Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Floor scraper...but it's not that easy

From: John Miller <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 11:16:38 -0800

> I need...a dull(er) scraper. Maybe. Something I can lever under the tile
> that won't bite into the wood or tile. Or do I just need something else?
> Or...how can I remove vinyl tile from a wood subfloor? The tile is so old
> that it's disintegrating and I can't pull it up a tile at a time. But it's
> also too crumble-y to try to get a piece at a time--it's take months just
> to do the 10-by-6 area.

What kind of adhesive?  Would a heat gun soften everything enough to 
loosen it?

John.
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From: Darrell Walker <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2015 11:22:13 -0800

I saw once about using dry ice to remove tiles.

http://www.acmedryice.com/remove_floor_tiles_dry_ice.html

-Darrell

> On Nov 3, 2015, at 11:02 AM, Scott Hall <[email-masked]>
wrote:
>
> So, the garage had part of the floor covered with vinyl tile.
>
> No sweat. Bought a floor scraper from Harbor Freight. Nice tool. Very
> sharp, thick blade on the end of a pole. Good for smooth concrete
subfloors.
>
> Now I'm moving to the bathroom, which isn't over a slab--it's hung off the
> side of the building over a crawlspace. Which means a wood subfloor.
>
> The scraper is too sharp. The vinyl tile is at least two layers deep (they
> just tiled over the old tile) and it flexes. So running the scraper over
> it, it either bites into the tile and binds up (it can't bear against the
> rigid concrete subfloor), or it bites into the wood floor itself.
>
> Looking for advice--the garage mahal has a bathroom, and it's going to be
> awesome. As soon as I get this vinyl tile up.
>
> Scott
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From: Jim Franklin <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 15:00:07 -0500

> side of the building over a crawlspace. Which means a wood subfloor.

When I come across this I just pull up the subfloor. MUCH easier than dealing
with separating the tile. Plywood is cheap, relatively speaking.

jim

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From: "Pat Horne" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 15:29:51 -0600

As was mentioned, beware of asbestos tile. The easiest way to identify it is
that asbestos tile us usually 8" or 9" size, where vinyl is usually 12"
tile.

Peace,
Pat

-----Original Message-----
From: Shop-talk [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Scott
Hall
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 1:02 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [Shop-talk] Floor scraper...but it's not that easy

No sweat. Bought a floor scraper from Harbor Freight. Nice tool. Very sharp,
thick blade on the end of a pole. Good for smooth concrete subfloors.

The scraper is too sharp. The vinyl tile is at least two layers deep (they
just tiled over the old tile) and it flexes. So running the scraper over it,
it either bites into the tile and binds up (it can't bear against the rigid
concrete subfloor), or it bites into the wood floor itself.

also too crumble-y to try to get a piece at a time--it's take months just to
do the 10-by-6 area.

Scott

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From: Scott Hall <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 15:37:17 -0600

Actually, the scraper blade *is* shaped just like a very large chisel.

And it's made of something like Mithral--my first thought was to file the
scraper until a desired level of dull-ness was achieved. My file isn't
doing a thing to it--not even the edges (like you suggested). Or else the
wood and tile are just that soft. I've hacked up about 50 sq. ft. of floor
so far.

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 1:53 PM, Randall <[email-masked]> wrote:

> What about filing a taper on the end of the scraper, making it more like a
> wood chisel?  With some practice, maybe you could hit the
> edge of the tile at just the right angle, so the sharp edge would get
> under the edge of the tile, then the natural lever action as
> the scraper moves would lever the tile away from the wood.  You might also
> want to round or blunt the corners to make them less apt
> to dig in.
>
> -- Randall
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]

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From: John Miller <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 13:49:58 -0800

> that asbestos tile us usually 8" or 9" size, where vinyl is usually 12"

A dozen years ago when we did some significant remodeling we found tile 
on the slab under the carpet in a couple rooms, from when the house was 
built in 1964/65.

Sent samples out for asbestos testing and found that while the tiles did 
not contain friable asbestos, the adhesive did.

The bunny-suit crew was out here at 8AM, taped off the rooms, hooked up 
the blower, suited up, busted and scraped all the tile out, gave me the 
chain-of-custody paperwork on the shipper and disposal, and was gone by 
early afternoon.  I don't recall it being memorably expensive.

