Subject: Re: [Mgs] Advice please, bad miss

From: Simon Matthews via Mgs <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 17:39:25 -0700

Problem solved.

What's that old saw? 90% of fuel problems are ignition problems.

I swapped out the almost new condenser and the problem went away.

Simon

On Sat, Aug 27, 2016 at 3:16 PM, Simon Matthews
<[email-masked]> wrote:
> We have a '71 MGB GT, which is largely original (even has the smog pump).
>
> It has recently developed a bad miss. The miss occurs under some
> throttle usage: it seems to idle OK. The miss starts happening quickly
> after the car is started.
>
> My first thought was fuel starvation, but I removed the pipe from the
> fuel carburettor and turned on the ignition: plenty of fuel came out.
> I checked the levels in the float chambers and I think they were OK.
> They were both the same and about 3/4 inch from the top. This car has
> an aftermarket fuel pump mounted on the inner fender.
>
> I also wondered about head gasket, but the miss happens even if I
> prevent any pressure building up in the cooling system by removing the
> radiator cap.
>
> I have recently replaced all the plug leads, distributor cap,
> condenser and plugs. I have not replaced the coil, but the fact that
> it seems to idle OK suggests that ignition is not the problem.
>
> Where should I start with this car?
>
> Simon
_______________________________________________

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Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
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From: Richard Lindsay via Mgs <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2016 07:27:31 -0500

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Thanks for posting that, Simon! Read the stacks of workshop manuals and
they say, 'condensers almost never fail'. 'Almost' is a dangerous word and
it fogs our troubleshooting vision. But well done to you!

> I swapped out the almost new condenser and the problem went away.

And why after almost a year, am I writing this? Firstly, my MG TD
restoration awaits completion, but I uncovered it yesterday while cleaning
up the shop. Some of the old excitement returned. Secondly, my old '69
Silver Shadow is at a commercial shop getting new plugs, wires, cap, rotor,
coil, ballast, points, and condenser. And guess what; The 'almost new'
condenser had failed, leaving that honkin' big 6 liter V8 without enough
spark to start! Condensers DO fail, and when they do, diagnostics become
difficult because, "condensers almost never fail." Maybe the piles of
literature should read, "condensers almost never fail, except for the
poorly made replacements available in the 21st century."

-rick, with 6 Brirish cars, 3 Italian cars, 1 German, 1 Swedish, and 1
Japanese!

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<p dir=3D"ltr">Thanks for posting that, Simon! Read the stacks of workshop =
manuals and they say, &#39;condensers almost never fail&#39;. &#39;Almost&#=
39; is a dangerous word and it fogs our troubleshooting vision. But well do=
ne to you!</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">&gt; What&#39;s that old saw? 90% of fuel problems are ignit=
ion problems.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I swapped out the almost new condenser and the problem went away.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Simon</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">And why after almost a year, am I writing this? Firstly, my =
MG TD restoration awaits completion, but I uncovered it yesterday while cle=
aning up the shop. Some of the old excitement returned. Secondly, my old &#=
39;69 Silver Shadow is at a commercial shop getting new plugs, wires, cap, =
rotor, coil, ballast, points, and condenser. And guess what; The &#39;almos=
t new&#39; condenser had failed, leaving that honkin&#39; big 6 liter V8 wi=
thout enough spark to start! Condensers DO fail, and when they do, diagnost=
ics become difficult because, &quot;condensers almost never fail.&quot; May=
be the piles of literature should read, &quot;condensers almost never fail,=
 except for the poorly made replacements available in the 21st century.&quo=
t;</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">-rick, with 6 Brirish cars, 3 Italian cars, 1 German, 1 Swed=
ish, and 1 Japanese!</p>

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[email-masked]

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From: Stephen West-Fisher via Mgs <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2016 10:06:34 -0400

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That is the real point, back when most vehicles had them condensers =
didn=E2=80=99t fail. Now that they are all made as cheaply as possible =
(or are NOS) in very small quantities they fail relatively often. =
Earlier this summer I was fighting to bring my Land-Rover back to life =
after an overhaul =E2=80=93 bad condenser.

=20

Steve=20

=20

--

Stephen West-Fisher

N4IK

=20

From: Mgs [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Richard =
Lindsay via Mgs
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 8:28 AM
To: Simon Matthews
Cc: [email-masked] List
Subject: Re: [Mgs] Advice please, bad miss

=20

Maybe the piles of literature should read, "condensers almost never =
fail, except for the poorly made replacements available in the 21st =
century."

-rick, with 6 Brirish cars, 3 Italian cars, 1 German, 1 Swedish, and 1 =
Japanese!

