Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube

From: Roland Wilhelmy <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2024 16:58:08 -0800

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My BN1 #724, engine number 139756, has no float bowl drain tubes, just the
red notched washer and chrome vent at the top screw .  I have never had the
problems that you report.  The floats are original.  I cleaned and rebuilt
with a Moss kit.  If one of my carbs worked right and one did not, after
replacing all rebuild able parts, I would replace the malfunctioning carb.
If that fixes things you can explore the faulty carb at leisure.  If it
doesn't, then the rear carb wasn't the problem.
-Roland

On Mon, Dec 23, 2024, 1:19=E2=80=AFPM Hank Leach via Healeys <healeys@autox=
.team.net>
wrote:

> Michael-that is why I asked the question in the beginning, Where is the
> fuel coming from and what is the cure for the problem? I agree that the
> fuel is "atomized" in the throttle area and that would be the best
> condition to send it to the engine but this car is dumping fuel and I
> cannot find the mechanism to stop that flow. Suggested lighter nitrile
> floats are at the top of the list, if in fact my brass ones are bum. Bill
> Lawrence modified his intakes possibly due to fuel issues?  The system on
> this early car (same as yours) is a bit "cruder" than the revised float
> bowl vent system (with no manifold drain?). And, I cannot see anything
> wrong the float setting as presently set.
> The fuel is not coming out the jet with the key off and the float bowls
> full to proper level-it is as you said below the top of the jet. Float
> valves are closed.  Its when the key is on and fuel pressure is applied
> that I am getting the overflow condition. I was hoping that someone else =
on
> the team has had a similar experience. Hank
> --------------------
>
> From: "Michael Salter" <[email-masked]>
> To: "Hank Leach" <[email-masked]>
> Cc: "Healey team" <[email-masked]>
> Sent: December 23, 2024 at 12:21 PM PST
> Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube
> Sorry Hank but I think you have that wrong.
> In and SU carb,and for that matter almost every other type of carburettor=
,
> fuel DOES NOT pump out through the jet.
> The fuel level, as mentioned previously, is controlled by the float
> chamber float valve to never actually be above the top of the jet. It is
> only the flow of air across the carburettor "bridge", where the jet is
> positioned, that draws fuel up through the jet to be atomized into the
> airflow and into the inlet manifold.
> This is all related to Bernoulli's principle
> <https://www.google.com/search?client=3Dfirefox-b-d&q=3DBernoulli%27s+pri=
nciple>
> which is the basis upon which all carburettors work.
> If fuel is coming out of the jet when the engine is not running then the
> mechanism controlling the float level is not operating correctly.
>
> M
>
> On Mon, Dec 23, 2024 at 1:37=E2=80=AFPM Hank Leach via Healeys <
> [email-masked]> wrote:
>
>> Ah! A rebel in the crowd. I looked at a bunch of photos of 1953 100
>> engines on the web.  Many are configured as mine with NO FLOAT BOWL DRAI=
N
>> TUBES.  The *later *engine setups have drain tubes in the lid. This
>> includes the cars using H6 carbs (Lemans).  Also, on these early designs
>> there is a different carb adaptor. Part 1B1672  which has a lower drain =
in
>> the casing up to engine # 139915 (my engine 139563). Of course Moss,
>> etc. only sell the later style products. but some books show the solid
>> float lids and some show vented lids and some show a lid with a drain tu=
be
>> (air vent).
>>
>> So, in theory the way the early system works; fuel is inlet from the
>> float chamber and enters the jet thru a hole in the tube positioned betw=
een
>> the two gland washers which are to keep the fuel intact. when the choke =
is
>> pulled that jet hole  is lowered to send in, as the British say..."a nea=
t
>> petrol supply" to start the car.
>> Now, if you turn on the key, fuel pumps in and is moved thru the jet int=
o
>> the throttle area and into the manifold. Unless the engine is now turnin=
g
>> and suction from the piston is active, the fuel will run haplessly in th=
e
>> intake manifold and out the drain tube to the ground. So the important
>> procedure in these early systems is turn the key and crank the engine
>> immediately or it will overflow fuel down the drain tube.  I'm here
>> testing the operation of the carburetors in a static mode-its not going =
to
>> do anything but spew fuel to the ground. Right?
>>
>> The later design using a float bowl vent tube also send fuel into the
>> manifold but without a drain tube the fuel will go into the engine, as t=
he
>> Moss PDF described, diluting the oil and washing the cylinders. Sounds l=
ike
>> the best method of starting up is to crank the engine as soon as you hea=
r
>> the fuel pump click...I typically have waited until the pump stopped (fl=
oat
>> bowls full) before cranking. Live and learn?Hank
>>
>>
>> --------------------
>>
>> From: "WILLIAM B LAWRENCE" <[email-masked]>
>> To: "Hank Leach via Healeys" <[email-masked]>, "Bob Haskell" <
>> [email-masked]>, "richard mayor" <[email-masked]>, <
>> [email-masked]>
>> Sent: December 22, 2024 at 9:29 PM PST
>> Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube
>>
>> I=E2=80=99d like to be able to answer that, but I have to confess I=E2=
=80=99ve modified
>> the induction system on mine (I know, I=E2=80=99m going to Hell) and I=
=E2=80=99m a little
>> fuzzy on the details. If memory serves (a doubtful premise) the float bo=
wls
>> originally had an open vent arrangement on the top with no drain tubes. =
The
>> car was built up from several dozen boxes of parts, so that may not have
>> been correct. About 20 years ago I built a pair of H6s and installed tho=
se
>> with drain tubes. The car is a bitsa anyway so originality is secondary,=
 or
>> maybe tertiary=E2=80=A6
>>
>> Bill Lawrence
>> BN1 554
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Healeys <[email-masked]> on behalf of Hank Leach
>> via Healeys <[email-masked]>
>> *Sent:* Monday, December 23, 2024 1:59 AM
>> *To:* Bob Haskell <[email-masked]>; richard mayor <
>> [email-masked]>
>> *Cc:* healeys <[email-masked]>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube
>>
>> Thanks Bob-yes the Moss site confirms they have alternate nitrile floats
>> and about $20 each. Looking at the diagram there is a drawing of the flo=
at
>> chamber overflow AUC1866 (451-250) $24.99 each.  I do not have these
>> overflows on my float bowls (as Richard Mayor mentioned their location)
>> Instead the early cars have silver vent caps and a red washer which allo=
ws
>> air out and those two intake manifold copper drain pipes at the bottom o=
f
>> the carb intakes. There is a PDF note on that part which reads:
>>
>> "These pipes are open to the atmosphere, for two reasons: first (and mos=
t
>> important) they allow the fuel coming into the float bowl to displace th=
e
>> air in there so the fuel can reach its correct level in a timely manner.
>> Second, if the float valve (needle-and-seat) should stick open (as they =
do
>> when a bit of grit is trapped on the mating surfaces) the fuel will be
>> piped out and down =E2=80=93 away from the engine. If the *fuel could no=
t escape
>> through the overflow pipe, it would pour down the carburetor throat into
>> the engine*. With that much liquid gasoline, not all of it will vaporize
>> before the spark plug fires. The fuel that does vaporize will make the
>> mixture so rich (as if the choke were engaged) the car will belch black
>> smoke out the tailpipe. The engine will eventually flood and die."
