGEaFCSz0Ak0f7lXqxhs.8sYH0mryNFlyeUpRdR9_ESPQLp0XNeFcp_m5ze NUSatLyzehh2SsBZc_0xPVUX1uGSY4iCXl2qq9MpUoyLdVE9ao2ICP5z5bx3 6VX6YOPBIY05KIWeHfnB0.m_T8gAXISXXO7imueujINYcMNS6_SrjQzIVmIT 4N2u89o_hvPLt8fQimhrfZQx3sk5JhYnZYKJ2dd0asS0H6QW4G5InpXLeDtL GPDAkPx72mu4A2T6AWFcRBzC7xdvZm7qc8Ty1Tbrc.5fD.wuKsBVnM4Eqvx4 Tw9IVVlcmXxPSyj4wc.VlVcva2Ftvh9K.baeSNKk3Jb5D4XZjjVaeHnA- From: "john niolon" To: "Battmain" , "shop-talk" References: <1283672988.346253.1460319687351.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 20:55:46 -0500 Importance: Normal Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Netflix and U-verse Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============6098100143795149671== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005F_01D1936B.5B28A870" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005F_01D1936B.5B28A870 charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Brian, et al thanks for the detail... I forgot my TV has a wireless hookup... could = never get it to work so forgot about it... I=E2=80=99ve installed an = extender lately and the TV grabbed it right away.. 4 bars and Netflix = got the hook up... thanks all for the info... and I didn=E2=80=99t have to buy anything = extra... I=E2=80=99m liking that part. john From: Battmain=20 Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 3:21 PM To: john niolon=20 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Netflix and U-verse Netflix just uses the internet to stream the shows. U-verse is ATT's = brand of both internet and tv bundle. Depending on what you're using = Netflix on, there are several ways to get it to the TV. Previously = mentioned Roku boxes, Amazon Fire box/stick, even a laptop or PC. All of = the boxes and phones, connect to the TV somehow. Think video out and = video in on the TV. That's all those boxes are doing. I've run = streamed movies from the laptop to the tv. Works fine. Although I have = a good dual core router, it balks sometimes on wireless, so when you're = streaming, might be best to hook up the ethernet cable to the device if = possible. The other option which you're looking for (turn on TV and = watch) is to get a 'smart' tv. It has the app built in to get netflix = directly on the TV instead of using previously mentioned devices. So = several ways to get what you want. I'm still leery of 'smart' TV's = because some of them have cameras built in, and the security isn't that = good. Brian -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: john niolon To: shop-talk =20 Sent: Saturday, April 9, 2016 11:26 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] Netflix and U-verse wondering if there is a way to get Netflix thru U-verse... some = limited reading makes me think no... anyone got a work around that = doesn=E2=80=99t involve using my laptop or my phone... love to just = turn on the TV and do it thanks john _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: = http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/battmain@yahoo.com ------=_NextPart_000_005F_01D1936B.5B28A870 charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Brian, et al
thanks for the detail... I forgot my TV has a wireless hookup... = could=20 never get it to work so forgot about it... I=E2=80=99ve installed an = extender lately and=20 the TV grabbed it right away.. 4 bars and Netflix got the hook = up...
 
thanks all for the info...  and I didn=E2=80=99t have to buy = anything extra...=20 I=E2=80=99m liking that part.
 
john
 
From: Battmain
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Netflix and = U-verse
 
Netflix just uses the = internet to=20 stream the shows. U-verse is ATT's brand of both internet and tv = bundle. =20 Depending on what you're using Netflix on, there are several ways to get = it to=20 the TV. Previously mentioned Roku boxes, Amazon Fire box/stick, even a = laptop or=20 PC. All of the boxes and phones, connect to the TV somehow. Think video = out and=20 video in on the TV.  That's all those boxes are doing.  I've = run=20 streamed movies from the laptop to the tv. Works fine.  Although I = have a=20 good dual core router, it balks sometimes on wireless, so when you're = streaming,=20 might be best to hook up the ethernet cable to the device if possible. = The other=20 option which you're looking for (turn on TV and watch) is to get a = 'smart' tv.=20 It has the app built in to get netflix directly on the TV instead of = using=20 previously mentioned devices. So several ways to get what you = want.  I'm=20 still leery of 'smart' TV's because some of them have cameras built in, = and the=20 security isn't that good.

Brian


From: john niolon=20 <jniolon@att.net>
To: shop-talk=20 <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, April 9, 2016 = 11:26=20 PM
Subject: [Shop-talk] Netflix = and=20 U-verse
 
wondering if there is = a way to=20 get Netflix thru U-verse...   some limited reading makes me = think=20 no...   anyone got a work around that doesn=E2=80=99t = involve using my=20 laptop or my phone...  love to just turn  on the TV and do = it
 
thanks
=
john

______________________________= _________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net<= BR>Donate:=20 http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested = annual=20 donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage: = http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/battmain@= yahoo.com



<= /DIV>
------=_NextPart_000_005F_01D1936B.5B28A870-- --===============6098100143795149671== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============6098100143795149671==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 10 23:32:35 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE0172588CD3 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 23:32:34 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-po-09v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-po-09v.sys.comcast.net [96.114.154.168]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04DB025854A0 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2016 21:09:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-po-17v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.241]) by comcast with SMTP id pSLzaiO05d826pSM0a7nbo; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 03:17:32 +0000 s=q20140121; t=1460344652; bh=Txyh30DKVQV5E6X1iAVnqGSDa+JbQMiF6R/TDiWEDxs=; h=Received:Received:Subject:To:From:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=meUtMwj8I+pkUB6mcScx+QbkUEEaUF+OWvazkrHU/b5Lumh4jUBKG/C5muEwyhqCN qIVqJVoGiPHwDdSeb+HeyvZtjpqOxgo3bTe17EsNku25LCeoDxyTr6eHLYoBb115RC h18Pess4avrqnQmKiIpPdwG+a3wvcaaLt0d2DLsGsU/xBkPxpCFRfMVj8qpq7OJfOB Tu4UlLKI9TvlmULo7uQfkq49EZZJiu36/6mPKKlFoOjVSc+Ee0DrszswjNw4vjrK+M FMpuEpYvpCsOnYZolFOBNqlfCuZIvE4jjmVoHH85KTVD14gDhmombK0T7ojem5e7pY ZF3UpWinufJVQ== Received: from [IPv6:2601:646:8900:1ddf:7413:b67:55c9:445] ([IPv6:2601:646:8900:1ddf:7413:b67:55c9:445]) by resomta-po-17v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id grHX1s00R2hlcM001rHYfz; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 03:17:32 +0000 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <570927A6.2070700@comcast.net> <570A76AF.4090800@att.net> <570AC756.2020702@milleredp.com> From: Bob Spidell Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 20:17:42 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wow ... this topic is right up there with politics and proving more interesting and amusing than expected. What a classy list (JK). One aspect that isn't mentioned--and it's 'philosophical' more than technical (well, maybe not)--is disposal of the batteries. I only have a couple years of chemistry but know enough to know that all battery chemistries are bad news for the environment, on both ends (I'm no greenie; I own two old British sports cars). In fact, as I near the end of my warranty--I'm 62 soon-to-be 63--I find myself more concerned about not leaving too big a mess behind; so that will enter into my buying decision. The vote for tethered use is compelling; I've thought that way at times myself. If you don't have a charged battery on hand, it's quicker to untangle the extension cord anyway, if power is available. On 4/10/2016 2:36 PM, John Miller wrote: > On 4/10/2016 8:52 AM, steve hochschild wrote: >> I am raising my hand to mention that I have given up on battery powered >> tools. I have a huge collection of dead batteries, useless chargers, >> and drill carcasses that make me mad every time I look at them. I >> finally realized that all I really wanted was one of those very small >> battery screwdrivers, under $20, and regular, line-powered drills, etc. > > > _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 11 05:06:03 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADE02258856B for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 05:06:03 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from BAY004-OMC1S4.hotmail.com (bay004-omc1s4.hotmail.com [65.54.190.15]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C79462588533 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 05:02:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from NAM03-BY2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com ([65.54.190.60]) by BAY004-OMC1S4.hotmail.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.23008); Mon, 11 Apr 2016 04:10:00 -0700 s=selector1; h=From:To:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=9d0KsbbCJlam9Iw9u+/AiSFHUDdjIYQUsLmtjfo0tIc=; b=r5M9xTB+X+QC9Rz+nmlaDt4TmZ9qZ+cziCsLhlFpyb0vCCyf1vKoisALntw6jjKhVlT9+GNfzJRyrgKClw9GJRPX27EI5n2UBxMopPp7utFTvnoYFy3POLdM0eNXKLV46insJ0Tj1z+tNCRmNtxI6zo4GtJ3wiDpKsxvJKpug24FSUHtAQ2i9zl4NXxi49lHDptfRhBpe2icozfHcTWvc3ei3ffIHQETiyPOjh1CxfPt3G4+kA7j9BE6n4lPKRD4CWvKIKwBwBGsai5eX28Xdw8szgFY4svYgYDCzH9HAjtMejn0cSfWWnpJWAOveRKcunU6oRVT23iyeXrdZdwjAQ== Received: from DM3NAM03FT017.eop-NAM03.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.82.53) by DM3NAM03HT239.eop-NAM03.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.83.39) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.453.6; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:10:00 +0000 Received: from SN1PR13MB0542.namprd13.prod.outlook.com (10.152.82.57) by DM3NAM03FT017.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.82.201) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.453.6 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:09:59 +0000 Received: from SN1PR13MB0542.namprd13.prod.outlook.com ([10.164.27.152]) by SN1PR13MB0542.namprd13.prod.outlook.com ([10.164.27.152]) with mapi id 15.01.0466.017; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:09:59 +0000 From: "Tim ." To: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Thread-Topic: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools....battery disposal tangent Thread-Index: AQHRk+Kvzi+HognBRk+TAWYVtrPnog== Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:09:59 +0000 References: <570927A6.2070700@comcast.net> <570A76AF.4090800@att.net> <570AC756.2020702@milleredp.com>,<570B1756.9070304@comcast.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US authentication-results: spf=softfail (sender IP is 25.152.82.57) header.d=none; autox.team.net; dmarc=fail action=none header.from=outlook.com; received-spf: SoftFail (protection.outlook.com: domain of transitioning outlook.com discourages use of 25.152.82.57 as permitted sender) x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-tmn: [U7N1QClKUsXg7N9wrDEbbW1lXTxv1UKX] x-eopattributedmessage: 0 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:25.152.82.57; IPV:NLI; CTRY:GB; EFV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(98900003); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:DM3NAM03HT239; H:SN1PR13MB0542.namprd13.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:SoftFail; MLV:ovrnspm; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: ed150708-b53e-4367-75b8-08d361f9d248 x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(5061506196)(5061507196); SRVR:DM3NAM03HT239; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(432015012)(82015046); SRVR:DM3NAM03HT239; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:DM3NAM03HT239; x-forefront-prvs: 09090B6B69 FILETIME=[B0C07570:01D193E2] Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools....battery disposal tangent Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Not to hijack but thought I'd chime in on the battery disposal part of this conversation..... I believe that most people are not aware that batteriesplus will recycle your flat batteries. Last time I called about it the guy said they charge $1 a pound. Well, I just drop them off (right outside their front door) before they open anyway so don't have to worry about putting any money out. (I am not the only one who drops batteries off when they are not open so I don't feel bad about doing this.) carry on tim ________________________________________ From: Shop-talk on behalf of Bob Spidell Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 10:17 PM To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools Wow ... this topic is right up there with politics and proving more interesting and amusing than expected. What a classy list (JK). One aspect that isn't mentioned--and it's 'philosophical' more than technical (well, maybe not)--is disposal of the batteries. I only have a couple years of chemistry but know enough to know that all battery chemistries are bad news for the environment, on both ends (I'm no greenie; I own two old British sports cars). In fact, as I near the end of my warranty--I'm 62 soon-to-be 63--I find myself more concerned about not leaving too big a mess behind; so that will enter into my buying decision. The vote for tethered use is compelling; I've thought that way at times myself. If you don't have a charged battery on hand, it's quicker to untangle the extension cord anyway, if power is available. On 4/10/2016 2:36 PM, John Miller wrote: > On 4/10/2016 8:52 AM, steve hochschild wrote: >> I am raising my hand to mention that I have given up on battery powered >> tools. I have a huge collection of dead batteries, useless chargers, >> and drill carcasses that make me mad every time I look at them. I >> finally realized that all I really wanted was one of those very small >> battery screwdrivers, under $20, and regular, line-powered drills, etc. > > > _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 11 05:56:36 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54AFF2588760 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 05:56:36 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from dogbert2.mail.megageek.com (nj-69-34-94-16.sta.embarqhsd.net [69.34.94.16]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C8F3258843F for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 05:25:50 -0600 (MDT) To: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net From: eric@megageek.com Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 07:02:46 -0400 04/11/2016 07:02:58, Serialize complete at 04/11/2016 07:02:58 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools....battery disposal tangent Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============7087083877383773863== This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 003F813F85257F92_= Tim, Not to play "one upsman" but if you find your local scrap metal recycler, they will pay YOU per pound. There is money in dead rechargeable batteries (of any type.) Sent from my Commodore 64 on a 2400 Baud Modem. Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson --=_alternative 003F813F85257F92_= Tim,

Not to play "one upsman" but if you find your local scrap metal recycler, they will pay YOU per pound.

There is money in dead rechargeable batteries (of any type.)


Sent from my Commodore 64 on a 2400 Baud Modem.
Eric P
"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson --=_alternative 003F813F85257F92_=-- --===============7087083877383773863== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============7087083877383773863==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 11 06:21:10 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9596E2588676 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 06:21:10 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-io0-f178.google.com (mail-io0-f178.google.com [209.85.223.178]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76A48258844B for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 05:29:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-io0-f178.google.com with SMTP id u185so36880970iod.3 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 04:38:00 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to; bh=LQHTExglA6tYDSHsCxB62HNPtZAlVmbs97osl18XCpQ=; b=kdHDwbP5G/6KCsrxtodvGDWdN3M8+ukq2N2pWVpUbG4pXqn3r+dfoTJVm23FmfhRy8 qedjnsZ2tcWJcuL5EiYrWABsIRflNnRWUnoQ6uXMRr+0oSi50QpsYHSFC6dBlJYSU7YZ IjFMNhV6Kui9iWhD5Tq9H6jEsP2/ZYwdl4caAoh+BXTlultfemxh7Qnk4WmD0xl3BJNP lKgAXAMnf6QXWlxoAexTKvzOZrJjsCh6Rdfd0GopdCA3A/HgEE5OQotSIGcqsh5DYhoR 52oHeFqaQGUEfv8UD3JeS2XjBz2WxXw33b6LyGhSQxB+Kj5PuKsaI1SjaJlS683Hdex0 KBUA== d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to; bh=LQHTExglA6tYDSHsCxB62HNPtZAlVmbs97osl18XCpQ=; b=POu1ZSjl76/TsL43DOYwzW5xDtvVSO5ti4izenSA9S/K9hm6fJZAt0Ec9daO7liYdA +Tmy0M+22jIPSUhSVawcisuiKVyO6Wg2CewyDi4C6I1kOxLWBfrJzCUpeE+ddd2fO94j 7dRz/OVAR6aGpe1xeQM9YUXtMHazDd7+ciop6k7K7WWBZdw1SmX9yUG4GNVXzgx91tJz +wPAUunqepIbyhH+ySCS6teiBPNTeuk8stzrbUqwoeQuako/E/GeUlvzrqBmmIVLTLt8 YmzmSO+v/iWyZ0JHtyY9Esv2Ei4PXzAZRjmza2ocNKX7Z3Ecn7VGdfez1yWqHiMRMPOK 2n2w== Mon, 11 Apr 2016 04:37:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.209.68 with HTTP; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 04:37:50 -0700 (PDT) References: <570927A6.2070700@comcast.net> <1905110359.7350562.1460247045042.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <570A6B91.9010808@visi.com> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 07:37:50 -0400 From: Jeff Scarbrough To: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net "I realize this is like bringing up 'best oil' or 'best tires' on a car list..:" For what it's worth, I bought a set of Ryobi tools with lithium batteries at the local outlet store about eight years ago. One of the batteries has become somewhat weak*, but will still get small jobs done. Ryobi is a brand that is almost universally reviled on the GJ and other forms where such things are discussed, but I couldn't have bought a battery of any other brand for the price I paid for four tools and two batteries, and they've served me just fine for household use. I think the consensus here is go lithium, and go single-brand so you can stick with one battery. That makes sense to me. Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. * The weak battery is the one that never showed anything but dead on the charge indicator - but it always had a charge. Probably why it was at the outlet store in the first place. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 11 06:48:51 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D1B02585225 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 06:48:51 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from eastrmfepo103.cox.net (eastrmfepo103.cox.net [68.230.241.215]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36DF42587878 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 06:19:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eastrmimpo110.cox.net ([68.230.241.223]) by eastrmfepo103.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.01.05.15 201-2260-151-145-20131218) with ESMTP id <20160411122659.WXAN30397.eastrmfepo103.cox.net@eastrmimpo110.cox.net> for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 08:26:59 -0400 Received: from John-PC.cox.net ([24.254.213.227]) by eastrmimpo110.cox.net with cox id h0Sy1s0014uwYHU010Syn9; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 08:26:58 -0400 reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 a=1uXzHskWtM6b6G3593e3IQ==:117 a=L9H7d07YOLsA:10 a=9cW_t1CCXrUA:10 a=s5jvgZ67dGcA:10 a=zOoktvdPAAAA:8 a=C_IRinGWAAAA:8 a=UqCG9HQmAAAA:8 a=kviXuzpPAAAA:8 a=q6SfDYXhAAAA:8 a=_6GpL_ENAAAA:8 a=H0Gib9gIXCzQFX7fozQA:9 a=09uFatq8cwJYwguO:21 a=ZxfuXeTRnHgB-0Zm:21 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=aav4MXMyVXkA:10 a=4zxjrV59PHAA:10 a=bz_d9vehOyUA:10 a=m3MdUl94G8cA:10 a=_F_dFNvmPn6owYL_pcIA:9 a=W115PR6HIdkW9CG8:21 a=TvhHeBN58Y0MxC0n:21 a=GzjlcCWClUCPWmSW:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 Authentication-Results: cox.net; none Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 08:24:37 -0400 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net From: "John T. Blair" References: <570927A6.2070700@comcast.net> <570A76AF.4090800@att.net> <570AC756.2020702@milleredp.com> <570B1756.9070304@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools....battery disposal tangent Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============1148868823851877010== boundary="=====================_2188943==.ALT" --=====================_2188943==.ALT At 07:09 AM 4/11/2016, Tim wrote: >I believe that most people are not aware that batteriesplus will recycle your flat >batteries. Last time I called about it the guy said they charge $1 a pound. Well, I >just drop them off (right outside their front door) before they open anyway so >don't have to worry about putting any money out. (I am not the only one who >drops batteries off when they are not open so I don't feel bad about doing this.) Also check you local Libruaries. Our main city libruary takes small batteries, not car type, and I don't know about the tool batteries (LI-ion). But it's the only place I could find that would take my alkaline and Ni Cads. John >carry on >tim > >________________________________________ >From: Shop-talk on behalf of Bob >Spidell >Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 10:17 PM >To: shop-talk@autox.team.net >Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools > >Wow ... this topic is right up there with politics and proving more >interesting and amusing than expected. What a classy list (JK). > >One aspect that isn't mentioned--and it's 'philosophical' more than >technical (well, maybe not)--is disposal of the batteries. I only have >a couple years of chemistry but know enough to know that all battery >chemistries are bad news for the environment, on both ends (I'm no >greenie; I own two old British sports cars). In fact, as I near the end >of my warranty--I'm 62 soon-to-be 63--I find myself more concerned about >not leaving too big a mess behind; so that will enter into my buying >decision. The vote for tethered use is compelling; I've thought that >way at times myself. If you don't have a charged battery on hand, it's >quicker to untangle the extension cord anyway, if power is available. > > > >On 4/10/2016 2:36 PM, John Miller wrote: > > On 4/10/2016 8:52 AM, steve hochschild wrote: > >> I am raising my hand to mention that I have given up on battery powered > >> tools. I have a huge collection of dead batteries, useless chargers, > >> and drill carcasses that make me mad every time I look at them. I > >> finally realized that all I really wanted was one of those very small > >> battery screwdrivers, under $20, and regular, line-powered drills, etc. > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Shop-talk@autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Suggested annual donation $12.96 >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe/Manage: >http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tims_datsun_stuff@outlook.com > >_______________________________________________ > >Shop-talk@autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Suggested annual donation $12.96 >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe/Manage: >http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jblair1948@cox.net John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948@cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy: e pluribus Unum, "from many, one." In God We Trust Liberty - the power of choosing, thinking, and acting for oneself; freedom from control or restriction --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus --=====================_2188943==.ALT At 07:09 AM 4/11/2016, Tim wrote:

>I believe that most people are not aware that batteriesplus will recycle your flat
>batteries. Last time I called about it the guy said they charge $1 a pound. Well, I
>just drop them off (right outside their front door) before they open anyway so
>don't have to worry about putting any money out. (I am not the only one who
>drops batteries off when they are not open so I don't feel bad about doing this.)

Also check you local Libruaries.  Our main city libruary takes small batteries, not
car type, and I don't know about the tool batteries (LI-ion).  But it's the only place
I could find that would take my alkaline and Ni Cads.

John



carry on
tim

________________________________________
From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net>
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 10:17 PM
To: shop-talk@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools

Wow ... this topic is right up there with politics and proving more
interesting and amusing than expected.  What a classy list (JK).

One aspect that isn't mentioned--and it's 'philosophical' more than
technical (well, maybe not)--is disposal of the batteries.  I only have
a couple years of chemistry but know enough to know that all battery
chemistries are bad news for the environment, on both ends (I'm no
greenie; I own two old British sports cars).  In fact, as I near the end
of my warranty--I'm 62 soon-to-be 63--I find myself more concerned about
not leaving too big a mess behind; so that will enter into my buying
decision.  The vote for tethered use is compelling; I've thought that
way at times myself.  If you don't have a charged battery on hand, it's
quicker to untangle the extension cord anyway, if power is available.



On 4/10/2016 2:36 PM, John Miller wrote:
> On 4/10/2016 8:52 AM, steve hochschild wrote:
>> I am raising my hand to mention that I have given up on battery powered
>> tools.  I have a huge collection of dead batteries, useless chargers,
>> and drill carcasses that make me mad every time I look at them. I
>> finally realized that all I really wanted was one of those very small
>> battery screwdrivers, under $20, and regular, line-powered drills, etc.
>
>
>

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: Archive: Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tims_datsun_stuff@outlook.com

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: Archive: Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jblair1948@cox.net

Virus-free. www.avast.com

John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948@cox.net
Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229

          48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
     75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                       65 Rambler Classic

Bricklin:  www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
     e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
     In God We Trust
     Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for 
                  oneself; freedom  from  control  or  restriction 


--=====================_2188943==.ALT-- --===============1148868823851877010== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============1148868823851877010==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 11 07:43:46 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06FDF25850AF for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 07:43:46 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mr11p24im-asmtp004.me.com (mr11p24im-asmtp004.me.com [17.110.78.110]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AF0A2588618 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 07:04:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.50.64] (unknown [184.105.18.14]) by mr11p24im-asmtp004.me.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7.0.5.36.0 64bit (built Sep 8 2015)) with ESMTPSA id <0O5H002AH0PB7500@mr11p24im-asmtp004.me.com> for shop-talk@autox.team.net; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 13:12:51 +0000 (GMT) definitions=2016-04-11_10:,, signatures=0 clxscore=1011 suspectscore=8 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1510270003 definitions=main-1604110194 References: <570927A6.2070700@comcast.net> <570A76AF.4090800@att.net> <570AC756.2020702@milleredp.com> <570B1756.9070304@comcast.net> <6.2.5.6.1.20160411082033.04cd3008@cox.net> From: Pat Horne Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 08:12:46 -0500 To: "John T. Blair" Cc: shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools....battery disposal tangent Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============4650869834382295919== boundary=Apple-Mail-8609D186-15DE-479F-BA59-D765F31F8F33 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit --Apple-Mail-8609D186-15DE-479F-BA59-D765F31F8F33 charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Around here Lowes & Home Depot have drop boxes for batteries & fluorescent b= ulbs.=20 Pat Horne=20 We support Caldwell County Habitat for Humanity On Apr 11, 2016, at 7:24 AM, John T. Blair wrote: At 07:09 AM 4/11/2016, Tim wrote: >I believe that most people are not aware that batteriesplus will recycle yo= ur flat >batteries. Last time I called about it the guy said they charge $1 a pound.= Well, I=20 >just drop them off (right outside their front door) before they open anyway= so=20 >don't have to worry about putting any money out. (I am not the only one who= =20 >drops batteries off when they are not open so I don't feel bad about doing t= his.) Also check you local Libruaries. Our main city libruary takes small batteri= es, not car type, and I don't know about the tool batteries (LI-ion). But it's the o= nly place=20 I could find that would take my alkaline and Ni Cads. John > carry on > tim >=20 > ________________________________________ > From: Shop-talk on behalf of Bob Spidel= l > Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 10:17 PM > To: shop-talk@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools >=20 > Wow ... this topic is right up there with politics and proving more > interesting and amusing than expected. What a classy list (JK). >=20 > One aspect that isn't mentioned--and it's 'philosophical' more than > technical (well, maybe not)--is disposal of the batteries. I only have > a couple years of chemistry but know enough to know that all battery > chemistries are bad news for the environment, on both ends (I'm no > greenie; I own two old British sports cars). In fact, as I near the end > of my warranty--I'm 62 soon-to-be 63--I find myself more concerned about > not leaving too big a mess behind; so that will enter into my buying > decision. The vote for tethered use is compelling; I've thought that > way at times myself. If you don't have a charged battery on hand, it's > quicker to untangle the extension cord anyway, if power is available. >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 4/10/2016 2:36 PM, John Miller wrote: > > On 4/10/2016 8:52 AM, steve hochschild wrote: > >> I am raising my hand to mention that I have given up on battery powered= > >> tools. I have a huge collection of dead batteries, useless chargers, > >> and drill carcasses that make me mad every time I look at them. I > >> finally realized that all I really wanted was one of those very small > >> battery screwdrivers, under $20, and regular, line-powered drills, etc.= > > > > > > >=20 > _______________________________________________ >=20 > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tims_d= atsun_stuff@outlook.com=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ >=20 > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jblair= 1948@cox.net Virus-free. www.avast.com John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948@cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! =46rom Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy: e pluribus Unum, "from many, one." In God We Trust Liberty - the power of choosing, thinking, and acting for=20 oneself; freedom from control or restriction=20 _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive as@icloud.com --Apple-Mail-8609D186-15DE-479F-BA59-D765F31F8F33 charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Around here Lowes & Home Depot have drop boxes for batteries & fluorescent bulbs. 

Pat Horne 
We support Caldwell County Habitat for Humanity


On Apr 11, 2016, at 7:24 AM, John T. Blair <jblair1948@cox.net> wrote:

At 07:09 AM 4/11/2016, Tim wrote:

>I believe that most people are not aware that batteriesplus will recycle your flat
>batteries. Last time I called about it the guy said they charge $1 a pound. Well, I
>just drop them off (right outside their front door) before they open anyway so
>don't have to worry about putting any money out. (I am not the only one who
>drops batteries off when they are not open so I don't feel bad about doing this.)

Also check you local Libruaries.  Our main city libruary takes small batteries, not
car type, and I don't know about the tool batteries (LI-ion).  But it's the only place
I could find that would take my alkaline and Ni Cads.

John



carry on
tim

________________________________________
From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net>
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 10:17 PM
To: shop-talk@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools

Wow ... this topic is right up there with politics and proving more
interesting and amusing than expected.  What a classy list (JK).

One aspect that isn't mentioned--and it's 'philosophical' more than
technical (well, maybe not)--is disposal of the batteries.  I only have
a couple years of chemistry but know enough to know that all battery
chemistries are bad news for the environment, on both ends (I'm no
greenie; I own two old British sports cars).  In fact, as I near the end
of my warranty--I'm 62 soon-to-be 63--I find myself more concerned about
not leaving too big a mess behind; so that will enter into my buying
decision.  The vote for tethered use is compelling; I've thought that
way at times myself.  If you don't have a charged battery on hand, it's
quicker to untangle the extension cord anyway, if power is available.



On 4/10/2016 2:36 PM, John Miller wrote:
> On 4/10/2016 8:52 AM, steve hochschild wrote:
>> I am raising my hand to mention that I have given up on battery powered
>> tools.  I have a huge collection of dead batteries, useless chargers,
>> and drill carcasses that make me mad every time I look at them. I
>> finally realized that all I really wanted was one of those very small
>> battery screwdrivers, under $20, and regular, line-powered drills, etc.
>
>
>

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: Archive: Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tims_datsun_stuff@outlook.com

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: Archive: Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jblair1948@cox.net

Virus-free. www.avast.com

John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948@cox.net
Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229

          48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
     75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                       65 Rambler Classic

Bricklin:  www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
     e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
     In God We Trust
     Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for 
                  oneself; freedom  from  control  or  restriction 


_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
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--Apple-Mail-8609D186-15DE-479F-BA59-D765F31F8F33-- --===============4650869834382295919== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============4650869834382295919==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 11 08:03:19 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A01925847B0 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 08:03:19 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-oi0-f65.google.com (mail-oi0-f65.google.com [209.85.218.65]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3889C2588618 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 07:06:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-oi0-f65.google.com with SMTP id w18so23975869oie.2 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 06:14:04 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to; bh=W66TB5X/ERVE3S5ZtoIp2xy77GSFwCIZvpjZuZ/rYKw=; b=VUQoYewn3y8rIJebwXv7f9J6TDLrJlYzyO52Ng/gKHhk2+zlKU8MTSWHFo/6uT5l6X Wo+3GEmJOJpLQ/trJ+GCkJx9iBsKrjYArZmVndcQUwbGBq02TNY16pYq7k4MvOmjgrUx Tb/QNjGIgAYML4Y/SURFH99GSTKl4KHQEY8ClJUJ/C8xwiSGaBFncW4Wfq+qLZVZdCV0 K45mqlWUjEmE4DdLFmU3uaqPJ+/4c1DcCxHmedHkZ/C2gu0PQuo6NpOYJGF+1DNV3OxA zrgdpaYXlo0ChxEIDorgO5xqE343fQHnVLEj8mQ67bbuhQ/4FrmSSuKFsd6UUnTQhTK0 sbVQ== d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=W66TB5X/ERVE3S5ZtoIp2xy77GSFwCIZvpjZuZ/rYKw=; b=Ish+XrxS/1LNTYKoedo1tcLtQwqzb6gvve/u6o5BAEvxBpZCShDn9js6/oYSF9o1qU Z4v+HAlT8V8NXOb82IcCdyr9Cx3QsMs6x8L5MbXA0VJvvctGj9PLNz8+QMFjtWrbyEof Hr3ed5y8oM6KtUYj57fjTOAZsJhbnpRt5/3zbGSxODSgFRoNZqWF6Upl1K8T/xQoZkgV Aah2mxIXEcEOaVkisboRy+E/A8/Xak/ULZAaooVTjBFry0cfB7K5O4JN2HI+J1ltEMpf Ok6Xo6S8rBGQp3KctcXX+Hn4hhfARlcMP7P19LkxfFPjnVKqovheQtp0VHeGk4rxUGJR R1LA== Mon, 11 Apr 2016 06:13:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.45.82 with HTTP; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 06:13:39 -0700 (PDT) References: <570927A6.2070700@comcast.net> <570A76AF.4090800@att.net> <570AC756.2020702@milleredp.com> <570B1756.9070304@comcast.net> <6.2.5.6.1.20160411082033.04cd3008@cox.net> From: RandE Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 08:13:39 -0500 To: ShopTalk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools....battery disposal tangent Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============8885093246884307905== --001a113e018e4c2e5b05303551eb Our local Lowes/HomeDepot has a box inside the front door where they take batteries for recycling. Randy On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 7:24 AM, John T. Blair wrote: > At 07:09 AM 4/11/2016, Tim wrote: > > >I believe that most people are not aware that batteriesplus will recycle > your flat > >batteries. Last time I called about it the guy said they charge $1 a > pound. Well, I > >just drop them off (right outside their front door) before they open > anyway so > >don't have to worry about putting any money out. (I am not the only one > who > >drops batteries off when they are not open so I don't feel bad about > doing this.) > > Also check you local Libruaries. Our main city libruary takes small > batteries, not > car type, and I don't know about the tool batteries (LI-ion). But it's > the only place > I could find that would take my alkaline and Ni Cads. > > John > > > > carry on > tim > > ________________________________________ > From: Shop-talk on behalf of Bob > Spidell > Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 10:17 PM > To: shop-talk@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools > > Wow ... this topic is right up there with politics and proving more > interesting and amusing than expected. What a classy list (JK). > > One aspect that isn't mentioned--and it's 'philosophical' more than > technical (well, maybe not)--is disposal of the batteries. I only have > a couple years of chemistry but know enough to know that all battery > chemistries are bad news for the environment, on both ends (I'm no > greenie; I own two old British sports cars). In fact, as I near the end > of my warranty--I'm 62 soon-to-be 63--I find myself more concerned about > not leaving too big a mess behind; so that will enter into my buying > decision. The vote for tethered use is compelling; I've thought that > way at times myself. If you don't have a charged battery on hand, it's > quicker to untangle the extension cord anyway, if power is available. > > > > On 4/10/2016 2:36 PM, John Miller wrote: > > On 4/10/2016 8:52 AM, steve hochschild wrote: > >> I am raising my hand to mention that I have given up on battery powered > >> tools. I have a huge collection of dead batteries, useless chargers, > >> and drill carcasses that make me mad every time I look at them. I > >> finally realized that all I really wanted was one of those very small > >> battery screwdrivers, under $20, and regular, line-powered drills, etc. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tims_datsun_stuff@outlook.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jblair1948@cox.net > > > > Virus-free. > www.avast.com > > > John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948@cox.net > Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 > > 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) > 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III > 65 Rambler Classic > > Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan > Bricklin: www.bricklin.org > > If you can read this - Thank a teacher! > If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! > > From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy: > e pluribus Unum, "from many, one." > In God We Trust > Liberty - the power of choosing, thinking, and acting for > oneself; freedom from control or restriction > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/rande@pobox.com > > > --001a113e018e4c2e5b05303551eb Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Our local Lowes/HomeDepot has a box inside the front door = where they take batteries for recycling.

Randy


= On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 7:24 AM, John T. Blair <jblair1948@cox.net>= ; wrote:
At 07:09 AM 4/11/2016, Tim wrote:

>I believe that most people are not aware that batteriesplus will recycle your flat
>batteries. Last time I called about it the guy said they charge $1 a pound. Well, I
>just drop them off (right outside their front door) before they open anyway so
>don't have to worry about putting any money out. (I am not the only one who
>drops batteries off when they are not open so I don't feel bad abou= t doing this.)

Also check you local Libruaries.=C2=A0 Our main city libruary takes small batteries, not
car type, and I don't know about the tool batteries (LI-ion).=C2=A0 But it's the only place
I could find that would take my alkaline and Ni Cads.

John



carry on
tim

________________________________________
From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Bob Spidell <bspid= ell@comcast.net>
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 10:17 PM
To: shop-talk= @autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools

Wow ... this topic is right up there with politics and proving more
interesting and amusing than expected.=C2=A0 What a classy list (JK).

One aspect that isn't mentioned--and it's 'philosophical' m= ore than
technical (well, maybe not)--is disposal of the batteries.=C2=A0 I only have
a couple years of chemistry but know enough to know that all battery
chemistries are bad news for the environment, on both ends (I'm no
greenie; I own two old British sports cars).=C2=A0 In fact, as I near the end
of my warranty--I'm 62 soon-to-be 63--I find myself more concerned about
not leaving too big a mess behind; so that will enter into my buying
decision.=C2=A0 The vote for tethered use is compelling; I've thought that
way at times myself.=C2=A0 If you don't have a charged battery on hand, it's
quicker to untangle the extension cord anyway, if power is available.



On 4/10/2016 2:36 PM, John Miller wrote:
> On 4/10/2016 8:52 AM, steve hochschild wrote:
>> I am raising my hand to mention that I have given up on battery powered
>> tools.=C2=A0 I have a huge collection of dead batteries, useless chargers,
>> and drill carcasses that make me mad every time I look at them. I
>> finally realized that all I really wanted was one of those very small
>> battery screwdrivers, under $20, and regular, line-powered drills, etc.
>
>
>

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
Donate: Archive: Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tims_datsun_stuff@outlook.c= om

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
Donate: Archive: Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jblair1948@cox.net

Virus-free. www.avast.com

John T. Blair=C2=A0 WA4OHZ=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 email:=C2=A0 jblair1948@cox.net<= /a>

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 48 TR1800=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 48 #4 Midget=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 77 Spitfire=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 71 Saab Sonett III
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 www.team.net/www/morgan
Bricklin:=C2=A0 www.bricklin.org

If you can read this=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 In God We Trust
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Liberty - the=C2=A0 power=C2=A0 of=C2=A0 choosing,=C2=A0 thinking,=C2=A0 and=C2=A0 acting=C2=A0 for=C2=A0
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 oneself; freedom=C2=A0 from=C2=A0 control=C2=A0 or=C2=A0 restriction=C2=A0



_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
alk/rande@pobox.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team= .net/mailman/options/shop-talk/rande@pobox.com



--001a113e018e4c2e5b05303551eb-- --===============8885093246884307905== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============8885093246884307905==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 11 08:48:18 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 711182585A69 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 08:48:18 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from BAY004-OMC2S18.hotmail.com (bay004-omc2s18.hotmail.com [65.54.190.93]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D4232585327 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 07:13:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from NAM01-SN1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com ([65.54.190.125]) by BAY004-OMC2S18.hotmail.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.23008); Mon, 11 Apr 2016 06:21:22 -0700 s=selector1; h=From:To:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=5e+nlK6aCp6Bh/SjC5lD+65U32DXM6q6PokNJ1f2f7E=; b=ByrQ7lNkaR9ponjb/osNJC8qSBAEmxiLAW/7hHxPdnD2lfLGln+RgKJJOc1cUUAVz+/5S7DxqvKezkXHJHfUej/f8DBPA+fo0Hmsmj3x7xASDL81uv/Nte25zQXPuF2R7+qDLhw8twoMgpe0Xf00HWVlK/C0lShlkqX/ecgRtHAd8kMBGQtu6mmmQHbsv9ogwT7IRIFhZSAcpCgbt2nviAWEGOg6UsRKQTHNkhAiTwy031UMv8GVhCokcmwunN+cifwovIv+fzrZCrnLakl3Zi13Ijh3bgpfpSwDl8267eKsEeP8YodJbCYjdvS0r8H/4CyF9uUv23OuCNElxkBecQ== Received: from BY2NAM01FT007.eop-nam01.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.68.52) by BY2NAM01HT065.eop-nam01.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.69.96) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.453.6; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 13:21:21 +0000 Received: from SN1PR13MB0542.namprd13.prod.outlook.com (10.152.68.51) by BY2NAM01FT007.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.69.7) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.453.6 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 13:21:20 +0000 Received: from SN1PR13MB0542.namprd13.prod.outlook.com ([10.164.27.152]) by SN1PR13MB0542.namprd13.prod.outlook.com ([10.164.27.152]) with mapi id 15.01.0466.017; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 13:21:20 +0000 From: "Tim ." To: "shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net" Thread-Topic: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools....battery disposal tangent Thread-Index: AQHRk+Gtzi+HognBRk+TAWYVtrPnop+EwbJ5 Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 13:21:20 +0000 References: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US authentication-results: spf=softfail (sender IP is 25.152.68.51) header.d=none; Autox.Team.Net; dmarc=fail action=none header.from=outlook.com; received-spf: SoftFail (protection.outlook.com: domain of transitioning outlook.com discourages use of 25.152.68.51 as permitted sender) x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-tmn: [MExcH4n0PWVy++fqlhNAeFxLehT8w4BH] x-eopattributedmessage: 0 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:25.152.68.51; IPV:NLI; CTRY:GB; EFV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(98900003); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BY2NAM01HT065; H:SN1PR13MB0542.namprd13.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:SoftFail; MLV:ovrnspm; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 734c5c41-54ca-4f37-ee28-08d3620c2be2 x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(5061506196)(5061507196); SRVR:BY2NAM01HT065; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(432015012)(82015046); SRVR:BY2NAM01HT065; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:BY2NAM01HT065; x-forefront-prvs: 09090B6B69 FILETIME=[0A873A00:01D193F5] Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools....battery disposal tangent Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============2118201393658328835== Content-Language: en-US boundary="_000_SN1PR13MB05424C41A7683D74A4A10515B4940SN1PR13MB0542namp_" --_000_SN1PR13MB05424C41A7683D74A4A10515B4940SN1PR13MB0542namp_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey Eric, Well hell, this is great information. I had no clue. No clue at all. I rare= ly get to the scrapper and even less now that scrap is so low. Thanks for passing this information along!! No worries on "one upsman"...it never even would have crossed my mind. ________________________________ From: eric@megageek.com Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 6:02 AM To: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net Cc: Tim . Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools....battery disposal tangent Tim, Not to play "one upsman" but if you find your local scrap metal recycler, t= hey will pay YOU per pound. There is money in dead rechargeable batteries (of any type.) Sent from my Commodore 64 on a 2400 Baud Modem. Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational b= eing are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo= Emerson --_000_SN1PR13MB05424C41A7683D74A4A10515B4940SN1PR13MB0542namp_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hey Eric, 


Well hell, this is great information. I had no clue. No clue at all. I r= arely get to the scrapper and even less now that scrap is so low. 


Thanks for passing this information along!!


No worries on  "one upsman"...it never even would have crossed my mi= nd. 





From: eric@megageek.com <= ;eric@megageek.com>
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 6:02 AM
To: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net
Cc: Tim .
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools....battery disposal = tangent
 
Tim,

Not to play "one upsman" but= if you find your local scrap metal recycler, they will pay YOU per pound.<= /font>

There is money in dead rechargeable ba= tteries (of any type.)


Sent from my Commodore 64 on a 2400 Baud Modem.
Eric P
"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a ratio= nal being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." R= alph Waldo Emerson
--_000_SN1PR13MB05424C41A7683D74A4A10515B4940SN1PR13MB0542namp_-- --===============2118201393658328835== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============2118201393658328835==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 11 10:40:52 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76C162588A8D for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 10:40:52 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-po-02v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-po-02v.sys.comcast.net [96.114.154.161]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 746A92586862 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 08:38:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-po-05v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.229]) by comcast with SMTP id pd69ayZ1IGhQ0pd6pafe9X; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 14:46:35 +0000 s=q20140121; t=1460385995; bh=8Lo7SpgnvwFhieF/PEM4pGUi4U050gjS8rWVtzcZNRM=; h=Received:Received:Date:From:To:Message-ID:Subject:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=LI8WUCv5m4dGxaSKZHQGQTskRe+5aawuKogGnguaDzMA/Rv50JuJoliRzVD7OZikR GBBW1MXfXLhEAnr89fc26QmZJnWDn5m9XW+X+MKDMSB8R6nQztM8nGGtzx2q9J5o4V qzKQJfta0L9DU9hcb5FgFt1+5KAUB8wPYH26j4APbh8G76p7qzwSF/YJ+wdij5L7TI EmTLEteP0jPOuibJAIU+RY8tFn22lCx+yFvZFyDv9CI7l1Q/G+QJ1k7tT2PXuxsRkA GIPDaleJGtmOhzuHswlNfnUB+LuTrXGf7H8CwtqG0zvsjFCSwQBUhTS9K9bgYH93PT G3wzXGBU0g7Ew== Received: from resmail-po-057v.sys.comcast.net ([162.150.176.67]) by resomta-po-05v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id h2mb1s0011TddKW012mb1B; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 14:46:35 +0000 Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 14:46:34 +0000 (UTC) From: Bob Spidell To: rande@pobox.com References: <570927A6.2070700@comcast.net> <570A76AF.4090800@att.net> <570AC756.2020702@milleredp.com> <570B1756.9070304@comcast.net> <6.2.5.6.1.20160411082033.04cd3008@cox.net> Thread-Topic: Battery-operated tools....battery disposal tangent Thread-Index: Pui8JpJBAjclGu2vCAVqoVDUK+R0vQ== Cc: ShopTalk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools....battery disposal tangent Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============0012512379407607289== boundary="----=_Part_9407988_815367317.1460385994775" ------=_Part_9407988_815367317.1460385994775 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I know a lot of places take batteries, fluorescent bulbs, etc. for recycling, but I have a sneaking suspicion--backed up by some investigative reporting I've seen--that a lot of the 'recycled' stuff ends up in rivers in China (presumably after any valuable components and metals are removed). You might ask: "Why do you care? It's China!" but I see the Earth as an extended neighborhood--like I said, I'm no greenie, but as a (nominal*) engineer I hate waste--and all the filth deposited in third world countries and our own are like having a neighbor with an overgrown lawn and garden and garbage on display. Just not cool (and not good for property values, either). (*) a lot of people in my profession are called software 'engineers,' but since I have no professional certification I think 'programmer' is more appropriate (but I hate 'coder;' it belittles the craft) ----- Original Message ----- Our local Lowes/HomeDepot has a box inside the front door where they take batteries for recycling. Randy On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 7:24 AM, John T. Blair < jblair1948@cox.net > wrote: At 07:09 AM 4/11/2016, Tim wrote: >I believe that most people are not aware that batteriesplus will recycle your flat >batteries. Last time I called about it the guy said they charge $1 a pound. Well, I >just drop them off (right outside their front door) before they open anyway so >don't have to worry about putting any money out. (I am not the only one who >drops batteries off when they are not open so I don't feel bad about doing this.) Also check you local Libruaries. Our main city libruary takes small batteries, not car type, and I don't know about the tool batteries (LI-ion). But it's the only place I could find that would take my alkaline and Ni Cads. John ------=_Part_9407988_815367317.1460385994775 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I know a lot of places take batteries, fluorescent bulbs, etc. for= recycling, but I have a sneaking suspicion--backed up by some investigativ= e reporting I've seen--that a lot of the 'recycled' stuff ends up in rivers= in China (presumably after any valuable components and metals are removed)= .

You might ask: "Why do you care?  It's = China!"  but I see the Earth as an extended neighborhood--like I said,= I'm no greenie, but as a (nominal*) engineer I hate waste--and all the fil= th deposited in third world countries and our own are like having a neighbo= r with an overgrown lawn and garden and garbage on display.  Just not = cool (and not good for property values, either).


(*) a lot of people in my profession are called software = 'engineers,' but since I have no professional certification I think 'progra= mmer' is more appropriate (but I hate 'coder;' it belittles the craft)
<= /div>



Our local Low= es/HomeDepot has a box inside the front door where they take batteries for = recycling.

Randy


On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 7:24 A= M, John T. Blair <jblair1948@cox.net> wrote:

At 07:09 AM 4/11/201= 6, Tim wrote:

>I believe that most people are not aware that batteriesplus will recycle your flat
>batteries. Last time I called about it the guy said they charge $1 a pound. Well, I
>just drop them off (right outside their front door) before they open anyway so
>don't have to worry about putting any money out. (I am not the only one who
>drops batteries off when they are not open so I don't feel bad about doing this.)

Also check you local Libruaries.  Our main city libruary takes small batteries, not
car type, and I don't know about the tool batteries (LI-ion).  But it's the only place
I could find that would take my alkaline and Ni Cads.

