From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 6 17:28:40 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD5E52580BBB for ; Mon, 6 Apr 2015 17:28:40 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-po-10v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-po-10v.sys.comcast.net [96.114.154.169]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D72E025804B2 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 2015 16:38:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-po-05v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.229]) by resqmta-po-10v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id Cmjy1q0044xDoy801mkBDB; Mon, 06 Apr 2015 22:44:11 +0000 Received: from [10.0.0.3] ([98.247.129.48]) by resomta-po-05v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id CmkA1q00C12niAi01mkAJZ; Mon, 06 Apr 2015 22:44:11 +0000 Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2015 15:44:10 -0700 From: Mike User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 To: Shop Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] dogs Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net http://fb-694.lifebuzz.com/27-struggles/ -- _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 6 18:32:39 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CFF82584661 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 2015 18:32:39 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-po-07v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-po-07v.sys.comcast.net [96.114.154.166]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6031225806C9 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 2015 18:16:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-po-13v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.237]) by resqmta-po-07v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id CoMg1q00357bBgG01oN3dV; Tue, 07 Apr 2015 00:22:03 +0000 Received: from [10.0.0.3] ([98.247.129.48]) by resomta-po-13v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id CoN21q00F12niAi01oN2uZ; Tue, 07 Apr 2015 00:22:03 +0000 Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2015 17:22:02 -0700 From: Mike User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 To: Shop Talk References: <55230C3A.4050505@comcast.net> s=q20140121; t=1428366123; bh=nzm4zu+cXiH2QWsJafzRgjbxKY14Kj+jT0BMso+CFM0=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:Subject: Content-Type; b=gftPjUBfyimuWGzAT0tnkKr0RKw8o7RO3y8votpEijK5ZpZyLyK5ZIp7jR3y2geq7 2aMcYN4wzbS1Apd5dvQi61krp4t4hs4LJd+e19wEkxIUPpTVCfOWxuf8k1EbnzZN5c fJOG+917t4+KLiyJRFv8RNxpxl5a6jUq8PYlQyCeESaAUXASZQ8NAlqOhbPtRlJMp4 4S9K+nRw0UFhvV/R5pNzjsKsvjIjbdvLV82QnnyQ8qzS5qQUec0YYK/6hjLp21zi0y 39qoMUaNZSC0rxHMstg75rOyTmpEQjvvV6v84ReNLiTeJ+hDxOBgMt9EF3DT+xHYKg gz0O2CzGNPr0g== Subject: [Shop-talk] Fwd: dogs Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Oops. Wrong address. Sorry about that. Mike _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 12 13:54:37 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D1E52585A95 for ; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 13:54:37 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from filter01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net (filter01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net [66.133.183.226]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C019A2584532 for ; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 13:40:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by filter01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5EF210520E for ; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 19:46:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from relay02.roch.ny.frontiernet.net ([66.133.182.165]) by localhost (filter01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net [66.133.183.226]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id BoE6KMwyLROu for ; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 19:46:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unknown [50.34.108.246]) by relay02.roch.ny.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 7FBDD19CE5 for ; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 19:46:39 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 12:46:42 -0700 From: Dave Cavanaugh User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 To: "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: [Shop-talk] Axle ratio? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I have a 2004 GMC Sierra extended cab, short bed. I would like to find the axle ratio and engine size. I am pretty sure the engine is a 5.3 Vortec, but I'm having trouble finding the axle ratio. None of the codes in the glove box match anything I read on line. Any pointers? I will need to be towing a trailer quite a bit in the future and need to know how heavy I can go. Thanks _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 12 15:38:40 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8EDB25857B6 for ; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 15:38:40 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from bradakis.com (50-198-190-18-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.198.190.18]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08CEC25850BA for ; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 15:14:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bradakis.com (50-198-190-18-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.198.190.18]) by bradakis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB2492C0251 for ; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 15:20:04 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 15:20:03 -0600 From: Mark J Bradakis User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:35.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/35.0 SeaMonkey/2.32.1 To: "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" References: <552ACBA2.9060301@frontier.com> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Axle ratio? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Dave Cavanaugh wrote: > I have a 2004 GMC Sierra extended cab, short bed. I would like to find the axle ratio and engine size. The engine should be encoded in the VIN. For the axle ratio you may have to actually get under it and compare turns of the wheels to turns of the driveshaft. And thanks for reminding me about shop-talk, I forgot this one yesterday. Hang on a few minutes. mjb. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 12 15:39:36 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B60F225857D2 for ; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 15:39:36 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from bradakis.com (50-198-190-18-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.198.190.18]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 141FF25850BA for ; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 15:15:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bradakis.com (50-198-190-18-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.198.190.18]) by bradakis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68BF52C0251 for ; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 15:21:04 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 15:21:04 -0600 From: Mark J Bradakis User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:35.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/35.0 SeaMonkey/2.32.1 To: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net Subject: [Shop-talk] A couple of dozen Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net April, 1991. Mariah Carey and Whitney Houston had top hits. The Soviet Union is crumbling. The Gulf War begins. And on the 11th the domain Team.Net is registered. Happy birthday to us, 24 years and still kicking. Formed out of the Usenet rec.autos tree, it started with just 2 lists, autox and british-cars. It became large enough and busy enough that the officials at the U noticed that a large amount of network traffic was coming from one certain machine in my office. That is what prompted the move to a private server, which has been in my basement for many years. Well, we are NOT running on the same server from back then, which I recall was one of the first 120 Megahertz systems in the valley outside of universities. With the CS departments work with Hewlett-Packard, I had a connection. A lot has changed over the years, folks have come and gone, some have been hanging out here for decades. We've lost a few good ones, but many of us have found lasting friendships from list communications. Back in the early days there wasn't much besides Team.Net. I think the 1997 SCCA Solo II nationals had something like 60% of the entrants being autox list subscribers. Those were the days. But still here, still providing a valuable service to those who use it. Thanks to all of us for making Team.Net what it is. Happy Birthday. mjb. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 12 15:56:37 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F38625850BA for ; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 15:56:37 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qk0-f174.google.com (mail-qk0-f174.google.com [209.85.220.174]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 204B02580787 for ; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 15:25:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by qkhg7 with SMTP id g7so143852903qkh.2 for ; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 14:31:58 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=7JEfzLWY/xAEcYbOIjZXbJKaqb1LnLYofxumhJZw8k4=; b=eVjH6fQrH09u+OKQwRLSLZxZP0o6SQvGnY/O8YVAZvW7FDdWVL3OcT5JZR4E3JKg3o mp7jDmBDinKecRTXUM2fk4zHE/5eJmaUI69LwPizTeGmvr2iI1GLz3Z5CmNJb9AfU/mB H6hce4vbn0Bh9JegUcuXhz9BhN0WifN8lX04Bn7XUEHDvMzHl7Sfr3gfozjm7dCJrNtx DOt3QhT6LdaBEfgX4Uqdy5YbCl1uUXXUO15rxjH7vs+OP9mmAgU4V5QhQ1dtBLzNC4/J rBzeNhe9D57rSxV3tIVI3wBBtycWKZA2oV6Xu6X9eS4ADabbeEoAPVuXl1wMqQ7DNXoJ a8HA== n40mr23677134qkh.56.1428874318427; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 14:31:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.96.181.1 with HTTP; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 14:31:58 -0700 (PDT) References: <552ACBA2.9060301@frontier.com> Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 16:31:58 -0500 From: John Innis To: Dave Cavanaugh Cc: "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Axle ratio? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net There should be a sticker inside the driver door jamb that shows the trailer capacity of your specific truck. That sticker (if it is still there) is specific to your VIN, so if it is missing you MIGHT be able to get a dealer to look up all the pertinent information. The RPO codes in the glove box SHOULD tell you your axle ratio, but you have to find the decoder specific to your year. Of course the low tech solution is to lift the rear end and see how many turns of the prop shaft are required to get one revolution of the rear wheels. On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 2:46 PM, Dave Cavanaugh wrote: > I have a 2004 GMC Sierra extended cab, short bed. I would like to find > the axle ratio and engine size. I am pretty sure the engine is a 5.3 > Vortec, but I'm having trouble finding the axle ratio. None of the codes in > the glove box match anything I read on line. Any pointers? I will need to > be towing a trailer quite a bit in the future and need to know how heavy I > can go. > > Thanks > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/ > options/shop-talk/jdinnis@gmail.com > > -- ================================= = Never offend people with style when you = = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = ================================= _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 12 16:10:23 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 499CB2584E9D for ; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 16:10:23 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from homiemail-a46.g.dreamhost.com (unknown [208.113.200.129]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA49425807DD for ; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 15:49:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from homiemail-a46.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a46.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0B563E405B for ; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 14:55:30 -0700 (PDT) content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; s= groupwbench.org; bh=et3KF/6aSu01n7j843PcRSMTP4w=; b=cY+9ryw31xSF ZERXdwAxNIDOZoYSTgK70Q00rSH39ElL0ska0fZhpl4OVDmZL3lP8/4zNlkLQORe onH17XsEQV1sInqGJDW+9Jk7in1k2eO09pakiyUgb9hYeOTXEPGz2JQAdOGc5alf c0sOPgWnWOIqFQD5cKV4oM4Mn/KY7PI= Received: from jims-imac.home (pool-98-118-108-149.bstnma.fios.verizon.net [98.118.108.149]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jamesf@groupwbench.org) by homiemail-a46.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6556F3E4057 for ; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 14:55:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Franklin Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 17:55:28 -0400 References: <552ACBA2.9060301@frontier.com> To: "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Axle ratio? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Apr 12, 2015, at 3:46 PM, Dave Cavanaugh wrote: > I have a 2004 GMC Sierra extended cab, short bed. I would like to find the axle ratio and engine size. I am pretty sure the engine is a 5.3 Vortec, but I'm having trouble finding the axle ratio. None of the codes in the glove box match anything I read on line. Any pointers? I will need to be towing a trailer quite a bit in the future and need to know how heavy I can go. If you can't read the tag on the rear end, you can do a quick and dirty guesstimtae by counting the number of times the driveshaft turns to make one revolution of the rear wheel (you'll need to keep one rear wheel from turning if it isn't a limited slip). The more accurate way is to chalk the driveshaft and rear wheel, then spin the driveshaft, and count the number of turns of each until the chalk marks line up again, then divide the smaller number into the larger. Helps to have a second set of eyes for the latter method. The first should get you close enough to match to a published number like 3.23, 3.73, etc. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 12 16:39:55 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7518258451C for ; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 16:39:55 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cdptpa-oedge-vip.email.rr.com (cdptpa-outbound-snat.email.rr.com [107.14.166.225]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4ED625806EA for ; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 16:20:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.248.153.253] ([172.248.153.253:1923] helo=rypc) by cdptpa-oedge02 (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.5.0.35861 r(Momo-dev:tip)) with ESMTP id 1F/72-32424-611FA255; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 22:26:30 +0000 From: "Randall" To: "'Dave Cavanaugh'" , Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 15:26:29 -0700 Thread-Index: AdB1W2KSNiPxTFfCQiGYIhzJQOEwIQAEz5CQ Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Axle ratio? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > Any > pointers? I will > need to be towing a trailer quite a bit in the future and > need to know > how heavy I can go. Since you won't be worried about the manufacturer's warranty, my suggestion is to get gauges for coolant, engine oil, and transmission fluid temperature. Keep an eye on them, as long as they don't overheat you can tow a LOT more than the factory rating. Slow down & use lower gears as necessary to keep everything within range. If it pulls too hard on the flat, you may need to always go down a gear while towing, and perhaps two or three gears while climbing grades. I've gone through the Rockies several times now, towing several times the rated tow capacity, and got by fine. Once when it was really hot outside, we wound up grinding up a grade in 1st gear at 8 mph, but we got there. However that was with a manual transmission, so I only worried about oil & coolant temps. -- Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 12 18:53:42 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB92F258524B for ; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 18:53:42 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from dogbert2.mail.megageek.com (unknown [69.34.94.16]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EF4F2580861 for ; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 18:23:04 -0600 (MDT) References: <552AE1C0.3050703@bradakis.com> To: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net From: eric@megageek.com Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 20:09:26 -0400 7.0.1|January 17, 2006) at 04/12/2015 20:10:06, Serialize complete at 04/12/2015 20:10:06 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] A couple of dozen Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net While I wasn't here in the very beginning, I just checked my personal archives and found the very first email I got from the list. It was about a sale on lifts that I ended up buying for my garage! I do find it interesting that many of the early adopters of the internet list servers still band together. I'm on many lists that started in the early nineties. Now a days, most FORMATS don't last 10 years. Does anyone still have a myspace page? What about their Geocities site? I'm glad I just bought a domain name early on and ran my own webserver/mail server 12/1998 is my domain's b'day. I never have to worry about what is about to end. 8>) Have a great day everyone. Get out and enjoy the shop. HAPPY B'DAY! Sent from my Commodore 64 on a 2400 Baud Modem. Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson From: Mark J Bradakis To: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net Date: 04/12/2015 05:26 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] A couple of dozen Sent by: "Shop-talk" April, 1991. Mariah Carey and Whitney Houston had top hits. The Soviet Union is crumbling. The Gulf War begins. And on the 11th the domain Team.Net is registered. Happy birthday to us, 24 years and still kicking. Formed out of the Usenet rec.autos tree, it started with just 2 lists, autox and british-cars. It became large enough and busy enough that the officials at the U noticed that a large amount of network traffic was coming from one certain machine in my office. That is what prompted the move to a private server, which has been in my basement for many years. Well, we are NOT running on the same server from back then, which I recall was one of the first 120 Megahertz systems in the valley outside of universities. With the CS departments work with Hewlett-Packard, I had a connection. A lot has changed over the years, folks have come and gone, some have been hanging out here for decades. We've lost a few good ones, but many of us have found lasting friendships from list communications. Back in the early days there wasn't much besides Team.Net. I think the 1997 SCCA Solo II nationals had something like 60% of the entrants being autox list subscribers. Those were the days. But still here, still providing a valuable service to those who use it. Thanks to all of us for making Team.Net what it is. Happy Birthday. mjb. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 12 20:30:49 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2FF225845EE for ; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 20:30:48 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from BLU004-OMC2S6.hotmail.com (blu004-omc2s6.hotmail.com [65.55.111.81]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67E1F2580498 for ; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 19:37:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from BLU436-SMTP40 ([65.55.111.72]) by BLU004-OMC2S6.hotmail.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.22751); Sun, 12 Apr 2015 18:43:41 -0700 From: Jack Brooks To: References: <552AE1C0.3050703@bradakis.com> Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 18:43:38 -0700 Thread-Index: AdB1agQhDwOpjniRQGO1wpl34aphcgAID9nw FILETIME=[4409A0D0:01D0758B] Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] A couple of dozen Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Listers, To help keep it all going strong, please click on the "donate" link Mark posted below and send him a few bucks. Hardware costs keep going up and stuff is always wearing out and/or breaking. To make it easy, here is the link Mark posted below: Thank you, Jack -----Original Message----- From: Shop-talk [mailto:shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Mark J Bradakis Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2015 2:21 PM To: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net Subject: [Shop-talk] A couple of dozen April, 1991. Mariah Carey and Whitney Houston had top hits. The Soviet Union is crumbling. The Gulf War begins. And on the 11th the domain Team.Net is registered. Happy birthday to us, 24 years and still kicking. Formed out of the Usenet rec.autos tree, it started with just 2 lists, autox and british-cars. It became large enough and busy enough that the officials at the U noticed that a large amount of network traffic was coming from one certain machine in my office. That is what prompted the move to a private server, which has been in my basement for many years. Well, we are NOT running on the same server from back then, which I recall was one of the first 120 Megahertz systems in the valley outside of universities. With the CS departments work with Hewlett-Packard, I had a connection. A lot has changed over the years, folks have come and gone, some have been hanging out here for decades. We've lost a few good ones, but many of us have found lasting friendships from list communications. Back in the early days there wasn't much besides Team.Net. I think the 1997 SCCA Solo II nationals had something like 60% of the entrants being autox list subscribers. Those were the days. But still here, still providing a valuable service to those who use it. Thanks to all of us for making Team.Net what it is. Happy Birthday. mjb. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jibrooks@live.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 12 22:40:52 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 344B825843DC for ; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 22:40:52 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail.milleredp.com (unknown [198.144.208.110]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B760258043F for ; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 22:06:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [10.1.2.100] ([::ffff:10.1.2.100]) (AUTH: PLAIN jem, TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,128bits,AES128-SHA) by mail.milleredp.com with ESMTPSA; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 21:12:37 -0700 id 000000000028001F.00000000552B4235.00001B15 Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 21:12:07 -0700 From: John Miller User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <552ACBA2.9060301@frontier.com> <6B87EE23-A78B-4369-98E9-A88B9977AF0E@groupwbench.org> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Axle ratio? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > If you can't read the tag on the rear end, you can do a quick and dirty > guesstimtae by counting the number of times the driveshaft turns to make one > revolution It's gonna be 3.73-ish or 4.10-ish, I'm guessing. The chassis and powertrain are the same either way, but the GM tow rating is based on what the engine can pull. Know from personal experience that combo will pull a 6000lb (steel-frame wood-deck open car trailer with 3500 on the trailer plus a bunch in the bed) over the lumps between California and Oregon quite handily with the 4.10. My '03 2500 Suburban 4x4 with the 6-liter LQ4 is rated at something like 7500lb with the 3.73 it's got, and 11K with the 4.10, the chassis/brakes/cooling are the same, it's all about the ability of the thing to get out of its own way when loaded. The 6-liter LQ4 doesn't mind having the crap beat out of it, but sometimes you really do have to beat the crap out if it. Shame they never offered the damn Sub with a Duratec. Swap cost is prohibitive, an Edelbrock TVS1900 blower for the LQ4 is $5K-ish but it's got 150K miles on it so... John. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 13 05:58:00 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 223E92580416 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2015 05:58:00 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ie0-f179.google.com (mail-ie0-f179.google.com [209.85.223.179]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C615525802EE for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2015 05:38:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by iejt8 with SMTP id t8so61850551iej.2 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2015 04:44:02 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=V8LM/dR70Uaqj1Unjqrp3soc3m8rsRf46FEyRe/JZgA=; b=KAVzX5SIKE3oZVn2GV5OEEqXSA3yWvqp02/tp3VNg+m79ZMmvEzzJyWL/M6ApzCVlW Q9KXcaZlFsTTdeCkg6bsUVGnRc4U1dtyluN5rwOAwmBYxEwxBemY8/CMoQfyvlY8FByY 1vlk3Kds+2gQbQitRQHWSXWb67crsri2yNF+ndGdIEasE93O66W970JZGL2qABAjpqpN QO7GEuhOCdw5kpdLI0hl5M3FFk7eHFL/BTi+1luHtbAMZRxAktjzdbqj3FblLY/yTSdR v2law8l/4/mc/oSqfI2S5URqDX4A6BROE9LwkJ+nqN3lZPPzjVX+cj7sB8sYsuts0x08 5MEw== bx19mr15876383igb.43.1428925442030; Mon, 13 Apr 2015 04:44:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.108.109 with HTTP; Mon, 13 Apr 2015 04:44:01 -0700 (PDT) References: <552ACBA2.9060301@frontier.com> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 07:44:01 -0400 From: Jeff Scarbrough To: Dave Cavanaugh Cc: "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Axle ratio? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 3:46 PM, Dave Cavanaugh wrote: > Any pointers? I will need to be towing a trailer quite a bit in the future > and need to know how heavy I can go. While worrying about the go, don't neglect the whoa. Make sure your brakes are adequate to stop any mass that you have set in motion. Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 13 07:08:57 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 270EA2584586 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2015 07:08:57 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from dogbert2.mail.megageek.com (nj-69-34-94-16.sta.embarqhsd.net [69.34.94.16]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD194258082B for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2015 06:08:56 -0600 (MDT) To: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net From: eric@megageek.com Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 07:55:41 -0400 7.0.1|January 17, 2006) at 04/13/2015 07:55:54, Serialize complete at 04/13/2015 07:55:54 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fw: Axle ratio? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Jeff writes... >While worrying about the go, don't neglect the whoa. Make sure your >brakes are adequate to stop any mass that you have set in motion. I can't agree more with this. I was assuming that the trailer has brakes. Make sure they work (and the actuator whether surge or electronic.) FWIW, a truck with a heavy load on a trailer with properly functioning brakes can normally stop in LESS distance than just the truck alone. Sent from my Commodore 64 on a 2400 Baud Modem. Eric P _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 13 07:45:06 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E94D22585B78 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2015 07:45:05 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from p3plsmtpa07-07.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (p3plsmtpa07-07.prod.phx3.secureserver.net [173.201.192.236]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CF5A25804B5 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2015 07:03:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PatsOffice ([184.105.18.14]) by p3plsmtpa07-07.prod.phx3.secureserver.net with id FR9r1q00W0JCzvc01R9snW; Mon, 13 Apr 2015 06:09:52 -0700 From: "Pat Horne" To: "'Jack Brooks'" , References: <552AE1C0.3050703@bradakis.com> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 08:09:51 -0500 Thread-Index: AdB1agQhDwOpjniRQGO1wpl34aphcgAID9nwABgWgQA= Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] A couple of dozen Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thanks for the memories! I didn't realize how early I got in. It was 1994. Wonder where all the rest of those on lone are now. Tom Walter is still near Austin but got out of the Roadster business and into building his own plane. Anyone else know where other early folks are? Peace, Pat -----Original Message----- From: Shop-talk [mailto:shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jack Brooks Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2015 8:44 PM To: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] A couple of dozen Listers, To help keep it all going strong, please click on the "donate" link Mark posted below and send him a few bucks. Hardware costs keep going up and stuff is always wearing out and/or breaking. To make it easy, here is the link Mark posted below: Thank you, Jack -----Original Message----- From: Shop-talk [mailto:shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Mark J Bradakis Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2015 2:21 PM To: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net Subject: [Shop-talk] A couple of dozen April, 1991. Mariah Carey and Whitney Houston had top hits. The Soviet Union is crumbling. The Gulf War begins. And on the 11th the domain Team.Net is registered. Happy birthday to us, 24 years and still kicking. Formed out of the Usenet rec.autos tree, it started with just 2 lists, autox and british-cars. It became large enough and busy enough that the officials at the U noticed that a large amount of network traffic was coming from one certain machine in my office. That is what prompted the move to a private server, which has been in my basement for many years. Well, we are NOT running on the same server from back then, which I recall was one of the first 120 Megahertz systems in the valley outside of universities. With the CS departments work with Hewlett-Packard, I had a connection. A lot has changed over the years, folks have come and gone, some have been hanging out here for decades. We've lost a few good ones, but many of us have found lasting friendships from list communications. Back in the early days there wasn't much besides Team.Net. I think the 1997 SCCA Solo II nationals had something like 60% of the entrants being autox list subscribers. Those were the days. But still here, still providing a valuable service to those who use it. Thanks to all of us for making Team.Net what it is. Happy Birthday. mjb. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jibrooks@live.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat@hornesystemstx.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 13 12:56:43 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE1162584905 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2015 12:56:43 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from itonami.pair.com (itonami.pair.com [209.68.2.178]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D26D258032A for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2015 12:08:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by itonami.pair.com (Postfix, from userid 3198) id 1A4D78FF14; Mon, 13 Apr 2015 14:14:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by itonami.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 189888FC0F for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2015 14:14:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 14:14:44 -0400 (EDT) From: David Hillman To: "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" References: <552ACBA2.9060301@frontier.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.02 (BSF 1266 2009-07-14) Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Axle ratio? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Sun, 12 Apr 2015, Dave Cavanaugh wrote: > I have a 2004 GMC Sierra extended cab, short bed. I would like to find the > axle ratio and engine size. I am pretty sure the engine is a 5.3 Vortec, but > I'm having trouble finding the axle ratio. None of the codes in the glove box > match anything I read on line. Any pointers? I will need to be towing a > trailer quite a bit in the future and need to know how heavy I can go. Have you owned the truck since new? If so, check the window sticker. If not, I would say that there's no way you can be sure the original diff, whatever it was, remains. So, in that case, you have to spin the driveshaft and count the wheel rotations. and Eric wrote... > FWIW, a truck with a heavy load on a trailer with properly functioning > brakes can normally stop in LESS distance than just the truck alone. I do not believe this, and it is contrary to my experience, and that of basically everyone I can find. It is also the opposite of what you are taught when you get your CDL. I'm aware of the simple physics argument. Simple physics does not do a very good job of describing the interaction between modern rubber tires and imperfect road surfaces, among other things. No way, no how have any of my trucks stopped faster with a loaded trailer than alone. If you believe the opposite, why are racecars light? -- David Hillman _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 13 13:51:20 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E4A92584A8D for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2015 13:51:20 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from dogbert2.mail.megageek.com (nj-69-34-94-16.sta.embarqhsd.net [69.34.94.16]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D922F2584840 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2015 13:23:04 -0600 (MDT) To: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net From: eric@megageek.com Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 15:09:58 -0400 7.0.1|January 17, 2006) at 04/13/2015 15:10:00, Serialize complete at 04/13/2015 15:10:00 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fw: Axle ratio? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net David writes... > I'm aware of the simple physics argument. Simple physics does not do a >very good job of describing the interaction between modern rubber tires >and imperfect road surfaces, among other things. > No way, no how have any of my trucks stopped faster with a loaded >trailer than alone. Cool, an old fashion debate! Actually, my statement was flawed. There are times when loaded vs unloaded takes longer. Looking at the NHTSA chart, it seems I was wrong more than right, but not always wrong. https://books.google.com/books?id=I511spiUbQsC&pg=PA18&lpg=PA18&dq=stopping+distance+of+loading+trucks+veruses+bobtails&source=bl&ots=p_4qyM2kAx&sig=7R-dIFTJjsyBgy2yCVogP6z3C6k&hl=en&sa=X&ei=IhcsVY_uBO6LsQT6goCQCg&ved=0CCEQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=stopping%20distance%20of%20loading%20trucks%20veruses%20bobtails&f=false But many other sites agree with me... http://www.thetruckersreport.com/truckingindustryforum/questions-from-new-drivers/143450-empty-trailers-take-longer-stop.html Than you ask >If you believe the opposite, why are racecars light? Because they aren't competing in how fast they can stop, but how fast they can go. 8>) So, in the end, I was kinda wrong but that doesn't mean I'm a bad guy. 8>0 Eric P _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 13 16:05:26 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF8122584699 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2015 16:05:26 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-pd0-f172.google.com (mail-pd0-f172.google.com [209.85.192.172]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57D3B258462E for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2015 15:41:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by pdbqd1 with SMTP id qd1so7862951pdb.2 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2015 14:47:04 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=cgCmoLAEtdvC4xHF6XCcajz6YUvIOMdiqZGui/E/j4o=; b=PmDhHON0LZjCUsM1Oqrp/ac3/Z6on3GwJJUQLU3NzZplk5Yng1KxX3Frf6/0Bz1+xg hvAnBspuvRtUnfsVyQdozlgYzhMf9FdY6LyYrUkpdBHByC6zeDCHXJupMbKl+hkl6nkO 9h49EyHFHoZmhKc7MmrEe3VT3Lvtk0egHZnVbyDQCUeN0OcEeXrL+8sNzh2e2G+xu5lg u9SAcTyoW04z+PMe6q5Y/3XiSEoXu7ykBMG/HWyUm8aHJOSzkDjIx1VF3sp6DaB7OTUY 6mpztFG+FASKWKI0NDoIeS3qUO/u9L11hnR0s/JhuHJzpnVDzrUiMA+Ivz9K7CN7nfhE fcgA== w4mr30481989pdp.148.1428961624404; Mon, 13 Apr 2015 14:47:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.75.104 with HTTP; Mon, 13 Apr 2015 14:47:04 -0700 (PDT) References: <552ACBA2.9060301@frontier.com> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 16:47:04 -0500 From: David Scheidt To: David Hillman Cc: "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Axle ratio? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 1:14 PM, David Hillman wrote: > On Sun, 12 Apr 2015, Dave Cavanaugh wrote: >> >> > and Eric wrote... >> >> FWIW, a truck with a heavy load on a trailer with properly functioning >> brakes can normally stop in LESS distance than just the truck alone. > > > I do not believe this, and it is contrary to my experience, and that of > basically everyone I can find. It is also the opposite of what you are > taught when you get your CDL. > The issue, historically, has been that brake proportioning wasn't adjusted for changing trailer weight. So brakes got set up so they'd work right when the trailer was loaded. When it was empty, they were too aggressive, and you couldn't brake the tractor as hard before the trailer brakes locked up. Better proportioning valves, and for the last 20 years, ABS, have made this less of a problem for heavy duty trucks. It's still an issue on smaller trailers; if you have an electric brake, you can make adjustments, but it's still bad. In the wet, a loaded tire can have somewhat less bad traction than it would when unloaded, which can improve braking performance. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 13 16:05:55 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7672B2584AAA for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2015 16:05:55 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from itonami.pair.com (itonami.pair.com [209.68.2.178]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A68062584C1D for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2015 15:51:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by itonami.pair.com (Postfix, from userid 3198) id 59B7C8FF25; Mon, 13 Apr 2015 17:57:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by itonami.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 581008FC0F for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2015 17:57:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 17:57:44 -0400 (EDT) From: David Hillman To: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.02 (BSF 1266 2009-07-14) Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Fw: Axle ratio? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Mon, 13 Apr 2015, eric@megageek.com wrote: > Because they aren't competing in how fast they can stop, but how fast they > can go. 8>) So you are suggesting that weight only positively effects traction used to stop, not used to go or turn? How does the weight know when "turn off" and "turn on"? That's obviously not possible. If weight improves braking traction, it has to also improve traction in all other phases. If weight were beneficial overall, racecars would be as heavy as practical... especially ones with excess horsepower. They are not. Also, that link discusses the relative stopping distances of loaded v unloaded semis with trailers. And much of it focuses on staying in control, not actual stopping distances. That's more than a little different than the original claim, which was a "heavy load" behind a truck stopping quicker, versus the truck alone. That is a no contest. Especially if we are talking about pickup type trucks. According to pickuptrucks.com, my F150 will stop in 132 feet from 60mph. Other half-tons are between 137 (GMC) and 150 (Toyota). In order to match that while towing my 20' box ( ~7,000 lbs loaded ), I'd have to stop in ~8 car-lengths (nose to tail). To beat it, I'd have to approach -1G. I have had a couple emergency stops, and that is not happening. Not even with a brand new trailer. -- David Hillman _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 13 21:21:55 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 833B62585139 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2015 21:21:55 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from filter04.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net (filter04.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net [199.224.80.234]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB1D6258071F for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2015 21:21:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by filter04.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A687328F0E2 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 03:27:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from relay03.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net ([199.224.80.246]) by localhost (filter04.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net [199.224.80.234]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id OW3rRxKmVYqI for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 03:27:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unknown [50.34.108.246]) by relay03.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id EBF44940AE for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 03:27:37 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 20:27:42 -0700 From: Dave Cavanaugh User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 To: "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" References: <552ACBA2.9060301@frontier.com> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Axle ratio? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Amazingly enough I was able to find it. My wife was able to dig out the file, and the window sticker was there. It is a 5300 Vortec with 3.42 (locking) rear axle and a 6200 GVW rating. It also has "heavy duty trailering equip" which I assume means a transmission cooler and a nice receiver hitch and light plug. Given these details, any other stuff I might want to consider adding before towing several loads of shop tools (table saws, shapers, etc) over a bunch of mountains in western Oregon and southern Idaho? On 4/13/2015 11:14 AM, David Hillman wrote: > > Have you owned the truck since new? If so, check the window sticker. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 14 10:54:55 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 680D225806C8 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 10:54:55 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail.milleredp.com (fw.milleredp.com [198.144.208.110]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC0CC25803D3 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 10:53:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [10.1.2.100] ([::ffff:10.1.2.100]) (AUTH: PLAIN jem, TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,128bits,AES128-SHA) by mail.milleredp.com with ESMTPSA; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 09:59:12 -0700 id 00000000002800AD.00000000552D4760.00007B82 Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 09:58:42 -0700 From: John Miller User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <552ACBA2.9060301@frontier.com> <552C892E.3050608@frontier.com> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Axle ratio? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > Given these details, any other stuff I might want to consider adding > before towing several loads of shop tools (table saws, shapers, etc) > over a bunch of mountains in western Oregon and southern Idaho? Stereo Bluetooth. John. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 14 12:57:05 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96E752585E65 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 12:57:05 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from itonami.pair.com (itonami.pair.com [209.68.2.178]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3159C258467C for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 12:32:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by itonami.pair.com (Postfix, from userid 3198) id 67E788FF12; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 14:38:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by itonami.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 675658FC14 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 14:38:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 14:38:58 -0400 (EDT) From: David Hillman To: "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" References: <552ACBA2.9060301@frontier.com> <552C892E.3050608@frontier.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.02 (BSF 1266 2009-07-14) Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Axle ratio? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Mon, 13 Apr 2015, Dave Cavanaugh wrote: > Amazingly enough I was able to find it. My wife was able to dig out the > file, and the window sticker was there. It is a 5300 Vortec with 3.42 > (locking) rear axle and a 6200 GVW rating. It also has "heavy duty > trailering equip" which I assume means a transmission cooler and a nice > receiver hitch and light plug. Not sure if you already figured this out or not, but according to the super-handy Trailer-Life Towing Guide*, your tow rating is 7,100 lbs ( 1500 Ext Cab RWD SB with b,f options... top line of right column, page 4 in the 2004 book ). > Given these details, any other stuff I might want to consider adding > before towing several loads of shop tools (table saws, shapers, etc) > over a bunch of mountains in western Oregon and southern Idaho? I think there's a whole bunch of relevant detail omitted here. What kind of trailer? How old? Does it have brakes? What kind? How heavy is it empty? How much weight are you planning to load into it? Does your truck have a brake controller? If not, you're going to want to install a Tekonsha Prodigy. Some people swear by weight distributing hitches. Some people even use them all the time, regardless of load. I have one, but I don't find it makes a noticeable difference below about 5000 pounds trailer weight. However, when I tow ~7000 as I often do now ( with my F150 which is rated for 9700 and weighs about 6000 ) it is very much worth both the small expense to buy it, and the add'l time to hook it up each trip. Good luck. -- David Hillman * _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 14 13:53:42 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4D742584E8C for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 13:53:42 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from st11p02mm-asmtp002.mac.com (st11p02mm-asmtp002.mac.com [17.172.220.237]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A097325848D0 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 13:48:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.0.53] (67-5-206-162.ptld.qwest.net [67.5.206.162]) by st11p02mm-asmtp002.mac.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7.0.5.35.0 64bit (built Dec 4 2014)) with ESMTPSA id <0NMT00IT6B9QF610@st11p02mm-asmtp002.mac.com> for shop-talk@autox.team.net; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 19:53:54 +0000 (GMT) From: Darrell Walker Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 12:53:49 -0700 To: shop-talk List engine=2.50.10432:5.13.68,1.0.33,0.0.0000 definitions=2015-04-14_06:2015-04-14,2015-04-14,1970-01-01 signatures=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1412110000 definitions=main-1504140165 Subject: [Shop-talk] Garden hose reel/caddy Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net (Shop talk content: I use this hose to wash my cars) Does anyone have a recommendation for a garden hose reel/caddy that might last more than a couple of years? They all start to leak around the connection that lets the reel turn while still supplying water. Ibve been by the big box stores, and they appear to be more cheaply made every year. It seems like the reel ought to last as long as the hose, this hose is going on 20 years, but it is the third reel. They are always drained before it freezes, so that isnbt it. Thanks, Darrell -- Darrell Walker 66 TR4A IRS-SC CTC67956L 81 TR8 SATPZ458XBA406206 Vancouver, WA, USA _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 14 14:23:51 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 210442584778 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 14:23:51 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from itonami.pair.com (itonami.pair.com [209.68.2.178]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 416E72580734 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 14:13:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by itonami.pair.com (Postfix, from userid 3198) id F081D8FC14; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 16:19:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by itonami.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEDC28FC0F for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 16:19:31 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 16:19:31 -0400 (EDT) From: David Hillman To: shop-talk List References: <7FF5E398-1B50-4056-8A2E-37165036D60C@mac.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.02 (BSF 1266 2009-07-14) Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Garden hose reel/caddy Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Tue, 14 Apr 2015, Darrell Walker wrote: > Does anyone have a recommendation for a garden hose reel/caddy that might last > more than a couple of years? They all start to leak around the connection > that lets the reel turn while still supplying water. Ibve been by the big > box stores, and they appear to be more cheaply made every year. It seems like > the reel ought to last as long as the hose, this hose is going on 20 years, > but it is the third reel. They are always drained before it freezes, so that > isnbt it. I was in that boat last year, or the year before. Eley was recommended to me. Admittedly, I have not had it long enough to judge, but the one I have is definitely built and finished to a higher standard than Home Depot units. -- David Hillman _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 14 14:39:35 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC8472584E6B for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 14:39:35 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from outbound-mail02.vgs.untd.com (outbound-mail02.vgs.untd.com [64.136.55.36]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id BF22D2580734 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 14:27:46 -0600 (MDT) s=alpha; t=1429043630; bh=47DEQpj8HBSa+/TImW+5JCeuQeRkm5NMpJWZG3hSuFU=; l=0; h=From:Date:To:Subject:Message-Id:Content-Type; b=MGvAWuSnXOr/VOMPWYDTw8j6mJHxk9cUoDJbwRD8zs6aNMlb1Q3icFVsMaLSoEzhI 1wMd9hIwcmxNKhknxseccuNyt0UJ8eqzRNlHatxc5ochkMFOV5a8AJHBmRKOPqYWCY iiybIj/C6WJDZP4cBBdsBFRubd2wmFZ39RsJQsew= Received: from outbound-bu1.vgs.untd.com (webmail08.vgs.untd.com [10.181.12.148]) by smtpout01.vgs.untd.com with SMTP id AABLU48M2AQ6756J for (sender ); Tue, 14 Apr 2015 13:32:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [75.76.179.156] by webmail08.vgs.untd.com with HTTP: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 20:31:47 GMT From: "Matt" Full-Name: "Matt" Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 20:31:47 GMT To: darrellw360@mac.com, shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Garden hose reel/caddy Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I have called Suncast 800 846 2345 on several occasions and they sent me a replacement part that solved the leaking... ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Darrell Walker To: shop-talk List They all start to leak around the connection that lets the reel turn while still supplying water. ____________________________________________________________ Old School Yearbook Pics View Class Yearbooks Online Free. Search by School & Year. Look Now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/552d7978955e17978354dst01vuc _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 14 15:38:07 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDCAB258496D for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 15:38:07 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.61]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C04532580152 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 15:30:05 -0600 (MDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=qtUtHqh9OewExzDyT8HueJYSxZOVigSUQSD0COwe+KHnKRzSpoPcnigjDJ3TfKdu; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [172.6.13.1] (helo=[192.168.1.3]) by elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Yi8Uy-00086i-DH; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 17:36:00 -0400 Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 14:35:11 -0700 From: Brian Kemp User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 To: Darrell Walker , shop-talk List References: <7FF5E398-1B50-4056-8A2E-37165036D60C@mac.com> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Garden hose reel/caddy Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I've gone through several of the cheap Suncast ones from the big box stores. I had leak on one, called Suncast and they sent the replacement part for free. I seem to get about 10 years out of each before the 4' connector hose springs a leak. At that point, they are sun faded and I think I got a fair value for $25. In my backyard I installed a wall mount NeverLeak by Ames Plastic 225-ft Wall-Mount Hose Reel and am happy with it. Quality seems a little better. The 225' capacity does great for a quality 100' hose. The hose guide also makes it much easier to reel up. http://www.lowes.com/pd_41909-302-2415500_0+1z0vipo__?productId=4363431 Brian On 4/14/2015 12:53 PM, Darrell Walker wrote: > (Shop talk content: I use this hose to wash my cars) > > Does anyone have a recommendation for a garden hose reel/caddy that might last > more than a couple of years? They all start to leak around the connection > that lets the reel turn while still supplying water. Ibve been by the big > box stores, and they appear to be more cheaply made every year. It seems like > the reel ought to last as long as the hose, this hose is going on 20 years, > but it is the third reel. They are always drained before it freezes, so that > isnbt it. > > Thanks, > Darrell > > -- > Darrell Walker > 66 TR4A IRS-SC CTC67956L > 81 TR8 SATPZ458XBA406206 > Vancouver, WA, USA > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 14 18:08:36 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 524862585E6A for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 18:08:36 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from dogbert2.mail.megageek.com (nj-69-34-94-16.sta.embarqhsd.net [69.34.94.16]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B76725849E6 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 17:56:31 -0600 (MDT) To: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net From: eric@megageek.com Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 19:43:14 -0400 7.0.1|January 17, 2006) at 04/14/2015 19:43:26, Serialize complete at 04/14/2015 19:43:26 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fw: Garden hose reel/caddy Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Darrell asks about hose reels... This is one of the Harbor Freight success stories. I bought two of these (well, they were branded slightly differently and only cost $69.99) https://www.google.com/search?q=retractable+garden+hose+reel&rlz=1C1CHWA_enUS619US619&source=univ&tbm=shop&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=jaktVZ_DL4GwggSIwoKADA&ved=0CB4Qsxg They have lasted over 10 years now of LOTS of use. But, they are mounting inside my shop, but they get used year round. I can't find them at Harbor Freight anymore, but it was pretty much this model at half the price when they had them. Sent from my Commodore 64 on a 2400 Baud Modem. Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 14 18:39:13 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9BB725853B5 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 18:39:12 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-pa0-f50.google.com (mail-pa0-f50.google.com [209.85.220.50]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67B6F258035F for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 18:32:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by paboj16 with SMTP id oj16so30430329pab.0 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 17:38:43 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=WL9521Yk5fVOS2lGnWv9hVwTMxePbcaCF6yaTe8m6m4=; b=y7M4BO2+QmhM7yZbGQ+m6lm+ZLIV44ISZY77tqb0ae7rRMhm1s7bGDC5818rteVWiJ u6Wehx3L/WrAWEfcBz/L0qjhqV3AO9PDlHhWwbMrNOXHDMT48aXsryEYyv+lbHAWA7MN R9Kdu3y9S2Wdx3UlSvj8Xkcly4B/ZvlWozwEMKSmVndR/NUTszk+ZmfNJoi5ZoNbCpUV UpRgRvXNcXPap9SU85ZU9j4pbRs2H+TmtMozukz91YKquhGshB+Q6cZa0MtsBayztUAO ztkesRXWB8ssUnnV5pQcEAFvw0dNJ5CaZ2LRMwIgMQCi4v0y7THujrI0Q3sfFO0Lv1X8 oYeg== xt6mr40601325pbc.20.1429058323327; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 17:38:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.50.202 with HTTP; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 17:38:43 -0700 (PDT) References: <7FF5E398-1B50-4056-8A2E-37165036D60C@mac.com> Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 20:38:43 -0400 From: Jeff Scarbrough To: Darrell Walker Cc: shop-talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Garden hose reel/caddy Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 3:53 PM, Darrell Walker wrote: > Does anyone have a recommendation for a garden hose reel/caddy that might > last > more than a couple of years? > This is the one I have: http://www.amazon.com/Liberty-Garden-Multi-Purpose-Mount/dp/B007W5H8TW/ref=zg_bs_3480704011_59 We've had it since October of 2012, and so far, so good. The paint looks kind of chalky - more so than you would expect a powder-coated item to be - but it functions perfectly well. Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 15 21:04:29 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70FA5258457F for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 21:04:29 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from filter04.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net (filter04.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net [199.224.80.234]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34A9225807E9 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 20:38:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by filter04.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A59B28F3C1 for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2015 02:44:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from relay02.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net ([199.224.80.245]) by localhost (filter04.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net [199.224.80.234]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id aU9OUzoQb7W7 for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2015 02:44:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unknown [50.34.108.246]) by relay02.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 8F4104A0A0 for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2015 02:44:09 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 19:44:20 -0700 From: Dave Cavanaugh User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 To: "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" References: <552ACBA2.9060301@frontier.com> <552C892E.3050608@frontier.com> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Axle ratio? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net All excellent points. As of now, I don't have a trailer, I am just exploring options. I may rent the largest flatbed that UHaul rents for a couple of one way trips, or I may just rent a large Ryder with a lift gate and be done with it. That, however, won't solve the problem of the tractor. Most of the heavy stuff consists of vintage cast iron woodworking power tools: 18" Powermatic planer, Delta 12/14" TS, Powermatic 10" TS, two shapers, wide belt sander, RAS, edge sander, drill presses, tenoner, mortiser, couple of medium size band saws. I will palletize everything that isn't on skids, and already have a pallet jack and will rent a forklift. I can determine the weight of each machine from the vendor literature, and will calculate the footprint to determine how much I can get on the truck or trailer. That will be at least two trailer loads, probably. Then all of the other shop stuff, workbenches, portable tools, supplies and so on are another trip. Then my hardwood supply, probably 1500 b/f of poplar, alder, maple and other odds and ends. That is a load in itself. Then there is the tractor. It's a New Holland TC30 with a loader and backhoe. They backhoe could be removed and moved separately as it adds quite a bit of length and a not insubstantial amount of weight to the load. And that is just the SHOP stuff. The tractor and accessories will require towing down with the trailer; I just don't see any way around it. At least I can take the bucket off the front and put a set of forks on it, for moving stuff on the other end. On 4/14/2015 11:38 AM, David Hillman wrote: > I think there's a whole bunch of relevant detail omitted here. What > kind of trailer? How old? Does it have brakes? What kind? How > heavy is it empty? How much weight are you planning to load into it? > Does your truck have a brake controller? If not, you're going to want > to install a Tekonsha Prodigy _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 16 07:06:09 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6FE0258496D for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2015 07:06:09 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ig0-f169.google.com (mail-ig0-f169.google.com [209.85.213.169]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0746725802F1 for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2015 06:45:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by igblo3 with SMTP id lo3so49637663igb.0 for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2015 05:51:25 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=8H9cIKosyBfb/Dweud3HfjsnHQnb9loF4QZoJQN+8fA=; b=H6Ng4am9TSaGCxFztC8LOaHZHs3jNqdY8KUTYcKCSvRkMOwmkMgx7fPkn8zX/gYdYO s7aGwY/0o48vsLj0HGClJUbGhjVrhdL5gVxpDXCsEfSkMVY4ZD7gg9hsGj2YQpM8WaAs 6+JN74eyGWgXk0JFUbSRKGOQ7nDk82tz24qfvDff98lNrr+peFzQgzxHDLGUcP7G7Me6 L9ngfIcQTarlC3t+N2XEgvfBL+qLXI8y08UBeY1MRrq+I8JBoVBGluY3m568K4tS4Tli 5powu6L6ypot3Ax0501Vr0TkH33osoRMPCpW0IkaowaASTKeqzTJNC188t/bdhD0xA6o Klmw== q4mr36372701icq.62.1429188685732; Thu, 16 Apr 2015 05:51:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.54.149 with HTTP; Thu, 16 Apr 2015 05:51:25 -0700 (PDT) References: <552ACBA2.9060301@frontier.com> <552C892E.3050608@frontier.com> <552F2204.2060701@frontier.com> Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 08:51:25 -0400 From: Paul Parkanzky To: Dave Cavanaugh Cc: "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Axle ratio? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net That tractor isn't too bad. According to TractorData.com your TC30 weighs 2200# for the bare tractor. Figure another ~1000# for the loader and a bit less for the backhoe. I suspect that you're right around 4000# for the setup unless you've loaded the tires or added some other ballast you haven't mentioned. For the move you're talking about, I'd get the Penske truck with the lift-gate and move all the equipment on pallets like you've described. It will be well worth your money to have easy loading and unloading and one-and-done on the trip. Having everything covered is a huge bonus. Just about any car trailer would haul your tractor, although I'd try to find something a bit heavier-duty (i.e. 10k# GVWR instead of 7k#). I just ordered a trailer in part to haul my tractor (A JD 2032R, so the same class as yours but a touch lighter) and ended up going with a 14k# low-profile tilt-deck because the cost (both empty weight and $$$) to step up to 14k# was minimal. If you happen to be making this move from anywhere near Grand Rapids, MI you can use that to haul your tractor and all the implements. Good luck with the move! We just moved 25 miles and it wasn't easy. I can only imagine the stress of pulling up stakes to head across the country! Regards, -Paul On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 10:44 PM, Dave Cavanaugh wrote: > All excellent points. As of now, I don't have a trailer, I am just > exploring options. I may rent the largest flatbed that UHaul rents for a > couple of one way trips, or I may just rent a large Ryder with a lift gate > and be done with it. That, however, won't solve the problem of the tractor. > > Most of the heavy stuff consists of vintage cast iron woodworking power > tools: 18" Powermatic planer, Delta 12/14" TS, Powermatic 10" TS, two > shapers, wide belt sander, RAS, edge sander, drill presses, tenoner, > mortiser, couple of medium size band saws. I will palletize everything > that isn't on skids, and already have a pallet jack and will rent a > forklift. I can determine the weight of each machine from the vendor > literature, and will calculate the footprint to determine how much I can > get on the truck or trailer. That will be at least two trailer loads, > probably. Then all of the other shop stuff, workbenches, portable tools, > supplies and so on are another trip. Then my hardwood supply, probably > 1500 b/f of poplar, alder, maple and other odds and ends. That is a load > in itself. Then there is the tractor. It's a New Holland TC30 with a > loader and backhoe. They backhoe could be removed and moved separately as > it adds quite a bit of length and a not insubstantial amount of weight to > the load. And that is just the SHOP stuff. The tractor and accessories > will require towing down with the trailer; I just don't see any way around > it. At least I can take the bucket off the front and put a set of forks on > it, for moving stuff on the other end. > > On 4/14/2015 11:38 AM, David Hillman wrote: > >> I think there's a whole bunch of relevant detail omitted here. What kind >> of trailer? How old? Does it have brakes? What kind? How heavy is it >> empty? How much weight are you planning to load into it? Does your truck >> have a brake controller? If not, you're going to want to install a >> Tekonsha Prodigy >> > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/ > options/shop-talk/parkanzky@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 16 11:21:44 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB92625844E7 for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2015 11:21:43 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-po-08v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-po-08v.sys.comcast.net [96.114.154.167]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D01B258088B for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2015 10:59:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-po-02v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.226]) by resqmta-po-08v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id Gh4v1q0014tLnxL01h5oQh; Thu, 16 Apr 2015 17:05:48 +0000 Received: from [10.0.0.3] ([98.247.129.48]) by resomta-po-02v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id Gh5n1q00P12niAi01h5oua; Thu, 16 Apr 2015 17:05:48 +0000 Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 10:05:45 -0700 From: Mike User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 To: Shop Talk References: <552ACBA2.9060301@frontier.com> <552C892E.3050608@frontier.com> <552F2204.2060701@frontier.com> s=q20140121; t=1429203948; bh=9tGUkKiLUWxItjjVhSMy4W2jLRW+zecQrhjueTHriZ4=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:Subject: Content-Type; b=mlzjBuBhNI6w81F3PGCVR7DFObqOkj9eDmO5ksBK06MUnKahBhHtFp/71dQ8sYZaz XlPFeYk/ybd2cNLywLqNyRIhPjTtHqOnqJMiSLd4HbnRSKVUxVDFSOQvq6k8G0LhaA kTBbkMd5AXCp3uaj4buStIAIbOEK+/dZZiVgo/9Ixz/So8eJ48RDImWj/lKBp20JkG RVPyo/WVHk391vcv6sFt696zVYuS1NXbcX9xpPqNtpLoYUlvYiORqRl+hmv2pIXr3b KE3+prI3Ize8thewSdm1beAysf6KtzCJkd6rdGx9fyTCyL8U4vTZmuY4UqjlmFyoKZ zqILL9HKapjtQ== Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Axle ratio? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I have moved several times, from local to cross-country. In some ways, the long distance is easier, because with short distances, you end up making many, many trips. On a long distance move, you are forced to do it more efficiently. Also, there is more incentive to weed out things you don't really need (none of the shop stuff, of course!). We actually left all our living room furniture for the kids to use in their apartments, and were 'forced' to buy new when we got to the new house. Mike On 4/16/2015 5:51 AM, Paul Parkanzky wrote: > > Good luck with the move! We just moved 25 miles and it wasn't easy. I can > only imagine the stress of pulling up stakes to head across the country! > > Regards, > > -Paul _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 16 11:36:39 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3276258508A for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2015 11:36:39 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (tkt-001-i374.relay.mailchannels.net [174.136.5.177]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD9422584509 for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2015 11:21:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ibis.arvixe.com (ip-10-229-11-165.us-west-2.compute.internal [10.229.11.165]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 6BC7112009D for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2015 17:27:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ibis.arvixe.com ([UNAVAILABLE]. [10.83.15.107]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.4.8); Thu, 16 Apr 2015 17:27:52 +0000 Received: from c-98-253-220-190.hsd1.il.comcast.net ([98.253.220.190]:63833 helo=[192.168.1.129]) by ibis.arvixe.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1YinZq-0001ik-C2 for shop-talk@autox.team.net; Thu, 16 Apr 2015 10:27:46 -0700 Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 12:27:45 -0500 From: Matt Wehland User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <552ACBA2.9060301@frontier.com> <552C892E.3050608@frontier.com> <552F2204.2060701@frontier.com> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Axle ratio? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I would second the box truck with lift gate. Compare fuel costs for your truck (along with wear and tear) vs rental and mileage, plus the value of your time, especially during a stressful move. I have done moves both ways, and the box truck sure makes it easier, even when it has cost more. The only time that moving by personal vehicle worked out better was when I was making multiple trips to work on the property already and did not have room for stuff yet. Also my favorite box truck trick if you have room, make it a walk in closet, run a bar or two across the truck to hang all your clothes on. Just hang them up, drive and then walk them into your new closets. Matt On 4/16/2015 7:51 AM, Paul Parkanzky wrote: > That tractor isn't too bad. According to TractorData.com your TC30 weighs > 2200# for the bare tractor. Figure another ~1000# for the loader and a bit > less for the backhoe. I suspect that you're right around 4000# for the > setup unless you've loaded the tires or added some other ballast you > haven't mentioned. > > For the move you're talking about, I'd get the Penske truck with the > lift-gate and move all the equipment on pallets like you've described. It > will be well worth your money to have easy loading and unloading and > one-and-done on the trip. Having everything covered is a huge bonus. > > Just about any car trailer would haul your tractor, although I'd try to > find something a bit heavier-duty (i.e. 10k# GVWR instead of 7k#). I just > ordered a trailer in part to haul my tractor (A JD 2032R, so the same class > as yours but a touch lighter) and ended up going with a 14k# low-profile > tilt-deck because the cost (both empty weight and $$$) to step up to 14k# > was minimal. If you happen to be making this move from anywhere near Grand > Rapids, MI you can use that to haul your tractor and all the implements. > > Good luck with the move! We just moved 25 miles and it wasn't easy. I can > only imagine the stress of pulling up stakes to head across the country! > > Regards, > > -Paul > -- Matt Wehland _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 16 12:41:33 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84D642587646 for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2015 12:41:33 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from outbound-mail02.vgs.untd.com (outbound-mail02.vgs.untd.com [64.136.55.36]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id EFB932587588 for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2015 12:23:30 -0600 (MDT) s=alpha; t=1429208976; bh=47DEQpj8HBSa+/TImW+5JCeuQeRkm5NMpJWZG3hSuFU=; l=0; h=From:Date:To:Subject:Message-Id:Content-Type; b=di5NncGc9xmpYq7HKQbPu40xh1fb36G9dh3tCR2ZyiYlC4QmcRBlYx1O/jIUEXaOL B5nk3aDbRdw4p0aRqxriUTIbCLrBTwGU6rhOtiC4SF7fvpXDUrzq7QOFX8xcOFzO15 eAgQFR9XUDiSWbanLpBl3zmB85EQBhwhF/8abd2Y= Received: from outbound-bu1.vgs.untd.com (webmail05.vgs.untd.com [10.181.12.145]) by smtpout02.vgs.untd.com with SMTP id AABLU995FACALY7A for (sender ); Thu, 16 Apr 2015 11:28:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [75.76.179.156] by webmail05.vgs.untd.com with HTTP: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 18:27:20 GMT From: "Matt" Full-Name: "Matt" Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 18:27:20 GMT To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] Composite Decking Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I query the group for any composite decking expertise/advice. Background: My wife wants me to build a deck off the back of the pool near the SHOP. She is seeking a good location for afternoon sun as her normal spot gets shaded. I figure I will use some manner of composite decking, seeking a durable, long lasting surface with minimal upkeep. I think I am good to go on the general deck construction, but I am finding that there are many options for the decking. Years ago a good friend made an expensive mistake when he bought something maybe then 30% less costly than the top of the line option and within 3-4 years he said it just fell apart. It swelled, it sagged, it was terrible. He tore it all out and started over with top of the line trex and while costly, it has held up well. I have done some reading on WPC (wood plastic composites) in general and it sounds like they are now claiming "second generation" status, building on some of the lessons learned. Apparently Trex has spent a lot of $$ replacing decks and no longer advertises their product as "maintenance free". They found mildew staining to be a recurring problem. One of the solutions is a "capped" product that uses a WPC core but a more plastic covering to reduce some of the staining/variability of the wood fibers. I have an existing deck on the back of the house that needs attention. I was thinking I would just re-deck with whatever I use on the new construction. But it occurred to me that the existing deck is still solid, but no longer aesthetically pleasing. Would simply overlaying the existing deck with new WPC decking be a viable option? Finally, there seems to be a wide variety of fastener systems. From the material paired hidden systems to options like Cortex that still goes down through the material but hides behind plugs and uses cutter/driver bits. So specifically I am looking for 1) recommendations on material. 2) thoughts on overdecking 3) recommendations on fastener systems. Thanks for your thoughts, Matt Barre Columbus GA - dampness/mildew is as much of a threat as UV here. ____________________________________________________________ Forget the iPhone 6 1 little-known Apple supplier holds wealth-changing growth potential. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/552fff651c5137f653cb7st02vuc _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 16 16:09:29 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 469E02584E08 for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2015 16:09:29 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from p3plsmtpa09-05.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (p3plsmtpa09-05.prod.phx3.secureserver.net [173.201.193.234]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDF56258455B for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2015 15:51:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PatsOffice ([184.105.18.14]) by p3plsmtpa09-05.prod.phx3.secureserver.net with id Glxd1q00h0JCzvc01lxeFS; Thu, 16 Apr 2015 14:57:39 -0700 From: "Pat Horne" To: "'Matt'" , References: <20150416.142720.29336.4@webmail05.vgs.untd.com> Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 16:57:30 -0500 Thread-Index: AdB4dd22Yka+aXCAQZ+tw5mWXzeD7QAGdDMw Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Composite Decking Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net One thing about most if not all composite decking is that it needs more support. Check the installation instructions for the products you are considering. With wood decks you can usually go 2' on center with the framing. Offhand I can't remember what brand decking we put in, but it said 16" max. In the high load area where we entertain, we went with 12" on center. When I remember what we used I'll repost. The fasteners we used were stainless steel square drive screws. They mushroomed up a little around the screws, but that didn't bother us. We've had the deck for almost 3 years and it is doing fine. Peace, Pat -----Original Message----- From: Shop-talk [mailto:shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2015 1:27 PM To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] Composite Decking I query the group for any composite decking expertise/advice. Background: My wife wants me to build a deck off the back of the pool near the SHOP. She is seeking a good location for afternoon sun as her normal spot gets shaded. I figure I will use some manner of composite decking, seeking a durable, long lasting surface with minimal upkeep. I think I am good to go on the general deck construction, but I am finding that there are many options for the decking. Years ago a good friend made an expensive mistake when he bought something maybe then 30% less costly than the top of the line option and within 3-4 years he said it just fell apart. It swelled, it sagged, it was terrible. He tore it all out and started over with top of the line trex and while costly, it has held up well. So specifically I am looking for 1) recommendations on material. 2) thoughts on overdecking 3) recommendations on fastener systems. Thanks for your thoughts, Matt Barre Columbus GA - dampness/mildew is as much of a threat as UV here. ____________________________________________________________ Forget the iPhone 6 1 little-known Apple supplier holds wealth-changing growth potential. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/552fff651c5137f653cb7st02vuc _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat@hornesystemstx.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 16 18:10:48 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D96825853FC for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2015 18:10:48 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.62]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48CBC25846AE for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2015 17:48:00 -0600 (MDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=UJ/YvK5uvRY2SWihpLvwFYzD/tN7koBWpTXeG6x5zguD3l1trCodbL18a1KkRCwv; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [172.10.156.191] (helo=[192.168.1.3]) by elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1YitbY-0007Cc-5t; Thu, 16 Apr 2015 19:53:56 -0400 Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 16:53:10 -0700 From: Brian Kemp User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 To: Dave Cavanaugh , "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" References: <552ACBA2.9060301@frontier.com> <552C892E.3050608@frontier.com> <552F2204.2060701@frontier.com> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Axle ratio? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net David - On the tractor, you might want to see about finding someone to haul that for you. It's been a long time for me so don't have details anymore, but I needed some 3 pallets from PA to CA and had no urgency. We worked with a shipping place that held the load for a convenient truck with room and got a big discount. I'd expect there are places to list a load online and look for a bargain from someone with an empty trailer returning home. For the tools, I second the idea of renting an enclosed truck. Think about trying to keep all the tools dry if you hit some rain or security if you park overnight. The truck may also have the ability to pull a trailer for the tractor, but be sure to talk about the loads with a smart person at the rental place. Brian On 4/15/2015 7:44 PM, Dave Cavanaugh wrote: > All excellent points. As of now, I don't have a trailer, I am just > exploring options. I may rent the largest flatbed that UHaul rents > for a couple of one way trips, or I may just rent a large Ryder with a > lift gate and be done with it. That, however, won't solve the problem > of the tractor. > > Most of the heavy stuff consists of vintage cast iron woodworking > power tools: 18" Powermatic planer, Delta 12/14" TS, Powermatic 10" > TS, two shapers, wide belt sander, RAS, edge sander, drill presses, > tenoner, mortiser, couple of medium size band saws. I will palletize > everything that isn't on skids, and already have a pallet jack and > will rent a forklift. I can determine the weight of each machine from > the vendor literature, and will calculate the footprint to determine > how much I can get on the truck or trailer. That will be at least two > trailer loads, probably. Then all of the other shop stuff, > workbenches, portable tools, supplies and so on are another trip. > Then my hardwood supply, probably 1500 b/f of poplar, alder, maple and > other odds and ends. That is a load in itself. Then there is the > tractor. It's a New Holland TC30 with a loader and backhoe. They > backhoe could be removed and moved separately as it adds quite a bit > of length and a not insubstantial amount of weight to the load. And > that is just the SHOP stuff. The tractor and accessories will require > towing down with the trailer; I just don't see any way around it. At > least I can take the bucket off the front and put a set of forks on > it, for moving stuff on the other end. > > On 4/14/2015 11:38 AM, David Hillman wrote: >> I think there's a whole bunch of relevant detail omitted here. What >> kind of trailer? How old? Does it have brakes? What kind? How >> heavy is it empty? How much weight are you planning to load into >> it? Does your truck have a brake controller? If not, you're going >> to want to install a Tekonsha Prodigy > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 16 21:23:49 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40CAB25846AE for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2015 21:23:49 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from filter01.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net (filter01.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net [199.224.80.228]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48F912580962 for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2015 20:59:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by filter01.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31F0F272F5F for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 03:05:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from relay03.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net ([199.224.80.246]) by localhost (filter01.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net [199.224.80.228]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id J82px6+NjCFh for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 03:05:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unknown [50.34.108.246]) by relay03.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id D733A9409C for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 03:05:15 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 20:05:29 -0700 From: Dave Cavanaugh User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <20150416.142720.29336.4@webmail05.vgs.untd.com> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Composite Decking Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I live in the Pacific Northwest. At our first house my BIL and I built a conventional PT/cedar deck. I had to pressure wash it every year and stain it at least every couple of years, and it still needed major repairs after 15 years. About 15 years ago we build our present house. We had a contractor install a TimberTech deck and it has been flawless. I pressure wash it every couple of years and that's it. Points to consider: Yes, you will need to put your joists 12" OC. The stuff needs much more support than conventional lumber. Our deck is screwed together with SS deck screws. Pre drilling is mandatory. The stuff is slick. There is a learning curve with regards to crosscuting it with a chop saw. It wants to move around. There was a lot of cursing on the contractor's part during assembly of the fiddly bits. Sorry; I don't have any ideas regarding over decking. On 4/16/2015 11:27 AM, Matt wrote: > specifically I am looking for > 1) recommendations on material. > > 2) thoughts on overdecking > > 3) recommendations on fastener systems. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 16 22:24:48 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D8952580107 for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2015 22:24:48 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-pd0-f174.google.com (mail-pd0-f174.google.com [209.85.192.174]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 699582580107 for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2015 22:07:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by pdea3 with SMTP id a3so114933793pde.3 for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2015 21:13:55 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=fMXXtEeOqWdM5HZT5CtfGcD4ZsVEKepfuqJx6Q0EkI4=; b=zTPxRujWnet0ZEplHcAQjbvmoWONdv53Z8Q6x9dmpWvHKQD2OuRwv3x7ZPT1t3SqzE wH3VXF4T+H1v0OKRnw1eBIlb6SPeki6EYjDUwlA3rOlzp738zwjKXF3WdWQv9ppp9wV2 WgawG/n6TJZZ8zraexW0iLXPRWchNpme0pBq4qHDYBXvbId+eHjACXZZkgaUtBWsQ+sQ tH5azdu3U/rmrzPQp+GyRen/WhPlkGfnkNzEoq8bZYJdc65jGQ3WgEDiFna8Y8TEUMx5 jaDjazpQWTXkRmoeGh/DaDfiLAtSjpivwj8ZrJ3zLpjcIn35nAnWdz6y4qcBYpC/aWql AJmQ== s13mr1924969pdn.120.1429244035689; Thu, 16 Apr 2015 21:13:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.75.104 with HTTP; Thu, 16 Apr 2015 21:13:55 -0700 (PDT) References: <20150416.142720.29336.4@webmail05.vgs.untd.com> Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 23:13:55 -0500 From: David Scheidt To: Matt Cc: shop-talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Composite Decking Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 1:27 PM, Matt wrote: rs. > > I have an existing deck on the back of the house that needs attention. I was > thinking I would just re-deck with whatever I use on the new construction. > But it occurred to me that the existing deck is still solid, but no longer > aesthetically pleasing. Would simply overlaying the existing deck with new > WPC decking be a viable option? Do you mean literally putting new deck boards on the existing boards, as is done with asphalt shingles? Or do you mean rip the decking off, and replace it, using the existing structure? The first is a bad idea. The second is potentially okay; it depends on the structure being in good shape (it often is), and being suitable for the new material (as others have noted, the composite stuff isn't as strong, and requires more support), and there not having been some change in the local code that requires change or replacement. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 17 06:39:49 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 254B02584759 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 06:39:49 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ie0-f179.google.com (mail-ie0-f179.google.com [209.85.223.179]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 546B22584E10 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 06:17:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by iejt8 with SMTP id t8so70751954iej.2 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 05:24:06 -0700 (PDT) s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=vC3n5bpN1SWFkaPFf7dBm+sMSN68wVKO1JtKmMco5v0=; b=N1X1gBn+r7wDp6QaGEa1qbpoXpG+azmgxkvA5UI/bd06ljaDaKiEz82TdpAMPK7gaE Tkq9eOwor7xxHuU8rxPUe3nMJvd2QVwhZwra/7LrPCNwdHsphWBwW8ji02g1w46Okklb kr2wAm9sd5mZfRXPljmfekVn3r0/nnjV1IYGg= d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=vC3n5bpN1SWFkaPFf7dBm+sMSN68wVKO1JtKmMco5v0=; b=HjUul8d2E/n3hP1O95Ack1DOCv9m5/e6wWGNd/k050SokymbwYNPPJqUBsbyz8cB8C vLnXK9musbeagjR4B9G9kgkE3ZcD9ozNlVr3cPC2PVV23nY9N9yuRmCzY0dRfS01H+Ks 0v2Xf+ijGJgZyq9R6+nZ53sQW1nqrsMmQKw13u9oBCNohkM/oUqGMwLuEnEZlJIrKVc4 mHdb0bVOmLKIlCrE3n//nqctJMHFfAvhI7rXTEbpgZpW1K3vZrdl3LMW5AZA25Ti0eBb sASb1r3nkSPszk1vRu3KPVd5ENCLO7pJzWMfxP7ovwavzNSwzLBdff17Peog7V1VUlme +XlA== 70mr3429929iok.0.1429273445910; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 05:24:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.107.132.2 with HTTP; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 05:24:05 -0700 (PDT) References: <20150416.142720.29336.4@webmail05.vgs.untd.com> Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 08:24:05 -0400 From: Ian McFetridge To: Matt Cc: Shop Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Composite Decking Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Matt, I would be very careful in selecting the brand of composite decking. When we built a deck in 2004, the contractor swore that he had great results from Geodeck...they are now out of business and you can read some of the horror stories on ConsumerReports . Some issues we had, and to be on the lookout with any vendor, include: -- composites have much different thermal and water expansion properties. Our deck was in the sun and the 16' boards would lengthen about a 1/32" every foot in the heat of summer -- yes, that is about 1/2" on a 16' board! Our fascia was nailed up to the ends of the boards with an 1/8" gap and quickly became warped and had to be replaced. -- the fasteners were hidden, went through the tongue, and were covered by the next board. With the expansion of the boards, they simply could not hold them in place and large gaps opened up in the boards. We had to face-screw them. -- the boards had channels that held water and had the usual problems where water is held, mildew, freeze/thaw, etc. - Ian _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 17 06:56:41 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D84E125855B6 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 06:56:41 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from outbound-mail02.vgs.untd.com (outbound-mail02.vgs.untd.com [64.136.55.36]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 7FAD625809CA for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 06:37:20 -0600 (MDT) s=alpha; t=1429274606; bh=47DEQpj8HBSa+/TImW+5JCeuQeRkm5NMpJWZG3hSuFU=; l=0; h=From:Date:To:Cc:Subject:Message-Id:Content-Type; b=fPVUkrQjbVdKSm57LkXPX/lc05K3KgVlH8jxwdzsra1ekimzkhTsp/codv21RTdTo WiSwyJayie0efSMMOaMKQfW5ONvv57R5IPhSUwex2NTCaXtMKJua/lhk8NBkc03pDT mgFra7p1SJjjHttDH2N83v3YBZIDnoLAmuy2WplQ= Received: from outbound-bu1.vgs.untd.com (webmail05.vgs.untd.com [10.181.12.145]) by smtpout04.vgs.untd.com with SMTP id AABLVB98QA34SPVS for (sender ); Fri, 17 Apr 2015 05:42:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [75.76.179.156] by webmail05.vgs.untd.com with HTTP: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 12:41:07 GMT From: "Matt" Full-Name: "Matt" Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 12:41:07 GMT To: dmscheidt@gmail.com Cc: shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Composite Decking Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thanks everyone for the feedback. Good info. Dave, Asphalt shingles is exactly what I was thinking about. I consider that application ill advised due to heat, weight, and the additional mess when it actually gets done right. But what makes it a bad idea for a deck? I was thinking about orienting the boards 90 degrees to the existing. Support definitely wouldn't be an issue. Matt ---------- Original Message ---------- From: David Scheidt Do you mean literally putting new deck boards on the existing boards, as is done with asphalt shingles? The first is a bad idea. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt@gmail.com ____________________________________________________________ Old School Yearbook Pics View Class Yearbooks Online Free. Search by School & Year. Look Now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5530ffcfd3f37fce7b6cst04vuc _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 17 07:40:27 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7A302585709 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 07:40:27 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ig0-f174.google.com (mail-ig0-f174.google.com [209.85.213.174]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23C072580449 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 07:18:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by igblo3 with SMTP id lo3so11699804igb.0 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 06:24:37 -0700 (PDT) h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=tB0evlFF8LlLnnaxvbvosHrjb6SQT/iJc2VktOHkuYI=; b=IIsJH5r8L4F66W5WjBC65PSYpN5ng0NjWMed0J68RXcNX/1x1WPirEZeAy+IkesLxY vU2hHX0PJPXKXPkKHJNKi+57d+q4c6/IllcuM8tPbO5jBCvzqX/eHuvoXxj7uLVT21Zn O8ZfxWPXoLkLdsJy9a4SD/sLjOvK1ufZsuErMwxyqI2S14DyIX0J54VR8B/56o28el9h YNXL2Nr9/t5jAEx930IGFxxDg4r74IUk5p5ExqthkOZPpESwjaIh/JJ/CCz3F3a7sG2w k68q7YVGFbb6NYdWWxJHEWmjWP2DtXZ9ffzMUUvvpHjAcpWBeswz8C2421oBabnSFYpS r2wQ== Fri, 17 Apr 2015 06:24:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.194.65.10] ([166.175.60.235]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id o2sm1182584igr.9.2015.04.17.06.24.36 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 17 Apr 2015 06:24:36 -0700 (PDT) From: David Scheidt Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 08:24:35 -0500 References: <20150417.084107.28245.0@webmail05.vgs.untd.com> To: Matt Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Composite Decking Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > On Apr 17, 2015, at 07:41, Matt wrote: > > Thanks everyone for the feedback. Good info. > > > Dave, > Asphalt shingles is exactly what I was thinking about. > > I consider that application ill advised due to heat, weight, and the additional mess when it actually gets done right. > But what makes it a bad idea for a deck? > I was thinking about orienting the boards 90 degrees to the existing. Support definitely wouldn't be an Two to start with. First, the deck was not likely designed with more than double the dead load of the planking in mind. Wind load will do a number on it. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 17 08:41:21 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06A3A258559F for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 08:41:21 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qg0-f42.google.com (mail-qg0-f42.google.com [209.85.192.42]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B2012580873 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 08:21:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by qgfi89 with SMTP id i89so22120900qgf.1 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 07:27:10 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:content-type; bh=ItjWq4rJ4Ocg20aRcagEk+685jBbW+ktewzbHH6TGQI=; b=xwF7fRqoTUpb2JnpMhZFG9cmoAKjqQF9Md0XMkd5csrlMjxRK2zIVZrZ7T5dZ0lMXU NbyrsRnrsG0zu373bHyNU6gRIp15pmWCdpNUPZ9W/rJphJMreLjuvIPbTFD+PDyVBUL2 6BGlk7Ar89E1tpADyoIgN5v4pEPDlT3pnZYpTbdXBQP3ho3EmLPtUhLHjxIorDq7Q82Z uu8wokk6SP2ofO6Dl64forzq7Nk2am0IcRc++bsse7WTgWmZ5xIQjsYcgALE+g8IqXsQ W2XAZnRHt4Zz8V28A6Ym1hkf2YbDTYsJ30hg48z7Cv5fRH7GgNS1vE4w5mjsWxuiq/tO b+OQ== q10mr3582039qgd.67.1429280830161; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 07:27:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.140.107.101 with HTTP; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 07:27:10 -0700 (PDT) References: <20150416.142720.29336.4@webmail05.vgs.untd.com> Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 09:27:10 -0500 From: RandE To: ShopTalk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Composite Decking Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net We had some landscaping done last year and one of the guys also did deck work. He told me he had installed a composite deck for a customer. It was a huge deck and cost about $25k. The decking retained much more heat than wood and it was so hot they couldn't use it. The customer replaced it few years later with wood. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 17 10:56:32 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 307EC258457E for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 10:56:32 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from outbound-mail02.vgs.untd.com (outbound-mail02.vgs.untd.com [64.136.55.36]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B9E292584529 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 10:34:07 -0600 (MDT) s=alpha; t=1429288813; bh=47DEQpj8HBSa+/TImW+5JCeuQeRkm5NMpJWZG3hSuFU=; l=0; h=From:Date:To:Cc:Subject:Message-Id:Content-Type; b=qxiBz6/e4ToqDR2sWVpYIz94yxeINcYecZVLybYsuJliaNKnvr7y3rlbbZAnhBksX PbXoV67vEmSqMLHv7+qVh1WS6dLPRtqc9F+aEt18DxXp6bOBcVHrJxwGPrlsPamJWf JjoyKy19U6Br4ab3ODde/GvfKPpN+m/JONgQ1a5A= Received: from outbound-bu1.vgs.untd.com (webmail05.vgs.untd.com [10.181.12.145]) by smtpout04.vgs.untd.com with SMTP id AABLVCP4WAXAV6W2 for (sender ); Fri, 17 Apr 2015 09:39:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [75.76.179.156] by webmail05.vgs.untd.com with HTTP: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 16:38:17 GMT From: "Matt" Full-Name: "Matt" Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 16:38:17 GMT To: dmscheidt@gmail.com Cc: shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Composite Decking Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I AM TAKING CARE OF MY PROCRASTINATION ISSUES Just you wait & see! Professional Fl�neur AGE RES PROPRIAS TUAS MOLON LABE Certainly 2 good, logical reasons. On For my application, I don't think the weight will be a major factor as it is overbuilt and only 1-2 feet above grade, but moisture is a concern. There isn't much airflow around it now so it would be even less with a layer op plastic on top. ---------- Original Message ---------- From: David Scheidt To: Matt Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Composite Decking Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 08:24:35 -0500 > On Apr 17, 2015, at 07:41, Matt wrote: > > Thanks everyone for the feedback. Good info. > > > Dave, > Asphalt shingles is exactly what I was thinking about. > > I consider that application ill advised due to heat, weight, and the additional mess when it actually gets done right. > But what makes it a bad idea for a deck? > I was thinking about orienting the boards 90 degrees to the existing. Support definitely wouldn't be an Two to start with. First, the deck was not likely designed with more than double the dead load of the planking in mind. Wind load will do a number on it. Second, you'll trap water between the layers, and encourage rot. ____________________________________________________________ Forget the iPhone 6 1 little-known Apple supplier holds wealth-changing growth potential. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/55313754c2b9537542911st04vuc _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 17 11:56:31 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 333D325859F9 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 11:56:31 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from dogbert2.mail.megageek.com (nj-69-34-94-16.sta.embarqhsd.net [69.34.94.16]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D97ED2584DB6 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 11:31:47 -0600 (MDT) To: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net From: eric@megageek.com Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 13:18:37 -0400 7.0.1|January 17, 2006) at 04/17/2015 13:18:39, Serialize complete at 04/17/2015 13:18:39 Subject: [Shop-talk] Weird Rotor Issue Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Hello, The SO's car is a Toyota MR2 Spider (05). She doesn't drive it alot and it sat all winter in WV under a carport roof. Now, the brakes are making some noise and the car isn't stopping properly (it takes longer to stop and there is speed related intermittent noise.) Here is the weird part, I know that rotors can get rusty without use, and that is most likely what happened here. The problem is that even after lots of driving, the edges of the rotors are still pitted and it looks like only the insides of the pads are stopping the car. So, I was planning on flushing the brake fluid and driving it some more to see if that take care of the problem. OR do I need to put new rotors on this car? The pads still have plenty of meat on them. SO is returning to WV on Weds, so I need to do this quick. What's the wisdom here think is the safest option? (Toyota rotors are ridiculously over priced and don't want to replace all four if I don't need to.) Here are two photos of the rotors... >http://tinyurl.com/weirdrotor< Thanks! Sent from my Commodore 64 on a 2400 Baud Modem. Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 17 12:46:12 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B25C825847DC for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 12:46:12 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from homiemail-a56.g.dreamhost.com (sub5.mail.dreamhost.com [208.113.200.129]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B5AD258074C for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 12:23:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from homiemail-a56.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a56.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ED7AFE064 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 11:30:03 -0700 (PDT) :content-type:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:references:to :in-reply-to; s=groupwbench.org; bh=1tTw/yrxMhx7hAywreSVDlTr+Bc= ; b=N5wpT++R7YwxDcMuiyHJIXUyNCwtEaZ9k8ddifg6erERe9YBPAJuD1fKhWp7 UM20M+KoPFmYFMtHy2+SXdFo66KdtNWfTRVGivDuP0f30fbUupr99B3wZjiOnJ0f FJi/DwAS8mHf8nAnxW5ErsJB82nKbhOl39NpxQAkpKSk+pw= Received: from jims-imac.home (pool-98-118-108-149.bstnma.fios.verizon.net [98.118.108.149]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jamesf@groupwbench.org) by homiemail-a56.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 209B6FE05B for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 11:30:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Franklin Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 14:30:01 -0400 References: To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Weird Rotor Issue Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Apr 17, 2015, at 1:18 PM, eric@megageek.com wrote: > The problem is that even after > lots of driving, the edges of the rotors are still pitted and it looks > like only the insides of the pads are stopping the car. You may be SOL given the time constraint, but you may have answered yourself- if the outer pads aren't working, not only will you have less braking power, but they won't be wiping the rotors clean. Sound like the pistons froze up, or the caliper isn't floating on its pins. Have the calipers ever been replaced/rebuilt? If not I'd bite the bullet replace everything. Esp in the mountains of WV. jim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 17 12:46:38 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 801AB258661C for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 12:46:38 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from itonami.pair.com (itonami.pair.com [209.68.2.178]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B956E258074C for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 12:25:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by itonami.pair.com (Postfix, from userid 3198) id 4FE628FF1A; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 14:31:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by itonami.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F58C8FC0F for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 14:31:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 14:31:12 -0400 (EDT) From: David Hillman To: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.02 (BSF 1266 2009-07-14) Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Weird Rotor Issue Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Fri, 17 Apr 2015, eric@megageek.com wrote: > So, I was planning on flushing the brake fluid and driving it some more to > see if that take care of the problem. OR do I need to put new rotors on > this car? The pads still have plenty of meat on them. All my experience is with the first two generations of MR2, of which I've had 12, but I don't expect the Spyder is all that different. I doubt seriously there's anything wrong with your rotors. I doubt changing the fluid -- while not a bad idea in general -- will fix anything. Before spending any money, I would pull the pads from each caliper, and reinstall... making sure that the spring-clips are in place ( 2 per caliper ) and that the pads can move enough and didn't rust into place over the winter, and that there's plenty of grease on the sliding pin in each caliper. If you have an assistant, while you have the wheel off each corner, I would have them apply the brakes and make sure the piston(s) move. It sounds to me like you have a mechanical ( as opposed to hydraulic ) issue preventing the pads from properly gripping the rotors. > SO is returning to WV on Weds, so I need to do this quick. What's the > wisdom here think is the safest option? (Toyota rotors are ridiculously > over priced and don't want to replace all four if I don't need to.) I never found MR2 rotors expensive at all. Partsgeek.com has Spyder rotors for $15.44/ea. -- David Hillman _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 17 13:27:11 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 568B2258535A for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 13:27:11 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qk0-f176.google.com (mail-qk0-f176.google.com [209.85.220.176]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6BB92580491 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 13:01:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by qku63 with SMTP id 63so159235067qku.3 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 12:07:46 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=0bQRXlkO1ctEMpY0VNBNbgA4rD/8CcALTSPnGB1wWfY=; b=CPooh0ImfZRzRFC7EckzUQMva0MowlFGqjGq7jNXGSi6AyaDlu/OaDL5CNu1lkb4pc 4OeoQ9pr/rhL+v4qdn+Y12iaSTn8jXL0Az5sPeW1bQfIdBuumJqB8KsGLOMUsmBhC9S/ I59eKSE94OodXPpbMbje/f5hXYi+3m+XWKIoWGCKTmg7b2UhD49FymuK0CeQb1dzkQru RmqNho6YqzJHavn7hhBg0d15ES+wjJjNbyUjZmSz/Q6muXFauIddVU/Df54BhtPfurcx GWhXeFdaipZsjDdiFkpMu9gXEKCK+Ueda8WeDmcsFUyNbavf1QppccPAvm5xAItWeFY1 NTEA== 19mr5523351qhs.74.1429297666650; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 12:07:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.140.107.101 with HTTP; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 12:07:46 -0700 (PDT) References: Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 14:07:46 -0500 From: RandE To: "eric@megageek.com" Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Weird Rotor Issue Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sounds like the Pistons could be sticking. Maybe take the pads out and tap on the Pistons to see if they free up. I've found that NAPA has really good prices for rotors for the 2nd gen but I haven't priced them for Spyders. On Friday, April 17, 2015, wrote: > Hello, > > The SO's car is a Toyota MR2 Spider (05). She doesn't drive it alot and > it sat all winter in WV under a carport roof. > > Now, the brakes are making some noise and the car isn't stopping properly > (it takes longer to stop and there is speed related intermittent noise.) > > Here is the weird part, I know that rotors can get rusty without use, and > that is most likely what happened here. The problem is that even after > lots of driving, the edges of the rotors are still pitted and it looks > like only the insides of the pads are stopping the car. > > So, I was planning on flushing the brake fluid and driving it some more to > see if that take care of the problem. OR do I need to put new rotors on > this car? The pads still have plenty of meat on them. > > SO is returning to WV on Weds, so I need to do this quick. What's the > wisdom here think is the safest option? (Toyota rotors are ridiculously > over priced and don't want to replace all four if I don't need to.) > > Here are two photos of the rotors... > >http://tinyurl.com/weirdrotor< > > > Thanks! > > > Sent from my Commodore 64 on a 2400 Baud Modem. > Eric P > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/rande@pobox.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 17 13:27:39 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0722925857A7 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 13:27:39 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from BLU004-OMC2S23.hotmail.com (blu004-omc2s23.hotmail.com [65.55.111.98]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD02B2580491 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 13:08:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from BLU180-W63 ([65.55.111.72]) by BLU004-OMC2S23.hotmail.