>>
>> The point here is that not having those overflows on the float bowls; th=
e
>> overflow is actually after the throttle plates on my car. I wonder how B=
ill
>> Lawrence's early car is configured and if he has float bowl overflows or
>> intake overflows? Is it possible that this is a clue to my delima? Trapp=
ed
>> air? Hank
>> --------------------
>>
>> From: "Bob Haskell" <[email-masked]>
>> To: <[email-masked]>, "richard mayor" <[email-masked]>
>> Cc: "healeys" <[email-masked]>
>> Sent: December 22, 2024 at 4:28 PM PST
>> Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube
>>
>> Hank,
>>
>> I think the newest floats are made from nitrile rubber - nitrophyl, not
>> plastic.  Supposedly unsinkable.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Bob Haskell
>> Austin-Healey 3000 roadster registrar
>>
>> On 12/22/24 17:49, Hank Leach via Healeys wrote:
>>
>> I actually cannot figure where all the fuel is coming from. In static
>> mode-key off and float bowls at proper level-with dashpot and piston
>> removed, no fuel is apparent (as Michael says about 1/8" below jet or as
>> you say equal to float setting). However, with key on and carbs together
>> it's a different story-fuel is flowing steadily. The suggestion that was
>> made that we really need to have clear plastic float bowls has merit. I
>> cannot tell if the brass float is pushing hard enough to shut off the pe=
g
>> on the valve. When held shut by hand its positive.
>>
>> If the float is "heavy", then it will not effect enough pressure on the
>> peg to stop the flow. This is why someone suggested plastic floats inste=
ad
>> of brass. Fuel is the shut off mechanism. I have swapped float and needl=
e
>> valves from front to rear carb in hopes that the front one will now star=
t
>> leaking. That may be a clue to the issue. Waiting for a dry day (next
>> year?) to test that theory.
>> --------------------
>>
>> From: "richard mayor" <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]>
>> To: "Leach Hank" <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]>
>> Cc: "healeys" <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]>
>> Sent: December 22, 2024 at 2:23 PM PST
>> Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube
>> Hank,
>>
>> If I read your post correctly, the fuel is coming out of the jet in the
>> carburetor into the intake manifold and then out the drain tube.  Not fr=
om
>> the overflow tube on the float chamber. I=E2=80=99ll proceed with this a=
ssumption.
>>
>> The level of fuel at the jet is the same level as that in the float
>> chamber. That is the way these SU carbs are designed. That is why float
>> level is so important.  If fuel is flowing out of  the jet before the
>> needle valve shuts off the fuel supply at the float chamber then your fl=
oat
>> level is set too high.  You need to close the float needle valve with th=
e
>> float at a lower level. Instead of using 7/16th as a guide, try 1/2=E2=
=80=9D and
>> see if that stops the flow.  But then you said you tried different
>> settings.
>>
>> Is there an obstruction that is preventing the float from rising all the
>> way to the top to close the needle valve?  Try a different float. Polish
>> the post.  Is there any wear in the fork or pivot in the casting that is
>> not allowing the needle to move feely into it=E2=80=99s seat.  I think t=
hat=E2=80=99s where
>> the problem is.
>>
>> Richard Mayor
>> [email-masked]
>>
>>
>> On Dec 22, 2024, at 12:28=E2=80=AFPM, Hank Leach via Healeys
>> <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>  I have chased the cause of too much fuel exiting from the rear
>> carburetor overflow of my 100 for years. These are H4 carbs-very simple
>> design, but must be done correctly to perform. So I find that the jet is
>> out of center and piston is sticking up above the flat about 1/8"-that
>> would allow fuel to run into throttle area and out overflow drain tube.
>>
>> No way to center jet on car. Remove carburetor-a 4 hour job- and clean
>> and replace gaskets and gland washers-yes cork- and reassemble and cente=
r
>> jet...now works perfect. Re mount carburetor and connect fuel lines-anot=
her
>> 4 hour job.  Both carb pistons drop with a clunk at the same time.  Turn=
 on
>> key- fuel pump clicking-overflow again leaking.
>>
>> I have reset the floats and float needles (brass) were replaced many
>> times-that's not the issue. No fuel in float bodies-they are not leaking=
.
>> I just cant believe its too much fuel pressure but then again, this is a
>> British Car.
>> Float is brass but when shaked it is dry. I filled the float lid with
>> carb cleaner while holding needle valve closed and no leaking. That's tw=
o
>> places checked (these are unfortunately "new" parts) Now the next leak
>> could be between the needle and jet if not closed off-also new parts-jet
>> .090. Needles are QW as specified but i also have a set of ATs which are
>> lean that I am tempted to try. Actually both needles are about the same =
at
>> top .089, but ATs are a bit fatter at mid range. Problem is all testing
>> stinks up the garage and creates an explosive atmosphere so best done
>> outside in the rain.
>>
>> I know some folks like Grosse Jets-but I don't-- I prefer the simple
>> brass ones with viton tips which do work if pressure is applied by forke=
d
>> leg-also new, and set to 7/16" or MORE. With covers off, both bowls are
>> equally about 1/2 filled. Fuel pressure is a thought as it can push by t=
he
>> stops but its the correct pump and when key on clicks fast then slows to=
 a
>> stop... but then tick, tick which it should not do!  Fuel is going out a=
nd
>> down the drain tube to my swimming pool drip pan. Im tempted to measure =
the
>> top of the needles to see if they are really at .089. Can't measure the =
new
>> jet but its stamped "9" Maybe stick in a number drill to see if its roun=
d?
>> Mind you, these carbs have about 125 miles total on them. As far as I kn=
ow
>> these are "genuine SU" parts-not Moss India knockoffs.
>>
>> I really thought that the centering was the issue and took the carb off
>> for that reason which cured the drop-each drops equally with thud. That'=
s
>> not the problem. Any suggestions? Someone says use plastic floats...Hank
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<p dir=3D"ltr">My BN1 #724, engine number 139756, has no float bowl drain t=
ubes, just the red notched washer and chrome vent at the top screw .=C2=A0 =
I have never had the problems that you report.=C2=A0 The floats are origina=
l.=C2=A0 I cleaned and rebuilt with a Moss kit.=C2=A0 If one of my carbs wo=
rked right and one did not, after replacing all rebuild able parts, I would=
 replace the malfunctioning carb.=C2=A0 If that fixes things you can explor=
e the faulty carb at leisure.=C2=A0 If it doesn&#39;t, then the rear carb w=
asn&#39;t the problem.<br>
-Roland </p>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Dec 23, 2024, 1:19=E2=80=AFPM Hank Leach via Healey=
s &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&=
gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0=
 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>Michael-that is why=
 I asked the question in the beginning, Where is the fuel coming from and w=
hat is the cure for the problem? I agree that the fuel is &quot;atomized&qu=
ot; in the throttle area and that would be the best condition to send it to=
 the engine but this car is dumping fuel and I cannot find the mechanism to=
 stop that flow. Suggested lighter nitrile floats are at the top of the lis=
t, if in fact my brass ones are bum. Bill Lawrence modified his intakes pos=
sibly due to fuel issues?=C2=A0 The system on this early car (same as yours=
) is a bit &quot;cruder&quot; than the revised float bowl vent system (with=
 no manifold drain?). And, I cannot see anything wrong the float setting as=
 presently set.</div>
<div>The fuel is not coming out the jet with the key off and the float bowl=
s full to proper level-it is as you said below the top of the jet. Float va=
lves are closed.=C2=A0 Its when the key is on and fuel pressure is applied =
that I am getting the overflow condition. I was hoping that someone else on=
 the team has had a similar experience. Hank<br>-------------------- <br><b=
r>From: &quot;Michael Salter&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:michaelsalter@gmai=
l.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]</a>&gt;=
 <br>To: &quot;Hank Leach&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]</a>&gt; <br>Cc: &q=
uot;Healey team&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=
=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]</a>&gt; <br>Sent: Dec=
ember 23, 2024 at 12:21 PM PST <br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel =
into intake drain tube </div>
<div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small">Sorry Hank but I think you have that wrong.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small">In and SU carb,and for that matter almost every other type of carb=
urettor, fuel DOES NOT pump out through the jet. </div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small">The fuel level, as mentioned previously, is controlled by the floa=
t chamber float valve to never actually be above the top of the jet. It is =
only the flow of air across the carburettor &quot;bridge&quot;, where the j=
et is positioned, that draws fuel up through the jet to be atomized into th=
e airflow and into the inlet manifold. </div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small">This is all related to <a href=3D"https://www.google.com/search?cl=
ient=3Dfirefox-b-d&amp;q=3DBernoulli%27s+principle" target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"noreferrer">Bernoulli&#39;s principle</a> which is the basis upon which=
 all carburettors work.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small">If fuel is coming out of the jet when the engine is not running th=
en the mechanism controlling the float level is not operating correctly.</d=
iv>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small">=C2=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small">M</div>
</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Dec 23, 2024 at 1:37=E2=80=AFPM Hank Leac=
h via Healeys &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blan=
k" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>Ah! A rebel in the crowd. I looked at a bunch of photos of 1953 100 en=
gines on the web.=C2=A0 Many are configured as mine with NO FLOAT BOWL DRAI=
N TUBES.=C2=A0 The <em>later </em>engine setups have drain tubes in the lid=
. This includes the cars using H6 carbs (Lemans).=C2=A0 Also, on these earl=
y designs there is a different carb adaptor. Part 1B1672=C2=A0 which has a =
lower drain in the casing<span style=3D"text-decoration:underline"> up to e=
ngine # 139915</span> (my engine 139563). Of course Moss, etc. only sell th=
e later style products. but some books show the solid float lids and some s=
how vented lids and some show a lid with a drain tube (air vent).</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>So, in theory the way the early system works; fuel is inlet from the f=
loat chamber and enters the jet thru a hole in the tube positioned between =
the two gland washers which are to keep the fuel intact. when the choke is =
pulled that jet hole=C2=A0 is lowered to send in, as the British say...&quo=
t;a neat petrol supply&quot; to start the car.</div>
<div>Now, if you turn on the key, fuel pumps in and is moved thru the jet i=
nto the throttle area and into the manifold. <span style=3D"text-decoration=
:underline">Unless the engine is now turning</span> and suction from the pi=
ston is active, the fuel will run haplessly in the intake manifold and out =
the drain tube to the ground. So the important procedure in these early sys=
tems is turn the key and crank the engine <span style=3D"text-decoration:un=
derline">immediately</span> or it will overflow fuel down the drain tube.=
=C2=A0 I&#39;m here testing the operation of the carburetors in a static mo=
de-its not going to do anything but spew fuel to the ground. Right?</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>The later design using a float bowl vent tube also send fuel into the =
manifold but without a drain tube the fuel will go into the engine, as the =
Moss PDF described, diluting the oil and washing the cylinders. Sounds like=
 the best method of starting up is to crank the engine as soon as you hear =
the fuel pump click...I typically have waited until the pump stopped (float=
 bowls full) before cranking. Live and learn?Hank</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div><br>-------------------- <br><br>From: &quot;WILLIAM B LAWRENCE&quot; =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; <br>To: &quot;Hank Leach via Healeys&qu=
ot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;, &quot;Bob Haskell&quot=
; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer=
" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;, &quot;richard mayor&qu=
ot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer=
" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gr=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">gradea1@ch=
arter.net</a>&gt; <br>Sent: December 22, 2024 at 9:29 PM PST <br>Subject: R=
e: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:inherit;font-size:inherit;color:inherit;backgroun=
d-color:transparent">=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:inherit;font-size:inherit;color:inherit;backgroun=
d-color:transparent">I=E2=80=99d like to be able to answer that, but I have=
 to confess I=E2=80=99ve modified the induction system on mine (I know, I=
=E2=80=99m going to Hell) and I=E2=80=99m a little fuzzy on the details. If=
 memory serves (a doubtful premise) the float bowls originally had an open =
vent arrangement on the top with no drain tubes. The car was built up from =
several dozen boxes of parts, so that may not have been correct. About 20 y=
ears ago I built a pair of H6s and installed those with drain tubes. The ca=
r is a bitsa anyway so originality is secondary, or maybe tertiary=E2=80=A6=
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:inherit;font-size:inherit;color:inherit;backgroun=
d-color:transparent">=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:inherit;font-size:inherit;color:inherit;backgroun=
d-color:transparent">Bill Lawrence</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:inherit;font-size:inherit;color:inherit;backgroun=
d-color:transparent">BN1 554</div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id=3D"m_3659040959950062496m_-6618822986480632876divRplyFwdMsg"><stron=
g>From:</strong> Healeys &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
et" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
m.net</a>&gt; on behalf of Hank Leach via Healeys &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hea=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">healeys@=
autox.team.net</a>&gt;<br><strong>Sent:</strong> Monday, December 23, 2024 =
1:59 AM<br><strong>To:</strong> Bob Haskell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rchaskell=
@earthlink.net" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">rchaskell@ear=
thlink.net</a>&gt;; richard mayor &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
om" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>=
&gt;<br><strong>Cc:</strong> healeys &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
am.net" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
t</a>&gt;<br><strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into =
intake drain tube
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>Thanks Bob-yes the Moss site confirms they have alternate nitrile floa=
ts and about $20 each. Looking at the diagram there is a drawing of the flo=
at chamber overflow AUC1866 (451-250) $24.99 each.=C2=A0 I do not have thes=
e overflows on my float bowls (as Richard Mayor mentioned their location) I=
nstead the early cars have silver vent caps and a red washer which allows a=
ir out and those two intake manifold copper drain pipes at the bottom of th=
e carb intakes. There is a PDF note on that part which reads:</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>&quot;These pipes are open to the atmosphere, for two reasons: first (=
and most important) they allow the fuel coming into the float bowl to displ=
