From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 4 17:12:06 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECF2F2584559 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 2014 17:12:05 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from bradakis.com (50-198-190-18-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.198.190.18]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5065258043F for ; Sat, 4 Oct 2014 17:11:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bradakis.com (50-198-190-18-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.198.190.18]) by bradakis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E031C2C01AD for ; Sat, 4 Oct 2014 17:15:00 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2014 17:15:00 -0600 From: Mark J Bradakis User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:29.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/29.0 SeaMonkey/2.26.1 To: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net Subject: [Shop-talk] Team.Net forums Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Spent a bit of time working on Team.Net today. Brought back the forums, though there might be some missing posts. The latest backup of that data got trashed during the break ins and power surges a while back. What fun. But the overpaid, underworked chump behind the curtain does manage to get something useful done once in a while. Check out the forum with the link below. mjb. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 4 19:55:43 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 622432584563 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 2014 19:55:43 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from filter02.roch.ny.frontiernet.net (filter02.roch.ny.frontiernet.net [66.133.183.227]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C951C258074D for ; Sat, 4 Oct 2014 19:55:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by filter02.roch.ny.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E54CD383FF for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2014 01:58:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from relay03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net ([66.133.182.166]) by localhost (filter02.roch.ny.frontiernet.net [66.133.183.227]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id rAE3ybgMjoVW for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2014 01:58:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unknown [50.34.97.129]) by relay03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 05DFE23AE2 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2014 01:58:23 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2014 19:00:41 -0700 From: Dave Cavanaugh User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 CC: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" References: <54164155.8020401@frontier.com> <6.2.5.6.1.20140915082045.04e55938@cox.net> <0NBY0015S552BRG0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <0919C3F2-1147-4C8C-BF36-C1ED88863D66@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Garage door opener problem Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This thing is driving me crazy. A couple of weeks ago after all the back-and-forth on the list, I had managed to convince myself that the circuit board was bad. I ordered a new one from Amazon and put it in; it was a perfect fit, and the problem did NOT go away. Ok, now I was finally convinced the sensors were at fault. I put the old board back in place, and pulled the sensors off their brackets, and taped them to a stick so they were an inch or so apart, and the door worked fine. So, it looked like the sensors had gone bad. I put the taped-together sensor assembly up on one of the wall studs and ordered a new pair of "universal" sensors from Amazon. While I was waiting for the new sensors to arrive, even with the sensors taped lens-to-lens, it wouldn't go down without holding the button. I figured the sensors were really, really dead. The new sensors came about a week later, I installed them in all of about ten minutes, and the door worked fine. Problem solved! Since it was working so well, I got an RMA and returned the PCB. About a week or so later, this afternoon, guess what? Same problem again. Door won't go down without holding the button. Sensors are clean and well aligned, orange and green leds on the sensor are lit, and the green one goes out when I interrupt the beam, but the door won't go down without the button being held down. I disengaged the door from the traveler, and it still won't go down....increased the setting on the "down" force pot, same problem. I think I'm going to H.D. next week end and buy a whole new GDO and be done with it. I'm sick of this. On 9/15/2014 7:51 AM, Paul Parkanzky wrote: > At our current house, the sensors would act up when the sun was shining on one > of them at just the right angle. I ended up having to make a shade out of a > piece of disposable cutting board to make it reliable. > > -Paul > >> On Sep 15, 2014, at 4:31 PM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote: >> >> I second the beam issue. I've had occasions before where the beam was >> barely aligned, but the action of the door starting must have shook it >> or flexed it off. I'd watch the lights on the beam receiver as the >> door is operated and see what happens, or I'd go ahead and clean and >> re-align the beam, making sure it's centered. >> >> Jeff Scarbrough >> Corrosion Acres, Ga. >> >>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 10:18 AM, Steven Trovato > wrote: >>> All the advice about lubricating rollers and checking for binding is all >>> good and worthwhile to do. However, with my Chamberlain openers, when the >>> light blinks and it refuses to close, it means the safety beam system is >>> detecting an obstruction. It could be a beam alignment issue, it could be >>> dirt or something on the lens. It could be a fault in the circuit board. >>> In my experience, though, it is never related to the door binding. On my >>> openers the door may reverse because of binding, but this does not cause >>> the light to blink. The fact that the problem went away for a week when >>> the service guy came leads me to believe that it is not a fault in the >>> board. It is more likely to be a beam alignment or cleaning issue. >>> >>> -Steve Trovato >>> strovato@optonline.net >>> _______________________________ > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/cavanadd@frontier.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Oct 4 20:25:28 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4DEE25845A6 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 2014 20:25:28 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.197]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F98D258456B for ; Sat, 4 Oct 2014 20:25:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Steve-PC.optonline.net (ool-457e1f68.dyn.optonline.net [69.126.31.104]) by mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPA id <0NCY00HW19JCHSC0@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for Shop-talk@autox.team.net; Sat, 04 Oct 2014 22:28:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2014 22:28:07 -0400 From: Steven Trovato To: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" References: <54164155.8020401@frontier.com> <6.2.5.6.1.20140915082045.04e55938@cox.net> <0NBY0015S552BRG0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <0919C3F2-1147-4C8C-BF36-C1ED88863D66@gmail.com> <5430A649.8080507@frontier.com> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Garage door opener problem Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net That's the way to go at this point. The thing is 15 years old and you say you can replace it for $125. Just based on that, I don't think I would put more than $50 or so into fixing it. I hope you don't have any problem returning the board. Sometimes electrical components that have been removed from their sealed bag and installed can be hard to return. Of course if it wasn't in a sealed bag, then perhaps they won't know. Anyway, I think you are on the right track now. Get a new one and put the aggravation behind you. -Steve At 10:00 PM 10/4/2014, Dave Cavanaugh wrote: >This thing is driving me crazy. > >A couple of weeks ago after all the back-and-forth on the list, I >had managed to convince myself that the circuit board was bad. I >ordered a new one from Amazon and put it in; it was a perfect fit, >and the problem did NOT go away. Ok, now I was finally convinced >the sensors were at fault. > >I put the old board back in place, and pulled the sensors off their >brackets, and taped them to a stick so they were an inch or so >apart, and the door worked fine. So, it looked like the sensors had >gone bad. >I put the taped-together sensor assembly up on one of the wall studs >and ordered a new pair of "universal" sensors from Amazon. While I >was waiting for the new sensors to arrive, even with the sensors >taped lens-to-lens, it wouldn't go down without holding the >button. I figured the sensors were really, really dead. > >The new sensors came about a week later, I installed them in all of >about ten minutes, and the door worked fine. Problem solved! Since >it was working so well, I got an RMA and returned the PCB. > >About a week or so later, this afternoon, guess what? Same problem >again. Door won't go down without holding the button. Sensors are >clean and well aligned, orange and green leds on the sensor are lit, >and the green one goes out when I interrupt the beam, but the door >won't go down without the button being held down. I disengaged the >door from the traveler, and it still won't go down....increased the >setting on the "down" force pot, same problem. > >I think I'm going to H.D. next week end and buy a whole new GDO and >be done with it. I'm sick of this. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 28 20:34:12 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09BF32584486 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2014 20:34:12 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-wi0-f175.google.com (mail-wi0-f175.google.com [209.85.212.175]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3847B258009C for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2014 20:34:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-wi0-f175.google.com with SMTP id ex7so489941wid.8 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2014 19:37:21 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=51cSdlHLTjymMOl3gKeXf0cpPKnJrCRjq5je3bWumUs=; b=bFdZYh9kCj1xiBKHGpd+F7o81rxiF2wwjbx7QJ85UfGf2nlOhJ96GuoWZ77GJnVc3H wnNreoCEuLoXPwOPua1cOntUlgjWuJRtzY8895+IEh7uziBM1Pv2q2F0HUrHooHqC3cg Lqq/G+Wg6cyDlqrzwyV+bQ2cFNKz4F5k21jjgOx7xMvhQF/eXGq31WY4Uwwgu9iu+1K5 gtU5CIwHAu3M6jUMFxv7UNZGXxDQsE8czqo9di15e3QVyaRHPo3ILvfqwwPxCrSDeKOM 7eJx/TjjsOn0kw5Vf7ZN2LZHHRdpzxrN3PyXLEdfnT8AEaojGK7jEMK5185frmyaCsfC LynA== nh16mr9457746wic.50.1414550241297; Tue, 28 Oct 2014 19:37:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.217.44.202 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Oct 2014 19:37:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2014 21:37:21 -0500 From: "Elton E. (Tony) Clark" To: Shop Talk List Subject: [Shop-talk] White page phone book on line? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Does anyone know of an online phone book that is free? There are hundreds that will scam you. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 28 20:58:10 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96A3325845B6 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2014 20:58:10 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-wg0-f52.google.com (mail-wg0-f52.google.com [74.125.82.52]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50826258076E for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2014 20:56:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-wg0-f52.google.com with SMTP id b13so317216wgh.39 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2014 19:59:45 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=orRr/XBLbQyfdmbsPhm2AY8edk5tvoIV0LfXiQWc5UU=; b=nVGPhlfHeGogyPyaPrdccPDntqtNnUzxmP1G3V4Ra+Yhz5QO522SziMl2V90dX1Ufg mZ2HxqjtH/XvFx91Yte+PJevVZ+jMykTMdbYKnnAxu9vx6l7lQw4wwR2s9R2C/RFoYbg SIUitYt1t3d/F6YlIckA0Y8qbvjXy0JfNM+hfcV1kixXf9bm3KNCVNNQ444aESe2evx1 fE+rh0we2EKW9pECL4vnHriZtDWLrESxN4qnim2TIhV0rHx+VpT+TJuem3KF8eImLWWd jBFlN3lnPN2i24CvJW2oJV6S/vuDnKsAzGF4jQOfS2sG8uKPC/QVlf8y1f6LdqcmzXTe mW7g== ck18mr8929857wjb.103.1414551585505; Tue, 28 Oct 2014 19:59:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.217.44.202 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Oct 2014 19:59:45 -0700 (PDT) References: <54505448.8030004@dfn.com> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2014 21:59:45 -0500 From: "Elton E. (Tony) Clark" To: Shop Talk List Subject: [Shop-talk] Fwd: White page phone book on line? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net b That didn't work, Anyone else?b On 10/28/2014 8:37 PM, Elton E. (Tony) Clark wrote: > Does anyone know of an online phone book that is free? > > > http://dexknows.whitepages.com/ Cheers. -- Michael Porter Roswell, NM Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance.... _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Oct 28 21:19:40 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE1CF25845EE for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2014 21:19:40 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-po-06v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-po-06v.sys.comcast.net [96.114.154.165]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F00125844C5 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2014 21:18:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-po-08v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.232]) by resqmta-po-06v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id 8rMj1p002516pyw01rNJG1; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 03:22:18 +0000 Received: from BigBlack ([73.169.171.11]) by resomta-po-08v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id 8rNH1p00G0F6Uip01rNHFf; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 03:22:18 +0000 From: "Bob Kegel" To: "Elton E. \(Tony\) Clark" , "Shop Talk List" References: Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2014 20:22:14 -0700 s=q20140121; t=1414552938; bh=LP0rjFA+9hCe0ZjhrEfraSJXJYr1C0mMcEadQFePviM=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Reply-To:From:To:Subject:Date: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=Mw16NYzx4GDMsh5V9y8xcLAyP8nDp0oIbJs+bEEdDmY0Ect5OqvjNiBH1gp6fBHRV +oumaUCghZ+0n8UQyRrlwwD7HN19taq+Wkl5Pjpbthg5YBY+R2mYMc0OmrrbD46oh1 Vf2iGT4TBjdaE66ql61F6siTVTXF/fc8hRIi1uXmpIVhSWuybuEA2QhsG8Zqo3c2SM YxjOv1oRw/1115lB5TybhdbIZjqMRBzOYLNRnn8t60hW1iIgqa8ej8LvS+sZcXfqzs LrdT9Oio2IlWT6DtkvdWQvqldY+u++QluRLNMKSVZctisiB4DEMT5ylZM1KyebouVX yeGhbB+Ik70Pg== Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] White page phone book on line? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net anywho.com Bob K _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 29 05:53:07 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07CFB258468C for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 05:53:07 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from homiemail-a43.g.dreamhost.com (sub5.mail.dreamhost.com [208.113.200.129]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A2AA258464B for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 05:52:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from homiemail-a43.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a43.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0C278C05F for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 04:56:18 -0700 (PDT) message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject:content-type: content-transfer-encoding; s=groupwbench.org; bh=LQ6wuFg9FjNeabQ pn2OXpCjtuzs=; b=Q9JV52M7Oa45dWrJK6OJVyzrZqslL5rXCBB3lyckrSrGh4I eBTFgEAu01+UeDtveO0wKAio4c/S1oFaCqZLVzGNFNKT//2YaLQhx9OGzpfsf7/H mUztuM1Bl4pNkAgcPEMBSckV5Mq9p86NkmPQLRkvC1EGIxlXu6VbaDfZe7Ag= Received: from [192.168.1.5] (c-65-96-165-53.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [65.96.165.53]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jamesf@groupwbench.org) by homiemail-a43.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 90BF68C057 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 04:56:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2014 07:56:24 -0400 From: Jim Franklin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 To: Shop-Talk List Subject: [Shop-talk] Cost of commercial septic system? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Some friends and I are very casually talking about building a place in the woods that'd hold about 25 people. The land is completely undeveloped but power and wells are on the adjacent property so it's developable. At 75 gals/person/day we're looking at almost 2000 gals/day. Any idea what it'd cost for a system like this? This'd be in the Sierra foothills of CA but I can extrapolate from your economy to this one :-) (lets assume average perc rates, access difficulty etc) thanks, jim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 29 08:37:15 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4839B25848EC for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 08:37:15 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from p3plsmtpa07-04.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (p3plsmtpa07-04.prod.phx3.secureserver.net [173.201.192.233]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 300E32584738 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 08:37:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PatsOffice ([38.103.208.34]) by p3plsmtpa07-04.prod.phx3.secureserver.net with id 92gP1p0080l45Le012gPBE; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 07:40:27 -0700 From: "Pat Horne" To: "'Jim Franklin'" , "'Shop-Talk List'" References: <5450D5E8.8090907@groupwbench.org> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2014 09:40:21 -0500 Thread-Index: Ac/zb2/SoiDrnD+XRuWr56ZYKvcMxQAFg6kQ Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Cost of commercial septic system? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Jim, Will you be doing the work yourself, or hiring a contractor? I can't give you the current prices, but we needed to replace our septic system about 10 years ago, the leach field was plugged. Replacing the leach field was estimated at $9,000 and installing a completely new aerobic system was $6,000. This was for a system to support 5 bathrooms. We live in central Texas. My reason for replying was to let you know that you should consider aerobic systems, as well as any other type of system available in your area also. Peace, Pat -----Original Message----- From: Shop-talk [mailto:shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jim Franklin Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 6:56 AM To: Shop-Talk List Subject: [Shop-talk] Cost of commercial septic system? Some friends and I are very casually talking about building a place in the woods that'd hold about 25 people. The land is completely undeveloped but power and wells are on the adjacent property so it's developable. At 75 gals/person/day we're looking at almost 2000 gals/day. Any idea what it'd cost for a system like this? This'd be in the Sierra foothills of CA but I can extrapolate from your economy to this one :-) (lets assume average perc rates, access difficulty etc) thanks, jim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat@hornesystemstx.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 29 13:01:34 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DE4F2584486 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 13:01:34 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-ch2-03v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-03v.sys.comcast.net [69.252.207.35]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE4F725804C2 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 13:01:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-20v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.116]) by resqmta-ch2-03v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id 973e1p0022XD5SV0174UZc; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 19:04:28 +0000 Received: from [192.168.0.100] ([76.21.64.167]) by resomta-ch2-20v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id 974T1p00V3cWj0U0174UTK; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 19:04:28 +0000 Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2014 12:03:58 -0700 From: Mark Miller User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: s=q20140121; t=1414609468; bh=7CoWFC3ZXHEYDorv2XSdSNh72QV+/KwvFf1jOX04NiY=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:MIME-Version:To: Subject:Content-Type; b=rcw9czQg31Dz3wRPc/x073tKmjuTa/V/q+GfsRx+YZ8mQZTGxIw0UOrO4NulVgTnM 1CTZ9tbyzO9Yf0tIF/7Aif/hKy8M8bNMWuTUz8u4BKw9wwTh6yUvXS1/wyU5qytjWT MF3TYkvcL5agWa7BfrjQ9z61H+nGmmMF5ze0fPlEuX7slmSCFXvaa6E1Ri7+uhQNYy cFmro3bZDb2sCaathCRVqayYfEwkQq5xi4LrrifVIr7etWUFvLjztWs9yDTrZLfXKi JuYu/8xC7vVn6KyfIIeHVtRJPj9ce0+yfsmPHqSjp3xmHhwo828J68u5Z5/1grYQCJ YztpCC+tEtodA== Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Shop-talk Digest, Vol 8, Issue 156 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net If this is a weekend retreat and summer kind of place you would not need to be able to perc the whole 25 folks all the time. It would take a larger holding tank, perhaps two cascading tanks, and a reasonable leech field. If it is your 'go to the hills society has collapsed' full time place then you would want more continuous support (and probably a local source of power). And you'd also want to really really vet those 24 other people well. For reference my leech field is for 5 bedrooms, which the county calculates as supporting 10 people. It has 356 linear feet of leech pipe and a 1500 gallon tank. Pipes are 8 feet apart, so roughly 3000 square feet of leech field. This went in in Sonoma County in 2005; I know the codes have changed since then (if you care). More details? Just ask. HTH. Regards, Mark Miller markmiller@threeboysfarm.com On 10/29/2014 11:00 AM, Jim Franklin wrote: > Some friends and I are very casually talking about building a place in > the woods that'd hold about 25 people. The land is completely > undeveloped but power and wells are on the adjacent property so it's > developable. At 75 gals/person/day we're looking at almost 2000 > gals/day. Any idea what it'd cost for a system like this? This'd be in > the Sierra foothills of CA but I can extrapolate from your economy to > this one:-) > > (lets assume average perc rates, access difficulty etc) > > thanks, > jim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 29 13:31:52 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4F8B2584567 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 13:31:52 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from homiemail-a82.g.dreamhost.com (sub5.mail.dreamhost.com [208.113.200.129]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F95425804C2 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 13:31:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from homiemail-a82.