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.22751); Fri, 17 Apr 2015 12:14:47 -0700 From: "Tim ." To: Shop Talk Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 14:14:46 -0500 References: FILETIME=[C4E63CD0:01D07942] Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Weird Rotor Issue Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Having owned and worked on the brakes for an Avalon, a Solara and a Highlander, all I can offer is my personal experience that Toyota brakes suck; especially the rears. I've had rear rotors get ruined in less than 5000 miles because the calipers that were fine suddenly failed/locked up. And this has happened on all three vehicles. I am not talking about vehicles that have hundreds of thousands of miles on them either. The Avalon did this practically right out of the box. Not sure what you pay for rotors, but AdvanceAuto has better prices on rotors than the other two FLAPS that I use. And Advance has their speed perks that gives nice discounts via your email. I never got any discounts or coupons from CARQUEST. good lucktim > To: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net > From: eric@megageek.com > Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 13:18:37 -0400 > Subject: [Shop-talk] Weird Rotor Issue > > Hello, > > The SO's car is a Toyota MR2 Spider (05). She doesn't drive it alot and > it sat all winter in WV under a carport roof. > > Now, the brakes are making some noise and the car isn't stopping properly > (it takes longer to stop and there is speed related intermittent noise.) > > Here is the weird part, I know that rotors can get rusty without use, and > that is most likely what happened here. The problem is that even after > lots of driving, the edges of the rotors are still pitted and it looks > like only the insides of the pads are stopping the car. > > So, I was planning on flushing the brake fluid and driving it some more to > see if that take care of the problem. OR do I need to put new rotors on > this car? The pads still have plenty of meat on them. > > SO is returning to WV on Weds, so I need to do this quick. What's the > wisdom here think is the safest option? (Toyota rotors are ridiculously > over priced and don't want to replace all four if I don't need to.) > > Here are two photos of the rotors... > >http://tinyurl.com/weirdrotor< > > > Thanks! > > > Sent from my Commodore 64 on a 2400 Baud Modem. > Eric P > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tims_datsun_stuff@outlook.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 17 13:27:58 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93C7C2586A80 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 13:27:58 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from BAY004-OMC2S17.hotmail.com (bay004-omc2s17.hotmail.com [65.54.190.92]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 350D82580491 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 13:10:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from BAY402-EAS37 ([65.54.190.123]) by BAY004-OMC2S17.hotmail.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.22751); Fri, 17 Apr 2015 12:16:39 -0700 Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 12:17:25 -0700 From: Jack Brooks To: FILETIME=[07B5D070:01D07943] Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Weird Rotor Issue Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Eric, The smaller braking area is typical of (salt) corrosion working it's way in from the perimeter. Replace the rotors with aftermarket If Toyota is too pricy. You now have a reduced braking area. Jack --- Original Message --- From: eric@megageek.com Sent: April 17, 2015 11:02 AM To: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net Subject: [Shop-talk] Weird Rotor Issue Hello, The SO's car is a Toyota MR2 Spider (05). She doesn't drive it alot and it sat all winter in WV under a carport roof. Now, the brakes are making some noise and the car isn't stopping properly (it takes longer to stop and there is speed related intermittent noise.) Here is the weird part, I know that rotors can get rusty without use, and that is most likely what happened here. The problem is that even after lots of driving, the edges of the rotors are still pitted and it looks like only the insides of the pads are stopping the car. So, I was planning on flushing the brake fluid and driving it some more to see if that take care of the problem. OR do I need to put new rotors on this car? The pads still have plenty of meat on them. SO is returning to WV on Weds, so I need to do this quick. What's the wisdom here think is the safest option? (Toyota rotors are ridiculously over priced and don't want to replace all four if I don't need to.) Here are two photos of the rotors... >http://tinyurl.com/weirdrotor< Thanks! Sent from my Commodore 64 on a 2400 Baud Modem. Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jibrooks@live.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 17 13:43:29 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C9C02586F82 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 13:43:29 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm27.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (nm27.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [98.138.90.90]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3CA22580491 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 13:24:14 -0600 (MDT) s=s2048; t=1429299021; bh=c9X9rH5g+lfB5gxAcYa706sr1JaK2jomp8Px2feQBj4=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Subject:From:Subject; b=T4BN1J/xnOIR9YRfStTTLVc+KJpMhWqSGpghGiFgoP3N7yBkt21BQt6jH1AuWA2NR3En98QlZIB5f7AOubOVFGQBpBBYBg1s62BO0wb5Yk7vdEOFPd8rPJ726QFrUHzpTi9kCCKe51N4eVh3qnCVVyj3nyTjTyT6SfihVyzKTDvdeSW59iyUWv6wLu0+IJloLNJHBt4SsY5P9dSnOsc9nJEa5peMCV7qfDaaq+TXlCE8lsgNL8BV4Xoka2rVupguG0PcFq7GVCy8F242vkNxxxiovp/RqDtBRC+9nH0q9cIXaMAjiFkuEWjpNK9EK2ik9sn9L14dqKRk8wjwefqePQ== Received: from [98.138.226.176] by nm27.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Apr 2015 19:30:21 -0000 Received: from [98.138.89.240] by tm11.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Apr 2015 19:30:21 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1013.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Apr 2015 19:30:21 -0000 eAmqPaGELMg0HKywbhmXN1X5Abhyq2.kW9LxmoUxz2ss9lkunVfTfeuCfjfxesKrMbp06v9WQGKF Hs6AzTiCNsJ0rJOylo9vBG9Sw2D1ziYfyV2loJMhqgH3FgISm5bzO2BG.Vu_80f2mm4ObmsWvD9w Zx_we7Pm034HsGFWQH8bc36BlIyg6qErTno1P3FlDhwBoa3.Wwc2CDmNTa_vnbN40RYr3oINmBPS 2fjepayCpdk9a7Rs0a1cETjr.WMAk7JrtyWqDsS5u8d8Tf37suLJ23gWm5QxHFKNSVWhwGo7Z0hK ZOqDsffddMnUfKCnm9WtA6RjT3xaXYukJVkUyDMNMXzU3fKVUcdSaGawbmcl8bW7O0teUFRq9Igl 6q1ZBq3vSNq3WNufMBUnT4ianUapzAzcQ0VRaiqODNRfgfyj5ukVXoRmiVM1IF9vHhPi_X0w- Received: by 98.138.105.215; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 19:30:21 +0000 Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 19:30:20 +0000 (UTC) From: Obaa To: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: [Shop-talk] Installing Time-sert into an engine case? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I recently bought an older ('01) Ducati 900 2V, which has the kickstand bolted directly to the aluminum engine case. The kickstand is held on by two M10x1.5 bolts, which extend 20mm into the case. B The kickstand was wobbly, so I inspected it and found that the outer 10mm of threads in the engine case mounting points are stripped out; the inner threads seem okay. B The mounting points themselves are ~27mm deep blind holes, and are ~18mm machined round bosses (I'm guessing machined square to the bore in order to act as the mounting surface for the kickstand). My options for repairing this seem to be:1) Loctite form-a-thread (epoxy): this didn't seem strong enough2) heli-coils: I'm not sure that I trust the strength/durability of heli-coils as I've seen a couple break before.3) Keen-serts: the deepest Keen-sert I could find was 14mm. Which leaves me with Time-serts. B I think they should be the strongest, and they are available with the correct 20mm depth insert, but I worried about getting them installed properly. B I've heard that the holes have to be drilled very accurately for the insert to hold properly; this would be tough to do with the bike assembled. B (Also, I think the insert itself is externally threaded with an English thread, which would leave me buggered if the insert didn't work) I'm trying to come up with a way to ensure that I drill the holes properly (squarely) into the case. B I was thinking to get appropriately sized drill bushings, such asB http://www.amazon.com/I-D-Drill-Standard-Press-Bushing/dp/B002RLJ5WEB To hold the bushings aligned to the case during the drilling, I was going to "super-glue" them to the case, and then remove when done by either a sharp side-ways blow (shear them off the case), or dousing them with acetone to dissolve the bond. Does this seem like it would work?B _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 17 14:13:23 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0990E25854C6 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 14:13:23 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (ftx-008-i765.relay.mailchannels.net [50.61.143.65]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AB372580B8A for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 13:46:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ibis.arvixe.com (ip-10-213-14-133.us-west-2.compute.internal [10.213.14.133]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id D67926067F for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 19:52:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ibis.arvixe.com ([UNAVAILABLE]. [10.83.15.107]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.4.8); Fri, 17 Apr 2015 19:52:19 +0000 Received: from c-98-253-220-190.hsd1.il.comcast.net ([98.253.220.190]:65181 helo=[192.168.1.129]) by ibis.arvixe.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1YjCJB-0001sV-A9 for shop-talk@autox.team.net; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 12:52:13 -0700 Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 14:52:12 -0500 From: Matt Wehland User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Weird Rotor Issue Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Only experience with one Toyota, 2009 Corolla, bought because I was tired of working on cars to get to work. ~33,000 miles and the brakes weren't working right. Pads were worn, completely unevenly. Calipers were stuck, pins rusted. Not a big deal, but on a new car with that low of mileage? As suggested check that the calipers are moving freely, grease the pins good. Good Luck. Matt _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 17 14:59:29 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4724325875DD for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 14:59:29 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from homiemail-a92.g.dreamhost.com (sub5.mail.dreamhost.com [208.113.200.129]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6240D258550F for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 14:39:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from homiemail-a92.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a92.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4818E3DC06D for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 13:45:59 -0700 (PDT) :content-type:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:references:to :in-reply-to; s=groupwbench.org; bh=tnzvPQgCplXdcijkjgHI5WS1zzs= ; b=eNRYngGMSfK7GVpYN4MEPE7BQuYAe8eUz0VzVxlO2O/czNIijtDSDGXVu3UM irHcomhLFpQht6ZWc0S1y1sdXrJ0lyr0QQ5mNJx48jXczv4CoqTD+RtVvGPggUAR iln0XCl3NOfUQ58fn5plZ0xAQSATcelWKoHb8KngUzggaT4= Received: from jims-imac.home (pool-98-118-108-149.bstnma.fios.verizon.net [98.118.108.149]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jamesf@groupwbench.org) by homiemail-a92.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C52AC3DC05E for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 13:45:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Franklin Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 16:45:56 -0400 References: <680200762.5386032.1429299020268.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Installing Time-sert into an engine case? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Apr 17, 2015, at 3:30 PM, Obaa wrote: > (Also, I think the insert itself is > externally threaded with an English thread, which would leave me buggered if > the insert didn't work) Couldn't you just drill out the sidestand mounting plate and use bolts that match the timesert thread if this happened? > I'm trying to come up with a way to ensure that I drill the holes properly > (squarely) into the case. I don't think this is a critical as you say, for this application. There is nothing that the timesert references external to the hole, so the hole can be off by a bit. > B I was thinking to get appropriately sized drill > bushings, such > asB http://www.amazon.com/I-D-Drill-Standard-Press-Bushing/dp/B002RLJ5WEB To > hold the bushings aligned to the case during the drilling, I was going to > "super-glue" them to the case, and then remove when done by either a sharp > side-ways blow (shear them off the case), or dousing them with acetone to > dissolve the bond. > Does this seem like it would work?B I'd be worried about the bushing either coming loose from drilling, or not coming off at all, etc. Have you glued steel to aluminum before? How about using the sidestand itself as a drill guide? jim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 17 17:43:52 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E66E32586D37 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 17:43:51 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ie0-f180.google.com (mail-ie0-f180.google.com [209.85.223.180]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF8132580BBB for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 17:17:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by iecrt8 with SMTP id rt8so70854338iec.0 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 16:23:11 -0700 (PDT) d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=zUrrvi/NcBRpAB8TizLHbXQ8y38eqzXihB1NXDzdRVA=; b=kWfDPyjRzdMkRFBfBXp84aMBgn5c0EBvTElpN48gfWDGV0LyRuSK8DOXAtw1Ari7C3 J0M1+kslF4o3YjwIt2XM4eR2DNJnwEWkbqWg6zMEldx9x0g27P5CW0V4Xn1hJoptOZRI nARzdlqWrEGfebk4bsnMgLW0xAQGA6KbphZbj1yG+Ua33nY9B2WgAmFH0QBMO5BAr+wD i96pim070EluafR6RS+dmAxR4VxAfFJVyMDQ2vBKVHZ8pqTzPZmTrufTwRmRrwHXouNc IjI6ujZPs9hXgjMXgZ7Rha7vDpS55kLWR0ronhVmGug3i27cavtyJxpcIpxqwk29RvjU cjVw== qo4mr6025589igb.33.1429312991797; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 16:23:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.136.7 with HTTP; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 16:23:11 -0700 (PDT) References: Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 19:23:11 -0400 From: Doug Braun To: eric@megageek.com Cc: Shop-Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Weird Rotor Issue Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Is that a rear rotor? Well, look at this one, that I took off my '98 Outback last year: http://www.dougbraun.com/pix/subaru_rotor.jpg That's the inside surface of the rear rotor. The outside was more-or-less decent looking, and the pads were fine, but the brakes were getting more and more vibration. The photo was taken after lots of large scaly chunks of rust were knocked off. The car was driven regularly, but always lived outside. Doug On Fri, Apr 17, 2015 at 1:18 PM, wrote: > Hello, > > The SO's car is a Toyota MR2 Spider (05). She doesn't drive it alot and > it sat all winter in WV under a carport roof. > > Now, the brakes are making some noise and the car isn't stopping properly > (it takes longer to stop and there is speed related intermittent noise.) > > Here is the weird part, I know that rotors can get rusty without use, and > that is most likely what happened here. The problem is that even after > lots of driving, the edges of the rotors are still pitted and it looks > like only the insides of the pads are stopping the car. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 17 21:00:01 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC0832585614 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 21:00:00 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from filter01.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net (filter01.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net [199.224.80.228]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B2D92584C89 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 20:29:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by filter01.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B6482720CA for ; Sat, 18 Apr 2015 02:35:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from relay02.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net ([199.224.80.245]) by localhost (filter01.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net [199.224.80.228]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 5jYZyZsKER4i for ; Sat, 18 Apr 2015 02:35:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unknown [50.34.108.246]) by relay02.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id A35F54A09B for ; Sat, 18 Apr 2015 02:35:09 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 19:35:25 -0700 From: Dave Cavanaugh User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 To: "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: [Shop-talk] Mice? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Or voles, or field mice. Small rodents are trying to nest in the engine compartment of my 2004 Sierra (the previous subject of towing a bunch of iron to Utah from Washington). Last week when I popped the hood a mouse was standing on the fan shroud just staring at me, then it wandered down to the extensive nest it had made above the left cylinder bank. I vacuumed/blew the nest material out and went about my project of trying to determine the axle ratio/engine size. Today I moved the truck out of the shop and into the driveway and when I got out of the truck a mouse ran out of the engine compartment and into the shrubbery. The engine smells like mouse pee, but I can't find any new nest. I hosed the top of the engine block down with Lysol, but I need to find something to keep the mice away, if possible. Any ideas? I really don't want to have them get into the cab. A few years ago they got into the ac/heat fan blower cage of my wife's Forester and THAT was a mess to clean out because they had babies. Unfortunately they didn't survive cycling the fan a few times, and Subaru made the fan modular so it was pretty simple to get out once I figured out how. So any ideas on rodent repellant? I have already asked my wife to have our pest control contractor come out and put bait stations in the shop, but that might not be enough. Thanks _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 17 21:58:42 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 454792584ED8 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 21:58:42 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cdptpa-oedge-vip.email.rr.com (cdptpa-outbound-snat.email.rr.com [107.14.166.229]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 394E025806EE for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 21:33:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.248.153.253] ([172.248.153.253:3203] helo=rypc) by cdptpa-oedge03 (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.5.0.35861 r(Momo-dev:tip)) with ESMTP id 89/E7-19825-CF1D1355; Sat, 18 Apr 2015 03:39:41 +0000 From: "Randall" To: Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 20:39:44 -0700 Thread-Index: AdB5hKG+55VIgi3IQwej0nVdXf43TgABCWjA Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Mice? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > So any ideas on rodent repellant? I have already asked my > wife to have > our pest control contractor come out and put bait stations in > the shop, > but that might not be enough. I use the soft green solid type bait, and put blocks out in any areas where I particularly don't want rodents. Seems like they usually learn to avoid the stuff, at least I haven't found any bodies for a long time, but it sure keeps them away. Although I've not tried it, you could probably tie a block on a string somewhere under the hood. The little trays with the pellets don't seem to work nearly as well. -- Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 17 22:28:26 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4EE125846EA for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 22:28:26 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm5-vm4.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (nm5-vm4.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [98.138.91.165]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DB2325844CA for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2015 22:13:28 -0600 (MDT) s=s2048; t=1429330775; bh=KMPLudDpCzOjax/X0ReyhNr/tz9TVEaea9K6ct4SgiI=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=YIkXgwLZAYZYyzJ6JqbJCW5t9JeO8s6img77gSHqkTRKRAvCcZQDMv6+quLfX1hzyG5XhuiS6F/Mjqs1X4Diyq3w2CPnPe3c+eC8HR/wKZaQJfpYs7vsDR9DP0hi9/a2IrqwYLW4QSxdnAU41gqH1c8tQrpbrnQBw1a+OcOpNWb0Jv6741mU0buPbYM1jC+kzjS3CIihBL0DZpMVEfN0zZMJwhdQ32ljoD0aLlllF1FVUmBo6UUf37jFLdOC1LKD+CE6643LtoK0WHZAB5kilRLTC8PgtpPiuHUrDB/Yd0EMdpZ3CudnnMqjpLLdjSvWICRMaNmAnBXbfd/ChHcIsg== Received: from [98.138.226.177] by nm5.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Apr 2015 04:19:35 -0000 Received: from [98.138.89.162] by tm12.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Apr 2015 04:19:35 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1018.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Apr 2015 04:19:35 -0000 J5m_3lVgrtwM7dg1yElB7fg7DG9lqoE2BQKkwLtLZepWSmJ9wtrKs5YmXQ6A0fDycOIpW8VMscpe ndbCLN.aK74qBI9kpiC2OeVQCTkVMeh.md3a8q9n5uLAKXlVhgTZ27Qx1TDHslt0owtHhTOJlZu. NBMx7raRXamr.kzNQsZQVUbo3zh4BhZg7A52RE4WitYfn4EOZR8yLq6OK9w5J9WNzqR_dloQ9uOA 98GY4AUAyniKGFG_BnGtpJ4qq2Il3kZs31YPLdHoLxh579TALQ7Aa73msJQglQxyBiyy0L4xlRx6 vLbh4mAmzkdXC7TytC8yWVIvWRiT8yVTSVPl6DzlX2yPkbP4rSF8z4lrkCRbs26Xx_dxyV14wdZU cyVhWpB6Ozk2yU8Q6Vbf_ob7Tk3aAenDPHTVdGek.ta4liXZ7_Rfa_TwGk.y6nbLQGALkgC1sMkQ bMjucg40NrEcu2see9wB6nLjeZZK5HGPqRUz3TwPkHKLk1MguY4DHiA-- Received: by 98.138.101.169; Sat, 18 Apr 2015 04:19:35 +0000 Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 04:19:33 +0000 (UTC) From: ROBERT LANE To: Randall , "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" References: <89.E7.19825.CF1D1355@cdptpa-oedge03> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Mice? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net PeppermintB is supposed to hated by mice and keep keeps them away.B B Check it out on the Internet.B B CATCH YOU LATER,B B B ROBO On Friday, April 17, 2015 11:05 PM, Randall wrote: > So any ideas on rodent repellant?B I have already asked my > wife to have > our pest control contractor come out and put bait stations in > the shop, > but that might not be enough. I use the soft green solid type bait, and put blocks out in any areas where I particularly don't want rodents.B Seems like they usually learn to avoid the stuff, at least I haven't found any bodies for a long time, but it sure keeps them away.B Although I've not tried it, you could probably tie a block on a string somewhere under the hood. The little trays with the pellets don't seem to work nearly as well. -- RandallB _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/robolane@sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 18 07:45:08 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EB92258059D for ; Sat, 18 Apr 2015 07:45:08 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from BLU004-OMC4S21.hotmail.com (blu004-omc4s21.hotmail.com [65.55.111.160]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5CAD258053C for ; Sat, 18 Apr 2015 07:23:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from BLU180-W71 ([65.55.111.136]) by BLU004-OMC4S21.hotmail.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.22751); Sat, 18 Apr 2015 06:30:07 -0700 From: "Tim ." To: Dave Cavanaugh , Shop Talk Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 08:30:07 -0500 References: <5531C2ED.8080506@frontier.com> FILETIME=[C920E7C0:01D079DB] Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Mice? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net The decon pellets definitely don't work all that well. I had trays in the garage and shop a few years ago. They got emptied but I never found any bodies. Turns out the little bastards were taking the stuff and storing it for later..... I had an engine for the Datsun on the stand over that winter. When I started the disassembly process that spring the water pump was full of decon pellets. The little bastards. Moth balls and dryer sheets work as well. good luck > Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 19:35:25 -0700 > From: cavanadd@frontier.com > To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Subject: [Shop-talk] Mice? > > Or voles, or field mice. Small rodents are trying to nest in the engine > compartment of my 2004 Sierra (the previous subject of towing a bunch of > iron to Utah from Washington). Last week when I popped the hood a mouse > was standing on the fan shroud just staring at me, then it wandered down > to the extensive nest it had made above the left cylinder bank. I > vacuumed/blew the nest material out and went about my project of trying > to determine the axle ratio/engine size. Today I moved the truck out of > the shop and into the driveway and when I got out of the truck a mouse > ran out of the engine compartment and into the shrubbery. The engine > smells like mouse pee, but I can't find any new nest. I hosed the top > of the engine block down with Lysol, but I need to find something to > keep the mice away, if possible. Any ideas? I really don't want to > have them get into the cab. A few years ago they got into the ac/heat > fan blower cage of my wife's Forester and THAT was a mess to clean out > because they had babies. Unfortunately they didn't survive cycling the > fan a few times, and Subaru made the fan modular so it was pretty simple > to get out once I figured out how. > > So any ideas on rodent repellant? I have already asked my wife to have > our pest control contractor come out and put bait stations in the shop, > but that might not be enough. > > Thanks > _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 18 10:45:41 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B0EC2584B7D for ; Sat, 18 Apr 2015 10:45:41 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-pd0-f173.google.com (mail-pd0-f173.google.com [209.85.192.173]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F7092584FB7 for ; Sat, 18 Apr 2015 10:23:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by pdbqa5 with SMTP id qa5so159977896pdb.1 for ; Sat, 18 Apr 2015 09:29:18 -0700 (PDT) d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:from:reply-to:user-agent :mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=x710sqLneFRdqETsfXdWtXSFN3rFEkOODSIywLQ8zaw=; b=CxQzbEZeyGEq24NQ4ZunjnyRBOzWKzgRKlUjgx+9A+OTq787ZEHuXtvstaEbI7yVoV eXC5QfGVugVxksyW911M7/a89VHDCvxZl9YmDlrSTafVbuZewjPuFcc88V5OyzjcZLTW guKIMeItGepCHcTL7nz/ktFGSOccrb9Ktsppt0z9lnN7oVbIP9ZtwR/rYcnw0LoZn+rU ifpRf+FFp5JLktATHdNNveGh6Jq1N8pTMZ+tORbtgkCBoUBiRQcxTCl6r0n+ii0+YRjp V1ZxwF84L/tBXRtTimdF1J0e5JI3yWC1XpYq0ZUHajTwM6vhpDnRxZZmvnhZmsxfd7c8 GoCw== Sat, 18 Apr 2015 09:29:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.7] (24-116-64-184.cpe.cableone.net. [24.116.64.184]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id a12sm13353733pbu.21.2015.04.18.09.29.16 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 18 Apr 2015 09:29:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 09:29:13 -0700 From: Badger Mountain Motorworks User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 To: Shop Talk References: <5531C2ED.8080506@frontier.com> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Mice? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 19 07:52:29 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5ADBB25845BD for ; Sun, 19 Apr 2015 07:52:29 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from dogbert2.mail.megageek.com (nj-69-34-94-16.sta.embarqhsd.net [69.34.94.16]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 177B8258047A for ; Sun, 19 Apr 2015 07:34:33 -0600 (MDT) References: <5531C2ED.8080506@frontier.com> To: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net From: eric@megageek.com Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 09:21:20 -0400 7.0.1|January 17, 2006) at 04/19/2015 09:21:25, Serialize complete at 04/19/2015 09:21:25 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Mice? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Dave asks about pest control... Dave, here is what I use... http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/tomcatreg%3B-rat-and-mouse-place-pacs-22-piece-pail-3-oz-each It really cheap. Don't worry about getting the 'stations'. Just put these blocks in or near where you are having a problem. Put them in a 'harder to reach' area if you have other animals that you like. I live in the country where mice and rats love to get into my trailers/ barns/ etc. This stuff solved the problem. I believe that once they eat it, they look for water (IE, leave the house/car) and when they drink it expands and kills them. So no dead critters IN the house to smell. I'm not sure that is how these work, but since I've been using them, I don't have an critter problems and I had to start feeding the stray cats cause there isn't enough 'mices' for them to eat. Sent from my Commodore 64 on a 2400 Baud Modem. Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 19 11:11:49 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF8B4258512F for ; Sun, 19 Apr 2015 11:11:48 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-ch2-11v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-11v.sys.comcast.net [69.252.207.43]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA0822585123 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 2015 10:56:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-13v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.109]) by resqmta-ch2-11v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id Ht321q0022N9P4d01t33gQ; Sun, 19 Apr 2015 17:03:03 +0000 Received: from resmail-ch2-322v.sys.comcast.net ([162.150.49.101]) by resomta-ch2-13v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id Ht321q00H2Azwqi01t32Bf; Sun, 19 Apr 2015 17:03:02 +0000 Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 17:03:02 +0000 (UTC) From: Gordie Bird To: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net References: <5531C2ED.8080506@frontier.com> (Win)/8.0.7_GA_6031) Thread-Topic: Mice? Thread-Index: Q2RFmY1pv2tIBe6dCiTkbNo3368VhA== s=q20140121; t=1429462983; bh=FKF/Ipslvyk3LtVz2ZwaKE9cEA+xUtnuD9J0pQ2FMCs=; h=Received:Received:Date:From:To:Message-ID:Subject:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=Lenc1Vx4zH0Y9GxDdv37fTRCX6tY6uExJbmWJPX69bGJ8EX12cWfBxbK6JqB7dMrt 9O3nvhHDklaibavw8BQYJFCcYADy9pr1++5cSV4h1ypOVsoYeXY2yrxiPVs+e31U27 NL1d460eFRgId0iiOuWW4ml/46OMTFeE4sHBbOygkBUqXHm97C2EZD34+koNXjQLR0 Xlts0MRrUA0k+tT7VpvG+26tGwcH4ymfdBkDqLg/RwqSnBTIUK2Jb0s1Y/d3YfkgC9 y4i7NoSG4KXDeXEn9DHztKp40EGoJKMeJwpVcbx7WdD8C6bSZ83VDTLtJ9OzIzJxMV FIJdUzX8cUyLw== Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Mice? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I've found Contrac blocks to be about the best...buy a multi-yr supply at www.domyownpestcontrol.com, here http://tinyurl.com/pqz4qud . Pro pest guy once told me blocks prevent their ability to move and store before ingesting. Last winter particularly bad here (Michigan) for some reason, but with blocks had none in garage, house, or shed. Tried for the AC unit, but died doing so. HTH Gordie ----- Original Message ----- From: eric@megageek.com To: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2015 9:21:20 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Mice? Dave asks about pest control... Dave, here is what I use... http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/tomcatreg%3B-rat-and-mouse-place-pacs-22-piece-pail-3-oz-each It really cheap. Don't worry about getting the 'stations'. Just put these blocks in or near where you are having a problem. Put them in a 'harder to reach' area if you have other animals that you like. I live in the country where mice and rats love to get into my trailers/ barns/ etc. This stuff solved the problem. I believe that once they eat it, they look for water (IE, leave the house/car) and when they drink it expands and kills them. So no dead critters IN the house to smell. I'm not sure that is how these work, but since I've been using them, I don't have an critter problems and I had to start feeding the stray cats cause there isn't enough 'mices' for them to eat. Sent from my Commodore 64 on a 2400 Baud Modem. Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 23 15:42:30 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43B47258504A for ; Thu, 23 Apr 2015 15:42:30 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from BLU004-OMC2S25.hotmail.com (blu004-omc2s25.hotmail.com [65.55.111.100]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7F082580A34 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 2015 15:29:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from BLU180-W74 ([65.55.111.71]) by BLU004-OMC2S25.hotmail.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.22751); Thu, 23 Apr 2015 14:36:03 -0700 From: "Tim ." To: Shop Talk Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2015 16:36:02 -0500 FILETIME=[7F9A5600:01D07E0D] Subject: [Shop-talk] Johnson Controls A-4210-1 line dryer Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Hey all, A few years ago I bought one of these line dryers for about a $100 knowing that it most likely didn't work. (Hell, I don't even know how it would work or how I'd hook up to it.) It might not be complete but looks like it. What I'm wondering is does anyone have any experience using one of these? Is it too much for total amateur hour in my shop? in addition to many air tools, I have a blast cabinet and would like to learn how to paint. I hope to find a place to check this thing out and see if it is worth fixing/reconditioning. thanks tim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 24 08:54:18 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 399DE25854CE for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 08:54:18 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from homiemail-a44.g.dreamhost.com (sub5.mail.dreamhost.com [208.113.200.129]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E851A2580256 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 08:47:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from homiemail-a44.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a44.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2479118060 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 07:53:13 -0700 (PDT) :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:subject:message-id:date :to:mime-version; s=groupwbench.org; bh=U/COFo4RrsgulU34jvmRJAQo wjY=; b=qQL7i1ZWxLn1Mj/iHEjyfYlP7cjKUyEmoTJ4G7SUItvzmspUE++xoeaU T4T6Nl3dyOLa4nYe+5jmyi9e1UZJdFEZy/wZryIIhgQGvNdHVnCjkXMV9kXoTLtM NskjImU8bPiGPclwlWEYPxUeh2/oe4lhG6/sFXnjna9+SomaBec= Received: from jims-imac.home (pool-98-118-108-149.bstnma.fios.verizon.net [98.118.108.149]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jamesf@groupwbench.org) by homiemail-a44.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7C69A118057 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 07:53:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Franklin Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 10:53:12 -0400 To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] 5x8 trailer decking ideas? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Been quiet for a few days, don't want the collective to lose it's edge :-) I have a 5x8 utility trailer with a mesh floor that needs a more supportive deck for 2 motorcycles. I'd like to keep it one piece to stop any water infiltration that might lift the seam. I've seen 5x8 ply mentioned for ping pong tables, but not in exterior grade. There is 5x8 diamond plate (slippery and expensive), so I'm looking around for other ideas before I butt 4x8 CDX together. thanks, _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 24 09:23:16 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 829502585497 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 09:23:16 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from p3plsmtpa07-04.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (p3plsmtpa07-04.prod.phx3.secureserver.net [173.201.192.233]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A0A3258455F for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 08:57:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PatsOffice ([184.105.18.14]) by p3plsmtpa07-04.prod.phx3.secureserver.net with id Kr491q00H0JCzvc01r49ie; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 08:04:10 -0700 From: "Pat Horne" To: "'Jim Franklin'" , References: <2085EA86-283E-4893-9BFF-8E98B73376CF@groupwbench.org> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 10:04:07 -0500 Thread-Index: AdB+n3O2w5eu5/F8TleG7MMab42FBgAADbTQ Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] 5x8 trailer decking ideas? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Do some research on MDO (Medium Density Overlay). I've been told that it is what overhead highway signs are made of. I replaced the front wall of my enclosed with it a couple years ago and have had no problems with it. You may be able to find it 5' wide. Where are you located, I forgot! Peace, Pat -----Original Message----- From: Shop-talk [mailto:shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jim Franklin Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 9:53 AM To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] 5x8 trailer decking ideas? Been quiet for a few days, don't want the collective to lose it's edge :-) I have a 5x8 utility trailer with a mesh floor that needs a more supportive deck for 2 motorcycles. I'd like to keep it one piece to stop any water infiltration that might lift the seam. I've seen 5x8 ply mentioned for ping pong tables, but not in exterior grade. There is 5x8 diamond plate (slippery and expensive), so I'm looking around for other ideas before I butt 4x8 CDX together. thanks, _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat@hornesystemstx.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 24 09:53:33 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73EC62585F2F for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 09:53:33 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from smtp.centurylink.net (mail.centurylink.net [205.219.233.9]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E9B025849C5 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 09:42:34 -0600 (MDT) X_CMAE_Category: , , a=I0wsP0/ub+0M/VQyKFHlEA==:17 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=xwPayol1AAAA:8 a=vqVkQKOZTJ7Oq9aOlUQA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=I0wsP0/ub+0M/VQyKFHlEA==:117 Authentication-Results: smtp01.agate.dfw.synacor.com smtp.user=ejrussell@mebtel.net; auth=pass (LOGIN) Received: from [99.194.29.42] ([99.194.29.42:65149] helo=EricJRussellPC) by smtp.centurylink.net (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.5.1.37854 r(Momo-dev:3.5.1.0)) with ESMTPA id 54/53-29355-AD56A355; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 11:48:45 -0400 From: "Eric J Russell" To: "Jim Franklin" , References: <2085EA86-283E-4893-9BFF-8E98B73376CF@groupwbench.org> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 11:48:11 -0400 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] 5x8 trailer decking ideas? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > I have a 5x8 utility trailer with a mesh floor that needs a more > supportive > deck for 2 motorcycles. I'd like to keep it one piece to stop any water > infiltration that might lift the seam. Our contractor used a waterproof tongue & groove particle board type product for the sub-floor decking of the room above our garage. I saved the cut-offs. It has proved very strong and durable/waterproof. Pieces left outside for years have weathered to gray but not otherwise deteriorated. My flat bed car trailer has pressure treated 2X decking. It is screwed to the steel framing with torx drive self-tapping flat head screws. Eric Russell Mebane, NC _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 24 10:08:43 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8FB72584F04 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 10:08:43 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from homiemail-a57.g.dreamhost.com (sub5.mail.dreamhost.com [208.113.200.129]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53FDE2584B23 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 10:07:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from homiemail-a57.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a57.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27E0C20806D for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 09:13:21 -0700 (PDT) :content-type:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:references:to :in-reply-to; s=groupwbench.org; bh=Th0U/+PwZa6gPfgVHzf4k0WAsXE= ; b=GEhw6osFkBoNz3cHPl6EfOlEgHoXGOf9WmiQEH9TneAE4aOfb2D1XVz/uN6i J2aJ07unDCYS94iJlu5Nyf4ZZOqK8/pbfIG4+sEzRV4vI+0aCQ2cmZ9S68bbTjxb YMCD0KqJMXeF0xm5PLtQ/snq0wMgdPzUkZ6UAK0iDxlYirs= Received: from jims-imac.home (pool-98-118-108-149.bstnma.fios.verizon.net [98.118.108.149]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jamesf@groupwbench.org) by homiemail-a57.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C0B6B20801C for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 09:13:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Franklin Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 12:13:18 -0400 References: <2085EA86-283E-4893-9BFF-8E98B73376CF@groupwbench.org> <010001d07e9f$ea16ffa0$be44fee0$@com> To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] 5x8 trailer decking ideas? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I'm in MA, up near the NH border. I was hoping for something lighter than the resin board type of things, since I'll be near max weight with the 2 bikes already. Probably makes sense just to get some CDX and deal with the seam; if I run it longways at least I reduce mu chances of tripping on it :-) jim On Apr 24, 2015, at 11:04 AM, Pat Horne wrote: > Do some research on MDO (Medium Density Overlay). I've been told that it is > what overhead highway signs are made of. I replaced the front wall of my > enclosed with it a couple years ago and have had no problems with it. You > may be able to find it 5' wide. Where are you located, I forgot! > > Peace, > Pat > > -----Original Message----- > From: Shop-talk [mailto:shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jim > Franklin > Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 9:53 AM > To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Subject: [Shop-talk] 5x8 trailer decking ideas? > > Been quiet for a few days, don't want the collective to lose it's edge :-) > > I have a 5x8 utility trailer with a mesh floor that needs a more supportive > deck for 2 motorcycles. I'd like to keep it one piece to stop any water > infiltration that might lift the seam. > > I've seen 5x8 ply mentioned for ping pong tables, but not in exterior grade. > > There is 5x8 diamond plate (slippery and expensive), so I'm looking around > for other ideas before I butt 4x8 CDX together. > > thanks, > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat@hornesystemstx.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 24 10:38:51 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 183E12585BA0 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 10:38:51 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ob0-f171.google.com (mail-ob0-f171.google.com [209.85.214.171]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD5122585027 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 10:27:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by obbeb7 with SMTP id eb7so41659902obb.3 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 09:33:32 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc :content-type; bh=uDKhMZjFIVgDxIb800BN9npIBWQ/PfhB6KKO4MVuDGY=; b=bJxExcsvxV1qJv5Vsqx/Hl8R1LFrQ7WcN4Xi1AlfHEI8L/3qVjpPsCA6SLA1M1zH0V B87w7Mcn2boWmLznduoSMC/U/4dL8PjgwiK0oW/wwAUsXGP+6rCXk+w2cW4P/STQiSxf GKypFncj9kEXhiSJpq+UC0HLNHZFOK+jUtswjbR52jluSj0ILXwq2Rcj789bY1X6i812 bcIreBRilX64ZKakHB3uZCpKZHzGxKKEALKWBpjG8+Pht0V0CqF0mO9VRl2zb1tHcpco 4ex+guOpIcdMc1vNgaI3wFHynhkGN1Y6p8gmrT784iy9uhUXbftA9XKmaiM7yyD1MoAy /+YQ== na5mr8284976obb.9.1429893212415; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 09:33:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.105.68 with HTTP; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 09:33:32 -0700 (PDT) References: <2085EA86-283E-4893-9BFF-8E98B73376CF@groupwbench.org> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 11:33:32 -0500 From: Ronnie Day Cc: Shop Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] 5x8 trailer decking ideas? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I don't think a solid bed is a good idea. I'd consider using 2 x 12s, even though you'd need to figure a way to attach them to the existing decking, that shouldn't be hard to do. We have a 5 x 10 trailer that was originally decked with untreated 2 x 12s. Over several years the back end of those rotted away. When I replaced them I used treated 2 x 12s, primed and painted on all sides and the ends, before I put them down. Wasn't real cheap, but not terribly expensive either. No issues since and they're a solid base for pretty much anything I want to put in the trailer. I left a nail width cap between the boards so water wouldn't sit on the bed. FWIW On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 9:53 AM, Jim Franklin wrote: > Been quiet for a few days, don't want the collective to lose it's edge :-) > > I have a 5x8 utility trailer with a mesh floor that needs a more supportive > deck for 2 motorcycles. I'd like to keep it one piece to stop any water > infiltration that might lift the seam. > > I've seen 5x8 ply mentioned for ping pong tables, but not in exterior > grade. > > There is 5x8 diamond plate (slippery and expensive), so I'm looking around > for > other ideas before I butt 4x8 CDX together. > > thanks, > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ronnie.day@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 24 10:39:17 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC0212585F90 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 10:39:17 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.203]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF3642585027 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 10:28:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Steve-PC.optonline.net (ool-44c2b798.dyn.optonline.net [68.194.183.152]) by mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPA id <0NNB006IRKPIM9M0@mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for Shop-talk@autox.team.net; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 12:34:31 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 12:34:23 -0400 From: Steven Trovato To: Jim Franklin , Shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <2085EA86-283E-4893-9BFF-8E98B73376CF@groupwbench.org> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] 5x8 trailer decking ideas? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net By mesh do you mean expanded metal? You know, that is available in different mesh sizes and metal gauges. Also, perhaps you just need a bit more support under the floor. Or perhaps you can add channels for the motorcycles themselves, like this: http://www.nealtrailermfg.com/triplemot.html. That one is for three, but you could do two if that's what you need. -Steve T. At 10:53 AM 4/24/2015, Jim Franklin wrote: >Been quiet for a few days, don't want the collective to lose it's edge :-) > >I have a 5x8 utility trailer with a mesh floor that needs a more supportive >deck for 2 motorcycles. I'd like to keep it one piece to stop any water >infiltration that might lift the seam. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 24 15:13:07 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E0BC2584AEE for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 15:13:07 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-pd0-f173.google.com (mail-pd0-f173.google.com [209.85.192.173]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D88A02580535 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 14:42:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by pdea3 with SMTP id a3so58508330pde.3 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 13:48:50 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=u6a6aaqNzFCIJo+o4WQ1OWR6jL5NCatADE3mUpgZ2gc=; b=fIBri+G31XIYNdZNbik4l//aN1ZoHfsNOvAgdCaHeLkYeDtQaR54miwB+GaocdinMx GwmtsQa58SOnPDyF5NI99KepFQd260DP49fNAEC7DE4iGnPBKUeYdwldcjsiPdRgGAZz 580fGH3mGSrid0sPS4Sbp107o9jHZy+it8hhAhgFTSDN9dboD7he+4kQfLaEH7aI8t4X EiV2vFWzq15nkpl4sUcy8xp3FAFy0Lw7ZftB8/P65GGb0759GrTFJoFrcDfeNZeVmqY4 ZpQEdub4OIN+dtcldxaIYB1DoC+tEdSzUhh6aFJcIlBGA8uydPc3XTpvrhsVywrRIFBD Fumw== zr8mr422242pab.23.1429908530698; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 13:48:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.75.104 with HTTP; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 13:48:50 -0700 (PDT) References: <2085EA86-283E-4893-9BFF-8E98B73376CF@groupwbench.org> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 15:48:50 -0500 From: David Scheidt To: Jim Franklin Cc: shop-talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] 5x8 trailer decking ideas? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 9:53 AM, Jim Franklin wrote: > Been quiet for a few days, don't want the collective to lose it's edge :-) > > I have a 5x8 utility trailer with a mesh floor that needs a more supportive > deck for 2 motorcycles. I'd like to keep it one piece to stop any water > infiltration that might lift the seam. > > I've seen 5x8 ply mentioned for ping pong tables, but not in exterior grade. > 5X8 and 5X10 are standard sizes for BS1066 marine plywood. They'll cost more (maybe much more), than the equivalent area in 4X8 sheets. If carrying the bikes is the only reason for upgrading, I'd think hard about a solution that just adds the support for the bikes. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 24 15:25:49 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 316932584B7E for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 15:25:49 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from homiemail-a92.g.dreamhost.com (sub5.mail.dreamhost.com [208.113.200.129]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F4DD2584614 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 15:02:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from homiemail-a92.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a92.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00FAC3DC06D for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 14:08:26 -0700 (PDT) :content-type:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:references:to :in-reply-to; s=groupwbench.org; bh=dErVy9vhdl02XyT+FY9wBce1luk= ; b=YHkoFyZyoJ7/cEmeeHkgyfYeVWspbQREgpbgI9z1jiAqB7G8crfxKs7Ej2f8 VriOGQgtuqM04o7jKtawnboogiGG/tWsoW1iYlFdXyCwUAQ23dyCplfC2NBTUTXM eRXCUgPBi9jQ6+K+VMCv8dD4SiXFKt1KUMH5906UAjGazEw= Received: from jims-imac.home (pool-98-118-108-149.bstnma.fios.verizon.net [98.118.108.149]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jamesf@groupwbench.org) by homiemail-a92.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9296A3DC05E for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 14:08:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Franklin Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 17:08:23 -0400 References: <2085EA86-283E-4893-9BFF-8E98B73376CF@groupwbench.org> To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] 5x8 trailer decking ideas? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Apr 24, 2015, at 4:48 PM, David Scheidt wrote: > 5X8 and 5X10 are standard sizes for BS1066 marine plywood. They'll > cost more (maybe much more), than the equivalent area in 4X8 sheets. > If carrying the bikes is the only reason for upgrading, I'd think hard > about a solution that just adds the support for the bikes. This is the trailer. The mesh floor is barely strong enough to support me, plus it lets in all the road spray/debris/etc. I'm at the very least going to cover it with CDX, if I don't find anything better, since I also use it to haul misc stuff, which right now requires a lot of "position engineering" so the weight is on the crossmembers. Your suggestion had me look at a few marine forums, and people asking the same question were told to laminate their own from 3/8" (or pay big bucks). I'm not near enough to the water to make it worth a trip anyway. http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/carry-on-trailerreg%3B-5-ft-w-x-8-ft-l- specialty-single-axle-trailer-1500-lb-payload-capacity jim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 24 16:27:22 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 030852584B0E for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 16:27:22 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from itonami.pair.com (itonami.pair.com [209.68.2.178]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D03C2584578 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 16:15:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by itonami.pair.com (Postfix, from userid 3198) id 7C4A08FC12; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 18:21:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by itonami.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 793C78FC0F for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 18:21:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 18:21:50 -0400 (EDT) From: David Hillman To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <2085EA86-283E-4893-9BFF-8E98B73376CF@groupwbench.org> <502BCE25-1F76-4E7C-99C8-BDD725EB5C05@groupwbench.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.02 (BSF 1266 2009-07-14) Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] 5x8 trailer decking ideas? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Fri, 24 Apr 2015, Jim Franklin wrote: > This is the trailer. The mesh floor is barely strong enough to support me, > plus it lets in all the road spray/debris/etc. I'm at the very least going to > cover it with CDX, if I don't find anything better, since I also use it to > haul misc stuff, which right now requires a lot of "position engineering" so > the weight is on the crossmembers. So, if I understand you correctly, your priorities are a solid, weather-resistant, inexpensive and lightweight floor? That's gonna be tough, I think. You might have to pick two or three. For what it's worth, since we're throwing out ideas, I just put a new layer of floor in my enclosed 20' car hauler. The original floor was OSB, and not in terrible shape, but stained from various spills by the previous owner. I covered it with 15/32nds plywood, and then coated that liberally with Herculiner. It wasn't stupid cheap ( although much of the ply was scrap I already had and I picked up 3 gallons for $40/ea on craigslist ) and I can't speak to the longevity yet as I just did it, but it's an idea. The trailer had rubber coin-pattern interlocking tiles when I got it, but they didn't work for my use like I thought they would. I transport a racecar that is almost always covered in ice and snow, so weather-proofing from the inside is paramount to me. If I were you, I'd probably put two coats of quality exterior paint on both sides of some plywood, then install it, and call it good. In my last (enclosed) trailer, I used Behr porch paint on the floor, with play sand mixed in for traction. That worked, too, but I didn't keep it long. -- David Hillman _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 24 16:56:44 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B6E72584620 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 16:56:44 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from homiemail-a91.g.dreamhost.com (sub5.mail.dreamhost.com [208.113.200.129]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1E832580152 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 16:32:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from homiemail-a91.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a91.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 072CEAE05B for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 15:38:30 -0700 (PDT) :content-type:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:references:to :in-reply-to; s=groupwbench.org; bh=/gFC+GIHrPgvKLGjStCcU4qyb0M= ; b=gRz002KiPsEQhVrvKmKzypj9IXtmDIWTKySjM7i+XWYKUHB7qFnrm/YnVzEX FtZgJfQqdnKmoa5NOuyWlGM1uBALmifxWnQUmUOYIMRzmY9dyQ0xaWHnZg1Kdpwx iw/LRTXVDYo8OxMyn7Mmib/baBjkeP4N/zjt80Nq6ctxJiM= Received: from jims-imac.home (pool-98-118-108-149.bstnma.fios.verizon.net [98.118.108.149]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jamesf@groupwbench.org) by homiemail-a91.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A4A0BAE059 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 15:38:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Franklin Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 18:38:27 -0400 References: <2085EA86-283E-4893-9BFF-8E98B73376CF@groupwbench.org> <502BCE25-1F76-4E7C-99C8-BDD725EB5C05@groupwbench.org> To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] 5x8 trailer decking ideas? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Apr 24, 2015, at 6:21 PM, David Hillman wrote: > So, if I understand you correctly, your priorities are a solid, weather-resistant, inexpensive and lightweight floor? Yes! Exactly! :-) > If I were you, I'd probably put two coats of quality exterior paint on both sides of some plywood, then install it, and call it good. In my last (enclosed) trailer, I used Behr porch paint on the floor, with play sand mixed in for traction. That worked, too, but I didn't keep it long. Any thoughts on the longevity of the sand? I will be putting down some kind of non-skid, and didn't think sand would stay adhered to the paint for long. jim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 24 16:57:09 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0F7A2585B04 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 16:57:08 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.66]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B0BD2580152 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 16:36:59 -0600 (MDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=G96G05LNjkkWjvZsKckSFZF43oz9pcsz2xbVlsWZ86FURaK5zJNUifRHampozrU/; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [172.6.13.121] (helo=[192.168.1.3]) by elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1YlmJS-0000Dh-Rc; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 18:43:10 -0400 Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 15:42:22 -0700 From: Brian Kemp User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 To: Jim Franklin , Shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <2085EA86-283E-4893-9BFF-8E98B73376CF@groupwbench.org> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] 5x8 trailer decking ideas? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Jim - If you go with plywood, check with a real lumber yard. I purchased 5x8 sheets of 3/4" exterior plywood for my balcony which is 5 x 45. It cost more than 4x8, but the time/labor savings of not ripping 1' sections and blocking for the edges was worth it. For clarification, the plywood is covered with a metal lath, waterproof cement, epoxy, and color/texture layers. Brian On 4/24/2015 7:53 AM, Jim Franklin wrote: > Been quiet for a few days, don't want the collective to lose it's edge :-) > > I have a 5x8 utility trailer with a mesh floor that needs a more supportive > deck for 2 motorcycles. I'd like to keep it one piece to stop any water > infiltration that might lift the seam. > > I've seen 5x8 ply mentioned for ping pong tables, but not in exterior grade. > > There is 5x8 diamond plate (slippery and expensive), so I'm looking around for > other ideas before I butt 4x8 CDX together. > > thanks, > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 25 10:04:01 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 456B4258445E for ; Sat, 25 Apr 2015 10:04:01 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from itonami.pair.com (itonami.pair.com [209.68.2.178]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D1B7258059F for ; Sat, 25 Apr 2015 09:41:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by itonami.pair.com (Postfix, from userid 3198) id DD3E88FC12; Sat, 25 Apr 2015 11:47:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by itonami.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC8DA8FC0F for ; Sat, 25 Apr 2015 11:47:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2015 11:47:26 -0400 (EDT) From: David Hillman To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <2085EA86-283E-4893-9BFF-8E98B73376CF@groupwbench.org> <502BCE25-1F76-4E7C-99C8-BDD725EB5C05@groupwbench.org> <4165ED40-4230-41F0-AFFC-73B520A1B31B@groupwbench.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.02 (BSF 1266 2009-07-14) Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] 5x8 trailer decking ideas? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Fri, 24 Apr 2015, Jim Franklin wrote: > Any thoughts on the longevity of the sand? I will be putting down some kind of > non-skid, and didn't think sand would stay adhered to the paint for long. Can't say, I didn't keep the trailer long enough. Hot tires will pull up almost anything. Sand/paint is probably the cheapest way to go, but if you are keeping this trailer for a long time, the additional cost of Herculiner or similar would not be, in my opinion, prohibitive. You're talking $30/ga for exterior paint plus some sand, versus $78/ga for Herculiner ( on Amazon ). Labor on each would be the same. Good luck. -- David Hillman _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 29 16:52:18 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53D9F2584748 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2015 16:52:18 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nk11p10mm-asmtp002.mac.com (nk11p10mm-asmtp002.mac.com [17.158.185.186]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF09825803E9 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2015 16:45:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (99-7-68-55.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net [99.7.68.55]) by nk11p10mm-asmtp002.mac.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7.0.5.35.0 64bit (built Dec 4 2014)) with ESMTPSA id <0NNL00135BH4OU40@nk11p10mm-asmtp002.mac.com> for shop-talk@autox.team.net; Wed, 29 Apr 2015 22:51:05 +0000 (GMT) engine=2.50.10432:5.13.68,1.0.33,0.0.0000 definitions=2015-04-29_07:2015-04-29,2015-04-29,1970-01-01 signatures=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=2 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1412110000 definitions=main-1504290280 From: Robert nogueira Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 17:51:08 -0500 To: Shop-talk Subject: [Shop-talk] Spotless car rinsing Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Several years ago I bought several Mr. Clean Auto-dry car washing kits on close out (cheap). It is basically a water gun that despenses soap and rinse water. The only rewarding feature of the gadget is a cartridge which is inserted and that mixes a solution in a final mist rinse which allows the wet car to dry without water spots. I can understand why the product was discontinued as at full retail it was expensive and rather cheaply made. The spot free rinsing however is wonderful. Now that I'm on my last cartridge I'm looking for a substitute or an idea of what they used in the cartridge to allow the final mist rinse to dry spot free. Any suggestion? Bob Nogueira _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 29 17:22:32 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD6DE2584A36 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2015 17:22:32 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ie0-f170.google.com (mail-ie0-f170.google.com [209.85.223.170]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5204F25846C4 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2015 17:22:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by iedfl3 with SMTP id fl3so61738931ied.1 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2015 16:28:40 -0700 (PDT) d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=n8X+Wrq5jvfiBde7GpegtpIxi8mux4jIpIjPSOlA9Yk=; b=RTJx8GQ4ik4WS9hnCDrIn5NiCFTnyeTUXn5hH5lKCc+Gta2DDGaTfLFLIgHEdJ7lT/ +pL5LWNre9FDzlr0k0nUvUlxKmVD3nkGhX/WZ+CFll6W6+nn9b9Cekzq/hS6FjnWgNws aQ+VeODpGqhXJsV0uyNLfZ72plnuGp8A9e1jBLPo/oH+FGbJNSR78Lr13U3TPNKbzJA5 PgokZbKPtGkO5piOoq/jELKI5RHL6lrb0c+eAT5pgRnkgdXXu3Y2SBHA0aTBFFUjDCCb 9MWBHfs1QQLyAff1rCyxuesjzmhvJFZRT33iOqhnQwDSMtrRbjwl3Mv3GpMp3yFWngDZ JP6g== Wed, 29 Apr 2015 16:28:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.116.198 with HTTP; Wed, 29 Apr 2015 16:28:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.116.198 with HTTP; Wed, 29 Apr 2015 16:28:39 -0700 (PDT) References: <84F093BA-CC30-4857-9D62-BC215B843610@me.com> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 19:28:39 -0400 From: Doug Braun To: Robert nogueira Cc: Shop-talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Spotless car rinsing Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net The rinse aid they sell for dishwashers? Doug _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 29 17:37:22 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B278E2584B10 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2015 17:37:22 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from st11p02mm-asmtp001.mac.com (st11p02mm-asmtpout001.mac.com [17.172.220.236]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE56825847EA for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2015 17:34:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.0.44] (174-25-41-13.ptld.qwest.net [174.25.41.13]) by st11p02mm-asmtp001.mac.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7.0.5.35.0 64bit (built Dec 4 2014)) with ESMTPSA id <0NNL00HH5DSCK020@st11p02mm-asmtp001.mac.com> for shop-talk@autox.team.net; Wed, 29 Apr 2015 23:41:04 +0000 (GMT) engine=2.50.10432:5.13.68,1.0.33,0.0.0000 definitions=2015-04-29_07:2015-04-29,2015-04-29,1970-01-01 signatures=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1412110000 definitions=main-1504290291 From: Darrell Walker Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 16:41:00 -0700 References: <84F093BA-CC30-4857-9D62-BC215B843610@me.com> To: Robert nogueira Cc: Shop-talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Spotless car rinsing Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I have one of those, too. I believe the rinse cartridge is a DI resin. I have not looked to see if it would be possible to remove the expired resin and replace with some bulk resin: http://www.amazon.com/Deionization-Resin-Mixed-Color-Changing/dp/B000X92KOC -Darrell _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive