Subject: Re: [Healeys] Healeys Digest, Vol 16, Issue 299

From: Craig Cooper <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 12:09:20 -0800

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Re: Recent 100 M on BaT

Rick and Bob:  I did it.  I was the one who posted on BaT Nov.16 that there
is a problem with the front shock towers and maybe half a dozen other
issues that went unanswered.  Being incredulous at the number of issues on
the bottom of the car, considering how glowingly it was being presented, I
showed the pictures to my fellow Healey 100 obsessed neighbor who said
"Aren't those BN1 shock towers?"  I had also recently watched the walk
around video and simply couldn't contain myself.  Maybe it would have been
better to just reach out to the seller, but I didn't think of that until
just now.  Contrary to being savage, I think my remarks showed restraint.
There is a lot more there, and I didn't mention any of the top side
problems.  (Bob, I laughed when I read your "ashtray delete" remark)  I
think the open discussion of shortcomings of cars listed on BaT benefits
both the buyer and the seller.  Imagine the embarrassment of a neophyte
Healey 100 enthusiast having  paid top dollar for this car entering it in a
concours ("would be welcome and do well in any concours") and having it
judged to AH Club USA concours standards, or more likely declined to be
judged.  Think he might seek legal remedy?  I wouldn't want to be the guy
who sold it to him.

On Sun, Dec 17, 2023 at 11:01=E2=80=AFAM <[email-masked]> w=
rote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Recent 100M on BAT (Mark Bradakis)
>    2. Re: Recent 100M on BAT (Bob Spidell)
>    3. Re: Recent 100M on BAT ([email-masked])
>    4. Re: Recent 100M on BAT (David Masucci)
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Mark Bradakis <[email-masked]>
> To: [email-masked]
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 13:56:44 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT
> On 12/16/23 9:55 AM, Curtis Arndt via Healeys wrote:
> > Regarding the 100M Registry, Lynn Martin and I volunteered to take over
> > the registry, but after several hours of discussion, the cost of doing
> > so came up and we decided that the price of admission was way too high
> > for something with little to no financial gain and a lot of work
> involved.
>
> Try running Team Net for 30+ years!
>
> mjb.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>
> To: HealeyRick <[email-masked]>
> Cc: Michael Oritt <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]" <
> [email-masked]>
> Bcc:
> Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 16:43:03 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT
> Rick,
>
> Last I heard, the owner was working with BaT to present another listing
> for this car (or did it sell?). If it's presented truthfully, as having a
> replacement chassis and possibly carbs and distributor I'd have no issues
> with it; it is, essentially, an 'M equivalent' with a (likely) reduced
> price. The commenters did a potential buyer a favor; if s/he knows what
> s/he got, and is happy with it, that's great.
>
> Bob
>
>
> On 12/16/2023 9:31 AM, HealeyRick wrote:
>
> Bob,
>
>      As I prepare to write this month's "Auction Report" for the *Healey
> Marque *this 100M discussion has been really helpful and interesting. I
> think your comment  " I was surprised Bill let the incorrect carbs and
> distributor slide "  raises a great question of what exactly is the 100M
> certificate certifying? Bill Meade has written an article on what needs t=
o
> be presented to be certified.
> https://www.100mregistry.com/PROTECTING_YOUR_100M_Feb_2013.pdf
> <https://www.100mregistry.com/PROTECTING_YOUR_100M_Feb_2013.pdf>   But it
> seems to me it mainly focuses on the body parts that it left the factory
> with. I find it interesting there's no necessity for pictures of the engi=
ne
> number.  And even if all the body parts, carbs, and distributor aren't
> there, Bill says in the article  "If some of these items are missing, let
> the Registry know. It normally does not prevent registration provided
> enough ID points are present."  So my impression, which I'll try to verif=
y
> with Bill, is the certification is focused on the question whether this i=
s
> the car that left the factory that matches the BMIHT certificate saying i=
t
> had a louvered hood and not so much on whether it still has all the
> original parts an M would have come with.
>       I think one of the benefits of the BaT comments for buyers (and
> probably not so much for sellers) is pointing out major deficiencies with
> an offering. Some buyer might have paid way more this car than it would b=
e
> worth if not for the "savage" comments.
>
> Happy Healeydays
> Rick Neville
>
> On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 11:46=E2=80=AFAM Bob Spidell <[email-masked]=
t> wrote:
>
>> I think that's indisputable (I unintentionally neglected to mention that
>> aspect). That, and the fact the kits were selling made a case for sellin=
g
>> the M (these days, that would take an army of marketing people to figure
>> out, with lots of 'data' of course, and maybe some AI). Doesn't negate t=
he
>> strong showing of taking, IIRC, 3 cars off the lot--or was that the
>> Bonneville cars?--hanging a few fancy bits on it and giving the bespoke
>> Ferraris, Jags, Astons, Mercedeses etc. a run for their money (the Heale=
ys'
>> rugged simplicity likely helped). DMH was a brilliant marketer and
>> salesman; he spotted the 'niche' hole between lower--performance MGs--we=
're
>> talking TCs and TDs, not Bs and Cs--and higher-performance but much more
>> expensive Jaguars and plugged it. History says he drove cross-county in =
the
>> US to gauge the market; probably why he made overdrive an option from th=
e
>> get-go, for the wide-open US highways. I don't know Triumph history that
>> well, was the TR2 a contemporary of the 100?
>>
>> How many times have you been asked what your Healey is worth--usually by
>> a 'not-a-car-person'--and you've replied 'Whatever someone will pay me f=
or
>> it' (then, if the person seems genuinely interested I may give a run-dow=
n
>> of the contemporary market; these days 'not so good'). It's the same wit=
h
>> other marques; witness the number of Chevelle SS 'tribute' cars going
>> across the block at auctions. Genuine Ms can command a 50-100% premium o=
ver
>> comparable 100s; hence the intensity of the interest and critique. Did y=
ou
>> watch the BaT auction? It was pretty savage and enlightening, to me; I w=
as
>> surprised Bill let the incorrect carbs and distributor slide (maybe he w=
as
>> tired of doing the registry thing).
>>
>> From the late, great Gary Anderson:
>>
>>
>> https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/The-=
Heritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf
>>
>>
>> On 12/16/2023 6:46 AM, Michael Oritt wrote:
>>
>> Some feel that since DMH knew he was going to change over to a new car
>> (the 100-6) he figured out a clever marketing ploy to get rid of what mi=
ght
>> otherwise have become a less-than-desirable inventory of late production
>> 100's by outfitting some of the cars with the snazzy M upgrade.  If so i=
t
>> was probably never his intention nor in his comprehension to produce wha=
t
>> has ironically become a very special Healey second only to the 100-S in
>> collectibility.
>>
>> Best--Michael Oritt
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 1:31=E2=80=AFAM Bob Spidell <[email-masked]=
t> wrote:
>>
>>> The M was rated at 110HP--more if you got the optional branch
>>> extractor--as opposed to a stock BN2's 90HP. That's a 22% increase in
>>> power; I'd call that significant. Also, how do you 'hang' a camshaft an=
d
>>> pistons on an engine (the mechanics were supposed to pull the engine, b=
ut
>>> if DMH and Geoff weren't around they'd cheat and do the mods in situ)?
>>>
>>> I think at least part of the value of an M is that it made an appearanc=
e
>>> at the Healey factory, possibly with DMH and/or Geoff in attendance, as
>>> opposed to just coming off the Austin assembly line. Also, the
>>> modifications were, for the most part, the same as made to the cars tha=
t
>>> ran at LeMans in '52 ('53?) and came in 13th (or 14th) overall. When
>>> customers started asking for the same modifications DMH first sold a ki=
t,
>>> then the complete car (anyone remember 'Race on Sunday, sell on Monday?=
').
>>>
>>> I'd say the market has spoken, since genuine M cars command a
>>> significant price premium (hence why of the original, documented 640 ca=
rs
>>> only 3,000 remain).
>>>
>>> bs
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/15/2023 2:16 PM, Michael Salter wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm not an "M" guy really because as someone mentioned there isn't that
>>> much to hanging the "modification " parts on any 100.
>>> If the "M" designation involved significant performance modifications,
>>> say like an "M" series BMW, which could not be easily copied, then I wo=
uld
>>> consider them be very special.
>>> I understand that Mr Meade has now sold his "M" so would not be
>>> surprised to see the "Registry" fade away.
>>> Just my opinion.
>>>
>>> M
>>>
>>> On Fri., Dec. 15, 2023, 1:59 p.m. josef-eckert--- via Healeys, <
>>> [email-masked]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What makes a 100M?
>>>> Very good question and not easy to answer.
>>>>
>>>> In my opinion, an Austin-Healey 100M, especially as the price category=
 is significantly higher than the normal 100,
>>>> is a car that any modification reduces its value. A heavily modified 1=
00M is nothing special. It's a modified 100 and
>>>> no longer an M. But this is my personal opinion. A new chassis would b=
e such a major modification for me, as would a
>>>> conversion to disc brakes at the front or a conversion to a Weber carb=
urettors, etc. This would be simply no longer a
>>>> Genuine 100M. I would then rather buy an original Austin-Healey 100 fo=
r the same money. But I have to admit, for me
>>>> the hype surrounding the 100M is far exaggerated for what the car is. =
It's a special model with a little more
>>>> horsepower, but not anything particularly special. Its like an Alpina =
BMW or a AMG Mercedes.
>>>>
>>>> Josef Eckert
>>>> Germany
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original-Nachricht-----
>>>>
>>>> Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT
>>>>
>>>> Datum: 2023-12-15T18:07:16+0100
>>>>
>>>> Von: "Bob Spidell" <[email-masked]>
>>>>
>>>> An: "HealeyRick" <[email-masked]>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Note the Registry will also certify 'Le Mans Conversions,' which may b=
e
>>>> what Kent's nasty is/was. Some have noted you can build a 'better M' w=
ith
>>>> aftermarket parts (Isky cam, alloy head, SBC, etc.).
>>>>
>>>> I don't think either Kilmartin or Jules makes a 100 chassis, but I'd b=
e
>>>> somewhat more sympathetic to that, but not so much hanging an M body a=
nd
>>>> parts on a BN1 (a BN2, *maybe*). The main problem I see is an earnest
>>>> owner may sell a conversion (aka 'counterfeit') with full disclosure, =
but
>>>> an owner or two down the road the 'Tribute' tag has been conveniently
>>>> forgotten (I'm not all in on 'tribute' anything, be they cars or rock
>>>> bands).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 12/15/2023 7:17 AM, HealeyRick wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This is all hypothesis based on speculation so take it with that
>>>> caveat.  Let's say one had a rusty factory 100M that was so bad it nee=
ded a
>>>> new frame.  How hard would it be to transfer the 100M body parts over =
to a
>>>> solid BN1 chassis along with the oh-so-valuable chassis plate? The 100=
M
>>>> Registry seems to focus mostly on the original body parts and cockpit
>>>> surrounds to certify a car. Even cars with non-original engines have b=
een
>>>> registered. I'm pretty certain Kent Lacy's Nasty M was on the registry=
. So
>>>> is the BaT car still an M?  Some pretty valuable race cars have been
>>>> crashed and fitted with new chassis and still bring big money at aucti=
on.
>>>>
>>>> To me, what makes an M an M is the motor.  If an M no longer has its
>>>> original motor, or equal replacement, it has lost its character as an =
M.
>>>> Otherwise, it's a BN2 with a louvered hood. It's almost like if a Sunb=
eam
>>>> Tiger blew its motor and it was replaced with an Alpine motor. Sure, i=
t's
>>>> got the right serial number on the unibody, but it's not much of a Tig=
er
>>>> anymore. The BaT car with what appears to be non-original carbs and
>>>> distributor caused me concern. Who would remove those from an original=
 M
>>>> motor? C'mon 100M sellers, pop the valve cover, remove the rockers and=
 put
>>>> a dial indicator on the pushrods so we can see if there is still a 100=
M cam
>>>> in the lump!
>>>>
>>>> Happy Healeydays,
>>>> Rick Neville
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 1:05=E2=80=AFPM Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.=
net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Excellent report, thank you.
>>>>>
>>>>> I was one of the commenters on BaT--I joined BaT to comment--but,
>>>>> since I have a BN2/100M I'm not familiar with BN1 differences and cou=
ld
>>>>> only point out obvious differences with my car (which was completely
>>>>> original as far as I can tell, except for extensive body work). One t=
hing
>>>>> that was somewhat disturbing to me is that the Registry certified thi=
s car,
>>>>> while noting some major anomalies (the carbs, for instance, looked to=
 be
>>>>> new and didn't have the hand scribing like my car).
>>>>>
>>>>> The other thing that interested me is, how do you value this car? Yes=
,
>>>>> it's a very nice car, probably a good driver but, IMO, its value
>>>>> *should* be less than a comparably restored, original BN1 or BN2.
>>>>> And, what did the previous owner know, or should have known about thi=
s car?
>>>>> How do you present it for sale; as a BN1 with 'M bits?' It would need=
 the
>>>>> proverbial asterisk alongside the page title.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 12/14/2023 8:15 AM, S and T Miller wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> If you were following it recently,  you might find my observations
>>>>> interesting.  So I went down to Michael's motor cars to help him dete=
rmine
>>>>> if the 100m indeed has a BN1 chassis. Here is what I found.
>>>>>
>>>>> It has the BN1 inner fenders with the rolled pressings. It has the BN=
1
>>>>> front brake hose frame mount the is less pronounced welded BN1 bracke=
t, as
>>>>> the later cars have a bolted on bracket. The front shock towers have =
no
>>>>> evidence of being replaced and show the factory welds. The gearbox mo=
unt
>>>>> shows non-original/factory welds as if it were replaced to accommodat=
e the
>>>>> BN2 mount.
>>>>>
>>>>> What I found most interesting is that where a BN1 has two OD relays
>>>>> mounted under the dash, it took shining a light it different directio=
ns to
>>>>> just make out the slight evidence of filled holes (4 of then for the =
two
>>>>> relays). And I was able to reach inside the vent just below that area=
 with
>>>>> my fingers and feel the welds and welding wire that was used to fill =
those
>>>>> 4 holes. I can tell you someone took great care to try and make those=
 holes
>>>>> seem as they never existed.  Along with that, where a BN2 would have =
the
>>>>> single OD relay attached to the firewall with machine screws screwed =
into
>>>>> welded captive nuts on the firewall,  you can see plain sheet screws =
were
>>>>> used to mount it in what would be a BN2 relay position.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also feel the engine tag is a repo because of the lighter stamping.
>>>>> Originals tend to have the numbers/ letters stamped with a deeper end
>>>>> result.  I took my repo engine tag along to compare, and they appeare=
d
>>>>> identical in the stampings. The body/ bath tag and VIN plate appear
>>>>> original. Now that doesn't mean that the engine isn't the correct M e=
ngine,
>>>>> because there could be many reasons why the engine tag was replaced. =
Anyone
>>>>> who drove a stock 100 compared to a 100M can attest to the difference=
 in
>>>>> power, and Mike stated that it indeed has that M power.
>>>>>
>>>>> The boot lid shows no evidence of the stay bracket being swapped off
>>>>> another lid, and if you look closely you can see that the boot shows =
some
>>>>> previous age/life. I'd believe it to be original. I could not make ou=
t any
>>>>> evidence of the bonnet number being sliced in from a M bonnet, but I =
will
>>>>> say that the underside of the bonnet seemed suspiciously clean and
>>>>> prestine. I couldn't detect any age like the boot, but that would be =
for
>>>>> someone else to decide.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike had asked me if the cold air box was original,  and I simply
>>>>> don't have that experience to know. I have anyways heard if it looks =
old,
>>>>> it's original.  It does indeed look to have some age, so?
>>>>>
>>>>> I feel at some point in this car's life someone went to some effort t=
o
>>>>> try and conceal that these 100M parts were reinstalled on a BN1 chass=
is.
>>>>> Another interesting note is that there was an attempt to fill the hol=
es
>>>>> where a BN1 chassis plate is fitted on the frame rail. Perhaps the pe=
rson
>>>>> didn't realize that the holes continued over to the BN2's, and though=
t they
>>>>> were erasing evidence of a BN1 chassis?
>>>>>
>>>>> With all that said, Mike is simply trying to represent the car
>>>>> correctly. The car is a very nice car! Paint is very nice, car is str=
aight,
>>>>> and gaps look good. Interior is very nice, and looks to be a very goo=
d car
>>>>> all around. I didn't drive the car, but Mike has years of experience =
under
>>>>> his belt, so I'd trust his opinions on that. With the quality of the
>>>>> restoration,  it is surprising that the front frame to shroud bracket=
s were
>>>>> not welded to the frame. Chrome looks good, and I'd think winning som=
e
>>>>> trophies at a popular vote car would not be an issue.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Millers
>>>>>
>>>>> "Always drive them, but remember each drive in an antique car is a
>>>>> test drive."
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>>> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>>>>>
>>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys
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>>>>>
>>>>> [email-masked]
>>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
>>>>>
>>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
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>>>>>
>>>>> =EF=BB=BF
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: <[email-masked]>
> To: <[email-masked]>
> Cc: <[email-masked]>
> Bcc:
> Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 05:06:32 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT
>
> Dear Josef:
>
>
>
> Your comments are the same in the USA especially in Florida where there
> are large numbers of retired people.  My good friend and President of our
> British Car Club Hermann Schuller formerly of Germany has said that young=
er
> people want Japanese or European sports cars.  It is the same for those w=
ho
> enjoy boating.  Sailors today are 55 to 80 years old.  I had to give away
> my 1967 28-foot sailboat in good condition at our summer home on Lake
> Michigan as younger boaters want speed and comfort.  I still have another
> younger 28-foot sailboat in Punta Gorda, Florida and will continue to sai=
l
> in accordance with the agreement with my wife that I will not sail alone.
>
>
>
> Also, our British Car Club of SW Florida is very large and growing thanks
> to the efforts of Hermann who revived the club.  He is a born salesman an=
d
> a lover of old sports cars.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Bob Begani
>
> 67 BJ8
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Healeys <[email-masked]> *On Behalf Of *josef-eck=
ert---
> via Healeys
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 16, 2023 1:15 PM
> *To:* Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>; Michael Oritt <
> [email-masked]>
> *Cc:* [email-masked]
> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT
>
>
>
> As far as I can see here in Europe, the market for Austin-Healeys and
> comparable vehicles from the 1950s has collapsed extremely. It's like the
> pre-war vehicles. They can no longer keep up with today's traffic and on
> motorways they are quite problematic due to the high traffic density and
> the many trucks that also recklessly swerve to overtake. A 100M and also
> a 100 are no longer in demand. The clientele that still knows
> Austin-Healey from her past is almost extinct. Hardly anyone has met
> Donald Healey here. I'm 66 years old now and didn't know him either. I
> saw Geoff once before he died, but we knew Margot quite well, having met
> through friends. But back to the 100M. Hardly anyone here knows the
> difference between a 100 with a LeMans kit and a 100M. All of these are
> then usually offered as 100 Le Mans. If a genuine 100M is actually
> offered, the price is slightly higher than for a comparable 100, but not =
by
> a factor of 2. Nobody actually pays that here. There is also non who
> would pay 100K$ for a 100 or 100M. But as I said, Austin-Healeys are slow
> sellers and the 3000 BJ8 Ph2 is most in demand because it offers just
> enough comfort. But younger people don't want these old cars at all. They
> are looking for a BMW, Porsche or something else from the 70s or 80s that
> also offers more safety and comfort and that they know from their youth.
> Lower priced british cars like MG Bs are also out. They are too expensive
> compared to a Mazda MX-5, or Jaguar XK8 which are definitely the better
> cars compared.
>
> Btw.: The Austin-Healey clubs here have gotten pretty tired. The beautifu=
l
> events like International healey Weekends that were offered 20 years ago
> are no longer offered in thre former glance for a long time. There are
> hardly any active people willing to do work for the clubs anymore. Those
> who do it are also a good 70 years old and what is then done is not reall=
y
> inviting. Many people now stay away from these events which are expensive=
,
> but not inviting.
>
>
>
> Josef Eckert
>
> Germany
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: David Masucci <[email-masked]>
> To: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
> Cc: Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>, Michael Oritt <
> [email-masked]>, Ahealey help <[email-masked]>
> Bcc:
> Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 08:10:57 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT
> All of this is inevitable, and not a  bad thing. Let=E2=80=99s just conti=
nue to
> enjoy what we can while we can. There will be other passions that will
> entice follow-on generations to enjoy memories from their youth.
>
> Dave
>
> On Dec 16, 2023, at 1:14 PM, josef-eckert--- via Healeys <
> [email-masked]> wrote:
>
> As far as I can see here in Europe, the market for Austin-Healeys and
> comparable vehicles from the 1950s has collapsed extremely. It's like the
> pre-war vehicles. They can no longer keep up with today's traffic and on
> motorways they are quite problematic due to the high traffic density and
> the many trucks that also recklessly swerve to overtake. A 100M and also
> a 100 are no longer in demand. The clientele that still knows
> Austin-Healey from her past is almost extinct. Hardly anyone has met
> Donald Healey here. I'm 66 years old now and didn't know him either. I
> saw Geoff once before he died, but we knew Margot quite well, having met
> through friends. But back to the 100M. Hardly anyone here knows the
> difference between a 100 with a LeMans kit and a 100M. All of these are
> then usually offered as 100 Le Mans. If a genuine 100M is actually
> offered, the price is slightly higher than for a comparable 100, but not =
by
> a factor of 2. Nobody actually pays that here. There is also non who
> would pay 100K$ for a 100 or 100M. But as I said, Austin-Healeys are slow
> sellers and the 3000 BJ8 Ph2 is most in demand because it offers just
> enough comfort. But younger people don't want these old cars at all. They
> are looking for a BMW, Porsche or something else from the 70s or 80s that
> also offers more safety and comfort and that they know from their youth.
> Lower priced british cars like MG Bs are also out. They are too expensive
> compared to a Mazda MX-5, or Jaguar XK8 which are definitely the better
> cars compared.
> Btw.: The Austin-Healey clubs here have gotten pretty tired. The beautifu=
l
> events like International healey Weekends that were offered 20 years ago
> are no longer offered in thre former glance for a long time. There are
> hardly any active people willing to do work for the clubs anymore. Those
> who do it are also a good 70 years old and what is then done is not reall=
y
> inviting. Many people now stay away from these events which are expensive=
,
> but not inviting.
>
>
> Josef Eckert
> Germany
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original-Nachricht-----
> Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT
> Datum: 2023-12-16T17:41:57+0100
> Von: "Bob Spidell" <[email-masked]>
> An: "Michael Oritt" <[email-masked]>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I think that's indisputable (I unintentionally neglected to mention that
> aspect). That, and the fact the kits were selling made a case for selling
> the M (these days, that would take an army of marketing people to figure
> out, with lots of 'data' of course, and maybe some AI). Doesn't negate th=
e
> strong showing of taking, IIRC, 3 cars off the lot--or was that the
> Bonneville cars?--hanging a few fancy bits on it and giving the bespoke
> Ferraris, Jags, Astons, Mercedeses etc. a run for their money (the Healey=
s'
> rugged simplicity likely helped). DMH was a brilliant marketer and
> salesman; he spotted the 'niche' hole between lower--performance MGs--we'=
re
> talking TCs and TDs, not Bs and Cs--and higher-performance but much more
> expensive Jaguars and plugged it. History says he drove cross-county in t=
he
> US to gauge the market; probably why he made overdrive an option from the
> get-go, for the wide-open US highways. I don't know Triumph history that
> well, was the TR2 a contemporary of the 100?
>
> How many times have you been asked what your Healey is worth--usually by =
a
> 'not-a-car-person'--and you've replied 'Whatever someone will pay me for
> it' (then, if the person seems genuinely interested I may give a run-down
> of the contemporary market; these days 'not so good'). It's the same with
> other marques; witness the number of Chevelle SS 'tribute' cars going
> across the block at auctions. Genuine Ms can command a 50-100% premium ov=
er
> comparable 100s; hence the intensity of the interest and critique. Did yo=
u
> watch the BaT auction? It was pretty savage and enlightening, to me; I wa=
s
> surprised Bill let the incorrect carbs and distributor slide (maybe he wa=
s
> tired of doing the registry thing).
>
> From the late, great Gary Anderson:
>
>
> https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/The-H=
eritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf
>
>
> On 12/16/2023 6:46 AM, Michael Oritt wrote:
>
> Some feel that since DMH knew he was going to change over to a new car
> (the 100-6) he figured out a clever marketing ploy to get rid of what mig=
ht
> otherwise have become a less-than-desirable inventory of late production
> 100's by outfitting some of the cars with the snazzy M upgrade.  If so it
> was probably never his intention nor in his comprehension to produce what
> has ironically become a very special Healey second only to the 100-S in
> collectibility.
>
> Best--Michael Oritt
>
> On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 1:31=E2=80=AFAM Bob Spidell <[email-masked]=
> wrote:
>
>> The M was rated at 110HP--more if you got the optional branch
>> extractor--as opposed to a stock BN2's 90HP. That's a 22% increase in
>> power; I'd call that significant. Also, how do you 'hang' a camshaft and
>> pistons on an engine (the mechanics were supposed to pull the engine, bu=
t
>> if DMH and Geoff weren't around they'd cheat and do the mods in situ)?
>>
>> I think at least part of the value of an M is that it made an appearance
>> at the Healey factory, possibly with DMH and/or Geoff in attendance, as
>> opposed to just coming off the Austin assembly line. Also, the
>> modifications were, for the most part, the same as made to the cars that
>> ran at LeMans in '52 ('53?) and came in 13th (or 14th) overall. When
>> customers started asking for the same modifications DMH first sold a kit=
,
>> then the complete car (anyone remember 'Race on Sunday, sell on Monday?'=
).
>>
>> I'd say the market has spoken, since genuine M cars command a significan=
t
>> price premium (hence why of the original, documented 640 cars only 3,000
>> remain).
>>
>> bs
>>
>>
>> On 12/15/2023 2:16 PM, Michael Salter wrote:
>>
>> I'm not an "M" guy really because as someone mentioned there isn't that
>> much to hanging the "modification " parts on any 100.
>> If the "M" designation involved significant performance modifications,
>> say like an "M" series BMW, which could not be easily copied, then I wou=
ld
>> consider them be very special.
>> I understand that Mr Meade has now sold his "M" so would not be surprise=
d
>> to see the "Registry" fade away.
>> Just my opinion.
>>
>> M
>>
>> On Fri., Dec. 15, 2023, 1:59 p.m. josef-eckert--- via Healeys, <
>> [email-masked]> wrote:
>>
>>> What makes a 100M? Very good question and not easy to answer. In my opi=
nion, an Austin-Healey 100M, especially as the price category is significan=
tly higher than the normal 100, is a car that any modification reduces its =
value. A heavily modified 100M is nothing special. It's a modified 100 and =
no longer an M. But this is my personal opinion. A new chassis would be suc=
h a major modification for me, as would a conversion to disc brakes at the =
front or a conversion to a Weber carburettors, etc. This would be simply no=
 longer a Genuine 100M. I would then rather buy an original Austin-Healey 1=
00 for the same money. But I have to admit, for me the hype surrounding the=
 100M is far exaggerated for what the car is. It's a special model with a l=
ittle more horsepower, but not anything particularly special. Its like an A=
lpina BMW or a AMG Mercedes. Josef Eckert Germany
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original-Nachricht-----
>>> Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT
>>> Datum: 2023-12-15T18:07:16+0100
>>> Von: "Bob Spidell" <[email-masked]>
>>> An: "HealeyRick" <[email-masked]>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Note the Registry will also certify 'Le Mans Conversions,' which may be
>>> what Kent's nasty is/was. Some have noted you can build a 'better M' wi=
th
>>> aftermarket parts (Isky cam, alloy head, SBC, etc.).
>>>
>>> I don't think either Kilmartin or Jules makes a 100 chassis, but I'd be
>>> somewhat more sympathetic to that, but not so much hanging an M body an=
d
>>> parts on a BN1 (a BN2, *maybe*). The main problem I see is an earnest
>>> owner may sell a conversion (aka 'counterfeit') with full disclosure, b=
ut
>>> an owner or two down the road the 'Tribute' tag has been conveniently
>>> forgotten (I'm not all in on 'tribute' anything, be they cars or rock
>>> bands).
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/15/2023 7:17 AM, HealeyRick wrote:
>>>
>>> This is all hypothesis based on speculation so take it with that
>>> caveat.  Let's say one had a rusty factory 100M that was so bad it need=
ed a
>>> new frame.  How hard would it be to transfer the 100M body parts over t=
o a
>>> solid BN1 chassis along with the oh-so-valuable chassis plate? The 100M
>>> Registry seems to focus mostly on the original body parts and cockpit
>>> surrounds to certify a car. Even cars with non-original engines have be=
en
>>> registered. I'm pretty certain Kent Lacy's Nasty M was on the registry.=
 So
>>> is the BaT car still an M?  Some pretty valuable race cars have been
>>> crashed and fitted with new chassis and still bring big money at auctio=
n.
>>>
>>> To me, what makes an M an M is the motor.  If an M no longer has its
>>> original motor, or equal replacement, it has lost its character as an M=
.
>>> Otherwise, it's a BN2 with a louvered hood. It's almost like if a Sunbe=
am
>>> Tiger blew its motor and it was replaced with an Alpine motor. Sure, it=
's
>>> got the right serial number on the unibody, but it's not much of a Tige=
r
>>> anymore. The BaT car with what appears to be non-original carbs and
>>> distributor caused me concern. Who would remove those from an original =
M
>>> motor? C'mon 100M sellers, pop the valve cover, remove the rockers and =
put
>>> a dial indicator on the pushrods so we can see if there is still a 100M=
 cam
>>> in the lump!
>>>
>>> Happy Healeydays,
>>> Rick Neville
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 1:05=E2=80=AFPM Bob Spidell <[email-masked]=
et>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Excellent report, thank you.
>>>>
>>>> I was one of the commenters on BaT--I joined BaT to comment--but, sinc=
e
>>>> I have a BN2/100M I'm not familiar with BN1 differences and could only
>>>> point out obvious differences with my car (which was completely origin=
al as
>>>> far as I can tell, except for extensive body work). One thing that was
>>>> somewhat disturbing to me is that the Registry certified this car, whi=
le
>>>> noting some major anomalies (the carbs, for instance, looked to be new=
 and
>>>> didn't have the hand scribing like my car).
>>>>
>>>> The other thing that interested me is, how do you value this car? Yes,
>>>> it's a very nice car, probably a good driver but, IMO, its value
>>>> *should* be less than a comparably restored, original BN1 or BN2. And,
>>>> what did the previous owner know, or should have known about this car?=
 How
>>>> do you present it for sale; as a BN1 with 'M bits?' It would need the
>>>> proverbial asterisk alongside the page title.
>>>>
>>>> Bob
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 12/14/2023 8:15 AM, S and T Miller wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If you were following it recently,  you might find my observations
>>>> interesting.  So I went down to Michael's motor cars to help him deter=
mine
>>>> if the 100m indeed has a BN1 chassis. Here is what I found.
>>>>
>>>> It has the BN1 inner fenders with the rolled pressings. It has the BN1
>>>> front brake hose frame mount the is less pronounced welded BN1 bracket=
, as
>>>> the later cars have a bolted on bracket. The front shock towers have n=
o
>>>> evidence of being replaced and show the factory welds. The gearbox mou=
nt
>>>> shows non-original/factory welds as if it were replaced to accommodate=
 the
>>>> BN2 mount.
>>>>
>>>> What I found most interesting is that where a BN1 has two OD relays
>>>> mounted under the dash, it took shining a light it different direction=
s to
>>>> just make out the slight evidence of filled holes (4 of then for the t=
wo
>>>> relays). And I was able to reach inside the vent just below that area =
with
>>>> my fingers and feel the welds and welding wire that was used to fill t=
hose
>>>> 4 holes. I can tell you someone took great care to try and make those =
holes
>>>> seem as they never existed.  Along with that, where a BN2 would have t=
he
>>>> single OD relay attached to the firewall with machine screws screwed i=
nto
>>>> welded captive nuts on the firewall,  you can see plain sheet screws w=
ere
>>>> used to mount it in what would be a BN2 relay position.
>>>>
>>>> I also feel the engine tag is a repo because of the lighter stamping.
>>>> Originals tend to have the numbers/ letters stamped with a deeper end
>>>> result.  I took my repo engine tag along to compare, and they appeared
>>>> identical in the stampings. The body/ bath tag and VIN plate appear
>>>> original. Now that doesn't mean that the engine isn't the correct M en=
gine,
>>>> because there could be many reasons why the engine tag was replaced. A=
nyone
>>>> who drove a stock 100 compared to a 100M can attest to the difference =
in
>>>> power, and Mike stated that it indeed has that M power.
>>>>
>>>> The boot lid shows no evidence of the stay bracket being swapped off
>>>> another lid, and if you look closely you can see that the boot shows s=
ome
>>>> previous age/life. I'd believe it to be original. I could not make out=
 any
>>>> evidence of the bonnet number being sliced in from a M bonnet, but I w=
ill
>>>> say that the underside of the bonnet seemed suspiciously clean and
>>>> prestine. I couldn't detect any age like the boot, but that would be f=
or
>>>> someone else to decide.
>>>>
>>>> Mike had asked me if the cold air box was original,  and I simply don'=
t
>>>> have that experience to know. I have anyways heard if it looks old, it=
's
>>>> original.  It does indeed look to have some age, so?
>>>>
>>>> I feel at some point in this car's life someone went to some effort to
>>>> try and conceal that these 100M parts were reinstalled on a BN1 chassi=
s.
>>>> Another interesting note is that there was an attempt to fill the hole=
s
>>>> where a BN1 chassis plate is fitted on the frame rail. Perhaps the per=
son
>>>> didn't realize that the holes continued over to the BN2's, and thought=
 they
>>>> were erasing evidence of a BN1 chassis?
>>>>
>>>> With all that said, Mike is simply trying to represent the car
>>>> correctly. The car is a very nice car! Paint is very nice, car is stra=
ight,
>>>> and gaps look good. Interior is very nice, and looks to be a very good=
 car
>>>> all around. I didn't drive the car, but Mike has years of experience u=
nder
>>>> his belt, so I'd trust his opinions on that. With the quality of the
>>>> restoration,  it is surprising that the front frame to shroud brackets=
 were
>>>> not welded to the frame. Chrome looks good, and I'd think winning some
>>>> trophies at a popular vote car would not be an issue.
>>>>
>>>> The Millers
>>>>
>>>> "Always drive them, but remember each drive in an antique car is a tes=
t
>>>> drive."
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>>>>
>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>> _______________________________________________
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>

--00000000000037ed2e060cba36b9
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:large">Re:=
 Recent 100 M on BaT</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:l=
arge"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:large">Rick=
 and Bob:=C2=A0 I did it.=C2=A0 I was the one who posted on BaT Nov.16 that=
 there is a problem with the front shock towers and maybe half a dozen othe=
r issues that went unanswered.=C2=A0 Being incredulous at the number of iss=
ues on the bottom of the car, considering how glowingly it was being presen=
ted, I showed the pictures to my fellow Healey 100 obsessed neighbor who sa=
id &quot;Aren&#39;t those BN1 shock towers?&quot;=C2=A0 I had also recently=
 watched the walk around video and simply couldn&#39;t contain myself.=C2=
=A0 Maybe it would have been better to just reach out to the seller, but I =
didn&#39;t think of that until just now.=C2=A0 Contrary to being savage, I =
think my remarks showed restraint.=C2=A0 There is a lot more there, and I d=
idn&#39;t mention any of the top side problems.=C2=A0 (Bob, I laughed=C2=A0=
when I read your &quot;ashtray delete&quot; remark)=C2=A0 I think the open =
discussion of shortcomings of cars listed on BaT benefits both the buyer an=
d the seller.=C2=A0 Imagine the embarrassment=C2=A0of a neophyte Healey 100=
 enthusiast having=C2=A0 paid top dollar for this car entering it in a conc=
ours (&quot;would be welcome and do well in any concours&quot;) and having =
it judged to AH Club USA concours standards, or more likely declined to be =
judged.=C2=A0 Think he might seek legal remedy?=C2=A0 I wouldn&#39;t want t=
o be the guy who sold it to him.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D=
"font-size:large"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size=
:large">=C2=A0=C2=A0</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"=
ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Dec 17, 2023 at 11:01=E2=80=AFAM &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
t</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"=
><div class=3D"msg3035444886437018827">Send Healeys mailing list submission=
s to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" targe=
t=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listin=
fo/healeys" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mail=
man/listinfo/healeys</a><br>
or, via email, send a message with subject or body &#39;help&#39; to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
t" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
 target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than &quot;Re: Contents of Healeys digest...&quot;<br>
Today&#39;s Topics:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A01. Re: Recent 100M on BAT (Mark Bradakis)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A02. Re: Recent 100M on BAT (Bob Spidell)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A03. Re: Recent 100M on BAT (<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
m" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A04. Re: Recent 100M on BAT (David Masucci)<br>
<br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From:=C2=A0Mark Brad=
akis &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">mark@bradak=
is.com</a>&gt;<br>To:=C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=
=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br>Cc:=C2=A0<br>Bcc:=C2=A0<br>Date:=
=C2=A0Sat, 16 Dec 2023 13:56:44 -0700<br>Subject:=C2=A0Re: [Healeys] Recent=
 100M on BAT<br>On 12/16/23 9:55 AM, Curtis Arndt via Healeys wrote:<br>
&gt; Regarding the 100M Registry, Lynn Martin and I volunteered to take ove=
r <br>
&gt; the registry, but after several hours of discussion, the cost of doing=
 <br>
&gt; so came up and we decided that the price of admission was way too high=
 <br>
&gt; for something with little to no financial gain and a lot of work invol=
ved.<br>
<br>
Try running Team Net for 30+ years!<br>
<br>
mjb.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From:=C2=A0Bob Spide=
ll &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">bspidell@c=
omcast.net</a>&gt;<br>To:=C2=A0HealeyRick &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:healeyrik@g=
mail.com" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>Cc:=C2=A0Michael=
 Oritt &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">mic=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
t" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<b=
r>Bcc:=C2=A0<br>Date:=C2=A0Sat, 16 Dec 2023 16:43:03 -0800<br>Subject:=C2=
=A0Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT<br><u></u>

 =20
   =20
 =20
  <div>
    Rick,<br>
    <br>
    Last I heard, the owner was working with BaT to present another
    listing for this car (or did it sell?). If it&#39;s presented
    truthfully, as having a replacement chassis and possibly carbs and
    distributor I&#39;d have no issues with it; it is, essentially, an &#39=
;M
    equivalent&#39; with a (likely) reduced price. The commenters did a
    potential buyer a favor; if s/he knows what s/he got, and is happy
    with it, that&#39;s great.<br>
    <br>
    Bob<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div>On 12/16/2023 9:31 AM, HealeyRick
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
     =20
      <div dir=3D"ltr">Bob,
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0As I prepare to write this month&#39;s &qu=
ot;Auction Report&quot;
          for the <i>Healey Marque </i>this 100M discussion has been
          really helpful and interesting. I think your comment=C2=A0 &quot;=
 I was
          surprised Bill let the incorrect carbs and distributor slide
          &quot;=C2=A0 raises a great question of what exactly is the 100M
          certificate certifying? Bill Meade has written an article on
          what needs to be presented to be certified.=C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=
=3D"https://www.100mregistry.com/PROTECTING_YOUR_100M_Feb_2013.pdf" target=
=3D"_blank">https://www.100mregistry.com/PROTECTING_YOUR_100M_Feb_2013.pdf=
=C2=A0</a>=C2=A0
          =C2=A0But it seems to me it mainly focuses on the body parts that
          it left the factory with. I find it interesting there&#39;s no
          necessity for pictures of the engine number.=C2=A0 And even if al=
l
          the body parts, carbs, and distributor aren&#39;t there, Bill say=
s
          in the article=C2=A0 &quot;If some of these items are missing, le=
t the
          Registry
          know. It normally does not prevent registration provided
          enough ID points are present.&quot;=C2=A0 So my impression, which=
 I&#39;ll
          try to verify with Bill, is the certification is focused on
          the question whether this is the car that left the factory
          that matches the BMIHT certificate saying it had a louvered
          hood and not so much on whether it still has all the original
          parts an M would have come with.</div>
        <div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I think one of the benefits of the BaT co=
mments for
          buyers (and probably not so much for sellers) is pointing out
          major deficiencies with an offering. Some buyer might have
          paid way more this car than it would be worth if not for the
          &quot;savage&quot; comments.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Happy Healeydays</div>
        <div>Rick Neville</div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class=3D"gmail_quote">
        <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at
          11:46=E2=80=AFAM Bob Spidell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comca=
st.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
          wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
          <div> I think that&#39;s indisputable (I unintentionally neglecte=
d
            to mention that aspect). That, and the fact the kits were
            selling made a case for selling the M (these days, that
            would take an army of marketing people to figure out, with
            lots of &#39;data&#39; of course, and maybe some AI). Doesn&#39=
;t negate
            the strong showing of taking, IIRC, 3 cars off the lot--or
            was that the Bonneville cars?--hanging a few fancy bits on
            it and giving the bespoke Ferraris, Jags, Astons, Mercedeses
            etc. a run for their money (the Healeys&#39; rugged simplicity
            likely helped). DMH was a brilliant marketer and salesman;
            he spotted the &#39;niche&#39; hole between lower--performance
            MGs--we&#39;re talking TCs and TDs, not Bs and Cs--and
            higher-performance but much more expensive Jaguars and
            plugged it. History says he drove cross-county in the US to
            gauge the market; probably why he made overdrive an option
            from the get-go, for the wide-open US highways. I don&#39;t kno=
w
            Triumph history that well, was the TR2 a contemporary of the
            100?<br>
            <br>
            How many times have you been asked what your Healey is
            worth--usually by a &#39;not-a-car-person&#39;--and you&#39;ve =
replied
            &#39;Whatever someone will pay me for it&#39; (then, if the per=
son
            seems genuinely interested I may give a run-down of the
            contemporary market; these days &#39;not so good&#39;). It&#39;=
s the
            same with other marques; witness the number of Chevelle SS
            &#39;tribute&#39; cars going across the block at auctions. Genu=
ine
            Ms can command a 50-100% premium over comparable 100s; hence
            the intensity of the interest and critique. Did you watch
            the BaT auction? It was pretty savage and enlightening, to
            me; I was surprised Bill let the incorrect carbs and
            distributor slide (maybe he was tired of doing the registry
            thing). <br>
            <br>
            From the late, great Gary Anderson:<br>
            <br>
            <a href=3D"https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/=
uploads/2019/03/The-Heritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf" target=3D"_blank"=
>https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/The-He=
ritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf</a><br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <div>On 12/16/2023 6:46 AM, Michael Oritt wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote type=3D"cite">
              <div dir=3D"ltr">
                <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)"=
>Some
                  feel that since DMH knew he was going to change over
                  to a new car (the 100-6) he figured out a clever
                  marketing=C2=A0ploy to get rid of what might otherwise ha=
ve
                  become a less-than-desirable=C2=A0inventory of late
                  production 100&#39;s by outfitting some of the cars with
                  the snazzy M upgrade.=C2=A0 If so it was probably never h=
is
                  intention nor in his comprehension to produce=C2=A0what h=
as
                  ironically become a very special Healey second only to
                  the 100-S in collectibility.</div>
                <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)"=
><br>
                </div>
                <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)"=
>Best--Michael
                  Oritt</div>
              </div>
              <br>
              <div class=3D"gmail_quote">
                <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Dec 16, 2023
                  at 1:31=E2=80=AFAM Bob Spidell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bspi=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                  wrote:<br>
                </div>
                <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0=
px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                  <div> The M was rated at 110HP--more if you got the
                    optional branch extractor--as opposed to a stock
                    BN2&#39;s 90HP. That&#39;s a 22% increase in power; I&#=
39;d call
                    that significant. Also, how do you &#39;hang&#39; a cam=
shaft
                    and pistons on an engine (the mechanics were
                    supposed to pull the engine, but if DMH and Geoff
                    weren&#39;t around they&#39;d cheat and do the mods in
                    situ)?<br>
                    <br>
                    I think at least part of the value of an M is that
                    it made an appearance at the Healey factory,
                    possibly with DMH and/or Geoff in attendance, as
                    opposed to just coming off the Austin assembly line.
                    Also, the modifications were, for the most part, the
                    same as made to the cars that ran at LeMans in &#39;52
                    (&#39;53?) and came in 13th (or 14th) overall. When
                    customers started asking for the same modifications
                    DMH first sold a kit, then the complete car (anyone
                    remember &#39;Race on Sunday, sell on Monday?&#39;).<br=
                    <br>
                    I&#39;d say the market has spoken, since genuine M cars
                    command a significant price premium (hence why of
                    the original, documented 640 cars only 3,000
                    remain). <br>
                    <br>
                    bs<br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <div>On 12/15/2023 2:16 PM, Michael Salter wrote:<br>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
                      <div dir=3D"auto">I&#39;m not an &quot;M&quot; guy re=
ally because
                        as someone mentioned there isn&#39;t that much to
                        hanging the &quot;modification &quot; parts on any =
100.=C2=A0
                        <div dir=3D"auto">If the &quot;M&quot; designation =
involved
                          significant performance modifications,=C2=A0 say
                          like an &quot;M&quot; series BMW, which could not=
 be
                          easily copied, then I would consider them be
                          very special.
                          <div dir=3D"auto">I understand that Mr Meade has
                            now sold his &quot;M&quot; so would not be surp=
rised
                            to see the &quot;Registry&quot; fade away.</div=
                          <div dir=3D"auto">Just my opinion.=C2=A0</div>
                          <div dir=3D"auto"><br>
                          </div>
                          <div dir=3D"auto">M</div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <br>
                      <div class=3D"gmail_quote">
                        <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri., Dec.
                          15, 2023, 1:59 p.m. josef-eckert--- via
                          Healeys, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                          wrote:<br>
                        </div>
                        <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0=
px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                          <div>
                            <pre id=3D"m_3035444886437018827m_1603492253125=
454553m_-4413793566936237617m_-8948067483587624533tw-target-text" dir=3D"lt=
r" style=3D"text-align:left"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:aria=
l,helvetica,sans-serif" lang=3D"en">What makes a 100M?=20
Very good question and not easy to answer.

In my opinion, an Austin-Healey 100M, especially as the price category is s=
ignificantly higher than the normal 100,=20
is a car that any modification reduces its value. A heavily modified 100M i=
s nothing special. It&#39;s a modified 100 and=20
no longer an M. But this is my personal opinion. A new chassis would be suc=
h a major modification for me, as would a=20
conversion to disc brakes at the front or a conversion to a Weber carburett=
ors, etc. This would be simply no longer a=20
Genuine 100M. I would then rather buy an original Austin-Healey 100 for the=
 same money. But I have to admit, for me=20
the hype surrounding the 100M is far exaggerated for what the car is. It&#3=
9;s a special model with a little more=20
horsepower, but not anything particularly special. Its like an Alpina BMW o=
r a AMG Mercedes.

Josef Eckert
Germany
</span></pre>
                            <p style=3D"margin:0px"><span style=3D"font-fam=
ily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-decorat=
ion:none">=C2=A0</span></p>
                            <p style=3D"margin:0px"><span style=3D"font-fam=
ily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-decorat=
ion:none">=C2=A0</span></p>
                            <p style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p>
                            <p style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p>
                            <p style=3D"margin:0px">-----Original-Nachricht=
-----</p>
                            <p style=3D"margin:0px">Betreff: Re: [Healeys]
                              Recent 100M on BAT</p>
                            <p style=3D"margin:0px">Datum:
                              2023-12-15T18:07:16+0100</p>
                            <p style=3D"margin:0px">Von: &quot;Bob Spidell&=
quot;
                              &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" r=
el=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</p>
                            <p style=3D"margin:0px">An: &quot;HealeyRick&qu=
ot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D=
"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</p>
                            <p style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p>
                            <p style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p>
                            <p style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p>
                            <div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font:12px Arial,=
Helvetica,sans-serif">Note the
                              Registry will also certify &#39;Le Mans
                              Conversions,&#39; which may be what Kent&#39;=
s
                              nasty is/was. Some have noted you can
                              build a &#39;better M&#39; with aftermarket p=
arts
                              (Isky cam, alloy head, SBC, etc.). <br>
                              <br>
                              I don&#39;t think either Kilmartin or Jules
                              makes a 100 chassis, but I&#39;d be somewhat
                              more sympathetic to that, but not so much
                              hanging an M body and parts on a BN1 (a
                              BN2, <em>maybe</em>). The main problem I
                              see is an earnest owner may sell a
                              conversion (aka &#39;counterfeit&#39;) with f=
ull
                              disclosure, but an owner or two down the
                              road the &#39;Tribute&#39; tag has been
                              conveniently forgotten (I&#39;m not all in on
                              &#39;tribute&#39; anything, be they cars or r=
ock
                              bands).<br>
                              <br>
                              <br>
                              <div>On 12/15/2023 7:17 AM, HealeyRick
                                wrote:</div>
                              <blockquote>
                                <div dir=3D"ltr">This is all hypothesis
                                  based on speculation so take it with
                                  that caveat.=C2=A0 Let&#39;s say one had =
a
                                  rusty factory 100M that was so bad it
                                  needed a new frame.=C2=A0 How hard would =
it
                                  be to transfer the 100M body parts
                                  over to a solid BN1 chassis along with
                                  the oh-so-valuable chassis plate? The
                                  100M Registry seems to focus mostly on
                                  the original body parts and cockpit
                                  surrounds to certify a car. Even cars
                                  with non-original engines have been
                                  registered. I&#39;m pretty certain Kent
                                  Lacy&#39;s Nasty M was on the registry. S=
o
                                  is the BaT car still an M?=C2=A0 Some
                                  pretty valuable race cars have been
                                  crashed and fitted with=C2=A0new chassis
                                  and still bring big money at auction.=C2=
=A0
                                  <div>=C2=A0</div>
                                  <div>To me, what makes an M an M is
                                    the motor.=C2=A0 If an M no longer has
                                    its original motor, or equal
                                    replacement, it has lost its
                                    character as an M. Otherwise, it&#39;s =
a
                                    BN2 with a louvered hood. It&#39;s
                                    almost like if a Sunbeam Tiger blew
                                    its motor and it was replaced with
                                    an Alpine motor. Sure, it&#39;s got the
                                    right serial number on the unibody,
                                    but it&#39;s not much of a Tiger
                                    anymore. The BaT car with what
                                    appears to be non-original carbs and
                                    distributor caused me concern. Who
                                    would remove those from an original
                                    M motor? C&#39;mon 100M sellers, pop th=
e
                                    valve cover, remove the rockers and
                                    put a dial indicator on the pushrods
                                    so we can see if there is still a
                                    100M cam in the lump!</div>
                                  <div>
                                    <div>=C2=A0</div>
                                    <div>Happy Healeydays,</div>
                                    <div>Rick Neville</div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                                <br>
                                <div class=3D"gmail_quote">
                                  <div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On
                                    Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 1:05=E2=80=AFPM Bo=
b
                                    Spidell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@=
comcast.net" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&=
gt;
                                    wrote:</div>
                                  <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding=
-left:1ex">
                                    <div>Excellent report, thank you. <br>
                                      <br>
                                      I was one of the commenters on
                                      BaT--I joined BaT to comment--but,
                                      since I have a BN2/100M I&#39;m not
                                      familiar with BN1 differences and
                                      could only point out obvious
                                      differences with my car (which was
                                      completely original as far as I
                                      can tell, except for extensive
                                      body work). One thing that was
                                      somewhat disturbing to me is that
                                      the Registry certified this car,
                                      while noting some major anomalies
                                      (the carbs, for instance, looked
                                      to be new and didn&#39;t have the han=
d
                                      scribing like my car). <br>
                                      <br>
                                      The other thing that interested me
                                      is, how do you value this car?
                                      Yes, it&#39;s a very nice car,
                                      probably a good driver but, IMO,
                                      its value <em>should</em> be less
                                      than a comparably restored,
                                      original BN1 or BN2. And, what did
                                      the previous owner know, or should
                                      have known about this car? How do
                                      you present it for sale; as a BN1
                                      with &#39;M bits?&#39; It would need =
the
                                      proverbial asterisk alongside the
                                      page title.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      Bob<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <div>On 12/14/2023 8:15 AM, S and
                                        T Miller wrote:</div>
                                      <blockquote>
                                        <div style=3D"font-family:inherit;f=
ont-size:inherit;color:inherit;background-color:transparent">
                                          <div>If you were following it
                                            recently,=C2=A0 you might find =
my
                                            observations interesting.=C2=A0
                                            So I went down to Michael&#39;s
                                            motor cars to help him
                                            determine if the 100m indeed
                                            has a BN1 chassis. Here is
                                            what I found.</div>
                                          <div>=C2=A0</div>
                                          <div>It has the BN1 inner
                                            fenders with the rolled
                                            pressings. It has the BN1
                                            front brake hose frame mount
                                            the is less pronounced
                                            welded BN1 bracket, as the
                                            later cars have a bolted on
                                            bracket. The front shock
                                            towers have no evidence of
                                            being replaced and show the
                                            factory welds. The gearbox
                                            mount shows
                                            non-original/factory welds
                                            as if it were replaced to
                                            accommodate the BN2 mount.=C2=
=A0</div>
                                          <div>=C2=A0</div>
                                          <div>What I found most
                                            interesting is that where a
                                            BN1 has two OD relays
                                            mounted under the dash, it
                                            took shining a light it
                                            different directions to just
                                            make out the slight evidence
                                            of filled holes (4 of then
                                            for the two relays). And I
                                            was able to reach inside the
                                            vent just below that area
                                            with my fingers and feel the
                                            welds and welding wire that
                                            was used to fill those 4
                                            holes. I can tell you
                                            someone took great care to
                                            try and make those holes
                                            seem as they never existed.=C2=
=A0
                                            Along with that, where a BN2
                                            would have the single OD
                                            relay attached to the
                                            firewall with machine screws
                                            screwed into welded captive
                                            nuts on the firewall,=C2=A0 you
                                            can see plain sheet screws
                                            were used to mount it in
                                            what would be a BN2 relay
                                            position.=C2=A0</div>
                                          <div>=C2=A0</div>
                                          <div>I also feel the engine
                                            tag is a repo because of the
                                            lighter stamping. Originals
                                            tend to have the numbers/
                                            letters stamped with a
                                            deeper end result.=C2=A0 I took
                                            my repo engine tag along to
                                            compare, and they appeared
                                            identical in the stampings.
                                            The body/ bath tag and VIN
                                            plate appear original. Now
                                            that doesn&#39;t mean that the
                                            engine isn&#39;t the correct M
                                            engine, because there could
                                            be many reasons why the
                                            engine tag was replaced.
                                            Anyone who drove a stock 100
                                            compared to a 100M can
                                            attest to the difference in
                                            power, and Mike stated that
                                            it indeed has that M power.=C2=
=A0</div>
                                          <div>=C2=A0</div>
                                          <div>The boot lid shows no
                                            evidence of the stay bracket
                                            being swapped off another
                                            lid, and if you look closely
                                            you can see that the boot
                                            shows some previous
                                            age/life. I&#39;d believe it to
                                            be original. I could not
                                            make out any evidence of the
                                            bonnet number being sliced
                                            in from a M bonnet, but I
                                            will say that the underside
                                            of the bonnet seemed
                                            suspiciously clean and
                                            prestine. I couldn&#39;t detect
                                            any age like the boot, but
                                            that would be for someone
                                            else to decide.=C2=A0</div>
                                          <div>=C2=A0</div>
                                          <div>Mike had asked me if the
                                            cold air box was original,=C2=
=A0
                                            and I simply don&#39;t have tha=
t
                                            experience to know. I have
                                            anyways heard if it looks
                                            old, it&#39;s original.=C2=A0 I=
t does
                                            indeed look to have some
                                            age, so?</div>
                                          <div>=C2=A0</div>
                                          <div>I feel at some point in
                                            this car&#39;s life someone wen=
t
                                            to some effort to try and
                                            conceal that these 100M
                                            parts were reinstalled on a
                                            BN1 chassis. Another
                                            interesting note is that
                                            there was an attempt to fill
                                            the holes where a BN1
                                            chassis plate is fitted on
                                            the frame rail. Perhaps the
                                            person didn&#39;t realize that
                                            the holes continued over to
                                            the BN2&#39;s, and thought they
                                            were erasing evidence of a
                                            BN1 chassis?=C2=A0</div>
                                          <div>=C2=A0</div>
                                          <div>With all that said, Mike
                                            is simply trying to
                                            represent the car correctly.
                                            The car is a very nice car!
                                            Paint is very nice, car is
                                            straight, and gaps look
                                            good. Interior is very nice,
                                            and looks to be a very good
                                            car all around. I didn&#39;t
                                            drive the car, but Mike has
                                            years of experience under
                                            his belt, so I&#39;d trust his
                                            opinions on that. With the
                                            quality of the restoration,=C2=
=A0
                                            it is surprising that the
                                            front frame to shroud
                                            brackets were not welded to
                                            the frame. Chrome looks
                                            good, and I&#39;d think winning
                                            some trophies at a popular
                                            vote car would not be an
                                            issue.=C2=A0</div>
                                        </div>
                                        <div>=C2=A0</div>
                                        <div>The Millers<br>
                                          =C2=A0<br>
                                          &quot;Always drive them, but
                                          remember each drive in an
                                          antique car is a test drive.&quot=
;</div>
                                      </blockquote>
                                    </div>
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<br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From:=C2=A0&lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&g=
t;<br>To:=C2=A0&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_b=
lank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>Cc:=C2=A0&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:he=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>B=
cc:=C2=A0<br>Date:=C2=A0Sun, 17 Dec 2023 05:06:32 -0500<br>Subject:=C2=A0Re=
: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT<br><div lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"overflow-wra=
p: break-word;"><div class=3D"m_3035444886437018827WordSection1"><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">=
Dear Josef:<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:16pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-family:Arial,sans=
-serif">Your comments are the same in the USA especially in Florida where t=
here are large numbers of retired people.=C2=A0 My good friend and Presiden=
t of our British Car Club Hermann Schuller formerly of Germany has said tha=
t younger people want Japanese or European sports cars.=C2=A0 It is the sam=
e for those who enjoy boating.=C2=A0 Sailors today are 55 to 80 years old.=
=C2=A0 I had to give away my 1967 28-foot sailboat in good condition at our=
 summer home on Lake Michigan as younger boaters want speed and comfort.=C2=
=A0 I still have another younger 28-foot sailboat in Punta Gorda, Florida a=
nd will continue to sail in accordance with the agreement with my wife that=
 I will not sail alone.=C2=A0 <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l"><span style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16pt;f=
ont-family:Arial,sans-serif">Also, our British Car Club of SW Florida is ve=
ry large and growing thanks to the efforts of Hermann who revived the club.=
=C2=A0 He is a born salesman and a lover of old sports cars.<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-family:=
Arial,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Regards,<u></u><u>=
</u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-fa=
mily:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
"><span style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Bob Begani<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16pt;=
font-family:Arial,sans-serif">67 BJ8<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u=
>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16=
pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u>=
</u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><div><div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bot=
tom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt=
 0in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Healeys &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
am.net</a>&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>josef-eckert--- via Healeys<br><b>Sent:<=
/b> Saturday, December 16, 2023 1:15 PM<br><b>To:</b> Bob Spidell &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</=
a>&gt;; Michael Oritt &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=
=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto=
:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br><b=
>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT<u></u><u></u></p></div></div=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p style=3D"margin:0in"><sp=
an class=3D"m_3035444886437018827rynqvb"><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-si=
ze:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">As far as I can see here =
in Europe, the market for Austin-Healeys and comparable vehicles from the 1=
950s has collapsed extremely.</span></span><span class=3D"m_303544488643701=
8827hwtze"><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans=
-serif;color:black"> </span></span><span class=3D"m_3035444886437018827rynq=
vb"><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;=
color:black">It&#39;s like the pre-war vehicles.</span></span><span class=
=3D"m_3035444886437018827hwtze"><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;f=
ont-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"> </span></span><span class=3D"m_30=
35444886437018827rynqvb"><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fam=
ily:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">They can no longer keep up with today&#39=
;s traffic and on motorways they are quite problematic due to the high traf=
fic density and the many trucks that also recklessly swerve to overtake.</s=
pan></span><span class=3D"m_3035444886437018827hwtze"><span lang=3D"EN" sty=
le=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"> </span></sp=
an><span class=3D"m_3035444886437018827rynqvb"><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"f=
ont-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">A 100M and also a 1=
00 are no longer in demand.</span></span><span class=3D"m_30354448864370188=
27hwtze"><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-s=
erif;color:black"> </span></span><span class=3D"m_3035444886437018827rynqvb=
"><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;co=
lor:black">The clientele that still knows Austin-Healey from her past is al=
most extinct.</span></span><span class=3D"m_3035444886437018827hwtze"><span=
 lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:bla=
ck"> </span></span><span class=3D"m_3035444886437018827rynqvb"><span lang=
=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">H=
ardly anyone has met Donald Healey here.</span></span><span class=3D"m_3035=
444886437018827hwtze"><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family=
:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"> </span></span><span class=3D"m_303544488643=
7018827rynqvb"><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,=
sans-serif;color:black">I&#39;m 66 years old now and didn&#39;t know him ei=
ther.</span></span><span class=3D"m_3035444886437018827hwtze"><span lang=3D=
"EN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"> </s=
pan></span><span class=3D"m_3035444886437018827rynqvb"><span lang=3D"EN" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">I saw Geoff=
 once before he died, but we knew Margot quite well, having met through fri=
ends.</span></span><span class=3D"m_3035444886437018827hwtze"><span lang=3D=
"EN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"> </s=
pan></span><span class=3D"m_3035444886437018827rynqvb"><span lang=3D"EN" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">But back to=
 the 100M.</span></span><span class=3D"m_3035444886437018827hwtze"><span la=
ng=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"=
> </span></span><span class=3D"m_3035444886437018827rynqvb"><span lang=3D"E=
N" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Hardly=
 anyone here knows the difference between a 100 with a LeMans kit and a 100=
M.</span></span><span class=3D"m_3035444886437018827hwtze"><span lang=3D"EN=
" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"> </span=
></span><span class=3D"m_3035444886437018827rynqvb"><span lang=3D"EN" style=
=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">All of these a=
re then usually offered as 100 Le Mans.</span></span><span class=3D"m_30354=
44886437018827hwtze"><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:=
Arial,sans-serif;color:black"> </span></span><span class=3D"m_3035444886437=
018827rynqvb"><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,s=
ans-serif;color:black">If a genuine 100M is actually offered, the price is =
slightly higher than for a comparable 100, but not by a factor of 2. Nobody=
 actually pays that here.</span></span><span class=3D"m_3035444886437018827=
hwtze"><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-ser=
if;color:black"> There is also non who would pay 100K$ for a 100 or 100M. <=
/span></span><span class=3D"m_3035444886437018827rynqvb"><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">But as I =
said, Austin-Healeys are slow sellers and the 3000 BJ8 Ph2 is most in deman=
d because it offers just enough comfort.</span></span><span class=3D"m_3035=
444886437018827hwtze"><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family=
:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"> </span></span><span class=3D"m_303544488643=
7018827rynqvb"><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,=
sans-serif;color:black">But younger people don&#39;t want these old cars at=
 all.</span></span><span class=3D"m_3035444886437018827hwtze"><span lang=3D=
"EN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"> </s=
pan></span><span class=3D"m_3035444886437018827rynqvb"><span lang=3D"EN" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">They are lo=
oking for a BMW, Porsche or something else from the 70s or 80s that also of=
fers more safety and comfort and that they know from their youth. Lower pri=
ced british cars like MG Bs are also out. They are too expensive compared t=
o a Mazda MX-5, or Jaguar XK8 which are definitely the better cars compared=
.</span></span><u></u><u></u></p><p style=3D"margin:0in"><span class=3D"m_3=
035444886437018827rynqvb"><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Btw.: The Austin-Healey clubs here have =
gotten pretty tired. The beautiful events like International healey Weekend=
s that were offered 20 years ago are no longer offered in thre former glanc=
e for a long time. There are hardly any active people willing to do work fo=
r the clubs anymore. Those who do it are also a good 70 years old and what =
is then done is not really inviting. Many people now stay away from these e=
vents which are expensive, but not inviting.</span></span><u></u><u></u></p=
><p style=3D"margin:0in"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sa=
ns-serif;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p><p style=3D"margin:0in=
"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">J=
osef Eckert</span><u></u><u></u></p><p style=3D"margin:0in"><span style=3D"=
font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Germany</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p><p style=3D"margin:0in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p><p style=3D"m=
argin:0in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u><=
/u></p></div></div><br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>F=
rom:=C2=A0David Masucci &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=
=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>To:=C2=A0&quot;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&=
quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">jos=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>Cc:=C2=A0Bob Spidell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;, Mich=
ael Oritt &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;, Ahealey help &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:healeys=
@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>Bcc:=
=C2=A0<br>Date:=C2=A0Sun, 17 Dec 2023 08:10:57 -0500<br>Subject:=C2=A0Re: [=
Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT<br><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;">Al=
l of this is inevitable, and not a =C2=A0bad thing. Let=E2=80=99s just cont=
inue to enjoy what we can while we can. There will be other passions that w=
ill entice follow-on generations to enjoy memories from their youth.=C2=A0<=
div><br></div><div>Dave<br><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On Dec 1=
6, 2023, at 1:14 PM, josef-eckert--- via Healeys &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:heal=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:=
</div><br><div><div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><span style=3D"font-family:ar=
ial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;text-decoration:none"><span lang=3D=
"en"><span><span>As far as I can see here in Europe, the market for Austin-=
Healeys and comparable vehicles from the 1950s has collapsed extremely.</sp=
an></span> <span><span>It&#39;s like the pre-war vehicles.</span></span> <s=
pan><span>They can no longer keep up with today&#39;s traffic and on motorw=
ays they are quite problematic due to the high traffic density and the many=
 trucks that also recklessly swerve to overtake.</span></span> <span><span>=
A 100M and also a 100 are no longer in demand.</span></span> <span><span>Th=
e clientele that still knows Austin-Healey from her past is almost extinct.=
</span></span> <span><span>Hardly anyone has met Donald Healey here.</span>=
</span> <span><span>I&#39;m 66 years old now and didn&#39;t know him either=
.</span></span> <span><span>I saw Geoff once before he died, but we knew Ma=
rgot quite well, having met through friends.</span></span> <span><span>But =
back to the 100M.</span></span> <span><span>Hardly anyone here knows the di=
fference between a 100 with a LeMans kit and a 100M.</span></span> <span><s=
pan>All of these are then usually offered as 100 Le Mans.</span></span> <sp=
an><span>If a genuine 100M is actually offered, the price is slightly highe=
r than for a comparable 100, but not by a factor of 2. Nobody actually pays=
 that here.</span></span> There is also non who would pay 100K$ for a 100 o=
r 100M. <span><span>But as I said, Austin-Healeys are slow sellers and the =
3000 BJ8 Ph2 is most in demand because it offers just enough comfort.</span=
></span> <span><span>But younger people don&#39;t want these old cars at al=
l.</span></span> <span><span>They are looking for a BMW, Porsche or somethi=
ng else from the 70s or 80s that also offers more safety and comfort and th=
at they know from their youth. Lower priced british cars like MG Bs are als=
o out. They are too expensive compared to a Mazda MX-5, or Jaguar XK8 which=
 are definitely the better cars compared.<br></span></span></span></span></=
div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sa=
ns-serif;font-size:10pt;text-decoration:none"><span lang=3D"en"><span><span=
>Btw.: The Austin-Healey clubs here have gotten pretty tired. The beautiful=
 events like International healey Weekends that were offered 20 years ago a=
re no longer offered in thre former glance for a long time. There are hardl=
y any active people willing to do work for the clubs anymore. Those who do =
it are also a good 70 years old and what is then done is not really invitin=
g. Many people now stay away from these events which are expensive, but not=
 inviting.</span></span></span></span></div><p style=3D"margin:0px"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;text-decorati=
on:none">=C2=A0</span></p><div style=3D"margin:0px"><span style=3D"font-fam=
ily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;text-decoration:none">Josef E=
ckert</span></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><span style=3D"font-family:aria=
l,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;text-decoration:none">Germany</span><=
/div><p style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p><p style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p><p=
 style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p><div style=3D"margin:0px">-----Original-Nac=
hricht-----</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 10=
0M on BAT</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">Datum: 2023-12-16T17:41:57+0100</d=
iv><div style=3D"margin:0px">Von: &quot;Bob Spidell&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</=
div><div style=3D"margin:0px">An: &quot;Michael Oritt&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</=
a>&gt;</div><p style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p><p style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=
=A0</p><p style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p>
<div style=3D"font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal=
;font-stretch:normal;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;font-family:Arial,He=
lvetica,sans-serif">I think that&#39;s indisputable (I unintentionally negl=
ected to mention that aspect). That, and the fact the kits were selling mad=
e a case for selling the M (these days, that would take an army of marketin=
g people to figure out, with lots of &#39;data&#39; of course, and maybe so=
me AI). Doesn&#39;t negate the strong showing of taking, IIRC, 3 cars off t=
he lot--or was that the Bonneville cars?--hanging a few fancy bits on it an=
d giving the bespoke Ferraris, Jags, Astons, Mercedeses etc. a run for thei=
r money (the Healeys&#39; rugged simplicity likely helped). DMH was a brill=
iant marketer and salesman; he spotted the &#39;niche&#39; hole between low=
er--performance MGs--we&#39;re talking TCs and TDs, not Bs and Cs--and high=
er-performance but much more expensive Jaguars and plugged it. History says=
 he drove cross-county in the US to gauge the market; probably why he made =
overdrive an option from the get-go, for the wide-open US highways. I don&#=
39;t know Triumph history that well, was the TR2 a contemporary of the 100?=
<br><br>How many times have you been asked what your Healey is worth--usual=
ly by a &#39;not-a-car-person&#39;--and you&#39;ve replied &#39;Whatever so=
meone will pay me for it&#39; (then, if the person seems genuinely interest=
ed I may give a run-down of the contemporary market; these days &#39;not so=
 good&#39;). It&#39;s the same with other marques; witness the number of Ch=
evelle SS &#39;tribute&#39; cars going across the block at auctions. Genuin=
e Ms can command a 50-100% premium over comparable 100s; hence the intensit=
y of the interest and critique. Did you watch the BaT auction? It was prett=
y savage and enlightening, to me; I was surprised Bill let the incorrect ca=
rbs and distributor slide (maybe he was tired of doing the registry thing).=
 <br><br>From the late, great Gary Anderson:<br><br><a href=3D"https://aust=
inhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/The-Heritage-of-the=
-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf" target=3D"_blank">https://austinhealeyconcoursregist=
ry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/The-Heritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf<=
/a><br><br><br>
<div>On 12/16/2023 6:46 AM, Michael Oritt wrote:</div>
<blockquote>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)">Some feel that =
since DMH knew he was going to change over to a new car (the 100-6) he figu=
red out a clever marketing=C2=A0ploy to get rid of what might otherwise hav=
e become a less-than-desirable=C2=A0inventory of late production 100&#39;s =
by outfitting some of the cars with the snazzy M upgrade.=C2=A0 If so it wa=
s probably never his intention nor in his comprehension to produce=C2=A0wha=
t has ironically become a very special Healey second only to the 100-S in c=
ollectibility.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)">=C2=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)">Best--Michael O=
ritt</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 1:31=E2=80=AF=
AM Bob Spidell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank=
">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>The M was rated at 110HP--more if you got the optional branch extracto=
r--as opposed to a stock BN2&#39;s 90HP. That&#39;s a 22% increase in power=
; I&#39;d call that significant. Also, how do you &#39;hang&#39; a camshaft=
 and pistons on an engine (the mechanics were supposed to pull the engine, =
but if DMH and Geoff weren&#39;t around they&#39;d cheat and do the mods in=
 situ)?<br><br>I think at least part of the value of an M is that it made a=
n appearance at the Healey factory, possibly with DMH and/or Geoff in atten=
dance, as opposed to just coming off the Austin assembly line. Also, the mo=
difications were, for the most part, the same as made to the cars that ran =
at LeMans in &#39;52 (&#39;53?) and came in 13th (or 14th) overall. When cu=
stomers started asking for the same modifications DMH first sold a kit, the=
n the complete car (anyone remember &#39;Race on Sunday, sell on Monday?&#3=
9;).<br><br>I&#39;d say the market has spoken, since genuine M cars command=
 a significant price premium (hence why of the original, documented 640 car=
s only 3,000 remain). <br><br>bs<br><br><br>
<div>On 12/15/2023 2:16 PM, Michael Salter wrote:</div>
<blockquote>
<div dir=3D"auto">I&#39;m not an &quot;M&quot; guy really because as someon=
e mentioned there isn&#39;t that much to hanging the &quot;modification &qu=
ot; parts on any 100.=C2=A0
<div dir=3D"auto">If the &quot;M&quot; designation involved significant per=
formance modifications,=C2=A0 say like an &quot;M&quot; series BMW, which c=
ould not be easily copied, then I would consider them be very special.
<div dir=3D"auto">I understand that Mr Meade has now sold his &quot;M&quot;=
 so would not be surprised to see the &quot;Registry&quot; fade away.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Just my opinion.=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">M</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Fri., Dec. 15, 2023, 1:59 p.m. jos=
ef-eckert--- via Healeys, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" tar=
get=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<pre dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-=
size:12pt;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">What makes a 100M? Very g=
ood question and not easy to answer. In my opinion, an Austin-Healey 100M, =
especially as the price category is significantly higher than the normal 10=
0, is a car that any modification reduces its value. A heavily modified 100=
M is nothing special. It&#39;s a modified 100 and no longer an M. But this =
is my personal opinion. A new chassis would be such a major modification fo=
r me, as would a conversion to disc brakes at the front or a conversion to =
a Weber carburettors, etc. This would be simply no longer a Genuine 100M. I=
 would then rather buy an original Austin-Healey 100 for the same money. Bu=
t I have to admit, for me the hype surrounding the 100M is far exaggerated =
for what the car is. It&#39;s a special model with a little more horsepower=
, but not anything particularly special. Its like an Alpina BMW or a AMG Me=
rcedes. Josef Eckert Germany </span></pre><p style=3D"margin:0px"><span sty=
le=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;text-decoration=
:none">=C2=A0</span></p><p style=3D"margin:0px"><span style=3D"font-family:=
arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;text-decoration:none">=C2=A0</spa=
n></p><p style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p><p style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p><=
div style=3D"margin:0px">-----Original-Nachricht-----</div><div style=3D"ma=
rgin:0px">Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT</div><div style=3D"marg=
in:0px">Datum: 2023-12-15T18:07:16+0100</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">Von:=
 &quot;Bob Spidell&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D=
"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px">An: &quot;HealeyRick&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:healeyrik@=
gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;=
</div><p style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p><p style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p><=
p style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p>
<div style=3D"font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal=
;font-stretch:normal;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;font-family:Arial,He=
lvetica,sans-serif">Note the Registry will also certify &#39;Le Mans Conver=
sions,&#39; which may be what Kent&#39;s nasty is/was. Some have noted you =
can build a &#39;better M&#39; with aftermarket parts (Isky cam, alloy head=
, SBC, etc.). <br><br>I don&#39;t think either Kilmartin or Jules makes a 1=
00 chassis, but I&#39;d be somewhat more sympathetic to that, but not so mu=
ch hanging an M body and parts on a BN1 (a BN2, <em>maybe</em>). The main p=
roblem I see is an earnest owner may sell a conversion (aka &#39;counterfei=
t&#39;) with full disclosure, but an owner or two down the road the &#39;Tr=
ibute&#39; tag has been conveniently forgotten (I&#39;m not all in on &#39;=
tribute&#39; anything, be they cars or rock bands).<br><br><br>
<div>On 12/15/2023 7:17 AM, HealeyRick wrote:</div>
<blockquote>
<div dir=3D"ltr">This is all hypothesis based on speculation so take it wit=
h that caveat.=C2=A0 Let&#39;s say one had a rusty factory 100M that was so=
 bad it needed a new frame.=C2=A0 How hard would it be to transfer the 100M=
 body parts over to a solid BN1 chassis along with the oh-so-valuable chass=
is plate? The 100M Registry seems to focus mostly on the original body part=
s and cockpit surrounds to certify a car. Even cars with non-original engin=
es have been registered. I&#39;m pretty certain Kent Lacy&#39;s Nasty M was=
 on the registry. So is the BaT car still an M?=C2=A0 Some pretty valuable =
race cars have been crashed and fitted with=C2=A0new chassis and still brin=
g big money at auction.=C2=A0
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>To me, what makes an M an M is the motor.=C2=A0 If an M no longer has =
its original motor, or equal replacement, it has lost its character as an M=
. Otherwise, it&#39;s a BN2 with a louvered hood. It&#39;s almost like if a=
 Sunbeam Tiger blew its motor and it was replaced with an Alpine motor. Sur=
e, it&#39;s got the right serial number on the unibody, but it&#39;s not mu=
ch of a Tiger anymore. The BaT car with what appears to be non-original car=
bs and distributor caused me concern. Who would remove those from an origin=
al M motor? C&#39;mon 100M sellers, pop the valve cover, remove the rockers=
 and put a dial indicator on the pushrods so we can see if there is still a=
 100M cam in the lump!</div>
<div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>Happy Healeydays,</div>
<div>Rick Neville</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 1:05=E2=80=AF=
PM Bob Spidell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>Excellent report, thank you. <br><br>I was one of the commenters on Ba=
T--I joined BaT to comment--but, since I have a BN2/100M I&#39;m not famili=
ar with BN1 differences and could only point out obvious differences with m=
y car (which was completely original as far as I can tell, except for exten=
sive body work). One thing that was somewhat disturbing to me is that the R=
egistry certified this car, while noting some major anomalies (the carbs, f=
or instance, looked to be new and didn&#39;t have the hand scribing like my=
 car). <br><br>The other thing that interested me is, how do you value this=
 car? Yes, it&#39;s a very nice car, probably a good driver but, IMO, its v=
alue <em>should</em> be less than a comparably restored, original BN1 or BN=
2. And, what did the previous owner know, or should have known about this c=
ar? How do you present it for sale; as a BN1 with &#39;M bits?&#39; It woul=
d need the proverbial asterisk alongside the page title.<br><br>Bob<br><br>=
<br><br>
<div>On 12/14/2023 8:15 AM, S and T Miller wrote:</div>
<blockquote>
<div style=3D"font-family:inherit;font-size:inherit;color:inherit;backgroun=
d-color:transparent">
<div>If you were following it recently,=C2=A0 you might find my observation=
s interesting.=C2=A0 So I went down to Michael&#39;s motor cars to help him=
 determine if the 100m indeed has a BN1 chassis. Here is what I found.</div=
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>It has the BN1 inner fenders with the rolled pressings. It has the BN1=
 front brake hose frame mount the is less pronounced welded BN1 bracket, as=
 the later cars have a bolted on bracket. The front shock towers have no ev=
idence of being replaced and show the factory welds. The gearbox mount show=
s non-original/factory welds as if it were replaced to accommodate the BN2 =
mount.=C2=A0</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>What I found most interesting is that where a BN1 has two OD relays mo=
unted under the dash, it took shining a light it different directions to ju=
st make out the slight evidence of filled holes (4 of then for the two rela=
ys). And I was able to reach inside the vent just below that area with my f=
ingers and feel the welds and welding wire that was used to fill those 4 ho=
les. I can tell you someone took great care to try and make those holes see=
m as they never existed.=C2=A0 Along with that, where a BN2 would have the =
single OD relay attached to the firewall with machine screws screwed into w=
elded captive nuts on the firewall,=C2=A0 you can see plain sheet screws we=
re used to mount it in what would be a BN2 relay position.=C2=A0</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>I also feel the engine tag is a repo because of the lighter stamping. =
Originals tend to have the numbers/ letters stamped with a deeper end resul=
t.=C2=A0 I took my repo engine tag along to compare, and they appeared iden=
tical in the stampings. The body/ bath tag and VIN plate appear original. N=
ow that doesn&#39;t mean that the engine isn&#39;t the correct M engine, be=
cause there could be many reasons why the engine tag was replaced. Anyone w=
ho drove a stock 100 compared to a 100M can attest to the difference in pow=
er, and Mike stated that it indeed has that M power.=C2=A0</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>The boot lid shows no evidence of the stay bracket being swapped off a=
nother lid, and if you look closely you can see that the boot shows some pr=
evious age/life. I&#39;d believe it to be original. I could not make out an=
y evidence of the bonnet number being sliced in from a M bonnet, but I will=
 say that the underside of the bonnet seemed suspiciously clean and prestin=
e. I couldn&#39;t detect any age like the boot, but that would be for someo=
ne else to decide.=C2=A0</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>Mike had asked me if the cold air box was original,=C2=A0 and I simply=
 don&#39;t have that experience to know. I have anyways heard if it looks o=
ld, it&#39;s original.=C2=A0 It does indeed look to have some age, so?</div=
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>I feel at some point in this car&#39;s life someone went to some effor=
t to try and conceal that these 100M parts were reinstalled on a BN1 chassi=
s. Another interesting note is that there was an attempt to fill the holes =
where a BN1 chassis plate is fitted on the frame rail. Perhaps the person d=
idn&#39;t realize that the holes continued over to the BN2&#39;s, and thoug=
ht they were erasing evidence of a BN1 chassis?=C2=A0</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>With all that said, Mike is simply trying to represent the car correct=
ly. The car is a very nice car! Paint is very nice, car is straight, and ga=
ps look good. Interior is very nice, and looks to be a very good car all ar=
ound. I didn&#39;t drive the car, but Mike has years of experience under hi=
s belt, so I&#39;d trust his opinions on that. With the quality of the rest=
oration,=C2=A0 it is surprising that the front frame to shroud brackets wer=
e not welded to the frame. Chrome looks good, and I&#39;d think winning som=
e trophies at a popular vote car would not be an issue.=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>The Millers<br>=C2=A0<br>&quot;Always drive them, but remember each dr=
ive in an antique car is a test drive.&quot;</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
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--00000000000037ed2e060cba36b9--

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---

From: HealeyRick <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 18:29:46 -0500

--===============0314427666144438123==

--000000000000edda89060cbd02b2
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Craig,

Ethical commenters on BaT need to walk a tightrope between helping bidders
avoid a mistake or pooching a seller's sale. I won't comment on a sale of
someone I know because I don't want to be accused of puffing their sale or
OTOH submarining one that is being offered by a friend. If a seller doesn't
want honest opinions, go offer it somewhere else and stay off BaT. Someone
who benefitted from your advice should be thankful.  It's not supposed to
be a cheerleading squad every time a person puts a car up for auction.

