Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Learning to weld on your own?

From: Mike Rambour <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 16:15:02 -0700

Handy with your hands ? you can do it.

  I learned to weld with a oxy/acet torch and I find filling holes like 
you are talking about easier with that but can be done with MIG or TIG.

  The MIG is ideal for replacing body panels.  For the holes it would be 
best if you can  get some copper behind the hole just for welding 
purposes, that makes it pretty easy to fill holes.

  I actually went to the Lincoln school of welding when I got serious 
about car work, great way to spend a weeks vacation :) But the level of 
work you are talking around did not need that week of schooling.   If 
you get a MIG, be warned my friends joked that I was using my MIG as a 
Plasma cutter because on thin metals I would create more holes then I 
was repairing.  For me (and maybe me only) I find TIG much easier but I 
torch welded for 30+ years before I tried the MIG, most people don't 
have the trouble I had with MIG.   I was able to pick up TIG in no time 
due to the my oxy/acet experience.

  I assume you meant MIG in your email, I would go with gas for any body 
work and avoid flux wire (just for clean up purposes, the weld is fine), 
if you meant TIG, that is the best in my opinion and yes it will do a 
better job then a MIG.  But remember a MIG is measured in feet per 
minute and a TIG weld in inches per minute. They are both great tools, I 
think MIG is better suited for thin sheet metal work if you can do it 
right.  But I go years without touching my MIG and use my TIG a few 
times a month.  I did do a exhaust for the daughters boyfriend's car 
last month and since I was welding on my back with the car barely off 
the ground I appreciated the MIG but I would have done a better looking 
job with TIG.

  So PRACTICE PRACTICE and when you are ready to start the real work, 
PRACTICE one more time and then come back here and brag how great a job 
you did.

     Mike
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From: David Hillman <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 20:26:46 -0400 (EDT)

On Mon, 29 Jul 2013, Darrell Walker wrote:
> 1.  Is it reasonable to think that I could teach myself to weld well 
> enough to do these jobs?  I definitely don't want to make anything 
> worse in attempting fix anything.

    Unless you are in a hurry, absolutely.  Get a welder, and some scrap 
metal, and start practicing.  Once you have the same problem consistently, 
go to weldingweb.com and ask for help.  Until you are consistent, there's 
not much point.  It just takes practice.  I got a TIG a couple years ago, 
and taught myself.  Sticking metal together is easy, I did that on the 
first day.  Making it look professional is hard, I'm still working on 
that.

> 2.  What kind of equipment would be required?  Would one of the inexpensive
> 110V welders be sufficient?  Would a TIG matter over a flux wire-feed for
> these jobs?

    It sounds like you are exclusively welding thin material, in which 
case, a 110V machine will do that just fine.  The operator is a far bigger 
variable than the machine.  You can get around 150 amps from a 110v 
machine, and the rule of thumb is .001" steel thickness requires 1 amp. 
More for aluminum and stainless, which doesn't seem relevant here.

    As far as the process is concerned, I think everyone finds whatever 
they learned first to be the easiest.  Stick guys can weld anything with 
a car battery and some jumper cables.  Again, it's the Indian, not the 
arrow.  I find TIG easier than anything else, but that's only because it 
is what I learned on, and what I practice.  I hate MIG.  Stick is fun, 
but tricky.  Again, all personal preference.

> 3.  How much paint should be removed around the repair holes?

    I would say a couple inches.  You aren't going to be putting all that 
much heat into it, just to patch a couple small holes, and you have to 
watch the heat to avoid warping the material.  When you practice, note 
how far the Heat-Affected Zone ( HAZ ) spreads.  Take off more paint than 
that.

    Have fun.  Be aware that once you learn to weld, nothing is ever truly 
broken again.  It's just a question of whether you have the time and 
desire to fix it ;)

--
  David Hillman

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From: Brian Kemp <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 18:01:49 -0700

Darrell - I'm not a good welder, so can't offer technical details about 
the different types of equipment, but I do have some other suggestions. 
  Some of this depends on your intentions for the car.

- Look for a local welder and get a quote for the welding work.  I did 
this to repair my cracked TR6 differential mounts and some frame 
cracking.  I did the prep on my schedule by cleaning down to bare metal 
and having the reinforcing brackets ready.  The car was up on jack 
stands and the differential and suspension parts were out of the way.  I 
did not have a welder or the power to run one in that apartment's 
garage.  The guy came out with a small welder and generator and charged 
me $60 for the job (a 1 hour minimum).  He finished it in about 30 
minutes and gave me a 30 minute credit for any work I brought to his 
shop.  Even if I could weld, lying on your back and welding above you 
doesn't sound like fun.  This was a 1995 price in the Los Angeles area. 
  Well worth the expense.

- When I rebuilt my TR6 engine, I also painted the engine compartment. 
I went down to bare metal and discovered several places where screw 
holes were filled with Bondo.  They were at least a decade old and I 
didn't have any idea they were there.  One side was painted and the 
other side was undercoated.  If the car is  a driver, consider just 
filling the holes with Bondo.  You will have to knock down the raised 
areas where the screws were.  This could be an option for the trim and 
luggage rack holes.

- For the rear panel, better Bondo may also be an option.  Clean up the 
old bad job then see about popping out the dent.    If you have access 
to both sides, you could get a Harbor Freight  7 Piece Body and Fender 
Set - item#31277, on sale for $29.99.  With a little time, you can get 
much closer and just have a thin layer of Bondo. I did this with my 
Subaru door after a neighbor backed into it and you couldn't tell after 
I painted.  A body shop wanted $740 for a job I did in a weekend plus 
two evenings.

- For removing old Bondo (outside), I used my angle grinder and a couple 
wire brushes.  I did most of the work with a cupped brush, but also had 
a disk and small ones in a drill.  Wear eye protection and at least a 
dusk mask if not a respirator.  You get down to nice clean metal that 
takes new Bondo and paint very well.

- If you do want to get into welding, check with a local welding supply 
company.  They may offer some sort of training program, especially with 
an equipment purchase.  Being a novice and not used to the equipment, 
you are also likely to need their assistance at some point - something 
you are not likely to get if you buy the equipment at a home center. 
They will probably also help set it up and make recommendations for 
settings.

- Finally, if you weld, pick up some trash body panels and practice 
welding before you get near your TR8.  Also keep a fire extinguisher 
handy just in case.

Brian

On 7/29/2013 3:54 PM, Darrell Walker wrote:
> I have some body repairs I'd like to do on my TR8, and I'm wondering about the
> feasibility of learning to weld well enough to do them on my own.  I've
> checked the local community college, and the only welding classes they have
> are geared toward students preparing for a career in welding, they don't have
> any "Adult Ed" type classes.  Of course, I could have a body shop do it, but
> the few that are willing to do this kind of work want to do the whole job at
> once, and not piecemeal (I also want a respray at some point).
>
> I have three different things to address:
>

> Darrell Walker
> 66 TR4A IRS-SC CTC67956L
> 81 TR8 SATPZ458XBA406206
> Vancouver, WA, USA

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