Subject: [Shop-talk] Air Hose Reel Rec

From: David Hillman <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 18:29:06 -0500 (EST)

I want to add a retractable air hose reel in my shop, so I can have air 
out in the driveway and other places, without wrestling with the 100' hose 
I have now.  I don't need 100', 75 or even 50 would be fine.  My priority 
is that it not leak.  I have no leaks in my system now, and don't want to 
add any.  It would be nice to have hose that stays flexible when cold, as 
it gets a little chilly here in Illinois ( -10 F tonight, supposedly ) and 
I will use it then, to inflate trailer and iceracer tires, among other 
things.

    Any recommendations to buy, or ones to avoid?  Thanks.

--
  David Hillman
_______________________________________________

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 18:17:17 -0500 7.0.1|January 17, 2006) at 02/17/2015 18:17:14, Serialize complete at 02/17/2015 18:17:14

I have a 150' reel of rubber hose.  It never tangles or freezes.  The reel 
doesn't have a name on it, but it came from a rescue vehicle supply house. 
 It wasn't cheap, but it doesn't leak.

I think a better option for you is to put a ball valve right before the 
hose reel.  Then you 'shut off' the supply to the reel.  Not only does 
this prevent you from having any leaks if you want to get a cheaper unit, 
but when you have the hose pulled out, you shut off the supply, then drain 
the air out of the hose and it will reel up much easier!

Enjoy!

Eric P
"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational 
being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph 
Waldo Emerson 

David Hillman <[email-masked]> 
Sent by: "Shop-talk" <[email-masked]>
02/17/2015 06:12 PM

To
Shop-Talk <[email-masked]>
cc

Subject
[Shop-talk] Air Hose Reel Rec

    I want to add a retractable air hose reel in my shop, so I can have 
air 
out in the driveway and other places, without wrestling with the 100' hose 

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
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From: "john niolon" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 17:39:55 -0600

David... I agree with Eric...   I've got two... one commercial unit from a
fire hose company and one from Harbor freight...   neither leak but the
hoses do...   I put a ball valve before each and a drain stub under each.  I
just flip the lever off when I don't need air for a few minutes then back on
when I need it...   it goes off when the job is done and I don't lose my
tanks charge...   The really good commercial ones are VERY expensive..  

john

-----Original Message-----
From: Shop-talk [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of David
Hillman
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 5:29 PM
To: Shop-Talk
Subject: [Shop-talk] Air Hose Reel Rec

    I want to add a retractable air hose reel in my shop, so I can have air
out in the driveway and other places, without wrestling with the 100' hose I
have now.  I don't need 100', 75 or even 50 would be fine.  My priority is
that it not leak.  I have no leaks in my system now, and don't want to add
any.  It would be nice to have hose that stays flexible when cold, as it
gets a little chilly here in Illinois ( -10 F tonight, supposedly ) and I
will use it then, to inflate trailer and iceracer tires, among other things.

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]

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From: David Hillman <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:26:14 -0500 (EST)

> tanks charge...   The really good commercial ones are VERY expensive..

    My 'shop' is really a 2.5 car attached garage, and I have the 
compressor in a shed outside.  Copper line runs into the garage on the 
rear wall, right by the entry/exit stairs to the house.  There's a ball 
valve there with a big orange handle at eye level... I still don't always 
shut it off when I should ;)  Sometimes I think I'm going inside for just 
a minute, and wind up done for the day, etc.  I might not get back out 
there for a few days.

    It's not a huge deal if it leaks, but I'm kind of picky, and I feel 
like if we can land a probe on a comet, we ought to be able to build a 
hose reel that doesn't leak.  At least not when it is brand new.

    And I already had to replace one ball valve that developed a leak in 
about a year, defeating its entire purpose.

    Thanks.

[email-masked]

---

From: Dave Cavanaugh <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 18:48:34 -0800

I have three of the Harbor Freight retractable reels in my shop. The 
reels don't seem to leak, but on two of them the short hoses from my 
copper air lines to the hose reel developed leaks and I just replaced 
them with regular hose.  I also have a 3/4" ball valve on the wall where 
the air line comes into the shop from the shed and I keep it closed 
whenever I'm not in the shop.  My lines don't leak but sometimes the QD 
fittings do.

On 2/17/2015 3:29 PM, David Hillman wrote:
> air out in the driveway and other places, without wrestling with the 
> 100' hose I have now.  I don't need 100', 75 or even 50 would be 
> fine.  My priority is that it not leak.  I have no leaks in my system 
> now, and don't want to add any.  It would be nice to have hose that 
> stays flexible when cold, as it gets a little chilly here in Illinois 
> ( -10 F tonight, supposedly ) and I will use it then, to inflate 
> trailer and iceracer tires, among other things.
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]

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From: John Miller <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 18:58:55 -0800

On 2/17/2015 6:48 PM, Dave Cavanaugh wrote:
> I have three of the Harbor Freight retractable reels in my shop.

I have two of the Harbor Freight hose reels.  So far so good, one's been 
in regular use for 8+ years, the other 6+.

Considerations: the rubber hose is okay, not great.  When the hose 
started to crack around the threaded end I cut the end off the hose, 
bought a barbed quick-connect socket from McMaster-Carr, installed it 
with a couple Oetiker clamps, and put some heatshrink over the clamps. 
If it starts to crack again I'll cut it and move it up four inches.  The 
ball valves in the branches are a good idea, wish I'd done so 
consistently, though the only leakage in my air system comes from crud 
accumulating in the quick-connect sockets, not in the hosereel hardware.

Before you put the hosereel up on the wall remove the four nuts and 
lockwashers that hold the reel to the ratchet assembly and reinstall 
them tightly with some red Loctite.

John.

[email-masked]

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From: John Miller <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:01:48 -0800

> If it starts to crack again I'll cut it and move it up four inches.

Just FYI relative to that: I use whip hoses on the air tools, I buy the 
long (30in I think) hoses and cut them in half, then put a barbed 
fitting and a couple Oetikers in the cut halves, works out considerably 
cheaper than buying finished hoses for some reason.

John.

[email-masked]

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From: PJ McGarvey <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 22:10:15 -0500

Tried the HF one and found it leaked as soon as I opened the box. Back it went
b/c who wants to deal with that bs.
There are some really nice, Made in USA, "pro" reels on Amazon, but couldn't
justify spending that much.  Went with a Griot's garage one and have been
happy the last year with it.  I had heard good things including how they stand
behind the products they sell.  I'm sure the reel is a design you could find
cheaper elsewhere...
With the recent cold snap it got down to 15F while in the garage a couple
nights ago, and the hose was stiff but not impossible to use.
What I did find interesting is that the quick release hose connections for my
impact gun and tire filler both leaked a little bit.  They never do that, but
I don't usually work in the garage with air tools in that kind of cold either.
Weird.
-PJ

[email-masked]

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From: old dirtbeard <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:26:06 -0800

Hey guys,

These work well if you don't mind hand cranking them.  They don't leak, made in the US and should last a lifetime.  Replacement parts are available:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#hose-reels/=vyfqvj

best,

doug

los angeles
________________
'72 BSA B50SS
'74 Moto Guzzi 850T

'01 HD XHL 883
'03 GMC Cargo Van
'07 Aprilia SXV 550
'13 Aprilia Tuono V4R
'13 Cadillac ATS

________________________________
 From: PJ McGarvey <[email-masked]>
To: Shop Talk <[email-masked]> 
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Air Hose Reel Rec

[email-masked]

[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 08:09:01 -0500 7.0.1|January 17, 2006) at 02/18/2015 08:08:55, Serialize complete at 02/18/2015 08:08:55

I have a total of 8 reels in my shop.  They are different styles and price 
points.

The manual winding ones are far preferred when the reel is someplace that 
you can reach.  The automatic type constantly 'stack' the hose on one side 
and then you need to pull it out a little way and rewind it.

I do have one of the economy manual winding reel on the McMaster Carr 
page.  I had to replace a washer on it and it was easy.  The one thing 
about it that I don't like, is that with the arms sticking out, if you are 
winding the hose out in anything but a straight line, the hose will catch 
on them.  I would definitely prefer a model with the disc sides instead of 
the four arms.

FWIW, I do have a few cheapies from HF.  They all work now (one needed 
tweaking when I got it.)  They are holding up pretty well.  As a testament 
to one of them, it's mounted on my lift upright.  I raised the lift when 
the body was over the arm as it went up.  I stopped it after it took some 
crushing.  But the unit still works even though the body is messed up.

I try to turn my air lines off when I leave the shop.  I do have minor 
leaks in the system, but it's nothing that can be heard, and I'm not sure 
it's at any of the reels (or just there.)

Eric P

old dirtbeard <[email-masked]> 
Sent by: "Shop-talk" <[email-masked]>
02/17/2015 10:08 PM
Please respond to
old dirtbeard <[email-masked]>

To
PJ McGarvey <[email-masked]>, Shop Talk 
<[email-masked]>
cc

Subject
Re: [Shop-talk] Air Hose Reel Rec

Hey guys,

These work well if you don't mind hand cranking them.  They don't leak, 
made in the US and should last a lifetime.  Replacement parts are 
available:

best,

[email-masked]

---

From: Scott <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 15:47:17 -0500

I agree with David that we *should* be able to make fittings that don't 
leak any more, but after I spent forever trying to have a leak free 
system, I gave up and just put ball valves everywhere too. My QD 
fittings also leak, and I'm sure other stuff does too. I've now gone 
almost to the opposite extreme and so long as the line hold pressure 
while I'm trying to use it, I'm happy. I've decided my air lines are 
like the SR-71's fuel tanks--they're *supposed* to leak somewhat.

Though I'm contemplating a new garage, and if that happens, the whole 
thing will be black iron and it'll so tight that it'll hold full 
pressure for months. I'll still use ball valves, but if I got to start 
from scratch, I'm going to have something that will make me cry (with 
happiness).

Scott

On 2/17/2015 9:48 PM, Dave Cavanaugh wrote:
> them with regular hose.  I also have a 3/4" ball valve on the wall 
> where the air line comes into the shop from the shed and I keep it 
> closed whenever I'm not in the shop.  My lines don't leak but 
> sometimes the QD fittings do.

[email-masked]

---

From: Brian Kennedy <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 16:29:05 -0500

I have a friend resto moding a '57 Ford in his first class restoration garage
nee dairy barn. Much to my surprise, he uses the white plastic pipe to run air
from his industrial sized compressor all over the place. He said it's been in
place for about 25 years and he's had only one leak. Next time I'm by, I'll
look at how he does retractable hoses if he does.
Brian K

On Feb 18, 2015, at 3:47 PM, Scott wrote:

> I agree with David that we *should* be able to make fittings that don't leak
any more, but after I spent forever trying to have a leak free system, I gave
up and just put ball valves everywhere too. My QD fittings also leak, and I'm
sure other stuff does too. I've now gone almost to the opposite extreme and so
long as the line hold pressure while I'm trying to use it, I'm happy. I've
decided my air lines are like the SR-71's fuel tanks--they're *supposed* to
leak somewhat.
>
> Though I'm contemplating a new garage, and if that happens, the whole thing
will be black iron and it'll so tight that it'll hold full pressure for
months. I'll still use ball valves, but if I got to start from scratch, I'm
going to have something that will make me cry (with happiness).
>> I have three of the Harbor Freight retractable reels in my shop. The reels
don't seem to leak, but on two of them the short hoses from my copper air
lines to the hose reel developed leaks and I just replaced them with regular
hose.  I also have a 3/4" ball valve on the wall where the air line comes into
the shop from the shed and I keep it closed whenever I'm not in the shop.  My
lines don't leak but sometimes the QD fittings do.
> _

[email-masked]

---

From: David Hillman <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 17:01:30 -0500 (EST)

> look at how he does retractable hoses if he does.

    You might want to tell him to rip that pipe out, while you are there. 
It is lethal when it blows, which it will do, eventually.  I'd wear a 
helmet when I visit, if I were you.

"Dear Mr. Cannova:

In response to your recent inquiry concerning our regulatory position on 
the use of plastic pipe for compressed air systems, I trust this letter 
will clear up any confusion over the issue.

It is our position that PVC pipe shall not be used as a means of 
transporting compressed air. This position follows the manufacturer's own 
statements that PVC is unsuitable for compressed air systems. We do allow 
the use of certain ABS materials that are specifically designed for 
compressed air systems. One such product is "Duraplus" air line piping 
system ABS pipe. However, as in any such system, the manufacturer's 
specifications on acceptable pressure and temperature considerations must 
be followed.

In closing, misapplication of a product, such as using PVC for compressed 
air systems, may result in citations and penalties being issued dependent 
upon the specific conditions."
- https://www.osha.gov/dts/hib/hib_data/hib19880520.html

[email-masked]

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From: Scott <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 17:06:35 -0500

I'm torn on this subject. On the one hand, yes, why would you ever use 
PVC when you could use anything else, and I've heard of PVC grenade-ing 
with awful results.

On the other, I've had a compressed air PVC line explode literally right 
above my head, and aside from the noise, it was no big deal.

I'd never recommend PVC lines, but I've spent a lot of time around them. 
The one time one blew, it didn't spray the room with lethal shards.

Scott

On 2/18/2015 5:01 PM, David Hillman wrote:
>    You might want to tell him to rip that pipe out, while you are 
> there. It is lethal when it blows, which it will do, eventually. I'd 
> wear a helmet when I visit, if I were you.
>
> "Dear Mr. Cannova:
>
> In response to your recent inquiry concerning our regulatory position 
> on the use of plastic pipe for compressed air systems, I trust this 
> letter will clear up any confusion over the issue.
>
> transporting compressed air. This position follows the manufacturer's 
> own statements that PVC is unsuitable for compressed air systems. We 
> do allow the use of certain ABS materials that are specifically 
> designed for compressed air systems. One such product is "Duraplus" 
> air line piping system ABS pipe. However, as in any such system, the 
> manufacturer's specifications on acceptable pressure and temperature 
> considerations must be followed.
>
> In closing, misapplication of a product, such as using PVC for 
> compressed air systems, may result in citations and penalties being 
> issued dependent upon the specific conditions."

[email-masked]

---

From: David Hillman <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 18:13:45 -0500 (EST)

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015, Scott wrote:
> I'd never recommend PVC lines, but I've spent a lot of time around them. The 
> one time one blew, it didn't spray the room with lethal shards.

    The last time I took a grinder to a piece of metal, a shard bounced 
harmlessly off my cheek.  Now I figure there's no reason to wear eye 
protection.

    It'd be one thing if it was just copper and steel pipe manufacturers 
telling everyone not to use PVC, since they'd have an obvious ulterior 
motive.  But every single maker of PVC pipe tells everyone not to use 
their product for compressed air ( in addition to OSHA and well, everybody 
else ).

<http://www.harvel.com/piping-systems/gf-harvel-pvc-industrial-pipe/schedule-40-80/temperature-derating>

    Just that chart alone should be enough to convince even the cheapest, 
most-safety-averse person that PVC for compressed air is stupid.  Average 
compressor outlet temperature is around double the rating for the pipe... 
and at half that temperature, the pipe strength is basically maxed out by 
a typical compressor ( 600 psi * .22 de-rate for 140* = 132 psi when brand 
new! ).

    If you consider a safety margin of zero acceptable, then I guess I have 
no further comment.

[email-masked]

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From: David Hillman <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 18:26:40 -0500 (EST)

I would apologize for hijacking the thread, but it was mine to begin 
with, so...

    I'm amazed everytime this subject comes up that some people still won't 
believe that compressed air in PVC is dangerous because it hasn't happened 
to them.  It takes no effort at all to find hundreds of stories like this 
one...

"Basil - I was working in a commercial radiator shop (in Sidney) and our 
PVC lines worked perfectly (for several years), right until they failed 
catastrophically.

The explosion that occurred was instant and complete, with an amazing 
amount of shrapnel flying around. It's not something I'd wish on anyone 
and for the sake of saving a few $$ or a bit of time on the install, PVC 
airlines just aren't worth the risk.

Not only will I never install PVC for airlines, I'll not even set foot in 
a shop that has them."

or this one...

"As to PVC: NO!!

My last (huge) shop came pre-plumbed with 1" PVC air lines. When the one 
branch let go, it shot a six-foot-long, javelin-pointed piece of pipe at 
me, which slammed into the bandsaw I was working with at the time, 
shattering the pipe.

PVC? No way."
- http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?104099-CVPC-or-PVC-Air-line

    Why insist on replicating mistakes that have already been made?  At 
least make NEW mistakes.

[email-masked]

---

From: Scott <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 18:31:38 -0500

On 2/18/2015 6:13 PM, David Hillman wrote:
>> I'd never recommend PVC lines, but I've spent a lot of time around 
>> them. The one time one blew, it didn't spray the room with lethal 
>> shards.
>

I think it's more like "you'll die a fiery death if you don't obey the 
speed limit". Yes, sometimes you will. But the vast overwhelming 
majority of the time, you're fine.

And I think that's the problem with that argument. Like I said, I'd 
never use PVC, because I don't want to be the 1 in 100,000,000 that gets 
my eye put out. But I also won't be running screaming from a shop if I 
see PVC air lines.

I won't hang out under them, but it's not on the same level as, say, a 
hungry Bengal tiger or angry king cobra.
_______________________________________________

[email-masked]

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From: Brian Kennedy <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 19:42:59 -0500

Sounds like my surprise was justified.
Brian K.

On Feb 18, 2015, at 6:26 PM, David Hillman wrote:

>   I would apologize for hijacking the thread, but it was mine to begin with,
so...
>   I'm amazed everytime this subject comes up that some people still won't
believe that compressed air in PVC is dangerous because it hasn't happened to
them.  It takes no effort at all to find hundreds of stories like this one...
>
> "Basil - I was working in a commercial radiator shop (in Sidney) and our PVC
lines worked perfectly (for several years), right until they failed
catastrophically.
>
> The explosion that occurred was instant and complete, with an amazing amount
of shrapnel flying around. It's not something I'd wish on anyone and for the
sake of saving a few $$ or a bit of time on the install, PVC airlines just
aren't worth the risk.
>
> Not only will I never install PVC for airlines, I'll not even set foot in a
shop that has them."
> My last (huge) shop came pre-plumbed with 1" PVC air lines. When the one
branch let go, it shot a six-foot-long, javelin-pointed piece of pipe at me,
which slammed into the bandsaw I was working with at the time, shattering the
pipe.
>   Why insist on replicating mistakes that have already been made?  At least
make NEW mistakes.

[email-masked]

---

From: Michael Porter <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 17:56:23 -0700

On 2/18/2015 4:31 PM, Scott wrote:
>>    The last time I took a grinder to a piece of metal, a shard 
>> bounced harmlessly off my cheek.  Now I figure there's no reason to 
>> wear eye protection.
>
> never use PVC, because I don't want to be the 1 in 100,000,000 that 
> gets my eye put out. But I also won't be running screaming from a shop 
> if I see PVC air lines.
>

All that said, bad practices predict bad outcomes.  No, most of the 
time, one won't end up dying a fiery death exceeding the speed limit, 
but the odds of doing so go up dramatically if one's tires are bald, 
brakes are shot and the accelerator linkage is cobbled together with 
coathangers and twine--especially if one exhibits a lack of awareness of 
the potential for disaster such compromises inevitably entail.

Cheers.

-- 

Michael Porter
Roswell, NM

Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance....
_______________________________________________

[email-masked]

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From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 23:04:15 -0600

>    Any recommendations to buy, or ones to avoid?  Thanks.

I won't comment on the reel, or pvc pipe, as others seem to have that
covered.  But I will comment about the hose.  Get good quality rubber,
not plastic, hose.  Goodyear sells some good stuff, that's readily
available and not terribly expensive.  (50' of 3/8 hose for ~$30) It
works well down below zero.

-- 
David Scheidt
[email-masked]

[email-masked]

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From: John Miller <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 09:38:54 -0800

> works well down below zero.

Yeah, good rubber hose.

Good luck getting a plastic hose to coil back onto a reel in anything 
less than 75deg F temps.

John.

[email-masked]