From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Aug 1 05:30:16 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AAAE2585174 for ; Sat, 1 Aug 2015 05:30:16 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-io0-f172.google.com (mail-io0-f172.google.com [209.85.223.172]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B6B625846CA for ; Sat, 1 Aug 2015 05:25:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by ioii16 with SMTP id i16so107777235ioi.0 for ; Sat, 01 Aug 2015 04:25:52 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=epMgqcPuzBG794X5xLx0K7Y0nP3HTnZ60K+PFzNpLj4=; b=cikEOgrxvu7+DjCawxcK83BDt0/DMTiWUu4GHyO2m2zu+CXaEQ2si28aZj2CKxbMkQ r+9AbROgO3QxSaVTvyN8wXGSgL3DgLnG0kM68PptnXSva/OFwAVFQdMbLm4PI68VGBZp /Ym7ehXtPtQ2pFwyQYfzBd66WtPCqzuFTPKY2LWP1YA/8Owbz/gvADaIq89PBSAoN7fa 5HsycqzB2vh8xcZeZr+UicR4eRRvya9dDHC4cXKIpoumPZHaGewsUrnlV1C7PqJxJh5m ctddvDoTUl1VOVjHSwU+QUQZGie0Iddou2YMr+BZO2P0CBVGIxcG9XXwit7GcX3l2kxF 4L/w== t26mr11918638ioi.13.1438428352240; Sat, 01 Aug 2015 04:25:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.101.227 with HTTP; Sat, 1 Aug 2015 04:25:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.101.227 with HTTP; Sat, 1 Aug 2015 04:25:51 -0700 (PDT) References: <1804233A391A40F694D4960525807B75@StevePC> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2015 07:25:51 -0400 From: Jeff Scarbrough To: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Electrical install questions Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Are fuses required? I've seen plenty that are just a pull-out handle... On Jul 31, 2015 11:36 PM, "David Scheidt" wrote: > On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Steve Hammatt, Mount Vernon WA USA > wrote: > > Need to hook up home central a/c located in my (temporary) shop/garage. > > New shop and extra garage space is to be soon added to our property. > > The installation will be handled by a local HVAC contractor (using an > outside > > electrical contractor) or option is to allow the homeowner (me) to > supply the > > power from the panel to the electrical shutoff mounted on the outside > wall > > of the garage, next to the condenser. We have a dedicated 30A 240V > circuit, > > previously used for an electric clothes dryer (now switched to gas) that > > goes up and through the garage attic trusses (above the garageb s drywall > > ceiling) > > toward the houseb s laundry room. My thought is to interrupt the run to > the > > dryer, terminating the run toward the no longer being used dryer, and > install > > a J-box to make a new run to the adjacent garage wall for the a/c unit. > I > > plan > > to bore through the double top plate and run the Romex down through the > wall > > and through to the outside where it would be connected to the switch box. > > Here are my questions: > > 1. Planning 2.5 ton 13SEER unit. What Romex wiring size can I run? > Itb s > > about a > > total of 50b . > > 30 amp breaker requires 10gauge wire, which will provide a 3% voltage > drop at about 100 feet. > > > > 2. I understand that the J-box in the attic storage space must be easily > > accessible. > > Any other placement requirements? > > 3. Any recommendations for the outside switch box? Is there a design > for > > going through a siding/OSB exterior wall? > > I expect they want a standard a/c disconnect, with fuses. There are > versions that feed through the back, from through the wall. > > > 4. Any nailing recommendations? Ib m familiar with not nailing > (staples) > > too > > tight on the Romex. Spacing suggestions? > > Minimum spacing is specified by the NEC. basic rule is no more than > 4.5 feet apart, within one foot of any box or fitting, and within 6 > inches of a single gang box without a clamp. Also, wire should be > parallel with the studs (where that makes sense, of course), and needs > to be 1 1/4 away from the edge. If it can't be, it has to be > protected from nails by a plate, sleeve, or in conduit. There are > additional complications, but if you follow that, use sense, you'll be > fine. > > > -- > David Scheidt > dmscheidt@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Aug 1 06:15:27 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB44825859FD for ; Sat, 1 Aug 2015 06:15:26 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mailfront1.g2host.com (mailfront1.g2host.com [209.98.94.161]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8445225809FC for ; Sat, 1 Aug 2015 06:09:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [76.164.52.117] (account arvidj@visi.com HELO [192.168.1.48]) by visi.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.11) with ESMTPSA id 32524760; Sat, 01 Aug 2015 07:09:29 -0500 To: shop-talk References: <55B6BEC2.1080800@att.net> From: Arvid Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2015 07:09:23 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.1.0 Cc: David Scheidt Subject: [Shop-talk] Wire Taps ... Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Try this a third time with a different email client to see if the body of the message gets thru ... David Scheidt wrote: > On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 8:12 AM, Arvid Jedlicka wrote: >> > Arvid: nothing reached the list. Thanks David. I'll try this again with a different email client and see if it works ... I'll need to tap into some of the small interior wiring on the car. I'd like to access the collective wisdom of thegroup regarding the best way to do it. We're all familiar with the guillotine style ... http://www.amazon.com/Morris-Products-10774-Splice-Connector/dp/B0106BJ8CI/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1438088400&sr=8-8&keywords=splice&pebp=1438088429119&perid=0HVMJGHE6P8SY9HN2QM6 ... but I'm not that fond of them. My limited experience with them usually results in the original wire being cut orthe added wire not remaining attached. I am assuming it is operator error but it could be I'm just buying the wrongbrand or size of connector. Suggestions welcome. I've also seen, but never used, the posi-tap type of connectors ... http://www.posi-products.com/posiplug.html ... Any real world experience would be appreciated. That's all I can think of and very likely have missed "the perfect solution". Suggestions and recommendations?? Thanks, Arvid _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Aug 1 06:30:31 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE8652586AF7 for ; Sat, 1 Aug 2015 06:30:30 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-ch2-08v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-08v.sys.comcast.net [69.252.207.40]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5948525809FC for ; Sat, 1 Aug 2015 06:25:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-15v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.111]) by resqmta-ch2-08v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id zQRM1q0032Qkjl901QRSR3; Sat, 01 Aug 2015 12:25:26 +0000 Received: from resmail-ch2-322v.sys.comcast.net ([162.150.49.101]) by resomta-ch2-15v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id zQRS1q00N2Azwqi01QRSG4; Sat, 01 Aug 2015 12:25:26 +0000 Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2015 12:25:26 +0000 (UTC) From: Gordie Bird To: Jeff Scarbrough References: <1804233A391A40F694D4960525807B75@StevePC> (Win)/8.0.7_GA_6031) Thread-Topic: Electrical install questions Thread-Index: 9hGeC6reQmR2LMwWZBqjZqWagMVO9g== s=q20140121; t=1438431926; bh=DiHkA4QJvmFAsAyvHOb00nVkCrkqDug6n0XY+o3cnsQ=; h=Received:Received:Date:From:To:Message-ID:Subject:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=ZyQEhtHukBnLaBJv9bY0fTfbQsDnq5OZ2WAXNS5k18EJqPYwNjxvO7ro79C5eXczF oaRRNUSB01X2oiSQnTMVudbWWPEcTdkl1RZ4XUmzn28FmwHxnc9Fhh5EdPxegtXC6y kmWDSvMuh2ulgTvE6lxA2XhenWkj/ILSUp+Qx/d5Fb3NSHGNiDUwh5TJT8LbXlJQvi tUF5lxmwDF5lS8dBEijordvthdm3L6g5TahGOTInYUrWJB//z+VGAPRPtRGGuy0ybG kn4Kf+B2Eyjv6gsSOulM+FHiljum28QcwQTAhUn2/CXL0wh2Mu/IQs0dq8vHNT5HDz ZnfxDh8BituiA== Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Electrical install questions Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net My pull out handle contains 2 fuses... Are fuses required? I've seen plenty that are just a pull-out handle... On Jul 31, 2015 11:36 PM, "David Scheidt" wrote: > On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Steve Hammatt, Mount Vernon WA USA > wrote: > > Need to hook up home central a/c located in my (temporary) shop/garage. > > New shop and extra garage space is to be soon added to our property. > > The installation will be handled by a local HVAC contractor (using an > outside > > electrical contractor) or option is to allow the homeowner (me) to > supply the > > power from the panel to the electrical shutoff mounted on the outside > wall > > of the garage, next to the condenser. We have a dedicated 30A 240V > circuit, > > previously used for an electric clothes dryer (now switched to gas) that > > goes up and through the garage attic trusses (above the garageb s drywall > > ceiling) > > toward the houseb s laundry room. My thought is to interrupt the run to > the > > dryer, terminating the run toward the no longer being used dryer, and > install > > a J-box to make a new run to the adjacent garage wall for the a/c unit. > I > > plan > > to bore through the double top plate and run the Romex down through the > wall > > and through to the outside where it would be connected to the switch box. > > Here are my questions: > > 1. Planning 2.5 ton 13SEER unit. What Romex wiring size can I run? > Itb s > > about a > > total of 50b . > > 30 amp breaker requires 10gauge wire, which will provide a 3% voltage > drop at about 100 feet. > > > > 2. I understand that the J-box in the attic storage space must be easily > > accessible. > > Any other placement requirements? > > 3. Any recommendations for the outside switch box? Is there a design > for > > going through a siding/OSB exterior wall? > > I expect they want a standard a/c disconnect, with fuses. There are > versions that feed through the back, from through the wall. > > > 4. Any nailing recommendations? Ib m familiar with not nailing > (staples) > > too > > tight on the Romex. Spacing suggestions? > > Minimum spacing is specified by the NEC. basic rule is no more than > 4.5 feet apart, within one foot of any box or fitting, and within 6 > inches of a single gang box without a clamp. Also, wire should be > parallel with the studs (where that makes sense, of course), and needs > to be 1 1/4 away from the edge. If it can't be, it has to be > protected from nails by a plate, sleeve, or in conduit. There are > additional complications, but if you follow that, use sense, you'll be > fine. > > > -- > David Scheidt > dmscheidt@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Aug 1 07:00:36 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D54DE25885AB for ; Sat, 1 Aug 2015 07:00:36 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ig0-f181.google.com (mail-ig0-f181.google.com [209.85.213.181]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67482258047A for ; Sat, 1 Aug 2015 06:54:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by igbij6 with SMTP id ij6so31441423igb.1 for ; Sat, 01 Aug 2015 05:54:27 -0700 (PDT) h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=Wp7q19AK75qr/Ai/0Vh/AB/LBeBG426VoV8Z1KmEOdc=; b=iKLDhkJakDuZUlYDFIMD/oQlJP8JfxiByAadDQsDlOvOTPgSwHq6Xjzzs3qQNeQG3D JCfmjrduZJqGRL0QtroclIHT9zgvJv87hN2DpSB5fcAIRqkuJT7VnXD95ab5KbJMY6qg eB2I7zhabkSwFgMNlN8NNN3COPToZBqOkRhE0/pRbKEW1v+skVuK06sHRRE4vCpx0vL8 4lmW5uZrA3dteIZeq1GZAXruD7wL3T2/hlkg3y6g/8kIh4fEhles0cLAObVOGJ2GGYCS KB7aVVGkLZzuY/3wREFzKXu+bZWUMlweESAIpPmfPhpsNE00lqg1uAJU/e+HN4A7VYHh Jaag== hz7mr11549619igb.91.1438433667782; Sat, 01 Aug 2015 05:54:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.103] (205-178-103-199.c3-0.stk-ubr1.chi-stk.il.cable.rcn.com. [205.178.103.199]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id lr1sm1274345igb.10.2015.08.01.05.54.26 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 01 Aug 2015 05:54:27 -0700 (PDT) From: David Scheidt Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2015 07:54:26 -0500 References: <1804233A391A40F694D4960525807B75@StevePC> To: Jeff Scarbrough Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Electrical install questions Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > On Aug 1, 2015, at 06:25, Jeff Scarbrough wrote: > > Are fuses required? I've seen plenty that are just a pull-out handle... >> On Jul 31, 2015 1 It depends on the equipment and the ahj. The equipment will say max fuse/ breaker size. If that's bigger than the branch circuit's size, a fuse or hcar breaker is required. If the label requires fuses, then fuses and not a breaker are required. Since everyone has a breaker panel and not a fuse box, the fuses go in the disconnect. (New equipment labels don't say that much anymore. ) Bigger circuit than load is common where old equipment is replaced with more efficient stuff, and putting fuses in the disconnect is cheaper than replacing the breaker. Fused disconnects are cheaper than ones that take a breaker. Since a blown fuse generally means equipment failure, it is not a big problem. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Aug 1 17:40:02 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08C5D258C389 for ; Sat, 1 Aug 2015 17:40:02 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail.milleredp.com (fw.milleredp.com [198.144.208.110]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90CCE258C346 for ; Sat, 1 Aug 2015 17:39:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [10.1.2.100] ([::ffff:10.1.2.100]) (AUTH: PLAIN jem, TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,128bits,AES128-SHA) by mail.milleredp.com with ESMTPSA; Sat, 01 Aug 2015 16:39:50 -0700 id 00000000002800AD.0000000055BD58C6.000028E4 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <55B6BEC2.1080800@att.net> From: John Miller Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2015 16:39:25 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.1.0 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Wire splices ... Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > Third choice is at an existing splice. Mid span splices are evil, and > all of them will eventually fail, one way or another. I can't speak specifically to that product, but I've used screw-in products like that before and they...did not work worth extruded fecal matter. Not that I like the Scotchtap guillotines either; they work fine for a while, and if sized correctly they don't destroy the wire, but vibration and/or corrosion will eventually result in a failed connection. I use them in one application and one application only - Valentine 1 remote wiring adapters on cars that have ignition-switched power to something (sunroof, dome light) in the forward headliner area. In our driveway right now that means two E39 and one E53 BMW, and the Scotchtaps have been in two of them for 15 years without trouble. In other applications, no thanks. I've had to rip out and rewire several aftermarket alarm installations that were done with a forest of Scotchtaps. When I need to do a PERMANENT tap, I'll cut the wire, slip a piece of heatshrink over it, a butt-joint crimp sleeve (bare kind, not the insulated ones) and crimp it in place with an appropriate tool, adding a pigtail on one side. When necessary you can get stepped sleeves that are smaller on one side than the other. Then heatshrink, and put an appopriate connector on the pigtail. It's a hassle, but it's production-quality. John. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Aug 1 17:52:56 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE64B258D8D9 for ; Sat, 1 Aug 2015 17:52:56 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail.milleredp.com (fw.milleredp.com [198.144.208.110]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7155B258D6DA for ; Sat, 1 Aug 2015 17:52:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [10.1.2.100] ([::ffff:10.1.2.100]) (AUTH: PLAIN jem, TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,128bits,AES128-SHA) by mail.milleredp.com with ESMTPSA; Sat, 01 Aug 2015 16:52:11 -0700 id 00000000002800AD.0000000055BD5BAB.00002ACE To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <1804233A391A40F694D4960525807B75@StevePC> From: John Miller Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2015 16:51:46 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.1.0 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Electrical install questions Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > parallel with the studs (where that makes sense, of course), and needs > to be 1 1/4 away from the edge. If it can't be, it has to be > protected from nails by a plate, You mean perpendicular to the stud and if it goes through a hole in the stud w/o plate it needs to be min 1 1/4 from each face, correct? You can have Romex/NM nailed to a stud but you want it to go thru the hole as horizontally as possible. Also if my old info is still valid don't want to run parallel with any low-voltage circuits (Cat5/Cat6 or phone, etc.) within (?) distance so as not to induce 60Hz interference, want to maintain (12in?) clearance and cross LV circuits perpendicularly. John. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Aug 2 03:58:30 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6248B258445D for ; Sun, 2 Aug 2015 03:58:30 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cdptpa-oedge-vip.email.rr.com (cdptpa-outbound-snat.email.rr.com [107.14.166.230]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5E3A25805E4 for ; Sun, 2 Aug 2015 03:58:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [184.53.49.214] ([184.53.49.214:27912] helo=Meislaptop) by cdptpa-oedge01 (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.5.0.35861 r(Momo-dev:tip)) with ESMTP id FF/41-12226-2C9EDB55; Sun, 02 Aug 2015 09:58:28 +0000 From: "Randall" To: References: <55B6BEC2.1080800@att.net> <55BD58AD.3060300@milleredp.com> Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2015 02:58:18 -0700 Thread-Index: AdDMs3Ilbfzb4uH0S3uaYdJI3VfhYgAVZo0g Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Wire splices ... Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > When I need to do a PERMANENT tap, I'll cut the wire, slip a piece of > heatshrink over it That's my thought as well, except I don't generally bother with the crimped sleeve as long as there is a bit of slack available. Just do a Western Union splice between the two original wires, and wrap the new wire around behind one end of the splice; then solder and cover with heat shrink. Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Aug 2 11:22:35 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A68B2598914 for ; Sun, 2 Aug 2015 11:22:34 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-oi0-f41.google.com (mail-oi0-f41.google.com [209.85.218.41]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D4162598833 for ; Sun, 2 Aug 2015 11:19:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by oig1 with SMTP id 1so26397473oig.0 for ; Sun, 02 Aug 2015 10:19:42 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=l/2B6MTpffD5fIysB/OqRwhf37XheJ2QaOg4Tspvde8=; b=mD4zPwd6dBknx13fiO3tPdaKrbSO0tI2XYrWlvYxv4iGbur99B0GvIBroAUmj05Y47 bqNrp07KdQvsxIakbEfrdJYPqU0F5AY/54zsboawwr2Vb2ZRrtrWGRjWsawOTNWyvtFT 10H5fY7qLEpnFYRd0rQaD1GhLar5KEb+PIYpCceZu7vDBrUNjC4cAzyUcd31wWZXqXiv o3DJq2L2+ooT5ZkA/GwjOT0SE6+rYzdcG9LQlTRM5eXEGLjGiOcE3YKsA63Lajc8tW5G iuGNj9W5b9zxJzWRbCdEBb5YMZsvKxnJ0PVkHm+98izv0wxHfF2UQY3NprS72x9ODfBp yipA== s9mr12417476oif.39.1438535982378; Sun, 02 Aug 2015 10:19:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.227.131 with HTTP; Sun, 2 Aug 2015 10:19:42 -0700 (PDT) References: <55B6BEC2.1080800@att.net> <55BD58AD.3060300@milleredp.com> <532D3CA276C447B6A8633CD9FC68781C@Meislaptop> Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2015 12:19:42 -0500 From: Ronnie Day To: Randall Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Wire splices ... Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net The last car radio swap I did, I used Posi-Locks to connect the radio harness to the car harness adapter that came with the radio, an Alpine from Crutchfield. These are great. Much quicker and easier than soldering, and far better than crimp connectors. They're a two piece deal that screws together and work a little like a wire nut, but they form a far more secure connection. Plus they can be taken apart easily, if needed. They're available in a variety of styles and for different stranded wire gauges, from a variety of vendors. Not super cheap, but how much is your time worth and they work. RD On Sunday, August 2, 2015, Randall wrote: > > When I need to do a PERMANENT tap, I'll cut the wire, slip a piece of > > heatshrink over it > > That's my thought as well, except I don't generally bother with the crimped > sleeve as long as there is a bit of slack available. Just do a Western > Union splice between the two original wires, and wrap the new wire around > behind one end of the splice; then solder and cover with heat shrink. > > Randall > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ronnie.day@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 3 17:00:38 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AD03258964E for ; Mon, 3 Aug 2015 17:00:37 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ig0-f172.google.com (mail-ig0-f172.google.com [209.85.213.172]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CEE9258A08E for ; Mon, 3 Aug 2015 16:53:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by igbij6 with SMTP id ij6so63713946igb.1 for ; Mon, 03 Aug 2015 15:53:47 -0700 (PDT) h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=UI6gNDkO0LcGhxNockI4sFRijPdnXz/vATn4rHI+UXU=; b=Hudawe8Y9c0ULQ1K+692kkhh4bbnaUkTwfq6Ef4JNs/aiXwZtjNR1QPGfcBTyqXZ/n LTtTD2tWjyCzFdSNBhX3ymJ4E+wsDf3ok+Ge3UhkbJ1BujmXLEef2cAfMqxF7MpHN8l2 v+g5j5rxslDrdTzW+w2l88W0YeHJeJW4GbqjHrbryUfrxB9SZwE4FXpfQZnjolrvijW9 +EEeMapl9yWcI42iqTSbd/VgQVA9r9dJRjKaiQX2e1MdsmYZTvUCqjHGYBv0V2nlWPOy OrGmGiyQZ6/4Fz9naoY/SHzzbmkiAjkQLkpNCEa/S5Zx2vKgT+AeEp5xiF/nN052bhy0 IwbQ== Mon, 03 Aug 2015 15:53:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.104] (205-178-103-199.c3-0.stk-ubr1.chi-stk.il.cable.rcn.com. [205.178.103.199]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j73sm11141566ioi.44.2015.08.03.15.53.45 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 03 Aug 2015 15:53:45 -0700 (PDT) From: David Scheidt Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2015 17:53:44 -0500 References: <1804233A391A40F694D4960525807B75@StevePC> <55BD5B92.4070009@milleredp.com> To: John Miller Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Electrical install questions Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Aug 1, 2015, at 18:51, John Miller wrote: >> parallel with the studs (where that makes sense, of course), and needs >> to be 1 1/4 away from the edge. If it can't be, it has to be >> protected from nails by a plate, > > You mean perpendicular to the stud and if it goes through a hole in the stud w/o plate it needs to be min 1 1/4 from each face, correct? You can have Romex/NM nailed to a stud but you want it to go thru the hole as horizontally as possible. That too, but wires run along a framing member needs to be 1 1/4 inches from the edge or protected by a metal plate. (There's an exception for fishing after finishing. ). See nec 300-4 (d). > Also if my old info is still valid don't want to run parallel with any low-voltage circuits (Cat5/Cat6 or phone, etc.) within (?) distance so as not to induce 60Hz interference, want to maintain (12in?) clearance and cross LV circuits perpendicularly. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 3 21:27:29 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0F5C1801A37 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 2015 21:27:29 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from filter02.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net (unknown [199.224.80.229]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 772DA2588BB8 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 2015 21:09:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by filter02.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFED942CB28 for ; Tue, 4 Aug 2015 03:09:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from relay04.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net ([199.224.80.247]) by localhost (filter02.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net [199.224.80.229]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 75q04QNaclvV for ; Tue, 4 Aug 2015 03:08:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unknown [50.34.113.56]) by relay04.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id B14E02F8094 for ; Tue, 4 Aug 2015 03:08:56 +0000 (UTC) References: <55B6BEC2.1080800@att.net> <55BD58AD.3060300@milleredp.com> <532D3CA276C447B6A8633CD9FC68781C@Meislaptop> Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" From: Dave Cavanaugh Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2015 20:08:57 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.1.0 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Wire splices ... Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I haven't used them lately but I've had good luck with Posi-Locks, too. They really made a big hit in vintage motorcycle circles. On 8/2/2015 10:19 AM, Ronnie Day wrote: > The last car radio swap I did, I used Posi-Locks to connect the radio > harness to the car harness adapter that came with the radio, an Alpine from > Crutchfield. These are great. Much quicker and easier than soldering, and > far better than crimp connectors. > > They're a two piece deal that screws together and work a little like a wire > nut, but they form a far more secure connection. Plus they can be taken > apart easily, if needed. They're available in a variety of styles and for > different stranded wire gauges, from a variety of vendors. Not super cheap, > but how much is your time worth and they work. > > RD > > On Sunday, August 2, 2015, Randall wrote: > >>> When I need to do a PERMANENT tap, I'll cut the wire, slip a piece of >>> heatshrink over it >> That's my thought as well, except I don't generally bother with the crimped >> sleeve as long as there is a bit of slack available. Just do a Western >> Union splice between the two original wires, and wrap the new wire around >> behind one end of the splice; then solder and cover with heat shrink. >> >> Randall >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk@autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ronnie.day@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/cavanadd@frontier.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Aug 8 00:09:05 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5726D25B0547 for ; Sat, 8 Aug 2015 00:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mailfront2.g2host.com (mailfront2.g2host.com [209.98.94.162]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B39EC258E931 for ; Fri, 7 Aug 2015 18:02:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [76.164.52.117] (account arvidj@visi.com HELO [192.168.1.48]) by visi.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.11) with ESMTPSA id 32631000 for shop-talk@autox.team.net; Fri, 07 Aug 2015 18:34:03 -0500 References: <55B6BEC2.1080800@att.net> <55BD58AD.3060300@milleredp.com> <532D3CA276C447B6A8633CD9FC68781C@Meislaptop> To: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" From: Arvid Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2015 18:33:58 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.1.0 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Wire splices ... Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thanks to all offered suggestions. I've decided to give the Posi-Taps a try. Initial reaction is "boy they sure are expensive". I'll let you know what my installation experience is as soon as I get my car back from the body shop. Arvid _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Aug 8 15:29:55 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F9AB2588041 for ; Sat, 8 Aug 2015 15:29:55 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm24.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (nm24.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [216.39.62.55]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E90BD2584F8A for ; Sat, 8 Aug 2015 14:53:21 -0600 (MDT) s=s1024; t=1439067201; bh=Rt+PCNZPJGlzUN3C7w7xe22mReDp6TEDU5ZDe2qe19k=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=PnqQXhYa/c+iCUS7aNwg53jOqyltI+JImSi4haQ3L3x/ZIYIWId9MbjwWYL34KG/GJygGs8/RBNn6N4q04f9YiRUHtTt4dcdLvC28KICEaYr6Jp+PJbsyMmHai6C3JUoFseIvJDIrU/jqWZ554vfIQFzHCUUpMzTnYfzsvmCJZg= Received: from [216.39.60.166] by nm24.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Aug 2015 20:53:21 -0000 Received: from [67.195.23.148] by tm2.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Aug 2015 20:53:21 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp120.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Aug 2015 20:53:21 -0000 RN9GvYZF0jTI5qKLvmf.0xi9pzd5nuiWrCx8B_6kH5gBpsorljHJ_2jVmY2s 9mNn_JhQUqhs0.fJgw5rc5SHsHFt6Lbq6lMeo.owq5cUH_mBs0kT8.u6flxa a.wLmjMLSTNEzzB8XVSiMd8GdnLh2GPZF1sukRgIJpsdJgTCtHuAEFooW7iA 8IXCLN7eiy6f_Kn3c8lcNg1UM5JevJgJRh4gYqfuJHsv8E9J.13iM69pIuOP ChAZ6DsA.15sAMzVqFj5mg9IGT53x_9dmOxCi0YH5BDOX7nQ7Ga93wABrBJL P5gqWOP2EJFUGxevMldQBq3rj1j8dlgffwl8cqZm96Evuil6gFF6U7BuSQUr kKqCdA9VGJCR3NRsVValccnJfwDbH6mznOdsklwAFdu3tUQ9pqgiZ9x.tiV7 yPgdoii_4oGr8ATOzomu9ODzxSkuOCl1viL5nu4ziozFtPUTr08oJ7bnO03x pEyTrVQ-- From: "john niolon" To: "shop-talk" Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 15:53:11 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] entending home network Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net things are sure quiet here on shop-talk... guess itbs just too hot to type. so... herebs a question Using Uverse for home network... wireless works in most of the house but outside the brick walls is dead... I want to extend to the shop... 50 feet from the house and roughly another 75 across the house to the gateway... I plan on fishing a cat-5 cable under the driveway to the shop then I can plug in my laptop in the shop... Then I let my mind get idle and it started thinking on itbs own (dangerous) Can I add another wireless router (a Belkin I used before U-verse)) at the shop end of the cat 5 and use it to connect my phone, ipad and laptop wireless in the shop ?? will that be the same wireless I have now ?? or will it be a second one I must log into ?? will they conflict ??? tell me Ibm crazy. john _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Aug 9 08:53:09 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD2E825848C6 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 08:53:08 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from haybaler.sackheads.org (haybaler.sackheads.org [140.186.190.103]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D86025802D5 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 08:48:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.sackheads.org [127.0.0.1]) by haybaler.sackheads.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1502285A3; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 10:48:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from haybaler.sackheads.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (haybaler.sackheads.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HzhTcqOzqvuQ; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 10:48:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by haybaler.sackheads.org (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 95BC628596; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 10:48:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.4] (cpe-74-138-152-195.kya.res.rr.com [74.138.152.195]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jimmie@sackheads.org) by haybaler.sackheads.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5505B28479; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 10:48:12 -0400 (EDT) To: john niolon , shop-talk References: <04BCA75EF1864C5A85E8DA4B68C20239@UserPC> From: Jimmie Mayfield Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 10:48:11 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.1.0 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] entending home network Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net You can certainly do that. You could configure the second router to operate as a run-of-the-mill access point. That is, you'd configure the second router to use the same SSID and same WPA key but you'd disable its DHCP server and firewall (and any other routing services...NAT, QoS, etc). In this configuration, your existing gateway/router will provide DHCP and NAT services for your entire network which is usually what you want. In my experience, you'll want to plug the new ethernet cable from the house into one of the LAN ports on the second router instead of the WAN port but this might vary from device to device. These days most wireless clients are smart enough to assume that since both radios are broadcasting the same SSID that they're on the same network and will seamless hop between them if signal quality is better. So you could walk from your house to your shop and back without any disruptions. But before you fish cables under the driveway, you might want to look into directional WIFI antennas. You can even build one yourself. 50 (or 125) feet to your shop is nothing. On 08/08/15 16:53, john niolon wrote: > things are sure quiet here on shop-talk... guess itbs just too hot to > type. > > so... herebs a question > > Using Uverse for home network... wireless works in most of the house but > outside the brick walls is dead... I want to extend to the shop... 50 feet > from the house and roughly another 75 across the house to the gateway... I > plan on fishing a cat-5 cable under the driveway to the shop then I can plug > in my laptop in the shop... Then I let my mind get idle and it started > thinking on itbs own (dangerous) Can I add another wireless router (a > Belkin I used before U-verse)) at the shop end of the cat 5 and use it to > connect my phone, ipad and laptop wireless in the shop ?? > > will that be the same wireless I have now ?? or will it be a second one I > must log into ?? will they conflict ??? tell me Ibm crazy. > > john > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mayfield+shoptalk@sackheads.org _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Aug 9 09:58:17 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A662C2584F28 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 09:58:16 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-oi0-f53.google.com (mail-oi0-f53.google.com [209.85.218.53]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DF2925844A5 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 09:54:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by oiev193 with SMTP id v193so46584148oie.3 for ; Sun, 09 Aug 2015 08:54:11 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=U8GuQda8/QExb9qzBjy6bYunvUTtRFwgHTZ1Jm11BD0=; b=ZnGdCYKoIVySmBY4jvSDXkYXoepdsiWNqC9vUAHT00xz8UhHmUS/PdX5Ja3A+2235L hTtK5d56flN6avgpkQfpGvof1YAgAw7h2YNoHprUwujHkOYftxQAvVngulLONoTaVrlG b6QIO55MwT+MHOZ8Pasw3o4CNMZx/YvKu61GfoZm6bN9/B8Er0v21SIGq41CGUEOidaB 3ICgLZ0hqXdv4Je4e8H9+XwQc5qg43ZInj3qJxza7J274dAQ9E3m7rJmZGsN7wNc1Y6a fN6nkdo7v/9UuN+M+gdDfjPCGpocgSRfKoSpAzJJbM1FvVgJMJeN+F/hlC7xlyTbcW22 9OAg== f9mr15125790oia.126.1439135650922; Sun, 09 Aug 2015 08:54:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.207.131 with HTTP; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 08:54:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 10:54:10 -0500 From: Ronnie Day To: Shop Talk List Subject: [Shop-talk] Garage Ideas Website? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net What's the name of the site that's been mentioned here on the list frequently? _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Aug 9 10:16:44 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E9D72588E22 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 10:16:43 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-wi0-f178.google.com (mail-wi0-f178.google.com [209.85.212.178]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB6A3258807F for ; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 10:01:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by wibxm9 with SMTP id xm9so121064273wib.1 for ; Sun, 09 Aug 2015 09:01:30 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=AqVQCf9LaCYzUv3L0jRfmWb32F8BzzGAqjIPPs2zlO8=; b=0bOj0GbXBCUwaNvop3hmSKn5kV4hIjlprA5pLZWU5+tNbP9tVMqsUTQzr9YQkVxN21 F56tKWwIqoS6CfXbgRZUNuxB86N7ZtwpCc7vVNmrrY9E7V80lLdw2xbMOk/EWF3l/024 WWoePFJnlF6P2HZUhcItFUkLmBmPozhxY1KV1hScg7V7ROK8yyWvK9SIBna+R7P+lHXf qxGsN4m/fzPXmgjmb644rDqCLod1QCcqlne9PUUV4SKygr/UbovjBJsQSRSnDVP8MX9P DhOoRtFnqGnLnHv25on+g/Ep7THLpLRT6L/U3V4cgRwJB+gjQ4/797Bxb6pSZzQPXe4F 79Lw== h2mr16928964wiv.72.1439136090772; Sun, 09 Aug 2015 09:01:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.28.43.135 with HTTP; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 09:01:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.28.43.135 with HTTP; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 09:01:30 -0700 (PDT) References: Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 12:01:30 -0400 From: Larry Spector To: Ronnie Day Cc: shop-talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Garage Ideas Website? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net http://www.garagejournal.com/ Look at the various forums there for ideas. -Larry On Aug 9, 2015 11:59 AM, "Ronnie Day" wrote: > What's the name of the site that's been mentioned here on the list > frequently? > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/lspector@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Aug 9 10:18:03 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 979A82588FAE for ; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 10:18:02 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from itonami.pair.com (itonami.pair.com [209.68.2.178]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F14B258807F for ; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 10:01:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by itonami.pair.com (Postfix, from userid 3198) id B81818FEFF; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 12:01:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by itonami.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B77A68FEFC; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 12:01:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 12:01:40 -0400 (EDT) From: David Hillman To: Ronnie Day References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.02 (BSF 1266 2009-07-14) Cc: Shop Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Garage Ideas Website? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Sun, 9 Aug 2015, Ronnie Day wrote: > What's the name of the site that's been mentioned here on the list > frequently? garagejournal.com and there goes the rest of your weekend ;) -- David Hillman _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Aug 9 10:19:30 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 548AB25890E0 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 10:19:30 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-io0-f174.google.com (mail-io0-f174.google.com [209.85.223.174]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 790632580160 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 10:10:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by iodb91 with SMTP id b91so90180198iod.1 for ; Sun, 09 Aug 2015 09:11:00 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=pEvVg4t/FvxK+uXthTpMbuxVSb6VoeQ5JYUL14ysJ7o=; b=kbTC1FTv8UaW5ceHohem1aqHe06UHmQlkEJ5Zh18DCGTHOg5kU3GirOdksoliqHntW sapu2/Z5nYyf8uop+zNAFFRCWRdrklwY1KNOF/GIlbJc7e42bAI8WjnlId5uAgSZizsB lo3ANgMchyXNKQeLY5zO/j/5w+hVqtxlcPYNDJUoyQdt4Mvo1MgcVWZkTqInNbIPF1xq +sKVxXYvXywHBlAHZDxSj8hrzDR+6rUHHyRNQwMHUioOVOjQQ9BZhsXt1HOinUqClSNi YI6wLaFOujFY77/Mlml2Xwl/9sR+yqggrhZkMiyXH9rPlhfEE2YrIf4NRJSIyEN20moJ 8BNA== i141mr16414897ioi.59.1439136660626; Sun, 09 Aug 2015 09:11:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.79.68.66 with HTTP; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 09:11:00 -0700 (PDT) References: Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 12:11:00 -0400 From: Paul Parkanzky To: Ronnie Day Cc: Shop Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Garage Ideas Website? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net The forums at www.garagejournal.com? -Paul On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 11:54 AM, Ronnie Day wrote: > What's the name of the site that's been mentioned here on the list > frequently? _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Aug 9 10:47:10 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31D84258915F for ; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 10:47:10 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm8-vm1.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm8-vm1.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [216.109.114.176]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 838EC2584D97 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 10:29:55 -0600 (MDT) s=s1024; t=1439137795; bh=xpi5MQtQflWYNRVYJW20LXW3JNRZQcJoka/BotRVER0=; h=Reply-To:Subject:References:To:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=Ipo4LORTBX2LnAemB5ecvBkEUQ9M8sdM0wEUmFXFFiIBrELlDZcWVPZ94UOYLPShVinXO/8J9drDZa8XElD6e+hW53x9f6YmUtaLYP8NycYLR8M8vQaHjMiyRNVef3hXCcEBfUbj9Od8O+d9n+Lj+G7MXfbQxLntDzwYi2a+bXk= Received: from [66.196.81.157] by nm8.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Aug 2015 16:29:55 -0000 Received: from [98.138.226.241] by tm3.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Aug 2015 16:29:55 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp112.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Aug 2015 16:29:55 -0000 qRhMKzpBW2YD62YYlx2ZVjsPxep_sXEbwbkZ3Rx0kHtCBU_gHRL5KVyO_7RF vkZuVOBwarumiFjYX9aGreCUwQGRlEsqLBZt5MTBfU0t634r5.2QJKrh9h87 qcU.3jNcxee3kJrLkKd5kw81H0qI99yJTxz3Qek157nLs6yB35eILnFfdsgG QL6rzHLKgW.DrOYLdq59WJDpDI.VeP2BmfgDUQk1mJUqyQiOoWc757yxjEZG 0PtzK8USK2.KgemaeycW_TQEkLGB.1AEbdDjsbaq2JuO0gWDxwLwUBmJQFnn b0ss.PEr1gYx_cpLHJPf8OzfI38AalQu4j7RFJCTKA5y2uGwnBojK1QnQbNr Na_ibt0b7FcZ_5d39FyjVM4j20Gw7he1hyka54ZjwPQPrRgHy4elWKPuH8Zp YoDb8TFH7whno2FwvL3ybGrPyij3ZgPEmzg1K_B9_ND1hcq76RPE4RIRV6Mh ORcwxCXecBMfwng-- References: <04BCA75EF1864C5A85E8DA4B68C20239@UserPC> <55C7682B.9040906@sackheads.org> To: shop-talk@autox.team.net From: steve hochschild Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 11:29:55 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.1.0 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] entending home network Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net What Jimmie said. I just did this. I bought a $30 router, configured it as below, works great. And since there are no walls, I bet the signal will reach without trenching, without a directional "Pringles can" antenna, or anything; I was able to just plug it in, set it in the window, and I was up. You want to make sure you match your existing router's type, "N" or whatever, as the routers will drop down all transmissions down to the slowest device on the network. On 8/9/2015 9:48 AM, Jimmie Mayfield wrote: > You can certainly do that. You could configure the second router to > operate as a run-of-the-mill access point. That is, you'd configure > the second router to use the same SSID and same WPA key but you'd > disable its DHCP server and firewall (and any other routing > services...NAT, QoS, etc). In this configuration, your existing > gateway/router will provide DHCP and NAT services for your entire > network which is usually what you want. In my experience, you'll want > to plug the new ethernet cable from the house into one of the LAN > ports on the second router instead of the WAN port but this might vary > from device to device. > > These days most wireless clients are smart enough to assume that since > both radios are broadcasting the same SSID that they're on the same > network and will seamless hop between them if signal quality is > better. So you could walk from your house to your shop and back > without any disruptions. > > But before you fish cables under the driveway, you might want to look > into directional WIFI antennas. You can even build one yourself. 50 > (or 125) feet to your shop is nothing. > > > On 08/08/15 16:53, john niolon wrote: >> things are sure quiet here on shop-talk... guess itbs just too hot to >> type. >> >> so... herebs a question >> >> Using Uverse for home network... wireless works in most of the house but >> outside the brick walls is dead... I want to extend to the shop... 50 >> feet >> from the house and roughly another 75 across the house to the >> gateway... I >> plan on fishing a cat-5 cable under the driveway to the shop then I >> can plug >> in my laptop in the shop... Then I let my mind get idle and it started >> thinking on itbs own (dangerous) Can I add another wireless router (a >> Belkin I used before U-verse)) at the shop end of the cat 5 and use >> it to >> connect my phone, ipad and laptop wireless in the shop ?? >> >> will that be the same wireless I have now ?? or will it be a second >> one I >> must log into ?? will they conflict ??? tell me Ibm crazy. >> >> john >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk@autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mayfield+shoptalk@sackheads.org > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/steve@hochschild.org _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Aug 9 10:48:42 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A34782589217 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 10:48:41 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ob0-f174.google.com (mail-ob0-f174.google.com [209.85.214.174]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6938E2584D97 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 10:30:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by obbfr1 with SMTP id fr1so72207943obb.1 for ; Sun, 09 Aug 2015 09:30:53 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=dWgJHb3zfxx386SGsIkCJ9kgr5QPTbdk/0J5dlMEThA=; b=zBZUN0gT6G5IDKEpCD0hvHvB8fNGjUSWRIpfzGoNf6yhiXbQU1PGemJ4gznWuSJNj7 F1LaogoIIujGLtFpVYEZG8Vb2uHFjncnC1BOfACY8U4cDQoHX6rVnkt0zQKq5wiX2HdK F6Ccd/04MK1EHyV1PIOuAHmCLk7Hz1aP6jqzj+gRol5dMyGB6Lrf/j6KqdCjZMtL2CyX 5UcXvU0JBcCtk0tDfbZ+muuEVP4zqBWeExGyrLEE9rXN7wYAD3/buaG2+5SZERAHtOzF bCUqBn6vGVN3kYtBKMcrlHW08uSO06ZCZPAGErjDLa+sa67aZVQDZSYxdarIctKE76F0 Uhjg== rz10mr15765501oeb.4.1439137852941; Sun, 09 Aug 2015 09:30:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.207.131 with HTTP; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 09:30:52 -0700 (PDT) References: Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 11:30:52 -0500 From: Ronnie Day To: Paul Parkanzky Cc: Shop Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Garage Ideas Website? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net That's it, folks. Thanks! On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 11:11 AM, Paul Parkanzky wrote: > The forums at www.garagejournal.com? > > -Paul > > On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 11:54 AM, Ronnie Day wrote: > >> What's the name of the site that's been mentioned here on the list >> frequently? _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Aug 9 11:06:14 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51EE925892A4 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 11:06:14 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm15-vm10.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm15-vm10.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [216.109.115.41]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22F992584A40 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 11:03:27 -0600 (MDT) s=s1024; t=1439139807; bh=lACO7jUQKwwP8yQn0dT3UMJEruo1OJGOhToYCWBSodw=; h=Reply-To:Subject:References:To:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=sOjQH+YF/43cVQ+SoHTrGGZeTmtZlys1Rxyv7d+Oc8sQHRz/4pPRexeg1Xom/chNgJYS9xrV698WH6w2ve/NsyFk0fRWUGNpZ7AbyIBci2VoCsO9M6zi+oTvRPHFBdeIWjVD6lIwGAgkUVxFv6zp0bkjsqC9f1uiXrYv28Ahn+s= Received: from [66.196.81.165] by nm15.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Aug 2015 17:03:27 -0000 Received: from [98.138.104.96] by tm11.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Aug 2015 17:03:27 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp116.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Aug 2015 17:03:27 -0000 4VJR2tNobf55zeuO73cHOMzt0bTkhrZf5UcIEGdBHhn5lKfUMWdqOcehDZGI 1skvRjFjLYmSPIEmhfy4fXl3Ns0Nd92prlfCQb7jYck08uPVjrJpqp9qYcTg ux.J8HFrshIryNuG.KECznzMtMwGaKs1XjN47ggVyFbqqSb3VCBs8_dH.ine vdroMczqHfsdWmnJUKnkYSPyj8TD_arhniQ.tnc2qNv9STrbm6I6rs2Y9IPm W.o.cka_nwBK72QaW5O7PFNDFA9R7y1rr.XEB5pe7GmKtzi_HOMlw6QhwfQG hm4CM8zwDwgzShzuGIh.GnucVjfXKwKbqDzz7q_uOrazWWL30H9JcyTuCcCw 6ZKLaVNQ9U9DPLG7GxttGW99Ic.8M6TbToSybZ4r3v9Zds72kNEmV._pBGvc GDzVMVSgNyZUkhvI8pv8Ori1WB5BgM0j.z.hPoZ1xdJUGknr2KjagOqZ.Jsm lzmBG1YqRUJVQiDj6yCNp1iTdED4F2_cy.ZIDPUbF2HyGJw-- References: <55B6BEC2.1080800@att.net> To: steve@hochschild.org, shop-talk From: steve hochschild Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 12:03:28 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.1.0 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] barn door questions Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I appreciate these warnings that my door was too narrow, I was all caught up in the barn door issue and completely forgot that I was making a garage door! So it is now 11', and I will need a triple track to hang the six 2' wide panels, I think. The building is 16' wide, the 11' opening is centered, leaving 2 1/2' on each side, so six 2' panels with 3" overlap on each side. More info: I had to shoehorn this into a very confined space, so ended up with a two story plan on a 16' x 32' slab. Shed roof, 2/12/ pitch, galvalume standing seam roof. Exterior stairs to the second floor. First floor is 12' useable height, second floor ceiling is 6' to 9'. 512 sq' each level, AC upstairs from a (yet to be purchased) window unit installed through the wall. Double doors out the back, full light service doors at the top and bottom of the stairway, upstairs level has a big picture window over the garage door, and another on the high side wall, 1st fl has a big window under the stairway. Security is not really an issue. No plumbing at all. I need about 60 amps for my welders, the lift, and the AC, so I think that I will have to get a second meter. The plan is to build it to the studs, and then get someone else to immediately do the insulation and drywall upstairs. I am leaning towards the cheapest laminate flooring upstairs at the same time, but am open to other suggestions. Planning standard epoxy on the shop floor. I paid $6500 for the slab, with a friend doing it. This was a comedy of sorts, as we had to pump the concrete and none of us had done that before. Then I had 3 different contractors bail on me. Austin is booming, there is so much work that they are all too busy doing other more lucrative projects, and the second floor meant that all the handyman level guys got scared off. So finally I went to Tuff Shed. Is this blasphemy on this list? They gave me a price of under $30/sq ft, $31k. They spent this week pre-building some of the panels, the stairway, and anything that can fit on a flatbed. They are starting on-site tomorrow and they say it will be done by Friday... So this is the last chance to correct any other oversights I have made. Appreciate the help so far! Steve in Bee Cave, outside of Austin, but in the county, so no permits required... On 7/31/2015 10:41 PM, David Scheidt wrote: > On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 6:29 PM, steve hochschild > wrote: >> Look, a real shop being built and discussed on shoptalk! >> >> I am about to begin building my dream shop: 1024 sq ft on two floors, metal >> shed roof, exterior stairway, and lots of other fabulous features that I >> will talk about later. >> >> The 1st floor has a ceiling height of 12', so I can roll my travel trailer >> in and work on it out of the hot Texas sun, and I need the full height. >> >> I propose to fabricate a pair of 4' wide by 12' high barn doors, to cover an >> 8'wide x 12' high opening. > You want an opening larger than 8 feet! 8 feet is a pain to get a car > in through (espcially, if you have to push!). Go 10 feet, 12 if you > can. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Aug 9 15:45:18 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C10782589C8C for ; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 15:45:17 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from BAY004-OMC2S3.hotmail.com (bay004-omc2s3.hotmail.com [65.54.190.78]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CF08258051B for ; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 15:29:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from na01-by2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com ([65.54.190.123]) by BAY004-OMC2S3.hotmail.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.23008); Sun, 9 Aug 2015 14:29:25 -0700 Received: from CY1PR13MB0502.namprd13.prod.outlook.com (10.164.70.144) by CY1PR13MB0503.namprd13.prod.outlook.com (10.164.70.145) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.225.19; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 21:29:24 +0000 Received: from CY1PR13MB0503.namprd13.prod.outlook.com (10.164.70.145) by CY1PR13MB0502.namprd13.prod.outlook.com (10.164.70.144) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.225.19; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 21:29:23 +0000 Received: from CY1PR13MB0503.namprd13.prod.outlook.com ([10.164.70.145]) by CY1PR13MB0503.namprd13.prod.outlook.com ([10.164.70.145]) with mapi id 15.01.0225.018; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 21:29:23 +0000 From: "Tim ." To: Shop Talk Thread-Topic: Optima batteries Thread-Index: AQHQ0upuay65AKYLsUuuwCv0BjZ0Vg== Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 21:29:23 +0000 Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=tims_datsun_stuff@outlook.com; x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-tmn: [NSGxdSNu6B0GOp0Sd8y/i7oEK/7GWUCR] x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; CY1PR13MB0502; 5:7lxIN+D22rpAXw4FEgiCuNkZPVelbUrd2vt5Ge9cQVPbQRVADO6rWHriCsqCo3MBxNaeqwmu1XQQLCwFJVW6aikKr5Xkd9kD9v+TD+v3gnbYGwmmnIRA4E/UrOAcc4I3vOFTrg27F2EFKtOe0DyU3w==; 24:zA5z0wXQnpyLcSYOguc5eGiZH9LMjvCf8lDWyD7YIkkjb1su+sd3sel7htJVGJ1emvjQLXK9VNCbM475l6/SPlbXxib5sroELhAjVXdsyg8=; 20:6tBQm7wVDy7SinwGHIiZAzuCb8RvJrutdmtlP63j7B/qo0FxnnqmH+a5gqJeVmzmQphu+9p5+l9ZeRWogGx3uA== x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:CY1PR13MB0502; UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:CY1PR13MB0503; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(432015011)(601004)(5005006)(3002001); SRVR:CY1PR13MB0502; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:CY1PR13MB0502; x-forefront-prvs: 0663390E1B x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(7070003)(6009001)(199003)(189002)(87936001)(221733001)(19627405001)(50986999)(2656002)(5003600100002)(86362001)(229853001)(92566002)(46102003)(2900100001)(105586002)(10400500002)(102836002)(68736005)(5002640100001)(189998001)(101416001)(106356001)(16236675004)(62966003)(87572001)(64706001)(106116001)(77096005)(54356999)(558084003)(4001540100001)(5001920100001)(450100001)(40100003)(33656002)(99286002)(19625215002)(110136002)(81156007)(107886002)(74316001)(5001860100001)(97736004)(5001960100002)(76576001)(5001830100001)(122556002)(77156002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1901; SCL:1; SRVR:CY1PR13MB0502; H:CY1PR13MB0503.namprd13.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: outlook.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:23 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM 2:flvG/79szVM2wKMNA0CLAlBe5cxkaCtabGpkxST4U6fO7xZQJnFORXuckmmLht9PPzwf1bUXZLV6G93BQETAPA9bGa+WRoKeU9IWvMvaX+Lj50B4iRX4Fgm8UrC64/wiWU9R9B/4tYhJNlHybEzSIVzZVB+U0vDJ+ZLV1C4MwEA=; 3:VFex+quJJhXvnkAdh4dFmGd0dR0QALJMlPGo+3X3MAvddurhqYYmNk5UZRw+VdrzOH49IJCjn1nsGqlHLXRWD6GnxpDnQltpX+eh2vw67NIcCX6Hl5XclVu7iR183OQBni+CFdRDQDGB4yEqLpSjJQ==; 25:6UYKFOEUBMjM18wuLlHSaCgYC9JHaE5/g2hlIUUa7Q9x+ebxWYff/uPewZkt/ZUtYt+EU/jo/G5CK/rgHWEzIgLikLBM3QYE89NG0VkXv3i/gWvrT1I2O0Bi3kdxGLbzFDBRorM+LNpF6hkUJi8nWKRqRHyWluOxwJJODHmbrBHTVLYr79IOqC2dHH2zAmE/WGjOrs0x8gw7gCaaR8JJ85UfAcP5Px2jwHUrwGN5gKEGey/I1ITgRnz/Oz219VeO7gqH6PBTZkVuFv26v20fDw==; 23:wxYevx4M1JgNBfY014/U557fpB9hugyJtwzU1IQKCdIFwjKMYVdalPnlO49Y1CN0q+m27HWdyl05hQAPjvfSvAg1gS7qtLx42tMVHst3fTD6sfM6Pszz3FyHlHkWV+ZQWnGsyia0A7TyU4IS5PLGsZ8bOro4oND4vN6UOCjhXgk= FILETIME=[76E0AB40:01D0D2EA] Subject: [Shop-talk] Optima batteries Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I've read that you have to have a special charger to charge this type of battery but I cannot find that information anymore. Can I put a Batter Tender trickle charger on a yellow top? Thanks clueless in WI tim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Aug 9 16:14:03 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17D6125879BE for ; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 16:14:03 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-io0-f180.google.com (mail-io0-f180.google.com [209.85.223.180]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E29F2585B09 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 15:49:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by ioii16 with SMTP id i16so153503212ioi.0 for ; Sun, 09 Aug 2015 14:49:21 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=Xg4ESvmY4eJitYqVOmWJ2UtSnmdgskQczZgSCFTlft4=; b=i2Xw3KFRsI+GpB49LVHoC5WGGgNd6UYfkdjy0EZD+MeXvAlQTNROpMxKaF6BBy/o4D sfQ3Cl/SOTUHbKN1o18IgKBMhFPz7mWk0mtxhKzt37CGGujR4ztlIJZqyGoOqNEFbLgZ XbadNDsLAimojRPgn+fpbryzJHxd0YUxP+LqD6KVxN6tioosNFbhPrYKGVhJtO8wQ0DZ t5IJIZHYc1QcYUsVHMML9qeTz7QraHGKsIPpuF/wdrnL4UxBEknbxEYDbcCKg0siOTK/ p19MxxJQWhs5uNxhXJpMuad7LWcmOsUaVkN0/oq/MsMbBke5XdwhvBOdsHKbmESDZww9 wJ4w== i141mr17187537ioi.59.1439156961872; Sun, 09 Aug 2015 14:49:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.79.68.66 with HTTP; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 14:49:21 -0700 (PDT) References: Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 17:49:21 -0400 From: Paul Parkanzky To: "Tim ." Cc: Shop Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Optima batteries Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net There is a specific Battery Tender model for gel-cell batteries. This is what I use on mine: http://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tender-021-0156-Charger-Model/dp/B000NCOKQK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1439156949&sr=8-1&keywords=battery+tender+plus+gel+cell -Paul On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 5:29 PM, Tim . wrote: > I've read that you have to have a special charger to charge this type of > battery but I cannot find that information anymore. > > > Can I put a Batter Tender trickle charger on a yellow top? > > > Thanks > > > clueless in WI > > tim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Aug 9 17:45:04 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D2DC2580732 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 17:45:04 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from SNT004-OMC2S18.hotmail.com (snt004-omc2s18.hotmail.com [65.55.90.93]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54D7425802D4 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 16:57:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com ([65.55.90.73]) by SNT004-OMC2S18.hotmail.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.23008); Sun, 9 Aug 2015 15:57:51 -0700 Received: from CY1PR13MB0503.namprd13.prod.outlook.com (10.164.70.145) by CY1PR13MB0504.namprd13.prod.outlook.com (10.164.70.146) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.225.19; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 22:57:50 +0000 Received: from CY1PR13MB0503.namprd13.prod.outlook.com ([10.164.70.145]) by CY1PR13MB0503.namprd13.prod.outlook.com ([10.164.70.145]) with mapi id 15.01.0225.018; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 22:57:50 +0000 From: "Tim ." To: Shop Talk Thread-Topic: [Shop-talk] Optima batteries Thread-Index: AQHQ0upuay65AKYLsUuuwCv0BjZ0Vp4ENKqAgAASzuU= Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 22:57:49 +0000 References: , Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=tims_datsun_stuff@outlook.com; x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-tmn: [7rn/IwIZo+4eui74Id5obH3ddf5pkS8u] x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; CY1PR13MB0504; 5:HPIF2TJlebns/mMnx8MUv3TVp+Fhlh7ZSR+FoquWkq7wUFD87MSlGkNTZaFSfZanjz9mIvh9VWHtPtC2XGPHzFqxeYqblyVVacqBYwCpd2y00jRBiKeD8pt4Jx3WYbpuzhQNifUMfM+uKc9HQRvlqw==; 24:klJkSxN98eXsglx/nWpCIABt+OnjT4S7+deHfid1F6BIUpUaPeBVYUKA1vrP5WARrSxeWfkBib9Zt8LObZtLA6tRqNiYp/NG0U6EnEiuTEc=; 20:rB5gWG9zsADdCE696n4DMbjWVgQ8dAVIyWPGVnvEOvSgEaYe+k6tvPSywL1qHVz06r0vCVMCreM3DaqEL+3+iA== x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CY1PR13MB0504; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(432015011)(601004)(5005006)(3002001); SRVR:CY1PR13MB0504; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:CY1PR13MB0504; x-forefront-prvs: 0663390E1B x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(7070003)(107245004)(189002)(199003)(377454003)(52314003)(24454002)(102836002)(68736005)(10400500002)(46102003)(86362001)(33656002)(92566002)(106116001)(2900100001)(19625215002)(5002640100001)(2656002)(81156007)(189998001)(54356999)(40100003)(122556002)(101416001)(87936001)(4001540100001)(76176999)(5001960100002)(87572001)(50986999)(77156002)(106356001)(16236675004)(110136002)(15975445007)(107886002)(77096005)(105586002)(19627405001)(2950100001)(62966003)(19617315012)(99286002)(5001920100001)(19580395003)(74316001)(5003600100002)(76576001)(19580405001)(5001830100001)(64706001)(5001860100001)(450100001)(97736004); DIR:OUT; SFP:1901; SCL:1; SRVR:CY1PR13MB0504; H:CY1PR13MB0503.namprd13.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: outlook.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:23 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM FILETIME=[D1C6D140:01D0D2F6] Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Optima batteries Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net too funny...I never saw my OP but have received two replies. Anyway, the replies are 1-1 as far as use a normal trickle or use a specific. Anyone else? Thanks ________________________________ From: Paul Parkanzky Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2015 4:49 PM To: Tim . Cc: Shop Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Optima batteries There is a specific Battery Tender model for gel-cell batteries. This is what I use on mine: http://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tender-021-0156-Charger-Model/dp/B000NCOKQK/ref =sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1439156949&sr=8-1&keywords=battery+tender+plus+gel+cell -Paul On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 5:29 PM, Tim . I've read that you have to have a special charger to charge this type of battery but I cannot find that information anymore. Can I put a Batter Tender trickle charger on a yellow top? Thanks clueless in WI tim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 10 04:47:52 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C42252589CD7 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 2015 04:47:52 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from omr-m016e.mx.aol.com (omr-m016e.mx.aol.com [204.29.186.16]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED91C2580117 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 2015 04:16:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtaomg-mcd01.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-mcd01.mx.aol.com [172.26.223.207]) by omr-m016e.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 0AC0D3800088; Mon, 10 Aug 2015 06:16:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-moa03c.mail.aol.com (core-moa03.mail.aol.com [172.27.97.13]) by mtaomg-mcd01.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id C53F438000083; Mon, 10 Aug 2015 06:16:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 71.14.188.235 by webprd-a28.mail.aol.com (10.72.57.51) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 10 Aug 2015 06:16:50 -0400 Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 06:16:50 -0400 From: Dave To: tims_datsun_stuff@outlook.com, shop-talk@autox.team.net x-aol-global-disposition: G s=20150623; t=1439201811; bh=2g8zoAPsWTJuPPNmAynx/OyyIfFbLfZHpvlV+iJmI+8=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=WRaEyP9/tXYjMpORHzhpUgkYMrvdhLUE7nB9Zk6+4GND2tACj7/JrDAW5bOSihtAg BpIb5jWt8tyxhEHx8t280G3zpPtB7ElY5Kgg7Yr6r15sTbP3v3vjBF7FJhxBDEBFrr yc3ChhuFW5HIiUfiQ6lnJ0gaRr45uJVeXJ2/f9Kc= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1adfcf55c87a121baa Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Optima batteries Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Interesting. I saw the original but I saw no responses. I've run Optima batteries for 15 years. Rarely have I used a charger with a specific setting for AGM batteries but then I rarely use an external charger. When I do, it is just overnight. The regulator in the alternator doesn't know the difference yet I regularly get 7 - 8 years out of a battery with regular driving. I have used the trickle charger from Horrible Freight for years with good results (non-automotive but still AGM batteries) but then there was an incidence in Dallas where (apparently) the regulator in the trickle charger failed and the resulting accumulation of hydrogen gas ignited causing a fire that destroyed the house and two vintage automobiles. That said I would have no problem using a trickle charger but if you are going to leave it unattended for an extended period of time I would use a wall wart timer and set it to an hour a day. I'd do the same with any automatic charger. Back to lurk mode. Dave Massey -----Original Message----- From: Tim . To: Shop Talk Sent: Sun, Aug 9, 2015 6:45 pm Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Optima batteries too funny...I never saw my OP but have received two replies. Anyway, the replies are 1-1 as far as use a normal trickle or use a specific. Anyone else? Thanks ________________________________ From: Paul Parkanzky Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2015 4:49 PM To: Tim . Cc: Shop Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Optima batteries There is a specific Battery Tender model for gel-cell batteries. This is what I use on mine: http://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tender-021-0156-Charger-Model/dp/B000NCOKQK/ref =sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1439156949&sr=8-1&keywords=battery+tender+plus+gel+cell -Paul On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 5:29 PM, Tim . wrote: I've read that you have to have a special charger to charge this type of battery but I cannot find that information anymore. Can I put a Batter Tender trickle charger on a yellow top? Thanks clueless in WI tim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Donate: Archive: Forums: http://www.team.net/forums http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dave1massey@cs.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 10 07:45:08 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F39EE259F70D for ; Mon, 10 Aug 2015 07:45:07 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cdptpa-oedge-vip.email.rr.com (cdptpa-outbound-snat.email.rr.com [107.14.166.226]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C4C6259F509 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 2015 07:44:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [184.53.49.221] ([184.53.49.221:47333] helo=Meislaptop) by cdptpa-oedge01 (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.5.0.35861 r(Momo-dev:tip)) with ESMTP id 77/03-04061-CBAA8C55; Mon, 10 Aug 2015 13:44:34 +0000 From: "Randall" To: "'Tim .'" , "'Shop Talk'" References: Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 06:44:21 -0700 Thread-Index: AQHQ0upuay65AKYLsUuuwCv0BjZ0Vp4FO/8g Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Optima batteries Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > I've read that you have to have a special charger to charge this type of > battery but I cannot find that information anymore. > > Can I put a Batter Tender trickle charger on a yellow top? Of course you _can_, the real question is what happens when you do After comparing specs for the Optima Yellowtop And the Deltran "Battery Tender Plus" I'd say that the BT+ is not totally optimal, as it doesn't take the absorption phase voltage quite as high as suggested by Optima (14.4 volts vs 14.7 volts plus a 1hr 2 amp finishing charge); but should work well enough. In practice, I doubt you'll notice the difference. Battery life might be just a tiny bit shorter, but there are so many other factors that affect battery life that it will be impossible to know if using the BT+ had anything to do with it. Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 10 22:27:03 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A52E825B5814 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 2015 22:26:59 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.198]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C15EA25B5566 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 2015 22:18:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Steve-PC.optonline.net (ool-44c2b54e.dyn.optonline.net [68.194.181.78]) by mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPA id <0NSW00LJGHB3IVJ0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for Shop-talk@autox.team.net; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 00:18:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 00:18:25 -0400 From: Steven Trovato To: Scott Hall Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Is this a shutoff? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net It is my understanding that modern codes favor black pipe. In New York, I don't think copper is allowed with gas, especially if it is inside a wall. The concern is that someone drives a nail, hits the pipe and creates a small leak. Eventually enough gas leaks out that a spark can blow up the whole house. Also, gas work typically requires leak testing with a pressure gauge. The system has to hold pressure for a certain amount of time to prove that there are no leaks, even small ones. That is the big difference between water and gas. A small water leak may rot out some boards and wet some carpet or sheetrock. A small gas leak, given some time, can create an explosive situation. I am not saying don't do it. Just learn a lot about what you are doing and what the requirements are. Read stuff, ask people, get all the information you can. Maybe you can find a pro who would review your plans and look over and test the finished work, for a reasonable fee. I don't know if you can find someone willing to do that, but it might be a good solution if you can. -Steve Trovato strovato@optonline.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 11 08:14:59 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73F1B25DBFDF for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 08:14:59 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.196]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81E6425DB6D6 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 07:48:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Steve-PC.optonline.net (ool-44c2b54e.dyn.optonline.net [68.194.181.78]) by mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPA id <0NSX004MB7PK9C00@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for Shop-talk@autox.team.net; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 09:48:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 09:47:13 -0400 From: Steven Trovato To: John Miller References: <0NSW00LJHHB3IVJ0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Is this a shutoff? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Do modern codes really favor CSST or do modern businesses just favor it because it is easier and cheaper to install? I don't really know the answer to that. The answer probably depends on where you live. In any event, I guess what I meant to say is that modern codes and utilities do not favor copper. At least around here. At 02:09 AM 8/11/2015, John Miller wrote: >On August 10, 2015 9:18:25 PM PDT, Steven Trovato > wrote: > >It is my understanding that modern codes favor black pipe. >I think 'modern' codes for better or worse favor CSST. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 11 09:05:41 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0354025DD25E for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 09:05:41 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-io0-f181.google.com (mail-io0-f181.google.com [209.85.223.181]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2082825DCC05 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 08:45:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by iodb91 with SMTP id b91so144433319iod.1 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 07:45:13 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=jwMH7DD7gXcMY8GSQBCHViPPqGt7bypbPOe0/q8Us9s=; b=UDsSVemLqQhZp16KwtAtTuohf1SUqsdcjN2YPUGRxfsf/byula8Mv8otC/uytl0/qc vGAtnZM0vKjmrwoNDaR/Pe/kGrBR5gH2zY0SaXG50NTkApTHEHq2z58GecPRBjpANZob 0ZiUcJ0pQ9xUlrRNkOzUxeJ42s3XnBiCuR+WSiwGM+Mg90UtWwKqhkv8f3TV4ZaUpAs1 jOCw464/Ts5B4+fBgYvn6znJgt3mpG4BAtnQGrE9QwF1IPN8Yh+rNZ/1y0ANDyHplqZ3 5en2StT/Zvt0Jue7GrUnNVixpjCGr5izxJ/P6VN23VOJDUXic31tvU+YZdhdnvuN31Ur /J/Q== t26mr28924361ioi.13.1439304313100; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 07:45:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.101.227 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 07:45:13 -0700 (PDT) References: <0NSW00LJHHB3IVJ0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <0NSX004MC7PK9C00@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 10:45:13 -0400 From: Jeff Scarbrough To: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Is this a shutoff? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 9:47 AM, Steven Trovato wrote: > Do modern codes really favor CSST or do modern businesses just favor it > because it is easier and cheaper to install? I don't really know the answer > to that. The answer probably depends on where you live. In any event, I > guess what I meant to say is that modern codes and utilities do not favor > copper. At least around here. I'm pondering how one would re-solder a pinhole leak in a copper gas pipe system. I can't think of a way that doesn't involve the solderer becoming an involuntary astronaut. Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 11 10:36:06 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3058725F200B for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 10:36:06 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.200]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2706225EFDC7 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 10:17:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Steve-PC.optonline.net (ool-44c2b54e.dyn.optonline.net [68.194.181.78]) by mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPA id <0NSX00M04ELAHCF0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for Shop-talk@autox.team.net; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 12:17:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 12:17:15 -0400 From: Steven Trovato mail.com> To: Jeff Scarbrough , "shop-talk@autox.team.net" References: <0NSW00LJHHB3IVJ0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <0NSX004MC7PK9C00@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Is this a shutoff? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net What I'm reading seems to indicate that you shouldn't be soldering copper gas lines. You have to braze with melting point over 1000 degrees or use other "approved fittings." Here's a forum discussing it: http://www.inspectorsjournal.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14742 As for the pinhole problem, on initial installation I imagine one could charge and pressure test the whole system with air or nitrogen or something. Then redoing something wouldn't be any more hazardous than doing it the first time. Of course, once the system has had gas in it, it's a different story. -Steve At 10:45 AM 8/11/2015, Jeff Scarbrough wrote: >I'm pondering how one would re-solder a pinhole leak in a copper gas >pipe system. I can't think of a way that doesn't involve the solderer >becoming an involuntary astronaut. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 11 11:07:17 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EDF825F0FA9 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:07:17 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-vk0-f53.google.com (mail-vk0-f53.google.com [209.85.213.53]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AC5C25F0836 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 10:45:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by vkfi73 with SMTP id i73so30917985vkf.2 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 09:45:42 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=mEkH3ZKRiaMH3ipZyJScmoHILkNB1qRBXC1RH956bwo=; b=SW5eXoW25X0JwA/7LxuC1zCmXhq3BVpM39QxfmFbNsbtBCDFWFiqPlmhM6oiguraXK 08c4/aHf9yhgzUy5tVo2+VH46peuFi5uIADvOl9W8ydCmLoBcL57ghuI0pBERN7Ceeoa TzEAHaZvn6DLskmyucFmItqOYsvDq4+qgSVfZD8XhXjnh9sHpzbhsVYtdCv33q+ExbxO HipmIzUwk6ssp+POfLVxIdvwv2AVfjEU8PaB+8gjnC7afH0drybAvQaz45c0D4sDCo6V iq8X8bOUHHR8iWas66cv560s7qK92olAIX/GQM0Ak3tOJytrPuequJvvXPBWFpgAVcJI y+7w== i5mr32990527vdk.52.1439311542354; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 09:45:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.31.200.1 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 09:45:42 -0700 (PDT) References: <0NSW00LJHHB3IVJ0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <0NSX004MC7PK9C00@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <0NSX00M05ELAHCF0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:45:42 -0500 From: Scott Hall To: Steven Trovato Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Is this a shutoff? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Well...if I can't set up copper gas lines the same way I'd set up copper water lines, copper is right out. If I've got to learn a new skill, I might as well learn how to join black iron to be leak free. I'll need that when I set up the air lines in the garage, anyway. I'm thinking I'll set up the system up to the point of connecting it to the meter. Then I'll have someone come and pressure test it and connect it. That way I'll know it's done right (because I did it), and probably cheaper too. And also I'll mitigate the chance of sending my house into low earth orbit. On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 11:17 AM, Steven Trovato wrote: > What I'm reading seems to indicate that you shouldn't be soldering copper > gas lines. You have to braze with melting point over 1000 degrees or use > other "approved fittings." Here's a forum discussing it: > http://www.inspectorsjournal.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14742 > > As for the pinhole problem, on initial installation I imagine one could > charge and pressure test the whole system with air or nitrogen or > something. Then redoing something wouldn't be any more hazardous than > doing it the first time. Of course, once the system has had gas in it, > it's a different story. > > -Steve > > At 10:45 AM 8/11/2015, Jeff Scarbrough wrote: > >> I'm pondering how one would re-solder a pinhole leak in a copper gas >> pipe system. I can't think of a way that doesn't involve the solderer >> becoming an involuntary astronaut. >> > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/scott.hall.personal@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 11 11:10:33 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D0CD25F1131 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:10:33 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail.milleredp.com (fw.milleredp.com [198.144.208.110]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EA7A25F09A6 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 10:49:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [10.1.2.100] ([::ffff:10.1.2.100]) (AUTH: PLAIN jem, TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,128bits,AES128-SHA) by mail.milleredp.com with ESMTPSA; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 09:49:52 -0700 id 00000000002800AF.0000000055CA27B0.000002D4 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <0NSW00LJHHB3IVJ0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <0NSX004MC7PK9C00@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> From: John Miller Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 09:49:07 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.1.0 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Is this a shutoff? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > I'm pondering how one would re-solder a pinhole leak in a copper gas > pipe system. I can't think of a way that doesn't involve the solderer > becoming an involuntary astronaut. I guess you'd want to be isolating the area you're working on and purging it with something inert before you light up. I don't imagine this kind of thing would be widely accepted by authorities overseeing much residential/light commercial construction. John. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 11 11:26:01 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12D5525F1688 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:26:01 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.212]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB59825F0E93 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:04:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Steve-PC.optonline.net (ool-44c2b54e.dyn.optonline.net [68.194.181.78]) by mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-9.20 (built Jul 15 2010)) with ESMTPA id <0NSX00LO3GR78P50@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for Shop-talk@autox.team.net; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 13:04:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 13:04:03 -0400 From: Steven Trovato mail.com> To: Scott Hall References: <0NSW00LJHHB3IVJ0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <0NSX004MC7PK9C00@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <0NSX00M05ELAHCF0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Is this a shutoff? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Funny you should say that. I did my air lines with copper "just like water lines" in my garage. Other than the cost of copper, I haven't really come up with any drawbacks. -Steve At 12:45 PM 8/11/2015, Scott Hall wrote: >Well...if I can't set up copper gas lines the >same way I'd set up copper water lines, copper >is right out.B If I've got to learn a new >skill, I might as well learn how to join black >iron to be leak free. I'll need that when I set >up the air lines in the garage, anyway. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 11 11:55:45 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83FC725F21D3 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:55:45 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-vk0-f54.google.com (mail-vk0-f54.google.com [209.85.213.54]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAD7C25F187B for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:30:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by vkfi73 with SMTP id i73so31422200vkf.2 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 10:30:52 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=zbTmSHKyhmvqQVis02T+buLTcJwv0IuUWgHQS5VwYHw=; b=Ahwu1S1rLUR+YyE0IV/mTMPewyPaxRglfB4QScPxRY/VhOQD3J6k36619DaX6JYkTC zDkwMb8wgu5WMocwu/P24SUzdBim49x5iEJ9W+VGkjxwbVjmnz2QRrpJoVvHDs6jpre6 qZcdqChABU/y+j+s3WrkRnmvVW+uj2lRGYHoGZRJdaK+Nlv/slNa5j2YH7nZ1IvJQhvo E8gJksaonUBpzHSFb70IQRdeck0naai1K4CJ9SdOkb5j25Da8iu1dUmeGcXkwKJa1la8 vEpzx2+uC92tKWkiLrAkAqd/qJR3E1Rn79JOILOuQJx6vyxvHd/HP0D8WaETC/Nfc9Nd tCxQ== bq4mr33315707vdb.85.1439314252696; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 10:30:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.31.200.1 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 10:30:52 -0700 (PDT) References: <0NSW00LJHHB3IVJ0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <0NSX004MC7PK9C00@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <0NSX00M05ELAHCF0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <0NSX00LO4GR78P50@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 12:30:52 -0500 From: Scott Hall To: Steven Trovato Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Is this a shutoff? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wait...you did your air lines in copper? This is the part where I tell you no matter whether you're using type L or M, eventually it will fatigue and explode. Copper shrapnel everywhere. Yes, you *can* use copper. You can use Sch. 80, too, and you can use soldered copper on gas lines (I've got a house full of it now, in fact). (The benefit of black iron for air to me has always been the thermal capacity of the pipe. But then again, I worked two feel from a Sch. 40 air line for a few years in college. I'd never suggest anyone do that, but it always does temper my panic about things somewhat. On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 12:04 PM, Steven Trovato wrote: > Funny you should say that. I did my air lines with copper "just like > water lines" in my garage. Other than the cost of copper, I haven't really > come up with any drawbacks. > > -Steve > > At 12:45 PM 8/11/2015, Scott Hall wrote: > >> Well...if I can't set up copper gas lines the same way I'd set up copper >> water lines, copper is right out.C If I've got to learn a new skill, I >> might as well learn how to join black iron to be leak free. I'll need that >> when I set up the air lines in the garage, anyway. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 11 11:57:11 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3454625F226C for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:57:11 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-vk0-f53.google.com (mail-vk0-f53.google.com [209.85.213.53]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F77525F19CF for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:34:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by vkbc123 with SMTP id c123so24636969vkb.0 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 10:34:47 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=WdeSlv/nRlKV4+IuV4w5lydxK3EsRPcW+/XyAIWiVQo=; b=U1IcGokmL0Y9bO7T5BfkuJGMi6u8Bz0+Odx3rlX0y2in6x9i2P4n3tOuPo1NrOVhUD h8nka7cn5/wRY+EdymFYJIqBN0Za8IofV0TRiXn6KDGx8ufldVqDYNHGBul+q9c/Hior tTXL6adsJ5aO56w8Wx/sgqBJfKlfN0jCAKe9ihr3pQe05CIETpBINqTz80NkLJxuz3G2 +CV5xT36eUz0Q4rw4BvbfnRgz1856RWjw/pEU8cWu0hn2xczHQbuvy6GTYIIGiaOYJq4 nBT+VU4ZVaDe2ksYXp4XfoPvnKdmTl2tVN81dmUGnWffjYaUYRsNGghQfi1I1oN0DCr0 6yaQ== bq4mr33343909vdb.85.1439314487498; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 10:34:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.31.200.1 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 10:34:47 -0700 (PDT) References: <0NSW00LJHHB3IVJ0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <0NSX004MC7PK9C00@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <55CA2783.60303@milleredp.com> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 12:34:47 -0500 From: Scott Hall To: John Miller Cc: "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Is this a shutoff? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I'd think you'd just remove the section of pipe. You really can't solder a pinhole leak shut, even on water lines. Eventually the solder will give way. You can get a sleeve, I suppose, but I'd imagine you'd want to remove the pipe to slide the sleeve over it anyway, which means removing the section of pipe anyway... I guess someone probably makes a sleeve that is split so you don't need to remove the section of pipe, too, but geez...like someone else said, this stuff goes boom if you mess up. Take the section out and put in a new section. On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 11:49 AM, John Miller wrote: > I'm pondering how one would re-solder a pinhole leak in a copper gas >> pipe system. I can't think of a way that doesn't involve the solderer >> becoming an involuntary astronaut. >> > > I guess you'd want to be isolating the area you're working on and purging > it with something inert before you light up. > > I don't imagine this kind of thing would be widely accepted by authorities > overseeing much residential/light commercial construction. > > John. > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/scott.hall.personal@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 11 12:56:02 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6533925F37A4 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 12:56:02 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.212]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DAE225F2D96 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 12:29:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Steve-PC.optonline.net (ool-44c2b54e.dyn.optonline.net [68.194.181.78]) by mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-9.20 (built Jul 15 2010)) with ESMTPA id <0NSX000C2KOC5I60@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for Shop-talk@autox.team.net; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 14:29:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 14:28:39 -0400 From: Steven Trovato mail.com> To: Scott Hall References: <0NSW00LJHHB3IVJ0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <0NSX004MC7PK9C00@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <0NSX00M05ELAHCF0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <0NSX00LO4GR78P50@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Is this a shutoff? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I knew when I wrote that I would be opening that can of worms yet again. Go search around and find any evidence of "copper shrapnel everywhere." What you say is true for PVC, but I really don't think it applies to copper. If a pipe split or a joint failed, I believe that there would be a lot of rushing air and the compressor would work really hard to try to pressurize the whole garage, but I don't think anything dangerous would happen. I think there is greater risk to having an air hose fail and whipping all over. Copper seems to be a legitimate choice for compressed air, though not everyone's first choice. Here is one source (http://www.exair.com/en-US/Primary%20Navigation/Knowledge%20Base/Air%20Data/ Pages/CompressedAirPiping.aspx), scroll down to "metal pipe" and then see "copper pipe" in that category. -Steve At 01:30 PM 8/11/2015, Scott Hall wrote: >Wait...you did your air lines in copper? > >This is the part where I tell you no matter >whether you're using type L or M, eventually it >will fatigue and explode. Copper shrapnel everywhere. > >Yes, you *can* use copper. You can use Sch. 80, >too, and you can use soldered copper on gas >lines (I've got a house full of it now, in fact).B > >(The benefit of black iron for air to me has >always been the thermal capacity of the pipe. >But then again, I worked two feel from a Sch. 40 >air line for a few years in college. I'd never >suggest anyone do that, but it always does >temper my panic about things somewhat. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 11 12:57:21 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 665FD25F381E for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 12:57:21 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-io0-f172.google.com (mail-io0-f172.google.com [209.85.223.172]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B4B225F30B5 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 12:36:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by ioeg141 with SMTP id g141so211349175ioe.3 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:36:08 -0700 (PDT) s=20120113; h=content-type:subject:mime-version:from:in-reply-to:date :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=C0Asy9zTUoiU1k99saP28lE7azcvdn4gSa+lAtMGIFg=; b=Mx89Cn+EPaXAdXoK8ioPUpQaZz6H0LNwwQzcqqaprczYtbBS+msMdCatdwRy27gEdk w0WvlB62LBaWohD2mQPmcc/b0qIbUdGFMpBPGF81gIGiz/7qVDs8FKtPmyfGc1qeA/CK 6IdGn09I03zLx32KN8I23vZ9vCDq34/KgDhn3gtS7tJTQ8hGemI31lxRue2xu15SyWdX fjh4irHWThbmOMqkeIK7QOMePEt7Ptombi4xHnP5dhL0DzW9VYMg/qGypq/9seHV8uZK nReYCc+8VHbrw/73+f+zwDTCGx6aK2+LxNbrPlQtz5EFx2JAFwsKvhPgH+9X9ebTETRo 8fsA== r25mr1483071ioe.32.1439318168367; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:36:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.1.171] ([104.192.244.60]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b1sm2074136iob.18.2015.08.11.11.35.59 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:35:59 -0700 (PDT) From: David Scheidt Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 13:35:58 -0500 Received: from [172.16.1.171] ([104.192.244.60]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q187sm1947905ioe.37.2015.08.11.10.33.39 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 11 Aug 2015 10:33:39 -0700 (PDT) References: <0NSW00LJHHB3IVJ0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <0NSX004MC7PK9C00@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> To: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Is this a shutoff? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net The first attempt to send this got eaten by the moderator daemon. > On Aug 11, 2015, at 08:47, Steven Trovato wrote: > > Do modern codes really favor CSST or do modern businesses just favor it because it is easier and cheaper to install? Cast isn't much cheaper to install than black pipe. Cast needs protection against nail strikes, dog bites, and lightning. Doing that eats up the installation cost advantage, most places. Cut corners and it's a lot cheaper. It will burn down sooner, too. I wouldn't buy a house with csst, and I'd never install it either, other than as an appliance drop. I might have a different opinion if I lived in California or other earthquake country. Flexibility is csst big advantage. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 11 13:59:15 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 730FE25F499D for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 13:59:15 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-vk0-f45.google.com (mail-vk0-f45.google.com [209.85.213.45]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22D2225F4536 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 13:37:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by vkbf67 with SMTP id f67so17210955vkb.3 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 12:37:42 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=qnuO3lh/Q9u2O2SB47Qv7ZMjX7ZLmSX73djtb+RsV98=; b=ioZHHoWr29lSM1yGWLnu3oBLlSDTfFxg5xJX7Yh6DjGIoa0A5+X/swMtTRkpHJ4VLR vKdVoW4b0QVCQ22IFc75uQTX18c1xiyIs/wvhI82Tq3ZaOaUyjvaKKDAIzSSWqMOsnc/ St1SKAIp9Jmsy9EpFXja6+h2WK5+VAUj5RnisbLvH2BOFElUfa22VZRYaKKQRz4h9p+J tIveQ918vO1lXos6K2Yxb9nZ1d1W/MULi9WLQVmrAIxlDUrqlgWUSfaV3heIeY5Lfd1u sSI99m7Ta0eAL+nHTKWrZx/W1iNIX4btDQ7J8hgxiGIqyTl3lwk6+8laYWAwmoiU645b DQ9w== pr16mr36588141vdb.53.1439321861952; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 12:37:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.31.200.1 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 12:37:41 -0700 (PDT) References: <0NSW00LJHHB3IVJ0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <0NSX004MC7PK9C00@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <0NSX00M05ELAHCF0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <0NSX00LO4GR78P50@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <0NSX000C3KOD5I60@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 14:37:41 -0500 From: Scott Hall To: Steven Trovato Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Is this a shutoff? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Nah, man, I was going to do all my air pipe in type M copper (because it's easier for me to work with) before I gave in, so I won't give you a hard time. And like I said, I worked with my face two feet from a sch. 40 air line for years (before I knew better). I'll never, ever recommend any one do air lines in anything but black iron, but the whole, "You'll put your eye out!!!" is counter-productive, I think. It goes against experience. It's not a great idea, but it's also not an immediate death sentence. And I agree that the likely failure of copper is a split, not an explosion. But it *can* happen (just like sch. 40 can rupture catastrophically, even if when it blew up in our shop is was just a loud noise with zero injury). I agree with Benjamin--the real risk with copper is the solder melting if too close to the compressor. Having said all that, I don't mind doing my gas lines in black iron if that's the 'right' way to do it. I need to learn how, and I'm wondering if iron will be cheaper than copper, anyway. No matter what I'm going to have normal shut-off valves--with handles-- places appropriately. Scott On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 1:28 PM, Steven Trovato wrote: > I knew when I wrote that I would be opening that can of worms yet again. > Go search around and find any evidence of "copper shrapnel everywhere." > What you say is true for PVC, but I really don't think it applies to > copper. If a pipe split or a joint failed, I believe that there would be a > lot of rushing air and the compressor would work really hard to try to > pressurize the whole garage, but I don't think anything dangerous would > happen. I think there is greater risk to having an air hose fail and > whipping all over. Copper seems to be a legitimate choice for compressed > air, though not everyone's first choice. Here is one source ( > http://www.exair.com/en-US/Primary%20Navigation/Knowledge%20Base/Air%20Data/P ages/CompressedAirPiping.aspx), > scroll down to "metal pipe" and then see "copper pipe" in that category. > > -Steve > > > At 01:30 PM 8/11/2015, Scott Hall wrote: > >> Wait...you did your air lines in copper? >> >> This is the part where I tell you no matter whether you're using type L >> or M, eventually it will fatigue and explode. Copper shrapnel everywhere. >> >> Yes, you *can* use copper. You can use Sch. 80, too, and you can use >> soldered copper on gas lines (I've got a house full of it now, in fact).C >> >> (The benefit of black iron for air to me has always been the thermal >> capacity of the pipe. But then again, I worked two feel from a Sch. 40 air >> line for a few years in college. I'd never suggest anyone do that, but it >> always does temper my panic about things somewhat. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 11 14:18:18 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECC6125F4E42 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 14:18:17 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.212]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2CEF25F4A40 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 14:01:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Steve-PC.optonline.net (ool-44c2b54e.dyn.optonline.net [68.194.181.78]) by mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-9.20 (built Jul 15 2010)) with ESMTPA id <0NSX00M80OXOOG80@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for Shop-talk@autox.team.net; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 16:01:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 15:59:08 -0400 From: Steven Trovato mail.com> To: Scott Hall References: <0NSW00LJHHB3IVJ0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <0NSX004MC7PK9C00@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <0NSX00M05ELAHCF0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <0NSX00LO4GR78P50@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <0NSX000C3KOD5I60@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Is this a shutoff? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net The risk there would only be to the first soldered fitting, I would think. You can always silver solder that one. If it does fail, it is not going to explode or anything. -Steve At 03:37 PM 8/11/2015, Scott Hall wrote: >I agree with Benjamin--the real risk with copper is the solder >melting if too close to the compressor. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Aug 12 15:03:34 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4B902585ECC for ; Wed, 12 Aug 2015 15:03:34 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-yk0-f169.google.com (mail-yk0-f169.google.com [209.85.160.169]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 862442585446 for ; Wed, 12 Aug 2015 14:45:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by ykay144 with SMTP id y144so24720283yka.3 for ; Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:45:15 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=2RxGE0EdIB26AU6FKno0+en6oGwgK5RaDNXHc+8IFzc=; b=Rt/sYdSwZtQoMwXsyP4MKdM8Q6R8BzjJxUOVmolkwo24BMlMSTkHFB44tXx5uWhq1A obD1nqbolaBLS5YlGyBxHApFNkPkIv4bnnEoUQRPlTuTlfvY09CHLFMySV5U1OxJpm/D aU1NDq+zFbMDPbtMYl9efHQs8elayjDJ5+X6ZO8s1Dz8JIUD3CdhFlzsASDe+ovuX4nT xPNkctlrlSe21lxV4GGhr9LXGXgXBVRoEX0VsmTSABbwcmNG6+WRzTkFfuWWx2xeYvuY Rj1ZVzCfqG28LCiof09HRvJr30BQ9jTU7m51KI4cYzf4vtLGYMIfi+I4dQJBqt4on0mB tDXA== e130mr19726156ywb.94.1439412315240; Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:45:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.129.41.151 with HTTP; Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:45:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 16:45:15 -0400 From: Joe Szwed To: Shop-Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] on the subject of copper and pvc air lines Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net In regards to the copper/pvc air line discussion. It always seems be a heated topic. In a couple quick searches to industry sources, I found the following: On page 9 in the following booklet. http://www.copper.org/publications/pub_list/pdf/copper_tube_handbook.pdf "Compressed AirbUse copper tube of Types K, L or M determined by the rated internal working pressures as shown in Table 3. Brazed joints are recommended." In regards to PVC, in this manual: http://www.charlottepipe.com/Documents/PL_Tech_Man/Charlotte_Plastics_Tech_Ma nual.pdf Under this section: SUBMITTAL FOR CHARLOTTE PIPEB. PVC SCHEDULE 40 PRESSURE PIPE AND FITTING SYSTEM You see the following: WARNING! Never test with or transport/store compressed air or gas in PVC pipe or fittings. Doing so can result in explosive failures and cause severe injury or death. On a different but similar situation, I find it interesting that PVC pipe is commonly used to vent flue gas from boilers and water heaters etc, yet no where will you find a manufacturer of PVC pipe who rates their pipe for that application. Joe _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Aug 22 17:33:49 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E23F2258A5EF for ; Sat, 22 Aug 2015 17:33:48 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from homiemail-a68.g.dreamhost.com (sub5.mail.dreamhost.com [208.113.200.129]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03F1C2589FA9 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 2015 17:33:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from homiemail-a68.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a68.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 355BA40113760 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 2015 16:33:40 -0700 (PDT) :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:subject:message-id:date :to:mime-version; s=groupwbench.org; bh=3zie663LPNorhi7noJ8g16eb pdM=; b=RvT5wjCj8AFmdN9jbdvrQkk/rJpUlWPMVsgVneIsbsSdRUySusMgKv/e ujSU9BiBSKoQG9gy0NjGE7y6/WO3/fPYP/+Ei2bTwdHlt36uT6Ojpj8thiuxFc9u GGP/lpHRav2BaMXu2F89qk28rRS+rwBU1rjIStctcHIlTgc7gnI= Received: from jims-imac.home (pool-98-118-108-149.bstnma.fios.verizon.net [98.118.108.149]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jamesf@groupwbench.org) by homiemail-a68.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C1C1340113745 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 2015 16:33:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Franklin Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 19:33:37 -0400 To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] Ever sell off all your tools? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I turned 50 this year, and realized the past 25 years were one long fix-it session. While I made a living at it, and saved some $ DIYing, I'm contemplating moving into a condo in the city and just writing that monthly HOA check. I'm curious if any of you have considered this, and what the outcome was. None of the tools are sentimental, or (with the exception of the Festo circular saw) high end. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Aug 22 18:03:20 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5030258AF87 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 2015 18:03:20 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-io0-f175.google.com (mail-io0-f175.google.com [209.85.223.175]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7598258AF81 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 2015 18:02:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by iods203 with SMTP id s203so115780254iod.0 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 2015 17:02:19 -0700 (PDT) s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=mxIAd8YNyiIcpKBuD93MrhbepjLKS4675tzC6R4spk0=; b=VxGiZgBHcq/o/r1kHDh+aUmwDSUxIksxHmqZ4mQMPTADRlYhBhyaQrHjp97xBUFByY RaT1+IfNNY7gIQkfc4U7XS4VcInpLdDYSITosK58p6XiOxeE5aD0hnSnkzw7rESj4iPn O/JsDm1THrbpMwSTHp/Pm0NY9vdywZmGQ1UQo= d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=mxIAd8YNyiIcpKBuD93MrhbepjLKS4675tzC6R4spk0=; b=IGHsNMv7CzpJ38vLUjkj6fobzxuKkHpBXdIVNaOlwRvSBdczcg0rLwmktTyLfLOXqF ogcp/boFljLUBmuvdBL4uiNTmKJskB0CkJ2GIWtQoes0xzo9i8om0QhGeeeKIRj8P33L FO18ozarp77OzS42NDkrWRuVmyjwnWNYcsQWqg74u+gUq+RexabaeozCTq6CXtH6zftp FXUQa9U3gDVgPTTBE9mcdvbeU9Zk/NtRPeOJq9jJ5Tmu9sCib/SyVsevcO9jfT0Gr8q6 mTmwhsf233iGm3KQlpgkFe/qQlCf44CBFRZYT9Z8m8fTTfU3X9aOuKdRULzZPRu7HeOf soWA== e83mr12966012ioj.112.1440288138769; Sat, 22 Aug 2015 17:02:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.107.178.200 with HTTP; Sat, 22 Aug 2015 17:02:18 -0700 (PDT) References: Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 20:02:18 -0400 From: Ian McFetridge To: Jim Franklin Cc: Shop Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Ever sell off all your tools? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I did it in 2009. From: 4 bedroom 4000 sqft house, 3 bay garage and 22 x 16' shop with 80 gallon air, etc. To: Manhattan apartment I gave/sold a bunch of stuff to local friends, but the bulk of it went to my inlaws farm (they have tons of space, out-buildings, etc.) It's at once nice to not have to worry about anything...while also constantly telling myself if I had [this tool] I could fix that rather than pay someone a small fortune or wait for an HOA/building person to do it (usually not to my satisfaction). THEN, we got pregnant with twins and moved to the suburbs (circle of life?). I gradually moved things from the farm to the new house and bought some new tools, but the exercise has made me rationalize many purchases and curb my packrat nature (e.g., I get by with a pancake compressor instead of an 80 gal with hardlines). Our latest house does have a 20 x 40' woodshop setup by the PO, so it's temping to fill it back up. The wife and I saw the perks of boro/city living and will be going back to that when the boys graduate high school, so we say (we'll be in our 50s). A friend of mine has a nice compromise, he lives in a condo, but is a volunteer firefighter and has access to a really nice shop/tools at the station--not a bad compromise. -Ian On Sat, Aug 22, 2015 at 7:33 PM, Jim Franklin wrote: > > > I'm curious if any of you have considered this, and what the outcome was. > None > of the tools are sentimental, or (with the exception of the Festo circular > saw) high end. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Aug 22 18:48:44 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 399AC258A653 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 2015 18:48:44 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from na01-by2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-by2on0109.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.100.109]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0BC32589FCF for ; Sat, 22 Aug 2015 18:43:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from BY2PR12MB0069.namprd12.prod.outlook.com (10.160.66.154) by BY2PR12MB0069.namprd12.prod.outlook.com (10.160.66.154) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.231.21; Sun, 23 Aug 2015 00:43:38 +0000 Received: from BY2PR12MB0069.namprd12.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.66.154]) by BY2PR12MB0069.namprd12.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.66.154]) with mapi id 15.01.0231.024; Sun, 23 Aug 2015 00:43:38 +0000 From: Lee Hart To: Jim Franklin , "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" Thread-Topic: [Shop-talk] Ever sell off all your tools? Thread-Index: AQHQ3TMJA9Y//vi6s06eNEUbAExRZ54Yvxie Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 00:43:37 +0000 References: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=LeeHart@LeeHart.Com; x-originating-ip: [192.182.128.154] x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BY2PR12MB0069; 5:DPXk3xf/+Jw+E11JKC3fjqNg/bATqpZ+HQpBarqPcA7bSEnGjVRXNE+DzFJYDjv4nhtpa1+FtVO8TEaqgAO4BXLRlAskTYyVJXHelwBotaUdNxNbEKcEXagWjZs8KmZupjblTJHePdHdN4+n7iLfaA==; 24:3qBpyowx6w8drWr9xOh+tbEqncol3/avMCUZlnnRNKCQAEKxW7BbTyKVi61gk0IPCwdEKiTcbhsVNSl9ew1xS88LeaWd5eq22HcBDAq5SAg=; 20:Pas0BYjg3GoZpQlUjzMS4AmNKVS3ZfeMaYJoup3KvpTtrCwyw6RG0yiCAY95Fh8jxluJmxeG7WDeyXfHDW8q/g== x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(42139001); SRVR:BY2PR12MB0069; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(601004)(5005006)(8121501046)(3002001); SRVR:BY2PR12MB0069; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:BY2PR12MB0069; x-forefront-prvs: 0677FFABBF x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(479174004)(199003)(189002)(15975445007)(2950100001)(5004730100002)(77156002)(5002640100001)(2900100001)(2501003)(122556002)(19625215002)(40100003)(106116001)(64706001)(68736005)(62966003)(63666004)(66066001)(95246002)(19617315012)(10400500002)(16236675004)(76176999)(97736004)(19580395003)(5001770100001)(189998001)(99286002)(106356001)(77096005)(92566002)(5001830100001)(2656002)(33646002)(5007970100001)(105586002)(50986999)(19580405001)(107886002)(46102003)(87936001)(102836002)(86362001)(4001540100001)(54356999)(5001860100001)(81156007)(5001960100002)(101416001)(85282002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BY2PR12MB0069; H:BY2PR12MB0069.namprd12.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:0; MX:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: LeeHart.Com does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:23 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Ever sell off all your tools? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I bought a set of tools that way. They were mostly Snap-on tools in a pair of Snap-on chests, bought for roughly the price of a new set of chests. The former owner owned an auto repair shop and had not spun a wrench in a long time. He moved into a townhouse half the size of his house that I was buying. He did regret the sale. Lee Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device -------- Original message -------- From: Jim Franklin Date: 8/22/2015 16:34 (GMT-08:00) To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] Ever sell off all your tools? I turned 50 this year, and realized the past 25 years were one long fix-it session. While I made a living at it, and saved some $ DIYing, I'm contemplating moving into a condo in the city and just writing that monthly HOA check. I'm curious if any of you have considered this, and what the outcome was. None of the tools are sentimental, or (with the exception of the Festo circular saw) high end. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/leehart@leehart.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Aug 23 00:37:55 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4007F258B02B for ; Sun, 23 Aug 2015 00:37:55 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cdptpa-oedge-vip.email.rr.com (cdptpa-outbound-snat.email.rr.com [107.14.166.226]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61473258B00A for ; Sun, 23 Aug 2015 00:37:44 -0600 (MDT) Authentication-Results: cdptpa-oedge02 smtp.user=tr3driver@ca.rr.com; auth=pass (LOGIN) Received: from [174.58.120.103] ([174.58.120.103:50411] helo=Meislaptop) by cdptpa-oedge02 (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.5.0.35861 r(Momo-dev:tip)) with ESMTPA id CD/F1-03586-A3A69D55; Sun, 23 Aug 2015 06:37:46 +0000 From: "Randall" To: References: Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 23:37:42 -0700 Thread-Index: AdDdMwYm4gwQlgcuSem5Ln9rmImv2QAObTYg Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Ever sell off all your tools? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > I'm > contemplating moving into a condo in the city and just writing that > monthly > HOA check. Takes all kinds, I guess. That would be the kiss of death for me, only two steps removed from the nursing home. I just turned 60, and retired. It's not about saving money or making a living, but doing the things I enjoy. Got a 1914 player piano that I'd love to make play again; and here in a few days I hope to hear a 1948 "Johnny Popper" make that lovely exhaust note once again. With no tools, I'd be sitting on the couch watching Seinfeld reruns! Just noticed your email addy. Say Hi to Arlo for me Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 24 10:54:48 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64BD2258B423 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 10:54:48 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-ch2-12v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-12v.sys.comcast.net [69.252.207.44]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7154258B20D for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 10:54:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-16v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.112]) by resqmta-ch2-12v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id 8gsa1r0032S2Q5R01gugLp; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 16:54:40 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.22] ([73.47.127.174]) by resomta-ch2-16v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id 8guf1r00J3lta6101gugtq; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 16:54:40 +0000 To: Jim Franklin , Shop-talk@autox.team.net References: From: "Peter J. Thomas" Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 12:54:41 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.2.0 s=q20140121; t=1440435280; bh=h7NbeTuIYj0iHmlpeNp4e97JReM2IfQiSvjntUIyX7Y=; h=Received:Received:Subject:To:From:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=BtyqGxn4vNl6W8FQTb9sxEHnkvNBswLQgWYCUJhpxO6GMP37qC86UCLJ8toXByMGC CcnQrqgdpCeO6m3Ui5KhfU+Q0TAI6LLEx3Ex1MHrKj/bBHe+TlThXXAiP6rdpW9yho M6s48Dr37/T4rfrt595ePLeoGBhR8iTtGaQOT+rWO8wTAyePsgxmfnBeBrMJe38LCP SC131zZ6ZZmzbjCecJ+Jg+gCpdXVB6CJJbk4MF2T6oHDynAPl761/h21VW5Ajt6zj/ ZvYrE/5qHOVX2RQlON5cjfYaUOFeoj8n8kpuDQxE8Aj4/ltrnuEUbLymRHB8Wlxanu kdm2db9XczBUQ== Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Ever sell off all your tools? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On 8/22/2015 7:33 PM, Jim Franklin wrote: > I turned 50 this year, and realized the past 25 years were one long fix-it > session. While I made a living at it, and saved some $ DIYing, I'm > contemplating moving into a condo in the city and just writing that monthly > HOA check. > > I'm curious if any of you have considered this, and what the outcome was. None > of the tools are sentimental, or (with the exception of the Festo circular > saw) high end. More like the reverse. Moved from apartments when single to house when married. When single I kept a tool chest, small floor jack and stands for the car. For non auto a couple of buckets with the basic hand tools, circular saw, jig saw, corded drill, sander, router, angle grinder, etc. With a clamping straight edge and saw horses I could do most of what I use my table saw for now. You might consider going through your tools and culling them down to the basics. The big tools you could sell/donate to a close friend/family so you can use them if needed. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 24 12:37:19 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A23D2588788 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 12:37:19 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from eastrmfepo103.cox.net (eastrmfepo103.cox.net [68.230.241.215]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C694B2586DBF for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 12:32:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from eastrmimpo109 ([68.230.241.222]) by eastrmfepo103.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.01.05.15 201-2260-151-145-20131218) with ESMTP id <20150824183213.JNBT4964.eastrmfepo103.cox.net@eastrmimpo109> for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 14:32:13 -0400 Received: from John-PC.cox.net ([24.254.213.227]) by eastrmimpo109 with cox id 8iYC1r00K4uwYHU01iYCDl; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 14:32:13 -0400 a=1uXzHskWtM6b6G3593e3IQ==:17 a=kviXuzpPAAAA:8 a=zOoktvdPAAAA:8 a=q6SfDYXhAAAA:8 a=_6GpL_ENAAAA:8 a=JUBA3EGWtqfOBhp8syAA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=aav4MXMyVXkA:10 a=4zxjrV59PHAA:10 a=bz_d9vehOyUA:10 a=Qt3YkXIYVhG7mHOT:21 a=igkNZ2s6NNbVbJXu:21 a=uFYYxr3I6HdB9EmLkQ4A:9 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=X2OLHpKcrXpT9oAE:21 a=PLzBh3Dxn2-JWZ_a:21 a=tJCdGEyjrw16-vtX:21 a=1uXzHskWtM6b6G3593e3IQ==:117 Authentication-Results: cox.net; none Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 14:32:11 -0400 To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net From: "John T. Blair" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Ever sell off all your tools? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net At 12:54 PM 8/24/2015, as Peter wrote: >You might consider going through your tools and culling them down to the > basics. The big tools you could sell/donate to a close friend/family so you can >use them if needed. One of my buddies moved into a 2 bedroom condo in the DC area. He loved wood working, so he turned his extra bedroom into his work shop. Table saw and all. So if you have an extra room, you may not have to get rid off all the tools. Unfortunately, my dad passed away reciently. We'd built a 6 bay shop at his place and had everything, table saw, radial arm saw, belt sanders, several band saws, Arc & O/A welding, BridgePort milling machine, drill press, metal and wood lathes, etc. Unfortunately all the tools wouldn't fit in my 2 car garage. So we had to off a lot of the big tools. Some of the smaller tools, the riobi planer, some so of the small band saws, a small drill press, etc will be going to my youngest son. Been working on cleaning out his place for 6 mo. now and it's still a mess. :) John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948@cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy: e pluribus Unum, "from many, one." In God We Trust Liberty - the power of choosing, thinking, and acting for oneself; freedom from control or restriction --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 24 12:52:25 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7B942589CA8 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 12:52:25 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from outbound-mail02.vgs.untd.com (outbound-mail02.vgs.untd.com [64.136.55.36]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 941452589430 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 12:47:02 -0600 (MDT) s=alpha; t=1440442024; bh=47DEQpj8HBSa+/TImW+5JCeuQeRkm5NMpJWZG3hSuFU=; l=0; h=From:Date:Cc:Subject:Message-Id:Content-Type:To; b=aiubylPkZzjsgFqOP/CnemWfKcnHSjzunXK2zy6eiNj6mRoLP3AXcREc3zbBUemC4 VXHpldc3cm7ihzPvvFqNvmGP46J3OkoSU2v8c55YyOJVlyxl4ShRWVhQfrxQh9R+LE bBO2hoFa5UG4+b0nFAbFB0vtyUvrxwTGjbLRSBIw= Received: from outbound-bu1.vgs.untd.com (webmail09.vgs.untd.com [10.181.12.149]) by smtpout03.vgs.untd.com with SMTP id AABL7Y3VXA2HKTJ2 for (sender ); Mon, 24 Aug 2015 11:46:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [75.76.179.156] by webmail09.vgs.untd.com with HTTP: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 18:45:49 GMT From: "Matt" Full-Name: "Matt" Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 18:45:49 GMT Cc: Shop-talk@autox.team.net To: Undisclosed-recipients:; Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Ever sell off all your tools? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net John wrote: Unfortunately, my dad passed away reciently. ... Sorry for your loss John. My wife has been threatening me to get some projects moving and clean up the shop.She claims "if you pass away and leave me with all that crap, I am gonna have the garage sale you always dreamed of finding!" That's right Craig's ad: BITTER WIDOW UNLOADS HUBBY's SHOP FOR PENNIES ON THE DOLLAR! I am not even a senior citizen yet! She is right though, time to get my butt in gear. I will tell her to post it here as well. MB _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 24 16:39:52 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 714E6258A679 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 16:39:52 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-po-05v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-po-05v.sys.comcast.net [96.114.154.164]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8AD1258A662 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 16:39:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-po-13v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.237]) by resqmta-po-05v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id 8mf51r00357bBgG01mfmd8; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 22:39:46 +0000 Received: from [192.168.0.102] ([50.168.107.76]) by resomta-po-13v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id 8mfl1r0071evlWS01mflJU; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 22:39:46 +0000 From: Mark Miller To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 15:39:44 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.2.0 s=q20140121; t=1440455986; bh=4IGPGh0zfozQfSOKQSdZRhdjTP3v96NVUkMA9biTcK0=; h=Received:Received:From:Subject:To:Reply-To:Message-ID:Date: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=WnW3JsNpwJQzaBpMW9pu4nbIAK/VYHL+W1Q4DDjne3DrTvIqAzQLd7wohgRTo7jJ6 /ae6aiWSxyOjU3Y8RCcRM9/SLpalLm29xTNf7CYx4lTHqr+2+cHbYbEIc8KsmVychg dVK3TJKVyHFCw1SAF89FqTEsyISS7POh+R/XMEHRnqcY7UrD3ra0zgtZLk6BUM99sD gdXpOxOlUDoe7upb3vadP7mMA9mYD+U56GA6nwdkUqT7KvjaPO/OUNs4cF7CTYXTc6 8PDryP3SnN8ItoP+t9j5cXZ7vw6RwipWB9am4rrWdV7zbbDe4TwYPaTfHZNZf1iy/3 IUQkh9yCKrC2Q== Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Ever sell off all your tools? (Peter J. Thomas) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net >> >I turned 50 this year, and realized the past 25 years were one long fix-it >> >session. While I made a living at it, and saved some $ DIYing, I'm >> >contemplating moving into a condo in the city and just writing that monthly >> >HOA check. >> > >> >I'm curious if any of you have considered this, and what the outcome was. None >> >of the tools are sentimental, or (with the exception of the Festo circular >> >saw) high end. I'd recommend finding someone you can loan them all to so that if you need/want anything in the future you can borrow it back. And you will want something some time. Kids, maybe? Drinking buddy? If you sell them you won't get anywhere what they are worth and there is likely to be anger at you from your future self. Regards, Mark Miller markmiller@threeboysfarm.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 24 17:55:03 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1DC7258A969 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 17:55:03 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from dogbert2.mail.megageek.com (nj-69-34-94-16.sta.embarqhsd.net [69.34.94.16]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B41A8258A4B0 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 17:51:29 -0600 (MDT) To: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net From: eric@megageek.com Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 19:27:55 -0400 7.0.1|January 17, 2006) at 08/24/2015 19:27:55, Serialize complete at 08/24/2015 19:27:55 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Ever sell off all your tools? (Peter J. Thomas) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mark writes... >I'd recommend finding someone you can loan them all to so that if you >need/want anything in the future you can borrow it back. In fact, I bet you couldn't find a better bunch of guys than your buddies right here on this list!! I'll be happy to 'store' all your tools here and you can use them whenever you want. I'll even pay to have them shipped here! 8>) Sent from my Commodore 64 on a 2400 Baud Modem. Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 24 18:43:51 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F311258AFF4 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 18:43:51 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail.milleredp.com (fw.milleredp.com [198.144.208.110]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A05EB258A81B for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 18:43:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [10.1.2.100] ([::ffff:10.1.2.100]) (AUTH: PLAIN jem, TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,128bits,AES128-SHA) by mail.milleredp.com with ESMTPSA; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 17:43:46 -0700 id 00000000002800AF.0000000055DBBA42.00002100 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <55DB9D30.4010407@threeboysfarm.com> From: John Miller Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 17:42:56 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.1.0 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Ever sell off all your tools? (Peter J. Thomas) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > I'd recommend finding someone you can loan them all to so that if you > need/want anything in the future you can borrow it back. And you will > want something some time. Kids, maybe? Drinking buddy? > If you sell them you won't get anywhere what they are worth and there is > likely to be anger at you from your future self. CALL 1-800-SHOP-TALK TRUCKS ARE WAITING THROUGHOUT THE LOWER 48 BEER QUALITY DEPENDS ON INVENTORY John. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 24 19:26:17 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2710258B2D0 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 19:26:17 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-io0-f176.google.com (mail-io0-f176.google.com [209.85.223.176]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 865C9258B109 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 19:24:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by iodt126 with SMTP id t126so170283978iod.2 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 18:24:41 -0700 (PDT) h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=l9X9O0ZXMk8j2hHPY/6/zzFz+FkvqfKGsZj2wXCdc3s=; b=xVji+rdyN90fVbJV276Bi8xEkyPS9mjP9f9f8/I5mYwjHIpQu0VdQkjQuPemC4ou9L hWB4Ihl6eG2EAp/lCLcTBZaEaJIzrfZaZja3wP92icXmLdjL/Jj5G4o+8VaGD28/veST HFlfokOIigEJjwxZ7q45s8pSkudEbvVdKMu0jkQP6mjlX5iSZxAx7+iq421pydiRaPQq JX38SXhyDiGBsl1moiE5470rOm5zmtXhTom4tUou9AdfVXV5+G1AB5NTP1D3/P76dEtH Lk0dAurIC1S9xS7kD7bl1lJyT4q8S54OTJp0G77sPz80fhgSD9oR03pFSIYJUVz86A2K TUcg== q93mr15484948ioi.101.1440465881141; Mon, 24 Aug 2015 18:24:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.103] (205-178-103-199.c3-0.stk-ubr1.chi-stk.il.cable.rcn.com. [205.178.103.199]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q10sm95300ige.16.2015.08.24.18.24.40 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 24 Aug 2015 18:24:40 -0700 (PDT) From: David Scheidt Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 20:24:39 -0500 References: To: Jim Franklin Cc: "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Ever sell off all your tools? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > On Aug 22, 2015, at 18:33, Jim Franklin wrote: > > I turned 50 this year, and realized the past 25 years were one long fix-it > session. While I made a living at it, and saved some $ DIYing, I'm > contemplating moving into a condo in the city and just writing that monthly > HOA check. Another alternative is to outsource the bits you don't like (lawn care, snow removal, routine car maintenance?), and do the stuff you do like (restoring? Fabrication?). Depending on where you are, things like lawn mowing can be ridiculously cheap, and give a bunch of time to other things. On the other hand, if you do go for a condo, keep enough tools to do stuff you'd feel like an idiot calling a plumber for. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Aug 25 11:47:13 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B532A258A03F for ; Tue, 25 Aug 2015 11:47:13 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from BAY004-OMC2S14.hotmail.com (bay004-omc2s14.hotmail.com [65.54.190.89]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45AC4258A03B for ; Tue, 25 Aug 2015 11:46:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com ([65.54.190.124]) by BAY004-OMC2S14.hotmail.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.23008); Tue, 25 Aug 2015 10:46:12 -0700 Received: from CY1PR13MB0503.namprd13.prod.outlook.com (10.164.70.145) by CY1PR13MB0502.namprd13.prod.outlook.com (10.164.70.144) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.256.11; Tue, 25 Aug 2015 17:46:10 +0000 Received: from CY1PR13MB0503.namprd13.prod.outlook.com ([10.164.70.145]) by CY1PR13MB0503.namprd13.prod.outlook.com ([10.164.70.145]) with mapi id 15.01.0256.010; Tue, 25 Aug 2015 17:46:10 +0000 From: "Tim ." To: Shop Talk Thread-Topic: Is any one near...... Thread-Index: AQHQ313sq26Y0zR42ESFtNx7dWdnMQ== Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015 17:46:10 +0000 Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=tims_datsun_stuff@outlook.com; x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-tmn: [MWKkZY3FsvYGSHbKTg6MieERJt4eyUIW] x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; CY1PR13MB0502; 5:lUWwBLAC78Yl3A+9occ2BvYVpKT3KZ8KvM5NH/jhVN4yZVFDjQ8phVt6k2hJSYCsaST8vqOv1lrF5lvhTq40Nac1KI/wQh4fw9DW5vWwz4EC9iQXahwwdl2fjKLuYX3t3qA3zhQkNcZuJL4VDRl6+g==; 24:zwIBqSAxqMHOw+KX7TwgANfneFNLrhXT3vEV5PHdUcvoD/EEyvWUoLtLOQNa5UCUjq/HGHHzwKLhM7Uq17pd/MHyLrt/trdqWVw1YQegRLo=; 20:RbRzcDCONxvEpp9FWs/BZ9jpOlkdfSO2lwE6edfUFYuBqzyOF0MCPiKLCxHBeABvSKRfJaMdKe2nHLlwOVt5Mw== x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CY1PR13MB0502; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(432015011)(81415001)(601004)(5005006)(8121501046)(3002001); SRVR:CY1PR13MB0502; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:CY1PR13MB0502; x-forefront-prvs: 06793E740F x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(7070003)(6009001)(189002)(199003)(5001960100002)(105586002)(40100003)(2656002)(19625215002)(189998001)(19627405001)(33656002)(2900100001)(101416001)(5002640100001)(106116001)(77156002)(64706001)(62966003)(99286002)(10400500002)(16236675004)(77096005)(86362001)(92566002)(106356001)(68736005)(5007970100001)(97736004)(450100001)(87572001)(4001540100001)(110136002)(229853001)(107886002)(81156007)(5001830100001)(76576001)(5003600100002)(122556002)(5001860100001)(102836002)(74316001)(54356999)(50986999)(558084003)(46102003)(87936001)(5001920100001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1901; SCL:1; SRVR:CY1PR13MB0502; H:CY1PR13MB0503.namprd13.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: outlook.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:23 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM FILETIME=[EECA1CC0:01D0DF5D] Subject: [Shop-talk] Is any one near...... Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net ....Canton, New York? Or do you know someone who lives near there? I know it's a long shot but if so, please reply off list so that I may ask you a question. Thanks! tim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Aug 27 14:51:43 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1626F258AD3F for ; Thu, 27 Aug 2015 14:51:43 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-vk0-f41.google.com (mail-vk0-f41.google.com [209.85.213.41]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 644E2258AD14 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 2015 14:49:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by vkhf67 with SMTP id f67so692807vkh.1 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 2015 13:49:24 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=+QoIgbZOtM9glA7k2/C4oXosZELkeiOcH5kr5DNBh+E=; b=F1iCHQGGkxBM4qHnRtXzr1XOCqZ3UpVN074JTTlJEWycutboyhYztrKd0nDy9tG+jt b3pHguS3JxmrVqpv5nz60mIOnQSOWT62EbDDp089SexKl1s32wQ0wC35YTxREzNThEe6 +GQdMmUrIbLiF9Is9s4OEBmXLZdvjnA2cBhk30DTXsztR9WIXNmmnqrBtWeZFLQrpzul dhnli8fAb+1/JUpYF4pUCO1mJ1lwQh9jBMdUQy4pMj0GsmurXL625uxHoqF7rIlDt8hU f3Yv6hljbUxppFZ2vPbEv6ioOTmHqeKxv17Xy35f9sRS0ZkERL29kP/NONx5vXOzheR+ 3wxw== zv12mr6999270vdc.14.1440708564411; Thu, 27 Aug 2015 13:49:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.31.200.1 with HTTP; Thu, 27 Aug 2015 13:48:45 -0700 (PDT) References: From: Scott Hall Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 15:48:45 -0500 To: Jim Franklin Cc: "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Ever sell off all your tools? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Jim, I just spent 2.5 years in apartments for work--two years in Coral Gables (Miami), six months in the snowy north. Had a co-worker that did nearly the same thing and said he loved it. ...I did not. There was always a loose doorknob/faucet/whatever that required that tool that I had but left in the house 500 miles away. There would be some mini-project I wanted to deal with but no tools (and no where to work). The only time I liked it was when the fridge in the apartment died. I had no tools and no multimeter. I just called the landlord. Took way too long and three trips and the guy left a incredible mess behind, but I don't know anything about refrigerators anyway. Car stuff was the worst. Oil change? There is _no_way_ I'm taking it to someone to put God knows what cheap oil and filter in it for $69.99, or $299 for new brake pads, etc. So everything meant a 500 mile (one way) trip, sometimes in a car I'd prefer not to be driving. I just bought a house partially just to get out of apartments. Yes, I might blow up the house changing gas lines (actually, I haven't so far, but I hook up the new heater this weekend), but at least I'm not waiting, wondering when the slack-jawed moron will finally show up to do a half-assed job. If there's going to be a slack-jawed moron half-assing it, I'll be that moron, at least. I think it's just a personality thing. If you think you might like it, you probably will. I know my co-worker said he had lots more free time, and enjoyed it. If I had mechanics and repairmen that I knew to do good work, timely and at reasonable prices I might like it more. I don't, so I didn't. Scott On Sat, Aug 22, 2015 at 6:33 PM, Jim Franklin wrote: > I turned 50 this year, and realized the past 25 years were one long fix-it > session. While I made a living at it, and saved some $ DIYing, I'm > contemplating moving into a condo in the city and just writing that monthly > HOA check. > > I'm curious if any of you have considered this, and what the outcome was. > None > of the tools are sentimental, or (with the exception of the Festo circular > saw) high end. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/scott.hall.personal@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Aug 30 15:30:02 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0B04258573A for ; Sun, 30 Aug 2015 15:30:02 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from homiemail-a69.g.dreamhost.com (sub5.mail.dreamhost.com [208.113.200.129]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2631425853DD for ; Sun, 30 Aug 2015 15:25:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from homiemail-a69.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a69.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B4DF400F771F for ; Sun, 30 Aug 2015 14:25:25 -0700 (PDT) :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:subject:message-id:date :to:mime-version; s=groupwbench.org; bh=B8ZURgbLRLEPz8sL35ji+8C9 6fc=; b=WOwLMHU3becnLxkPwzAfFbgvyUmpdFyw5eO9YtmV/Q5vUoTzhatu48lO ++WYUTxsAcJvf9Zoggbf5c2tnsCXS5EHa76mAsYCJZiHnu2vzpXOogtqxc7XrZg3 tvbrCCRdvV/nLeHHzozW2zmwzkKk3650giydaW+MZTrXT63aK2I= Received: from jims-imac.home (pool-98-118-108-149.bstnma.fios.verizon.net [98.118.108.149]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jamesf@groupwbench.org) by homiemail-a69.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 937D5400F2A08 for ; Sun, 30 Aug 2015 14:25:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Franklin Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 17:25:23 -0400 To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] Your personal positive experience removing hydraulic fluid from asphalt? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I.e., I can and have looked at all the remedies on the internet :-) Landscaper has a POS equipment. It's been there for a week, baking in the sun, good and dry now. What has worked for you? thanks, jim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive