From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Nov 1 14:29:15 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7141B2580B32 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 14:29:15 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from BLU004-OMC2S25.hotmail.com (blu004-omc2s25.hotmail.com [65.55.111.100]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADDAF2580405 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 14:19:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from BLU180-W11 ([65.55.111.71]) by BLU004-OMC2S25.hotmail.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.22751); Sat, 1 Nov 2014 13:23:03 -0700 From: "Tim ." To: Shop Talk Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2014 15:23:02 -0500 FILETIME=[A377AD40:01CFF611] Subject: [Shop-talk] dryer squeak Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Hi all I have a Frigidaire electric dryer that is nine years old. And it squeaks like bastard now. I opened it up and do not see any wear marks anywhere that would show a rub. I replaced the belt and it didn't solve it. Thankfully belts are cheap. I am far from an appliance repair man and have no clue what else to check. I can't see how to access the spot where the drum is mounted to the back panel but what are the chances that this is the spot that is squeaking? Or can the motor squeak? Thanks tim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Nov 1 14:43:35 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A77B8258449F for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 14:43:35 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qa0-f50.google.com (mail-qa0-f50.google.com [209.85.216.50]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71ED9258081A for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 14:38:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-qa0-f50.google.com with SMTP id bm13so5085012qab.9 for ; Sat, 01 Nov 2014 13:41:51 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=pPBPTq5R9LdnzvpO/9ugreLnAgZfJC4cqgOfvZ/iZC0=; b=FScdDF0/L5pn9uEGUrHuAMBnIZVFfKqlHQnz1m5RTEQhZEHbgfyF/A5B6og6mIAb2+ moMMzym6cK+xRl+s2vzX5kr62YQ1Qk6782yJ+zCSs6aTAH8//isY734aCHiQx3qcwA8k 5OLYMmCiyaq3WYAG0yqnm+zXo57XdqRgGIkRyo/B/b3x5wXxaui39gKJ1OJnICTKcc0C TV4pTiGbWyKYr2HgzZW9xMVeFQYiQvuv6yKz+sZyJa9A5+aHjON7rbtWuxdKVIJuHdV2 FCmt1Ftk2O2iEiaqdLQWOVMxwF1PCNQhme0sGeqZy53rqvZu9p5Zk9UYYbL6Q8oRvaKi dB5g== 44mr46394092qgj.22.1414874511813; Sat, 01 Nov 2014 13:41:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.140.101.233 with HTTP; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 13:41:51 -0700 (PDT) References: Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2014 16:41:51 -0400 From: Paul Parkanzky To: "Tim ." Cc: Shop Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] dryer squeak Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tim, We went through this on the Frigidaire dryer in the home we just sold. What you need to do is open the top of the dryer and take the front panel off. There are two latches to get the top to hinge up in the front of that seam. I pushed on them with a putty knife. The front panel comes off if you disconnect the door switch and remove a couple screws. Now, unhook the belt (from the back access door) and lift up sharply on the rear of the drum. There is a ball on the back of the drum that rides in a groove. You're popping that out of the top. Then you can pull the drum forward and through the opening at the front to remove it. I applied some high-temp grease to the saddle that ball rides in (or to the ball, I don't remember which) and the squeaking went away. That dryer was made in 1995 and had never given us any problems, so I was willing to throw a couple thermostats and some grease at it to try to get her to the 20 year mark. You can find Youtube videos if you google something like, "Frigidaire Dryer Drum Removal." You'll see that it's actually pretty easy. I learned to disassemble the dryer and get the drum out in about three minutes after a couple of times through. Good Luck, -Paul On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 4:23 PM, Tim . wrote: > Hi all > > I have a Frigidaire electric dryer that is nine years old. And it squeaks > like > bastard now. I opened it up and do not see any wear marks anywhere that > would > show a rub. I replaced the belt and it didn't solve it. Thankfully belts > are > cheap. > > I am far from an appliance repair man and have no clue what else to check. > I > can't see how to access the spot where the drum is mounted to the back > panel > but what are the chances that this is the spot that is squeaking? Or can > the > motor squeak? > > Thanks > tim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Nov 1 14:45:15 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93579258452A for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 14:45:15 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from BLU004-OMC2S20.hotmail.com (blu004-omc2s20.hotmail.com [65.55.111.95]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DF2C258081A for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 14:45:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from BLU180-W47 ([65.55.111.72]) by BLU004-OMC2S20.hotmail.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.22751); Sat, 1 Nov 2014 13:48:35 -0700 From: "Tim ." To: Shop Talk Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2014 15:48:34 -0500 References: , FILETIME=[34739590:01CFF615] Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] dryer squeak Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thanks Paul! That does sound easy and once again I forgot about facetube for how to videos. But this one sounds like I won't have to watch it done I'll just do it. Thanks again!!!!! Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2014 16:41:51 -0400 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] dryer squeak From: parkanzky@gmail.com To: tims_datsun_stuff@outlook.com CC: shop-talk@autox.team.net Tim, We went through this on the Frigidaire dryer in the home we just sold. What you need to do is open the top of the dryer and take the front panel off. There are two latches to get the top to hinge up in the front of that seam. I pushed on them with a putty knife. The front panel comes off if you disconnect the door switch and remove a couple screws. Now, unhook the belt (from the back access door) and lift up sharply on the rear of the drum. There is a ball on the back of the drum that rides in a groove. You're popping that out of the top. Then you can pull the drum forward and through the opening at the front to remove it. I applied some high-temp grease to the saddle that ball rides in (or to the ball, I don't remember which) and the squeaking went away. That dryer was made in 1995 and had never given us any problems, so I was willing to throw a couple thermostats and some grease at it to try to get her to the 20 year mark. You can find Youtube videos if you google something like, "Frigidaire Dryer Drum Removal." You'll see that it's actually pretty easy. I learned to disassemble the dryer and get the drum out in about three minutes after a couple of times through. Good Luck, -Paul On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 4:23 PM, Tim . wrote: Hi all I have a Frigidaire electric dryer that is nine years old. And it squeaks like bastard now. I opened it up and do not see any wear marks anywhere that would show a rub. I replaced the belt and it didn't solve it. Thankfully belts are cheap. I am far from an appliance repair man and have no clue what else to check. I can't see how to access the spot where the drum is mounted to the back panel but what are the chances that this is the spot that is squeaking? Or can the motor squeak? Thanks tim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Nov 1 14:59:24 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0E8D2584597 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 14:59:24 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from BLU004-OMC2S37.hotmail.com (blu004-omc2s37.hotmail.com [65.55.111.112]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DADD2580830 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 14:49:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from BLU180-W28 ([65.55.111.71]) by BLU004-OMC2S37.hotmail.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.22751); Sat, 1 Nov 2014 13:52:46 -0700 From: "Tim ." To: Shop Talk Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2014 15:52:45 -0500 FILETIME=[CA0B2D70:01CFF615] Subject: [Shop-talk] hard fuel line replacement Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Hi all One of the fuel lines on my rusty crusty old S10 has rusted to the point that it weeps/leaks when the engine is running. Since this truck has well over 210K miles on it and it soon to be retired to part hauler status, I'd like to not spend any money on this fix. Can I get away with just cutting out a foot or so of hard line and replacing it with rubber fuel line? Or will the rubber line not handle the pressure? Thanks! tim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Nov 1 15:15:14 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9432D25845BF for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 15:15:14 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cdptpa-oedge-vip.email.rr.com (cdptpa-outbound-snat.email.rr.com [107.14.166.231]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2104925803FC for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 15:13:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [98.148.60.115] ([98.148.60.115:55013] helo=rypc) by cdptpa-oedge03 (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.5.0.35861 r(Momo-dev:tip)) with ESMTP id 7A/57-26572-DCD45545; Sat, 01 Nov 2014 21:17:01 +0000 From: "Randall" To: "'Tim .'" , "'Shop Talk'" Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2014 14:17:01 -0700 Thread-Index: Ac/2FzWKeauqzr/6T4OB26G3xUaoRwAAb0VA Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] hard fuel line replacement Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > Can I get away with just cutting > out a foot or so > of hard line and replacing it with rubber fuel line? Should work; get the high pressure "fuel injection" hose and use good quality clamps. Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Nov 1 15:28:50 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76E24258447F for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 15:28:50 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from p3plsmtpa09-03.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (p3plsmtpa09-03.prod.phx3.secureserver.net [173.201.193.232]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65BA125803FC for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 15:20:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PatsOffice ([38.103.208.34]) by p3plsmtpa09-03.prod.phx3.secureserver.net with id AMPa1p00t0l45Le01MPbBS; Sat, 01 Nov 2014 14:23:35 -0700 From: "Pat Horne" To: "'Tim .'" , "'Shop Talk'" References: Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2014 16:23:22 -0500 Thread-Index: Ac/2FzwZlTeLdav9SZmrQP+05mZNCAAAqrRw Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] hard fuel line replacement Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tim, If the truck has fuel injection it would not be a good idea to patch it. If carburetor, a rubber hose would be fine. Peace, Pat -----Original Message----- From: Shop-talk [mailto:shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Tim . Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2014 3:53 PM To: Shop Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] hard fuel line replacement Hi all One of the fuel lines on my rusty crusty old S10 has rusted to the point that it weeps/leaks when the engine is running. Since this truck has well over 210K miles on it and it soon to be retired to part hauler status, I'd like to not spend any money on this fix. Can I get away with just cutting out a foot or so of hard line and replacing it with rubber fuel line? Or will the rubber line not handle the pressure? Thanks! tim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat@hornesystemstx.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Nov 1 16:45:27 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D0622584591 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 16:45:27 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-yh0-f51.google.com (mail-yh0-f51.google.com [209.85.213.51]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCACE25805E8 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 16:45:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-yh0-f51.google.com with SMTP id z6so365353yhz.10 for ; Sat, 01 Nov 2014 15:48:41 -0700 (PDT) d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=aqn6g0DETeUrqoYAcl5pcp0bH5DXQxOm//4yzF6pt7U=; b=f+yKwHPckK+DfVd+2AMQ02sabl5zSFU+s2P5GbGEzOVba27OQpvt3ZNweO94jxhU4S 8OAg+sA3TxXysOkAt2CUgHvb5Fxrbxi/FKHFt0QBzhiETQGlRSnzkDQ9ewHWt75v11BI oSdgiw3e7+aEj8cTqrcLNYTm8PnKD/XmX0Ey+Yd7KnIZbcjGFx/MfNXUbj3qiD8fVMB1 /FiYl5PiMzCq/zPx9zrKCHSVf/A/TJWMhyyTNLzKClDNxvvg8q8BI5uyXsTb5Ogzi01t m0kKB/lyn1HK9VvIVePL6OjscmjeT0l69PTzElmkGyY8ZkA3t74CT6YRix2/++k28QzV qZ4Q== d135mr21530606ykc.44.1414882121504; Sat, 01 Nov 2014 15:48:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.170.44.18 with HTTP; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 15:48:41 -0700 (PDT) References: Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2014 18:48:41 -0400 From: Doug Braun To: "Tim ." Cc: Shop Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] dryer squeak Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Is there an idler wheel for the belt? That could also be squeaking. Doug > I have a Frigidaire electric dryer that is nine years old. And it squeaks > like > > bastard now. I opened it up and do not see any wear marks anywhere that > would > > show a rub. I replaced the belt and it didn't solve it. Thankfully belts > are > > cheap. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Nov 1 19:59:26 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A48A258453F for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 19:59:26 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from BLU004-OMC2S22.hotmail.com (blu004-omc2s22.hotmail.com [65.55.111.97]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3882C258053B for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 19:55:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from BLU180-W12 ([65.55.111.72]) by BLU004-OMC2S22.hotmail.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.22751); Sat, 1 Nov 2014 18:58:51 -0700 From: "Tim ." To: Shop Talk Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2014 20:58:51 -0500 References: , FILETIME=[8CC58B10:01CFF640] Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] hard fuel line replacement Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net It's a 96. So is fuel injection hose stronger than regular fuel line hose? Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2014 16:27:35 -0500 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] hard fuel line replacement From: jdinnis@gmail.com To: tims_datsun_stuff@outlook.com What year is your s10? On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 3:52 PM, Tim . wrote: Hi all One of the fuel lines on my rusty crusty old S10 has rusted to the point that it weeps/leaks when the engine is running. Since this truck has well over 210K miles on it and it soon to be retired to part hauler status, I'd like to not spend any money on this fix. Can I get away with just cutting out a foot or so of hard line and replacing it with rubber fuel line? Or will the rubber line not handle the pressure? Thanks! tim _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Nov 1 20:29:35 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB98C25845E0 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 20:29:35 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qc0-f179.google.com (mail-qc0-f179.google.com [209.85.216.179]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A24C258053B for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 20:27:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-qc0-f179.google.com with SMTP id o8so7509408qcw.24 for ; Sat, 01 Nov 2014 19:31:23 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=KYCIMR3j3lG+Aos9w6tEqFkkXH0hRJEL+GzB/h+kEN8=; b=X7EXxuA0Y8bRgGLd1E1TpZd5Pf36EwvscjiDbLewibYeXTPGDwd0EHnalc7e/5cTQq nPmfoFC571gWshT/wb5ZoRy4h+fkwlbAtzkid14La/QycxM/JV98BnIkii499Fad1/hS urCfz6h5uvDf2tyL1HEG/hempUWcLD/Z8486IbocNhhA/TzS1KJnDUAKnpykzSiqgZrQ PU5J0BTRJBaeqvBUu7ZXs46Kjp8FAY6QqJbeDBi9OeIUHvyWZBIpEP5c19mtSrYeoWRl UX3b9RfumN/tcnoK2Gk7kndQszquTXzx2ywu5jz8d6LUCl+v5p8ZuTtyL5F7WChWn1RE 8bpw== b6mr17905594qge.25.1414895483198; Sat, 01 Nov 2014 19:31:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.96.126.129 with HTTP; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 19:31:23 -0700 (PDT) References: Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2014 21:31:23 -0500 From: John Innis To: "Tim ." Cc: Shop Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] hard fuel line replacement Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fuel Pressure on these is over 40 PSI. I would NOT use rubber hose and clamps for this. It was ok on the older TBI motors that ran 15-20 PSI, but dead head pressure on your pump is over 60, and even fuel injection hose won't hold up to that just clamped on. If you are going to cut out a section, flare the ends and splice in a new section of hard line. On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 8:58 PM, Tim . wrote: > It's a 96. > > So is fuel injection hose stronger than regular fuel line hose? > > Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2014 16:27:35 -0500 > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] hard fuel line replacement > From: jdinnis@gmail.com > To: tims_datsun_stuff@outlook.com > > What year is your s10? > > On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 3:52 PM, Tim . > wrote: > Hi all > > > One of the fuel lines on my rusty crusty old S10 has rusted to the point > that > > it weeps/leaks when the engine is running. Since this truck has well over > 210K > > miles on it and it soon to be retired to part hauler status, I'd like to > not > > spend any money on this fix. Can I get away with just cutting out a foot or > so > > of hard line and replacing it with rubber fuel line? Or will the rubber > line > > not handle the pressure? > > > Thanks! > > tim > > _______________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis@gmail.com > > -- ================================= = Never offend people with style when you = = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = ================================= _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Nov 1 21:45:57 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 562252584A59 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 21:45:57 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail.milleredp.com (fw.milleredp.com [198.144.208.110]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D424E25849D9 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 21:34:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [10.1.2.100] ([::ffff:10.1.2.100]) (AUTH: PLAIN jem, TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,128bits,AES128-SHA) by mail.milleredp.com with ESMTPSA; Sat, 01 Nov 2014 20:37:32 -0700 id 000000000028001C.000000005455A6FC.000059C2 Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2014 20:37:32 -0700 From: John Miller User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.2.0 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] hard fuel line replacement Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On 11/1/2014 7:31 PM, John Innis wrote: > Fuel Pressure on these is over 40 PSI. I would NOT use rubber hose and > clamps for this. There is hose and clamps intended specifically for high-pressure fuel injection applications, SAE 30R9 spec. It's quite pricey compared to the old low-pressure stuff. The hard line really needs to be barbed a bit at the end to do this properly, the beginning of a bubble-flare works nicely. John. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Nov 1 21:47:33 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C237F2584A94 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 21:47:33 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cdptpa-oedge-vip.email.rr.com (cdptpa-outbound-snat.email.rr.com [107.14.166.231]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3083F25849D9 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 21:47:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [98.148.60.115] ([98.148.60.115:55000] helo=rypc) by cdptpa-oedge02 (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.5.0.35861 r(Momo-dev:tip)) with ESMTP id 5F/BB-09569-D1AA5545; Sun, 02 Nov 2014 03:50:53 +0000 From: "Randall" To: "'Shop Talk'" Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2014 20:50:53 -0700 Thread-Index: Ac/2QSAqk2V6VIJPRwGfsky7m+wcmQADiG3A Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] hard fuel line replacement Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > So is fuel injection hose stronger than regular fuel line hose? Yes, although you increasingly find the injection hose sold as regular fuel line. Eg, http://tinyurl.com/p3387sg Here's some on eBay http://tinyurl.com/omxrd9r (obviously, get the size that fits, that's just an example) Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Nov 1 22:31:07 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6AD62584A84 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 22:31:07 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from bradakis.com (50-198-190-18-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.198.190.18]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81B042580978 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 22:22:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bradakis.com (50-198-190-18-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.198.190.18]) by bradakis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7DB12C02E0 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 22:25:33 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2014 22:25:32 -0600 From: Mark J Bradakis User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:29.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/29.0 SeaMonkey/2.26.1 To: Shop Talk References: Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] dryer squeak Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This will be of no help to you whatsoever, but that's not going to stop me. Some time ago I was helping a friend of mine get caught up with his HVAC business as a general grunt. The new construction jobs were nice, the remodeling jobs were pretty dirty. Anyway, I threw some of my work clothes into the washer, then the dryer. Started the dryer and about a minute later there was a TERRIBLE screeching sound. Turns out that a long, self tapping sheet metal screw didn't go into the pouch on the tool belt but into a pocket of my jeans. Made it through the washer, but fell out in the dryer and got stuck on the edge of the drum. Luckily it didn't take too much disassembly of the trusty old Maytag to fix. mjb. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Nov 2 06:50:15 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02B052584B46 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 06:50:15 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from BLU004-OMC2S30.hotmail.com (blu004-omc2s30.hotmail.com [65.55.111.105]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A85B25805FB for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 06:48:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from BLU180-W18 ([65.55.111.72]) by BLU004-OMC2S30.hotmail.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.22751); Sun, 2 Nov 2014 05:51:31 -0800 From: "Tim ." To: Shop Talk Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2014 07:51:31 -0600 References: , <5455B23C.1000408@bradakis.com> FILETIME=[1B683F80:01CFF6A4] Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] dryer squeak Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I had something similar happen to my washer: A piece of metal got into the pump housing and cracked it causing a nice water spill that eventually ended up in the basement. The piece of wire turned out to be an underwire from one of the bosses' bras....... And of course, this was in the shiny new front loader that is much more complicated to work on that the simple old electric dryer so I had to pay someone to fix the washer. sigh Thanks for the input on the squeak everyone! tim > Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2014 22:25:32 -0600 > From: mark@bradakis.com > To: shop-talk@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] dryer squeak > > This will be of no help to you whatsoever, but that's not going to stop me. > > Some time ago I was helping a friend of mine get caught up with his HVAC business > as a general grunt. The new construction jobs were nice, the remodeling jobs were > pretty dirty. > > Anyway, I threw some of my work clothes into the washer, then the dryer. Started > the dryer and about a minute later there was a TERRIBLE screeching sound. Turns out > that a long, self tapping sheet metal screw didn't go into the pouch on the tool belt > but into a pocket of my jeans. Made it through the washer, but fell out in the dryer > and got stuck on the edge of the drum. Luckily it didn't take too much disassembly > of the trusty old Maytag to fix. > > mjb. > _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Nov 2 08:19:51 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 234EE25849D6 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 08:19:51 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-la0-f44.google.com (mail-la0-f44.google.com [209.85.215.44]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 254FD2580934 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 08:07:11 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-la0-f44.google.com with SMTP id gf13so8386084lab.17 for ; Sun, 02 Nov 2014 07:10:36 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=u7O0AzVXY9TaWjCsfUiOIKH6vnxL91MRv3Defcf6Faw=; b=Ai7KrD60IcqkQX4H766H13r9dSj5/rrFPNVDL3mU2vMIlLnEyELXIrTp6Qi9Q5+Ar3 97hkkutmeBDNDYrFHf7vjzNDee8oDE4bbUTRKEWFn6H7MA9xexfe+7nDFve70vJVxEbB W/Ui9/3aOuwPK5qgKDVV7FyGVxRrfdASWUwXr4uHXHgTmhz3h2JCCkQPGRCrFSnS29p4 0M7Oi4/WI+ppIKBZ/WYj2E+EdIrzoboAJ4rM351lcLpTgKxRca7foegoWeCJKmSs6HgD 1n/iEW5nUDTV6SlKFxQNDFkaCLGloDRDAEFjnHmr8P4pt+rgTGDdnz8jHoT+8hygIisP scJA== ll4mr44128388lac.64.1414941036174; Sun, 02 Nov 2014 07:10:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.112.49.18 with HTTP; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 07:10:36 -0800 (PST) References: Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2014 10:10:36 -0500 From: Jeff Scarbrough To: "Tim ." Cc: Shop Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] dryer squeak Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 4:23 PM, Tim . wrote: > I am far from an appliance repair man and have no clue what else to check. > I > can't see how to access the spot where the drum is mounted to the back > panel > but what are the chances that this is the spot that is squeaking? Or can > the > motor squeak? > Sounds like you're already on your way, but when my old Maytag took up squeaking, it was a cylindrical plastic bushing that carried the axle of the drum in the rear support. Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Nov 2 09:50:22 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EE0C2584CDE for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 09:50:22 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-po-08v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-po-08v.sys.comcast.net [96.114.154.167]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DFEE2580697 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 09:37:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from resomta-po-19v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.243]) by resqmta-po-08v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id Aggi1p0075FMDhs01ggicy; Sun, 02 Nov 2014 16:40:42 +0000 Received: from BigBlack ([73.169.171.11]) by resomta-po-19v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id Aggi1p0040F6Uip01ggipt; Sun, 02 Nov 2014 16:40:42 +0000 From: "Bob Kegel" To: "Shop Talk" References: , <5455B23C.1000408@bradakis.com> Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2014 08:40:41 -0800 s=q20140121; t=1414946442; bh=Chdqvj1drk5HW36JwEZD0pQbioiOgYPVbHv/lUIRC3o=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Reply-To:From:To:Subject:Date: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=ekZwP6yk0EneAz5tgi33Eytah86WMyBe7ghZ/vH4gbAN+j4isqbZ+PKR0Q+JlIgan cXld6/uyI/jqSp/VNd3BHbjIBy2Qt6lkb213vGmkRLRaVwR778lUabnD+lzGu2zS+0 xoXRjAEyeILsikw6dEu8qiPcJSreG8iNeuILC2Re44gdQugWhOgojACUBFYCulGvXY /LWBG/21DxHMZmkcQeiOojIVqhASu6boN0RQfE/VBXNf58XefFjW/e08jWGNGuImnE mZy6tTZCzKLhPxh//UAIg/E7SqgYRNBMGUZBrq4NDHa/U0OW3KV9Nf6WtltW78sztN d937pa+G4puKA== Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] dryer squeak Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > a long, self tapping sheet metal screw For years we endured a clickety-clack in our dryer that turned out to be a quarter inside one of the fins in the drum. Fortunately, the fins were attached with screws and the fix was simple, once I tracked it down. Bob K _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Nov 2 16:37:32 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B84E25845E4 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 16:37:32 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from BLU004-OMC2S1.hotmail.com (blu004-omc2s1.hotmail.com [65.55.111.76]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07AE22580963 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 16:25:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from BLU180-W84 ([65.55.111.73]) by BLU004-OMC2S1.hotmail.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.22751); Sun, 2 Nov 2014 15:29:14 -0800 From: "Tim ." To: Shop Talk Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2014 17:29:14 -0600 FILETIME=[D065CF60:01CFF6F4] Subject: [Shop-talk] Thank you guys Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net My heart felt thanks to everyone who replied to my dryer and fuel line issues this week. Because of the help I received I saved nice chunk of money not paying someone else to do all this. it more than justifies the $50 donation I made back in August. Once I knew how to get the drum out it became easy. (I had been trying to lift it out but didn't realize it needed to be popped out.) I greased the ball and it is quiet for now. I still need to replace the bearing but at least now I know what is involved. I went ahead and replaced the bad section of fuel line with a high pressure injector line. It seems to be holding. And it really only has to last for a week or so but I do hope for longer. Thanks again!! tim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Nov 2 19:23:30 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 036902580A2D for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 19:23:30 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-wi0-f170.google.com (mail-wi0-f170.google.com [209.85.212.170]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAE6325806FB for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 19:17:52 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-wi0-f170.google.com with SMTP id q5so4992276wiv.3 for ; Sun, 02 Nov 2014 18:21:17 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=CdB+p0pohBkRr7uGem6OPBI752UgGu69aFwPhrO+JzY=; b=rHtRhiA8WvY3vkvsfO9gu6vl5aWddmQlsQ6yfsP6nDDv/CX2LJoKsgyKk2+He7icWJ r9nafYFY6sJdTm8eXZxs2vph6dM/F7DK+Y++JMukkz7rZJx2fws97UDmgeA3xajz5aYD hRTi0tirnL2967NCmlTUYm79g4ANox1PEoXPL9fjtYyCnpQ8a9qeib1FfCWykFcVl3jT GT/5cktqxn+RQacKfUrzI8/syGxcz4aYmEJ/QeHNEG1i5yh6yd8hpkXKlNY+rx1OEzda i8ao2236BW9Kvarc5YyTmC34sNXO13t1fD0b1o+ML7pjrk4xsWQmAn72XBArfIU6uZoy seaw== fq13mr32110350wjc.14.1414981277831; Sun, 02 Nov 2014 18:21:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.195.13.34 with HTTP; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 18:21:17 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2014 21:21:17 -0500 From: Joe Szwed To: Shop-Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] dryer squeak Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I had the similar problem with my current dryer. First I lubed all the rollers and bearings but it still squeaked, next I lubed the pivot point for the belt idler. That fixed it for us. Joe _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Nov 5 11:15:32 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BCDF258447A for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 11:15:32 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-oi0-f53.google.com (mail-oi0-f53.google.com [209.85.218.53]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2FD72584496 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 10:47:18 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-oi0-f53.google.com with SMTP id a141so10535560oig.26 for ; Wed, 05 Nov 2014 09:50:45 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=3nx650vsqkfw0h/UFo4kmuq3rNVIdiismSKkrnWIQtY=; b=UxYvWbtMtN4k0oVfsKMAe8siMqly3hNz1oaHwBRi/k9KcAuoePXAUZBHGnb+kBo/5e UaFsBBB1LzcrIE1LjZSMloNyybml6Q8sYFVNm53aEfACVR9hGUaA8rfY0SYgf1iallAU Soh645r1soBSL8ij0/LsGp02kRy5FnuFVh4aEd2e90vo1mwsEbMnYPID/8eDEJDytpP2 skYUX4XsPXYPSvTxpWWA5tw/X1TIMsoznggYSeCiCxFmKPGMYTFwjoq7sI9n5wFeKI8E bKvWpHmHczKyo9hKFsgLQIB1qchE6H7TcrhevAvkPIbBhosUmkk+ZoT2fmM+GGg5vi2n EVfA== v190mr11863050oif.2.1415209845789; Wed, 05 Nov 2014 09:50:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.202.226.18 with HTTP; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 09:50:45 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 12:50:45 -0500 From: Larry Spector To: shop-talk Subject: [Shop-talk] Seasonal water hammer? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I've got an odd problem, and it's been going on for a couple of years now. Every fall, when the cold water supply (county water) starts getting even colder, I get water hammer. I can usually get it to go away by turning off the tap and turning it back on slowly, but it's a pain to deal with. Any idea what may be causing it and what can be done to alleviate it? Thanks, Larry _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Nov 5 11:45:03 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74BF625844CF for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 11:45:03 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mailrelay.embarq.synacor.com (smtp-fo.agate.dfw.synacor.com [205.219.233.7]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8E1525807F5 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 11:29:54 -0700 (MST) X_CMAE_Category: , , a=S2wpYzp2RsyRkoRNwqcm1Q==:17 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=xwPayol1AAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=zOoktvdPAAAA:8 a=7L0Q7Ao1G6Juj6iJRy0A:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=S2wpYzp2RsyRkoRNwqcm1Q==:117 Authentication-Results: smtp02.agate.dfw.synacor.com smtp.user=ejrussell@mebtel.net; auth=pass (LOGIN) Received: from [99.194.27.8] ([99.194.27.8:61448] helo=EricJRussellPC) by smtp.centurylink.net (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.5.1.37854 r(Momo-dev:3.5.1.0)) with ESMTPA id BB/CE-15993-07D6A545; Wed, 05 Nov 2014 13:33:20 -0500 From: "Eric J Russell" To: "Larry Spector" , "shop-talk" References: Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 13:33:15 -0500 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Seasonal water hammer? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Is there a water hammer preventer in the system? (I don't know if that is the real name - usually a capped off section of vertical pipe, the intention is for that vertical piece to be filled with air and act as damper for sudden changes in water pressure.) If so, the cold weather would likely reduce the volume of air in the water hammer preventer, lessening the dampening effect. Draining the water pipes might let it get refilled with air and return the preventer to full effect. Or a larger vertical pipe (longer or larger diameter) might fix it. Eric Russell Mebane, NC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Spector" To: "shop-talk" Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2014 12:50 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] Seasonal water hammer? > I've got an odd problem, and it's been going on for a couple of years now. > Every fall, when the cold water supply (county water) starts getting even > colder, I get water hammer. I can usually get it to go away by turning off > the tap and turning it back on slowly, but it's a pain to deal with. > > Any idea what may be causing it and what can be done to alleviate it? > > Thanks, > Larry _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Nov 5 13:02:08 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 172492584494 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 13:02:08 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ob0-f178.google.com (mail-ob0-f178.google.com [209.85.214.178]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DF392580B24 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 12:42:59 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-ob0-f178.google.com with SMTP id vb8so1147973obc.37 for ; Wed, 05 Nov 2014 11:46:26 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=o1X3n7T3MxYZ71baW1jtfVVEIRnO9a68e6D5I3EVgW4=; b=XLgc7i+v5oFMP++kTkEtTCy60sTBXHSLFnTXxift4N8qeWtqlQgdxcwrEJJKdhWtcG tjik6Z1xgTJbFBCo29qmjE6jMZzEdZk+jGLcD4YQttP7U79/Zaw1y/U5h0mKpYXeLsp8 grlBCdcKSfpjlLDX+xfZV99KwgliWj6qMsxHp0XucpwnvTm1s8SxR23N18B3gCtzR0H+ 8NpNoFtjjSNH7F6sVyRSN6aDuusBzaI48pcHWTM+/Ki1QVPpkoOafL7o9x2wkJlRPAFi 6pAC3kvJiRGS6+4TS6xLG6931WVKjHk2SjTQ7qyBPfOZvXc79qziu1iGzR5Q+OxwXMZh /EBg== z132mr3168467oig.99.1415216786420; Wed, 05 Nov 2014 11:46:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.202.226.18 with HTTP; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 11:46:26 -0800 (PST) References: Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:46:26 -0500 From: Larry Spector To: shop-talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Seasonal water hammer? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thanks for the feedback. There are small "preventers" on the back of my clothes washer, but there's not much volume there. I've tried draining the whole house a couple of times, to try and empty out any water that may have collected. That tends to work for a week or so, but it doesn't last. I was thinking of adding an expansion tank near the water inlet, something like this: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Watts-8-5-in-W-x-11-5-in-D-x-8-5-in-H-Pre-Pressurized-Steel-Water-Expansion-Tank-DET-5/100677607 I believe that it might be easier to do this, than to add vertical pipes in the space I have access to. -Larry On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 1:33 PM, Eric J Russell wrote: > Is there a water hammer preventer in the system? (I don't know if that is > the real name - usually a capped off section of vertical pipe, the > intention is for that vertical piece to be filled with air and act as > damper for sudden changes in water pressure.) > > If so, the cold weather would likely reduce the volume of air in the water > hammer preventer, lessening the dampening effect. Draining the water pipes > might let it get refilled with air and return the preventer to full effect. > Or a larger vertical pipe (longer or larger diameter) might fix it. > > Eric Russell > Mebane, NC > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Spector" > To: "shop-talk" > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2014 12:50 PM > Subject: [Shop-talk] Seasonal water hammer? > > > > I've got an odd problem, and it's been going on for a couple of years now. >> Every fall, when the cold water supply (county water) starts getting even >> colder, I get water hammer. I can usually get it to go away by turning off >> the tap and turning it back on slowly, but it's a pain to deal with. >> >> Any idea what may be causing it and what can be done to alleviate it? >> >> Thanks, >> Larry _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Nov 5 14:18:04 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9B6325844BF for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:18:04 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm24-vm6.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (nm24-vm6.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [216.39.63.172]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A323D258074B for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 13:48:45 -0700 (MST) s=s1024; t=1415220732; bh=uVerOlYrdA8VqPkUXBf0n/dJs2CMGd+avUTwY1mu224=; h=From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=3B3r7cinWY8LcwERFY/J6BtGMxwD4E7e5Xs+aIbv0dshOTLJ0/A8r02WVdWUVg2mviEt3ICCTkHNletFh3cyEi+yBcdbN1kdaA/saMu2+Q7UNx27fUQ8L25MbjpCwoMcAwoqUTjGpZtYYKwM6DnSGSWVR7p6jY5hIxyq+fN9sFA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=ameritech.net; b=0Dz/fv98k/gaGjSAcRx/vVzAWZnBRT2i9fcZDRFxpt82hYDOxlxirplhJBFU5iGIDnQBW0JH+kiDL7MHO6tjP1crI/FGWoqt4jsWYquhv2i/N3LYJh/3nJGhn26b1BQ7nHSeXiKj0rVxokTU4uto+JGZfna9E13yU/fRSdm7pAY=; Received: from [216.39.60.168] by nm24.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Nov 2014 20:52:12 -0000 Received: from [98.138.104.99] by tm4.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Nov 2014 20:52:12 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp119.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Nov 2014 20:52:12 -0000 .sLURNIzEJLbtn7xkneyFZIADrwof_jehDCs6Y57WKrE._fIkl8RYEC2NVO3 u8MYbtWYzMEwquJ82h8XGV1DnX7FooyCmU3TMl1YXhJUKJucvB6ozxhYBGnQ pdQiveneoxDyot1MQ5psurjQMwB_E7KRm.UI2VaYcVxVtptPyeEBlBMgxoLe ykQc1kAXdvawcEPmEnwSl3hirpDmLXjMtdOZ8JC.KTOWfLB1aAcSaQdyzmmu pAepKf_dm3cZ71Hqev1v_h893fCKaqD6jueNgNGOVCJj1I05hXLUNHHKuP8y zFYFiV75rhBjHM.RXsXqcDyEAhsR5L7h7k_M7v4Zy0SExvMTuwZS_HvZtL0u .Nz.xCWPJORlw39rW__iU_ASOybbIdX4aMW9P6MPY9fmKi2jwwij5bTLlE_P C1VgTWMqi8DCllbLP8GDIZDa0xX9m766QZXUC1sBCMuWGrNQxq3h0fSULKJt 8UG.Jcej_fYx8AJu4qT_bCrl.jUiCd1mPWhdIpqyurp5Nszb_4gnGKZDQ0kD mbBgSyrgPoNj7__nPuuwXSnkLomFhQXH_b5981DpnCsdWv6fc2gUrahRIoeY p5K3bVxetZIKX29IANJOyPVZ5Oy8JCgIX8OhvtpduXtYL.OUzx4SiNNs3Dmi 8FqvAwXNO4GVaSgcAFw5boeFapuQmDzWB.Lu1nNfbViAZlw-- From: "Karl Vacek" To: "'shop-talk'" References: Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:52:16 -0600 Thread-Index: AQHVNzOMR46iXQDPB2JSy3niDsXMowHem8EaAT9Sv8+cLxP/wA== Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] [Bulk] Re: Seasonal water hammer? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I'm not a plumber though I do all my own work. Ideally, every water outlet should have a hammer trap - one for cold, one for hot. Most simply, a hammer trap is teed into the supply line as close as possible to the outlet. A trap includes at least a foot of pipe of the same size as the run (or even better a size or two larger), oriented vertically up from the tee, with a cap at the top. If you don't have hammer traps you will likely get water hammer. Hammer traps do tend to fill up with water as the air entrapped in them gradually becomes absorbed into the water. If at all possible, try do thoroughly drain the house at least every year, making sure to open all faucets etc. to drain all water from the traps and fill them with air. It occurs to me that since you note that the problem happens when the supply water is colder, you may have one or more traps that allow more interface between the water and the trapped air - and cold water holds more air than warm water does, hence it would happen more quickly when supply water is colder. But that seems more theoretical and should only change the speed of air absorption a small amount. Karl -----Original Message----- From: Larry Spector Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Shop-talk] Seasonal water hammer? Thanks for the feedback. There are small "preventers" on the back of my clothes washer, but there's not much volume there. I've tried draining the whole house a couple of times, to try and empty out any water that may have collected. That tends to work for a week or so, but it doesn't last. I was thinking of adding an expansion tank near the water inlet, something like this: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Watts-8-5-in-W-x-11-5-in-D-x-8-5-in-H-Pre-Pressur ized-Steel-Water-Expansion-Tank-DET-5/100677607 I believe that it might be easier to do this, than to add vertical pipes in the space I have access to. -Larry On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 1:33 PM, Eric J Russell wrote: > Is there a water hammer preventer in the system? (I don't know if that > is the real name - usually a capped off section of vertical pipe, the > intention is for that vertical piece to be filled with air and act as > damper for sudden changes in water pressure.) > > If so, the cold weather would likely reduce the volume of air in the > water hammer preventer, lessening the dampening effect. Draining the > water pipes might let it get refilled with air and return the preventer to full effect. > Or a larger vertical pipe (longer or larger diameter) might fix it. > > Eric Russell > Mebane, NC > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Spector" > > To: "shop-talk" > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2014 12:50 PM > Subject: [Shop-talk] Seasonal water hammer? > > > > I've got an odd problem, and it's been going on for a couple of years now. >> Every fall, when the cold water supply (county water) starts getting >> even colder, I get water hammer. I can usually get it to go away by >> turning off the tap and turning it back on slowly, but it's a pain to deal with. >> >> Any idea what may be causing it and what can be done to alleviate it? >> >> Thanks, >> Larry _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/kvacek@ameritech.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Nov 5 15:33:31 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2549258099D for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:33:30 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from p3plsmtpa07-09.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (p3plsmtpa07-09.prod.phx3.secureserver.net [173.201.192.238]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16F1B25806BC for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:03:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from PatsOffice ([38.103.208.34]) by p3plsmtpa07-09.prod.phx3.secureserver.net with id By7P1p00E0l45Le01y7PQM; Wed, 05 Nov 2014 15:07:24 -0700 From: "Pat Horne" To: "'Karl Vacek'" , "'shop-talk'" References: <002101cff93a$62931720$27b94560$@Ameritech.net> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 16:07:22 -0600 Thread-Index: AQHVNzOMR46iXQDPB2JSy3niDsXMowHem8EaAT9Sv8+cLxP/wIAAFplQ Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] [Bulk] Re: Seasonal water hammer? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Larry, I've had this kind of problem on taps that we don't use often. Turns out that the problem was that the packing nut on the tap was loose, allowing the valve stem to move a bit, affecting the water flow through the valve. I've also heard that a loose faucet washer can cause the same thing. Do all your taps do this, or just one or two? If you turn on the taps for your washing machine and run the washer, is there water hammer when the washer shuts the water off? If not, then it is probably not a water hammer, but modulation of the water flow such as I described to start with. Peace, Pat > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Spector" > > To: "shop-talk" > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2014 12:50 PM > Subject: [Shop-talk] Seasonal water hammer? > > > > I've got an odd problem, and it's been going on for a couple of years now. >> Every fall, when the cold water supply (county water) starts getting >> even colder, I get water hammer. I can usually get it to go away by >> turning off the tap and turning it back on slowly, but it's a pain to deal with. >> >> Any idea what may be causing it and what can be done to alleviate it? >> >> Thanks, >> Larry _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/kvacek@ameritech.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Nov 5 16:22:49 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 442CB2584511 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 16:22:49 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm27-vm8.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (nm27-vm8.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [216.39.63.235]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3393D2580972 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:55:43 -0700 (MST) s=s1024; t=1415228350; bh=pQfUuQaeH4he8RwVL3fiZsUW1wYgaYUrDU+kXnPQOJk=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=p0QkJvkNV/xqVM1N2/wZb5DWMw5Oby7TuDEjzd8MGUe/3lbvKsyyzolR3Y4BgwbS/GyKUQN4b1LPHQh+PVzn9LZKQ6xgWmfNvvWBeoJWCtG5MLCCgDha8UruPjwhQsYcvC3qTIgELVygNkSOxLw0XudqNwVN0Olxzg30aYTe6dc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=att.net; b=Fdk7JDMkmy0cYX9uggqcxgPslbwELXWMpcpUYyIPjKMoQhBdZJeOlBEG3M5bkAPefw0HUeQm0cE5nXKRloMFO+jJYcQlkAyJnDC4Zuj7GPsyAyBnXKYO6/e/XO6HZM5Hbp9D+50CROxcn16JJrCol6ai7ib8arxc/z3lA4HDVHg=; Received: from [216.39.60.166] by nm27.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Nov 2014 22:59:10 -0000 Received: from [67.195.22.117] by tm2.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Nov 2014 22:59:10 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp112.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Nov 2014 22:59:10 -0000 hqRjL0H5jFXUr2o8cUCoIW9zqbA6non0U1bv.8YQ810f.81_Rg88Kt8sHZO0 FJCXA2IpZj_buRiTL_qRnhOnPs_cf1bhkCNxnvbcKz_2fZIzpfzIe0K6CuHc YxUbZJAQEdzP0uuKiU6VEjcBT2hKRznMCEB7s5m8CEqLuKH37JdaVj3Mg9Kh BXTZ8q_aMfiVprjcRaLicFdZ8SiSkZ_0Bc2t.hV_.g9QpZxeMM1JQzasM9KH E06GkRxfMfky43soNFuRLX8D_6gdDKRQT3l6T1LDOaBpBLHdcGCcoyy_dzg_ VIFdpb1avty_QKLIJ5LcNZ0C.YCoV6flMtt3ACYPOqYh3BrXj99lVbAo18we BGWZxGK1LKiVaJk31HcAR9uhoo6Nd9XXA9sg2wGXwmLYt9VUt1A9Mx_OJMHm JqFvi0Ja4DW7lxo8AQNCTViSOUkSqZpvH8x_lSRm7ZDY1Drr2a_dH3aTjyPP Xz61PPmk898r61ZtGNJUvbuEJym1Z6r6_PZQYOMZkKJEY4XHyhiiuNy6HVfQ cHzNG4_w_lf6bHPtzu7VW52Z.t.76huNrew-- From: "John Niolon" To: "shop-talk" Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 17:01:07 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] led security lighting vrs incandescent` Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I've just changed out 5 of 8 bulbs in my corner lights on the house and shop... they are typical 500 watt halogen stick light fixtures... they have a pretty long life as they are not dusk to dawn and we only use then for company arrivals and work in front of the shop... the problem is that the fixtures are metal and the lense covers are plastic that is old (20 years) and brittle and I now have 3 of the eight with cracked or missing lense covers... I've had to Rube Goldberg some lense cover retainers... so I'm thinking of replacing and considering LED.... I know the cost difference but I like the low wattage and long life expect... my question is the light output how do they compare watt for watt as far as flood light illumination !!! are they as bright ?? fill me in led gurus thanks john --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Nov 5 16:40:39 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA20B2584502 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 16:40:39 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cdptpa-oedge-vip.email.rr.com (unknown [107.14.166.227]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12B2C2580972 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 16:10:50 -0700 (MST) Authentication-Results: cdptpa-oedge03 smtp.user=tr3driver@ca.rr.com; auth=pass (LOGIN) Received: from [107.14.174.248] ([107.14.174.248:13743] helo=cdptpa-web03) by cdptpa-oedge03 (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.5.0.35861 r(Momo-dev:tip)) with ESMTPA id 85/38-19530-B3FAA545; Wed, 05 Nov 2014 23:14:03 +0000 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 23:14:03 +0000 From: Randall To: shop-talk Sensitivity: Normal 2014 23:14:03 +0000 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Seasonal water hammer? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net ---- Larry Spector wrote: > I've got an odd problem, and it's been going on for a couple of years now. > Every fall, when the cold water supply (county water) starts getting even > colder, I get water hammer. I can usually get it to go away by turning off > the tap and turning it back on slowly, but it's a pain to deal with. This caught my eye ... "water hammer" is what happens when you turn the water _off_ suddenly. Your mention of turning it _on_ slowly suggests that you are talking about something else; like perhaps the stem vibration that was already mentioned. FWIW, there are water hammer arrestors that use a diaphragm or piston to isolate the air cushion; hence they shouldn't require draining, at least not every year. My experience has been that just mounting the pipes properly eliminates audible water hammer, but YMMV. Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Nov 5 16:56:05 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 937B72584F2B for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 16:56:05 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cdptpa-oedge-vip.email.rr.com (cdptpa-outbound-snat.email.rr.com [107.14.166.231]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FF4025802EA for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 16:36:06 -0700 (MST) Authentication-Results: cdptpa-oedge01 smtp.user=tr3driver@ca.rr.com; auth=pass (LOGIN) Received: from [107.14.174.248] ([107.14.174.248:17596] helo=cdptpa-web03) by cdptpa-oedge01 (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.5.0.35861 r(Momo-dev:tip)) with ESMTPA id 31/D0-26437-535BA545; Wed, 05 Nov 2014 23:39:33 +0000 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 23:39:33 +0000 From: Randall To: shop-talk Sensitivity: Normal 2014 23:39:33 +0000 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] led security lighting vrs incandescent` Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > so I'm thinking of replacing and considering LED.... I know the cost > difference but I like the low wattage and long life expect... my question > is the light output how do they compare watt for watt as far as flood light > illumination !!! are they as bright ?? fill me in led gurus Actual "watt for watt" they are much brighter, the difference is roughly 7:1. However, watch out for "equivalent watts" as they frequently don't tell the right story. Compare lumens, not watts. Also make sure the bulbs have plenty of cooling. Even though they draw less power, they are much more sensitive to heat and good cooling is essential for long life. I've been reading that even a typical recessed ceiling fixture may not allow enough ventilation. FWIW, I'm continuing with incandescent for now, even though I've got to replace one of the fixtures. Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Nov 5 17:34:36 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2C652584F6B for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 17:34:36 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qc0-f181.google.com (mail-qc0-f181.google.com [209.85.216.181]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E9E42580A1C for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 17:09:59 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-qc0-f181.google.com with SMTP id w7so1563067qcr.12 for ; Wed, 05 Nov 2014 16:13:26 -0800 (PST) h=from:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:subject:message-id:date :to:mime-version; bh=J2VByihLZDSCcZSEFpytRTR85NBEQDPsH7z9Bf2p3UQ=; b=HXAFDBvULTxFpm+bXS7g/6akrXx1yT6rUHITlOsViRNWlgJxsR+dqWxb729+pjPN+z VGkzpnrKqANAIcAvK4sB9b7pNGw8RjyVP9P89EgjXrRLcM8pWB4xeHYJmnh6ioUirS0z hZd056oRjzT8fxBQeBgrPtKhnvt9fCkDooBVx30NKV5Q521yUKhi06a4whlR7fMRp8fW dtM3BfePppPjFz9wKkvlaOIsfUXoVpNXy78UpPL3q0PCRj49eCtLAF8h5AQ3pJBOu5zi p9Sqafa3NPT+hI+Ua1/mbUt2699JmSTV6lViJJuv2OVjq4+rqSQgWuC5XUpoJiknUE02 jKBA== Wed, 05 Nov 2014 16:13:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from [198.18.2.83] (168-92-168-4.ipv4.firstcomm.com. [168.92.168.4]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id t107sm4494344qgd.35.2014.11.05.16.13.24 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 05 Nov 2014 16:13:25 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 19:13:23 -0500 To: shop-talk Subject: [Shop-talk] Performance Air Cleaners Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I have been watching old episodes of Wheeler Dealers lately and the last two I saw were about an MX-5/Miata and BMW 3 Series. In both cases, one of the first things Edd did was replace the stock air cleaner assembly with a performance air filter. According to Edd, it is all good: increased horsepower, better sound, etc. However, I have to believe that the contraption he is replacing (filter box, filter, hoses, etc.) costs the manufacturers more than than performance filters would. If the KN options (I think that is what Edd is using) are so good and increase horsepower, why wouldnt the manufacturers - particularly BMW - put them in to begin with? Just curious. And thinking about my 2000 3-Series. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Nov 5 18:05:30 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9984D2584F82 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 18:05:30 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm21-vm9.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (nm21-vm9.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [216.39.62.68]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F28A25808A5 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 17:43:09 -0700 (MST) s=s1024; t=1415234796; bh=1mIM1ftmATZCv/4Wf6U7r5tYp0HdurPIe0QNgzECke8=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:From:Subject; b=FODDHfMrEqMuFYC0x7+HRbS0IRLpZ/4v31H7kOxopt+sI8CJaS+8Ka5EZNA/PGg3TiRcxfEToSE8OVE8/SgItUqNOD0uC7O8PiTao4lEb0uPxPdA2zGgpAsmJRzFJSicj7bP0S5Xh+WAue8IUX+hZgq35PwBNsY+3K1xaickC5U= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=snet.net; b=XyrjbvhpipV+NeghZkh56EcU0ZdXXBS5LcQPb1qttjVa3dYGWDCn7zSJE0pYvJQM2tRHxDxHfuT3OAcYALHDzCRURUCbYglLfiXl2uZYCou+hShtMjm3ezYnx418wPQDYmklAEIj1qWZBJuGGLZYg20qy2YtRxx13NEPB6hdOVQ=; Received: from [216.39.60.169] by nm21.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Nov 2014 00:46:36 -0000 Received: from [98.138.104.98] by tm5.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Nov 2014 00:46:36 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp118.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Nov 2014 00:46:36 -0000 Nn_BpR.hqbG6zcLG3r5D.r5YKjwOAlh.AZH4NQ1hr9ER.svEyoJOYM6Xgiz9 5Umk5pjPzpG.vTDgu07Ur77RgdD1mtnOUrWvK_7KSzqLXSsHyAFFrDHj8biG QP2hMQrcUP9gfZ4G3O9ckvdVBIUMi4VLFjc6Fqd5dr2ltXJ5o1TtwMl3mgMU IkCsDaKtHQK0b_624y5vvPvTY2kVFSkKA15WUoqRp1UL36Xv3M.cjJ8L96zK JzBRJrOgET2E4zR611lDE8p4MwYx67MUpuyZu1pEZD2R773JZJ7vXJ.vsXmv kejoyIeD3x4zrB7kCWB__Cya_OWODykqXDWTihEomHFGPnQanrKfVo8Wy240 CCEmix8n4kNZV9LS0Ba67C7JdB6eHv67TshM9lWbPXta58mszmpAQcW_KCAh z99Hb4dhM81ZXsuWLADw2Ko6v_OnFctiCJI3zjXwvdHp.MfF9jxG0gpi_a5e yypzlSYd1N7SQt.0vGhbO7Bz08IT7M3VaVUjJcUXD Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 19:46:41 -0500 From: john Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 To: Shop Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] GE profile Dishwasher Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I have a GE profile dishwasher that's about 5 years old. I find it's not getting the dishes as clean as it used to. Does anyone have any suggestions of where to start looking for the problem? Everything appears to be spinning inside. Thanks for any ideas. John Mitchell _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Nov 5 18:50:15 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35B762584FF0 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 18:50:15 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-wg0-f50.google.com (mail-wg0-f50.google.com [74.125.82.50]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DAEC2580A1C for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 18:34:46 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-wg0-f50.google.com with SMTP id z12so58062wgg.37 for ; Wed, 05 Nov 2014 17:38:12 -0800 (PST) d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=XaLfMX+oU7GzVEKNse24FGfC7PAaDtRtKcDsZyH0tns=; b=Ly5NBntkfLHy8xU2KAjMp1gJ9KAYsFiEjrFPQg7dKebLCwAMWbgwnAadCvSHUZ/YP1 1MplyyipNhGrZKjXrbELa+KZVOK7Q9fFlCJagUwTsgItP9P7bR9R6wFMSp8LB83Zyt3s /WeZCmye7Y4fLaJNjpQG3w3EKLaN1fCpisWR20+IjP2JwsRlJhoYrsTg/srmwjkqtHR5 lmFjvJcxG09KSz+NM6+1U/ZcJ63RTzLtRzfGddFtb8fKwj7MqFYNCXJVV44vkzsqblHu eD6myIebO378tXbLeQ5OsYcaRophLgnptzC1rE1c3SYZt1bhGDWvJs++VSkxQ1nIejUB ziNw== s13mr35840652wij.11.1415237892731; Wed, 05 Nov 2014 17:38:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.27.13.4 with HTTP; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 17:38:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.27.13.4 with HTTP; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 17:38:12 -0800 (PST) References: <545AC4F1.6080307@snet.net> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 20:38:12 -0500 From: Doug Braun To: John Mitchell Cc: Shop Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] GE profile Dishwasher Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Check if any of the little holes in the rotating arms are clogged. Doug On Nov 5, 2014 8:09 PM, "john Mitchell" wrote: > > I have a GE profile dishwasher that's about 5 years old. I find it's not getting the dishes as clean as it used to. Does anyone have any suggestions of where to start looking for the problem? Everything appears to be spinning inside. Thanks for any ideas. John Mitchell _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Nov 5 19:05:57 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A59C2584B91 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 19:05:57 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cdptpa-oedge-vip.email.rr.com (cdptpa-outbound-snat.email.rr.com [107.14.166.227]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C27BF2580A1C for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 18:34:53 -0700 (MST) Authentication-Results: cdptpa-oedge03 smtp.user=tr3driver@ca.rr.com; auth=pass (LOGIN) Received: from [107.14.174.248] ([107.14.174.248:40231] helo=cdptpa-web03) by cdptpa-oedge03 (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.5.0.35861 r(Momo-dev:tip)) with ESMTPA id 5D/F5-19530-D01DA545; Thu, 06 Nov 2014 01:38:21 +0000 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 1:38:21 +0000 From: Randall To: Shop Talk Sensitivity: Normal 2014 1:38:21 +0000 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] GE profile Dishwasher Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net ---- john Mitchell wrote: > I have a GE profile dishwasher that's about 5 years old. I find > it's not getting the dishes as clean as it used to. Does anyone have > any suggestions of where to start looking for the problem? Everything > appears to be spinning inside. Have you cleaned all the screens and water jets? On my old Kitchenaid, the little jets in the arm for the upper rack would frequently get clogged, as well as the screens at the bottom. Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Nov 5 19:07:43 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D2822584B91 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 19:07:43 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cdptpa-oedge-vip.email.rr.com (cdptpa-outbound-snat.email.rr.com [107.14.166.232]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1FE32580A1C for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 18:38:45 -0700 (MST) Authentication-Results: cdptpa-oedge02 smtp.user=tr3driver@ca.rr.com; auth=pass (LOGIN) Received: from [107.14.174.248] ([107.14.174.248:41618] helo=cdptpa-web03) by cdptpa-oedge02 (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.5.0.35861 r(Momo-dev:tip)) with ESMTPA id B9/4E-12284-5F1DA545; Thu, 06 Nov 2014 01:42:13 +0000 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 1:42:13 +0000 From: Randall To: Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com>, shop-talk Sensitivity: Normal 2014 1:42:13 +0000 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Performance Air Cleaners Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net ---- Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> wrote: > If the KN options (I > think that is what Edd is using) are so good and increase horsepower, why > wouldnt the manufacturers - particularly BMW - put them in to begin with? Because manufacturers warranty the engine. There's also the emissions aspect of rings that wear out, and so on, plus most people don't like hearing intake noise. The K&N filters do flow more easily, as they claim, but they also stop less dirt than the stock filters. And from the real world tests I've seen, the power increase isn't all that much either. One percent is useful on the track, certainly, but hardly noticeable on the street. Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Nov 5 19:08:42 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B425625850E6 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 19:08:42 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qg0-f45.google.com (mail-qg0-f45.google.com [209.85.192.45]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B731E2580A1C for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 18:45:03 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-qg0-f45.google.com with SMTP id z107so66935qgd.18 for ; Wed, 05 Nov 2014 17:48:31 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=mAnzs2u4TM7cPpLHCxVxOxovEAUcIjo0P9++D4V7Ac4=; b=TJoXEw7e91A4OkpJ2elqOf2EYV/d4kcIMeMXVrnvRg6wt0qBJeqFeIDTZy65Qwbvg/ blGeTNt5E0WDcEiuVVAkCO9w0YXCz+8lCpT9t5G3+Y80vJXsqC2haxYkqc1T4tsa+X0E UcoQ4kvlHzG8hEKy9fDa5Twx6E10kpREbhFV9joharZVD6Mw1qExepL6MfmBWEFYp3Nn X7DEFnlro/OAT2aeRBJc+zXQv5JytuozOIbd+3RvENv0YZnNntrCzXvz3tXdmDVbPmT2 heid48cQoFr4GHhmCp+K1zcD+glshx3GHwz1Tdhz+2UsfVLqYdrthM1uYXkiFqDMm2Bk FDew== d61mr1902617qge.28.1415238511002; Wed, 05 Nov 2014 17:48:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.96.126.129 with HTTP; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 17:48:30 -0800 (PST) References: Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 19:48:30 -0600 From: John Innis To: Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> Cc: shop-talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Performance Air Cleaners Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Not sure about the bimmer, but I know that on some of the GM cars I have owned the "cold air" performance filter had advantages and disadvantages. It did seem to improve performance, but only at the very top end. It also made the car louder. A lot louder. So much so that with a stock exhaust, the intake was louder than the exhaust at idle and it just roared at full throttle. The lack of a proper filter box also made the car susceptible to splashes in the very wet. So bad that running through a puddle killed the motor on one occasion. The filter got so wet I had to dry it out to get the car running again. For my situation, the performance filter in the special "cold air intake kit" was not worth the tradeoffs. I DO run a K&N filter in the stock box on several of my vehicles, and have been happy with them, but I have not notice any measurable gain in performance. I just prefer to be able to clean and service my air filters. On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 6:13 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> wrote: > I have been watching old episodes of Wheeler Dealers lately and the last > two I > saw were about an MX-5/Miata and BMW 3 Series. In both cases, one of the > first things Edd did was replace the stock air cleaner assembly with a > performance air filter. According to Edd, it is all good: increased > horsepower, better sound, etc. However, I have to believe that the > contraption he is replacing (filter box, filter, hoses, etc.) costs the > manufacturers more than than performance filters would. If the KN options > (I > think that is what Edd is using) are so good and increase horsepower, why > wouldn t the manufacturers - particularly BMW - put them in to begin with? > > Just curious. And thinking about my 2000 3-Series. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis@gmail.com > > -- ================================= = Never offend people with style when you = = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = ================================= _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Nov 5 19:23:47 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5162325803B5 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 19:23:47 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from st11p02mm-asmtp002.mac.com (st11p02mm-asmtp002.mac.com [17.172.220.237]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 616BD2580A1C for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 18:50:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.0.44] (71-222-42-238.ptld.qwest.net [71.222.42.238]) by st11p02mm-asmtp002.mac.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7u4-27.10(7.0.4.27.9) 64bit (built Jun 6 2014)) with ESMTPSA id <0NEL00696HAFTH80@st11p02mm-asmtp002.mac.com> for shop-talk@autox.team.net; Thu, 06 Nov 2014 01:54:20 +0000 (GMT) engine=2.50.10432:5.12.52,1.0.28,0.0.0000 definitions=2014-11-06_01:2014-11-05,2014-11-05,1970-01-01 signatures=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=2 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1408290000 definitions=main-1411060017 From: Darrell Walker Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 17:54:15 -0800 References: <545AC4F1.6080307@snet.net> To: john Mitchell Cc: Shop Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] GE profile Dishwasher Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Check that all the jets in the spray bars are clear. -Darrell > On Nov 5, 2014, at 4:46 PM, john Mitchell wrote: > > I have a GE profile dishwasher that's about 5 years old. I find it's not getting the dishes as clean as it used to. Does anyone have any suggestions of where to start looking for the problem? Everything appears to be spinning inside. Thanks for any ideas. John Mitchell > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/darrellw360@mac.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Nov 5 19:24:12 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A3052585126 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 19:24:12 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm12-vm9.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm12-vm9.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [216.109.114.248]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64B0C258042C for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 19:00:07 -0700 (MST) s=s1024; t=1415239414; bh=zzQ9pfVYneqgdk89eevLXjEyK2BgUS209YfWx8/Rcq4=; h=Date:From:To:CC:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=E7f9ILRrOWADgv5AUlWC9inK4dt+FagMpu3Zd8qRn3dzWFWoitDCaASMMI/RhXenYD4adsHsqyfzitWuKkAgPoIsCOrDaAFSeyh9AcKmL113ubbH5GZ8dCEwx0GpW/832mb38ByXf5c84fanVmecKipxX3Ek4ldNuxh7slEJeqk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=snet.net; b=wWCxjT3+9YG2VtcsKw1xPhDA/I6FocV+LKgXOEXfNEUwQD0XyoX1h8mBRQ8pYca2manZ45I+z+JozvaOA5on7YIepNS4Zy8mhZupBYvKXgfjlBMIa7jjKtTITTtWfuU35/W7B7WeINLhSCou9Eu16bagcqopaRQQF18W5yeb+Tw=; Received: from [66.196.81.156] by nm12.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Nov 2014 02:03:34 -0000 Received: from [98.138.104.97] by tm2.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Nov 2014 02:03:34 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp117.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Nov 2014 02:03:34 -0000 cSuSqMfE062M5g156mlHJOpSmqFvSGGCR.tr7uUgmK3MGw4_pUvAPbhz7N2K eJAs.KJ9bSGnuBuvhDRELCjMPfExCyvrEU7v55MFXpnDhsgVEPpOv0S7_N5r E1ykbUrlpEgnD.GWzxdRPDTh37bA3IgMaq81eTCOWqTAXpQL73UzXWotnqKz w3Wb2sezdZorMWD8N2a7r4bUnplAEeqGQRv3SXPU8S2MjR6ixUrM8J2skls5 1a9LIn7_Ctt2IEA4MZzxNh8MU0oNf0rxwLjKaa.XNSjK9HbvBJ6ohDBPglCb ayvW9jUhlxVvRKVxw5_jqRe_9q7EJayfRDBupsJg99QVw5pNT_k.oMjgAiZt MnHvdZkpGIGdVKpP6B7y9tfPMt_1ahMqRpCIK_Oeqj2tuxPqApbqYZ0xZYMi XA63G11tEfLf7HYYZQnzkaAW9nL5g5EZ52BGke8D137Ce0jpSLMJ87Y59iVv l.YmI_hIE.VcFkHqGIY6JkT3BRXK96bEod6pzI1sA Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 21:03:39 -0500 From: john Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 To: Doug Braun References: <545AC4F1.6080307@snet.net> Cc: Shop Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] GE profile Dishwasher Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net What would be the best way to clean them out? On 11/5/2014 8:38 PM, Doug Braun wrote: > > Check if any of the little holes in the rotating arms are clogged. > > Doug > > On Nov 5, 2014 8:09 PM, "john Mitchell" > > > I have a GE profile dishwasher that's about 5 years old. I find > it's not getting the dishes as clean as it used to. Does anyone have > any suggestions of where to start looking for the problem? Everything > appears to be spinning inside. Thanks for any ideas. John Mitchell _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Nov 5 19:36:11 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBB99258506C for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 19:36:11 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-oi0-f44.google.com (mail-oi0-f44.google.com [209.85.218.44]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44D442580A1C for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 19:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-oi0-f44.google.com with SMTP id h136so91164oig.31 for ; Wed, 05 Nov 2014 18:17:28 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=9+0Tids58LOa+6x60BJD0oLYrnwY0ZtlF8iAa9lYr4M=; b=oiaHqTfU3zSLXl17U/F6nznJa2/dyVtn1TmM0lzAxQiXufbVmwC8HGN+6IgMgG2Sqo N4AuhOqpx43lJM8WFWVNc/4lgZffp0Rp8YrTpjN3eM9VWelp73XoCjS8RMRiczdHCaWF buijVxfAGt/u6mTkhelfqVaXRCtT/lItk4CvEA8MLZC+/h56OqbIAjfr+aaDgGPDBVwx INSS3+0UEY6ArHkQ3VDFUzufNtGEzoHMkd3Czkp6fBU6YvPC45Mk95Qe31IzocEz71mI lkUpeIzee40L4eure4/guzLV3vWEiC6NNamfuPcf0EuEgJjvudjj7jTxBlZlpJZmWLrc nhmw== s125mr885381oib.41.1415240248840; Wed, 05 Nov 2014 18:17:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.202.226.18 with HTTP; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 18:17:28 -0800 (PST) References: Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 21:17:28 -0500 From: Larry Spector To: shop-talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] led security lighting vrs incandescent` Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I made the switch a couple of years ago. The light output is definitely good, but not longevity. I had two LED fixtures die at just over a year, and because the bulb wasn't replaceable, had to replace both fixtures. Fortunately, I kept the receipt and Home Depot replaced them under warranty. If I had it to do over, I'd probably go with fixtures that take normal incandescent bulbs but use LED flood bulbs in them to make them serviceable. -Larry On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 6:01 PM, John Niolon wrote: > I've just changed out 5 of 8 bulbs in my corner lights on the house and > shop... they are typical 500 watt > halogen stick light fixtures... they have a pretty long life as they are > not > dusk to dawn and we only use then for company arrivals and work in front of > the shop... > > the problem is that the fixtures are metal and the lense covers are plastic > that is old (20 years) and brittle and I now have 3 of the eight with > cracked > or missing lense covers... I've had to Rube Goldberg some lense cover > retainers... > > so I'm thinking of replacing and considering LED.... I know the cost > difference but I like the low wattage and long life expect... my > question > is the light output how do they compare watt for watt as far as flood > light > illumination !!! are they as bright ?? fill me in led gurus > > thanks > john _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Nov 5 21:06:24 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F6682585199 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 21:06:24 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-wg0-f47.google.com (mail-wg0-f47.google.com [74.125.82.47]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8887D2580582 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 20:38:12 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-wg0-f47.google.com with SMTP id a1so203375wgh.20 for ; Wed, 05 Nov 2014 19:41:39 -0800 (PST) d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=1wh1S6xrZa6u5qE2CLOjM0SndGvIgLkfBU1nABlzUCo=; b=PukSU2BGGN1u1wDpeflQo7921BRicT9eQ/rrcApDXF0eqKMJsu3mTRsiy/FEBDAK6I rm0Ii0nhI4Fh9aFEJadpD9OVVGIcPuppLXPFd9d2nFHiLFC1AuUUiXvgtO0j/AIcwXmq zFCCmwf2Yx0UuEK1UxInFOC+7Nb9I9Pq+4BqdkLazLb4uvE7TS5+xA0WREfSTh8/kjiV CQo6rluxmMLesU0/GL33HQgyDLH3WBXSeOu1esnGUHN3xDWi/zLNJ4ZSFD4kYTR02wpN tOyxSPb5TLLI4jraJ2e+viXnIrdkrE36B2uj31eoJtsBCQlNMj+QEyS0XMGW8FkMVMyQ stSA== s13mr36387253wij.11.1415245299410; Wed, 05 Nov 2014 19:41:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.27.13.4 with HTTP; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 19:41:39 -0800 (PST) References: Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 22:41:39 -0500 From: Doug Braun To: Shop-Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] led security lighting vrs incandescent` Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Rule #1 for buying lighting: never buy anything from Feit Electric. It is guaranteed to crap out eventually. In my house, we have at least 40 LED bulbs. A majority are the type that HD sells (made by Cree) that are designed to be retrofitted into ceiling cans, and the rest are screw-in light bulb replacements from Philips and Cree. Many of these lights are in rooms like the kitchen and den, and are in use for hours each day. In two years, I have had ZERO failures. Doug On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 9:17 PM, Larry Spector wrote: > I made the switch a couple of years ago. The light output is definitely > good, but not longevity. I had two LED fixtures die at just over a year, > and because the bulb wasn't replaceable, had to replace both fixtures. > Fortunately, I kept the receipt and Home Depot replaced them under > warranty. > > If I had it to do over, I'd probably go with fixtures that take normal > incandescent bulbs but use LED flood bulbs in them to make them > serviceable. > > -Larry > > > On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 6:01 PM, John Niolon wrote: > > > I've just changed out 5 of 8 bulbs in my corner lights on the house and > > shop... they are typical 500 watt > > halogen stick light fixtures... they have a pretty long life as they are > > not > > dusk to dawn and we only use then for company arrivals and work in front > of > > the shop... > > > > the problem is that the fixtures are metal and the lense covers are > plastic > > that is old (20 years) and brittle and I now have 3 of the eight with > > cracked > > or missing lense covers... I've had to Rube Goldberg some lense cover > > retainers... > > > > so I'm thinking of replacing and considering LED.... I know the cost > > difference but I like the low wattage and long life expect... my > > question > > is the light output how do they compare watt for watt as far as flood > > light > > illumination !!! are they as bright ?? fill me in led gurus > > > > thanks > > john > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/doug@dougbraun.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Nov 5 22:51:57 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ADAD25851B7 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 22:51:57 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail.milleredp.com (fw.milleredp.com [198.144.208.110]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 189F625807E8 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 22:22:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from [10.1.2.100] ([::ffff:10.1.2.100]) (AUTH: PLAIN jem, TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,128bits,AES128-SHA) by mail.milleredp.com with ESMTPSA; Wed, 05 Nov 2014 21:25:49 -0800 id 000000000028001F.00000000545B065D.00002739 Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 21:25:49 -0800 From: John Miller User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.2.0 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Performance Air Cleaners Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On 11/5/2014 4:13 PM, Jim Stone wrote: > I have been watching old episodes of Wheeler Dealers lately and the last two I > saw were about an MX-5/Miata and BMW 3 Series. In both cases, one of the > first things Edd did was replace the stock air cleaner assembly with a > performance air filter. According to Edd, it is all good: increased > horsepower, better sound, etc. However, I have to believe that the > contraption he is replacing (filter box, filter, hoses, etc.) costs the > manufacturers more than than performance filters would. If the KN options (I > think that is what Edd is using) are so good and increase horsepower, why > wouldnt the manufacturers - particularly BMW - put them in to begin with? Well, substantially increased maintenance requirements and certain finicky incompatibilities with some engine controls, increased noise, potentially reduced engine life depending on the filter material, etc. And they only offer any sort of performance improvement The K&N and similar oiled-foam filter elements are the subject of religious wars, some feel that they do a poor job of trapping smaller contaminants, they certainly have less surface area than a typical OE-type pleated paper filter and will clog up faster. The filter itself is expensive compared to a decent paper filter, and while some folks do just toss them every year they're intended to be serviceable through cleaning with soap and water and re-oiling. In a modern engine equipped with a hot-wire mass-airflow sensor, failure to get ALL the excess oil off the filter after re-oiling can result in contamination of the MAF, something which many automakers have gotten quite good at detecting (and it will NOT be covered under warranty.) The filter itself is rarely an obstruction in modern intake design; the design of the airbox plumbing can be, though that's usually for noise/sound control, keeping the snorkel high enough that it doesn't suck in water from puddles, etc. Personal opinion: they're not snake oil but they're rarely a significant improvement. I have them on a couple cars, but they have to be maintained. Our 195K-mile '98 540i has had a Dinan intake with such a filter for almost all its life. You also have to look out for the various quirks of aftermarket intake systems - if the intake is not sealed off from hot engine compartment air you are probably losing power from it, and in the case of our 540i the filter is located low on the right side, and there have been cases of cars with that setup sucking enough water to hydrolock the engine. Certainly that's never happened to us, but I did manage to suck enough spray from a puddle along a curb to destroy a MAF once... Was once on a tour of the Dinan facility, eight or nine years ago? They were doing some work on an E60 545i or 550i and Steve Dinan noted that the air filter element was actually two separate units - the usual paper filter, with an activated-charcoal filter underneath it to help the car pass the EPA hot-soak evaporative-emissions test (prevent vapors from any drops of fuel that might leak out of the injectors from making their way back through the intake passage.) He said just removing the charcoal filter was worth 15HP. John. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Nov 6 06:40:28 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 167022584FF7 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 06:40:28 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-wi0-f173.google.com (mail-wi0-f173.google.com [209.85.212.173]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87CDC2580A1F for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 06:21:50 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-wi0-f173.google.com with SMTP id n3so1468173wiv.6 for ; Thu, 06 Nov 2014 05:25:17 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=DSJgEvhbyEskqBUeIBZusTMsJD/+AJ6MXFfilk83+C4=; b=PtHY/uPOP/qYBgq5JbCIViuGkC39LCBXCtzbLK/kaoY3G4WDPPb9Ex9oanwG55tNKg GUr2G0zvdIiA2cVv2SgFE6wlQ9LC4HQ1829VZCtX1UnIX/+9n9dY6DVSxHFs7WbQmJON icUBok39bBPHOcbRNmXoic4jp4+RvTj+IaQSWDiwIP9axTNecqW7Mm5WvIIDg1VHJtSE V5wc/zhmWIw/te+/TLwOqWfb8Pkidu+nX+iH3aX5vvh9b6LruG22OKKbg190obB1cAod OSyXW0CZQVNOZw8o52Vjo3DPpVVJYsapUy7tzFCzbNUHjT4UQ1VRW0Tqalcim6Vhf7+v G39A== gz3mr25237852wib.38.1415280317686; Thu, 06 Nov 2014 05:25:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.27.39.136 with HTTP; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 05:25:17 -0800 (PST) References: <545AC4F1.6080307@snet.net> <545AD6FB.3030700@snet.net> Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 08:25:17 -0500 From: Jeff Scarbrough To: john Mitchell Cc: Shop Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] GE profile Dishwasher Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net The arm and screen should all be easily removable. Then use a small pick and some vinegar to clean out all the clog, backflushing the arm. On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 9:03 PM, john Mitchell wrote: > What would be the best way to clean them out? > On 11/5/2014 8:38 PM, Doug Braun wrote: >> >> Check if any of the little holes in the rotating arms are clogged. >> >> Doug >> >> On Nov 5, 2014 8:09 PM, "john Mitchell" > > >> > I have a GE profile dishwasher that's about 5 years old. I find >> it's not getting the dishes as clean as it used to. Does anyone have >> any suggestions of where to start looking for the problem? Everything >> appears to be spinning inside. Thanks for any ideas. John Mitchell > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Nov 6 07:56:39 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF4562585495 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 07:56:39 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-pa0-f52.google.com (mail-pa0-f52.google.com [209.85.220.52]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 123CE25844BD for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 07:34:52 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-pa0-f52.google.com with SMTP id fa1so1374166pad.11 for ; Thu, 06 Nov 2014 06:38:19 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=xqeXF+X5xBmqHS/B6ECZjjIP2UX/pHXnk8N1Tpgcxjw=; b=mppKGM0rAg7ydURDKPpCKS9Tt77fFmnf2NmpdIeKaOKj3AZEYz5Dlke+8JS8sGpKG7 nSWqxeRKKYCMszNRmSluTX6ApaZPmC1rn1HeFH9MxTucJbktLPef17U2elS1XOsjk2rf qYFtsIO2fmoi/erYoAhgsWhoTvzPR4jXlfMaUPjBwhi+0b0WyQicwQxKN9wGwuqnJGdU eTDd5TOP09x+nnrFZu3R9P4s2k9aa2Ldm9b3bOb0OMFfDpvvhfbJ1kJwkAOXvx8pISGP TH7l386HlcoLDcR3WNLGlkFQ540veHKoy2akppIojxVQVOnVNNWir5f3rSmKByl8v7lj s8yA== z5mr4794407pdk.120.1415284699853; Thu, 06 Nov 2014 06:38:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.70.96.141 with HTTP; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 06:38:19 -0800 (PST) References: <545AC4F1.6080307@snet.net> <545AD6FB.3030700@snet.net> Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 08:38:19 -0600 From: David Scheidt To: john Mitchell Cc: Shop Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] GE profile Dishwasher Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 8:03 PM, john Mitchell wrote: > What would be the best way to clean them out? Some arms are snapped together, and can be pried apart and put back together. Also check the screens for the pump(s). stuff builds up on tem, and restrict flow. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Nov 6 08:28:05 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A7A82585544 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 08:28:05 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-ch2-02v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-02v.sys.comcast.net [69.252.207.34]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D43A258457C for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 08:01:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from resomta-ch2-04v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.100]) by resqmta-ch2-02v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id CF5M1p0062AWL2D01F5Shf; Thu, 06 Nov 2014 15:05:26 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.22] ([24.2.215.4]) by resomta-ch2-04v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id CF5R1p00M06FvTL01F5Rkg; Thu, 06 Nov 2014 15:05:26 +0000 Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2014 10:05:26 -0500 From: "Peter J. Thomas" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 To: shop-talk References: <20141105233933.8P0Z3.118976.root@cdptpa-web03> s=q20140121; t=1415286326; bh=7YKalu/K1D9JBINWagyrPuCBOFMTp4aAug5JRFLMXvg=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:Subject: Content-Type; b=V5chU7XbrR+4cyPvsUQUdKV1eGciUEWO6J0KkcDeDxMoKj2jNosb4Q3Uu6o3EGg5S BfjBAoDTLPni25QLMz2Euk2Bg3vS7Czu+XIF5nztCMVxOXLH6unZboYfIZUQ1j7NsV 2p66VFStXYfF/XHXTKN8SDh7TF9x/Bw1dIb+/xf/MPVwUPdexcMBdWi7SX0xHcUk32 P9BBJKE8y69wZJR0uW9m2yIKi5b5ahU2iw2YELh7ABqtIu060zOY+g8B7XX2LegE8/ jWKd3coSZa9PueD/KgWIFmITCoPpODAoBTcQgKnGW8bEd5hr8E2RW3mOdPi4T5Dh+G w2FQSru0xoHwA== Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] led security lighting vrs incandescent` Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On 11/5/2014 6:39 PM, Randall wrote: >> so I'm thinking of replacing and considering LED.... I know the cost >> difference but I like the low wattage and long life expect... my question >> is the light output how do they compare watt for watt as far as flood light >> illumination !!! are they as bright ?? fill me in led gurus > Actual "watt for watt" they are much brighter, the difference is roughly 7:1. However, watch out for "equivalent watts" as they frequently don't tell the right story. Compare lumens, not watts. The ratio for halogens will be a little lower. Halogens are more efficient than non halogen incandescent. Probably closer to 5:1 but still a significant savings. Randall is correct, lumens are a better comparison but if you don't know the lumens a good guess is 100W LED fixture. Daylight bulbs are little more efficient than soft white. LED bulbs are actual florescent because they use phosphors to improve the quality of the light. A white LED without phosphors produce a bluish light, guessing 7000K, so phosphors provide a color shift by absorbing the 7000K light and remitting 5000K. The higher the kelvin light color of the bulb the higher the efficiency. Though I stick to a kelvin around 5000K. Higher than that you are might be wasting energy producing colors that you can't see well; meaning though a 5000K and a 6000K might put out the same lumens the 5000K will seem brighter because your eyes can see all the lumens. Peter T. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Nov 6 09:28:35 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 351A62585735 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 09:28:35 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cdptpa-oedge-vip.email.rr.com (cdptpa-outbound-snat.email.rr.com [107.14.166.225]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BEA825846E0 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 09:06:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from [98.148.60.115] ([98.148.60.115:55005] helo=rypc) by cdptpa-oedge02 (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.5.0.35861 r(Momo-dev:tip)) with ESMTP id D4/56-04606-35D9B545; Thu, 06 Nov 2014 16:09:55 +0000 From: "Randall" Cc: "'Shop Talk'" Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 08:09:57 -0800 Thread-Index: Ac/5aUFUQShzx3CXRLqIAfOHC07f5QAcgFYQ Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] GE profile Dishwasher Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > What would be the best way to clean them out? On my Kitchen Aid, there were larger openings on the ends of the arm. So to clean the smaller openings along the length, I usually just poked a wooden toothpick through the hole and let the blob of food get flushed out the larger opening. (The KA is gone now, and so far I've not had any problems with the Bosch replacement.) It's also worthwhile occasionally running a cycle with a generous dollop of (cheap) white vinegar and no dishes. Or if you prefer, a product like CLR. Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Nov 6 12:16:05 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A9C925850C2 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 12:16:05 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-oi0-f46.google.com (mail-oi0-f46.google.com [209.85.218.46]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6155B2580A07 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 11:44:59 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-oi0-f46.google.com with SMTP id g201so1219347oib.19 for ; Thu, 06 Nov 2014 10:48:27 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=vpypXDFSzjMkHPetiQ2ASi9xlPvU8xaUQgFWLHiR8J4=; b=HpN/yb8eCpGmUoQ/rpD6aJ/mTLU+/6rPL8yfUOSUq2FmwezNru2awbKsmhx9Qi2+7L MZVNNFN/YUWd/0HwatnWz5g4QCiH6Mh1+Vb9acVAD3zQywT9hWCXlhbRRplL0g/1JT7q bAbQAN4OKMNENHssL9OQzpWqUO8L1s5eIUO2+pp3ss6aFlcQ5lsRstCzquDQQl1AemMm rThytq5/AlMtdas3Sp4SF8Ne2XbQOCnV/D6e0cqNnO4frtuVpNt14u50m61f2+mHGJ8h 5FcQmlaJz/HxN1ETb2XPHGngO7LIDP8t/FRIpLV689owXUwUnmy/08VxhdQJjf20eJvI vT3g== e141mr5008011oih.8.1415299707310; Thu, 06 Nov 2014 10:48:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.202.62.132 with HTTP; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 10:48:07 -0800 (PST) References: <20141105233933.8P0Z3.118976.root@cdptpa-web03> <545B8E36.4000104@comcast.net> From: Peter Murray Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 13:48:07 -0500 To: shop-talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] led security lighting vrs incandescent` Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I'll echo what has been said about avoiding Feit Electric. We redid our kitchen a little more than 3 years ago and have about 7 of the Cree in-ceiling lights, and they're great. We also have 8 PAR38 cans in the basement, and I replaced all of those incandescent bulbs with Cree LED bulbs about a year ago, and all of those are still just fine. We have some CF lights in some places where I just turn the light on and leave it on for hours. I have seen plenty of evidence that short-cycles with fluorescent bulbs leads to short bulb lifespans. I won't buy any more CF bulbs. LED is just as cost-effective, and doesn't have that pesky mercury (and is not as fragile). For security lighting that isn't on for long periods, incandescent is still a very cost-effective solution. I bought a security light with built-in LEDs, and haven't installed it yet. I'll report back what I find. It isn't high-powered for distant wide-angle coverage, it is designed for over an outside doorway or similar. Regarding light color, I have found that the 5000K and up bulbs are far too cold/sterile/harsh for my liking. I have found that (to my eye) temperatures between 3000K and 3500K (typical mid-point color temperature choice) yield the most "natural" lighting, and are often mistaken for conventional/halogen incandescent. -Peter On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 10:05 AM, Peter J. Thomas wrote: > On 11/5/2014 6:39 PM, Randall wrote: > >> so I'm thinking of replacing and considering LED.... I know the cost >>> difference but I like the low wattage and long life expect... my >>> question >>> is the light output how do they compare watt for watt as far as flood >>> light >>> illumination !!! are they as bright ?? fill me in led gurus >>> >> Actual "watt for watt" they are much brighter, the difference is roughly >> 7:1. However, watch out for "equivalent watts" as they frequently don't >> tell the right story. Compare lumens, not watts. >> > > The ratio for halogens will be a little lower. Halogens are more > efficient than non halogen incandescent. Probably closer to 5:1 but still > a significant savings. Randall is correct, lumens are a better comparison > but if you don't know the lumens a good guess is 100W LED fixture. > > Daylight bulbs are little more efficient than soft white. LED bulbs are > actual florescent because they use phosphors to improve the quality of the > light. A white LED without phosphors produce a bluish light, guessing > 7000K, so phosphors provide a color shift by absorbing the 7000K light and > remitting 5000K. The higher the kelvin light color of the bulb the higher > the efficiency. Though I stick to a kelvin around 5000K. Higher than that > you are might be wasting energy producing colors that you can't see well; > meaning though a 5000K and a 6000K might put out the same lumens the 5000K > will seem brighter because your eyes can see all the lumens. > > Peter T. > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ > peterwmurray@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Nov 6 12:46:34 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C7F925850E6 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 12:46:34 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-pa0-f43.google.com (mail-pa0-f43.google.com [209.85.220.43]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4582C2585415 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 12:29:56 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-pa0-f43.google.com with SMTP id eu11so1876298pac.2 for ; Thu, 06 Nov 2014 11:33:24 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=R7N27bF60L3D0YL3y9buBmYa8n3OoVhLk0qy9gWNqlY=; b=zGM6WIkMB5JVx7pG33wn4cGb46OiSneoWilV2BRTPGiLtrr7yoxzFknno3JqUVw9+H YpHNgSDRerI4yj+Kn4ofEz8pQOW0oxJajMbg0NJG2eGcRV6JBMvU9lml8woQtOh2Vw5A JlKr6ucB2a2QRP7LyYBtLg5piaTr2O0nJekt2o3v/ZFT+MqzuGy5FXqYp00ODm8ewozz igyiI269BjHEzjikKmhDFgiQg6Y5xWZow/84X1VUSKRxDKg4CH4LhkwHv4xeGGyAvmFz qqF53Q2M4xWFmBCyIXSswcps5HPWw0Vk0pwdvSI4/Q+wubBui/mNzJ0sRrBAnkJGIH89 sVXQ== u5mr6559195pbz.128.1415302404146; Thu, 06 Nov 2014 11:33:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.70.96.141 with HTTP; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 11:33:24 -0800 (PST) References: <002101cff93a$62931720$27b94560$@Ameritech.net> Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 13:33:24 -0600 From: David Scheidt To: Karl Vacek Cc: shop-talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] [Bulk] Re: Seasonal water hammer? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > On Nov 5, 2014, at 14:52, "Karl Vacek" wrote: > > I'm not a plumber though I do all my own work. > > Ideally, every water outlet should have a hammer trap - one for cold, one > for hot. Most simply, a hammer trap is teed into the supply line as close > as possible to the outlet. A trap includes at least a foot of pipe of the > same size as the run (or even better a size or two larger), oriented > vertically up from the tee, with a cap at the top. > > If you don't have hammer traps you will likely get water hammer. Hammer > traps do tend to fill up with water as the air entrapped in them gradually > becomes absorbed into the water. If you have hammer traps, and you don't have water hammer, you wouldn't have water hammer if you didn't have them. Air chamber hammer traps simply don't work. They're full of water, and not air, in a few days to a few weeks, depending on the usage, the water pressure, and pipe sizes. Once they're full of water, their only purpose is to grow bacteria. Even when they're newly drained, they're invariably too small. Water hammer is prevented by using proper pipe design to keep flow rates below about 5 feet per second, and by keeping branches as short as possible. If you meed an arrestor, use a mechanical one sized for the job. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Nov 8 10:36:29 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E7642584B2E for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2014 10:36:29 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-po-08v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-po-08v.sys.comcast.net [96.114.154.167]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C36C12584905 for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2014 10:13:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from resomta-po-08v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.232]) by resqmta-po-08v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id D5Gv1p00B516pyw015HM7G; Sat, 08 Nov 2014 17:17:21 +0000 Received: from [10.0.0.3] ([98.247.129.48]) by resomta-po-08v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id D5HL1p00E12niAi015HLsb; Sat, 08 Nov 2014 17:17:21 +0000 Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2014 09:17:20 -0800 From: Mike User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.2.0 To: shop Talk References: <20141105233933.8P0Z3.118976.root@cdptpa-web03> <545B8E36.4000104@comcast.net> s=q20140121; t=1415467041; bh=lbzfU2VquHM2DTMDWkceA6SF4m66YGkILb8E8Lz147U=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:Subject: Content-Type; b=wsh9XZ4pXjDHAWq7irUhwhDQtrgyZKINkEB6bB58RDQxE7c9iGIyiaf/4Nvpaz3a1 cJWKLXzKcfyp3uhV3C+OSAqc2ZKmreTPsNZg6fcizZrEMbiUtKjmc35RPmP3fAKznB mKobbVR6C/OhpIu31H2FCgXl4rGRwi7plsvXGe5eLvWldqma44XubRFSZfyO9UnoeK 9XyrFIxODq7tJ0rHIIzu2BFkAk5edqfgf2Sf0KW5C7fbSBTRia9EMHIGAiMU4QKAOx Wx+l14GUJzjeGGvTwxUmyADZKh6fU9pHXQCGJVcF0GLyBx3EnK6NtpSVtQzhKlsuwn iUtF+kEtvpWKw== Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] led security lighting vrs incandescent` Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Just what you need: http://www.gocomics.com/speedbump/2014/11/07 _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Nov 16 13:39:22 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 331262580A07 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 13:39:22 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from filter04.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net (filter04.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net [199.224.80.234]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3483D25807DD for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 13:39:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by filter04.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1830728F1A9 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 20:42:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from relay03.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net ([199.224.80.246]) by localhost (filter04.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net [199.224.80.234]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id kVSA3PyKHm7y for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 20:42:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unknown [50.34.126.220]) by relay03.dlls.pa.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 679B49405B for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 20:42:33 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 12:43:33 -0800 From: Dave Cavanaugh User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 To: shop Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] direct burial Cat 5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I have been fighting with getting Wifi out to my shop building for years. It's about 100 feet from the main house, and it's a metal pole barn so I have to have the Wifi receiver in a window. I am about ready to run a hard wire out to the building and was wondering if anyone had any experience with direct burial CAT 5 or 6 wire. I would probably run it in a shallow trench and the total run including snaking it around the house and out to the shop would probably be about 150 feet at the most. I would probably just jam in into a shallow slot in the dirt cut with a shovel or spade. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Nov 16 14:58:07 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D97A25844E9 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 14:58:07 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.69]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D13132580405 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 14:57:58 -0700 (MST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=PhVwdMDBx5Ki70s1CefvnzWRdnpH6IT+cQMifan+AygGe16mWmZvxMMNXE/VX6GW; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [172.10.156.7] (helo=[192.168.1.3]) by elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Xq7sz-000651-8G; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 17:01:33 -0500 Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 14:01:01 -0800 From: Brian Kemp User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 To: Dave Cavanaugh , shop Talk References: <54690C75.8030809@frontier.com> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] direct burial Cat 5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net If I did it, I'd run it in PVC conduit. 1/2" conduit is cheap and may even offset the extra cost of direct burial cable. I'd be concerned about a rock or rodent damaging the cable over time. If you are doing any future digging, the conduit will also prevent a single push of the shovel from cutting the cable. There are narrow trenching shovels that make trenches easier than a standard shovel. Brian On 11/16/2014 12:43 PM, Dave Cavanaugh wrote: > I have been fighting with getting Wifi out to my shop building for > years. It's about 100 feet from the main house, and it's a metal pole > barn so I have to have the Wifi receiver in a window. I am about > ready to run a hard wire out to the building and was wondering if > anyone had any experience with direct burial CAT 5 or 6 wire. I would > probably run it in a shallow trench and the total run including > snaking it around the house and out to the shop would probably be > about 150 feet at the most. I would probably just jam in into a > shallow slot in the dirt cut with a shovel or spade. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Nov 16 15:00:43 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15F5D25844C3 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 15:00:43 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ie0-f172.google.com (mail-ie0-f172.google.com [209.85.223.172]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9EBE25807DD for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 15:00:36 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-ie0-f172.google.com with SMTP id ar1so6178812iec.3 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 14:04:11 -0800 (PST) h=sender:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=j/U2WQpfGP6IGJSkKUJQQiG0xfgXMWJKk4/j8TrkUQ8=; b=v7bAWQPZPsIjJWdsjQGAqWJEw9Z6B8XoYJxzuRJa/uEOfLvFr63EmIElZcUgqBXheP 3sTyabJbbm8hBzBN1YBeNT9ODWGE/WhswCSuv4n80ssYrSffbQ6bW745L8rj3Y035Pk3 BgMTroA90HZxqExNVTS/zt477jnR2+XdxbBoW8IB3WGMk01rpxa2foXpRRgGf2PMXuf1 6rFU7cEYdG0Me2GhTV2dlGe0/I98QbIv9OwC0C7IHxhDcu1IXnXhprDIB9pH98RW7r51 UQB3Yb2syN1T2eDGvrx6Qv/c2chM7E4vAVa63XgbmtTaytWjWJQpMg7jhgIif6Kc9/bM pEpQ== hu9mr23764683icc.27.1416175451540; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 14:04:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.2.135] (192-0-135-19.cpe.teksavvy.com. [192.0.135.19]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id kw5sm4995445igb.20.2014.11.16.14.04.09 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 16 Nov 2014 14:04:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 17:03:57 -0500 From: Trevor Boicey User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.2.0 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <54690C75.8030809@frontier.com> <54691E9D.5030605@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] direct burial Cat 5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I ran plain old CAT5 outside for years. My plan was "throw it on the bare ground, replace when it stops working". Has not stopped working yet. It's not a safety hazard if it shorts out so not a lot to lose. (Unless you need to be able to call 911 using VOIP when you are pinned under failed jackstands) On 16/11/2014 5:01 PM, Brian Kemp wrote: > If I did it, I'd run it in PVC conduit. 1/2" conduit is cheap and may > even offset the extra cost of direct burial cable. I'd be concerned > about a rock or rodent damaging the cable over time. If you are doing > any future digging, the conduit will also prevent a single push of the > shovel from cutting the cable. > > There are narrow trenching shovels that make trenches easier than a > standard shovel. > > Brian > > On 11/16/2014 12:43 PM, Dave Cavanaugh wrote: >> I have been fighting with getting Wifi out to my shop building for >> years. It's about 100 feet from the main house, and it's a metal >> pole barn so I have to have the Wifi receiver in a window. I am >> about ready to run a hard wire out to the building and was wondering >> if anyone had any experience with direct burial CAT 5 or 6 wire. I >> would probably run it in a shallow trench and the total run including >> snaking it around the house and out to the shop would probably be >> about 150 feet at the most. I would probably just jam in into a >> shallow slot in the dirt cut with a shovel or spade. >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk@autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13@earthlink.net > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/trevor.boicey@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Nov 17 03:20:50 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF9E72584AE7 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 03:20:49 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from dogbert2.mail.megageek.com (nj-69-34-94-16.sta.embarqhsd.net [69.34.94.16]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B44B25844C9 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 03:20:06 -0700 (MST) To: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net From: eric@megageek.com Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 05:08:48 -0500 7.0.1|January 17, 2006) at 11/17/2014 05:08:53, Serialize complete at 11/17/2014 05:08:53 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] direct burial Cat 5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Dave asks about direct burial Cat 5 I had three separate runs of direct burial and the problem I kept having was lighting killing my equipment on one or both ends. They make special lighting arresters for this purpose, but it was easier for me to use wireless to the remote buildings then spend the money on them. I have plenty of direct bury cat 5 cable left, if you are in the NJ area. YMMV Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Nov 17 19:03:20 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C48025844CA for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 19:03:20 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-ch2-05v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-05v.sys.comcast.net [69.252.207.37]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5A6625804CB for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 19:03:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from resomta-ch2-03v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.99]) by resqmta-ch2-05v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id Gq6A1p00B29Cfhx01q6lG8; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 02:06:45 +0000 Received: from [192.168.0.118] ([76.21.64.167]) by resomta-ch2-03v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id Gq6j1p00W3cWj0U01q6k7t; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 02:06:45 +0000 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 18:06:42 -0800 From: Mark Miller User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.5.0 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net, Dave Cavanaugh s=q20140121; t=1416276405; bh=Sz2Rr5q0isXvsPPBeI1SaOw0Ixn7X/9NgYC5pNPOpxs=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:MIME-Version:To: Subject:Content-Type; b=NZJQi5r95fSnmk8ffhTTEVqLOkFuYEmgmwl7TjQToDrCqvJTPHv/bTBcwS+JqtqBm jhAMHX8Cd1W0BeuCV8cvjeq/424WwtZA8gJ/tOJEBfGh/Ytzz2o22Vk6wVU8A2m7As qcy9gkbUTVUFnYmpErxoyUZ3YQrOXgf1V2kuiXgnDcfo3JPBId//uGjRQYc0CXL2qz Ej78blkmfLj6ZBA+O/xt0TRsGpIFYU5fNFSgD1Bx2ZBz5Bh6KIYrBKQtOsvHHHhGYv 2gKrtI1MtOnV6j3k5kpLUafBcgRLppjqjq6g33dhIHAhEtdyIOAU+VwgItfQF9/lt4 0XqzOaFI0NyNQ== Subject: [Shop-talk] direct burial Cat 5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net <<< I have been fighting with getting Wifi out to my shop building for years. It's about 100 feet from the main house, and it's a metal pole barn so I have to have the Wifi receiver in a window. I am about ready to run a hard wire out to the building and was wondering if anyone had any experience with direct burial CAT 5 or 6 wire. I would probably run it in a shallow trench and the total run including snaking it around the house and out to the shop would probably be about 150 feet at the most. I would probably just jam in into a shallow slot in the dirt cut with a shovel or spade. >>> This sounds like a great fit for powerline Ethernet. Much easier (and probably not very different in price once you deal with the wire, various jacks and connections, etc.) and less dirt under your fingernails. Here's one: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=7670960&CatId=211 -- Regards, Mark Miller markmiller@threeboysfarm.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Nov 18 05:31:43 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A07B2580963 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 05:31:43 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ie0-f176.google.com (mail-ie0-f176.google.com [209.85.223.176]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D066F2580457 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 05:31:32 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-ie0-f176.google.com with SMTP id ar1so1827453iec.7 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 04:35:08 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc :content-type; bh=69HSG4iItjIHx9C60t+WOjOVB+b4lh+ySCiRQjTF3bk=; b=fRkriAOaBzSsnO1rd089XqidAYv/HYcQ0WMbKVTHETU6ht8L4yUOltvz/CmuqIQtTw U+tTzsDQXaCoakB/4VS0Xp6vtSsD3Tg2iTqUm9ZhfMxdvUmq1j3TNnJHoc/3Rt3D6OQ2 54blExI24e9bAb+FZrSvi1NpSpdMP7Y3ukXYC7MrLpc8oqzKGffjn+YRC08yqnkoq+C5 BOntE8kN8rugo3rZ6N5G4/a3Plo/Oi+wuuPkoY/60W5+Y21+AzJZyDQ3gSuVU1fa9HXl hgH/S7KBwS4zekaII3pwyTMXZpfcsoTVRD4lfwVYg3H8WrKXnW1NC+81LuSmap7nCCgW HkFg== Tue, 18 Nov 2014 04:35:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.50.233.2 with HTTP; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 04:35:08 -0800 (PST) References: <546AA9B2.2020607@threeboysfarm.com> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 07:35:08 -0500 From: Jeff Scarbrough Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] direct burial Cat 5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 9:06 PM, Mark Miller wrote: > This sounds like a great fit for powerline Ethernet. Much easier (and > probably not very different in price once you deal with the wire, various > jacks and connections, etc.) and less dirt under your fingernails. This can be a good solution, but if your shop is like mine, fed from a different transformer, this probably won't work. As for the OP, perhaps a better antenna connected to the WiFi receiver would help? Or an extension cord for the existing antenna, so it can be put outside the window? Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Nov 18 05:56:41 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D6A325844CA for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 05:56:41 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from BLU004-OMC2S19.hotmail.com (blu004-omc2s19.hotmail.com [65.55.111.94]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0C4B2580457 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 05:56:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from BLU180-W61 ([65.55.111.73]) by BLU004-OMC2S19.hotmail.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.22751); Tue, 18 Nov 2014 05:00:09 -0800 From: "Tim ." To: Shop Talk Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 07:00:08 -0600 References: <546AA9B2.2020607@threeboysfarm.com>, FILETIME=[94E92D00:01D0032F] Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] direct burial Cat 5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net "Powerline Ethernet" The write up says "Consumes only 0.5 watts of power in stand-by mode." Wonder how high this goes under high usage. But I really wonder is how this would do in an old house that still have knob and tube in some spots..... tim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Nov 18 20:18:40 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A2552584600 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 20:18:40 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-pd0-f179.google.com (mail-pd0-f179.google.com [209.85.192.179]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFACC2580A18 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 20:18:27 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-pd0-f179.google.com with SMTP id w10so413832pde.10 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 19:22:04 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=9GffmHq11+zOtvSbfKBy7VWDCVPd7RCW6/61lC5N8Fw=; b=L1IoOe4XAa7e5aa9EwL0FAWRXWiW82IHOlFxuTPUUEaEJzPOxaoqHqPrblDif65ny/ yM2UowU2lRJXOftOiXaMAMv11qHprvUGvn0S9qz57y23oSbGZMbOLQGKoAaF28MfYwFA EQalvjK/LRGvTEriCAyszvlApX1o3nwVIPQwq0wNikW+gePO4BbDlx8+BZsaNTEp1Es0 /dxVyRfU/8yM8X1xFh6kpf+6Z1xtjlT5TNjhCk99jL5NDJg79hW3g4JEHnDTMD1z4GfR c/AH4jc3qkNbIozPAkiyVlzr6f/BncGKFuMdafO2TosNUogiT0xuJwmNTTfP1ZDILd+G NcKg== w12mr16157324pdi.151.1416367324132; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 19:22:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.70.96.141 with HTTP; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 19:22:04 -0800 (PST) References: <546AA9B2.2020607@threeboysfarm.com> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 21:22:04 -0600 From: David Scheidt To: "Tim ." , shop-talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] direct burial Cat 5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 7:00 AM, Tim . wrote: > "Powerline Ethernet" The write up says "Consumes only 0.5 watts of power in > stand-by mode." Wonder how high this goes under high usage. The one I watched with a meter used about 2 watts averaged out over a few days. I didn't watch for power use under load, though. But I really > wonder is how this would do in an old house that still have knob and tube in > some spots..... tim There's no reason they wouldn't work. They work by putting a number of high frequency carriers on the cable, which should be passed fine by any safe electrical wiring. They won't make it across a transformer. Assuming the OPs shop and house share a meter, it would be on my list ahead of digging a trench. So would a point-to-point wireless setup. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Nov 23 10:49:23 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 402202580870 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 10:49:23 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qc0-f173.google.com (mail-qc0-f173.google.com [209.85.216.173]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A73F25807B0 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 10:49:12 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-qc0-f173.google.com with SMTP id i17so5862172qcy.4 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 09:52:51 -0800 (PST) s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=69LODiKVRtaFWEA9aAtkoSfyE8LVEZaFiDvu498JN9g=; b=0Zpgcyq2JOmBB8eFjXsWtHaVsliqrQWlGrmOsjWUjnGpxHteUeVTjr9AH/wyykBE0B W83Tgr4Qu+0n+jGbOY6MTuDevWx5f0ip0RW6I/6iQmqh73Ql6oS8oGUwJfahScq2D9pe gspvkzpGkdlbvJLRRW/8Wk21f4524dtqdlXVNp+btTvoYIoD526qk1nGdLoefHRcotv8 EZPj3Osc+fFRHcjvaEY2JXdWn+LWRjAjHfTBJwRww3AGhPpW/mXhAxizIPCQVtaVsgje SeOLHzs6N7tuHFSh1ejrVKxA87RQbVqIVMHMMkwzS1QYyKkw3n5Y/zesfEflOqdy1Dm1 O5dg== o96mr22936218qga.47.1416765171794; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 09:52:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.2.6] (c-98-230-28-47.hsd1.fl.comcast.net. [98.230.28.47]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id s19sm9916488qay.6.2014.11.23.09.52.51 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 23 Nov 2014 09:52:51 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 12:52:51 -0500 From: Scott User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 To: Shop-Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] The air compressor to have now Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net It's time for a new compressor. I also want it to be the last one I buy. I remember the last time I did this (maybe ten, fifteen years ago), it was an Ingersoll Rand T-something. T-10, T-55, I thought it was similarly named to a Russian tank, for some reason. Anyway, If you were buying one today, which would it be? I've got the space for anything, and I'd like to never even have to think about running out of air again. Not running a shop, but I'll paint with it, and run a blast cabinet with it. Thanks guys. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Nov 23 13:07:09 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44DD2258449B for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 13:07:09 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ob0-f180.google.com (mail-ob0-f180.google.com [209.85.214.180]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AAE42580B26 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 13:06:59 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-ob0-f180.google.com with SMTP id wp4so6219649obc.39 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 12:10:39 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=2AYE6RWmzlvdkiVcwO9WfyViAh2w7eJEUpYK8Qlo/gM=; b=VKASND8AL4u6u4cQcFEkBup8RGdJAS762BepXFsUz21TahMg35RF7h3QaPl21bKbPo 0mFuzIeifJpwbGXM+i8dTq6p/m9Z6U15ng2623gIBdJXvKjmfGaVcjaxt0mSmDzzF4Y5 sEFYzG5NaQdjKNNh1k+zU9XXJ+MwbLM4bONJ0c4v8mI04/Exvx0+Ppc4dOKGgf/uvH9Q b9wwjO4vm9otlmFaJt+Eap5LUpCbxz8YQbfo5pStCy6orxKKZR/sk46vUTHaeamQVwcY RMLf7n4toR4SR/a/LKxiiGQZ7sezlnx4qZESCzH+UQUpBcdmgUQL6gFzrb0x4GODyekf IBVg== b5mr8733148oih.120.1416773439254; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 12:10:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.202.106.131 with HTTP; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 12:10:39 -0800 (PST) References: <54721EF3.4040207@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 14:10:39 -0600 From: Ronnie Day To: Scott , Shop Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] The air compressor to have now Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net TP Tools has some good info on their site, and their products looks pretty good. You might check out autobodyshop.com, too. That said, I'd determine what I need then look at Home Depot, Lowes and Northern Tools, if there's one near you. Compare prices and warranties. In this case, I think a big box store is good for long term, local service, And I expect the prices to be good due to volume of sales. You're very likely to get the best prices next weekend. Ron On Sunday, November 23, 2014, Scott wrote: > It's time for a new compressor. I also want it to be the last one I buy. > > I remember the last time I did this (maybe ten, fifteen years ago), it was > an Ingersoll Rand T-something. T-10, T-55, I thought it was similarly named > to a Russian tank, for some reason. > > Anyway, If you were buying one today, which would it be? I've got the > space for anything, and I'd like to never even have to think about running > out of air again. Not running a shop, but I'll paint with it, and run a > blast cabinet with it. > > Thanks guys. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/ > options/shop-talk/ronnie.day@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Nov 23 15:30:26 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F4F32584D26 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 15:30:26 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qg0-f43.google.com (mail-qg0-f43.google.com [209.85.192.43]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02ED12584D16 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 15:30:15 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-qg0-f43.google.com with SMTP id q108so6101456qgd.30 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 14:33:54 -0800 (PST) h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type; bh=+ZXdrHM3DAzeib1pIllz8yGQCKm4VLtEG7lxTrfw+OE=; b=s78KMBSmXHSS51jO0Cz3YtFk/GpmoeqXfmXZkCWLtxE5a5v4W8xBNE5pxpbeAZLfcT e7ksawTRS9G5MPAXdXvavCTQEJ/Vo6f0A+JKRm3ek5bFqK0SoxY0dDpj9wXIxBzMdrqZ PD/ffXiFbU8q/EAkeZYVep/OGstgrmJCzfG4X1eBj7u1SLZQtX6gzkrE4U8hFNnAQo96 TUrp54/z0b0aR+VR/K5NNUL/GyRjKINhwSCwJUCqZojgIUHT6Jy//x0ry3DPjEhs7JTK NQlzd8dP3ggYeKqJH82XFse+bgyRbGFfiqhIsBAP/SUK+TL72LwBj4rNv83Abf03QR+O PQQQ== kh2mr24411645qcb.10.1416782034870; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 14:33:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.2.6] (c-98-230-28-47.hsd1.fl.comcast.net. [98.230.28.47]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id b20sm10398482qaw.3.2014.11.23.14.33.54 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 23 Nov 2014 14:33:54 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 17:33:54 -0500 From: Scott User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 To: Shop Talk List References: <54721EF3.4040207@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] The air compressor to have now Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I probably should have been more specific: I'm looking for a two-stage, 220v, at least 60-gallon-tank (and really that's 80 gallons unless there's something about the 60 that's ideal, and bigger-than-80 would be nice). I remember that a specific model of I-R was the favorite back when I couldn't justify the purchase. Now I can, so I'm upgrading. On 11/23/2014 3:10 PM, Ronnie Day wrote: > TP Tools has some good info on their site, and their products looks > pretty good. You might check out autobodyshop.com > , too. That said, I'd determine what I need > then look at Home Depot, Lowes and Northern Tools, if there's one near > you. Compare prices and warranties. In this case, I think a big box > store is good for long term, local service, And I expect the prices to > be good due to volume of sales. > > You're very likely to get the best prices next weekend. > > Ron > > On Sunday, November 23, 2014, Scott > It's time for a new compressor. I also want it to be the last one > I buy. > > I remember the last time I did this (maybe ten, fifteen years > ago), it was an Ingersoll Rand T-something. T-10, T-55, I thought > it was similarly named to a Russian tank, for some reason. > > Anyway, If you were buying one today, which would it be? I've got > the space for anything, and I'd like to never even have to think > about running out of air again. Not running a shop, but I'll paint > with it, and run a blast cabinet with it. > > Thanks guys. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Nov 23 19:13:59 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0B302584D2F for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 19:13:59 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm23-vm9.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm23-vm9.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [216.109.115.168]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAA6F25804C2 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 19:13:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from [66.196.81.165] by nm23.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Nov 2014 02:17:27 -0000 Received: from [66.196.81.139] by tm11.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Nov 2014 02:17:27 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1015.access.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Nov 2014 02:17:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 84686 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Nov 2014 02:17:26 -0000 s=s1024; t=1416795446; bh=KK8/ipLXxO9JAHWwVi19MqT44jrQ6Ix2QFPn9RbRbpQ=; h=References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=JYWO85wDTBH1lV4LjYqE5JN/gQS/uzsOJ+nJf5cGaZqA0ly4BALG0+o/48j14b+vi3CIXp31whw4DGiW1jAvXC/LT3WuM0YZmulqqO2WNfkZMJUhw3Cue1iH0LInjNbDAjxJ6i+LGJdE7LuCnyf6uH+ZOXPL8wIfQTGYtrB/h5c= EoKD6qiiGreaZLys1ETzrrqC5FX.5rzH2goS4EOSqHiRjAnhiuyIAhgZGTPC BitT1Th3eDFZgNQhgI9gJrZcfsuF4MZyM2.yPOs2qSIJdsMV0HKa9Y3hyq4O LR8JVYQ7npDPGVo0y_kZm_dl2hX0aIZvQbJCcpGTnE9cU4LGL2f69QwvYPZY S8Lu1th0MfLt6wJsF_maYHM13x2bvgQYijEl_foGDyZC32fOVsZ82BwA5okI IvnCLRASyKA776cnFEgn0i2KvSuHg7CgZUCr6gMxdINzUxbreGgSzQXhTvwV aav5Wa6vU56rmjM6Ctm5yBsdYhUQTF3346VRxs315YuT8zqRdXgWzXCfqBz1 _LM46EwaLfNJPMmnlOVo98v.l9sA8.QI7qpd.yfdIC6hQc9fY4X8szJ6Kcqv aPmbnW0zgqsv1non5OsVcvA5ULYVTZMe8YA7mqHzHk1U_KvEXNL8F3gFy1vd RkpX5KAPNGVDAponaeQpLGA8TBvWHRDQbbu2kexi7YM2gcvsd2xRrzCed0bt OguRXT8G4uK2ARkBLS2K7weTN0aGg9DbFcWGjILLbXPxSpP4gt8uGw_PG8Z5 Af52DdCWZlbP6P1w3h3JegMzVWdG.YxwirM_B7RbFOHEkdBa1hv5PubjgrpB RrTHQTv6oq6jitvNVZVAAtbUGplON13BFakKPrZ6vpHN7QvwJPNzGfpyHdkI WAGg7RczNRhz8ZhYh1.r9.mxF9Cl1phAXs36lWwH_o4b_weCepfxDlBS3puO SGAM.CPrpy0s8qcs- Received: from [108.196.188.20] by web181303.mail.ne1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 18:17:26 PST VGhpcyBpcyAidGhlIGJlc3QiIHR3byBzdGFnZSA3LjUgSFAgY29tcHJlc3NvciBvbiB0aGUgbWFya2V0OgoKaHR0cDovL3d3dy5wYWNpZmljYWlyY29tcHJlc3NvcnMuY29tL2NvbXByZXNzb3ItY2hhbXBpb24tSFJWNy04LTFQLmh0bQoKCkkgYW0ganVzdCB3YWl0aW5nIGZvciBtaW5lIHRvIGRpZSBzbyBJIGNhbiBqdXN0aWZ5IGJ1eWluZyBpdC4KClRoZSBrZXkgaXMgdGhhdCBpdCBoYXMgYSBwdW1wIHRoYXQgb25seSBydW5zIGF0IDU3NSBSUE0gKC5lLmcuLCBhIG5pY2UgdGh1bXAsIHRodW1wLCB0aHVtcCABMAEBAQE- References: <54721EF3.4040207@gmail.com> <547260D2.9060004@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 18:17:26 -0800 From: old dirtbeard To: Scott , Shop Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] The air compressor to have now Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is "the best" two stage 7.5 HP compressor on the market: http://www.pacificaircompressors.com/compressor-champion-HRV7-8-1P.htm I am just waiting for mine to die so I can justify buying it. The key is that it has a pump that only runs at 575 RPM (.e.g., a nice thump, thump, thump like a Gold Star on low idle) driven by a quality 31 amp Baldor motor running at 1725 RPM. It outputs 26 CFM, but it is the same pump that is used on the much larger compressors except that the pump runs slower for the 7.5 HP motor. The pump and motor really should run forever (just compare the pump speeds on comparable compressors). best, doug ________________ '72 BSA B50SS '74 Moto Guzzi 850T '01 HD XHL 883 '03 GMC Cargo Van '07 Aprilia SXV 550 '13 Aprilia Tuono V4R ________________________________ From: Scott To: Shop Talk List Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2014 2:33 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] The air compressor to have now I probably should have been more specific: I'm looking for a two-stage, 220v, at least 60-gallon-tank (and really that's 80 gallons unless there's something about the 60 that's ideal, and bigger-than-80 would be nice). I remember that a specific model of I-R was the favorite back when I couldn't justify the purchase. Now I can, so I'm upgrading. On 11/23/2014 3:10 PM, Ronnie Day wrote: > TP Tools has some good info on their site, and their products looks > pretty good. You might check out autobodyshop.com > , too. That said, I'd determine what I need > then look at Home Depot, Lowes and Northern Tools, if there's one near > you. Compare prices and warranties. In this case, I think a big box > store is good for long term, local service, And I expect the prices to > be good due to volume of sales. > > You're very likely to get the best prices next weekend. > > Ron > > On Sunday, November 23, 2014, Scott > It's time for a new compressor. I also want it to be the last one > I buy. > > I remember the last time I did this (maybe ten, fifteen years > ago), it was an Ingersoll Rand T-something. T-10, T-55, I thought > it was similarly named to a Russian tank, for some reason. > > Anyway, If you were buying one today, which would it be? I've got > the space for anything, and I'd like to never even have to think > about running out of air again. Not running a shop, but I'll paint > with it, and run a blast cabinet with it. > > Thanks guys. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Nov 23 23:37:44 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B9022584DEC for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 23:37:44 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from bradakis.com (50-198-190-18-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.198.190.18]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 859712584470 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 23:37:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from bradakis.com (50-198-190-18-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.198.190.18]) by bradakis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 122342C052B for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 23:41:15 -0700 (MST) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 23:41:15 -0700 From: Mark J Bradakis User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:33.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/33.0 SeaMonkey/2.30 To: Shop-Talk References: <54721EF3.4040207@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] The air compressor to have now Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I was thinking my big one was an IR, but I just looked, it is a Devilbiss Pro 4000, 60 gallon unit. I've been happy with it, it served me well for many years. I don't have 220 in the garage so I have not run it since I moved out of the shop some years ago. I should make sure it still works someday. Maybe a long extension cord from the 220 box that feed the A/C compressor. mjb. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Nov 24 19:24:47 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6813E2584569 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 19:24:47 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-pa0-f48.google.com (mail-pa0-f48.google.com [209.85.220.48]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9E2025844A0 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 19:24:36 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-pa0-f48.google.com with SMTP id rd3so10760535pab.35 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 18:28:17 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=ioekRf2XFw0N7TvcK8Tp7QPbtyDAyPzVS1/icVYh+yY=; b=knR3ZlxQMo1FER9wHqkfbUl+vgQNyUviLpD3jjrs8rgH+u13lBdtCGEgTD5w0ljDWp ynAMIRpoKtS4IJ6oiNoBFjAWtpgw70dcc9hjGohzQ2NIghvjA57BH+w1MyvXGIe7fALN 4eT+2ImRH8n28PjeS2SUPlOk0I8l0x4XIWa8n9QBJKW9Py66VvfxMfAM/Pa6vzOdLZR3 QgbfP5Vs/tDX1A96qpdvpwIOQSNDzKfjjTv+ER8xJsO17KQpEA/u0z98OUXpEIVkSZSB bXQwgS7kfDvTbHVWwe58vzqUugOdIkzk5KrgzXFn55wIqnD0lxwVZ+CjGbCauPgLrvVu MeHA== km8mr39750941pab.100.1416882497101; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 18:28:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.70.96.141 with HTTP; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 18:28:17 -0800 (PST) References: <54721EF3.4040207@gmail.com> <547260D2.9060004@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 20:28:17 -0600 From: David Scheidt To: Scott , shop-talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] The air compressor to have now Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 4:33 PM, Scott wrote: > I probably should have been more specific: > > I'm looking for a two-stage, 220v, at least 60-gallon-tank (and really > that's 80 gallons unless there's something about the 60 that's ideal, > and bigger-than-80 would be nice). There's no reason not to get an 80 gallon tank except for money or space restrictions, in a shop where you're going to have intermittent high demand. If you're in an industrial setting, with a defined constant load, smaller tanks make sense. Champion and Quincy are the two companies that seem to be still making top quality stuff in the US. IRs quality has apparently taken a dip. A shop I used to run had a 7.5 HP champion, and two 5 HP quincy pumps (built or rebuilt by a local shop on different tanks, one of those may have been something else, and just looked like the quincy.). One of the 5HP was lead pump, the 7.5 cut in if pressure dropped below something (120?) and the other 5HP came in as lag if the pressure fell further (and then took over as lead). We had problems with the control electronics and the automatic drains, but not with the pumps. (the big air consumer there was the car wash, which had an incredible demand.) If you want one that will last for ever, get a pressure lubricated pump, and run it at the lowest speed and pressure possible. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Nov 30 15:50:26 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FE5925844CE for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 15:50:26 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm9-vm9.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (nm9-vm9.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [216.39.63.247]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E73932580965 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 15:50:13 -0700 (MST) s=s1024; t=1417388038; bh=McRJLyBFx29ZE60QYnMJmOucnp6a+SJNou0QWGWf+Is=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=iYDDCB/dIUDHtmAR+rUyMlYyCxva/06SrUITP7ZsQ2ICchnBkptp2xKA8z8DYv/245LRv+IURAtIE8lbqMTDP7+NOhSDQOXJLozmJGkSfocJCZhGN+OhIzhzWaUqF78Il6zK6UquCKpwwCt6jbi/FYN4XyBLb0CZE2d9OguhVMY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=ameritech.net; b=JluQni/QvE5GpgWCj4lNmL1KzsbYU6bWIoyrwr5rRRYXr1Xc8U7FJDJaKNSVlfQHKH4SqI13dqqHGJWDtV6OHCrJI5lPjpyehP3kfo+dSC9V8I1fOFyneNE8IyICM1KgD38W13qiAV/dliCPU1kFgYd2fcvgcZiCVGWsP73zHgo=; Received: from [216.39.60.170] by nm9.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Nov 2014 22:53:58 -0000 Received: from [98.138.226.240] by tm6.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Nov 2014 22:53:58 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp111.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Nov 2014 22:53:58 -0000 m_bdLIxeXVrTNQ5xN.sGuYiVCteOHVRY658MduqwnySNx.DfTP45FEe8GTIK yjGyUC8WNB02RLVQoW9eDLwfXUdWrEqjk.j7oMjeUSGdHuIWrR28CFj.NfI6 2PZ2UMlUTRc7MMUCtwkMI46YKwF.YXUypw0dNMzKXMnZbVuKW4yfGwCMN11l BckbB5DX4QgxRSou1SBNkZs0sBfOzeIFstQ336RaZqr7df6DS6F5.zeag5qF XskG6kuqijIY98kgENFp1EsF0LCHf0yQneI36V145d5ktsS.oKvrYEHm2itp sIhsQpcFsBqaa6Jzl_2Q0ig0.U2t3dOcZ_QfjW4e8UNq13Ms0Q84VM7M8urs plVONABLGw_JZKzJLrAGo7j8cNurYzM1n.oUeal8fQeW3MYDQGd5c5ClFqM3 hZjd1wvT8Jf_M.K1SOdBwLN8Z3w5cuc0Evy._.2pOVm97dctmYeZfuTZ1qIA _T3_sZDQPMqYfhI67rAsxhHT.TjuOAhpZVbewpIfsVGU.A240DA-- From: "Karl Vacek" To: Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 16:53:57 -0600 Thread-Index: AdAM72uBgZVyklFbTUOIms7RDGO2Dg== Content-Language: en-us Subject: [Shop-talk] Cable ties Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Once again I've bought bad cable ties. Decades ago cable ties all seemed to be good, but nowadays that's not so. NAPA used to carry decent (if expensive) ones, but they've changed now. The ones got from Monoprice were so weak that I threw them away. Then I bought a large assortment of G-B ties, and they too pop without warning under minimal tension. I think they're actually failing in the buckle, whereas the ones from Monoprice just snapped. Horrible Freight sells ties that may even be worse than either Monoprice of G-B. Is there a good, reliable brand or source for cable ties that can be tightened decently, hold tight, and stand up to weather, etc.? I don't want a bargain - just a good reliable source. Thank you! Karl _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Nov 30 15:59:49 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1C4925844F8 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 15:59:49 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm4-vm2.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm4-vm2.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [216.109.114.113]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86A3B2580965 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 15:58:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from [66.196.81.155] by nm4.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Nov 2014 23:02:38 -0000 Received: from [66.196.81.137] by tm1.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Nov 2014 23:02:38 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1013.access.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Nov 2014 23:02:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 10347 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Nov 2014 23:02:37 -0000 s=s1024; t=1417388557; bh=IQc9CHvj16rc+ERhjOa905Ak8OQM+KvjBNsG/vYvkeE=; h=References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=XGmYmtj/SyoX7Vl6VOMZWu+MyABjTkbaUOzNSoV8mvBucjJzP7hCZhAPzbjTC1s6+HtY2W59M7Pnll1p2hk+8l7LeZd1idahp5W1JTZrpPju4AY4cPF7mLL8Ni3qx0cLgXzfoOrtOrgovNLVhNPTt4I9Y72EJt72jdC2RB/zMiM= RQ2PFa_VlFsIDU7eYGlKxRxJIi2Kr1WhpgvHMK980ZzdEY3pVhiG8nBUE3jB hEE6kj1gLeRrKqWdDANHObEH6fV.cHI8O8MOonpxvH3hdeGiARcnaMtGOGG4 HPqyRJMcBIRQd7Voqf3Z9iTg.bDKvc7bJYgMNhIhIhk.lQ9JZmGYRCiB.yDy coCCegxl6NFfTjeIdGBd8cIuSGZIbwIjURkRKkHIaEfxHGAib4yNBbB4iaQn pXEXVFRrrpIZJzMNMC9gfcyUwgjlbYoj_m6E509KD42QcB_RdAXFCqcy0CxK _6Aumh9VQAyC7rfQINfgyZtV3yPeH1Dmkglw4LD_imIxBBXlo_2Zx0yRvWOP cnVrlT37fQ4aVuCvmtypUtkAOP9gsljqZ6617moIk1w_4K8WQAHtjArx1VPJ e8JUtXQ1qOWX9q1Uwe3GMtBLuaWdiXFRFTaLsZX5frUAy3083fCIFplTt7xM OfJmgZBHtuuFvhPX0MWMdFnJ4F6dq82rqLT74BJVB8fSM1sFbZ94sUDC2ft1 K76vnNQP1l9d9ij8M.dsctugNpwFSOlKJks.5MHotxFVbmFPwB3RMD2qdkAF Zc5_ISdNE3bgS Received: from [66.143.52.254] by web184301.mail.ne1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 15:02:37 PST QWN0dWFsbHksIEkgaGF2ZSBnb29kIGx1Y2sgd2l0aCB0aGUgYmxhY2sgSGFyYm9yIEZyZWlnaHQgY2FibGUgdGllcy4gIE5ldmVyIHRoZSBjb2xvcmVkIG9uZXMuICBUaGUgY29sb3JlZCBvbmVzIHNlZW0gdG8gYmUgcHJvbmUgdG8gYnJlYWsgcHJldHR5IGVhc3kuICBJIGhhdmVuJ3QgdHJpZWQgdGhlIHdoaXRlIG9uZXMgYmVjYXVzZSBJIGFsd2F5cyBoYWQgZ29vZCBsdWNrIHdpdGggdGhlIGJsYWNrIG9uZXMgYW5kIHRoZXkgaGF2ZSBiZXR0ZXIgVVYgcmVzaXN0YW5jZS4gIAoKCgpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX18BMAEBAQE- References: <000c01d00cf0$871b6bf0$955243d0$@Ameritech.net> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 15:02:37 -0800 From: Rand E To: Karl Vacek , "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Cable ties Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Actually, I have good luck with the black Harbor Freight cable ties. Never the colored ones. The colored ones seem to be prone to break pretty easy. I haven't tried the white ones because I always had good luck with the black ones and they have better UV resistance. ________________________________ From: Karl Vacek To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2014 4:53 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] Cable ties Once again I've bought bad cable ties. Decades ago cable ties all seemed to be good, but nowadays that's not so. NAPA used to carry decent (if expensive) ones, but they've changed now. The ones got from Monoprice were so weak that I threw them away. Then I bought a large assortment of G-B ties, and they too pop without warning under minimal tension. I think they're actually failing in the buckle, whereas the ones from Monoprice just snapped. Horrible Freight sells ties that may even be worse than either Monoprice of G-B. Is there a good, reliable brand or source for cable ties that can be tightened decently, hold tight, and stand up to weather, etc.? I don't want a bargain - just a good reliable source. Thank you! Karl _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Nov 30 16:16:44 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 901582584755 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 16:16:44 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-po-04v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-po-04v.sys.comcast.net [96.114.154.163]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE52D25846D9 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 16:16:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from resomta-po-11v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.235]) by resqmta-po-04v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id MzLQ1p00154zqzk01zLQ2m; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 23:20:24 +0000 Received: from Dell2010Watson ([24.127.11.141]) by resomta-po-11v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id MzJN1p00f32bGuo01zJPAt; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 23:18:23 +0000 From: "Mark Watson" To: Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 18:18:21 -0500 s=q20140121; t=1417389624; bh=YXKOyDY7MV6t6XBd9DX9qWSxVHgCcZgskYrY0yMopxo=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=cdjkYBOSbjmz/zSwCiITCTHfasMn/PMVMXiRfYGstBZIvYRyEciuefirp7iWe5dIU zFiJOkTRHPlPFodmntq4wZoK9Dr0qD8wVrfSswyVq66H6aL03rGGXbKLeXOMyVo6RF 3POd9S3voT8/gTbnoYzMLVZfbFSVTomAXWKiIH3LnMMu+qHAk+1NxcD0O6Aw760Y+O dhise89DMyNNjA7qsBvlxJObWYj5lBguVyeyng3u3hM0lAEGPULV0Wpccl9HHewqea IUC56p/1l5M8EqrhHUvIPWuvbE9NQgawgTMz8t9O6TDKpLiAVoZdtgW1/dA6Jrzspx Q4fVRB/GcelNg== Subject: [Shop-talk] Coolant in Oil Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Folks, I'm appealing to the shop-talk group wisdom on this one. Earlier this year my in-laws gave us their 1995 Buick Century with the 3.1l V6. It was Grammy's car with only 105k miles - she can't drive anymore which is why we got it. It's I really good shape except for the coolant in the oil problem. When we got it the thermostat wasn't working so I put one in. After that it started losing coolant. The radiator had a leak at one tank seam (aluminum core with plastic tanks) so I replaced it. Still losing coolant but not externally - you guessed it - it was leaking into the oil. My final test before taking anything apart was to pressurize the cooling system with the oil drain plug removed and coolant basically ran out directly correlated to the pressure. Apparently this engine is known for having intake gasket issues. I pulled everything off and it doesn't look good. The oil looks like a gross milkshake. The question - I don't want to replace/rebuild the engine if I can help it. I figure if I can replace the gaskets (parts roughly $150, my labor - priceless) and get enough life out of it I'll be coming out ahead! Has anyone had any experience with flushing this gunk out of the engine? I searched the archives and the only other case was inconclusive as to what the poster did after getting answers. In searching the net I found this site: http://dannysengineportal.blogspot.com/2011/05/how-to-clean-engine-coolant-fromthe.html They advocate using an industrial solvent like this: "Mix a 2:1 solution of a commercially available cleaning solvent such as Butyl Cellosolve (Union Carbide), Downol E-13 (Dow Chemical), or Glycol Ether E-B (Chem Central) or equivalent with the enginebs recommended oil." When I search for Butyl Cellosolve it shows up most in rants against buying window or carpet cleaner with it. Of course I could care less about that. Two gallons with shipping would cost $60. Has anyone used the BG Flush products they sell at some shops? What I've read about them is to avoid them if you've been changing your oil - obviously not relevant to my situation! Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks Mark Watson 1956 Daimler (long term resto) 1965 Ford Falcon (getting back on road after trans replacement) various transportation pods (including this one ;-) _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Nov 30 16:22:15 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAFEA258472F for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 16:22:15 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm10-vm4.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm10-vm4.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [216.109.114.211]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69DE625800B5 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 16:22:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from [66.196.81.155] by nm10.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Nov 2014 23:25:54 -0000 Received: from [66.196.81.154] by tm1.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Nov 2014 23:25:54 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1030.access.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Nov 2014 23:25:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 91172 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Nov 2014 23:25:53 -0000 s=s1024; t=1417389953; bh=2m+ZmXXofl2HyvH0v8I/dlWE50XEEYFT70T49fMFSVo=; h=References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=re0ukGkqClYwgBXmjwGx8snhHph6E9MGJUqfBe/S5NPg0+U179EnXCs4x0hRGDZIqwG0wpoSWQhxEFAOPMpSAFyvejU8Pn7U93rwASi0DwWH/Av2PbHOTId+byW2cVQa5NxCAeGFTNN2uq++D4XzUKp1kFTh8jEVkr4IIXxhkQ0= YfRukOmfiBsfihR_GI4BsVUL5ZUBnGdeWcZ1T0JrOqY8cJehxN3nkNtRG6Ii K1DRgi9.BVN0uqVuQzzSZmU.2EFnwL49xwyqJ4f6NG5hxG_7QCl9CPSHnNDP 6LhZEbgq6Vd8vX.iIr48xCo2se8hKsZlWewLqqaTBt2GVdulZBnp0zvNrPTt vhe7n7Syo_CjxndP2yCDqJicucLnfdmyJZjTVlc57rKPNQG0Fgow3TW787Qg zwN2ZlWyHOwyHP.z8kTZyLw36vK9MtDCM54Az.LosWh.c4cku70kLNW9pgey 113oST5jORAPpBzn9OUUez.g91BF_47tlQE9JAU3KFBuiMdkWe.1.KNc.YXr oq4bTBsZWaxnP_tDCDj7sMYOsa4oRzdxQYrHcRflA9AqDqO4rxoLQbq57xMS X8i6LYjr_W5DxwMIx1mapDu6YT4dkGS.2tVRIfQ2aaOObLtVJsUGYyL1Xcgu _xXlNiwhufbw.2d38x2dToRm.ZBPHjbfwFsDeOeaaXynuPdYaTKBh9sk1IrC Y1YtFKoZQR99yLhIuCsd9ZWHsHyzxkjnz5xNNRhTN8J7MliJMVj9oqMB13hL voy9Mp53Zf.b6F2avxStaOYZrCPMSFwVrDXVEZllTQ000J8khB5pFihTO4Js - Received: from [128.125.208.94] by web181303.mail.ne1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 15:25:53 PST SGkgS2FybCwKCkkgc3RhcnRlZCBidXlpbmcgdGhlbSBmcm9tIE1jTWFzdGVyIHFod2V3IHlvdSBjYW4gY2hvb3NlIHRoZSB0ZW5zaWxlIHN0cmVuZ3RoIHlvdSB3YW50L25lZWQgIEV2ZW4gdGhlaXIgc3RhbmRhcmQgd2hpdGUgb25lcyBhcmUgdG91Z2ggZW5vdWdoIHRvIHVzZSB0byBtb3VudCBtb3RvcmN5Y2xlIHRpcmVzOgoKaHR0cDovL3d3dy5tY21hc3Rlci5jb20vI3ppcC10aWVzLz11dHByem0KCiAKYmVzdCwKCmRvdWcKX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXwonNzIgQlNBIEI1MFNTCic3NCBNb3RvIEd1enppIDgBMAEBAQE- References: <000c01d00cf0$871b6bf0$955243d0$@Ameritech.net> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 15:25:53 -0800 From: old dirtbeard To: Karl Vacek , "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Cable ties Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Hi Karl, I started buying them from McMaster qhwew you can choose the tensile strength you want/need Even their standard white ones are tough enough to use to mount motorcycle tires: http://www.mcmaster.com/#zip-ties/=utprzm best, doug ________________ '72 BSA B50SS '74 Moto Guzzi 850T '01 HD XHL 883 '03 GMC Cargo Van '07 Aprilia SXV 550 '13 Aprilia Tuono V4R ________________________________ From: Karl Vacek To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2014 2:53 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] Cable ties Once again I've bought bad cable ties. Decades ago cable ties all seemed to be good, but nowadays that's not so. NAPA used to carry decent (if expensive) ones, but they've changed now. The ones got from Monoprice were so weak that I threw them away. Then I bought a large assortment of G-B ties, and they too pop without warning under minimal tension. I think they're actually failing in the buckle, whereas the ones from Monoprice just snapped. Horrible Freight sells ties that may even be worse than either Monoprice of G-B. Is there a good, reliable brand or source for cable ties that can be tightened decently, hold tight, and stand up to weather, etc.? I don't want a bargain - just a good reliable source. Thank you! Karl _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Nov 30 16:34:57 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A74742584876 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 16:34:57 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail.milleredp.com (fw.milleredp.com [198.144.208.110]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5532025846BD for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 16:34:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from [10.1.2.100] ([::ffff:10.1.2.100]) (AUTH: PLAIN jem, TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,128bits,AES128-SHA) by mail.milleredp.com with ESMTPSA; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 15:38:35 -0800 id 000000000028001F.00000000547BAA7B.00002EA2 Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 15:38:30 -0800 From: John Miller User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.2.0 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <000c01d00cf0$871b6bf0$955243d0$@Ameritech.net> <1417389953.71501.YahooMailNeo@web181303.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Cable ties Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On 11/30/2014 3:25 PM, old dirtbeard wrote: > Hi Karl, > > I started buying them from McMaster I second that recommendation. John. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Nov 30 17:17:01 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4DFD25844D8 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 17:17:00 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from homiemail-a57.g.dreamhost.com (sub5.mail.dreamhost.com [208.113.200.129]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D64842580809 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 17:15:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from homiemail-a57.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a57.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BB68208063 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 16:19:22 -0800 (PST) message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s= groupwbench.org; bh=10RSLEttecQa+05uCS1OOKtF0JE=; b=pTPW8k+bZSaj 7/BOqp1G9YKoKzfoXsB7Wv7G0gl2i/JAjH3HKGC0ofWjnPxtMZBV+UTjtjDhdIFP r2yShhSD7n6aBNEnUxtUp7pEQEzqGRCXMromNbEiHzLhsP8D4Bfk+KsCvpnBxA8y QOCc92WXgTIBCD9secpOkZ7JxRD8eXw= Received: from [192.168.1.2] (c-98-216-48-213.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [98.216.48.213]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jamesf@groupwbench.org) by homiemail-a57.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1C6A6208058 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 16:19:21 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 19:19:23 -0500 From: Jim Franklin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 To: Shop-Talk List References: <0A0281727B4A4022B2152F2A94466154@Dell2010Watson> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Coolant in Oil Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Is the cross contamination happening at the intake? I've always heard of it happening (in general, not in any particular motor) at the head gaskets. I wouldn't bother with any chemicals. Flush it twice with cheap oil, letting it get hot enough each time that the water emulsifies into the oil, about 20 minutes. The 2nd flush should look pretty good and any leftover water will just boil off in normal use. jim On 11/30/2014 6:18 PM, Mark Watson wrote: > Folks, > > I'm appealing to the shop-talk group wisdom on this one. Earlier > this year my in-laws gave us their 1995 Buick Century with the 3.1l > V6. It was Grammy's car with only 105k miles - she can't drive > anymore which is why we got it. It's I really good shape except for > the coolant in the oil problem. When we got it the thermostat wasn't > working so I put one in. After that it started losing coolant. The > radiator had a leak at one tank seam (aluminum core with plastic > tanks) so I replaced it. Still losing coolant but not externally - > you guessed it - it was leaking into the oil. My final test before > taking anything apart was to pressurize the cooling system with the > oil drain plug removed and coolant basically ran out directly > correlated to the pressure. Apparently this engine is known for having > intake gasket issues. I pulled everything off and it doesn't look > good. The oil looks like a gross milkshake. > > The question - I don't want to replace/rebuild the engine if I can > help it. I figure if I can replace the gaskets (parts roughly $150, > my labor - priceless) and get enough life out of it I'll be coming out > ahead! > > Has anyone had any experience with flushing this gunk out of the > engine? I searched the archives and the only other case was > inconclusive as to what the poster did after getting answers. > > In searching the net I found this site: > http://dannysengineportal.blogspot.com/2011/05/how-to-clean-engine-coolant-fromthe.html > > They advocate using an industrial solvent like this: "Mix a 2:1 > solution of a commercially available cleaning solvent such as Butyl > Cellosolve (Union Carbide), Downol E-13 (Dow Chemical), or Glycol > Ether E-B (Chem Central) or equivalent with the enginebs recommended > oil." When I search for Butyl Cellosolve it shows up most in rants > against buying window or carpet cleaner with it. Of course I could > care less about that. Two gallons with shipping would cost $60. > > Has anyone used the BG Flush products they sell at some shops? What > I've read about them is to avoid them if you've been changing your oil > - obviously not relevant to my situation! > > Any help would be greatly appreciated! > > Thanks > > Mark Watson > 1956 Daimler (long term resto) > 1965 Ford Falcon (getting back on road after trans replacement) > various transportation pods (including this one ;-) > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jamesf@groupwbench.org _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Nov 30 18:45:47 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B561258074C for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 18:45:47 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from BLU004-OMC2S2.hotmail.com (blu004-omc2s2.hotmail.com [65.55.111.77]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16B5F258074C for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 18:45:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from BLU436-SMTP42 ([65.55.111.72]) by BLU004-OMC2S2.hotmail.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.22751); Sun, 30 Nov 2014 17:49:24 -0800 From: Jack Brooks To: "'Shop-Talk List'" References: <0A0281727B4A4022B2152F2A94466154@Dell2010Watson> <547BB40B.6050208@groupwbench.org> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 17:49:19 -0800 Thread-Index: AdAM/KaXTBWfA0rVQQ2hn59vxCCLnwAC7Qfw FILETIME=[07598B40:01D00D09] Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Coolant in Oil Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I agree with Jim. You don't need to go anything fancy, just time at temperature with clean oil to get the crud and moisture out. Jack -----Original Message----- From: Shop-talk [mailto:shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jim Franklin Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2014 4:19 PM To: Shop-Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Coolant in Oil Is the cross contamination happening at the intake? I've always heard of it happening (in general, not in any particular motor) at the head gaskets. I wouldn't bother with any chemicals. Flush it twice with cheap oil, letting it get hot enough each time that the water emulsifies into the oil, about 20 minutes. The 2nd flush should look pretty good and any leftover water will just boil off in normal use. jim On 11/30/2014 6:18 PM, Mark Watson wrote: > Folks, > > I'm appealing to the shop-talk group wisdom on this one. Earlier > this year my in-laws gave us their 1995 Buick Century with the 3.1l > V6. It was Grammy's car with only 105k miles - she can't drive > anymore which is why we got it. It's I really good shape except for > the coolant in the oil problem. When we got it the thermostat wasn't > working so I put one in. After that it started losing coolant. The > radiator had a leak at one tank seam (aluminum core with plastic > tanks) so I replaced it. Still losing coolant but not externally - > you guessed it - it was leaking into the oil. My final test before > taking anything apart was to pressurize the cooling system with the > oil drain plug removed and coolant basically ran out directly > correlated to the pressure. Apparently this engine is known for having > intake gasket issues. I pulled everything off and it doesn't look > good. The oil looks like a gross milkshake. > > The question - I don't want to replace/rebuild the engine if I can > help it. I figure if I can replace the gaskets (parts roughly $150, > my labor - priceless) and get enough life out of it I'll be coming out > ahead! > > Has anyone had any experience with flushing this gunk out of the > engine? I searched the archives and the only other case was > inconclusive as to what the poster did after getting answers. > > In searching the net I found this site: > http://dannysengineportal.blogspot.com/2011/05/how-to-clean-engine-coolant-f romthe.html > > They advocate using an industrial solvent like this: "Mix a 2:1 > solution of a commercially available cleaning solvent such as Butyl > Cellosolve (Union Carbide), Downol E-13 (Dow Chemical), or Glycol > Ether E-B (Chem Central) or equivalent with the enginebs recommended > oil." When I search for Butyl Cellosolve it shows up most in rants > against buying window or carpet cleaner with it. Of course I could > care less about that. Two gallons with shipping would cost $60. > > Has anyone used the BG Flush products they sell at some shops? What > I've read about them is to avoid them if you've been changing your oil > - obviously not relevant to my situation! > > Any help would be greatly appreciated! > > Thanks > > Mark Watson > 1956 Daimler (long term resto) > 1965 Ford Falcon (getting back on road after trans replacement) > various transportation pods (including this one ;-) > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jamesf@groupwbench.org _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jibrooks@live.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Nov 30 18:58:16 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49545258474F for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 18:58:16 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ig0-f175.google.com (mail-ig0-f175.google.com [209.85.213.175]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E967258074C for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 18:58:10 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-ig0-f175.google.com with SMTP id h15so12271463igd.14 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 18:01:55 -0800 (PST) s=20120113; h=references:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:cc:from:subject:date:to; bh=pORDqn6UkdE1O/0o8tUq0mfkgBOh/DAX0Zs8UlADYZo=; b=mZ7N1wrzin6YXvyaynwNVs0YHFalAChU33ReKYUnuE+2pYrjKWABUFExN6OCBVnkNd zZgnfUxXzKDTjwzxWMtcU4dJuatWshjmyctWkJ9BWx9cNcDe1t/6szBg/31/w51beFvk v0OrE3t+CX6jnIV/OpQ7mSMRXrTWqKjxeoGWE6aCvSJRLJc3dtvGGYGCi+jHfoxnS1z5 tFFeUO1/gXXU3B8Bt+fL+gCMdREOdzyLeGD++QzJCyqb8hxyGEAJBJGyr1F+i4YOxM/X R+dTGWKi9awzTPJfjxmBUUb3q951/ITGjYyByH1CsDsv2Gidt8t3+rAzymQVu1syHRSO al+A== ux8mr43484140igb.14.1417399315552; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 18:01:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.114] (205-178-104-63.c3-0.stk-ubr1.chi-stk.il.cable.rcn.com. [205.178.104.63]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id l70sm8832459iol.42.2014.11.30.18.01.54 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 30 Nov 2014 18:01:54 -0800 (PST) References: <000c01d00cf0$871b6bf0$955243d0$@Ameritech.net> From: David Scheidt Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 20:01:53 -0600 To: Karl Vacek Cc: "" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Cable ties Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > On Nov 30, 2014, at 16:53, "Karl Vacek" wrote: > > > Is there a good, reliable brand or source for cable ties that can be > tightened decently, hold tight, and stand up to weather, etc.? I don't want > a bargain - just a good reliable source. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Nov 30 19:16:55 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DB4B2584BD1 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 19:16:55 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from BLU004-OMC2S31.hotmail.com (blu004-omc2s31.hotmail.com [65.55.111.106]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8117F2584B7E for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 19:16:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from BLU180-W78 ([65.55.111.72]) by BLU004-OMC2S31.hotmail.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.22751); Sun, 30 Nov 2014 18:20:33 -0800 From: "Tim ." To: Shop Talk Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 20:20:33 -0600 References: <0A0281727B4A4022B2152F2A94466154@Dell2010Watson>, <547BB40B.6050208@groupwbench.org>, FILETIME=[62C814C0:01D00D0D] Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Coolant in Oil Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Maybe a little sea foam in with the one of the first two oil changes? I've seen clean oil become instantly dirty with one bottle's worth of treatment so the stuff must work. good luck tim > From: JIBrooks@Live.com > To: shop-talk@autox.team.net > Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 17:49:19 -0800 > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Coolant in Oil > > I agree with Jim. You don't need to go anything fancy, just time at > temperature with clean oil to get the crud and moisture out. > > Jack > > -----Original Message----- > From: Shop-talk [mailto:shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jim > Franklin > Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2014 4:19 PM > To: Shop-Talk List > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Coolant in Oil > > Is the cross contamination happening at the intake? I've always heard of > it happening (in general, not in any particular motor) at the head gaskets. > > I wouldn't bother with any chemicals. Flush it twice with cheap oil, > letting it get hot enough each time that the water emulsifies into the > oil, about 20 minutes. The 2nd flush should look pretty good and any > leftover water will just boil off in normal use. > > jim > > On 11/30/2014 6:18 PM, Mark Watson wrote: > > Folks, > > > > I'm appealing to the shop-talk group wisdom on this one. Earlier > > this year my in-laws gave us their 1995 Buick Century with the 3.1l > > V6. It was Grammy's car with only 105k miles - she can't drive > > anymore which is why we got it. It's I really good shape except for > > the coolant in the oil problem. When we got it the thermostat wasn't > > working so I put one in. After that it started losing coolant. The > > radiator had a leak at one tank seam (aluminum core with plastic > > tanks) so I replaced it. Still losing coolant but not externally - > > you guessed it - it was leaking into the oil. My final test before > > taking anything apart was to pressurize the cooling system with the > > oil drain plug removed and coolant basically ran out directly > > correlated to the pressure. Apparently this engine is known for having > > intake gasket issues. I pulled everything off and it doesn't look > > good. The oil looks like a gross milkshake. > > > > The question - I don't want to replace/rebuild the engine if I can > > help it. I figure if I can replace the gaskets (parts roughly $150, > > my labor - priceless) and get enough life out of it I'll be coming out > > ahead! > > > > Has anyone had any experience with flushing this gunk out of the > > engine? I searched the archives and the only other case was > > inconclusive as to what the poster did after getting answers. > > > > In searching the net I found this site: > > > http://dannysengineportal.blogspot.com/2011/05/how-to-clean-engine-coolant-f > romthe.html > > > > They advocate using an industrial solvent like this: "Mix a 2:1 > > solution of a commercially available cleaning solvent such as Butyl > > Cellosolve (Union Carbide), Downol E-13 (Dow Chemical), or Glycol > > Ether E-B (Chem Central) or equivalent with the enginebs recommended > > oil." When I search for Butyl Cellosolve it shows up most in rants > > against buying window or carpet cleaner with it. Of course I could > > care less about that. Two gallons with shipping would cost $60. > > > > Has anyone used the BG Flush products they sell at some shops? What > > I've read about them is to avoid them if you've been changing your oil > > - obviously not relevant to my situation! > > > > Any help would be greatly appreciated! > > > > Thanks > > > > Mark Watson > > 1956 Daimler (long term resto) > > 1965 Ford Falcon (getting back on road after trans replacement) > > various transportation pods (including this one ;-) > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Nov 30 19:56:35 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60C282584BFE for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 19:56:35 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-pd0-f169.google.com (mail-pd0-f169.google.com [209.85.192.169]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D00E22584A42 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 19:56:24 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-pd0-f169.google.com with SMTP id fp1so9859911pdb.28 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 19:00:09 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=GJrzwiKCFMzUqG9RdQQYIaWOhoRmUtyZc5ig2yiIjWw=; b=rsBaBbAvUrmfK8x9bTSG1tCGcCr4FNYYuedmHhv+MG4kBg2mdLzVW3obtckXqNJiQI q8W8bJqV605ApnXkarZffsE3mclpDuwU9oi4IFMW5LV1odUVXnkTq3HtupHymG7Y+AoG +7cbzNPjrt3WpNaBXsP4ACutHe701wObTSClYxpYJm9p6i2imeu9F7Fuf9D6TgGpl4vG 0Ibv/QH66tbyswHstFPGWQTcMGwS9iZP1+uzRSw6aap4KE95BOOGuDv9tpFYiWYbWjdu rKkgYmTQ1xg2Wq8c92y9K5PWR38B4d+/hq6vK9Oy9aBAGjltbFBszzZXZNhDj7IqAcWb 7SBA== pl4mr47571748pbb.128.1417402809642; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 19:00:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.70.96.141 with HTTP; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 19:00:09 -0800 (PST) References: <0A0281727B4A4022B2152F2A94466154@Dell2010Watson> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 21:00:09 -0600 From: David Scheidt To: shop-talk Subject: [Shop-talk] Fwd: Coolant in Oil Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 5:18 PM, Mark Watson wrote: > Folks, > > I'm appealing to the shop-talk group wisdom on this one. Earlier this > year my in-laws gave us their 1995 Buick Century with the 3.1l V6. It was > Grammy's car with only 105k miles - she can't drive anymore which is why we > got it. It's I really good shape except for the coolant in the oil problem. > When we got it the thermostat wasn't working so I put one in. After that it > started losing coolant. The radiator had a leak at one tank seam (aluminum > core with plastic tanks) so I replaced it. Still losing coolant but not > externally - you guessed it - it was leaking into the oil. My final test > before taking anything apart was to pressurize the cooling system with the > oil drain plug removed and coolant basically ran out directly correlated to > the pressure. Apparently this engine is known for having intake gasket > issues. I pulled everything off and it doesn't look good. The oil looks > like a gross milkshake. > > The question - I don't want to replace/rebuild the engine if I can help > it. I figure if I can replace the gaskets (parts roughly $150, my labor - > priceless) and get enough life out of it I'll be coming out ahead! > I did a bunch of these a long time ago, when the piece of crap engine was a current thing. As I recall, the job isn't terribly hard, just big. Six or seven hours, flat rate, and I never got fast at it them. Lots of stuff to take off to get to the manifolds, lots of stuff to put back. We never did anything special for cleaning the engines, just drain the oil, and change it after the engine has come up to temperature a few times. (We usually had people come back for an oil change in a week.) A few tips: get the shop manual. Or at least copy the relevant bits from a library copy. Second, the bolts holding the manifolds (upper and lower) are different lengths in different positions. Keep them straight, or you'll regret it. The pushrods are similarly different, and you'll ruin the engine if you screw them up. third, there are little plastic locating pins on gaskets (one for each port, I think). They break off, and if you don't dig them out of their holes, the new gasket won't go on right. Also: there are different versions of the gasket for the 3.1 and the 3.4, and possibly for different versions of the motors. Get the right one. Order by vin, if you're confident the engine is original. They look a lot alike, but they're not interchangeable. I'd do some checking to find the best gaskets for these these days, the orignal GM design is seriously sub-optimal. And there are lots of things you'll be taking apart. It's a good time to replace the serpentine belt, for instance, since it has to come off. I'd probably do the plugs, too, at 100K, unless you know they're new. We never did anything special for cleaning the engines, just drain the oil, and change it after the engine has come up to temperature a few times. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Nov 30 20:00:26 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 751CB2584C27 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 20:00:26 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-pa0-f49.google.com (mail-pa0-f49.google.com [209.85.220.49]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26C7D258486F for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 19:59:16 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-pa0-f49.google.com with SMTP id eu11so9997477pac.8 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 19:03:01 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=ZzxNIE2NwQRRXnavRvk+fEpvYeBK0PGwlTnApgreInQ=; b=uXlfvvvezfIpse/0lD9o+ScM4iOYtuGkTBykd6+nqjCb1gzDqqsfESTDJ6u7B8JNaJ I/QAnr5CK6P461DCjtz3e1uZmvwpDwXh4dXyMg9CNXnomxE2kgT6EX1EaPOys35pj3P6 G9v1C1+GF5536C++5dnrtsFXd9MuHo7jfkeOk+38hI9Bv2YBG9h8PCf7nAbz3ajgEH8d yrPiSvoCtGfifEqzXMY7tL7tGbiJXAu2E0ZhKzzu21aIw7zomRwHX1XcJRkNPORhe+77 XMSEdKRqiW96lAWwU7CyGN+q/ZgQbqGxmmHQW0U2c1h4s7pxT8jcqnR626IdAVI6O6Rk VblQ== de1mr49680089pbb.120.1417402981169; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 19:03:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.70.96.141 with HTTP; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 19:03:01 -0800 (PST) References: <0A0281727B4A4022B2152F2A94466154@Dell2010Watson> <547BB40B.6050208@groupwbench.org> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 21:03:01 -0600 From: David Scheidt To: Jim Franklin , shop-talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Coolant in Oil Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 6:19 PM, Jim Franklin wrote: > Is the cross contamination happening at the intake? I've always heard of it > happening (in general, not in any particular motor) at the head gaskets. > GM made a couple of engines, the 3.1 and 3.4 v6, from the early 90s to the mid 00s, that have coolant in the intake manifolds. They also used crappy plastic gaskets that fail, and leak into the oil. Just one of the things that gave GM a reputation for making crap cars: make a defective engine, and sell it for 15 years. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive