Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] turn off the bubble machine

From: "Al Fuller" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2013 10:52:46 -0400

Roland [and all]:

Did you ever determine the source of the air bubbles in your water system?

I too have a well and softened system, and have air in the lines.  It
appears to be getting worse, progressing from a mere nuisance to having a
functional impact on the system [eg, the volume of water getting to toilet
tanks appears lower now, as does the ability to the 'power flush' toilets to
work...]

In my case the water heater is gas, not electric.  There are two heaters
installed, but IIRC, only one is working.

Any help will be appreciated.

Al Fuller
al at bighealey dot org
'62 BT-7
'65 BJ-8
'85 Rx-7

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked]
[mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Roland Wilhelmy
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 1:04 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [Shop-talk] turn off the bubble machine

Ever since I had a new electric water heater installed there has been "air"
in the water lines.  This is long after the tank has been filled and all the
air bled out of the system.  Every time that we draw hot water after it has
been unused for 8 hours or more, just as the water from the tap turns hot a
whole lot of "air" bubbles out too over the next minute or so of flow.

Has anyone on the list encountered this?  I assume that some sort of
electrolytic reaction is generating the "air".  A google search didn't come
up with anything beside that fact that sacrificial anodes are attacked more
fiercely if the tank is supplied with soft water.
Something about the salt.  But nothing about anything generating all this
"air".  We do have softened water.

I am going to call the plumbers who installed the heater but I would feel
better if I had some idea of what is going on before I call them.

-Roland
_______________________________________________

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]
_______________________________________________

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

---

From: Roland Wilhelmy <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2013 13:50:15 -0700

Al (et al.)-

My air in the water lines problem gradually went away.  Now I don't
know if the problem was electrolysis and it stopped cuz there wasn't
any more stuff to eat away or if the air came from some place beside
the water supply.  Since I have a service contract on the water heater
I am just going to watch and wait.  I tried to ignite the 'air' coming
out of the tap but could not.  This suggests that whatever the source
of the gas it isn't from breaking down water into hydrogen and oxygen.

I wish I could give you more help.  Do gas water heaters have
sacrificial rods?  If so you could pull them and see if they are being
destroyed more rapidly than normal.  Could you remove the second water
heater from the plumbing and see if that helps?

-Roland

On Sat, 16 Mar 2013 10:52:46 -0400, you wrote:

::Roland [and all]:
::
::Did you ever determine the source of the air bubbles in your water system?
::
::I too have a well and softened system, and have air in the lines.  It
::appears to be getting worse, progressing from a mere nuisance to having a
::functional impact on the system [eg, the volume of water getting to toilet
::tanks appears lower now, as does the ability to the 'power flush' toilets
to
::work...]
::
::In my case the water heater is gas, not electric.  There are two heaters
::installed, but IIRC, only one is working.
::
::Any help will be appreciated.
::
::Al Fuller
::al at bighealey dot org
::'62 BT-7
::'65 BJ-8
::'85 Rx-7
_______________________________________________

[email-masked]

---

From: "Al Fuller" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2013 10:21:12 -0400

Thanks Roland:

Yes, gas heaters DO have sacrificial rods, but I agree with Paul that the
rod is unlikely to make the volume of bubbles I'm seeing.

I will have to go back to square one and try to diagnose it...  One thought
is the water table may have dropped down a bit, and the pump is sucking up
some air with the water.

Al Fuller
al at bighealey dot org
'62 BT-7
'65 BJ-8
'85 Rx-7

-----Original Message-----
From: Roland Wilhelmy [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 4:50 PM
To: Al Fuller
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] turn off the bubble machine

Al (et al.)-

My air in the water lines problem gradually went away.  Now I don't know if
the problem was electrolysis and it stopped cuz there wasn't any more stuff
to eat away or if the air came from some place beside the water supply.
Since I have a service contract on the water heater I am just going to watch
and wait.  I tried to ignite the 'air' coming out of the tap but could not.
This suggests that whatever the source of the gas it isn't from breaking
down water into hydrogen and oxygen.

I wish I could give you more help.  Do gas water heaters have sacrificial
rods?  If so you could pull them and see if they are being destroyed more
rapidly than normal.  Could you remove the second water heater from the
plumbing and see if that helps?

-Roland

::Roland [and all]:
::
to ::work...]

[email-masked]

---

From: Benjamin Zwissler <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2013 12:39:53 -0400

The only source of air I've had in my home plumbing was found to be the
water softener.  I had a Sears Kenmore and eventually determined that every
time it 'recycled' it let some air in the system.  I'd get a spitting sink
or shower the morning after.  As I investigated what to I was told that the
Kenmore (and most of the consumer brands like Morton, etc.) use the same
'inexpensive' valve/control.  I was told to buy one that uses a Fleck
controller which is the same brand that Culligan softeners use.  Many
softener supply places on the web say the same thing.

Being a cheap bastard, I rebuilt the Kenmore control valve assembly and
that improved it for a while.  Then I put up with the air until the Kenmore
quit working for the 3rd time and I internet ordered a softener with a
Fleck controller.  Its been six months with no air and no issues.  Not much
time yet, but this unit appears much better made and I know I had to fix
something every couple years with the Kenmore. I've been told to expect it
to work trouble free for 10 years or more.  We'll see.

Anyway,  I believe I saw in the earlier posts that there was also a
softener installed so thought this might be relevant.  There's not many
others ways to get air into the plumbing.

Ben......

On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 10:21 AM, Al Fuller <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]

[email-masked]