John

------=_Part_9407988_815367317.1460385994775-- --===============0012512379407607289== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============0012512379407607289==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 11 11:37:03 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD98E258688B for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:37:03 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from fed1rmfepo102.cox.net (fed1rmfepo102.cox.net [68.230.241.144]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A70E82587654 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 09:08:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fed1rmimpo109.cox.net ([68.230.241.158]) by fed1rmfepo102.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.01.05.15 201-2260-151-145-20131218) with ESMTP id <20160411151658.ZSZI4023.fed1rmfepo102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo109.cox.net> for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:16:58 -0400 Received: from John-PC.cox.net ([24.254.213.227]) by fed1rmimpo109.cox.net with cox id h3Gx1s00G4uwYHU013GyrP; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:16:58 -0400 reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 a=1uXzHskWtM6b6G3593e3IQ==:117 a=L9H7d07YOLsA:10 a=9cW_t1CCXrUA:10 a=s5jvgZ67dGcA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=kviXuzpPAAAA:8 a=zOoktvdPAAAA:8 a=q6SfDYXhAAAA:8 a=_6GpL_ENAAAA:8 a=kys2UyXWj07vxxawFQMA:9 a=hy2KGQ-C1L8PJkMG:21 a=K9iyL0vHhMZXpa0t:21 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=aav4MXMyVXkA:10 a=4zxjrV59PHAA:10 a=bz_d9vehOyUA:10 Authentication-Results: cox.net; none Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:14:25 -0400 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net From: "John T. Blair" Subject: [Shop-talk] Fuel Injector Cleaners Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Hey gang, I went to get my car, a '06 Scion xB /w 54,000 mi, state inspected on Sat. When it was done, they suggested that I have the fuel injectors "cleaned". Only $150! My question to the group, is do you all have this done? All I've seen on shows like 60 min, is that the shops were telling people to have it done, and then charging the customer, but not doing the work. Are any of the in the bottle cleaners any good? Is this a good as the "shop cleaning"? I assume that they don't take the injectors off the engine, so really all they're doing is pumping a chemical through the system. Maybe a little better than mixing with the fuel and running it through the system. If you recommend a cleaner in the bottle, which ones and how often? Or is all this really snake oil? TIA John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948@cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy: e pluribus Unum, "from many, one." In God We Trust Liberty - the power of choosing, thinking, and acting for oneself; freedom from control or restriction --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 11 14:26:19 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2E96258900D for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 14:26:19 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cdptpa-oedge-vip.email.rr.com (cdptpa-outbound-snat.email.rr.com [107.14.166.230]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2D352587989 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:20:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.248.153.253] ([172.248.153.253:4742] helo=rypc) by cdptpa-oedge02 (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.5.0.35861 r(Momo-dev:tip)) with ESMTP id C3/1B-11244-2DEDB075; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 17:28:50 +0000 From: "Randall" Cc: "'ShopTalk'" Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 10:28:50 -0700 Thread-Index: AdGUF5znCQOZBkQ5SJaudkxyKzgbng== Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools....battery disposal tangent Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > I know a lot of places take batteries, fluorescent bulbs, > etc. for recycling, but I have a sneaking suspicion--backed > up by some investigative reporting I've seen--that a lot of > the 'recycled' stuff ends up in rivers in China (presumably > after any valuable components and metals are removed). Interesting. That explains the disclaimer at http://www.lacsd.org/solidwaste/swfacilities/recyclecontact/hhw_e_waste/ "No electronic waste collected at these events is sent overseas." I'm not arguing whether that is true or not; just didn't understand why it was worth mentioning. Personally, I'm a lot less worried about rivers in China than I am the landfill up the hill (from where I used to live). Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 11 16:36:35 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 704BF258940F for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 16:36:35 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-yw0-f195.google.com (mail-yw0-f195.google.com [209.85.161.195]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD4722588BA0 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 12:36:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-yw0-f195.google.com with SMTP id i125so13070660ywe.3 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:44:31 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc; bh=fPGxyBjSTGIh3MNXJWqIDUsc+vyRvUoH6G5ysx+RFe4=; b=hoKOQr+vOjSz6ib+5jV3AkuhxG6ak0zWBppSwJr6qKDw1VPilhNY8M/wcil2HgejGO P18eX5LYX4E194p/ez6f9ty2AXnpjHYdDPPP5t+Ub3xQn89ZamA213a/7EPxWTtzuqCZ mrvOL0X1zbRErroYXUSDONDZaBJgdlhMEAH3XdJgJOjWPwpXpzJXXzPvSj7HaGDqDsUK +GNChNptRRDvWxei+gr/2kycD2U4fyWLkBmNvnEgD3IZuaA1dXyzdE19Lm7rmuF/Nt88 3g0Qr8VxGQpBUGPC47i6CrwIJtFbO9XGJXWqNLdDVfJOy1tuqke+XEMssUGO9IBRBOz1 e9Jg== d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc; bh=fPGxyBjSTGIh3MNXJWqIDUsc+vyRvUoH6G5ysx+RFe4=; b=JCHsIoCRR4l7OiYaIGCsfNfYCWZZsg1pYgQwcyC1P4qvwcOEDGjHwVKBm7xUcGVSHB 4zjkIaSrDTR15T36/Y7uLno3mPyLMh2bLrf6Npds2lzSweco8F2XU4knhyNqJa2dWTBr Mm/Mmx84iIRrl3zt6taIsXGJQDouXVuGApacKwKTjd9o+5632VLhqpHU3E+pqIITqi1k IyfMaJ/F2RaIIHfeGMj67CNVsQpcR+ZxbVFRcce9hZzB6uRVx/Hl6C+XxGtv9ZElvamd q+P4CkjnjyXUcriaXgus4EU4LozL3RaV+GVdZuAGtybCR/zaGdO7VzF2SgKZkcue7oNK 11WQ== Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:44:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.13.194.66 with HTTP; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:44:20 -0700 (PDT) References: <6.2.5.6.1.20160411082501.04cd3298@cox.net> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 13:44:20 -0500 From: John Innis To: "John T. Blair" Cc: shop-talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Fuel Injector Cleaners Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============4560286560432940615== --001a1142d1c2c32ea9053039eed9 I use Sea Foam, added to the fuel. It seems to do the job and costs a lot less than $150! I say it seems to do the job because I have never really had a problem with dirty or clogged injectors. I know that sea foam does a good job of cleaning clogged jets in carbs and it removes carbon deposits form the head and valves pretty good. Those things I have has issues with and you can see the results. On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 10:14 AM, John T. Blair wrote: > Hey gang, > > I went to get my car, a '06 Scion xB /w 54,000 mi, state inspected on > Sat. When it was done, they suggested that I have the fuel injectors > "cleaned". > Only $150! > > My question to the group, is do you all have this done? All I've seen on > shows like 60 min, is that the shops were telling people to have it done, > and > then charging the customer, but not doing the work. > > Are any of the in the bottle cleaners any good? > > Is this a good as the "shop cleaning"? I assume that they don't take the > injectors off the engine, so really all they're doing is pumping a chemical > through the system. Maybe a little better than mixing with the fuel and > running it through the system. > > If you recommend a cleaner in the bottle, which ones and how often? > > Or is all this really snake oil? > > TIA > > John > > John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948@cox.net > Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 > > 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) > 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III > 65 Rambler Classic > > Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan > Bricklin: www.bricklin.org > > If you can read this - Thank a teacher! > If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! > > From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy: > e pluribus Unum, "from many, one." > In God We Trust > Liberty - the power of choosing, thinking, and acting for > oneself; freedom from control or restriction > > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis@gmail.com > > -- ================================= = Never offend people with style when you = = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = ================================= --001a1142d1c2c32ea9053039eed9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I use Sea Foam, added to the fuel.=C2=A0 It seems to do th= e job and costs a lot less than $150!=C2=A0 I say it seems to do the job be= cause I have never really had a problem with dirty or clogged injectors.=C2= =A0 I know that sea foam does a good job of cleaning clogged jets in carbs = and it removes carbon deposits form the head and valves pretty good. Those = things I have has issues with and you can see the results. =C2=A0

On Mon, Apr 11, = 2016 at 10:14 AM, John T. Blair <jblair1948@cox.net> wrote:=
Hey gang,

I went to get my car, a '06 Scion xB /w 54,000 mi, state inspected on S= at.=C2=A0 When it was done, they suggested that I have the fuel injectors &= quot;cleaned".
Only $150!

My question to the group, is do you all have this done?=C2=A0 All I've = seen on
shows like 60 min, is that the shops were telling people to have it done, a= nd
then charging the customer, but not doing the work.

Are any of the in the bottle cleaners any good?

Is this a good as the "shop cleaning"?=C2=A0 I assume that they d= on't take the injectors off the engine, so really all they're doing= is pumping a chemical through the system.=C2=A0 Maybe a little better than= mixing with the fuel and
running it through the system.

If you recommend a cleaner in the bottle, which ones and how often?

Or is all this really snake oil?

TIA

John

John T. Blair=C2=A0 WA4OHZ=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0email:=C2=A0 jblair1948@cox.net
Va. Beach, Va=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= Phone:=C2=A0 (757) 495-8229

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 48 TR1800=C2=A0 =C2=A0 48 #4 Midget=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A075 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)=C2=A0 =C2=A0 77 Spitfire=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 71 Saab Sonett III
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A065 Rambler Classic

Morgan:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 www.team.net/www/morgan
Bricklin:=C2=A0 www.bricklin.org

If you can read this=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0- Thank= a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

>From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0In God We Trust
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Liberty - the=C2=A0 power=C2=A0 of=C2=A0 choosing,=C2= =A0 thinking,=C2=A0 and=C2=A0 acting=C2=A0 for
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 oneself; fre= edom=C2=A0 from=C2=A0 control=C2=A0 or=C2=A0 restriction




---
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et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
alk/jdinnis@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.te= am.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis@gmail.com




--
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D Never offend people with style whe= n you=C2=A0=C2=A0 =3D
=3D can offend with substance --- Sam Brown=C2=A0 = =3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
--001a1142d1c2c32ea9053039eed9-- --===============4560286560432940615== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============4560286560432940615==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 11 17:21:56 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40C392587A10 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 17:21:56 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-po-12v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-po-12v.sys.comcast.net [96.114.154.171]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9794F2588A6B for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 13:03:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-po-10v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.234]) by comcast with SMTP id phF0aAOQVsK9mphFTajnMu; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 19:11:47 +0000 s=q20140121; t=1460401907; bh=3HAqq1F0cEN4RGnvYSaHHqtTCtzvoY1dFZFCf7GNenY=; h=Received:Received:Date:From:To:Message-ID:Subject:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=YoWJ1VvduR7MnKia8yQnPk4E0wK+sVQpkYfQ9xAqAZ2u1z/ADylMYKQHp9wWjgMXY NSWqmCWcGl7sfP0HeViK1bF32SQPEipAoxYhWR99mO9Dd96oJpZPBN5RdJnrukdZja GVHVM4J0e4EJw1VYghqkMiDW48hk/j8kiGTJ4PRmgsY2sdhcQlnv22Gux1jN+UyY6g OCQWOwvZHz3nqMk3Yo2s9H9WADcpDHOGPV/OeZvoJIVuCecS7Lo9T4S/iNQd8Vn/dL KnSbAzwd6savATEKLweG1GPS/rq+uLF8ckjpVaRy64QZ/mAL8MOAkkk8dZ6PAHbVvz 4FmUZU8ASuVJQ== Received: from resmail-po-057v.sys.comcast.net ([162.150.176.67]) by resomta-po-10v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id h7Bn1s0071TddKW017BnhU; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 19:11:47 +0000 Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 19:11:47 +0000 (UTC) From: Bob Spidell To: "John T. Blair" References: <6.2.5.6.1.20160411082501.04cd3298@cox.net> Thread-Topic: Fuel Injector Cleaners Thread-Index: gL1GuvPRmnwwSqXtGwqxVLLd98q5Bw== Cc: ShopTalk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Fuel Injector Cleaners Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============5980209272389335526== boundary="----=_Part_9619697_1856300799.1460401907185" ------=_Part_9619697_1856300799.1460401907185 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sounds like snake oil to me. If your car is running good and MPG hasn't diminished you don't need it. In the early days of FI injectors sometimes got gunked-up, but all fuels are now required to have at least the minimal amount of injector cleaner. My '08 Mustang has nearly 110,000 miles, and I've never put any crap in the thank besides fuel and, in fact, the owner's manual says do it and you might lose your warranty (long-expired now anyway). Hey gang, I went to get my car, a '06 Scion xB /w 54,000 mi, state inspected on Sat. When it was done, they suggested that I have the fuel injectors "cleaned". Only $150! My question to the group, is do you all have this done? All I've seen on shows like 60 min, is that the shops were telling people to have it done, and then charging the customer, but not doing the work. Are any of the in the bottle cleaners any good? Is this a good as the "shop cleaning"? I assume that they don't take the injectors off the engine, so really all they're doing is pumping a chemical through the system. Maybe a little better than mixing with the fuel and running it through the system. If you recommend a cleaner in the bottle, which ones and how often? Or is all this really snake oil? TIA John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948@cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 ------=_Part_9619697_1856300799.1460401907185 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sounds like snake oil to me.  If = your car is running good and MPG hasn't diminished you don't need it. = In the early days of FI injectors sometimes got gunked-up, but all fuels a= re now required to have at least the minimal amount of injector cleaner.&nb= sp; My '08 Mustang has nearly 110,000 miles, and I've never put any crap in= the thank besides fuel and, in fact, the owner's manual says do it and you= might lose your warranty (long-expired now anyway).





Hey gang,

I went to get my car, = a '06 Scion xB /w 54,000 mi, state inspected on
Sat.  When it was = done, they suggested that I have the fuel injectors
"cleaned".
Only = $150!

My question to the group, is do you all have this d= one?  All I've seen on
shows like 60 min, is that the shops were te= lling people to have it done, and
then charging the customer, but not do= ing the work.

Are any of the in the bottle cleaners any g= ood?

Is this a good as the "shop cleaning"?  I assum= e that they don't take
the injectors off the engine, so really all they= 're doing is pumping
a chemical through the system.  Maybe a littl= e better than mixing
with the fuel and
running it through the system= .

If you recommend a cleaner in the bottle, which ones an= d how often?

Or is all this really snake oil?
TIA

John

John T. Blair  WA4= OHZ     email:  jblair1948@cox.net
Va. Beach, Va   &= nbsp;              Phone:  (757) 49= 5-8229



------=_Part_9619697_1856300799.1460401907185-- --===============5980209272389335526== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============5980209272389335526==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 11 19:36:28 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5F402589928 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 19:36:28 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from COL004-OMC4S17.hotmail.com (col004-omc4s17.hotmail.com [65.55.34.219]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BDA325890B7 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 14:37:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from NAM02-SN1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com ([65.55.34.200]) by COL004-OMC4S17.hotmail.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.23008); Mon, 11 Apr 2016 13:45:30 -0700 Received: from CY1NAM02FT010.eop-nam02.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.74.55) by CY1NAM02HT009.eop-nam02.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.75.7) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.453.6; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 20:45:28 +0000 Received: from BN3PR15MB0739.namprd15.prod.outlook.com (10.152.74.58) by CY1NAM02FT010.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.75.50) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.453.6 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 20:45:27 +0000 Received: from BN3PR15MB0739.namprd15.prod.outlook.com ([10.165.79.153]) by BN3PR15MB0739.namprd15.prod.outlook.com ([10.165.79.153]) with mapi id 15.01.0453.029; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 20:45:27 +0000 From: PJ McGarvey To: "John T. Blair" , "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Thread-Topic: [Shop-talk] Fuel Injector Cleaners Thread-Index: AQHRlBoSkBlaDc+4OECGcnOcc5ksgp+FPDqk Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 20:45:27 +0000 References: <6.2.5.6.1.20160411082501.04cd3298@cox.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US authentication-results: spf=softfail (sender IP is 25.152.74.58) header.d=none;cox.net; dmarc=fail action=none header.from=hotmail.com; received-spf: SoftFail (protection.outlook.com: domain of transitioning hotmail.com discourages use of 25.152.74.58 as permitted sender) x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-tmn: [r+GuHFUeL12j1GIJX5DTR/oq9bcdojDi] x-eopattributedmessage: 0 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:25.152.74.58; IPV:NLI; CTRY:GB; EFV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(98900003); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:CY1NAM02HT009; H:BN3PR15MB0739.namprd15.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:SoftFail; MLV:ovrnspm; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 8886ca96-c84e-47cb-ff13-08d3624a36f1 x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(5061506196)(5061507196); SRVR:CY1NAM02HT009; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(432015012)(82015046); SRVR:CY1NAM02HT009; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:CY1NAM02HT009; x-forefront-prvs: 09090B6B69 FILETIME=[1644B6E0:01D19433] Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Fuel Injector Cleaners Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net first question would be why they recommended it. Sounds like a bit of an upsell. Never had the in-car procedure done, but I have sent off sets to Marren Injection to have them done, and never got back a set that DIDn't need a bit of cleaning. But at least they do a full cleaning, blueprinting, etc. so you know what you're getting back. Those cars were turbo'd or tracked so were cases where a lazy injector could cost you an engine or a cylinder. I'd say if you aren't seeing issues, drivability or mpg related, and don't do any track or performance driving (I know it's an xB) then save the money. ________________________________________ From: Shop-talk on behalf of John T. Blair Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 11:14 AM To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] Fuel Injector Cleaners Hey gang, I went to get my car, a '06 Scion xB /w 54,000 mi, state inspected on Sat. When it was done, they suggested that I have the fuel injectors "cleaned". Only $150! My question to the group, is do you all have this done? All I've seen on shows like 60 min, is that the shops were telling people to have it done, and then charging the customer, but not doing the work. Are any of the in the bottle cleaners any good? Is this a good as the "shop cleaning"? I assume that they don't take the injectors off the engine, so really all they're doing is pumping a chemical through the system. Maybe a little better than mixing with the fuel and running it through the system. If you recommend a cleaner in the bottle, which ones and how often? Or is all this really snake oil? TIA John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948@cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy: e pluribus Unum, "from many, one." In God We Trust Liberty - the power of choosing, thinking, and acting for oneself; freedom from control or restriction --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 11 20:25:54 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 092792588C12 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 20:25:54 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from fed1rmfepo103.cox.net (fed1rmfepo103.cox.net [68.230.241.145]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6A492588106 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 15:16:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fed1rmimpo306.cox.net ([68.230.241.174]) by fed1rmfepo103.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.01.05.15 201-2260-151-145-20131218) with ESMTP id <20160411212417.YFXO3955.fed1rmfepo103.cox.net@fed1rmimpo306.cox.net> for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 17:24:17 -0400 Received: from John-PC.cox.net ([24.254.213.227]) by fed1rmimpo306.cox.net with cox id h9QH1s0014uwYHU019QHUB; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 17:24:17 -0400 reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 a=1uXzHskWtM6b6G3593e3IQ==:117 a=1uXzHskWtM6b6G3593e3IQ==:17 a=L9H7d07YOLsA:10 a=9cW_t1CCXrUA:10 a=s5jvgZ67dGcA:10 a=kviXuzpPAAAA:8 a=zOoktvdPAAAA:8 a=q6SfDYXhAAAA:8 a=_6GpL_ENAAAA:8 a=kys2UyXWj07vxxawFQMA:9 a=hKGnNlx_YKaTOIsx:21 a=wRU6ax1vK-sy6Hcm:21 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=aav4MXMyVXkA:10 a=4zxjrV59PHAA:10 a=bz_d9vehOyUA:10 a=GGwxkeRKJ0dr3Umyi5gA:9 a=Wub97ct_uOu-cDSA:21 a=RW3C5eVi-XgaOy7K:21 a=DK2zj65wngFqcP-N:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 Authentication-Results: cox.net; none Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 17:19:12 -0400 To: "shop-talk" From: "John T. Blair" References: <6.2.5.6.1.20160411082501.04cd3298@cox.net> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Fuel Injector Cleaners Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============6912515941184433158== boundary="=====================_34428094==.ALT" --=====================_34428094==.ALT Thanks to all those that answered. Michael asked, "did you ask them what in the readings suggested the need?" No I didn't ask. Didn't think of it. And no, I haven't noticed any missing, no check engine light, and no error codes come up on my reader. I think they were just looking at either the roughly 60K miles of the 10 yrs of age. This isn't the first time I've had a shop suggest having the injectors cleaned, but no one as actually given me an error code, or a real reason, other than "it should be done." Last time someone said that to me I put a can of Sea Foam in like John suggested. I've used that and couple of other products and never had a problem. But I don't use any product regularly. I guess I probably should as a $5-$10 can of something 1 or 2 times a year is cheap insurance and definately cheaper than $150! PJ said, "but I have sent off sets to Marren Injection to have them done,". I've heard of that before, but that is a lot more than $150. Don't know if we still do but there was a place in town that did the off vechile cleaning for the deisel trucks. Thanks again for all the info. John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948@cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy: e pluribus Unum, "from many, one." In God We Trust Liberty - the power of choosing, thinking, and acting for oneself; freedom from control or restriction --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus --=====================_34428094==.ALT Thanks to all those that answered.

Michael asked, "did you ask them what in the readings suggested the need?"

No I didn't ask.  Didn't think of it. 

And no, I haven't noticed any missing, no check engine light, and no error codes
come up on my reader.

I think they were just looking at either the roughly 60K miles of the 10 yrs of age.

This isn't the first time I've had a shop suggest having the injectors cleaned, but
no one as actually given me an error code, or a real reason, other than "it should
be done."

Last time someone said that to me I put a can of Sea Foam in like John
suggested.  I've used that and couple of other products and never had a problem.
But I don't use any product regularly.  I guess I probably should as a $5-$10 can
of something 1 or 2 times a year is cheap insurance and definately cheaper than
$150!

PJ said, "but I have sent off sets to Marren Injection to have them done,".  I've
heard of that before, but that is a lot more than $150.  Don't know if we still do
but there was a place in town that did the off vechile cleaning for the deisel trucks.

Thanks again for all the info.

John




Virus-free. www.avast.com

John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948@cox.net
Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229

          48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
     75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                       65 Rambler Classic

Bricklin:  www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
     e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
     In God We Trust
     Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for 
                  oneself; freedom  from  control  or  restriction 


--=====================_34428094==.ALT-- --===============6912515941184433158== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============6912515941184433158==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 11 22:07:01 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E47B02589445 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 22:07:01 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail.milleredp.com (fw.milleredp.com [198.144.208.110]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD5502584CE2 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 17:18:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [10.1.2.100] ([::ffff:10.1.2.100]) (AUTH: PLAIN jem, TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,128bits,AES128-SHA) by mail.milleredp.com with ESMTPSA; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 16:26:27 -0700 id 000000000028001E.00000000570C32A3.00007A79 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <6.2.5.6.1.20160411082501.04cd3298@cox.net> From: John Miller Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 16:26:28 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Fuel Injector Cleaners Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > I went to get my car, a '06 Scion xB /w 54,000 mi, state inspected > on Sat. When it was done, they suggested that I have the fuel > injectors "cleaned". > Only $150! Why? Is it idling unevenly? Throwing codes saying one or more cylinders has maxed out its fuel trim? If not, just buy 'Top Tier' gas and forget it. John. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 11 22:43:54 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1675258799E for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 22:43:53 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from smtp.centurylink.net (mail.centurylink.net [205.219.233.9]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0F5A25896D0 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 18:34:53 -0600 (MDT) X_CMAE_Category: , , a=I0wsP0/ub+0M/VQyKFHlEA==:117 a=I0wsP0/ub+0M/VQyKFHlEA==:17 a=L9H7d07YOLsA:10 a=9cW_t1CCXrUA:10 a=s5jvgZ67dGcA:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=B0zG-qo-unlDLHn3R_kA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 Authentication-Results: smtp02.agate.dfw.synacor.com smtp.user=ejrussell@mebtel.net; auth=pass (LOGIN) Received: from [99.194.29.42] ([99.194.29.42:27425] helo=EricJRussellPC) by smtp.centurylink.net (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.5.1.37854 r(Momo-dev:3.5.1.0)) with ESMTPA id BA/45-20200-9844C075; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 20:42:50 -0400 From: "Eric J Russell" To: , "John T. Blair" References: <6.2.5.6.1.20160411082501.04cd3298@cox.net> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 20:41:57 -0400 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Fuel Injector Cleaners Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > they suggested that I have the fuel injectors "cleaned". I agree with the advice to not bother. If the car is sunning well, passes emissions and is driven regularly there should be no need for such treatment. If there is a running issue I advise removing the injectors and sending them out for service. They can be cleaned in an ultrasonic bath and have solvents flowed threw them to restore neglected/gummed up injectors. I've used Cruzin Performance and OK Injectors when I brought some neglected Alfa's back to life. They test before & after. Eric Russell Mebane, NC _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 12 03:15:07 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD3ED25851E7 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2016 03:15:07 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from BLU004-OMC2S34.hotmail.com (blu004-omc2s34.hotmail.com [65.55.111.109]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF0AC2585629 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 22:53:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from BLU436-SMTP37 ([65.55.111.73]) by BLU004-OMC2S34.hotmail.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.23008); Mon, 11 Apr 2016 22:01:44 -0700 From: Jack Brooks To: References: <6.2.5.6.1.20160411082501.04cd3298@cox.net> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 22:01:25 -0700 Thread-Index: AQIoNveOPm4NudsH3RjRlkFG/Xduxp7Yf2gQ Content-Language: en-us FILETIME=[6750CCF0:01D19478] Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Fuel Injector Cleaners Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net John, Is this a trusted shop that you regularly do business with? It sounds like an upsell to me. I buy the Techron injector cleaner at Costco (6 pack) when it's on sale and put one bottle in every car during the summer and found that to be sufficient that I don't think I've ever had an injector issue. Seafoam, Marvel Mystery Oil are two that I've heard people like too. I suspect just using one of the better grades of fuel (Top Tier?) which has cleaners in it would be fine also. My cost for the Techron at Costco is about $3/car/year. That is about what I think the injector clogging issue is worth with today's fuel and cars. I would not go anywhere near a $150 injector flush. If the injectors truly are dirty, your emissions and drivability may suffer and you should get them cleaned professionally (ultrasonic) for about $25-$30/injector. This would be a far better investment. Jack -----Original Message----- From: Shop-talk [mailto:shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John T. Blair Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 8:14 AM To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] Fuel Injector Cleaners Hey gang, I went to get my car, a '06 Scion xB /w 54,000 mi, state inspected on Sat. When it was done, they suggested that I have the fuel injectors "cleaned". Only $150! My question to the group, is do you all have this done? All I've seen on shows like 60 min, is that the shops were telling people to have it done, and then charging the customer, but not doing the work. Are any of the in the bottle cleaners any good? Is this a good as the "shop cleaning"? I assume that they don't take the injectors off the engine, so really all they're doing is pumping a chemical through the system. Maybe a little better than mixing with the fuel and running it through the system. If you recommend a cleaner in the bottle, which ones and how often? Or is all this really snake oil? TIA John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948@cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy: e pluribus Unum, "from many, one." In God We Trust Liberty - the power of choosing, thinking, and acting for oneself; freedom from control or restriction --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jibrooks@live.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 12 14:56:59 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62B9C2588B09 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2016 14:56:59 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-io0-f177.google.com (mail-io0-f177.google.com [209.85.223.177]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 888922588C3A for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2016 09:11:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-io0-f177.google.com with SMTP id o126so32546330iod.0 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2016 08:19:45 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to; bh=64RivapweZxkIgWndoXCxWQWRicljh5AmzNadS/71sA=; b=IkXtEu1VpXX2eaEjVIosfR8Px9WVOViGBtClJRtbjpIr6fyvzuTRs49aXI4gjkaLVL 2CVl99t14VcSfiGxsKBWceIGvv7cIBqT453DHTE7vBI1V5yTZhDfZI6M7PYuj8n/niIj 6eU991YnExXgtgpMli++JXTf0WCm19DQoW0bq+hN7hw3wZH/z1HvTW/DjFv2xmSwk+zB rc4QgfjNgjoOQOHs1ZZ9ENoSxrzkS5DKKS345CDEwf9wP0XF36lZRREAHpq+Rkv9hMEJ dzV3nt0ol8BWf0BjHXGUCiHTvY/tf0mM33M3mRFLSlOBaj2obLReVAInInzyQX6pYHmB D5IA== d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to; bh=64RivapweZxkIgWndoXCxWQWRicljh5AmzNadS/71sA=; b=A5+ut2Bkc+IPYHhNnSqO0lClGfcOavoz8c19Rkcvnguj+2kECuWuDdH54Yg0zvk/Qy 76qUkBvodxgJJKzRukxSkMZhYc7nyOiKB5x10YrRAY0WPSnM5ndYw9oLTYHYdWHcaiTn E4VaYhtFv/hIL+XfzI+VBwTV5pe+ZpgIMk0LgGcQSF2HAodE/wgsbLnFTBANcFEIYCRq CRngyneuWuOb1OqRk/VnrR9P0DhlhdgJxOY6KS++3K9ZhqKlkAP8UVZY1qNQ/rRBS8rg VMyN5c8N2S+tb5KEHcPJfqLY+7rAQwImBpXq1wxcNmCJSF2cEfs3GXb3qPUaPaIJXgqU 2o0w== Tue, 12 Apr 2016 08:19:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.209.68 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Apr 2016 08:19:39 -0700 (PDT) References: <785345312.9407989.1460385994776.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2016 11:19:39 -0400 From: Jeff Scarbrough To: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools....battery disposal tangent Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 1:28 PM, Randall wrote: > Personally, I'm a lot less worried > about rivers in China than I am the landfill up the hill (from where I used to live). To be sure, the land fill is more immediate. However, it's much more likely to be equipped with a liner and a leachate collection system that ensures any fugitive emissions will be collected and properly treated. Not so much the river in China. Having said that, it appears there are certainly cases where it's better to toss the trash rather than recycle it. At work, I'm not allowed to recycle electronics unless the recycler is certified to properly handle and dispose of the waste. Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 12 16:21:19 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A327E258882A for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2016 16:21:19 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail.milleredp.com (fw.milleredp.com [198.144.208.110]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C6052584770 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2016 09:36:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [10.1.2.100] ([::ffff:10.1.2.100]) (AUTH: PLAIN jem, TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,128bits,AES128-SHA) by mail.milleredp.com with ESMTPSA; Tue, 12 Apr 2016 08:44:36 -0700 id 00000000002800AD.00000000570D17E4.00003DAE To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <6.2.5.6.1.20160411082501.04cd3298@cox.net> <6.2.5.6.1.20160411170755.04cd60b8@cox.net> From: John Miller Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2016 08:44:37 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Fuel Injector Cleaners Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > I think they were just looking at either the roughly 60K miles of the 10 > yrs of age. 60K is nothing these days. The OBD-II monitoring in the ECU tracks the fuel trim, and will throw a code if the ECU isn't able to get things good enough. If it's running reasonably well, passes smog, doesn't throw codes, then don't worry about it. John. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 12 21:55:53 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E75E2587EF1 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2016 21:55:53 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-ch2-11v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-po-11v.sys.comcast.net [96.114.154.170]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49EB22588676 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2016 14:55:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-po-13v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.237]) by comcast with SMTP id q5SmalmDGvJlgq5TIaIbWq; Tue, 12 Apr 2016 21:03:40 +0000 s=q20140121; t=1460495020; bh=bDtqWYKFa3n+WSb9zn56D5sEqBfspmTrQ05eMOuVL34=; h=Received:Received:Date:From:To:Message-ID:Subject:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=nreECXPJBQFzeehgPhTOxgutswlQ7yzfEexw45s1W4oRTrd3FEg8AwhN84WmC8BVM sGHWTAzr3fy1HdJmyorSw6dgJnOLakBNn6t9GNxmKFXeyr1D/9HKO1G3KELEt0spVI V+1bzmzTqEPNNdkMKTPCuMcoOis5q3+YEiF+eK2JVIKnnY5rZELiCQyOsBuGzPYocr T54ZewQavDoUvPEpL7hRtw1iZxC1heMVUHXcMt9IE34+aQ1Qk/umlbY9umltDGIL2E s/2YluOeijBUhPyBMqweosm7qvieYOm8Aa1HtnHiPfdvCseKFs8hvS9OQKc/NBxubu 5H4suz90z15aA== Received: from resmail-po-057v.sys.comcast.net ([162.150.176.67]) by resomta-po-13v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id hZ3f1s00L1TddKW01Z3faR; Tue, 12 Apr 2016 21:03:40 +0000 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2016 21:03:39 +0000 (UTC) From: Bob Spidell To: Randall References: Thread-Topic: Battery-operated tools....battery disposal tangent Thread-Index: AdGUF5znCQOZBkQ5SJaudkxyKzgbnpDVkQpV Cc: ShopTalk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Battery-operated tools....battery disposal tangent Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============6516640869942215838== boundary="----=_Part_10532342_1173426192.1460495019705" ------=_Part_10532342_1173426192.1460495019705 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Looks like most of the battery recycling is legit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_recycling The other stuff, not necessarily: http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/30/world/asia/china-electronic-waste-e-waste/ Understand only caring about what's 'up the hill,' but the planet is a closed loop; it'll end up in our air and water eventually. ----- Original Message ----- > I know a lot of places take batteries, fluorescent bulbs, > etc. for recycling, but I have a sneaking suspicion--backed > up by some investigative reporting I've seen--that a lot of > the 'recycled' stuff ends up in rivers in China (presumably > after any valuable components and metals are removed). Interesting. That explains the disclaimer at http://www.lacsd.org/solidwaste/swfacilities/recyclecontact/hhw_e_waste/ "No electronic waste collected at these events is sent overseas." I'm not arguing whether that is true or not; just didn't understand why it was worth mentioning. Personally, I'm a lot less worried about rivers in China than I am the landfill up the hill (from where I used to live). Randall ------=_Part_10532342_1173426192.1460495019705 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Looks like most of the battery recycling is legit:
<= br>

