Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Engine damage

From: "Elton E. (Tony) Clark" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 12:25:10 -0500

I'm sure the collective will suggest several methods of destructive
ways to damage an engine: abrasives, acids, adhesives, etc., but for a
positive lock on the damage there is oil analysis available to anyone:

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/free-test-kits.php

Tony in Texas

On 30 September 2013 11:17, <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Hello all, theoretical question about engines.
>
> My co-workers and I were talking about trying to identify if an engine was
> tampered with after it was destroyed. (I work in law enforcement.)
>
> We were wondering, would you be able to tell if someone put sugar in a gas
> tank and it lunched the engine?  Mostly on a small engine verses a car.
> (I'm assuming that a fuel filter would catch any additives in a car.)
>
> If so, is there something else to put in gas that would kill it?  Or
> something else that can be done that was undetectable?
>
> I knew this would be the place for the definitive answer!
>
> Eric P
> "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational
> being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph
> Waldo Emerson
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From: Benjamin Zwissler <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 13:38:50 -0400

Well, first I'd clear up the popular myth that sugar in the gas will kill
your car very quickly.  Snopes and Click and Clack have both dealt with
this and both say the sugar won't do any immediate damage to your car.
Sugar doesn't dissolve in water and the worst problem might be a plugged
filter, but even that's unlikely.  Most likely its just going to sit in the
bottom of the tank.

So, if you're looking at other things that will quickly kill an engine if
added to the fuel, my first thought would be diesel fuel or water.  I'd say
both are reasonably detectable though and generally reversible.  Beyond
those I'm not sure.  If you put something that lowered the Octane
significantly you could damage the engine from excessive knock.  You could
plug the filter, carb/injectors with some type of contaminant, maybe epoxy
paint or something that thickens/hardens.

Lots of thiings could be put in the oil, including gasoline, water, etc.,
that would cause slow damage to the engine.  Excessive amounts of ether
starting fluid in the intake while its running will kill it pretty quick.
As will dribbling lots of water in the intake.  Depending on how much time
has elapased these may not be detectable.

Ben....

On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 12:17 PM, <[email-masked]> wrote:

> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]

[email-masked]

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From: "Bob Kegel" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 12:15:26 -0700 s=q20121106; t=1380568528; bh=mpgJCvfQrhFn2cIhrwf4xso3einFB7Dp9dqC/zB+jqU=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Reply-To:From:To:Subject:Date: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=C4uHsbeEUCV3SnOkGbVC2CPUjSN1VxzyhY58t+7G4dlKByxHqyCWCbPvMpsjTEV1r S7gFGcH0YzQ+bCNOrsdC1TA7uBi2a2SBh8CjAMstoYYAIrdMzmCzCFFZVaNvTrrh7i 8cR+YZZXAAj8TdJrerutd8J8Gbo3vEy93qeDuQ5ndSmEZ4swmZ01DMPRU8xsriR54W t8ugZVFQ/Nvrs4Xv0PVtAYwQBXctrQGVo9NTzAfWO7rCBWIEGFDK2iaZpRfOfzn/la WYoFp+iGOKydwcqdroP2CT9dneOCysb7+RtAjMPtCks5wC1as6K2xecFb4L6CEGaRm iWofxMoBvTxAQ==

Many years ago I read Stanley Lovell's book, "Of Spies and Stratagems", 
about his experiences as head of the OSS' research and development lab. 
They were tasked with finding a way to disable Axis vehicles, suitable for 
use by a spy or resistance members. The lab was unable to develop anything 
that could be added to fuel. What they eventually came up with was an 
abrasive that would trash an engine's bearings when added to the oil. It was 
delivered in a capsule, dropped through the oil filler.

Bob k 

[email-masked]

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From: Fred Katz <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 18:42:08 -0700

Bleach added to a gas tank will destroy an engine.

Fred - SSF, CA

[email-masked]

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From: Fred Katz <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 18:51:06 -0700

I just read up on why bleach destroys an engine. The chlorine reacts
chemically with gasoline and causes extreme rusting (oxidation). A high volume
of rust sediment will be found in the engine. Additionally, the bleach
corrodes all metal, plastic and rubber it comes into contact with. Also breaks
free sediment in gas tanks and fuel lines, sending it to the engine when
running.

Fred -

[email-masked]