Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] radio/tv sync?

From: Mark J Bradakis <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 17:23:07 -0700

Tim wrote:
> As you all know, there is a pretty significant delay between radio and
> TV when watching a football game.
>
> Is there a way to sync the radio and TV broadcasts of a sporting event?
>
>

Probably not easy.  One could pipe the audio from the radio into a computer
that was running a X second delay program if such exists.

I remember years ago when the Utah Jazz were playing in the NBA finals 
against
the Bulls.  It was funny to have the radio I was listening to being 
about a second
ahead of what was on the screen.  You'd know if the basket was made 
before the
guy took the shot!

mjb.
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From: Matt Wehland <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 22:47:25 -0600

Ok a quick search turned this up-
    http://www.fountainware.com/Products/AudioDelay/index.htm
or
    http://www.daansystems.com/radiodelay/
No Idea if they work.

-----------------------

When I worked with MLB.com this was a real problem.
Sometimes we would get audio not in sync from the broadcast truck.
There solutions ranged from ten's of thousands of dollars (could only 
delay audio, not video) to a custom million + dollar A/V router system 
that had audio/video delays built in for just this problem (and many others)

You basically need a program/hardware that will delay the audio 
(normally ahead of video) or delay the video (not often the issue) and 
then manually sync them up and hope the delay doesn't change for the 
duration of the event.

Heck just try having 2 TV's on cable, one HD one SD, there is normally a 
significant delay between the 2 boxes on the order of a second or more 
on the local cable system.
Makes it funny listening to the neighbors scream for a play a second or 
more apart.
Even worse if the 2 TV's are in the same room/house.

Useless knowledge Alert-
In the old analog video days it was standard practice to use long runs 
of cable (100's of feet) to time the delay of video signals through 
different pieces of equipment.
Also had to be sure to keep the RGB signal cables the same length or you 
ran into color shifts.

Sorry I can't be of more help.

On 12/30/2012 5:56 PM, Tim wrote:
> Thanks
> tim
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-- 
Matt Wehland
(815) 549-1502
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From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 00:07:50 -0600

On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 10:47 PM, Matt Wehland <[email-masked]> wrote:
> There solutions ranged from ten's of thousands of dollars (could only delay
> audio, not video) to a custom million + dollar A/V router system that had
> audio/video delays built in for just this problem (and many others)
>
> You basically need a program/hardware that will delay the audio (normally
> ahead of video) or delay the video (not often the issue) and then manually
> sync them up and hope the delay doesn't change for the duration of the
> event.
>
> significant delay between the 2 boxes on the order of a second or more on
> the local cable system.

When I lived in northern Indiana, most of the sports bars had both
cable and satellite service, because one considered Chicago the local
market, the other detroit, which changed which games were available.
So it was not unusual when they were showing the same thing on all of
them to have half tuned to one source, the other half to the other
source.  One would be two to five seconds ahead of the other.  You
could tell when important plays were made, just by watching the heads
move to the delayed screens.  Somewhat surprisingly, the delays
weren't constant, they'd change over the course of a football game.

 A lot of the delay is inherent in digital television.  Not only are
there encoding and delays (which make it lag behind the non digital
version, were the non-digital version actually broadcast.  it's not,
so it's really the digital signal, decoded, converted, and
retransmitted, so it's often behind on cable), there's an error
recovery buffer (two sorts, one built into the format, the other into
the hardware.) and the speed of the hardware.  There's also often a
satellite hop (or two, rarely three), good for a third of a second or
more each.   Radio is just audio, even if it gets turned into digital
signals, the conversion overhead is a lot lower.  (I know at least
some of the network feeds are now over the internet, essentially
guaranteeing they're not over a satellite link, too.)

> Makes it funny listening to the neighbors scream for a play a second or more
> apart.
> In the old analog video days it was standard practice to use long runs of
> cable (100's of feet) to time the delay of video signals through different
> pieces of equipment.

Some of the first computer memory used audio pulses sent through
mercury tubes.  you knew how long it took for sound to travel the
tube, so you knew when you'd have to listen for it.  Required constant
refreshing, and wasn't random access, but it worked, and the
technology already existed.  It's a variation of the technique to
remove the signals from fixed objects from early radar screens.
Compare two successive scans,  anthing with the same delay isn't
moving, and can be ignored.

-- 
David Scheidt
[email-masked]

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From: "Jack Brooks" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 22:30:07 -0800

Just watch the video and listen to the non-video presentations.  It's a lot
more exciting that way.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked]
[mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Tim
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 3:57 PM
To: Shop Talk
Subject: [Shop-talk] radio/tv sync?

Thanks
tim

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