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>That is the real point, back when most vehicles had them condensers =
didn=E2=80=99t fail. Now that they are all made as cheaply as possible =
(or are NOS) in very small quantities they fail relatively often. =
Earlier this summer I was fighting to bring my Land-Rover back to life =
after an overhaul =E2=80=93 bad condenser.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Steve <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'>--<o:p></o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'>Stephen =
West-Fisher<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'>N4IK<o:p></=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Mgs [mailto:[email-masked]] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Richard =
Lindsay via Mgs<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, August 28, 2016 8:28 =
AM<br><b>To:</b> Simon Matthews<br><b>Cc:</b> [email-masked] =
List<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Mgs] Advice please, bad =
miss<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p>Maybe the piles of literature =
should read, &quot;condensers almost never fail, except for the poorly =
made replacements available in the 21st =
century.&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p>-rick, with 6 Brirish cars, 3 Italian =
cars, 1 German, 1 Swedish, and 1 =
Japanese!<o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>
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[email-masked]

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From: David Ambrose via Mgs <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2016 10:40:03 -0700

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Some years back, I started getting enough condenser failures that I 
fitted an electronic ignition module. That's turned out to be a good 
decision.

On 8/28/2016 5:27 AM, Richard Lindsay via Mgs wrote:
>
> Thanks for posting that, Simon! Read the stacks of workshop manuals 
> and they say, 'condensers almost never fail'. 'Almost' is a dangerous 
> word and it fogs our troubleshooting vision. But well done to you!
>
> restoration awaits completion, but I uncovered it yesterday while 
> cleaning up the shop. Some of the old excitement returned. Secondly, 
> my old '69 Silver Shadow is at a commercial shop getting new plugs, 
> wires, cap, rotor, coil, ballast, points, and condenser. And guess 
> what; The 'almost new' condenser had failed, leaving that honkin' big 
> 6 liter V8 without enough spark to start! Condensers DO fail, and when 
> they do, diagnostics become difficult because, "condensers almost 
> never fail." Maybe the piles of literature should read, "condensers 
> almost never fail, except for the poorly made replacements available 
> in the 21st century."
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]

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    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p>Some years back, I started getting enough condenser failures that
      I fitted an electronic ignition module. That's turned out to be a
      good decision. <br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/28/2016 5:27 AM, Richard Lindsay
      via Mgs wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:[email-masked]"
      type="cite">
      <p dir="ltr">Thanks for posting that, Simon! Read the stacks of
        workshop manuals and they say, 'condensers almost never fail'.
        'Almost' is a dangerous word and it fogs our troubleshooting
        vision. But well done to you!</p>
      <p dir="ltr">&gt; What's that old saw? 90% of fuel problems are
        ignition problems.<br>
        &gt;<br>
        &gt; I swapped out the almost new condenser and the problem went
        away.<br>
        &gt;<br>
        &gt; Simon</p>
      <p dir="ltr">And why after almost a year, am I writing this?
        Firstly, my MG TD restoration awaits completion, but I uncovered
        it yesterday while cleaning up the shop. Some of the old
        excitement returned. Secondly, my old '69 Silver Shadow is at a
        commercial shop getting new plugs, wires, cap, rotor, coil,
        ballast, points, and condenser. And guess what; The 'almost new'
        condenser had failed, leaving that honkin' big 6 liter V8
        without enough spark to start! Condensers DO fail, and when they
        do, diagnostics become difficult because, "condensers almost
        never fail." Maybe the piles of literature should read,
        "condensers almost never fail, except for the poorly made
        replacements available in the 21st century."</p>
      <p dir="ltr">-rick, with 6 Brirish cars, 3 Italian cars, 1 German,
        1 Swedish, and 1 Japanese!</p>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________

<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>
Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net/archive</a>
Forums: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/forums">http://www.team.net/forums</a>
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</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
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From: Hans Duinhoven via Mgs <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 22:41:19 +0200

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Had a similar experience with my 1970 Puch moped. When the engine went on n=
ormal operational temperature, I heard a nasty bang noise and the engine lo=
st a lot of power. I managed to reach home.

Later when cold the engine started well again, but much sooner the engine p=
ower was lost again.

So I replaced the coil and the problem seamed to be away.

Quickly at the next longer run the engine started to show the very same iss=
ues.

I then replaced anything within the ignition, but not the coil of course.

The problem did not go away of course.

A good friend with lots of experience and parts got fed up with this nasty =
problem and replaced the entire ignition set.

Problem gone.

Had to pay him some $ 30 and I was allowed to keep the faulty set as well.

Replacing the coil again gave me a very nice spare set.

Cheers,

Hans

=E2=80=9971 BGT back on the road again after an MOT failure of the UJ joint=
 of the steering shaft and also some front suspension bushings were showing=
 to much play.

Another MOT failure was the demister did not work =E2=80=93 bit nasty job t=
o reconnect the hose again solved it nicely

Had a nice 230 miles run last Sunday and all went great

Van: Mgs [mailto:[email-masked]] Namens Richard Lindsay via Mgs=

Verzonden: zondag 28 augustus 2016 14:28
Aan: Simon Matthews
CC: [email-masked] List
Onderwerp: Re: [Mgs] Advice please, bad miss

Thanks for posting that, Simon! Read the stacks of workshop manuals and the=
y say, 'condensers almost never fail'. 'Almost' is a dangerous word and it =
fogs our troubleshooting vision. But well done to you!

> I swapped out the almost new condenser and the problem went away.

And why after almost a year, am I writing this? Firstly, my MG TD restorati=
on awaits completion, but I uncovered it yesterday while cleaning up the sh=
op. Some of the old excitement returned. Secondly, my old '69 Silver Shadow=
 is at a commercial shop getting new plugs, wires, cap, rotor, coil, ballas=
t, points, and condenser. And guess what; The 'almost new' condenser had fa=
iled, leaving that honkin' big 6 liter V8 without enough spark to start! Co=
ndensers DO fail, and when they do, diagnostics become difficult because, "=
condensers almost never fail." Maybe the piles of literature should read, "=
condensers almost never fail, except for the poorly made replacements avail=
able in the 21st century."

-rick, with 6 Brirish cars, 3 Italian cars, 1 German, 1 Swedish, and 1 Japa=
nese!

---
Dit e-mailbericht is gecontroleerd op virussen met Avast antivirussoftware.=

https://www.avast.com/antivirus

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=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US=
 style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D=
'>Had a similar experience with my 1970 Puch moped. When the engine went on=
 normal operational temperature, I heard a nasty bang noise and the engine =
lost a lot of power. I managed to reach home.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cali=
bri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Later when cold the engine started well ag=
ain, but much sooner the engine power was lost again.<o:p></o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>So I replaced the coil and the pro=
blem seamed to be away.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lan=
g=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";colo=
r:#1F497D'>Quickly at the next longer run the engine started to show the ve=
ry same issues.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-U=
S style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I then replaced anything within the ignition, but not the coil of course=
=2E<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'f=
ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The probl=
em did not go away of course.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><sp=
an lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif=
";color:#1F497D'>A good friend with lots of experience and parts got fed up=
 with this nasty problem and replaced the entire ignition set.<o:p></o:p></=
span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Problem gone.<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Had to pay him some $ 30=
 and I was allowed to keep the faulty set as well.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Replacing the coil again gave me a ve=
ry nice spare set.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DE=
N-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F=
497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US s=
tyle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>=
Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hans=
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font=
-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>=E2=80=9971 BGT ba=
ck on the road again after an MOT failure of the UJ joint of the steering s=
haft and also some front suspension bushings were showing to much play.<o:p=
></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Another MOT fail=
ure was the demister did not work =E2=80=93 bit nasty job to reconnect the =
hose again solved it nicely<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
 lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";=
color:#1F497D'>Had a nice 230 miles run last Sunday and all went great<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Van:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10=
=2E0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Mgs [mailto:[email-masked]=
am.net] <b>Namens </b>Richard Lindsay via Mgs<br><b>Verzonden:</b> zondag 2=
8 augustus 2016 14:28<br><b>Aan:</b> Simon Matthews<br><b>CC:</b> mgs@autox=
=2Eteam.net List<br><b>Onderwerp:</b> Re: [Mgs] Advice please, bad miss<o:p=
></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p>Thanks for p=
osting that, Simon! Read the stacks of workshop manuals and they say, 'cond=
ensers almost never fail'. 'Almost' is a dangerous word and it fogs our tro=
ubleshooting vision. But well done to you!<o:p></o:p></p><p>&gt; What's tha=
t old saw? 90% of fuel problems are ignition problems.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; I sw=
apped out the almost new condenser and the problem went away.<br>&gt;<br>&g=
t; Simon<o:p></o:p></p><p>And why after almost a year, am I writing this? F=
irstly, my MG TD restoration awaits completion, but I uncovered it yesterda=
y while cleaning up the shop. Some of the old excitement returned. Secondly=
, my old '69 Silver Shadow is at a commercial shop getting new plugs, wires=
, cap, rotor, coil, ballast, points, and condenser. And guess what; The 'al=
most new' condenser had failed, leaving that honkin' big 6 liter V8 without=
 enough spark to start! Condensers DO fail, and when they do, diagnostics b=
ecome difficult because, &quot;condensers almost never fail.&quot; Maybe th=
e piles of literature should read, &quot;condensers almost never fail, exce=
pt for the poorly made replacements available in the 21st century.&quot;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p>-rick, with 6 Brirish cars, 3 Italian cars, 1 German, 1 Swed=
ish, and 1 Japanese!<o:p></o:p></p></div>
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