John.

[email-masked]

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From: Scott Hall <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 16:17:22 -0600

I'll measure it to be sure, but this stuff is about 12 inches square, and
it looks like the mid-'80s stuff my mom had in her kitchen. The stuff on
top looks like 1990s era stuff. Also about a foot square.

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Pat Horne <[email-masked]> wrote:

> sharp,
> it,
> to

[email-masked]

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From: David Hillman <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 17:38:09 -0500 (EST)

> top looks like 1990s era stuff. Also about a foot square.

    Measuring is not a fool-proof way to distinguish.  I can't believe 
someone suggested that.

<http://inspectapedia.com/hazmat/Asbestos_Floor_Tile_ID.php>

    There exist tiles of many sizes with asbestos.  That link lists many, 
but I'm not sure that's definitive either.

    If they crumble into a white powder, that's probably asbestos, and you 
don't want to be breathing that dust.  Neither does anyone you hire to 
remove them, so it'll cost a couple grand.

--
  David Hillman

[email-masked]

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From: "Pat Horne" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 16:43:42 -0600

One other thing. Larger rental companies and some flooring suppliers will rent
you a power floor scraper. I used one on a floor that was covered with glued
down rubber sheet. It was a lot easier than working by hand and it cut out
strips about a foot wide so it should work fine on VCT. The blade shuttles
back and forth, cutting into the mastic.

Peace,

Pat

From: Scott Hall [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 4:17 PM
To: Pat Horne
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Floor scraper...but it's not that easy

I'll measure it to be sure, but this stuff is about 12 inches square, and it
looks like the mid-'80s stuff my mom had in her kitchen. The stuff on top
looks like 1990s era stuff. Also about a foot square.

Peace,
Pat

-----Original Message-----

Scott

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From: Brian Kemp <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 18:04:53 -0800

Scott - I second the asbestos content.  A homeowner can remove small 
amounts, but if a big area, it may be best for a professional.  If you 
touch it, wear a good respirator - more than a dust mask.  I think it is 
N99 vs N95 as in the percent filtered.

Look and see if you have two layers of wood for your flooring.  If so, I 
would definitely at least take off the top layer.  Careful cutting with 
a circular saw should make it easy.

It will probably be easiest to just take a circular saw and cut around 
the edge of the room to take out the subfloor.  I did this in one 
bathroom earlier this year.  I had water damage near the shower and 
toilet and decided it was easiest to just take up the plywood and 1x6 
floor boards and put down new plywood.  I used the oscillating cutter in 
the corners where the circular saw couldn't get.  3/4" plywood was close 
enough to the 1x6 then I topped it with a layer of 1/2" plywood in the 
opposite direction.  The floor is very solid.  I went a step further 
with a layer of Ditra membrane then tile.

My second bathroom had sheet vinyl that had to come up.  I tried a heat 
gun and a scraper blade in my oscillating tool, but both took forever.  
I ended up using my rotary hammer with a chisel bit - an older version 
of this:
http://www.harborfreight.com/1-18-in-10-amp-heavy-duty-sds-variable-speed-rotary-hammer-69274.html
and
http://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-sds-max-type-masonry-chisel-bit-set-3-pc-60377.html
This quickly took up the floor in strips.  This was over a concrete 
slab.  I had a couple bits remain, so just hit them with the angle 
grinder with a concrete grinding disk.  I first tried the angle grinder 
with a wire cup, but the adhesive was too soft, so just smeared.  A 
sanding disk would be better for the wood if you keep the existing floor.

They make a compound for leveling the floor, so if you have some scrapes 
and divots, you can just skim the floor and have a near perfect 
surface.  This means you don't have to be as careful removing the old 
stuff if you try and keep the existing wood.

While working, I hung a box fan in the window on high to exhaust all the 
mess outside and wore a respirator.  My safety glasses kept fogging, so 
I switched to swim goggles.  I also wore my hearing protection as it was 
noisy.  Best to take care of yourself so you can keep doing the projects.

Brian

On 11/3/2015 11:02 AM, Scott Hall wrote:
> sharp, thick blade on the end of a pole. Good for smooth concrete subfloors.
>

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