From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Dec 1 13:37:23 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE18C4044C for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2013 13:37:23 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm10-vm6.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (nm10-vm6.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [216.39.63.158]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 564654040B for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2013 13:35:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from [216.39.60.168] by nm10.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2013 20:33:27 -0000 Received: from [67.195.23.146] by tm4.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2013 20:33:27 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp118.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Dec 2013 20:33:27 -0000 s=s1024; t=1385930007; bh=rG1kUWT/poxM/+0G3fFODFNu37TjeBoMz7fXo/Eh97o=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-Rocket-Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=SOu8cAFb53zvXDxJoCkAS3+Zkz7QzUDPG5nM4UxK1SG3jDJ8BYIh/lCoVu3//3cXc6t7NXxIrgTZtxXh9MCzIR7cR5E316/hg9zStHP4rsqqBhV1TYCtyBnyOyYi7v8EExfpq6Pk0kyX+tmq8pTS/HjntdyD4JPEQOvZVogcRYc= a58oZFt6FAc_lnmS5E9i7W2ccVoe53FLgVUyRzWy0bQ31QTDkoL60i1D93Dh 9Ao5qJBVmDTSsLC58ba77a4h1aaN4JXbPchA3sXiAzzXL_HMYjo0UJqd1mnx lEga9GGzE8n3HUQFuHDTqFszUvSyfctmababvKmdIXulKcKYKbgXeUsmZFNA L4nJLFDOurr.UtTJVu1Qyipfl0lECleXbO9EQMbBY_2ijWqx70lzdkSrWtNd uHoDJUPcT2YNxLA05zK0P6M78NMknh0.1ksYwKSDSWKRRaAqXskCM.YIs3Xv Zhcp3JZIHjMJR2iC_q7xopabHU6B_13E3n7ehFK1I0VeC2Xd9EVGzFDyRezx iRHjO7P2qH5z.tA.DRT_nSgaeEwhNG84DIhckobjnxtETp7W4NYZszoXkZ5A FWtsEj8Xyw01S9vmuYFQOieKEAHJS.duLMoW92xgBppmBzqrofXvoaQg64pg kpIXduWl38WAtNwN6V0AvcHYvH1pQSbIqJZkDGE0HfhL4bKIgLBpjkSPkWFG n smtp118.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 01 Dec 2013 20:33:27 +0000 UTC Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2013 15:33:25 -0500 From: john Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.1 To: Shop Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] New Generator Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net My 30 year old, 5000 watt Yamaha Generator has about had it and I want to buy a new Generator for emergency use at home. I have a 30 amp transfer switch installed so I want to stay in the 5000 to 8000 watt range. Anyone have a recommendation for a good unit. I'm hoping for no storms until I get this done. Thanks, John Mitchell Shelton, CT _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Dec 1 19:14:32 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C7E840520 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2013 19:14:32 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from dogbert2.mail.megageek.com (nj-69-34-94-16.sta.embarqhsd.net [69.34.94.16]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C2F840422 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2013 19:13:11 -0700 (MST) To: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net From: eric@megageek.com Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2013 20:49:29 -0500 7.0.1|January 17, 2006) at 12/01/2013 20:49:30, Serialize complete at 12/01/2013 20:49:30 Subject: [Shop-talk] chain hoist question (electrically) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fellow shop-talkers, I acquired a 1/2 chain hoist lift and I have some questions. First off, I have photos I'm talking about (the important parts) are here... http://tinyurl.com/m3fj7c6 In the first photo, you see this is labeled 3 phase, 208 or 440. In the photo below that, you see that there is a wiring block that changes for 220V or 440v (left side of photo) The top right photo is a wiring diagram. The bottom right photo is the button controller (to make the lift go up and down.) Here are my questions... Is there any way to wire this to work on Single Phase, maybe with reduced power? What is this thing worth? Does anyone want/need this? Finally, what could be the tar like substance that is all over that controller? Any ideas where this could have been used? The buttons work, but it just looks scary! 8>) Thanks for the help in advance. Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Dec 1 19:32:09 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF7C040546 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2013 19:32:09 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ob0-f180.google.com (mail-ob0-f180.google.com [209.85.214.180]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18A8940433 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2013 19:32:03 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-ob0-f180.google.com with SMTP id wo20so11845984obc.25 for ; Sun, 01 Dec 2013 18:30:01 -0800 (PST) d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=deuKKAiIiv3YYXKOhdWfyWL/90+pchrRSayOdRgGg1U=; b=JrZfA4/JWN1WwYg9bA4pMJ2Wkr+l8rufQyXnJ71SjDkgtRs1BqIKy4Mywc3BTxVNC6 G8OJr5rp5r/dWbszRqG23eoq/XuzwAs1SL32WUz6dPP6eld5ZtHbYhqySnwkdKB+0PfM zHf051COUTQ6oe7IiMr9gZZqhRmMlvVfu0I1m4B3pAFfU92ih+2ieaq7c7nTgbJcJihc HZAPJ9gT5c6v5z4bcvwNhtDlRNyImyCx3HWLMtGJ+tRBbsgyXct/IjqQmi0oDQYCESGg MB4hcf907DlXrLUQGqvy+i79BqHxWbYrr9M/a2VUcuVvbbG8zJT4jES269ddZONoVBtA wyZg== eg5mr3351896oeb.42.1385951400904; Sun, 01 Dec 2013 18:30:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.182.134.231 with HTTP; Sun, 1 Dec 2013 18:30:00 -0800 (PST) References: <529B9D15.7050409@snet.net> Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2013 21:30:00 -0500 From: Doug Braun To: john Mitchell , Shop-Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] New Generator Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net These days, unless you want high-end, everybody seems to be selling something made by some other company, and just slapping their label on it. And this could be happening separately for the gas engine and the actual generator. I would: 1: Test your ability to find and order spare parts on-line. If you can't, that's a bad sign. 2: Reject any generator that does not have a fuel shutoff valve, or which has a fuel pump instead of pure gravity feed. 3: Avoid something that you would not trust running computers or other electronic devices. There generators that work without brushes. That sounds good in theory, but I haven't heard how much better it is in practice. If you have the means, an inverter generator is very nice. They can throttle down when the load is low, and you use less noise, and use less gas. I have a Honda EU2000, and it is wonderful if 2000 watts is sufficient. A EU6500 would be nice for you, but it costs $$$$$. BTW, consider how you will be able to keep the thing fed if you have to run it for a several days. If you have a 5000 watt generator that uses a gallon every two hours, that's 12 gallons a day, In three days, you will have to bring home 36 gallons of gas, which probably cost you over $100. (My EU2000 will run 10 hours on a gallon of gas.) Doug On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 3:33 PM, john Mitchell wrote: > My 30 year old, 5000 watt Yamaha Generator has about had it and I want to > buy a new Generator for emergency use at home. I have a 30 amp transfer > switch installed so I want to stay in the 5000 to 8000 watt range. Anyone > have a recommendation for a good unit. I'm hoping for no storms until I get > this done. Thanks, John Mitchell Shelton, CT > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/doug@ > dougbraun.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Dec 1 20:11:17 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B201C42761 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2013 20:11:17 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm5-vm2.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm5-vm2.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [216.109.114.129]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id BEA5240433 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2013 20:11:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from [66.196.81.155] by nm5.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Dec 2013 03:09:07 -0000 Received: from [98.139.221.156] by tm1.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Dec 2013 03:09:07 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp116.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Dec 2013 03:09:07 -0000 s=s1024; t=1385953747; bh=wQj0Q2X5hc+p3qoAwglaMRE/ZQxYMaJE+9nHGtFRvAI=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-Rocket-Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type; b=aJTnfSTJT8l3UxbX6numN0774DPe+1UUkWKLTgHssjBRoSsnaV2PNTUzZIaii1wEKRMX6i8zaT31Uru5V7sLrXq7FG0Frmi6/x6JR/VQLwAr7De/bsina+nw5o8rsMh/3eRY6v5XKLOKqIR212lCT+3UenxH90RckGWxc/qMxF4= pM9wdeFR29zJtofSol.DevD9vMaORWP0.LzM9.mcJPP6rsNgy8D_AXy.kGDy h0ucDD_DbpJk3R3FYzTym8CiTgDcITWBXye5aIsgF5s9YJ914.7gT_GJuhAe IArIjdnCWhpbOkS5HrjwGDYonLTrXl2fa4UXy_bSQGY9GcnvqS_s_CMnvpgx 7e04Kp9dXPusqkuZ8RUEnIUuB4MBl9eQFU4wSsmNS1d.H51vs9vws5zGQWuh wDfwjCZ11kFFAKd7eKBWdSrShptHAenYYUxPmvAu61GERy1A8h7cF9IKTZVD bSv.ABwbn.AQetRRimF86tA0YEknD2aTTFV.E_C6xC4WsDhvsmLu0p7h0Kvw XQJtEUbAN5ru5DBKoAOBkfASJ5Sm50LJKgrb2x8ZbgQ1qPSEo3GAkGCOWV1t rtAM.Inzo142LcxlUKLUsZJBa93yV.ejw_zHmBt1D2IG1ekIdEmta7loO1hb bamXWqba36K39p9H0S_JAqfUrdpn8ZSbGsA9oi2q0VPOGQM5JJtJ19Vf0M9O JVcrhiy1.KI.4LNsDRiUwazQryf5yJgd8vsHjwhDYBSH_J4wtks_ZkHGiwB5 Ftg-- smtp116.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 02 Dec 2013 03:09:06 +0000 UTC Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2013 22:09:06 -0500 From: john Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.1 To: Doug Braun , Shop-Talk References: <529B9D15.7050409@snet.net> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] New Generator Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thanks for the insights. My 5000 watt generator would run 8 hours on 2.5 gallons and I always keep 15 gallons stored with stabil. I hate to spend $3000 on something that rarely gets used. My other big concern is noise. I've read that diesel generators are much quieter. John On 12/1/2013 9:30 PM, Doug Braun wrote: > These days, unless you want high-end, everybody seems to be selling > something made by some other company, and just slapping their label on > it. And this could be happening separately for the gas engine and the > actual generator. > > I would: > > 1: Test your ability to find and order spare parts on-line. If you > can't, that's a bad sign. > 2: Reject any generator that does not have a fuel shutoff valve, or > which has a fuel pump instead of pure gravity feed. > 3: Avoid something that you would not trust running computers or other > electronic devices. > > There generators that work without brushes. That sounds good in > theory, but I haven't heard how much better it is in practice. > > If you have the means, an inverter generator is very nice. They can > throttle down when the load is low, and you use less noise, and use > less gas. I have a Honda EU2000, and it is wonderful if 2000 watts is > sufficient. > A EU6500 would be nice for you, but it costs $$$$$. > > BTW, consider how you will be able to keep the thing fed if you have > to run it for a several days. If you have a 5000 watt generator that > uses a gallon every two hours, that's 12 gallons a day, In three > days, you will have to bring home 36 gallons of gas, which probably > cost you over $100. (My EU2000 will run 10 hours on a gallon of gas.) > > Doug > > > > > On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 3:33 PM, john Mitchell > My 30 year old, 5000 watt Yamaha Generator has about had it and I > want to buy a new Generator for emergency use at home. I have a > 30 amp transfer switch installed so I want to stay in the 5000 to > 8000 watt range. Anyone have a recommendation for a good unit. > I'm hoping for no storms until I get this done. Thanks, John > Mitchell Shelton, CT > _______________________________________________ > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/doug@dougbraun.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Dec 1 22:20:00 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDDE540416 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2013 22:19:59 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from m1plsmtpa01-02.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (m1plsmtpa01-02.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net [64.202.165.174]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF8E0403CF for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2013 22:19:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from habitatlaptop ([71.83.222.112]) by m1plsmtpa01-02.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net with id wVHa1m0052S6l8P01VHaXg; Sun, 01 Dec 2013 22:17:45 -0700 From: "Pat Horne" To: , References: Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2013 23:15:53 -0600 Thread-Index: Ac7vBAJu7Qibq6MPQxWuBKUa+2kbHwAFwPSw Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] chain hoist question (electrically) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Eric, The best and easiest way to connect this up to single phase power is to use a single to 3-phase converter. If you are in need of a hoist, and the price was good enough to spend another $50 on a phase converter, then this is fine. If it is too expensive, sell this one and buy a single phase unit I looked on ebay and found http://www.ebay.com/itm/HD-1-3-3-4-HP-Static-Phase-Converter-Mill-Drill-Saw- USA-MADE-Single-to-three-/261070427968?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc902 9740, which is a solid state phase converter for $46. Have no connection with this company. Try various solvents in moderation to see what attacks the tar. Peace, Pat -----Original Message----- Is there any way to wire this to work on Single Phase, maybe with reduced power? What is this thing worth? Does anyone want/need this? Finally, what could be the tar like substance that is all over that controller? Any ideas where this could have been used? The buttons work, but it just looks scary! 8>) _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Dec 2 03:11:40 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DE3F40451 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2013 03:11:40 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from smtp002.apm-internet.net (smtp002.apm-internet.net [85.119.248.221]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B609403FC for ; Mon, 2 Dec 2013 03:11:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 62154 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2013 10:09:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.1.104?) (86.184.61.228) by smtp002.apm-internet.net with SMTP; 2 Dec 2013 10:09:25 -0000 Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2013 10:09:22 +0000 From: nick brearley User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.1 To: john Mitchell References: <529B9D15.7050409@snet.net> <529BF9D2.8060309@snet.net> Cc: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] New Generator Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net john Mitchell wrote: > Thanks for the insights. My 5000 watt generator would run 8 hours on > 2.5 gallons and I always keep 15 gallons stored with stabil. I hate to > spend $3000 on something that rarely gets used. My other big concern is > noise. I've read that diesel generators are much quieter. John > On 12/1/2013 9:30 PM, Doug Braun wrote: There is the lpg option. I've just bought an lpg kit for my EU20i that is supposed to use 0.33 kg propane per hour. That generator is big enough to run a central heating pump, a couple of freezers and give a bit of light but would not be big enough for your needs. Regarding diesel generators and noise. I'd be surprised if diesel was quieter but ultimately it comes down to the sound deadening encapsulation. I have a bit of experience with a floodlighting generator powered by a Cummins 4BT3.9. While that isn't noisy I certainly wouldn't want it running all night outside the house. This is an interesting website by someone who earns a living repairing Honda generators: http://www.petepower.co.uk/choosing-generators.html Starts with the small camping models then goes on to the larger items that may be of interest to you. Hope you get sorted before winter sets in. Don't know how long you plan staying in the house but 30 years from a Yamaha generator is a pretty good recommendation. Nick Brearley _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Dec 10 16:19:55 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B679C40410 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2013 16:19:55 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm2-vm5.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (nm2-vm5.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [216.39.63.120]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A1EDD40323 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2013 15:28:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from [216.39.60.175] by nm2.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Dec 2013 22:25:37 -0000 Received: from [67.195.22.117] by tm11.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Dec 2013 22:25:37 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp112.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Dec 2013 22:25:37 -0000 idA8fp8cgP2hzXesAqriWdOgVsDC2Is5qjyFbRgJWSvCO9352vvCf52mbZqe J27rfM3nyM1iupBFOVKsEk9tjBI9f6GzTRLgYdpn38vXaVRRQ.sivY3rRxNq _RJUdpfFPrQ_QorV3C_DKJzYHfKmEway2bVrd5bkQaA27Idu9zjcj9Q42vHe KNISwIeSnoejD94xPirj0YNALdicWFBhjRUrl_BjgGmlnqx.8CqV0ifbslZ5 fUYUSei4L3xzEWDO2LUKjQplEE7KQucSWmvG1aLgKGPEDzqT9cOOqlTy36xg tIS4vsoPjdCGM5msJBQPxrlt92UrFTImvdgwG9dA2ailX0gyjrzxG6CIcImy XQKQbN_6x6BOKCulhGC7KTjU6sy__hoIl0siofkVtyd_r3qJMffPmbTHGMUD AB9LJv9xUut4GCf7p_UY6Fy4TP0poOiqcx5sXyfjlJImrh6ki.EY7hwEDk9w _pUxoBLJVqQeqwmJ9nEhDcgDaZ_5GkaLUtG1AF9z4OuZyYlRWhAIb0qZKGju ffJ3K9eYx smtp112.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Dec 2013 14:25:37 -0800 PST From: "Karl Vacek" To: Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 16:25:39 -0600 Thread-Index: Ac710Wewf1jJvyEkRuKEXfi4oLgHRA== Content-Language: en-us Subject: [Shop-talk] Water heater quality Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Are there any truly good, durable, natural-gas-fired conventional water heaters made nowadays? It appears that most of the major brands come from two main conglomerates: Rheem/Ruud/Richmond/etc. and A.O.Smith/Lochinvar/State/etc. I have a top-of-the-line Lochinvar that I installed in 2008 to replace a garden-variety 1986 Rheem water heater which had lasted 22 years. The 5-year-old Lochinvar is bad now, though it hasn't blown (yet). Since the large local distributor I bought from went out of business, my warrantee may be void. The current distributor will only deal with licensed contractors, and it appears the factory approves of that. If they eventually honor the 6-year warrantee I'll be good for a few more years, but I'd really prefer to put in a better unit now. If I have to pay a, "approved" plumber to come inspect this and tell the factory it was indeed installed properly, and then handle the warrantee and install the new one, it'll cost more than a new heater. I've also learned that many water heaters aren't glass-lined any more, and indeed this one doesn't say anything on the labels about glass lining. Never thought to ask when I bought it from a trusted friend. We're in the Chicago area with Lake Michigan water, which is supposed to be pretty good for plumbing, and we've never had water-induced corrosion issues or heard of them. I hope there's an anode in the factory-installed outlet fitting, but I don't know. There's no other place one could be screwed in. The factory-installed inlet has no anode - just a plastic dip tube, which I had to replace yesterday as it was corroded. All things I'll look for and upgrade as possible in the next water heater. I know there are many tankless water heater adherents on the list, but when I last checked tankless heaters have short warrantees, cost 3-4 times what a conventional water heater does, require direct venting, and most require "professional" installation. I only have my clay-lined brick chimney and no reasonable way to relocate the water heater to a better location. The economics just don't seem to work at all anyway. Probably a better option for those who have electric water heaters. Thanks! Karl _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Dec 10 16:58:48 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DFEF4285B for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2013 16:58:48 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ie0-f177.google.com (mail-ie0-f177.google.com [209.85.223.177]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBC15403E3 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2013 16:43:51 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-ie0-f177.google.com with SMTP id tp5so9392595ieb.8 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 2013 15:40:40 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=f0d7PN2Eraf+m/189CSCWTeg6EEc0xAkAeMUP7OsjqQ=; b=ie8Bebk9U3qVAY9W15ZSww04r3SKO9LiZ9bcXUGVLjoXdn+fartWtJ2aeTZNmTdbqE APDdC3SWcKbfuGGw/E4WqyOm6dAkf5LQOP4RJVoGoyXXwfLp7GTJMk9KtEG5jjO2kWj+ /5/lwsIxDhDUKg9Ga3IWSHy44gg3YYkxdET3AKnwhskaDevWrkf1zx8idl5J4jMvgXrA jI+D4t6lgXQuTc2iq8knlqolTOtjz6ihJSW+961HCU5vExVgcaGOEjp1Z/AoUThNF/rG w7UJZAS72wmDTaDlQ7+uXZkWLK6PAGP19/jmnca2hNKtXqn/RfwKPBcUXw0cTkMgEqmF /5EA== yr5mr352820igb.38.1386718840731; Tue, 10 Dec 2013 15:40:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.50.73.5 with HTTP; Tue, 10 Dec 2013 15:40:40 -0800 (PST) References: <000c01cef5f6$c217e970$4647bc50$@Ameritech.net> Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 18:40:40 -0500 From: Paul Parkanzky To: Karl Vacek Cc: shop-talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Water heater quality Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I live in Middleville, MI, which is where Bradford White water heaters are manufactured. I can't say anything scientific about their relative quality, but they have a large manufacturing plant that was recently expanded and it's another brand to consider. -Paul On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 5:25 PM, Karl Vacek wrote: > Are there any truly good, durable, natural-gas-fired conventional water > heaters made nowadays? It appears that most of the major brands come from > two main conglomerates: Rheem/Ruud/Richmond/etc. and > A.O.Smith/Lochinvar/State/etc. I have a top-of-the-line Lochinvar that I > installed in 2008 to replace a garden-variety 1986 Rheem water heater which > had lasted 22 years. The 5-year-old Lochinvar is bad now, though it hasn't > blown (yet). Since the large local distributor I bought from went out of > business, my warrantee may be void. The current distributor will only deal > with licensed contractors, and it appears the factory approves of that. If > they eventually honor the 6-year warrantee I'll be good for a few more > years, but I'd really prefer to put in a better unit now. If I have to pay > a, "approved" plumber to come inspect this and tell the factory it was > indeed installed properly, and then handle the warrantee and install the > new > one, it'll cost more than a new heater. > > > > I've also learned that many water heaters aren't glass-lined any more, and > indeed this one doesn't say anything on the labels about glass lining. > Never thought to ask when I bought it from a trusted friend. We're in the > Chicago area with Lake Michigan water, which is supposed to be pretty good > for plumbing, and we've never had water-induced corrosion issues or heard > of > them. I hope there's an anode in the factory-installed outlet fitting, but > I don't know. There's no other place one could be screwed in. The > factory-installed inlet has no anode - just a plastic dip tube, which I had > to replace yesterday as it was corroded. All things I'll look for and > upgrade as possible in the next water heater. > > > > I know there are many tankless water heater adherents on the list, but when > I last checked tankless heaters have short warrantees, cost 3-4 times what > a > conventional water heater does, require direct venting, and most require > "professional" installation. I only have my clay-lined brick chimney and > no > reasonable way to relocate the water heater to a better location. The > economics just don't seem to work at all anyway. Probably a better option > for those who have electric water heaters. > > > > Thanks! > Karl _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Dec 11 11:10:47 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A088403EF for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2013 11:10:47 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.120]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24450403E4 for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2013 10:37:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([10.127.143.54]) by cdptpa-qmta02.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20131211172003397.MQWK8979@cdptpa-qmta02.mail.rr.com> for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2013 17:20:03 +0000 a=iHrfZUqj8pI4/cobIDz1/A==:17 a=HhLU_efIYhUA:10 a=05ChyHeVI94A:10 a=ExDAyBU5CxkA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=KGjhK52YXX0A:10 a=iSiVqupxmt8A:10 a=p9pd9m-OVcoJvm4jSxAA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=ac7WolEwIJoA:10 a=iHrfZUqj8pI4/cobIDz1/A==:117 Received: from [76.168.149.236] ([76.168.149.236:55005] helo=rypc) by cdptpa-oedge04.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 62/E6-11872-A4E98A25; Wed, 11 Dec 2013 17:18:03 +0000 From: "Randall" To: "'Karl Vacek'" , Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 09:17:59 -0800 Thread-Index: Ac710Wewf1jJvyEkRuKEXfi4oLgHRAAwhE8A Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Water heater quality Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > Are there any truly good, durable, natural-gas-fired > conventional water > heaters made nowadays? It appears that most of the major > brands come from > two main conglomerates: I don't know who actually made it, but the GE brand heater I got from Home Depot about 12 years ago seems to be holding up well. I get some rusty sediment when I open the drain valve every few years, but not very much and it likely comes from the cast iron pipes leading to the house & heater. There is a hex head for the anode, but I've never tried to change it. Probably should do that some time. There's a sticker on the side that says to call GE for support, but I've never called them. When you hook the new one up, be sure to get the flexible lines with the insulators at the heater end. They'll help block any galvanic currents that can eat up the heater. Both this house and my previous house didn't have them when I moved in. Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Dec 11 20:47:47 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16B0540523 for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2013 20:47:47 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from filter03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net (filter03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net [66.133.183.233]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D78D0403F9 for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2013 20:30:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by filter03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55F7B18A896 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 03:18:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from relay05.roch.ny.frontiernet.net ([66.133.182.168]) by localhost (filter03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net [66.133.183.233]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id fgPDVVN5CAij for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 03:18:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (50-47-131-180.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net [50.47.131.180]) by relay05.roch.ny.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id C2B812F927 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 03:18:55 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 19:18:59 -0800 From: Dave C User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.1 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] Power supply noise? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I just got a mobile (as in normally installed in a car or truck) uhf/vhf ham radio to use as my base station. Since it's a mobile I had to get a 12 volt power supply. I got a (relatively) inexpensive 25 amp switching power supply from the same vendor. The fan is really noisy and runs all the time. No I haven't called the vendor yet, and my wife threw away some of the packaging material anyway. So, any ideas on how to quiet it down? I have already moved it to the floor under the radio bench, but I was thinking of trying to find some kind of thermal switch I could add to the fan circuit, or maybe just opening up the enclosure and disabling the fan, or putting a manual switch on it. Also thought of building a larger enclosure around it which would still provide air movement, but would block most of the noise. Any ideas? --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Dec 11 21:20:04 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85CAC4281C for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2013 21:20:04 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from st11p02mm-asmtp002.mac.com (st11p02mm-asmtpout002.mac.com [17.172.220.237]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83D7340046 for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2013 20:56:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.0.25] (67-5-233-222.ptld.qwest.net [67.5.233.222]) by st11p02mm-asmtp002.mac.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7u4-27.08(7.0.4.27.7) 64bit (built Aug 22 2013)) with ESMTPSA id <0MXO00KEMDGXJ5B0@st11p02mm-asmtp002.mac.com> for shop-talk@autox.team.net; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 03:53:25 +0000 (GMT) engine=2.50.10432:5.11.87,1.0.14,0.0.0000 definitions=2013-12-12_02:2013-12-11,2013-12-12,1970-01-01 signatures=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1308280000 definitions=main-1312110167 From: Darrell Walker Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 19:53:21 -0800 References: <52A92B23.4020307@frontier.com> To: Dave C Cc: Shop Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Power supply noise? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net If you can easily open the case, you can try changing the fan. Usually a higher quality fan (which may only cost $5-10) will be much quieter. Ive upgraded several power supplies this way. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Dec 11 21:42:51 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3375E40535 for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2013 21:42:51 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from filter01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net (filter01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net [66.133.183.226]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB135403F9 for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2013 21:14:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by filter01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E80F104533; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 04:11:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from relay05.roch.ny.frontiernet.net ([66.133.182.168]) by localhost (filter01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net [66.133.183.226]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 8IjLoEZxr-jw; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 04:11:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (50-47-131-180.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net [50.47.131.180]) by relay05.roch.ny.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 36A682F907; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 04:11:34 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 20:11:37 -0800 From: Dave C User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.1 To: Darrell Walker References: <52A92B23.4020307@frontier.com> Cc: Shop Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Power supply noise? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Where do I start looking for an alternate fan? Out of an old PC power supply? Ebay? On 12/11/2013 7:53 PM, Darrell Walker wrote: > If you can easily open the case, you can try changing the fan. Usually a higher quality fan (which may only cost $5-10) will be much quieter. Ive upgraded several power supplies this way. > > --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Dec 11 21:44:39 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 848C042F59 for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2013 21:44:39 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from st11p02mm-asmtp005.mac.com (st11p02mm-asmtp005.mac.com [17.172.220.240]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C7CD40E1A for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2013 21:20:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.0.25] (67-5-233-222.ptld.qwest.net [67.5.233.222]) by st11p02mm-asmtp005.mac.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7u4-27.08(7.0.4.27.7) 64bit (built Aug 22 2013)) with ESMTPSA id <0MXO00I7PEHHBK70@st11p02mm-asmtp005.mac.com> for shop-talk@autox.team.net; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 04:15:20 +0000 (GMT) engine=2.50.10432:5.11.87,1.0.14,0.0.0000 definitions=2013-12-12_02:2013-12-11,2013-12-12,1970-01-01 signatures=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1308280000 definitions=main-1312110168 From: Darrell Walker Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 20:15:17 -0800 References: <52A92B23.4020307@frontier.com> <52A93779.4040207@frontier.com> To: Dave C Cc: Shop Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Power supply noise? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Dec 11, 2013, at 8:11 PM, Dave C wrote: > Where do I start looking for an alternate fan? Out of an old PC power supply? Ebay? Ive used these guys: http://www.coolerguys.com/fans.html But even Radio Shack carries fans (which may be quieter). _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Dec 11 22:23:53 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FD46400A5 for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2013 22:23:53 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.196]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A31F400A5 for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2013 22:20:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from Steve-PC.optonline.net (ool-457e6b78.dyn.optonline.net [69.126.107.120]) by mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPA id <0MXO00AJMHCBPU50@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for shop-talk@autox.team.net; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 00:17:00 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 00:14:11 -0500 From: Steven Trovato To: Dave C , shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <52A92B23.4020307@frontier.com> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Power supply noise? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Messing around inside a brand new power supply wouldn't be my first choice. Try to get it further away from you. I don't know what your room is like, but is there a closet or something nearby? My father-in-law likes to use a 12 Volt car battery and a charger/maintainer like a Battery Minder. The battery provides plenty of current and the whole thing is completely silent. You also get to use your radio in a power failure. -Steve Trovato strovato@optonline.net At 10:18 PM 12/11/2013, Dave C wrote: >I just got a mobile (as in normally installed in a car or truck) >uhf/vhf ham radio to use as my base station. Since it's a mobile I >had to get a 12 volt power supply. I got a (relatively) >inexpensive 25 amp switching power supply from the same vendor. The >fan is really noisy and runs all the time. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Dec 11 22:56:11 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FBBB4044A for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2013 22:56:11 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm10-vm6.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (nm10-vm6.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [216.39.63.158]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id D2C374032A for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2013 22:36:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from [216.39.60.168] by nm10.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Dec 2013 05:33:42 -0000 Received: from [67.195.23.148] by tm4.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Dec 2013 05:33:39 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp120.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Dec 2013 05:33:39 -0000 s=s1024; t=1386826418; bh=jwpd6nFo2mCKfjp2p1lunXXcHInGDROvCt82qca1uxg=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-Rocket-Received:From:To:Cc:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:Thread-Index; b=CSyryny2j5H2DNjWGxMIboUgFhxY9W2d0L2x/NBiWShAJlqYY8jLzHrBqbwANv3kQEBphFnJKXLVDBJ2Kh3XckuyVdgIxxuVROWAYs29DQCobFhMsez6G0PZRi5HZSXgysVzM/pXIeDGGfDRysrHymbZ1C1k1nSIdGtLf9g3iFs= CcR09oqWf71Cy6xwkGlFarhi1CB5YlLUZpjGNJFfa5F.p1GVeLd8cLMMc8zR 2F0Pyddpon62lvAikdKkHUXExtA1RkkSt7Nd0x0d.1aYw3m3iugs8FdWTGUc 611P5WQZE3FZr_AFmSQBdT5PNwUPVTS1Fz0n7TXNFbd.pwAvJ873TD2Kf3qF uWVxWkojqgKN.LgFDsPrilURet_mDfeKJoocEqMmnj0I84UtGwQe4H673Ad5 r5mvwvcEv6._Y3b3IKXNVO2Pk4ssvHPZQyfd8uXwd3JDlCFVsmGUzdWzJwdW UmHNVT2PB1QvdnZTAEXYTTCNuSEOYvr0B2Hi2UuXvXHmyEqfCrYIK3UD0ySq mOpw0fRCZMQacBvjHjkE3YCUEyWY5cGjNPNDkKUNRDFduHZfn3zXIAj6tuob Xz8v8kOgAcscxn3xjK_HUT.6PYpSPAnkCgfDCDnhR0y_1a.btX7IWpYsbn5a 0X2.bYLEc6mLnrbbjlUM9NpwLKoT89VqWGyZYtGfEJetirJb0QxOCohLA2SO thYNERnIteYkP60e9VggLYWqWBqFAe8mYOw4VeqZTqDwERi.vB7diU.tnfv4 IYMwW smtp120.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Dec 2013 05:33:38 +0000 UTC From: "Jack Brooks" To: References: <52A92B23.4020307@frontier.com> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 21:33:29 -0800 Thread-Index: Ac727NBvoEhtbLgbShys3vCgcMVRgAADfHpQ Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Power supply noise? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Dave, Check out the Remote Control Web sites for modifying a computer power supply to provide 12 volts. I've done it numerous times and have attached a copy of several articles I found on line. The cost is minimal and they are very clean power supplies. They are available in many different wattages and are easy to convert. Just start with a quiet power supply. Jack -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Dave C Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 7:19 PM To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] Power supply noise? I just got a mobile (as in normally installed in a car or truck) uhf/vhf ham radio to use as my base station. Since it's a mobile I had to get a 12 volt power supply. I got a (relatively) inexpensive 25 amp switching power supply from the same vendor. The fan is really noisy and runs all the time. No I haven't called the vendor yet, and my wife threw away some of the packaging material anyway. So, any ideas on how to quiet it down? I have already moved it to the floor under the radio bench, but I was thinking of trying to find some kind of thermal switch I could add to the fan circuit, or maybe just opening up the enclosure and disabling the fan, or putting a manual switch on it. Also thought of building a larger enclosure around it which would still provide air movement, but would block most of the noise. Any ideas? --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jibjib@att.net [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/msword which had a name of Setting Up a PC power supply as a charger - better.doc] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/msword which had a name of Setting Up a PC power supply as a charger.doc] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/msword which had a name of Desktop Power Supply from a PC.doc] _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Dec 11 23:38:52 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10EDE4043F for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2013 23:38:52 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.120]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6796403F5 for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2013 23:28:55 -0700 (MST) a=iHrfZUqj8pI4/cobIDz1/A==:17 a=dpy006FSa-oA:10 a=05ChyHeVI94A:10 a=ExDAyBU5CxkA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=KGjhK52YXX0A:10 a=pv5VEd3HWh8A:10 a=JOA0iUbgAAAA:8 a=cJ5oXobVAAAA:8 a=lLZmtIKjAAAA:8 a=3T9icrYGGWXQA8L7vjUA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=T_kyIAD7yWwA:10 a=wi3KyWEedFwA:10 a=iHrfZUqj8pI4/cobIDz1/A==:117 Received: from [76.168.149.236] ([76.168.149.236:55002] helo=rypc) by cdptpa-oedge01.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id B7/12-04827-6F659A25; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 06:25:59 +0000 From: "Randall" Cc: "'Shop Talk List'" Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 22:25:55 -0800 Thread-Index: Ac729Fil/ILeLsmkSvSOhc/N/P2f4AAC6qHA Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Power supply noise? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > Where do I start looking for an alternate fan? Out of an old > PC power > supply? Ebay? Any electronics stores in your area? Last time I bought computer fans, it was at Frys; but only because Torrance Electronics was closed at the time. Even Best Buy and Radio Shack have some shot at having what you need. If not, try http://www.mouser.com http://marvac.com/SearchResult.aspx?KeyWords=fans http://www.digikey.com Of course you'll first have to find out what you need, in terms of both physical size and cfm. Most likely a computer fan will be 12v DC, but it wouldn't hurt to check that as well. Usually (though certainly not always), ball bearing fans make more noise for the same air movement. But they also last longer, and give you warning when they are about to fail (by getting even louder). Sleeve fans are quieter to begin with, but fail and stop without making any extra noise. Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Dec 12 05:57:42 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 029E440439 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 05:57:42 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ve0-f181.google.com (mail-ve0-f181.google.com [209.85.128.181]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C3164003F for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 05:33:41 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-ve0-f181.google.com with SMTP id oy12so237548veb.12 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 04:30:22 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc :content-type; bh=+ySTzkd1LDl7pP6SX8RE72d+P9HYziudbSrp/XMV5U0=; b=qbdrB2ZsQsxM04gPCDjeoG2QBdcgWzCmJb4a/8xWbgLn1G1AXUK5UnGLT7hqBnxPAv J/o6OYKU6lHVqF1f2zXBQNpOExq8my143+KJrIgMIdhAQKlDjOd7AJY5M0xMMpBizKHi qda11KaSFuvJKvv+4HftdaGgVJbeJWgb7D5+rrg49rS1SGKPODIGQy7huvxrtltVxoV0 XyRbMv6sYDi/rX70rbgJhdiy1WVWiPo8+kP3AEaqAIUbVBP83bR+SNkcREK9MwzpcitS YBmrOfhLZNa6X6SHN7MOpZGEd9S7QUecN11FoiFCf/HfO8HEjYWS98HW8b1py3eL5Y9q +g7A== y16mr3628303vcu.4.1386851422521; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 04:30:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.58.1.74 with HTTP; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 04:30:22 -0800 (PST) References: <52A92B23.4020307@frontier.com> <0MXO00AJNHCBPU50@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 07:30:22 -0500 From: Jeff Scarbrough Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Power supply noise? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 12:14 AM, Steven Trovato wrote: > My father-in-law likes to use a 12 Volt car battery and a charger/maintainer > like a Battery Minder. I hope he does this somewhere other than in the house... _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Dec 12 08:55:22 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBCA44281B for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 08:55:22 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-vb0-f50.google.com (mail-vb0-f50.google.com [209.85.212.50]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A17F840439 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 08:22:24 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-vb0-f50.google.com with SMTP id w18so369634vbj.23 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 07:18:55 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=qIdAj8/kHKrmzCzo2NlhmHJ7jOc/59RgDjEwCJ2ywFE=; b=ZGFgJn2BegeLy8x+Avm4nKahjGysBuol81tkYM8uvB03fd3cOBLAPFMmBJaN8ryInx LtzaHbz3hnb7UBklYkCqqlLNxYM1M+htcpGrXMXyQXLk/Jhh9T1CcrIx72f24dTEageR t21UT6EhHznkpHQ8SFRHprx6rZR6aVYlJehJrilIBI0PgZmDOSRWw8swqCr3Hby8kt56 CZwcFqSthuoTs677SLX8fmobtsRbobT1DRefnhVXuThVRQHraiU8EQtVb7lVQFFn8TuK S2idQ9KUdnnE3mYIxmmrataq/ajXT/AtBNwr7Un7XoBlIZu4Za4ReDJo9zV5DADwThAV sIMw== Thu, 12 Dec 2013 07:18:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.58.1.74 with HTTP; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 07:18:55 -0800 (PST) References: <52A92B23.4020307@frontier.com> <0MXO00AJNHCBPU50@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <0MXP00G3X8UEBW40@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 10:18:55 -0500 From: Jeff Scarbrough To: Steven Trovato Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Power supply noise? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Hydrogen gas. A rarity, to be sure, at the kind of normal charging rates that a maintainer puts out, but still a danger to be aware of. Even riskier with a higher-amperage charger. If it fails to shut off, it can generate explosive quantities of gas. Not the sort of thing you want in your living space. If you go in your garage and smell rotten eggs, don't turn on the lights or use the door operator :-) Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 10:09 AM, Steven Trovato wrote: > Jeff, > > What are you concerned about? I have cars sitting in my attached garage > with those maintainers hooked up all winter. > > -Steve > > At 07:30 AM 12/12/2013, Jeff Scarbrough wrote: >> >> On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 12:14 AM, Steven Trovato >> wrote: >> > My father-in-law likes to use a 12 Volt car battery and a >> > charger/maintainer >> > like a Battery Minder. >> >> I hope he does this somewhere other than in the house... _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Dec 12 09:38:56 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CF144281C for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 09:38:56 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.198]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C3E04035A for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 08:48:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from Steve-PC.optonline.net (ool-457e6b78.dyn.optonline.net [69.126.107.120]) by mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPA id <0MXP00G3W8UEBW40@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for shop-talk@autox.team.net; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 10:11:03 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 10:09:04 -0500 From: Steven Trovato mail.com> To: Jeff Scarbrough References: <52A92B23.4020307@frontier.com> <0MXO00AJNHCBPU50@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Power supply noise? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Jeff, What are you concerned about? I have cars sitting in my attached garage with those maintainers hooked up all winter. -Steve At 07:30 AM 12/12/2013, Jeff Scarbrough wrote: >On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 12:14 AM, Steven Trovato > wrote: > > My father-in-law likes to use a 12 Volt car battery and a > charger/maintainer > > like a Battery Minder. > >I hope he does this somewhere other than in the house... _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Dec 12 11:41:58 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C33540437 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 11:41:58 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cartman.xxiii.com (lan23.xxiii.com [24.246.172.99]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BF57403A6 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 11:31:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (host-173-246-211-60.morrisbb.com [173.246.211.60] (may be forged)) by cartman.xxiii.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id rBCIOjoT024307 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 13:24:45 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wc5813@gmail.com) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 13:24:41 -0500 From: w User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <52A92B23.4020307@frontier.com> <52A93779.4040207@frontier.com> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Power supply noise? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On 12/11/2013 11:11 PM, Dave C wrote: > Where do I start looking for an alternate fan? Out of an old PC power > supply? Ebay? http://www.newegg.com/Case-Fans/SubCategory/ID-573 Use the "Power Search" link near the top of the menu to narrow down the selection of 813 fans! w _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Dec 12 14:24:23 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 556954044D for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 14:24:23 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-wi0-f174.google.com (mail-wi0-f174.google.com [209.85.212.174]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB78B403FB for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2013 11:34:51 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-wi0-f174.google.com with SMTP id z2so7512442wiv.7 for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2013 10:31:34 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=2U96v9SzmZ04jfmvRA3j4pAH6uBRy0F341lxIOdaALo=; b=wkLtCm3T4CSy23ZWwt7k2Gp9u/9FhamKEgbe62hvvJmDRQROm9eT1cVM0A55VgjilY MUmgQZs/6acIXt3STSR2nFm5m0Vl7Ub4uHXI7CmNeT2rEv3tONTW+vyViNX/4rSBdbXw Duyuh7WmgGIJ9bu9o2IVRRQM253WUDd51aZUL/4LkFyWKRgxNmaa0n7qP37/LIzsxV5i 4XQc4+ecH30dQGJJwlX1+vk5q/I59vqSpR8ex9mYSZS7pheL/lNqM+t9tZcMsf2h3whG ycgw6R2v+th3GHLym1NRO3mokLydRpQ00CoVc9YrNFg7UGa/Y1E7c7EKrW2EvK4LYQGW Ewug== w8mr2726913wjy.55.1386786693355; Wed, 11 Dec 2013 10:31:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.194.136.230 with HTTP; Wed, 11 Dec 2013 10:31:33 -0800 (PST) References: <000c01cef5f6$c217e970$4647bc50$@Ameritech.net> <62.E6.11872.A4E98A25@cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 13:31:33 -0500 From: Benjamin Zwissler To: Randall Cc: shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Water heater quality Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I've got a Whirlpool that I bought about five years ago from Lowe's. I've since found they don't have a very good reputation among professional installers. I just replaced my gas control thermostat because I had cold water and turning the knob all the way to hot didn't turn on the gas. It wasn't made by Whirlpool, but by one of the big name gas control companies who's name I can't remember now. Another person in our office had the same thing done to hers recently. She paid a plumber to do it under the warranty -- part was free, labor was >$100. I could have had my part paid for under warranty but given Lowe's had them in stock for $60 I didn't bother with that time/hassle. The interesting and troublesome part of the repalement was that the bottom of the tank was full of light, fluffy bluish-white material that kept the water from draining. It wasn't the hard granules that I've typcially drained out from water heaters, but looked and felt like large soap flakes. I hadn't drained the tank the last 3 years or so becuase the valve dripped after I did it. We had a water softener fail about a year ago so maybe that's part of what caused this. Anyone have any idea what this is? After replacing the valve and cleaning the foreign material its back to normal. It has a 9 year warranty but if I have any more trouble I'm just replacing it. We have city water and our last heater lasted about 13 years before the tank started leaking. I figure 10 yrs is typical for a water heater. Ben..... On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Randall wrote: > > Are there any truly good, durable, natural-gas-fired > > conventional water > > heaters made nowadays? It appears that most of the major > > brands come from > > two main conglomerates: > > I don't know who actually made it, but the GE brand heater I got from Home > Depot about 12 years ago seems to be holding up well. I > get some rusty sediment when I open the drain valve every few years, but > not very much and it likely comes from the cast iron pipes > leading to the house & heater. > > There is a hex head for the anode, but I've never tried to change it. > Probably should do that some time. There's a sticker on the > side that says to call GE for support, but I've never called them. > > When you hook the new one up, be sure to get the flexible lines with the > insulators at the heater end. They'll help block any > galvanic currents that can eat up the heater. Both this house and my > previous house didn't have them when I moved in. > > Randall > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bjzwissler@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Dec 12 14:28:03 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F8F342EEB for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 14:28:03 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from webmail.cci-ir.com (unknown [173.164.21.58]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5250642EFF for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2013 11:38:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from BNAVEX01.cci-ir.com ([fe80::412a:4b84:74d2:452d]) by BNAVEX01.cci-ir.com ([fe80::412a:4b84:74d2:452d%12]) with mapi id 14.02.0347.000; Wed, 11 Dec 2013 12:24:44 -0600 From: Gil Fuqua To: Randall , 'Karl Vacek' , "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Thread-Topic: [Shop-talk] Water heater quality Thread-Index: Ac710Wewf1jJvyEkRuKEXfi4oLgHRAAwhE8AAAKdbxA= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 18:24:43 +0000 References: <000c01cef5f6$c217e970$4647bc50$@Ameritech.net> <62.E6.11872.A4E98A25@cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US x-originating-ip: [192.168.100.222] Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Water heater quality Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Speaking of GE....my son had a problem with a GE water heater installed in the house he recently purchased. He is not a techie person, but willing to try. He called GE and they walked him through a full diagnostic procedure and he determined that the thermostat was bad. He was very impressed with GE's support. In the end, the water heater was 10 years old and he elected to replace it with an identical GE unit from Home Depot. He is a happy customer. Gil Fuqua Nashville -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Randall Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 11:18 AM To: 'Karl Vacek'; shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Water heater quality > Are there any truly good, durable, natural-gas-fired conventional > water heaters made nowadays? It appears that most of the major brands > come from two main conglomerates: I don't know who actually made it, but the GE brand heater I got from Home Depot about 12 years ago seems to be holding up well. I get some rusty sediment when I open the drain valve every few years, but not very much and it likely comes from the cast iron pipes leading to the house & heater. There is a hex head for the anode, but I've never tried to change it. Probably should do that some time. There's a sticker on the side that says to call GE for support, but I've never called them. When you hook the new one up, be sure to get the flexible lines with the insulators at the heater end. They'll help block any galvanic currents that can eat up the heater. Both this house and my previous house didn't have them when I moved in. Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/gil.fuqua@cci-ir.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Dec 12 14:37:41 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 586BE42FC1 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 14:37:41 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from eastrmfepo202.cox.net (eastrmfepo202.cox.net [68.230.241.217]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2745042EF1 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 14:01:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from eastrmimpo110 ([68.230.241.223]) by eastrmfepo202.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.01.05.09 201-2260-151-124-20120717) with ESMTP id <20131212204534.CDOG3871.eastrmfepo202.cox.net@eastrmimpo110> for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 15:45:34 -0500 Received: from Joanna ([72.209.198.214]) by eastrmimpo110 with cox id 0klX1n0034e2Beo01klZli; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 15:45:34 -0500 a=z+JOQeSqIXLCGjBsmWTDRw==:17 a=HhLU_efIYhUA:10 a=G8Uczd0VNMoA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=kviXuzpPAAAA:8 a=iSiVqupxmt8A:10 a=qINxg979f2JdlTm88OQA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=PG6IEiRUiPwA:10 a=9gdqmcKYfWkA:10 a=z+JOQeSqIXLCGjBsmWTDRw==:117 Authentication-Results: cox.net; none From: "ElanS4" To: References: <000c01cef5f6$c217e970$4647bc50$@Ameritech.net> <0JD81n01X0NyJgq01JDBjb> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 15:45:43 -0500 thread-index: AQKXAt4Rxg3bgn9+WePHNKfUSk5qopjA79cw Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Water heater quality Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Randall wrote: > > When you hook the new one up, be sure to get the flexible lines with the insulators <...> One other modest suggestion. Get two ball valves and install one on the intake and the other on the output. It shure makes things easier in the future if you have to replace the hot water heater, or do maintenance, etc. Tim Mullen _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Dec 12 15:32:13 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B4E742EED for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 15:32:13 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mta41.charter.net (mta41.charter.net [216.33.127.83]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ED1640451 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 14:59:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from imp10 ([10.20.200.15]) by mta41.charter.net (InterMail vM.8.01.05.02 201-2260-151-103-20110920) with ESMTP id <20131212215644.NGUL10143.mta41.charter.net@imp10> for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 16:56:44 -0500 Received: from wt03 ([209.225.8.43]) by imp10 with smtp.charter.net id 0lwk1n0080vicD505lwk41; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 16:56:44 -0500 a=Z4TQKS4b1FWJCyODdTdfPg==:17 a=cWQ9uGxeeyIA:10 a=HhLU_efIYhUA:10 a=yUnIBFQkZM0A:10 a=NsTC7Sr0l8AA:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=hOpmn2quAAAA:8 a=iSiVqupxmt8A:10 a=zOoktvdPAAAA:8 a=7AvXhXXMVPosar_2aW0A:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Z4TQKS4b1FWJCyODdTdfPg==:117 Received: from [24.196.150.253] by enhanced.charter.net with HTTP; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 16:56:44 -0500 Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 16:56:44 -0500 (EST) From: Tim To: Shop Talk User-Agent: Laszlo Mail 3 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Water heater quality Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net gas or electric? thanks On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Gil Fuqua wrote: > Speaking of GE....my son had a problem with a GE water heater > installed in the > house he recently purchased. He is not a techie person, but willing > to try. > He called GE and they walked him through a full diagnostic procedure > and he > determined that the thermostat was bad. He was very impressed with > GE's > support. > > In the end, the water heater was 10 years old and he elected to > replace it > with an identical GE unit from Home Depot. He is a happy customer. > > Gil Fuqua > Nashville > > -----Original Message----- > From: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > [mailto:shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Randall > Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 11:18 AM > To: 'Karl Vacek'; shop-talk@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Water heater quality > >> Are there any truly good, durable, natural-gas-fired conventional >> water heaters made nowadays? It appears that most of the major >> brands >> come from two main conglomerates: > > I don't know who actually made it, but the GE brand heater I got from > Home > Depot about 12 years ago seems to be holding up well. I get some > rusty > sediment when I open the drain valve every few years, but not very > much and it > likely comes from the cast iron pipes leading to the house & heater. > > There is a hex head for the anode, but I've never tried to change it. > Probably should do that some time. There's a sticker on the side that > says to > call GE for support, but I've never called them. > > When you hook the new one up, be sure to get the flexible lines with > the > insulators at the heater end. They'll help block any galvanic > currents that > can eat up the heater. Both this house and my previous house didn't > have them > when I moved in. > > Randall > _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Dec 12 17:01:50 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4E0942F1C for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 17:01:50 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from webmail.cci-ir.com (unknown [74.255.129.194]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B46E540078 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 16:51:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from BNAVEX01.cci-ir.com ([fe80::412a:4b84:74d2:452d]) by BNAVEX01.cci-ir.com ([fe80::412a:4b84:74d2:452d%12]) with mapi id 14.02.0347.000; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 16:50:55 -0600 From: Gil Fuqua To: Tim , Shop Talk Thread-Topic: [Shop-talk] Water heater quality Thread-Index: AQHO94ULf1jJvyEkRuKEXfi4oLgHRJpRKhpQ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 22:50:53 +0000 References: <2d967a0f.2e7a5.142e8cfd659.Webtop.43@charter.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US x-originating-ip: [192.168.100.222] Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Water heater quality Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net GE electric water heater. Gil -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Tim Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 3:57 PM To: Shop Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Water heater quality gas or electric? thanks On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Gil Fuqua wrote: > Speaking of GE....my son had a problem with a GE water heater > installed in the house he recently purchased. He is not a techie > person, but willing to try. > He called GE and they walked him through a full diagnostic procedure > and he determined that the thermostat was bad. He was very impressed > with GE's support. > > In the end, the water heater was 10 years old and he elected to > replace it with an identical GE unit from Home Depot. He is a happy > customer. > > Gil Fuqua > Nashville > > -----Original Message----- > From: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > [mailto:shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Randall > Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 11:18 AM > To: 'Karl Vacek'; shop-talk@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Water heater quality > >> Are there any truly good, durable, natural-gas-fired conventional >> water heaters made nowadays? It appears that most of the major >> brands come from two main conglomerates: > > I don't know who actually made it, but the GE brand heater I got from > Home Depot about 12 years ago seems to be holding up well. I get some > rusty sediment when I open the drain valve every few years, but not > very much and it likely comes from the cast iron pipes leading to the > house & heater. > > There is a hex head for the anode, but I've never tried to change it. > Probably should do that some time. There's a sticker on the side that > says to call GE for support, but I've never called them. > > When you hook the new one up, be sure to get the flexible lines with > the insulators at the heater end. They'll help block any galvanic > currents that can eat up the heater. Both this house and my previous > house didn't have them when I moved in. > > Randall > _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/gil.fuqua@cci-ir.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Dec 12 17:06:30 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7B2342F3B for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 17:06:30 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from eastrmfepo101.cox.net (eastrmfepo101.cox.net [68.230.241.213]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FD6240524 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 17:06:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from eastrmimpo210 ([68.230.241.225]) by eastrmfepo203.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.01.05.09 201-2260-151-124-20120717) with ESMTP id <20131212234307.DWHJ3853.eastrmfepo203.cox.net@eastrmimpo210> for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 18:43:07 -0500 Received: from Joanna ([72.209.198.214]) by eastrmimpo210 with cox id 0nj41n00A4e2Beo01nj7lA; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 18:43:07 -0500 a=z+JOQeSqIXLCGjBsmWTDRw==:17 a=HhLU_efIYhUA:10 a=G8Uczd0VNMoA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=kviXuzpPAAAA:8 a=iSiVqupxmt8A:10 a=atvP8zOwOkUJlKvHqwYA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=z+JOQeSqIXLCGjBsmWTDRw==:117 Authentication-Results: cox.net; none From: "ElanS4" To: References: <000c01cef5f6$c217e970$4647bc50$@Ameritech.net> <62.E6.11872.A4E98A25@cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com> <0lQy1n00B0NyJgq01lQzMP> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 18:43:16 -0500 thread-index: AQIswTx4MZzT58PzgYG3tcaI5+7b8AKaPXlJAcFeyc+Zcsb1kA== Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Water heater quality Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Benjamin Zwissler wrote: > > The interesting and troublesome part of the repalement was that the bottom of > the tank was full of light, fluffy bluish-white material that kept the water from > draining. It wasn't the hard granules that I've typcially drained out from water > heaters, but looked and felt like large soap flakes. I've had something like this for the last 20 years or so... When it first happened, my buddy explained to me that it was from the plastic fill pipe that the cold water comes internally in the tank. It degrades over time. The "flakes" feel like thin strips of plastic film. I replaced the tank way back then (and once again since then), but that crap is still in my hot water tanks. Every now and then, I have to take apart my shower diverter valve and clean the stuff out. The shower head too. The rest of the house facets occasionally need it. I don't know if that's what's wrong with your system, but I have learned to never buy any heaters with internal plastic "pipes". Tim Mullen _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Dec 12 20:38:56 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC00042EED for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 20:38:56 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm18-vm8.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm18-vm8.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [216.109.115.87]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 949AD40E1A for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 20:06:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from [66.196.81.159] by nm18.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Dec 2013 03:03:26 -0000 Received: from [66.196.81.136] by tm5.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Dec 2013 03:03:26 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1012.access.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Dec 2013 03:03:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 98285 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Dec 2013 03:03:25 -0000 s=s1024; t=1386903805; bh=SwO6lOX1KAwQfraebJEe+KXBj3uNZGcVezaRgQHSmVI=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=q6v641bpx/4TPAfk5RIZDEq1QJaP9rmC9JqCcN6o7+x20MyEtpypgDD/di3XEAJzXnZCrIwnLOD4otlR6je0luj2c+ClJofOGt7uaBf2c9bRDj1u+5Yd60gktv4h4QO4a7qxLtq1NWIfxKM2MffXZNmBk26GOFiQeappIf/Ikew= s=s1024; d=pacbell.net; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=4h+Snty7eWKcqTINbHnlaKia5zDwgnbw87yVXQvwfBHHwBo4jkaN3CFrMjYr6CYq1TjfycFMmV6/Ax/BxuZ1Or6fX/XeQvxOOFvHGOIBsiRM6yDh2+iMNRFoakO0/0cz8lDR6MvDzCCclpNCxQ0KFPLi3BOhDSVgvxU2F1CuEm4=; Sfcc2LGs7axmx0mzgNf8_JbAzm0eUTM1bd9GAu.k1OPBJ1_r_5sFWPeK8ESc gJQaajZYPkydSCPcb6EpY0JL6sCKlqhXkYByXUx7kDM8CBX9V34YVq9md.hG 2L5FtU.z2RZ1itUMSSndJIe7kiDDsKE02kZYbzDJdVAhzxTeNd.w9x.c6wyn LEazt2RMLqQDurQurkHcndEKuH0.HvqJepbLD2bH6BE6e0Culb1h1tfM.Wau 0BqeL5CCT_E2kteWBCaoqRZVg4tx_NCRqJW7dvoGf_8Xao.y47fxcGbjT89l uKQVsOyPExjxe8YgV15.WsxWCzzH8iDcy3b4JrmuxRRRjM_zcmPm1q8czPrV lKOi5t2bYm7ngic2zfP0WJp9tqKvbgx9ehd3JkXz36Mb4jgIa0ajE6ols5zC k45T0gG2wm32S.w21bOyOCNrnt5VkScezzL6JCfF_STnGk.nE2PUoyMp.n9C vhJZEsibZm5lV1XJoh6CMlQ7xvHAvvOlB0LqQOoRZQgg408D13MYxSMSA2H7 fWC0Mh44uGQ0MVZOptrfb_MC_pneRbHVY_qW5O3E- Received: from [99.16.52.214] by web181305.mail.ne1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 19:03:25 PST SGkgS2FybCwKCk1vcmUgaW1wb3J0YW50IHRoYW4gdGhlIHByaWNlIG9yIHRoZSB3YXJyYW50eSBvbiB0aGUgaGVhdGVyIGlzIHRoYXQgeW91IG5lZWQgdG8gY2hhbmdlIG91dCB0aGUgc2FjcmlmaWNpYWwgYW5vZGUgcm9kIGV2ZXJ5IGZpdmUgeWVhcnMgaWYgeW91IGRvIG5vdCBzb2Z0ZW4geW91ciB3YXRlciwgYW5kIGV2ZXJ5IHRocmVlIHllYXJzIGlmIHlvdSBoYXZlIGEgd2F0ZXIgc29mdGVuZXIuCgpUaGUgYW5vZGUgcm9kIHdpbGwgYmUgZnVsbHkgY29uc3VtZWQgYWZ0ZXIgYWJvdXQgZml2ZSB5ZWFycyABMAEBAQE- References: <000c01cef5f6$c217e970$4647bc50$@Ameritech.net> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 19:03:25 -0800 (PST) From: old dirtbeard To: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Water heater quality Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Hi Karl, More important than the price or the warranty on the heater is that you need to change out the sacrificial anode rod every five years if you do not soften your water, and every three years if you have a water softener. The anode rod will be fully consumed after about five years depending upon your water and your usage, and then at that point, the liner of the tank begins to "sacrifice itself." I think you can keep a water heater almost indefinitely if you routinely change out the sacrificial anode every three-five years, depending on your water. Most of them screw in from the top next to the water inlet pipe. Some are actually inserted through the water inlet pipe. The cost is between $20-$75 depending upon the size of the tank and whether you want to aluminium, zinc, or composites. You can order them off the web if you local plumbing supply store does not stock them (many do not). Aluminum works great but potentially can add aluminum to your water. Not a problem unless you are drinking large amounts of hot water. I have been changing them out for years and have yet needed to replace a water heater. I currently have a 75 gallon water heater that is 15 years old and am just ready to replace the rod again. It has limited clearance above the tank so I need to use flexible anode rods so that I can feed them through (the rods are about the height of the tank and the space above the tank is less than the height of the tank). best, doug ________________ '72 BSA B50SS '74 Moto Guzzi 850T '01 HD XHL 883 '03 GMC Cargo Van '07 Aprilia SXV 550 '13 Aprilia Tuono V4R ________________________________ From: Karl Vacek To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 2:25 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] Water heater quality Are there any truly good, durable, natural-gas-fired conventional water heaters made nowadays? It appears that most of the major brands come from two main conglomerates: Rheem/Ruud/Richmond/etc. and _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Dec 12 21:05:48 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 154A442EFF for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 21:05:48 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cartman.xxiii.com (lan23.xxiii.com [24.246.172.99]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B020D4006C for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 20:39:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (host-173-246-211-60.morrisbb.com [173.246.211.60] (may be forged)) by cartman.xxiii.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id rBD3Z2io025944 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 22:35:02 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wc5813@gmail.com) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 22:34:58 -0500 From: w User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <000c01cef5f6$c217e970$4647bc50$@Ameritech.net> <0JD81n01X0NyJgq01JDBjb> <00d801cef77b$204abc90$60e035b0$@cox.net> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Water heater quality Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On 12/12/2013 3:45 PM, ElanS4 wrote: >> When you hook the new one up, be sure to get the flexible lines with the > insulators <...> > > One other modest suggestion. Get two ball valves and install one on the > intake and the other on the output. It shure makes things easier in the > future if you have to replace the hot water heater, or do maintenance, etc. I installed one of the Whirlpool electrics with the "energy smart" control from Lowes back in 2006 after getting in a pissing match with my propane company, and figuring out electric was cheaper to operate. They're made by "American Water Heater" in TN, and I've read some bad stories about them, but mine's run fine, and my utility bills have dropped. Recovery time on it is very quick. Other installation tips: I did mine with CPVC spliced into the copper. Easy stuff to work with and reasonably priced. I did some stuff plumbers would never take the time or expense to do; besides the ball valves on BOTH lines, install pipe unions. I had to temporarily move mine to install a new, much larger well pressure tank a couple years later, and my friend & I drained, disconnected, and slid the heater 3 feet to the side for access in under 15 minutes. The unions also let air in rapidly for easy routine flushes (and I can crack them open by hand.) If yours is sitting on concrete, like a basement, the stuff is alkaline and often has water vapor coming up through it. You've probably seen tanks with the bottom of the housing corroded out. I laid down some of the plastic used for tile shower stalls under it as a vapor barrier. The el-cheapo plastic drain valves like to clog up, leak, and are slow to drain. Before you fill the thing, buy a brass pipe nipple, ball valve, and hose bib fitting and replace the plastic junk for easy flushes. This place has lots of good advice and products, but is expensive: http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pages/WHRpages/English/OrderPages/XCart/Ball-Valve-Drain-Assembly.html If you're not short of dough and just want the right stuff quick & easy, cost no object, go for it. But you can get it cheaper at any local plumbing place. -Good Luck! Wayne _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Dec 12 22:43:01 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A26542EF0 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 22:43:01 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cartman.xxiii.com (lan23.xxiii.com [24.246.172.99]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F38840325 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 22:31:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (host-173-246-211-60.morrisbb.com [173.246.211.60] (may be forged)) by cartman.xxiii.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id rBD4SbLh026088 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 23:28:37 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wc5813@gmail.com) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 23:28:33 -0500 From: w User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <000c01cef5f6$c217e970$4647bc50$@Ameritech.net> <1386903805.88736.YahooMailNeo@web181305.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Water heater quality Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On 12/12/2013 10:03 PM, old dirtbeard wrote: > More important than the price or the warranty on the heater is that > you need to change out the sacrificial anode rod every five years if you do > not soften your water, and every three years if you have a water softener. Doug, any suggestions on how to unscrew stubborn rods? Need to swap out the ones at my Mom's and my own. 1 1/16" socket seems pretty standard for them. Mom's won't budge with an 18" breaker bar on it. No compressed air; I filled my little portable tank and tried the 1/2" impact on it, but couldn't get enough run time to do any good. -Wayne _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Dec 13 01:37:29 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C95142982 for ; Fri, 13 Dec 2013 01:37:29 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.120]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9E2E42798 for ; Fri, 13 Dec 2013 01:37:21 -0700 (MST) a=iHrfZUqj8pI4/cobIDz1/A==:17 a=HhLU_efIYhUA:10 a=05ChyHeVI94A:10 a=ExDAyBU5CxkA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=KGjhK52YXX0A:10 a=iSiVqupxmt8A:10 a=6W7jnZpCkzri0sfcdrQA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=iHrfZUqj8pI4/cobIDz1/A==:117 Received: from [76.168.149.236] ([76.168.149.236:55001] helo=rypc) by cdptpa-oedge02.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id DC/29-21976-F86CAA25; Fri, 13 Dec 2013 08:34:23 +0000 From: "Randall" To: Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 00:34:22 -0800 Thread-Index: Ac73uHIPE3gUf5DjQDickNTvtzSl2AAJCUUg Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Water heater quality Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > If yours is sitting on concrete, like a basement, the stuff > is alkaline > and often has water vapor coming up through it. You've probably seen > tanks with the bottom of the housing corroded out. I laid > down some of > the plastic used for tile shower stalls under it as a vapor barrier. They were a bit tough to find, but HD had galvanized catch pans designed to go under the heater and be plumbed to a drain. I think they are actually required by building code around here for installations inside the house. Hopefully when the heater does spring a leak, it will help keep the water away from the wood floors. > The el-cheapo plastic drain valves like to clog up, leak, and > are slow > to drain. Before you fill the thing, buy a brass pipe nipple, ball > valve, and hose bib fitting and replace the plastic junk for > easy flushes. Or look for a heater like the one I got, which came with a brass globe valve for the drain. IMO the globe valve is easier to control, which is important if you are draining to a mop bucket (as I usually do). Less hassle (and mess) than dragging a hose through the house. Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Dec 13 07:34:44 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A4C342F36 for ; Fri, 13 Dec 2013 07:34:44 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm14.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (nm14.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [216.39.62.45]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B871242EFB for ; Fri, 13 Dec 2013 07:15:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from [216.39.60.171] by nm14.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Dec 2013 14:11:05 -0000 Received: from [216.39.60.164] by tm7.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Dec 2013 14:11:05 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1030.access.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Dec 2013 14:11:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 29603 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Dec 2013 14:11:04 -0000 s=s1024; t=1386943864; bh=jYHMQZ7VCv5rbwXvXhPhdFHnDlP6eTy2iVU6yr+baYo=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=fYzLFhXzwj3zpijTWcGvmg7gg8pnBtXgm8w2lNqXUFXPtdudriqdDKYinr5wn3dvUnk0g4PYeC+xEcefkn0mCHXGucHoypBf9GGYYaSxC7eLOxyDdWDCpTv+co7QM/VqI1k7vYLggXuv6NJ+FmkTVJMwSSm+d3N9yxvVSsbaSvM= s=s1024; d=pacbell.net; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=DYypAaptZuIyJNtvLxmG1O13w/qyhJZYLQZz9WndNc+iWEX0T9h5Xteqdrwgc0YeFg68LvyCmBKcPLnz0xNx6/Xcvbbh+8GfHoFBpamtc08vx36YXyko4v+odIchN/cbelE6KjmjdAlqXhRbPUDY9Qa5uE5k6+efmzip5FTIcrk=; OLngJI1MWs8oIlc8rA.TqSGUIe6BEvTP5XZrXiNxt2z.Gpw.DI.LpsPyXjIc mYUcQQnJg3HgWxpbZESw3oSnOAN6v95d9zfnd7e2DtuIog5qOIuIiuLQCIr. s9jNdcl7UelpeVxyoLg8R6fy50L9FgUOQSy4LEb1MzMgn1qPT_XuuVNQTD6s BY71rMJVNw2h7X6JoHNU0q8Z34GTPBMM_iHFEKLfyacqG1E1m6tp1RRGFVb6 A1gqYhbp4lYqP2B_dFtvO1CSHkgZkFZ8rTzMl2Bptsg_gNe1qn7rJATyHV3Z zlUVB1v3SAzlZ.1KayCkOqAfbbFOA4sO2WA3.xHZpVSBT11oEYUq09zDHBh. P3uXX5hfzIVFPS4XmQe76XSmqXuFoprR6BnDIGOy2xOpBSIuJzG41wmH1dde QhdF5iJZO4aLmF_z3afcVuT8n1198jREiz8220TIYUswYpK1Q.QXXc2MujiH oBhWY8h1E81lq_OQRSEoTihfr1oXZ7XYR.TutcOj0UsnqtbD36h_bfFTqcHB .mAT_kw6dqX8DCWtmeT97N8kgZZcv._YccLsrCynZ8cZinDBO_wwQny1U._8 WGktxwW9xgqPujWQJ0husfcb2MBPguQ-- Received: from [99.103.7.134] by web181305.mail.ne1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 13 Dec 2013 06:11:04 PST SGkgV2F5bmUsCgpPbmNlIHlvdSBoYXZlIGl0IG91dCBhbmQgcmVwbGFjZSBpdCwgSSB3cmFwIHRoZSB0aHJlYWRzIGluIHBpcGUgdGFwZSBzbyBpdCBjb21lcyBvdXQgZWFzeSB0aGUgbmV4dCB0aW1lLCBidXQgdGhhdCB3aWxsIG5vdCBoZWxwIG9uIHRoZSBmaXJzdCByZW1vdmFsLgoKSSBkb24ndCByZWNhbGwgaGF2aW5nIHRoYXQgbXVjaCB0cm91YmxlIGJyZWFraW5nIGl0IGxvb3NlIHRoZSBmaXJzdCB0aW1lLCB0aG91Z2gsIEkgZG8gaGF2ZSBhIGxhcmdlIDMvNCIgYnJlYWtlciBiYXIgdGhhdCBwcm92aWQBMAEBAQE- References: <000c01cef5f6$c217e970$4647bc50$@Ameritech.net> <1386903805.88736.YahooMailNeo@web181305.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <52AA8CF1.6010001@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 06:11:04 -0800 (PST) From: old dirtbeard To: w , "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Water heater quality Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Hi Wayne, Once you have it out and replace it, I wrap the threads in pipe tape so it comes out easy the next time, but that will not help on the first removal. I don't recall having that much trouble breaking it loose the first time, though, I do have a large 3/4" breaker bar that provides a good deal of leverage. I am surprised that a impact wrench wouldn't break it loose. Can you get a couple extra lengths of air hose to reach it, or borrow a portable compressor? I would have to believe that a 1/2" impact wrench on a portable compressor would back it out easily, or get a long 3/4" drive breaker bar, or use a piece of galv. or iron water pipe over the handle of your current breaker bar to increase your torque. Again, though, I am a little surprised that it is so tight/frozen... best, doug ________________________________ From: w To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 8:28 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Water heater quality On 12/12/2013 10:03 PM, old dirtbeard wrote: > More important than the price or the warranty on the heater is that > you need to change out the sacrificial anode rod every five years if you do > not soften your water, and every three years if you have a water softener. Doug, any suggestions on how to unscrew stubborn rods? Need to swap out the ones at my Mom's and my own. 1 1/16" socket seems pretty standard for them. Mom's won't budge with an 18" breaker bar on it. No compressed air; I filled my little portable tank and tried the 1/2" impact on it, but couldn't get enough run time to do any good. -Wayne _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard@pacbell.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Dec 13 22:59:19 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05E17429A2 for ; Fri, 13 Dec 2013 22:59:19 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from qmta15.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta15.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.27.228]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FAD240409 for ; Fri, 13 Dec 2013 22:54:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from omta11.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.36]) by qmta15.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 1Hmz1n0030mlR8UAFHojkK; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 05:48:43 +0000 Received: from sz0220.ev.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.40.137]) by omta11.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 1Hor1n0032xZMJ48XHorj9; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 05:48:51 +0000 Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 05:48:50 +0000 (UTC) From: pethier@comcast.net To: shop-talk@autox.team.net s=q20121106; t=1387000123; bh=SinhfEBwl3DOm2dn5zqIY2RASj6+rSlhHUBPwEfBaqU=; h=Received:Received:Date:From:To:Message-ID:Subject:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=HGeu/upgW2vUST/45v5byj0VQsFqUq3xrGiWFejMxmeZL15P3NBnorQwXW0TqKzTG F28Jg+wWxW3oKtFz3w0JOQ6lIvxVMWTu3OlB7qaaECNRjEJZ5QfpwLqa/Y73SlUu4F w/wHD+RbQG3ullOGkaO6UyAdmC74Q4vutm5nFS7kXgSZuRnfmnrxtQe7uFTsP/uvIf dARRFOr3QZ3hd2BYnvR23YGD0BVA6lyHP8NRgwultF2uJKiR8TaNYn9k8MwtM0YvaA nuUQ3JGH/2qPl7bpvegibTlp/o4b2Z3ICGmlxYgCRcwN4xJFh4qkfK82D73ol+sgBV hFnF9hSBWXnVQ== Subject: [Shop-talk] Oil-pressure gauge goes nuts on Suburban. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net 2004 Chevrolet Suburban. Picked up my truck after it had been sitting out in the 11-degree-F cold for a while. Started OK. The oil-pressure gauge was pegged WAY past the end. Stopped the truck after it was warm and went into a store. Came out and turned on the ignition. Needle went to full scale. Started the engine and needle went to full-on pegged again. Stayed that way until I shut it off in the garage. Needle went to zero. Ignition on, back to full scale. Restart engine, back to superpeg again. All the other gauges seem to be acting normally. Anybody else ever seen anything like this? Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue 2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red, the only automatic of the bunch 2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4, Berry Red pethier@comcast.net http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier http://www.flickr.com/groups/triumphtransamerica http://www.mnautox.com http://www.mntriumphs.org2004 Suburban. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Dec 14 09:03:42 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F36D42F95 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 09:03:42 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm26-vm7.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm26-vm7.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [216.109.115.214]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 3822A42F86 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 09:02:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from [66.196.81.166] by nm26.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2013 15:59:41 -0000 Received: from [66.196.81.130] by tm12.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2013 15:59:41 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1006.access.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2013 15:59:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 19061 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Dec 2013 15:59:41 -0000 s=s1024; t=1387036781; bh=OKU6PCOMbxcFk8x7t/rvWJ410BCTWLOdPn+soM9mkFk=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=Js966sVJarQhbuoNv5AnyRQu8p3pA0UXsqo1W0UmceURk6vsns6khwoKCY7zAkqPww3FuFHDGMXhfPgn4XTF3/amiP2wVH7/GRRi99FKOeJP9RNHGMqsC6Uo9ij1daGiHlCcmPtEndnrRPB/vFzQgc5UREywpAfdL0ubj0FosQc= s=s1024; d=pacbell.net; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=X01nV6SANBKHn66ZnyPyAIjz/vRRPaGKESxKDiPBVG5xiWn3p2cuM2zEa+zL4L8ld4V6EUqrorBZ6TgPlZt/UeAkqEuTL42JUBVFZzCjqOqN0BCIbgyYODr3eLLNmr8hL5cM5fWk2AVcVEjqOl0lCbBEviR9ZyYmLQhGxl3F7RM=; BWy3cNlrn6qSqzxVC_kjFoC4SaEaEHYd1kyZ24JnmDwC2GmTsMPg3bgyP6FP Z9bJPZEhekgGjo0pgcGBwUylEVHViO_KjLBYOgXdpduNGSySXZRHL6gnzE2g jQz_BVwrmLq3K22MoTNeV3N0EjVqAYlQSeLKqX8q3a_cXQipftaU5jsxHnop s3ePEDQkIeO7F2NnJtMyXY92tpZuQ_hBLjmBKS9wyFtIzIxoYfoQ4wqM4_Jp M.Urx3d2ngiAUXPGtYMPg3mqV7cYSrlzOLtWvti6CPhN.gRSQXIQ6b6ffEEF D5NLWK8FYTDd0MVOf2Cllg063dnveeE97Ln8X2A6drCtF_yoApq0rocl.f1B OLskKCkEe1q25CbhNzRxnFniq7MxYJ44e0sLMnTMLbxMddOhPAJ77z3aSTPO m8P9aFFpfcTUgtumO6OkI_2zCmfFG2YAZIkj3ZRTuQWmlg75XQwQRW1ZdS7H AZBySMizLbrh_fvxAx_m.YaqqvhEeREKJDCLRTtyobKDWeYxWRxLHNmLLFqP tYIQN3X4o4UxMzLqe4qhhk8w3SX3R7RLuzVE31JRTRAYeFdRQ.in.1T0IUB0 6KTucCTigqBLzPX6C1juzi324FL97KdPymzbTXQcwFi9yYeU49b1TqVeRoV1 SBXcbZPmU5pturcCw8SrFDqhuCvft99g7PUEq7Mhy9N2zk_OAJu2ufA1hYMj 3858QQIrVQEBwbFaJIsDzGsMXa8JKLiu2ebiro8VxpkSivg_3pitA_uQSs8o x_QfRWsTCwr2dM2ZlNgpY2NvWcJWrXeywmZtS Received: from [99.16.54.138] by web181304.mail.ne1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 07:59:41 PST SGkgUGhpbCwKCkp1c3QgYSBndWVzcywgYnV0IHBlcmhhcHMgdGhlIHZpc2Nvc2l0eSBvZiB0aGUgb2lsIGF0IDExIGFib3ZlIHdhcyB0aGljayBlbm91Z2ggdG8gamFtIHRoZSBzZW5kZXIgdW5pdCB3aWRlIG9wZW4gYW5kIG5vdyBpdCBpcyBzdHVjayB0aGVyZS4gwqBNYXliZSB3aXRoIGhlYXQgYW5kIGN5Y2xlcyBpdCB3aWxsIGZyZWUgdXAgYWdhaW4uIMKgSnVzdCBhIGd1ZXNzLi4uCsKgCmJlc3QsCgpkb3VnCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KJzcyIEJTQSBCNTBTUwonNzQgTW90byBHdXp6aSA4NTBUCgonMDEBMAEBAQE- References: <1792144760.534071.1385480177493.JavaMail.root@sz0220a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <2074460272.27775.1387000130982.JavaMail.root@sz0220a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 07:59:41 -0800 (PST) From: old dirtbeard To: "pethier@comcast.net" , "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Oil-pressure gauge goes nuts on Suburban. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Hi Phil, Just a guess, but perhaps the viscosity of the oil at 11 above was thick enough to jam the sender unit wide open and now it is stuck there. Maybe with heat and cycles it will free up again. Just a guess... best, doug ________________ '72 BSA B50SS '74 Moto Guzzi 850T '01 HD XHL 883 '03 GMC Cargo Van '07 Aprilia SXV 550 '13 Aprilia Tuono V4R To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 9:48 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] Oil-pressure gauge goes nuts on Suburban. 2004 Chevrolet Suburban. Picked up my truck after it had been sitting out in the 11-degree-F cold for a while. Started OK. The oil-pressure gauge was pegged WAY past the end. Stopped the truck after it was warm and went into a store. Came out and turned on the ignition. Needle went to full scale. Started the engine and needle went to full-on pegged again. Stayed that way until I shut it off in the garage. Needle went to zero. Ignition on, back to full scale. Restart engine, back to superpeg again. All the other gauges seem to be acting normally. Anybody else ever seen anything like this? Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue 2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red, the only automatic of the bunch 2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4, Berry Red pethier@comcast.net http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier http://www.flickr.com/groups/triumphtransamerica http://www.mnautox.com http://www.mntriumphs.org2004 Suburban. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard@pacbell.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Dec 14 10:49:01 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DD4042F87 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 10:49:01 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm11-vm10.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm11-vm10.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [216.109.114.233]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 18B9B40078 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 09:58:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from [66.196.81.165] by nm11.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2013 16:55:37 -0000 Received: from [98.139.221.158] by tm11.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2013 16:55:37 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp118.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2013 16:55:37 -0000 s=s1024; t=1387040137; bh=t1pr0rdV0aRjXa4D88qu0Ri6wv9JTpYegTKX3p9QQfo=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-Rocket-Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=g86faQbqA+mgyE1SUre8borRa3IowNW3k+QmnNmhLoeD1Hax36czITDhyxfUOuF+ICBiG00ImH8OCSOxm/5jSMguXRUPPEn7Eev7qd0pJCJdyG1WeuGCJsPAw/8wt+pEjcar950c0wXwODyZrOqzlbcJTnMDVrx/YyCrmoFtdZM= h.z28E7i44btwkZQtGuZ_WaIWsM0RdjkvKBmoxDchaDMSC5vylcU3eg0fkj2 boEIyikTvvWSNkSc5M6qeWmdx37W.P5KAkdO3lNmNM8bD7pYZWJ7r9TRlfpX bWWeGGfAPkBkpyRT9Gvb_6axnOAilYnbSIOAwbgRh0InndBwkccGLDS8qXym h5ZptVci6qX7sR5XWC_7mnk3VU2vNiWKyFa1TQrrPdjRa4Pk7Hu3BAopQXpn Tf1k_RVty6Tlwqfnq47AFkwY4gZL9a_H.ymUAiNRBcWcXheQAtVKYxoOG_kY VnfltJAFTsuE0zqNKjPhjTpuDDSS98AfexC1mE50WAJk6mQPvbJ0z0f_5d.z NxLQ_gXVhA_SlR5RA0gTmiPwH7.Gv14xy8NC.X9bolEHtMpj6lt3D6sgRLWE vW1aNNxv5pPHQQcyFE3Twe_5OPQDkeTb9dqBl0ZAySj0bJHpbuFjOeC2PJOI 8Kx2SteV1c_8QJIk7m2xaTagoTr6.oQwkpTjpEdoxDuDFrkoZUxqV.H0jsix qM_mDqUEGIXHSARH95Kaz7oK8BcV33UbG6uNmx5DDqoxHL0RgAkzOc2Pjnno hWUjCSw1IREkoEeMd1rbN9Nq0nALw9yrrs1ONfD.4P7bfXagWQsJolCUCHKj 3uvIlqCMYTU80iBGOP8DmO5kPBPMNN2qals0V3FDxbnt5Y0NlqHS5Iedzuat hX0bl8I2jgmyD6WZFIMgRVTWDlEPg plain [98.139.221.42]) by smtp118.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2013 16:55:37 +0000 UTC From: "John Niolon" To: "shop-talk" References: <1792144760.534071.1385480177493.JavaMail.root@sz0220a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net><2074460272.27775.1387000130982.JavaMail.root@sz0220a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <1387036781.17234.YahooMailNeo@web181304.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 10:55:57 -0600 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Oil-pressure gauge goes nuts on Suburban. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I tend to agree with DB... if it was actually the oil pump (spring broken) you would have blown an oil filter and never gotten out of the yard..... I'd suspect a bad sending unit (or stuck one) and the very last option would be a gauge... but they are usually either go or no go when they break.... might try removing the sending unit and cleaning it and cycling it a few times john ----- Original Message ----- From: "old dirtbeard" To: ; Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Oil-pressure gauge goes nuts on Suburban. > Hi Phil, > > Just a guess, but perhaps the viscosity of the oil at 11 above was > thick enough to jam the sender unit wide open and now it is stuck there. > Maybe with heat and cycles it will free up again. Just a guess... > > best, > doug > ________________ > '72 BSA B50SS > '74 Moto Guzzi 850T > > '01 HD XHL 883 > '03 > GMC Cargo Van > '07 Aprilia SXV 550 > '13 Aprilia Tuono V4R > To: shop-talk@autox.team.net > Sent: Friday, December 13, > 2013 9:48 PM > Subject: [Shop-talk] Oil-pressure gauge goes nuts on Suburban. > 2004 Chevrolet Suburban. Picked up my truck after it had been sitting out > in > the 11-degree-F cold for a while. Started OK. The oil-pressure gauge was > pegged WAY past the end. Stopped the truck after it was warm and went > into a > store. Came out and turned on the ignition. Needle went to full scale. > Started the engine and needle went to full-on pegged again. Stayed that > way > until I shut it off in the garage. Needle went to zero. Ignition on, > back to > full scale. Restart engine, back to superpeg again. > > All the other gauges > seem to be acting normally. > > Anybody else ever seen anything like this? > > Phil > Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA > 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle > jack", Sapphire Blue > 2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red, the only automatic of the > bunch > 2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl > 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4, Berry Red > pethier@comcast.net > http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier > http://www.flickr.com/groups/triumphtransamerica > http://www.mnautox.com > http://www.mntriumphs.org2004 Suburban. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard@pacbell.net > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jniolon@att.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Dec 14 12:28:01 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A325E42F91 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 12:28:01 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-vc0-f182.google.com (mail-vc0-f182.google.com [209.85.220.182]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D185F42EFB for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 11:55:45 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-vc0-f182.google.com with SMTP id lc6so2161209vcb.41 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 10:52:25 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=g9YGLs1y+2Vc0/QmRzYXv/59f51hU4W89o5d7fzCJds=; b=GUqK6nagY8P1/6qC0g8HJzYOxKpEnhNsrG5z2GRwXuUopsNJBlS3YNQmQIHeiR8J3E FF0lmw8dGxLnZCsxLEnQx3MdpKgpKFL2EUD8T0UnK95esU431ClvF3SFL86LWf8m/Ogm trUcQ0h0iYh0hxkp/g9okRNO5GS691tDD1OevuYg5HhnC0m4x/733KDX+LsT+F/7S5y0 crkRF2fngt0kndROQ5yF8ePAf2J+3Ha5aD2jvDb+Tl9QsT6pdrwCJfa4+FrXXx0n/LKM 9QlZdP6uZfR9mGb9CFvaopcpNd+F78Da0//YNVzMOUcvaR8H10e33o5/fdbHG4GeGjcJ ZIog== xy10mr73653vdb.65.1387046797355; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 10:46:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.58.1.74 with HTTP; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 10:46:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.58.1.74 with HTTP; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 10:46:37 -0800 (PST) References: <1792144760.534071.1385480177493.JavaMail.root@sz0220a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <2074460272.27775.1387000130982.JavaMail.root@sz0220a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 13:46:37 -0500 From: Jeff Scarbrough To: pethier@comcast.net Cc: shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Oil-pressure gauge goes nuts on Suburban. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I'm going to cast my vote for a short somewhere... On Dec 14, 2013 12:57 AM, wrote: 2004 Chevrolet Suburban. Picked up my truck after it had been sitting out in the 11-degree-F cold for a while. Started OK. The oil-pressure gauge was pegged WAY past the end. Stopped the truck after it was warm and went into a store. Came out and turned on the ignition. Needle went to full scale. Started the engine and needle went to full-on pegged again. Stayed that way until I shut it off in the garage. Needle went to zero. Ignition on, back to full scale. Restart engine, back to superpeg again. All the other gauges seem to be acting normally. Anybody else ever seen anything like this? Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue 2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red, the only automatic of the bunch 2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4, Berry Red pethier@comcast.net http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier http://www.flickr.com/groups/triumphtransamerica http://www.mnautox.com http://www.mntriumphs.org2004 Suburban. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Dec 14 13:22:07 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A6B442FB7 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 13:22:07 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from blu0-omc2-s19.blu0.hotmail.com (blu0-omc2-s19.blu0.hotmail.com [65.55.111.94]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E24C542787 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 12:56:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from BLU177-W48 ([65.55.111.71]) by blu0-omc2-s19.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Sat, 14 Dec 2013 11:50:52 -0800 From: John Henard To: "pethier@comcast.net" , "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 14:50:52 -0500 References: <1792144760.534071.1385480177493.JavaMail.root@sz0220a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>, <2074460272.27775.1387000130982.JavaMail.root@sz0220a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> FILETIME=[CB98BB20:01CEF905] Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Oil-pressure gauge goes nuts on Suburban. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Phil,Sounds like my 2004 Yukon Denali. Engine off oil pressure zero, turn on and it goes full scale and then back to zero when off. I read somewhere that was an indication of oil pressure sender. Replaced mine and fixed it and now acting normally.If your suburban is laid out like the Yukon (should be) I needed to get the socket at a FLAPS since now of mine would get a good bite on the sender. $43 for the sender and some bruised knuckles. Suggest laying down cardboard and maybe a towel over the engine so you can lay on the engine a bit more comfortably. Be careful with the sender I snapped the top on one and had to beg for a replacement. Good DIY but will require a few swear words --John Henard > Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 05:48:50 +0000 > From: pethier@comcast.net > To: shop-talk@autox.team.net > Subject: [Shop-talk] Oil-pressure gauge goes nuts on Suburban. > > 2004 Chevrolet Suburban. Picked up my truck after it had been sitting out in the 11-degree-F cold for a while. Started OK. The oil-pressure gauge was pegged WAY past the end. Stopped the truck after it was warm and went into a store. Came out and turned on the ignition. Needle went to full scale. Started the engine and needle went to full-on pegged again. Stayed that way until I shut it off in the garage. Needle went to zero. Ignition on, back to full scale. Restart engine, back to superpeg again. > > All the other gauges seem to be acting normally. > > Anybody else ever seen anything like this? > > Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA > 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue > 2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red, the only automatic of the bunch > 2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl > 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4, Berry Red > pethier@comcast.net > http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier > http://www.flickr.com/groups/triumphtransamerica > http://www.mnautox.com > http://www.mntriumphs.org2004 Suburban. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/johnhenard@hotmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Dec 14 13:43:06 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 409E042F9D for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 13:43:06 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ve0-f174.google.com (mail-ve0-f174.google.com [209.85.128.174]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E998E40514 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 13:09:24 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-ve0-f174.google.com with SMTP id pa12so2331636veb.33 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 12:06:18 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=w959jg2WLY/GH6N0RTQGhWwNgxdOYitBWhVAOFA51qg=; b=t0qBcpw45sKQS6E/LWqjtaXEXoM4JdBufK5JoGqjfPkV7ZQ/ZWJH9uY80+PPo6dcCu CKEg2dQ1wFo/amxxo8kXoIXpKitcawbfOaXRP37j8Hv8MrD+RW59Buw6fXgsoPmz63ET oEKgAPewm9OFfOVpbbRil2RfcbzflhfoxiB+ibrPoiJXzQvcnypRf00fN82ewXXEjBl8 UTgdKhgymy5AcpauUtqTfGA1AJBsBV3OFIuAS1xOArc9++2RkPyTWSe6zo0dWv6Rc3wh gLlJXk7JAatvYDxoHks2bn720lDCrj9WNOrRVtBJfNFmTnGu/IcqHGEyyLo7odmgWt85 xdMg== fb20mr4596223veb.6.1387050234621; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 11:43:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.52.111.137 with HTTP; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 11:43:54 -0800 (PST) References: <1792144760.534071.1385480177493.JavaMail.root@sz0220a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <2074460272.27775.1387000130982.JavaMail.root@sz0220a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 13:43:54 -0600 From: Ronnie Day To: Shop Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Oil-pressure gauge goes nuts on Suburban. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Does this thing have a sending unit? If it does, the sender could be bad. Curious to find out what the problem turns out to be. We have an '02 Suburban with the 5.3 LS series V-8. On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 12:46 PM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote: > I'm going to cast my vote for a short somewhere... > On Dec 14, 2013 12:57 AM, wrote: > > 2004 Chevrolet Suburban. Picked up my truck after it had been sitting out > in the 11-degree-F cold for a while. Started OK. The oil-pressure gauge > was pegged WAY past the end. Stopped the truck after it was warm and went > into a store. Came out and turned on the ignition. Needle went to full > scale. Started the engine and needle went to full-on pegged again. Stayed > that way until I shut it off in the garage. Needle went to zero. Ignition > on, back to full scale. Restart engine, back to superpeg again. > > All the other gauges seem to be acting normally. > > Anybody else ever seen anything like this? > > Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA > 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue > 2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red, the only automatic of the bunch > 2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl > 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4, Berry Red > pethier@comcast.net > http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier > http://www.flickr.com/groups/triumphtransamerica > http://www.mnautox.com > http://www.mntriumphs.org2004 Suburban. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ronnie.day@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Dec 14 14:01:25 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 462C142F91 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 14:01:25 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-vb0-f53.google.com (mail-vb0-f53.google.com [209.85.212.53]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEAE140546 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 13:34:28 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-vb0-f53.google.com with SMTP id o19so2161701vbm.26 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 12:31:22 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc :content-type; bh=mMrSgsW1pORYo84IqGuAsqXKtAfp1phYcEg0VLbeyi0=; b=IEwA/6h9NjwTBLrL6g7GcWP9h/gwVr+MsCg6IM/6nCdYTwLrK5/++4RH9VbzMU9Igx bd/FdV2M4cxhRHTP5UGNi7u53CBpR1+Rw88IxpXgzEJRd/YqMxb6hBDeYNa2hzjfcaWI NkuHwKDExJczuSdwaMobuezS8cClD/HrqJnZBA83B5WENrLx8ZGHXE+BZDpY6DCU9nBW nNJ6DAeiVX2Xh6vPPR6KiauY+oqw4Day25p2fcVXby9pXIxvORy9q8F/sxVg7J94qU4Q Xknj5tBBQXFvW1ihkFnjMS1Hjd6yGeFiZnImuxPVGnBDQT7fqx1+Va5RaWvF/gC3JA80 +mUg== fb20mr4651579veb.6.1387053082570; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 12:31:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.52.111.137 with HTTP; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 12:31:22 -0800 (PST) References: <1792144760.534071.1385480177493.JavaMail.root@sz0220a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <2074460272.27775.1387000130982.JavaMail.root@sz0220a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 14:31:22 -0600 From: Ronnie Day Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Oil-pressure gauge goes nuts on Suburban. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net John, Where's the sender located on the engine? These LS series are very different from the older SBCs. On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 1:50 PM, John Henard wrote: > Phil,Sounds like my 2004 Yukon Denali. Engine off oil pressure zero, turn > on > and it goes full scale and then back to zero when off. I read somewhere > that > was an indication of oil pressure sender. Replaced mine and fixed it and > now > acting normally.If your suburban is laid out like the Yukon (should be) I > needed to get the socket at a FLAPS since now of mine would get a good > bite on > the sender. $43 for the sender and some bruised knuckles. Suggest laying > down > cardboard and maybe a towel over the engine so you can lay on the engine a > bit > more comfortably. Be careful with the sender I snapped the top on one and > had > to beg for a replacement. Good DIY but will require a few swear words > > --John Henard > > > > Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 05:48:50 +0000 > > From: pethier@comcast.net > > To: shop-talk@autox.team.net > > Subject: [Shop-talk] Oil-pressure gauge goes nuts on Suburban. > > > > 2004 Chevrolet Suburban. Picked up my truck after it had been sitting > out > in the 11-degree-F cold for a while. Started OK. The oil-pressure gauge > was > pegged WAY past the end. Stopped the truck after it was warm and went > into a > store. Came out and turned on the ignition. Needle went to full scale. > Started the engine and needle went to full-on pegged again. Stayed that > way > until I shut it off in the garage. Needle went to zero. Ignition on, > back to > full scale. Restart engine, back to superpeg again. > > > > All the other gauges seem to be acting normally. > > > > Anybody else ever seen anything like this? > > > > Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA > > 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue > > 2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red, the only automatic of the bunch > > 2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl > > 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4, Berry Red > > pethier@comcast.net > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier > > http://www.flickr.com/groups/triumphtransamerica > > http://www.mnautox.com > > http://www.mntriumphs.org2004 Suburban. > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/johnhenard@hotmail.com > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ronnie.day@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Dec 14 15:58:07 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 308CC42713 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 15:58:07 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm4-vm6.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (nm4-vm6.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [216.39.63.152]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E678A40042 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 15:35:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from [216.39.60.166] by nm4.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2013 22:32:00 -0000 Received: from [67.195.23.146] by tm2.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2013 22:32:00 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp118.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2013 22:32:00 -0000 s=s1024; t=1387060320; bh=hpjDNDkxmJyOvNlAsNsWWztyaG+Ay7b/89aAdKyX6Z4=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-Rocket-Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=pxRnL5+L5nj/10CipqmaueL26ezMkkWzG1fLBgfp+k5RUz3WsSJFEJO9YxY9jKj6OxhiN13DNFg/6mx/LBgYFO0eqM6Apnglsf8btd/YGtMciJXP2aTVF2fficmsuQcHf+jpXIy4eELADNZNkmwoGvcM3eR56Dah2MtK9cj4WAA= CpKENt_vumY.Zvgsc5UDHVQMhRDZD995BuZ_vBr19GBgEyCaIvdEJ5Mgq6cL 5BYkJMmY.z7DEkTBuVz3zuVoXEoo1dWwrjCof_dC9DFdAcTgxbMYzgp1ssUz RGIeYoOwoMFU0KobiMaeXoli3aXbd8c5ozIM7mYpDj2gvO9_9EydTTpg6abF 945ERaDZw.1sNHmjgpt3P3WkGFZPERMZGd1S9fXYi.ws9GEjTU4W5lkBDybV sn6o2a8jQXefzbxI2kG7h.tZi73LYiSWJoLuscQK3scZG9OiiRty9GlwioWc ACE7ekR_uaKCGmD8qWdk0uL9Wlx_AryRoKRmW.xqlbHs8RwOFccOfWWAPpCD MdG2ekviZZ8LNNdPdr7e5EZ4WiaDKMmVSD3HPjX_D6JWxC2FlcODYk7Dt7zC gMlxkA7g1zoRSYMN9m_BYY_mAUBn6uEMi3.f1.yHXu_n9dmqERBiSv3vjbA4 vbcgu20Ml2bzP0Cf4x73qtfZxzLl1uhO1H4M4TaDQRkoNYr8SFbohNTP4new X plain [67.195.15.66]) by smtp118.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2013 22:31:59 +0000 UTC Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 17:32:03 -0500 From: john Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 To: Shop Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] New Generac XG8000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I just purchased a new Generac 8000 watt generator with electric start. The generator lives in an unheated shed and as with my old generator, I would remove the battery and leave it on a trickle charger in my basement until needed in an emergency. On this generator, the battery looks to be a real job to replace quickly and has a small female receptacle for a 12 volt transformer(like a big cell phone charger) to keep the battery charged. The manual says not to leave it plugged in for more than 48 hours. Any suggestions for a trickle type charger with electronics to control the charge and that I can leave plugged in throughout the winter? Thanks John Mitchell _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Dec 14 16:24:51 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08FB242F80 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 16:24:51 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm19-vm7.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (nm19-vm7.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [216.39.63.197]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B480D40396 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 16:22:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from [216.39.60.166] by nm19.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2013 23:19:36 -0000 Received: from [67.195.23.146] by tm2.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2013 23:19:36 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp118.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2013 23:19:36 -0000 s=s1024; t=1387063176; bh=VvjUX0fcGMR698Z7Pwe2+5DmgFToEuBwT1pidcuT0Qc=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-Rocket-Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type; b=aQYuHViidaKgPnUSs/SpTT7aHE8w7zmWYybPXdr3WGTIYkMAWziDRXKw1CkwmCAtChEBEtukzaaBOWI1rh8xVl69SZgMkVtyyztOx95dQjkTxLKFBTwjvOyt1/Wnh0ehWpLKSuCxf7h/lLNetfCeF394oVgx1RPnbfnNc652+2c= EboS3.RE1VSNgVrraPjp6K_bglIBShVT5t.Jnm4OfqHpEHzkbD7qd70jyxSn lN6tNcr2UdREQ9ytoRdBWX4LlOUdxGQN5wI_I20HGKgbn6urU4IBuOfb4Rs1 CbZQjUVEcbyaP1wgnVBaGzOj00VD5eiWlvCKpUpmiN57P9qkuCtjFqGGH1qT .AmqV7Drn0VZIx.lV9RZB.XFf7I4_UUzhcz2V.z.fOWgBehlcMDHtKPCot9U 9ySeWPid3ISATlZ7onKZ2tI5H9MPleZs_UvN_2Hf.lxY6j3SZe3exLYcCTrI PPu48CwJ.VOG0xI2ZtiYc6J.Y.JMC.y._58sMS3y2vENl2.DlSW7ELhHCNqY QOG8gJ3xdhVjqvT7MFKZ.RJe4fjf62w1t7ksQuUzru26_WjjnyVA6Xi4Lysy cqaIkkhbR3KJVTYJKQzlteAMEkehY2Ro62B2VcCNoX40vtmvopqrLgaC2wpm zBHxMtvRCZ.PeySs7Ah.URg7CDKAtGFCt7uT7VTEMjzyEWlWDaaL2ktYUFEV WA83aHHoGHTeEL0MF5hcQiVwKP4QRfHFwOPsmUAg3ATPdb3YQis3Fws.rKlx g plain [67.195.15.66]) by smtp118.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2013 23:19:36 +0000 UTC Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 18:19:39 -0500 From: john Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 To: John Innis , Shop Talk References: <52ACDC63.7050308@snet.net> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] New Generac XG8000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I've also used there products. The problem is the battery is buried under the fuel tank and is not accessible. I was hoping to find a battery tender that would just plug into the charging socket. Maybe I can modify one myself. Thanks On 12/14/2013 6:10 PM, John Innis wrote: > I have used DelTran products (Battery Tender). The Junior is a 3/4 > amp charger that can be left attached to a battery full time. I have > used these for several years in an unheated garage and my batteries > have remained in good condition. > > > On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 4:32 PM, john Mitchell > I just purchased a new Generac 8000 watt generator with electric > start. The generator lives in an unheated shed and as with my old > generator, I would remove the battery and leave it on a trickle > charger in my basement until needed in an emergency. On this > generator, the battery looks to be a real job to replace quickly > and has a small female receptacle for a 12 volt transformer(like a > big cell phone charger) to keep the battery charged. The manual > says not to leave it plugged in for more than 48 hours. Any > suggestions for a trickle type charger with electronics to control > the charge and that I can leave plugged in throughout the winter? > Thanks John Mitchell > _______________________________________________ > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis@gmail.com > > > > > -- > ================================= > = Never offend people with style when you = > = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = > ================================= _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Dec 14 17:23:53 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A86B0403DF for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 17:23:53 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm21-vm7.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm21-vm7.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [216.109.115.134]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id CF66840511 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 17:12:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from [66.196.81.155] by nm21.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2013 00:09:12 -0000 Received: from [98.139.221.250] by tm1.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2013 00:09:12 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp120.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2013 00:09:12 -0000 s=s1024; t=1387066152; bh=Ss8D+ScsyTwahvPF/t8TfA8uBbDANkZNkOK3tY17Ha8=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-Rocket-Received:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:Thread-Index:X-MimeOLE; b=FpzJOD6PBohre5vnrtlpMHCrVpJ0CP1Y4IiS1MQkovgZo7ZDyw7OIiRpg5LxLM2xyo4SEnaKihMZViBI22Hewg71Pk3uk5doOwj7XXmNNvVddA1xVLgL8uCGMcAAV/mv+BwWrHcOhxfFqPLVm7a3qcrK0mdaY1PK/iw1a9JoZpg= JMq8_3E.49DGRSa7iC5Wx1HMIezG8hJJmWQtpXMJCLMPl.vot7FBB5bBXw_f mqQPnryQG9t3rarXpJhmAPNyGDvq8Drsv_0y780YPUKz__OFiA7JtV5GWT4V HsK8julYXWUhaWarkklI89y2tAaP6hJAf5wroPtoZ9dprpni.Ry1xw.oapO4 RGH7nWtU0zT6IA4r4CbwYlKybqiTAB.sBS2DNJZRtVn1U7lprvIk5tUlpAFj vXT7uBQqqXp_e3fl7BgbRMYZulhHfQ0qUGj_4RE58SwfcjIhls46sgsVMJbS DGdxwwFWE7HCknbu0J6UXRqXpBWbJODRqDFKos9erQZ8g9Ug.H_.n61nrMqv TRxqvIKlD0d6Ar7ITHG8rszJmXXBGY7ptXHuvqtWdy55Z24ATIwKb2vHJEcA _fHosU_v0v4tLzcTqtUR9Iya.OXiB8bqv7eX9gFehY5kre2aDyMdg2hg5xvD 0cLxwMUhtfXjZ6wnpNirGJ9hRkJVUvQ04YaHnVXPO0Sr7z4Z8OYN9PM68LtA iPJZ40obYknuUgicfgl3DtJR9 [98.139.221.42]) by smtp120.