Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB carb question

From: David Councill <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2023 10:52:48 -0700

This is a set of HS4s. The float bowl lid indicates a later version 
(early 70s). I see a tag on the front carb but can't read the number. 
That would give you the exact model - AUD followed by three digits. I 
see a lot wrong in the picture. I can't find any of my carb pictures, 
but I'll take a few pictures later today if no one else responds.

David Councill

64B, 72B, 67 BGT

On 4/10/2023 8:50 AM, dave northrup wrote:

> These carbs are on an mgb engine in an mga.  We acquired this project 
> in kit form so I'm not sure what i have.
>
> I suspect these are mga carbs?
>
> And i don't know what to connect where.   The engine runs as is but 
> I'm sure I'm missing something.  (Little joke there).
>
> Can someone send me a picture and/or help me out?
>
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From: dave northrup <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2023 20:01:08 +0000

You just fill up the float bowls with gas.  Then the engine will run on its own for a bit until they run out

-----Original Message-----
From: Max Heim <[email-masked]> 
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2023 11:56 AM
To: dave northrup <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB carb question

The engine runs with no fuel inlet hose to the carburetors?

You might want to take out a patent on that...

--
Max Heim
'66 MGB

> On Apr 10, 2023, at 8:50 AM, dave northrup <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> These carbs are on an mgb engine in an mga.  We acquired this project in kit form so I'm not sure what i have. 
> 
> And i don't know what to connect where.   The engine runs as is but I'm sure I'm missing something.  (Little joke there).
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation  
> $12.75
> 
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]

[email-masked]

---

From: Max Heim <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2023 16:21:15 -0700

Yeah, but there was no throttle cable, either, so it wouldn’t go very fast. 

--
Max Heim
'66 MGB

> On Apr 10, 2023, at 1:01 PM, dave northrup <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 

[email-masked]

---

From: "Hans Duinhoven" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2023 18:15:03 +0200 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003B_01D96CA1.89D54450"

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Here=E2=80=99s a picture of the rear HS4 carb in my 1971 BGT.

Looks very similar to yours.

=20

Cheers,

Hans

=20

Van: Mgs <[email-masked]> Namens dave northrup
Verzonden: Monday, 10 April 2023 17:50
Aan: [email-masked]
Onderwerp: [Mgs] MGB carb question

=20

These carbs are on an mgb engine in an mga.  We acquired this project in =
kit form so I'm not sure what i have. =20

=20

=20

And i don't know what to connect where.   The engine runs as is but I'm =
sure I'm missing something.  (Little joke there).

=20

=20

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class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Here=E2=80=99s a picture of the =
rear HS4 carb in my 1971 BGT.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Looks very similar to =
yours.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hans<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><di=
v style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>Van:</b> Mgs =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; <b>Namens </b>dave =
northrup<br><b>Verzonden:</b> Monday, 10 April 2023 17:50<br><b>Aan:</b> =
[email-masked]<br><b>Onderwerp:</b> [Mgs] MGB carb =
question<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>These carbs =
are on an mgb engine in an mga.&nbsp; We acquired this project in kit =
form so I'm not sure what i have.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I =
suspect these are mga carbs?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>And i don't know what to connect where.&nbsp; =
&nbsp;The engine runs as is but I'm sure I'm missing something.&nbsp; =
(Little joke there).<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Can someone send me a picture and/or help me =
out?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div></body></html>
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[email-masked]

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From: Larry Colen <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2023 10:57:21 -0700

Note the hose on top of the manifold where on Dave’s it is just open to the air.  

Also note that one of Dave’s float has three connections, one is for fuel in from the pump, one is for fuel to the other carb, and one is for ventilation.  I have mixed up the fuel in and vent lines and things have not worked well.

> On Apr 11, 2023, at 9:15 AM, Hans Duinhoven <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> Here’s a picture of the rear HS4 carb in my 1971 BGT.
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]

--
Larry Colen
[email-masked]  sent from ret13est

[email-masked]

---

From: David Councill <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2023 10:59:45 -0700

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I managed to get a picture of my 72B setup (engine/carbs from a 71BGT) 
that shows some relevant connections, that I have attached.

Now on the original picture, I noticed a number of issues which I will 
describe, starting from the engine and working out.

The intake manifold where you have looped in two ports - the rear port 
should have a nipple to connect a vacuum tube to the distributor. Other 
port should be blocked using a fastener.

