From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 1 13:40:44 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 755E642FE1 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2014 13:40:44 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cartman.xxiii.com (lan23.xxiii.com [24.246.172.99]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8547142FCA for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2014 13:40:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (host-173-246-211-60.morrisbb.com [173.246.211.60] (may be forged)) by cartman.xxiii.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s01KcVdA018836 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2014 15:38:31 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wc5813@gmail.com) Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2014 15:38:28 -0500 From: w User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <81ve1n01a0NyJgq011vfdk> <000b01cf05dc$69407650$3bc162f0$@cox.net> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Installing a Network device in a safe. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On 12/30/2013 10:57 PM, ElanS4 wrote: >> I'm an IT pro and have had to deal with backups for decades. > > Me too, or at least I used to be. Years ago, I used to back up my work > system (a VAX) onto 8mm digital video tape and carry the backup home with me Cool ;) Love me some VAXen and Exabytes (or used to). USB flash drives are so cheap now, that's the way to go. Just do not depend on only one or limited ability to back-track. Have you heard about the "cryptolocker" thing? It's both ingenious and despicable. Friend's company got it and it chewed up files on their servers, and they were syncing to a SINGLE other media, so the messed up files over wrote the good versions. Someone should be fired over it; but at least it's a good lesson for others in the biz. -Wayne _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 1 13:47:28 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5A4A4300D for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2014 13:47:28 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from smtprelay.hostedemail.com (smtprelay0133.hostedemail.com [216.40.44.133]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 116C942FCA for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2014 13:47:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from filter.hostedemail.com (ff-bigip1 [10.5.19.254]) by smtprelay05.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E0EF269149 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2014 20:45:47 +0000 (UTC) RULES_HIT:41:355:379:599:854:857:973:988:989:1187:1260:1261:1277:1311:1313:1314:1345:1359:1437:1515:1516:1518:1534:1541:1593:1594:1711:1730:1747:1777:1792:2194:2197:2199:2200:2393:2559:2562:2736:2739:2828:3138:3139:3140:3141:3142:3353:3622:3865:3867:3868:3870:3872:3873:3874:4250:5007:7652:7903:7904:7974:8531:8957:9036:10004:10400:10450:10455:10848:11232:11658:11914:12517:12519:12663:12740:13069:13075:13311:13357:19904:19999, 0, RBL:none, CacheIP:none, Bayesian:0.5, 0.5, 0.5, Netcheck:none, DomainCache:0, MSF:not bulk,SPF:fn,MSBL:0,DNSBL:none,Custom_rules:0:0:0 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (wsip-98-173-222-110.sb.sd.cox.net [98.173.222.110]) (Authenticated sender: mikey@firewoodpizza.com) by omf02.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2014 20:45:46 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2014 12:45:43 -0800 From: Mike Rambour User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <81ve1n01a0NyJgq011vfdk> <000b01cf05dc$69407650$3bc162f0$@cox.net> <52C47CC4.70208@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Installing a Network device in a safe. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Hey, I still run a VAX (OpenAlpha). Its a great webserver and file server, no one knows how to hack it :) I have a Buffalo RAID device and its wonderful, just enough heat and air circulation to keep rust away from the guns in the safe. mike On 1/1/2014 12:38 PM, w wrote: > On 12/30/2013 10:57 PM, ElanS4 wrote: >>> I'm an IT pro and have had to deal with backups for decades. >> >> Me too, or at least I used to be. Years ago, I used to back up my work >> system (a VAX) onto 8mm digital video tape and carry the backup home >> with me > > Cool ;) Love me some VAXen and Exabytes (or used to). > > USB flash drives are so cheap now, that's the way to go. Just do not > depend on only one or limited ability to back-track. Have you heard > about the "cryptolocker" thing? It's both ingenious and despicable. > Friend's company got it and it chewed up files on their servers, and > they were syncing to a SINGLE other media, so the messed up files over > wrote the good versions. Someone should be fired over it; but at least > it's a good lesson for others in the biz. > > -Wayne _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 1 15:45:18 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B10642FF0 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2014 15:45:18 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from eastrmfepo202.cox.net (eastrmfepo202.cox.net [68.230.241.217]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A426542FCC for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2014 15:43:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from eastrmimpo210 ([68.230.241.225]) by eastrmfepo202.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.01.05.09 201-2260-151-124-20120717) with ESMTP id <20140101224136.ZUSF3871.eastrmfepo202.cox.net@eastrmimpo210> for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2014 17:41:36 -0500 Received: from Joanna ([72.209.198.214]) by eastrmimpo210 with cox id 8mhX1n0024e2Beo01mhb60; Wed, 01 Jan 2014 17:41:36 -0500 a=z+JOQeSqIXLCGjBsmWTDRw==:17 a=uPEAkgtr_EIA:10 a=G8Uczd0VNMoA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=kviXuzpPAAAA:8 a=PzuYhx7Z-dYA:10 a=UTiEgQ2c9V_-t4d_dO8A:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=BZmVltuH7mrljw0H:21 a=MNBf4usC3xqwIH3x:21 a=z+JOQeSqIXLCGjBsmWTDRw==:117 Authentication-Results: cox.net; none From: "ElanS4" To: References: <81ve1n01a0NyJgq011vfdk> <000b01cf05dc$69407650$3bc162f0$@cox.net> <8kfY1n00B0NyJgq01kfZRo> Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2014 17:41:31 -0500 Thread-Index: AQD1OJBUESVMyzcGfqvYTrcAq72wZAIqUvgSAcUn6k8CG/Ax75vztzVA Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Installing a Network device in a safe. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > Cool ;) Love me some VAXen and Exabytes (or used to). > > USB flash drives are so cheap now, that's the way to go. Back when I first started with the VAX, it was the top of the line VAX 780, with all the options (for a classified project). We actually had two 512 MB fixed drives and a 250 Meg removable drive. All three were the size of a washing machine. The removable drive was one of those multi disk platter things with the plastic housing you slipped down to clamp on and remove it. And the VAX had a full 12 meg of memory - not 12 gig, 12 meg. My cell phone has more computing power than that thing had, and it's an old out dated "dumb" phone. Back in the simple days, when things were simpler, and cars had points. Tim Mullen _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 1 16:05:32 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D28543006 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2014 16:05:32 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm17.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm17.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [216.109.114.40]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E8A6342FCF for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2014 16:05:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from [66.196.81.158] by nm17.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2014 23:03:47 -0000 Received: from [98.138.104.99] by tm4.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2014 23:03:47 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp119.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2014 23:03:47 -0000 j7.imS.ioBeDADFBJDlI8cBfCLe0RO9dx0_JQQWXDuJI9wj.QQYVv5MbJu84 enVX69rdiFJrkwsIZP3pLk.VbWv2w2KIyaP1oxs40XTKPDP0cXo8LtwsPBtM NnOvmyBCzDFAPSbEGfuj_7oiAd9bRGyAk0RO66ObZaJfBcTW_t7VEyAZkjRP mxIt9OhiJp7i_CU8s0XoNKKyC3EQzQG3.WeJ88kmHU_tWoYxPy_2KGSsWXt_ AaW7jYcxXqwRQ3VTln2SypuVAMa4qMO2kCA8Ix2Pr5WzM0Q979jk_JXjOq8Q A7xYEFq0ADZcvPfldgWPyXoPNF7SAP97iOWtaT3A0b9mInLH7sMJcl_UB6WM xmE7mL9w_Du0zAQ9XnRQXHEFBw8M21_dzhWwPZ_ZpaiSw3EL8vPuaTqsftic OFwKqouy_5cQP_nwypSpKaBRbjvrUqGE9QPPZ4cdZhGdXLWecjZJHH7HSAYF VP2DRr.QG3iFI4TsYS19BXdlQlig4sZN7eW3.PGkYGcPwHh8qocCJqW2opua oQ95jBdQow4.Jdw-- [98.138.31.74]) by smtp119.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 01 Jan 2014 23:03:47 +0000 UTC From: "Karl Vacek" To: "'ElanS4'" , References: <81ve1n01a0NyJgq011vfdk> <000b01cf05dc$69407650$3bc162f0$@cox.net> <8kfY1n00B0NyJgq01kfZRo> <002b01cf0742$9f6499c0$de2dcd40$@cox.net> Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2014 17:03:48 -0600 Thread-Index: AQD1OJBUESVMyzcGfqvYTrcAq72wZAIqUvgSAcUn6k8CG/Ax7wDwoz+Qm+w4EDA= Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Installing a Network device in a safe. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net That was called a disk pack. New in the late 60's. In the same time period at Western Electric Hawthorne Works our IBM 360/20 (we used it for a glorified tab machine) would get payroll info from Western Electric Atlanta over an acoustic modem. I don't recall for certain any more but I think it was slower than 300 baud. Karl -----Original Message----- From: ElanS4 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Installing a Network device in a safe. We actually had two 512 MB fixed drives and a 250 Meg removable drive. All three were the size of a washing machine. The removable drive was one of those multi disk platter things with the plastic housing you slipped down to clamp on and remove it. Tim Mullen _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 1 16:16:37 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D0604302D for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2014 16:16:37 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from bradakis.com (50-198-190-18-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.198.190.18]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E344F42FCF for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2014 16:13:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from bradakis.com (50-198-190-18-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.198.190.18]) by bradakis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 097F6A034F for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2014 16:11:54 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2014 16:11:54 -0700 From: Mark J Bradakis User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:25.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/25.0 SeaMonkey/2.22.1 To: 'shop-talk List' Subject: [Shop-talk] Computer stuff Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I started doing my high school homework on an IBM 1620. And after a quarter of a century as a sys admin at the U of U, and about that long with Team.Net, I've seen a lot of changes. I keep thinking I should spend a day or so digging out ALL the computer stuff I have stashed away in various places around the house, put it all in one big pile and post a few pictures. RealSoonNow. As an example I have a Seagate 1 Gig SCSI drive sitting here with a red UU property tag on it. Back then, 1 Gig was so expensive the disk was considered a capital asset. I can't find the file I put together that showed the list price of the system on my desk at work was worth 3 times what we paid for our house! And on a side note, thanks to those of you who made use of Paypal and the post office to direct some Christmas cheer towards Team.Net. I'm about 1,300 emails behind since getting back from Christmas in California, I hope to get the through and give thanks where thanks is due. Have a great 2014! mjb. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 1 16:38:38 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4BD942F3F for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2014 16:38:38 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from qmta15.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta15.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.27.228]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5134C42F29 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2014 16:38:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from omta17.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.73]) by qmta15.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 8nVj1n0021afHeLAFncfUf; Wed, 01 Jan 2014 23:36:39 +0000 Received: from Mike ([67.170.9.213]) by omta17.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 8ncm1n0054bn7tf8dncnEh; Wed, 01 Jan 2014 23:36:47 +0000 From: "Mike" To: "Shop Talk" References: <81ve1n01a0NyJgq011vfdk> <000b01cf05dc$69407650$3bc162f0$@cox.net><8kfY1n00B0NyJgq01kfZRo> <002b01cf0742$9f6499c0$de2dcd40$@cox.net> <000301cf0745$bb5e21c0$321a6540$@Ameritech.net> Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2014 15:37:29 -0800 s=q20121106; t=1388619399; bh=9zes77SQbYV4xl+cIjn+N6nDT42AqPoCr/RIxlrvCh8=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=Q+Idi2xR4uxoa74aUkNiEN0iLeB9iPghEF/y/2V38vYPqOZOG4rL4bz7zGSMsKYNl KC77cvEj2NRcJyxoQOqVIe4+m3uYbJZJYf/RVhRbyxfUfePqc40IxrGukEyOkdT0/m z/4lI61r98xbC8QrBYKJ84NkSYusV2/fy9QUsByJZkIUwOjrZJi1O9/ctHxD1ANnFp Oo8QWfJRswBoKxFP+IZjLNTCJ73A7D22nDg38aZUJDBK7asDNr97IJVokTH/9s4Q5w BSiNhDVbpy3V94pY/8DI44L2A51FMRGAXYKWvHb6HiYKSvrnGJNM+IdWU6hJdKDwp3 JuhdUzegynlmg== Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Installing a Network device in a safe. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Ah, the good 'ol days. Back in the early '60s, when our computer was some bamboo that slid back and forth, I was working on highway design, and we needed more accuracy, so we used 15 place log tables for hand calcs. Then, headquarters got a mainframe, and we would fill out forms, which would be couriered to Sacramento (meaning somebody drove up there from SFO), and we would get the answers back the next day. Of course, by that time we had done it all by hand, so we could check to see if the computer did it right. Mike _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 1 19:08:24 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90AA040417 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2014 19:08:24 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.120]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31B2A403E7 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2014 18:58:51 -0700 (MST) a=iHrfZUqj8pI4/cobIDz1/A==:17 a=s9ZoQaHFxoIA:10 a=05ChyHeVI94A:10 a=ExDAyBU5CxkA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=KGjhK52YXX0A:10 a=OPri1eZ7xuUA:10 a=vnREMb7VAAAA:8 a=U9np9zjt6CdY9QD2JTIA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=t4fEMkN2Tb8A:10 a=tYjToLtOmK7U7Uno:21 a=C3bMrCsNzeVfbz_M:21 a=iHrfZUqj8pI4/cobIDz1/A==:117 Received: from [76.168.149.236] ([76.168.149.236:55001] helo=rypc) by cdptpa-oedge01.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 07/CD-00868-B77C4C25; Thu, 02 Jan 2014 01:57:15 +0000 From: "Randall" To: "'shop-talk List'" Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2014 17:57:17 -0800 Thread-index: Ac8HR1b0f7D5+JHvSmuKXnm6fGk/1QAFgelA Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Computer stuff Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > I keep thinking I should spend a day or so digging out ALL > the computer stuff I have > stashed away in various places around the house, put it all > in one big pile and post > a few pictures. Sounds like a fun project. I sure wish I knew what happened to the 16kb of core memory that I used to have hanging on my office wall (PC board about 8" square and 1/2" thick), but it somehow got lost during a move. Most of the other stuff (like the Z80 fully loaded with 64kb of RAM and a whopping 5Mb hard drive) I've thrown away over the years. Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 1 19:40:09 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8C9440400 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2014 19:40:07 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-wi0-f176.google.com (mail-wi0-f176.google.com [209.85.212.176]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8120403E9 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2014 19:30:18 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-wi0-f176.google.com with SMTP id hq4so18277074wib.3 for ; Wed, 01 Jan 2014 18:28:40 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=O/tMived4eE/IDAQTbyca+x9JefLSfo8r7cYmxqW2Vs=; b=ON2yw+saEXp3eFpHYKxdVuPnzBEtsmhZInF9KjpJcIxkBpAINFrtJEvOlNqUaIr/N+ 31xY6uwJIbB8/z8OMSEB+nsL6gU76qmdt+bkahp1+C1Bz1i69of0GhpB9tpl7O1maUK8 0XRWLbCnBZ2UYtObBufW7MeXkf9ssXpu9dhv8pihHmkEsNeJKpw312snCUslg+NzluOR hZW4V1Gg7WpMiR7y9UWZrSwYTc4cDcwc8W9+XxD9tRACLY5O7yS5UsqI+MzCdOaoDfQN bFxa08DI6TEpjx1C0nRTv7RFxGfp5QUxePKOcaLLNUWvuQqUPIt4AEkmQNTTDRS5Yq0F +t0A== k18mr52798607wic.44.1388629720158; Wed, 01 Jan 2014 18:28:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.194.136.230 with HTTP; Wed, 1 Jan 2014 18:28:40 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2014 21:28:40 -0500 From: Benjamin Zwissler To: Shop-Talk List Subject: [Shop-talk] Ultrasonic Cleaners Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I'm considering an ultrasonic cleaner for small parts (automotive and hobby parts). This would include metal parts as well as plastic. For examples, today I was cleaning the side market lights on my TR8 and thought it would be handy to clean the insides and crevices. Anyone have recommendations for the cleaning unit and what cleanings fluids to use? I see several units at about 2-2.5 liter capacity for the $100 range. I'd like to go bigger but the price seems to go up fast. People seem to use Simple Green and similar water based detergents. Thanks, Ben..... _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 1 19:57:18 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ED2040523 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2014 19:57:18 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-wg0-f42.google.com (mail-wg0-f42.google.com [74.125.82.42]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2448A40400 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2014 19:46:09 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-wg0-f42.google.com with SMTP id a1so15851915wgh.5 for ; Wed, 01 Jan 2014 18:44:29 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=xBCTx6URIiH7WBQFymVP5/1qOZ3itBLZz1n0wfkWpPM=; b=cXyP/Oifz2QKlSX0UVJHkpwAudZxGUZfaTSAtCmimSpMBYLqjgRoikpBbhf7OfiwKk ajMRkshszUt04hNqEMmcUekx+cFPwo4B4IRYVs82yTiJRgmhWUcAE97CqP/aqAjSmWnr vVH4d+4B5QWL0cVTGpilAh6tfLhKsm8EBPLP+gwJmM0GubicmbP/efdTFyBf98zgxITK DOZ2UPHT0WgieiU6eHGCt3AqWg6SzfF4ZYms/cSWVxVV52d0TpQyrMreUTUNh59epHIV mwXKnTO2+GjpDCX5oMZQF0sLu7WM6fUnFgQiWVLrRL1B41We2r07Qbsp9bI3dX3Cz7zx wAaA== c4mr4928542wjy.57.1388630669614; Wed, 01 Jan 2014 18:44:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.216.20.144 with HTTP; Wed, 1 Jan 2014 18:44:29 -0800 (PST) References: <52C4A0BA.1060202@bradakis.com> Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2014 20:44:29 -0600 From: "Elton E. (Tony) Clark" To: Mark J Bradakis Cc: shop-talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Computer stuff Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net *When I clean out my storage building; I'll have 3 Texas Instrument 99/4 computers and a cubic yard of expansion boxes and program cartridges. Over in the corner is an Apple 2C with all it's gear. . . why don't I get rid of all this history? * Tony On 1 January 2014 17:11, Mark J Bradakis wrote: > I started doing my high school homework on an IBM 1620. And after a > quarter of a > century as a sys admin at the U of U, and about that long with Team.Net, > I've seen a > lot of changes. > > I keep thinking I should spend a day or so digging out ALL the computer > stuff I have > stashed away in various places around the house, put it all in one big > pile and post > a few pictures. RealSoonNow. As an example I have a Seagate 1 Gig SCSI > drive sitting > here with a red UU property tag on it. Back then, 1 Gig was so expensive > the disk was > considered a capital asset. I can't find the file I put together that > showed the list > price of the system on my desk at work was worth 3 times what we paid for > our house! > > And on a side note, thanks to those of you who made use of Paypal and the > post office > to direct some Christmas cheer towards Team.Net. I'm about 1,300 emails > behind since > getting back from Christmas in California, I hope to get the through and > give thanks where > thanks is due. > > Have a great 2014! > > mjb. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/ > options/shop-talk/eltonclark@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 1 20:03:21 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FCDA42F1E for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2014 20:03:21 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-wg0-f46.google.com (mail-wg0-f46.google.com [74.125.82.46]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A31C5403F9 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2014 19:51:32 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-wg0-f46.google.com with SMTP id m15so11842823wgh.1 for ; Wed, 01 Jan 2014 18:49:55 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=j3g4rSmfYpt87ginajBPxU7dMLwJbE9LZ4nmN0xGTu0=; b=tB+L67SlDsohkf03Z1z1EwIyv7x3rl555cQSfxIeRthPp80l2QX21OQT9MHK2759WZ BWsIufYNcHTnMapszgmBjsrkLG6aMrbMRWth1epSr82r6oTwkAVwFC4UPFXRPVi9/Ze9 c7miN7jTQR8sFx2xJy2NNmUFNyHCF+fKaq3Ml3MhkhvPKzvanHMtub4SVm3d5TAh72/m mPLESp/h6Q4DSNys9UflPiPyqRAQ16K9xEVmRBqpvDPdbRXECXcQSDDskyISPqSe5iyO TYE5SqPD1NCVS3Ipq3pBLvRR0H2aS1mUPzPan3DChE3CR0XG3MSIIPcYJdgo+eQEkeN8 ZpfA== c4mr4939321wjy.57.1388630994988; Wed, 01 Jan 2014 18:49:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.216.20.144 with HTTP; Wed, 1 Jan 2014 18:49:54 -0800 (PST) References: Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2014 20:49:54 -0600 From: "Elton E. (Tony) Clark" To: Shop-Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Ultrasonic Cleaners Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I used a 2 liter unit for years with Simple Green with good results on small engine carburetors and auto engine carburetor parts. I'll be interested in what other people have learned about this useful device. On 1 January 2014 20:28, Benjamin Zwissler wrote: > I'm considering an ultrasonic cleaner for small parts (automotive and hobby > parts). This would include metal parts as well as plastic. For examples, > today I was cleaning the side market lights on my TR8 and thought it would > be handy to clean the insides and crevices. Anyone have recommendations > for the cleaning unit and what cleanings fluids to use? I see several > units at about 2-2.5 liter capacity for the $100 range. I'd like to go > bigger but the price seems to go up fast. People seem to use Simple Green > and similar water based detergents. > > Thanks, Ben..... > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eltonclark@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 1 20:13:16 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09B0040417 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2014 20:13:16 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from filter01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net (filter01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net [66.133.183.226]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0D1E40409 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2014 20:05:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by filter01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 534181043D5 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2014 03:04:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from relay01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net ([66.133.182.164]) by localhost (filter01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net [66.133.183.226]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id OzzlqdcNZT5p for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2014 03:04:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unknown [192.182.148.204]) by relay01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id C88E960A2 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2014 03:04:06 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2014 19:04:08 -0800 From: Dave C User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 To: 'shop-talk List' References: <07.CD.00868.B77C4C25@cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Computer stuff Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On 1/1/2014 5:57 PM, Randall wrote: >> I keep thinking I should spend a day or so digging out ALL >> the computer stuff I have >> stashed away in various places around the house, put it all >> in one big pile and post >> a few pictures. I still have my first computer, a1981 Seequa Chameleon "transportable" suitcase computer that had both an 8081 and a Z80 chip and would run both DOS and CPM. It came with two 160 K (I think) full height floppy drives and 128 K of RAM. I eventually upgraded it to half height, double sided drives and 256 K of ram. The motherboard wouldn't support a HDD. At one point it had a 300 baud Volksmodem hung off the side, but it was pretty useless for much pre-WWW stuff. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 1 21:15:04 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C2184044D for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2014 21:15:04 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm5-vm5.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (nm5-vm5.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [216.39.63.123]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 0135740409 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2014 21:12:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from [216.39.60.176] by nm5.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jan 2014 04:10:21 -0000 Received: from [98.138.104.98] by tm12.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jan 2014 04:10:21 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp118.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jan 2014 04:10:20 -0000 s=s1024; t=1388635820; bh=OJ68+hRlZJe/hDtlOwTvThLdIc/dTPSxBg9QAPanU8c=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-Rocket-Received:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:Message-ID:References:In-Reply-To:User-Agent:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Antivirus:X-Antivirus-Status; b=WQUfg97BeNoch97hEFWx7z9hzKeic8WjQS2P+IVlKRzREwq8Ike6FbO0RtoafbjBaCprcrr7/y+BQYxBH+K/2yOi91z01rLt0o5xXUeSwm6m370E/ibM70cmj9qqsDpkmpEB4QwWK4eZy2727mc2LgxYeBodXd6UbROT/cQGuWI= U3TRMJbyQ4w_5R4TH_.fj8_E72ocJif4EUIZXTY0eDSfSkFYcND0yny05IXL _ta4i8n_J1jyitMYp8BvMGLH27Z3u4MzHqW6VDYNeyBOXe0HGwMrfP1Fca7G qBDBA3QyRy5WaqHALNbu6jo95dEBkd_zsnpl.uVhOI_XmUdhCcH.AmJG2pVE YbE4sUHnvcexpcoF1D7pc2mpHUICj9JA3i4sorN7GkaRF_32CB1XXLEOVwND t.Ow2sLqS_oPWhU3pihyf3CGO36WgJJGaTExt7yN3vKpHrDX9Syx8w2u_AV6 jpuD6Lb1Cl708Z0VIfmTs0ZtFo9rubzNkbbqhJ2ae80wdljqeyWRHiIv8LZG LoUvty4oEp7KQaWNFADqhjeDbdsfErzsmT3pIJ_rhlNO2v7WNSk7opTlKNrT 73gZiM8TP_zRDzRVlqNMQ0y2FJeNQ1Qtb8rdDvsKqYEXE0PxhN.IKNH5symP gIaixVhEV0lM2QKvlCxOljitPPjQGtuE4ZlYV7iXBF38KPXm3LyMfLzhb4na kTN8cCXB7XubcIp0F6UtA7ChOYyC.p6mwkzUBmS8cKsNvsKPaM7r2jzzENQ- - [98.138.31.74]) by smtp118.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 02 Jan 2014 04:10:20 +0000 UTC From: rwil@sbcglobal.net To: Mark J Bradakis Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2014 20:10:19 -0800 References: <52C4A0BA.1060202@bradakis.com> User-Agent: ForteAgent/7.20.32.1218 Cc: 'shop-talk List' Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Computer stuff Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net My first computer at Douglas Aircraft was an IBM 704. At JPL it was a 709 and then a 7094 (transistorized). We wrote in machine language and Fortran and punched cards with each instruction line. 32K of memory and tape drives. Our link to Goldstone was via 5-hole Teletype paper tape, fed into a reader at JPL. Amazing what you can do with a little computing power. We needed 16-digit precision and I wonder what is used now to get that precision and possibly more. JPL had one "Square Root Friden" calculator that we could use to verify the programming. A year later in grad school I was back to a 1620 like MJB. -Roland On Wed, 01 Jan 2014 16:11:54 -0700, MJB wrote: >I started doing my high school homework on an IBM 1620. And after a >quarter of a >century as a sys admin at the U of U, and about that long with Team.Net, >I've seen a >lot of changes. > >I keep thinking I should spend a day or so digging out ALL the computer >stuff I have >stashed away in various places around the house, put it all in one big >pile and post >a few pictures. RealSoonNow. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 1 21:16:00 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6331642F6D for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2014 21:16:00 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ob0-f175.google.com (mail-ob0-f175.google.com [209.85.214.175]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D59FF4044D for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2014 21:13:04 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-ob0-f175.google.com with SMTP id uz6so13888094obc.6 for ; Wed, 01 Jan 2014 20:11:26 -0800 (PST) d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=SVpMm6Z3VQaFlWsuMIC41OYwuNxlxn7tKvRVXNFYTEE=; b=lP639K8KbuZrv0s6jNNrpH89/Ic79cshXDyuGg0m16dzLRnYRtsXqGnEEFtjTitZuY 2EwecuV+EEuM2e9GzYmI/dwpcJPsHdhtu7mUZ4q9E2uT/UZIVpJqlhtjsE5OkMoDZniY liLywjPZcAGjnRWUAGyhHOelDYdEb514jNuC1rt6HYk2tS7/IrNELfL28YDPL0sf6Ucp S39qo0Yxf0mHbyqvpj/xAYK51nJUjivNg4/oEjIa1cmH2AJA0d8GEbhAHc4qTsEIh03W jyNual7bsGDm/2l4x+dG3hferDsU+cOEt5uXKHy+Hd8wgkdLyhaFd2CR81V22XUQaOK9 2nOw== m9mr2842078oet.58.1388635886564; Wed, 01 Jan 2014 20:11:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.182.134.231 with HTTP; Wed, 1 Jan 2014 20:11:26 -0800 (PST) References: <000b01cf05dc$69407650$3bc162f0$@cox.net> <002b01cf0742$9f6499c0$de2dcd40$@cox.net> Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2014 23:11:26 -0500 From: Doug Braun To: ElanS4 Cc: Shop-Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Installing a Network device in a safe. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I used one of those in school and in my first job. A year or two ago I visited the Computer History Museum in Mountain View, CA, and they had one on display. It's funny when something you remember new is now an antique... Doug On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 5:41 PM, ElanS4 wrote: > > > Back when I first started with the VAX, it was the top of the line VAX 780, > with all the options (for a classified project). We actually had two 512 > MB > fixed drives and a 250 Meg removable drive. All three were the size of a > washing machine. The removable drive was one of those multi disk platter > things with the plastic housing you slipped down to clamp on and remove it. > And the VAX had a full 12 meg of memory - not 12 gig, 12 meg. My cell > phone > has more computing power than that thing had, and it's an old out dated > "dumb" phone. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 1 21:16:23 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25BE742F17 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2014 21:16:23 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ob0-f177.google.com (mail-ob0-f177.google.com [209.85.214.177]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BEE4403A6 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2014 21:16:17 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-ob0-f177.google.com with SMTP id vb8so13767280obc.8 for ; Wed, 01 Jan 2014 20:14:40 -0800 (PST) d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=YlsBDz5botUJ1KKaRY+z/CKlDU5v9bexFKvF6e0255k=; b=Xxo36YoxUKzwL0nNZ47ubx5/LE0lS7XTg/UnO1XBG0dNKVKXOcyINmTvMWPCeBtZWT 5wY5uBiqqfgIJ44briTRJrqZXQ5jReWzSFbCgYQv17bjgjLCE44cHP4DuMORLZcqB16o ie/UteIezAOBB4cTxsmCWujd7n15NVzN1kp2WL6D+5RA0qBe4s2ki6KIv025XYPa771n ceERXsbr816wouRG8K1wF0oAmVS+MU/tNehPvt6hbgC19ZnupVFbxmEV3Yo74lw2Crc/ Jn1i0brHEHlByesCX092izDiPUAlWls0mYYG+52LLYeFBEJgmU8jtIlB5kCbsAA2WGs2 WovQ== Wed, 01 Jan 2014 20:14:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.182.134.231 with HTTP; Wed, 1 Jan 2014 20:14:40 -0800 (PST) References: Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2014 23:14:40 -0500 From: Doug Braun To: "Elton E. (Tony) Clark" , Shop-Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Ultrasonic Cleaners Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I have a cheapo little one, meant for cleaning jewelry, that came form some place like Brookstone. It does clean stuff, but I have no idea how much better a "real" one would work. I wish there was something like a ultrasonic power meter that you could pip into the bath. Or could you just dip in your finger and tell? Doug On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 9:49 PM, Elton E. (Tony) Clark wrote: > I used a 2 liter unit for years with Simple Green with good results on > small engine carburetors and auto engine carburetor parts. I'll be > interested in what other people have learned about this useful device. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 1 23:19:19 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A3C64043C for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2014 23:19:19 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cartman.xxiii.com (lan23.xxiii.com [24.246.172.99]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B28CE40409 for ; Wed, 1 Jan 2014 22:57:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (host-173-246-211-60.morrisbb.com [173.246.211.60] (may be forged)) by cartman.xxiii.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s025tLGd020372 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2014 00:55:21 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wc5813@gmail.com) Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2014 00:55:18 -0500 From: w User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Ultrasonic Cleaners Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On 1/1/2014 9:28 PM, Benjamin Zwissler wrote: > I'm considering an ultrasonic cleaner for small parts (automotive and hobby > parts). This would include metal parts as well as plastic. For examples, > today I was cleaning the side market lights on my TR8 and thought it would I have the el'cheapo $20 Horrible Freight unit. Usually use a small amount of 409 or Simple Green in it. I can't say the results are spectacular, but it does clean up glasses, jewelery, small parts, etc. -w _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Jan 2 06:31:53 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07C8340441 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2014 06:31:53 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from dogbert2.mail.megageek.com (nj-69-34-94-16.sta.embarqhsd.net [69.34.94.16]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CFB4403F9 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2014 06:27:33 -0700 (MST) To: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net From: eric@megageek.com Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2014 08:03:20 -0500 7.0.1|January 17, 2006) at 01/02/2014 08:03:22, Serialize complete at 01/02/2014 08:03:22 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Ultrasonic Cleaners Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Ben, This is the one I got. It works pretty well. All the ones I looked at that were 'heated' all state that you should use water only. http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200365419_200365419 If you are in NJ, you can stop by and give it a try! 8>) Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Jan 2 09:59:15 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D9AC40525 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2014 09:59:15 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79D4C4040A for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2014 09:59:07 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-ob0-f182.google.com with SMTP id wp4so14597978obc.41 for ; Thu, 02 Jan 2014 08:57:27 -0800 (PST) d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=l3m/4XUDxbPJpASHs0BL4FyVLwmox/81eSsICFNm+Lc=; b=PquEWb1H/PsbkpDfOgmY9IeVPJryU84IkvKe0pWZonV+RQJRZOPu3KSFtAxsFh54gm uki8Ff3TqiwiWh4vhP7cxiVdf+ElZPaUqBOLUezNqrD9X5iQMKzRWAjocT8C3aMZmuCN ufMsZqDcTCKj5/KbEtx66VmKKlSEAZ1fKWbEE41JuhkAgbdssRviNLxeJ12ifqR1TBep QCKHgrXT8JCwhfCOXDRKbmRdYWI/JsSxT/UYruDiMRgxiXoebL+bsmdQ1/FwjHvOmBwd 34DPXw0bKy5MWFP+eTZIxtyT/rRpS2pla5s+EIH2pYP8oRXsdJw85RFbDuen3GmOsaT1 Sp0w== bp15mr482744oec.83.1388681847751; Thu, 02 Jan 2014 08:57:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.182.134.231 with HTTP; Thu, 2 Jan 2014 08:57:27 -0800 (PST) References: <1846597984.205525.1388671950169.JavaMail.root@sz0220a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2014 11:57:27 -0500 From: Doug Braun To: "Elton E. (Tony) Clark" , Shop-Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Ultrasonic Cleaners Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net If I stick my finger in my cheapo mini-cleaner, it stings a bit, but doesn't hurt afterwards. I should probably be on the lookout for a better one... Doug On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 11:26 AM, Elton E. (Tony) Clark wrote: > *I dabbled in my ultrasonic* *with one finger to reposition something and > had a very sore knuckle for a week or so.* _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Jan 2 10:13:20 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8ACE40511 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2014 10:13:20 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-we0-f180.google.com (mail-we0-f180.google.com [74.125.82.180]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE2814040A for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2014 10:13:09 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-we0-f180.google.com with SMTP id t61so12804589wes.11 for ; Thu, 02 Jan 2014 09:11:29 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=25R3NcscvCEoM/iNJvvTOWME/HZitOVkDPbggHGh7Jk=; b=E2m9aGts1oLAXzzrD3mZq4i50Q7haFsE4g/c9hCVAba27Ji3hTQH/mWVKb47eEGc9u 0sjwl7LvEy2JFV3KUPZj80k8+RpJQ1PjFjzTymFduqz4GL1NYSY1JszQlBxmawYWCX3P UStUAT5CXI6xljTamqzEC3Ig0GroyiHItrc0FddWq1OQAK7pJld0bgeSBAFaVcrssCwH MmWXuDb5gp+WJKvlDD6qkX+F+AU74B5sMK0Ot2/QyPZZ2cAUB1cNxj9zZr4UpEJpT8Lr ee1u8O2IGYjQoJAD766RSgKJjOYeGKD64GSv6NHw+plNEKqF7y3Ap48CYN/gYN5VW/j7 inIA== hk4mr55922791wib.12.1388682688946; Thu, 02 Jan 2014 09:11:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.216.20.144 with HTTP; Thu, 2 Jan 2014 09:11:28 -0800 (PST) References: <1846597984.205525.1388671950169.JavaMail.root@sz0220a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2014 11:11:28 -0600 From: "Elton E. (Tony) Clark" To: Doug Braun Cc: Shop-Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Ultrasonic Cleaners Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On 2 January 2014 10:57, Doug Braun wrote: > If I stick my finger in my cheapo mini-cleaner, it stings a bit, but > doesn't hurt afterwards. > I should probably be on the lookout for a better one... > A better one might hurt worse! I think it's a good idea to keep one's fingers out of the solution while it's running _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Jan 2 13:40:43 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94DB740546 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2014 13:40:43 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm9-vm0.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm9-vm0.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [98.139.213.154]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 942E0403F5 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2014 13:39:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from [98.139.212.149] by nm9.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jan 2014 20:38:07 -0000 Received: from [98.139.212.248] by tm6.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jan 2014 20:38:07 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1057.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jan 2014 20:38:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 46064 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Jan 2014 20:38:07 -0000 s=s1024; t=1388695087; bh=HBR0SoMCUH3tIoeRLrqH0rLYpLhRGoviaYa6GSeZYHE=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=V+Yz59Kjd5kSej+v4OIuqG5dd46iQh3l6zjTkVa+3MQ2huotpM0G2zJrDAnpvMFNp7ipQ0qPF9zqJSOnmRu3NaOnmNyjkPjfDbzJ5unm29dLcLejYPwNpwwa822ND8tJTo/NwL3BA7pmSdRAmpQmp3xMGg2ylhDJ3FdqPBm9pdw= s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=vLvaahtowKNLl3nz65r/2jO5DnzmvqL1shRND6G+cOM6ybhFgy9VUSupaBMWinbAwCvILW0IkWWXvYrYwuM4jcrjpxoPTkIphDw91nmUeV5X8LQDGY0/xbPq2kTUhaitPYG4FNQptfSE+Bp9aVqFE8EleHV5n4/4pU+LrWnLLTw=; 8qMp5FvpZSMbDrU4yW7jQVDLLFug_2is7PyIIwrT2si0084lm7kvKZHbngbo DB24Ys4E.UuDYyxuaY3feuQtf3TkVqenYTRP93Cd5_q.Q71Va_ykWJa3PIdE ktjN8PdDm1x.DVaQYDZxBp_zJzyb6FhW0l3gW3r93jxZVzcrOcGEO0juc5eV ji65YpfvOCSZ11X0YjNBYKu9ejNSGt1ZECwTAdQ70bP9DcI_fkbLSoLuW9QG wzUOrrINAZIl1cKljGlhKvP8oiQgVzjutHEkVgxwymOp6vW4_aYdfavA9SeU lbsEdYMuQ4k2E.GOGN37XVeeGl1W4M8vOiTk0onUaohyIKvtM1XYK4W4Zm0l VMd_2vBuDmaSvX5m3Gidn2BB8cBkMxg05Z7UiyfLOgVukx7LTDFeJkfgPO8n aYPfLSCw3j_IfqzzyQaKPngY81yxFRhBKWE6dLH_6_34UozOSj9yH5S8fsfx Tnn8bjEHJrsOU_TR6SDAarb0ShpPTMBSFrSdyQ2HCgpO1kldqgx.cY5t0eYL eEKFbDDocko4B Received: from [173.252.176.137] by web140003.mail.bf1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 02 Jan 2014 12:38:07 PST R2VleiwgeW91IGd1eXMgYXJlIGdvaW5nIHRvIG1ha2UgbWUgdGFsayBhYm91dCBteSBIZWF0aEtpdCBsdWdnYWJsZS4gwqA6KQpJdCBzdGlsbCB3b3JrcywgYWx0aG91Z2ggaXTCoHRha2VzIGEgZ29vZCAxNSBtaW51dGVzIHRvIGJvb3Qgb2ZmIHRoZSA1LjI1IiBmbG9wcHkuIMKgTVMtRG9zIDMuMiBJIHRoaW5rLiDCoDI1NksgUkFNLgoKSSBkbyByZWNhbGwgbWVzc2luZyB3aXRowqBDUE0gdG9vLiDCoDopIMKgSSBzdGlsbCBoYXZlIGEgNTZrIG1vZGVtIHNpdHRpbmcgb24gdGhlIGRlc2ssIGJ1dCBpdCBoYXMBMAEBAQE- References: <07.CD.00868.B77C4C25@cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com> <52C4D728.2080705@frontier.com> Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2014 12:38:07 -0800 (PST) From: Battmain To: shoptalk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Computer stuff Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Geez, you guys are going to make me talk about my HeathKit luggable. :) It still works, although it takes a good 15 minutes to boot off the 5.25" floppy. MS-Dos 3.2 I think. 256K RAM. I do recall messing with CPM too. :) I still have a 56k modem sitting on the desk, but it hasn't been used since I moved to DSL (about 19yrs). Then I just got rid of DSL in favor of cable speed. Guys at work are teasing me about changing out my dial up. Only reason I did it was because the video buffering got to be too much. Brian >________________________________ > From: Dave C >To: 'shop-talk List' >Sent: Wednesday, January 1, 2014 10:04 PM >Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Computer stuff > > >On 1/1/2014 5:57 PM, Randall wrote: >>> I keep thinking I should spend a day or so digging out ALL >>> the computer stuff I have >>> stashed away in various places around the house, put it all >>> in one big pile and post >>> a few pictures. >I still have my first computer, a1981 Seequa Chameleon "transportable" >suitcase computer that had both an 8081 and a Z80 chip and would run >both DOS and CPM. It came with two 160 K (I think) full height floppy >drives and 128 K of RAM. I eventually upgraded it to half height, >double sided drives and 256 K of ram. The motherboard wouldn't support a >HDD. At one point it had a 300 baud Volksmodem hung off the side, but >it was pretty useless for much pre-WWW stuff. > >-- _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Jan 2 15:47:45 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B95642FCB for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2014 15:47:45 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from p3plwbeout02-06.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (p3plsmtp02-06-2.prod.phx3.secureserver.net [72.167.218.99]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4771A403E6 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2014 15:45:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost ([72.167.218.118]) by p3plwbeout02-06.prod.phx3.secureserver.net with bizsmtp id 9Ajg1n0012ZrgKL01Ajg7q; Thu, 02 Jan 2014 15:43:40 -0700 Received: (qmail 31779 invoked by uid 99); 2 Jan 2014 22:43:40 -0000 User-Agent: Workspace Webmail 5.6.45 From: To: "Battmain" , "shoptalk" Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2014 15:43:39 -0700 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Computer stuff Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Jan 2 17:17:40 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5E5342FD2 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2014 17:17:40 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from p3plwbeout02-02.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (p3plsmtp02-02-2.prod.phx3.secureserver.net [72.167.218.95]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD2EB42EED for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2014 17:17:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost ([72.167.218.117]) by p3plwbeout02-02.prod.phx3.secureserver.net with bizsmtp id 9CFp1n0012YZzz401CFpV3; Thu, 02 Jan 2014 17:15:50 -0700 Received: (qmail 15173 invoked by uid 99); 3 Jan 2014 00:15:49 -0000 User-Agent: Workspace Webmail 5.6.45 From: To: "Battmain" , "shoptalk" Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2014 17:15:48 -0700 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Computer stuff Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Jan 2 18:48:08 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86E2742FD9 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2014 18:48:08 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from p3plwbeout02-06.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (p3plsmtp02-06-2.prod.phx3.secureserver.net [72.167.218.99]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EBD142FC9 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2014 18:44:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost ([72.167.218.117]) by p3plwbeout02-06.prod.phx3.secureserver.net with bizsmtp id 9DiS1n0012YZzz401DiSkr; Thu, 02 Jan 2014 18:42:26 -0700 Received: (qmail 25848 invoked by uid 99); 3 Jan 2014 01:42:26 -0000 User-Agent: Workspace Webmail 5.6.45 From: To: "Battmain" , "shoptalk" Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2014 18:42:25 -0700 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Computer stuff Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net OK, let's try this again! I have been keeping some old stuff from my past also: NIB programming drum for an IBM 029 card punch/duplicator Sealed TECO manual Osborne luggable computer - works in 1972 when I started working at the University of Texas at Austin they had 300 baud acoustic couplers and a "fast" 1200 baud dedicated line to the mainframe. We used a Data General Nova (not the 800, or 1200, just a NOVA, serial Number 6) Calcomps, a Sigma-5, VAX 11-782, AT&T 3b20 and several others I can't remember what they were. When I was doing some programming at home I connected to campus with one of the acoustic couplers connected to my KSR-33. 110 Baud is all that it would do! My first personal computer was a Ferguson "Big Board" Z-80. with a Persci dual floppy drive on it....who could ask for more! Peace, Pat _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jan 3 15:31:06 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 764CB42FE9 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2014 15:31:06 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-pd0-f178.google.com (mail-pd0-f178.google.com [209.85.192.178]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7001842FD0 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2014 15:30:59 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-pd0-f178.google.com with SMTP id y10so15880193pdj.37 for ; Fri, 03 Jan 2014 14:29:13 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=nqF08vAi4hZtG9A/HR9u5UmEQQWdALuVDYiqzHnEiZ8=; b=dTPTUgAh7J3JoAoSuQ6Osmiw4z5HCXP+3tPCc3j6To09AW6WOZrpJ3rhNkPgoMs85K B7TWkCr9Mr7SzJ6qr7xeXPfxybeKKGswasR/sY5eI/y2+1qaU19UkE0sev1HVjpsttiW wJLbj/P7+Y1g4RuBsY4YCCHhlfdJkrE352/QkwUVUC300KE+q6OoIxxGUS/ek3s84u8T lDCF4FAG/Ad+sxq9JIU1FECaIY7IpccTOvcIZuBMmutn0/wKs8MAsTeZXGiMQ3e+Sux6 wngqsg0cwaxmnZFdkpLKJcF4yKyPPC80GFHqON65YdoFiqrr/Su4W56faWBUV9zsRvwc 121Q== ap1mr97570154pbc.117.1388788153761; Fri, 03 Jan 2014 14:29:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.70.18.97 with HTTP; Fri, 3 Jan 2014 14:29:13 -0800 (PST) References: <20131230.220217.349.0@webmail14.vgs.untd.com> <1C3E2A8D544549A48AE2DAE4DD41AB8A@Antec300> Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2014 16:29:13 -0600 From: David Scheidt To: Jack Brooks Cc: shop-talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Installing a Network device in a safe. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 9:10 PM, Jack Brooks wrote: > Temp - Cooler is better. I don't know what a safe high temperature is. I > suspect every degree higher reduces the life by some factor, but I have no > idea how much. See my earlier post about my server system drive. > > > Google published some data about their drive reliability a few years ago. One of the conclusions was temperature below instant death was not correlated with early drive failure. It's been a long time since I read the paper, but drives run at cool temperatures had a higher early-death rate than drives run hotter. There was a bunch of data in it that was surprising to many people, including that. (and that most disk failures were not predicted by smart. disks smart said were failing did tend to fail.) -- David Scheidt dmscheidt@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 8 12:04:42 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30F9042F3F for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 12:04:42 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from dogbert2.mail.megageek.com (nj-69-34-94-16.sta.embarqhsd.net [69.34.94.16]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4A7E4040A for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 12:03:29 -0700 (MST) To: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net From: eric@megageek.com Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2014 13:38:36 -0500 7.0.1|January 17, 2006) at 01/08/2014 13:38:38, Serialize complete at 01/08/2014 13:38:38 Subject: [Shop-talk] Thermo Imaging camera Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net OK, so I finally sprung for a Thermo Imaging camera. (FLIR E4.) Its really simple to use. I wanted it do find insulation links and other stuff. One of the things I wanted to do was checking circuit breakers to find ones that are about to fail. I checked my box and I found two that are running much hotter then the others. My question is, does this mean that they need to be replaced or is there other testing that I should do on them first? One other question, are there other things I should use this camera for also? Any ideas? Thanks in advance. Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 8 12:17:14 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 414F442F62 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 12:17:14 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from qmta05.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta05.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.48]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1795B40453 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 12:13:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from omta16.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.72]) by qmta05.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id BSMT1n0041ZMdJ4A5XBK2E; Wed, 08 Jan 2014 19:11:19 +0000 Received: from sz0220.ev.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.40.138]) by omta16.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id BXBK1n00K2yr1eL8cXBK9l; Wed, 08 Jan 2014 19:11:19 +0000 Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2014 19:11:19 +0000 (UTC) From: pethier@comcast.net To: eric@megageek.com (Win)/6.0.13_GA_2944) s=q20121106; t=1389208279; bh=ZfQQofCVkOkJwx3bFWoXbkBnTG9SOsKTPWjQN7N5po8=; h=Received:Received:Date:From:To:Message-ID:Subject:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=SWR4gLRZ+knDAIS4h+SbX1baovqB6t1iQX2d6dzfjlfbKCGR7153Z1a3QXYuWMQze uJRVDRMDiBB7Mkbt96ssLTDX4Jlr5RN1ahd+nA/GBLtVlVviQEr6v5ROfUi+Zal83n pSacCIDjLAW5tCgVLzc3aLbTNKxodlaaeC+nydQbycRvHIcgH1vhjlIbMsAto8WEFq mIz9MJO93Onfs/a+QDhCLHFqh9wcJvkUmbbEidSsBRn+dKlXhoXUfzhVbqOwVODULb 1+VdMejkXq/eYF+jCeY7LygUQ5UyN55RT4qGYYPqKQE4Wi9z067Lv8v0/24O5Ufm1A 7LPMYS+RoQlZw== Cc: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Thermo Imaging camera Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Circuit breakers are not that spendy; just do it. Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue 2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red, the only automatic of the bunch 2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4, Berry Red pethier@comcast.net http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier http://www.flickr.com/groups/triumphtransamerica http://www.mnautox.com http://www.mntriumphs.org ----- Original Message ----- > From: eric@megageek.com > To: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net > Sent: Wednesday, January 8, 2014 12:38:36 PM > Subject: [Shop-talk] Thermo Imaging camera > OK, so I finally sprung for a Thermo Imaging camera. (FLIR E4.) > > Its really simple to use. I wanted it do find insulation links and > other > stuff. > > One of the things I wanted to do was checking circuit breakers to find > ones that are about to fail. > > I checked my box and I found two that are running much hotter then the > others. > > My question is, does this mean that they need to be replaced or is > there > other testing that I should do on them first? > > One other question, are there other things I should use this camera > for > also? Any ideas? > > Thanks in advance. > > Eric P _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 8 12:20:36 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 712F9403BA for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 12:20:36 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qc0-f176.google.com (mail-qc0-f176.google.com [209.85.216.176]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DEB2403BA for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 12:20:29 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-qc0-f176.google.com with SMTP id i8so1732536qcq.21 for ; Wed, 08 Jan 2014 11:18:20 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=reLYhQqBx/1tv9p9RvX1GDd1q7VjV0opiQaza5Os1qc=; b=GGL4mjBdhkmI5MPEJAcBmrZi76xdE5SbmmoZJDBctRdbGWGrkYz7z7OPhvnKa4unJX 0k72Zm3M3FYqbCqCSHtNpA4Yx3S/Gq3uzJsTnC+Id89OF4ZzSt8zKZ1s6X/mC9YOFOhx oJUloogHMCbCSOE6qLtTVnuGqFAaCyHT6iQ+P53W9XU8Orgp3bI1HvvS8dLHs9D6aHRP DbUB1HAy9klyMAeAWfAEmh1Ro7ZpYM+YmoTI8ZKuFwvneFTp3+pdKjUrHrmTbTxpt20G Jm4sm+gs3w/3qE1jw5dm9mi8UPHOOSUX3qfW7nAiMkEldFaNIoAxBQ6ZlLZoJflbddlY RiQQ== z14mr21154376qef.20.1389208700053; Wed, 08 Jan 2014 11:18:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.96.165.136 with HTTP; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 11:18:19 -0800 (PST) References: Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2014 13:18:19 -0600 From: John Innis To: eric@megageek.com Cc: shop-talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Thermo Imaging camera Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Remember that all breakers (even brand new, good units) will run warmer when the have increased current flowing through them, What you are looking for are any breakers that are getting too hot. I was told that 55C is a good limit for this application. If the actual temp of the breaker is less than 55C, it's probably fine, more than that it should be replaced. But you should also use some common sense here. If you have a circuit that is only drawing 10 amps, and it is heating the breaker to 50C, that is highly suspicious. If you have a circuit pulling 90amps, then 50C is probably fine. On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 12:38 PM, wrote: > OK, so I finally sprung for a Thermo Imaging camera. (FLIR E4.) > > Its really simple to use. I wanted it do find insulation links and other > stuff. > > One of the things I wanted to do was checking circuit breakers to find > ones that are about to fail. > > I checked my box and I found two that are running much hotter then the > others. > > My question is, does this mean that they need to be replaced or is there > other testing that I should do on them first? > > One other question, are there other things I should use this camera for > also? Any ideas? > > Thanks in advance. > > Eric P > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis@gmail.com > > -- ================================= = Never offend people with style when you = = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = ================================= _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 8 14:13:55 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C518342F2F for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 14:13:55 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.120]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13DE84043C for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 13:38:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([10.127.143.51]) by cdptpa-qmta04.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20140108203534957.XCZC28347@cdptpa-qmta04.mail.rr.com> for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 20:35:34 +0000 a=iHrfZUqj8pI4/cobIDz1/A==:17 a=NdzSoO86QUMA:10 a=05ChyHeVI94A:10 a=ExDAyBU5CxkA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=KGjhK52YXX0A:10 a=yUmSMNb9lZUA:10 a=O5vw3bgeBSQTMN3JTQ0A:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=IcFQoEuqIaAA:10 a=nZ4h_kvodS8A:10 a=iHrfZUqj8pI4/cobIDz1/A==:117 Received: from [76.168.149.236] ([76.168.149.236:55007] helo=rypc) by cdptpa-oedge01.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 03/A3-00868-E16BDC25; Wed, 08 Jan 2014 20:33:34 +0000 From: "Randall" Cc: "'shop-talk'" Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2014 12:33:32 -0800 Thread-Index: Ac8MpmvRxIQK1ff0Ru2YZTZ9NvuVtQACYB+g Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Thermo Imaging camera Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > I was told that 55C is a > good limit for this application. My opinion, that is more of a design limit. With the surrounding box at 25C, the breaker shouldn't be nearly that hot even with maximum rated current flowing continuously. IMO anything more than about 15C rise over ambient is cause for suspicion. But it might not be the breaker at fault. Last time I found one warm to the touch, the wire connection had worked loose and was getting hot. All it needed was cleaning and tightening. Low level overloads (eg 18 amps on a 15 amp breaker) can also get them hot, but not quite hot enough to trip. Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 8 15:09:54 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EC7142FA7 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 15:09:54 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-oa0-f51.google.com (mail-oa0-f51.google.com [209.85.219.51]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C28DD42F29 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 15:09:47 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-oa0-f51.google.com with SMTP id m1so2515168oag.38 for ; Wed, 08 Jan 2014 14:07:38 -0800 (PST) d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=XzYoKg8nMl7DP0nynA0ecqevF7y8KwOpp/ZsKafx8mg=; b=TUe3OI1xRurXDR67Ps021wIkTwL6LvUFs7VuMOLM6nAgM52f+e1sPHrQNuRY4V+y1x oa1cKzA1IZlVRGnQSHbTJgacKUnt3Ue1N3KvDVephGgQu8B31Gjfed0SGIgrvzKWiPYq 5IHt24o9xa47K/BFeDiKvJpK1JAJwB2vzDYS/D9xGQ8Wc8WHAiYfhqNsFlTpDbUo1Gef Hzi06Fya+xVmZCuvedVEMVr7vnrAUiBlavgSOr8+DmKZGDbuHwymTy6zDGHZsIvd+zMm hruJXSshWb8Cyey5MoqpaqcAV2xhN2QKhnEpyrD3lNZiGYjrHEeuLShuCDlVVV/vxJWT /s6w== j6mr8698502oed.47.1389218857851; Wed, 08 Jan 2014 14:07:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.182.134.231 with HTTP; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 14:07:37 -0800 (PST) References: <03.A3.00868.E16BDC25@cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2014 17:07:37 -0500 From: Doug Braun To: Shop-Talk , eric@megageek.com Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Thermo Imaging camera Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net You should certainly be able to check that the wiring connections are OK. You could also pull a suspect breaker from the panel to ensure that it is properly connected to the bus bar. I think loose or corroded connections are more likely to be the cause of the problem than an internal defect. Doug _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 8 15:37:45 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 538C042F0E for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 15:37:45 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from bradakis.com (50-198-190-18-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.198.190.18]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6585A40424 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 15:28:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from bradakis.com (50-198-190-18-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.198.190.18]) by bradakis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD363A034E for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 15:26:02 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2014 15:26:02 -0700 From: Mark J Bradakis User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:26.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/26.0 SeaMonkey/2.23 To: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net References: Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Thermo Imaging camera Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net eric@megageek.com wrote: > One other question, are there other things I should use this camera for > also? Any ideas? > > I remember watching some humorous footage on Youtube about using thermal imaging to show people's farts. mjb. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 8 15:38:05 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BE0C42F80 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 15:38:05 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from qmta13.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta13.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.27.243]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A45544044C for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 15:34:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from omta08.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.12]) by qmta13.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id BZag1n0040FhH24ADaYDlH; Wed, 08 Jan 2014 22:32:13 +0000 Received: from Mike ([67.170.9.213]) by omta08.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id BaYC1n00t4bn7tf8UaYDcx; Wed, 08 Jan 2014 22:32:13 +0000 From: "Mike" To: "Shop Talk" References: <03.A3.00868.E16BDC25@cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2014 14:32:43 -0800 s=q20121106; t=1389220333; bh=9o3oZFiLWEnbpQMhScdQviotFgc7t0w79UR7pXHwSJw=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=SXPz+EB7z0Sb4BtK1vJZ+92o5XbOUMg9oNMUsfv/AS51G6vELSjp5zsMkvZfJJz7N NVBoOarJh8ipKKfXJFK+KG0BbXhnT/Omu3MAe5LxbWjyxaXIXi2q1xvH5tgBsFFYBe 1pActRkyOOVi9g3okY4kdmJeiJ6yQCMf75hX4J1w+AsfklXu7Vvb9pOjZbQTDFUpYw Ddc/2ajchkrqoL45IKocoQEb56ZWZwAXdLBhTawrSHPuP1qJKijPFb1m8DN8p724lG jCuw68YhGTBjlsmQoYKZwaM9hma8unBLtzejnmffqpY03IEwrMF51BSjVZafZO+nwv Iy4oAixWhmbuA== Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Thermo Imaging camera Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net In my experience, it is rare for a breaker to fail slowly. More likely is a bad connection. I had one once where somebody had put the wrong breaker in the box, and it didn't fit the bar tightly. After awhile, the whole connection corroded so badly I had to replace the entire box. Fortunately, it wasn't the main box, but still.......... Mike ======================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Braun" To: "Shop-Talk" ; Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2014 2:07 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Thermo Imaging camera > You should certainly be able to check that the wiring connections are OK. > You could also pull a suspect breaker from the panel to ensure that it is > properly > connected to the bus bar. > > I think loose or corroded connections are more likely to be the cause of > the problem > than an internal defect. > > Doug > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/phoenix722@comcast.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 8 15:52:20 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82DFC42F86 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 15:52:20 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cartman.xxiii.com (lan23.xxiii.com [24.246.172.99]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C1EA42F29 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 15:47:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (host-173-246-211-60.morrisbb.com [173.246.211.60] (may be forged)) by cartman.xxiii.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s08Mirr3052409 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2014 17:44:53 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wc5813@gmail.com) Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2014 17:44:50 -0500 From: w User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Thermo Imaging camera Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On 1/8/2014 1:38 PM, eric@megageek.com wrote: > OK, so I finally sprung for a Thermo Imaging camera. (FLIR E4.) Woah! Nice toy. Err, tool. Prices have come down on the things a bunch it appears. Thought I was doing well to score a Fluke meter and IR thermometer. Still trolling ebay for a Tek' scope. > One of the things I wanted to do was checking circuit breakers to find > ones that are about to fail. My Fluke 62 IR showed some being 1 to 3 deg F above others. GFCIs in mine pull 1 to 3 watts even with nothing plugged in. Two were more like 7 or 8 deg and I replaced them. > One other question, are there other things I should use this camera for > also? Any ideas? Bring it over to my place! -wayne _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Jan 9 05:54:11 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7289240441 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 05:54:11 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mailout11.yourhostingaccount.com (mailout11.yourhostingaccount.com [65.254.253.93]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AD3E40413 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 05:22:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailscan19.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.15.19] helo=mailscan19.yourhostingaccount.com) by mailout11.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1W1Eaf-0002zc-Hj for shop-talk@autox.team.net; Thu, 09 Jan 2014 07:20:01 -0500 Received: from impout01.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.55.1] helo=impout01.yourhostingaccount.com) by mailscan19.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1W1Eae-0001Zh-11 for shop-talk@autox.team.net; Thu, 09 Jan 2014 07:20:00 -0500 Received: from webmail02.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.16.2]) by impout01.yourhostingaccount.com with NO UCE id BoL11n01002gC1E01oL1tN; Thu, 09 Jan 2014 07:20:01 -0500 a=GYzHc3mh05v8unprsQ0nVQ==:17 a=Q7zus9ReCAYA:10 a=wg63zuhbB7gA:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=yCwGVx20AAAA:8 a=ObD0-6JFAAAA:8 a=hTqLCDggoTIA:10 a=1oiFcLFTlD8fcSOybTwA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=flrydYoLdq8A:10 a=pnPJNvy1_ewA:10 a=dv0r53mSTk2e8KAhgMvRMg==:117 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=email.accountsupport.com) by webmail02.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1W1Eae-00040b-0O for shop-talk@autox.team.net; Thu, 09 Jan 2014 07:20:00 -0500 Received: from 69.180.140.196 (SquirrelMail authenticated user greg@gelhar.com) by email.accountsupport.com with HTTP; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 07:20:00 -0500 References: <711912D17EE44B86B3418289A5A5518C@john5043a2d406> Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 07:20:00 -0500 From: greg@gelhar.com To: shop-talk@autox.team.net User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.19 Subject: [Shop-talk] Furnace Pilot Light Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net When I was cleaning the burners in my furnace (an older Bryant), I noticed that I could not easily blow through the tube going to the pilot light. Before I get too aggressive, should there be any resriction in that tube? Greg G. Near Minneapolis where it's been realy cold. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Jan 9 06:13:10 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CE7840539 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 06:13:10 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-wg0-f41.google.com (mail-wg0-f41.google.com [74.125.82.41]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D7B24040A for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 06:13:02 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-wg0-f41.google.com with SMTP id y10so5930095wgg.4 for ; Thu, 09 Jan 2014 05:10:49 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=jXJkFh865cd35A4w6E7hnpGDLM5Pyxcj2vHkp03nvRk=; b=KgXEGex1jaVvSwoXYudKs8OvVrfkiDfJrKsDhz+FJ5t5GTDaMeQSn+BbjT96VZfQ+M h3A7lAhcleEGOngxlp2WyRloppp6EhQ9e5x2fTuc7SvwWCiDB/VcDIGmmu/ByaAxpAQc H1wf1NHWzDAkrI7OCQOAjSYrMnL1oJE0Xa7Jj2wRSReBmQwI08fPptqa1VgHKu17fh0+ NpHiHgvutEW5nstlnDDzIGJ1o1MRbacHln3GnlUOtWcJWb+1sSzVP7Ih56nUO03J47se q0I8aMsLnwvWYMzqQZosfofjKbqnEvzpFbgxDW4/pt2kc960+pOTAMJWaJ4peGfolvcp +p/A== g4mr2846832wjy.85.1389273049201; Thu, 09 Jan 2014 05:10:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.194.90.78 with HTTP; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 05:10:49 -0800 (PST) References: <711912D17EE44B86B3418289A5A5518C@john5043a2d406> <9baaa7405d2942e9ac2e139d410ad1b1.squirrel@email.accountsupport.com> Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 08:10:49 -0500 From: Benjamin Zwissler To: greg@gelhar.com Cc: shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Furnace Pilot Light Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net There's typically an orifice to control the flow. Depending on where you're blowing that might be downstream of you. Ben.... On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 7:20 AM, wrote: > When I was cleaning the burners in my furnace (an older Bryant), I noticed > that I could not easily blow through the tube going to the pilot light. > Before I get too aggressive, should there be any resriction in that tube? > > Greg G. > Near Minneapolis where it's been realy cold. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bjzwissler@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Jan 9 06:24:48 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9370240539 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 06:24:48 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ie0-f174.google.com (mail-ie0-f174.google.com [209.85.223.174]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 992BF4040A for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 06:16:32 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-ie0-f174.google.com with SMTP id at1so3495878iec.33 for ; Thu, 09 Jan 2014 05:14:19 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=WrYbUGMpN03Gd7bAw7pkTKQgPHWu8KcNKCp/5U8o0L0=; b=NFeDZJ/WTcG2PZZViChc23K7/1mp1Nj9gjdnCnNurrlsHRLA9kxjjgn/kbPAcDzrML lVnvcx7qoTekLsmp44mMIhXYHDvxsWwB+qK1XC8TZPA+oRFj10EdzRpB2kV22ezcugyV TT/JbWDrLhKUAfB0UNl/rUrxL3WrZ3O6o8Y3FBp9BkkJMk7R9qgNNBO4sBapbWfyh/lV BOExgi9+XSKUvESSH/M8wDCoWIevPDjQLTkcOf3kSESp1HruL36qbndv7YBbPB+y39Ij wZqu60mh5cp7rrl7BmtC8nT4ellI3VYjVXiwnzSDGFbu00vn3b6o81PsDT5PmZqdeuNB dmSg== d8mr3297011igx.38.1389273259696; Thu, 09 Jan 2014 05:14:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.50.7.103 with HTTP; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 05:14:19 -0800 (PST) References: <711912D17EE44B86B3418289A5A5518C@john5043a2d406> <9baaa7405d2942e9ac2e139d410ad1b1.squirrel@email.accountsupport.com> Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 08:14:19 -0500 From: Paul Parkanzky To: greg@gelhar.com Cc: shop-talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Furnace Pilot Light Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Was your furance working fine and you chose the coldest weather in 20 years to tear it apart for a cleaning?!?! If it ain't broke... -Paul On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 7:20 AM, wrote: > When I was cleaning the burners in my furnace (an older Bryant), I noticed > that I could not easily blow through the tube going to the pilot light. > Before I get too aggressive, should there be any resriction in that tube? > > Greg G. > Near Minneapolis where it's been realy cold. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Jan 9 11:05:20 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCB3B42F32 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 11:05:20 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from qmta06.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta06.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.56]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B4824044C for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 10:59:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from omta06.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.51]) by qmta06.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id Bt0q1n00616AWCUA6txQ6X; Thu, 09 Jan 2014 17:57:24 +0000 Received: from BigBlack ([98.232.84.96]) by omta06.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id BtxP1n00U24iJ7W8StxPJu; Thu, 09 Jan 2014 17:57:24 +0000 From: "Bob Kegel" To: References: <52CDD4E2.80407@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 09:56:59 -0800 s=q20121106; t=1389290244; bh=4haInTlKrydKD0kvZi6NsOISGm/Ck2kCXkdk/0keXd0=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Reply-To:From:To:Subject:Date: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=D3Nhk/NPpw7/WUvitEyrP6tEh5IgMzpE1Veby/XmlF0rRzzSU6b3YoAtKKCJFdzhX 7qTTJxqcMBfSGTSUx9cGbuO+WJ1yJ1Ai0c+q6OzRW67RDVK+cP4huXMCOBEOYvw1sA QEdzELff+VnU3va28EM81E2FaP96YGUkOhBnJn6l48yMApSnMAdPf8cDSbvcKj2rn6 7Pw5feq2rJkIO+ZT+kkbtHr6Rp83mZBSeisp/0hXICAUtbF78szMyN8xl3O3tJvos7 zCd8UR8D7kX4XsdkD59HSTUP1Y4/qw7HxSfc1ZQRzYTzbMKb0znt+yb2afg7kFC7vb cPY85WOsN0gwg== Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Thermo Imaging camera Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Wednesday, January 08, 2014, at 14:44, w wrote: > Woah! Nice toy. Err, tool. Prices have come down on the things a bunch > it appears. And now there's an iPhone app: http://www1.flircs.com/flirone/ Bob K _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Jan 9 11:06:25 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7BD442F6C for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 11:06:25 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from col0-omc2-s5.col0.hotmail.com (col0-omc2-s5.col0.hotmail.com [65.55.34.79]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35B6B4044C for ; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 11:06:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from COL127-W22 ([65.55.34.73]) by col0-omc2-s5.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Thu, 9 Jan 2014 10:04:07 -0800 From: PJ McGarvey To: Shop Talk Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 13:04:06 -0500 References: , <52CDD4E2.80407@gmail.com> FILETIME=[306FB940:01CF0D65] Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Thermo Imaging camera Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net One of the most interesting things to happen this F1 season (haha) were the new thermal imaging cameras they were using: http://www.flirnews.com/2013/09/07/see-thermal-images-of-f1-tires-in-action/ I could see using it in a similar way either under the hood on my turbo'd car, or positioned over a brake caliper or wheel/tire to get some cool video during track days. I also came across this last night:http://gizmodo.com/flir-just-turned-your-iphone-5-into-a-predator-like- the-1496554213 Cool tool! (get it?) -PJ > > One other question, are there other things I should use this camera for > > also? Any ideas? _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jan 10 18:25:38 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 964AD43040 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 18:25:38 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from blu0-omc2-s18.blu0.hotmail.com (blu0-omc2-s18.blu0.hotmail.com [65.55.111.93]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1BBD43039 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 18:02:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from BLU0-SMTP208 ([65.55.111.72]) by blu0-omc2-s18.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Fri, 10 Jan 2014 17:00:15 -0800 Received: from [192.168.1.119] ([173.3.245.180]) by BLU0-SMTP208.phx.gbl over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Fri, 10 Jan 2014 17:00:12 -0800 From: James Stone Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 20:00:11 -0500 To: Shop Talk List FILETIME=[7B88E330:01CF0E68] Subject: [Shop-talk] Cell phone boosters Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I need a cell phone booster for my vacation home and figured this was the best place to turn for guidance. Heres the background: I have AT&T and my wife has Verizon; iPhone 5s for me and iPhone 4 for her. I am the one who primarily needs the boost, but it would be nice to get something that would enhance my wifes signal, too. (And, please dont take that sentence out of context!) The AT&T signal here is ok in most of the house (ok defined as 2 bars - I can send and receive calls), except for the area I am trying to use as my home office. There I only get one bar and can send and receive text messages, but most calls do not get through. My wife has two bars throughout the house, so her signal is adequate everywhere. (BTW: the house is less than 800 sq ft, so the distance from the adequate to the inadequate rooms is only a couple of steps.) We have cable wifi and that signal is excellent throughout. I have to do something to improve the AT&T signal, but it would be nice to get something that would work for both our phones. And, as always, it would be nice not to spend too much money. The easy solution for me looks to be an AT&T Microcell, but it would be nice to get something that worked for Verizon, too. Something like this sounds perfect (http://www.amazon.com/zBoost-YX545-Dual-Band-Booster-Coverage/dp/B003VOW5WI/ ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top) and it is less expensive then the Microcell when bought from AT&T, but Id like to hear from someone I trust before investing $200. And, given that I only need the boost in one room, whatever solution I go with wouldnt necessarily have to be wireless. Id be ok with something a lot less expensive that only worked when the phone was connected to it or right next to it. As always, thanks! Any advice will be appreciated. Jim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jan 10 19:11:03 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D06214304C for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 19:11:03 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from dogbert2.mail.megageek.com (nj-69-34-94-16.sta.embarqhsd.net [69.34.94.16]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DABD43038 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 18:53:04 -0700 (MST) To: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net From: eric@megageek.com Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 20:28:00 -0500 7.0.1|January 17, 2006) at 01/10/2014 20:27:57, Serialize complete at 01/10/2014 20:27:57 Subject: [Shop-talk] How much to weigh the back of a plow truck Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net OK, I have a GMC 3500 Duelie mason dump that I would like to use as a plow truck. I have a "Great Bear" plow (LIGHT duty ONLY) that is already hooked up to it. The truck is only rear wheel drive. It works great for plowing, until it losses traction. I'm figuring if I can put enough weight in the back, it would fix the problem for the most part. Once I know HOW much weight I need, I plan to make a concrete block that has forklift holes so I can load it in and out easily. But how do I figure out how much weight I need? Any ideas? Also, am I on the wrong track? Will the weight fix it? Is two wheel drive (well, 4 wheel if you count the duelies) not ever going to work? I have a pair of duelie snow chains for it, but I can't drive down the road on them. Note: I'm not looking to do this as a business. I just want to plow out myself, my neighbors, tenants, and my parents. Thanks in advance Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jan 10 19:25:48 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 035F143040 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 19:25:48 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-vb0-f46.google.com (mail-vb0-f46.google.com [209.85.212.46]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 822F043030 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 19:10:53 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-vb0-f46.google.com with SMTP id w20so3700843vbb.19 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 18:08:33 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=4M9b3MeMoNQr3rv7Hvb75UjYisFZVhtTlP2VfduLzps=; b=wxsegDTr6yky5yXe0VBHqVkRxRRsGtAVtKNDhaKBLEgfcoRDCXr6k3OSEK8LUWzVx6 5HlicAda8JX36kswIQd6JsfxeaYK6iCC2e2SuPQRQmBt17aVk1gjaBBEb/MHcAGlKt2Q bRRrwDkUYeUF1+y4P8gICjeuKRWhbMErjQjuIiowjPdTTdwoj1EwifURSARh3Z1IY/Ur pGImKnFq3stiR1QSyfuVycXHztkcl4RHin8Om/g6uDqWq63hoV01h7Bd3V+ytv5kfJQy 2/ShZp25SNl8eUeJrghHz0+opQUWbq/sFBEZbE+u2WlxKtavL69LEnr8gqF2zxibl/Z/ mKLA== Fri, 10 Jan 2014 18:08:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.52.66.227 with HTTP; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 18:08:32 -0800 (PST) References: Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 20:08:32 -0600 From: Ronnie Day To: Shop Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Cell phone boosters Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net We have similar issues at our new place, but we only have to worry about Verizon. I did some research and ended up getting a Wilson DB Pro through Amazon. It was around $340. Not cheap, but it works. It consists of a 13 db gain very directional antenna that I mounted on top of 25 feet of mast. That attaches to an amp where drives a hemispherical flat panel indoor antenna. The first thing I did was call Verizon tech support and find out the closest Verizon towers to our place. and figured out the relative compass headings. Once we get settled I plan to put the outside antenna up at around 50 feet. That should improve things quite a bit. In your situation, you may get lucky and either be able to use an omnidirectional outside antenna, if both AT&T and Verizon have towers close enough to you. More likely they won't be so close and they'll be in different directions (Murphy rears his ugly head) and you'll need separate setups with directional antennas for each provider. We're dealing with small, relatively cheap radios here with non-optimal antennas and the frequencies they operate at aren't good for going through hills and around buildings. That's just the nature of the beast. FWIW, Ron On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 7:00 PM, James Stone wrote: > I need a cell phone booster for my vacation home and figured this was the > best > place to turn for guidance. Here s the background: > > I have AT&T and my wife has Verizon; iPhone 5s for me and iPhone 4 for > her. I > am the one who primarily needs the boost, but it would be nice to get > something that would enhance my wife s signal, too. (And, please don t > take > that sentence out of context!) The AT&T signal here is ok in most of the > house ( ok defined as 2 bars - I can send and receive calls), except for > the > area I am trying to use as my home office. There I only get one bar and > can > send and receive text messages, but most calls do not get through. My wife > has two bars throughout the house, so her signal is adequate everywhere. > (BTW: the house is less than 800 sq ft, so the distance from the adequate > to > the inadequate rooms is only a couple of steps.) We have cable wifi and > that > signal is excellent throughout. > > I have to do something to improve the AT&T signal, but it would be nice to > get > something that would work for both our phones. And, as always, it would be > nice not to spend too much money. The easy solution for me looks to be an > AT&T Microcell, but it would be nice to get something that worked for > Verizon, > too. Something like this sounds perfect > ( > http://www.amazon.com/zBoost-YX545-Dual-Band-Booster-Coverage/dp/B003VOW5WI/ > ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top) and it is less expensive then the Microcell when > bought from AT&T, but I d like to hear from someone I trust before > investing > $200. And, given that I only need the boost in one room, whatever > solution I > go with wouldn t necessarily have to be wireless. I d be ok with > something a > lot less expensive that only worked when the phone was connected to it or > right next to it. > > As always, thanks! Any advice will be appreciated. > > Jim > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ronnie.day@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jan 10 20:11:00 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5985A4306B for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 20:11:00 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail14c40.carrierzone.com (mail14c40.carrierzone.com [209.235.156.154]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EC7E4303C for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 19:57:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (c-174-49-34-41.hsd1.tn.comcast.net [174.49.34.41]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail14c40.carrierzone.com (8.13.6/8.13.1) with ESMTP id s0B2t6KM005237 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2014 02:55:10 +0000 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 20:55:10 -0600 From: Mark User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 To: Shop Talk List References: reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Cell phone boosters Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net The first thing to do is climb up on the roof and see if you have enough signal to be reliable. If you do you can use an omni antenna with a booster for both systems. If you still have marginal signal on one or both carriers you will need more height and perhaps a higher gain antenna. The cell booster amplifiers obviously need a strong signal to boost, don't skimp on the transmission line between the inside and out. The Wilson products work well for consumer grade products, the commercial systems are pricy but very effective. Mark Nashville On 1/10/2014 7:00 PM, James Stone wrote: > I need a cell phone booster for my vacation home and figured this was the best > place to turn for guidance. Heres the background: > > I have AT&T and my wife has Verizon; iPhone 5s for me and iPhone 4 for her. I > am the one who primarily needs the boost, but it would be nice to get > something that would enhance my wifes signal, too. (And, please dont take > that sentence out of context!) The AT&T signal here is ok in most of the > house (ok defined as 2 bars - I can send and receive calls), except for the > area I am trying to use as my home office. There I only get one bar and can > send and receive text messages, but most calls do not get through. My wife > has two bars throughout the house, so her signal is adequate everywhere. > (BTW: the house is less than 800 sq ft, so the distance from the adequate to > the inadequate rooms is only a couple of steps.) We have cable wifi and that > signal is excellent throughout. > > I have to do something to improve the AT&T signal, but it would be nice to get > something that would work for both our phones. And, as always, it would be > nice not to spend too much money. The easy solution for me looks to be an > AT&T Microcell, but it would be nice to get something that worked for Verizon, > too. Something like this sounds perfect > (http://www.amazon.com/zBoost-YX545-Dual-Band-Booster-Coverage/dp/B003VOW5WI/ > ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top) and it is less expensive then the Microcell when > bought from AT&T, but Id like to hear from someone I trust before investing > $200. And, given that I only need the boost in one room, whatever solution I > go with wouldnt necessarily have to be wireless. Id be ok with something a > lot less expensive that only worked when the phone was connected to it or > right next to it. > > As always, thanks! Any advice will be appreciated. > > Jim > _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jan 10 20:26:19 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BCF843067 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 20:26:19 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from blu0-omc4-s19.blu0.hotmail.com (blu0-omc4-s19.blu0.hotmail.com [65.55.111.158]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 938334302C for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 20:02:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from BLU402-EASDF1 ([65.55.111.137]) by blu0-omc4-s19.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Fri, 10 Jan 2014 19:00:13 -0800 To: "eric@megageek.com" , "shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net" From: Bill Gilroy Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 18:59:51 -0800 FILETIME=[3F805380:01CF0E79] Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] How much to weigh the back of a plow truck Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Back when I lived in NJ most plow rigs had a load of sand or salt and a spreader. Sent from my Windows Phone ________________________________ Sent: b1/b10/b2014 6:08 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] How much to weigh the back of a plow truck OK, I have a GMC 3500 Duelie mason dump that I would like to use as a plow truck. I have a "Great Bear" plow (LIGHT duty ONLY) that is already hooked up to it. The truck is only rear wheel drive. It works great for plowing, until it losses traction. I'm figuring if I can put enough weight in the back, it would fix the problem for the most part. Once I know HOW much weight I need, I plan to make a concrete block that has forklift holes so I can load it in and out easily. But how do I figure out how much weight I need? Any ideas? Also, am I on the wrong track? Will the weight fix it? Is two wheel drive (well, 4 wheel if you count the duelies) not ever going to work? I have a pair of duelie snow chains for it, but I can't drive down the road on them. Note: I'm not looking to do this as a business. I just want to plow out myself, my neighbors, tenants, and my parents. Thanks in advance Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bill.gilroy@outlook.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jan 10 20:41:45 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20B904307C for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 20:41:45 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from filter04.roch.ny.frontiernet.net (filter04.roch.ny.frontiernet.net [66.133.183.234]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 206784303F for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 20:21:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by filter04.roch.ny.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 434E124C26C; Sat, 11 Jan 2014 03:18:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from relay03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net ([66.133.182.166]) by localhost (filter04.roch.ny.frontiernet.net [66.133.183.234]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id l1NlKWM3vP-v; Sat, 11 Jan 2014 03:18:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unknown [173.84.53.251]) by relay03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id D1DE123B30; Sat, 11 Jan 2014 03:18:45 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 19:19:22 -0800 From: Dave C User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120713 Thunderbird/14.0 To: eric@megageek.com References: Cc: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] How much to weigh the back of a plow truck Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I think some tire chains would go a long way to solving the traction problem...unless you've already done that. Dualies have notoriously bad traction in snow due to the large footprint leading to just sliding around. On 1/10/2014 5:28 PM, eric@megageek.com wrote: > OK, I have a GMC 3500 Duelie mason dump that I would like to use as a plow > truck. > > I have a "Great Bear" plow (LIGHT duty ONLY) that is already hooked up to > it. The truck is only rear wheel drive. > > It works great for plowing, until it losses traction. I'm figuring if I > can put enough weight in the back, it would fix the problem for the most > part. > > Once I know HOW much weight I need, I plan to make a concrete block that > has forklift holes so I can load it in and out easily. > > But how do I figure out how much weight I need? Any ideas? > > Also, am I on the wrong track? Will the weight fix it? Is two wheel > drive (well, 4 wheel if you count the duelies) not ever going to work? > > I have a pair of duelie snow chains for it, but I can't drive down the > road on them. > > Note: I'm not looking to do this as a business. I just want to plow out > myself, my neighbors, tenants, and my parents. > > Thanks in advance > > Eric P > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/cavanadd@frontier.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jan 10 20:58:08 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F90D4307F for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 20:58:08 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.198]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37F574303F for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 20:38:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from Steve-PC.optonline.net (ool-457e6b78.dyn.optonline.net [69.126.107.120]) by mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPA id <0MZ70046YWONLD80@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 22:36:24 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 22:35:29 -0500 From: Steven Trovato To: Shop Talk List References: Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Cell phone boosters Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net At my house, the Verizon signal used to be good enough, but something changed and it got worse. I ended up getting a Samsung Network Extender through Verizon. This connects to my broadband router, and creates a mini cell site just for me. I have found that it is a big improvement. If I relocate the device to a more central spot in my house, I'm sure it will be even better. For this device, you have to have broadband service and it needs a GPS signal. This means it has to be located near a window or you have to use the remote GPS antenna. I can't tell you why exactly it needs a GPS signal, but it does. And it's not just needed at setup time. If it loses the signal it eventually starts to complain. The only other issue is the price, but I complained enough to Verizon that they offered it to me for $100. It was listed as "refurbished" but it looked brand new to me. Here it is: http://www.verizonwireless.com/accessories/samsung-network-extender-scs-2u01/ You would also have to do some research to find out if it works for non-Verizon phones. -Steve Trovato strovato@optonline.net At 08:00 PM 1/10/2014, James Stone wrote: >I need a cell phone booster for my vacation home and figured this was the best >place to turn for guidance. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jan 10 21:43:55 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6841D43064 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 21:43:55 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from p3plsmtpa09-04.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (p3plsmtpa09-04.prod.phx3.secureserver.net [173.201.193.233]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C77F04303F for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 21:20:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from StevePC ([24.113.13.208]) by p3plsmtpa09-04.prod.phx3.secureserver.net with id CUJA1n00C4VKuxU01UJAz6; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 21:18:11 -0700 From: "Steve Hammatt, Mount Vernon WA USA" To: "Steven Trovato" , "Shop Talk" References: <0MZ70046ZWONLD80@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 20:18:07 -0800 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Cell phone boosters Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net As per Steve Trovatobs comments, we done the identical thing, although with Sprint. It sits next to my router in my home office. Suddenly I went from maybe 1 bar, to a full 5 bar strength. Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA From: Steven Trovato Sent: Friday, January 10, 2014 7:35 PM To: Shop Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Cell phone boosters At my house, the Verizon signal used to be good enough, but something changed and it got worse. I ended up getting a Samsung Network Extender through Verizon. This connects to my broadband router, and creates a mini cell site just for me. I have found that it is a big improvement. If I relocate the device to a more central spot in my house, I'm sure it will be even better. For this device, you have to have broadband service and it needs a GPS signal. This means it has to be located near a window or you have to use the remote GPS antenna. I can't tell you why exactly it needs a GPS signal, but it does. And it's not just needed at setup time. If it loses the signal it eventually starts to complain. The only other issue is the price, but I complained enough to Verizon that they offered it to me for $100. It was listed as "refurbished" but it looked brand new to me. Here it is: http://www.verizonwireless.com/accessories/samsung-network-extender-scs-2u01/ You would also have to do some research to find out if it works for non-Verizon phones. -Steve Trovato strovato@optonline.net At 08:00 PM 1/10/2014, James Stone wrote: >I need a cell phone booster for my vacation home and figured this was the best >place to turn for guidance. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/gsteve@hammatt.com ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6993 - Release Date: 01/10/14 _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Jan 11 08:36:34 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44B1443074 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2014 08:36:34 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.195]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0716A4304C for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2014 08:33:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.125] (c-69-142-166-127.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [69.142.166.127]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus4) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MLv7s-1W0wBw2qYW-008QRk; Sat, 11 Jan 2014 10:31:00 -0500 References: <0MZ70046ZWONLD80@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> From: Tim Hoerning Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2014 10:30:53 -0500 To: Steven Trovato N0YTnYHD6O6/PKbL8dNsQAFRkLwgRCQc/F7VjO9JfCu8WiDBcO TCLWKrcC2m8+2kTwm/X7M0ztJgDX8OlD4CZhvkGKAxGg5WrXx6 kSN+NY5CrCDsmMt/aoLN0GKlP/kpdrjFzASlaJ3QSh7JAY6fDm XnUfYQ7V/IQEb4v1zaZ9EJ+J7z7Szh4YcgxTIgbwhkbmgNezcA w4BWCiwPEnrO1qFa+n23YX45jHw/Er2EtqWJDu1RwH27tAOcxi eOj4mjgFxmDT/XZYxCMOADm4xQqCb5lBMaodFAzrFPweA4SY+y whrprADJ4w2iBuLgHXp7YwnLrBi7S/i8J2+dsd0FdNULCx9eA4 EvKswK8qUD1gQ== Cc: Shop Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Cell phone boosters Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Verizon needs a GPS because the radio transmission format they use (CDMA2000 1xRTT) requires all cell sites (including your samsung micro-cell) to be synchronized. The GPS signal is being used for timing, not position. I've never used one of these extender products, but have used a number of Wilson products and can recommend them. Tim Sent from my Commodore 64 over a 300 baud modem > On Jan 10, 2014, at 10:35 PM, Steven Trovato wrote: > > At my house, the Verizon signal used to be good enough, but something changed and it got worse. I ended up getting a Samsung Network Extender through Verizon. This connects to my broadband router, and creates a mini cell site just for me. I have found that it is a big improvement. If I relocate the device to a more central spot in my house, I'm sure it will be even better. For this device, you have to have broadband service and it needs a GPS signal. This means it has to be located near a window or you have to use the remote GPS antenna. I can't tell you why exactly it needs a GPS signal, but it does. And it's not just needed at setup time. If it loses the signal it eventually starts to complain. The only other issue is the price, but I complained enough to Verizon that they offered it to me for $100. It was listed as "refurbished" but it looked brand new to me. Here it is: > > http://www.verizonwireless.com/accessories/samsung-network-extender-scs-2u01/ > > You would also have to do some research to find out if it works for non-Verizon phones. > > -Steve Trovato > strovato@optonline.net > > At 08:00 PM 1/10/2014, James Stone wrote: >> I need a cell phone booster for my vacation home and figured this was the best >> place to turn for guidance. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/hoerni@cooper.edu _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Jan 11 08:52:09 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A440143079 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2014 08:52:09 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.200]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 909E54304C for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2014 08:42:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from Steve-PC.optonline.net (ool-457e6b78.dyn.optonline.net [69.126.107.120]) by mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPA id <0MZ8006FIU7ISQ80@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net; Sat, 11 Jan 2014 10:40:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2014 10:38:51 -0500 From: Steven Trovato To: Shop Talk List References: <0MZ70046ZWONLD80@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Cell phone boosters Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thanks Tim. I thought maybe they were concerned that my house had slid into a different area code or something. Your explanation is much better! -Steve At 10:30 AM 1/11/2014, Tim Hoerning wrote: >Verizon needs a GPS because the radio transmission format they use >(CDMA2000 1xRTT) requires all cell sites (including your samsung >micro-cell) to be synchronized. The GPS signal is being used for >timing, not position. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Jan 11 20:37:28 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A278B434B9 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2014 20:37:28 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cartman.xxiii.com (lan23.xxiii.com [24.246.172.99]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B894542F4E for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2014 20:31:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (host-173-246-211-60.morrisbb.com [173.246.211.60] (may be forged)) by cartman.xxiii.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s0C34xid067624 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2014 22:04:59 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wc5813@gmail.com) Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2014 22:04:55 -0500 From: w User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0 To: Shop Talk List References: <0MZ70046ZWONLD80@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Cell phone boosters Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On 1/11/2014 10:30 AM, Tim Hoerning wrote: > Verizon needs a GPS because the radio transmission format they use (CDMA2000 > 1xRTT) requires all cell sites (including your samsung micro-cell) to be > synchronized. The GPS signal is being used for timing, not position. If you still have use for a land line, check out Verizon's "home connect" service. It's a little black box like a wi-fi router that has a cellular radio along with electronics to drive regular POTS (err.. standard home) phones. Only $20/mo unlimited national calling, or if you have cell service with them and want to share minutes it's only $10/mo. Killer bargain, and good sound quality. Supposedly uses older equipment on the towers that's under utilized. Few extra bucks for them, cheap service, and screw the competition. > Sent from my Commodore 64 over a 300 baud modem HuhHuh, I taught myself raw f***** 6502 on nearly bare metal machine code (NO, not assembler, my 'rents and high school wouldn't drop $50 on it) in high school in the early 80s to code video games fast enough to run on an Apple ][. Breakout in 1536 bytes. And had a PDP 11/35 in Mom's basement in the mid 80s. Bare metal? Toggle 12 words on the switches, reset address, and hit the run button. -w _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Jan 12 18:48:01 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD9E8430B9 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2014 18:48:01 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm4-vm2.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (nm4-vm2.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [216.39.63.32]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D77F42F8A for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2014 18:27:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from [216.39.60.174] by nm4.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jan 2014 01:24:54 -0000 Received: from [98.138.104.99] by tm10.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jan 2014 01:24:54 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp119.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jan 2014 01:24:54 -0000 s=s1024; t=1389576294; bh=Dn0wuoG5Ffkw+qFnUDId8oMieD/bIzCVmEtU47soeiA=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-Rocket-Received:Message-ID:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-Antivirus:X-Antivirus-Status; b=GT0SWjJ8lYBEcgiUb0LIC84m4PrWQVQx46nLi0cmJ2qdWas3Xx2DYuY+tfeLMkTp110rzqsvlhu7UOfi9XMfoW68ZhpxBYQdQXQWSXCmYo4+cKrOicPN+uGRhLxEoniEdLa7CVDM5PNQExjjpsS8NPbckgiNqEZDnMrz5cnJ2Ok= 2JSPJGfI6BgqhbG71hhk.mkfGm_LFZ83B3N0gWdItLR3E064HKZ8wyiqaRhU pQDs43hFlm9Kd1U.0rLedj_S.S_EyW.y6YL2HMNZ6EIjtrEe_iuxvSYWYrz7 bgOEHDnhIYJJULmzyq5rO0VRWamrN2GyK8UeixuSdgrqfEMdk6FKHUTO6UoM V1FYlbUfpu.Bt5nLjRIWOYTblbVL6q0YUKrptMkCzhR38.6FTKVpI3NzJ3Bb o.38iB4FH3FLDTxInaOUZRNC1whFu8qOIN80ZotCYSTgeU06D46.lSpmm5oq VH3P8FoNwULe7bPmL.nzH.w4J1ga0qZYlcMndGQAcSkC31fhQZAebJrpelgi a513o2bArtmuNTTP.4PR6v6gpNLrVJcVAfPxO.WDMEG.xxoiXYR0Tur2Soo_ dmxQZ10a0Mp5cxddh2LKQSSfXKz664CMcnys9Kv_9GDgcPVYpropoiGZOjCC iJwP06ZoxW3zJNYtqhGGUZa2mlFS9GubBfFgiJQHyR7szyfShmQykovPJYvz uiZzgRdISgZ04AMVzJDk.gsPSVcw8prbsRdLrVE6NQ1Mkk7AiRIPlT5Yr199 EnIPZZdUk6ILlkA9YpCmzOJOxpRYSncIryFumFdUdubMjOAcNE9GoLUXeVI1 8JRhtOyu2OjDMoZ86 plain [98.138.31.74]) by smtp119.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jan 2014 01:24:54 +0000 UTC From: "John Niolon" To: "shop-talk" Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2014 19:24:53 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] solar battery charger Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net thinking about some gear that might be handy if the SHTF situation comes along... the ability to recharge batteries might be a good thing... I have a solar charger that I use to charge my batteries on my car hauler trailer... for the winch and the breakaway battery... http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004FX10ES/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1 if would be nice if I could hook this up (thru an inverter) to a multi type battery charger I also have http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008467K1E/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1 it only draws .6 amps at max... so a small inverter should do the trick right ??? if anyone doing or planning anything like this I'd love to hear your ideas, plans, experiences boy scout still inside ther.... be prepared thanks john Many people are alive only because it's illegal to shoot them. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Jan 12 19:25:44 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E312443512 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2014 19:25:44 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.120]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE73942F8A for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2014 19:24:21 -0700 (MST) a=iHrfZUqj8pI4/cobIDz1/A==:17 a=RstcCIBRdtQA:10 a=05ChyHeVI94A:10 a=ExDAyBU5CxkA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=KGjhK52YXX0A:10 a=xr8Xe_N-5toA:10 a=vggBfdFIAAAA:8 a=TGEea7rThClvBUKEeYgA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=X65PdSwAihYA:10 a=iHrfZUqj8pI4/cobIDz1/A==:117 Received: from [76.168.149.236] ([76.168.149.236:55003] helo=rypc) by cdptpa-oedge02.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 8F/63-21976-FBD43D25; Mon, 13 Jan 2014 02:21:51 +0000 From: "Randall" To: "'shop-talk'" Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2014 18:21:48 -0800 Thread-Index: Ac8QAS80OEr5hjgKSoePNZnd9HpJ3wAAzKcQ Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] solar battery charger Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > if would be nice if I could hook this up (thru an inverter) > to a multi type > battery charger I also have > > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008467K1E/ref=wms_ohs_produc > t?ie=UTF8&psc=1 > > it only draws .6 amps at max... so a small inverter should do > the trick right > ??? I see a wall wart ... Have you looked at powering the charger directly from the solar panel & battery setup? I think there's a chance the charger could run directly from the panel, but even if you had to regulate it down a bit, I suspect the result would be more efficient than trying to invert 12v up to 110ac and then run it back through the wall wart. Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Jan 13 01:52:10 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E6D640551 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2014 01:52:10 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from blu0-omc2-s10.blu0.hotmail.com (blu0-omc2-s10.blu0.hotmail.com [65.55.111.85]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A6ED42EEB for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2014 23:13:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from BLU0-SMTP202 ([65.55.111.71]) by blu0-omc2-s10.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Sun, 12 Jan 2014 22:10:44 -0800 Received: from [172.20.14.123] ([98.190.211.35]) by BLU0-SMTP202.blu0.hotmail.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Sun, 12 Jan 2014 22:10:42 -0800 From: James Stone Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2014 18:03:16 -0500 References: <0MZ70046ZWONLD80@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <52D20657.50401@gmail.com> To: Shop Talk List FILETIME=[30779A20:01CF1026] Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Cell phone boosters Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thanks guys. This was very helpful. I had done some research on the topic before posting the question, but that didnt tell me everything I needed to know. The information from this group enabled me to do a little more targeted surfing and I found an excellent write up on the topic from PCWord: http://www.pcworld.com/article/194059/wireless_dead_zone.html It is a couple of years old, which is usually a killer, but it doesnt look like the technology has changed much since this was written. Im not sure yet which way I will go, but I am now an educated consumer, which is a good start! Jim On Jan 11, 2014, at 10:04 PM, w wrote: > On 1/11/2014 10:30 AM, Tim Hoerning wrote: >> Verizon needs a GPS because the radio transmission format they use (CDMA2000 >> 1xRTT) requires all cell sites (including your samsung micro-cell) to be >> synchronized. The GPS signal is being used for timing, not position. > > If you still have use for a land line, check out Verizon's "home connect" service. It's a little black box like a wi-fi router that has a cellular radio along with electronics to drive regular POTS (err.. standard home) phones. Only $20/mo unlimited national calling, or if you have cell service with them and want to share minutes it's only $10/mo. Killer bargain, and good sound quality. Supposedly uses older equipment on the towers that's under utilized. Few extra bucks for them, cheap service, and screw the competition. > >> Sent from my Commodore 64 over a 300 baud modem > > HuhHuh, I taught myself raw f***** 6502 on nearly bare metal machine code (NO, not assembler, my 'rents and high school wouldn't drop $50 on it) in high school in the early 80s to code video games fast enough to run on an Apple ][. Breakout in 1536 bytes. And had a PDP 11/35 in Mom's basement in the mid 80s. Bare metal? Toggle 12 words on the switches, reset address, and hit the run button. > > -w > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jandkstone99@msn.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Jan 13 22:53:15 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99D5B4273A for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2014 22:53:15 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from dogbert2.mail.megageek.com (nj-69-34-94-16.sta.embarqhsd.net [69.34.94.16]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 169394040E for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2014 16:43:18 -0700 (MST) To: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net From: eric@megageek.com Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 18:18:40 -0500 7.0.1|January 17, 2006) at 01/13/2014 18:18:03, Serialize complete at 01/13/2014 18:18:03 Subject: [Shop-talk] Water treatment options Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Well, I finally had my water tested since the new well, and of course it looks like I need some treatments. (Questions in BOLD) First, I had a 'free water testing' done by a local plumbing chain. They are the ones that gave me the test results. Should I pay for a water test from a local lab to make sure they are just tell everyone their water is bad to sell systems? Next, I had acidic water, 5.5 I believe (I had to wait to get the actual results), then I had hardwater (to be expected), and finally I had iron in the water. The Iron I'm not worried about. (you can't see, or smell it.) The hard water, I wanted to treat with an electronic system. Does anyone know if they work, or are they snake oil? Finally, I have to install a system to neutralize the water. Does anyone have any ideas on what I should do? I plan to do the work myself, am I crazy? Thanks in advance. Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Jan 14 03:05:47 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4647640442 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2014 03:05:42 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.120]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF34E40546 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2014 00:06:27 -0700 (MST) a=iHrfZUqj8pI4/cobIDz1/A==:17 a=mTkdKakaJ2UA:10 a=05ChyHeVI94A:10 a=ExDAyBU5CxkA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=KGjhK52YXX0A:10 a=dc92-jTrUqYA:10 a=r1a4dAdEhaRlNxQZxpAA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=iHrfZUqj8pI4/cobIDz1/A==:117 Received: from [76.168.149.236] ([76.168.149.236:55000] helo=rypc) by cdptpa-oedge01.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 75/EB-00728-151E4D25; Tue, 14 Jan 2014 07:03:46 +0000 From: "Randall" To: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 23:03:42 -0800 Thread-Index: Ac8Q7ZFqdLT2OX63SOyhNUg6F8GIdgAB3EGQ Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Water treatment options Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > Next, I had acidic water, 5.5 I believe 5.5 is not bad at all, that is less acidic than rainwater! Unless it is causing a specific problem, I'd leave it alone. OTOH, adding just a little bit of lime is supposed to make the water taste better. > then I had hardwater (to be expected), How hard is it? Some hardness is a good thing, absolutely pure water is actually kind of unpleasant to wash with IMO. Again, unless you are unhappy with the effects, it might make more sense to leave it alone. > The Iron I'm not worried about. (you can't see, or smell it.) So not much iron, and it's good for you. > The hard water, I wanted to treat with an electronic system. > Does anyone > know if they work, or are they snake oil? Define "work". They cannot remove hardness from the water. Proponents claim they lessen the effects of the hard water, but there is no accepted method for measuring that. And the dissolved minerals will still come out if you boil the water, clog up your humidifier (or swamp cooler), etc. > I plan to do the work myself, am I crazy? Should be no reason you can't do the work. The only problem would be proving that the electronic gizmo actually does anything when you're finished. But if you're happy, I guess that's what is important. Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Jan 14 08:36:48 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1A2340551 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2014 08:36:48 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mta41.charter.net (mta41.charter.net [216.33.127.83]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EEF3403B1 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2014 05:26:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from imp09 ([10.20.200.9]) by mta41.charter.net (InterMail vM.8.01.05.02 201-2260-151-103-20110920) with ESMTP id <20140114122356.WGVF10143.mta41.charter.net@imp09>; Tue, 14 Jan 2014 07:23:56 -0500 Received: from wt07 ([209.225.8.57]) by imp09 with smtp.charter.net id DoPw1n00F1Dq0wp05oPwdt; Tue, 14 Jan 2014 07:23:56 -0500 a=rMnFlYzSR02+o+2/U82Jnw==:17 a=cWQ9uGxeeyIA:10 a=mTkdKakaJ2UA:10 a=yUnIBFQkZM0A:10 a=FKxt3M_0fucA:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=hOpmn2quAAAA:8 a=dc92-jTrUqYA:10 a=iEZWaKCLAAAA:8 a=zOoktvdPAAAA:8 a=QofZf1gOY8cmvlrZbL0A:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=J0aUVQLP0FIA:10 a=m3MdUl94G8cA:10 a=fN2J7l6Gh3oA:10 a=hUswqBWy9Q8A:10 a=BcwT0Smst7MCtTIIGOhIgQ==:117 Received: from [165.189.255.34] by enhanced.charter.net with HTTP; Tue, 14 Jan 2014 07:23:56 -0500 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 07:23:56 -0500 (EST) From: Tim To: eric@megageek.com User-Agent: Laszlo Mail 3 Cc: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Water treatment options Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I'd get a second opinion on the test. Here in WI we can get test kits that get sent to a state lab. I've not (had a well and thus not) done this for many years but the cost was minor, under $30 I believe. Acidic water? Not an expert here but never heard of that before. You can test this one yourself. Just get some litmus paper. If you have high iron, do you not also then have the sulfur that accompanies high iron content? And thus a smell? That is how it is here. Can't help with treatment options. I'd get a second, opinion before you start spending any money on equipment. tim On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 5:18 PM, eric@megageek.com wrote: > Well, I finally had my water tested since the new well, and of course > it looks like I need some treatments. (Questions in BOLD) > > First, I had a 'free water testing' done by a local plumbing chain. > They are the ones that gave me the test results. > > Should I pay for a water test from a local lab to make sure they are > just tell everyone their water is bad to sell systems? > > Next, I had acidic water, 5.5 I believe (I had to wait to get the > actual results), then I had hardwater (to be expected), and finally I > had iron in the water. > > The Iron I'm not worried about. (you can't see, or smell it.) > > The hard water, I wanted to treat with an electronic system. Does > anyone know if they work, or are they snake oil? > > Finally, I have to install a system to neutralize the water. Does > anyone have any ideas on what I should do? > > I plan to do the work myself, am I crazy? > > Thanks in advance. > > Eric P > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a > rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your > territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tputland@charter.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Jan 14 14:27:06 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CC904054A for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2014 14:27:06 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-wi0-f178.google.com (mail-wi0-f178.google.com [209.85.212.178]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF89B40551 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2014 07:53:39 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-wi0-f178.google.com with SMTP id cc10so813901wib.11 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2014 06:50:51 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=utnA+KJZGXmwoPoJGAUdC4KCV30zMTK6XTGUo5pfTZY=; b=qHF6RFE1zVqXp7d9kzUdDUa6/fFYI4LcKyBLj/ohrXliQ2RBVZS0WXFu1BevixJ5Wk dYcjKv8+Im3eSiK286xmE9BZLtnHsCf2CD02Pi5onNEBIkhLtoDNcMKgVrE/ABl9A0NL I6RI8cdlbhk/I9UvIEHyDVebI9OfF6XWgVwK/m25IExPmBX+D2d+nKpQJu/Dylk120sN w3594jOGyZp3NLzk0wmoL/Z9Ozwb4OEIG/CSOZ65OqWyyTbpilbdoyaKvSptUBKHfR4i oGmFan26jvqn+OWT4RuAnMQ9R6v3TqE43q/lJ3J1bD5qR4HO+f9ioJZ7rYD8DYL5V8/0 mliQ== kl6mr28491378wjc.9.1389711051073; Tue, 14 Jan 2014 06:50:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.194.90.78 with HTTP; Tue, 14 Jan 2014 06:50:50 -0800 (PST) References: <75.EB.00728.151E4D25@cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 09:50:50 -0500 From: Benjamin Zwissler To: Randall Cc: shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Water treatment options Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I can't speak to the acidity, but putting in a water softener is a reasonably easy do it yourself project. As far as I can tell the electonic units are snake oil, they don't remove the hardness but claim to make it not "feel" hard. It still leaves the minerals in the water which is what does damage to the plumbing and leaves deposits on fixtures. After 10 years of struggling to keep a Sears traditional softener unit working I recently replaced mine with a "professional" quality unit that I bought via Amazon for about $600. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004GEFKN8?ref_=pe_527950_33920290 It has a Fleck brand controller which seems to be respected among professional plumbers and I'm told they make the Culligan units. It was sold from "ABC Water Equipment" and is a 48,000 grain unit. The capacity in grains is determined by the number of people in your house and the hardness of the water. We have a four bedroom house so I sized it for that, but most of the time its just my wife and I and with just us it only regenerates about once every two weeks, every 3-5 days is more typical. With a full house of 5-6 people it might be more right-sized. The water softeners I looked at were often combined with iron removal options but I didn't pay much attention. We have city water and that's not an issue. There's a lot hype and snake-oil in water softeners sales, but my conclusion, and also what Consumer Reports recommended, is a standard unit with demand based regneration. "You can pay more but you can't get better". Ben..... On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 2:03 AM, Randall wrote: > > Next, I had acidic water, 5.5 I believe > > 5.5 is not bad at all, that is less acidic than rainwater! Unless it is > causing a specific problem, I'd leave it alone. > > OTOH, adding just a little bit of lime is supposed to make the water taste > better. > > > then I had hardwater (to be expected), > > How hard is it? Some hardness is a good thing, absolutely pure water is > actually kind of unpleasant to wash with IMO. Again, > unless you are unhappy with the effects, it might make more sense to leave > it alone. > > > The Iron I'm not worried about. (you can't see, or smell it.) > > So not much iron, and it's good for you. > > > The hard water, I wanted to treat with an electronic system. > > Does anyone > > know if they work, or are they snake oil? > > Define "work". They cannot remove hardness from the water. Proponents > claim they lessen the effects of the hard water, but there > is no accepted method for measuring that. And the dissolved minerals will > still come out if you boil the water, clog up your > humidifier (or swamp cooler), etc. > > > I plan to do the work myself, am I crazy? > > Should be no reason you can't do the work. The only problem would be > proving that the electronic gizmo actually does anything when > you're finished. But if you're happy, I guess that's what is important. > > Randall > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bjzwissler@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Jan 14 14:44:02 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBE7D403FC for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2014 14:44:02 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from qmta05.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta05.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.48]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 383AC40424 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2014 08:21:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from omta09.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.20]) by qmta05.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id Dqlx1n0040S2fkCA5rJUe4; Tue, 14 Jan 2014 15:18:28 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([24.2.215.4]) by omta09.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id DrJS1n00206FvTL8VrJSS7; Tue, 14 Jan 2014 15:18:28 +0000 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 10:18:25 -0500 From: "Peter J. Thomas" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 To: eric@megageek.com, shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net References: s=q20121106; t=1389712708; bh=KE6TU5LHR/pmUU1BSpvBeranwQf7ua2n8vWEgL6A9VY=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:Subject: Content-Type; b=H0wG/721+h+4HWH4TyjUT5qwpYQdOzgcQZtv16i1lAu41bcW6BGRzfRs6neKREx7N WhBQh8tr6loVnnI976wuEOY2r/6GcIauIzK//uKfSxcS/V98jgOeSCnNMMEK3dhQ9f ikamQ9GTf7lela36Ee+OPlz8et2/u3xpQGjrQjNCE+e/CkbdiDYFGbgpHXPExPjZtO kY8/1K3Mv7ho03IgdJCAadxU68IPpGadmw3SoQKihctWLXVdQ+yfkdRMtOjxTKKA/6 y5WBtz0bh1XtZG8tTdbSC3cp9TNjRId1Q7suUTYSTKfLYpUOzHpZGZEUh2H9U4acc4 sCltsn4rf1DYA== Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Water treatment options Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On 1/13/2014 6:18 PM, eric@megageek.com wrote: > Well, I finally had my water tested since the new well, and of course it > looks like I need some treatments. (Questions in BOLD) > > First, I had a 'free water testing' done by a local plumbing chain. They > are the ones that gave me the test results. > > Should I pay for a water test from a local lab to make sure they are just > tell everyone their water is bad to sell systems? Never trust the test from someone who wants to sell you expensive equipment. Here, a new well requires a lab test that contains all the information that the "free" test has and more accurate. The test usually less than $50 and worth it. > Next, I had acidic water, 5.5 I believe (I had to wait to get the actual > results), then I had hardwater (to be expected), and finally I had iron in > the water. That's acidic enough to eat away at your copper pipes, water heater, facuets, etc. over time. I had to replumb my mother's house with pex. Pin holes started appearing after 20 years from less acidid water. Also shortens the life of clothes. Only solution is an acid filter that runs the water through a bed of calcium carbonate that has to be replenished. > The Iron I'm not worried about. (you can't see, or smell it.) My water smells and taste of iron pretty bad. It's clear out of the tap but looks like weak tea if left out overnight. You could fill a large clear glass container and leave it out overnight uncovered. The compare against a fresh container in the morning. > The hard water, I wanted to treat with an electronic system. Does anyone > know if they work, or are they snake oil? Snake oil. > > Finally, I have to install a system to neutralize the water. Does anyone > have any ideas on what I should do? > > I plan to do the work myself, am I crazy? NO, not crazy. It's actually better to do it yourself. If you pay someone to do it they set you up with a proprietary system that you can't buy parts. I made this mistake and got tired of paying $100 to have someone come with a $100 part that really should cost only $10. I eventually replaced it with an system I bought online. I can buy parts though I haven't had in ten years. I also configured it for my need rather than take what was offered. It's been reliable and operates better. And it was easy to install. > > Thanks in advance. > > Eric P > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pj_thomas@comcast.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Jan 14 15:00:40 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B60AB40414 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2014 15:00:40 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from qmta09.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta09.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.96]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DA6F40424 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2014 08:25:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from omta22.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.89]) by qmta09.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id Dr5e1n0021vN32cA9rPB0d; Tue, 14 Jan 2014 15:23:11 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([24.2.215.4]) by omta22.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id DrP91n00G06FvTL8irPA8j; Tue, 14 Jan 2014 15:23:10 +0000 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 10:23:09 -0500 From: "Peter J. Thomas" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 To: eric@megageek.com, shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net References: s=q20121106; t=1389712991; bh=ARpKItgT9Wv7yjmZCdfJR1+Pf/omXRIHnA3kAy/qEPU=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:Subject: Content-Type; b=aPBeRTZyKWEjHyaJ18frnpTcqaJXYHF45z04TjIMnPcVlMYMiuogstbuOl6R4O6+Y VzcsClVFlojmT5rc5Zmk37AxhfjfP+fFeneu7LS5CdpHetZgLwIjKsefCFeRHNiapO CxIrFmTmHYI86cWPtTHpQ+WvEbgmE5jWluKTHLpeObL073Lm+69xx75F0uroAp8vKk aR4Mo3elbY2A95HD1AOxFa3FYBIYIF+dvUabOdwyr5PHW2g8avIIO/MROCTshIyi7j uinE0XUm8bYl6MA4I7SpXMlByLmkUu7DVDphd64yjAAFNmRuT9YWLMNcpBOAyYzKfv xMRIotvhNJUEw== Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Water treatment options Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On 1/13/2014 6:18 PM, eric@megageek.com wrote: > I plan to do the work myself, am I crazy? Also, a fraction of the cost. Not just the labor but the actual system. > > Thanks in advance. > > Eric P > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pj_thomas@comcast.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Jan 14 15:34:22 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5276D4044C for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2014 15:34:22 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from qmta04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.40]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22D5040423 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2014 08:33:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from omta22.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.89]) by qmta04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id Dqlh1n0051vN32cA4rX8ex; Tue, 14 Jan 2014 15:31:08 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([24.2.215.4]) by omta22.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id DrX61n00S06FvTL8irX7Lv; Tue, 14 Jan 2014 15:31:08 +0000 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 10:31:06 -0500 From: "Peter J. Thomas" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 To: Randall , shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net References: <75.EB.00728.151E4D25@cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com> s=q20121106; t=1389713468; bh=duPQ6dvvmHYT/7HMwXNaTVlJup1Lm4av+EaSP/XYEYE=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:Subject: Content-Type; b=bFdstU4JTBBHqMP25z16qW8pO/1ucM0MqrtZ85TpSPu8FpIbcJJWKXwEdar/SCeJV WXlPb7DLXzEmDRIlIoAJEQpmMGLt4jkdt//J/GY9Wowrcluy+5Irj576Po9vMHtRwk htxVFybtu5yihzkDYiSWXWTUuHB60/oAYYtsC6e/CcJB1wSWoapd+s8ekkIpuh3SnI VCPYMH0kx7Lv3/T/J3aPyt1Ffl/iB+zDvLGZ9F/Q6jxUHL8WF+d7loF2akcPmWfhfA t6VlivzAtLu9QgG8GORYHgEz/ZlnGv2fzst2DwhLB+/ufFHhYwb4PWje5O7/A2G2h3 Vl/RjakaTgPwA== Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Water treatment options Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On 1/14/2014 2:03 AM, Randall wrote: >> then I had hardwater (to be expected), > How hard is it? Some hardness is a good thing, absolutely pure water is actually kind of unpleasant to wash with IMO. Again, > unless you are unhappy with the effects, it might make more sense to leave it alone. Hard water requires you to use more soap/detergent. It especially true for shampoo. The flip side is people who add a softener use too much soap. When i run out of salt it's impossible to clean you hair, but I have a lot of iron. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive