Subject: [Healeys] Hardened seats in a cast iron 100 head

From: Michael Salter <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2024 10:44:04 -0400

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I am still using cast iron heads on both my 100's. Amazingly neither have
serious cracks as are so common on these.
I am really picky and don't particularly like the different sound that a
100 engine with an aluminium head makes so would like to continue using
these cast iron ones.
I'm contemplating installing hardened seats in one.
Hase anyone done this successfully?

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<div dir=3D"auto">I am still using cast iron heads on both my 100&#39;s. Am=
azingly neither have serious cracks as are so common on these.<div dir=3D"a=
uto">I am really picky and don&#39;t particularly like the different sound =
that a 100 engine with an aluminium head makes so would like to continue us=
ing these cast iron ones.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto">I&#39;m contemplatin=
g installing hardened seats in one.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto">Hase anyon=
e done this successfully?</div></div>

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_______________________________________________

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From: Hank Leach via Healeys <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2024 17:23:24 +0000 /riZzMCyyRvcutCIMkXmpYLhhRLYpmv6/yvtdH399hwrJYc24rM+AzmsnMZlyN1IIzlbHOYvktr/4AXDqsFH4KBEciFcltiiX6vTsg4NlIXajeACF5JxkdNd

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<div>I do not recommend that you do hardened seats. Chance of damage to the=
 head is high and then you will be stuck with Aluminum.</div>
<div>There is no need to change the seats just because we lost lead in fuel=
 or that octane is reduced. If you drove the car daily and put on mega =
miles a year this might be a consideration but with today's conditions that=
 probably is not going to happen. The seats will last forever.</div>
<div>Lead to reduce knock was only needed in the early 1900's when ignition=
 equipment was poorly designed. The entire lead fiasco was a ruse by the =
Ethyl industry to sell fuel...it was never needed and finally banned in all=
 but 6 countries.</div>
<div>The "additional" advantage of cooling the =
valves was not much of a benefit and lead substitutes today are just =
alcohol and not really effective.&nbsp; Exhaust valves run at 1800 degrees =
despite lead or lead substitutes. Don't waste your time/money or risk your =
head!&nbsp; &nbsp;See my article in <em>Austin-Healey Magazine</em> Nov. =
2020 "Get the Lead Out!" Hank<br>-------------------- <br><br>From: =
"Michael Salter" &lt;[email-masked]&gt; <br>To: &lt;healeys@autox.=
team.net&gt; <br>Sent: August 25, 2024 at 8:09 AM PDT <br>Subject: =
[Healeys] Hardened seats in a cast iron 100 head </div>
<div>I am still using cast iron heads on both my 100's. Amazingly neither =
have serious cracks as are so common on these.
<div>I am really picky and =
don't particularly like the different sound that a 100 engine with an =
aluminium head makes so would like to continue using these cast iron ones.=
&nbsp;</div>
<div>I'm contemplating installing hardened seats in one.=
&nbsp;</div>
<div>Hase anyone done this successfully?</div>
</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>

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[email-masked]

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From: Bob Spidell via Healeys <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 08:43:45 -0700

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Full story: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Midgley_Jr. and 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraethyllead

In a book on aircraft maintenance I have buried in a box somewhere there 
was more: Midgely, at Sloan-Kettering--inventors of the electric starter 
BTW--tested over 4,000 compounds and found tetraethyl lead (TEL) to be 
most effective at preventing detonation, allowing higher octane fuel 
hence more powerful, higher-compression engines (and, presumably, it was 
suitably cheap--this is the first I've heard of this conspiracy theory, 
though it's plausible). Allegedly a serendipitous side effect, TEL 
causes thin elemental lead deposits to build on exhaust valve seats 
which offered protection--a sort of cushion--from erosion of the seat 
onto the valve backside of the valve (and does somewhat cool the valve). 
I have never come across anything that attributes the need for TEL to 
'poorly designed' ignition systems (I'm open to evidence). ICE aircraft 
engines have used magnetos almost from Day 1--SS systems have been tried 
but generally found lacking--and most engines have two (they'll run on 
one, but produce more power and run smoother on both). A properly tuned 
magneto will throw a massive spark and they are quite (necessarily) 
reliable (dirt track cars, for one, still use them, requiring push 
starts). They're usually timed at 20-25deg BTDC and have no provision 
for advance/retard. Modern small engines, from chainsaws and lawnmowers 
to quads, use a form of magneto, driven and timed off the crankshaft. I 
sometimes tell people piston aircraft engines are glorified lawnmower 
engines.

Gasoline for ICE aircraft--'avgas'--still contains a significant amount 
of TEL; enough that, in some lower-compression engines elemental lead 
can form on spark plug electrodes causing misfiring, which can be burned 
off with a short ground run at high RPM at max lean condition. There is 
considerable research ongoing to create a suitable replacement for TEL 
in ICE aircraft engines and, IIRC, there is a mandate from the FAA to 
remove it (someday). The major engine manufacturers, Continental and 
Lycoming, are quite resistant as they get enough lawsuits already. Since 
ICE aircraft cylinder heads are aluminium they have always required 
inserts.

As for conspiracies, Henry Ford initially wanted to use ethanol--he 
could refine his own, like he tried to make his own rubber in S. 
America--as fuel for his cars, but someone--I believe it was 
Rockefeller--'convinced' him to use gasoline which, at the time, was a 
nuisance byproduct of the refining process of kerosene for lamps. See 
also: How Ford and Firestone conspired to 'kill' public transportation 
in US cities.

On 8/25/2024 10:23 AM, Hank Leach via Healeys wrote:
> I do not recommend that you do hardened seats. Chance of damage to the 
> head is high and then you will be stuck with Aluminum.
> There is no need to change the seats just because we lost lead in fuel 
> or that octane is reduced. If you drove the car daily and put on mega 
> miles a year this might be a consideration but with today's conditions 
> that probably is not going to happen. The seats will last forever.
> Lead to reduce knock was only needed in the early 1900's when ignition 
> equipment was poorly designed. The entire lead fiasco was a ruse by 
> the Ethyl industry to sell fuel...it was never needed and finally 
> banned in all but 6 countries.
> The "additional" advantage of cooling the valves was not much of a 
> benefit and lead substitutes today are just alcohol and not really 
> effective.  Exhaust valves run at 1800 degrees despite lead or lead 
> substitutes. Don't waste your time/money or risk your head!   See my 
> article in /Austin-Healey Magazine/ Nov. 2020 "Get the Lead Out!" Hank
> --------------------
>
> From: "Michael Salter" <[email-masked]>
> To: <[email-masked]>
> Sent: August 25, 2024 at 8:09 AM PDT
> Subject: [Healeys] Hardened seats in a cast iron 100 head
> I am still using cast iron heads on both my 100's. Amazingly neither 
> I am really picky and don't particularly like the different sound that 
> a 100 engine with an aluminium head makes so would like to continue 
> using these cast iron ones.
> Support Team.Nethttp://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>
> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys  http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys
>
> [email-masked]
> Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]
>

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  <body>
    Full story: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Midgley_Jr">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Midgley_Jr</a>. and
    <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraethyllead">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraethyllead</a><br>
    <br>
    In a book on aircraft maintenance I have buried in a box somewhere
    there was more: Midgely, at Sloan-Kettering--inventors of the
    electric starter BTW--tested over 4,000 compounds and found
    tetraethyl lead (TEL) to be most effective at preventing detonation,
    allowing higher octane fuel hence more powerful, higher-compression
    engines (and, presumably, it was suitably cheap--this is the first
    I've heard of this conspiracy theory, though it's plausible).
    Allegedly a serendipitous side effect, TEL causes thin elemental
    lead deposits to build on exhaust valve seats which offered
    protection--a sort of cushion--from erosion of the seat onto the
    valve backside of the valve (and does somewhat cool the valve). I
    have never come across anything that attributes the need for TEL to
    'poorly designed' ignition systems (I'm open to evidence). ICE
    aircraft engines have used magnetos almost from Day 1--SS systems
    have been tried but generally found lacking--and most engines have
    two (they'll run on one, but produce more power and run smoother on
    both). A properly tuned magneto will throw a massive spark and they
    are quite (necessarily) reliable (dirt track cars, for one, still
    use them, requiring push starts). They're usually timed at 20-25deg
    BTDC and have no provision for advance/retard. Modern small engines,
    from chainsaws and lawnmowers to quads, use a form of magneto,
    driven and timed off the crankshaft. I sometimes tell people piston
    aircraft engines are glorified lawnmower engines. <br>
    <br>
    Gasoline for ICE aircraft--'avgas'--still contains a significant
    amount of TEL; enough that, in some lower-compression engines
    elemental lead can form on spark plug electrodes causing misfiring,
    which can be burned off with a short ground run at high RPM at max
    lean condition. There is considerable research ongoing to create a
    suitable replacement for TEL in ICE aircraft engines and, IIRC,
    there is a mandate from the FAA to remove it (someday). The major
    engine manufacturers, Continental and Lycoming, are quite resistant
    as they get enough lawsuits already. Since ICE aircraft cylinder
    heads are aluminium they have always required inserts. <br>
    <br>
    As for conspiracies, Henry Ford initially wanted to use ethanol--he
    could refine his own, like he tried to make his own rubber in S.
    America--as fuel for his cars, but someone--I believe it was
    Rockefeller--'convinced' him to use gasoline which, at the time, was
    a nuisance byproduct of the refining process of kerosene for lamps.
    See also: How Ford and Firestone conspired to 'kill' public
    transportation in US cities. <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/25/2024 10:23 AM, Hank Leach via
      Healeys wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div>I do not recommend that you do hardened seats. Chance of
        damage to the head is high and then you will be stuck with
        Aluminum.</div>
      <div>There is no need to change the seats just because we lost
        lead in fuel or that octane is reduced. If you drove the car
        daily and put on mega miles a year this might be a consideration
        but with today's conditions that probably is not going to
        happen. The seats will last forever.</div>
      <div>Lead to reduce knock was only needed in the early 1900's when
        ignition equipment was poorly designed. The entire lead fiasco
        was a ruse by the Ethyl industry to sell fuel...it was never
        needed and finally banned in all but 6 countries.</div>
      <div>The "additional" advantage of cooling the valves was not much
        of a benefit and lead substitutes today are just alcohol and not
        really effective.  Exhaust valves run at 1800 degrees despite
        lead or lead substitutes. Don't waste your time/money or risk
        your head!   See my article in <em>Austin-Healey Magazine</em>
        Nov. 2020 "Get the Lead Out!" Hank<br>
        -------------------- <br>
        <br>
        From: "Michael Salter" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a> <br>
        To: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a> <br>
        Sent: August 25, 2024 at 8:09 AM PDT <br>
        Subject: [Healeys] Hardened seats in a cast iron 100 head </div>
      <div>I am still using cast iron heads on both my 100's. Amazingly
        neither have serious cracks as are so common on these.
        <div>I am really picky and don't particularly like the different
          sound that a 100 engine with an aluminium head makes so would
          like to continue using these cast iron ones. </div>
        <div>I'm contemplating installing hardened seats in one. </div>
        <div>Hase anyone done this successfully?</div>
      </div>
      <div> </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________

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