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a82.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9821A282065 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 12:35:08 -0700 (PDT) message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s= groupwbench.org; bh=5IlN5V5QKoSGFzMKnUizoD8VGlk=; b=CZbl9DD0xyvK W0gwKA5vGUvKSFTumoMZqjJGwbUFJorcdcoUUzOU1NkfUpomW0qYV7YZw9Kv5z64 jq9eSd0/T+z+ECwAnVxR4d30JhOl5BcJGyvU3sXTAmuh2X2UYq+KiyLW0XFqBjU+ ylB1e6R5ge7Wx5K0cBamB4A8ZiSJWbY= Received: from [10.189.71.174] (unknown [192.54.222.20]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jamesf@groupwbench.org) by homiemail-a82.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 68E12282074 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 12:35:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2014 15:34:54 -0400 From: Jim Franklin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <54513A1E.30600@threeboysfarm.com> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Shop-talk Digest, Vol 8, Issue 156 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Definitely the former :-) But we'd all be up there at once a few times a year, with lots of eating and drinking and kitchen use, so the peak load of the septic needs to be high. Trying to get a sense of what it'd cost to develop the land. The well and septic are the biggest unknowns. jim On 10/29/2014 3:03 PM, Mark Miller wrote: > If this is a weekend retreat and summer kind of place you would not > need to be able to perc the whole 25 folks all the time. It would > take a larger holding tank, perhaps two cascading tanks, and a > reasonable leech field. If it is your 'go to the hills society has > collapsed' full time place then you would want more continuous support > (and probably a local source of power). And you'd also want to really > really vet those 24 other people well. > For reference my leech field is for 5 bedrooms, which the county > calculates as supporting 10 people. It has 356 linear feet of leech > pipe and a 1500 gallon tank. Pipes are 8 feet apart, so roughly 3000 > square feet of leech field. > This went in in Sonoma County in 2005; I know the codes have changed > since then (if you care). More details? Just ask. HTH. > > Regards, > > Mark Miller > markmiller@threeboysfarm.com > > On 10/29/2014 11:00 AM, Jim Franklin wrote: >> Some friends and I are very casually talking about building a place in >> the woods that'd hold about 25 people. The land is completely >> undeveloped but power and wells are on the adjacent property so it's >> developable. At 75 gals/person/day we're looking at almost 2000 >> gals/day. Any idea what it'd cost for a system like this? This'd be in >> the Sierra foothills of CA but I can extrapolate from your economy to >> this one:-) >> >> (lets assume average perc rates, access difficulty etc) >> >> thanks, >> jim > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jamesf@groupwbench.org _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 29 16:31:57 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97AC925844D2 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 16:31:57 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qg0-f52.google.com (mail-qg0-f52.google.com [209.85.192.52]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23EC92580A32 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 16:26:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-qg0-f52.google.com with SMTP id a108so3026187qge.25 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 15:29:39 -0700 (PDT) h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=kkJ9HvZLO4M8eTx+KkUh3hhbYtnTEBk2Io3xFyE3th0=; b=ZJ7bUzrjcsm3jWoNQ0HEyKUERvkluwmJA3gjgc2vYxz9o+ArKffmxPmgW3mTVOosEV /LbL+qC5diUZA/lXTOHAwm093udqVAhCL4Wr+NZxXVz/X6g9LacMK0VDm7UFE4LcFoA9 O1pXuPh8xDyX3HExTZM0YJ4EC8LUq11or1MJsbi5wl2eFFnhbbF3LRod9ZzDJcXilT6h aFGigZUyrc2OZgMorX902DF/p/YVO3ll1ISYr0cKpzGSrrwLJVUdBsseWU19IKNgcpmj 0HRg2Oyp3tKgiBN28th0BptZmnMoUEGle9TtAdQhzwGRgEjEGMQwb192a6QFWikXfXvt Ninw== a66mr19666875qgf.37.1414621779296; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 15:29:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.43.158] (137.sub-70-193-193.myvzw.com. [70.193.193.137]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id z32sm5228767qgd.40.2014.10.29.15.29.38 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 29 Oct 2014 15:29:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2014 18:29:43 -0400 From: Scott User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <54513A1E.30600@threeboysfarm.com> <5451415E.4030900@groupwbench.org> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Shop-talk Digest, Vol 8, Issue 156 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I'm learning more about wells than I want to know (though I still know nearly nothing), but apparently the 'well' itself doesn't need to supply so much water--or the size of the pump doesn't vary as much as I thought it would. It's the size of the holding tank, and the pump from that tank that matters. The idea is that the pump (apparently) will run more-or-less constantly filling this monster tank (depending on how much water you plan to use). Then you draw down the tank all at once, and the pump spends the next two days re-filling it. Or, when I asked about a well to supply El Shower Maximus at the house, he said the well pump itself was fine. There needed to be a bigger tank, and bigger lines from that tank, and a pump to pump the water *from* the tank, but the same scrawny well pump itself (to the tank) is fine from a tiny house up to commercial applications. The tank is a sort of...capacitor, I guess. The current supply in can be low. If I got that analogy right. (I chime in because my wife at full capacity will consume more water than 25 partiers, easily. What kind of shower needs a 1-inch supply line to the fixture?) Anyway, I wonder if septic tanks are similar. We just replaced ours, and the tank is huge now, as are the leach lines. Maybe you just get the gigantor tank, and the lines spend a week draining. On 10/29/2014 3:34 PM, Jim Franklin wrote: > Definitely the former :-) But we'd all be up there at once a few > times a year, with lots of eating and drinking and kitchen use, so the > peak load of the septic needs to be high. Trying to get a sense of > what it'd cost to develop the land. The well and septic are the > biggest unknowns. > > jim > > On 10/29/2014 3:03 PM, Mark Miller wrote: >> If this is a weekend retreat and summer kind of place you would not >> need to be able to perc the whole 25 folks all the time. It would >> take a larger holding tank, perhaps two cascading tanks, and a >> reasonable leech field. If it is your 'go to the hills society has >> collapsed' full time place then you would want more continuous >> support (and probably a local source of power). And you'd also want >> to really really vet those 24 other people well. >> For reference my leech field is for 5 bedrooms, which the county >> calculates as supporting 10 people. It has 356 linear feet of leech >> pipe and a 1500 gallon tank. Pipes are 8 feet apart, so roughly 3000 >> square feet of leech field. >> This went in in Sonoma County in 2005; I know the codes have changed >> since then (if you care). More details? Just ask. HTH. >> >> Regards, >> >> Mark Miller >> markmiller@threeboysfarm.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 29 19:02:10 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AD72258448F for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 19:02:10 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from homiemail-a94.g.dreamhost.com (sub5.mail.dreamhost.com [208.113.200.129]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A118258083A for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 18:58:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from homiemail-a94.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a94.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C7A438A059 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 18:01:57 -0700 (PDT) message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s= groupwbench.org; bh=4JRGJebIJ+Qx2sT3HQ81X7BG8vI=; b=VU8si3z5hlzY l7YbLyOXMviwRkSKFnf7pSF0I7FLAGktXw5Q71SCf6YUk05XlGk30rY3Dq6uqw1X jTSv72Gyn6juAeHqO8lnyzF//DkBq8w7bXQDS+6/P4CJV/g2kNogxESi1u0NVAcs aY1jUVVPSVqlzcNqPEM+35u/JtbrEeU= Received: from [192.168.1.5] (c-65-96-165-53.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [65.96.165.53]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jamesf@groupwbench.org) by homiemail-a94.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A6D7A38A058 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 18:01:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2014 21:01:54 -0400 From: Jim Franklin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 To: Shop-Talk List References: <54513A1E.30600@threeboysfarm.com> <5451415E.4030900@groupwbench.org> <54516A57.9040306@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Shop-talk Digest, Vol 8, Issue 156 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On 10/29/2014 6:29 PM, Scott wrote: > Anyway, I wonder if septic tanks are similar. We just replaced ours, > and the tank is huge now, as are the leach lines. Maybe you just get > the gigantor tank, and the lines spend a week draining. Sure, that would work for us, but the next owner may throw a 25 person party every day. Needs to be designed for maximum load, which is related to the # bedrooms * soil absorption capacity. We visit a ski lodge every spring and about every other year the tank overflows, usually right around the time we're all on the lawn digging into dinner[1]... jim [1] I typo'd that as donner, which is funny on a few levels given the location of the land I'm looking at... _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 29 21:48:02 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8CA22584616 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 21:48:01 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-pa0-f53.google.com (mail-pa0-f53.google.com [209.85.220.53]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7917C25845C8 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 21:47:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-pa0-f53.google.com with SMTP id kx10so4500168pab.26 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 20:51:13 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=0Y38Ntem6kBaM3M0uLo5lDiQiOLMDhNVNCTAT7UseMo=; b=uFpt4x07cOAnrBWkarTKyrg5IKbmH3gj4dR8MbgHrYs+Eyr/7DZRh+CFhWe6M9a3L2 1poVYg0VMiVODENbE1SNSD6pMltEH/l20VsI92IAAVjwrmxzDX5/Yo6p8PXYgW3884vF PG62du2fz1tXZQ60YWZb7UJwcf6o7fwfSJxFt32bK0FPbBtX8guA8yonSRT7gjvrNlvA m/Olizm/VZW/W1q3vOE7GvhTklMEhlhYLtBujImmS9y7r4ffXAzSdurnTCw+Rj+7Aa/b xNEySL4Pij9F4menR4YdEIwrm5NJG8aJSs8cOy/YEK8vx3jv5ej373jV6m6s+iSWfZMC nWvQ== z5mr14438204pdk.120.1414641072875; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 20:51:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.96.173 with HTTP; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 20:51:12 -0700 (PDT) References: <54513A1E.30600@threeboysfarm.com> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2014 22:51:12 -0500 From: David Scheidt To: markmiller@threeboysfarm.com Cc: shop-talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Shop-talk Digest, Vol 8, Issue 156 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Mark Miller wrote: > If this is a weekend retreat and summer kind of place you would not need to > be able to perc the whole 25 folks all the time. Depends on code. Most places will require you to install septic to match the capacity of the place. (Because what you build as a one week a year vacation spot will be the next owner's primary residence.) If there are beds for 25, there needs to septic for them, as well. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Oct 29 22:22:04 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C5512584634 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 22:22:04 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-pd0-f172.google.com (mail-pd0-f172.google.com [209.85.192.172]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34F8725845C9 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 22:21:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-pd0-f172.google.com with SMTP id r10so4387444pdi.3 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 21:25:18 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=N8Jqaw1WbatzmtA7uQw+1pQ9eOoITCdwvRNjlBk9v2Q=; b=fjZ8oHSzpspicPRaxqo5t8r8+3miZPD75n0uVfAsgfe43MrTwVf8HL4oN+vVQ9/XvU ctB8lijDNgYxufGNUwRGShUPZzNtxY4Qmzu4CZD1+3iAmYo/cxu4p06s680hx4vbHB5c Y/oVBz8why4m2HBw0kkHjQsmlAK7mdm5RiEWkjHHRxM3JjkOkJmflvOJeAgLYMkT8dle XkU9W3GXc/q14VyJrU5xV1Z6KgCaGqtsbWlWoKwnXLhZZdoESP8sgAHGPS7nci93R4QF o2CHfJKeYi7JS0Vyjtmq/N69td/kr9PoDiiYoKtfXA+TZ5KgNRmAcHTJVMhZNARsmCGF zrJg== si3mr14955805pac.32.1414643118726; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 21:25:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.96.173 with HTTP; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 21:25:18 -0700 (PDT) References: <54513A1E.30600@threeboysfarm.com> <5451415E.4030900@groupwbench.org> <54516A57.9040306@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2014 23:25:18 -0500 From: David Scheidt To: Scott Cc: shop-talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Shop-talk Digest, Vol 8, Issue 156 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 5:29 PM, Scott wrote: > I'm learning more about wells than I want to know (though I still know > nearly nothing), but apparently the 'well' itself doesn't need to supply so > much water--or the size of the pump doesn't vary as much as I thought it > would. It's the size of the holding tank, and the pump from that tank that > matters. The idea is that the pump (apparently) will run more-or-less > constantly filling this monster tank (depending on how much water you plan > to use). Then you draw down the tank all at once, and the pump spends the > next two days re-filling it. > > Or, when I asked about a well to supply El Shower Maximus at the house, he > said the well pump itself was fine. There needed to be a bigger tank, and > bigger lines from that tank, and a pump to pump the water *from* the tank, > but the same scrawny well pump itself (to the tank) is fine from a tiny > house up to commercial applications. The tank is a sort of...capacitor, I > guess. The current supply in can be low. If I got that analogy right. > This depends on local practice, which depends on local water supply. If it's easy to bore a well that can deliver large volume, then that's usually what's done. (Where I used to live in Indiana, 100 gpm out of a 5" well was pretty common nominal capacity, though most houses had lower capacity pumps.) If it's not, then holding tank and a pump that runs more or less continuously gets used. For a typical single family house, a peak water usage of 600 gallons in two hours is the standard design goal. With no storage, that requires a 5 GPM well. That's easy in the midwest and much of the east. In arid areas, or rocky areas, that can be hard. With suitable storage, even a 1 gpm well can provide that. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 30 12:10:57 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 776E42584A92 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2014 12:10:57 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm20-vm3.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (nm20-vm3.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [98.138.91.150]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21B212584786 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2014 12:06:50 -0600 (MDT) s=s1024; t=1414692613; bh=3CWaM5UImOn/KWFXT0aP3KbHj4XrFnPEHoS1ZQIaZrE=; h=From:Subject:Date:To:From:Subject; b=oUNr/3A20EsS9bw/TDRnJxa/a/qp/RBtCYieOMokSBx75FJCcGn5X0L1uPo5buhZMI9mEHWZij6lbM9O7s5NYAGsHt6Z7ojQV9lFgxi5H/6mW9Rde1Uu0gXSOfNfvphdt04owfE1z40YbPWyI1LweZS5ZszXRjTAd7HeiTRZwM4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=bellsouth.net; b=336bHF1421BfWjvlqEoCgk6o0BtnxINz/7dNia/QQ8o5H1L4mFL7p1DqBlCA5lff862LIOIV7Ck9FBdPCI3wR0Z9e9zh+de3LkxLuywCLwyPdBk/i5HwGy8dLX4pHrnWZX/UCGC07hak9gjW5+h2KyLzsuXwAqzDAUTS/p1gJIs=; Received: from [98.138.226.179] by nm20.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Oct 2014 18:10:13 -0000 Received: from [98.138.226.62] by tm14.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Oct 2014 18:10:13 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp213.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Oct 2014 18:10:13 -0000 wVa263NTcDx5GwULJ4MudpaGF1cRyYCRXvVbIdvmBksSC_TDqtPfrT8zKGZ0 PIAqy.dx48NxmZQLTAWHR0UozViTeNAgedzZNAsiRpuCoiV3RbFmAgBNq.ff DXhzXAYMnnUioKJLFHshyMhmL3x17Wyg4C42NwDb05ES_OTEs8_Ud4d6cVp8 sNazsK2wVLl2AkdMgq36CMQUWmlSS2OFbatFQFxw32k9_4jQ2n1ZNwaToCHz Dns7K5OLFzB2dSBusuClHwFYQvQIHPmAWXxUR1RMpIEYAHaoS5cF9muvnVfd nww1OzpcdMvLwoA2vzqyRK1h_VApMNF0OmVr8JqM0oQl1_5AFIbtKtHa4a3E G.VbBbrWNzmspWXWe1yxtTZ1k90pr24BiP5C3iyAamcXStQs32Moy.rtjNYR Cb9Hk7kVx8mYxbSsstBSaEMx_c.u56sY5CaGbipW8zZc2QBPFx8kQ9qnQPcl 7n_ZzvwrHkI2b4FmuX9jwc_u2CEGEIHUkgqfHVrv13LC1XqrPWv2sJc_T From: David Cole Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 13:10:11 -0500 To: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: [Shop-talk] Smart thermostat ? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I'm looking to upgrade the thermostat in my new-to-me home. They claim to reduce heating and cooling costs. What brands have the list members used with success? Lots of different choices out there for programmable units . 7 day, 5-1-1, 5-2, wifi units, self learning, brands, etc. The Honeywell units seem to be common at the local big box stores. Any good? For hvac I have a heat pump. American Standard 4 Ton split unit Thanks David Cole _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 30 12:37:54 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83A912584786 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2014 12:37:54 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-oi0-f48.google.com (mail-oi0-f48.google.com [209.85.218.48]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16B3825844D2 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2014 12:31:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-oi0-f48.google.com with SMTP id x69so4422848oia.21 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2014 11:34:37 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc :content-type; bh=bJR50yKOkOwjDknoAIOOOI5vEjBO74C68E9EulYkIvY=; b=C5hY/f1J9ukoFUv/C+xy+ZcqAxRnqftE8G/HpHw+x45p1rma0UhCCDPvhGW1Nj4TS7 hEzKBN3piXU8MkJRAB4d8Zy5XX/zQ7x4/UdJQGthdL5f8Ouh0XVSkXXUX7Lydjz4JepU ilJjKEMIjsoLNVOtKUltx8BqMW17rX4NIyOavQbsUFiIvgHEdi/zfIp9VrHiuVX9GQ5V ILswYkycCrElzJSPFZD/hY7/LGmbgyQCT+13sHGLxf7NJ1zYX2Wpj+ze1sfVIiatAJ9J XC78+oioS3Ez44Pw7uLJIxGwaUlCk4aXJFnyh+eviF/Sh93OElwNhuSeS9Ho10fFvZHa HvRg== g9mr15554921obx.14.1414694077182; Thu, 30 Oct 2014 11:34:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.106.204 with HTTP; Thu, 30 Oct 2014 11:34:37 -0700 (PDT) References: <514848B6-45F2-4E41-AAB9-1EA8C9C7DB90@bellsouth.net> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 13:34:37 -0500 From: Ronnie Day Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Smart thermostat ? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net We had a Honeywell programmable in the house we were renting while we built our new place, and I'm sure it more than paid for itself, especially with our highly variable central Texas temps. It was around $65, IIRC. The newer "smart" units can be far more expensive, around $250 right now but I expect prices may begin to drop soon as production volume and sales increase. These will probably have to be connected to a router or switch so they can be accessed remotely with a computer or mobile device. One point about Honeywell. When we bought the unit at Home Depot the packaging said it would automagically switch between heating and cooling modes based on pretty simple programming, which was what we wanted. Turned out that the packaging was incorrect and the model in the box had to be switched manually. When I called Honeywell customer service they were very nice and sent the correct, more expensive unit overnight and free of any cost. Told us not to bother sending the incorrect unit back. Good C/S, IMO. Ron On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 1:10 PM, David Cole wrote: > I'm looking to upgrade the thermostat in my new-to-me home. They claim to > reduce heating and cooling costs. > > What brands have the list members used with success? Lots of different > choices out there for programmable units . 7 day, 5-1-1, 5-2, wifi units, > self learning, brands, etc. > > The Honeywell units seem to be common at the local big box stores. Any > good? > > For hvac I have a heat pump. American Standard 4 Ton split unit > > Thanks > David Cole > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage : > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ronnie.day@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 30 12:40:32 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C1FA258470D for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2014 12:40:32 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-yk0-f173.google.com (mail-yk0-f173.google.com [209.85.160.173]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29BE525844D2 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2014 12:40:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-yk0-f173.google.com with SMTP id 131so2591791ykp.32 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2014 11:43:50 -0700 (PDT) d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=NkkYYIWxzfWaX34EMzH1FoAw5qPY3zh/TCe/iQkrWNk=; b=UPWXrUGaBC/jA+k5Tv8+jI0QkNtL7kSSK20mz0nXygm+ORJc9dVK9y0mopuQvMvpn4 nTaFndT8pT+Ket2WcUgljANU3kfGEL/Fgt728gwxIv0ayqM+4fOL9R2a8l5H1T7l3ZS7 BavfSr2EWz6lMP2IDKVQd8zlLRfhn6UPnbgncJx+dRGoOHVHfxPcfA1cxwLMf7S8S/XG D8eUYtjFusL0MTm0nzOJt66VHEW+h5KEt/+Swy8021SzYfyncwId6cGhVdys7FV5OfFt 0FGragEe9TTmu2i2J4mbUud/4j9fkjsR96MCcGb/Gq54abj9C+JXl0g/QEgZmuIcn3JC zqew== v79mr9251921yhc.73.1414694630023; Thu, 30 Oct 2014 11:43:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.170.44.18 with HTTP; Thu, 30 Oct 2014 11:43:49 -0700 (PDT) References: <514848B6-45F2-4E41-AAB9-1EA8C9C7DB90@bellsouth.net> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 14:43:49 -0400 From: Doug Braun To: David Cole Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Smart thermostat ? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net The way these save money is by simply turning down the heat during the times you don't want it, like at night and when you are at work. I think it is best to have one that is not too difficult to program. Unfortunately most of them have ancient, cheap, ugly user interfaces. Last year I got one of those cute Nest thermostats for the first floor of our house. It is certainly good-looking, and fairly easy to program from a web browser. But its hyped auto-learn feature does not work so well, since it is mounted in the living room, which is usually unoccupied (compared to the den and kitchen). I could have bought a second one for upstairs, but I did not feel like spending another $200. The one downstairs is sufficient to impress guests. :-) But if you often leave your house for more than a day at a time, the ability to remotely control the heat from a smartphone or PC would be pretty handy. Our house is almost always occupied, so I can take advantage of that only a few times per year. Doug On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 2:10 PM, David Cole wrote: > I'm looking to upgrade the thermostat in my new-to-me home. They claim to > reduce heating and cooling costs. > > What brands have the list members used with success? Lots of different > choices out there for programmable units . 7 day, 5-1-1, 5-2, wifi units, > self learning, brands, etc. > > The Honeywell units seem to be common at the local big box stores. Any > good? > > For hvac I have a heat pump. American Standard 4 Ton split unit > > Thanks > David Cole > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/doug@dougbraun.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 30 12:41:42 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95ADA25847F5 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2014 12:41:42 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-wg0-f43.google.com (mail-wg0-f43.google.com [74.125.82.43]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0C7E25844D2 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2014 12:41:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-wg0-f43.google.com with SMTP id y10so1993635wgg.16 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2014 11:44:59 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=AcBTHj4Dfoe5FPjDchiHBVHeIfi/ftaPlE7TYPlU2VE=; b=NAfzb9KcVxc2dwdjHAnzRoekoZelJbimJcr7QKqqTqmFzrSl+IvPD+oAgI5glzgxm5 V871oQwcVxUHAv1vRx/HD17L0k2syW5Y534ffpTpZxfjFFEed0OhfCKoxvXu+6W/oJ1D UqfY2G2TmvBT5QwhtVc3qtUSqE/fmuNE5yw8JP9xjqOWyc6Smr6AOqgcbqFdxh/6LYW1 gMWCyS+WPj19mTUFhih6T66W1+pcjE56w/ASPTihSkPYJDXGEWOy9/GIzvZeuuzylIpF pHE2zNjd22I3EByCHUy8vb6ZoOJ2FekngakWhrFThxGwo49pTEy0wuvZJxyV3oXbqvRX Dd2A== e9mr23153080wja.20.1414694699073; Thu, 30 Oct 2014 11:44:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.135.20 with HTTP; Thu, 30 Oct 2014 11:44:59 -0700 (PDT) References: <514848B6-45F2-4E41-AAB9-1EA8C9C7DB90@bellsouth.net> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 14:44:59 -0400 From: Benjamin Zwissler To: David Cole Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Smart thermostat ? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net For heat pumps it may not be wise to set back very much. If the gap between "set" and "actual" gets too large it may kick on resistance heat, depending on the ambient temp and intelligence of the controls. Resistance heat is much more expensive per unit of heat than the heat pump. If you're in a cold climate your opportunity to save on heat may be limited. Ben.... On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 2:10 PM, David Cole wrote: > I'm looking to upgrade the thermostat in my new-to-me home. They claim to > reduce heating and cooling costs. > > What brands have the list members used with success? Lots of different > choices out there for programmable units . 7 day, 5-1-1, 5-2, wifi units, > self learning, brands, etc. > > The Honeywell units seem to be common at the local big box stores. Any good? > > For hvac I have a heat pump. American Standard 4 Ton split unit > > Thanks > David Cole > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bjzwissler@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 30 13:09:06 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5AA725846D2 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2014 13:09:06 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm5-vm5.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (nm5-vm5.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [216.39.63.123]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 026872584601 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2014 13:05:35 -0600 (MDT) s=s1024; t=1414696138; bh=jKAGX1HvxxHMb+P/DSDdusxfNnoBRmm6JFbJJHq095A=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=3ZHOkraFXW+fYyRv/7LsxmEtCp4kAXHKUGhtWNZl7M5D/03pZxhtNgkf9Bw/yvF4YwsU92ZElKEbZ30IwjYc9RbM0/xiHzp0aKab0GvwPAAK6ylunJ5HWadG0xFRDwkf3lJN8YHU5bTZYMo0E0yQMbH4d0MUtLG5co7796wT8Gg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=att.net; b=uIUGqkanLMR+18hr76Hl5EMCuzBOafOggTpzCTTIBQHiBJQ5doomlYtHjKfiI3acpNEUo/1V49IOqbB5xIBkuiGPjvH1wKhQWtbFIenG/x0SYUEjAJWO7TVXtQ6K3XeuW7GnasftknYGgNKa1liSP+agC/jtpWj4XWZD0PhChPs=; Received: from [216.39.60.172] by nm5.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Oct 2014 19:08:58 -0000 Received: from [67.195.22.118] by tm8.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Oct 2014 19:08:58 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp113.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Oct 2014 19:08:58 -0000 4SiCL6dTpmayGvoAccqkvyamtvlgnzl8IRQ3QJvUhX_mQIrZWCJSqE5w4jrH KexQOrlfMj5V7svPE4W19JP.o3Htc92bcw.mPsD4P0d.bp9h23UU0HOJSah7 Iij4bnydjHQiHcDp3DioXbI.IKZAfBNuxj2KBBXTdHxxd2_i5g0y9UD2C4AX mbaQMW3dmjv_XBvT.EmvUhcGIOfoIXGpiBD0Eyl6uXc7N.PWVdXXvi2nkfR7 HGqtwbcCDagEVRMnVRyCKJK.B85carXI9d6Qbsu.9.FH0EqLtHUtFbaAV3xY yr4i0pDq_0AZGdQShCFb90WaqQRItvjOmQ93qZMses2Zms_CBPXNyUGZPBfa 0Wxj9m1ue8YTu3GnL7LLZtgAqotLtqD43AjBLP0SBDMwZlkET71vU8KAZx6v qBqqfTouWal_xCE1Omevujp897gGnRnhPtQoaUgFj.g6FtJ.xIekqtZ0MWZ. YUcgs6rRtCdfklaI.X1qFpl79_J6681g7_JTIp9dGgkplL04Yko2xn9U1xim wPTMbzUxFuMmGDhdYpwwK2iSpBTrdsrsvRzxLJws- Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 14:09:30 -0500 From: steve hochschild User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.2.0 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <514848B6-45F2-4E41-AAB9-1EA8C9C7DB90@bellsouth.net> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] [Bulk] Smart thermostat ? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net We bought the Nest, and it works great for us. The house is almost always where we want it. It allows you to easily adjust your preferences, and it is connected, so it knows whether it is hot or cold outside. We luv it, and would buy it again. It cost $250, installed in minutes, and works better than we expected. We live in Austin, and our thermostat is in the entryway... On 10/30/2014 1:10 PM, David Cole wrote: > I'm looking to upgrade the thermostat in my new-to-me home. They claim to > reduce heating and cooling costs. > > What brands have the list members used with success? Lots of different > choices out there for programmable units . 7 day, 5-1-1, 5-2, wifi units, > self learning, brands, etc. > > The Honeywell units seem to be common at the local big box stores. Any good? > > For hvac I have a heat pump. American Standard 4 Ton split unit > > Thanks > David Cole > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shochschild@att.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 30 20:18:45 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB4DE2580B96 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2014 20:18:44 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.194]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07BD2258069D for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2014 20:18:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pa0043450.govsolutions.com (184-75-234-226-static.northstate.net [184.75.234.226]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mreueus001) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0McoSN-1XSdYO1qAD-00I0Xu; Fri, 31 Oct 2014 03:21:56 +0100 From: Tim Hoerning Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 22:21:51 -0400 References: <514848B6-45F2-4E41-AAB9-1EA8C9C7DB90@bellsouth.net> <54528CEA.1030008@att.net> To: steve@hochschild.org SohiO0MJa/z2WmMBE9yVw5QcyqMNiqu3AhiMJBrbTC8SpJsO+U 89kZYgQIha4gZZBENIBDBniMwLCSWcNyT2LNgCWmczZmwyzvjU dBLijhEL3am+818fkLLViHTh02+7k7FCU/RaTSqFpy5LXZb1UD dhrku2D98u9Oesj0+kyJy5WB1mbBDRUV6RjPsfCTsCHb9488HI 32x249KP/JJCFDapGUPFrTLlrJ9gsWnokfzsS0VOWfDcg+F3ma Z2jdIH1NZgU2Fwf9XX2fEygX7Y7TxoSLiq8CnT8gSu+4McZvuD Y7bfkyD23V5kU+5MPtwu6sDbfZk9a2tHF+1b9tgRBCK3pbeENp JSVq1QMg15Vk1RJmZLj82QXian38GTSr4ew+T8cx6yQNJpRhvZ EPG3T Cc: shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] [Bulk] Smart thermostat ? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Last year I upgraded my house to Nests. The first one (heat & AC on separate systems) was great but when I went to wire the second one, I found the Argo box zone controller didnt like the vampire power draw of it. Luckily they make a dedicated power feed, but I had to run wires for the other thermostats so they can be powered. I love the programmability and the Nest App for setting the heat / AC when coming home, but the install was definitely not as easy as expected. I will vouch for their warranty. I bought all but one use on ebay and they were great on the phone and provided warranty returns quickly. Tim On Oct 30, 2014, at 3:09 PM, steve hochschild wrote: > We bought the Nest, and it works great for us. The house is almost always where we want it. It allows you to easily adjust your preferences, and it is connected, so it knows whether it is hot or cold outside. We luv it, and would buy it again. It cost $250, installed in minutes, and works better than we expected. We live in Austin, and our thermostat is in the entryway... > > > On 10/30/2014 1:10 PM, David Cole wrote: >> I'm looking to upgrade the thermostat in my new-to-me home. They claim to >> reduce heating and cooling costs. >> >> What brands have the list members used with success? Lots of different >> choices out there for programmable units . 7 day, 5-1-1, 5-2, wifi units, >> self learning, brands, etc. >> >> The Honeywell units seem to be common at the local big box stores. Any good? >> >> For hvac I have a heat pump. American Standard 4 Ton split unit >> >> Thanks >> David Cole >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk@autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shochschild@att.net > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/hoerni@cooper.edu _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Oct 30 23:13:13 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DA2C25844A9 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2014 23:13:13 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.61]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 753D4258049A for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2014 23:10:14 -0600 (MDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=d5zqER2vrXoHzFhjkdu2Q6ibaHkCDaspERy+PGLc94tQFnBq48Bcn2YONDIoEQPD; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [172.6.8.99] (helo=[192.168.1.3]) by elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Xk4Wn-0005WU-Hx for Shop-talk@autox.team.net; Fri, 31 Oct 2014 01:13:37 -0400 Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 22:13:19 -0700 From: Brian Kemp User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 To: Shop-Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] HF rotary hammer vs. demolition hammer? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I want more power, but will $160 plus tax and bits make a big difference? Can anyone compare a Harbor Freight rotary hammer such as this one: http://www.harborfreight.com/10-amp-3-in-1-1-18-in-variable-speed-sds-rotary-hammer-69274.html to their demolition hammer like this one: http://www.harborfreight.com/10-amp-120-volt-demolition-hammer-68148-8068.html I have a four year old version of the first, model 97743 (about $70 well spent), and have been using it with 3/4" chisel from this set: http://www.harborfreight.com/2-piece-sds-masonry-flat-chisel-set-42651.html My project is demolition of a bathroom. The rotary hammer in chisel mode has been fair breaking the wall tile, which is metal lath with 1/2" of cement, 1" of cement, then tile. I used a diamond blade in an angle grinder to cut the vertical grout joints to make the tiles pop easier, but I'm at 2.5 days and still have more to go. The tile guy did quality work back in the 1960-70 range. Unfortunately, the galvanized water pipe behind the tile is plugged and cold water barely flows, requiring near full demolition. There are also problems with the drain pipe, so while I'm at it... I want more breaking power, especially since the next step will be to cut a trench in the slab to get at the drain pipe. For the trench, I'll probably drill a series of holes then connect the dots with the pointed chisel, starting at an edge and making small breaks. My question is will I get more breaking power with the demolition hammer? They are both 10 amps and about 3000 beats per minute. The demolition hammer has an impact energy 9 ft. lbs. but that means little to me in comparison and there is no impact specification for the rotary hammer. My other option is to just have the plumber break the trench. I'm getting tired of demolition, but I like electrical and framing. I will hire out the plumbing since there are two bathrooms and the other one is used by my wife and daughters, so time is very important once that work starts. By the way, if anyone needs to drill a 1" hole through a 10" poured concrete foundation, a rotary hammer like one of these is the way to go. I now only use my 1/2" hammer drill for tiny things like Tapcon screw holes. Shop content - this bathroom is an apartment under the garage (hill side home, garage at street level at the top). As part of this project, I'm also installing a sub-panel, so I can get real power in the garage and run my 15A compressor without unplugging the living room entertainment center and pulsing the compressor on/off a few times to get it started without tripping the breaker. Thanks, Brian _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Oct 31 07:01:47 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A20382584A00 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2014 07:01:47 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-lb0-f174.google.com (mail-lb0-f174.google.com [209.85.217.174]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50DF22580871 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2014 06:53:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-lb0-f174.google.com with SMTP id z11so4108383lbi.33 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2014 05:56:57 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=SyKcBgkjocU/EndVIghDLxujsoTXH7y7gwatHIKO1Z4=; b=xlF6W6gXgh6fa5glwtUsc8hUoV9quY6RWMD7dloaYlGUa5tBMmOHWxusdWtk3WGxaK UbXDLc4QEgCffH9cs+bi74zaMsZ1Nf9PyV7Pt/cNWrkjk8habiF/Nyqj37c/UFz2YRJv ycygZlhl3GV3rko6wAvf+svrsQOtYB45T+0GKTY8XVgxy1kxsktgwIi6McZfP5Ku3Q0r T3lUEWV30zydoQBVSixcIYV1LQsMvqbjOVr1/UxjU3+zPi4wXhYjDktEXUKDUtqA2vHz vnr3NFV8+cFI5YPY2BfPv0U1HebvX99AzPz8EJMKlk0vXXJedKpxJDxhESEJ7bFzhBaB J2wQ== dd10mr26223676lad.45.1414760217727; Fri, 31 Oct 2014 05:56:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.49.17 with HTTP; Fri, 31 Oct 2014 05:56:57 -0700 (PDT) References: <54531A6F.8070408@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2014 08:56:57 -0400 From: Jeff Scarbrough To: Brian Kemp Cc: Shop-Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] HF rotary hammer vs. demolition hammer? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 1:13 AM, Brian Kemp wrote: > My question is will I get more breaking power with the demolition hammer? > They are both 10 amps and about 3000 beats per minute. The demolition > hammer has an impact energy 9 ft. lbs. but that means little to me in > comparison and there is no impact specification for the rotary hammer. >From the comments, it seems that the demolition hammer is a one-use tool. Several of the lowest ratings refer to the fact that replacement bits are hard to come by. That would be worth looking into before you buy one... Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres,Gga _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive