Subject: Re: [Mgs] 67 BGT steering wheel play

From: "PaulHunt73" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 08:47:43 +0100

Depends if your 67 is a Mk1 or a Mk2 as the column changed from solid to 
collapsible then.  On the earlier one the inner is simply a sliding fit in 
the outer, so once removed from the car probably easy enough to drift the 
bush out from the bottom.

Even though the horn arrangements changed at the same time in both cases an 
earth on the column shaft should go through the wheel boss to the body of 
the horn push, then through the horn switch when operated.

Mk1 cars then went through the centre rivet on the horn push, to a 'bullet' 
on a wire in an insulated hole down the middle of the column shaft to the 
brass cylindrical slip-ring mounted on but insulated from the column shaft 
just below the splines.  The fixed contact rests on the slip-ring as the 
wheel is turned, and is wired out to the horns.

Mk2 cars then went through an offset spring-loaded pencil resting on the 
back of a flat slip ring attached to the back of the wheel hub, and the 
fixed contact rested on that, wired out to the horns as earlier.

I'd be very surprised if earthing the outer tube of the steering column 
fixed the problem as that is bolted to the bodywork behind the dash anyway. 
The column shaft gets its earth through the UJ, rack shaft, rack outer, 
front cross-member from the chassis rails.  It's not uncommon for cars with 
the later full energy absorbing column to have a high resistance in that 
path but I've not heard of a chrome bumper car having that problem.

If linking the fixed contact below the wheel to a clean part of the column 
shaft sounds the horn then the problem is in the horn switch or between that 
and the slip ring.

If that doesn't sound the horn but linking the fixed contact to some other 
metal work (try the column outer as well as the bodywork it is bolted to) 
does, then the problem *is* a missing earth from the column inner.  If the 
column outer sounds the horn then providing another earth won't help.

Ideally you need to test wrt earth with a voltmeter on the column shaft, 
slip-ring and fixed contact as you are pressing the horn button to see which 
how the voltages rise and fall.  You could have more than one high 
resistance rather than a complete open-circuit, as I did on my RB V8.

PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- 
> Noticed that I am able to move the steering wheel up and down about 1/16" 
> in
> my 67 BGT while trying to fix my horns. 
_______________________________________________

[email-masked]
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]

---

From: Charley & Peggy Robinson <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 17:55:32 -0500

Errr, the ground is supposed to be on the other side of the horns, not 
in the column.  IOW,  current flows from ground, through the horns, 
through the switch on the steering column and to the battery.   Note:  I 
don't want to hear any arguments about which direction current flows!

CR
On 8/27/2012 12:10 PM, W. David Houser wrote:
> Listers,
> Noticed that I am able to move the steering wheel up and down about 1/16" in
> my 67 BGT while trying to fix my horns. Took off the black covers over the
> turn signal switch and see the problem. The movement is right at the top of
> the column behind the self canceling arms. Has anyone else replaced that upper
> nylon bearing(#24 in Moss catalog)? I know the wheel must come off, anything
> else?
> The horn problem, incidentally, is caused by there being no ground at the
> column itself. I plan to ground a wire from the steering column clamp to a
> body ground under the dash for a repair. Horns checked out and they work.
> TIA,
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/[email-masked]

[email-masked]

---

From: "Larry Daniels" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 19:10:53 -0500

----Original Message----- 
From: Charley & Peggy Robinson 
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 5:55 PM 
To: W. David Houser 
Cc: MGList List 
Subject: Re: [Mgs] 67 BGT steering wheel play 

CR

=========================================

I just checked... the current was pretty much going downstream.

Sorry, CR.  Couldn't help myself.

Larry

[email-masked]

---

From: Charles Hill <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 21:52:09 -0500

Not if you have positive ground.  Think older MGs

Charles Hill

On 8/29/2012 5:55 PM, Charley & Peggy Robinson wrote:
> through the switch on the steering column and to the battery.   Note:  
> I don't want to hear any arguments about which direction current flows!
>
> CR

[email-masked]

---

From: "PaulHunt73" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 08:49:09 +0100

Not even most negative grounds.  The earth wasn't at the horns and 12v from 
the switch until the 77 year (although some schematics don't even show it 
that way then).  Until then the earth always came from the switch, picked up 
from the column shaft for the wheel centre button except for the 1970 year 
when it was wired to the column stalk switch.

PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- 
>> Errr, the ground is supposed to be on the other side of the horns, not in 
>> the column.  IOW,  current flows from ground, through the horns, through 
>> the switch on the steering column and to the battery.   Note:  I don't 
>> want to hear any arguments about which direction current flows!

[email-masked]

---

From: Charley & Peggy Robinson <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 12:02:04 -0500

I have a '69 MGB, with a stalk switch and the ground is at the horns.  
Guess I should have said, "On my '69................"  Agree that the 
wiring diagrams may contain a few errors. :-)

CR

CR
On 8/30/2012 2:49 AM, PaulHunt73 wrote:
> Not even most negative grounds.  The earth wasn't at the horns and 12v 
> from the switch until the 77 year (although some schematics don't even 
> show it that way then).  Until then the earth always came from the 
> switch, picked up from the column shaft for the wheel centre button 
> except for the 1970 year when it was wired to the column stalk switch.
>
> PaulH.
>
>>> Errr, the ground is supposed to be on the other side of the horns, 
>>> not in the column.  IOW,  current flows from ground, through the 
>>> horns, through the switch on the steering column and to the 
>>> battery.   Note:  I don't want to hear any arguments about which 
>>> direction current flows!

[email-masked]

---

From: "PaulHunt73" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 12:46:02 +0100

That would need two wires going through the stalk, they would have to be 
pretty thin, and the horns take quite a lot of current.  I was under the 
impression that the earth for the switch was fed up the metal tube of the 
stalk, meaning only one wire - purple/black - coming down and going out to 
the horns.  The main colour of purple indicates it is controlling a device 
connected to the fused, always live supply, and the tracer colour of black 
indicates that an earth is connected to operate the device.  Generally 
speaking when a wire colour was first used that was the convention, although 
if there were subsequent changes, as from 77 when the horns *were* backed by 
an earth instead of 12v, they kept the colour of the controlling wire.

PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- 

[email-masked]