Subject: [Shop-talk] camry hybrids

From: Tim <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:43:34 -0500 (EST)

Looking for people's feedback, input, experiences, etc on camry hybrids. 
I know literally nothing about hybirds and always like the info, etc I 
read here.

My wife read 150K mileage battery life. Does anyone know if this is this 
actually accurate? I've read battery replacement costs from $3K to $5K. 
Anyone have any experience replacing a camry battery?

Thanks
tim
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From: Tim <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 21:13:42 -0500 (EST)

OH yea, we are looking at an 07 with 143K on it. We can't afford a lower 
mileage car but have no choice--we have to buy something. The wife 
totaled her car Saturday and we have to have two cars.

On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 7:43 PM, Tim wrote:

> Looking for people's feedback, input, experiences, etc on camry 
> hybrids. I know literally nothing about hybirds and always like the 
> info, etc I read here.
>
> My wife read 150K mileage battery life. Does anyone know if this is 
> this actually accurate? I've read battery replacement costs from $3K 
> to $5K. Anyone have any experience replacing a camry battery?
>
> Thanks
> tim
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]

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From: "Eric J Russell" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 21:33:08 -0500 a=P2oOn6vrs4wA:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=S2wpYzp2RsyRkoRNwqcm1Q==:17 a=9hz1sfIYevUganGKg38A:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=S2wpYzp2RsyRkoRNwqcm1Q==:117 reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0

I don't see the 'bottom line' advantage of the hybrids. The added cost is 
not usually offset by any fuel savings until gas gets over $5.00/gallon.

Our 2006 Camry Solara with 4 cylinder engine easily gets 35+ mpg. A friend 
has two Corolla's (one manual trans, one auto trans). He easily gets ~ 40 
mpg in mixed city/highway.

Eric Russell
Mebane, NC

----- Original Message ----- 

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From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 06:52:57 -0800

> Mileage is obviously highly dependent on personal driving 
> habits, but I think that's even more a factor for a 
> Toyota-style hybrid.

A good friend of mine has owned several Priuses (or whatever the plural is).
He claimed to routinely get over 50 mpg on his commute to work (in LA
traffic but in the carpool lane), while his "leadfoot" wife only gets around
40.  He once borrowed my wagon for a few days and I got to drive his 1st gen
Prius; my average was 48.2 (according to the onboard computer) just driving
somewhat conservatively (no hypermiling or anything like that) on my usual
mix of surface and freeway.

But maintenance costs have been high, particularly tires (which are a
special high load capacity, low rolling resistance construction that wears
out quickly); the high voltage battery has already failed once (although
after some fighting with Toyota, he got them to cover half of the $7k
replacement cost); and it was going to cost some $500 to replace the AC
condenser.

So when the carpool sticker expired last year, he traded the Prius on a
Leaf.  He really likes it, but just last week he was talking about how he
couldn't get to work and back with the headlights, wipers and heater all
running.

The silly mileage claims for plug-in hybrids (and full electrics) depend
heavily on what equivalence you choose between kWh and gallons.  They tend
to fall apart when you use your actual marginal cost for the electricity (I
only pay about $.16/kWh on average, but the last kWh each month costs more
like $.33) and factor in things like the cost of the charging station.

YMMV and all that.
-- Randall 

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From: Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 17:08:39 +0000 (UTC)

+1 

-------------------------------- 
Bob Spidell - San Jose, CA 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Rambour" <[email-masked]> 
To: [email-masked] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 8:47:39 AM 
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] camry hybrids 

Hybrids are nice, a friend owns a Prius and while there was nothing 
wrong his 3 year old one, he traded it in on a new one a month ago. He 
wanted the "cooler" that tries to keep the interior cool while the car 
is parked at work, some kind of fan that exhausts the hot air. That was 
it, that is why he traded in his 3 year old car. He gets great mileage 
with the car and brags about it all the time, he works 6 miles from home 
and drives about 7,000 miles a year based on the mileage of his trade 
in. If you amortize the cost of the car, the MPG costs get pretty high. 

But they are NOT for me! 

I firmly believe life is too short to not drive the car you want, I 
get 14MPG when I am lucky and if I didn't need to hear that 3.6l V8 
screaming at 8,000RPM inches behind me, I might get better mileage but I 
can't stop listening to it. When my friend drives with me, we get to 
work with huge smiles and start off the workday with a smile, no matter 
how bad a day I had at work, just walking out to the parking lot and 
seeing my car lifts my spirits, fire it up and my smile is back. We 
don't have that smile in his car. When my wife first drove my car to 
her work (local high school) she said it was surprising to her how much 
more she enjoyed the drive both to work and then home. But she does not 
drive it to work often, the kids pay too much attention to the car and 
she is afraid it will get scratched if she pisses one of them off, so 
she only drives it work maybe 2-3 times a month. 

A Prius and other hybrids are get from point-a to point-b appliances 
but life is too short for that type of living, life is all about getting 
to point-b from point-a via point-c and maybe even point-d. I am a 
15,000-20,000 miles per year kind of guy, it may be 6 miles to work, but 
its often 40+ miles over the mountain roads to get home and then there 
is the weekends :) 

To each his own, some people are all about the maximum MPG no matter 
what the initial cost of the car is, others are all about the maximum 
SPG (smiles per gallon). 

Mike 

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From: Tim <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 13:29:54 -0500 (EST)

Thanks for some of what was replied to me. As the other stuff that 
didn't help with my inquiry, well, you know what to do.

As for toyota comfort, our recently wrecked 01 avalon was a rocket ship 
(even after 175k miles) and very very comfortable, even when three of 
four passengers were 6'0" or better, myself being 6'5".

tim

On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 8:13 PM, Tim wrote:

> OH yea, we are looking at an 07 with 143K on it. We can't afford a 
> lower mileage car but have no choice--we have to buy something. The 
> wife totaled her car Saturday and we have to have two cars.
>
>

[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 18:31:06 +0000 (UTC)

> The other thing to do is just ignore the hybrids and get a regular car
> that
> gets good mileage.

The important factor here is how you are going to drive a car.  If you spend a lot of time on the freeway in normal traffic, the hybrid is a waste of money.  Any cheap econobox is gong to do better than hybrids in overall costs.

If you spend all your time in short trips around town and sitting in traffic-jams in nice weather, the hybrid is the way to go.  A plug-in hybrid even better.

Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA
1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue
2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red, the only automatic of the bunch
2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl
2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4, Berry Red
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier
http://www.flickr.com/groups/triumphtransamerica
http://www.mnautox.com
http://www.mntriumphs.org
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From: Tim <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 18:18:42 -0500 (EST)

A $112K LOANER vehicle? holllyy crap and WTF?

On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Mike Rambour wrote:

> I am sure it did not take a week but my dealer is 110 miles away, so I 
> dropped off my car on Saturday and picked it up next Saturday.
>
>  And, the Porsche was a 2012 model with 718 miles on it when I took it 
> and the window sticker in the glovebox said $122k MSRP, I WAS living 
> in a different universe that entire week. They have 5 of them for 
> loaners, 3 hybrids, 2 non hybrids, my wife chose it based on color 
> nothing else.
>
>     mike
>
> On 01/29/2013 02:08 PM, Steven Trovato wrote:
>> My first thought was wow, it takes a week to do maintenance and ball 
>> joints?  My second thought was wow, you get a Porsche as a loaner?  I 
>> guess I live in a different universe.
>>
>> -Steve Trovato
>> [email-masked]
>>
>> At 01:12 PM 1/29/2013, Mike Rambour wrote:
>>>  When my car was in the shop for its annual maintenance and new 
>>> front ball joints, they gave me a Porsche Panamera Hybrid to drive 
>>> for the week, it was a nice car but still not fun to drive.
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 18:15:21 -0500 7.0.1|January 17, 2006) at 01/29/2013 18:15:23, Serialize complete at 01/29/2013 18:15:23

OK, first, I want to go on record saying that hybrids are the worst of two 
worlds.  They are not an answer and they are only a knee-jerk reaction to 
high fuel prices.

I had a 1991 Mercedes 190D that got 40MPG.  That's right, in the 90's I 
was getting in the 40's.  Then, Americans suddenly decided that they 
needed their heads thrown back in the seats and the US Diesel car was 
dead.

That car was a DREAM to drive.  It was smooth as warm butter.  It got to 
100mph and you would never feel it.  It was a daily driver, but wouldn't 
be out of place at a super fancy restaurant or wedding.  The only problem 
was that it had abysmal 0-60 times  (I used to measure it with a 
calendar!)  8>)

With those two things said, I also want to chime in with 'total cost' 
calculations.  First, I need a work truck, so I had the 190D and a work 
truck.  It was a great combo, but when you factor in the dual maintenance 
costs, dual insurance / registration costs, double parking spaces (I 
garage keep everything) etc, there was no savings with the high milage 
40MPG over a since 18MPG truck.

I just bought a Envoy XUV and it's got the smile factor for sure.  It has 
a HUGE fuel tank, so I fill up about the same amount to times, but with 
much more fuel.  (Note, I drive VERY fast, 80MPH is normal.) so I only get 
about 15MPG.

When I was driving my last truck (2001 Ford Explorer) reasonably, I was 
getting almost 18-20MPG  (mostly highway.)

So, if you are curious about fuel costs and savings, here is a quick 
comparison tool I whipped up years ago when I was having a discussion with 
a fellow Soldier about the actually savings over a year based on gas 
prices...

here is the link...  (Which I just noticed only works with IE and not 
Chome (which I'll fix later))
http://www.megageek.com/gas/Page1.htm

You'll be surprised that it's not much difference.

BTW, the Ford Explorer is up for sale on ebay right now.  There is nothing 
wrong with it (less the minor things listed in the listing.)  If you want 
a $X$ for less than $2500, here is your chance...  8>)

>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2001-Ford-Explorer-XLT-Sport-Utility-4-Door-4-0L-DRIVE-MOON-/271145902926?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item3f218e234e<

It's item # 271145902926  if the link doesn't work...

Eric P
"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational 
being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph 
Waldo Emerson 
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From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 18:59:19 -0500 7.0.1|January 17, 2006) at 01/29/2013 18:59:19, Serialize complete at 01/29/2013 18:59:19

OPPS, I forgot that I added a reserve!  Thanks for pointing it out.  I 
fixed it now.

Eric P

You are a marketing genius!  You make incredibly high mileage sound 
like a feature!  I also notice the big red NO RESERVE at the top of 
the text.  But then it says "reserve not met" up by the 
bid.  Seriously though, it looks like a very nice truck, and it 
should be a great buy for the right person.

-Steve Trovato
[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 00:57:58 +0000 (UTC)

> Phil can just post
> for
> me from now on.

LOL!

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