ace the air in there so the fuel can reach its correct level in a timely ma=
nner. Second, if the float valve (needle-and-seat) should stick open (as th=
ey do when a bit of grit is trapped on the mating surfaces) the fuel will b=
e piped out and down =E2=80=93 away from the engine. If the <strong>fuel co=
uld not escape through the overflow pipe, it would pour down the carburetor=
 throat into the engine</strong>. With that much liquid gasoline, not all o=
f it will vaporize before the spark plug fires. The fuel that does vaporize=
 will make the mixture so rich (as if the choke were engaged) the car will =
belch black smoke out the tailpipe. The engine will eventually flood and di=
e.&quot;</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>The point here is that not having those overflows on the float bowls; =
the overflow is actually after the throttle plates on my car. I wonder how =
Bill Lawrence&#39;s early car is configured and if he has float bowl overfl=
ows or intake overflows? Is it possible that this is a clue to my delima? T=
rapped air? Hank</div>
<div>--------------------=C2=A0<br><br>From: &quot;Bob Haskell&quot; &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; <br>To: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:g=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">gradea1@c=
harter.net</a>&gt;, &quot;richard mayor&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:boyrace=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">boyracer466@g=
mail.com</a>&gt; <br>Cc: &quot;healeys&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@=
autox.team.net" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox=
.team.net</a>&gt; <br>Sent: December 22, 2024 at 4:28 PM PST <br>Subject: R=
e: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube</div>
<p>Hank,</p>
<p>I think the newest floats are made from nitrile rubber - nitrophyl, not =
plastic.=C2=A0 Supposedly unsinkable.</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<pre>Bob Haskell
Austin-Healey 3000 roadster registrar</pre>
<div>On 12/22/24 17:49, Hank Leach via Healeys wrote:</div>
<blockquote>
<div>I actually cannot figure where all the fuel is coming from. In static =
mode-key off and float bowls at proper level-with dashpot and piston remove=
d, no fuel is apparent (as Michael says about 1/8&quot; below jet or as you=
 say equal to float setting). However, with key on and carbs together it&#3=
9;s a different story-fuel is flowing steadily. The suggestion that was mad=
e that we really need to have clear plastic float bowls has merit. I cannot=
 tell if the brass float is pushing hard enough to shut off the peg on the =
valve. When held shut by hand its positive.</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>If the float is &quot;heavy&quot;, then it will not effect enough pres=
sure on the peg to stop the flow. This is why someone suggested plastic flo=
ats instead of brass. Fuel is the shut off mechanism. I have swapped float =
and needle valves from front to rear carb in hopes that the front one will =
now start leaking. That may be a clue to the issue. Waiting for a dry day (=
next year?) to test that theory.<br>-------------------- <br><br>From: &quo=
t;richard mayor&quot; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noope=
ner noreferrer" target=3D"_blank"> &lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a> <br>To=
: &quot;Leach Hank&quot; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noop=
ener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank"> &lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a> <br>Cc:=
 &quot;healeys&quot; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noope=
ner noreferrer" target=3D"_blank"> &lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a> <br>S=
ent: December 22, 2024 at 2:23 PM PST <br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowin=
g fuel into intake drain tube <br>Hank,</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>If I read your post correctly, the fuel is coming out of the jet in th=
e carburetor into the intake manifold and then out the drain tube.=C2=A0 No=
t from the overflow tube on the float chamber. I=E2=80=99ll proceed with th=
is assumption.</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>The level of fuel at the jet is the same level as that in the float ch=
amber. That is the way these SU carbs are designed. That is why float level=
 is so important.=C2=A0 If fuel is flowing out of =C2=A0the jet before the =
needle valve shuts off the fuel supply at the float chamber then your float=
 level is set too high.=C2=A0 You need to close the float needle valve with=
 the float at a lower level. Instead of using 7/16th as a guide, try 1/2=E2=
=80=9D and see if that stops the flow.=C2=A0 But then you said you tried di=
fferent settings.=C2=A0</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>Is there an obstruction that is preventing the float from rising all t=
he way to the top to close the needle valve?=C2=A0 Try a different float. P=
olish the post.=C2=A0 Is there any wear in the fork or pivot in the casting=
 that is not allowing the needle to move feely into it=E2=80=99s seat.=C2=
=A0 I think that=E2=80=99s where the problem is.=C2=A0</div>
<div><br id=3D"m_3659040959950062496m_-6618822986480632876x_lineBreakAtBegi=
nningOfMessage">
<div>
<div>Richard Mayor</div>
<div><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a></div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote>
<div>On Dec 22, 2024, at 12:28=E2=80=AFPM, Hank Leach via Healeys <a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_b=
lank"> &lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a> wrote:</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>=C2=A0I have chased the cause of too much fuel exiting from the rear c=
arburetor overflow of my 100 for years. These are H4 carbs-very simple desi=
gn, but must be done correctly to perform. So I find that the jet is out of=
 center and piston is sticking up above the flat about 1/8&quot;-that would=
 allow fuel to run into throttle area and out overflow drain tube.=C2=A0
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>No way to center jet on car. Remove carburetor-a 4 hour job- and clean=
 and replace gaskets and gland washers-yes cork- and reassemble and center =
jet...now works perfect. Re mount carburetor and connect fuel lines-another=
 4 hour job.=C2=A0 Both carb pistons drop with a clunk at the same time.=C2=
=A0 Turn on key- fuel pump clicking-overflow again leaking.=C2=A0</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>I have reset the floats and float needles (brass) were replaced many t=
imes-that&#39;s not the issue. No fuel in float bodies-they are not leaking=
.=C2=A0 I just cant believe its too much fuel pressure but then again, this=
 is a British Car.=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div>Float is brass but when shaked it is dry. I filled the float lid with =
carb cleaner while holding needle valve closed and no leaking. That&#39;s t=
wo places checked (these are unfortunately &quot;new&quot; parts) Now the n=
ext leak could be between the needle and jet if not closed off-also new par=
ts-jet .090. Needles are QW as specified but i also have a set of ATs which=
 are lean that I am tempted to try. Actually both needles are about the sam=
e at top .089, but ATs are a bit fatter at mid range. Problem is all testin=
g stinks up the garage and creates an explosive atmosphere so best done out=
side in the rain.</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>I know some folks like Grosse Jets-but I don&#39;t-- I prefer the simp=
le brass ones with viton tips which do work if pressure is applied by forke=
d leg-also new, and set to 7/16&quot; or MORE. With covers off, both bowls =
are equally about 1/2 filled. Fuel pressure is a thought as it can push by =
the stops but its the correct pump and when key on clicks fast then slows t=
o a stop... but then tick, tick which it should not do!=C2=A0 Fuel is going=
 out and down the drain tube to my swimming pool drip pan. Im tempted to me=
asure the top of the needles to see if they are really at .089. Can&#39;t m=
easure the new jet but its stamped &quot;9&quot; Maybe stick in a number dr=
ill to see if its round? Mind you, these carbs have about 125 miles total o=
n them. As far as I know these are &quot;genuine SU&quot; parts-not Moss In=
dia knockoffs.</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>I really thought that the centering was the issue and took the carb of=
f for that reason which cured the drop-each drops equally with thud. That&#=
39;s not the problem. Any suggestions? Someone says use plastic floats...Ha=
nk</div>
</div>
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---

From: richard mayor <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2024 09:45:44 -0800

--===============6737948883407551083==
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	charset=utf-8

Hank,  Here is the Moss Motors description of the need for the over-flow =
drain pipes (in the 100M reference):

These pipes are open to the atmosphere, for two reasons: first (and most =
important) they allow the fuel
coming into the float bowl to displace the air in there so the fuel can =
reach its correct level in a timely
manner. Second, if the float valve (needle-and-seat) should stick open =
(as they do when a bit of grit i
trapped on the mating surfaces) the fuel will be piped out and down =E2=80=
=93 away from the engine. If the fuel
could not escape through the overflow pipe, it would pour down the =
carburetor throat into the engine. With
that much liquid gasoline, not all of it will vaporize before the spark =
plug fires. The fuel that does vaporize
will make the mixture so rich (as if the choke were engaged) the car =
will belch black smoke out the
tailpipe. The engine will eventually flood and die. The liquid fuel that =
reaches the cylinders will flush the oil
off the cylinder walls and wind up in the crankcase. If it happens =
frequently, the loss of the oil film on the
cylinder walls can cause premature wear. With gas in the sump, the oil =
is being diluted and the oil needs
to be drained and replaced as soon as practical. We have heard that =
under the right conditions, gasoline
vapors can be ignited in the crankcase with spectacular results, but we =
are still waiting for pictures.

Richard Mayor
[email-masked]

> On Dec 23, 2024, at 4:58=E2=80=AFPM, Roland Wilhelmy =
<[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> My BN1 #724, engine number 139756, has no float bowl drain tubes, just =
the red notched washer and chrome vent at the top screw .  I have never =
had the problems that you report.  The floats are original.  I cleaned =
and rebuilt with a Moss kit.  If one of my carbs worked right and one =
did not, after replacing all rebuild able parts, I would replace the =
malfunctioning carb.  If that fixes things you can explore the faulty =
carb at leisure.  If it doesn't, then the rear carb wasn't the problem.
> -Roland=20
>=20
>=20
> On Mon, Dec 23, 2024, 1:19=E2=80=AFPM Hank Leach via Healeys =
>> Michael-that is why I asked the question in the beginning, Where is =
the fuel coming from and what is the cure for the problem? I agree that =
the fuel is "atomized" in the throttle area and that would be the best =
condition to send it to the engine but this car is dumping fuel and I =
cannot find the mechanism to stop that flow. Suggested lighter nitrile =
floats are at the top of the list, if in fact my brass ones are bum. =
Bill Lawrence modified his intakes possibly due to fuel issues?  The =
system on this early car (same as yours) is a bit "cruder" than the =
revised float bowl vent system (with no manifold drain?). And, I cannot =
see anything wrong the float setting as presently set.
>> The fuel is not coming out the jet with the key off and the float =
bowls full to proper level-it is as you said below the top of the jet. =
Float valves are closed.  Its when the key is on and fuel pressure is =
applied that I am getting the overflow condition. I was hoping that =
someone else on the team has had a similar experience. Hank
>> --------------------=20
>>=20
>> From: "Michael Salter" <[email-masked] =

>> Cc: "Healey team" <[email-masked] =
>> Sent: December 23, 2024 at 12:21 PM PST=20
>> Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube=20
>> In and SU carb,and for that matter almost every other type of =
carburettor, fuel DOES NOT pump out through the jet.=20
>> The fuel level, as mentioned previously, is controlled by the float =
chamber float valve to never actually be above the top of the jet. It is =
only the flow of air across the carburettor "bridge", where the jet is =
positioned, that draws fuel up through the jet to be atomized into the =
airflow and into the inlet manifold.=20
>> This is all related to Bernoulli's principle =
<https://www.google.com/search?client=3Dfirefox-b-d&q=3DBernoulli%27s+prin=
ciple> which is the basis upon which all carburettors work.
>> If fuel is coming out of the jet when the engine is not running then =
the mechanism controlling the float level is not operating correctly.
>> =20
>> M
>> =20
>> On Mon, Dec 23, 2024 at 1:37=E2=80=AFPM Hank Leach via Healeys =
>>> Ah! A rebel in the crowd. I looked at a bunch of photos of 1953 100 =
engines on the web.  Many are configured as mine with NO FLOAT BOWL =
DRAIN TUBES.  The later engine setups have drain tubes in the lid. This =
includes the cars using H6 carbs (Lemans).  Also, on these early designs =
there is a different carb adaptor. Part 1B1672  which has a lower drain =
in the casing up to engine # 139915 (my engine 139563). Of course Moss, =
etc. only sell the later style products. but some books show the solid =
float lids and some show vented lids and some show a lid with a drain =
tube (air vent).
>>> =20
>>> So, in theory the way the early system works; fuel is inlet from the =
float chamber and enters the jet thru a hole in the tube positioned =
between the two gland washers which are to keep the fuel intact. when =
the choke is pulled that jet hole  is lowered to send in, as the British =
say..."a neat petrol supply" to start the car.
>>> Now, if you turn on the key, fuel pumps in and is moved thru the jet =
into the throttle area and into the manifold. Unless the engine is now =
turning and suction from the piston is active, the fuel will run =
haplessly in the intake manifold and out the drain tube to the ground. =
So the important procedure in these early systems is turn the key and =
crank the engine immediately or it will overflow fuel down the drain =
tube.  I'm here testing the operation of the carburetors in a static =
mode-its not going to do anything but spew fuel to the ground. Right?
>>> =20
>>> The later design using a float bowl vent tube also send fuel into =
the manifold but without a drain tube the fuel will go into the engine, =
as the Moss PDF described, diluting the oil and washing the cylinders. =
Sounds like the best method of starting up is to crank the engine as =
soon as you hear the fuel pump click...I typically have waited until the =
pump stopped (float bowls full) before cranking. Live and learn?Hank
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> --------------------=20
>>>=20
>>> From: "WILLIAM B LAWRENCE" <[email-masked] =
>>> To: "Hank Leach via Healeys" <[email-masked] =
>>> Sent: December 22, 2024 at 9:29 PM PST=20
>>> =20
>>> I=E2=80=99d like to be able to answer that, but I have to confess =
I=E2=80=99ve modified the induction system on mine (I know, I=E2=80=99m =
going to Hell) and I=E2=80=99m a little fuzzy on the details. If memory =
serves (a doubtful premise) the float bowls originally had an open vent =
arrangement on the top with no drain tubes. The car was built up from =
several dozen boxes of parts, so that may not have been correct. About =
20 years ago I built a pair of H6s and installed those with drain tubes. =
The car is a bitsa anyway so originality is secondary, or maybe =
tertiary=E2=80=A6
>>> =20
>>> Bill Lawrence
>>> BN1 554
>>> From: Healeys <[email-masked] =
>>> Sent: Monday, December 23, 2024 1:59 AM
>>> To: Bob Haskell <[email-masked] =
>>> =20
>>> Thanks Bob-yes the Moss site confirms they have alternate nitrile =
floats and about $20 each. Looking at the diagram there is a drawing of =
the float chamber overflow AUC1866 (451-250) $24.99 each.  I do not have =
these overflows on my float bowls (as Richard Mayor mentioned their =
location) Instead the early cars have silver vent caps and a red washer =
which allows air out and those two intake manifold copper drain pipes at =
the bottom of the carb intakes. There is a PDF note on that part which =
reads:
>>> =20
>>> "These pipes are open to the atmosphere, for two reasons: first (and =
most important) they allow the fuel coming into the float bowl to =
displace the air in there so the fuel can reach its correct level in a =
timely manner. Second, if the float valve (needle-and-seat) should stick =
open (as they do when a bit of grit is trapped on the mating surfaces) =
the fuel will be piped out and down =E2=80=93 away from the engine. If =
the fuel could not escape through the overflow pipe, it would pour down =
the carburetor throat into the engine. With that much liquid gasoline, =
not all of it will vaporize before the spark plug fires. The fuel that =
does vaporize will make the mixture so rich (as if the choke were =
engaged) the car will belch black smoke out the tailpipe. The engine =
will eventually flood and die."
