Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Storage Container Rental

From: w <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 16:18:18 -0500

On 10/30/2013 1:55 PM, Doug Braun wrote:
> My garage is 24' x 24' with a nice smooth crack-free concrete floor, and
> the house is about 30 years old.  When I bought the house 7 years ago, I
> painted the floor with epoxy (one of those kits form HD).  I did a careful
> job with the prep, including a power-washing and an acid etch, and the job
> looked great for a while, but after a couple of years it started
> blistering, and and now it has random bare spots all over the place.

Wow, missed this one on the list a couple weeks ago. Been wondering the 
same myself.

Ten years ago I laid down "Hard Deck", a two part epoxy after 
*extensive* cleaning and etching of the floor. The stuff is made for 
airport hangars. You have to be gentle with a floor jack on it, and if 
you drop a fairly heavy tool like a breaker bar, it will gouge it. But 
upon close examination the concrete below is usually gouged. Can't ask a 
coating to hold up if the substrate won't.

It's held up a bunch better than some painted floors I've seen, Still, 
I'd like something better. Unfortunately, or for the better, it's so 
durable I think it would be nearly impossible to strip. The first epoxy 
layer soaked in like a stain, the 2nd laid on, and the poly' on top is 
*untouchable* by solvents I've seen rip up other floors. Got a little 
oil spill or brake fluid? Throw some acetone, MEK, brake cleaner, etc on 
it and wipe up. I WILL NOT budge. The company rates it as resistant to 
"skydrol" which is some kind of aviation hydraulic fluid I have not used 
myself, but assume is pretty harsh.

http://www.airtechcoatings.com/galleryhd.html

-w
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From: John Innis <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 15:28:14 -0600

I have used skydrol.  I was an aircraft mechanic in a previous life.  That
stuff was nasty.  We had a large spill on the hanger floor one day and
after helping clean it up about half of the rubber soles on my sneakers was
gone.  Supposedly it would not burn even at very high temperatures, but I
never had occasion to test that.

On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 3:18 PM, w <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Ten years ago I laid down "Hard Deck", a two part epoxy after *extensive*
> cleaning and etching of the floor. The stuff is made for airport hangars.
> You have to be gentle with a floor jack on it, and if you drop a fairly
> heavy tool like a breaker bar, it will gouge it. But upon close examination
> the concrete below is usually gouged. Can't ask a coating to hold up if the
> substrate won't.
>
> It's held up a bunch better than some painted floors I've seen, Still, I'd
> like something better. Unfortunately, or for the better, it's so durable I
> think it would be nearly impossible to strip. The first epoxy layer soaked
> in like a stain, the 2nd laid on, and the poly' on top is *untouchable* by
> solvents I've seen rip up other floors. Got a little oil spill or brake
> fluid? Throw some acetone, MEK, brake cleaner, etc on it and wipe up. I
> WILL NOT budge. The company rates it as resistant to "skydrol" which is
> some kind of aviation hydraulic fluid I have not used myself, but assume is
> pretty harsh.
>
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From: "Jack Brooks" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 19:01:00 -0800

> blistering, and and now it has random bare spots all over the place.

During your wet season duct tape a 2x2 foot square of plastic over one or
more of the blistered areas and see if you get condensation under there
after a few days.  Unless those spots were still a bit oily, moisture might
be your issue.

Jack

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From: "Elton E. (Tony) Clark" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 21:30:29 -0600

Third time's the charm;
I had to learn the hard way but the "etch" process is critical:  one can't
just pour and broom around muriatic acid in etching;  what worked for me is
to use a big plastic watering can from the garden store:  make sure *every
square inch of floor* gets contact with *fresh* acid from the sprinkler.
The acid is quickly "killed" by it's reaction with the concrete and becomes
neutralized it seems to me.

On 18 November 2013 21:01, Jack Brooks <[email-masked]> wrote:

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From: "Jack Brooks" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 20:43:11 -0800

The best method is a scarification machine, like a blast track
http://www.tcsdivisions.com/blast-tracking  It will remove everything and
leave nice, open pore concrete for the epoxy bond to.  Muriatic can often
get all the painted steel in the garage rusting, if you dont ventilate well
enough. The problem with a blast track is that for just painting a floor, it
might leave grooves in the concrete; its that tough on the floor.  We used
them when we were troweling on a sand/epoxy mix < inch thick.  That was a
tough floor.

For home use, or small areas, we often used diamond stones on commercial
floor polishers to grind off the surface finished and top layer of concrete.
This is what I would use to prep for paint in my home garage.  It cleans off
all coatings, gets to open pore concrete and smoothes out the concrete at
the same time.

Jack

  _____

From: Elton E. (Tony) Clark [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 7:30 PM
To: Jack Brooks; Shop Talk List
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Epoxy floor

Third time's the charm;

I had to learn the hard way but the "etch" process is critical:  one can't
just pour and broom around muriatic acid in etching;  what worked for me is
to use a big plastic watering can from the garden store:  make sure every
square inch of floor gets contact with fresh acid from the sprinkler.  The
acid is quickly "killed" by it's reaction with the concrete and becomes
neutralized it seems to me.

Jack

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