Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Single Phase motors

From: Dave Cavanaugh <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 22:13:12 -0700

Yes, that would be the problem; it probably does not have an internal 
centrifugal switch to drop the cap out of the circuit when the motor 
comes up to full speed.

On 3/20/2016 9:58 PM, Jack Brooks wrote:
> The motor in question is a “Westinghouse S# 316P 824”.  I can provide 
> more motor details if it’s beneficial. I am concerned that the motor 
> cannot accept a capacitor as it is probably not equipped to switch 
> from start to run mode.

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Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
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From: Jack Brooks <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 21:37:14 -0700

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Thanks Dave, Randall and Michael.  I have some investigating to do.  I know
the previous owner added the power cord right before I picked it up, so
there may be an error in wiring or omission here.  I now have some
additional data and a few things too look at.

Thanks again,

Jack

From: Shop-talk [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Jack
Brooks
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2016 9:59 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [Shop-talk] Single Phase motors

Background:

My son and I built a tumbler using a single phase motor from a furnace.  It
has a starting capacitor and will start the tumbler with a fully loaded 20
pound barrel in the same direction every time it starts.  What I didn't
realize at the time we build this heavy duty tumbler was that that motor
didn't have an internal fan.  In the furnace the fan motor is in airflow and
doesn't need an internal cooling fan.   I've always had to put a fan on it
whenever it ran to keep the motor cool.  The tumbler runs for weeks or
months at a time and I am tired of the breeze that the fan creates in my
workshop.   

Issue/question:

I just came into another motor that has an internal fan (a lot less
localized wind) but it does not use a starting capacitor.  This one does not
always start on its own and will start in either direction.  I am 99% sure
this is normal for a non-capacitor start motor.  My wife will occasional
turn the tumbler off when she is expecting clients into her home office, as
while it's not intrusive, you can hear the rocks tumbling it in the
background in her office.  Is it possible to retrofit a capacitor so it'll
start on its own consistently and always in the same direction?  That way
when she shuts it down and restarts it, it'll always start and turn in the
correct direction.  Yes, typically direction is not an issue, but we tumble
some stuff with custom built barrels where it is important.  

It is my understanding that the phasing of the capacitor to the motor drives
the motor's direction.  I can work with it starting on either direction
(flip the barrel end for end reversing the direction), but it needs to be
consistent.  

The motor in question is a "Westinghouse S# 316P 824".  I can provide more
motor details if it's beneficial. I am concerned that the motor cannot
accept a capacitor as it is probably not equipped to switch from start to
run mode.

Thanks in advance,

Jack, mechanical, not electrical, enginerd

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link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#1F497D'>Thanks Dave, Randall and Michael.&nbsp; I =
have some investigating to do.&nbsp; I know the previous owner added the =
power cord right before I picked it up, so there may be an error in =
wiring or omission here.&nbsp; I now have some additional data and a few =
things too look at.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#1F497D'>Thanks again,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#1F497D'>Jack<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Shop-talk =
[mailto:[email-masked]] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jack =
Brooks<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 20, 2016 9:59 PM<br><b>To:</b> =
[email-masked]<br><b>Subject:</b> [Shop-talk] Single Phase =
motors<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Background:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>My son =
and I built a tumbler using a single phase motor from a furnace.&nbsp; =
It has a starting capacitor and will start the tumbler with a fully =
loaded 20 pound barrel in the same direction every time it starts.&nbsp; =
What I didn&#8217;t realize at the time we build this heavy duty tumbler =
was that that motor didn&#8217;t have an internal fan.&nbsp; In the =
furnace the fan motor is in airflow and doesn&#8217;t need an internal =
cooling fan.&nbsp; &nbsp;I&#8217;ve always had to put a fan on it =
whenever it ran to keep the motor cool.&nbsp; The tumbler runs for weeks =
or months at a time and I am tired of the breeze that the fan creates in =
my workshop. &nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Issue/question:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>I =
just came into another motor that has an internal fan (a lot less =
localized wind) but it does not use a starting capacitor.&nbsp; This one =
does not always start on its own and will start in either =
direction.&nbsp; I am 99% sure this is normal for a non-capacitor start =
motor.&nbsp; My wife will occasional turn the tumbler off when she is =
expecting clients into her home office, as while it&#8217;s not =
intrusive, you can hear the rocks tumbling it in the background in her =
office.&nbsp; Is it possible to retrofit a capacitor so it&#8217;ll =
start on its own consistently and always in the same direction?&nbsp; =
That way when she shuts it down and restarts it, it&#8217;ll always =
start and turn in the correct direction.&nbsp; Yes, typically direction =
is not an issue, but we tumble some stuff with custom built barrels =
where it is important.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>It is my =
understanding that the phasing of the capacitor to the motor drives the =
motor&#8217;s direction.&nbsp; I can work with it starting on either =
direction (flip the barrel end for end reversing the direction), but it =
needs to be consistent.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>The motor in =
question is a &#8220;Westinghouse S# 316P 824&#8221;.&nbsp; I can =
provide more motor details if it&#8217;s beneficial. I am concerned that =
the motor cannot accept a capacitor as it is probably not equipped to =
switch from start to run mode.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Thanks in =
advance,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Jack, mechanical, not electrical, =
enginerd<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></body></html>
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[email-masked]

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