Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Axle ratio?

From: Mark J Bradakis <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 15:20:03 -0600

Dave Cavanaugh wrote:
> I have a 2004 GMC Sierra extended cab, short bed.  I would like to find the axle ratio and engine size.

The engine should be encoded in the VIN. For the axle ratio you may have to actually get under it and compare
turns of the wheels to turns of the driveshaft.

And thanks for reminding me about shop-talk, I forgot this one yesterday. Hang on a few minutes.

mjb.
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From: John Innis <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 16:31:58 -0500

There should be a sticker inside the driver door jamb that shows the
trailer capacity of your specific truck.  That sticker (if it is still
there) is specific to your VIN, so if it is missing you MIGHT be able to
get a dealer to look up all the pertinent information.  The RPO codes in
the glove box SHOULD tell you your axle ratio, but you have to find the
decoder specific to your year.  Of course the low tech solution is to lift
the rear end and see how many turns of the prop shaft are required to get
one revolution of the rear wheels.

On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 2:46 PM, Dave Cavanaugh <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> I have a 2004 GMC Sierra extended cab, short bed.  I would like to find
> the axle ratio and engine size.  I am pretty sure the engine is a 5.3
> Vortec, but I'm having trouble finding the axle ratio. None of the codes in
> the glove box match anything I read on line.  Any pointers?  I will need to
> be towing a trailer quite a bit in the future and need to know how heavy I
> can go.
>
> Thanks
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From: Jim Franklin <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 17:55:28 -0400

On Apr 12, 2015, at 3:46 PM, Dave Cavanaugh <[email-masked]> wrote:

> I have a 2004 GMC Sierra extended cab, short bed.  I would like to find the
axle ratio and engine size.  I am pretty sure the engine is a 5.3 Vortec, but
I'm having trouble finding the axle ratio. None of the codes in the glove box
match anything I read on line.  Any pointers?  I will need to be towing a
trailer quite a bit in the future and need to know how heavy I can go.

If you can't read the tag on the rear end, you can do a quick and dirty
guesstimtae by counting the number of times the driveshaft turns to make one
revolution of the rear wheel (you'll need to keep one rear wheel from turning
if it isn't a limited slip). The more accurate way is to chalk the driveshaft
and rear wheel, then spin the driveshaft, and count the number of turns of
each until the chalk marks line up again, then divide the smaller number into
the larger. Helps to have a second set of eyes for the latter method.

The first should get you close enough to match to a published number like
3.23, 3.73, etc.
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From: John Miller <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 21:12:07 -0700

> revolution

It's gonna be 3.73-ish or 4.10-ish, I'm guessing.

The chassis and powertrain are the same either way, but the GM tow 
rating is based on what the engine can pull.

Know from personal experience that combo will pull a 6000lb (steel-frame 
wood-deck open car trailer with 3500 on the trailer plus a bunch in the 
bed) over the lumps between California and Oregon quite handily with the 
4.10.

My '03 2500 Suburban 4x4 with the 6-liter LQ4 is rated at something like 
7500lb with the 3.73 it's got, and 11K with the 4.10, the 
chassis/brakes/cooling are the same, it's all about the ability of the 
thing to get out of its own way when loaded.  The 6-liter LQ4 doesn't 
mind having the crap beat out of it, but sometimes you really do have to 
beat the crap out if it.

Shame they never offered the damn Sub with a Duratec.  Swap cost is 
prohibitive, an Edelbrock TVS1900 blower for the LQ4 is $5K-ish but it's 
got 150K miles on it so...

John.

[email-masked]

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From: Jeff Scarbrough <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 07:44:01 -0400

On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 3:46 PM, Dave Cavanaugh <[email-masked]> wrote:
> Any pointers?  I will need to be towing a trailer quite a bit in the future
> and need to know how heavy I can go.

While worrying about the go, don't neglect the whoa.  Make sure your
brakes are adequate to stop any mass that you have set in motion.

Jeff Scarbrough
Corrosion Acres, Ga.

[email-masked]

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From: David Hillman <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 14:14:44 -0400 (EDT)

> trailer quite a bit in the future and need to know how heavy I can go.

    Have you owned the truck since new?  If so, check the window sticker.

    If not, I would say that there's no way you can be sure the original 
diff, whatever it was, remains.  So, in that case, you have to spin the 
driveshaft and count the wheel rotations.

and Eric wrote...
> FWIW, a truck with a heavy load on a trailer with properly functioning
> brakes can normally stop in LESS distance than just the truck alone.

    I do not believe this, and it is contrary to my experience, and that of 
basically everyone I can find.  It is also the opposite of what you are 
taught when you get your CDL.

<http://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/27wz8u/til_an_empty_semitruck_has_a_longer_stopping/>
<http://special-reports.pickuptrucks.com/2013/06/2013-light-duty-challenge-braking.html>
<http://www.driversafetypro.com/stopdist.gif>

    I'm aware of the simple physics argument.  Simple physics does not do a 
very good job of describing the interaction between modern rubber tires 
and imperfect road surfaces, among other things.

    No way, no how have any of my trucks stopped faster with a loaded 
trailer than alone.  If you believe the opposite, why are racecars light?

--
  David Hillman

[email-masked]

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From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 16:47:04 -0500

> taught when you get your CDL.

The issue, historically, has been that brake proportioning wasn't
adjusted for changing trailer weight.  So  brakes got set up so they'd
work right when the trailer was loaded.  When it was empty, they were
too aggressive, and you couldn't brake the tractor as hard before the
trailer brakes locked up.  Better proportioning valves, and for the
last 20 years, ABS, have made this less of a problem for heavy duty
trucks.  It's still an issue on smaller trailers; if you have an
electric brake, you can make adjustments, but it's still bad.

In the wet, a loaded tire can have somewhat less bad traction than it
would when unloaded, which can improve braking performance.

-- 
David Scheidt
[email-masked]

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From: Dave Cavanaugh <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 20:27:42 -0700

Amazingly enough I was able to find it.  My wife was able to dig out the 
file, and the window sticker was there.  It is a 5300 Vortec with 3.42 
(locking) rear axle and a 6200 GVW rating.  It also has "heavy duty 
trailering equip" which I assume means a transmission cooler and a nice 
receiver hitch and light plug.

Given these details, any other stuff I might want to consider adding 
before towing several loads of shop tools (table saws, shapers, etc) 
over a bunch of mountains in western Oregon and southern Idaho?

[email-masked]

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From: John Miller <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 09:58:42 -0700

> over a bunch of mountains in western Oregon and southern Idaho?

Stereo Bluetooth.

John.

[email-masked]

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From: David Hillman <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 14:38:58 -0400 (EDT)

> receiver hitch and light plug.

    Not sure if you already figured this out or not, but according to the 
super-handy Trailer-Life Towing Guide*, your tow rating is 7,100 
lbs ( 1500 Ext Cab RWD SB with b,f options... top line of right column, 
page 4 in the 2004 book ).

> over a bunch of mountains in western Oregon and southern Idaho?

    I think there's a whole bunch of relevant detail omitted here.  What 
kind of trailer?  How old?  Does it have brakes?  What kind?  How heavy is 
it empty?  How much weight are you planning to load into it?  Does your 
truck have a brake controller?  If not, you're going to want to install a 
Tekonsha Prodigy.

    Some people swear by weight distributing hitches.  Some people even use 
them all the time, regardless of load.  I have one, but I don't find it 
makes a noticeable difference below about 5000 pounds trailer weight.
However, when I tow ~7000 as I often do now ( with my F150 which is rated 
for 9700 and weighs about 6000 ) it is very much worth both the small 
expense to buy it, and the add'l time to hook it up each trip.

    Good luck.

--
  David Hillman

* <http://www.trailerlife.com/trailer-towing-guides/>
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From: Dave Cavanaugh <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 19:44:20 -0700

All excellent points.  As of now, I don't have a trailer, I am just 
exploring options.  I may rent the largest flatbed that UHaul rents for 
a couple of one way trips, or I may just rent a large Ryder with a lift 
gate and be done with it.  That, however, won't solve the problem of the 
tractor.

Most of the heavy stuff consists of vintage cast iron woodworking power 
tools:  18" Powermatic planer, Delta 12/14" TS, Powermatic 10" TS,  two 
shapers, wide belt sander, RAS, edge sander, drill presses, tenoner, 
mortiser, couple of medium size band saws.  I will palletize everything 
that isn't on skids, and already have a pallet jack and will rent a 
forklift.  I can determine the weight of each machine from the vendor 
literature, and will calculate the footprint to determine how much I can 
get on the truck or trailer.  That will be at least two trailer loads, 
probably.  Then all of the other shop stuff, workbenches, portable 
tools, supplies and so on are another trip.  Then my hardwood supply, 
probably 1500 b/f of poplar, alder, maple and other odds and ends.  That 
is a load in itself.  Then there is the tractor.  It's a New Holland 
TC30 with a loader and backhoe.  They backhoe could be removed and moved 
separately as it adds quite a bit of length and a not insubstantial 
amount of weight to the load.  And that is just the SHOP stuff.  The 
tractor and accessories will require towing down with the trailer; I 
just don't see any way around it.  At least I can take the bucket off 
the front and put a set of forks on it, for moving stuff on the other end.

On 4/14/2015 11:38 AM, David Hillman wrote:
> kind of trailer?  How old?  Does it have brakes?  What kind?  How 
> heavy is it empty?  How much weight are you planning to load into it?  
> Does your truck have a brake controller?  If not, you're going to want 
> to install a Tekonsha Prodigy

[email-masked]

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From: Paul Parkanzky <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 08:51:25 -0400

That tractor isn't too bad.  According to TractorData.com your TC30 weighs
2200# for the bare tractor.  Figure another ~1000# for the loader and a bit
less for the backhoe.  I suspect that you're right around 4000# for the
setup unless you've loaded the tires or added some other ballast you
haven't mentioned.

For the move you're talking about, I'd get the Penske truck with the
lift-gate and move all the equipment on pallets like you've described.  It
will be well worth your money to have easy loading and unloading and
one-and-done on the trip.  Having everything covered is a huge bonus.

Just about any car trailer would haul your tractor, although I'd try to
find something a bit heavier-duty (i.e. 10k# GVWR instead of 7k#).  I just
ordered a trailer in part to haul my tractor (A JD 2032R, so the same class
as yours but a touch lighter) and ended up going with a 14k# low-profile
tilt-deck because the cost (both empty weight and $$$) to step up to 14k#
was minimal.  If you happen to be making this move from anywhere near Grand
Rapids, MI you can use that to haul your tractor and all the implements.

Good luck with the move!  We just moved 25 miles and it wasn't easy.  I can
only imagine the stress of pulling up stakes to head across the country!

Regards,

-Paul

On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 10:44 PM, Dave Cavanaugh <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> exploring options.  I may rent the largest flatbed that UHaul rents for a
> couple of one way trips, or I may just rent a large Ryder with a lift gate
> and be done with it.  That, however, won't solve the problem of the tractor.
>
> probably.  Then all of the other shop stuff, workbenches, portable tools,
> supplies and so on are another trip.  Then my hardwood supply, probably
> 1500 b/f of poplar, alder, maple and other odds and ends.  That is a load
> in itself.  Then there is the tractor.  It's a New Holland TC30 with a
> loader and backhoe.  They backhoe could be removed and moved separately as
> it adds quite a bit of length and a not insubstantial amount of weight to
> the load.  And that is just the SHOP stuff.  The tractor and accessories
> will require towing down with the trailer; I just don't see any way around
> it.  At least I can take the bucket off the front and put a set of forks on
> it, for moving stuff on the other end.
>
>> I think there's a whole bunch of relevant detail omitted here.  What kind
>> of trailer?  How old?  Does it have brakes?  What kind?  How heavy is it
>> empty?  How much weight are you planning to load into it?  Does your truck
>> have a brake controller?  If not, you're going to want to install a
>> Tekonsha Prodigy
>>
> options/shop-talk/[email-masked]

[email-masked]

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From: Mike <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 10:05:45 -0700

I have moved several times, from local to cross-country.  In some ways, 
the long distance is easier, because with short distances, you end up 
making many, many trips.  On a long distance move, you are forced to do 
it more efficiently.  Also, there is more incentive to weed out things 
you don't really need (none of the shop stuff, of course!).  We actually 
left all our living room furniture for the kids to use in their 
apartments, and were 'forced' to buy new when we got to the new house.

Mike

[email-masked]

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From: Matt Wehland <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 12:27:45 -0500

I would second the box truck with lift gate.
Compare fuel costs for your truck (along with wear and tear) vs rental 
and mileage, plus the value of your time, especially during a stressful 
move.
I have done moves both ways, and the box truck sure makes it easier, 
even when it has cost more.

The only time that moving by personal vehicle worked out better was when 
I was making multiple trips to work on the property already and did not 
have room for stuff yet.

Also my favorite box truck trick if you have room, make it a walk in 
closet, run a bar or two across the truck to hang all your clothes on.
Just hang them up, drive and then walk them into your new closets.

Matt

-- 
Matt Wehland

[email-masked]

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From: Brian Kemp <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 16:53:10 -0700

David - On the tractor, you might want to see about finding someone to 
haul that for you.  It's been a long time for me so don't have details 
anymore, but I needed some 3 pallets from PA to CA and had no urgency.  
We worked with a shipping place that held the load for a convenient 
truck with room and got a big discount.

I'd expect there are places to list a load online and look for a bargain 
from someone with an empty trailer returning home.

For the tools, I second the idea of renting an enclosed truck. Think 
about trying to keep all the tools dry if you hit some rain or security 
if you park overnight.  The truck may also have the ability to pull a 
trailer for the tractor, but be sure to talk about the loads with a 
smart person at the rental place.

Brian

On 4/15/2015 7:44 PM, Dave Cavanaugh wrote:
> exploring options.  I may rent the largest flatbed that UHaul rents 
> for a couple of one way trips, or I may just rent a large Ryder with a 
> lift gate and be done with it.  That, however, won't solve the problem 
> of the tractor.
>
> Most of the heavy stuff consists of vintage cast iron woodworking 
> power tools:  18" Powermatic planer, Delta 12/14" TS, Powermatic 10" 
> TS,  two shapers, wide belt sander, RAS, edge sander, drill presses, 
> tenoner, mortiser, couple of medium size band saws.  I will palletize 
> everything that isn't on skids, and already have a pallet jack and 
> will rent a forklift.  I can determine the weight of each machine from 
> the vendor literature, and will calculate the footprint to determine 
> how much I can get on the truck or trailer.  That will be at least two 
> trailer loads, probably.  Then all of the other shop stuff, 
> workbenches, portable tools, supplies and so on are another trip.  
> Then my hardwood supply, probably 1500 b/f of poplar, alder, maple and 
> other odds and ends.  That is a load in itself.  Then there is the 
> tractor.  It's a New Holland TC30 with a loader and backhoe.  They 
> backhoe could be removed and moved separately as it adds quite a bit 
> of length and a not insubstantial amount of weight to the load.  And 
> that is just the SHOP stuff.  The tractor and accessories will require 
> towing down with the trailer; I just don't see any way around it.  At 
> least I can take the bucket off the front and put a set of forks on 
>> heavy is it empty?  How much weight are you planning to load into 
>> it?  Does your truck have a brake controller?  If not, you're going 
>> to want to install a Tekonsha Prodigy
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