Subject: [Shop-talk] Fluorescent lights (I need help here)

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 19:57:28 -0400 7.0.1|January 17, 2006) at 03/13/2013 19:56:28, Serialize complete at 03/13/2013 19:56:28

OK, I know we beat this horse to death, and I thought I understood it, but 
I guess i didn't.

Here is the situation, I need to add lighting for the shop. I'm replacing 
two- 4' fluorescent fixtures.  The ceiling is at 14'  and the area I want 
to light in front of where I work on cars.  So I figured I would add four- 
4' fluorescent light fixtures in a "U" shape around the area.  (Think of a 
parked car...  One light on each side of the front 1/4 panels and two 
perpendicular to the front of the car so the lights are wrapped around the 
front end.)

I wanted the brightest fluorescent lights I could find.  I hung 32watt, 
dual bulb T8 fixtures with 6500 Lumens about 1' down from the ceiling (so 
about 13' off the ground, I need it them this high for clearance issues.)

Anyway, I turned them on and I was quite disappointed.  So disappointed 
that I hooked up my old 4' fluorescent fixtures with unknown T12 bulbs and 
wattage.  The different was huge!  The new lights were nothing compared to 
the old ones.

My question is...

I want the brightest fluorescent fixtures I can get.  I don't care if they 
are 4' or 8'.  What fixture (wattage and "T" value) do I get  and what 
bulbs do I put in them.

These lights are on for most of the time I'm in my shop, so I don't want 
anything that sucks electricity, but I will if I have to.

Thanks again!

Eric P
"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational 
being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph 
Waldo Emerson 
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From: Steven Trovato <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 20:18:28 -0400

New fluorescent tubes require a "break in" period to achieve full 
brightness.  Did you leave them on for a while before you judged them 
inadequate?

-Steve Trovato
[email-masked]

[email-masked]

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From: Randall <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 0:38:49 +0000

> I hung 32watt, 
> dual bulb T8 fixtures with 6500 Lumens 

I think there must be some mistake here.  Are you sure that isn't color temperature (K) instead of lumens?  The highest output 32 watt T8 bulb I could find is only rated at 2950 lumens (so 5900 for the pair).

Did they have reflectors?  Easy way to nearly double the amount of light where you want it.

To get the light, you're going to have to run the power.  Brightest for it's length would be a T12 HO (high output) bulb, at 60 watts for a 48".  An 8' HO T12 would give you about twice as much light, for twice as much power.

I have (5) 8' 2-bulb fixtures to cover my 2 car bays, but they are only about 8' from the floor.  You'll need more with them up at 13'.

Randall

[email-masked]

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From: Randy <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 20:08:27 -0500

If you are buying new fixtures I'd go with either the T5 or T8. The T12 are being phased out and are less efficient.Doug Braun <[email-masked]> wrote:I have a pair of fixtures that take 8-foot T12 HO bulbs (which have a
different type of pins at each end).
They are real bright.B  Last year I found reasonably-priced GE electronic
ballasts to replaced the original magnetic ones, and now they start right
up in winter weather, and are totally silent.

But I suspect that these types of fixtures are being phased out.

Doug

>> two- 4' fluorescent fixtures.B  The ceiling is at 14'B  and the area I want
>> to light in front of where I work on cars.B  So I figured I would add four-
>> 4' fluorescent light fixtures in a "U" shape around the area.B  (Think of a
>> parked car...B  One light on each side of the front 1/4 panels and two
>> I wanted the brightest fluorescent lights I could find.B  I hung 32watt,
>> Anyway, I turned them on and I was quite disappointed.B  So disappointed
>> wattage.B  The different was huge!B  The new lights were nothing compared to
>> the old ones.

[email-masked]

[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 18:10:54 -0400 7.0.1|January 17, 2006) at 03/14/2013 18:10:54, Serialize complete at 03/14/2013 18:10:54

Steven writes...

>brightness.  Did you leave them on for a while before you judged them 

I never heard this.  How long are we talking?

Eric P

[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 18:12:35 -0400 7.0.1|January 17, 2006) at 03/14/2013 18:12:31, Serialize complete at 03/14/2013 18:12:31

Randall asks,

>Are you sure that isn't color temperature (K) instead of lumens? 

Yes, I had that confused?  I see this is going to take a return trip to 
Lowes to get better lights.

Thanks again guys

Eric P

[email-masked]

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From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 22:27:40 -0700

> 12 to 24 hours.  It's particularly important with dimming 
> ballasts, because improper burn in leads to greatly reduced 
> lamp life.  Proper burn in increases lamp life, increases 
> output, and decreases warm up time.

Seems to be a lot of variation in recommendations.  Philips and GE claim at
least some of their bulbs don't require burn-in
http://goo.gl/pW84Z
http://goo.gl/mhqrI
While Osram suggests 100 hours, not just 12 to 24
http://goo.gl/3mYtq

But I couldn't find anything to suggest that light output rises after
burn-in; in fact it drops somewhat from "initial" lumens to "design" lumens.
It also applies only to bulbs that will be dimmed, which I doubt Inch is
planning to do.

Randall

[email-masked]

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From: Steven Trovato <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 07:44:58 -0400

My personal experience is that if I replace the tubes in one fixture, 
it will appear noticeably less bright at first.  An hour later, it 
will look like the others.  I don't know how long it takes to 
actually reach full brightness in scientific terms.  I just know that 
if I judged them by the first five minutes, I'd be taking them back 
for a refund.  And this is with Walmart shoplights, Philips bulbs, no 
dimmers.

-Steve Trovato
[email-masked]

[email-masked]