>>> =20
>>> The point here is that not having those overflows on the float =
bowls; the overflow is actually after the throttle plates on my car. I =
wonder how Bill Lawrence's early car is configured and if he has float =
bowl overflows or intake overflows? Is it possible that this is a clue =
to my delima? Trapped air? Hank
>>> --------------------=20
>>>=20
>>> From: "Bob Haskell" <[email-masked] =
>>> Cc: "healeys" <[email-masked] =
>>> Sent: December 22, 2024 at 4:28 PM PST=20
>>>=20
>>> I think the newest floats are made from nitrile rubber - nitrophyl, =
not plastic.  Supposedly unsinkable.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> I actually cannot figure where all the fuel is coming from. In =
static mode-key off and float bowls at proper level-with dashpot and =
piston removed, no fuel is apparent (as Michael says about 1/8" below =
jet or as you say equal to float setting). However, with key on and =
carbs together it's a different story-fuel is flowing steadily. The =
suggestion that was made that we really need to have clear plastic float =
bowls has merit. I cannot tell if the brass float is pushing hard enough =
to shut off the peg on the valve. When held shut by hand its positive.
>>> =20
>>> If the float is "heavy", then it will not effect enough pressure on =
the peg to stop the flow. This is why someone suggested plastic floats =
instead of brass. Fuel is the shut off mechanism. I have swapped float =
and needle valves from front to rear carb in hopes that the front one =
will now start leaking. That may be a clue to the issue. Waiting for a =
dry day (next year?) to test that theory.
>>> --------------------=20
>>>=20
>>> From: "richard mayor" <[email-masked]> =
>>> Cc: "healeys" <[email-masked]> =
>>> Sent: December 22, 2024 at 2:23 PM PST=20
>>> Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube=20
>>> Hank,
>>> =20
>>> If I read your post correctly, the fuel is coming out of the jet in =
the carburetor into the intake manifold and then out the drain tube.  =
Not from the overflow tube on the float chamber. I=E2=80=99ll proceed =
with this assumption.
>>> =20
>>> The level of fuel at the jet is the same level as that in the float =
chamber. That is the way these SU carbs are designed. That is why float =
level is so important.  If fuel is flowing out of  the jet before the =
needle valve shuts off the fuel supply at the float chamber then your =
float level is set too high.  You need to close the float needle valve =
with the float at a lower level. Instead of using 7/16th as a guide, try =
1/2=E2=80=9D and see if that stops the flow.  But then you said you =
tried different settings.=20
>>> =20
>>> Is there an obstruction that is preventing the float from rising all =
the way to the top to close the needle valve?  Try a different float. =
Polish the post.  Is there any wear in the fork or pivot in the casting =
that is not allowing the needle to move feely into it=E2=80=99s seat.  I =
think that=E2=80=99s where the problem is.=20
>>>=20
>>> Richard Mayor
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> On Dec 22, 2024, at 12:28=E2=80=AFPM, Hank Leach via Healeys =
>>>  I have chased the cause of too much fuel exiting from the rear =
carburetor overflow of my 100 for years. These are H4 carbs-very simple =
design, but must be done correctly to perform. So I find that the jet is =
out of center and piston is sticking up above the flat about 1/8"-that =
would allow fuel to run into throttle area and out overflow drain tube.=20=

>>> =20
>>> No way to center jet on car. Remove carburetor-a 4 hour job- and =
clean and replace gaskets and gland washers-yes cork- and reassemble and =
center jet...now works perfect. Re mount carburetor and connect fuel =
lines-another 4 hour job.  Both carb pistons drop with a clunk at the =
same time.  Turn on key- fuel pump clicking-overflow again leaking.=20
>>> =20
>>> I have reset the floats and float needles (brass) were replaced many =
times-that's not the issue. No fuel in float bodies-they are not =
leaking.  I just cant believe its too much fuel pressure but then again, =
this is a British Car.=20
>>> Float is brass but when shaked it is dry. I filled the float lid =
with carb cleaner while holding needle valve closed and no leaking. =
That's two places checked (these are unfortunately "new" parts) Now the =
next leak could be between the needle and jet if not closed off-also new =
parts-jet .090. Needles are QW as specified but i also have a set of ATs =
which are lean that I am tempted to try. Actually both needles are about =
the same at top .089, but ATs are a bit fatter at mid range. Problem is =
all testing stinks up the garage and creates an explosive atmosphere so =
best done outside in the rain.
>>> =20
>>> I know some folks like Grosse Jets-but I don't-- I prefer the simple =
brass ones with viton tips which do work if pressure is applied by =
forked leg-also new, and set to 7/16" or MORE. With covers off, both =
bowls are equally about 1/2 filled. Fuel pressure is a thought as it can =
push by the stops but its the correct pump and when key on clicks fast =
then slows to a stop... but then tick, tick which it should not do!  =
Fuel is going out and down the drain tube to my swimming pool drip pan. =
Im tempted to measure the top of the needles to see if they are really =
at .089. Can't measure the new jet but its stamped "9" Maybe stick in a =
number drill to see if its round? Mind you, these carbs have about 125 =
miles total on them. As far as I know these are "genuine SU" parts-not =
Moss India knockoffs.
>>> =20
>>> I really thought that the centering was the issue and took the carb =
off for that reason which cured the drop-each drops equally with thud. =
That's not the problem. Any suggestions? Someone says use plastic =
floats...Hank
>>>=20
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
>>>=20
>>>=20
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>>>=20
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--Apple-Mail=_8E660622-E690-4FAD-8D6B-45E7DB09DF66
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div>Hank, =
&nbsp;Here is the Moss Motors description of the need for the over-flow =
drain pipes (in the 100M reference):</div><div><br></div><div><div>These =
pipes are open to the atmosphere, for two reasons: first (and most =
important) they allow the fuel</div><div>coming into the float bowl to =
displace the air in there so the fuel can reach its correct level in a =
timely</div><div>manner. Second, if the float valve (needle-and-seat) =
should stick open (as they do when a bit of grit i</div><div>trapped on =
the mating surfaces) the fuel will be piped out and down =E2=80=93 away =
from the engine. If the fuel</div><div>could not escape through the =
overflow pipe, it would pour down the carburetor throat into the engine. =
With</div><div>that much liquid gasoline, not all of it will vaporize =
before the spark plug fires. The fuel that does vaporize</div><div>will =
make the mixture so rich (as if the choke were engaged) the car will =
belch black smoke out the</div><div>tailpipe. The engine will eventually =
flood and die. The liquid fuel that reaches the cylinders will flush the =
oil</div><div>off the cylinder walls and wind up in the crankcase. If it =
happens frequently, the loss of the oil film on the</div><div>cylinder =
walls can cause premature wear. With gas in the sump, the oil is being =
diluted and the oil needs</div><div>to be drained and replaced as soon =
as practical. We have heard that under the right conditions, =
gasoline</div><div>vapors can be ignited in the crankcase with =
spectacular results, but we are still waiting for =
pictures.</div></div><br id=3D"lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage"><div>
<div>Richard =
Mayor</div><div>[email-masked]</div><div><br></div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">

</div>
<div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On Dec 23, 2024, at 4:58=E2=80=AFP=
M, Roland Wilhelmy &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div><meta charset=3D"UTF-8"><p =
dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;">My BN1 #724, engine number 139756, has no float bowl drain tubes, =
just the red notched washer and chrome vent at the top screw .&nbsp; I =
have never had the problems that you report.&nbsp; The floats are =
original.&nbsp; I cleaned and rebuilt with a Moss kit.&nbsp; If one of =
my carbs worked right and one did not, after replacing all rebuild able =
parts, I would replace the malfunctioning carb.&nbsp; If that fixes =
things you can explore the faulty carb at leisure.&nbsp; If it doesn't, =
then the rear carb wasn't the problem.<br>-Roland<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></p><br style=3D"caret-color:=
 rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container" =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Dec 23, 2024, 1:19=E2=80=AFPM Hank Leach =
via Healeys &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; =
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: =
1ex;"><div>Michael-that is why I asked the question in the beginning, =
Where is the fuel coming from and what is the cure for the problem? I =
agree that the fuel is "atomized" in the throttle area and that would be =
the best condition to send it to the engine but this car is dumping fuel =
and I cannot find the mechanism to stop that flow. Suggested lighter =
nitrile floats are at the top of the list, if in fact my brass ones are =
bum. Bill Lawrence modified his intakes possibly due to fuel =
issues?&nbsp; The system on this early car (same as yours) is a bit =
"cruder" than the revised float bowl vent system (with no manifold =
drain?). And, I cannot see anything wrong the float setting as presently =
set.</div><div>The fuel is not coming out the jet with the key off and =
the float bowls full to proper level-it is as you said below the top of =
the jet. Float valves are closed.&nbsp; Its when the key is on and fuel =
pressure is applied that I am getting the overflow condition. I was =
hoping that someone else on the team has had a similar experience. =
Hank<br>--------------------<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><br>From: "Michael =
Salter" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
rel=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>To: "Hank Leach" &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
rel=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>Cc: "Healey team" =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
rel=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>Sent: December 23, 2024 =
at 12:21 PM PST<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] =
overflowing fuel into intake drain tube<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div><div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family: arial, sans-serif; =
font-size: small;">Sorry Hank but I think you have that wrong.</div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family: arial, sans-serif; =
font-size: small;">In and SU carb,and for that matter almost every other =
type of carburettor, fuel DOES NOT pump out through the jet.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family: arial, sans-serif; =
font-size: small;">The fuel level, as mentioned previously, is =
controlled by the float chamber float valve to never actually be above =
the top of the jet. It is only the flow of air across the carburettor =
"bridge", where the jet is positioned, that draws fuel up through the =
jet to be atomized into the airflow and into the inlet manifold.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family: arial, sans-serif; =
font-size: small;">This is all related to<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"https://www.google.com/search?client=3Dfirefox-b-d&amp;q=3DBernoul=
li%27s+principle" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">Bernoulli's =
principle</a><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>which is =
the basis upon which all carburettors work.</div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family: arial, sans-serif; =
font-size: small;">If fuel is coming out of the jet when the engine is =
not running then the mechanism controlling the float level is not =
operating correctly.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: =
small;">&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family: =
arial, sans-serif; font-size: small;">M</div></div><div>&nbsp;</div><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Dec 23, 2024 at =
1:37=E2=80=AFPM Hank Leach via Healeys &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
rel=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; =
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div>Ah! A =
rebel in the crowd. I looked at a bunch of photos of 1953 100 engines on =
the web.&nbsp; Many are configured as mine with NO FLOAT BOWL DRAIN =
TUBES.&nbsp; The<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><em>later<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></em>engine setups have =
drain tubes in the lid. This includes the cars using H6 carbs =
(Lemans).&nbsp; Also, on these early designs there is a different carb =
adaptor. Part 1B1672&nbsp; which has a lower drain in the casing<span =
style=3D"text-decoration: underline;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>up to engine # =
139915</span><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>(my =
engine 139563). Of course Moss, etc. only sell the later style products. =
but some books show the solid float lids and some show vented lids and =
some show a lid with a drain tube (air =
vent).</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>So, in theory the way the early system =
works; fuel is inlet from the float chamber and enters the jet thru a =
hole in the tube positioned between the two gland washers which are to =
keep the fuel intact. when the choke is pulled that jet hole&nbsp; is =
lowered to send in, as the British say..."a neat petrol supply" to start =
the car.</div><div>Now, if you turn on the key, fuel pumps in and is =
moved thru the jet into the throttle area and into the manifold.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"text-decoration: underline;">Unless the engine is now =
turning</span><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>and =
suction from the piston is active, the fuel will run haplessly in the =
intake manifold and out the drain tube to the ground. So the important =
procedure in these early systems is turn the key and crank the =
engine<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"text-decoration: underline;">immediately</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>or it will overflow fuel =
down the drain tube.&nbsp; I'm here testing the operation of the =
carburetors in a static mode-its not going to do anything but spew fuel =
to the ground. Right?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>The later design using =
a float bowl vent tube also send fuel into the manifold but without a =
drain tube the fuel will go into the engine, as the Moss PDF described, =
diluting the oil and washing the cylinders. Sounds like the best method =
of starting up is to crank the engine as soon as you hear the fuel pump =
click...I typically have waited until the pump stopped (float bowls =
full) before cranking. Live and =
learn?Hank</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><br>--------------------<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><br>From: "WILLIAM B =
LAWRENCE" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener =
noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>To: "Hank Leach via =
Healeys" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener =
noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;, "Bob =
Haskell" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener =
noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;, "richard =
mayor" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener =
noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;, &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>Sent: December 22, 2024 =
at 9:29 PM PST<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] =
overflowing fuel into intake drain tube</div><div style=3D"font-family: =
inherit; font-size: inherit; color: inherit; background-color: =
transparent;">&nbsp;</div><div style=3D"font-family: inherit; font-size: =
inherit; color: inherit; background-color: transparent;">I=E2=80=99d =
like to be able to answer that, but I have to confess I=E2=80=99ve =
modified the induction system on mine (I know, I=E2=80=99m going to =
Hell) and I=E2=80=99m a little fuzzy on the details. If memory serves (a =
doubtful premise) the float bowls originally had an open vent =
arrangement on the top with no drain tubes. The car was built up from =
several dozen boxes of parts, so that may not have been correct. About =
20 years ago I built a pair of H6s and installed those with drain tubes. =
The car is a bitsa anyway so originality is secondary, or maybe =
tertiary=E2=80=A6</div><div style=3D"font-family: inherit; font-size: =
inherit; color: inherit; background-color: =
transparent;">&nbsp;</div><div style=3D"font-family: inherit; font-size: =
inherit; color: inherit; background-color: transparent;">Bill =
Lawrence</div><div style=3D"font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; =
color: inherit; background-color: transparent;">BN1 554</div><hr =
style=3D"display: inline-block; width: 719.734375px;"><div =
id=3D"m_3659040959950062496m_-6618822986480632876divRplyFwdMsg"><strong>Fr=
om:</strong><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Healeys =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener =
noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; on =
behalf of Hank Leach via Healeys &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><strong>Sent:</strong>=
<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Monday, December 23, =
2024 1:59 AM<br><strong>To:</strong><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Bob Haskell &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; richard mayor &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><strong>Cc:</strong><sp=
an class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>healeys &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><strong>Subject:</stro=
ng><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Healeys] =
overflowing fuel into intake drain =
tube<div>&nbsp;</div></div><div><div>Thanks Bob-yes the Moss site =
confirms they have alternate nitrile floats and about $20 each. Looking =
at the diagram there is a drawing of the float chamber overflow AUC1866 =
(451-250) $24.99 each.&nbsp; I do not have these overflows on my float =
bowls (as Richard Mayor mentioned their location) Instead the early cars =
have silver vent caps and a red washer which allows air out and those =
two intake manifold copper drain pipes at the bottom of the carb =
intakes. There is a PDF note on that part which =
reads:</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>"These pipes are open to the =
atmosphere, for two reasons: first (and most important) they allow the =
fuel coming into the float bowl to displace the air in there so the fuel =
can reach its correct level in a timely manner. Second, if the float =
valve (needle-and-seat) should stick open (as they do when a bit of grit =
is trapped on the mating surfaces) the fuel will be piped out and down =
=E2=80=93 away from the engine. If the<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><strong>fuel could not =
escape through the overflow pipe, it would pour down the carburetor =
throat into the engine</strong>. With that much liquid gasoline, not all =
of it will vaporize before the spark plug fires. The fuel that does =
vaporize will make the mixture so rich (as if the choke were engaged) =
the car will belch black smoke out the tailpipe. The engine will =
eventually flood and die."</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>The point here is =
that not having those overflows on the float bowls; the overflow is =
actually after the throttle plates on my car. I wonder how Bill =
Lawrence's early car is configured and if he has float bowl overflows or =
intake overflows? Is it possible that this is a clue to my delima? =
Trapped air? Hank</div><div>--------------------&nbsp;<br><br>From: "Bob =
Haskell" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener =
noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>To: &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;, "richard mayor" &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>Cc: "healeys" &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>Sent: December 22, 2024 =
at 4:28 PM PST<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] =
overflowing fuel into intake drain tube</div><p>Hank,</p><p>I think the =
newest floats are made from nitrile rubber - nitrophyl, not =
plastic.&nbsp; Supposedly unsinkable.</p><p>Cheers,</p><pre>Bob Haskell
Austin-Healey 3000 roadster registrar</pre><div>On 12/22/24 17:49, Hank =
Leach via Healeys wrote:</div><blockquote><div>I actually cannot figure =
where all the fuel is coming from. In static mode-key off and float =
bowls at proper level-with dashpot and piston removed, no fuel is =
apparent (as Michael says about 1/8" below jet or as you say equal to =
float setting). However, with key on and carbs together it's a different =
story-fuel is flowing steadily. The suggestion that was made that we =
really need to have clear plastic float bowls has merit. I cannot tell =
if the brass float is pushing hard enough to shut off the peg on the =
valve. When held shut by hand its =
positive.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>If the float is "heavy", then it =
will not effect enough pressure on the peg to stop the flow. This is why =
someone suggested plastic floats instead of brass. Fuel is the shut off =
mechanism. I have swapped float and needle valves from front to rear =
carb in hopes that the front one will now start leaking. That may be a =
clue to the issue. Waiting for a dry day (next year?) to test that =
theory.<br>--------------------<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><br>From: "richard =
mayor"<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a><br>To: "Leach =
Hank"<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a><br>Cc: "healeys"<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a><br>Sent: December =
22, 2024 at 2:23 PM PST<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] =
overflowing fuel into intake drain tube<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>Hank,</div><div>&nbsp;</d=
iv><div>If I read your post correctly, the fuel is coming out of the jet =
in the carburetor into the intake manifold and then out the drain =
tube.&nbsp; Not from the overflow tube on the float chamber. I=E2=80=99ll =
proceed with this assumption.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>The level of =
fuel at the jet is the same level as that in the float chamber. That is =
the way these SU carbs are designed. That is why float level is so =
important.&nbsp; If fuel is flowing out of &nbsp;the jet before the =
needle valve shuts off the fuel supply at the float chamber then your =
float level is set too high.&nbsp; You need to close the float needle =
valve with the float at a lower level. Instead of using 7/16th as a =
guide, try 1/2=E2=80=9D and see if that stops the flow.&nbsp; But then =
you said you tried different =
settings.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Is there an obstruction that =
is preventing the float from rising all the way to the top to close the =
needle valve?&nbsp; Try a different float. Polish the post.&nbsp; Is =
there any wear in the fork or pivot in the casting that is not allowing =
the needle to move feely into it=E2=80=99s seat.&nbsp; I think that=E2=80=99=
s where the problem is.&nbsp;</div><div><br =
id=3D"m_3659040959950062496m_-6618822986480632876x_lineBreakAtBeginningOfM=
essage"><div><div>Richard Mayor</div><div><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a></div><div>&nbsp;</div></div><d=
iv><br><blockquote><div>On Dec 22, 2024, at 12:28=E2=80=AFPM, Hank Leach =
via Healeys<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>wrote:</div><div><div><div>&n=
bsp;I have chased the cause of too much fuel exiting from the rear =
carburetor overflow of my 100 for years. These are H4 carbs-very simple =
design, but must be done correctly to perform. So I find that the jet is =
out of center and piston is sticking up above the flat about 1/8"-that =
would allow fuel to run into throttle area and out overflow drain =
tube.&nbsp;<div>&nbsp;</div><div>No way to center jet on car. Remove =
carburetor-a 4 hour job- and clean and replace gaskets and gland =
washers-yes cork- and reassemble and center jet...now works perfect. Re =
mount carburetor and connect fuel lines-another 4 hour job.&nbsp; Both =
carb pistons drop with a clunk at the same time.&nbsp; Turn on key- fuel =
pump clicking-overflow again leaking.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>I =
have reset the floats and float needles (brass) were replaced many =
times-that's not the issue. No fuel in float bodies-they are not =
leaking.&nbsp; I just cant believe its too much fuel pressure but then =
again, this is a British Car.&nbsp;</div></div><div>Float is brass but =
when shaked it is dry. I filled the float lid with carb cleaner while =
holding needle valve closed and no leaking. That's two places checked =
(these are unfortunately "new" parts) Now the next leak could be between =
the needle and jet if not closed off-also new parts-jet .090. Needles =
are QW as specified but i also have a set of ATs which are lean that I =
am tempted to try. Actually both needles are about the same at top .089, =
but ATs are a bit fatter at mid range. Problem is all testing stinks up =
the garage and creates an explosive atmosphere so best done outside in =
the rain.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>I know some folks like Grosse =
Jets-but I don't-- I prefer the simple brass ones with viton tips which =
do work if pressure is applied by forked leg-also new, and set to 7/16" =
or MORE. With covers off, both bowls are equally about 1/2 filled. Fuel =
pressure is a thought as it can push by the stops but its the correct =
pump and when key on clicks fast then slows to a stop... but then tick, =
tick which it should not do!&nbsp; Fuel is going out and down the drain =
tube to my swimming pool drip pan. Im tempted to measure the top of the =
needles to see if they are really at .089. Can't measure the new jet but =
its stamped "9" Maybe stick in a number drill to see if its round? Mind =
you, these carbs have about 125 miles total on them. As far as I know =
these are "genuine SU" parts-not Moss India =
knockoffs.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>I really thought that the =
centering was the issue and took the carb off for that reason which =
cured the drop-each drops equally with thud. That's not the problem. Any =
suggestions? Someone says use plastic =
floats...Hank</div></div>_______________________________________________<b=
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