On the engine side of the carbs, each carb should have a port (5/16") to 
pull in crankcase gasses. This uses rubber tubing and a plastic-Y piece 
to then connect to the crankcase side cover. Moss shows this here:

https://mossmotors.com/mgb-017-emission-system-controls-1970-74

The front linkage for the choke - your picture shows it near the rear 
carb, should be moved towards the front carb. That is because the choke 
cable will connect to Moss 372-340 bracket so that brass lever needs to 
be close to the bracket.

And finally, the float bowl covers - they are reversed in your picture. 
The three port cover is for the front carb. That is because the 70-71 Bs 
had a steel fuel line running towards the front of the car and the fuel 
line ran off of it. Then you have another port to run a fuel line 
between the two carbs. The overflow port should point out away from the 
engine/carb. The 70-71B would run lines from these two overflows back to 
a charcoal canister. Since you are using the engine/carbs in a MGA, you 
could use the earlier piping method used on the 62-67 MGB. These are 
steel tubing bent downwards so that the tubes divert petrol overflows to 
the ground. There is a bracket that holds them to the engine block, 
available from Moss.

Steel tuning is part 67 - https://mossmotors.com/mgb-020-hs4-carburetor

No longer available but you can make your own which is what I did on my 64B.

I am not sure where the MGA fuel line would be to connect to the SU 
carb. If it is not practical to use the 71-72 method of fuel routing, 
you could use the 62-67 method, replacing the two port float cover with 
a 2 port and use a T fitting on the fuel line:

https://mossmotors.com/mgb-028-fuel-pipes-and-lines-1962-70

Hope this helps.

David Councill

64 B, 72B, 67BGT

> Can someone send me a picture and/or help me out?
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<html>
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  </head>
  <body>
    <p>I managed to get a picture of my 72B setup (engine/carbs from a
      71BGT) that shows some relevant connections, that I have attached.<br>
    </p>
    <p>Now on the original picture, I noticed a number of issues which I
      will describe, starting from the engine and working out.</p>
    <p>The intake manifold where you have looped in two ports - the rear
      port should have a nipple to connect a vacuum tube to the
      distributor. Other port should be blocked using a fastener.</p>
    <p>On the engine side of the carbs, each carb should have a port
      (5/16") to pull in crankcase gasses. This uses rubber tubing and a
      plastic-Y piece to then connect to the crankcase side cover. Moss
      shows this here:</p>
    <p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mossmotors.com/mgb-017-emission-system-controls-1970-74">https://mossmotors.com/mgb-017-emission-system-controls-1970-74</a><br>
    </p>
    <p>The front linkage for the choke - your picture shows it near the
      rear carb, should be moved towards the front carb. That is because
      the choke cable will connect to Moss 372-340 bracket so that brass
      lever needs to be close to the bracket.<br>
    </p>
    <p>And finally, the float bowl covers - they are reversed in your
      picture. The three port cover is for the front carb. That is
      because the 70-71 Bs had a steel fuel line running towards the
      front of the car and the fuel line ran off of it. Then you have
      another port to run a fuel line between the two carbs. The
      overflow port should point out away from the engine/carb. The
      70-71B would run lines from these two overflows back to a charcoal
      canister. Since you are using the engine/carbs in a MGA, you could
      use the earlier piping method used on the 62-67 MGB. These are
      steel tubing bent downwards so that the tubes divert petrol
      overflows to the ground. There is a bracket that holds them to the
      engine block, available from Moss.<br>
    </p>
    <p>Steel tuning is part 67 -
      <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mossmotors.com/mgb-020-hs4-carburetor">https://mossmotors.com/mgb-020-hs4-carburetor</a></p>
    <p>No longer available but you can make your own which is what I did
      on my 64B.<br>
    </p>
    <p>I am not sure where the MGA fuel line would be to connect to the
      SU carb. If it is not practical to use the 71-72 method of fuel
      routing, you could use the 62-67 method, replacing the two port
      float cover with a 2 port and use a T fitting on the fuel line:</p>
    <p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mossmotors.com/mgb-028-fuel-pipes-and-lines-1962-70">https://mossmotors.com/mgb-028-fuel-pipes-and-lines-1962-70</a></p>
    <p>Hope this helps. <br>
    </p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p>David Councill</p>
    <p>64 B, 72B, 67BGT<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/10/2023 8:50 AM, dave northrup
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      These carbs are on an mgb engine in an mga.  We acquired this
      project in kit form so I'm not sure what i have. 
      <div dir="auto"><br>
      </div>
      <div dir="auto">I suspect these are mga carbs?</div>
      <div dir="auto"><br>
      </div>
      <div dir="auto">And i don't know what to connect where.   The
        engine runs as is but I'm sure I'm missing something.  (Little
        joke there).</div>
      <div dir="auto"><br>
      </div>
      <div dir="auto">Can someone send me a picture and/or help me out?</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <img moz-do-not-send="false"
        src="cid:[email-masked]" alt=""
        width="1280" height="960"><br>
    </blockquote>
  </body>
</html>
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From: "Hans Duinhoven" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2023 21:21:34 +0200

That is so true Larry. 
I do not expect the HS4 carbs on Dave's engine will have the three connections.
These were released when the Evaporate Loss system was introduced in late 1968 I think. 
Anyway, in MGB's containing a charcoal filter cannister - the black cannister filtering the fuel vapours, rocker cover vapours and crankcase vapours. 
The HS4's in my 1971 GT still are the original ones - that latest MGB's equipped with HS4's. The 1972 models were equipped with HIF4 carbs. The HS4 carbs in my GT however already were equipped with "swing needles", which were standard in HIF4. 

Cheers,
Hans

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Larry Colen <[email-masked]> 
Verzonden: Tuesday, 11 April 2023 19:57
Aan: Hans Duinhoven <[email-masked]>
CC: dave northrup <[email-masked]>; [email-masked]
Onderwerp: Re: [Mgs] MGB carb question

[email-masked]

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2023 14:06:55 -0700

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You might also be getting an air leak through the pcv port on the intake ma=
nifold

On April 10, 2023 1:01:08 PM PDT, dave northrup <dave@ranteer=2Ecom> wrote=
:
>You just fill up the float bowls with gas=2E  Then the engine will run on=
 its own for a bit until they run out
>From: Max Heim <mvheim@sonic=2Enet>=20
>To: dave northrup <dave@ranteer=2Ecom>
>You might want to take out a patent on that=2E=2E=2E
>
>--
>Max Heim
>'66 MGB
>
>> On Apr 10, 2023, at 8:50 AM, dave northrup <dave@ranteer=2Ecom> wrote:
>>=20
>> These carbs are on an mgb engine in an mga=2E  We acquired this project=
 in kit form so I'm not sure what i have=2E=20
>> And i don't know what to connect where=2E   The engine runs as is but I=
'm sure I'm missing something=2E  (Little joke there)=2E
>> <20230410_102706=2Ejpg>_______________________________________________
>>=20
>> Mgs@autox=2Eteam=2Enet
>> Donate: http://www=2Eteam=2Enet/donate=2Ehtml Suggested annual donation=
 =20
>> $12=2E75
>>=20
>> Archive: http://www=2Eteam=2Enet/pipermail/mgs=20
>> http://autox=2Eteam=2Enet/archive
>>=20
>> Unsubscribe:=20
>> http://autox=2Eteam=2Enet/mailman/options/mgs/mvheim@sonic=2Enet
>
>Mgs@autox=2Eteam=2Enet
>Donate: http://www=2Eteam=2Enet/donate=2Ehtml
>Suggested annual donation  $12=2E75
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>Archive: http://www=2Eteam=2Enet/pipermail/mgs http://autox=2Eteam=2Enet/=
archive
>
>Unsubscribe: http://autox=2Eteam=2Enet/mailman/options/mgs/lrc@red4est=2E=
com

--=20
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail=2E Please excuse my brevity=2E
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<html><head></head><body>You might also be getting an air leak through the =
pcv port on the intake manifold<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On April =
10, 2023 1:01:08 PM PDT, dave northrup &lt;dave@ranteer=2Ecom&gt; wrote:<bl=
ockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0=2E8ex; border=
-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<pre dir=3D"auto" class=3D"k9mail">You just fill up the float bowls with g=
as=2E  Then the engine will run on its own for a bit until they run out<br>=
<br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Max Heim &lt;mvheim@sonic=2Enet&gt;=
 <br>Sent: Monday, April 10, 2023 11:56 AM<br>To: dave northrup &lt;dave@ra=
nteer=2Ecom&gt;<br>Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB carb question<br><br>The engine r=
uns with no fuel inlet hose to the carburetors?<br><br>You might want to ta=
ke out a patent on that=2E=2E=2E<br><br>--<br>Max Heim<br>'66 MGB<br><br><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0=2E8ex; borde=
r-left: 1px solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;">On Apr 10, 2023, at 8:50 AM,=
 dave northrup &lt;dave@ranteer=2Ecom&gt; wrote:<br><br>These carbs are on =
an mgb engine in an mga=2E  We acquired this project in kit form so I'm not=
 sure what i have=2E <br><br>I suspect these are mga carbs?<br><br>And i do=
n't know what to connect where=2E   The engine runs as is but I'm sure I'm =
missing something=2E  (Little joke there)=2E<br><br>Can someone send me a p=
icture and/or help me out?<br><br>&lt;20230410_102706=2Ejpg&gt;____________=
___________________________________<br><br>Mgs@autox=2Eteam=2Enet<br>Donate=
: <a href=3D"http://www=2Eteam=2Enet/donate=2Ehtml">http://www=2Eteam=2Enet=
/donate=2Ehtml</a> Suggested annual donation  <br>$12=2E75<br><br>Archive: =
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 $12=2E75<br><br>Archive: <a href=3D"http://www=2Eteam=2Enet/pipermail/mgs"=
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</pre></blockquote></div><div class=3D'k9mail-signature'>-- <br>Sent from m=
y Android device with K-9 Mail=2E Please excuse my brevity=2E</div></body><=
/html>
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[email-masked]

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---

From: PaulHunt73 <[email-masked]> unOrkRXz0dP1HVyAJxyRw4z1tfb1+xGqBFGHD3xBDSjAAejFplXGD8ZG4926LKCDNguXH4px5Z0JUoy/E8HR5RlmCF1glvvvuq0=
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2023 08:38:33 +0100

The evaporative loss system didn't use three ports on either carb, the 
overflow ports were piped to the charcoal canister instead of dumping on 
the ground.

HIFs piped the fuel through the front carb to the rear carb, I hadn't 
seen that on HSs before.  Clausager only shows a Tee by the rear carb 
with separate hoses to each carb, but there are some MGB pictures 'out 
there' that show other arrangements.

The vac advance port was a small tube on the throat of the carb, 
crankcase ventilation that replaced the PCV valve was a large tube on 
the throat.

PaulH.

[email-masked]

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From: PaulHunt73 <[email-masked]> hxHyzYW94I5zjrcTqSgQtUscmEIJJ+5Q6CgBVcSGX390ei9mQK141yMjiL5VrAlN/ZE8Z8DBR7whE2Ba0uk4Wp3A8dp6IxRomHf9EDVA6/KEDSduo76oS9a9
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2023 16:15:52 +0100

HIFs I see, plumbed much the same here except individual hard pipes 
going straight down for the overflows.

On 12/04/2023 16:03, Richard Lindsay wrote:
> Always sage advice. Thanks Paul. Here's how my '72 B is plumbed. Here 
> in Texas we don't have required emissions tests, or really any 
> MOT-style inspections for cars over 25 years of age. So you may notice 
> that the carbon canister fuel vapor capture/retrieval system is 
> inoperative. Some day I will plumb it correctly.
>
> R.

[email-masked]

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From: Larry Colen <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2023 14:58:53 -0700

I did some poking around, and found this link which is kind of fun
http://classicmini.weebly.com/how-do-identify-my-carb.html

> On Apr 12, 2023, at 8:15 AM, PaulHunt73 <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> HIFs I see, plumbed much the same here except individual hard pipes going straight down for the overflows.
> 
>> Always sage advice. Thanks Paul. Here's how my '72 B is plumbed. Here in Texas we don't have required emissions tests, or really any MOT-style inspections for cars over 25 years of age. So you may notice that the carbon canister fuel vapor capture/retrieval system is inoperative. Some day I will plumb it correctly.
>> 
>> R.

[email-masked]

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From: PaulHunt73 <[email-masked]> m13i3Cot7dyF3SIR+UeiV7H6X3elfGQRtFH2yJVpoi/GGaYXXEZYPgV5TjyIFQn5SkbEeYhhIdX9LPLERSftUYNxb1VHvuy+E+cwNmMvlTx1IUrBxpqiFWi5 mrc+75f1EvU3rBXcNsqPAyXKWdn1CwmsUzZ51sxZBcA=
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2023 08:42:22 +0100

HD description is incorrect, float chamber is on the side like HS.  The 
thing underneath is the diaphragm chamber.

https://sucarb.co.uk/technical-hd-type-carburetter-diaphragm-jet-and-auxiliary-enrichment

[email-masked]