Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Installing a Network device in a safe.

From: David Hillman <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 17:09:02 -0500 (EST)

On Mon, 30 Dec 2013, [email-masked] wrote:
> My question is, is there enough air flow in a safe to have a few hard
> drives running in there?  I have a Seagate BlackArmor 4 TB NAS that I want
> to put in the safe.
>
> Is there a certain temperature I need to maintain? Is there an effective
> way to monitor the temp inside the safe?

    Yes, there's a temperature you need to stay below.  Check the 
documentation from Seagate, it will tell you the environmental conditions 
that the device can tolerate.

    You can buy a network-friendly thermostat with an RJ45 connection.  The 
questions are, though; a) what do you do with the signal once it's outside 
the safe and b) do you then need to add a switch inside the safe ( and 
more heat/power ).  Or you could put a $5 oven thermometer in there, and 
check it from time to time.

    Regarding your first question... an archival device, which is what I 
think you are describing, is not going to generate much heat nor require 
much air for cooling.  Most of the time, it'll be sitting there like a 
rock.  With all that metal (the safe itself) to soak up that heat, I 
think your temperature will stay reasonable.

--
  David Hillman
_______________________________________________

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

---

From: w <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 20:54:59 -0500

On 12/30/2013 3:58 PM, [email-masked] wrote:
> OK, so while I was looking at high end gun safes, I noticed that they now
> come with a RJ45 passthrough as well as 110v AC inside.  I was told this
> was so you could put a network storage device (NAS) in it to keep your
> data safe as well.

Interesting question. I'd guess a safe is one helluv'a thermal 
insulator, so I'm thinking you do not want to put active electronics in 
it. I think current hard drives pull 2 - 10 watts depending on level of 
activity. But I built a media server specifically trying to keep it low 
power, and the dang thing still pulls 66 watts from the wall with a Core 
2 based 34W Celeron and only two drives. With my local utility, rates 
work such that 1W = just under $1/year.

I'm an IT pro and have had to deal with backups for decades. I don't 
really see an individual or family having that much data or need for 
immediate recovery. I segregate my stuff into different directories. The 
critical stuff 7'Zips & ImgBurns onto one DVD. I'd like to backup my 
collection of music ripped from 30 years of CDs, but... other media, 
meh. Can be replaced. Unless you have a ton of family photos or such 
that are irreplaceable.

I'd think some low power "near line" storage like a flash drive, and use 
something to mirror it, like unix rsync or windows SyncToy could work.

> drives running in there?  I have a Seagate BlackArmor 4 TB NAS that I want

What are you trying to protect from? Fire? Theft? Any air flow would 
compromise fire protection. Rambling on too long.

-w

[email-masked]

---

From: Peter Murray <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 21:08:10 -0500

Best practice is to have your backup off-site. Look at CrashPlan or another
cloud offering. They are cheap and have been quite reliable for me. You
could also look into using Amazon S3 or Glacier storage.

-Peter
On Dec 30, 2013 8:55 PM, "w" <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Interesting question. I'd guess a safe is one helluv'a thermal insulator,
> so I'm thinking you do not want to put active electronics in it. I think
> current hard drives pull 2 - 10 watts depending on level of activity. But I
> built a media server specifically trying to keep it low power, and the dang
> thing still pulls 66 watts from the wall with a Core 2 based 34W Celeron
> and only two drives. With my local utility, rates work such that 1W = just
> under $1/year.
>
> collection of music ripped from 30 years of CDs, but... other media, meh.
> Can be replaced. Unless you have a ton of family photos or such that are
> irreplaceable.
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/
> [email-masked]

[email-masked]

---

From: "Jack Brooks" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 19:10:01 -0800

Keep your NAS where it can be kept cool and back the data up to a separate
drive and store it off site.  

I use Windows home server to back up all 5 home computers and hold about 1TB
of other data.  In case of a catastrophic loss, I back up everything to a
2TB hard drive which I keep in a safely deposit box at the bank, updating it
every few weeks to a month. Easy.  

One of the worst things you can do to a hard drive is run it hot all.  It's
a mechanical device.  When I started adding fans to the desktop computers &
in my server, the lifespan went up.  The fans blow directly over the hard
drives from one end.  My system drive has 7 years and 169 days of run time
on it today.  Scary, since it's my most important drive, but it's a great
size for the system disk and it's now been running smoothly in this 3rd
server rendition.  Right now, in my 73F server closet, it's running just
under 80F, same as most of my server drives, although two run up around 85F.

Jack

[email-masked]

---

From: "ElanS4" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 22:57:23 -0500

> I'm an IT pro and have had to deal with backups for decades. 

Me too, or at least I used to be.  Years ago, I used to back up my work
system (a VAX) onto 8mm digital video tape and carry the backup home with me
every night.  Did a full backup each night, and switched tapes every
morning.  Kept on each week so I could always get close to a point in time
in the past if necessary.  Offsite storage and  system restore in about an
hour.  The other system had to keep the backup tapes in the computer room.
Of course it was a classified computer and you had to enter the room through
two bank vault type of doors.  A full Halon system took care of fire
concerns...  :-)

Now, I back up through a port on my network router to an external 3TB disk.
The router has a built in port to handle such things but it's a USB
connection.

If I wanted to protect that storage, I'd simply back it up to an external
drive USB drive, and put the drive in the safe.  It shouldn't really need to
be operating all the time.

> 
> I don't really see an individual or family having that much data or need
for immediate recovery. 

Yep, I occasionally do a full back up to an external drive, and an automated
nightly backup of the changed/added files to the external drive.

> I'd think some low power "near line" storage like a flash drive, and use
something to mirror it, like 
> unix rsync or windows SyncToy could work.  

Yep, or external USB drives.  ;-)

Tim Mullen

[email-masked]