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2013 00:09:12 +0000 UTC From: "Jack Brooks" To: "'Shop Talk'" References: <52ACDC63.7050308@snet.net> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 16:09:09 -0800 Thread-Index: Ac75H/M1ExSNOlptSrGQ12vaxOlBwgACVMXQ Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] New Generac XG8000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net John, I keep my RC planes on trickle chargers during the flying season by having the chargers on a standard home lighting timer. I have them turn on for an hour, once a day. When I bring the planes back, I charge them up completely, then let the trickle charger run for an hour a day to maintain the charge. Something like this would work for your situation too. Jack -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of john Mitchell Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 2:32 PM To: Shop Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] New Generac XG8000 I just purchased a new Generac 8000 watt generator with electric start. The generator lives in an unheated shed and as with my old generator, I would remove the battery and leave it on a trickle charger in my basement until needed in an emergency. On this generator, the battery looks to be a real job to replace quickly and has a small female receptacle for a 12 volt transformer(like a big cell phone charger) to keep the battery charged. The manual says not to leave it plugged in for more than 48 hours. Any suggestions for a trickle type charger with electronics to control the charge and that I can leave plugged in throughout the winter? Thanks John Mitchell _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jibjib@att.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Dec 14 19:37:57 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6407F4273A for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 19:37:57 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from blu0-omc2-s14.blu0.hotmail.com (blu0-omc2-s14.blu0.hotmail.com [65.55.111.89]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D778B4043D for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 19:30:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from BLU177-W41 ([65.55.111.72]) by blu0-omc2-s14.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Sat, 14 Dec 2013 18:27:33 -0800 From: John Henard To: Ronnie Day , "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 21:27:33 -0500 References: <1792144760.534071.1385480177493.JavaMail.root@sz0220a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>, <2074460272.27775.1387000130982.JavaMail.root@sz0220a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>, , FILETIME=[35FBAA90:01CEF93D] Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Oil-pressure gauge goes nuts on Suburban. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Ronny,For the 2004 Yukon it is located on the drivers side, top back of the engine. You have to remove the covers and it is more of a job by feel than sight.Look at these two links and they should helphttp://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/237689/http://www.you tube.com/watch?v=SmAkU80ShXg --John Henard > Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 14:31:22 -0600 > From: ronnie.day@gmail.com > CC: shop-talk@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Oil-pressure gauge goes nuts on Suburban. > > John, > > Where's the sender located on the engine? These LS series are very > different from the older SBCs. > > > On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 1:50 PM, John Henard wrote: > > > Phil,Sounds like my 2004 Yukon Denali. Engine off oil pressure zero, turn > > on > > and it goes full scale and then back to zero when off. I read somewhere > > that > > was an indication of oil pressure sender. Replaced mine and fixed it and > > now > > acting normally.If your suburban is laid out like the Yukon (should be) I > > needed to get the socket at a FLAPS since now of mine would get a good > > bite on > > the sender. $43 for the sender and some bruised knuckles. Suggest laying > > down > > cardboard and maybe a towel over the engine so you can lay on the engine a > > bit > > more comfortably. Be careful with the sender I snapped the top on one and > > had > > to beg for a replacement. Good DIY but will require a few swear words > > > > --John Henard > > > > > > > Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 05:48:50 +0000 > > > From: pethier@comcast.net > > > To: shop-talk@autox.team.net > > > Subject: [Shop-talk] Oil-pressure gauge goes nuts on Suburban. > > > > > > 2004 Chevrolet Suburban. Picked up my truck after it had been sitting > > out > > in the 11-degree-F cold for a while. Started OK. The oil-pressure gauge > > was > > pegged WAY past the end. Stopped the truck after it was warm and went > > into a > > store. Came out and turned on the ignition. Needle went to full scale. > > Started the engine and needle went to full-on pegged again. Stayed that > > way > > until I shut it off in the garage. Needle went to zero. Ignition on, > > back to > > full scale. Restart engine, back to superpeg again. > > > > > > All the other gauges seem to be acting normally. > > > > > > Anybody else ever seen anything like this? > > > > > > Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA > > > 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue > > > 2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red, the only automatic of the bunch > > > 2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl > > > 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4, Berry Red > > > pethier@comcast.net > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier > > > http://www.flickr.com/groups/triumphtransamerica > > > http://www.mnautox.com > > > http://www.mntriumphs.org2004 Suburban. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > > > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/johnhenard@hotmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ronnie.day@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/johnhenard@hotmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Dec 14 19:54:55 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86BB742787 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 19:54:55 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from qmta02.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta02.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.24]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D408C4043D for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 19:44:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from omta09.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.20]) by qmta02.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 1eZm1n0060S2fkCA2ehbCs; Sun, 15 Dec 2013 02:41:35 +0000 Received: from sz0220.ev.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.40.138]) by omta09.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 1eha1n00l2yr1eL8Vehac8; Sun, 15 Dec 2013 02:41:35 +0000 Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2013 02:41:34 +0000 (UTC) From: pethier@comcast.net To: old dirtbeard s=q20121106; t=1387075295; bh=lZA5nQ2PFv54RnqOqWpcDsTS1DhMneT7VYh50tomkEI=; h=Received:Received:Date:From:To:Message-ID:Subject:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=NytAoZXNC7QbSlRctaj1Dy4y5wozGn0wtCW/pOxHebgepwzvdxe+aTkDO9hm5z3O0 J0z0JPjjUBTiLATUmVi+9qDBnshe3kTgdyQCqnMhkmjrJ7+xh7NPPPN+iCMnz68O6p 40IGQ56gZZVRXIovh4me0ZvYc1C7Cx/7cpU3/v/z98RlDMFS1MbBpq3iZs3s5HCc99 noOp8S4vXDWdGaU/+uqWUwb4/NbZKKSXgnY6Hp3jX54T3wOEu6F6buybBF2ecLS2a6 0W1lTjmitsADVub8Uu3xwZ9LGJve346Eww2Lo9UBA+xLYvGkcgYT75TyEkZTWkpIZG zMD3MojcNpR9Q== Cc: shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Oil-pressure gauge goes nuts on Suburban. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Whatever the cause, it healed itself overnight in the cold garage. This morning it acted completely normal. Drove the truck three times today for considerable distances and all the gauges acted as expected. Maybe the brownies came and repaired it. Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue 2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red, the only automatic of the bunch 2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4, Berry Red pethier@comcast.net http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier http://www.flickr.com/groups/triumphtransamerica http://www.mnautox.com http://www.mntriumphs.org ----- Original Message ----- > From: "old dirtbeard" > To: pethier@comcast.net, shop-talk@autox.team.net > Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 9:59:41 AM > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Oil-pressure gauge goes nuts on Suburban. > Hi Phil, > > > Just a guess, but perhaps the viscosity of the oil at 11 above was > thick enough to jam the sender unit wide open and now it is stuck > there. Maybe with heat and cycles it will free up again. Just a > guess... > > > best, > > doug > ________________ > '72 BSA B50SS > '74 Moto Guzzi 850T > > '01 HD XHL 883 > '03 GMC Cargo Van > '07 Aprilia SXV 550 > '13 Aprilia Tuono V4R _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Dec 15 06:49:47 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 499C142F88 for ; Sun, 15 Dec 2013 06:49:47 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from qmta11.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta11.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.27.211]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 822C142F8A for ; Sun, 15 Dec 2013 06:45:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from omta05.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.43]) by qmta11.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 1ph01n0040vp7WLABphgrd; Sun, 15 Dec 2013 13:41:40 +0000 Received: from sz0220.ev.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.40.138]) by omta05.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 1phg1n00F2yr1eL8RphgA4; Sun, 15 Dec 2013 13:41:40 +0000 Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2013 13:41:40 +0000 (UTC) From: pethier@comcast.net To: John Niolon s=q20121106; t=1387114900; bh=v2pYuuAwTclfbbBA0uoLE4vtpJBqeY+VcaTkpd0xj9E=; h=Received:Received:Date:From:To:Message-ID:Subject:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=PmdZvsZFfUklpoO4xvdh0qU5dUwJXNl5cx7gRyJhWIZHnb9TrBLh5O8yN9Pl4sRYS 9QkSSlBGBwoPJVLoNkYylGKOhxWY8ZXNvUz4s/1XyJ6DssVjVxky9CqQV+vwAkG/o4 Aul9oYzMssKYwPz1CIEP1X/F5UJB49bodrOrgWSTqT/TJ+2e/zv+1kyIf/EPWKMlJb HSBuIHCuDYjHnyItgGPWg6ggPVUO8MLU4YYans/eD3+jUVdI7ZUNFORHIZbyjrc0MO S5IfIZah4+0COKIthIB5oytFK56rGDSaSryZRKEoTzpYgEgJ8MhcaEdPEFOTC06sPR T4got11zyx0Ag== Cc: shop-talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Oil-pressure gauge goes nuts on Suburban. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Ah. That must be it. Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue 2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red, the only automatic of the bunch 2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4, Berry Red pethier@comcast.net http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier http://www.flickr.com/groups/triumphtransamerica http://www.mnautox.com http://www.mntriumphs.org ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Niolon" > To: pethier@comcast.net, "shop-talk" > Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 6:43:03 AM > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Oil-pressure gauge goes nuts on Suburban. > NAH.... The brownies only do upholstery repair and cookies.... elves > do shoe > repair, and work for Santa and some do cookies too... for complicated > electronical problems... they are caused by Murphy and usually > repaired by > GM-gnomes. a 'small' group of disgruntled guys that were trained at GM > thru > affirmtive action, but were too short to reach the assembly line and > people > kept stepping on them and putting them in tall empty boxes...so GM cut > them > loose. > > They vowed revenge by fixing mysterious problems and robbing GM of > outrageously high service department charges. You sir, are a lucky man > to > have them on your side... You should leave a couple of packs of beef > jerky > and a beer in the garage to thank them. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "old dirtbeard" > Cc: > Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 8:41 PM > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Oil-pressure gauge goes nuts on Suburban. > > > > Whatever the cause, it healed itself overnight in the cold garage. > > This > > morning it acted completely normal. Drove the truck three times > > today for > > considerable distances and all the gauges acted as expected. > > > > Maybe the brownies came and repaired it. > > > > Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA > > 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue > > 2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red, the only automatic of the bunch > > 2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl > > 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4, Berry Red > > pethier@comcast.net > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier > > http://www.flickr.com/groups/triumphtransamerica > > http://www.mnautox.com > > http://www.mntriumphs.org > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "old dirtbeard" > >> To: pethier@comcast.net, shop-talk@autox.team.net > >> Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 9:59:41 AM > >> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Oil-pressure gauge goes nuts on Suburban. > >> Hi Phil, > >> > >> > >> Just a guess, but perhaps the viscosity of the oil at 11 above was > >> thick enough to jam the sender unit wide open and now it is stuck > >> there. Maybe with heat and cycles it will free up again. Just a > >> guess... > >> > >> > >> best, > >> > >> doug > >> ________________ > >> '72 BSA B50SS > >> '74 Moto Guzzi 850T > >> > >> '01 HD XHL 883 > >> '03 GMC Cargo Van > >> '07 Aprilia SXV 550 > >> '13 Aprilia Tuono V4R > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jniolon@att.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Dec 15 06:51:01 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D78B642FB2 for ; Sun, 15 Dec 2013 06:51:01 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm24-vm2.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (nm24-vm2.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [216.39.63.52]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 2879F4038B for ; Sun, 15 Dec 2013 06:46:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from [216.39.60.171] by nm24.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2013 13:42:49 -0000 Received: from [67.195.22.116] by tm7.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2013 13:42:48 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp111.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Dec 2013 13:42:48 -0000 s=s1024; t=1387114968; bh=FPIhy3EmoytkmH9P+1LSb5dR7Hg8p0cQ4sPKUY2KXWI=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-Rocket-Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=LelsKfRVK58kiKbX+Wo4TWkSUuhqIBBhLHhmAuveokOi6iQ4+vbJG43xN7jfDc/PhxaiFDrzdwcQN4mTyOXNfavxje1m5Bh/196iCNGZCXZyiDddzo7xAMuefXB2n2xRp45T3x/e5Oo/ostPKum7f62p5ShgQmpsdMt0vUV9fEs= 1e9fQtNrBi1knNNI1s9Gyeo.JG9KlhzIECEPaZpdFaXHtP5Vynf2cN3W5XYC A9TGtUTDk8MCQmgj5yfoRoJ4Tnu9SVQDuTKkXLyrSAH_hSlPecHC8zd6C4lo iRxR_GSByk0UMKAXjkZAcuiR2SJLaz3yMS3rUER4Ghx3lC2iOGwU62oQ8ZSa QxUjKCd.Z9UEBQk.iDBnKKPMzfTPek4Mw8MWyp40QsuWoYQ5KzyAc4aQzKG6 o9cEIye1bFp60E0jxQ8arYacaWe95i4TA4QGhnKvEeBTFmCYchL9YydtWBaw K5folVaaWYYJaTgmGn73q90JRoiAF1T10ivNdKZ0Pb.JWjpBBaN3AQeepGBW w4cfv58NB_MyDYnl4sZrfb7_bMm2lutReEFaM2y5C2DLMj0dIlvfcGl4WrSa XGieaclDMni5.I_U9USCDhzkLmpthmHj7GHafN0Of0JMRfOfh8iXCKQttXw9 L6rEZtDZWxH_T2E_QRfkT5sp84WhL95mkDmzCgBE89wcyz2vb_n64ePcvcUQ 9TCqL6IiQS3XWJsHtZJpsOMh0WaVCKzgQ58Mz.cnuLULJlsM6X7A10NMNWWt X plain [67.195.15.66]) by smtp111.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2013 13:42:48 +0000 UTC Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2013 08:42:52 -0500 From: john Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 To: Jack Brooks , 'Shop Talk' References: <52ACDC63.7050308@snet.net> <75A4B914CF274EFBB3C4A1C13392972A@Antec300> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] New Generac XG8000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net That sounds like it would work! Thanks for the idea. John On 12/14/2013 7:09 PM, Jack Brooks wrote: > John, > > I keep my RC planes on trickle chargers during the flying season by having > the chargers on a standard home lighting timer. I have them turn on for an > hour, once a day. When I bring the planes back, I charge them up > completely, then let the trickle charger run for an hour a day to maintain > the charge. Something like this would work for your situation too. > > Jack > > -----Original Message----- > From: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > [mailto:shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of john Mitchell > Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 2:32 PM > To: Shop Talk > Subject: [Shop-talk] New Generac XG8000 > > I just purchased a new Generac 8000 watt generator with electric start. > The generator lives in an unheated shed and as with my old generator, I > would remove the battery and leave it on a trickle charger in my > basement until needed in an emergency. On this generator, the battery > looks to be a real job to replace quickly and has a small female > receptacle for a 12 volt transformer(like a big cell phone charger) to > keep the battery charged. The manual says not to leave it plugged in > for more than 48 hours. Any suggestions for a trickle type charger with > electronics to control the charge and that I can leave plugged in > throughout the winter? Thanks John Mitchell > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jibjib@att.net > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jmitch@snet.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Dec 15 16:16:15 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A26A40406 for ; Sun, 15 Dec 2013 16:16:15 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from qmta14.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta14.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.59.212]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79A6C40400 for ; Sun, 15 Dec 2013 16:15:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from omta06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.51]) by qmta14.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 1zA91n00416LCl05EzChzb; Sun, 15 Dec 2013 23:12:41 +0000 Received: from Dell2010Watson ([24.127.11.141]) by omta06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 1zCh1n00H32bGuo3SzChVM; Sun, 15 Dec 2013 23:12:41 +0000 From: "Mark Watson" To: References: <002001ceef1d$99499730$cbdcc590$@com> Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2013 18:12:44 -0500 s=q20121106; t=1387149161; bh=pq6zH3c7C0k+kS5CKgR4A9GQxuTSI7OvJKJheMpcVzk=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=FhlCRNk6BH2WzcETDF2tz133McmHwrzclkl24oJeaB/5zFcTDWZJp9XDTNnMvDeDc 7VSeoUCF33hxBebdeJdbEe3Th9/2zpRVBmhPS6Sk/ImDUgIqlZtAeJjzf5B7TLrgwn Y52PwBe5QFG0PjUJ79yVhqUjIvEmzIiAvQD+bycpR0Rzl/S5e3PNQ3t7wZWmj6baEo uVjVp6mJuyWY2PiS+PUvhtHGjY0yxRT7f5jdslIgyj2Ofbg6D+lIE2+aEkujeHVKx6 8dNRsSm6NVYiH+YF3PHgxKtccEU9YvcMDKCVs69ohPQ3HVgmrhoTRT0qw2upieSOXW Bp8C16oFTRdsg== Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] chain hoist question (electrically) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Eric, Pat said it best about the single to 3 phase converter. The "tar like" substance - sounds like verrrrry old rubber disintegrating into its original constituents. I've seen the same thing on things I know were rubber in their original form. I'd say live with it because you'd be hard pressed to find new rubber pieces. Enjoy! Mark -----Original Message----- From: Pat Horne Sent: Monday, December 02, 2013 12:15 AM To: eric@megageek.com ; shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] chain hoist question (electrically) Eric, The best and easiest way to connect this up to single phase power is to use a single to 3-phase converter. If you are in need of a hoist, and the price was good enough to spend another $50 on a phase converter, then this is fine. If it is too expensive, sell this one and buy a single phase unit I looked on ebay and found http://www.ebay.com/itm/HD-1-3-3-4-HP-Static-Phase-Converter-Mill-Drill-Saw- USA-MADE-Single-to-three-/261070427968?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc902 9740, which is a solid state phase converter for $46. Have no connection with this company. Try various solvents in moderation to see what attacks the tar. Peace, Pat -----Original Message----- Is there any way to wire this to work on Single Phase, maybe with reduced power? What is this thing worth? Does anyone want/need this? Finally, what could be the tar like substance that is all over that controller? Any ideas where this could have been used? The buttons work, but it just looks scary! 8>) _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/watsonm05@comcast.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Dec 17 17:04:50 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFC6D42F14 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2013 17:04:49 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-oa0-f52.google.com (mail-oa0-f52.google.com [209.85.219.52]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B1864003F for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2013 16:38:42 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-oa0-f52.google.com with SMTP id h16so7306860oag.25 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2013 15:35:15 -0800 (PST) d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=NDS203cvWmNPP+QTZeRQVkpnkaKJkPktTVE3d/mJBx8=; b=NKwwPz0wTfoywZol7GWjmN7R4iQu6EuCKzc/nj3eqGVrARYUSzuDoQFczC7D+nWvPD PwQoiyzVkvk6GWdrWIsf3AOfVvvzvTHKuDS+A8VxfFBsrIY8sRia/1XmDiyUPz0+X3Mt +gLOMP6dwNpqWxcYuWuO+W7XfRuRXYToLPjH0kT9eiwrAaHck2th4PAdEnWXczAXVBt5 T7MG5v6oJ2FqSy3K4KqAO0Zx8PPQcxYUSJVSKrEHPDmhMgSy7HEuGpaA80lrhjp9vCNt Dbg9JbW2MRkpWIsFeJJiic0l2pokwuu1hNlnNa99l5FP7CTOTQC6JyNDMCADXqnc9TzJ 9yAQ== tu13mr2141339obc.58.1387309009842; Tue, 17 Dec 2013 11:36:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.182.134.231 with HTTP; Tue, 17 Dec 2013 11:36:49 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 14:36:49 -0500 From: Doug Braun To: Shop-Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] OBD-II software Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Hello, I have one of those ELM327 OBD-II Bluetooth dongles that I have been using with the "Torque" software on my Android phone. But I recently bought a Windows 8 laptop, and I was wondering: is there any good free software for Windows that works with ELM327 bluetooth dongles? Thanks, Doug _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Dec 17 20:15:10 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 425D842B41 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2013 20:15:10 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm26-vm6.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm26-vm6.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [216.109.115.213]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 8CF7E40043 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2013 19:43:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from [66.196.81.162] by nm26.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Dec 2013 14:24:36 -0000 Received: from [98.138.104.97] by tm8.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Dec 2013 14:24:36 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp117.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Dec 2013 14:24:36 -0000 rMVFhnWlklU18OqhRpvjZBy6VhoupXOiHcSFgkvg3A5RKJwPe2Cj9ol5vVWx tgRNa79YF4_jElWqLxkXHandsBND6xCXjgpZAHXYh.d9c201PRUmO.pacW.j GT9Qt3RT_Y5_w2M.ZyeMY.ORShy5tM7yWqjlq58heV_TM5hACN58EggLfWYg 0XsOaG1cQ2TlpieXMNq.6C6WRmSX6eks_wKwPDajjr6NASDigPfGpXRq3PHs sgO3m5fEovZyUvULRC811lEc09RAeJWBHB4MUcPDlSx5R8WXfX1g_skIZwbU Br5XOf58IcvBIbUMIGYxXJC8BXKnOHhgmK55idb0ica5SkWZom8B2k1TrVXx d.DX40Cd4f5tBsJwIdXSTANwZMKlK1VkOQ62woX.u2Fe8cyK9GIrHI75jUfr ZyffYWnnzaFwMbWo9GQeG9CVw.dMdMJcG0C_Wend0GkfzpABsOxBjgIdW4LY d9COFpcpMNgYuohG3Cwe4OxYK9XKWTMwAH8KpI.2HL3H1v9lMeD6xslvcKSH EPcz5Xy8y25eFT.1EnFhjrBT6TxVdf1AGT.3Q0aKzZUq2hBh1devZw0MZeJx 30ajZoEs.yEJWb1lDgptkrutOZKl02YQMUO6JOd.l2IF7 [98.138.31.74]) by smtp117.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Dec 2013 14:24:35 +0000 UTC From: "Karl Vacek" To: References: <000c01cef5f6$c217e970$4647bc50$@Ameritech.net> <1386903805.88736.YahooMailNeo@web181305.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <52AA8CF1.6010001@gmail.com> <1386943864.84864.YahooMailNeo@web181305.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 08:24:38 -0600 Thread-Index: AQIswTx4MZzT58PzgYG3tcaI5+7b8AIpd8uEAmZP21cCZPbchZllOwcg Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Water heater quality Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Third try at a reply - my replies to the Forum bounce after a day. After a long time getting to the right department at Lochinvar, I got a new water heater under warrantee. Got it home last night and it's not the same model - 3" taller, different spacing on the inlet and outlet. Now I'm beefing up the stair landing above the heater with steel so I can cut out the joists to get an inch of clearance for the B-vent. The new heater has a separate anode, so in a year or two I'll be ordering a magnesium anode from Waterheaterrescue.com. And yes, I always use dielectric unions. At the same time I'm putting in the Watts instant hot water system - it pressurizes the hot slightly and by installing a valve at any desired faucet it keeps the water hot by bypassing the not-so-hot water into the cold side. This will be a boon in the powder room, because that plumbing is on an uninsulated outside wall and we leave the faucets trickling in long subzero spells. Yeah, it'll take longer to get COLD water, but we drink RO water from the kitchen anyway. Besides, toilet flushing will use up the warm water and probably help prevent toilet tank sweating in the summer. Thanks to all for the advice! Karl _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Dec 18 21:40:09 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B7C2403A6 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2013 21:40:01 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ig0-f172.google.com (mail-ig0-f172.google.com [209.85.213.172]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35FB042EED for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2013 19:16:21 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-ig0-f172.google.com with SMTP id hl1so10743578igb.5 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2013 18:15:49 -0800 (PST) s=20120113; h=references:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:cc:from:subject:date:to; bh=ZWzfIRzNEyl2pU4VC1gzRpEce2h2EcCCGJJ8e0OA7Dk=; b=XsF99j3we4yBEB/nlodBtrPsPKHZKsGKR0JYHtJ8GBjQO8BhnyE45P1l4/k3aP1uL7 CXCVBq2M6PHAFCNaXfDB6ysu90iLi8Rl8q4qPm34GjdHJarZlg9lXNSLbI9aWRbvcjhH AVYWW6XTE1WNw0agGqK/6dQNY15we94aMLbQvGy1WTvmDoKVg2baNsAH+XPO/JZ+hnqR 7bCK/ygQTQCJgehFtndo5n3hMY4AXhohQiLt++68SgT3559IS8gVFfTFm2GyLeVUsWkQ FducZEFWO2Bx/bIq2fwV0X0zBRAKsiR2xn/hh3+U0ZiNGAKJ78Fct6iYFuTiFaKG9aA7 oyMA== kd7mr226965igb.4.1387419349673; Wed, 18 Dec 2013 18:15:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.11.120] (50-77-134-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. [50.77.134.45]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ck2sm5224106igb.0.2013.12.18.18.15.47 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 18 Dec 2013 18:15:47 -0800 (PST) References: <000c01cef5f6$c217e970$4647bc50$@Ameritech.net> <1386903805.88736.YahooMailNeo@web181305.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <52AA8CF1.6010001@gmail.com> <1386943864.84864.YahooMailNeo@web181305.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <006c01cefb33$b8080400$28180c00$@Ameritech.net> From: David Scheidt Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 20:15:46 -0600 To: Karl Vacek Cc: "" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Water heater quality Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Dec 17, 2013, at 8:24, "Karl Vacek" wrote: > clearance for the B-vent. > > The new heater has a separate anode, so in a year or two I'll be ordering a > magnesium anode from Waterheaterrescue.com. And yes, I _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Dec 19 08:53:23 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B21E640066 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2013 08:51:47 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm5-vm8.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (nm5-vm8.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [216.39.63.213]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 2BDCB42B12 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2013 04:08:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from [216.39.60.173] by nm5.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Dec 2013 11:08:12 -0000 Received: from [67.195.22.118] by tm9.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Dec 2013 11:08:12 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp113.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Dec 2013 11:08:12 -0000 s=s1024; t=1387451292; bh=p16Etrr5HGgegxz/l+GmycOOOA1rl25ohs32vLPsclE=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-Rocket-Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=DO8aywh1zeVxR02AHQ0AY9hijkmtDupHlpJnhTLhFYzbsqQbjFnPBYY8rjYU3LWknsNlE3IerF3jRH7GPGKjT7LwvpUVmB0+BC/gM8ttkHVIxTngaQIRgVk+p2gF4twvf3tKES/gV9e5jEJzl6MNHg6/tqIzykNPMm0Gl03tZfg= pi1LAY9t72N9Lh8ryeY7t7QipFK9B8m.LvsXZGXy_ANkmxMbRvj3SdM6Rz26 fPFLdWnBBIVszdBI79MEsDCiWZnCyuJALm0cL52mcn9C1SlGZypUpXahRiWP j4y1Jc_LqhdD9Y1kd2k97dEIb5rDQLRoN3zfpI34OkF7D5i.2nLLH3AZEYYk 6tfB_QVaIUml6qt_qX3SwwP_Msxkas6KXf6xcoZ_NtloxYsbGzmR2GmCdbOP kRB520tHBnOZdtO5j0VOb._YecRALr5y0GJXZ2.CGnhK2lmkjHK2GR7yJJRs GcJLc_PAVIR2rsh4Uvn6TQy_8VJJAByM.oLyudi4dd_QeiMk0F2GR3YAYh9c AzGMGIpf1o_UltAUrxlmQ2MFqtu0GmJIULJdv6YJfQXQoKY.R6JTf4r61_s. gKneSsToHgJByVECR_f3E.4YSCVakzUrrKfPL9jViDdim99fMfLA77Mn_d0Q SNeif1Thc1PFGINHsFkDTI5AoMuSqah81bXTZeQaeUPE9BF0NwTklb1C.MJR q plain [67.195.15.66]) by smtp113.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Dec 2013 03:08:12 -0800 PST Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 06:08:18 -0500 From: john Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 To: Shop Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] Exhaust pipe for generator Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I made an exhaust pipe for my generator out of stainless flex pipe and plan to run it out of my shed under a door to eliminate as much noise as possible when running it in an emergency. My question is what can I wrap the pipe with where it may touch wood to prevent combustion? Would header wrap work? Thanks, John Mitchell _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Dec 19 14:20:18 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C14F4044C for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2013 14:20:18 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-vb0-f54.google.com (mail-vb0-f54.google.com [209.85.212.54]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62BF740424 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2013 13:55:03 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-vb0-f54.google.com with SMTP id g10so928962vbg.41 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2013 12:54:28 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=s4ldXPJuNMJTqnL3+SSDV5E9B4mRKKQ1zOsjVVtkQ+k=; b=UoiK13os4b/gEKfi0x1o+dCie3jq+u7r8VfqQIbwuShKrFQI93vRYjZa85QHynPJ80 NHU9P7mC2yZwXiqXibz9w/LWw2i/lQKy/dtjRe9rS+vXLBfaazA98lf0tgxSsTkhY9gU il52J24zuIFgqkqR8n1yTFunD91eajdH5VlY98uplm6j5KhClZ9psI74sBD0b/v9/fIk kQhhFEQJKn3sIcLZuPacwhd6VMNCcAbia/SgZOeNpPQaCxM0G+AhREXQ8lm6ihTjdjMX HZ4/9UID9nEmnGhaxLe4MpHDlK9M8ri5n23GIrRMl1QYcV+1nzPEyGe74yorHBaze5hq TktA== fq17mr2439118vec.14.1387484771568; Thu, 19 Dec 2013 12:26:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.58.1.74 with HTTP; Thu, 19 Dec 2013 12:26:11 -0800 (PST) References: <52B2D3A2.2040004@snet.net> Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 15:26:11 -0500 From: Jeff Scarbrough To: john Mitchell Cc: Shop Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Exhaust pipe for generator Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net My thought is that an air gap would work best - think double- or triple-wall pipe like that used with wood stoves. You want to keep your distance between heat and wood. you'd feel bad if hte shed burnt down in the middle of an emergency/ Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 6:08 AM, john Mitchell wrote: > I made an exhaust pipe for my generator out of stainless flex pipe and plan > to run it out of my shed under a door to eliminate as much noise as possible > when running it in an emergency. My question is what can I wrap the pipe > with where it may touch wood to prevent combustion? Would header wrap work? > Thanks, John Mitchell > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Dec 20 08:00:37 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 662FD42F09 for ; Fri, 20 Dec 2013 08:00:37 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from qmta09.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta09.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.96]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF9B542982 for ; Fri, 20 Dec 2013 07:50:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from omta14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.60]) by qmta09.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 3q1p1n0081HpZEsA9qnRfD; Fri, 20 Dec 2013 14:47:25 +0000 Received: from [192.168.82.100] ([24.2.215.4]) by omta14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 3qnP1n00H06FvTL8aqnQ3f; Fri, 20 Dec 2013 14:47:25 +0000 Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 09:47:15 -0500 From: "Peter J. Thomas" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 To: john Mitchell , Shop Talk References: <52B2D3A2.2040004@snet.net> s=q20121106; t=1387550845; bh=ROEGww1b0E2eNlTDE1hV1yu7d+EsnwUV5bYSBjkgTIw=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:Subject: Content-Type; b=Y/Tj3F6WGJlzaBWgBAKL0T1/y+gY4Ec0pwtyoZPsww5n8eF0rSf0T8+d+g0o5OAul zjmITl2AM1otEHif91SftUlkAAg4Tk3yr2FQnD2AHLFK4mc66XQSI2AOdCIV+UvIMH 8tNPE2tYjsOCq/31ZU5w1wNFL2NpAJZaPyMLZ6fpKOTUMwE43CWbPe08sJazl7QOU8 YoHouRwrSooppZToUO3OihNdrMrFFEWQ+1u7BLzTmLyIj99M+dFWtD2DShaQVhdtSE TQch7BPSRvFsseHzKVvFr6HS62g2BH55zWNBGSbvmQXuEUk3FRW2UohHkivpRx3vL+ X08s6tyfxAXHQ== Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Exhaust pipe for generator Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On 12/19/2013 6:08 AM, john Mitchell wrote: > I made an exhaust pipe for my generator out of stainless flex pipe and > plan to run it out of my shed under a door to eliminate as much noise > as possible when running it in an emergency. My question is what can > I wrap the pipe with where it may touch wood to prevent combustion? > Would header wrap work? Thanks, John Mitchell Most of the noise comes from the exhaust so a muffler would be more effective than putting it in the shed. Simply venting with a pipe isn't going to reduce the noise much. > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pj_thomas@comcast.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Dec 22 11:17:06 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FDE5403F8 for ; Sun, 22 Dec 2013 11:17:06 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from p3plsmtpa11-07.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (p3plsmtpa11-07.prod.phx3.secureserver.net [68.178.252.108]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A01B2403DD for ; Sun, 22 Dec 2013 11:16:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from StevePC ([24.113.13.208]) by p3plsmtpa11-07.prod.phx3.secureserver.net with id 4iFY1n0084VKuxU01iFZrh; Sun, 22 Dec 2013 11:15:34 -0700 From: "Steve Hammatt, Mount Vernon WA USA" To: "Shop Talk" , Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 10:15:27 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Seeking Expedition suspension advice Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Ibm forwarding this to the Shop Talk list in hope that the general knowledge base on the Shop Talk group can come up with some answers. Thanks guys, be sure to copy Grant Young with your replies so that he can get to work on this near holiday weekend! Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA From: Grant Young Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 9:34 AM To: virtualvairs@corvair.org Subject: Seeking Expedition suspension advice My daughter's 2010 Expedition rear auto-level suspension has stopped working and is in the lowered position. The owner's manual does not have much information and does not show the fuse or relay or the location of the solenoids, pump, etc. Just hoping there is someone on our list who has solved such a problem, or knows where to start looking. They planned to leave on a trip pulling a trailer tomorrow and there is probably very little chance the Chrysler dealer who sold it and carries the warranty will be able to fix it in time. It was once stuck in the lifted position after that dealer rotated the tires without disabling the system (which can be done with dashboard controls) and it had to be taken back for "repair" about a month ago. It has worked okay until yesterday. Thanks much, Grant _______________________________________________ This message was sent by the VirtualVairs mailing list, all copyrights are the property of the writer, please attribute properly. For help, mailto:vv-help@corvair.org This list sponsored by the Corvair Society of America, http://www.corvair.org/ Post messages to: VirtualVairs@corvair.org Change your options: http://www.vv.corvair.org/mailman/options/virtualvairs _______________________________________________ ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6941 - Release Date: 12/22/13 _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Dec 24 15:11:40 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99DF043006 for ; Tue, 24 Dec 2013 15:11:40 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm20-vm7.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm20-vm7.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [216.109.115.118]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 0E51842EEF for ; Tue, 24 Dec 2013 15:11:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from [66.196.81.166] by nm20.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Dec 2013 22:10:30 -0000 Received: from [98.139.221.158] by tm12.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Dec 2013 22:10:30 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp118.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Dec 2013 22:10:30 -0000 s=s1024; t=1387923030; bh=OySabOUbVlZg9JvcLRoVXbKau4jMnaatBHbxUjYOZL0=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-Rocket-Received:Message-ID:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-Antivirus:X-Antivirus-Status; b=Gf0Qop9qdCaBajyOBfgVtv6ola9OJz56kCI2Wz5Zi8mXDJARk4CtOlHqYDnLue29m9p2Ep2ywB6WTqhLoFC+fzD1IXb820qHgX/frevqxFGueQ68/m8CI0pumPIgo28KCwq3gxckeoXqCu9I8Alw7rrJ0QOVJo7q/QgRtrLexlk= eQb_zd_jw11puwyeCX5YaLT3lWJSkmlfLpC7ZvIkXEiWyMKMx5COjUMno3SQ g32lkkDlUgrfquQhuSk8DwL61x0vBD.g0tkpp7gTG2QvEUwfv4gRDwl_c0B. PJDhBDgEVhVsKb1JriAU650niRLn5E41G0JjZ76cxBbZmKoOhvvfpN1H9JJq tPuw.Akpw3JkKeQtySOnzIHXkUa9Bw8asXdBM429rkG3oC0toEhtX97kukhX d8GcLKHuYX8_Q_xnVkXvc0lIazs6u5ZsRbfWUM9QnFvIxYVuhStRQB6VUDP. hPoGC9itn9Yl0xrv7PVPmGcMjIxtVgjGs0x_BClk8hso8bn0QCZ75E_0hcQU hiaeQnqxuHmWImmZIb9JOq3K7O8IG4kqfPVlpH7Pr01dZysEhv5UqDWRQx2R hc5mktqoGs9Xtx820J0VRuLJavzST_jmoZgKCQY91wJF49ewyONlLuIXGsVb c4GOXn8Qv1l4t5rGOMZmdOS4uHEMs5LTFq0slpV2yE9vgQqp.XPN8CenwuAc lyOmke2WV.y53UKTPcvogk5qWhhWjFnI4x2eRd5.J70ImgHSNsVpTViet.IC SYD_MsA34JRiQcVLCqyEg2RSHUw-- plain [98.139.221.42]) by smtp118.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Dec 2013 22:10:30 +0000 UTC From: "John Niolon" To: "shop-talk" Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 16:11:00 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] led flashlight troubleshooting Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net recently bought 4 of these little led flashlights and was well pleased... http://www.amazon.com/BBQbuy-300lm-Flas ... flashlight I found them again from another vendor (both in china) and ordered more to give to friends at Christmas... well the last 4 came and not a one of them worked... vendor gave a refund and I started tinkering... I have juice to the led assembly in the business end of the light...but no light... anyone know of a way to test led assemblies... it's only about 1/2" in diameter and totally sealed (it seems) any suggestions ??? thanks john Many people are alive only because it's illegal to shoot them. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Dec 24 15:22:57 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C85B4301A for ; Tue, 24 Dec 2013 15:22:57 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from qmta08.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta08.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.80]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90C4B42EED for ; Tue, 24 Dec 2013 15:22:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from omta17.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.73]) by qmta08.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 5aM31n0021afHeLA8aMkyX; Tue, 24 Dec 2013 22:21:44 +0000 Received: from sz0220.ev.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.40.138]) by omta17.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 5aMj1n00R2yr1eL8daMj64; Tue, 24 Dec 2013 22:21:43 +0000 Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 22:21:43 +0000 (UTC) From: pethier@comcast.net To: John Niolon (Win)/6.0.13_GA_2944) s=q20121106; t=1387923704; bh=9/kuKjBQx35U7gCuasljndBtWsi9Pcm0uc4UA2Aqd+4=; h=Received:Received:Date:From:To:Message-ID:Subject:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=fP6Ptu8ZVWvx72S0EXSKTqPGMYhBy1uqEgstN5cN4M6pNAk2B6xGzYmnMZzaxPSoy y8zYtHeHH9JOHHfvEKw18nFd0CrfoTNc0cO9UY8McjNW0zPInnBO1uaH3Ebv0S0hzZ Xw+mVKRG9Pn1WArzlS1TH1cXKqil4v/e1D16wNEmQoRRy5ydFgip4lN/px7UqeUvf0 rEBOGS0pRjQT6WMHIXnsEfnhAPd8GQPlBBofeRULgpKfPlA+f9inX4QcB1L0Fne493 UJJD6p06vun7cGYozzv24G2miWqdlDYLHnPxtOa3NMLix2N/zhhu8DHWZjhJb5514B AxmClDZb6vCxA== Cc: shop-talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] led flashlight troubleshooting Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net have you tired both polarities? Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue 2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red, the only automatic of the bunch 2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4, Berry Red pethier@comcast.net http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier http://www.flickr.com/groups/triumphtransamerica http://www.mnautox.com http://www.mntriumphs.org ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Niolon" > To: "shop-talk" > Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 4:11:00 PM > Subject: [Shop-talk] led flashlight troubleshooting > recently bought 4 of these little led flashlights and was well > pleased... > > http://www.amazon.com/BBQbuy-300lm-Flas ... flashlight > > I found them again from another vendor (both in china) and ordered > more to > give to friends at Christmas... well the last 4 came and not a one of > them > worked... vendor gave a refund and I started tinkering... I have juice > to the > led assembly in the business end of the light...but no light... anyone > know of > a way to test led assemblies... it's only about 1/2" in diameter and > totally > sealed (it seems) any suggestions ??? > > thanks > john > > > Many people are alive only because it's illegal to shoot them. > > > > > --- > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus > protection is active. > http://www.avast.com > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pethier@comcast.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Dec 24 15:28:52 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AA5B43003 for ; Tue, 24 Dec 2013 15:28:52 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm20.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm20.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [98.139.212.179]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 0CC6842EED for ; Tue, 24 Dec 2013 15:28:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from [98.139.215.140] by nm20.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Dec 2013 22:27:48 -0000 Received: from [98.139.212.220] by tm11.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Dec 2013 22:27:47 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1029.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Dec 2013 22:27:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 9939 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Dec 2013 22:27:47 -0000 s=s1024; t=1387924067; bh=bzXPJuAPdFEVWA5Kc98j+E8WoS41j2aDztbI71zIj2Q=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=EwqSTHGYGDI/sZ+gT1LlIVX/mDxUxZz84Dfej5jvbRhU1zuc4BOsk/NhiUnR3d/bvjV7FIKTo+th5xix1yNr29B/bykbKWI+3DK9fX+SxBDMoVMoQpx2aP5WhEh1RYq9BtvvYG3qZPx7QNBSGskrXTKVq1JKmNDDzpqx/Hjiz1k= s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=AoMtTtPN2MsT6ji2OYE9NPMUFQcrW1l+xhbjO2NNc78j/yZ3Q+oX/Jgfjp4XOW6ze1csjbdBvSVqqwYKgfWvb/eidI8iwVsUDnbJe4RqKOiPVssWgbb+ixtUth8PFP1Gy+Y0Q4bxqeBbkAjSI+yPj4UHBqH3F5IDnBf6zhG2PQQ=; RYqSaiDFz.9tRO8x3lTYCb7VECFYgFiFjIiDoJHh1c2uD9s8FnxDIUPZ8Cv0 fnweBju3kM.P8j7287EqyrHM5Lc.VKRrzspkVmEwI.5a0vQ4sz__WAqINW7S Zk4QNxeL19hBzCe9zKR4DRbGK7Ki18KrqL_xljQuVYPZSwptyGiNH.aFUErU 9JGljD5OinTuVT2tf9nN1GlNb_yVMKUyxmp9Cgdh0zLm2xSpUbik_nOq9AbV QRJdH1fGdX1R8GPLaTlZMe7SnnCD9nMDhpFpIAI9QS08XPVfWc_SmQpgCPrm 23oxfgTpDJDW4LNCVPweGi3gaFS42poK4O03zv6JBqbSKpQOAcrDntf2B7Ti u_ddoZJXnlKj8c7IwrmVDldzcgEVXO.LD0QJY79DUhg.gz93Uv5XRe2aid.P HxbYyBFP4rVlOdqArSKzY.bK2W2NVeiF2wrBAWsuNS6fesKiCLG_nnRnIl9K slHae1pEdBi7etMDXnPmVJLP1KxTB4ufiqTyoT4b0YD.nAAbBTwKfk3mTb2V cazzQYoapfunx2sWr3bs9P0bBgm8Qyiuj166hzoXrDdsW_iVFe28ivkdIZGR PZteKXzGjoyVoZDyd3Zx6hMXiS_qfLuxn Received: from [173.252.176.138] by web140002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 24 Dec 2013 14:27:47 PST SSBoYXZlIG9uZSwgYWxzbyBmcm9tIENoaW5hLiBPbiBtaW5lLCB3aGljaCB1c2VzIHRocmVlIGJhdHRlcmllcywgaXQgaGFzIHRvIGRvIHdpdGggdGhlIGNoZWFwIG1ldGFsLiBTb21ldGltZXMgaXQgaXMgdGhlIGNvbnRhY3RzIGF0IHRoZSBib3R0b20gb2YgdGhlIExFRCBhc3NlbWJseSBvciB0aGUgYmFzZSB0aGF0IHRoZSBhc3NlbWJseSBjb250YWN0cywgc29tZXRpbWVzLCBpdCBpcyBhdCB0aGUgc3ByaW5nIGVuZC4gwqBBdCB0aGUgc3ByaW5nIGVuZCwgdGhlIHN0b3BwZXIvaW5zdWxhdG9yLCB3aGF0ZXYBMAEBAQE- References: <03BDFD91AA5A48CDB2F2AB299B932B3D@john5043a2d406> Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 14:27:47 -0800 (PST) From: Battmain To: shoptalk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] led flashlight troubleshooting Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I have one, also from China. On mine, which uses three batteries, it has to do with the cheap metal. Sometimes it is the contacts at the bottom of the LED assembly or the base that the assembly contacts, sometimes, it is at the spring end. At the spring end, the stopper/insulator, whatever you want to call it, moves, and that either causes a short or no contact at that end. Taking it apart and reassembling will work until the next time is moves from the spring pressure. Regards, Brian >________________________________ > From: John Niolon >To: shop-talk >Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 5:11 PM >Subject: [Shop-talk] led flashlight troubleshooting > > >recently bought 4 of these little led flashlights and was well pleased... > >http://www.amazon.com/BBQbuy-300lm-Flas ... flashlight > >I found them again from another vendor (both in china) and ordered more to >give to friends at Christmas... well the last 4 came and not a one of them >worked... vendor gave a refund and I started tinkering... I have juice to the >led assembly in the business end of the light...but no light... anyone know of >a way to test led assemblies... it's only about 1/2" in diameter and totally >sealed (it seems) any suggestions ??? > >thanks >john > >(snip) _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Dec 24 15:46:36 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C80A543021 for ; Tue, 24 Dec 2013 15:46:36 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from dogbert2.mail.megageek.com (nj-69-34-94-16.sta.embarqhsd.net [69.34.94.16]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C659242EF8 for ; Tue, 24 Dec 2013 15:46:30 -0700 (MST) To: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net From: eric@megageek.com Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 17:23:19 -0500 7.0.1|January 17, 2006) at 12/24/2013 17:23:16, Serialize complete at 12/24/2013 17:23:16 Subject: [Shop-talk] Rotary air compressor design question Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net OK, here is the setup. A buddy of mine needs an air compressor that delivers over 60CFM at 50psi (he closes sprinklers) He bought a rotary compressor that delivers 60cfm @ 110 PSI. There will be no tank in the setup (it's going to be trailer mounted.) It's powered by a gas engine. So, a typical regulator would set down the psi and the compressor will turn 'off'. But this unit is designed to run full bore with no limiter or idle control. So, how can he step down the PSI while maintaining the CFMs, when he can't stop the compressor? (and there is no tank to act as a reservoir?) I'm guess it's going to need some sort of TPI bypass value or something? Any ideas? To my fellow Christians, Merry Christmas. To everyone else, have a wonderful and joyous Holiday Season! Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Dec 25 07:05:11 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2E2E42EED for ; Wed, 25 Dec 2013 07:05:11 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm7-vm8.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm7-vm8.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [216.109.114.167]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B02ED40537 for ; Wed, 25 Dec 2013 07:05:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from [66.196.81.156] by nm7.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Dec 2013 14:04:01 -0000 Received: from [98.139.221.159] by tm2.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Dec 2013 14:04:01 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp119.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Dec 2013 14:04:01 -0000 s=s1024; t=1387980241; bh=WvtLzmL32ePFTJppK2RfFts1/aXASzCgF0xTmnXCrBQ=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-Rocket-Received:Message-ID:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-Antivirus:X-Antivirus-Status; b=1BaW+sADYipxHQtrxbD1Q1RR17eWX2HgYyNI8V37qjcau6VJMCGpkbsvOK49wa4yChnk2+rvD8t+wNZo6QfV/rIxyS94qwCP1lgc188AYujajtg7nVmLnhXMXD4/aboorKdhYIX+EOiMMCfAaPrEX+HkGYn1qpGpdO+wU4YNOCw= ir17HdLwUFyC4DwgBBPYddmrVNw6x4EBlXPM0VTlM7zIag_dl7WX7UOOU_l6 xaZDNnlsJ4qxPH2.0pk_GnstcWqf2qi38CkKg4A0427AR4jxKd65IM3nx4nc Udwm04p5wzaHrYZ9MzLNCFfbmuOUSDTSh3bkj52EThN7WKP7.HJRT14LKHVL 3z58zv9SiD_UCD9L_wfT_D1jTobcwpm0Ii_oDwiY0.aCThmoeVl0ZxJgl6lk cq1Qons54cQrtmR9QROnynTTmYxHR0I0XuanZsX5RpyZX.JgQ5mH0Z32wVqw MC8ehbYtlfhSaKo4uDmvMowxXm26qmf6FOBAgo1rjzh5XxkPcNbazVmZcfYU uFDwy90FiZp6JNLLekkpm3zAknPId7_rQOrpNby3D5nRhLioeuXkWsdVVqXa bUVAwrqZk2IqisWtBIpy.Ct6qqwpAt.5ySO5sKT0c0.eflry3diQhmoS9OYe JRHdhbKIBvJlDlsuzExz70IsaJysGjoh4XDWyJ6IcrlUXnUY37.54lchKvme UNRw.498B1gIwQ9CVJkTHnBmvAgWCcEeewW13VNcWy2VuP7dXG7HFwe1Sr8v XR2.DUXCPp95PVJLLqi.9LnzlgC2fW.tFYeDd6OF9mlSQFhftmpmO7IpPnXc e9hKo3vTDfWsrV79toj7xar1ofxK9NO9EuO_UkRWpgh5gkWYeBQ38_N4xryC 6cxQFcsP58rlu1THrCu_nt9LazPnlUQR7pHdiFkag4Znp59eb8QBknKNjghA - plain [98.139.221.42]) by smtp119.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Dec 2013 14:04:01 +0000 UTC From: "John Niolon" To: "shop-talk" Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 08:04:40 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] troubleshooting LED flashlight again Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I tried flipping battery...still dark... checking voltage one lead on the positive battery post and the other on the case where the led screws in... got 1.5vdc there... so the problem must be in the led assembly... too small to canabalize... it's only about 1/2" in diameter and 1/4" high... it's just odd that all 4 would fail... the seller offered no info except a refund. BTW here's a better link below if anyone is interested... the others that I bought previously are good lites with a long runtime for a single AA. http://www.amazon.com/BBQbuy-300lm-Flashlight-Torch-Adjustable/dp/B006E0QAFY/ ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1347327761&sr=8-1&keywords=cree+flashlighthttp://www.a mazon.com/BBQbuy-300lm-Flashlight-Torch-Adjustable/dp/B006E0QAFY/ref=sr_1_1?i e=UTF8&qid=1347327761&sr=8-1&keywords=cree+flashlight and Merry Christmas to all you shop-talk guys... you've saved my bacon a few times this year... thanks john Many people are alive only because it's illegal to shoot them. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Dec 25 07:41:17 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 630A442F9E for ; Wed, 25 Dec 2013 07:41:17 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from g2host.com (mailfront4.g2host.com [208.42.184.242]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEECD40537 for ; Wed, 25 Dec 2013 07:41:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from [76.164.52.117] (account arvidj@visi.com HELO HP62011) by mailfront4.g2host.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.11) with ESMTPA id 136694262; Wed, 25 Dec 2013 08:40:10 -0600 From: "Arvid Jedlicka" To: "John Niolon" , "shop-talk" References: <03BDFD91AA5A48CDB2F2AB299B932B3D@john5043a2d406> Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 08:40:09 -0600 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] led flashlight troubleshooting Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I do not have that specific flashlight but have experienced intermittent and DOA with other small imported flashlights. In all of my cases it was related to the way the PCB that the LED mounts to returns current to the battery. The PCB is a circular affair which has a pad in the center of it that presses against the center battery\battery holder post. This provides one side of the circuit. The outer diameter of the circular PCB also has pads on one side of it. Think single sided PCB, not two sided or with plating on the edges of the PCB, but only on one normal flat side of the PCB. These pads on the flat part are suppose to contact a "ledge" in the the metal body of the flashlight. This ledge provides the return circuit and also prevents the PCB from falling into the body of the flashlight. The current flow is "battery -> pad in the center of the PCB -> LED and related current regulating circuits -> pads on the flat outer diameter of the PCB -> ledge on flashlight body -> flashlight body -> switch in the cap on the end of the flashlight body -> spring in the switch\cap -> other end of the battery. In all cases my failures were related to the PCB being a very poor press fit into the flashlight body and the outer diameter pads not contacting the ledge. If I would press on the lens to push the PCB into the body they would light up. Note that "press ..." did not actually cause the lens to move any discernable amount. All is seemed to do was press the outer diameter contacts down hard enough to actually press against the ledge and work. The pressing incantation seemed to permanently fix some of them but for others it was 'only worked while pressed'. Needless to say those that would only work if I had my finger on the top of the lens were classified as "did not seem to fit the spirit of useful flashlight design" and were trashed. Yours may have much better construction techniques. Arvid _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Dec 25 08:27:45 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEC0942F0F for ; Wed, 25 Dec 2013 08:27:45 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm34-vm8.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm34-vm8.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [72.30.239.6]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id AAAAE403F3 for ; Wed, 25 Dec 2013 08:27:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from [98.139.212.151] by nm34.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Dec 2013 15:26:38 -0000 Received: from [98.139.212.218] by tm8.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Dec 2013 15:26:38 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1027.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Dec 2013 15:26:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 52600 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Dec 2013 15:26:38 -0000 s=s1024; t=1387985198; bh=LFY0tmNFR3LbBi/pcwRWGsQXhl2PAT8eLP5P4wCsQ1Q=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=I76D70+EnJOGBMy/Q3iiuFIsDAT3mhMfvJqS0IDbb/mGIXSgtJYS6esWTugfNiBhpCJ1Fzbxji6Ed+ZlxSujRfCyEcnS3/FkaJp0rSwsVGrxyz+pTgMFxhX2Qp1u9mRClORn0b8ueLf2E15q2KjXA1RZIkWdFkaMG8TGBCZsp40= s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=eU0VqSEoREXh9TXUNBxaXV1ZcsuCJzSkekulq0S117yQcCglxHmff2ZRvrmgSaOIb3V+44sIQvjWPHuBUaXIXzrSz3vjpTYdHH+AaKnuskuuBpebmb2v9Ith5TehhveQ3aMrF3KSycggxwjTF1AE+dRBq0EJKx19QwUykiJ9hP0=; lMUocyObfQ8pTCfpZZULq0NhNXcX60WfT8TP69ulK8Rcc733h5G1grIwmm9n .gApjw7rtsr9o18.qQCiJbIogz8H3Z6V9Lk909PeVvCHk4UVB4ju3urq3Ys6 85Qfc19nW6.q3k6yPIvuFkBVYpKW4n2tfxWiqhyGlesCm9aw4wz3xTkJLKKT f9ae1U6qbwBa0cRVKLtzjwDrHnCJ5fRG16Ml7iIVcvwwqEob4OnNPUx92KR_ 9VOnh7FE4nvSJYpChwPx96Mb1zuwXIRPljQQCHnKqKT1Y1hrD5uxIHXAiRFG eTjKp6xARlX39yl4rUZkf.blUrsKcp7Ov9rHHVzPAB.DMbCRH8zPqg4g3wPD 5UyZI2LV2dyMGylrhduXDbw24bWm1109ytUD1WvWIgt4WBA7AP7B4N5LhTB8 mo0aO7_dgnyA7S8XoHn11doBAhDi3y0bLMv2sEqNqy50I6q3r_scmehg3tQp yXMamHpzi2jKSdDyeaBkGAowosa52vcLTy1y4FoN1WFAfmM0G0b8KlNOmsAv VMOZeM13395DanMIrYgkGZh0jWPTqMJjl25zVZLKXP2ZXkEiyIcYn4x_B_0Q CcvAm0KaN6.JX7RgqyAh6HXBel7D0hIttxHm0iy1n_NU62LXEZ9ECBXfaGMA oKQuuAhKaq.0w7XK4reLEgWjR4LyIuwtSMJSOkdRCc73Safk22we72B7MV3K uL040y7oA8QIPXZ2rq0A6mOWUNPQIQFguNWwetsJx5u3pGzN6QcPRkqslLH. 1DKfECgzNyHowlVbQV1pAmVb7VYWfAg-- Received: from [173.252.176.138] by web140002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 25 Dec 2013 07:26:38 PST Q2hlY2sgdGhlIGNvbnRpbnVpdHkgb2YgdGhlIGxlZCBhc3NlbWJseS4gSWYgeW91IGhhdmUgYW5vdGhlciBzaW1pbGFyIHVuaXQsIHRha2UgdGhlIGxlZCBhc3NlbWJseSBhbmQgc3dhcCB0aGVtIG91dC4gSWYgeW91IGhhdmUgYWxsaWdhdG9yIGNsaXAgbGVhZHMgeW91IGNhbiBhbHNvIHVzZSB0aGUgYmF0dGVyeSBhbmQgc2VlIGlmIHRoZSBsZWRzIHdpbGwgbGlnaHQgdXAgd2hlbiB5b3UgdG91Y2ggdGhlIGxlYWRzIHRvIHRoZSBjb250YWN0cy4gSSd2ZSBhbHNvIHVzZWQgZm9pbCB0byBoZWxwIHRoZSBjaGUBMAEBAQE- References: <9FBBB393EA9A40238171BEBC89BD3D19@john5043a2d406> Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 07:26:38 -0800 (PST) From: Battmain To: shoptalk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] troubleshooting LED flashlight again Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Check the continuity of the led assembly. If you have another similar unit, take the led assembly and swap them out. If you have alligator clip leads you can also use the battery and see if the leds will light up when you touch the leads to the contacts. I've also used foil to help the cheap contacts make a good connection when reassembling. For the price of that one and what Amazon charges for returns, it may be more cost effective to just trash it. Regards, Brian >________________________________ > From: John Niolon >To: shop-talk >Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2013 9:04 AM >Subject: [Shop-talk] troubleshooting LED flashlight again > > >I tried flipping battery...still dark... checking voltage one lead on the >positive battery post and the other on the case where the led screws in... got >1.5vdc there... so the problem must be in the led assembly... too small to >canabalize... it's only about 1/2" in diameter and 1/4" high... it's just odd >that all 4 would fail... the seller offered no info except a refund. BTW >here's a better link below if anyone is interested... the others that I >bought previously are good lites with a long runtime for a single AA. > > >http://www.amazon.com/BBQbuy-300lm-Flashlight-Torch-Adjustable/dp/B006E0QAFY/ >ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1347327761&sr=8-1&keywords=cree+flashlighthttp://www.a >mazon.com/BBQbuy-300lm-Flashlight-Torch-Adjustable/dp/B006E0QAFY/ref=sr_1_1?i >e=UTF8&qid=1347327761&sr=8-1&keywords=cree+flashlight _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Dec 25 09:51:51 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6227842F0F for ; Wed, 25 Dec 2013 09:51:51 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.120]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE84842982 for ; Wed, 25 Dec 2013 09:50:08 -0700 (MST) a=iHrfZUqj8pI4/cobIDz1/A==:17 a=SD2Uja9gV1sA:10 a=05ChyHeVI94A:10 a=ExDAyBU5CxkA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=KGjhK52YXX0A:10 a=CgWHTRLf9CoA:10 a=JQstNkV_43lgDq9f7MsA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=iHrfZUqj8pI4/cobIDz1/A==:117 Received: from [76.168.149.236] ([76.168.149.236:55005] helo=rypc) by cdptpa-oedge03.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 64/71-21884-38C0BB25; Wed, 25 Dec 2013 16:49:08 +0000 From: "Randall" To: "'shop-talk'" Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 08:49:08 -0800 Thread-Index: Ac8BejjxGx4C7+RoS76eQVuJ0WT8lAAFVS7g Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] troubleshooting LED flashlight again Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > the others that I > bought previously are good lites with a long runtime for a single AA. Like so many other things these days, quality control is non-existent. If a production problem arises, they may have made millions of units before discovering it. No telling when the problem arose, or how far down the channel the defective units have gone. Recalling all of the potentially defective units is a huge expense. Since the vast majority of customers will not pursue satisfaction from a defective product, it winds up being cheaper to just accept returns cheerfully and keep shipping potentially defective product. I went through something similar with some LED "head" lights (to be worn on the forehead). They work really well when they work. Bought a 3-pack of a new model at Home Depot and one of them was dead right out of the package. Took it back, they gave me another package, no comment at all. Two of those died within a week. Took it back, got another 3 pack. When two of those died within a few weeks, I went back and was informed they don't carry them any more. No refund. I probably could have made a fuss, but it was less than $5 and just not worth the effort. BTW, Horrible Freight was giving away lights similar to yours, and so far all of them (that I got) are still working fine. Still purely luck of the draw with them, but the odds seem to be improving. Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Dec 25 10:10:03 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2ED3042AB9 for ; Wed, 25 Dec 2013 10:10:03 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm1-vm3.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm1-vm3.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [216.109.114.74]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 1072440557 for ; Wed, 25 Dec 2013 10:09:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from [66.196.81.163] by nm1.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Dec 2013 17:08:56 -0000 Received: from [98.139.244.52] by tm9.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Dec 2013 17:08:56 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp114.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Dec 2013 17:08:56 -0000 s=s1024; t=1387991336; bh=4+nS1Th6v4qqqZRBwjInGRefwd3VxJxK9lmBKyDVWVw=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-Rocket-Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-Antivirus:X-Antivirus-Status; b=lhxKA5MsVk8oXh5FYw75iLQY7coqFhnwn4ORXsLz7qykhlaAh1YpxELYogkTuc7poXGLrAWySupN4GK4OhgqcB/MeQgyIJkueiQz7YiQtLZophiDqu71Q+FjEnB3Ab+dYAlj+d466YJ0g1jm2+9cjSdO9WuXGVKJusNHD0Y9kPQ= x2RIwMGibWth4C8C36L6hDh.Ae2PAENmzwhYGLJX3nfheCpNoeTKOa0bvU3C 3zLnuCeSS.hyj1l3gDWHKjjBOvfjBSKUSXEpdx1UlrkggxJQGAb2UEfnOvtP DndoFMYMIOx9cjTGn.761ZDbYuXJe.H.tSqz74QbZGlkkwnRY_GeZQ1kyAcR GCpGleFegrTclbqhMb1O66lnuTSuTulwjIFL2e6eJhlXUXE2VJVupAbivipI TBQL_Ge8O9zcb1E8bMRlo8IwaIkBdK2yWxL0eYddmRCnTwa0qBcd.SMUYU1g GBj.feHGcY_ZfZ8Gfct40geTMSXpTvEH0NI8ywDafCd.2d5wMn5_lNMD7AYb SiwRCaOL1XI2eKMXuqn7YgK_7K.zxCTSoecZKnk4ShtmFmCBVOKIvPB4oyyy Dg2X5PQaiyur7urLp0xsJ.vdrgf2rzUKAUW6l3Bp9eDxELY9gtsecVXKR.7Z 7MHS0UI7vUbK6I3mG_GHOjMivryP1Cp4Pg_ICjSiYxnzQ60o3Jymh0hJpqQ6 h3sOMFctqvkSOOyUByKQtjIrpHY9oQQA3l5K.V7zg9TEROO._5RKN1bCQ31P ElpOZT14U20CG3N4J_XAPfPqxpPahUQ-- plain [98.139.221.42]) by smtp114.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Dec 2013 09:08:56 -0800 PST From: "John Niolon" To: "Randall" , "shop-talk" References: <64.71.21884.38C0BB25@cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com> Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 11:09:51 -0600 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] troubleshooting LED flashlight again Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Like so many other things these days, quality control is non-existent. Randall... sadly what you say is getting truer and truer... although in the past two weeks I've had three experiences with excellent customer service...from people who actually spoke the same language I speak.. One was from U-verse (go figure)... tech went well out of his way, including a return phone call to check up later) to fix a wireless printer problem on an HP printer... wouldn't get that from HP directly !! Another was with Woodland Power Products, the makers of Cyclone Rake lawn vacuums... Needed replacement impeller and housing for a 16 year old unit... they had the part, shipped it two day and it was COVERED UNDER WARRANTY !!!!! on a 16 year old unit !!! My next child will be named Cyclone. third was from e-replacementparts.com where a customer service guy actually went to the warehouse shelves to put his hand on parts... and when he didn't have the needed part did the research to find it and get it to me... It has restored my faith (to some degree) in American service... almost makes me forget all the others I've cussed out !!! yall have a Merry Christmas now, ya hear ???\ john --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Dec 25 10:19:28 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 127D642F43 for ; Wed, 25 Dec 2013 10:19:28 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from qmta03.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta03.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.32]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62748403E9 for ; Wed, 25 Dec 2013 10:19:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from omta14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.60]) by qmta03.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 5sot1n00C1HpZEsA3tJMH1; Wed, 25 Dec 2013 17:18:21 +0000 Received: from [192.168.82.100] ([24.2.215.4]) by omta14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 5tJK1n00P06FvTL8atJL72; Wed, 25 Dec 2013 17:18:21 +0000 Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 12:18:03 -0500 From: "Peter J. Thomas" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 To: John Niolon , shop-talk References: <9FBBB393EA9A40238171BEBC89BD3D19@john5043a2d406> s=q20121106; t=1387991901; bh=dxCYHkWNxGEg+uyc3U9+eOPwm3E/A5ctEmVn28t+YA0=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:Subject: Content-Type; b=g2165eZ/3QVSXLaR9Evvwu0D2aIQUuSLElkHal924bZ+btixueyXzJydh8IMIz/3T u9BfehfEfPfr0dHO8NcGWAF8f312JPBPIo+CPM1WyypSRpuIWp4DDeJqLtB/mwJopc CQMIYu4tFynk9xjiB2aCZUQxihEk13EYcsx3bXGCzmqwP64waaEycKGufCpfaY7HHB kAz5ArElfrHttud32R1FcGDW9uTqJH0JwCx7xCz+3YQ5MhJ2ebpJDFYavt3VkXIJs8 X94cuYk1A7TtFGAifirufB1UIyvXja2lZTfBU4UtueUrmXDmy/XAner0Q/fY9KebEv n1LnX8RpRDAVQ== Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] troubleshooting LED flashlight again Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On 12/25/2013 9:04 AM, John Niolon wrote: > I tried flipping battery...still dark... checking voltage one lead on the > positive battery post and the other on the case where the led screws in... got > 1.5vdc there... so the problem must be in the led assembly... too small to > canabalize... it's only about 1/2" in diameter and 1/4" high... it's just odd > that all 4 would fail... the seller offered no info except a refund. BTW > here's a better link below if anyone is interested... the others that I > bought previously are good lites with a long runtime for a single AA. LEDs have a specific forward voltage and it won't light unless the voltage is maintained. Battery voltage can be different under load. 7 watts is a lot of power to run on AA and the voltage may drop well below the forward voltage with a cheap battery. Standard "Heavy Duty" batteries often supplied with lights do not produce a consistent voltage over its life. The voltage drops over time. As soon as the voltage drops below the forward voltage the LED will not light. Alkaline batteries will produce a more consistent voltage over the usable life then drop all at once at the end. You might try a new, fresh alkaline or lithium battery. > > > http://www.amazon.com/BBQbuy-300lm-Flashlight-Torch-Adjustable/dp/B006E0QAFY/ > ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1347327761&sr=8-1&keywords=cree+flashlighthttp://www.a > mazon.com/BBQbuy-300lm-Flashlight-Torch-Adjustable/dp/B006E0QAFY/ref=sr_1_1?i > e=UTF8&qid=1347327761&sr=8-1&keywords=cree+flashlight > > and Merry Christmas to all you shop-talk guys... you've saved my bacon a few > times this year... thanks > > john > > > Many people are alive only because it's illegal to shoot them. > > > > > --- > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus > protection is active. > http://www.avast.com > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pj_thomas@comcast.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Dec 25 11:31:06 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C733942EEA for ; Wed, 25 Dec 2013 11:31:06 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from haybaler.sackheads.org (haybaler.sackheads.org [140.186.190.103]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8FB942982 for ; Wed, 25 Dec 2013 11:30:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost.sackheads.org [127.0.0.1]) by haybaler.sackheads.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3FD6285A0 for ; Wed, 25 Dec 2013 13:29:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from haybaler.sackheads.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (haybaler.sackheads.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qdR90GPuEGpj for ; Wed, 25 Dec 2013 13:29:57 -0500 (EST) Received: by haybaler.sackheads.org (Postfix, from userid 1004) id B98D828597; Wed, 25 Dec 2013 13:29:57 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 13:29:57 -0500 From: Jimmie Mayfield To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <03BDFD91AA5A48CDB2F2AB299B932B3D@john5043a2d406> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.16 (2007-06-09) Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] led flashlight troubleshooting Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Tue, Dec 24, 2013 at 04:11:00PM -0600, John Niolon wrote: > recently bought 4 of these little led flashlights and was well pleased... > > http://www.amazon.com/BBQbuy-300lm-Flas ... flashlight > For some reason my email client munched on the URL so I couldn't look at the lights in question but the first thing to check (after polarity, etc) is that the various pieces that screw together are making good electrical contact since most flashlight designs use the body as one of the conductors. Unscrew everything, and rub the ends back and forth a few times on some 320 grit sandpaper then use some steel wool to lightly scuff up the threads. That'll give you good electrical contact when everything is screwed back together. Another thing to check is that the leads to the LED weren't severed when the reflector was installed at the factory. This happened with a couple flashlights I bought off ebay. It's a simple fix if you have a soldering iron and some ~18-20ga wire. -- Jimmie Mayfield http://www.sackheads.org/jimmie email: jimmie+shoptalk@sackheads.org My mail provider does not welcome UCE -- http://www.sackheads.org/uce _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Dec 25 13:27:50 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFAA043012 for ; Wed, 25 Dec 2013 13:27:50 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from filter01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net (filter01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net [66.133.183.226]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1745D4003A for ; Wed, 25 Dec 2013 13:22:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by filter01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6244104537; Wed, 25 Dec 2013 19:03:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from relay03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net ([66.133.182.166]) by localhost (filter01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net [66.133.183.226]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id OMww5xjpZV80; Wed, 25 Dec 2013 19:03:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (50-47-77-232.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net [50.47.77.232]) by relay03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 8EC2B23B08; Wed, 25 Dec 2013 19:03:27 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 11:03:30 -0800 From: Dave C User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 To: John Niolon , shop-talk References: <03BDFD91AA5A48CDB2F2AB299B932B3D@john5043a2d406> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] led flashlight troubleshooting Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I guess I have been lucky so far; I purchased seven of these a couple of months ago over two different orders; no real problems yet. The first batch had a very tight lens focusing ring; on the second batch the ring was loose. Otherwise they work fine. I put some silicone grease on the threads and put one in each vehicle. Great little lights for three or four bucks, if they work. On 12/24/2013 2:11 PM, John Niolon wrote: > recently bought 4 of these little led flashlights and was well pleased... > > http://www.amazon.com/BBQbuy-300lm-Flas ... flashlight --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Dec 25 15:04:05 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 867EB42F13 for ; Wed, 25 Dec 2013 15:04:05 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-yh0-f42.google.com (mail-yh0-f42.google.com [209.85.213.42]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D34C42EF9 for ; Wed, 25 Dec 2013 15:03:57 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-yh0-f42.google.com with SMTP id z6so1684765yhz.29 for ; Wed, 25 Dec 2013 14:02:56 -0800 (PST) s=20120113; h=references:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:cc:from:subject:date:to; bh=Qe/tbxMVFhobsAEXr+WWCIVZVEw368uTGbnSzvOe1Ms=; b=fFm9KIk2yXapaAYuWCYROewVRORTU5hnPHuhhPvlznDSDf7Bj8+8m9leZ+hSsmOula vGxeY6XxhXaSAwVKEVsg3xeibnVXpG+yGON6QOof8qQMhVgYGCWDdafKWGc20xmYVSLk gp59JiHAXFtd48UFhOcuIsQbFzXNQo57mNtxaQ5pYfHOo4MJ7kOHomG0Sl9Vx0BXzlCp p73A0XZEhPoTws1hAkR4PxOb3p1iLSK2d3HKktH8LJcgXCNZ9Nv7yFIePBowSQdnVlgX vsZK5dZsn8vZQEFda+o3Lk0+yNZHa4+aSGn7yX2ICKru/mLZVXrATa+SRA+mIuM/1J2h RKLA== k44mr2399071yhl.102.1388008975886; Wed, 25 Dec 2013 14:02:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.66] (99-135-136-216.lightspeed.evtnil.sbcglobal.net. [99.135.136.216]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id w45sm38474775yhk.4.2013.12.25.14.02.53 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 25 Dec 2013 14:02:53 -0800 (PST) References: <64.71.21884.38C0BB25@cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com> From: David Scheidt Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 16:02:52 -0600 To: Randall Cc: shop-talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] troubleshooting LED flashlight again Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Dec 25, 2013, at 10:49, "Randall" wrote: >> the others that I >> bought previously are good lites with a long runtime for a single AA. > > Like so many other things these days, quality control is non-existent. Many cheap vendors in china are selling qc rejects. The original buyer rejects the lot, but the factory sells them to someone else. The second buyer might, or might not, do any thing about identifying the defective pieces, and repair or discard them. Get stuff from a good seller, and you get a good deal; get a bad one, you get crap. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Dec 27 18:07:31 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B3FB403EE for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2013 18:07:31 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from blu0-omc2-s33.blu0.hotmail.com (blu0-omc2-s33.blu0.hotmail.com [65.55.111.108]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2ED8D4041E for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2013 18:02:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from BLU0-SMTP97 ([65.55.111.73]) by blu0-omc2-s33.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Fri, 27 Dec 2013 16:04:17 -0800 Received: from [192.168.1.119] ([173.3.245.180]) by BLU0-SMTP97.phx.gbl over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Fri, 27 Dec 2013 16:04:16 -0800 From: James Stone Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 19:04:13 -0500 To: Shop Talk FILETIME=[592BCC20:01CF0360] Subject: [Shop-talk] Standby Generators Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I would like to set up a relatively inexpensive standby generator for my vacation home. The house uses propane for heat, hot water and cooking, so the logical thing to do would be to get a propane powered generator or convert one to run on propane. I really dont need much power; more than anything, I want to keep the house from freezing if we lose power while we are away, so Id be happy if all it powered was the furnace, But, all I have found are pretty substantial units that cost close to $2,000, which is more than I want to spend for something like this. Does anyone know if it is possible to convert a smaller generator to become a standby unit? Are there any other options I should consider? Thanks. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Dec 27 18:18:39 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70A2B403A7 for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2013 18:18:39 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.120]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FC29403C6 for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2013 18:17:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([10.127.143.52]) by cdptpa-qmta02.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20131226235959631.UYMJ8979@cdptpa-qmta02.mail.rr.com> for ; Thu, 26 Dec 2013 23:59:59 +0000 a=iHrfZUqj8pI4/cobIDz1/A==:17 a=n50MZR3C-mUA:10 a=05ChyHeVI94A:10 a=ExDAyBU5CxkA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=KGjhK52YXX0A:10 a=EM0nWR_JGHUA:10 a=dq3ztww_1iTF2TiTRmoA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=02UNa6jPTMkA:10 a=yK2KKPDCFYoA:10 a=iHrfZUqj8pI4/cobIDz1/A==:117 Received: from [76.168.149.236] ([76.168.149.236:55001] helo=rypc) by cdptpa-oedge02.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id E7/95-21976-682CCB25; Thu, 26 Dec 2013 23:57:59 +0000 From: "Randall" To: , Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2013 15:57:57 -0800 Thread-Index: Ac8A+eSm1aqR/RZoTzySJgx+xsA1hABm9Niw Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Rotary air compressor design question Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > I'm guess it's going to need some sort of TPI bypass value or > something? Yup, need a pressure relief valve that will flow 60 cfm and can be set to 50 psi. It must already have a PRV, perhaps it can be adjusted to 50 psi (maybe by trimming turns out of the spring). Might be worth looking into some way of slowing down the engine as well; modify the governor or whatnot. That relief valve is going to be noisy. Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Dec 27 18:27:43 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF74E403F3 for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2013 18:27:43 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.120]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A00FE403CF for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2013 18:27:36 -0700 (MST) a=iHrfZUqj8pI4/cobIDz1/A==:17 a=05ChyHeVI94A:10 a=ExDAyBU5CxkA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=KGjhK52YXX0A:10 a=GtbsUNUBe2MA:10 a=WeBmPGxzAAAA:8 a=FDZW-6ssjuY2vzk7IPkA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=iHrfZUqj8pI4/cobIDz1/A==:117 Received: from [76.168.149.236] ([76.168.149.236:55003] helo=rypc) by cdptpa-oedge02.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id E4/F6-21976-0C82EB25; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 01:26:24 +0000 From: "Randall" To: "'James Stone'" , "'Shop Talk'" Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 17:26:24 -0800 Thread-Index: Ac8DaQns1/NKOQGKRFesnowqrWiMwQAARmVA Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Standby Generators Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > Are there any other options I > should consider? What about installing a heat source that doesn't require electricity? Like maybe a convection wall furnace, with millivolt pilot light system; or one of these http://www.woodstove.com/fireside-franklin Probably not enough for comfort heating for the whole house, but maybe enough to keep it above freezing inside. And you could add a manual generator for when you are home. Turning a standard manual generator into an automatic backup generator sounds like quite a project. Logic to start the engine, electrically operated transfer switch and so on. And if it's not big enough to carry the entire house, you'll have to run new circuits to the "essential" items, so the non-essential items can stay on the utility side of the switch. Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Dec 27 19:57:06 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CB8D42F1E for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2013 19:57:06 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from hapkido.dreamhost.com (hapkido.dreamhost.com [66.33.216.122]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52D95403DD for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2013 19:57:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from homiemail-a59.g.dreamhost.com (caibbdcaaaaf.dreamhost.com [208.113.200.5]) by hapkido.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FEB524E0 for ; Thu, 26 Dec 2013 06:53:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from homiemail-a59.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a59.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F2B456406D for ; Thu, 26 Dec 2013 06:53:16 -0800 (PST) :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:subject:date:message-id :to:mime-version; s=groupwbench.org; bh=T7L82sCI0JuvqWW3RPQYmF4M Me4=; b=Q84azCwUIwV6chkLuMFJjf6ajiRm3qsoYjOUWVzjbQSYfaz3Br7VutSu +ggesZqyE7DFJrTQHlXKfcQ8sJAdP+CtMdjFqpIPLU2fh6n1ZBFOFOnZzx/8h9su pf5BtcjxJy8DTgZz/Ko7DS5rLu3f1aLTCnvgYC7uRW8/qLBfrBE= Received: from [192.168.1.2] (pool-108-49-151-170.bstnma.fios.verizon.net [108.49.151.170]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jamesf@groupwbench.org) by homiemail-a59.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7133556405C for ; Thu, 26 Dec 2013 06:53:16 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Franklin Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2013 09:53:14 -0500 To: shop-talk List Subject: [Shop-talk] Tapping off a crimp connector? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I'm building a wiring harness for dual horns on a motorcycle. Instead of 2 leads coming off the relay, I'd like to have one lead to one horn, then tap off that for the second horn. I can't find, with my limited wiring vocabulary, a female disconnect that has 2 crimps. Do they exist, or should I just go up one size so that I can crimp (and solder) 2 wires in one crimp, or? thanks, _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Dec 27 20:11:14 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E3B342F3F for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2013 20:11:14 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail963c35.nsolutionszone.com (mail963c35.nsolutionszone.com [209.235.152.153]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB93F403DD for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2013 20:11:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from EricJRussellPC (99-194-27-8.dyn.centurytel.net [99.194.27.8]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail963c35.nsolutionszone.com (8.13.6/8.13.1) with ESMTP id rBS39rp5001088; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 03:09:55 GMT From: "Eric J Russell" To: "Jim Franklin" , "shop-talk List" References: <24D1CA1C-D1D2-42E2-AFF9-9609A2EC21C9@groupwbench.org> Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 22:09:34 -0500 a=enNQ1KVKsPkA:10 a=P2oOn6vrs4wA:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=S2wpYzp2RsyRkoRNwqcm1Q==:17 a=C3T0tyzcAAAA:8 a=8GN4XRofAAAA:8 a=tgZQmrZVVE-KmCiERuYA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=FibliMNvKBIA:10 a=S2wpYzp2RsyRkoRNwqcm1Q==:117 reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Tapping off a crimp connector? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I'm not sure exactly what you are seeking. Do you need to be able to connect/disconnect this or is a permanent connection OK? If permanent then solder/heat shrink is a good choice. Anyway, I like to use Posi-Lock connectors whenever space is not at a premium (they are a little bigger than the typical crimp connectors). They also have a Posi-Tap connector to tap a wire into an existing wire. Way better than the hated 'suitcase' connectors. Posi-Locks connections can be easily made then opened for situations where occasional removal is needed. They also have water-proof covers. I used these to re-wire a car trailer and had no electrical issues for years thereafter (I sold the trailer). http://www.posi-lock.com/ Eric Russell Mebane, NC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Franklin" > I can't find, with my limited wiring vocabulary, a female disconnect that > has > 2 crimps. Do they exist, or should I just go up one size so that I can > crimp > (and solder) 2 wires in one crimp, or? _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Dec 27 20:49:20 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFAEB403EA for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2013 20:49:20 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.64]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F04BE403D0 for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2013 20:46:11 -0700 (MST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=GkFT6+1YrGfTAryIxQJdqzIyi3sy+qYQvn7zmw1MAqjUWDjasTwENOTpX6RXpADb; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [172.13.241.15] (helo=[192.168.1.3]) by elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Vwkpe-0007ih-Oa; Fri, 27 Dec 2013 22:44:58 -0500 Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 19:44:27 -0800 From: Brian Kemp User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 To: Jim Franklin , shop-talk List References: <24D1CA1C-D1D2-42E2-AFF9-9609A2EC21C9@groupwbench.org> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Tapping off a crimp connector? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Jim - You may be looking for a "piggy back spade connector". Try that in your favorite search engine. See http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/CTI0/85412/N0840.oap for some examples that turn a single spade connector into two. Brian On 12/26/2013 6:53 AM, Jim Franklin wrote: > I'm building a wiring harness for dual horns on a motorcycle. Instead of 2 > leads coming off the relay, I'd like to have one lead to one horn, then tap > off that for the second horn. > > I can't find, with my limited wiring vocabulary, a female disconnect that has > 2 crimps. Do they exist, or should I just go up one size so that I can crimp > (and solder) 2 wires in one crimp, or? > > thanks, > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Dec 27 21:04:31 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41E60403DD for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2013 21:04:31 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail.avvanta.com (smtp61.avvanta.com [206.124.128.61]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE1964006D for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2013 21:00:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.avvanta.com (localhost.scooter.p.blarg.net [127.0.0.1]) by mail.avvanta.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C567276C58 for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2013 19:59:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from AMDHexaCore.racertodd.com (50-46-114-197.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net [50.46.114.197]) by mail.avvanta.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12279276C41 for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2013 19:59:44 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 19:49:39 -0800 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net From: Todd Walke localhost.scooter.p.blarg.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Tapping off a crimp connector? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I can think of three options. One is the "piggyback" crimp connector. It's a female spade connector with a male tab added. Example from RadShack: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12529249 They also carry a set of adapters that will do the job: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103503 Either solution does take up a bit of room, so you'll want to verify that the additional wires or adapter don't hit other tabs on the relay. Another solution is to put two wires in one terminal. This only works if you are putting two smaller wires in one larger terminal. You can take two 14ga or 16ga wires and put them into one 10ga connector, for example. That solution doesn't take up as much room. And you have to be careful that both wires are inserted far enough into the terminal that both get crimped tight. Todd Seattle,WA '86 GTI, Red of course. (exciting racey car) 276,000 miles '01 Golf TDI, silver. (new work car) 434,000 miles '87 Golf, Polar Silver. (retired work car) 654,000 miles <- Gone to a new home :( http://www.pureluckdesign.com <-Ferrari & VW stuff _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Dec 27 21:52:37 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B0C540416 for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2013 21:52:37 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-pb0-f47.google.com (mail-pb0-f47.google.com [209.85.160.47]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05DBE403D0 for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2013 21:52:30 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-pb0-f47.google.com with SMTP id um1so9807677pbc.34 for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2013 20:51:18 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=8pLhlGjo4BwKhNvIItFow5PFN+UICKjpEnRFwMzgteo=; b=uJ+RKgpEKOz47j+oFiQO/72gUX4zpQWYpksa0MaX2EfcvGY6CbmhqYF2b9lTiEUdc3 Xmumv6a82yn+Bi1cuGQxpiImb0zv/S+Yjf5kQv4X3RRDZjWWYr9daBQNV8Hvg4CgGdjH 6dbmrMVbT38hJgGTlPOJMm0eP6fQ+qFMQrjBMWg0rB2hrhXrAN0q3t0ww2tpMObWNqfa BYIyTDLdseNfPt48AX0xn1nzvTxqE9UF9+MY4O5DXJkMOfp0lhacT3b+hamZXRznpz0Y 9n8lV89GAzB7AIOkgZaVT+XhN4fLfM3xiqay5eKgDE6CWo0rR54f3f6rG3FSboaBXjZc AnUA== qx4mr37779959pab.141.1388206278100; Fri, 27 Dec 2013 20:51:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.70.18.97 with HTTP; Fri, 27 Dec 2013 20:51:18 -0800 (PST) References: <24D1CA1C-D1D2-42E2-AFF9-9609A2EC21C9@groupwbench.org> <5.1.0.14.2.20131227194138.0076e378@mail.avvanta.com> Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 22:51:18 -0600 From: David Scheidt To: Todd Walke Cc: shop-talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Tapping off a crimp connector? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 9:49 PM, Todd Walke wrote: > I can think of three options. > > One is the "piggyback" crimp connector. It's a female spade connector > with a male tab added. > Example from RadShack: > http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12529249 > > They also carry a set of adapters that will do the job: > http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103503 > > Either solution does take up a bit of room, so you'll want to verify that > the additional wires or adapter don't hit other tabs on the relay. > Another solution, when space is tight, is to use a single wire at the relay, but split it a little ways away. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Dec 27 22:28:34 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95E6B403F3 for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2013 22:28:34 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cartman.xxiii.com (lan23.xxiii.com [24.246.172.99]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B742F40396 for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2013 22:28:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (host-173-246-211-60.morrisbb.com [173.246.211.60] (may be forged)) by cartman.xxiii.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id rBS5RENj096811; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 00:27:14 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wc5813@gmail.com) Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 00:27:09 -0500 From: w User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0 To: James Stone , Shop Talk List References: Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Standby Generators Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On 12/27/2013 7:04 PM, James Stone wrote: > I would like to set up a relatively inexpensive standby generator for my > vacation home. The house uses propane for heat, hot water and cooking, so the > logical thing to do would be to get a propane powered generator or convert one Just had a 20 KW Generac propane installed last month at a relative's home, impetus being a terminally ill resident with need of power for life support equipment in a long term outage. Very nice, apparently high quality unit with a 1L V-twin engine and fancy electronics. Supposed to be able to hold up a whole 200 amp service panel. But it was $8,100 installed. I found the unit online for $4500 if you're hard core DIY (oh, wait, that's why we're here!) but was beyond me and a difficult install in this location and not an unreasonable installation charge and margin on it. (see: http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com ) Seeing it, I'm not sure you could go a whole lot cheaper. They make smaller ones and have the option to have some kinda switch to drop individual high-load non-essential circuits like the AC. But they weren't all that much cheaper. Little ones might work for emergencies where you can manually intervene, but for a totally unattended application I'm thinking you have to pony up for something more. -w _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Dec 28 06:01:09 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47864403A5 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 06:01:09 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qe0-f48.google.com (mail-qe0-f48.google.com [209.85.128.48]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C54F1400A5 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 06:00:59 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-qe0-f48.google.com with SMTP id gc15so10029320qeb.35 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 04:59:45 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=Djutnn7ZIH/PTpYXJyXPE+5j5hVX1/E6nEOU3Hqhmes=; b=soF0h6bgSeORkXn121tW0qcEfRtT9D5QXL9bGuKMq85rHmLI5KhV7t8Nc9sxHyKxem T7JzNSfKSPk32fqtU8lHqqkX4L1bNQw5Xia+6AAY60vehAIxuRNER13Ch9OIrQGfxkqO oJbaZtIFiWEo8HBNHzxb/JW60GM6WsfYsyRePiyRoG1x9jwY9rsFzxgjt3TlKaF1S/tC 8Y0+lXFRHy9BqeZi2++jvwlSUuTXAih4OeR0yB8FS0Z44JSIEuFbf3RoEnhCxXT+0zMu dpWBrffT5KvybpLCMvEi9Ly6AaBUbjs66Jwwb6FJ9lVjbaWGfFlNkBPDKPv1NV8HqhW9 3cJQ== y16mr90849722qef.20.1388235584978; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 04:59:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.96.165.136 with HTTP; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 04:59:44 -0800 (PST) References: Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 06:59:44 -0600 From: John Innis To: James Stone Cc: Shop Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Standby Generators Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Everything you ever wanted to know about propane conversion: http://www.propane-generators.com On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 6:04 PM, James Stone wrote: > I would like to set up a relatively inexpensive standby generator for my > vacation home. The house uses propane for heat, hot water and cooking, so > the > logical thing to do would be to get a propane powered generator or convert > one > to run on propane. I really don t need much power; more than anything, I > want > to keep the house from freezing if we lose power while we are away, so I d > be > happy if all it powered was the furnace, But, all I have found are pretty > substantial units that cost close to $2,000, which is more than I want to > spend for something like this. Does anyone know if it is possible to > convert > a smaller generator to become a standby unit? Are there any other options > I > should consider? > > Thanks. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis@gmail.com > > -- ================================= = Never offend people with style when you = = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = ================================= _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Dec 28 07:35:56 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01A5E403EA for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 07:35:56 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from hapkido.dreamhost.com (hapkido.dreamhost.com [66.33.216.122]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43E00400A5 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 07:35:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from homiemail-a78.g.dreamhost.com (caibbdcaaaaf.dreamhost.com [208.113.200.5]) by hapkido.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9161497D0 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 06:34:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from homiemail-a78.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a78.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A0CF20004743; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 06:34:32 -0800 (PST) :mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; s= groupwbench.org; bh=QoLBn6tflidXlup9TWEDr59BU+I=; b=bhIdxL9hWQqT mnT2VUB92MGJohhhkCOPXO+yzS9x3ai+gLw66T3tbQBf/J2ITCHMiX5ipw5WJf1A 299URS5vFXzt+AFKtczoBZ86gnzc9sILd7sbm0gLnACuaD8Xopack9cZJ4nzYZkn po1srxQrgZMwVLYY96gQoHZxvS3NoyU= Received: from [192.168.1.2] (pool-108-49-151-170.bstnma.fios.verizon.net [108.49.151.170]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jamesf@groupwbench.org) by homiemail-a78.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D042B20004740; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 06:34:31 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Franklin Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 09:34:30 -0500 References: <5.1.0.14.2.20131227194138.0076e378@mail.avvanta.com> To: Todd Walke Cc: shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Tapping off a crimp connector? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Dec 27, 2013, at 10:49 PM, Todd Walke wrote: > Another solution is to put two wires in one terminal. This is specifically what I was trying to ask - if there was a special connector that would accept and crimp two wires independently. Sounds like no and that the above is the way to go. The piggy-back piece would functionally work but I'd like to keep non-soldered connections to a minimum since these will be exposed to front wheel spray. Thanks all. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Dec 28 08:32:28 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6634040401 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 08:32:28 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from blu0-omc2-s14.blu0.hotmail.com (blu0-omc2-s14.blu0.hotmail.com [65.55.111.89]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD588400A5 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 08:32:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from BLU0-SMTP191 ([65.55.111.73]) by blu0-omc2-s14.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Sat, 28 Dec 2013 07:31:08 -0800 Received: from [192.168.1.119] ([173.3.245.180]) by BLU0-SMTP191.phx.gbl over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Sat, 28 Dec 2013 07:31:06 -0800 From: James Stone Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 10:31:04 -0500 References: To: Shop Talk FILETIME=[D314BBB0:01CF03E1] Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Standby Generators Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thanks guys. I will try to answer all of the questions. The house is on eastern Long Island. While that isnt a deep freeze area, it certainly gets cold enough to freeze pipes. And, with electricity powered by the infamous LIPA, being without power after a big snow storm is a definite possibility. The house is a small cottage: 780 sq feet, two bedrooms, one bathroom. Full basemen, full attic. Minimal 1950s insulation in the walls (about 1 thick), better in the attic roof. Draining the house would be pretty easy and that is an option. However, my daughter lives in Manhattan and does go out for a visit periodically. She didnt inherit my DIY genes, so turning on and re-draining the system is probably more than shed be able to handle. The house is occupied less than half the winter, so any kind alternative heat source is not going to meet the need. The house has two large propane tanks and the gas company tops them off every month, so the odds are pretty good wed be fine during a power outage. While making the house more comfortable while we are there would be a nice side benefit, my primary interest is in protecting the pipes when we are 1,000 miles away. Finally, the $2000 number came from this: http://www.amazon.com/Generac-5837-CorePower-Air-Cooled-Generator/dp/B003XQWY W0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1388243033&sr=8-1&keywords=standby+generator. I havent done any research at all; that was just a quick and dirty search. And, of course, 2 grand doesnt include installation. While I suspect I could handle most, if not all, of the job, I also dont think that would be legal, so it would have to be done professionally. I am sure the total bill will will be well above the 2 grand mark, especially given New York labor rates. I suspect this is my only option, but I am open to other options. As I think about it, it probably doesnt have to be totally automatic. I could get a transfer switch and convert a standard generator to propane (thanks for the conversion link, John) and then ask a friend to go over to the house to power it up in an emergency. But, I suspect I may as well just go with the small standby unit at that point. Thanks again. Let me know if the above sparks any other ideas. Jim On Dec 28, 2013, at 7:59 AM, John Innis wrote: > Everything you ever wanted to know about propane conversion: > http://www.propane-generators.com > > > > On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 6:04 PM, James Stone wrote: > I would like to set up a relatively inexpensive standby generator for my > vacation home. The house uses propane for heat, hot water and cooking, so the > logical thing to do would be to get a propane powered generator or convert one > to run on propane. I really don t need much power; more than anything, I want > to keep the house from freezing if we lose power while we are away, so I d be > happy if all it powered was the furnace, But, all I have found are pretty > substantial units that cost close to $2,000, which is more than I want to > spend for something like this. Does anyone know if it is possible to convert > a smaller generator to become a standby unit? Are there any other options I > should consider? > > Thanks. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis@gmail.com > > > > > -- > ================================= > = Never offend people with style when you = > = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = > ================================= _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Dec 28 08:41:23 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DDD640410 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 08:41:23 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from blu0-omc2-s9.blu0.hotmail.com (blu0-omc2-s9.blu0.hotmail.com [65.55.111.84]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BABED400A5 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 08:40:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from BLU0-SMTP33 ([65.55.111.73]) by blu0-omc2-s9.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Sat, 28 Dec 2013 07:38:53 -0800 Received: from [192.168.1.119] ([173.3.245.180]) by BLU0-SMTP33.blu0.hotmail.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Sat, 28 Dec 2013 07:38:51 -0800 From: James Stone Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 10:38:50 -0500 References: <5.1.0.14.2.20131227194138.0076e378@mail.avvanta.com> To: Shop Talk FILETIME=[E8C48840:01CF03E2] Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Tapping off a crimp connector? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Why not just solder the connectors on and protect them with heat shrink tubing? That is what I did when I rewired my Alpine last summer. One small diameter piece of tubing over the ferrule end (I think that is what it is called; the shank where it was crimped and soldered) and a larger piece to cover the connector. You can even use heat shrink tubing designed for exterior use. There is a standard size that is just barely larger than the connector end and when it shrinks it will also shrink over the soldered part (shrink the tubing over that end first), giving it added protection. The resulting connection looks pretty good; certainly a lot better than the standard plastic crimped ones, IMHO. On Dec 28, 2013, at 9:34 AM, Jim Franklin wrote: > On Dec 27, 2013, at 10:49 PM, Todd Walke wrote: > >> Another solution is to put two wires in one terminal. > > This is specifically what I was trying to ask - if there was a special > connector that would accept and crimp two wires independently. Sounds like no > and that the above is the way to go. > > The piggy-back piece would functionally work but I'd like to keep non-soldered > connections to a minimum since these will be exposed to front wheel spray. > > Thanks all. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jandkstone99@msn.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Dec 28 08:49:54 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6ED5403F1 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 08:49:54 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from hapkido.dreamhost.com (hapkido.dreamhost.com [66.33.216.122]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7349400A5 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 08:49:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from homiemail-a80.g.dreamhost.com (caibbdcaaaaf.dreamhost.com [208.113.200.5]) by hapkido.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1BB7DC754 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 07:48:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from homiemail-a80.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a80.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0646E37A06B for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 07:48:33 -0800 (PST) content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; s= groupwbench.org; bh=L3jbPWZcm+yFvA8R5xpzxcPh2Bc=; b=YsOfSra3pp7H y10CY6d0XDjGbTBBkBzHYMRCij1jxd2aJstFOlVbXqW6X7ZitDggrHV9bBls3AiE S25xw1727/pci0UT5S2Yy26e6UWlGgkRDiSZok2J+krCXf8chTpbvtqx56fTmTdx KvEfVG5WnSdz7UrwMdKxgk9Tzz08e8g= Received: from [192.168.1.2] (pool-108-49-151-170.bstnma.fios.verizon.net [108.49.151.170]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jamesf@groupwbench.org) by homiemail-a80.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CEF0237A065 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 07:48:32 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Franklin Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 10:48:31 -0500 References: <5.1.0.14.2.20131227194138.0076e378@mail.avvanta.com> To: shop-talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Tapping off a crimp connector? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Dec 28, 2013, at 10:38 AM, James Stone wrote: > Why not just solder the connectors on and protect them with heat shrink > tubing? Do you mean the actual connection so it can't be unplugged? I can't, it needs to stay removable. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Dec 28 09:50:29 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1773940405 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 09:50:29 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from col0-omc2-s15.col0.hotmail.com (col0-omc2-s15.col0.hotmail.com [65.55.34.89]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1505B403E3 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 09:50:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from COL401-EAS169 ([65.55.34.72]) by col0-omc2-s15.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Sat, 28 Dec 2013 08:49:06 -0800 From: Jim Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 11:49:00 -0500 References: <5.1.0.14.2.20131227194138.0076e378@mail.avvanta.com> To: Jim Franklin FILETIME=[B90D3750:01CF03EC] Cc: shop-talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Tapping off a crimp connector? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net No, I meant solder the connector on to the wires rather than just crimp it on. That would give you a more secure connection if you just put two wires into a single connector. Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 28, 2013, at 10:48 AM, "Jim Franklin" wrote: > >> On Dec 28, 2013, at 10:38 AM, James Stone wrote: >> >> Why not just solder the connectors on and protect them with heat shrink >> tubing? > > Do you mean the actual connection so it can't be unplugged? I can't, it needs > to stay removable. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jandkstone99@msn.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Dec 28 10:02:00 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BE2E4043C for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 10:02:00 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.69]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD6F340078 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 10:01:55 -0700 (MST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=lbNyIFaKXQcMA2tWIKS99YIThMLOBq24yEcRLBuWlORYCLlMa1egi1Pmogg8YIqu; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [172.13.241.15] (helo=[192.168.1.3]) by elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1VwxFg-0001s7-3f; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 12:00:40 -0500 Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 09:00:08 -0800 From: Brian Kemp User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 To: James Stone , Shop Talk References: Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Standby Generators Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Jim - Here is another idea. Rather than heat the house, how about just heating the pipes? I seem to recall some sort of electrical pipe heater wrap that was controlled by a thermostat, set down at about 45 degrees. You could then put insulated pipe wrap on top of that. If the current draw is low enough, you could look at a bank of batteries to power it, like people with solar power off the grid. The batteries could be on a good charger so they stay maintained. I don't know the pricing on this option, but it avoids an engine, generator, and transfer switch. You may even find a small second hand system from someone that upgraded to a larger size. Brian On 12/28/2013 7:31 AM, James Stone wrote: > Thanks guys. I will try to answer all of the questions. > > The house is on eastern Long Island. While that isnt a deep freeze area, it > certainly gets cold enough to freeze pipes. And, with electricity powered by > the infamous LIPA, being without power after a big snow storm is a definite > possibility. > The house is a small cottage: 780 sq feet, two bedrooms, one bathroom. Full > basemen, full attic. Minimal 1950s insulation in the walls (about 1 thick), > better in the attic roof. > Draining the house would be pretty easy and that is an option. However, my > daughter lives in Manhattan and does go out for a visit periodically. She > didnt inherit my DIY genes, so turning on and re-draining the system is > probably more than shed be able to handle. > The house is occupied less than half the winter, so any kind alternative heat > source is not going to meet the need. > The house has two large propane tanks and the gas company tops them off every > month, so the odds are pretty good wed be fine during a power outage. > While making the house more comfortable while we are there would be a nice > side benefit, my primary interest is in protecting the pipes when we are 1,000 > miles away. > Finally, the $2000 number came from this: > http://www.amazon.com/Generac-5837-CorePower-Air-Cooled-Generator/dp/B003XQWY > W0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1388243033&sr=8-1&keywords=standby+generator. I > havent done any research at all; that was just a quick and dirty search. > And, of course, 2 grand doesnt include installation. While I suspect I could > handle most, if not all, of the job, I also dont think that would be legal, > so it would have to be done professionally. I am sure the total bill will > will be well above the 2 grand mark, especially given New York labor rates. > > I suspect this is my only option, but I am open to other options. As I think > about it, it probably doesnt have to be totally automatic. I could get a > transfer switch and convert a standard generator to propane (thanks for the > conversion link, John) and then ask a friend to go over to the house to power > it up in an emergency. But, I suspect I may as well just go with the small > standby unit at that point. > > Thanks again. Let me know if the above sparks any other ideas. > > Jim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Dec 28 10:30:41 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 759CC40523 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 10:30:41 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from col0-omc2-s3.col0.hotmail.com (col0-omc2-s3.col0.hotmail.com [65.55.34.77]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A0C840405 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 10:30:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from COL401-EAS221 ([65.55.34.71]) by col0-omc2-s3.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Sat, 28 Dec 2013 09:29:20 -0800 From: Jim Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 12:29:19 -0500 References: <52BF0398.9020204@earthlink.net> To: Brian Kemp FILETIME=[579B05A0:01CF03F2] Cc: Shop Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Standby Generators Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Hmmm. A very interesting idea. I'll do a little research and see what I can learn. Thanks. Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 28, 2013, at 12:00 PM, "Brian Kemp" wrote: > > Jim - Here is another idea. Rather than heat the house, how about just heating the pipes? I seem to recall some sort of electrical pipe heater wrap that was controlled by a thermostat, set down at about 45 degrees. You could then put insulated pipe wrap on top of that. If the current draw is low enough, you could look at a bank of batteries to power it, like people with solar power off the grid. The batteries could be on a good charger so they stay maintained. > > I don't know the pricing on this option, but it avoids an engine, generator, and transfer switch. You may even find a small second hand system from someone that upgraded to a larger size. > > Brian > >> On 12/28/2013 7:31 AM, James Stone wrote: >> Thanks guys. I will try to answer all of the questions. >> >> The house is on eastern Long Island. While that isnt a deep freeze area, it >> certainly gets cold enough to freeze pipes. And, with electricity powered by >> the infamous LIPA, being without power after a big snow storm is a definite >> possibility. >> The house is a small cottage: 780 sq feet, two bedrooms, one bathroom. Full >> basemen, full attic. Minimal 1950s insulation in the walls (about 1 thick), >> better in the attic roof. >> Draining the house would be pretty easy and that is an option. However, my >> daughter lives in Manhattan and does go out for a visit periodically. She >> didnt inherit my DIY genes, so turning on and re-draining the system is >> probably more than shed be able to handle. >> The house is occupied less than half the winter, so any kind alternative heat >> source is not going to meet the need. >> The house has two large propane tanks and the gas company tops them off every >> month, so the odds are pretty good wed be fine during a power outage. >> While making the house more comfortable while we are there would be a nice >> side benefit, my primary interest is in protecting the pipes when we are 1,000 >> miles away. >> Finally, the $2000 number came from this: >> http://www.amazon.com/Generac-5837-CorePower-Air-Cooled-Generator/dp/B003XQWY >> W0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1388243033&sr=8-1&keywords=standby+generator. I >> havent done any research at all; that was just a quick and dirty search. >> And, of course, 2 grand doesnt include installation. While I suspect I could >> handle most, if not all, of the job, I also dont think that would be legal, >> so it would have to be done professionally. I am sure the total bill will >> will be well above the 2 grand mark, especially given New York labor rates. >> >> I suspect this is my only option, but I am open to other options. As I think >> about it, it probably doesnt have to be totally automatic. I could get a >> transfer switch and convert a standard generator to propane (thanks for the >> conversion link, John) and then ask a friend to go over to the house to power >> it up in an emergency. But, I suspect I may as well just go with the small >> standby unit at that point. >> >> Thanks again. Let me know if the above sparks any other ideas. >> >> Jim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Dec 28 10:45:48 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 187DC403A5 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 10:45:48 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-vc0-f180.google.com (mail-vc0-f180.google.com [209.85.220.180]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A21B8403A5 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 10:45:42 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-vc0-f180.google.com with SMTP id ia6so5147223vcb.11 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 09:44:27 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=T+8ZVXDNccVE17jXEQ8BnGWs8zDsimw8iWdTZ0KMTbU=; b=DFieeDU2jrT+q11aels9qzw5qLSvFoV4fdvpNVrwqp6co3w9MP7o1MD13tcSfZ60xW 74z+LVxbMxvNE3kTG0DQmefkFDoh/Tb+nEb597m/Ng5EOREfW4fSBAWlnDgeMeGmPANZ ILPLKjADm7g1RTEGGo1N1lFMeB45XLhn25HGY2QUjPjxA98vXRFgCwm6lAhit7oN8mXA KHYBS3FVySVEyz+D3zBUpwv+44gjs2mTjhgOAXIpxvlFhs7BzzJNQnmBQsaLbF0eXSAz uXRCv8jH0nribG9VRYZWe915JHb0CQ15UHQERb6bvBln1CQkQID8CsaTm8E3g8a5/5Sa GxDw== d3mr19598006vch.15.1388252667068; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 09:44:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.52.111.137 with HTTP; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 09:44:26 -0800 (PST) References: <5.1.0.14.2.20131227194138.0076e378@mail.avvanta.com> Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 11:44:26 -0600 From: Ronnie Day To: Shop Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Tapping off a crimp connector? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I've never been a fan of the Scotch-lock connectors that let you tap into an existing wire by crimping them on. They actually cut through the insulation and often some of the wire strands. If there's flex or vibration, like on a bike, they will often cut completely through the original wire. That said, the Posi-Lock looks like a better solution because it appears to isolate the joint with the cover. I like soldering, but not on a bike, again because of higher vibration. You can get connectors with different sized terminals that work with different gauge wire. For example a quarter inch female spade connector that the wire end is sized for small (red insulator-?), medium (blue-?) or large (yellow) wire. You get the connector with the correct connector flavor to plug on to the relay, but with the wire end big enough to accommodate two wires. Use good quality crimpers. Cheap crimpers are usually as big a culprit as the crimp connects. You mentioned weather proofing concerns, too. Use heat shrink, probably multiple layers. I picked some so called "weather proof" connectors, at a local O'Reilly's, I recall. They had lengths (a couple of inches) of heat shrink already attached as well as having some sealer inside the tubing. After I crimped them on to the wire and used a heat gun, the none hardening sealer created about as water proof a connection as is possible, and since the connectors weren't soldered they weren't as prone to breaking due to vibration. A little more expensive, but worth it, IMO. FWIW, Ron On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 10:49 AM, Jim wrote: > No, I meant solder the connector on to the wires rather than just crimp it > on. > That would give you a more secure connection if you just put two wires > into a > single connector. > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Dec 28, 2013, at 10:48 AM, "Jim Franklin" > wrote: > > > >> On Dec 28, 2013, at 10:38 AM, James Stone wrote: > >> > >> Why not just solder the connectors on and protect them with heat shrink > >> tubing? > > > > Do you mean the actual connection so it can't be unplugged? I can't, it > needs > > to stay removable. > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jandkstone99@msn.com > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ronnie.day@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Dec 28 11:04:24 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1DDA42901 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 11:04:24 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from hapkido.dreamhost.com (hapkido.dreamhost.com [66.33.216.122]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B21954003A for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 11:04:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from homiemail-a69.g.dreamhost.com (caibbdcaaaaf.dreamhost.com [208.113.200.5]) by hapkido.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84BF1181BF for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 10:03:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from homiemail-a69.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a69.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A569240119C08 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 10:03:02 -0800 (PST) content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; s= groupwbench.org; bh=u7h2eVO9AsYP//gjJHoDpdlQsfU=; b=RCpB92FDoW+a c3l5axw7i9Y7XsI5NWCDXdte46nQ3BaO32JfbT4lf0ynmc9HdD+re2+XILewHNQA KQnGMiRwxmoTJVc8fTFyup+1ZBmWpnXyE3jALFhbiuuKRYY/CQv1EHHPWKxVkUYi 68I9bK490PTCV0+O4mNxVPFipBqmxv8= Received: from [192.168.1.2] (pool-108-49-151-170.bstnma.fios.verizon.net [108.49.151.170]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jamesf@groupwbench.org) by homiemail-a69.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7406640119A33 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 10:03:02 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Franklin Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 13:03:00 -0500 References: <5.1.0.14.2.20131227194138.0076e378@mail.avvanta.com> To: shop-talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Tapping off a crimp connector? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Dec 28, 2013, at 11:49 AM, Jim wrote: > No, I meant solder the connector on to the wires rather than just crimp it on. That would give you a more secure connection if you just put two wires into a single connector. Oh yea, I am doing that. Crimp, solder, heat shrink. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Dec 28 11:08:21 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 692BB42823 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 11:08:21 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cartman.xxiii.com (lan23.xxiii.com [24.246.172.99]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DCCB40046 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 11:08:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (host-173-246-211-60.morrisbb.com [173.246.211.60] (may be forged)) by cartman.xxiii.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id rBSI70V1099464 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 13:07:00 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wc5813@gmail.com) Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 13:06:55 -0500 From: w User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <5.1.0.14.2.20131227194138.0076e378@mail.avvanta.com> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Tapping off a crimp connector? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On 12/28/2013 10:38 AM, James Stone wrote: > Why not just solder the connectors on and protect them with heat shrink > tubing? That is what I did when I rewired my Alpine last summer. That's about what I'd do. Important thing - DO NOT force the electrical connection to do the work of a mechanical connection. Use both. Twist the wires, put in connector, mash with a good crimp tool (not the $3 stamped steel thingies), flow solder (gas free joint), heat shrink tube, and something upstream on the wires to physically hold them so the vibration to the joint is reduced. -wayne _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Dec 28 11:08:34 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 929EF42EFC for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 11:08:34 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.120]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C18D640046 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 11:08:17 -0700 (MST) a=iHrfZUqj8pI4/cobIDz1/A==:17 a=enNQ1KVKsPkA:10 a=05ChyHeVI94A:10 a=ExDAyBU5CxkA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=KGjhK52YXX0A:10 a=4QNBB5Gk1NcA:10 a=MLgg0ZAhAAAA:20 a=32uw55HpAAAA:20 a=rNCAPYIqAAAA:20 a=u0N6_Wt2AAAA:20 a=uzlsHfLvhZ0Tsu04NKMA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=KXuLW65_DLEA:10 a=Zo07_JhIKBUA:10 a=7F1YL4A5PbAA:10 a=iHrfZUqj8pI4/cobIDz1/A==:117 Received: from [76.168.149.236] ([76.168.149.236:55002] helo=rypc) by cdptpa-oedge03.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 09/A4-21884-4431FB25; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 18:07:01 +0000 From: "Randall" To: "'Shop Talk List'" Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 10:07:01 -0800 Thread-Index: Ac8D9H4giU26QtAYQpOZIvlVzIfTRgAAPIDw Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Tapping off a crimp connector? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > They had lengths (a couple of > inches) of heat > shrink already attached as well as having some sealer inside > the tubing. FWIW, you can also buy just the tubing with the sealer inside. Any good electronics supply should have it, or I get mine at McMaster-Carr. My preference is to start with an uninsulated terminal (cut off the plastic if necessary), crimp it on the wire, then solder the end of the wire where it protrudes from the crimp. The crimp gives a sound mechanical connection that will resist vibration better than a solder joint; while the solder ensures a sound electrical connection (and the crimp prevents the wire from vibrating at the surface of the solder). Then add a piece of shrink tubing over the crimp and up onto the wire for 3/4" or so. For a female terminal, add a second piece that fits over the large part of the terminal and partially covers the opening. The open end will stretch to let the male terminal in, and help seal the joint. http://tinyurl.com/l73f8dh One other point, be sure the wire surface is clean and bright before the crimp. If the wire itself is old, you may need to clean the strands. http://tinyurl.com/ksfgktk Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Dec 28 13:04:01 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBCF9403EC for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 13:04:00 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from smtp001.apm-internet.net (smtp001.apm-internet.net [85.119.248.220]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD33F403C7 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 13:03:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 98363 invoked from network); 28 Dec 2013 20:02:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.1.104?) (86.171.123.227) by smtp001.apm-internet.net with SMTP; 28 Dec 2013 20:02:37 -0000 Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 20:02:41 +0000 From: Nick Brearley User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0 To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] Re (Shop Talk) Standby generators Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Jim wrote: >Hmmm. A very interesting idea. I'll do a little research and see what I can learn. Jim, This may be of interest: http://www.pentairthermal.com/application/pipe-freeze-protection/commercial-and-housing-facilities/index.aspx Uses Raychem trace heating tape. I imagine the effectiveness would be limited by the length of the power cut. Unless you can rig up backup power, possibly the requirements would be less than a furnace. Nick Brearley _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Dec 28 15:09:40 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2064403CF for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 15:09:40 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from eastrmfepo103.cox.net (eastrmfepo103.cox.net [68.230.241.215]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BA034006E for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 15:09:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from eastrmimpo109 ([68.230.241.222]) by eastrmfepo103.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.01.05.09 201-2260-151-124-20120717) with ESMTP id <20131228220817.YZCL3894.eastrmfepo103.cox.net@eastrmimpo109> for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 17:08:17 -0500 Received: from Joanna ([72.209.198.214]) by eastrmimpo109 with cox id 7A8D1n00R4e2Beo01A8Gzo; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 17:08:16 -0500 a=z+JOQeSqIXLCGjBsmWTDRw==:17 a=enNQ1KVKsPkA:10 a=G8Uczd0VNMoA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=kviXuzpPAAAA:8 a=4QNBB5Gk1NcA:10 a=aA17pGScKL33AXx_sxYA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=z+JOQeSqIXLCGjBsmWTDRw==:117 Authentication-Results: cox.net; none From: "ElanS4" To: "'Shop Talk List'" References: <767X1n00E0NyJgq0167YlT> Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 17:08:16 -0500 Thread-Index: AQEDVmbedIkDkveVSOYuvpYEia1PQZwBgxOA Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Tapping off a crimp connector? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > crimp it on the wire, then solder the end of the wire where it protrudes from the > crimp. The crimp gives a sound mechanical connection that will resist vibration better > than a solder joint; while the solder ensures a sound electrical connection It seems that everyone here believes that a soldered joint is better than a crimped one. That is not correct. A crimp connection - if done correctly with a GOOD crimp tool (not the cheap $3 ones) will make a strong mechanical AND electrical connection. Soldering will make a good electrical connection - however, it also make the wire stiff and subject to cracking from vibrations. Even if you only solder the tip of the wire, solder is made to flow along the wire to penetrate and make the good electrical connection. This also makes the stiffness extend beyond the crimp and highly increases the possibility of the wire cracking. There is a reason that car and motorcycle manufacturers make all the electrical connections to wires with crimps. There is a reason that Mil Specs require wiring harnesses to be crimped and only soldered in specific cases - this comes from someone that had to be Mil Spec certified for soldering and crimping for a job I had in college years ago. If you need to connect two wires together, you can make a solder connection in a wiring harness, but do it far from the ends of the wire and tape it up to support the wire and lessen vibrations. But better still, use a crimp connecter with one wire in one end, and two wires in the other end (and of course covered with heat shrink tubing). Tim Mullen _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Dec 28 17:03:43 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C5B5403B1 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 17:03:43 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cartman.xxiii.com (lan23.xxiii.com [24.246.172.99]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5918C4006E for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 17:00:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (host-173-246-211-60.morrisbb.com [173.246.211.60] (may be forged)) by cartman.xxiii.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id rBSNx6N9000650 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 18:59:06 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wc5813@gmail.com) Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 18:59:01 -0500 From: w User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0 To: Shop Talk List References: <767X1n00E0NyJgq0167YlT> <003f01cf0419$4eeea570$eccbf050$@cox.net> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Tapping off a crimp connector? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On 12/28/2013 5:08 PM, ElanS4 wrote: > It seems that everyone here believes that a soldered joint is better than a > crimped one. > That is not correct. A crimp connection - if done correctly with a GOOD > crimp tool (not the cheap $3 ones) will make a strong mechanical AND Good point, and mostly agreed. I understand the brittleness issue with soldering and should have mentioned that. And obviously OEM wiring harnesses are crimped. But that's assuming you have a dedicated expensive crimp robot, fasteners for the specific application, etc. I have an AMP crimper and three dies at the office that cost over $300 for RJ termminations and it's worth every bit in reliable network connections. If you're doing a DIY repair or replacement, I still think some more improvisation and "over doing it" is not a bad thing. A car is a pretty harsh and demanding environment, with temperature extremes, weather, vibration, and all that. -w _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Dec 28 18:52:09 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B21B403C6 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 18:52:09 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.120]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B32D34006D for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 18:52:01 -0700 (MST) a=iHrfZUqj8pI4/cobIDz1/A==:17 a=enNQ1KVKsPkA:10 a=05ChyHeVI94A:10 a=ExDAyBU5CxkA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=KGjhK52YXX0A:10 a=4QNBB5Gk1NcA:10 a=9Z4j2c5Pv9mZOb-Y3dUA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=iHrfZUqj8pI4/cobIDz1/A==:117 Received: from [76.168.149.236] ([76.168.149.236:55004] helo=rypc) by cdptpa-oedge02.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 22/F6-21976-3FF7FB25; Sun, 29 Dec 2013 01:50:44 +0000 From: "Randall" To: "'Shop Talk List'" Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 17:50:44 -0800 Thread-Index: AQEDVmbedIkDkveVSOYuvpYEia1PQZwBgxOAgAA7IUA= Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Tapping off a crimp connector? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > It seems that everyone here believes that a soldered joint is > better than a crimped one. Not what I said. What I said is that crimp plus solder is better than either one alone. > There is a reason that car and motorcycle manufacturers make all the > electrical connections to wires with crimps. Mostly because it is cheaper. Years ago, I worked for a company that did minicomputer installations aboard seismic survey ships. To do a seismic survey, they would set off the equivalent of a keg of dynamite (or more) right next to the stern of the ship, every 5-8 seconds, 24 hours a day for days or even weeks at a time. The whole ship would jump, every time a shot went off. We (my company) were responsible for connecting the minicomputers to other ships systems, which was done with a series of crimped terminals; professionally applied with the expensive, calibrated, ratcheting crimp tools; and 100% inspected. More often than not, when I visited a ship (for software installation or troubleshooting), I found one or more of those crimps that had succumbed to the constant vibration and salt air environment. I always repaired them with crimp plus solder, and I never found one of mine that had failed. With a crimp, you get basically a few lines of contact between the wire strands and the terminal, a few thousandths wide at best. In between are air gaps. With solder, you get 100% contact, no gaps. > Even if you only solder the tip of the wire, solder is made to > flow along the wire to penetrate and make the good electrical connection. But if you make the joint quickly enough (and without overheating), it won't penetrate all the way through the crimp to the other side. Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Dec 28 19:11:55 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C480403D9 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 19:11:55 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from col0-omc2-s10.col0.hotmail.com (col0-omc2-s10.col0.hotmail.com [65.55.34.84]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E71754006D for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 19:11:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from COL402-EAS20 ([65.55.34.72]) by col0-omc2-s10.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Sat, 28 Dec 2013 18:10:31 -0800 From: Jim Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 21:10:31 -0500 References: <22.F6.21976.3FF7FB25@cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com> To: Randall FILETIME=[26D468F0:01CF043B] Cc: Shop Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Tapping off a crimp connector? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > But if you make the joint quickly enough (and without overheating), it won't penetrate all the way through the crimp to the other side. Randall: the way you wrote this sounds like you don't want the solder to go all the way to the other side. Is that correct? I made sure all of my connections flowed through the ferrule, assuming that would be best. Was that wrong? Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 28, 2013, at 8:50 PM, "Randall" wrote: > > But if you make the joint quickly enough (and without overheating), it won't penetrate all the way through the crimp to the other > side. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Dec 29 11:07:32 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB020403EC for ; Sun, 29 Dec 2013 11:07:32 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from st11p05mm-asmtp003.mac.com (st11p05mm-asmtp003.mac.com [17.172.108.248]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EA4D403D0 for ; Sun, 29 Dec 2013 11:07:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from ml-air-3.home (pool-108-12-214-119.prvdri.fios.verizon.net [108.12.214.119]) by st11p05mm-asmtp003.mac.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7u4-27.08(7.0.4.27.7) 64bit (built Aug 22 2013)) with ESMTPSA id <0MYK00DY3YA3QK40@st11p05mm-asmtp003.mac.com> for shop-talk@autox.team.net; Sun, 29 Dec 2013 18:06:04 +0000 (GMT) engine=2.50.10432:5.11.87,1.0.14,0.0.0000 definitions=2013-12-29_03:2013-12-27,2013-12-29,1970-01-01 signatures=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=2 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1308280000 definitions=main-1312290125 From: ml Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 13:06:14 -0500 References: <22.F6.21976.3FF7FB25@cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com> To: Randall Cc: 'Shop Talk List' Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Tapping off a crimp connector? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I won't enter the fray regarding solder or crimping or both - not enough experience on my part to be expert. But Randall's comment below is wrong. If done properly - admittedly a big "if" - crimps have full (100%) contact between the wire strands and the connector with minimal or no air gaps at all. The crimp should deform the wire strands as it deforms the connector leading to a solid mass of metal in the area of the crimp. To see what I mean check out this link: http://www.epp-europe.eu/archive/-/article/32536727/35088948/Different-specif ications/art_co_INSTANCE_0000/maximized/ Whether you can achieve this level of quality consistently with DIY tools is another question. For me, investing in the proper tooling for each of the connectors that I use has been worth every penny. In many cases that's meant tooling in the low hundreds of dollars rather than $3 or $30 though. But I've never had a crimp fail yet. Michael On Dec 28, 2013, at 8:50 PM, Randall wrote: > With a crimp, you get basically a few lines of contact between the wire strands and the terminal, a few thousandths wide at best. > In between are air gaps. With solder, you get 100% contact, no gaps. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Dec 29 11:25:03 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CE40403EB for ; Sun, 29 Dec 2013 11:25:03 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm9-vm3.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (nm9-vm3.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [216.39.63.67]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 2352B403D5 for ; Sun, 29 Dec 2013 11:24:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from [216.39.60.171] by nm9.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Dec 2013 18:23:35 -0000 Received: from [98.138.226.240] by tm7.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Dec 2013 18:23:35 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp111.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Dec 2013 18:23:35 -0000 s=s1024; t=1388341415; bh=n2ouaXWyxc86cfpVA4w4QQBk18RNwvTMVMw1tytYN0U=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-Rocket-Received:Message-ID:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-Antivirus:X-Antivirus-Status; b=meUJ8zPf6nJxv1z5h0fhHIj2495pJNYU/5f12be2+Ye0GVMKhQ1OzRdvuXshdg6INLD14vnbmZat4zbEoqmsDMlRSNXEONwixObDyIc5ZSFvtfndM9OnmaItXJ2BSrB4zBXkwu3RZicnukZpfXzrlz4hVY/hZNgUlFUYL8lzyzQ= 3UZYyMeJrR2WqLB8RBOef5AKHT0.6QH.vUixs3XSWHrzWag8DrCBRQ0rkDdk 3aiso8Xd2hsUrfJelxB2CqPyexRXU2H56RCwXIqRXLlWR6fBZ4khOJ80YUYN .19zUMTbsfVzjzQk.X0FPs1hEhp.o9tpSMEhjQkImQ5FZntFJsebmMrExNYO z8mjtPn8HgjmmamgxUBxBT86u1tivQurn_UOz4L4tzddj.825qRyX5__f0FM PV.xsK_PwTjO34CwVh8PDH78YEC2fK9nFa0d93c0cHxZJyI.sfKOhLUWUYJA TU21NQK1NGzcZyPbuvGluXvzhJx75z0EwVyggaaAIaFhvyKOcE4GBVTbGH3o t4Rfhh3TpVNFkms0hM0RhWX3tAUQnwH3t0hHIpzxmSrNi.BRZnpai82BKhQq PHbilTfh68HgDaJks8CxLasMgcMWkyJsjrdOwRSjKSGuwCbbBQbGcrmF.c0i 8e9JdoMJqn.O1vdHJ8rYv0bScJ2QPKD6nk4nSvdlxzOr0_kOpQ5ULv39dNyo CccuObWKLyqCg.Oizrg-- plain [98.138.31.74]) by smtp111.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Dec 2013 10:23:35 -0800 PST From: "John Niolon" To: "shop-talk" Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 12:23:42 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] test lead connectors Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net for lack of a better term... that's what I need. Recently in the past I've had to do some testing of equipment and the only access was thru it's connector.... the connector was approx 3/8" wide and 3/4" long with 8 pins... that mated to a similar constructed plug (female) the test point was inside a piece of equipment with very little room and it was nearly impossible to get to. When I tried to hold my test lead on the pin my hand was blocking my view and it was impossible to get two leads in that small connector and get both hands in the hole to hold them. so... I';m looking for some test lead connectors that would resemble a sleeve (or female end) that would slip over the connector pins much like the mating connector might... I guess I could buy a matching connector and butcher it up or build a test cable from it.... but it's probably a one time test and not worth the time of $$$... anyone ever seen this type connector ??? know of a source other than homemade ??? I'm not even sure what to call them to do a search on them. thanks John Many people are alive only because it's illegal to shoot them. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Dec 29 12:27:24 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D612340406 for ; Sun, 29 Dec 2013 12:27:24 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from m1plsmtpa01-06.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (m1plsmtpa01-06.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net [64.202.165.34]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6712F403D5 for ; Sun, 29 Dec 2013 12:23:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.50.6] ([38.103.208.34]) by m1plsmtpa01-06.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net with id 7XMU1n0090l45Le01XMVPi; Sun, 29 Dec 2013 12:21:30 -0700 Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 13:21:28 -0600 From: Pat Horne User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <22.F6.21976.3FF7FB25@cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com> <071854D8-15C4-47A9-BE5C-B0F0279E5E1D@me.com> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Tapping off a crimp connector? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net In the 60s, while in the Air Force, I attended a soldering school that taught us to solder to NASA specs. The problem with soldering wire to that level was with the solder wicking up under the insulation, basically making the stranded wire a solid wire. We used anti-wicking tweezers, which was basically a heat sink that kept the solder near the connection, allowing for more flexibility of the wire. Either a high quality crimper, spot welding, or minimal amounts of solder would be my choice, in that order. Peace, Pat Thusly spake ml > I won't enter the fray regarding solder or crimping or both - not enough > experience on my part to be expert. But Randall's comment below is wrong. If > done properly - admittedly a big "if" - crimps have full (100%) contact > between the wire strands and the connector with minimal or no air gaps at all. > The crimp should deform the wire strands as it deforms the connector leading > to a solid mass of metal in the area of the crimp. > > To see what I mean check out this link: > http://www.epp-europe.eu/archive/-/article/32536727/35088948/Different-specif > ications/art_co_INSTANCE_0000/maximized/ > > Whether you can achieve this level of quality consistently with DIY tools is > another question. For me, investing in the proper tooling for each of the > connectors that I use has been worth every penny. In many cases that's meant > tooling in the low hundreds of dollars rather than $3 or $30 though. But I've > never had a crimp fail yet. > > Michael > > > On Dec 28, 2013, at 8:50 PM, Randall wrote: > >> With a crimp, you get basically a few lines of contact between the wire > strands and the terminal, a few thousandths wide at best. >> In between are air gaps. With solder, you get 100% contact, no gaps. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat@hornesystemstx.com > > > Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice & Text 5026 FM 2001 Pat@HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Dec 29 12:40:40 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94503403F2 for ; Sun, 29 Dec 2013 12:40:40 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.61]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B9BD403F2 for ; Sun, 29 Dec 2013 12:40:34 -0700 (MST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=R6+rek0Aut9yml/oysdm3dWAfHynLgol3d76RpyUdC59R9nLzJL1tcLBjjRAi6PG; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [172.13.240.128] (helo=[192.168.1.3]) by elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1VxMCg-0003JX-44; Sun, 29 Dec 2013 14:39:14 -0500 Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 11:38:41 -0800 From: Brian Kemp User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 To: John Niolon , shop-talk References: <7F463D9A29A44A9E8D3F844D3E86DB76@john5043a2d406> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] test lead connectors Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net John - You can buy just the pins that go in the connector without the connector body. Typically when making a connector, you connect the wire to the pin then insert it in the connector. A local electronics store may have them. For a quick test without going to the store, consider something that you can jam in (but not too hard to mess up the pins). Some stiff stranded wire might. For small connectors (dishwasher control panel), I used a pin (like from a new dress shirt) as a probe and clipped my test lead to that. I've also used segments of a soda can. You can cut the can with ordinary scissors to get a length and width to suit your need. Use caution as the cut edges are sharp. You could crimp some light gauge wire in the can segments to make it easier to connect your meter probes. You can also twist a strip of the can around a nail to make a sleeve. The important thing to do here is avoid any short if testing with power. Don't do this for high power like 110 AC or a high current DC application like connected to a 12V auto battery. I would also not do this with any sensitive electronics that are powered on. It should be fine for a continuity or resistance test of equipment that is off. Brian On 12/29/2013 10:23 AM, John Niolon wrote: > for lack of a better term... that's what I need. Recently in the past I've > had to do some testing of equipment and the only access was thru it's > connector.... the connector was approx 3/8" wide and 3/4" long with 8 pins... > that mated to a similar constructed plug (female) > > the test point was inside a piece of equipment with very little room and it > was nearly impossible to get to. When I tried to hold my test lead on the pin > my hand was blocking my view and it was impossible to get two leads in that > small connector and get both hands in the hole to hold them. > > so... I';m looking for some test lead connectors that would resemble a sleeve > (or female end) that would slip over the connector pins much like the mating > connector might... I guess I could buy a matching connector and butcher it up > or build a test cable from it.... but it's probably a one time test and not > worth the time of $$$... > > anyone ever seen this type connector ??? know of a source other than homemade > ??? I'm not even sure what to call them to do a search on them. > > thanks > John > > > > Many people are alive only because it's illegal to shoot them. > > > > > --- > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus > protection is active. > http://www.avast.com > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Dec 29 12:51:09 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 836EF40423 for ; Sun, 29 Dec 2013 12:51:09 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from outbound-mail02.vgs.untd.com (outbound-mail02.vgs.untd.com [64.136.55.36]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 9E0D0403F2 for ; Sun, 29 Dec 2013 12:51:04 -0700 (MST) s=alpha; t=1388346583; bh=47DEQpj8HBSa+/TImW+5JCeuQeRkm5NMpJWZG3hSuFU=; l=0; h=From:Date:To:Subject:Message-Id:Content-Type; b=M9ruDTsU0niiJ0AwvMBteOu3b4iH8naT67EIn2mZVEcqWo+99TooxTvYiOt83DsD4 XUdJ7UdTDkRNSF9L1bLinryXKr40f7WVt7qb8I9914q0fHz//m7itMIb1NnU62eF95 ZWDQa8nlJnyzrFjyXRPjQCtojg0s/ZMz3OWf9XOE= Received: from outbound-bu1.vgs.untd.com (webmail02.vgs.untd.com [10.181.12.142]) by smtpout03.vgs.untd.com with SMTP id AABKNA9FRAAEV8NA for (sender ); Sun, 29 Dec 2013 11:49:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from [24.42.238.6] by webmail02.vgs.untd.com with HTTP: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 19:47:02 GMT From: "Matt" Full-Name: "Matt" Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 19:47:02 GMT To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] test lead connectors Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net John,I have a couple of light duty leads that have a small copper wire hook that allow easy connection to an open wire.I have successfully bent the tip a little to allow 90 degree operation but don't know if there is enough room within a cannon plug... Home made small tube may be the best bet. MB ---------- Original Message ---------- From: "John Niolon" To: "shop-talk" Subject: [Shop-talk] test lead connectors Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 12:23:42 -0600 for lack of a better term... that's what I need. Recently in the past I've had to do some testing of equipment and the only access was thru it's connector.... the connector was approx 3/8" wide and 3/4" long with 8 pins... that mated to a similar constructed plug (female) the test point was inside a piece of equipment with very little room and it was nearly impossible to get to. When I tried to hold my test lead on the pin my hand was blocking my view and it was impossible to get two leads in that small connector and get both hands in the hole to hold them. so... I';m looking for some test lead connectors that would resemble a sleeve (or female end) that would slip over the connector pins much like the mating connector might... I guess I could buy a matching connector and butcher it up or build a test cable from it.... but it's probably a one time test and not worth the time of $$$... anyone ever seen this type connector ??? know of a source other than homemade ??? I'm not even sure what to call them to do a search on them. thanks John Many people are alive only because it's illegal to shoot them. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mbarre@juno.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Dec 29 13:19:32 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3EC340439 for ; Sun, 29 Dec 2013 13:19:32 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-la0-f54.google.com (mail-la0-f54.google.com [209.85.215.54]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76147403F2 for ; Sun, 29 Dec 2013 13:19:26 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-la0-f54.google.com with SMTP id b8so5085011lan.41 for ; Sun, 29 Dec 2013 12:18:04 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=E9p1KG/bSPEgIkauzOGTpgjtWSXNuFN5tehses4Q/gk=; b=pjIaqPHyqL6B2rYSmtj8f+BTXCJTO2hX/RN7ORLFtybOvPTOaKR/Ow7P+iMLYxRUdY t2j2ao8AmWL6PXc22eOdv5zD6rt5LjKCaFMC9AqtQjmXduJ+vRvNExQG02gk/4mQpWhn +6UiKqAX1IVat6qI4WIJbLaKTvfK4uxsrPo3sxY7C8YaY38aKZoTTP3UKFePJRLTvvtj D5UKvcvmkw6f8Xbc50FgVYZNEnUJLA2mAeGOyh4dLJbyy01awMRLXq+p1ncY0Ty22X2J KZZatKyUVT5qaxsmmnRnXSC40iFW4EAQfiG5PCLoZOP2zx0or83RrzVwLBziDQhESNSN VEbw== ao8mr10135977lbc.41.1388348284669; Sun, 29 Dec 2013 12:18:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.112.40.67 with HTTP; Sun, 29 Dec 2013 12:18:04 -0800 (PST) References: <22.F6.21976.3FF7FB25@cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com> <071854D8-15C4-47A9-BE5C-B0F0279E5E1D@me.com> <52C07638.7050000@hornesystemstx.com> Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 15:18:04 -0500 From: Jeff Scarbrough To: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Tapping off a crimp connector? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I think sometimes we might lose sight of the fact that we aren't driving to the Moon in our cars. Yes, MilSpec connecting is a critical science, and must be done exactly as specified. Yes, it works great under severe circumstances where lives are at stake. Yes, sometimes soldering can lead to problems, and sometimes inadequate crimping can as well. But, I've done all sorts of automobile wiring connections over the last 40 years, including twisted wires under black electrical tape, and the only kind I've had fail was the IDCs that Volkswagen used in a fuel pump relay recall campaign. And even then, it was probably less than 10% failure. Given a preference, I'd use a $300 crimper to make my connections. But, I'm too cheap to spend $300 on a tool I'll use rarely - especially when that task can be carried out quite adequately with a lesser crimper, solder, and heat-shrink tubing. Put some thought into the connection, and how it will be used, protected, and secured, and you'll likely be just fine. Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Dec 29 13:24:28 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F111D40434 for ; Sun, 29 Dec 2013 13:24:27 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from dfn.com (mail.dfn.com [74.116.128.7]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1D314003B for ; Sun, 29 Dec 2013 13:24:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.0.3] [216.223.227.106] by dfn.com with ESMTP (SMTPD-12.3.0.100) id 2538000bb0089358; Sun, 29 Dec 2013 13:22:58 -0700 Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 13:22:55 -0700 From: Michael Porter User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 To: Pat Horne , shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <22.F6.21976.3FF7FB25@cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com> <071854D8-15C4-47A9-BE5C-B0F0279E5E1D@me.com> <52C07638.7050000@hornesystemstx.com> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Tapping off a crimp connector? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On 12/29/2013 12:21 PM, Pat Horne wrote: > In the 60s, while in the Air Force, I attended a soldering school that > taught us to solder to NASA specs. The problem with soldering wire to > that level was with the solder wicking up under the insulation, > basically making the stranded wire a solid wire. We used anti-wicking > tweezers, which was basically a heat sink that kept the solder near > the connection, allowing for more flexibility of the wire. > > Either a high quality crimper, spot welding, or minimal amounts of > solder would be my choice, in that order. > When I worked at the big bus company, we had large customers that put crimped soldered connections in their specs, and there was no way to avoid soldering. Now, on balance, soldering is more likely to provide a positive electrical and physical connection--initially. What we found, over time, is that vibration (this problem became more acute once the industry changed over from six- cylinder 2-stroke diesels to four-cylinder four-strokes) would eventually affect the joint pretty much no matter how the joint was soldered (because the problem would invariably start at the junction between the soldered joint and the unsoldered wires), and the fix was to add support and vibration damping to as much of the wire and joint as possible. We ended up using adhesive-coated shrink tubing to about two inches behind the terminal and extended over as much of the terminal as possible without interfering with the electrical connection, with double layers of tubing over heavier wires. This didn't completely end the problem, but it did greatly extend the time to failure. Engine vibration caused no end of troubles--on one model, we identified one maximum amplitude vibration behind the front door which over time would crack the vertical structural member horizontally, travel through the side destination sign and crack the forward vertical member horizontally, crack the upper door header vertically, then travel down through the a-pillar and crack it horizontally about halfway down. Couldn't change the vibration, so the only fixes were fishplates and internal bracing in the a-pillar. And that's nothing compared to the havoc wreaked by vibration on military aircraft. Once knew a guy who did avionics repair on carrier F-14s and he said it was a losing battle trying to keep the avionics running while on a cruise because the vibration would cause the connectors to literally crumble, and there never were enough spares. Cheers. -- Michael Porter Roswell, NM Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance.... _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Dec 29 21:32:50 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAF92403D0 for ; Sun, 29 Dec 2013 21:32:50 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from eastrmfepo203.cox.net (eastrmfepo203.cox.net [68.230.241.218]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 467EA4032A for ; Sun, 29 Dec 2013 21:32:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from eastrmimpo110 ([68.230.241.223]) by eastrmfepo203.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.01.05.09 201-2260-151-124-20120717) with ESMTP id <20131230043119.UDQE3853.eastrmfepo203.cox.net@eastrmimpo110> for ; Sun, 29 Dec 2013 23:31:19 -0500 Received: from Joanna ([72.209.198.214]) by eastrmimpo110 with cox id 7gXF1n00B4e2Beo01gXJlm; Sun, 29 Dec 2013 23:31:18 -0500 a=z+JOQeSqIXLCGjBsmWTDRw==:17 a=enNQ1KVKsPkA:10 a=G8Uczd0VNMoA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=kviXuzpPAAAA:8 a=4QNBB5Gk1NcA:10 a=a2s0Gm667U32rmGXdZgA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=EHtWMxhDnXw1O1x-:21 a=zC8Caj47JFbU937k:21 a=z+JOQeSqIXLCGjBsmWTDRw==:117 Authentication-Results: cox.net; none From: "ElanS4" To: "'Shop Talk List'" References: <22.F6.21976.3FF7FB25@cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com> <7W6a1n00d0NyJgq01W6bVC> Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 23:31:19 -0500 Thread-Index: AQGMso7MWRCVeJlmQ54aCxQu1FTvwQGo+gn6muOAEpA= Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Tapping off a crimp connector? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > But Randall's comment below is wrong. If done properly - admittedly a big "if" - crimps have > full (100%) contact between the wire strands and the connector with minimal or no air gaps at all. > The crimp should deform the wire strands as it deforms the connector leading to a solid mass > of metal in the area of the crimp. Exactly correct. > Whether you can achieve this level of quality consistently with DIY tools is another question. For > me, investing in the proper tooling for each of the connectors that I use has been worth every > penny. In many cases that's meant tooling in the low hundreds of dollars rather than $3 or $30 though. Ignore the cheap tools - the crimp, cut wires, and cut bolts to the proper length (the cheap tool). But you can go to Lowes and buy a large pair of wire working pliers for less than $20 - they cut the wire and have a couple of crimp positions (make sure you get one that crimps the size crimps you need to use). The secret is to not just get the cheap crimpers that squeeze the crimp flat, but get the type that indents one side into the other - actually make a dent into the wire (makes the finished crimp slightly "U" shaped. That works as well as the several hundred dollar types I've have from various jobs. For crimp connections on typical computer type connections, make sure you get the type that takes the open "U" shaped crimp and curls the "U" over and into the wire as it squeezes them. Again, I never had one fail, and as far as I know the wiring harnesses (all crimped) I used to make for on-board weapons control for Navy Destroyers are still working fine. > But I've never had a crimp fail yet. Me either. But I have had soldered and crimped connections fail - actually the wire near to the crimp. That was before I learned how to do the MilSpec stuff - basically crimp only unless there was absolutely no other way. Tim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Dec 29 22:09:49 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAFD1403E0 for ; Sun, 29 Dec 2013 22:09:49 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.120]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C89FB40333 for ; Sun, 29 Dec 2013 22:09:41 -0700 (MST) a=iHrfZUqj8pI4/cobIDz1/A==:17 a=enNQ1KVKsPkA:10 a=05ChyHeVI94A:10 a=ExDAyBU5CxkA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=KGjhK52YXX0A:10 a=4QNBB5Gk1NcA:10 a=b4KrJKo_AAAA:8 a=tJK6mZ-RAtwxFQfJMO0A:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=acT4UeTqAWKEIaTY:21 a=qTc2YOmEp7HRN4Y8:21 a=iHrfZUqj8pI4/cobIDz1/A==:117 Received: from [76.168.149.236] ([76.168.149.236:55002] helo=rypc) by cdptpa-oedge04.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id D8/39-11872-2CFF0C25; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 05:08:19 +0000 From: "Randall" To: "'Shop Talk List'" Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 21:08:18 -0800 Thread-Index: AQGMso7MWRCVeJlmQ54aCxQu1FTvwQGo+gn6muOAEpCAAApvwA== Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Tapping off a crimp connector? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > Ignore the cheap tools - the crimp, cut wires, and cut bolts > to the proper > length (the cheap tool). BTW, the referenced web site had a photo of a perfectly crimped connector, with obvious air gaps between the wire strands. It doesn't always work. I also seriously doubt that it is possible to get that kind of deformation, when crimping through the common plastic insulation. So, you can go spend $500+ on the fancy crimp machine, and wire, and connectors. Don't forget that the tool has to be periodically calibrated and a different tool is required for every combination of wire size and terminal size. Or use my method with the cheap terminals, cheap tools, and a $50 solder gun. (All of which can be bought locally on a Saturday afternoon.) I've been doing it that way for 30 years, and haven't had a failure yet. BTW, no one has mentioned what do you do when the wire you have to work with (eg original British wiring harness) is not an AWG wire size? Where is your wire-specific crimper then? Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Dec 30 11:58:47 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80F6340525 for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 11:58:47 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from eastrmfepo201.cox.net (eastrmfepo201.cox.net [68.230.241.216]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 960F140433 for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 11:58:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from eastrmimpo209 ([68.230.241.224]) by eastrmfepo201.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.01.05.09 201-2260-151-124-20120717) with ESMTP id <20131230181618.YVYF4590.eastrmfepo201.cox.net@eastrmimpo209> for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 13:16:18 -0500 Received: from Joanna ([72.209.198.214]) by eastrmimpo209 with cox id 7uGF1n0064e2Beo01uGJN1; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 13:16:18 -0500 a=z+JOQeSqIXLCGjBsmWTDRw==:17 a=enNQ1KVKsPkA:10 a=G8Uczd0VNMoA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=kviXuzpPAAAA:8 a=4QNBB5Gk1NcA:10 a=F8Jl_NraD8bhpMcS0S8A:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=_iXr9jdFswhBg7d1:21 a=kmjbkEYd_3foVCml:21 a=z+JOQeSqIXLCGjBsmWTDRw==:117 Authentication-Results: cox.net; none From: "ElanS4" To: "'Shop Talk List'" References: <000001cf0517$fcc2df50$f6489df0$@cox.net> <7h8g1n00T0NyJgq01h8hB5> Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 13:16:20 -0500 Thread-Index: AQHOeHePXlRtxxW/WUY67qxnzwUxr5puH7Cw Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Tapping off a crimp connector? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Randall wrote: > > BTW, the referenced web site had a photo of a perfectly crimped connector, with obvious air > gaps between the wire strands. It doesn't always work. Obviously the crimp was too large, but that still doesn't mean that you don't have a solid mechanical and electrical connection. Heck, one of my projects for today is to replace the wire and resolder a connection inside my son's guitar. It is in a "sealed" environment with no pulling or yanking on the wire, but the vibrations (he plays very hard) cracks the solder connection. I'd use some other type of connection, but the pots are designed to have solder joints. I have to make this repair at least once a year. > I also seriously doubt that it is possible to get that kind of deformation, when crimping through the common plastic insulation. You don't crimp through the common plastic insulation. Use crimps with out the plastic, or remove the plastic from your crimp. Then slip on some shrink tubing crimp the wire and shrink the tubing over the crimp. > So, you can go spend $500+ on the fancy crimp machine, and wire, and connectors. Don't forget that the tool has to be periodically > calibrated and a different tool is required for every combination of wire size and terminal size. I have them, and since I'm not contracted for MilSpec work, they do not need calibration (I doubt that they would even then). But I seldom use them. I use a pair of $20-30 wire cutter/crimper from Lowe's it works just fine, crimping and denting in the crimp. Remember you DO NOT want the cheap crimpers that just squeeze the crimp flat on each side. An example of a good one is item number Item #: 473138 | Model #: TCC9D on Lowes web site. Notice the "prong" on one side that punches into the crimp on one side and the curved place on the other side the crimp gets crushed into. For an example of a bad crimper look at item number check Item #: 214865 | Model #: 30-433F - it just flattens the crimp. (I'd include the links but that's not working on my browser right now. > Or use my method with the cheap terminals, cheap tools, and a $50 solder gun. (All of which can be bought locally on a Saturday > afternoon.) I've been doing it that way for 30 years, and haven't had a failure yet. Yet is the key word there... :) > BTW, no one has mentioned what do you do when the wire you have to work with (eg original British wiring harness) is > not an AWG wire size? Where is your wire-specific crimper then? The crimps we are talking about fit a small range of wires. I'm sure the British wires fit in there somewhere. They have for me. Just use the smallest crimp that fits over the wire.\ Tim Mullen _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Dec 30 13:56:45 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E7DA4053A for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 13:56:45 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.120]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3441E40452 for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 13:47:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([10.127.143.51]) by cdptpa-qmta01.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20131230204520213.EHMD7872@cdptpa-qmta01.mail.rr.com> for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 20:45:20 +0000 a=iHrfZUqj8pI4/cobIDz1/A==:17 a=enNQ1KVKsPkA:10 a=05ChyHeVI94A:10 a=ExDAyBU5CxkA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=KGjhK52YXX0A:10 a=4QNBB5Gk1NcA:10 a=5fgbenPyZ2IcTOkvuqcA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=3FfNXnMhNNsA:10 a=vaatA-WUb9IA:10 a=kzffzD5WJfMmRpJk:21 a=ojlafWQWOvv7weyY:21 a=iHrfZUqj8pI4/cobIDz1/A==:117 Received: from [76.168.149.236] ([76.168.149.236:55006] helo=rypc) by cdptpa-oedge01.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id A7/4B-00868-7EAD1C25; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 20:43:20 +0000 From: "Randall" To: "'Shop Talk List'" Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 12:43:20 -0800 Thread-Index: AQHOeHePXlRtxxW/WUY67qxnzwUxr5puH7CwgAAuWVA= Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Tapping off a crimp connector? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > > Or use my method with the cheap terminals, cheap tools, and > a $50 solder > gun. (All of which can be bought locally on a Saturday > > afternoon.) I've been doing it that way for 30 years, and > haven't had a > failure yet. > > Yet is the key word there... :) Ok, you win. The method that I've seen fail in a matter of months IS better than the one that has never failed in 30 years. Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Dec 30 14:42:17 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A94340510 for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 14:42:17 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from dogbert2.mail.megageek.com (nj-69-34-94-16.sta.embarqhsd.net [69.34.94.16]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 594E140453 for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 14:41:37 -0700 (MST) To: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net From: eric@megageek.com Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 15:58:24 -0500 7.0.1|January 17, 2006) at 12/30/2013 16:17:46, Serialize complete at 12/30/2013 16:17:46 Subject: [Shop-talk] Installing a Network device in a safe. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net OK, so while I was looking at high end gun safes, I noticed that they now come with a RJ45 passthrough as well as 110v AC inside. I was told this was so you could put a network storage device (NAS) in it to keep your data safe as well. My question is, is there enough air flow in a safe to have a few hard drives running in there? I have a Seagate BlackArmor 4 TB NAS that I want to put in the safe. Is there a certain temperature I need to maintain? Is there an effective way to monitor the temp inside the safe? Thanks in advance. Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Dec 30 15:11:03 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29BD340422 for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 15:11:03 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from itonami.pair.com (itonami.pair.com [209.68.2.178]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 89050403F6 for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 15:10:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 81513 invoked by uid 3198); 30 Dec 2013 22:09:02 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 30 Dec 2013 22:09:02 -0000 Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 17:09:02 -0500 (EST) From: David Hillman To: eric@megageek.com References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.02 (BSF 1266 2009-07-14) Cc: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Installing a Network device in a safe. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On Mon, 30 Dec 2013, eric@megageek.com wrote: > My question is, is there enough air flow in a safe to have a few hard > drives running in there? I have a Seagate BlackArmor 4 TB NAS that I want > to put in the safe. > > Is there a certain temperature I need to maintain? Is there an effective > way to monitor the temp inside the safe? Yes, there's a temperature you need to stay below. Check the documentation from Seagate, it will tell you the environmental conditions that the device can tolerate. You can buy a network-friendly thermostat with an RJ45 connection. The questions are, though; a) what do you do with the signal once it's outside the safe and b) do you then need to add a switch inside the safe ( and more heat/power ). Or you could put a $5 oven thermometer in there, and check it from time to time. Regarding your first question... an archival device, which is what I think you are describing, is not going to generate much heat nor require much air for cooling. Most of the time, it'll be sitting there like a rock. With all that metal (the safe itself) to soak up that heat, I think your temperature will stay reasonable. -- David Hillman _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Dec 30 18:56:52 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0156F40514 for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 18:56:52 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cartman.xxiii.com (lan23.xxiii.com [24.246.172.99]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 068AA40513 for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 18:56:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (host-173-246-211-60.morrisbb.com [173.246.211.60] (may be forged)) by cartman.xxiii.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id rBV1t40w010407 for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 20:55:04 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wc5813@gmail.com) Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 20:54:59 -0500 From: w User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Installing a Network device in a safe. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On 12/30/2013 3:58 PM, eric@megageek.com wrote: > OK, so while I was looking at high end gun safes, I noticed that they now > come with a RJ45 passthrough as well as 110v AC inside. I was told this > was so you could put a network storage device (NAS) in it to keep your > data safe as well. Interesting question. I'd guess a safe is one helluv'a thermal insulator, so I'm thinking you do not want to put active electronics in it. I think current hard drives pull 2 - 10 watts depending on level of activity. But I built a media server specifically trying to keep it low power, and the dang thing still pulls 66 watts from the wall with a Core 2 based 34W Celeron and only two drives. With my local utility, rates work such that 1W = just under $1/year. I'm an IT pro and have had to deal with backups for decades. I don't really see an individual or family having that much data or need for immediate recovery. I segregate my stuff into different directories. The critical stuff 7'Zips & ImgBurns onto one DVD. I'd like to backup my collection of music ripped from 30 years of CDs, but... other media, meh. Can be replaced. Unless you have a ton of family photos or such that are irreplaceable. I'd think some low power "near line" storage like a flash drive, and use something to mirror it, like unix rsync or windows SyncToy could work. > My question is, is there enough air flow in a safe to have a few hard > drives running in there? I have a Seagate BlackArmor 4 TB NAS that I want What are you trying to protect from? Fire? Theft? Any air flow would compromise fire protection. Rambling on too long. -w _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Dec 30 19:09:58 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D31742A31 for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 19:09:58 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-pd0-f177.google.com (mail-pd0-f177.google.com [209.85.192.177]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A241F403ED for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 19:09:37 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-pd0-f177.google.com with SMTP id q10so11823895pdj.22 for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 18:08:10 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=YwgC6e/e3lyxJshhHEcxr+5xVzaImUk+/ryhbFr6BvQ=; b=cwqWDVi2PCnt2uc+qLMA9qGJQe3LgLzlP+8VuqkWRKe9WBeKHtfl8AQpjpSDCbd4kR SHFuPUW657/v1juMLuB9weytHJuNul1Olr/9QBGb8dghEr+d7Uyfjo1QqZUdDwBIYCNG aR8mnOgXYEmjZeUxdJCiZ/wFusCOJmUg2GWDmB22qUPj/cxG/SKrXizILunDqNpmskQV l0KJ40UQtGSDBPCT0QoDmzChTRX6xRbQRexPEjPbZI3ZqqdLAJSde3jVoIzkbPkYjL5k 6HjSR3vXxP25oIXGpeUcVyhjJuIw6iptYNFbymfMjMRvaYIliHjuR4HLgkpjL/a1dbwr UHOQ== ya3mr72121041pbb.102.1388455690595; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 18:08:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.70.31.195 with HTTP; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 18:08:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.70.31.195 with HTTP; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 18:08:10 -0800 (PST) References: <52C223F3.8000009@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 21:08:10 -0500 From: Peter Murray To: w Cc: Shop-Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Installing a Network device in a safe. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Best practice is to have your backup off-site. Look at CrashPlan or another cloud offering. They are cheap and have been quite reliable for me. You could also look into using Amazon S3 or Glacier storage. -Peter On Dec 30, 2013 8:55 PM, "w" wrote: > On 12/30/2013 3:58 PM, eric@megageek.com wrote: > >> OK, so while I was looking at high end gun safes, I noticed that they now >> come with a RJ45 passthrough as well as 110v AC inside. I was told this >> was so you could put a network storage device (NAS) in it to keep your >> data safe as well. >> > > Interesting question. I'd guess a safe is one helluv'a thermal insulator, > so I'm thinking you do not want to put active electronics in it. I think > current hard drives pull 2 - 10 watts depending on level of activity. But I > built a media server specifically trying to keep it low power, and the dang > thing still pulls 66 watts from the wall with a Core 2 based 34W Celeron > and only two drives. With my local utility, rates work such that 1W = just > under $1/year. > > I'm an IT pro and have had to deal with backups for decades. I don't > really see an individual or family having that much data or need for > immediate recovery. I segregate my stuff into different directories. The > critical stuff 7'Zips & ImgBurns onto one DVD. I'd like to backup my > collection of music ripped from 30 years of CDs, but... other media, meh. > Can be replaced. Unless you have a ton of family photos or such that are > irreplaceable. > > I'd think some low power "near line" storage like a flash drive, and use > something to mirror it, like unix rsync or windows SyncToy could work. > > My question is, is there enough air flow in a safe to have a few hard >> drives running in there? I have a Seagate BlackArmor 4 TB NAS that I want >> > > What are you trying to protect from? Fire? Theft? Any air flow would > compromise fire protection. Rambling on too long. > > -w > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ > peterwmurray@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Dec 30 20:05:28 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DF3A40524 for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 20:05:28 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from outbound-mail02.vgs.untd.com (outbound-mail02.vgs.untd.com [64.136.55.36]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 74DF040357 for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 20:05:19 -0700 (MST) s=alpha; t=1388459031; bh=47DEQpj8HBSa+/TImW+5JCeuQeRkm5NMpJWZG3hSuFU=; l=0; h=From:Date:To:Subject:Message-Id:Content-Type; b=MLMLoGj3jvErsxfVzps9GVhmr+vnw6g6ACyWGl5Mj8onJHhSumTBSGGcOsRXJmEBp YylKA4uUoGi1icNJEdzLX2CvygrM3t6le0OW0UDv4FaYH26u4zzZ+0ZcEXIau8+H6X H9HbcCGMYofSrRSRvQWXrV6O/asHYhNSd+Nm+POI= Received: from outbound-bu1.vgs.untd.com (webmail14.vgs.untd.com [10.181.12.154]) by smtpout04.vgs.untd.com with SMTP id AABKNEPAQANHEQM2 for (sender ); Mon, 30 Dec 2013 19:03:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from [24.42.238.6] by webmail14.vgs.untd.com with HTTP: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 03:02:17 GMT From: "Matt" Full-Name: "Matt" Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 03:02:17 GMT To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Installing a Network device in a safe. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I was under the impression that late model hard drives have a built in health monitoring capability.At one time I downloaded some software that allowed you to see the figures and I believe there were a couple of temp data points.Whether external drives have that same capability I do not know. From: eric@megageek.com wrote Is there a certain temperature I need to maintain? Is there an effective way to monitor the temp inside the safe? _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Dec 30 20:11:37 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F9ED4281C for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 20:11:37 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm13-vm9.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (nm13-vm9.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [216.39.63.251]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 4A17840454 for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 20:11:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from [216.39.60.169] by nm13.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Dec 2013 03:10:03 -0000 Received: from [67.195.22.119] by tm5.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Dec 2013 03:10:03 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp114.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Dec 2013 03:10:03 -0000 s=s1024; t=1388459403; bh=KCUXCs/TZ2YSE0h30kjM+965YoDtJSB3CEF5E9gfH20=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-Rocket-Received:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:Thread-Index:X-MimeOLE; b=G0/YTtdveA3wunPVZOcXKOEZDFOJ8F+PT6DIMzPXbRBNlf9M2Tg7V2NFmMp2Sz3dkTPp2kuB9+YSl+A8YpuDyvEsPC/D4hix6pAACoqMNyWiPO0vH/CY0Ge7rJ+MyhVu9lWXBJywqgcPLI8KMZ+GuYkcvAdP54YJx7tzPn1Qu7Y= 34otEddio_juq39HocincBMfAFFIXjt9SjDHFJAMjAQEWWhf5acz5ZAycLUq EMXEFjITctZBrQKA9jDWY.FmpeOCPmnAGOoJiTmSHXO98EezhOiAADzQCjxT ZgwnePvoYn_dfk14OPvVJbTQ94RBbMt22OUt3bTDmJA3H4nk_ufSChkKFRhL ZNlVC14sMWCm63ypVTG9fNHpvF.YgS3HEOcWGJBtOZFg7Aos4VM45gpV0DOT lhzg_08KNYOQRQR6bl5Nn3rD.LRMm2IXyi2Gk2p8CN48pcqOfaqZoY5lzGdP acmTfoGa8oXnkwUmbPgl8EONOSIN6iXUW9dM3Rys1T3Z.jlgQt2huWqJcnub 1zuYoZJHrsYjr.HqUNnhg8n9fKgTLW.oVkTC3vh1PdKjj48a9S6FkJ1dOWEJ e.YB1IKiLlJLSR12G3cG_c4SbKjXBbAaxnQsrqZBQLCgdQkITRYmUwDOS76C usdv3tMwsqplo5MsXXHvC2u4z6Yy5hmsKV3HhqwfsaIw8YI.YpojIav.dIYj 4MRZo8ZpMoiunESxKjaky1rRcyNUfvzqnoBDWWQpzLvdVQQjku.IRw.FdyoG I1.G8aL2qgw-- [67.195.15.66]) by smtp114.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Dec 2013 19:10:03 -0800 PST From: "Jack Brooks" To: References: <20131230.220217.349.0@webmail14.vgs.untd.com> Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 19:10:01 -0800 Thread-Index: Ac8F1P6dqlYnlIIwSBCv6QHSAqe7tAAAEMtw Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Installing a Network device in a safe. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Temp - Cooler is better. I don't know what a safe high temperature is. I suspect every degree higher reduces the life by some factor, but I have no idea how much. See my earlier post about my server system drive. A simple remote thermometer will allow the sensor to be in the safe and the display outside. The thinner thermocouple cables "should" be able to handle the safe door closing on it. Jack -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 7:02 PM To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Installing a Network device in a safe. I was under the impression that late model hard drives have a built in health monitoring capability.At one time I downloaded some software that allowed you to see the figures and I believe there were a couple of temp data points.Whether external drives have that same capability I do not know. From: eric@megageek.com wrote Is there a certain temperature I need to maintain? Is there an effective way to monitor the temp inside the safe? _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jibjib@att.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Dec 30 20:11:52 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CF9A4053A for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 20:11:52 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from nm15-vm1.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (nm15-vm1.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [216.39.63.13]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 7B70540511 for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 20:11:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from [216.39.60.165] by nm15.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Dec 2013 03:10:03 -0000 Received: from [67.195.22.119] by tm1.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Dec 2013 03:10:03 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp114.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Dec 2013 03:10:03 -0000 s=s1024; t=1388459403; bh=J6nfQJcAfz8254iabA8gFqDrz4pw9ZjerZiZUg8EU88=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-Rocket-Received:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:Thread-Index:X-MimeOLE; b=O9mZBo94b4m7veGB8PvwDiZ+WDKkDY94ljL/UILHtfH0uMv8ZrtpccRiqYnu4xACtUNLsS7hioNqXVU7l6rpqrTnUwLrdR+qnvkggups2sxX98zV4HijwKxf0SVY44U1ksSHM+iEhODokzGRvXGxiQz2kxdxiGPWRcj7Mbtz/Xk= QIdxvUG033rVCIlP5p4wysRYA0wqforoHXL7wfFaSKiYdMxDtwUhLhZ.swrK iMiPDSB4nXrSWz71bNrGQjEJHrGhnnpSFT.WBpHY2rzapIXP0im33xjyDe38 8asUSZc.px4Klm91LgujqXhFRk27R4hMLjYBc4Jcs1eDJcWXVPJ_OHbL6DV6 QKhABiMiHWZNAVvngohu4L9SMHxXgT897LuyTvog0KYgjx4Lu8Dx2IrZEv9a eldqIFTYY4ot1P_qNbYz1HG.nO5_U1MQi8IPCSCSkjJKn5xH32CKRGmBufnk w3vUiEpmJNYsas1YVlIlOBg7_XUKwaC1H1eJIsKX2On7gRGT4yLcWAF2J1YA 9AU2aS4K9Ou4xrw9ygbmWOZdx9RpLkDjilsCD7Sr6DYwCgbE8VtTuwX.V2z4 tybYLMOOlicjyT4RyQQjIsLvvmve543MLnbqBs6wkv0SSATD4tCPprDUjG2F oIxUHeQaDRn2kUlryHzFmHjCQoOG1cISLnAlXgus03V1oBXgTOwMi4jhMxlO e5ok- [67.195.15.66]) by smtp114.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Dec 2013 19:10:03 -0800 PST From: "Jack Brooks" To: "'Shop-Talk List'" References: <52C223F3.8000009@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 19:10:01 -0800 Thread-Index: Ac8FzTmcsRp7r3a2RLqgnA0qmMo/1wABKIaw Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Installing a Network device in a safe. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Keep your NAS where it can be kept cool and back the data up to a separate drive and store it off site. I use Windows home server to back up all 5 home computers and hold about 1TB of other data. In case of a catastrophic loss, I back up everything to a 2TB hard drive which I keep in a safely deposit box at the bank, updating it every few weeks to a month. Easy. One of the worst things you can do to a hard drive is run it hot all. It's a mechanical device. When I started adding fans to the desktop computers & in my server, the lifespan went up. The fans blow directly over the hard drives from one end. My system drive has 7 years and 169 days of run time on it today. Scary, since it's my most important drive, but it's a great size for the system disk and it's now been running smoothly in this 3rd server rendition. Right now, in my 73F server closet, it's running just under 80F, same as most of my server drives, although two run up around 85F. Jack > On 12/30/2013 3:58 PM, eric@megageek.com wrote: > >> OK, so while I was looking at high end gun safes, I noticed that they now >> come with a RJ45 passthrough as well as 110v AC inside. I was told this >> was so you could put a network storage device (NAS) in it to keep your >> data safe as well. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Dec 30 20:58:53 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35CAE40533 for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 20:58:53 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from eastrmfepo201.cox.net (eastrmfepo201.cox.net [68.230.241.216]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C305B40511 for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 20:58:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from eastrmimpo110 ([68.230.241.223]) by eastrmfepo201.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.01.05.09 201-2260-151-124-20120717) with ESMTP id <20131231035720.PXSO4590.eastrmfepo201.cox.net@eastrmimpo110> for ; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 22:57:20 -0500 Received: from Joanna ([72.209.198.214]) by eastrmimpo110 with cox id 83xH1n00b4e2Beo013xLle; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 22:57:20 -0500 a=z+JOQeSqIXLCGjBsmWTDRw==:17 a=uPEAkgtr_EIA:10 a=G8Uczd0VNMoA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=kviXuzpPAAAA:8 a=PzuYhx7Z-dYA:10 a=KUPM9j_mkjXC4aKFhlAA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=z+JOQeSqIXLCGjBsmWTDRw==:117 Authentication-Results: cox.net; none From: "ElanS4" To: References: <81ve1n01a0NyJgq011vfdk> Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 22:57:23 -0500 Thread-Index: AQD1OJBUESVMyzcGfqvYTrcAq72wZAIqUvgSnA/yAgA= Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Installing a Network device in a safe. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > I'm an IT pro and have had to deal with backups for decades. Me too, or at least I used to be. Years ago, I used to back up my work system (a VAX) onto 8mm digital video tape and carry the backup home with me every night. Did a full backup each night, and switched tapes every morning. Kept on each week so I could always get close to a point in time in the past if necessary. Offsite storage and system restore in about an hour. The other system had to keep the backup tapes in the computer room. Of course it was a classified computer and you had to enter the room through two bank vault type of doors. A full Halon system took care of fire concerns... :-) Now, I back up through a port on my network router to an external 3TB disk. The router has a built in port to handle such things but it's a USB connection. If I wanted to protect that storage, I'd simply back it up to an external drive USB drive, and put the drive in the safe. It shouldn't really need to be operating all the time. > > I don't really see an individual or family having that much data or need for immediate recovery. Yep, I occasionally do a full back up to an external drive, and an automated nightly backup of the changed/added files to the external drive. > I'd think some low power "near line" storage like a flash drive, and use something to mirror it, like > unix rsync or windows SyncToy could work. Yep, or external USB drives. ;-) Tim Mullen _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Dec 31 18:36:33 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4443442F01 for ; Tue, 31 Dec 2013 18:36:33 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from haybaler.sackheads.org (haybaler.sackheads.org [140.186.190.103]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47C3942EF9 for ; Tue, 31 Dec 2013 18:36:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost.sackheads.org [127.0.0.1]) by haybaler.sackheads.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1CEA285A2 for ; Tue, 31 Dec 2013 20:34:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from haybaler.sackheads.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (haybaler.sackheads.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WDqrGNeEFs5c for ; Tue, 31 Dec 2013 20:34:35 -0500 (EST) Received: by haybaler.sackheads.org (Postfix, from userid 1004) id A5217285A1; Tue, 31 Dec 2013 20:34:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 20:34:35 -0500 From: Jimmie Mayfield To: shop-talk@autox.team.net User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.16 (2007-06-09) Subject: [Shop-talk] 12V cordless tools? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Hi. Does anybody have any experience with 10.8V/12V cordless tools? Lately I've become intrigued by 12V lineups from Bosch, Makita and Milwaukee. In particular, Milwaukee's new brushless 12V drill and 1/4" impact driver have specs that come pretty close to the larger 18V and 19.2V stuff out there. Does anyone have any experience with these 12V guys? JM _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Dec 31 21:39:45 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from 50-198-190-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AEEA42A14 for ; Tue, 31 Dec 2013 21:39:45 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.120]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E264542EFA for ; Tue, 31 Dec 2013 21:39:35 -0700 (MST) a=iHrfZUqj8pI4/cobIDz1/A==:17 a=BHjKLxkSeEoA:10 a=05ChyHeVI94A:10 a=ExDAyBU5CxkA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=KGjhK52YXX0A:10 a=N4cbsLd2QS0A:10 a=Lc3rmCt1GXJhqeTE7ewA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=iHrfZUqj8pI4/cobIDz1/A==:117 Received: from [76.168.149.236] ([76.168.149.236:55005] helo=rypc) by cdptpa-oedge01.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id D7/08-00868-AAB93C25; Wed, 01 Jan 2014 04:38:03 +0000 From: "Randall" To: "'Jimmie Mayfield'" , Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 20:38:04 -0800 Thread-index: Ac8GkbtVbKBA87NXTwq10EV0S829DwAFwAYg Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] 12V cordless tools? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > Hi. Does anybody have any experience with 10.8V/12V cordless > tools? Not sure if it helps, but I have an old 12v Ryobi drill that I've been quite happy with. With the 2-speed gearbox (plus variable speed trigger), it usually has enough torque for what I want to do. I still get out the corded Milwaukee for big jobs, but the cordless will drive 1/4" lag bolts (up to about 1.5" long) into pine. The lighter weight makes it easier to use in awkward places, like hanging off a ladder or crawling in the attic. It was originally 3/8", but I made an adapter so I could mount a 1/2" keyless chuck on it. Battery life could be better, but with two packs, I can always keep one of them on the fast charger to be ready when I need it. Biggest downside, Ryobi no longer makes that model, so I can't buy batteries at the local "big box" store. Found some on the Internet last time, but next time I may have to send the old packs out to be "rebuilt". Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive