Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Water treatment options

From: Benjamin Zwissler <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 09:50:50 -0500

I can't speak to the acidity, but putting in a water softener is a
reasonably easy do it yourself project.  As far as I can tell the electonic
units are snake oil, they don't remove the hardness but claim to make it
not "feel" hard.  It still leaves the minerals in the water which is what
does damage to the plumbing and leaves deposits on fixtures.

After 10 years of struggling to keep a Sears traditional softener unit
working I recently replaced mine with a "professional" quality unit that I
bought via Amazon for about $600.

 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004GEFKN8?ref_=pe_527950_33920290

It has a Fleck brand controller which seems to be respected among
professional plumbers and I'm told they make the Culligan units.  It was
sold from "ABC Water Equipment" and is a 48,000 grain unit.  The capacity
in grains is determined by the number of people in your house and the
hardness of the water.  We have a four bedroom house so I sized it for
that, but most of the time its just my wife and I and with just us it only
regenerates about once every two weeks, every 3-5 days is more
typical.  With a full house of 5-6 people it might be more right-sized.

The water softeners I looked at were often combined with iron
removal options but I didn't pay much attention.  We have city water and
that's not an issue.  There's a lot hype and snake-oil in water softeners
sales, but my conclusion, and also what Consumer Reports recommended, is a
standard unit with demand based regneration.  "You can pay more but you
can't get better".

Ben.....

On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 2:03 AM, Randall <[email-masked]> wrote:

> > Next, I had acidic water, 5.5 I believe
>
> 5.5 is not bad at all, that is less acidic than rainwater!  Unless it is
> causing a specific problem, I'd leave it alone.
>
> OTOH, adding just a little bit of lime is supposed to make the water taste
> better.
>
> > then I had hardwater (to be expected),
>
> How hard is it?  Some hardness is a good thing, absolutely pure water is
> actually kind of unpleasant to wash with IMO.  Again,
> unless you are unhappy with the effects, it might make more sense to leave
> it alone.
>
> > The Iron I'm not worried about. (you can't see, or smell it.)
>
> So not much iron, and it's good for you.
>
> > The hard water, I wanted to treat with an electronic system.
> > Does anyone
> > know if they work, or are they snake oil?
>
> Define "work".  They cannot remove hardness from the water.  Proponents
> claim they lessen the effects of the hard water, but there
> is no accepted method for measuring that.  And the dissolved minerals will
> still come out if you boil the water, clog up your
> humidifier (or swamp cooler), etc.
>
> > I plan to do the work myself, am I crazy?
>
> Should be no reason you can't do the work.  The only problem would be
> proving that the electronic gizmo actually does anything when
> you're finished.  But if you're happy, I guess that's what is important.
>
> Randall
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From: "Peter J. Thomas" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 10:18:25 -0500

On 1/13/2014 6:18 PM, [email-masked] wrote:
> Well, I finally had my water tested since the new well, and of course it
> looks like I need some treatments. (Questions in BOLD)
>
> First, I had a 'free water testing' done by a local plumbing chain.  They
> are the ones that gave me the test results.
>
> Should I pay for a water test from a local lab to make sure they are just
> tell everyone their water is bad to sell systems?

Never trust the test from someone who wants to sell you expensive 
equipment.  Here, a new well requires a lab test that contains all the 
information that the "free" test has and more accurate.  The test 
usually less than $50 and worth it.

> Next, I had acidic water, 5.5 I believe (I had to wait to get the actual
> results), then I had hardwater (to be expected), and finally I had iron in
> the water.

That's acidic enough to eat away at your copper pipes, water heater, 
facuets, etc. over time.  I had to replumb my mother's house with pex.  
Pin holes started appearing after 20 years from less acidid water. Also 
shortens the life of clothes.  Only solution is an acid filter that runs 
the water through a bed of calcium carbonate that has to be replenished.

> The Iron I'm not worried about. (you can't see, or smell it.)

My water smells and taste of iron pretty bad.  It's clear out of the tap 
but looks like weak tea if left out overnight.  You could fill a large 
clear glass container and leave it out overnight uncovered. The compare 
against a fresh container in the morning.

> The hard water, I wanted to treat with an electronic system. Does anyone
Snake oil.
>
> Finally, I have to install a system to neutralize the water.  Does anyone
> have any ideas on what I should do?
>
NO, not crazy.  It's actually better to do it yourself.  If you pay 
someone to do it they set you up with a proprietary system that you 
can't buy parts.  I made this mistake and got tired of paying $100 to 
have someone come with a $100 part that really should cost only $10.  I 
eventually replaced it with an system I bought online.  I can buy parts 
though I haven't had in ten years.  I also configured it for my need 
rather than take what was offered.  It's been reliable and operates 
better.  And it was easy to install.

>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Eric P
> "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational
> being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph
> Waldo Emerson
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---

From: "Peter J. Thomas" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 10:23:09 -0500

> I plan to do the work myself, am I crazy?
Also, a fraction of the cost.  Not just the labor but the actual system.

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From: "Peter J. Thomas" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 10:31:06 -0500

On 1/14/2014 2:03 AM, Randall wrote:
> How hard is it?  Some hardness is a good thing, absolutely pure water is actually kind of unpleasant to wash with IMO.  Again,
> unless you are unhappy with the effects, it might make more sense to leave it alone.
Hard water requires you to use more soap/detergent.  It especially true 
for shampoo.  The flip side is people who add a softener use too much 
soap.  When i run out of salt it's impossible to clean you hair, but I 
have a lot of iron.
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