The other stuff, not necessarily:


Understand only caring about what's 'up the hill,= ' but the planet is a closed loop; it'll end up in our air and water eventu= ally.





&= gt; I know a lot of places take batteries, fluorescent bulbs,
> etc.= for recycling, but I have a sneaking suspicion--backed
> up by some= investigative reporting I've seen--that a lot of
> the 'recycled' s= tuff ends up in rivers in China (presumably
> after any valuable com= ponents and metals are removed).

Interesting.  That = explains the disclaimer at http://www.lacsd.org/solidwaste/swfacilities/rec= yclecontact/hhw_e_waste/
"No electronic waste collected at these events = is sent overseas."

I'm not arguing whether that is true o= r not; just didn't understand why it was worth mentioning.  Personally= , I'm a lot less worried
about rivers in China than I am the landfill up= the hill (from where I used to live).

Randall



------=_Part_10532342_1173426192.1460495019705-- --===============6516640869942215838== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============6516640869942215838==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 14 02:23:39 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FE5325888BA for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 02:23:39 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from filter03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net (filter03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net [66.133.183.233]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCBE42587840 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2016 20:25:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by filter03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24FCC18A7C1 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 02:33:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from relay04.roch.ny.frontiernet.net ([66.133.182.167]) by localhost (filter03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net [66.133.183.233]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id PE2kiLL6ITBx for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 02:33:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unknown [50.34.122.60]) by relay04.roch.ny.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 672E017CDB for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 02:33:32 +0000 (UTC) To: shop-talk@autox.team.net From: Dave Cavanaugh Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 19:33:33 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 Subject: [Shop-talk] Alternator terminals Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0951338507701055684== boundary="------------070605060907050405090300" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070605060907050405090300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Our PE department got rid of a bunch of exercise equipment. I pulled a nice commercial exercise bike out of the metal recycle and had the kids strip all the plastic off of it, and I found the guts of it are an automotive type alternator and a big resistor. I want to hook it up as a current source for a battery charger/light bulbs/ammeter/something to give the kids an idea of how much actual work a KW is. The alternator is a Mando 38611-101. A picture of the alternator is here: http://www.gympart.com/itemdesc.aspx?ic=LCA10 If you look at the picture on the link above and rotate it 90 degrees so the black plastic part is at 6:00, it has the following terminals: On the black plastic part, "Ex" and "S". On the main body of the alternator, clockwise from 8:00 the terminals are "L2", "P", "B" and "E". There is also a ground terminal. If you look a this chart, > http://dasko.co.nz/articles/alternator-terminals-explained It looks like all I would need to hook up to would be the "B" terminal and the ground and I can ignore the rest. Do I have this right? On an automotive alternator how fast does it normally have to spin to put out 12V? Thanks Dave --------------070605060907050405090300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Our PE department got rid of a bunch of exercise equipment.  I pulled a nice commercial exercise bike out of the metal recycle and had the kids strip all the plastic off of it, and I found the guts of it are an automotive type alternator and a big resistor.  I want to hook it up as a current source for a battery charger/light bulbs/ammeter/something to give the kids an idea of how much actual work a KW is. 

The alternator is a Mando 38611-101.   A picture of the alternator is here:

http://www.gympart.com/itemdesc.aspx?ic=LCA10

If you look at the picture on the link above and rotate it 90 degrees so the black plastic part is at 6:00, it has the following terminals:
On the black plastic part, "Ex" and "S". 

On the main body of the alternator, clockwise from 8:00 the terminals are "L2", "P", "B" and "E".   There is also a ground terminal. 

If you look a this chart,

http://dasko.co.nz/articles/alternator-terminals-explained

It looks like all I would need to hook up to would be the "B" terminal and the ground and I can ignore the rest. 

Do I have this right? 

On an automotive alternator how fast does it normally have to spin to put out 12V? 

Thanks
Dave








--------------070605060907050405090300-- --===============0951338507701055684== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============0951338507701055684==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 14 04:07:19 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AEAF2588B63 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 04:07:19 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cdptpa-oedge-vip.email.rr.com (cdptpa-outbound-snat.email.rr.com [107.14.166.228]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B7E02587E3D for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 03:11:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.248.153.253] ([172.248.153.253:2071] helo=rypc) by cdptpa-oedge02 (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.5.0.35861 r(Momo-dev:tip)) with ESMTP id CC/60-29674-0806F075; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 09:18:56 +0000 From: "Randall" To: Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 02:18:55 -0700 Thread-Index: AdGWKLr20c92fsBRQ2Grzi3wHBD9IgAAsmvg Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Alternator terminals Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > If you look a this chart, > > > > http://dasko.co.nz/articles/alternator-terminals-explained > > > It looks like all I would need to hook up to would be the "B" > terminal and the ground and I can ignore the rest. > > Do I have this right? You can try that, but I suspect the Ex terminal needs to get current through the warning lamp (which provides excitation when the alternator first starts turning), and the S terminal needs to get battery voltage (The 'sense' input to the voltage regulator). You can use a resistor instead of the lamp, if you want, but you'll still need an external source of 12v to get it working (and a switch to stop it from drawing current all the time). Just jumper the S terminal to the B terminal, though. > On an automotive alternator how fast does it normally have to > spin to put out 12V? They'll usually put out something with the engine idling, maybe 1000-1200 rpm at the alternator. Full output requires more, though, generally something like 5000-7000 at the alternator. Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 14 20:15:29 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06BBD258756B for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 20:15:29 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from filter02.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net (filter02.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net [199.224.80.229]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0962258831E for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 20:11:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by filter02.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5525231605; Fri, 15 Apr 2016 02:19:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from relay03.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net ([199.224.80.246]) by localhost (filter02.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net [199.224.80.229]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 53zktTyOrloV; Fri, 15 Apr 2016 02:18:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unknown [50.34.122.60]) by relay03.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id E151594096; Fri, 15 Apr 2016 02:18:48 +0000 (UTC) To: Randall , shop-talk@autox.team.net References: From: Dave Cavanaugh Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 19:18:52 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Alternator terminals Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thanks; I'll give that a try. We tried just connecting to the B and ground terminals with a meter and could never get higher than 5 VDC no matter how hard we pedaled and when I put a 12 volt lamp in the circuit it didn't even start to glow. On 4/14/2016 2:18 AM, Randall wrote: >> If you look a this chart, >> >> >> >> http://dasko.co.nz/articles/alternator-terminals-explained >> >> >> It looks like all I would need to hook up to would be the "B" >> terminal and the ground and I can ignore the rest. >> >> Do I have this right? > You can try that, but I suspect the Ex terminal needs to get current through the warning lamp (which provides excitation when the > alternator first starts turning), and the S terminal needs to get battery voltage (The 'sense' input to the voltage regulator). You > can use a resistor instead of the lamp, if you want, but you'll still need an external source of 12v to get it working (and a switch > to stop it from drawing current all the time). Just jumper the S terminal to the B terminal, though. > >> On an automotive alternator how fast does it normally have to >> spin to put out 12V? > They'll usually put out something with the engine idling, maybe 1000-1200 rpm at the alternator. Full output requires more, though, > generally something like 5000-7000 at the alternator. > > Randall > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/cavanadd@frontier.com > > _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 17 13:33:19 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34F0725875F0 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2016 13:33:19 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from homiemail-a119.g.dreamhost.com (caibbdcaaahg.dreamhost.com [208.113.200.76]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94EA82588383 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2016 12:42:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from homiemail-a119.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a119.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 737076000506C for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2016 11:50:42 -0700 (PDT) :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:subject:message-id:date :to:mime-version; s=groupwbench.org; bh=KT2C/IeFksmuggslypL0GBJR UDw=; b=jXWG/9ns/smuExDO0EtqrKDcOgdWIGjXZQUSdS8Ekfjhc2d47xSgZa9Q e8Ze8LRm1OMIQLzShLwDn6eWoZzbwwaiHEJpxUYRBTFuRKmvD63gFYrI8ByuBFMR udr9lBXYTo9nx4jhm0mZWZ/moeDVp99Ve0bPWLqMKgNfYk09TiQ= Received: from jims-imac.home (pool-98-118-109-236.bstnma.fios.verizon.net [98.118.109.236]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jamesf@groupwbench.org) by homiemail-a119.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 04ADB60005057 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2016 11:50:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Franklin Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 14:50:40 -0400 To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] Will a popped circuit breaker ground the hot wire? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I'm adding some wiring to a circuit, and while testing the new Decora switch to see which way was up, I noticed there was conductivity between the hot lead and the grounded electrical box. Is this how it should be with the circuit breaker off? Googling this seemingly simple question gets me answers to all kinds of other questions :-\ I undid all the connectors back to the origin of my work, so it isn't anything new unless I pierced a wire in the wall with a sheetrock screw... (There's also conductivity between the hot & neutral, which I expected given the ground-neutral bonding in the main panel) thanks, jim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 17 15:25:15 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD382258604A for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2016 15:25:15 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from outbound-mail02.vgs.untd.com (outbound-mail02.vgs.untd.com [64.136.55.36]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id DB2A825881F1 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2016 15:14:17 -0600 (MDT) t=1460928138; bh=47DEQpj8HBSa+/TImW+5JCeuQeRkm5NMpJWZG3hSuFU=; l=0; h=From:Date:To:Subject:Message-Id:Content-Type; b=hsbNga9q5QyAqNGwf3dFdOlPTdruq/x/yjvdBBYopIcU87sRcff6Ck4Z+hT/B/7KI /Fnf0jWlgz3tXh1oOy1CwGJ5/InWtQzESlsAeO+Z1ABAV97V+OM16aR/dK0bqX4k7z 5hsxIf0I9o0WV9HTdBvFYodBPmTWm/sl9k3PPeAE= Received: from outbound-mail.vgs.untd.com (webmail51.vgs.untd.com [10.181.12.191]) by smtpout01.vgs.untd.com with SMTP id AABMTH9VMAJ8UEL2 for (sender ); Sun, 17 Apr 2016 14:21:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [173.21.140.236] by webmail51.vgs.untd.com with HTTP: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 21:20:18 GMT From: "Matt" Full-Name: "Matt" Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 21:20:18 GMT To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] L shaped fuel tank problem Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============4996176155822045221== ----__JWM__J2cfe039f.3e465962S.6cb0563cM Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline I have an old steel L tank out behind the shop that goes i the back of= a pick up and I was considering refurbishing it for diesel containment.= Overall it is in decent condition, but I planned to clean out the inside= - maybe some acid treatment and a coat of fresh paint on the outside. O= n the bottom is a half inch hole and it may have been tapped, but the me= tal is not that thick.Generally I would think a socket head plug would g= o there to act as a drain, but I am not sure there is enough steel there= to form a reliable seal.Any ideas on how to best treat this? I could t= ap for a plug and try it... I considered welding or JB Welding some larg= e washers to provide enough meat to allow a socket plug to work..Any oth= er appropriate "stoppers" come to mind? I was also considering just seal= ing up the hole on the bottom and adding a drain on a vertical surface n= ear the bottom. MattColumbus, GA ----__JWM__J2cfe039f.3e465962S.6cb0563cM Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
 
 I have an old steel L tank out behind the shop that goes i th= e back of a pick up and I was considering refurbishing it for = diesel containment.
Overall it is in decent condition, but I planned to clean out = the inside - maybe some acid treatment and a coat of fresh paint on the = outside.
 
On the bottom is a half inch hole and it may have been tapped, but = the metal is not that thick.
Generally I would think a socket head plug would go there to act as= a drain, but I am not sure there is enough steel there to form a reliab= le seal.
Any ideas on how to best treat this?  I could tap for a plug a= nd try it...
 
I considered welding or JB Welding some large washers to provide en= ough meat to allow a socket plug to work..
Any other appropriate "stoppers" come to mind?
 
I was also considering just sealing up the hole on the bottom and a= dding a drain on a vertical surface near the bottom.
 
 
Matt
Columbus, GA
----__JWM__J2cfe039f.3e465962S.6cb0563cM-- --===============4996176155822045221== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============4996176155822045221==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 17 15:57:34 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C83325864F0 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2016 15:57:34 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.67]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B024E25881F6 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2016 15:28:49 -0600 (MDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=WWYioE0thFnbOBb6tgNMZu9U759Zbgk6ecaLFkSPG4qGXMm3Khb/RM7VUhNSZY8L; h=Received:Subject:To:References:From:Message-ID:Date:User-Agent:MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [172.6.8.121] (helo=[192.168.1.3]) by elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1aruMw-0006o1-O3; Sun, 17 Apr 2016 17:36:38 -0400 To: Jim Franklin , Shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <76BBEE65-62DE-4285-961B-F25B8F606A5A@groupwbench.org> From: Brian Kemp Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 14:36:35 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Will a popped circuit breaker ground the hot wire? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Jim - Is there anything in the circuit that might be creating the path to ground? Maybe you are getting continuity through an incandescent light bulb. I would test the switch out of the circuit. There should never be continuity between either of the hot wire screws of the switch and the ground screw. If you look closely at the switch, you will probably see the word "TOP" stamped on the metal frame of the switch. Brian On 4/17/2016 11:50 AM, Jim Franklin wrote: > I'm adding some wiring to a circuit, and while testing the new Decora switch to see which way was up, I noticed there was conductivity between the hot lead and the grounded electrical box. Is this how it should be with the circuit breaker off? Googling this seemingly simple question gets me answers to all kinds of other questions :-\ > > I undid all the connectors back to the origin of my work, so it isn't anything new unless I pierced a wire in the wall with a sheetrock screw... > > (There's also conductivity between the hot & neutral, which I expected given the ground-neutral bonding in the main panel) > > thanks, > jim > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13@earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 17 16:27:49 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E85C2585739 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2016 16:27:49 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from homiemail-a42.g.dreamhost.com (sub5.mail.dreamhost.com [208.113.200.129]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 524842585DBE for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2016 15:51:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from homiemail-a42.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a42.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABF6068C05D for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2016 14:59:48 -0700 (PDT) :content-type:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:references:to :in-reply-to; s=groupwbench.org; bh=wyalZqObtRYHiIqMWVudlZ5xwzw= ; b=qz3n+YEGX+lVDXFg72sbasUYIN7BtvsqXG2FMynE9+fqXQ+91E81ZsY1Nq0G szGw+U/C284SzfAyHfflCiQbf5UiwjwnkPhaZBjf+36dPfdLWSviMG0rq/FPRjtl aGg5p7ss9OcIk3GwJOYLy0MBAbB1FNMe/ua3WYVMcP56PRM= Received: from jims-imac.home (pool-98-118-109-236.bstnma.fios.verizon.net [98.118.109.236]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jamesf@groupwbench.org) by homiemail-a42.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 53A1868C05B for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2016 14:59:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Franklin Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 17:59:46 -0400 References: <76BBEE65-62DE-4285-961B-F25B8F606A5A@groupwbench.org> <571401E3.8050800@earthlink.net> To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Will a popped circuit breaker ground the hot wire? Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============2216264890476278718== --Apple-Mail=_2EF25025-D2DF-4928-B2F0-0841D1AD8DA4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=windows-1252 On Apr 17, 2016, at 5:36 PM, Brian Kemp wrote: > Jim - Is there anything in the circuit that might be creating the path = to ground? Maybe you are getting continuity through an incandescent = light bulb. Yea, just realized (when I reset the breaker to get the ultimate answer = :-) ) that the oil burner is connected to the same circuit. It fired up = so the circuit is clean. Sure cost me a whole bunch of hours though.=20 >=20 > If you look closely at the switch, you will probably see the word = "TOP" stamped on the metal frame of the switch. I looked, nothing there. It's a double switch that I'm mounting = sideways, something maybe they didn't account for?=20 jim= --Apple-Mail=_2EF25025-D2DF-4928-B2F0-0841D1AD8DA4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=windows-1252
On Apr 17, 2016, at 5:36 PM, Brian = Kemp <bk13@earthlink.net> = wrote:

Jim - Is there anything in the = circuit that might be creating the path to ground?  Maybe you are = getting continuity through an incandescent light bulb.

Yea, = just realized (when I reset the breaker to get the ultimate answer :-) ) = that the oil burner is connected to the same circuit. It fired up so the = circuit is clean. Sure cost me a whole bunch of hours = though. 


If you look closely at the switch, you will probably see = the word "TOP" stamped on the metal frame of the = switch.

I looked, nothing there. It's = a double switch that I'm mounting sideways, something maybe they didn't = account for? 

jim
= --Apple-Mail=_2EF25025-D2DF-4928-B2F0-0841D1AD8DA4-- --===============2216264890476278718== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============2216264890476278718==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 17 22:36:16 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26CDA25880B8 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2016 22:36:16 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from filter02.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net (filter02.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net [199.224.80.229]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1B0825858E5 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2016 20:02:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by filter02.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40E92231416 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 02:10:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from relay04.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net ([199.224.80.247]) by localhost (filter02.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net [199.224.80.229]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id LZNKfRss1J3Y for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 02:10:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unknown [50.34.122.60]) by relay04.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 573352F8097 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 02:10:17 +0000 (UTC) To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <20160417.172018.10066.0@webmail51.vgs.untd.com> From: Dave Cavanaugh Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 19:10:29 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] L shaped fuel tank problem Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============6696642294500313194== boundary="------------090808060307040602080406" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090808060307040602080406 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I use JB weld for a lot of stuff, but that's not one I would do. I'd weld something over the hole that's thick enough to take threads and call it good, assuming the tank is safe to weld on. On 4/17/2016 2:20 PM, Matt wrote: > I have an old steel L tank out behind the shop that goes i the back > of a pick up and I was considering refurbishing it for diesel containment. > Overall it is in decent condition, but I planned to clean out the > inside - maybe some acid treatment and a coat of fresh paint on the > outside. > On the bottom is a half inch hole and it may have been tapped, but the > metal is not that thick. > Generally I would think a socket head plug would go there to act as a > drain, but I am not sure there is enough steel there to form a > reliable seal. > Any ideas on how to best treat this? I could tap for a plug and try it... > I considered welding or JB Welding some large washers to provide > enough meat to allow a socket plug to work.. > Any other appropriate "stoppers" come to mind? > I was also considering just sealing up the hole on the bottom and > adding a drain on a vertical surface near the bottom. > Matt > Columbus, GA > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/cavanadd@frontier.com > --------------090808060307040602080406 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I use JB weld for a lot of stuff, but that's not one I would do.  I'd weld something over the hole that's thick enough to take threads and call it good, assuming the tank is safe to weld on. 


On 4/17/2016 2:20 PM, Matt wrote:
 
 I have an old steel L tank out behind the shop that goes i the back of a pick up and I was considering refurbishing it for diesel containment.
Overall it is in decent condition, but I planned to clean out the inside - maybe some acid treatment and a coat of fresh paint on the outside.
 
On the bottom is a half inch hole and it may have been tapped, but the metal is not that thick.
Generally I would think a socket head plug would go there to act as a drain, but I am not sure there is enough steel there to form a reliable seal.
Any ideas on how to best treat this?  I could tap for a plug and try it...
 
I considered welding or JB Welding some large washers to provide enough meat to allow a socket plug to work..
Any other appropriate "stoppers" come to mind?
 
I was also considering just sealing up the hole on the bottom and adding a drain on a vertical surface near the bottom.
 
 
Matt
Columbus, GA


_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums

--------------090808060307040602080406-- --===============6696642294500313194== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============6696642294500313194==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 18 15:22:23 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B900725847EC for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 15:22:23 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-yw0-f182.google.com (mail-yw0-f182.google.com [209.85.161.182]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C6AC2587C15 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 13:11:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-yw0-f182.google.com with SMTP id o66so214153321ywc.3 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 12:19:42 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc; bh=c0XT8ImC/uFI3K3+x4McgNIaFU2mM1VMS3cNFS2rqTA=; b=leejGAmql+RP44DAznw+Q7eY+w+rwVDBUByYYd2E+7GDXJRSchtmju0fONuFI3lT1Z XTBMAr+S+rs/zh6SYHDFFLe7bLdOtVOZgFTvBTTmezCxkFsAer+sCQqTPKl6AmdcHlZT 53yPeUWEYvyxlGG00A4Oy3PuqARLsq2X88j3FHr/2fVAZpVM+w7QBhvTSKyNNM7Ntv5p flFAXvRwKVx2YJqxh3U9JuVIvo27n90pZ42xva0kAAYbZ6xYwyxn2x6PV0dkFGqPl5Ix NZWhjLkCmlFqeq+NQ67NLNpRl5MaJFSC+EXr2oJ605ponVRyr++mCu8+InxllBajyl+Z a66Q== d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc; bh=c0XT8ImC/uFI3K3+x4McgNIaFU2mM1VMS3cNFS2rqTA=; b=Tx2t/Lc7zCSC7NahIpfoKtyVcE82Sx6uX66nHC1QyXgU+c1wuJlV321nVTTVqYSSjB dx5s8q7/SC9IieCUoN+yW/kYigt+ovB2grnKkjvqaJj6Jp2Qa1kzu56UdKt/1mwYVaLP 6Hd82d8TPSZdJlSj34+36bUr2y+Vd1soAZuSMIdo7pnMZHBZW2SpaiY8No0w1zUTecsJ NaF4nw7YXfYJj/rDvPYKGxVnuBEOtodHmJSzQT81XQUEBSoeUvsqXBvXGBp++7ae8pOK sXYQ/rIOgCXgUeC5b+paVKbipmk1TNZuvxW/vIZyGyAVNwAC6CgAiE2Rofh4B5oeRwQu fmug== Mon, 18 Apr 2016 12:19:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.13.194.66 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 12:19:36 -0700 (PDT) References: <20160417.172018.10066.0@webmail51.vgs.untd.com> Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 14:19:36 -0500 From: John Innis To: Matt Cc: shop-talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] L shaped fuel tank problem Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============8982843488523371296== --001a114dcb66c155ac0530c73dfe You need a bung hole. No, really that's what they are called! A piece of steel tubing that is thick enough to take threads and can be welded into thinner sheet. Make sure you get one of a materiel that matches your tank. http://www.jegs.com/i/Currie/272/95070/10002/-1 On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 4:20 PM, Matt wrote: > > I have an old steel L tank out behind the shop that goes i the back of a > pick up and I was considering refurbishing it for diesel containment. > Overall it is in decent condition, but I planned to clean out the inside - > maybe some acid treatment and a coat of fresh paint on the outside. > > On the bottom is a half inch hole and it may have been tapped, but the > metal is not that thick. > Generally I would think a socket head plug would go there to act as a > drain, but I am not sure there is enough steel there to form a reliable > seal. > Any ideas on how to best treat this? I could tap for a plug and try it... > > I considered welding or JB Welding some large washers to provide enough > meat to allow a socket plug to work.. > Any other appropriate "stoppers" come to mind? > > I was also considering just sealing up the hole on the bottom and adding a > drain on a vertical surface near the bottom. > > > Matt > Columbus, GA > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis@gmail.com > > > -- ================================= = Never offend people with style when you = = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = ================================= --001a114dcb66c155ac0530c73dfe Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
You need a bung hole.=C2=A0 No, really that's what the= y are called!=C2=A0=C2=A0 A piece of steel tubing that is thick enough to t= ake threads and can be welded into thinner sheet.=C2=A0 Make sure you get o= ne of a materiel that matches your tank.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Currie/272/95070/100= 02/-1

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 4:20 PM, Matt <mbarre@juno.com> wrot= e:
=C2=A0
=C2=A0I have an old steel L tank out behind the shop that goes i the b= ack of a pick up and=C2=A0I was considering=C2=A0refurbishing it for diesel= containment.
Overall it is in decent=C2=A0condition, but I planned to clean out the= inside - maybe some acid treatment and a coat of fresh paint on the outsid= e.
=C2=A0
On the bottom is a half inch hole and it may have been tapped, but the= metal is not that thick.
Generally I would think a socket head plug would go there to act as a = drain, but I am not sure there is enough steel there to form a reliable sea= l.
Any ideas on how to best treat this?=C2=A0 I could tap for a plug and = try it...
=C2=A0
I considered welding or JB Welding some large washers to provide enoug= h meat to allow a socket plug to work..
Any other appropriate "stoppers" come to mind?
=C2=A0
I was also considering just sealing up the hole on the bottom and addi= ng a drain on a vertical surface near the bottom.
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Matt
Columbus, GA

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
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--
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D Never offend people with style = when you=C2=A0=C2=A0 =3D
=3D can offend with substance --- Sam Brown=C2= =A0 =3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
--001a114dcb66c155ac0530c73dfe-- --===============8982843488523371296== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============8982843488523371296==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 18 16:57:54 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C94F2587AA4 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 16:57:54 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from outbound-mail02.vgs.untd.com (outbound-mail02.vgs.untd.com [64.136.55.36]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 8C8E92587AFF for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 13:41:04 -0600 (MDT) t=1461008946; bh=47DEQpj8HBSa+/TImW+5JCeuQeRkm5NMpJWZG3hSuFU=; l=0; h=From:Date:To:Cc:Subject:Message-Id:Content-Type; b=dUbfPj09cff7KU2JMIgasMJhdh4VkCTvs5iAiD9v4+Tjw+QbbNbHVKi/oYTfjluFH VFZZTCH3GcmWh3DtS7aTT9nwl3ImF+PKV8d9VOJG+2hkMVF0LqI4ETNGt0+UPqlPBh bQKk7v0Xw/u70vOjpB/eT8DqKOM84zRU7jXfv8PM= Received: from outbound-bu1.vgs.untd.com (webmail11.vgs.untd.com [10.181.12.151]) by smtpout02.vgs.untd.com with SMTP id AABMTLQR7ATB6XCJ for (sender ); Mon, 18 Apr 2016 12:48:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [173.21.140.236] by webmail11.vgs.untd.com with HTTP: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 19:47:57 GMT From: "Matt" Full-Name: "Matt" Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 19:47:57 GMT To: jdinnis@gmail.com Cc: shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] L shaped fuel tank problem Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============8321680437204560612== ----__JWM__J19b6f927.444c411aS.2fb36e09M Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Winner winner - chicken dinner! I knew the shop talk list would come thr= ough. Thanks John! = ---------- Original Message ---------- From: John Innis To: Matt Cc: shop-talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] L shaped fuel tank problem Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 14:19:36 -0500 You need a bung hole. No, really that's what they are called! A piece= of steel tubing that is thick enough to take threads and can be welded = into thinner sheet. Make sure you get one of a materiel that matches yo= ur tank. http://www.jegs.com/i/Currie/272/95070/10002/-1 On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 4:20 PM, Matt wrote: I have an old steel L tank out behind the shop that goes i the back of= a pick up and I was considering refurbishing it for diesel containment.= Overall it is in decent condition, but I planned to clean out the inside= - maybe some acid treatment and a coat of fresh paint on the outside. O= n the bottom is a half inch hole and it may have been tapped, but the me= tal is not that thick.Generally I would think a socket head plug would g= o there to act as a drain, but I am not sure there is enough steel there= to form a reliable seal.Any ideas on how to best treat this? I could t= ap for a plug and try it... I considered welding or JB Welding some larg= e washers to provide enough meat to allow a socket plug to work..Any oth= er appropriate "stoppers" come to mind? I was also considering just seal= ing up the hole on the bottom and adding a drain on a vertical surface n= ear the bottom. MattColumbus, GA _______________________________________________ = Shop-talk@autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdi= nnis@gmail.com = -- = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D Never offend people with style when you =3D =3D can offend with substance --- Sam Brown =3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ----__JWM__J19b6f927.444c411aS.2fb36e09M Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Winner winner - chicken dinner!
 
I knew the shop talk list would come through.
 
Thanks John!
 
 


---------- Original Message ----------
From: John Innis = <jdinnis@gmail.com>
To: Matt <mbarre@juno.com>
Cc: sho= p-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] L sh= aped fuel tank problem
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 14:19:36 -0500

<= /p>
You need a bung hole.  No, really that's what they= are called!   A piece of steel tubing that is thick enough to= take threads and can be welded into thinner sheet.  Make sure you = get one of a materiel that matches your tank.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Currie/27= 2/95070/10002/-1

On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 4:20 PM, Matt <mbar= re@juno.com> wrote:
 
 I have an old steel L tank out behind the shop that goes i th= e back of a pick up and I was considering refurbishing it for = diesel containment.
Overall it is in decent condition, but I planned to clean out = the inside - maybe some acid treatment and a coat of fresh paint on the = outside.
 
On the bottom is a half inch hole and it may have been tapped, but = the metal is not that thick.
Generally I would think a socket head plug would go there to act as= a drain, but I am not sure there is enough steel there to form a reliab= le seal.
Any ideas on how to best treat this?  I could tap for a plug a= nd try it...
 
I considered welding or JB Welding some large washers to provide en= ough meat to allow a socket plug to work..
Any other appropriate "stoppers" come to mind?
 
I was also considering just sealing up the hole on the bottom and a= dding a drain on a vertical surface near the bottom.
 
 
Matt
Columbus, GA

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate= : http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual dona= tion  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
= Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/opti= ons/shop-talk/jdinnis@gmail.com



--
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D Never o= ffend people with style when you   =3D
=3D can offend with = substance --- Sam Brown  =3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
----__JWM__J19b6f927.444c411aS.2fb36e09M-- --===============8321680437204560612== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============8321680437204560612==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 19 05:43:38 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE75A2587946 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 05:43:38 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ig0-f178.google.com (mail-ig0-f178.google.com [209.85.213.178]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDC8D258792D for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 05:32:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-ig0-f178.google.com with SMTP id gy3so96822475igb.0 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 04:40:51 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to; bh=ZPm+xmJEaMRSOu5d4royJOsnAGGwn7oqVdm4yzsfRt0=; b=hMqBStZF33BDWVAqSz7WnXo+pz8jXmM8kh63HWlBQxfhPWKDUE0wAxM3wR8JQlf+BY T7UR2qMeyD3d4Szth4+MRy/adW6IPxo2BM1FFg+JUwU0O7ETLKC7FvinkW78uj+bhLWC V3gMZ1W82f36S1of9qbR0h1SantCX4Hc+MCoaBwoYOJg7o6HZRUXFK31HfSKP6d909W4 pVHFZ9kLT/pJhO+OnV0jg3nbA9SjZmT3/71TZNB4lW/AqxdyyD9YdQiNxEzzGV9OCxE6 JX/tldYPpbtuho7GMtEbHa0NNcLHIyQ5eLrRnKG/qTM1/jATGxQa54MiVYsf78FQMA3V 88fg== d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to; bh=ZPm+xmJEaMRSOu5d4royJOsnAGGwn7oqVdm4yzsfRt0=; b=C0Yf8tIWz2TujAK1frOxGiKUAcbUrjGzKfxlX2T7jjGyWMl9C5Ry9644kkUPZH5bDA ztXbtAea2DIYzenD6bqnxTxuvdFY+Z939UZCpqP2It3B5XdKk7v0taa3Apy+IbG3Yjww Ij2WMkR6c3cAmGUQ/8MEOsVCQWba5LYZ+BvqDrHEVCC4naKUMogK9JwZwD+sCT9/XAF/ 7I6hqnBohhwT7jZqWiHkmU+56ByMqiu/I953qgEbhN8mINMSl19XAXqgF7sjDgYOgb0d AmLlwYx/Q2NtUXCYYXI3YSwyO09BbV6GJqIrdN364LTJ3/c1yNrhHl+0y0fxYN17qCuZ Vkcw== Tue, 19 Apr 2016 04:40:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.42.142 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 04:40:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 06:40:50 -0500 From: Philip Ethier To: Shop-Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] falling headliner fix? Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============5117071905447769689== --089e013cbd68f689290530d4f25d My MOL has a Saturn with a falling headliner. What's the fix for this? I'd love to hear that there is an adhesive with a little tube ala-WD40 that a guy could poke through little holes in the liner. What's out there to buy? I will cut bigger holes if I have to. It's not a concours car. -- Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue 2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red, the only automatic of the bunch 2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl 2005 Subaru Legacy GT Limited, Regal Blue Pearl http://www.mnautox.com --089e013cbd68f689290530d4f25d Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
My MOL has a Saturn with a falling headliner.=C2=A0 What&#= 39;s the fix for this?

I'd love to hear that there i= s an adhesive with a little tube ala-WD40 that a guy could poke through lit= tle holes in the liner.

What's out there to bu= y?=C2=A0 I will cut bigger holes if I have to.=C2=A0 It's not a concour= s car.

--
Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA
197= 3 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue
200= 4 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red, the only automatic of the bunch
2005 Lo= tus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl
2005 Subaru Legacy GT Limited, Regal = Blue Pearl
http:/= /www.mnautox.com
--089e013cbd68f689290530d4f25d-- --===============5117071905447769689== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============5117071905447769689==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 19 06:55:42 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A7A225846E7 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 06:55:42 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from outbound-mail02.vgs.untd.com (outbound-mail02.vgs.untd.com [64.136.55.36]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id ED6B62587962 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 06:01:27 -0600 (MDT) t=1461067774; bh=47DEQpj8HBSa+/TImW+5JCeuQeRkm5NMpJWZG3hSuFU=; l=0; h=From:Date:To:Cc:Subject:Message-Id:Content-Type; b=ZP9nqZv5FZRBaToT1sv9QQH/NBXYdt2DoFCiAPHEge5b7v+UAxj3B4B7Cx9SpgXJ6 8rD3USX9bpL3+7AZUmyTozT0hME1hnqQExrvH0ZCDGC9hhqvaM/jDM9mMOtAhciX5i Gcplndh0+9gIUr2GQmkAFXYacs0PmVXq07XEjpMc= Received: from outbound-bu1.vgs.untd.com (webmail01.vgs.untd.com [10.181.12.141]) by smtpout03.vgs.untd.com with SMTP id AABMTNH9NAU26F2J for (sender ); Tue, 19 Apr 2016 05:09:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [173.21.140.236] by webmail01.vgs.untd.com with HTTP: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 12:08:44 GMT From: "Matt" Full-Name: "Matt" Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 12:08:44 GMT To: pethier7@gmail.com Cc: shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] falling headliner fix? Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============0210360578254894266== ----__JWM__J386e23f4.2a5de399S.27dc7a63M Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Phil,I will be happy but surprised if anyone reveals a quick and cheap f= ix.I have battled this several times and have come to the conclusion tha= t there is no adequate substitute for pulling out the headliner and reco= vering.When the foam backing on the original material fails, it gets dus= ty and simply defies any attempt to re glue. Shop around, I eventually f= ound a shop (albiet a few years ago) that did a great job for $75.Depend= ing on the car, the shell may not be that hard to remove yourself and yo= u could either buy the fabric and recover yourself or take it to the int= erior shop and have them do it and you could reinstall. Good Luck! = ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Philip Ethier To: Shop-Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] falling headliner fix? Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 06:40:50 -0500 My MOL has a Saturn with a falling headliner. What's the fix for this? = I'd love to hear that there is an adhesive with a little tube ala-WD40 t= hat a guy could poke through little holes in the liner. What's out there= to buy? I will cut bigger holes if I have to. It's not a concours car= . -- = Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA1973 Triumph Stag LE22439U= BW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red, the only aut= omatic of the bunch2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl2005 Subaru Legac= y GT Limited, Regal Blue Pearlhttp://www.mnautox.com ----__JWM__J386e23f4.2a5de399S.27dc7a63M Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Phil,
I will be happy but surprised if anyone reveals a quick and cheap f= ix.
I have battled this several times and have come to the conclusion t= hat there is no adequate substitute for pulling out the headliner and re= covering.
When the foam backing on the original material fails, it gets dusty= and simply defies any attempt to re glue.
 
Shop around, I eventually found a shop (albiet a few years ago) tha= t did a great job for $75.
Depending on the car, the shell may not be that hard to remove your= self and you could either buy the fabric and recover yourself or take it= to the interior shop and have them do it and you could reinstall.
=
 
Good Luck!
 
 
 


---------- Original Message ----------
From: Philip Ethi= er <pethier7@gmail.com>
To: Shop-Talk <shop-talk@autox.team.= net>
Subject: [Shop-talk] falling headliner fix?
Date: Tue, 19 = Apr 2016 06:40:50 -0500

My MOL has a Saturn with a falling headliner.  Wha= t's the fix for this?
 
I'd love to hear that there is an adhesive with a little tube ala-W= D40 that a guy could poke through little holes in the liner.
 
What's out there to buy?  I will cut bigger holes if I have to= .  It's not a concours car.
 
--
Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota= USA
1= 973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue
2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport R= ed, the only automatic of the bunch
2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl<= br style=3D"color: #000000; font-family: verdana,geneva,lucida,'lucida g= rande',arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: #efefef;">2005 Subaru Leg= acy GT Limited, Regal Blue Pearl
http://www.mnautox.com
----__JWM__J386e23f4.2a5de399S.27dc7a63M-- --===============0210360578254894266== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============0210360578254894266==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 19 08:25:45 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 060F42587D6A for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 08:25:45 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mr11p24im-asmtp004.me.com (mr11p24im-asmtp004.me.com [17.110.78.110]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A43B92587637 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 06:50:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.50.64] (unknown [184.105.18.14]) by mr11p24im-asmtp004.me.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7.0.5.36.0 64bit (built Sep 8 2015)) with ESMTPSA id <0O5V00E93TE6T120@mr11p24im-asmtp004.me.com> for shop-talk@autox.team.net; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 12:58:56 +0000 (GMT) definitions=2016-04-19_10:,, signatures=0 clxscore=1011 suspectscore=2 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1510270003 definitions=main-1604190223 References: From: Pat Horne Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 07:58:53 -0500 To: Philip Ethier Cc: Shop-Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] falling headliner fix? Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============0296432415335350315== boundary=Apple-Mail-F3204399-5C71-4BEB-91C9-B3D76B97B71C Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit --Apple-Mail-F3204399-5C71-4BEB-91C9-B3D76B97B71C charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What is failing is the foam above the fabric. Remove the headliner, scrape o= ff the foam & replace with new fabric. The fabric is cheap, about $75. If th= at is too much trouble, pull the fabric out & scrape off the foam. Race, Pat Pat Horne=20 We support Caldwell County Habitat for Humanity On Apr 19, 2016, at 6:40 AM, Philip Ethier wrote: My MOL has a Saturn with a falling headliner. What's the fix for this? I'd love to hear that there is an adhesive with a little tube ala-WD40 that a= guy could poke through little holes in the liner. What's out there to buy? I will cut bigger holes if I have to. It's not a c= oncours car. --=20 Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue 2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red, the only automatic of the bunch 2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl 2005 Subaru Legacy GT Limited, Regal Blue Pearl http://www.mnautox.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive as@icloud.com --Apple-Mail-F3204399-5C71-4BEB-91C9-B3D76B97B71C charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
What is failing is the foam above the f= abric. Remove the headliner, scrape off the foam & replace with new fabr= ic. The fabric is cheap, about $75. If that is too much trouble, pull the fa= bric out & scrape off the foam.

=
Race,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Caldwell County Habitat for Hum= anity


On Apr 19, 2016, at 6:40 AM, Philip= Ethier <pethier7@gmail.com>= wrote:

My MOL has a Saturn with a fallin= g headliner.  What's the fix for this?

I'd love to h= ear that there is an adhesive with a little tube ala-WD40 that a guy could p= oke through little holes in the liner.

What's out t= here to buy?  I will cut bigger holes if I have to.  It's not a co= ncours car.

--
Phil E= thier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA
1973 Triumph Stag LE22= 439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue
2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red, the only automatic of t= he bunch
200= 5 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl
2005 Subaru Legacy GT Limited, Regal Blue Pearl=
http://www.mnautox.com
_______________________________________________
<= span>
Shop-talk@= autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested ann= ual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
<= span>Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-ta= lk/patintexas@icloud.com

= --Apple-Mail-F3204399-5C71-4BEB-91C9-B3D76B97B71C-- --===============0296432415335350315== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============0296432415335350315==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 19 08:59:59 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F4892586316 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 08:59:59 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from eastrmfepo201.cox.net (eastrmfepo201.cox.net [68.230.241.216]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9EAC2584F4A for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 07:35:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eastrmimpo305.cox.net ([68.230.241.237]) by eastrmfepo201.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.01.05.15 201-2260-151-145-20131218) with ESMTP id <20160419134310.XQFR18342.eastrmfepo201.cox.net@eastrmimpo305.cox.net> for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 09:43:10 -0400 Received: from John-PC.cox.net ([24.254.213.227]) by eastrmimpo305.cox.net with cox id kDjA1s0094uwYHU01DjAQR; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 09:43:10 -0400 reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 a=1uXzHskWtM6b6G3593e3IQ==:117 a=1uXzHskWtM6b6G3593e3IQ==:17 a=L9H7d07YOLsA:10 a=9cW_t1CCXrUA:10 a=s5jvgZ67dGcA:10 a=kviXuzpPAAAA:8 a=zOoktvdPAAAA:8 a=q6SfDYXhAAAA:8 a=_6GpL_ENAAAA:8 a=kys2UyXWj07vxxawFQMA:9 a=kbwRDSvsGloxe7ls:21 a=yAr53IVOdtX_EA0r:21 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=aav4MXMyVXkA:10 a=4zxjrV59PHAA:10 a=bz_d9vehOyUA:10 a=m8qhbWVMyOxJPFz2AZIA:9 a=um-XtPcxZPhKD0IL:21 a=_nO2AoRuw8eI4_Tu:21 a=epAESJTrTRQ5VMpy:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 Authentication-Results: cox.net; none Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 09:43:23 -0400 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net From: "John T. Blair" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] falling headliner fix? Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============0270323132616115664== boundary="=====================_4683009==.ALT" --=====================_4683009==.ALT Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 07:40 AM 4/19/2016, Philip Ethier wrote: >My MOL has a Saturn with a falling headliner.=C2 What's the fix for this= ? Unfortunately, I don't think there is a fix in a can. Usually the head liners are a piece of cloth with a foam rubber backing which is glued to a fiberglass sh= ell. Over the years, heat and cool cycles, and wind beating on it (windows rolled down) the foam rubber drys out and crumbles. You can try getting any spray glue and seeing if that won't hold it up for a while, but the real fix is to take it to a shop and have them remove the headliner, clean the old cloth off the shell, and install new material. I don't have any idea what it costs today. I had a Voyager van done years ago for about $125 dollars. But like I say that was well over 10 yrs ago. John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948@cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy: e pluribus Unum, "from many, one." In God We Trust Liberty - the power of choosing, thinking, and acting for oneself; freedom from control or restriction --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus --=====================_4683009==.ALT Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 07:40 AM 4/19/2016, Philip Ethier wrote:

>My MOL has a Saturn with a falling headliner.=C2  What's the fix for this?

Unfortunately, I don't think there is a fix in a can.  Usually the head liners are a
piece of cloth with a foam rubber backing which is glued to a fiberglass shell.

Over the years, heat and cool cycles, and wind beating on it (windows rolled down)
the foam rubber drys out and crumbles.

You can try getting any spray glue and seeing if that won't hold it up for a while,
but the real fix is to take it to a shop and have them remove the headliner, clean
the old cloth off the shell, and install new material.  I don't have any idea what
it costs today.  I had a Voyager van done years ago for about $125 dollars.  But
like I say that was well over 10 yrs ago.

John


Virus-= free. www.avast.com

John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948@cox.net
Va. Beach, Va            &= nbsp;     Phone:  (757) 495-8229

          48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
     75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
            &nb= sp;          65 Rambler Classic

Bricklin:  www.bricklin.org

If you can read this            = ; - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
     e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
     In God We Trust
     Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for 
            &nb= sp;     oneself; freedom  from  control  or  restriction 


--=====================_4683009==.ALT-- --===============0270323132616115664== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============0270323132616115664==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 19 11:25:14 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63E312584FFF for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 11:25:14 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mr11p24im-asmtp003.me.com (mr11p24im-asmtp003.me.com [17.110.78.109]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B24E42587A0A for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 08:49:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.50.64] (unknown [184.105.18.14]) by mr11p24im-asmtp003.me.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7.0.5.36.0 64bit (built Sep 8 2015)) with ESMTPSA id <0O5V00KOCYVRSN20@mr11p24im-asmtp003.me.com> for shop-talk@autox.team.net; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 14:57:30 +0000 (GMT) definitions=2016-04-19_11:,, signatures=0 clxscore=1015 suspectscore=2 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1510270003 definitions=main-1604190253 References: <9C10B44D-CE10-40BE-9D2B-E4410C2186C0@icloud.com> From: Pat Horne Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 09:57:26 -0500 To: Philip Ethier Cc: Shop-Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] falling headliner fix? Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============3503108283310121753== boundary=Apple-Mail-DD08A1D4-50D4-43D8-9FDA-95762AD2EBFB Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit --Apple-Mail-DD08A1D4-50D4-43D8-9FDA-95762AD2EBFB charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If this is too much trouble, try thumb tacks. Make a design with 100 or so! Peace, Pat On Apr 19, 2016, at 7:58 AM, Pat Horne wrote: What is failing is the foam above the fabric. Remove the headliner, scrape o= ff the foam & replace with new fabric. The fabric is cheap, about $75. If th= at is too much trouble, pull the fabric out & scrape off the foam. Race, Pat Pat Horne=20 We support Caldwell County Habitat for Humanity On Apr 19, 2016, at 6:40 AM, Philip Ethier wrote: My MOL has a Saturn with a falling headliner. What's the fix for this? I'd love to hear that there is an adhesive with a little tube ala-WD40 that a= guy could poke through little holes in the liner. What's out there to buy? I will cut bigger holes if I have to. It's not a c= oncours car. --=20 Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue 2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red, the only automatic of the bunch 2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl 2005 Subaru Legacy GT Limited, Regal Blue Pearl http://www.mnautox.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive as@icloud.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive as@icloud.com --Apple-Mail-DD08A1D4-50D4-43D8-9FDA-95762AD2EBFB charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If this is too much trouble, try thumb= tacks. Make a design with 100 or so!

Peace,
<= div>Pat

On Apr 19, 2016, at 7:58 AM, Pat Horne <patintexas@icloud.com> wrote:

What is failing is the foam above the fabric. Remove the headline= r, scrape off the foam & replace with new fabric. The fabric is cheap, a= bout $75. If that is too much trouble, pull the fabric out & scrape off t= he foam.

Race,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Caldwell C= ounty Habitat for Humanity


On Apr 19, 201= 6, at 6:40 AM, Philip Ethier <pethi= er7@gmail.com> wrote:

My MOL has a= Saturn with a falling headliner.  What's the fix for this?

I'd love to hear that there is an adhesive with a little tube ala-WD= 40 that a guy could poke through little holes in the liner.

What's out there to buy?  I will cut bigger holes if I have to= .  It's not a concours car.

--
Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA
= 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue
2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red, t= he only automatic of the bunch
2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl
2005 Subaru Legacy GT Limited, R= egal Blue Pearl
http://www.mnautox.com=
_______________________________________________
<= span>
Shop-talk@= autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested ann= ual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
<= span>Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-ta= lk/patintexas@icloud.com

_______________________________________________
Shop-talk@autox.team.net=
Donate: htt= p://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation &= nbsp;$12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscri= be/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas@= icloud.com

= --Apple-Mail-DD08A1D4-50D4-43D8-9FDA-95762AD2EBFB-- --===============3503108283310121753== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============3503108283310121753==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 19 11:45:16 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CB602584B21 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 11:45:16 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail.milleredp.com (fw.milleredp.com [198.144.208.110]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9FBF2587DBA for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 09:34:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [10.1.2.100] ([::ffff:10.1.2.100]) (AUTH: PLAIN jem, TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,128bits,AES128-SHA) by mail.milleredp.com with ESMTPSA; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 08:42:25 -0700 id 00000000002800C9.00000000571651E1.00005707 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <20160419.080844.9073.0@webmail01.vgs.untd.com> From: John Miller Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 08:42:25 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] falling headliner fix? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > I have battled this several times and have come to the conclusion that > there is no adequate substitute for pulling out the headliner and > recovering. Yeah, either the glue fails or the backing deteriorates with the glue. In either case, you've got little crumbs of stuff rattling around in there. The answer depends on the acceptable level of ghetto. The only way you're going to get it to look 'right', if that matters, is to remove it from the car and redo the whole thing. That means removing all the fabric, cleaning off all the crumbly stuff, you may need new fabric, etc. Neighbor had one done locally (SF Peninsula) for I think $125 a few months back. Bear in mind that body style (wagons/hatchbacks easy, many sedans/coupes will require removing the rear window) and features (how is it finished/retained around the sunroof opening, how many roof-mounted lights/vents/video displays/etc. are there) will drive the R&R difficulty. If what you're looking for is 'keep this thing off my hair until I can scrap the car' I've seen a car where the owner slit the headliner across the car and cleaned out enough cruft to get some glue up there that seemed to hold well enough and I've seen one car where the owner went at it with some heavy fishing line and one of those long curved turkey-sewing needles. Both were functional, neither was an aesthetic success. Nothing you can just push in from the bottom will hold, it'll just pull out of the fiber backing. Maybe one of those big plastic threaded drywall-screw inserts if you cut off the projecting tip and start a hole...but I'd guess trying to put a screw in it will strip it out of the backing in a hurry. John. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 19 12:41:32 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 202F3258790E for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 12:41:32 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from BAY004-OMC2S9.hotmail.com (bay004-omc2s9.hotmail.com [65.54.190.84]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD3A2258476A for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 10:26:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from BAY402-EAS188 ([65.54.190.123]) by BAY004-OMC2S9.hotmail.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.23008); Tue, 19 Apr 2016 09:34:36 -0700 Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 16:34:36 +0000 From: To: References: <6.2.5.6.1.20160419094244.04cc1ca0@cox.net> FILETIME=[5C92B3A0:01D19A59] Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] falling headliner fix? Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============2946464304802315306== boundary="_8999e727-70a8-4190-af27-bcbed17ffea1_" --_8999e727-70a8-4190-af27-bcbed17ffea1_ boundary="----=_Part_18690_206797647.1461083676105" ------=_Part_18690_206797647.1461083676105 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Back when I had a Saab 9000 with the same issue I put upholstery twist pins= (hillman pn 122264) into the cardboard backer material. This will only wor= k if the basket is soft like cardboard. It is not beautiful=2C but it is functional. Jack On Tue=2C Apr 19=2C 2016 at 8:05 AM -0700=2C "John T. Blair" wrote: At 07:40 AM 4/19/2016=2C Philip Ethier wrote: >My MOL has a Saturn with a falling headliner.=C3=82 What's the fix for t= his? Unfortunately=2C I don't think there is a fix in a can. Usually the head liners are a piece of cloth with a foam rubber backing which is glued to a fiberglass sh= ell. Over the years=2C heat and cool cycles=2C and wind beating on it (windows rolled down) the foam rubber drys out and crumbles. You can try getting any spray glue and seeing if that won't hold it up for a while=2C but the real fix is to take it to a shop and have them remove the headliner=2C clean the old cloth off the shell=2C and install new material. I don't have any idea what it costs today. I had a Voyager van done years ago for about $125 dollars. But like I say that was well over 10 yrs ago. John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948@cox.net Va. Beach=2C Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy: e pluribus Unum=2C "from many=2C one." In God We Trust Liberty - the power of choosing=2C thinking=2C and acting for oneself=3B freedom from control or restriction --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ------=_Part_18690_206797647.1461083676105 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Back when I had a Saab 9000 with the same issue I put uphol= stery twist pins (hillman pn 122264) into the cardboard backer material. Th= is will only work if the basket is soft like cardboard.

It is not beautiful=2C =3B but it is functional.

Jack




On Tue=2C Apr 19=2C 2016 at 8:05 AM -0700=2C &qu= ot=3BJohn T. Blair"=3B <=3Bjblair1948@co= x.net>=3B wrote:

At 07:40 AM 4/19/2016=2C Philip Ethier wrote:

>=3BMy MOL has a Saturn with a falling headliner.=C3=82 =3B What's th= e fix for this?

Unfortunately=2C I don't think there is a fix in a can. =3B Usually the= head liners are a
piece of cloth with a foam rubber backing which is glued to a fiberglass sh= ell.

Over the years=2C heat and cool cycles=2C and wind beating on it (windows r= olled down)
the foam rubber drys out and crumbles.

You can try getting any spray glue and seeing if that won't hold it up for = a while=2C
but the real fix is to take it to a shop and have them remove the headliner= =2C clean
the old cloth off the shell=2C and install new material. =3B I don't ha= ve any idea what
it costs today. =3B I had a Voyager van done years ago for about $125 d= ollars. =3B But
like I say that was well over 10 yrs ago.

John


Virus-free. www.avast.com

John T. Blair =3B WA4OHZ =3B =3B =3B =3B email:&nb= sp=3B jblair1948@cox.net
Va. Beach=2C Va =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B = =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B=  =3B Phone: =3B (757) 495-8229

 =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B = =3B 48 TR1800 =3B =3B =3B 48 #4 Midget =3B =3B =3B = 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
 =3B =3B =3B =3B 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) =3B = =3B =3B 77 Spitfire =3B =3B =3B 71 Saab Sonett III
 =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B = =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B=  =3B =3B =3B =3B 65 Rambler Classic

Morgan: =3B =3B =3B www.team.net/www/morgan
Bricklin: =3B www.bricklin.or= g

If you can read this =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B&n= bsp=3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
 =3B =3B =3B =3B e pluribus Unum=2C "=3Bfrom many= =2C one."=3B
 =3B =3B =3B =3B In God We Trust
 =3B =3B =3B =3B Liberty - the =3B power =3B o= f =3B choosing=2C =3B thinking=2C =3B and =3B acting = =3B for =3B
 =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B = =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B oneself= =3B freedom =3B from =3B control =3B or =3B restriction&nbs= p=3B


------=_Part_18690_206797647.1461083676105-- --_8999e727-70a8-4190-af27-bcbed17ffea1_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --_8999e727-70a8-4190-af27-bcbed17ffea1_-- --===============2946464304802315306== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============2946464304802315306==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 19 13:01:13 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB0D72587ED8 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 13:01:13 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-po-12v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-po-12v.sys.comcast.net [96.114.154.171]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 484C42587E06 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 10:30:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-po-19v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.243]) by comcast with SMTP id sYenaQuXwsK9msYfsa7ZLa; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 16:38:52 +0000 s=q20140121; t=1461083932; bh=ALuMG3yBdmUV5tlJHIiRee6C/9Nx2ZvF8oqJhgBP2nw=; h=Received:Received:Subject:To:Reply-To:From:Message-ID:Date: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=Q/5JrtrNPOTzkUaibqHtzjxRqnquVz1uAfVLhO9buqqlmTqIrMhGD2odRSpyw2hVo +UoWHnV+hVVykHmn/eeqktDqoWN6JhH6T+lRVaDfJ5PO0miS05jDsOZMRKTYLSc8Eo C2C/8ZrDmtW9vdjn8lpGzUmhGshOp0pYfc+S1lhGse3zo0BYA1yiZOkOlXIjutZg18 mbJCVzIU61D4yaBVqxdMU3vuf4RuHG5xTAuXBJzcH0aOmqDP+blnS+JWZOSE2xoC4g xBWFT7dS5I9T//5gwDQM7EyJVrVzNj+1NqPvyy+Al2d0H+NfrcEIeaq4C69DHCrKuJ SR6p1OJZm9B/A== Received: from [192.168.0.107] ([50.168.107.76]) by resomta-po-19v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id kGeq1s00o1evlWS01GerBk; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 16:38:52 +0000 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: From: Mark Miller Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 09:38:52 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] L shaped fuel tank problem (Dave Cavanaugh) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I'd recommend getting a weld on threaded fitting instead of hoping a washer would be thick enough. Like: http://www.mcmaster.com/#weld-on-tank-fittings/=121uxnj Regards, Mark Miller markmiller@threeboysfarm.com On 4/18/2016 11:00 AM, shop-talk-request@autox.team.net wrote: > Send Shop-talk mailing list submissions to > shop-talk@autox.team.net > > > > I have an old steel L tank out behind the shop that goes i the back of a pick up and I was considering refurbishing it for diesel containment.Overall it is in decent condition, but I planned to clean out the inside - maybe some acid treatment and a coat of fresh paint on the outside. On the bottom is a half inch hole and it may have been tapped, but the metal is not that thick.Generally I would think a socket head plug would go there to act as a drain, but I am not sure there is enough steel there to form a reliable seal.Any ideas on how to best treat this? I could tap for a plug and try it... I considered welding or JB Welding some large washers to provide enough meat to allow a socket plug to work..Any other appropriate "stoppers" come to mind? I was also considering just sealing up the hole on the bottom and adding a drain on a vertical surface near the bottom. MattColumbus, GA > -------------- next part -------------- > _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 19 14:31:57 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50E322587B3B for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 14:31:57 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail.milleredp.com (fw.milleredp.com [198.144.208.110]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 777722584E86 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 11:46:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [10.1.2.100] ([::ffff:10.1.2.100]) (AUTH: PLAIN jem, TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,128bits,AES128-SHA) by mail.milleredp.com with ESMTPSA; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 10:54:00 -0700 id 000000000028001E.00000000571670B8.000060D5 References: <57167075.8030108@milleredp.com> To: shop-talk@autox.team.net From: John Miller Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 10:53:59 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] falling headliner fix? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On 4/19/2016 7:57 AM, Pat Horne wrote: > If this is too much trouble, try thumb tacks. Make a design with 100 or so! "Daddy, why is it raining thumbtacks! Ouch!" John. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 19 16:28:06 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C12F2258816D for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 16:28:06 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-lf0-f41.google.com (mail-lf0-f41.google.com [209.85.215.41]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEB192586394 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 12:20:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-lf0-f41.google.com with SMTP id g184so26127405lfb.3 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 11:28:41 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc; bh=X/qh/eFKUDwO41ibWjMLRQucT2Jr38LSEYMSnQVEqh8=; b=R3lWgUvhZiuNuChnwKWCcg0pGaNZWEOxSjWdSxVFc2NwlgFGq5lTtmjyZTsx7CtirR 5VnGLisTnVyE/ijs9U0Cwh37HGWDEYOH63y53GcphZo5Vbi1PjITxOtKN68JIUORUoh4 omYZiJSSetfFAzk6oij5ZxVOoFEbfGYRo+0uJBABKoNv7lz956xaT3Lf87X1gq2Tb/3Y eK8aE0YD+TqVJmGAZTTyl7jfk1uwUnucWldRrnJjlfOTCjTS/4XueclFge1GufnezkiS 22JJDUeHr8A5E6H1f3N3QWlswQ8Ne2D80grKeNY8Cf0Q4z8QVVXsm9IBnRk3GSSHpv+C uVwA== d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc; bh=X/qh/eFKUDwO41ibWjMLRQucT2Jr38LSEYMSnQVEqh8=; b=llZq6lnh3ET4Q/Oz3VfxuY4y/cHiKUbD8Lyikk4IKVN/q0h6BkMsUH8eGdGXL/RreG bfSCHKsIiga91nsTwvbCpbeqobUVR2p+fZglVF6Ymo0JgTXWZnsIKEpd++qOgrZgdYhP IGuHpOA1DoUiBNzvbEXdqsCgUD/VIrRuUsaDWKM38sL3RyKaz2UjusW4S3ZJUd0neDxb H+UJJgR9ANoZ7707vtbE9qnJnOUffSdPwPCL3uqR8K6+CU3f8sChT4/6l3CJ8aICZ5wM 3lIcqVAmwFJmtwIPqbyVoY5hOsv6d8x5ODsYNufPuoltajNxgRbdXmzPcsgA6tdDsFHw mw+A== Tue, 19 Apr 2016 11:28:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.115.1.197 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 11:28:29 -0700 (PDT) References: Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 14:28:29 -0400 From: "J.C. Hassall" To: Philip Ethier Cc: Shop-Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] falling headliner fix? Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============4043752602374727844== --001a113fc420ce59260530daa412 Phil, The headliner in my '96 Saturn SL2 gave up the ghost a couple of years ago. T pins worked fine for a year or so, but as the cloth material deteriorated the effectiveness of the pins diminished. After reviewing a couple of YouTube videos I decided that replacing it is very doable for home mechanics. It is. Remove at the bits which screw into the headliner, fold the pax seat down as flat as possible and simply pull it out. It is important to remove *all* the original foam rubber and adhesive. Wire brush and soap and water work well. I used 3M spray adhesive and worked the liner material on in 2' sections (more manageable than doing the whole thing at once). Cut the required openings and install. Installation is very fiddly, as you'll probably have to bend the liner to go in thru pax rear door. If the liner cracks, no big deal, you won't notice with the finished product. The project took me a couple of hours one evening to extricate and clean the liner. I let it dry overnight and glued the new liner material in the AM. I bought foam-backed headliner material from a local craft shop. Don't try to use unbacked material, as the adhesive will soak thru and discolor the finished product. Easily do-able with your skills. jim I bought some headliner material from a local fabric shop (~$25) On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 7:40 AM, Philip Ethier wrote: > My MOL has a Saturn with a falling headliner. What's the fix for this? > > I'd love to hear that there is an adhesive with a little tube ala-WD40 > that a guy could poke through little holes in the liner. > > What's out there to buy? I will cut bigger holes if I have to. It's not > a concours car. > > -- > Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA > 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue > 2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red, the only automatic of the bunch > 2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl > 2005 Subaru Legacy GT Limited, Regal Blue Pearl > http://www.mnautox.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jhassall@gmail.com > > > --001a113fc420ce59260530daa412 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Phil,
The headliner in my '96 Saturn SL2 gave up t= he ghost a couple of years ago.=C2=A0 T pins worked fine for a year or so, = but as the cloth material deteriorated the effectiveness of the pins dimini= shed.=C2=A0 After reviewing a couple of YouTube videos I decided that repla= cing it is very doable for home mechanics.=C2=A0 It is. =C2=A0
Remove at the bits which screw into the headliner, fold the pa= x seat down as flat as possible and simply pull it out.=C2=A0 It is importa= nt to remove *all* the original foam rubber and adhesive.=C2=A0 Wire brush = and soap and water work well.=C2=A0 I used 3M spray adhesive and worked the= liner material on in 2' sections (more manageable than doing the whole= thing at once).=C2=A0 Cut the required openings and install.=C2=A0 Install= ation is very fiddly, as you'll probably have to bend the liner to go i= n thru pax rear door.=C2=A0 If the liner cracks, no big deal, you won't= notice with the finished product. =C2=A0

The proj= ect took me a couple of hours one evening to extricate and clean the liner.= =C2=A0 I let it dry overnight and glued the new liner material in the AM.= =C2=A0 I bought foam-backed headliner material from a local craft shop.=C2= =A0 Don't try to use unbacked material, as the adhesive will soak thru = and discolor the finished product. =C2=A0

Easily d= o-able with your skills.

jim
I bought so= me headliner material from a local fabric shop (~$25)

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 7:4= 0 AM, Philip Ethier <pethier7@gmail.com> wrote:
My MOL has a Saturn with a falling = headliner.=C2=A0 What's the fix for this?

I'd lo= ve to hear that there is an adhesive with a little tube ala-WD40 that a guy= could poke through little holes in the liner.

Wha= t's out there to buy?=C2=A0 I will cut bigger holes if I have to.=C2=A0= It's not a concours car.

--
Phil Ethier West Side Saint P= aul Minnesota USA
1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "= ;uncle jack", Sapphire Blue
2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red, the = only automatic of the bunch
2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl
2005 Subaru Legacy GT Limited, Regal Blue Pearl
http://www.mnautox.com

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
alk/jhassall@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.t= eam.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jhassall@gmail.com



--001a113fc420ce59260530daa412-- --===============4043752602374727844== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============4043752602374727844==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 19 16:46:46 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01E6B2587FFA for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 16:46:46 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-io0-f180.google.com (mail-io0-f180.google.com [209.85.223.180]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7EC82587EB8 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 12:31:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-io0-f180.google.com with SMTP id 2so28339308ioy.1 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 11:40:05 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to; bh=3OPd9ctLN/vJ2H0b1FPKX9FWm5HP+my+ym36JbywO5Y=; b=QRT5088ekJpAWB15EASI70vTEttGx4y3zB2ut9jucUu9Z0yUCEMVRI3vDuRi8HBGDX qv5TvezQ0nX/rVs0et5fVwYK0C3iyu+0WzqB2IhU4K0+DCXjMZ0BB0GQq1sPmVZp6/aN 3oOSqT9JRCNt0P6pA28XBOnrKR2/9BYzsGYlu+TtCtX/DvqsC6iln6VXI9z/x/UA+pXt xmoOJqwVMhP/+nG6mYTBFF7i2jJglagQL67sTeA0mex3+8n2ayjEWaeeEErP3hIUKN2F mcYuDmIdu5SaWfWJfpVl+NuJrjazWUckchTOc8+u9cxetoypb6NMAs7GJZoQ7Y/iSxXj /9tA== d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to; bh=3OPd9ctLN/vJ2H0b1FPKX9FWm5HP+my+ym36JbywO5Y=; b=Tzno3nyLaue9xfAMYXUpgj4dh4QH92dLZuQ+7UwyIjWN+1bst8lWD/VeEBNWVn0i3o 4rfXlo8MYxpqKXw2Xx7rhfDgAtH9w6Q9QlYjMlrvkkmhviNthZV2b+4OzKwn7S11SafT L35krm4+qVJCNA4PvKIr877Jby703v+gdPeZdcvyyacVEqlnCy38QvFQRhFGmxcRhbhW hPxE2q02JDKFcGol14RZGmdfH1j0di+dZgaLwVqVYIEnO1FxGn3G/w5fpbKpwOFf6BFq Pb2TdlfQUG6IBQaKvB5R0Nw8gMqGrkhVkvqUhNL0BhCZ2Mpy0r4luHxnt/bI9Y5JpQ2E sELw== Tue, 19 Apr 2016 11:39:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.209.68 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 11:39:54 -0700 (PDT) References: <20160419.080844.9073.0@webmail01.vgs.untd.com> <571651E1.6050002@milleredp.com> Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 14:39:54 -0400 From: Jeff Scarbrough To: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] falling headliner fix? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 11:42 AM, John Miller wrote: > maybe one of those big plastic threaded drywall-screw inserts if you cut off > the projecting tip and start a hole... I had visions of the roof of the car looking like a porcupine...then I saw the word "insert"... -- Jeff _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 19 17:05:27 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4E892586244 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 17:05:26 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cdptpa-oedge-vip.email.rr.com (cdptpa-outbound-snat.email.rr.com [107.14.166.229]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49B9C25879C2 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 12:49:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.248.153.253] ([172.248.153.253:2009] helo=rypc) by cdptpa-oedge01 (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.5.0.35861 r(Momo-dev:tip)) with ESMTP id 19/E4-07258-0AF76175; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 18:57:37 +0000 From: "Randall" To: Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 11:57:36 -0700 Thread-Index: AdGaZVNHanbo5O0wQwyr4MoWhRGa5AAB4IcQ Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] falling headliner fix? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > If what you're looking for is 'keep this thing off my hair > until I can > scrap the car' I've seen a car where the owner slit the > headliner across > the car and cleaned out enough cruft to get some glue up there that > seemed to hold well enough and I've seen one car where the > owner went at > it with some heavy fishing line and one of those long curved > turkey-sewing needles. Both were functional, neither was an > aesthetic success. Or in the same category, just pull out all the fabric and crumbled foam; and leave the bare shell behind. It's not like folks spend a lot of time looking up at the headliner. After all, it's transportation, not a work of art. Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 19 17:23:59 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F78125878BB for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 17:23:59 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail.milleredp.com (fw.milleredp.com [198.144.208.110]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A82152587EE5 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 13:17:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [10.1.2.100] ([::ffff:10.1.2.100]) (AUTH: PLAIN jem, TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,128bits,AES128-SHA) by mail.milleredp.com with ESMTPSA; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 12:25:25 -0700 id 00000000002800CB.0000000057168625.00006862 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <6.2.5.6.1.20160419094244.04cc1ca0@cox.net> From: John Miller Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 12:25:23 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] falling headliner fix? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On 4/19/2016 9:34 AM, jibrooks@live.com wrote: > Back when I had a Saab 9000 with the same issue I put upholstery twist > pins (hillman pn 122264) into the cardboard backer material. This will > only work if the basket is soft like cardboard. Back when I had a '92 Saab 9000 Turbo with the same issue (as well as dashpad cracks around the sun sensor) I stumbled onto a later CSE in the junkyard on half-price day with a perfect headliner and a perfect dashpad. The headliner and upper dash pad went home with me that day. As did the entire moonroof pan assembly, once I realized it bolted in place and wasn't welded in like BMWs etc. Saab had started decontenting the US-market cars in the early '90s as the dollar started crushing European currencies (Saab 9000T $37K, Audi 200TQ Avant $48K, BMW M5 $56K) and so by '92 the 9000s were getting steel sunroofs, but they put back the glass in the higher-spec models later. So a weekend later I had a '92 9000 Turbo with a fresh dash, a fresh headliner, and a glass moonroof. Moral to the story: if you're a passable wrench, and you have self-service junkyards nearby, and you can't find someone to do a recover locally at a decent price, depending on the age of the vehicle replacement may be an option too. John. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 19 18:29:55 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84E02258533E for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 18:29:55 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ig0-f182.google.com (mail-ig0-f182.google.com [209.85.213.182]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E002D2587962 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 14:36:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-ig0-f182.google.com with SMTP id m9so20062839ige.1 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 13:44:10 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=CG6/A3AqzkxSu+QYP6DA5YjiWjifsz2UvtrOMCliJuk=; b=1J6SuDcNCuz9JYC/zRLVgnO6wUE/H3z8lyAc9h/QedK8hSS0oD+T5UW9dvYpuaRKsJ gYizZdxxxfpYHJugnsHlzW+lUw+a+dpsXweDZOjoPPSwfF8rVQNtx7Q+Ppcpx6CwDDOq 3xC+9tVzhMgTFEAtVEBFBpdNOcWYEWpck7sYbz+dWbGv2dz+cmhW3b2WClffombKgpJW C99f/kfnojd6oXUUxRaFhFITJXdGi9fnQvWc6tQeMnekk8moIBpToqf1NFtY1dNwSV3b blhFvcm/+0+D3Ppw4CpSc84qfy8lQQIaSHqby072TKDJPcM2iy4XHvs9P/wvQ8L2C81f kc/Q== d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=CG6/A3AqzkxSu+QYP6DA5YjiWjifsz2UvtrOMCliJuk=; b=C0XBd6xp0rjynC91zcuH7IkPoo6zCAoE8vLfPu9JmiSw9SP+xeOqovS/wYTeMBch4o /e4EfGk3tXG/+dn1buUmEZYWohJhFvZkiUoafGEEFwzrN39eLT2wbIFHY/i1K/kNez4I qIQuG/xr6c74TYJ2qhB/1BT/0IxfuHsn6NehnfHBWB2v518FuGnnAa6DZkokQvQi9RTz 1ikqnPlPO6h9gGAR142Q9BvWChiM29CxnQprJL66x/nGQM/jLHq/OaOgQwTJxiPycy9n FrXZbW/fB55qqUBn4YczY7PUNpWntK7N3rwCyrVzrmLnTmdnsELB9xjdYd2sVPWrszF9 M+Aw== Tue, 19 Apr 2016 13:44:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.52.218.75] ([166.175.57.80]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id fm1sm2902876igb.1.2016.04.19.13.44.04 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 19 Apr 2016 13:44:04 -0700 (PDT) From: David Scheidt Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 15:44:03 -0500 References: <20160419.080844.9073.0@webmail01.vgs.untd.com> To: Matt Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] falling headliner fix? Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============4167376893564798146== boundary=Apple-Mail-DC459806-07EE-4715-80CF-CCDC23B5C6A9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --Apple-Mail-DC459806-07EE-4715-80CF-CCDC23B5C6A9 charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Your flaps should sell a "Help!" Brand headliner tack. It's basically a thum= btack with a very large head. Ugly but they work and are cheap.=20 > On Apr 19, 2016, at 07:08, Matt wrote: >=20 > Phil, > I will be happy but surprised if anyone reveals a quick and cheap fix. > I have battled this several times and have come to the conclusion that the= re is no adequate substitute for pulling out the headliner and recovering. > When the foam backing on the original material fails, it gets dusty and si= mply defies any attempt to re glue. > =20 > Shop around, I eventually found a shop (albiet a few years ago) that did a= great job for $75. > Depending on the car, the shell may not be that hard to remove yourself an= d you could either buy the fabric and recover yourself or take it to the int= erior shop and have them do it and you could reinstall. > =20 > Good Luck! > =20 > =20 > =20 >=20 >=20 > ---------- Original Message ---------- > From: Philip Ethier > To: Shop-Talk > Subject: [Shop-talk] falling headliner fix? > Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 06:40:50 -0500 >=20 > My MOL has a Saturn with a falling headliner. What's the fix for this? > =20 > I'd love to hear that there is an adhesive with a little tube ala-WD40 tha= t a guy could poke through little holes in the liner. > =20 > What's out there to buy? I will cut bigger holes if I have to. It's not a= concours car. > =20 > --=20 > Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA > 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue > 2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red, the only automatic of the bunch > 2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl > 2005 Subaru Legacy GT Limited, Regal Blue Pearl > http://www.mnautox.com > _______________________________________________ >=20 > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dmsche= idt@gmail.com >=20 --Apple-Mail-DC459806-07EE-4715-80CF-CCDC23B5C6A9 charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Your flaps should sell a "H= elp!" Brand headliner tack. It's basically a thumbtack with a very large hea= d.  Ugly but they work and are cheap. 

On Apr 19, 20= 16, at 07:08, Matt <mbarre@juno.com> wrote:

I will be happy but surprised if anyone reveals a quick and cheap fix.<= /div>
I have battled this several times and have come to the conclusion that t= here is no adequate substitute for pulling out the headliner and recovering.=
When the foam backing on the original material fails, it gets dusty and= simply defies any attempt to re glue.
 
Shop around, I eventually found a shop (albiet a few years ago) that di= d a great job for $75.
Depending on the car, the shell may not be that hard to remove yourself= and you could either buy the fabric and recover yourself or take it to the i= nterior shop and have them do it and you could reinstall.
 
Good Luck!
 
 
 


---------- Original Message ----------
From: Philip Ethier &= lt;pethier7@gmail.com>
To: S= hop-Talk <shop-talk@autox.tea= m.net>
Subject: [Shop-talk] falling headliner fix?
Date: Tue, 1= 9 Apr 2016 06:40:50 -0500

My MOL has a Saturn with a falling headliner.  What's t= he fix for this?
 
I'd love to hear that there is an adhesive with a little tube ala-WD40 t= hat a guy could poke through little holes in the liner.
 
What's out there to buy?  I will cut bigger holes if I have to.&nb= sp; It's not a concours car.
 
--
Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA<= /div>
1973 Triu= mph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue
2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red, the only automatic of t= he bunch
<= span style=3D"color: #000000; font-family: verdana,geneva,lucida,'lucida gra= nde',arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: #efefef;">2005 Lotus Elis= e, Bordeaux Red Pearl
20= 05 Subaru Legacy GT Limited, Regal Blue Pearl
http:/= /www.mnautox.com
______________= _________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/d= onate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96=
Archive: http://www.team.n= et/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage: htt= p://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dmscheidt@gmail.com<= br>
= --Apple-Mail-DC459806-07EE-4715-80CF-CCDC23B5C6A9-- --===============4167376893564798146== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============4167376893564798146==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 19 21:29:06 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C55AC2586358 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 21:29:06 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm2-vm1.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (nm2-vm1.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [98.138.91.33]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0516325879B0 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 18:46:30 -0600 (MDT) t=1461113674; bh=/K/njPRy62Ylz5MjBmrLcUcro7YJ7KTaNy6Ryl46ltA=; h=To:From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References:From:Subject; b=tdBFV6D6kzFbBwAX2vIUUIwhhcf6NGmOJU+wRDe3kJtVHrZZGq0qvj5shpCoQ9mSixvHBQhKoblj9xhjNhbONUpNgyeZgClWrDZC6qICB7Hgv9JF2wsxtM1sOd2/aRKOdFNu+j6didg99KgLbuCQ0/3L/df8CLEkEBov1wz6yDJBv4pAT7gC1Y82xTJULVu72XHGuaBKgQTerIIhoH/nl8kdidEZ+twePMF1al5WoukHoeJrgReb27t9LRKFBLxWHZbKdJVpbTK/vJhgdYTmjFG7hwT0I32wiWW2BktMNmyeEses9satZBPeHr8GGnXdgtzhixjYlp3pWONxAxVlsA== Received: from [98.138.101.128] by nm2.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Apr 2016 00:54:34 -0000 Received: from [98.138.226.62] by tm16.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Apr 2016 00:54:34 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp213.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Apr 2016 00:54:34 -0000 uoegy14ysci4tKsTHIHIGHpHHJQ.ESNvJXzsJH8wLbaFpu0JQJsVbV2LSmQK 0qynD8s94u1cUosKAgKLegJrcQBsZFrLCrBOuHtLZ_dsgxrGJpBRr2cWNsEe SAReB50uYnNbaiisU53nrIjkP3aUfJKRQgyABvRJklcp5uD1Df.niK7myAVy jcuDpnvsynxRKtcYazPkXvfwsz1Obnd8Ot3bFkOU0kKOLcQI0CFqRQTFNlTC brDXi5DeNhqvbi1XGckimZlw2nB.VT6B1.cjoj6Rnj0DZ4pE1OELs_SQnOU8 muXKvqxgy.n8.nPvmt2._SBDiOdYZ0pj9e7v83H8HhMkNuc1u8YBXP8sXBy_ V4tzy7TRJXWegrvT03J.IFA31p7H5zh.hqD4QNFokujmae8AxtooVHPHsC0u LiSYabFGtNQ71ti3yT2GvMbMCIVg._mXoRIaOtIsEAUKIEcDuKUN3kXrm69n R2T7RpKN3.21nUCNbIv57mCbyNFGF17Bci2IgZXCXxoojVWM.jWM- To: , From: Dirtbeard Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 17:54:19 -0700 References: <57165F1C.7050204@threeboysfarm.com> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] L shaped fuel tank problem (Dave Cavanaugh) Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============5845633154543495386== boundary="_F2F017F9-29C6-4DC8-A39F-86B5491E9654_" --_F2F017F9-29C6-4DC8-A39F-86B5491E9654_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Don't you just love McMaster-Carr? It is my ultimate go to supplier. They = have incredible inventory of top-quality supplies and ship same day. What = more could one ask? best, des (mobile) -----Original Message----- From: "Mark Miller" Sent: =E2=80=8E4/=E2=80=8E19/=E2=80=8E2016 12:06 PM To: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] L shaped fuel tank problem (Dave Cavanaugh) I'd recommend getting a weld on threaded fitting instead of hoping a=20 washer would be thick enough. Like:=20 http://www.mcmaster.com/#weld-on-tank-fittings/=3D121uxnj Regards, Mark Miller markmiller@threeboysfarm.com On 4/18/2016 11:00 AM, shop-talk-request@autox.team.net wrote: > Send Shop-talk mailing list submissions to > shop-talk@autox.team.net > > > > I have an old steel L tank out behind the shop that goes i the back of= a pick up and I was considering refurbishing it for diesel containment.Ove= rall it is in decent condition, but I planned to clean out the inside - may= be some acid treatment and a coat of fresh paint on the outside. On the bot= tom is a half inch hole and it may have been tapped, but the metal is not t= hat thick.Generally I would think a socket head plug would go there to act = as a drain, but I am not sure there is enough steel there to form a reliabl= e seal.Any ideas on how to best treat this? I could tap for a plug and try= it... I considered welding or JB Welding some large washers to provide eno= ugh meat to allow a socket plug to work..Any other appropriate "stoppers" c= ome to mind? I was also considering just sealing up the hole on the bottom = and adding a drain on a vertical surface near the bottom. MattColumbus, GA > -------------- next part -------------- > _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive rd@pacbell.net --_F2F017F9-29C6-4DC8-A39F-86B5491E9654_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Don't you just love McMaster-Carr? It is my ultimate go t= o supplier.  They have incredible inventory of top-quality supplies an= d ship same day.  What more could one ask?

best,

des (mo= bile)
From: Mark Miller
Sent: <= span style=3D"font-family: Calibri,sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">=E2=80=8E4= /=E2=80=8E19/=E2=80=8E2016 12:06 PM
To: shop-talk@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] L shaped fuel tank problem (Dave Cavanaugh)<= br>

I'd recommend getting a weld on threaded fitting instead o= f hoping a
washer would be thick enough.  Like:
http://www.mcm= aster.com/#weld-on-tank-fittings/=3D121uxnj


Regards,

Mark= Miller
markmiller@threeboysfarm.com


On 4/18/2016 11:00 AM, s= hop-talk-request@autox.team.net wrote:
> Send Shop-talk mailing list = submissions to
> shop-talk@autox.team.net
>
>
>>    I have an old steel L tank out behind the shop that= goes i the back of a pick up and I was considering refurbishing it for die= sel containment.Overall it is in decent condition, but I planned to clean o= ut the inside - maybe some acid treatment and a coat of fresh paint on the = outside. On the bottom is a half inch hole and it may have been tapped, but= the metal is not that thick.Generally I would think a socket head plug wou= ld go there to act as a drain, but I am not sure there is enough steel ther= e to form a reliable seal.Any ideas on how to best treat this?  I coul= d tap for a plug and try it... I considered welding or JB Welding some larg= e washers to provide enough meat to allow a socket plug to work..Any other = appropriate "stoppers" come to mind? I was also considering just sealing up= the hole on the bottom and adding a drain on a vertical surface near the b= ottom.  MattColumbus, GA
> -------------- next part ------------= --
>

_______________________________________________

Sh= op-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Sugges= ted annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/archiveForums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.tea= m.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard@pacbell.net

= --_F2F017F9-29C6-4DC8-A39F-86B5491E9654_-- --===============5845633154543495386== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============5845633154543495386==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 19 22:33:37 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58AD02584CA6 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 22:33:37 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm7-vm10.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm7-vm10.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [216.109.114.169]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1FFF2587EB4 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 19:11:01 -0600 (MDT) t=1461115139; bh=9m8aPkvookaCLEX28cqCm1L9Ey3b4NLhifIU8SI6bpw=; h=Reply-To:Subject:References:To:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=GWO1mb4Cu5+C48WF4SJQO0pgHCE6/qcEpY7qXWfQR9Jj6/AuyfMaeCYj40UnMBI0d3yZk0wqGK9b+jQc64brgGTND759rCp3fnKXagoHdGMfdDixTCwZlLuRFhAE2bz0N0T82Q9nmQD+jOvHuqKOroaloVMyg1uIVhx6He7tFQA= Received: from [66.196.81.160] by nm7.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Apr 2016 01:18:59 -0000 Received: from [98.138.104.98] by tm6.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Apr 2016 01:18:59 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp118.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Apr 2016 01:18:59 -0000 .ycKZCP.fnHzcOLWUPs92vFIzk7iNQkbBWdMUCskcybNqynIzD5YEgTuXGQP Q49xcIyyCUJNPrb2HkcGAAGoFeaFhTOgj9ZVw9mw5hBGV7woVOaS2y6rO_vy 4j7i5leorCf66rWJCrvOO.MmeK.O7eVZfTkY_jWGZlWCy_9OC.qemw9PBQ4p 7JWG3O6HcQq_4opArbiN_3lUkFzLzGGCu73uaem5CRELuSN8TausOlVLDnpI GMnPg84CUTFteqHROw0YjeG0b7lImn7Q7egxxn.6GOlG.S4WXt7Z6IHUfYDT euDcBS59hcipNI9PXcYnm6ro7WWPEPl7PfTsqZxEMh5w.wj.1tq1iyVUPlPn ji5V.1v8WH2stcDgqpXPkQB0dr0BZm1LghsEuhBHsYjJVveLBBqPDLKnWLJd J.DMfYE6Ofldk0NwOz5NzR14.i.zRwhxe7QWiOuIYh096ipCipZhO6K3swBQ l.Gm41_xilyunauBnbg-- References: <6.2.5.6.1.20160419094244.04cc1ca0@cox.net> To: shop-talk@autox.team.net From: steve hochschild Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 20:19:04 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] falling headliner fix? Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============8877758669137466728== boundary="------------030304080405040000060305" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030304080405040000060305 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit What Jack said; Upholstery twist pins are available at any of the fabric/sewing stores, and in my case, they worked fine for a couple of years. Definitely the first thing to try. On 4/19/2016 11:34 AM, jibrooks@live.com wrote: > > Back when I had a Saab 9000 with the same issue I put upholstery twist > pins (hillman pn 122264) into the cardboard backer material. This will > only work if the basket is soft like cardboard. > > It is not beautiful, but it is functional. > > Jack > > > > > On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 8:05 AM -0700, "John T. Blair" > > At 07:40 AM 4/19/2016, Philip Ethier wrote: > > >My MOL has a Saturn with a falling headliner. What's the fix for this? > > Unfortunately, I don't think there is a fix in a can. Usually the > head liners are a > piece of cloth with a foam rubber backing which is glued to a > fiberglass shell. > > Over the years, heat and cool cycles, and wind beating on it (windows > rolled down) > the foam rubber drys out and crumbles. > > You can try getting any spray glue and seeing if that won't hold it up > for a while, > but the real fix is to take it to a shop and have them remove the > headliner, clean > the old cloth off the shell, and install new material. I don't have > any idea what > it costs today. I had a Voyager van done years ago for about $125 > dollars. But > like I say that was well over 10 yrs ago. > > John > > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > > > > > John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948@cox.net > Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 > > 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) > 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III > 65 Rambler Classic > > Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan > Bricklin: www.bricklin.org > > If you can read this - Thank a teacher! > If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! > > From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy: > e pluribus Unum, "from many, one." > In God We Trust > Liberty - the power of choosing, thinking, and acting for > oneself; freedom from control or restriction > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/steve@hochschild.org > --------------030304080405040000060305 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit What Jack said; Upholstery twist pins are available at any of the fabric/sewing stores, and in my case, they worked fine for a couple of years.  Definitely the first thing to try.



On 4/19/2016 11:34 AM, jibrooks@live.com wrote:

Back when I had a Saab 9000 with the same issue I put upholstery twist pins (hillman pn 122264) into the cardboard backer material. This will only work if the basket is soft like cardboard.

It is not beautiful,  but it is functional.

Jack




On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 8:05 AM -0700, "John T. Blair" <jblair1948@cox.net> wrote:

At 07:40 AM 4/19/2016, Philip Ethier wrote:

>My MOL has a Saturn with a falling headliner.  What's the fix for this?

Unfortunately, I don't think there is a fix in a can.  Usually the head liners are a
piece of cloth with a foam rubber backing which is glued to a fiberglass shell.

Over the years, heat and cool cycles, and wind beating on it (windows rolled down)
the foam rubber drys out and crumbles.

You can try getting any spray glue and seeing if that won't hold it up for a while,
but the real fix is to take it to a shop and have them remove the headliner, clean
the old cloth off the shell, and install new material.  I don't have any idea what
it costs today.  I had a Voyager van done years ago for about $125 dollars.  But
like I say that was well over 10 yrs ago.

John


Virus-free. www.avast.com

John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948@cox.net
Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229

          48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
     75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                       65 Rambler Classic

Bricklin:  www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
     e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
     In God We Trust
     Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for 
                  oneself; freedom  from  control  or  restriction  




_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums

--------------030304080405040000060305-- --===============8877758669137466728== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============8877758669137466728==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 19 23:06:52 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 509FF258792D for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 23:06:52 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail.milleredp.com (fw.milleredp.com [198.144.208.110]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18AE425880AA for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 19:54:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [10.1.2.100] ([::ffff:10.1.2.100]) (AUTH: PLAIN jem, TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,128bits,AES128-SHA) by mail.milleredp.com with ESMTPSA; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 19:02:48 -0700 id 000000000028001F.000000005716E348.00000598 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <6.2.5.6.1.20160419094244.04cc1ca0@cox.net> <57168623.80002@milleredp.com> From: John Miller Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 19:02:48 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] falling headliner fix? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > Moral to the story: if you're a passable wrench, and you have > self-service junkyards nearby, and you can't find someone to do a > recover locally at a decent price, depending on the age of the vehicle > replacement may be an option too. Further consideration: had I been more than a passable wrench at the time I'd probably still have the car. It was an automatic, and the ZF 4HP18 slushbox was shaky and unpleasant (by my standards) and rumored to be unreliable. Ours never blew up, and I donated the car at just short of 200K, but it's one of probably three cars I've ever disposed of (the other being a 99EMS) that - in the sense that I then regarded a manual-transmission swap as beyond the pale, but would not fear it now - I regret parting with. John. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 25 01:20:37 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 984A92584B59 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 01:20:37 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from dogbert2.mail.megageek.com (nj-69-34-94-16.sta.embarqhsd.net [69.34.94.16]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 375D925803A4 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2016 21:38:11 -0600 (MDT) To: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net From: eric@megageek.com Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 18:51:20 -0400 04/24/2016 23:06:47, Serialize complete at 04/24/2016 23:06:47 Subject: [Shop-talk] Source of special plexiglass Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============3265422544555009146== This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 00806CFD85257F9F_= I have a soda machine that I'm about to put back in service after restoring it. It will be out in the general public. The last piece I need is a small (about 1" high by 5" wide) piece of plexiglass that is 'vandal proof' (or whatever term they use.) This will cover the LED readout, so it needs to be semi-clear. If you look at any modern vending machine, they all have them. Most a tinted 'blueish' Then I need to glue it to the plastic frame (this is how the original one was done. Two questions... Where can plexiglass, and what type of glue (and source) do I use? TIA Sent from my Commodore 64 on a 2400 Baud Modem. Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson --=_alternative 00806CFD85257F9F_=
I have a soda machine that I'm about to put back in service after restoring it.  It will be out in the general public.

The last piece I need is a small (about 1" high by 5" wide) piece of plexiglass that is 'vandal proof' (or whatever term they use.)

This will cover the LED readout, so it needs to be semi-clear.  If you look at any modern vending machine, they all have them.  Most a tinted 'blueish'

Then I need to glue it to the plastic frame (this is how the original one was done.

Two questions...

Where can plexiglass, and what type of glue (and source) do I use?

TIA

Sent from my Commodore 64 on a 2400 Baud Modem.
Eric P
"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson --=_alternative 00806CFD85257F9F_=-- --===============3265422544555009146== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============3265422544555009146==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 25 09:32:40 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BFC52585159 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 09:32:40 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cdptpa-oedge-vip.email.rr.com (cdptpa-outbound-snat.email.rr.com [107.14.166.226]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E6A32584B98 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 01:57:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.248.153.253] ([172.248.153.253:4876] helo=rypc) by cdptpa-oedge02 (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.5.0.35861 r(Momo-dev:tip)) with ESMTP id E8/3E-19654-3FDCD175; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 07:57:39 +0000 From: "Randall" To: Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 00:57:38 -0700 Thread-Index: AdGew6CP/srvbkcXTryDdTcLIPbs3gAAxs7A Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Source of special plexiglass Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net My _guess_ is that it's polycarbonate (aka Lexan) rather than Plexiglas (aka acrylic). They are similar, but Plexiglas is more brittle and easier to break. Bare Lexan scratches easier, but they offer it with various hard coatings, eg http://www.mcmaster.com/?m=true#8707k129/=124rb2p Haven't tried it myself, but I've heard that this stuff works well to glue many plastics: http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/13/7/epxy_plstc_s/overview/Loctite-Epoxy-Plastic-Bonder.htm -- Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 25 12:08:54 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4E18258530A for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 12:08:54 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ig0-f182.google.com (mail-ig0-f182.google.com [209.85.213.182]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DB4F2584E97 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 06:00:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-ig0-f182.google.com with SMTP id g8so71607409igr.0 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 05:00:51 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc; bh=RZ1MLAtKmhe7pjLamX/wg1lJzKvFvolFGPa4cqCgLc0=; b=JXf/N4ch2ZaeS9L+SbPUe9klNajoOd2UFtQbqRbnQLtYXRqniE+t6fJDGjSI8eZ93n R0gJLyZO+xIJGJtZoS3KC6LPhuvoLmERxptN7WgV78Cmfm54B9AJtPfIB8xU2EOVXXEW g3X34LR88UKU4veeH1shquUDV1cWCoyxCJ0WOPYGR7ht/mCt570oYk4KEQmnsKOym5PD i5H5fAHe4cXbKBUEE9vDUzXSDDvJ8y+MvmlNAB19EInBfZh6XnEX0C0rUhYZpGvtqZYf d2G4VMqdvpCDV2bsedPXDFZ22HUpMqd1Ko904wtT0mFvWj/kNENHMmhV+y2+1iXdHSwn aZZw== d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc; bh=RZ1MLAtKmhe7pjLamX/wg1lJzKvFvolFGPa4cqCgLc0=; b=Jj4RF3e0N1EdQEUP5cLtbgA6/NcY1GAeRd6EOSrbS/bLzQeY5QFiODE3oZHZ0UK3XH ySfUcUFOvpkWKOOJc6VLPAXRimyx4Uoa+jON2Exl1ahQW+hybm/rk9n2rOPJmQojCxzF NDHn8krqCLXhkwRhhyNQwTLDl2zG0233CWQu0t/23DPc4Ki931dYT6/+uJl0GmdLi+6I vrY7U4lxNH+KfADF8dlmGzlNF1Sr3b6KTVDzVAFhb2syFEXPCx4/6xHlKoegjg6al3AT U7uQhgiYct/UV/tHEFfDnIhlrmyEYAXUvFkaStmE0fYTLAc4o5TRPYwAuocSPIDbstL+ fOyQ== Mon, 25 Apr 2016 05:00:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.209.68 with HTTP; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 05:00:45 -0700 (PDT) References: Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 08:00:45 -0400 From: Jeff Scarbrough To: eric@megageek.com Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Source of special plexiglass Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I've used Interstate Plastics in the past for various things. Looks like this might work, although my connection is too slow this morning to get a price: https://www.interstateplastics.com/Acrylic-Cear-Bullet-Resistant-Sar-level-1-Sheet-ACRE1CPSHdead.php Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 6:51 PM, wrote: > > I have a soda machine that I'm about to put back in service after restoring > it. It will be out in the general public. > > The last piece I need is a small (about 1" high by 5" wide) piece of > plexiglass that is 'vandal proof' (or whatever term they use.) > > This will cover the LED readout, so it needs to be semi-clear. If you look > at any modern vending machine, they all have them. Most a tinted 'blueish' > > Then I need to glue it to the plastic frame (this is how the original one > was done. > > Two questions... > > Where can plexiglass, and what type of glue (and source) do I use? > > TIA > > Sent from my Commodore 64 on a 2400 Baud Modem. > Eric P > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo > Emerson > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 25 12:50:50 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A4B825853C3 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 12:50:50 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mr11p24im-asmtp003.me.com (mr11p24im-asmtp003.me.com [17.110.78.109]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 953E12584F4A for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 06:57:52 -0600 (MDT) mr11p24im-asmtp003.me.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7.0.5.36.0 64bit (built Sep 8 2015)) id <0O6600B00X8AL000@mr11p24im-asmtp003.me.com> for shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 12:57:41 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [192.168.50.64] (unknown [184.105.18.14]) by mr11p24im-asmtp003.me.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7.0.5.36.0 64bit (built Sep 8 2015)) with ESMTPSA id <0O66000H0XBZFV40@mr11p24im-asmtp003.me.com>; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 12:57:41 +0000 (GMT) definitions=2016-04-25_08:,, signatures=0 clxscore=1015 suspectscore=4 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1510270003 definitions=main-1604250209 References: From: Pat Horne Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 07:57:34 -0500 To: eric@megageek.com t=1461589061; bh=+s85Xk47UcGu4PLbsQKlugNXQzWoeuwqd12jq0hP3bQ=; h=MIME-version:Content-type:Message-id:From:Subject:Date:To; b=qqIdFz2NKIpVuZj+sPhH8KU7QZJlt4JWa5qp/RUh8FBTGpkOMOkJ5qOI029G63RKL Ovfojts2riELnE7DcoOWHCuq1wjYcVvfQb+gaxCdPbUiBvQ3s4ub1cbGQGG1dKs/v3 3RamEkJNLSrrLpe5pDvjjcjAdYJsn2rxI6059LxcYDuLuXr334NjL2CchJT0zPTmsN et9aAoZgamoYNhq2A5JkMemm72ATDhvdw3vcup3Du9gJr0vBxsmU7bK5lZwmTW8Ss+ 9loJXq1XMfKH7fNmbZSX4SUde++DqIAiKXjF7zytm0jobePylSctdU1CrEZRZ411Nz PLBQg5hp2FFlw== Cc: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Source of special plexiglass Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============1646253939429071014== boundary=Apple-Mail-087312BA-52B0-4378-86F2-3622B99AB6DE Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit --Apple-Mail-087312BA-52B0-4378-86F2-3622B99AB6DE charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Check into polycarbonate. It's tough stuff. McMaster-Carr has it. Don't kno= w how thick you need.=20 Peace, Pat Pat Horne=20 We support Caldwell County Habitat for Humanity On Apr 24, 2016, at 5:51 PM, eric@megageek.com wrote: I have a soda machine that I'm about to put back in service after restoring i= t. It will be out in the general public.=20 The last piece I need is a small (about 1" high by 5" wide) piece of plexigl= ass that is 'vandal proof' (or whatever term they use.)=20 This will cover the LED readout, so it needs to be semi-clear. If you look a= t any modern vending machine, they all have them. Most a tinted 'blueish'=20= Then I need to glue it to the plastic frame (this is how the original one wa= s done.=20 Two questions...=20 Where can plexiglass, and what type of glue (and source) do I use?=20 TIA=20 Sent from my Commodore 64 on a 2400 Baud Modem. Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational be= ing are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo E= merson _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive as@icloud.com --Apple-Mail-087312BA-52B0-4378-86F2-3622B99AB6DE charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
 Check into polycarbonate. It's tough stuff. McMaster-Carr has it. Don't know how thick you need. 

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Caldwell County Habitat for Humanity


On Apr 24, 2016, at 5:51 PM, eric@megageek.com wrote:


I have a soda machine that I'm about to put back in service after restoring it.  It will be out in the general public.

The last piece I need is a small (about 1" high by 5" wide) piece of plexiglass that is 'vandal proof' (or whatever term they use.)

This will cover the LED readout, so it needs to be semi-clear.  If you look at any modern vending machine, they all have them.  Most a tinted 'blueish'

Then I need to glue it to the plastic frame (this is how the original one was done.

Two questions...

Where can plexiglass, and what type of glue (and source) do I use?

TIA

Sent from my Commodore 64 on a 2400 Baud Modem.
Eric P
"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas@icloud.com

--Apple-Mail-087312BA-52B0-4378-86F2-3622B99AB6DE-- --===============1646253939429071014== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============1646253939429071014==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 26 01:21:27 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C00DB2584C4A for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2016 01:21:27 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from smtp.centurylink.net (mail.centurylink.net [205.219.233.9]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1622925853A0 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 12:45:22 -0600 (MDT) X_CMAE_Category: , , a=I0wsP0/ub+0M/VQyKFHlEA==:117 a=I0wsP0/ub+0M/VQyKFHlEA==:17 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=NNH54L3rAAAA:8 a=SZPNyBC7f58cnltIESoA:9 a=wTirTELQzlEA:10 a=xiyZHej3W-SUSwH_AlYA:9 a=lWoBmmjJLtUm_syG:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 Authentication-Results: smtp02.agate.dfw.synacor.com smtp.user=ejrussell@mebtel.net; auth=pass (LOGIN) Received: from [99.194.29.42] ([99.194.29.42:37405] helo=EricJRussellPC) by smtp.centurylink.net (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.5.1.37854 r(Momo-dev:3.5.1.0)) with ESMTPA id 93/09-03290-CB56E175; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 14:45:17 -0400 From: "Eric J Russell" To: "shop-talk" , References: Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 14:45:06 -0400 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Source of special plexiglass Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============8661020481168777176== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00F1_01D19F01.0EB45CE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00F1_01D19F01.0EB45CE0 charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've bought material from Online Metals. They also sell various types of = plastics.=20 = http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?id=3D270&step=3D2&top_cat=3D181 = Eric Russell Mebane, NC ------=_NextPart_000_00F1_01D19F01.0EB45CE0 charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I've bought material from Online = Metals. They also=20 sell various types of plastics. 
 http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?id=3D270&st= ep=3D2&top_cat=3D181 
 
Eric Russell
Mebane,=20 NC
------=_NextPart_000_00F1_01D19F01.0EB45CE0-- --===============8661020481168777176== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============8661020481168777176==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 26 01:40:11 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12D972584C5A for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2016 01:40:11 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail.milleredp.com (fw.milleredp.com [198.144.208.110]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66D6A25853E6 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 13:08:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [10.1.2.100] ([::ffff:10.1.2.100]) (AUTH: PLAIN jem, TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,128bits,AES128-SHA) by mail.milleredp.com with ESMTPSA; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 12:08:53 -0700 id 00000000002800AD.00000000571E6B45.00001C0A To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <1D6D5DAE-46D9-4435-9FD1-E800678D4B93@icloud.com> From: John Miller Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 12:08:53 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Source of special plexiglass Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On 4/25/2016 5:57 AM, Pat Horne wrote: > Check into polycarbonate. It's tough stuff. McMaster-Carr has it. > Don't know how thick you need. Plexiglas is the original Rohm & Haas (IIRC) trademark for what is generically called acrylic. Polycarbonate is the generic term for what was originally sold by GE as Lexan. 'Vandal proof' clear plastic is usually polycarbonate. It is tougher and far more shatter-resistant (acrylic cracks quite easily particularly in < 1/4in thicknesses) though it can still be scratched and will melt if enough heat is applied. Acrylic is commonly found in all kinds of colors and opacities. Polycarbonate is commonly found only as clear. If you look at the edge of a sheet of clear acrylic it looks clear; the edge of a sheet of polycarbonate will look black. Polycarbonate filters/absorbs different parts of the light spectrum than acrylic. John. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 26 01:58:42 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CDC72580490 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2016 01:58:42 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail.milleredp.com (fw.milleredp.com [198.144.208.110]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 258C32584B82 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 13:17:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [10.1.2.100] ([::ffff:10.1.2.100]) (AUTH: PLAIN jem, TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,128bits,AES128-SHA) by mail.milleredp.com with ESMTPSA; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 12:17:13 -0700 id 00000000002800AD.00000000571E6D39.00001CA9 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <1D6D5DAE-46D9-4435-9FD1-E800678D4B93@icloud.com> <571E6B45.6070207@milleredp.com> From: John Miller Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 12:17:13 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Source of special plexiglass Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > Acrylic is commonly found in all kinds of colors and opacities. > Polycarbonate is commonly found only as clear. If you look at the edge > of a sheet of clear acrylic it looks clear; the edge of a sheet of > polycarbonate will look black. Polycarbonate filters/absorbs different > parts of the light spectrum than acrylic. This matters in particular if you're trying to assemble (acrylic solvent-welds easily, polycarbonate not really at all) or laser-cut on a CO2 laser (acrylic cuts nicely, polycarbonate just sucks up all the light and melts) random pieces of unknown plastic sheet. John. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 26 02:17:16 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7631D2584C95 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2016 02:17:16 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-po-10v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-po-10v.sys.comcast.net [96.114.154.169]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8052A2585469 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 13:46:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-po-05v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.229]) by comcast with SMTP id umSKal7OTZjFtumSUaQ6yb; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 19:46:14 +0000 s=q20140121; t=1461613574; bh=DZFktYZn+CSzvPPOvKvHIQlN9yQu0akgnotX2HpJiek=; h=Received:Received:Subject:To:From:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=Asj74UAu3/Rri1yeNM3Jm+R3WfvwUN6QoTn1GPy6i4z0e6MhixIYOgF4OSQ+ZpZ1k cvV5s6bfh0B+khj4QENRK7LBHf2aBAmyngx8ekatCOBxKk3sbjOTf80VaC0oj02zaZ XvfVLT/ouofuY5Ua+WKS/QhDewpace0FHDRBRQU4Mq1j+ONIMF3oXDu8kKtrC/yD/K 2qwApBmQK+djjkt8/GnVFvGj63wtb+iPnSGT7A4ql/gw/UH0jgeMY9DyXGm3hstaK/ hpD7KAIUF09CNpYOiQYIYtWyC3XyV1NlP/WtZoUYn6fKdvH9/j3efDutQxenUdZtOK L0mKVTuYYrkMw== Received: from [192.168.1.22] ([73.149.85.170]) by resomta-po-05v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id mjmD1s00q3gWFQx01jmENC; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 19:46:14 +0000 To: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net References: From: "Peter J. Thomas" Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 15:46:20 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Source of special plexiglass Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1179767670602760208== boundary="------------040209090101010906020809" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040209090101010906020809 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 4/24/2016 6:51 PM, eric@megageek.com wrote: > > I have a soda machine that I'm about to put back in service after > restoring it. It will be out in the general public. > > The last piece I need is a small (about 1" high by 5" wide) piece of > plexiglass that is 'vandal proof' (or whatever term they use.) > > This will cover the LED readout, so it needs to be semi-clear. If you > look at any modern vending machine, they all have them. Most a tinted > 'blueish' > > Then I need to glue it to the plastic frame (this is how the original > one was done. > > Two questions... > > Where can plexiglass, and what type of glue (and source) do I use? > > TIA Unless you're going concours your local big box hardware store carries plexi and polycarb. I'd go with the polycarb and just silcone chaulk. --------------040209090101010906020809 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
On 4/24/2016 6:51 PM, eric@megageek.com wrote:

I have a soda machine that I'm about to put back in service after restoring it.  It will be out in the general public.

The last piece I need is a small (about 1" high by 5" wide) piece of plexiglass that is 'vandal proof' (or whatever term they use.)

This will cover the LED readout, so it needs to be semi-clear.  If you look at any modern vending machine, they all have them.  Most a tinted 'blueish'

Then I need to glue it to the plastic frame (this is how the original one was done.

Two questions...

Where can plexiglass, and what type of glue (and source) do I use?

TIA
Unless you're going concours your local big box hardware store carries plexi and polycarb.  I'd go with the polycarb and just silcone chaulk.


--------------040209090101010906020809-- --===============1179767670602760208== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============1179767670602760208==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 26 03:23:56 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABC98258464B for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2016 03:23:56 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from qopa.pair.com (qopa.pair.com [209.68.5.147]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 819212585443 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 15:07:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from AMIPC (pool-68-133-33-23.bflony.fios.verizon.net [68.133.33.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by qopa.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3DEDDF1DF1; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 17:07:17 -0400 (EDT) From: "Tony Vaccaro" To: References: <1D6D5DAE-46D9-4435-9FD1-E800678D4B93@icloud.com> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 17:06:53 -0400 Thread-Index: AQHRnsNrqCxJnilGJ0eNvpd0UovMVZ+aposAgACH6nA= Content-Language: en-us Cc: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Source of special plexiglass Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============6829672687879958028== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01D19F14.DD9E5AC0" Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01D19F14.DD9E5AC0 charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We have place here in Buffalo called Great Lakes Plastic. =20 They have a whole section of cut offs, ends etc. If you tell me what = you want size wise and thickness I can try and fine the time to see if = they have it. Not a short drive=E2=80=A6.20 minutes or so=E2=80=A6.from = my place, but if you need it and cannot find it anywhere else I will = look. They might even not have it. =20 Tony V www.lotusowners.com =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01D19F14.DD9E5AC0 charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

We have = place here in Buffalo called Great Lakes = Plastic.

 

They have a = whole section of cut offs, ends etc.=C2=A0 If you tell me what you want = size wise and thickness I can try and fine the time to see if they have = it. Not a short drive=E2=80=A6.20 minutes or so=E2=80=A6.from my place, = but if you need it and cannot find it anywhere else I will look.=C2=A0 = They might even not have it.

 

Tony = V

www.lotusowners.com

 

------=_NextPart_000_000B_01D19F14.DD9E5AC0-- --===============6829672687879958028== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============6829672687879958028==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 26 09:58:22 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 412702584F97 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2016 09:58:22 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from filter02.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net (filter02.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net [199.224.80.229]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D32792584B55 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 20:04:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by filter02.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1132E231115; Tue, 26 Apr 2016 02:04:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from relay01.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net ([199.224.80.244]) by localhost (filter02.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net [199.224.80.229]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id dWebRtUa-DMi; Tue, 26 Apr 2016 02:03:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unknown [50.35.42.237]) by relay01.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 3BCE830C0C9; Tue, 26 Apr 2016 02:03:50 +0000 (UTC) To: eric@megageek.com References: From: Dave Cavanaugh Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 19:04:03 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Source of special plexiglass Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I agree polycarbonate is probably what you need. I would check with my local full service glass place; they may give you a piece since what you need is essentially a scrap. On 4/25/2016 5:00 AM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote: > I've used Interstate Plastics in the past for various things. Looks > like this might work, although my connection is too slow this morning > to get a price: > > https://www.interstateplastics.com/Acrylic-Cear-Bullet-Resistant-Sar-level-1-Sheet-ACRE1CPSHdead.php > > Jeff Scarbrough > Corrosion Acres, Ga. > > On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 6:51 PM, wrote: >> I have a soda machine that I'm about to put back in service after restoring >> it. It will be out in the general public. >> >> The last piece I need is a small (about 1" high by 5" wide) piece of >> plexiglass that is 'vandal proof' (or whatever term they use.) >> >> This will cover the LED readout, so it needs to be semi-clear. If you look >> at any modern vending machine, they all have them. Most a tinted 'blueish' >> >> Then I need to glue it to the plastic frame (this is how the original one >> was done. >> >> Two questions... >> >> Where can plexiglass, and what type of glue (and source) do I use? >> >> TIA >> >> Sent from my Commodore 64 on a 2400 Baud Modem. >> Eric P >> "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational >> being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo >> Emerson >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk@autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com >> >> > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/cavanadd@frontier.com > > _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 30 04:11:50 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E98A32588749 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 04:11:49 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from BAY004-OMC2S13.hotmail.com (bay004-omc2s13.hotmail.com [65.54.190.88]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B2962589120 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 09:20:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from NAM01-BY2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com ([65.54.190.124]) by BAY004-OMC2S13.hotmail.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.23008); Fri, 29 Apr 2016 08:20:03 -0700 s=selector1; h=From:To:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=6b4Nz3Xv2NQzaQ3pfQBO9SQTL1lFxdisMy9M9eEDUs4=; b=JxHKAfLdn+7gs67jtsOyuBcF7zEhi2JAu/tVX5xDkwiUxu9g3FOCiyuM7UQpq0J80qHhlHaEst733XAZNyjOeeSYZmC3Anca7/gqhyyTQt2rI/5mo/BrX4OuT5zGsmWpm+cj2s6LIsLaUGENMQZo3m9UnuO+CUjWfuruD1VnLR54PE02fdFWtfAJLbG7srpAK5ZCS894YWwFUqFzwJjF4iJKahXObH2w8MfyooUx6VVegWT2GrquKDMd4FSA8glNzKejkvEuhTeGYcijP31VnnOB/CR1LZj2EAj/666kDGqin92WMNe8MQOcUjBGAEe+1zx34rha3++WDnLGHY35aA== Received: from BY2NAM01FT062.eop-nam01.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.68.54) by BY2NAM01HT085.eop-nam01.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.68.71) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.477.4; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 15:19:54 +0000 Received: from DM3PR13MB0538.namprd13.prod.outlook.com (10.152.68.55) by BY2NAM01FT062.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.69.159) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.477.4 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 15:19:54 +0000 Received: from DM3PR13MB0538.namprd13.prod.outlook.com ([10.164.8.24]) by DM3PR13MB0538.namprd13.prod.outlook.com ([10.164.8.24]) with mapi id 15.01.0485.010; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 15:19:54 +0000 From: "Tim ." To: "Shop Talk" Thread-Topic: Classic car insurance tangents...a follow up Thread-Index: AQHRoiqUCvVREWk2KkqsbYEh2xAlBg== Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 15:19:54 +0000 References: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US authentication-results: spf=softfail (sender IP is 25.152.68.55) header.d=none; autox.team.net; dmarc=fail action=none header.from=outlook.com; received-spf: SoftFail (protection.outlook.com: domain of transitioning outlook.com discourages use of 25.152.68.55 as permitted sender) x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-tmn: [Xfhm/jxwJonOqRGrHDrLCBxAZBU+vkxH] x-eopattributedmessage: 0 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:25.152.68.55; IPV:NLI; CTRY:GB; EFV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(98900003); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BY2NAM01HT085; H:DM3PR13MB0538.namprd13.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:SoftFail; MLV:ovrnspm; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: dbd37ebb-d46f-4dfb-9cae-08d37041b774 x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(5061506196)(5061507196); SRVR:BY2NAM01HT085; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(432015012)(82015046); SRVR:BY2NAM01HT085; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:BY2NAM01HT085; x-forefront-prvs: 0927AA37C7 FILETIME=[9A3B9FE0:01D1A22A] Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Classic car insurance tangents...a follow up Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============5409769082866097323== Content-Language: en-US boundary="_000_DM3PR13MB0538A13DC9F7D14FE98640DEB4660DM3PR13MB0538namp_" --_000_DM3PR13MB0538A13DC9F7D14FE98640DEB4660DM3PR13MB0538namp_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, I thought I would post a follow up since good customer service has become t= he exception not the rule in this day and age. As I had said a while back, the Phoenix Insurance company recommended by a = Roadster owner said they don't write in WI. But the guy I dealt with at tha= t company recommended Berkeley Classic Insurance. I did their online quote = process for both the Roadster and Jeep, got great quotes for the values tha= t I picked and then filled out the application. The application was quickl= y accepted and I now have an agreed upon amount of coverage for both vehicl= es for under $300 annually. I've not yet read the fine print but so far the= whole process has been great. Hagerty and Grundy can get stuffed tim ________________________________ From: Shop-talk on behalf of Tim . Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2016 2:03 PM To: Shop Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] Classic car insurance tangents I didn't want to hijack the original thread..... First a question: How was your vehicle's value decided? I am especially int= erested in hearing from the Datsun Roadster guys (and any of you who might = have a FSJ; Full Size Jeep). A local Roadster owner was rear ended last yea= r. It was a very slow hit but the repair estimate was well over what his co= verage was. He has either grundy or hagerty. I do not remember. I am ready to switch the Jeep (71 Gladiator fully restored and lifted, etc = etc.) and my 70 Roadster to classic insurance but want to make sure they ar= e insured for what it would cost to fix them if the worst happened. Second, a knock on grundy: I looked into them when I got my Dad's Roadster.= At that time both of my daughters were in high school; one of which had he= r license, and the wife and I both had clean driving records. Well, because= my daughter didn't have her own car, grundy denied me coverage stating "th= e teen driver might take the Roadster for a drive because she didn't have h= er own car". (<-----this is almost verbatim) It didn't matter that the chil= d didn't know how to drive a manual or that fact that she wasn't allowed to= drive it. I have good kids and it would never have been an issue when they= were still at home. so, take the grundy feedback any way you want. I was not happy with how I w= as treated. I hope to hear about the first bit from any and all of you. Thanks tim --_000_DM3PR13MB0538A13DC9F7D14FE98640DEB4660DM3PR13MB0538namp_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all, 


I thought I would post a follow up since good customer service has becom= e the exception not the rule in this day and age. 


As I had said a while back, the Phoenix Insurance company recommended by= a Roadster owner said they don't write in WI. But the guy I dealt with at = that company recommended Berkeley Classic Insurance. I did their online quo= te process for both the Roadster and Jeep, got great quotes for the values that I picked and then= filled out the application.  The application was quickly accepte= d and I now have an agreed upon amount of coverage for both vehicles for un= der $300 annually. I've not yet read the fine print but so far the whole process has been great. 


Hagerty and Grundy can get stuffed


tim



From: Shop-talk <shop-ta= lk-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff@outl= ook.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2016 2:03 PM
To: Shop Talk
Subject: [Shop-talk] Classic car insurance tangents
 

I didn't want to hijack the original thread.....


First a question: How was your vehicle's value decided? I am especially = interested in hearing from the Datsun Roadster guys (and any of you who mig= ht have a FSJ; Full Size Jeep). A local Roadster owner was rear ended last = year. It was a very slow hit but the repair estimate was well over what his coverage was. He has either gru= ndy or hagerty. I do not remember. 


I am ready to switch the Jeep (71 Gladiator fully restored and lifted, e= tc etc.) and my 70 Roadster to classic insurance but want to make sure they= are insured for what it would cost to fix them if the worst happened. = ;



Second, a knock on grundy: I looked into them when I got my Dad's Roadst= er. At that time both of my daughters were in high school; one of which had= her license, and the wife and I both had clean driving records. Well, beca= use my daughter didn't have her own car, grundy denied me coverage stating "the teen driver might tak= e the Roadster for a drive because she didn't have her own car". (<= -----this is almost verbatim) It didn't matter that the child didn't k= now how to drive a manual or that fact that she wasn't allowed to drive it. I have good kids and it would never have been an issue when t= hey were still at home. 


so, take the grundy feedback any way you want. I was not happy with how = I was treated. 


I hope to hear about the first bit from any and all of you. 


Thanks

tim

--_000_DM3PR13MB0538A13DC9F7D14FE98640DEB4660DM3PR13MB0538namp_-- --===============5409769082866097323== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============5409769082866097323==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 30 10:55:41 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECFC82586575 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 10:55:40 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from outbound-mail02.vgs.untd.com (outbound-mail02.vgs.untd.com [64.136.55.36]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 84D9A2588E4C for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 20:56:11 -0600 (MDT) t=1461898573; bh=47DEQpj8HBSa+/TImW+5JCeuQeRkm5NMpJWZG3hSuFU=; l=0; h=From:Date:To:Subject:Message-Id:Content-Type; b=FHbRB3R4omvBbUWq95gvGcaEsnU1MjglJubQ6w5bra2kdxHCFclAfanHs5SSw/7aK X1nlKgHkjnqeQ6J9omep8VHF69PD5ppszphl+hjOmOsgkdLKOODsD0W5vqRB2hFxcI GjZvBSGsEfozszkKT/F5FIi26V+GJGIF6HyWxM90= Received: from outbound-mail.vgs.untd.com (webmail04.vgs.untd.com [10.181.12.144]) by smtpout01.vgs.untd.com with SMTP id AABMUFVK4ARW8KZJ for (sender ); Thu, 28 Apr 2016 19:55:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [173.21.140.236] by webmail04.vgs.untd.com with HTTP: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 02:54:51 GMT From: "Matt" Full-Name: "Matt" Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 02:54:51 GMT To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] Pavers Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============0787885394711211182== ----__JWM__J281de685.422d6e80S.293aa990M Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Thanks again for the great ideas on the weld on bung for the fuel tank. = I am adding a patio outside the shop. Anyone have experience with the ed= ging for paver projects? Home Depot has the old standard powder coated = steel but there are also options consisting of aluminum, Polypropylene a= nd plastic. Any experience with this? Matt ----__JWM__J281de685.422d6e80S.293aa990M Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Thanks again for the great ideas on the weld on bung for the = fuel tank.
 
I am adding a patio outside the shop.
 
Anyone have experience with the edging for paver projects?  Ho= me Depot has the old standard powder coated steel but there are also opt= ions consisting of aluminum, Polypropylene and plastic. Any experie= nce with this?
 
Matt
 
 
 
 
----__JWM__J281de685.422d6e80S.293aa990M-- --===============0787885394711211182== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive --===============0787885394711211182==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 30 23:28:58 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8EAC25887CF for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 23:28:58 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-ch2-11v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-po-11v.sys.comcast.net [96.114.154.170]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F6252588F91 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 23:17:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-po-18v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.242]) by comcast with SMTP id wjlTaJFLSvJlgwjlTa91J6; Sun, 01 May 2016 05:17:55 +0000 s=q20140121; t=1462079875; bh=Ar3MsM3mHHl/dGw18f7dhEkIP0g/Ws3QIrpBzjeJSjk=; h=Received:Received:Reply-To:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:Date: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=svdkZrOuw7kMjT0e737a1UiMecvXGRq5DXHgpYF4t2sNpw0+RJchCqwBNFQeORiqI RMJOZgyfFBdbZnnXpNLpfyQjuQi7oBfPMwiEfijz85OybWwrghDQuYlJiupYSAh9Zx VP6MhYf1krjuHZwl8fzOHAqc2/kjXnFRIlEgVzRHCww8XF14JrqPSUgeI2wbLOpPmD FiJFr5EydareQn7jJQxslz5MyS0x/IyV/ymG0IUpm9XqarXaV5kXvwp7hLJ07omYEx nh/oaO1QtjfIYkIfTCQ38JLFQFAtEmyVDPg1kOSWZPenFRtC69qTU6a3wTxrqFiYGy KRl4vLWIJxSVQ== Received: from [192.168.0.100] ([50.168.107.76]) by resomta-po-18v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id otHu1s0041evlWS01tHuEP; Sun, 01 May 2016 05:17:55 +0000 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net From: Mark Miller Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 22:17:59 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.0 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tool review: HF rotary hammer Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Hi. Just wanted to post a positive review for a tool I got yesterday at HF. I needed to peel up a couple of hundred feet of 12" ceramic tiles glued down to a concrete slab prior to putting in some engineered bamboo flooring. Took a few whacks with a sledge then bought a HF 1 9/16" sds max rotary hammer (#69334). Went on sale this week for $100, set of bits for just under half that. I got it the day before the sale info came out but with 20% off it was $103. Close enough to not go whine for the difference. http://www.harborfreight.com/1-916-in-85-amp-heavy-duty-sds-max-type-variable-speed-rotary-hammer-69334.html What a great decision. Tile chips and dust everywhere and all tile up with just a few hours of work. -- Regards, Mark Miller markmiller@threeboysfarm.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive