Subject: [Shop-talk] wiring question

From: Tim <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 14:11:31 -0400 (EDT)

since electrickery is my most weak point I figure I should ask this 
really dumb question:

I want to wire in an aftermarket horn on my Jeep. The wires that came 
with the swith are 16 gauge. The Fuse link I bought to wire into this 
set up is a thicker gauge.

Is this ok?

Thanks!

tim
_______________________________________________

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Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 14:25:10 -0400

If you are asking is it OK to use the heavier gauge wire - yes. But the 
fuse should be sized to protect the weakest link - either the switch, 
horn or the 16 ga wire. 

Eric Russell
Mebane, NC

[email-masked]

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From: Tim <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 14:56:52 -0400 (EDT)

Thanks for the quick replies guys.

The instructions say use a 20 amp fuse which is what I bought.

Now one more quick one....

There is two prong male connection coming off of part of the ignition 
swith...one to the wiper and one to an aftermarket fuel gauge.

Can I turn this into a three prong connector and add the horn power lead 
to this? I would rather not run a wire to the battery (like the 
instructions say since the engine bay is so clean right now).

Thanks again!!
tim

On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 1:11 PM, Tim wrote:

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From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 12:14:11 -0700

> to this?

I would suggest not drawing horn power through the ignition contacts.  Look
for an "always hot" connection with heavy wire to it, like maybe the input
side of the ignition switch.

-- Randall  

[email-masked]

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From: Tim <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 16:18:19 -0400 (EDT)

Thanks all.

The horn button that was suggested for use with this horn (by 
summitracing staffer) came with 16 ga wire so I have to assume that that 
light of a ga is ok.

For now, so I have a working horn, I powered this thing from the 
ignition switch area. The vehicle (a 71 gladiator) has been somewhat 
(read POORLY here) restored by a previous idiot :-O and has new wiring 
so I think I will be ok for until I can run power from a permanent 
source.

Now to tackle the missing vacuum bits for the environmentals.

Thanks again all!!
tim

On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 2:20 PM, Wayne wrote:

> Not a dumb question at all. Neither of us bothered to look it up on 
> the 'net, but right off, I'd say 16 ga is too light. Wire gauge 
> requirements are based on current, not voltage and I'd guess 12 or 14 
> ga would be appropriate. Low voltage systems are less efficient at 
> transferring energy, and to drive the same power into a device at only 
> 13-ish volts, you need proportionately more current and havier gauge 
> wire than what you'd use in your home at 120V. That's why power 
> company mains are cranked up to thousands or hundreds of thousands of 
> volts for the long haul, then knocked down with a local transformer.
>
> OTOH, you're presumably not gonna use it that often, and then only for 
> a couple seconds at a time max, so you can probably get a way with the 
> light gauge stuff. Wouldn't do it for a constant draw, like lights 
> however.
>
> -Wayne
>
>
> On 8/19/2012 2:11 PM, Tim wrote:

[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 16:30:23 -0400

Clarify: I saw 'fuse link' and thought a length of wire with an in-line 
fuse holder (replaceble fuse). A 'fusible link' is a length of wire 
that is meant to melt & break the connection in the event of an 
overload. 

What you want (I assume) is an in-line fuse, not a fusible link. 

Eric Russell
Mebane, NC

> Not really.  The fusible link will not protect the wire.  Either use larger
> wire or a smaller link. 

[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 16:33:39 -0400

True. Ideally you might want to power the horn with a relay - use the 
switch to control the relay. Short relatively large gauge wires deliver 
power to the relay & then to the horn. The light gauge (& likley 
longer) wires are used only to trigger the relay. 

Eric Russell
Mebane, NC

Quoting Wayne <[email-masked]>:
> Not a dumb question at all. Neither of us bothered to look it up on the
> 'net, but right off, I'd say 16 ga is too light. 

[email-masked]

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From: Tim <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 16:39:44 -0400 (EDT)

Yea, I have a 20 amp inline fuse. Sorry for the NooB confusion!
tim

On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 3:30 PM, [email-masked] wrote:

> Clarify: I saw 'fuse link' and thought a length of wire with an 
> in-line fuse holder (replaceble fuse). A 'fusible link' is a length of 
> wire that is meant to melt & break the connection in the event of an 
> overload. What you want (I assume) is an in-line fuse, not a fusible 
> link. Eric Russell
> Mebane, NC
>

[email-masked]

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From: Tim <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 18:52:16 -0400 (EDT)

What is the thought process behind the relay being close to hte horn? 
And how close does close need to be?

Thanks

On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 5:29 PM, John Niolon wrote:

> Tim,
>
> this might work well for you...
>
> http://jniolon.classicpickup.com/horn.jpg
>
> john
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim" <[email-masked]>
> To: <[email-masked]>
> Cc: "Randall" <[email-masked]>; <[email-masked]>
> Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 3:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] wiring question
>
>
>>> in-line fuse holder (replaceble fuse). A 'fusible link' is a length 
>>> of wire that is meant to melt & break the connection in the event of 
>>> an overload. What you want (I assume) is an in-line fuse, not a 
>>> fusible link. Eric Russell
>>> Mebane, NC
>>>
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]

[email-masked]

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From: Tim <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 18:53:07 -0400 (EDT)

Yes, eventually. for now I just need one that works.

On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 5:48 PM, Ronnie Day wrote:

> Wouldn't you want the horn button "hot" all of the time? I don't 
> remember
> ever seeing a switched horn circuit.
>
> RD
>
> On Sunday, August 19, 2012, Jeff Scarbrough wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 6:29 PM, John Niolon 
>> <[email-masked]<javascript:;>>
>> wrote:
>>>
>> You will, of course, want a fuse between the battery and the relay...
>>
>> Jeff Scarbrough
>> Corrosion Acres, Ga.
>> [email-masked] <javascript:;>
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/[email-masked]

[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 19:03:59 -0400

1) Shorter wires do need to be as heavy a gauge as longer wires for the 
same current carrying capacity. 

B) As close as practical. A few feet of wire is fine. Ten feet or so 
would need a wire gauge increase. A hundred feet is right out!

Eric Russell
Mebane, NC

[email-masked]

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From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 16:40:51 -0700

> summitracing staffer) came with 16 ga wire so I have to 

Or they may have assumed that you would use a horn relay.  Practically all
modern cars do, and it's a very worthwhile modification to older cars.

-- Randall  

[email-masked]

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From: Wayne <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 07:25:47 -0400

On 8/19/2012 6:52 PM, Tim wrote:
> What is the thought process behind the relay being close to the horn?

It's basically a remote control switch. It lets you run low voltage / 
low current wiring to a remote switch [eg: on your dashboard or steering 
column] of modest capacity, and switch a device of much higher from a 
distance. With large enough gauge wire, it doesn't have to be close, but 
generally, the idea is to minimize the heavy-gauge wiring distance.

If you wanna go on the cheap  -- I've been a Nissan guy for a long time. 
There is a very standard "blue relay" used for the last 20+ years. You 
can probably chop one and a socket out of about any scrap yard Nissan. 
Might be cheaper than the FLAPS. Who seem to be charging more & more for 
their crap parts every day. Kinda sad I can order Brembo BMW rotors from 
Amazon.com and pay shipping on 40 lbs of parts for less than I can score 
junk locally.

-Wayne

[email-masked]