Happy Healeydays,
Rick Neville

On Sun, Dec 17, 2023 at 3:52=E2=80=AFPM Craig Cooper <[email-masked]=
m> wrote:

> Re: Recent 100 M on BaT
>
> Rick and Bob:  I did it.  I was the one who posted on BaT Nov.16 that
> there is a problem with the front shock towers and maybe half a dozen oth=
er
> issues that went unanswered.  Being incredulous at the number of issues o=
n
> the bottom of the car, considering how glowingly it was being presented, =
I
> around video and simply couldn't contain myself.  Maybe it would have bee=
n
> Healey 100 enthusiast having  paid top dollar for this car entering it in=
 a
> On Sun, Dec 17, 2023 at 11:01=E2=80=AFAM <[email-masked]>=
 wrote:
>> > Regarding the 100M Registry, Lynn Martin and I volunteered to take ove=
r
>> for this car (or did it sell?). If it's presented truthfully, as having =
a
>> replacement chassis and possibly carbs and distributor I'd have no issue=
s
>> certificate certifying? Bill Meade has written an article on what needs =
to
>> <https://www.100mregistry.com/PROTECTING_YOUR_100M_Feb_2013.pdf>   But
>> it seems to me it mainly focuses on the body parts that it left the fact=
ory
>> with. I find it interesting there's no necessity for pictures of the eng=
ine
>> there, Bill says in the article  "If some of these items are missing, le=
t
>> enough ID points are present."  So my impression, which I'll try to veri=
fy
>> with Bill, is the certification is focused on the question whether this =
is
>> the car that left the factory that matches the BMIHT certificate saying =
it
>> probably not so much for sellers) is pointing out major deficiencies wit=
h
>> an offering. Some buyer might have paid way more this car than it would =
be
>> On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 11:46=E2=80=AFAM Bob Spidell <[email-masked]=
et>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I think that's indisputable (I unintentionally neglected to mention tha=
t
>>> aspect). That, and the fact the kits were selling made a case for selli=
ng
>>> the M (these days, that would take an army of marketing people to figur=
e
>>> out, with lots of 'data' of course, and maybe some AI). Doesn't negate =
the
>>> Ferraris, Jags, Astons, Mercedeses etc. a run for their money (the Heal=
eys'
>>> salesman; he spotted the 'niche' hole between lower--performance MGs--w=
e're
>>> talking TCs and TDs, not Bs and Cs--and higher-performance but much mor=
e
>>> expensive Jaguars and plugged it. History says he drove cross-county in=
 the
>>> US to gauge the market; probably why he made overdrive an option from t=
he
>>> get-go, for the wide-open US highways. I don't know Triumph history tha=
t
>>> How many times have you been asked what your Healey is worth--usually b=
y
>>> a 'not-a-car-person'--and you've replied 'Whatever someone will pay me =
for
>>> it' (then, if the person seems genuinely interested I may give a run-do=
wn
>>> of the contemporary market; these days 'not so good'). It's the same wi=
th
>>> across the block at auctions. Genuine Ms can command a 50-100% premium =
over
>>> comparable 100s; hence the intensity of the interest and critique. Did =
you
>>> watch the BaT auction? It was pretty savage and enlightening, to me; I =
was
>>> surprised Bill let the incorrect carbs and distributor slide (maybe he =
was
>>> https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/The=
-Heritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf
>>> (the 100-6) he figured out a clever marketing ploy to get rid of what m=
ight
>>> otherwise have become a less-than-desirable inventory of late productio=
n
>>> 100's by outfitting some of the cars with the snazzy M upgrade.  If so =
it
>>> was probably never his intention nor in his comprehension to produce wh=
at
>>> On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 1:31=E2=80=AFAM Bob Spidell <[email-masked]=
et>
>>>> power; I'd call that significant. Also, how do you 'hang' a camshaft a=
nd
>>>> pistons on an engine (the mechanics were supposed to pull the engine, =
but
>>>> I think at least part of the value of an M is that it made an
>>>> appearance at the Healey factory, possibly with DMH and/or Geoff in
>>>> attendance, as opposed to just coming off the Austin assembly line. Al=
so,
>>>> the modifications were, for the most part, the same as made to the car=
s
>>>> that ran at LeMans in '52 ('53?) and came in 13th (or 14th) overall. W=
hen
>>>> customers started asking for the same modifications DMH first sold a k=
it,
>>>> then the complete car (anyone remember 'Race on Sunday, sell on Monday=
?').
>>>> significant price premium (hence why of the original, documented 640 c=
ars
>>>> I'm not an "M" guy really because as someone mentioned there isn't tha=
t
>>>> say like an "M" series BMW, which could not be easily copied, then I w=
ould
>>>>> In my opinion, an Austin-Healey 100M, especially as the price categor=
y is significantly higher than the normal 100,
>>>>> is a car that any modification reduces its value. A heavily modified =
100M is nothing special. It's a modified 100 and
>>>>> no longer an M. But this is my personal opinion. A new chassis would =
be such a major modification for me, as would a
>>>>> conversion to disc brakes at the front or a conversion to a Weber car=
burettors, etc. This would be simply no longer a
>>>>> Genuine 100M. I would then rather buy an original Austin-Healey 100 f=
or the same money. But I have to admit, for me
>>>>> the hype surrounding the 100M is far exaggerated for what the car is.=
>>>>> horsepower, but not anything particularly special. Its like an Alpina=
 BMW or a AMG Mercedes.
>>>>> Note the Registry will also certify 'Le Mans Conversions,' which may
>>>>> be what Kent's nasty is/was. Some have noted you can build a 'better =
M'
>>>>> with aftermarket parts (Isky cam, alloy head, SBC, etc.).
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think either Kilmartin or Jules makes a 100 chassis, but I'd
>>>>> be somewhat more sympathetic to that, but not so much hanging an M bo=
dy and
>>>>> owner may sell a conversion (aka 'counterfeit') with full disclosure,=
 but
>>>>> caveat.  Let's say one had a rusty factory 100M that was so bad it ne=
eded a
>>>>> new frame.  How hard would it be to transfer the 100M body parts over=
 to a
>>>>> solid BN1 chassis along with the oh-so-valuable chassis plate? The 10=
0M
>>>>> surrounds to certify a car. Even cars with non-original engines have =
been
>>>>> registered. I'm pretty certain Kent Lacy's Nasty M was on the registr=
y. So
>>>>> crashed and fitted with new chassis and still bring big money at auct=
ion.
>>>>> original motor, or equal replacement, it has lost its character as an=
 M.
>>>>> Otherwise, it's a BN2 with a louvered hood. It's almost like if a Sun=
beam
>>>>> Tiger blew its motor and it was replaced with an Alpine motor. Sure, =
it's
>>>>> got the right serial number on the unibody, but it's not much of a Ti=
ger
>>>>> distributor caused me concern. Who would remove those from an origina=
l M
>>>>> motor? C'mon 100M sellers, pop the valve cover, remove the rockers an=
d put
>>>>> a dial indicator on the pushrods so we can see if there is still a 10=
0M cam
>>>>> in the lump!
>>>>>
>>>>> Happy Healeydays,
>>>>> Rick Neville
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 1:05=E2=80=AFPM Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast=
.net>
>>>>>> since I have a BN2/100M I'm not familiar with BN1 differences and co=
uld
>>>>>> original as far as I can tell, except for extensive body work). One =
thing
>>>>>> that was somewhat disturbing to me is that the Registry certified th=
is car,
>>>>>> while noting some major anomalies (the carbs, for instance, looked t=
o be
>>>>>> The other thing that interested me is, how do you value this car?
>>>>>> Yes, it's a very nice car, probably a good driver but, IMO, its valu=
e
>>>>>> And, what did the previous owner know, or should have known about th=
is car?
>>>>>> How do you present it for sale; as a BN1 with 'M bits?' It would nee=
d the
>>>>>> interesting.  So I went down to Michael's motor cars to help him det=
ermine
>>>>>> It has the BN1 inner fenders with the rolled pressings. It has the
>>>>>> BN1 front brake hose frame mount the is less pronounced welded BN1 b=
racket,
>>>>>> as the later cars have a bolted on bracket. The front shock towers h=
ave no
>>>>>> evidence of being replaced and show the factory welds. The gearbox m=
ount
>>>>>> shows non-original/factory welds as if it were replaced to accommoda=
te the
>>>>>> mounted under the dash, it took shining a light it different directi=
ons to
>>>>>> just make out the slight evidence of filled holes (4 of then for the=
 two
>>>>>> relays). And I was able to reach inside the vent just below that are=
a with
>>>>>> my fingers and feel the welds and welding wire that was used to fill=
 those
>>>>>> 4 holes. I can tell you someone took great care to try and make thos=
e holes
>>>>>> seem as they never existed.  Along with that, where a BN2 would have=
 the
>>>>>> single OD relay attached to the firewall with machine screws screwed=
 into
>>>>>> welded captive nuts on the firewall,  you can see plain sheet screws=
 were
>>>>>> I also feel the engine tag is a repo because of the lighter stamping=
.
>>>>>> Originals tend to have the numbers/ letters stamped with a deeper en=
d
>>>>>> result.  I took my repo engine tag along to compare, and they appear=
ed
>>>>>> original. Now that doesn't mean that the engine isn't the correct M =
engine,
>>>>>> because there could be many reasons why the engine tag was replaced.=
 Anyone
>>>>>> who drove a stock 100 compared to a 100M can attest to the differenc=
e in
>>>>>> another lid, and if you look closely you can see that the boot shows=
 some
>>>>>> previous age/life. I'd believe it to be original. I could not make o=
ut any
>>>>>> evidence of the bonnet number being sliced in from a M bonnet, but I=
 will
>>>>>> prestine. I couldn't detect any age like the boot, but that would be=
 for
>>>>>> don't have that experience to know. I have anyways heard if it looks=
 old,
>>>>>> I feel at some point in this car's life someone went to some effort
>>>>>> to try and conceal that these 100M parts were reinstalled on a BN1 c=
hassis.
>>>>>> Another interesting note is that there was an attempt to fill the ho=
les
>>>>>> where a BN1 chassis plate is fitted on the frame rail. Perhaps the p=
erson
>>>>>> didn't realize that the holes continued over to the BN2's, and thoug=
ht they
>>>>>> correctly. The car is a very nice car! Paint is very nice, car is st=
raight,
>>>>>> and gaps look good. Interior is very nice, and looks to be a very go=
od car
>>>>>> all around. I didn't drive the car, but Mike has years of experience=
 under
>>>>>> restoration,  it is surprising that the front frame to shroud bracke=
ts were
>>>>>> not welded to the frame. Chrome looks good, and I'd think winning so=
me
>> are large numbers of retired people.  My good friend and President of ou=
r
>> British Car Club Hermann Schuller formerly of Germany has said that youn=
ger
>> people want Japanese or European sports cars.  It is the same for those =
who
>> enjoy boating.  Sailors today are 55 to 80 years old.  I had to give awa=
y
>> Michigan as younger boaters want speed and comfort.  I still have anothe=
r
>> younger 28-foot sailboat in Punta Gorda, Florida and will continue to sa=
il
>> in accordance with the agreement with my wife that I will not sail alone=
.
>>
>>
>>
>> Also, our British Car Club of SW Florida is very large and growing thank=
s
>> to the efforts of Hermann who revived the club.  He is a born salesman a=
nd
>> *From:* Healeys <[email-masked]> *On Behalf Of *josef-ec=
kert---
>> comparable vehicles from the 1950s has collapsed extremely. It's like
>> the pre-war vehicles. They can no longer keep up with today's traffic
>> and on motorways they are quite problematic due to the high traffic dens=
ity
>> and the many trucks that also recklessly swerve to overtake. A 100M and
>> also a 100 are no longer in demand. The clientele that still knows
>> offered, the price is slightly higher than for a comparable 100, but not=
 by
>> would pay 100K$ for a 100 or 100M. But as I said, Austin-Healeys are
>> slow sellers and the 3000 BJ8 Ph2 is most in demand because it offers ju=
st
>> enough comfort. But younger people don't want these old cars at all. The=
y
>> are looking for a BMW, Porsche or something else from the 70s or 80s tha=
t
>> Lower priced british cars like MG Bs are also out. They are too expensiv=
e
>> Btw.: The Austin-Healey clubs here have gotten pretty tired. The
>> beautiful events like International healey Weekends that were offered 20
>> years ago are no longer offered in thre former glance for a long time.
>> There are hardly any active people willing to do work for the clubs
>> anymore. Those who do it are also a good 70 years old and what is then d=
one
>> is not really inviting. Many people now stay away from these events whic=
h
>> are expensive, but not inviting.
>>
>>
>>
>> Josef Eckert
>>
>> Germany
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> All of this is inevitable, and not a  bad thing. Let=E2=80=99s just cont=
inue to
>> comparable vehicles from the 1950s has collapsed extremely. It's like
>> the pre-war vehicles. They can no longer keep up with today's traffic
>> and on motorways they are quite problematic due to the high traffic dens=
ity
>> and the many trucks that also recklessly swerve to overtake. A 100M and
>> also a 100 are no longer in demand. The clientele that still knows
>> offered, the price is slightly higher than for a comparable 100, but not=
 by
>> would pay 100K$ for a 100 or 100M. But as I said, Austin-Healeys are
>> slow sellers and the 3000 BJ8 Ph2 is most in demand because it offers ju=
st
>> enough comfort. But younger people don't want these old cars at all. The=
y
>> are looking for a BMW, Porsche or something else from the 70s or 80s tha=
t
>> Lower priced british cars like MG Bs are also out. They are too expensiv=
e
>> Btw.: The Austin-Healey clubs here have gotten pretty tired. The
>> beautiful events like International healey Weekends that were offered 20
>> years ago are no longer offered in thre former glance for a long time.
>> There are hardly any active people willing to do work for the clubs
>> anymore. Those who do it are also a good 70 years old and what is then d=
one
>> is not really inviting. Many people now stay away from these events whic=
h
>> are expensive, but not inviting.
>>
>>
>> Josef Eckert
>> Germany
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
g
he
ys'
're
the
e
or
n
h
ver
ou
as
as
ght
t
t
d
ut
e
t
t,
').
rs
uld
>>>> What makes a 100M? Very good question and not easy to answer. In my op=
inion, an Austin-Healey 100M, especially as the price category is significa=
ntly higher than the normal 100, is a car that any modification reduces its=
 value. A heavily modified 100M is nothing special. It's a modified 100 and=
 no longer an M. But this is my personal opinion. A new chassis would be su=
ch a major modification for me, as would a conversion to disc brakes at the=
 front or a conversion to a Weber carburettors, etc. This would be simply n=
o longer a Genuine 100M. I would then rather buy an original Austin-Healey =
100 for the same money. But I have to admit, for me the hype surrounding th=
e 100M is far exaggerated for what the car is. It's a special model with a =
little more horsepower, but not anything particularly special. Its like an =
Alpina BMW or a AMG Mercedes. Josef Eckert Germany
e
ith
e
nd
but
ded a
to a
M
een
. So
on.
M.
eam
t's
er
 M
 put
M cam
net>
ld
hing
s car,
 be
,
s car?
 the
rmine
1
t, as
no
unt
e the
ns to
two
 with
those
 holes
the
into
were
d
ngine,
Anyone
 in
some
t any
will
for
old,
o
is.
es
rson
t they
aight,
d car
under
s were
e
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]

--000000000000edda89060cbd02b2
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Craig,<div><br></div><div>Ethical commenters on BaT need t=
o walk a tightrope between helping bidders avoid a mistake or pooching a se=
ller&#39;s sale. I won&#39;t comment on a sale of someone I know because I =
don&#39;t want to be accused of puffing their sale or OTOH submarining one =
that is being offered by a friend. If a seller doesn&#39;t want honest opin=
ions, go offer it somewhere else and stay off BaT. Someone who benefitted f=
rom your advice should be thankful.=C2=A0 It&#39;s not supposed to be a che=
erleading squad every time=C2=A0a person puts a car up for auction.</div><d=
iv><br></div><div>Happy Healeydays,</div><div>Rick Neville</div></div><br><=
div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Dec=
 17, 2023 at 3:52=E2=80=AFPM Craig Cooper &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:craiginchic=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid =
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_def=
ault" style=3D"font-size:large">Re: Recent 100 M on BaT</div><div class=3D"=
gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:large"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_defa=
ult" style=3D"font-size:large">Rick and Bob:=C2=A0 I did it.=C2=A0 I was th=
e one who posted on BaT Nov.16 that there is a problem with the front shock=
 towers and maybe half a dozen other issues that went unanswered.=C2=A0 Bei=
ng incredulous at the number of issues on the bottom of the car, considerin=
g how glowingly it was being presented, I showed the pictures to my fellow =
Healey 100 obsessed neighbor who said &quot;Aren&#39;t those BN1 shock towe=
rs?&quot;=C2=A0 I had also recently watched the walk around video and simpl=
y couldn&#39;t contain myself.=C2=A0 Maybe it would have been better to jus=
t reach out to the seller, but I didn&#39;t think of that until just now.=
=C2=A0 Contrary to being savage, I think my remarks showed restraint.=C2=A0=
 There is a lot more there, and I didn&#39;t mention any of the top side pr=
oblems.=C2=A0 (Bob, I laughed=C2=A0when I read your &quot;ashtray delete&qu=
ot; remark)=C2=A0 I think the open discussion of shortcomings of cars liste=
d on BaT benefits both the buyer and the seller.=C2=A0 Imagine the embarras=
sment=C2=A0of a neophyte Healey 100 enthusiast having=C2=A0 paid top dollar=
 for this car entering it in a concours (&quot;would be welcome and do well=
 in any concours&quot;) and having it judged to AH Club USA concours standa=
rds, or more likely declined to be judged.=C2=A0 Think he might seek legal =
remedy?=C2=A0 I wouldn&#39;t want to be the guy who sold it to him.</div><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:large"><br></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:large">=C2=A0=C2=A0</div></div><br><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Dec =
17, 2023 at 11:01=E2=80=AFAM &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
am.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>=
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;b=
order-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>Send Healeys m=
ailing list submissions to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" targe=
t=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listin=
fo/healeys" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mail=
man/listinfo/healeys</a><br>
or, via email, send a message with subject or body &#39;help&#39; to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
t" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
 target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than &quot;Re: Contents of Healeys digest...&quot;<br>
Today&#39;s Topics:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A01. Re: Recent 100M on BAT (Mark Bradakis)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A02. Re: Recent 100M on BAT (Bob Spidell)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A03. Re: Recent 100M on BAT (<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
m" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A04. Re: Recent 100M on BAT (David Masucci)<br>
<br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From:=C2=A0Mark Brad=
akis &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">mark@bradak=
is.com</a>&gt;<br>To:=C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=
=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br>Cc:=C2=A0<br>Bcc:=C2=A0<br>Date:=
=C2=A0Sat, 16 Dec 2023 13:56:44 -0700<br>Subject:=C2=A0Re: [Healeys] Recent=
 100M on BAT<br>On 12/16/23 9:55 AM, Curtis Arndt via Healeys wrote:<br>
&gt; Regarding the 100M Registry, Lynn Martin and I volunteered to take ove=
r <br>
&gt; the registry, but after several hours of discussion, the cost of doing=
 <br>
&gt; so came up and we decided that the price of admission was way too high=
 <br>
&gt; for something with little to no financial gain and a lot of work invol=
ved.<br>
<br>
Try running Team Net for 30+ years!<br>
<br>
mjb.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From:=C2=A0Bob Spide=
ll &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">bspidell@c=
omcast.net</a>&gt;<br>To:=C2=A0HealeyRick &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:healeyrik@g=
mail.com" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>Cc:=C2=A0Michael=
 Oritt &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">mic=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
t" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<b=
r>Bcc:=C2=A0<br>Date:=C2=A0Sat, 16 Dec 2023 16:43:03 -0800<br>Subject:=C2=
=A0Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT<br><u></u>

 =20
   =20
 =20
  <div>
    Rick,<br>
    <br>
                </div>
                  Oritt</div>
              </div>
              <br>
                    <br>
                          <div dir=3D"auto">Just my opinion.=C2=A0</div>
                          <div dir=3D"auto"><br>
                          </div>
                          <div dir=3D"auto">M</div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <br>
                      <div class=3D"gmail_quote">
                        <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri., Dec.
                          15, 2023, 1:59 p.m. josef-eckert--- via
                          Healeys, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                          wrote:<br>
                        </div>
                        <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0=
px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                          <div>
                            <pre id=3D"m_-4437042785009811673m_303544488643=
7018827m_1603492253125454553m_-4413793566936237617m_-8948067483587624533tw-=
target-text" dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"text-align:left"><span style=3D"font-size=
:12pt;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" lang=3D"en">What makes a 100M=
?=20
Very good question and not easy to answer.

Josef Eckert
Germany
</span></pre>

<br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From:=C2=A0&lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&g=
t;<br>To:=C2=A0&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_b=
lank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>Cc:=C2=A0&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:he=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>B=
cc:=C2=A0<br>Date:=C2=A0Sun, 17 Dec 2023 05:06:32 -0500<br>Subject:=C2=A0Re=
: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT<br><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Dear Jos=
ef:<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size=
:16pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">=
Your comments are the same in the USA especially in Florida where there are=
 large numbers of retired people.=C2=A0 My good friend and President of our=
 British Car Club Hermann Schuller formerly of Germany has said that younge=
r people want Japanese or European sports cars.=C2=A0 It is the same for th=
ose who enjoy boating.=C2=A0 Sailors today are 55 to 80 years old.=C2=A0 I =
had to give away my 1967 28-foot sailboat in good condition at our summer h=
ome on Lake Michigan as younger boaters want speed and comfort.=C2=A0 I sti=
ll have another younger 28-foot sailboat in Punta Gorda, Florida and will c=
ontinue to sail in accordance with the agreement with my wife that I will n=
ot sail alone.=C2=A0 <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-family:=
Arial,sans-serif">Also, our British Car Club of SW Florida is very large an=
d growing thanks to the efforts of Hermann who revived the club.=C2=A0 He i=
s a born salesman and a lover of old sports cars.<u></u><u></u></span></p><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-family:Arial,sans-=
serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D=
"font-size:16pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-family:Arial,=
sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:16pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Bob Begani<u></u><u></u>=
</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-family=
:Arial,sans-serif">67 BJ8<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u><=
/u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-fam=
ily:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
><span style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<=
u></u></span></p><div><div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;bo=
rder-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in"><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Healeys &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:healeys-bo=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&=
gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>josef-eckert--- via Healeys<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturda=
y, December 16, 2023 1:15 PM<br><b>To:</b> Bob Spidell &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; Mic=
hael Oritt &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank"=
>[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:healeys@au=
tox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br><b>Subject:</=
b> Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p style=3D"margin:0in"><span><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:blac=
k">As far as I can see here in Europe, the market for Austin-Healeys and co=
mparable vehicles from the 1950s has collapsed extremely.</span></span><spa=
n><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;co=
lor:black"> </span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;f=
ont-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">It&#39;s like the pre-war vehicles=
.</span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:=
Arial,sans-serif;color:black"> </span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=
=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">They can no lo=
nger keep up with today&#39;s traffic and on motorways they are quite probl=
ematic due to the high traffic density and the many trucks that also reckle=
ssly swerve to overtake.</span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font=
-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"> </span></span><span><=
span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color=
:black">A 100M and also a 100 are no longer in demand.</span></span><span><=
span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color=
:black"> </span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font=
-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">The clientele that still knows Austin=
-Healey from her past is almost extinct.</span></span><span><span lang=3D"E=
N" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"> </spa=
n></span><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,=
sans-serif;color:black">Hardly anyone has met Donald Healey here.</span></s=
pan><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-=
serif;color:black"> </span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-siz=
e:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">I&#39;m 66 years old now a=
nd didn&#39;t know him either.</span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=
=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"> </span></span=
><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-ser=
if;color:black">I saw Geoff once before he died, but we knew Margot quite w=
ell, having met through friends.</span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=
=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"> </span></span=
><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-ser=
if;color:black">But back to the 100M.</span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"> </span><=
/span><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,san=
s-serif;color:black">Hardly anyone here knows the difference between a 100 =
with a LeMans kit and a 100M.</span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D=
"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"> </span></span><s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;=
color:black">All of these are then usually offered as 100 Le Mans.</span></=
span><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans=
-serif;color:black"> </span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-si=
ze:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">If a genuine 100M is actu=
ally offered, the price is slightly higher than for a comparable 100, but n=
ot by a factor of 2. Nobody actually pays that here.</span></span><span><sp=
an lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:b=
lack"> There is also non who would pay 100K$ for a 100 or 100M. </span></sp=
an><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-s=
erif;color:black">But as I said, Austin-Healeys are slow sellers and the 30=
00 BJ8 Ph2 is most in demand because it offers just enough comfort.</span><=
/span><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,san=
s-serif;color:black"> </span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-s=
ize:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">But younger people don&#=
39;t want these old cars at all.</span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=
=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"> </span></span=
><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-ser=
if;color:black">They are looking for a BMW, Porsche or something else from =
the 70s or 80s that also offers more safety and comfort and that they know =
from their youth. Lower priced british cars like MG Bs are also out. They a=
re too expensive compared to a Mazda MX-5, or Jaguar XK8 which are definite=
ly the better cars compared.</span></span><u></u><u></u></p><p style=3D"mar=
gin:0in"><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,=
sans-serif;color:black">Btw.: The Austin-Healey clubs here have gotten pret=
ty tired. The beautiful events like International healey Weekends that were=
 offered 20 years ago are no longer offered in thre former glance for a lon=
g time. There are hardly any active people willing to do work for the clubs=
 anymore. Those who do it are also a good 70 years old and what is then don=
e is not really inviting. Many people now stay away from these events which=
 are expensive, but not inviting.</span></span><u></u><u></u></p><p style=
=3D"margin:0in"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;=
color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p><p style=3D"margin:0in"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Josef Ecke=
rt</span><u></u><u></u></p><p style=3D"margin:0in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Germany</span><u></u><u></u=
></p><p style=3D"margin:0in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p><p style=3D"margin:0in=
">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></=
div></div><br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From:=C2=
=A0David Masucci &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_bla=
nk">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>To:=C2=A0&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:josef-=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&quot; &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">josef-ecker=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>Cc:=C2=A0Bob Spidell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bspidel=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;, Michael Orit=
t &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">michael.=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;, Ahealey help &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
eam.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>Bcc:=C2=A0<br>=
Date:=C2=A0Sun, 17 Dec 2023 08:10:57 -0500<br>Subject:=C2=A0Re: [Healeys] R=
ecent 100M on BAT<br><div>All of this is inevitable, and not a =C2=A0bad th=
ing. Let=E2=80=99s just continue to enjoy what we can while we can. There w=
ill be other passions that will entice follow-on generations to enjoy memor=
ies from their youth.=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>Dave<br><div><br><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite"><div>On Dec 16, 2023, at 1:14 PM, josef-eckert--- via Healey=
s &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">healeys@a=
utox.team.net</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br><div><div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><=
span style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;text-de=
coration:none"><span lang=3D"en"><span><span>As far as I can see here in Eu=
rope, the market for Austin-Healeys and comparable vehicles from the 1950s =
has collapsed extremely.</span></span> <span><span>It&#39;s like the pre-wa=
r vehicles.</span></span> <span><span>They can no longer keep up with today=
&#39;s traffic and on motorways they are quite problematic due to the high =
traffic density and the many trucks that also recklessly swerve to overtake=
.</span></span> <span><span>A 100M and also a 100 are no longer in demand.<=
/span></span> <span><span>The clientele that still knows Austin-Healey from=
 her past is almost extinct.</span></span> <span><span>Hardly anyone has me=
t Donald Healey here.</span></span> <span><span>I&#39;m 66 years old now an=
d didn&#39;t know him either.</span></span> <span><span>I saw Geoff once be=
fore he died, but we knew Margot quite well, having met through friends.</s=
pan></span> <span><span>But back to the 100M.</span></span> <span><span>Har=
dly anyone here knows the difference between a 100 with a LeMans kit and a =
100M.</span></span> <span><span>All of these are then usually offered as 10=
0 Le Mans.</span></span> <span><span>If a genuine 100M is actually offered,=
 the price is slightly higher than for a comparable 100, but not by a facto=
r of 2. Nobody actually pays that here.</span></span> There is also non who=
 would pay 100K$ for a 100 or 100M. <span><span>But as I said, Austin-Heale=
ys are slow sellers and the 3000 BJ8 Ph2 is most in demand because it offer=
s just enough comfort.</span></span> <span><span>But younger people don&#39=
;t want these old cars at all.</span></span> <span><span>They are looking f=
or a BMW, Porsche or something else from the 70s or 80s that also offers mo=
re safety and comfort and that they know from their youth. Lower priced bri=
tish cars like MG Bs are also out. They are too expensive compared to a Maz=
da MX-5, or Jaguar XK8 which are definitely the better cars compared.<br></=
span></span></span></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;text-decoration:none"><=
span lang=3D"en"><span><span>Btw.: The Austin-Healey clubs here have gotten=
 pretty tired. The beautiful events like International healey Weekends that=
 were offered 20 years ago are no longer offered in thre former glance for =
a long time. There are hardly any active people willing to do work for the =
clubs anymore. Those who do it are also a good 70 years old and what is the=
n done is not really inviting. Many people now stay away from these events =
which are expensive, but not inviting.</span></span></span></span></div><p =
style=3D"margin:0px"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;=
font-size:10pt;text-decoration:none">=C2=A0</span></p><div style=3D"margin:=
0px"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;t=
ext-decoration:none">Josef Eckert</span></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;text-deco=
ration:none">Germany</span></div><p style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p><p style=
=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p><p style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p><div style=3D"m=
argin:0px">-----Original-Nachricht-----</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">Betr=
eff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">Datum:=
 2023-12-16T17:41:57+0100</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">Von: &quot;Bob Spi=
dell&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">bs=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">An: &quot;Michael=
 Oritt&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blan=
k">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</div><p style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p><=
p style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p><p style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p>
<div style=3D"font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal=
;font-stretch:normal;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;font-family:Arial,He=
lvetica,sans-serif">I think that&#39;s indisputable (I unintentionally negl=
ected to mention that aspect). That, and the fact the kits were selling mad=
e a case for selling the M (these days, that would take an army of marketin=
g people to figure out, with lots of &#39;data&#39; of course, and maybe so=
me AI). Doesn&#39;t negate the strong showing of taking, IIRC, 3 cars off t=
he lot--or was that the Bonneville cars?--hanging a few fancy bits on it an=
d giving the bespoke Ferraris, Jags, Astons, Mercedeses etc. a run for thei=
r money (the Healeys&#39; rugged simplicity likely helped). DMH was a brill=
iant marketer and salesman; he spotted the &#39;niche&#39; hole between low=
er--performance MGs--we&#39;re talking TCs and TDs, not Bs and Cs--and high=
er-performance but much more expensive Jaguars and plugged it. History says=
 he drove cross-county in the US to gauge the market; probably why he made =
overdrive an option from the get-go, for the wide-open US highways. I don&#=
39;t know Triumph history that well, was the TR2 a contemporary of the 100?=
<br><br>How many times have you been asked what your Healey is worth--usual=
ly by a &#39;not-a-car-person&#39;--and you&#39;ve replied &#39;Whatever so=
meone will pay me for it&#39; (then, if the person seems genuinely interest=
ed I may give a run-down of the contemporary market; these days &#39;not so=
 good&#39;). It&#39;s the same with other marques; witness the number of Ch=
evelle SS &#39;tribute&#39; cars going across the block at auctions. Genuin=
e Ms can command a 50-100% premium over comparable 100s; hence the intensit=
y of the interest and critique. Did you watch the BaT auction? It was prett=
y savage and enlightening, to me; I was surprised Bill let the incorrect ca=
rbs and distributor slide (maybe he was tired of doing the registry thing).=
 <br><br>From the late, great Gary Anderson:<br><br><a href=3D"https://aust=
inhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/The-Heritage-of-the=
-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf" target=3D"_blank">https://austinhealeyconcoursregist=
ry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/The-Heritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf<=
/a><br><br><br>
<div>On 12/16/2023 6:46 AM, Michael Oritt wrote:</div>
<blockquote>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)">Some feel that =
since DMH knew he was going to change over to a new car (the 100-6) he figu=
red out a clever marketing=C2=A0ploy to get rid of what might otherwise hav=
e become a less-than-desirable=C2=A0inventory of late production 100&#39;s =
by outfitting some of the cars with the snazzy M upgrade.=C2=A0 If so it wa=
s probably never his intention nor in his comprehension to produce=C2=A0wha=
t has ironically become a very special Healey second only to the 100-S in c=
ollectibility.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)">=C2=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)">Best--Michael O=
ritt</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 1:31=E2=80=AF=
AM Bob Spidell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank=
">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>The M was rated at 110HP--more if you got the optional branch extracto=
r--as opposed to a stock BN2&#39;s 90HP. That&#39;s a 22% increase in power=
; I&#39;d call that significant. Also, how do you &#39;hang&#39; a camshaft=
 and pistons on an engine (the mechanics were supposed to pull the engine, =
but if DMH and Geoff weren&#39;t around they&#39;d cheat and do the mods in=
 situ)?<br><br>I think at least part of the value of an M is that it made a=
n appearance at the Healey factory, possibly with DMH and/or Geoff in atten=
dance, as opposed to just coming off the Austin assembly line. Also, the mo=
difications were, for the most part, the same as made to the cars that ran =
at LeMans in &#39;52 (&#39;53?) and came in 13th (or 14th) overall. When cu=
stomers started asking for the same modifications DMH first sold a kit, the=
n the complete car (anyone remember &#39;Race on Sunday, sell on Monday?&#3=
9;).<br><br>I&#39;d say the market has spoken, since genuine M cars command=
 a significant price premium (hence why of the original, documented 640 car=
s only 3,000 remain). <br><br>bs<br><br><br>
<div>On 12/15/2023 2:16 PM, Michael Salter wrote:</div>
<blockquote>
<div dir=3D"auto">I&#39;m not an &quot;M&quot; guy really because as someon=
e mentioned there isn&#39;t that much to hanging the &quot;modification &qu=
ot; parts on any 100.=C2=A0
<div dir=3D"auto">If the &quot;M&quot; designation involved significant per=
formance modifications,=C2=A0 say like an &quot;M&quot; series BMW, which c=
ould not be easily copied, then I would consider them be very special.
<div dir=3D"auto">I understand that Mr Meade has now sold his &quot;M&quot;=
 so would not be surprised to see the &quot;Registry&quot; fade away.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Just my opinion.=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">M</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Fri., Dec. 15, 2023, 1:59 p.m. jos=
ef-eckert--- via Healeys, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" tar=
get=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<pre dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-=
size:12pt;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">What makes a 100M? Very g=
ood question and not easy to answer. In my opinion, an Austin-Healey 100M, =
especially as the price category is significantly higher than the normal 10=
0, is a car that any modification reduces its value. A heavily modified 100=
M is nothing special. It&#39;s a modified 100 and no longer an M. But this =
is my personal opinion. A new chassis would be such a major modification fo=
r me, as would a conversion to disc brakes at the front or a conversion to =
a Weber carburettors, etc. This would be simply no longer a Genuine 100M. I=
 would then rather buy an original Austin-Healey 100 for the same money. Bu=
t I have to admit, for me the hype surrounding the 100M is far exaggerated =
for what the car is. It&#39;s a special model with a little more horsepower=
, but not anything particularly special. Its like an Alpina BMW or a AMG Me=
rcedes. Josef Eckert Germany </span></pre><p style=3D"margin:0px"><span sty=
le=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;text-decoration=
:none">=C2=A0</span></p><p style=3D"margin:0px"><span style=3D"font-family:=
arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;text-decoration:none">=C2=A0</spa=
n></p><p style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p><p style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p><=
div style=3D"margin:0px">-----Original-Nachricht-----</div><div style=3D"ma=
rgin:0px">Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT</div><div style=3D"marg=
in:0px">Datum: 2023-12-15T18:07:16+0100</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">Von:=
 &quot;Bob Spidell&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D=
"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px">An: &quot;HealeyRick&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:healeyrik@=
gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;=
</div><p style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p><p style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p><=
p style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p>
<div style=3D"font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal=
;font-stretch:normal;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;font-family:Arial,He=
lvetica,sans-serif">Note the Registry will also certify &#39;Le Mans Conver=
sions,&#39; which may be what Kent&#39;s nasty is/was. Some have noted you =
can build a &#39;better M&#39; with aftermarket parts (Isky cam, alloy head=
, SBC, etc.). <br><br>I don&#39;t think either Kilmartin or Jules makes a 1=
00 chassis, but I&#39;d be somewhat more sympathetic to that, but not so mu=
ch hanging an M body and parts on a BN1 (a BN2, <em>maybe</em>). The main p=
roblem I see is an earnest owner may sell a conversion (aka &#39;counterfei=
t&#39;) with full disclosure, but an owner or two down the road the &#39;Tr=
ibute&#39; tag has been conveniently forgotten (I&#39;m not all in on &#39;=
tribute&#39; anything, be they cars or rock bands).<br><br><br>
<div>On 12/15/2023 7:17 AM, HealeyRick wrote:</div>
<blockquote>
<div dir=3D"ltr">This is all hypothesis based on speculation so take it wit=
h that caveat.=C2=A0 Let&#39;s say one had a rusty factory 100M that was so=
 bad it needed a new frame.=C2=A0 How hard would it be to transfer the 100M=
 body parts over to a solid BN1 chassis along with the oh-so-valuable chass=
is plate? The 100M Registry seems to focus mostly on the original body part=
s and cockpit surrounds to certify a car. Even cars with non-original engin=
es have been registered. I&#39;m pretty certain Kent Lacy&#39;s Nasty M was=
 on the registry. So is the BaT car still an M?=C2=A0 Some pretty valuable =
race cars have been crashed and fitted with=C2=A0new chassis and still brin=
g big money at auction.=C2=A0
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>To me, what makes an M an M is the motor.=C2=A0 If an M no longer has =
its original motor, or equal replacement, it has lost its character as an M=
. Otherwise, it&#39;s a BN2 with a louvered hood. It&#39;s almost like if a=
 Sunbeam Tiger blew its motor and it was replaced with an Alpine motor. Sur=
e, it&#39;s got the right serial number on the unibody, but it&#39;s not mu=
ch of a Tiger anymore. The BaT car with what appears to be non-original car=
bs and distributor caused me concern. Who would remove those from an origin=
al M motor? C&#39;mon 100M sellers, pop the valve cover, remove the rockers=
 and put a dial indicator on the pushrods so we can see if there is still a=
 100M cam in the lump!</div>
<div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>Happy Healeydays,</div>
<div>Rick Neville</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 1:05=E2=80=AF=
PM Bob Spidell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>Excellent report, thank you. <br><br>I was one of the commenters on Ba=
T--I joined BaT to comment--but, since I have a BN2/100M I&#39;m not famili=
ar with BN1 differences and could only point out obvious differences with m=
y car (which was completely original as far as I can tell, except for exten=
sive body work). One thing that was somewhat disturbing to me is that the R=
egistry certified this car, while noting some major anomalies (the carbs, f=
or instance, looked to be new and didn&#39;t have the hand scribing like my=
 car). <br><br>The other thing that interested me is, how do you value this=
 car? Yes, it&#39;s a very nice car, probably a good driver but, IMO, its v=
alue <em>should</em> be less than a comparably restored, original BN1 or BN=
2. And, what did the previous owner know, or should have known about this c=
ar? How do you present it for sale; as a BN1 with &#39;M bits?&#39; It woul=
d need the proverbial asterisk alongside the page title.<br><br>Bob<br><br>=
<br><br>
<div>On 12/14/2023 8:15 AM, S and T Miller wrote:</div>
<blockquote>
<div style=3D"font-family:inherit;font-size:inherit;color:inherit;backgroun=
d-color:transparent">
<div>If you were following it recently,=C2=A0 you might find my observation=
s interesting.=C2=A0 So I went down to Michael&#39;s motor cars to help him=
 determine if the 100m indeed has a BN1 chassis. Here is what I found.</div=
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
rer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys" rel=3D"noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys</a> <a href=3D"h=
ttp://autox.team.net/archive/healeys" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">=
http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys</a><br>
s/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.te=
am.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>

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[email-masked]

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From: richard mayor <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 16:06:12 -0800

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The fact that it=E2=80=99s a BN1 chassis (no flanges on the shocks =
tower) is certainly a red flag and I think that anyone who caught that =
discrepancy should feel obligated to inform prospective buyers.  If =
you=E2=80=99re gonna clone a 100M, at least do it on a BN2 chassis. =
Right? =20

Rick is spot on. =E2=80=9CIf a seller doesn=E2=80=99t want honest =
opinions, go offer it somewhere else=E2=80=A6.. =E2=80=9C. =20

Richard Mayor
[email-masked]

> On Dec 17, 2023, at 3:29 PM, HealeyRick <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> Craig,
>=20
> Ethical commenters on BaT need to walk a tightrope between helping =
bidders avoid a mistake or pooching a seller's sale. I won't comment on =
a sale of someone I know because I don't want to be accused of puffing =
their sale or OTOH submarining one that is being offered by a friend. If =
a seller doesn't want honest opinions, go offer it somewhere else and =
stay off BaT. Someone who benefitted from your advice should be =
thankful.  It's not supposed to be a cheerleading squad every time a =
person puts a car up for auction.
>=20
> Happy Healeydays,
> Rick Neville
>=20
> On Sun, Dec 17, 2023 at 3:52=E2=80=AFPM Craig Cooper =
>> Re: Recent 100 M on BaT
>>=20
>> Rick and Bob:  I did it.  I was the one who posted on BaT Nov.16 that =
there is a problem with the front shock towers and maybe half a dozen =
other issues that went unanswered.  Being incredulous at the number of =
issues on the bottom of the car, considering how glowingly it was being =
presented, I showed the pictures to my fellow Healey 100 obsessed =
neighbor who said "Aren't those BN1 shock towers?"  I had also recently =
watched the walk around video and simply couldn't contain myself.  Maybe =
it would have been better to just reach out to the seller, but I didn't =
think of that until just now.  Contrary to being savage, I think my =
remarks showed restraint.  There is a lot more there, and I didn't =
mention any of the top side problems.  (Bob, I laughed when I read your =
"ashtray delete" remark)  I think the open discussion of shortcomings of =
cars listed on BaT benefits both the buyer and the seller.  Imagine the =
embarrassment of a neophyte Healey 100 enthusiast having  paid top =
dollar for this car entering it in a concours ("would be welcome and do =
well in any concours") and having it judged to AH Club USA concours =
standards, or more likely declined to be judged.  Think he might seek =
legal remedy?  I wouldn't want to be the guy who sold it to him.
>>=20
>>  =20
>>=20
>> On Sun, Dec 17, 2023 at 11:01=E2=80=AFAM =
wrote:
>>>         [email-masked] =
>>>=20
>>>         [email-masked] =
>>>=20
>>>    3. Re: Recent 100M on BAT ([email-masked] =
>>> Cc:=20
>>> Bcc:=20
>>> > Regarding the 100M Registry, Lynn Martin and I volunteered to take =
over=20
>>> > the registry, but after several hours of discussion, the cost of =
doing=20
>>> > so came up and we decided that the price of admission was way too =
high=20
>>> > for something with little to no financial gain and a lot of work =
involved.
>>> From: Bob Spidell <[email-masked] =
>>> Cc: Michael Oritt <[email-masked] =
>>> Bcc:=20
>>> Last I heard, the owner was working with BaT to present another =
listing for this car (or did it sell?). If it's presented truthfully, as =
having a replacement chassis and possibly carbs and distributor I'd have =
no issues with it; it is, essentially, an 'M equivalent' with a (likely) =
reduced price. The commenters did a potential buyer a favor; if s/he =
knows what s/he got, and is happy with it, that's great.
>>>>      As I prepare to write this month's "Auction Report" for the =
Healey Marque this 100M discussion has been really helpful and =
interesting. I think your comment  " I was surprised Bill let the =
incorrect carbs and distributor slide "  raises a great question of what =
exactly is the 100M certificate certifying? Bill Meade has written an =
article on what needs to be presented to be certified.   =
https://www.100mregistry.com/PROTECTING_YOUR_100M_Feb_2013.pdf=C2=A0 =
<https://www.100mregistry.com/PROTECTING_YOUR_100M_Feb_2013.pdf>   But =
it seems to me it mainly focuses on the body parts that it left the =
factory with. I find it interesting there's no necessity for pictures of =
the engine number.  And even if all the body parts, carbs, and =
distributor aren't there, Bill says in the article  "If some of these =
items are missing, let the Registry know. It normally does not prevent =
registration provided enough ID points are present."  So my impression, =
which I'll try to verify with Bill, is the certification is focused on =
the question whether this is the car that left the factory that matches =
the BMIHT certificate saying it had a louvered hood and not so much on =
whether it still has all the original parts an M would have come with.
>>>>       I think one of the benefits of the BaT comments for buyers =
(and probably not so much for sellers) is pointing out major =
deficiencies with an offering. Some buyer might have paid way more this =
car than it would be worth if not for the "savage" comments.
>>>>=20
>>>> Happy Healeydays
>>>> Rick Neville
>>>>=20
>>>> On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 11:46=E2=80=AFAM Bob Spidell =
>>>>> I think that's indisputable (I unintentionally neglected to =
mention that aspect). That, and the fact the kits were selling made a =
case for selling the M (these days, that would take an army of marketing =
people to figure out, with lots of 'data' of course, and maybe some AI). =
Doesn't negate the strong showing of taking, IIRC, 3 cars off the =
lot--or was that the Bonneville cars?--hanging a few fancy bits on it =
and giving the bespoke Ferraris, Jags, Astons, Mercedeses etc. a run for =
their money (the Healeys' rugged simplicity likely helped). DMH was a =
brilliant marketer and salesman; he spotted the 'niche' hole between =
lower--performance MGs--we're talking TCs and TDs, not Bs and Cs--and =
higher-performance but much more expensive Jaguars and plugged it. =
History says he drove cross-county in the US to gauge the market; =
probably why he made overdrive an option from the get-go, for the =
wide-open US highways. I don't know Triumph history that well, was the =
TR2 a contemporary of the 100?
>>>>>=20
>>>>> How many times have you been asked what your Healey is =
worth--usually by a 'not-a-car-person'--and you've replied 'Whatever =
someone will pay me for it' (then, if the person seems genuinely =
interested I may give a run-down of the contemporary market; these days =
'not so good'). It's the same with other marques; witness the number of =
Chevelle SS 'tribute' cars going across the block at auctions. Genuine =
Ms can command a 50-100% premium over comparable 100s; hence the =
intensity of the interest and critique. Did you watch the BaT auction? =
It was pretty savage and enlightening, to me; I was surprised Bill let =
the incorrect carbs and distributor slide (maybe he was tired of doing =
the registry thing).=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> =46rom the late, great Gary Anderson:
>>>>>=20
>>>>> =
https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/The-He=
ritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf
>>>>>> Some feel that since DMH knew he was going to change over to a =
new car (the 100-6) he figured out a clever marketing ploy to get rid of =
what might otherwise have become a less-than-desirable inventory of late =
production 100's by outfitting some of the cars with the snazzy M =
upgrade.  If so it was probably never his intention nor in his =
comprehension to produce what has ironically become a very special =
Healey second only to the 100-S in collectibility.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Best--Michael Oritt
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 1:31=E2=80=AFAM Bob Spidell =
>>>>>>> The M was rated at 110HP--more if you got the optional branch =
extractor--as opposed to a stock BN2's 90HP. That's a 22% increase in =
power; I'd call that significant. Also, how do you 'hang' a camshaft and =
pistons on an engine (the mechanics were supposed to pull the engine, =
but if DMH and Geoff weren't around they'd cheat and do the mods in =
situ)?
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> I think at least part of the value of an M is that it made an =
appearance at the Healey factory, possibly with DMH and/or Geoff in =
attendance, as opposed to just coming off the Austin assembly line. =
Also, the modifications were, for the most part, the same as made to the =
cars that ran at LeMans in '52 ('53?) and came in 13th (or 14th) =
overall. When customers started asking for the same modifications DMH =
first sold a kit, then the complete car (anyone remember 'Race on =
Sunday, sell on Monday?').
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> I'd say the market has spoken, since genuine M cars command a =
significant price premium (hence why of the original, documented 640 =
cars only 3,000 remain).=20
>>>>>>>> I'm not an "M" guy really because as someone mentioned there =
isn't that much to hanging the "modification " parts on any 100.=20
>>>>>>>> If the "M" designation involved significant performance =
modifications,  say like an "M" series BMW, which could not be easily =
copied, then I would consider them be very special.
>>>>>>>> I understand that Mr Meade has now sold his "M" so would not be =
>>>>>>>> Just my opinion.=20
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> M
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> On Fri., Dec. 15, 2023, 1:59 p.m. josef-eckert--- via Healeys, =
>>>>>>>>> What makes a 100M?=20
>>>>>>>>> In my opinion, an Austin-Healey 100M, especially as the price =
category is significantly higher than the normal 100,=20
>>>>>>>>> is a car that any modification reduces its value. A heavily =
modified 100M is nothing special. It's a modified 100 and=20
>>>>>>>>> no longer an M. But this is my personal opinion. A new chassis =
would be such a major modification for me, as would a=20
>>>>>>>>> conversion to disc brakes at the front or a conversion to a =
Weber carburettors, etc. This would be simply no longer a=20
>>>>>>>>> Genuine 100M. I would then rather buy an original =
Austin-Healey 100 for the same money. But I have to admit, for me=20
>>>>>>>>> the hype surrounding the 100M is far exaggerated for what the =
car is. It's a special model with a little more=20
>>>>>>>>> horsepower, but not anything particularly special. Its like an =
Alpina BMW or a AMG Mercedes.
>>>>>>>>> Von: "Bob Spidell" <[email-masked] =
>>>>>>>>> An: "HealeyRick" <[email-masked] =
>>>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>>>> Note the Registry will also certify 'Le Mans Conversions,' =
which may be what Kent's nasty is/was. Some have noted you can build a =
'better M' with aftermarket parts (Isky cam, alloy head, SBC, etc.).=20
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>> I don't think either Kilmartin or Jules makes a 100 chassis, =
but I'd be somewhat more sympathetic to that, but not so much hanging an =
M body and parts on a BN1 (a BN2, maybe). The main problem I see is an =
earnest owner may sell a conversion (aka 'counterfeit') with full =
disclosure, but an owner or two down the road the 'Tribute' tag has been =
conveniently forgotten (I'm not all in on 'tribute' anything, be they =
cars or rock bands).
>>>>>>>>> This is all hypothesis based on speculation so take it with =
that caveat.  Let's say one had a rusty factory 100M that was so bad it =
needed a new frame.  How hard would it be to transfer the 100M body =
parts over to a solid BN1 chassis along with the oh-so-valuable chassis =
plate? The 100M Registry seems to focus mostly on the original body =
parts and cockpit surrounds to certify a car. Even cars with =
non-original engines have been registered. I'm pretty certain Kent =
Lacy's Nasty M was on the registry. So is the BaT car still an M?  Some =
pretty valuable race cars have been crashed and fitted with new chassis =
and still bring big money at auction.=20
>>>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>>>> To me, what makes an M an M is the motor.  If an M no longer =
has its original motor, or equal replacement, it has lost its character =
as an M. Otherwise, it's a BN2 with a louvered hood. It's almost like if =
a Sunbeam Tiger blew its motor and it was replaced with an Alpine motor. =
Sure, it's got the right serial number on the unibody, but it's not much =
of a Tiger anymore. The BaT car with what appears to be non-original =
carbs and distributor caused me concern. Who would remove those from an =
original M motor? C'mon 100M sellers, pop the valve cover, remove the =
rockers and put a dial indicator on the pushrods so we can see if there =
is still a 100M cam in the lump!
>>>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>>>> Happy Healeydays,
>>>>>>>>> Rick Neville
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 1:05=E2=80=AFPM Bob Spidell =
>>>>>>>>>> Excellent report, thank you.=20
>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>> I was one of the commenters on BaT--I joined BaT to =
comment--but, since I have a BN2/100M I'm not familiar with BN1 =
differences and could only point out obvious differences with my car =
(which was completely original as far as I can tell, except for =
extensive body work). One thing that was somewhat disturbing to me is =
that the Registry certified this car, while noting some major anomalies =
(the carbs, for instance, looked to be new and didn't have the hand =
scribing like my car).=20
>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>> The other thing that interested me is, how do you value this =
car? Yes, it's a very nice car, probably a good driver but, IMO, its =
value shouldbe less than a comparably restored, original BN1 or BN2. =
And, what did the previous owner know, or should have known about this =
car? How do you present it for sale; as a BN1 with 'M bits?' It would =
need the proverbial asterisk alongside the page title.
>>>>>>>>>> If you were following it recently,  you might find my =
observations interesting.  So I went down to Michael's motor cars to =
help him determine if the 100m indeed has a BN1 chassis. Here is what I =
found.
>>>>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>>>>> It has the BN1 inner fenders with the rolled pressings. It =
has the BN1 front brake hose frame mount the is less pronounced welded =
BN1 bracket, as the later cars have a bolted on bracket. The front shock =
towers have no evidence of being replaced and show the factory welds. =
The gearbox mount shows non-original/factory welds as if it were =
replaced to accommodate the BN2 mount.=20
>>>>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>>>>> What I found most interesting is that where a BN1 has two OD =
relays mounted under the dash, it took shining a light it different =
directions to just make out the slight evidence of filled holes (4 of =
then for the two relays). And I was able to reach inside the vent just =
below that area with my fingers and feel the welds and welding wire that =
was used to fill those 4 holes. I can tell you someone took great care =
to try and make those holes seem as they never existed.  Along with =
that, where a BN2 would have the single OD relay attached to the =
firewall with machine screws screwed into welded captive nuts on the =
firewall,  you can see plain sheet screws were used to mount it in what =
would be a BN2 relay position.=20
>>>>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>>>>> I also feel the engine tag is a repo because of the lighter =
stamping. Originals tend to have the numbers/ letters stamped with a =
deeper end result.  I took my repo engine tag along to compare, and they =
appeared identical in the stampings. The body/ bath tag and VIN plate =
appear original. Now that doesn't mean that the engine isn't the correct =
M engine, because there could be many reasons why the engine tag was =
replaced. Anyone who drove a stock 100 compared to a 100M can attest to =
the difference in power, and Mike stated that it indeed has that M =
power.=20
>>>>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>>>>> The boot lid shows no evidence of the stay bracket being =
swapped off another lid, and if you look closely you can see that the =
boot shows some previous age/life. I'd believe it to be original. I =
could not make out any evidence of the bonnet number being sliced in =
from a M bonnet, but I will say that the underside of the bonnet seemed =
suspiciously clean and prestine. I couldn't detect any age like the =
boot, but that would be for someone else to decide.=20
>>>>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>>>>> Mike had asked me if the cold air box was original,  and I =
simply don't have that experience to know. I have anyways heard if it =
looks old, it's original.  It does indeed look to have some age, so?
>>>>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>>>>> I feel at some point in this car's life someone went to some =
effort to try and conceal that these 100M parts were reinstalled on a =
BN1 chassis. Another interesting note is that there was an attempt to =
fill the holes where a BN1 chassis plate is fitted on the frame rail. =
Perhaps the person didn't realize that the holes continued over to the =
BN2's, and thought they were erasing evidence of a BN1 chassis?=20
>>>>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>>>>> With all that said, Mike is simply trying to represent the =
car correctly. The car is a very nice car! Paint is very nice, car is =
straight, and gaps look good. Interior is very nice, and looks to be a =
very good car all around. I didn't drive the car, but Mike has years of =
experience under his belt, so I'd trust his opinions on that. With the =
quality of the restoration,  it is surprising that the front frame to =
shroud brackets were not welded to the frame. Chrome looks good, and I'd =
think winning some trophies at a popular vote car would not be an issue.=20=

>>>>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>>>>> The Millers
>>>>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>>>>> "Always drive them, but remember each drive in an antique car =
is a test drive."
>>>>>>>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
>>>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
>>>>>>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
>>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
>>>>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
>>>>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
>>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
>>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
>>> Bcc:=20
>>> Your comments are the same in the USA especially in Florida where =
there are large numbers of retired people.  My good friend and President =
of our British Car Club Hermann Schuller formerly of Germany has said =
that younger people want Japanese or European sports cars.  It is the =
same for those who enjoy boating.  Sailors today are 55 to 80 years old. =
 I had to give away my 1967 28-foot sailboat in good condition at our =
summer home on Lake Michigan as younger boaters want speed and comfort.  =
I still have another younger 28-foot sailboat in Punta Gorda, Florida =
and will continue to sail in accordance with the agreement with my wife =
that I will not sail alone. =20
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> Also, our British Car Club of SW Florida is very large and growing =
thanks to the efforts of Hermann who revived the club.  He is a born =
salesman and a lover of old sports cars.
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> Regards,
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> Bob Begani
>>>=20
>>> 67 BJ8
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> From: Healeys <[email-masked] =
via Healeys
>>> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2023 1:15 PM
>>> To: Bob Spidell <[email-masked] =
>>> As far as I can see here in Europe, the market for Austin-Healeys =
and comparable vehicles from the 1950s has collapsed extremely. It's =
like the pre-war vehicles. They can no longer keep up with today's =
traffic and on motorways they are quite problematic due to the high =
traffic density and the many trucks that also recklessly swerve to =
overtake. A 100M and also a 100 are no longer in demand. The clientele =
that still knows Austin-Healey from her past is almost extinct. Hardly =
anyone has met Donald Healey here. I'm 66 years old now and didn't know =
him either. I saw Geoff once before he died, but we knew Margot quite =
well, having met through friends. But back to the 100M. Hardly anyone =
here knows the difference between a 100 with a LeMans kit and a 100M. =
All of these are then usually offered as 100 Le Mans. If a genuine 100M =
is actually offered, the price is slightly higher than for a comparable =
100, but not by a factor of 2. Nobody actually pays that here. There is =
also non who would pay 100K$ for a 100 or 100M. But as I said, =
Austin-Healeys are slow sellers and the 3000 BJ8 Ph2 is most in demand =
because it offers just enough comfort. But younger people don't want =
these old cars at all. They are looking for a BMW, Porsche or something =
else from the 70s or 80s that also offers more safety and comfort and =
that they know from their youth. Lower priced british cars like MG Bs =
are also out. They are too expensive compared to a Mazda MX-5, or Jaguar =
XK8 which are definitely the better cars compared.
>>> Btw.: The Austin-Healey clubs here have gotten pretty tired. The =
beautiful events like International healey Weekends that were offered 20 =
years ago are no longer offered in thre former glance for a long time. =
There are hardly any active people willing to do work for the clubs =
anymore. Those who do it are also a good 70 years old and what is then =
done is not really inviting. Many people now stay away from these events =
which are expensive, but not inviting.
>>> From: David Masucci <[email-masked] =
>>> Cc: Bob Spidell <[email-masked] =
>>> Bcc:=20
>>> All of this is inevitable, and not a  bad thing. Let=E2=80=99s just =
continue to enjoy what we can while we can. There will be other passions =
that will entice follow-on generations to enjoy memories from their =
youth.=20
>>>=20
>>> Dave
>>>=20
>>>> On Dec 16, 2023, at 1:14 PM, josef-eckert--- via Healeys =
>>>>=20
>>>> As far as I can see here in Europe, the market for Austin-Healeys =
and comparable vehicles from the 1950s has collapsed extremely. It's =
like the pre-war vehicles. They can no longer keep up with today's =
traffic and on motorways they are quite problematic due to the high =
traffic density and the many trucks that also recklessly swerve to =
overtake. A 100M and also a 100 are no longer in demand. The clientele =
that still knows Austin-Healey from her past is almost extinct. Hardly =
anyone has met Donald Healey here. I'm 66 years old now and didn't know =
him either. I saw Geoff once before he died, but we knew Margot quite =
well, having met through friends. But back to the 100M. Hardly anyone =
here knows the difference between a 100 with a LeMans kit and a 100M. =
All of these are then usually offered as 100 Le Mans. If a genuine 100M =
is actually offered, the price is slightly higher than for a comparable =
100, but not by a factor of 2. Nobody actually pays that here. There is =
also non who would pay 100K$ for a 100 or 100M. But as I said, =
Austin-Healeys are slow sellers and the 3000 BJ8 Ph2 is most in demand =
because it offers just enough comfort. But younger people don't want =
these old cars at all. They are looking for a BMW, Porsche or something =
else from the 70s or 80s that also offers more safety and comfort and =
that they know from their youth. Lower priced british cars like MG Bs =
are also out. They are too expensive compared to a Mazda MX-5, or Jaguar =
XK8 which are definitely the better cars compared.
>>>> Btw.: The Austin-Healey clubs here have gotten pretty tired. The =
beautiful events like International healey Weekends that were offered 20 =
years ago are no longer offered in thre former glance for a long time. =
There are hardly any active people willing to do work for the clubs =
anymore. Those who do it are also a good 70 years old and what is then =
done is not really inviting. Many people now stay away from these events =
which are expensive, but not inviting.
>>>> Von: "Bob Spidell" <[email-masked] =
>>>> An: "Michael Oritt" <[email-masked] =
>>>> =20
>>>> =20
>>>> =20
>>>> I think that's indisputable (I unintentionally neglected to mention =
that aspect). That, and the fact the kits were selling made a case for =
selling the M (these days, that would take an army of marketing people =
to figure out, with lots of 'data' of course, and maybe some AI). =
Doesn't negate the strong showing of taking, IIRC, 3 cars off the =
lot--or was that the Bonneville cars?--hanging a few fancy bits on it =
and giving the bespoke Ferraris, Jags, Astons, Mercedeses etc. a run for =
their money (the Healeys' rugged simplicity likely helped). DMH was a =
brilliant marketer and salesman; he spotted the 'niche' hole between =
lower--performance MGs--we're talking TCs and TDs, not Bs and Cs--and =
higher-performance but much more expensive Jaguars and plugged it. =
History says he drove cross-county in the US to gauge the market; =
probably why he made overdrive an option from the get-go, for the =
wide-open US highways. I don't know Triumph history that well, was the =
TR2 a contemporary of the 100?
>>>>=20
>>>> How many times have you been asked what your Healey is =
worth--usually by a 'not-a-car-person'--and you've replied 'Whatever =
someone will pay me for it' (then, if the person seems genuinely =
interested I may give a run-down of the contemporary market; these days =
'not so good'). It's the same with other marques; witness the number of =
Chevelle SS 'tribute' cars going across the block at auctions. Genuine =
Ms can command a 50-100% premium over comparable 100s; hence the =
intensity of the interest and critique. Did you watch the BaT auction? =
It was pretty savage and enlightening, to me; I was surprised Bill let =
the incorrect carbs and distributor slide (maybe he was tired of doing =
the registry thing).=20
>>>>=20
>>>> =46rom the late, great Gary Anderson:
>>>>=20
>>>> =
https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/The-He=
ritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf
>>>> Some feel that since DMH knew he was going to change over to a new =
car (the 100-6) he figured out a clever marketing ploy to get rid of =
what might otherwise have become a less-than-desirable inventory of late =
production 100's by outfitting some of the cars with the snazzy M =
upgrade.  If so it was probably never his intention nor in his =
comprehension to produce what has ironically become a very special =
Healey second only to the 100-S in collectibility.
>>>> =20
>>>> Best--Michael Oritt
>>>>=20
>>>> On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 1:31=E2=80=AFAM Bob Spidell =
>>>>> The M was rated at 110HP--more if you got the optional branch =
extractor--as opposed to a stock BN2's 90HP. That's a 22% increase in =
power; I'd call that significant. Also, how do you 'hang' a camshaft and =
pistons on an engine (the mechanics were supposed to pull the engine, =
but if DMH and Geoff weren't around they'd cheat and do the mods in =
situ)?
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I think at least part of the value of an M is that it made an =
appearance at the Healey factory, possibly with DMH and/or Geoff in =
attendance, as opposed to just coming off the Austin assembly line. =
Also, the modifications were, for the most part, the same as made to the =
cars that ran at LeMans in '52 ('53?) and came in 13th (or 14th) =
overall. When customers started asking for the same modifications DMH =
first sold a kit, then the complete car (anyone remember 'Race on =
Sunday, sell on Monday?').
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I'd say the market has spoken, since genuine M cars command a =
significant price premium (hence why of the original, documented 640 =
cars only 3,000 remain).=20
>>>>> I'm not an "M" guy really because as someone mentioned there isn't =
that much to hanging the "modification " parts on any 100.=20
>>>>> If the "M" designation involved significant performance =
modifications,  say like an "M" series BMW, which could not be easily =
copied, then I would consider them be very special.
>>>>> I understand that Mr Meade has now sold his "M" so would not be =
>>>>> Just my opinion.=20
>>>>> =20
>>>>> M
>>>>>=20
>>>>> On Fri., Dec. 15, 2023, 1:59 p.m. josef-eckert--- via Healeys, =
>>>>>> What makes a 100M? Very good question and not easy to answer. In =
my opinion, an Austin-Healey 100M, especially as the price category is =
significantly higher than the normal 100, is a car that any modification =
reduces its value. A heavily modified 100M is nothing special. It's a =
modified 100 and no longer an M. But this is my personal opinion. A new =
chassis would be such a major modification for me, as would a conversion =
to disc brakes at the front or a conversion to a Weber carburettors, =
etc. This would be simply no longer a Genuine 100M. I would then rather =
buy an original Austin-Healey 100 for the same money. But I have to =
admit, for me the hype surrounding the 100M is far exaggerated for what =
the car is. It's a special model with a little more horsepower, but not =
anything particularly special. Its like an Alpina BMW or a AMG Mercedes. =
Josef Eckert Germany=20
>>>>>> Von: "Bob Spidell" <[email-masked] =
>>>>>> An: "HealeyRick" <[email-masked] =
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> Note the Registry will also certify 'Le Mans Conversions,' which =
may be what Kent's nasty is/was. Some have noted you can build a 'better =
M' with aftermarket parts (Isky cam, alloy head, SBC, etc.).=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> I don't think either Kilmartin or Jules makes a 100 chassis, but =
I'd be somewhat more sympathetic to that, but not so much hanging an M =
body and parts on a BN1 (a BN2, maybe). The main problem I see is an =
earnest owner may sell a conversion (aka 'counterfeit') with full =
disclosure, but an owner or two down the road the 'Tribute' tag has been =
conveniently forgotten (I'm not all in on 'tribute' anything, be they =
cars or rock bands).
>>>>>> This is all hypothesis based on speculation so take it with that =
caveat.  Let's say one had a rusty factory 100M that was so bad it =
needed a new frame.  How hard would it be to transfer the 100M body =
parts over to a solid BN1 chassis along with the oh-so-valuable chassis =
plate? The 100M Registry seems to focus mostly on the original body =
parts and cockpit surrounds to certify a car. Even cars with =
non-original engines have been registered. I'm pretty certain Kent =
Lacy's Nasty M was on the registry. So is the BaT car still an M?  Some =
pretty valuable race cars have been crashed and fitted with new chassis =
and still bring big money at auction.=20
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> To me, what makes an M an M is the motor.  If an M no longer has =
its original motor, or equal replacement, it has lost its character as =
an M. Otherwise, it's a BN2 with a louvered hood. It's almost like if a =
Sunbeam Tiger blew its motor and it was replaced with an Alpine motor. =
Sure, it's got the right serial number on the unibody, but it's not much =
of a Tiger anymore. The BaT car with what appears to be non-original =
carbs and distributor caused me concern. Who would remove those from an =
original M motor? C'mon 100M sellers, pop the valve cover, remove the =
rockers and put a dial indicator on the pushrods so we can see if there =
is still a 100M cam in the lump!
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>> Happy Healeydays,
>>>>>> Rick Neville
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 1:05=E2=80=AFPM Bob Spidell =
>>>>>>> Excellent report, thank you.=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> I was one of the commenters on BaT--I joined BaT to =
comment--but, since I have a BN2/100M I'm not familiar with BN1 =
differences and could only point out obvious differences with my car =
(which was completely original as far as I can tell, except for =
extensive body work). One thing that was somewhat disturbing to me is =
that the Registry certified this car, while noting some major anomalies =
(the carbs, for instance, looked to be new and didn't have the hand =
scribing like my car).=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> The other thing that interested me is, how do you value this =
car? Yes, it's a very nice car, probably a good driver but, IMO, its =
value should be less than a comparably restored, original BN1 or BN2. =
And, what did the previous owner know, or should have known about this =
car? How do you present it for sale; as a BN1 with 'M bits?' It would =
need the proverbial asterisk alongside the page title.
>>>>>>> If you were following it recently,  you might find my =
observations interesting.  So I went down to Michael's motor cars to =
help him determine if the 100m indeed has a BN1 chassis. Here is what I =
found.
>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>> It has the BN1 inner fenders with the rolled pressings. It has =
the BN1 front brake hose frame mount the is less pronounced welded BN1 =
bracket, as the later cars have a bolted on bracket. The front shock =
towers have no evidence of being replaced and show the factory welds. =
The gearbox mount shows non-original/factory welds as if it were =
replaced to accommodate the BN2 mount.=20
>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>> What I found most interesting is that where a BN1 has two OD =
relays mounted under the dash, it took shining a light it different =
directions to just make out the slight evidence of filled holes (4 of =
then for the two relays). And I was able to reach inside the vent just =
below that area with my fingers and feel the welds and welding wire that =
was used to fill those 4 holes. I can tell you someone took great care =
to try and make those holes seem as they never existed.  Along with =
that, where a BN2 would have the single OD relay attached to the =
firewall with machine screws screwed into welded captive nuts on the =
firewall,  you can see plain sheet screws were used to mount it in what =
would be a BN2 relay position.=20
>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>> I also feel the engine tag is a repo because of the lighter =
stamping. Originals tend to have the numbers/ letters stamped with a =
deeper end result.  I took my repo engine tag along to compare, and they =
appeared identical in the stampings. The body/ bath tag and VIN plate =
appear original. Now that doesn't mean that the engine isn't the correct =
M engine, because there could be many reasons why the engine tag was =
replaced. Anyone who drove a stock 100 compared to a 100M can attest to =
the difference in power, and Mike stated that it indeed has that M =
power.=20
>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>> The boot lid shows no evidence of the stay bracket being swapped =
off another lid, and if you look closely you can see that the boot shows =
some previous age/life. I'd believe it to be original. I could not make =
out any evidence of the bonnet number being sliced in from a M bonnet, =
but I will say that the underside of the bonnet seemed suspiciously =
clean and prestine. I couldn't detect any age like the boot, but that =
would be for someone else to decide.=20
>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>> Mike had asked me if the cold air box was original,  and I =
simply don't have that experience to know. I have anyways heard if it =
looks old, it's original.  It does indeed look to have some age, so?
>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>> I feel at some point in this car's life someone went to some =
effort to try and conceal that these 100M parts were reinstalled on a =
BN1 chassis. Another interesting note is that there was an attempt to =
fill the holes where a BN1 chassis plate is fitted on the frame rail. =
Perhaps the person didn't realize that the holes continued over to the =
BN2's, and thought they were erasing evidence of a BN1 chassis?=20
>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>> With all that said, Mike is simply trying to represent the car =
correctly. The car is a very nice car! Paint is very nice, car is =
straight, and gaps look good. Interior is very nice, and looks to be a =
very good car all around. I didn't drive the car, but Mike has years of =
experience under his belt, so I'd trust his opinions on that. With the =
quality of the restoration,  it is surprising that the front frame to =
shroud brackets were not welded to the frame. Chrome looks good, and I'd =
think winning some trophies at a popular vote car would not be an issue.=20=

>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>> The Millers
>>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>> "Always drive them, but remember each drive in an antique car is =
a test drive."
>>>>>>> Support Team.Net <http://team.net/> =
>>>>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
>>>>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
>>>>>> Support Team.Net <http://team.net/> =
>>>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
>>>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
>>>>> Support Team.Net <http://team.net/> =
>>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
>>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
>>>> Support Team.Net <http://team.net/> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
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>> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
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http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]

--Apple-Mail=_B7CF482C-98D4-4CB2-8C63-42C117595F5C
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">The fact that =
it=E2=80=99s a BN1 chassis (no flanges on the shocks tower) is certainly =
a red flag and I think that anyone who caught that discrepancy should =
feel obligated to inform prospective buyers. &nbsp;If you=E2=80=99re =
gonna clone a 100M, at least do it on a BN2 chassis. Right? =
&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>Rick is spot on. =E2=80=9CIf a seller =
doesn=E2=80=99t want honest opinions, go offer it somewhere else=E2=80=A6.=
. =E2=80=9C. &nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><div>
<div>Richard =
Mayor</div><div>[email-masked]</div><div><br></div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">

</div>
<div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On Dec 17, 2023, at 3:29 PM, =
HealeyRick &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div><meta charset=3D"UTF-8"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;">Craig,<div><br></div><div>Ethical commenters on BaT need to walk =
a tightrope between helping bidders avoid a mistake or pooching a =
seller's sale. I won't comment on a sale of someone I know because I =
don't want to be accused of puffing their sale or OTOH submarining one =
that is being offered by a friend. If a seller doesn't want honest =
opinions, go offer it somewhere else and stay off BaT. Someone who =
benefitted from your advice should be thankful.&nbsp; It's not supposed =
to be a cheerleading squad every time&nbsp;a person puts a car up for =
auction.</div><div><br></div><div>Happy Healeydays,</div><div>Rick =
Neville</div></div><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;"><div class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, =
Dec 17, 2023 at 3:52=E2=80=AFPM Craig Cooper &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; =
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div =
dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size: large;">Re: =
Recent 100 M on BaT</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size: =
large;"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size: =
large;">Rick and Bob:&nbsp; I did it.&nbsp; I was the one who posted on =
BaT Nov.16 that there is a problem with the front shock towers and maybe =
half a dozen other issues that went unanswered.&nbsp; Being incredulous =
at the number of issues on the bottom of the car, considering how =
glowingly it was being presented, I showed the pictures to my fellow =
Healey 100 obsessed neighbor who said "Aren't those BN1 shock =
towers?"&nbsp; I had also recently watched the walk around video and =
simply couldn't contain myself.&nbsp; Maybe it would have been better to =
just reach out to the seller, but I didn't think of that until just =
now.&nbsp; Contrary to being savage, I think my remarks showed =
restraint.&nbsp; There is a lot more there, and I didn't mention any of =
the top side problems.&nbsp; (Bob, I laughed&nbsp;when I read your =
"ashtray delete" remark)&nbsp; I think the open discussion of =
shortcomings of cars listed on BaT benefits both the buyer and the =
seller.&nbsp; Imagine the embarrassment&nbsp;of a neophyte Healey 100 =
enthusiast having&nbsp; paid top dollar for this car entering it in a =
concours ("would be welcome and do well in any concours") and having it =
judged to AH Club USA concours standards, or more likely declined to be =
judged.&nbsp; Think he might seek legal remedy?&nbsp; I wouldn't want to =
be the guy who sold it to him.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-size: large;"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-size: large;">&nbsp;&nbsp;</div></div><br><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Dec =
17, 2023 at 11:01=E2=80=AFAM &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; =
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div>Send =
Healeys mailing list submissions to<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br><br>To subscribe or =
unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys" rel=3D"noreferrer"=
 =
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a><br>or=
, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br><br>You can =
reach the person managing the list at<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br><br>When replying, =
please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>than "Re: =
Contents of Healeys digest..."<br>Today's Topics:<br><br>&nbsp; &nbsp;1. =
Re: Recent 100M on BAT (Mark Bradakis)<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;2. Re: Recent =
100M on BAT (Bob Spidell)<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;3. Re: Recent 100M on BAT (<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>)<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;4. Re: Recent =
100M on BAT (David Masucci)<br><br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message =
----------<br>From:&nbsp;Mark Bradakis &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>To:&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br>Cc:&nbsp;<br>Bcc:&nbsp;<br=
>Date:&nbsp;Sat, 16 Dec 2023 13:56:44 -0700<br>Subject:&nbsp;Re: =
[Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT<br>On 12/16/23 9:55 AM, Curtis Arndt via =
Healeys wrote:<br>&gt; Regarding the 100M Registry, Lynn Martin and I =
volunteered to take over<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>&gt; the registry, but =
after several hours of discussion, the cost of doing<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>&gt; so came up and we =
decided that the price of admission was way too high<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>&gt; for something with =
little to no financial gain and a lot of work involved.<br><br>Try =
running Team Net for 30+ =
years!<br><br>mjb.<br><br><br><br><br><br><br>---------- Forwarded =
message ----------<br>From:&nbsp;Bob Spidell &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>To:&nbsp;HealeyRick =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>Cc:&nbsp;Michael Oritt =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;, "<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>" &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>Bcc:&nbsp;<br>Date:&nb=
sp;Sat, 16 Dec 2023 16:43:03 -0800<br>Subject:&nbsp;Re: [Healeys] Recent =
100M on BAT<br><u></u><div>Rick,<br><br>Last I heard, the owner was =
working with BaT to present another listing for this car (or did it =
sell?). If it's presented truthfully, as having a replacement chassis =
and possibly carbs and distributor I'd have no issues with it; it is, =
essentially, an 'M equivalent' with a (likely) reduced price. The =
commenters did a potential buyer a favor; if s/he knows what s/he got, =
and is happy with it, that's great.<br><br>Bob<br><br><br><div>On =
12/16/2023 9:31 AM, HealeyRick wrote:<br></div><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">Bob,<div><br></div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;As I prepare to write this month's "Auction Report" for the<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><i>Healey Marque<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></i>this 100M discussion =
has been really helpful and interesting. I think your comment&nbsp; " I =
was surprised Bill let the incorrect carbs and distributor slide "&nbsp; =
raises a great question of what exactly is the 100M certificate =
certifying? Bill Meade has written an article on what needs to be =
presented to be certified.&nbsp; &nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://www.100mregistry.com/PROTECTING_YOUR_100M_Feb_2013.pdf" =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.100mregistry.com/PROTECTING_YOUR_100M_Feb_20=
13.pdf&nbsp;</a>&nbsp; &nbsp;But it seems to me it mainly focuses on the =
body parts that it left the factory with. I find it interesting there's =
no necessity for pictures of the engine number.&nbsp; And even if all =
the body parts, carbs, and distributor aren't there, Bill says in the =
article&nbsp; "If some of these items are missing, let the Registry =
know. It normally does not prevent registration provided enough ID =
points are present."&nbsp; So my impression, which I'll try to verify =
with Bill, is the certification is focused on the question whether this =
is the car that left the factory that matches the BMIHT certificate =
saying it had a louvered hood and not so much on whether it still has =
all the original parts an M would have come with.</div><div>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>I think =
one of the benefits of the BaT comments for buyers (and probably not so =
much for sellers) is pointing out major deficiencies with an offering. =
Some buyer might have paid way more this car than it would be worth if =
not for the "savage" comments.</div><div><br></div><div>Happy =
Healeydays</div><div>Rick Neville</div></div><br><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Dec =
16, 2023 at 11:46=E2=80=AFAM Bob Spidell &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; =
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div>I think =
that's indisputable (I unintentionally neglected to mention that =
aspect). That, and the fact the kits were selling made a case for =
selling the M (these days, that would take an army of marketing people =
to figure out, with lots of 'data' of course, and maybe some AI). =
Doesn't negate the strong showing of taking, IIRC, 3 cars off the =
lot--or was that the Bonneville cars?--hanging a few fancy bits on it =
and giving the bespoke Ferraris, Jags, Astons, Mercedeses etc. a run for =
their money (the Healeys' rugged simplicity likely helped). DMH was a =
brilliant marketer and salesman; he spotted the 'niche' hole between =
lower--performance MGs--we're talking TCs and TDs, not Bs and Cs--and =
higher-performance but much more expensive Jaguars and plugged it. =
History says he drove cross-county in the US to gauge the market; =
probably why he made overdrive an option from the get-go, for the =
wide-open US highways. I don't know Triumph history that well, was the =
TR2 a contemporary of the 100?<br><br>How many times have you been asked =
what your Healey is worth--usually by a 'not-a-car-person'--and you've =
replied 'Whatever someone will pay me for it' (then, if the person seems =
genuinely interested I may give a run-down of the contemporary market; =
these days 'not so good'). It's the same with other marques; witness the =
number of Chevelle SS 'tribute' cars going across the block at auctions. =
Genuine Ms can command a 50-100% premium over comparable 100s; hence the =
intensity of the interest and critique. Did you watch the BaT auction? =
It was pretty savage and enlightening, to me; I was surprised Bill let =
the incorrect carbs and distributor slide (maybe he was tired of doing =
the registry thing).<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><br>=46rom the late, =
great Gary Anderson:<br><br><a =
href=3D"https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/0=
3/The-Heritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf" =
target=3D"_blank">https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uplo=
ads/2019/03/The-Heritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf</a><br><br><br><div>O=
n 12/16/2023 6:46 AM, Michael Oritt wrote:<br></div><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">Some feel that since DMH knew he was =
going to change over to a new car (the 100-6) he figured out a clever =
marketing&nbsp;ploy to get rid of what might otherwise have become a =
less-than-desirable&nbsp;inventory of late production 100's by =
outfitting some of the cars with the snazzy M upgrade.&nbsp; If so it =
was probably never his intention nor in his comprehension to =
produce&nbsp;what has ironically become a very special Healey second =
only to the 100-S in collectibility.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 255);"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">Best--Michael =
Oritt</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 1:31=E2=80=AFAM Bob Spidell =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; =
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div>The M =
was rated at 110HP--more if you got the optional branch extractor--as =
opposed to a stock BN2's 90HP. That's a 22% increase in power; I'd call =
that significant. Also, how do you 'hang' a camshaft and pistons on an =
engine (the mechanics were supposed to pull the engine, but if DMH and =
Geoff weren't around they'd cheat and do the mods in situ)?<br><br>I =
think at least part of the value of an M is that it made an appearance =
at the Healey factory, possibly with DMH and/or Geoff in attendance, as =
opposed to just coming off the Austin assembly line. Also, the =
modifications were, for the most part, the same as made to the cars that =
ran at LeMans in '52 ('53?) and came in 13th (or 14th) overall. When =
customers started asking for the same modifications DMH first sold a =
kit, then the complete car (anyone remember 'Race on Sunday, sell on =
Monday?').<br><br>I'd say the market has spoken, since genuine M cars =
command a significant price premium (hence why of the original, =
documented 640 cars only 3,000 remain).<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><br>bs<br><br><br><div>On=
 12/15/2023 2:16 PM, Michael Salter wrote:<br></div><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"auto">I'm not an "M" guy really because as =
someone mentioned there isn't that much to hanging the "modification " =
parts on any 100.&nbsp;<div dir=3D"auto">If the "M" designation involved =
significant performance modifications,&nbsp; say like an "M" series BMW, =
which could not be easily copied, then I would consider them be very =
special.<div dir=3D"auto">I understand that Mr Meade has now sold his =
"M" so would not be surprised to see the "Registry" fade away.</div><div =
dir=3D"auto">Just my opinion.&nbsp;</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div =
dir=3D"auto">M</div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri., Dec. 15, 2023, 1:59 p.m. =
josef-eckert--- via Healeys, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
 target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; =
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div><pre =
id=3D"m_-4437042785009811673m_3035444886437018827m_1603492253125454553m_-4=
413793566936237617m_-8948067483587624533tw-target-text" dir=3D"ltr" =
style=3D"text-align: left;"><span lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">What makes a 100M?=20
Very good question and not easy to answer.

In my opinion, an Austin-Healey 100M, especially as the price category =
is significantly higher than the normal 100,=20
is a car that any modification reduces its value. A heavily modified =
100M is nothing special. It's a modified 100 and=20
no longer an M. But this is my personal opinion. A new chassis would be =
such a major modification for me, as would a=20
conversion to disc brakes at the front or a conversion to a Weber =
carburettors, etc. This would be simply no longer a=20
Genuine 100M. I would then rather buy an original Austin-Healey 100 for =
the same money. But I have to admit, for me=20
the hype surrounding the 100M is far exaggerated for what the car is. =
It's a special model with a little more=20
horsepower, but not anything particularly special. Its like an Alpina =
BMW or a AMG Mercedes.

Josef Eckert
Germany
</span></pre><p style=3D"margin: 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family: =
arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: =
none;">&nbsp;</span></p><p style=3D"margin: 0px;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; =
text-decoration: none;">&nbsp;</span></p><p style=3D"margin: =
0px;">&nbsp;</p><p style=3D"margin: 0px;">&nbsp;</p><div style=3D"margin: =
0px;">-----Original-Nachricht-----</div><div style=3D"margin: =
0px;">Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT</div><div style=3D"margin:=
 0px;">Datum: 2023-12-15T18:07:16+0100</div><div style=3D"margin: =
0px;">Von: "Bob Spidell" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</div><div style=3D"margin: =
0px;">An: "HealeyRick" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</div><p =
style=3D"margin: 0px;">&nbsp;</p><p style=3D"margin: 0px;">&nbsp;</p><p =
style=3D"margin: 0px;">&nbsp;</p><div style=3D"font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; =
font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, =
sans-serif; font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; =
font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; =
font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; =
font-variant-position: normal; font-feature-settings: normal; =
font-optical-sizing: auto; font-variation-settings: normal;">Note the =
Registry will also certify 'Le Mans Conversions,' which may be what =
Kent's nasty is/was. Some have noted you can build a 'better M' with =
aftermarket parts (Isky cam, alloy head, SBC, etc.).<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><br>I don't think =
either Kilmartin or Jules makes a 100 chassis, but I'd be somewhat more =
sympathetic to that, but not so much hanging an M body and parts on a =
BN1 (a BN2,<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><em>maybe</em>). The main =
problem I see is an earnest owner may sell a conversion (aka =
'counterfeit') with full disclosure, but an owner or two down the road =
the 'Tribute' tag has been conveniently forgotten (I'm not all in on =
'tribute' anything, be they cars or rock bands).<br><br><br><div>On =
12/15/2023 7:17 AM, HealeyRick wrote:</div><blockquote><div =
dir=3D"ltr">This is all hypothesis based on speculation so take it with =
that caveat.&nbsp; Let's say one had a rusty factory 100M that was so =
bad it needed a new frame.&nbsp; How hard would it be to transfer the =
100M body parts over to a solid BN1 chassis along with the =
oh-so-valuable chassis plate? The 100M Registry seems to focus mostly on =
the original body parts and cockpit surrounds to certify a car. Even =
cars with non-original engines have been registered. I'm pretty certain =
Kent Lacy's Nasty M was on the registry. So is the BaT car still an =
M?&nbsp; Some pretty valuable race cars have been crashed and fitted =
with&nbsp;new chassis and still bring big money at =
auction.&nbsp;<div>&nbsp;</div><div>To me, what makes an M an M is the =
motor.&nbsp; If an M no longer has its original motor, or equal =
replacement, it has lost its character as an M. Otherwise, it's a BN2 =
with a louvered hood. It's almost like if a Sunbeam Tiger blew its motor =
and it was replaced with an Alpine motor. Sure, it's got the right =
serial number on the unibody, but it's not much of a Tiger anymore. The =
BaT car with what appears to be non-original carbs and distributor =
caused me concern. Who would remove those from an original M motor? =
C'mon 100M sellers, pop the valve cover, remove the rockers and put a =
dial indicator on the pushrods so we can see if there is still a 100M =
cam in the lump!</div><div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Happy =
Healeydays,</div><div>Rick Neville</div></div></div><br><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, Dec =
14, 2023 at 1:05=E2=80=AFPM Bob Spidell &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; =
border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: =
rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div>Excellent report, thank =
you.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><br>I was one =
of the commenters on BaT--I joined BaT to comment--but, since I have a =
BN2/100M I'm not familiar with BN1 differences and could only point out =
obvious differences with my car (which was completely original as far as =
I can tell, except for extensive body work). One thing that was somewhat =
disturbing to me is that the Registry certified this car, while noting =
some major anomalies (the carbs, for instance, looked to be new and =
didn't have the hand scribing like my car).<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><br>The other thing =
that interested me is, how do you value this car? Yes, it's a very nice =
car, probably a good driver but, IMO, its value<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><em>should</em>be less than =
a comparably restored, original BN1 or BN2. And, what did the previous =
owner know, or should have known about this car? How do you present it =
for sale; as a BN1 with 'M bits?' It would need the proverbial asterisk =
alongside the page title.<br><br>Bob<br><br><br><br><div>On 12/14/2023 =
8:15 AM, S and T Miller wrote:</div><blockquote><div style=3D"font-family:=
 inherit; font-size: inherit; color: inherit; background-color: =
transparent;"><div>If you were following it recently,&nbsp; you might =
find my observations interesting.&nbsp; So I went down to Michael's =
motor cars to help him determine if the 100m indeed has a BN1 chassis. =
Here is what I found.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>It has the BN1 inner =
fenders with the rolled pressings. It has the BN1 front brake hose frame =
mount the is less pronounced welded BN1 bracket, as the later cars have =
a bolted on bracket. The front shock towers have no evidence of being =
replaced and show the factory welds. The gearbox mount shows =
non-original/factory welds as if it were replaced to accommodate the BN2 =
mount.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>What I found most interesting is =
that where a BN1 has two OD relays mounted under the dash, it took =
shining a light it different directions to just make out the slight =
evidence of filled holes (4 of then for the two relays). And I was able =
to reach inside the vent just below that area with my fingers and feel =
the welds and welding wire that was used to fill those 4 holes. I can =
tell you someone took great care to try and make those holes seem as =
they never existed.&nbsp; Along with that, where a BN2 would have the =
single OD relay attached to the firewall with machine screws screwed =
into welded captive nuts on the firewall,&nbsp; you can see plain sheet =
screws were used to mount it in what would be a BN2 relay =
position.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>I also feel the engine tag is =
a repo because of the lighter stamping. Originals tend to have the =
numbers/ letters stamped with a deeper end result.&nbsp; I took my repo =
engine tag along to compare, and they appeared identical in the =
stampings. The body/ bath tag and VIN plate appear original. Now that =
doesn't mean that the engine isn't the correct M engine, because there =
could be many reasons why the engine tag was replaced. Anyone who drove =
a stock 100 compared to a 100M can attest to the difference in power, =
and Mike stated that it indeed has that M =
power.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>The boot lid shows no evidence =
of the stay bracket being swapped off another lid, and if you look =
closely you can see that the boot shows some previous age/life. I'd =
believe it to be original. I could not make out any evidence of the =
bonnet number being sliced in from a M bonnet, but I will say that the =
underside of the bonnet seemed suspiciously clean and prestine. I =
couldn't detect any age like the boot, but that would be for someone =
else to decide.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Mike had asked me if =
the cold air box was original,&nbsp; and I simply don't have that =
experience to know. I have anyways heard if it looks old, it's =
original.&nbsp; It does indeed look to have some age, =
so?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>I feel at some point in this car's life =
someone went to some effort to try and conceal that these 100M parts =
were reinstalled on a BN1 chassis. Another interesting note is that =
there was an attempt to fill the holes where a BN1 chassis plate is =
fitted on the frame rail. Perhaps the person didn't realize that the =
holes continued over to the BN2's, and thought they were erasing =
evidence of a BN1 chassis?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>With all =
that said, Mike is simply trying to represent the car correctly. The car =
is a very nice car! Paint is very nice, car is straight, and gaps look =
good. Interior is very nice, and looks to be a very good car all around. =
I didn't drive the car, but Mike has years of experience under his belt, =
so I'd trust his opinions on that. With the quality of the =
restoration,&nbsp; it is surprising that the front frame to shroud =
brackets were not welded to the frame. Chrome looks good, and I'd think =
winning some trophies at a popular vote car would not be an =
issue.&nbsp;</div></div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>The =
Millers<br>&nbsp;<br>"Always drive them, but remember each drive in an =
antique car is a test =
drive."</div></blockquote></div>__________________________________________=
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>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From:&nbsp;&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>To:&nbsp;&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>Cc:&nbsp;&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>Bcc:&nbsp;<br>Date:&nb=
sp;Sun, 17 Dec 2023 05:06:32 -0500<br>Subject:&nbsp;Re: [Healeys] Recent =
100M on BAT<br><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Dear =
Josef:<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Your comments =
are the same in the USA especially in Florida where there are large =
numbers of retired people.&nbsp; My good friend and President of our =
British Car Club Hermann Schuller formerly of Germany has said that =
younger people want Japanese or European sports cars.&nbsp; It is the =
same for those who enjoy boating.&nbsp; Sailors today are 55 to 80 years =
old.&nbsp; I had to give away my 1967 28-foot sailboat in good condition =
at our summer home on Lake Michigan as younger boaters want speed and =
comfort.&nbsp; I still have another younger 28-foot sailboat in Punta =
Gorda, Florida and will continue to sail in accordance with the =
agreement with my wife that I will not sail alone.&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Also, our =
British Car Club of SW Florida is very large and growing thanks to the =
efforts of Hermann who revived the club.&nbsp; He is a born salesman and =
a lover of old sports cars.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span=
 style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Bob =
Begani<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">67 =
BJ8<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p><div><div =
style=3D"border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; =
border-color: rgb(225, 225, 225) currentcolor currentcolor; padding: 3pt =
0in 0in;"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Healeys &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b>On Behalf Of<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>josef-eckert--- via =
Healeys<br><b>Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Saturday, December 16, 2023 =
1:15 PM<br><b>To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Bob Spidell &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; Michael Oritt &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M =
on BAT<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p><div style=3D"margin: =
0in;"><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
Arial, sans-serif;">As far as I can see here in Europe, the market for =
Austin-Healeys and comparable vehicles from the 1950s has collapsed =
extremely.</span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span><span><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">It's like the pre-war vehicles.</span></span><span><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span><span><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">They can no longer keep up with today's traffic and on =
motorways they are quite problematic due to the high traffic density and =
the many trucks that also recklessly swerve to =
overtake.</span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span><span><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">A =
100M and also a 100 are no longer in demand.</span></span><span><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span><span><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">The clientele that still knows Austin-Healey from her past =
is almost extinct.</span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span><span><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">Hardly anyone has met Donald Healey =
here.</span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span><span><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">I'm 66 years old now and didn't know him =
either.</span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span><span><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">I =
saw Geoff once before he died, but we knew Margot quite well, having met =
through friends.</span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span><span><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">But back to the 100M.</span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span><span><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">Hardly anyone here knows the difference between a 100 with =
a LeMans kit and a 100M.</span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span><span><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">All of these are then usually offered as 100 Le =
Mans.</span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span><span><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">If a genuine 100M is actually offered, the price is =
slightly higher than for a comparable 100, but not by a factor of 2. =
Nobody actually pays that here.</span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>There is also non who would =
pay 100K$ for a 100 or 100M.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span><span><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">But as I said, Austin-Healeys are slow sellers and the 3000 =
BJ8 Ph2 is most in demand because it offers just enough =
comfort.</span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span><span><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">But younger people don't want these old cars at =
all.</span></span><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span><span><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">They are looking for a BMW, Porsche or something else from =
the 70s or 80s that also offers more safety and comfort and that they =
know from their youth. Lower priced british cars like MG Bs are also =
out. They are too expensive compared to a Mazda MX-5, or Jaguar XK8 =
which are definitely the better cars =
compared.</span></span><u></u><u></u></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in;"><span><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
Arial, sans-serif;">Btw.: The Austin-Healey clubs here have gotten =
pretty tired. The beautiful events like International healey Weekends =
that were offered 20 years ago are no longer offered in thre former =
glance for a long time. There are hardly any active people willing to do =
work for the clubs anymore. Those who do it are also a good 70 years old =
and what is then done is not really inviting. Many people now stay away =
from these events which are expensive, but not =
inviting.</span></span><u></u><u></u></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">Josef Eckert</span><u></u><u></u></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;">Germany</span><u></u><u></u></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in;">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in;">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p></div></div><br><br><br>------=
---- Forwarded message ----------<br>From:&nbsp;David Masucci &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>To:&nbsp;"<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>" &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>Cc:&nbsp;Bob =
Spidell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;, Michael Oritt &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;, Ahealey help &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>Bcc:&nbsp;<br>Date:&nb=
sp;Sun, 17 Dec 2023 08:10:57 -0500<br>Subject:&nbsp;Re: [Healeys] Recent =
100M on BAT<br><div>All of this is inevitable, and not a &nbsp;bad =
thing. Let=E2=80=99s just continue to enjoy what we can while we can. =
There will be other passions that will entice follow-on generations to =
enjoy memories from their =
youth.&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>Dave<br><div><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div>On Dec 16, 2023, at 1:14 PM, josef-eckert--- via =
Healeys &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br><div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; =
text-decoration: none;"><span lang=3D"en"><span><span>As far as I can =
see here in Europe, the market for Austin-Healeys and comparable =
vehicles from the 1950s has collapsed extremely.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span><span>It's like the =
pre-war vehicles.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span><span>They can no =
longer keep up with today's traffic and on motorways they are quite =
problematic due to the high traffic density and the many trucks that =
also recklessly swerve to overtake.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span><span>A 100M and also =
a 100 are no longer in demand.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span><span>The clientele =
that still knows Austin-Healey from her past is almost =
extinct.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span><span>Hardly anyone =
has met Donald Healey here.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span><span>I'm 66 years =
old now and didn't know him either.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span><span>I saw Geoff =
once before he died, but we knew Margot quite well, having met through =
friends.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span><span>But back to the =
100M.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span><span>Hardly anyone =
here knows the difference between a 100 with a LeMans kit and a =
100M.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span><span>All of these =
are then usually offered as 100 Le Mans.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span><span>If a genuine =
100M is actually offered, the price is slightly higher than for a =
comparable 100, but not by a factor of 2. Nobody actually pays that =
here.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>There is also non who would =
pay 100K$ for a 100 or 100M.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span><span>But as I said, =
Austin-Healeys are slow sellers and the 3000 BJ8 Ph2 is most in demand =
because it offers just enough comfort.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span><span>But younger =
people don't want these old cars at all.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span><span>They are =
looking for a BMW, Porsche or something else from the 70s or 80s that =
also offers more safety and comfort and that they know from their youth. =
Lower priced british cars like MG Bs are also out. They are too =
expensive compared to a Mazda MX-5, or Jaguar XK8 which are definitely =
the better cars compared.<br></span></span></span></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, =
sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: none;"><span =
lang=3D"en"><span><span>Btw.: The Austin-Healey clubs here have gotten =
pretty tired. The beautiful events like International healey Weekends =
that were offered 20 years ago are no longer offered in thre former =
glance for a long time. There are hardly any active people willing to do =
work for the clubs anymore. Those who do it are also a good 70 years old =
and what is then done is not really inviting. Many people now stay away =
from these events which are expensive, but not =
inviting.</span></span></span></span></div><p style=3D"margin: =
0px;"><span style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; =
font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: none;">&nbsp;</span></p><div =
style=3D"margin: 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, =
sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: none;">Josef =
Eckert</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family:=
 arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: =
none;">Germany</span></div><p style=3D"margin: 0px;">&nbsp;</p><p =
style=3D"margin: 0px;">&nbsp;</p><p style=3D"margin: =
0px;">&nbsp;</p><div style=3D"margin: =
0px;">-----Original-Nachricht-----</div><div style=3D"margin: =
0px;">Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT</div><div style=3D"margin:=
 0px;">Datum: 2023-12-16T17:41:57+0100</div><div style=3D"margin: =
0px;">Von: "Bob Spidell" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</div><div style=3D"margin: =
0px;">An: "Michael Oritt" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</div><p style=3D"margin:=
 0px;">&nbsp;</p><p style=3D"margin: 0px;">&nbsp;</p><p style=3D"margin: =
0px;">&nbsp;</p><div style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 12px; =
line-height: normal; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">I think =
that's indisputable (I unintentionally neglected to mention that =
aspect). That, and the fact the kits were selling made a case for =
selling the M (these days, that would take an army of marketing people =
to figure out, with lots of 'data' of course, and maybe some AI). =
Doesn't negate the strong showing of taking, IIRC, 3 cars off the =
lot--or was that the Bonneville cars?--hanging a few fancy bits on it =
and giving the bespoke Ferraris, Jags, Astons, Mercedeses etc. a run for =
their money (the Healeys' rugged simplicity likely helped). DMH was a =
brilliant marketer and salesman; he spotted the 'niche' hole between =
lower--performance MGs--we're talking TCs and TDs, not Bs and Cs--and =
higher-performance but much more expensive Jaguars and plugged it. =
History says he drove cross-county in the US to gauge the market; =
probably why he made overdrive an option from the get-go, for the =
wide-open US highways. I don't know Triumph history that well, was the =
TR2 a contemporary of the 100?<br><br>How many times have you been asked =
what your Healey is worth--usually by a 'not-a-car-person'--and you've =
replied 'Whatever someone will pay me for it' (then, if the person seems =
genuinely interested I may give a run-down of the contemporary market; =
these days 'not so good'). It's the same with other marques; witness the =
number of Chevelle SS 'tribute' cars going across the block at auctions. =
Genuine Ms can command a 50-100% premium over comparable 100s; hence the =
intensity of the interest and critique. Did you watch the BaT auction? =
It was pretty savage and enlightening, to me; I was surprised Bill let =
the incorrect carbs and distributor slide (maybe he was tired of doing =
the registry thing).<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><br>=46rom the late, =
great Gary Anderson:<br><br><a =
href=3D"https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/0=
3/The-Heritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf" =
target=3D"_blank">https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uplo=
ads/2019/03/The-Heritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf</a><br><br><br><div>O=
n 12/16/2023 6:46 AM, Michael Oritt wrote:</div><blockquote><div =
dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, =
255);">Some feel that since DMH knew he was going to change over to a =
new car (the 100-6) he figured out a clever marketing&nbsp;ploy to get =
rid of what might otherwise have become a =
less-than-desirable&nbsp;inventory of late production 100's by =
outfitting some of the cars with the snazzy M upgrade.&nbsp; If so it =
was probably never his intention nor in his comprehension to =
produce&nbsp;what has ironically become a very special Healey second =
only to the 100-S in collectibility.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">&nbsp;</div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">Best--Michael =
Oritt</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"gmail_attr" =
dir=3D"ltr">On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 1:31=E2=80=AFAM Bob Spidell &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; =
border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: =
rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div>The M was rated at =
110HP--more if you got the optional branch extractor--as opposed to a =
stock BN2's 90HP. That's a 22% increase in power; I'd call that =
significant. Also, how do you 'hang' a camshaft and pistons on an engine =
(the mechanics were supposed to pull the engine, but if DMH and Geoff =
weren't around they'd cheat and do the mods in situ)?<br><br>I think at =
least part of the value of an M is that it made an appearance at the =
Healey factory, possibly with DMH and/or Geoff in attendance, as opposed =
to just coming off the Austin assembly line. Also, the modifications =
were, for the most part, the same as made to the cars that ran at LeMans =
in '52 ('53?) and came in 13th (or 14th) overall. When customers started =
asking for the same modifications DMH first sold a kit, then the =
complete car (anyone remember 'Race on Sunday, sell on =
Monday?').<br><br>I'd say the market has spoken, since genuine M cars =
command a significant price premium (hence why of the original, =
documented 640 cars only 3,000 remain).<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><br>bs<br><br><br><div>On=
 12/15/2023 2:16 PM, Michael Salter wrote:</div><blockquote><div =
dir=3D"auto">I'm not an "M" guy really because as someone mentioned =
there isn't that much to hanging the "modification " parts on any =
100.&nbsp;<div dir=3D"auto">If the "M" designation involved significant =
performance modifications,&nbsp; say like an "M" series BMW, which could =
not be easily copied, then I would consider them be very special.<div =
dir=3D"auto">I understand that Mr Meade has now sold his "M" so would =
not be surprised to see the "Registry" fade away.</div><div =
dir=3D"auto">Just my opinion.&nbsp;</div><div =
dir=3D"auto">&nbsp;</div><div dir=3D"auto">M</div></div></div><br><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Fri., =
Dec. 15, 2023, 1:59 p.m. josef-eckert--- via Healeys, &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; =
border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: =
rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div><pre dir=3D"ltr" =
style=3D"text-align: left;"><span lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">What makes a 100M? Very good =
question and not easy to answer. In my opinion, an Austin-Healey 100M, =
especially as the price category is significantly higher than the normal =
100, is a car that any modification reduces its value. A heavily =
modified 100M is nothing special. It's a modified 100 and no longer an =
M. But this is my personal opinion. A new chassis would be such a major =
modification for me, as would a conversion to disc brakes at the front =
or a conversion to a Weber carburettors, etc. This would be simply no =
longer a Genuine 100M. I would then rather buy an original Austin-Healey =
100 for the same money. But I have to admit, for me the hype surrounding =
the 100M is far exaggerated for what the car is. It's a special model =
with a little more horsepower, but not anything particularly special. =
Its like an Alpina BMW or a AMG Mercedes. Josef Eckert Germany =
</span></pre><p style=3D"margin: 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family: =
arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: =
none;">&nbsp;</span></p><p style=3D"margin: 0px;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; =
text-decoration: none;">&nbsp;</span></p><p style=3D"margin: =
0px;">&nbsp;</p><p style=3D"margin: 0px;">&nbsp;</p><div style=3D"margin: =
0px;">-----Original-Nachricht-----</div><div style=3D"margin: =
0px;">Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT</div><div style=3D"margin:=
 0px;">Datum: 2023-12-15T18:07:16+0100</div><div style=3D"margin: =
0px;">Von: "Bob Spidell" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</div><div style=3D"margin: =
0px;">An: "HealeyRick" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</div><p =
style=3D"margin: 0px;">&nbsp;</p><p style=3D"margin: 0px;">&nbsp;</p><p =
style=3D"margin: 0px;">&nbsp;</p><div style=3D"font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; =
font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, =
sans-serif;">Note the Registry will also certify 'Le Mans Conversions,' =
which may be what Kent's nasty is/was. Some have noted you can build a =
'better M' with aftermarket parts (Isky cam, alloy head, SBC, =
etc.).<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><br>I don't =
think either Kilmartin or Jules makes a 100 chassis, but I'd be somewhat =
more sympathetic to that, but not so much hanging an M body and parts on =
a BN1 (a BN2,<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><em>maybe</em>). The main =
problem I see is an earnest owner may sell a conversion (aka =
'counterfeit') with full disclosure, but an owner or two down the road =
the 'Tribute' tag has been conveniently forgotten (I'm not all in on =
'tribute' anything, be they cars or rock bands).<br><br><br><div>On =
12/15/2023 7:17 AM, HealeyRick wrote:</div><blockquote><div =
dir=3D"ltr">This is all hypothesis based on speculation so take it with =
that caveat.&nbsp; Let's say one had a rusty factory 100M that was so =
bad it needed a new frame.&nbsp; How hard would it be to transfer the =
100M body parts over to a solid BN1 chassis along with the =
oh-so-valuable chassis plate? The 100M Registry seems to focus mostly on =
the original body parts and cockpit surrounds to certify a car. Even =
cars with non-original engines have been registered. I'm pretty certain =
Kent Lacy's Nasty M was on the registry. So is the BaT car still an =
M?&nbsp; Some pretty valuable race cars have been crashed and fitted =
with&nbsp;new chassis and still bring big money at =
auction.&nbsp;<div>&nbsp;</div><div>To me, what makes an M an M is the =
motor.&nbsp; If an M no longer has its original motor, or equal =
replacement, it has lost its character as an M. Otherwise, it's a BN2 =
with a louvered hood. It's almost like if a Sunbeam Tiger blew its motor =
and it was replaced with an Alpine motor. Sure, it's got the right =
serial number on the unibody, but it's not much of a Tiger anymore. The =
BaT car with what appears to be non-original carbs and distributor =
caused me concern. Who would remove those from an original M motor? =
C'mon 100M sellers, pop the valve cover, remove the rockers and put a =
dial indicator on the pushrods so we can see if there is still a 100M =
cam in the lump!</div><div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Happy =
Healeydays,</div><div>Rick Neville</div></div></div><br><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, Dec =
14, 2023 at 1:05=E2=80=AFPM Bob Spidell &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; =
border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: =
rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div>Excellent report, thank =
you.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><br>I was one =
of the commenters on BaT--I joined BaT to comment--but, since I have a =
BN2/100M I'm not familiar with BN1 differences and could only point out =
obvious differences with my car (which was completely original as far as =
I can tell, except for extensive body work). One thing that was somewhat =
disturbing to me is that the Registry certified this car, while noting =
some major anomalies (the carbs, for instance, looked to be new and =
didn't have the hand scribing like my car).<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><br>The other thing =
that interested me is, how do you value this car? Yes, it's a very nice =
car, probably a good driver but, IMO, its value<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><em>should</em><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>be less than a comparably =
restored, original BN1 or BN2. And, what did the previous owner know, or =
should have known about this car? How do you present it for sale; as a =
BN1 with 'M bits?' It would need the proverbial asterisk alongside the =
page title.<br><br>Bob<br><br><br><br><div>On 12/14/2023 8:15 AM, S and =
T Miller wrote:</div><blockquote><div style=3D"font-family: inherit; =
font-size: inherit; color: inherit; background-color: =
transparent;"><div>If you were following it recently,&nbsp; you might =
find my observations interesting.&nbsp; So I went down to Michael's =
motor cars to help him determine if the 100m indeed has a BN1 chassis. =
Here is what I found.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>It has the BN1 inner =
fenders with the rolled pressings. It has the BN1 front brake hose frame =
mount the is less pronounced welded BN1 bracket, as the later cars have =
a bolted on bracket. The front shock towers have no evidence of being =
replaced and show the factory welds. The gearbox mount shows =
non-original/factory welds as if it were replaced to accommodate the BN2 =
mount.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>What I found most interesting is =
that where a BN1 has two OD relays mounted under the dash, it took =
shining a light it different directions to just make out the slight =
evidence of filled holes (4 of then for the two relays). And I was able =
to reach inside the vent just below that area with my fingers and feel =
the welds and welding wire that was used to fill those 4 holes. I can =
tell you someone took great care to try and make those holes seem as =
they never existed.&nbsp; Along with that, where a BN2 would have the =
single OD relay attached to the firewall with machine screws screwed =
into welded captive nuts on the firewall,&nbsp; you can see plain sheet =
screws were used to mount it in what would be a BN2 relay =
position.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>I also feel the engine tag is =
a repo because of the lighter stamping. Originals tend to have the =
numbers/ letters stamped with a deeper end result.&nbsp; I took my repo =
engine tag along to compare, and they appeared identical in the =
stampings. The body/ bath tag and VIN plate appear original. Now that =
doesn't mean that the engine isn't the correct M engine, because there =
could be many reasons why the engine tag was replaced. Anyone who drove =
a stock 100 compared to a 100M can attest to the difference in power, =
and Mike stated that it indeed has that M =
power.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>The boot lid shows no evidence =
of the stay bracket being swapped off another lid, and if you look =
closely you can see that the boot shows some previous age/life. I'd =
believe it to be original. I could not make out any evidence of the =
bonnet number being sliced in from a M bonnet, but I will say that the =
underside of the bonnet seemed suspiciously clean and prestine. I =
couldn't detect any age like the boot, but that would be for someone =
else to decide.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Mike had asked me if =
the cold air box was original,&nbsp; and I simply don't have that =
experience to know. I have anyways heard if it looks old, it's =
original.&nbsp; It does indeed look to have some age, =
so?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>I feel at some point in this car's life =
someone went to some effort to try and conceal that these 100M parts =
were reinstalled on a BN1 chassis. Another interesting note is that =
there was an attempt to fill the holes where a BN1 chassis plate is =
fitted on the frame rail. Perhaps the person didn't realize that the =
holes continued over to the BN2's, and thought they were erasing =
evidence of a BN1 chassis?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>With all =
that said, Mike is simply trying to represent the car correctly. The car =
is a very nice car! Paint is very nice, car is straight, and gaps look =
good. Interior is very nice, and looks to be a very good car all around. =
I didn't drive the car, but Mike has years of experience under his belt, =
so I'd trust his opinions on that. With the quality of the =
restoration,&nbsp; it is surprising that the front frame to shroud =
brackets were not welded to the frame. Chrome looks good, and I'd think =
winning some trophies at a popular vote car would not be an =
issue.&nbsp;</div></div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>The =
Millers<br>&nbsp;<br>"Always drive them, but remember each drive in an =
antique car is a test =
drive."</div></blockquote></div>__________________________________________=
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[email-masked]

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---

From: Richard Mayor <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 22:50:39 -0800

--===============7127231137086710144==

--Apple-Mail=_30102F97-72BE-4009-9160-795D831C4D1C
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Maybe I shouldn=E2=80=99t have used the word =E2=80=9Cclone=E2=80=9D.   =
Even though it made me wonder.=20

Richard Mayor
[email-masked]

> On Dec 17, 2023, at 4:06 PM, richard mayor <[email-masked]> =
wrote:
>>         http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys =
<http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys>
over=20
doing=20
high=20
involved.
https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/The-He=
ritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf =
<https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/The-H=
eritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf>
>>>>> Genuine 100M. I would then rather buy an original Austin-Healey =
100 for the same money. But I have to admit, for me=20
>>>>> the hype surrounding the 100M is far exaggerated for what the car =
is. It's a special model with a little more=20
>>>>> I was one of the commenters on BaT--I joined BaT to comment--but, =
since I have a BN2/100M I'm not familiar with BN1 differences and could =
only point out obvious differences with my car (which was completely =
original as far as I can tell, except for extensive body work). One =
thing that was somewhat disturbing to me is that the Registry certified =
this car, while noting some major anomalies (the carbs, for instance, =
looked to be new and didn't have the hand scribing like my car).=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> The other thing that interested me is, how do you value this car? =
Yes, it's a very nice car, probably a good driver but, IMO, its value =
shouldbe less than a comparably restored, original BN1 or BN2. And, what =
did the previous owner know, or should have known about this car? How do =
you present it for sale; as a BN1 with 'M bits?' It would need the =
proverbial asterisk alongside the page title.
>>>>> If you were following it recently,  you might find my observations =
interesting.  So I went down to Michael's motor cars to help him =
determine if the 100m indeed has a BN1 chassis. Here is what I found.
>>>>> =20
>>>>> It has the BN1 inner fenders with the rolled pressings. It has the =
BN1 front brake hose frame mount the is less pronounced welded BN1 =
>>>>> =20
>>>>> Mike had asked me if the cold air box was original,  and I simply =
don't have that experience to know. I have anyways heard if it looks =
old, it's original.  It does indeed look to have some age, so?

>>>>> =20
>>>>> The Millers
>>>>> =20
>>>>> "Always drive them, but remember each drive in an antique car is a =
test drive."
>>>>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html =
<http://www.team.net/donate.html>
>>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
<http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys> =
http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys =
<http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys>
>>>>>=20
>>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys =
<http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys>
>>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked] =
<http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]>
>>>>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html =
<http://www.team.net/donate.html>
>>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
<http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys> =
http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys =
<http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys>
>>>>>=20
>>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys =
<http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys>
>>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked] =
<http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]>
>>>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html =
<http://www.team.net/donate.html>
>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
<http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys> =
http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys =
<http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys>
>>>>=20
>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys =
<http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys>
>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked] =
<http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]>
>>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html =
<http://www.team.net/donate.html>
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
<http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys> =
http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys =
<http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys>
>>>=20
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys =
<http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys>
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked] =
<http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]>
via Healeys
>> As far as I can see here in Europe, the market for Austin-Healeys and =
comparable vehicles from the 1950s has collapsed extremely. It's like =
the pre-war vehicles. They can no longer keep up with today's traffic =
and on motorways they are quite problematic due to the high traffic =
density and the many trucks that also recklessly swerve to overtake. A =
100M and also a 100 are no longer in demand. The clientele that still =
knows Austin-Healey from her past is almost extinct. Hardly anyone has =
met Donald Healey here. I'm 66 years old now and didn't know him either. =
I saw Geoff once before he died, but we knew Margot quite well, having =
met through friends. But back to the 100M. Hardly anyone here knows the =
difference between a 100 with a LeMans kit and a 100M. All of these are =
then usually offered as 100 Le Mans. If a genuine 100M is actually =
offered, the price is slightly higher than for a comparable 100, but not =
by a factor of 2. Nobody actually pays that here. There is also non who =
would pay 100K$ for a 100 or 100M. But as I said, Austin-Healeys are =
slow sellers and the 3000 BJ8 Ph2 is most in demand because it offers =
just enough comfort. But younger people don't want these old cars at =
all. They are looking for a BMW, Porsche or something else from the 70s =
or 80s that also offers more safety and comfort and that they know from =
their youth. Lower priced british cars like MG Bs are also out. They are =
too expensive compared to a Mazda MX-5, or Jaguar XK8 which are =
definitely the better cars compared.
>> From: David Masucci <[email-masked] =
Michael Oritt <[email-masked] =
https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/The-He=
ritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf =
<https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/The-H=
eritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf>
>>> What makes a 100M? Very good question and not easy to answer. In my =
opinion, an Austin-Healey 100M, especially as the price category is =
>>> Note the Registry will also certify 'Le Mans Conversions,' which may =
be what Kent's nasty is/was. Some have noted you can build a 'better M' =
with aftermarket parts (Isky cam, alloy head, SBC, etc.).=20
>>>=20
>>> I don't think either Kilmartin or Jules makes a 100 chassis, but I'd =
be somewhat more sympathetic to that, but not so much hanging an M body =
and parts on a BN1 (a BN2, maybe). The main problem I see is an earnest =
owner may sell a conversion (aka 'counterfeit') with full disclosure, =
but an owner or two down the road the 'Tribute' tag has been =
conveniently forgotten (I'm not all in on 'tribute' anything, be they =
cars or rock bands).
>>> =20
>>> To me, what makes an M an M is the motor.  If an M no longer has its =
original motor, or equal replacement, it has lost its character as an M. =
Otherwise, it's a BN2 with a louvered hood. It's almost like if a =
Sunbeam Tiger blew its motor and it was replaced with an Alpine motor. =
Sure, it's got the right serial number on the unibody, but it's not much =
of a Tiger anymore. The BaT car with what appears to be non-original =
carbs and distributor caused me concern. Who would remove those from an =
original M motor? C'mon 100M sellers, pop the valve cover, remove the =
rockers and put a dial indicator on the pushrods so we can see if there =
is still a 100M cam in the lump!
>>> I was one of the commenters on BaT--I joined BaT to comment--but, =
since I have a BN2/100M I'm not familiar with BN1 differences and could =
only point out obvious differences with my car (which was completely =
original as far as I can tell, except for extensive body work). One =
thing that was somewhat disturbing to me is that the Registry certified =
this car, while noting some major anomalies (the carbs, for instance, =
looked to be new and didn't have the hand scribing like my car).=20
>>>=20
>>> The other thing that interested me is, how do you value this car? =
Yes, it's a very nice car, probably a good driver but, IMO, its value =
should be less than a comparably restored, original BN1 or BN2. And, =
what did the previous owner know, or should have known about this car? =
How do you present it for sale; as a BN1 with 'M bits?' It would need =
the proverbial asterisk alongside the page title.
>>> If you were following it recently,  you might find my observations =
interesting.  So I went down to Michael's motor cars to help him =
determine if the 100m indeed has a BN1 chassis. Here is what I found.
>>> =20
>>> It has the BN1 inner fenders with the rolled pressings. It has the =
BN1 front brake hose frame mount the is less pronounced welded BN1 =
>>> =20
>>> What I found most interesting is that where a BN1 has two OD relays =
mounted under the dash, it took shining a light it different directions =
to just make out the slight evidence of filled holes (4 of then for the =
two relays). And I was able to reach inside the vent just below that =
area with my fingers and feel the welds and welding wire that was used =
to fill those 4 holes. I can tell you someone took great care to try and =
make those holes seem as they never existed.  Along with that, where a =
BN2 would have the single OD relay attached to the firewall with machine =
screws screwed into welded captive nuts on the firewall,  you can see =
plain sheet screws were used to mount it in what would be a BN2 relay =
position.=20
>>> =20
>>> The boot lid shows no evidence of the stay bracket being swapped off =
>>> =20
>>> Mike had asked me if the cold air box was original,  and I simply =
don't have that experience to know. I have anyways heard if it looks =
old, it's original.  It does indeed look to have some age, so?
>>> =20
>>> I feel at some point in this car's life someone went to some effort =
to try and conceal that these 100M parts were reinstalled on a BN1 =
chassis. Another interesting note is that there was an attempt to fill =
the holes where a BN1 chassis plate is fitted on the frame rail. Perhaps =
the person didn't realize that the holes continued over to the BN2's, =
and thought they were erasing evidence of a BN1 chassis?=20

>>> =20
>>> The Millers
>>> =20
>>> "Always drive them, but remember each drive in an antique car is a =
test drive."
>>> Support Team.Net <http://team.net/> http://www.team.net/donate.html =
<http://www.team.net/donate.html>
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
<http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys> =
http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys =
<http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys>
>>>=20
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys =
<http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys>
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked] =
<http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]>
>>> Support Team.Net <http://team.net/> http://www.team.net/donate.html =
<http://www.team.net/donate.html>
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
<http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys> =
http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys =
<http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys>
>>>=20
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys =
<http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys>
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked] =
<http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]>
>>> Support Team.Net <http://team.net/> http://www.team.net/donate.html =
<http://www.team.net/donate.html>
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
<http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys> =
http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys =
<http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys>
>>>=20
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys =
<http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys>
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked] =
<http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]>
>>> Support Team.Net <http://team.net/> http://www.team.net/donate.html =
<http://www.team.net/donate.html>
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
<http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys> =
http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys =
<http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys>
>>>=20
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys =
<http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys>
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked] =
<http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]>
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys =
<http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys>
>>=20
>> archives:  http://autox.team.net/archive =
<http://autox.team.net/archive>
>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html =
<http://www.team.net/donate.html>
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
<http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys> =
http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys =
<http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys>
>>=20
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys =
<http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked] =
<http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]>
>> Support Team.Net <http://team.net/> http://www.team.net/donate.html =
<http://www.team.net/donate.html>
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
<http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys> =
http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys =
<http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys>
>>=20
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys =
<http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked] =
<http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]>

--Apple-Mail=_30102F97-72BE-4009-9160-795D831C4D1C
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Maybe I shouldn=E2=80=99t have used the word =E2=80=9Cclone=E2=80=
=9D. &nbsp; Even though it made me wonder.&nbsp;<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div =
apple-content-edited=3D"true" class=3D"">
Richard&nbsp;Mayor<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">

</div>
<br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Dec 17, 2023, at 4:06 PM, richard mayor &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><meta =
http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">The fact that it=E2=80=99=
s a BN1 chassis (no flanges on the shocks tower) is certainly a red flag =
and I think that anyone who caught that discrepancy should feel =
obligated to inform prospective buyers. &nbsp;If you=E2=80=99re gonna =
clone a 100M, at least do it on a BN2 chassis. Right? &nbsp;<div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Rick is spot on. =E2=80=9C=
If a seller doesn=E2=80=99t want honest opinions, go offer it somewhere =
else=E2=80=A6.. =E2=80=9C. &nbsp;</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">Richard Mayor</div><div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">

</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Dec 17, 2023, at 3:29 PM, HealeyRick &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;=
 wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><meta=
 charset=3D"UTF-8" class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">Craig,<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Ethical commenters on BaT need to walk =
a tightrope between helping bidders avoid a mistake or pooching a =
seller's sale. I won't comment on a sale of someone I know because I =
don't want to be accused of puffing their sale or OTOH submarining one =
that is being offered by a friend. If a seller doesn't want honest =
opinions, go offer it somewhere else and stay off BaT. Someone who =
benefitted from your advice should be thankful.&nbsp; It's not supposed =
to be a cheerleading squad every time&nbsp;a person puts a car up for =
auction.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Happy =
Healeydays,</div><div class=3D"">Rick Neville</div></div><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Dec 17, 2023 at =
3:52=E2=80=AFPM Craig Cooper &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
 class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; =
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size: =
large;">Re: Recent 100 M on BaT</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-size: large;"><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size: large;">Rick and Bob:&nbsp; =
I did it.&nbsp; I was the one who posted on BaT Nov.16 that there is a =
problem with the front shock towers and maybe half a dozen other issues =
that went unanswered.&nbsp; Being incredulous at the number of issues on =
the bottom of the car, considering how glowingly it was being presented, =
I showed the pictures to my fellow Healey 100 obsessed neighbor who said =
"Aren't those BN1 shock towers?"&nbsp; I had also recently watched the =
walk around video and simply couldn't contain myself.&nbsp; Maybe it =
would have been better to just reach out to the seller, but I didn't =
think of that until just now.&nbsp; Contrary to being savage, I think my =
remarks showed restraint.&nbsp; There is a lot more there, and I didn't =
mention any of the top side problems.&nbsp; (Bob, I laughed&nbsp;when I =
read your "ashtray delete" remark)&nbsp; I think the open discussion of =
shortcomings of cars listed on BaT benefits both the buyer and the =
seller.&nbsp; Imagine the embarrassment&nbsp;of a neophyte Healey 100 =
enthusiast having&nbsp; paid top dollar for this car entering it in a =
concours ("would be welcome and do well in any concours") and having it =
judged to AH Club USA concours standards, or more likely declined to be =
judged.&nbsp; Think he might seek legal remedy?&nbsp; I wouldn't want to =
be the guy who sold it to him.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-size: large;"><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size: =
large;">&nbsp;&nbsp;</div></div><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Dec =
17, 2023 at 11:01=E2=80=AFAM &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; =
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div =
class=3D"">Send Healeys mailing list submissions to<br class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">To =
subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys" rel=3D"noreferrer"=
 target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a><br =
class=3D"">or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' =
to<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">You can reach the person managing the list at<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more =
specific<br class=3D"">than "Re: Contents of Healeys digest..."<br =
class=3D"">Today's Topics:<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;1. =
Re: Recent 100M on BAT (Mark Bradakis)<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;2. Re: =
Recent 100M on BAT (Bob Spidell)<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;3. Re: =
Recent 100M on BAT (<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>)<br class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp;4. Re: Recent 100M on BAT (David Masucci)<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">---------- Forwarded message =
----------<br class=3D"">From:&nbsp;Mark Bradakis &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">To:&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a><br class=3D"">Cc:&nbsp;<br =
class=3D"">Bcc:&nbsp;<br class=3D"">Date:&nbsp;Sat, 16 Dec 2023 13:56:44 =
-0700<br class=3D"">Subject:&nbsp;Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT<br =
class=3D"">On 12/16/23 9:55 AM, Curtis Arndt via Healeys wrote:<br =
class=3D"">&gt; Regarding the 100M Registry, Lynn Martin and I =
volunteered to take over<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">&gt; the =
registry, but after several hours of discussion, the cost of doing<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">&gt; so came =
up and we decided that the price of admission was way too high<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">&gt; for =
something with little to no financial gain and a lot of work =
involved.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Try running Team Net for 30+ =
years!<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">mjb.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br =
class=3D"">From:&nbsp;Bob Spidell &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">To:&nbsp;HealeyRick =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">Cc:&nbsp;Michael =
Oritt &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;, "<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>" &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">Bcc:&nbsp;<br =
class=3D"">Date:&nbsp;Sat, 16 Dec 2023 16:43:03 -0800<br =
class=3D"">Subject:&nbsp;Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT<br class=3D""><u=
 class=3D""></u><div class=3D"">Rick,<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Last =
I heard, the owner was working with BaT to present another listing for =
this car (or did it sell?). If it's presented truthfully, as having a =
replacement chassis and possibly carbs and distributor I'd have no =
issues with it; it is, essentially, an 'M equivalent' with a (likely) =
reduced price. The commenters did a potential buyer a favor; if s/he =
knows what s/he got, and is happy with it, that's great.<br class=3D""><br=
 class=3D"">Bob<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On 12/16/2023 9:31 AM, HealeyRick wrote:<br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"">Bob,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">&nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp;As I prepare to write this month's "Auction Report" for =
the<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><i class=3D"">Healey=
 Marque<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></i>this 100M =
discussion has been really helpful and interesting. I think your =
comment&nbsp; " I was surprised Bill let the incorrect carbs and =
distributor slide "&nbsp; raises a great question of what exactly is the =
100M certificate certifying? Bill Meade has written an article on what =
needs to be presented to be certified.&nbsp; &nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://www.100mregistry.com/PROTECTING_YOUR_100M_Feb_2013.pdf" =
target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://www.100mregistry.com/PROTECTING_YOUR_100M_Feb_2013.pdf&=
nbsp;</a>&nbsp; &nbsp;But it seems to me it mainly focuses on the body =
parts that it left the factory with. I find it interesting there's no =
necessity for pictures of the engine number.&nbsp; And even if all the =
body parts, carbs, and distributor aren't there, Bill says in the =
article&nbsp; "If some of these items are missing, let the Registry =
know. It normally does not prevent registration provided enough ID =
points are present."&nbsp; So my impression, which I'll try to verify =
with Bill, is the certification is focused on the question whether this =
is the car that left the factory that matches the BMIHT certificate =
saying it had a louvered hood and not so much on whether it still has =
all the original parts an M would have come with.</div><div =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>I think one of the benefits =
of the BaT comments for buyers (and probably not so much for sellers) is =
pointing out major deficiencies with an offering. Some buyer might have =
paid way more this car than it would be worth if not for the "savage" =
comments.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Happy =
Healeydays</div><div class=3D"">Rick Neville</div></div><br =
class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 11:46=E2=80=AFAM Bob =
Spidell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; =
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div =
class=3D"">I think that's indisputable (I unintentionally neglected to =
mention that aspect). That, and the fact the kits were selling made a =
case for selling the M (these days, that would take an army of marketing =
people to figure out, with lots of 'data' of course, and maybe some AI). =
Doesn't negate the strong showing of taking, IIRC, 3 cars off the =
lot--or was that the Bonneville cars?--hanging a few fancy bits on it =
and giving the bespoke Ferraris, Jags, Astons, Mercedeses etc. a run for =
their money (the Healeys' rugged simplicity likely helped). DMH was a =
brilliant marketer and salesman; he spotted the 'niche' hole between =
lower--performance MGs--we're talking TCs and TDs, not Bs and Cs--and =
higher-performance but much more expensive Jaguars and plugged it. =
History says he drove cross-county in the US to gauge the market; =
probably why he made overdrive an option from the get-go, for the =
wide-open US highways. I don't know Triumph history that well, was the =
TR2 a contemporary of the 100?<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">How many =
times have you been asked what your Healey is worth--usually by a =
'not-a-car-person'--and you've replied 'Whatever someone will pay me for =
it' (then, if the person seems genuinely interested I may give a =
run-down of the contemporary market; these days 'not so good'). It's the =
same with other marques; witness the number of Chevelle SS 'tribute' =
cars going across the block at auctions. Genuine Ms can command a =
50-100% premium over comparable 100s; hence the intensity of the =
interest and critique. Did you watch the BaT auction? It was pretty =
savage and enlightening, to me; I was surprised Bill let the incorrect =
carbs and distributor slide (maybe he was tired of doing the registry =
thing).<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">=46rom the late, great Gary Anderson:<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/0=
3/The-Heritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/201=
9/03/The-Heritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf</a><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">On 12/16/2023 6:46 AM, Michael =
Oritt wrote:<br class=3D""></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div=
 dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color: =
rgb(51, 51, 255);">Some feel that since DMH knew he was going to change =
over to a new car (the 100-6) he figured out a clever =
marketing&nbsp;ploy to get rid of what might otherwise have become a =
less-than-desirable&nbsp;inventory of late production 100's by =
outfitting some of the cars with the snazzy M upgrade.&nbsp; If so it =
was probably never his intention nor in his comprehension to =
produce&nbsp;what has ironically become a very special Healey second =
only to the 100-S in collectibility.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 255);"><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">Best--Michael =
Oritt</div></div><br class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 1:31=E2=80=AFAM =
Bob Spidell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; =
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div =
class=3D"">The M was rated at 110HP--more if you got the optional branch =
extractor--as opposed to a stock BN2's 90HP. That's a 22% increase in =
power; I'd call that significant. Also, how do you 'hang' a camshaft and =
pistons on an engine (the mechanics were supposed to pull the engine, =
but if DMH and Geoff weren't around they'd cheat and do the mods in =
situ)?<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">I think at least part of the value =
of an M is that it made an appearance at the Healey factory, possibly =
with DMH and/or Geoff in attendance, as opposed to just coming off the =
Austin assembly line. Also, the modifications were, for the most part, =
the same as made to the cars that ran at LeMans in '52 ('53?) and came =
in 13th (or 14th) overall. When customers started asking for the same =
modifications DMH first sold a kit, then the complete car (anyone =
remember 'Race on Sunday, sell on Monday?').<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">I'd say the market has spoken, since genuine M cars command a =
significant price premium (hence why of the original, documented 640 =
cars only 3,000 remain).<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">bs<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On 12/15/2023 2:16 PM, Michael Salter wrote:<br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div dir=3D"auto" =
class=3D"">I'm not an "M" guy really because as someone mentioned there =
isn't that much to hanging the "modification " parts on any =
100.&nbsp;<div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">If the "M" designation involved =
significant performance modifications,&nbsp; say like an "M" series BMW, =
which could not be easily copied, then I would consider them be very =
special.<div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">I understand that Mr Meade has now =
sold his "M" so would not be surprised to see the "Registry" fade =
away.</div><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">Just my opinion.&nbsp;</div><div =
dir=3D"auto" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div dir=3D"auto" =
class=3D"">M</div></div></div><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri., =
Dec. 15, 2023, 1:59 p.m. josef-eckert--- via Healeys, &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; =
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div =
class=3D""><pre =
id=3D"m_-4437042785009811673m_3035444886437018827m_1603492253125454553m_-4=
413793566936237617m_-8948067483587624533tw-target-text" dir=3D"ltr" =
style=3D"text-align: left;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"en" =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">What makes a 100M?=20
Very good question and not easy to answer.

Josef Eckert
Germany
</span></pre><p style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p><p style=3D"margin: =
0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, =
sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: none;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p><p style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</p><p style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</p><div =
style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">-----Original-Nachricht-----</div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on =
BAT</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">Datum: =
2023-12-15T18:07:16+0100</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">Von: =
"Bob Spidell" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D"">An: "HealeyRick" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</div><p style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</p><p style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</p><p =
style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</p><div style=3D"font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: =
normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial, =
Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; =
font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; =
font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; =
font-variant-position: normal; font-feature-settings: normal; =
font-optical-sizing: auto; font-variation-settings: normal;" =
class=3D"">Note the Registry will also certify 'Le Mans Conversions,' =
which may be what Kent's nasty is/was. Some have noted you can build a =
'better M' with aftermarket parts (Isky cam, alloy head, SBC, =
etc.).<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">I don't think either Kilmartin or Jules makes =
a 100 chassis, but I'd be somewhat more sympathetic to that, but not so =
much hanging an M body and parts on a BN1 (a BN2,<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><em class=3D"">maybe</em>). =
The main problem I see is an earnest owner may sell a conversion (aka =
'counterfeit') with full disclosure, but an owner or two down the road =
the 'Tribute' tag has been conveniently forgotten (I'm not all in on =
'tribute' anything, be they cars or rock bands).<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">On 12/15/2023 7:17 AM, =
HealeyRick wrote:</div><blockquote class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"">This is all hypothesis based on speculation so take it with =
that caveat.&nbsp; Let's say one had a rusty factory 100M that was so =
bad it needed a new frame.&nbsp; How hard would it be to transfer the =
100M body parts over to a solid BN1 chassis along with the =
oh-so-valuable chassis plate? The 100M Registry seems to focus mostly on =
the original body parts and cockpit surrounds to certify a car. Even =
cars with non-original engines have been registered. I'm pretty certain =
Kent Lacy's Nasty M was on the registry. So is the BaT car still an =
M?&nbsp; Some pretty valuable race cars have been crashed and fitted =
with&nbsp;new chassis and still bring big money at auction.&nbsp;<div =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">To me, what makes an M an M is =
the motor.&nbsp; If an M no longer has its original motor, or equal =
replacement, it has lost its character as an M. Otherwise, it's a BN2 =
with a louvered hood. It's almost like if a Sunbeam Tiger blew its motor =
and it was replaced with an Alpine motor. Sure, it's got the right =
serial number on the unibody, but it's not much of a Tiger anymore. The =
BaT car with what appears to be non-original carbs and distributor =
caused me concern. Who would remove those from an original M motor? =
C'mon 100M sellers, pop the valve cover, remove the rockers and put a =
dial indicator on the pushrods so we can see if there is still a 100M =
cam in the lump!</div><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">&nbsp;</div><div =
class=3D"">Happy Healeydays,</div><div class=3D"">Rick =
Neville</div></div></div><br class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 1:05=E2=80=AFPM =
Bob Spidell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer"=
 target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; =
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div =
class=3D"">Excellent report, thank you.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">I was one of the commenters on BaT--I joined BaT to =
comment--but, since I have a BN2/100M I'm not familiar with BN1 =
differences and could only point out obvious differences with my car =
(which was completely original as far as I can tell, except for =
extensive body work). One thing that was somewhat disturbing to me is =
that the Registry certified this car, while noting some major anomalies =
(the carbs, for instance, looked to be new and didn't have the hand =
scribing like my car).<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">The other thing that interested me is, how do you value this =
car? Yes, it's a very nice car, probably a good driver but, IMO, its =
value<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><em =
class=3D"">should</em>be less than a comparably restored, original BN1 =
or BN2. And, what did the previous owner know, or should have known =
about this car? How do you present it for sale; as a BN1 with 'M bits?' =
It would need the proverbial asterisk alongside the page title.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Bob<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">On 12/14/2023 8:15 AM, S and T =
Miller wrote:</div><blockquote class=3D""><div style=3D"font-family: =
inherit; font-size: inherit; color: inherit; background-color: =
transparent;" class=3D""><div class=3D"">If you were following it =
recently,&nbsp; you might find my observations interesting.&nbsp; So I =
went down to Michael's motor cars to help him determine if the 100m =
indeed has a BN1 chassis. Here is what I found.</div><div =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">It has the BN1 inner fenders with =
the rolled pressings. It has the BN1 front brake hose frame mount the is =
less pronounced welded BN1 bracket, as the later cars have a bolted on =
bracket. The front shock towers have no evidence of being replaced and =
show the factory welds. The gearbox mount shows non-original/factory =
welds as if it were replaced to accommodate the BN2 =
mount.&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">What I =
found most interesting is that where a BN1 has two OD relays mounted =
under the dash, it took shining a light it different directions to just =
make out the slight evidence of filled holes (4 of then for the two =
relays). And I was able to reach inside the vent just below that area =
with my fingers and feel the welds and welding wire that was used to =
fill those 4 holes. I can tell you someone took great care to try and =
make those holes seem as they never existed.&nbsp; Along with that, =
where a BN2 would have the single OD relay attached to the firewall with =
machine screws screwed into welded captive nuts on the firewall,&nbsp; =
you can see plain sheet screws were used to mount it in what would be a =
BN2 relay position.&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp;</div><div =
class=3D"">I also feel the engine tag is a repo because of the lighter =
stamping. Originals tend to have the numbers/ letters stamped with a =
deeper end result.&nbsp; I took my repo engine tag along to compare, and =
they appeared identical in the stampings. The body/ bath tag and VIN =
plate appear original. Now that doesn't mean that the engine isn't the =
correct M engine, because there could be many reasons why the engine tag =
was replaced. Anyone who drove a stock 100 compared to a 100M can attest =
to the difference in power, and Mike stated that it indeed has that M =
power.&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">The boot =
lid shows no evidence of the stay bracket being swapped off another lid, =
and if you look closely you can see that the boot shows some previous =
age/life. I'd believe it to be original. I could not make out any =
evidence of the bonnet number being sliced in from a M bonnet, but I =
will say that the underside of the bonnet seemed suspiciously clean and =
prestine. I couldn't detect any age like the boot, but that would be for =
someone else to decide.&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp;</div><div =
class=3D"">Mike had asked me if the cold air box was original,&nbsp; and =
I simply don't have that experience to know. I have anyways heard if it =
looks old, it's original.&nbsp; It does indeed look to have some age, =
so?</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">I feel at some =
point in this car's life someone went to some effort to try and conceal =
that these 100M parts were reinstalled on a BN1 chassis. Another =
interesting note is that there was an attempt to fill the holes where a =
BN1 chassis plate is fitted on the frame rail. Perhaps the person didn't =
realize that the holes continued over to the BN2's, and thought they =
were erasing evidence of a BN1 chassis?&nbsp;</div><div =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">With all that said, Mike is =
simply trying to represent the car correctly. The car is a very nice =
car! Paint is very nice, car is straight, and gaps look good. Interior =
is very nice, and looks to be a very good car all around. I didn't drive =
the car, but Mike has years of experience under his belt, so I'd trust =
his opinions on that. With the quality of the restoration,&nbsp; it is =
surprising that the front frame to shroud brackets were not welded to =
the frame. Chrome looks good, and I'd think winning some trophies at a =
popular vote car would not be an issue.&nbsp;</div></div><div =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">The Millers<br class=3D"">&nbsp;<br=
 class=3D"">"Always drive them, but remember each drive in an antique =
car is a test =
drive."</div></blockquote></div>__________________________________________=
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om</a><br class=3D""><br class=3D""></blockquote></div></blockquote><br =
class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">---------- =
Forwarded message ----------<br class=3D"">From:&nbsp;&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">To:&nbsp;&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">Cc:&nbsp;&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">Bcc:&nbsp;<br =
class=3D"">Date:&nbsp;Sun, 17 Dec 2023 05:06:32 -0500<br =
class=3D"">Subject:&nbsp;Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT<br =
class=3D""><div lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D""><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">Dear Josef:<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:=
 16pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D""><u =
class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">Your comments are the same in the USA especially =
in Florida where there are large numbers of retired people.&nbsp; My =
good friend and President of our British Car Club Hermann Schuller =
formerly of Germany has said that younger people want Japanese or =
European sports cars.&nbsp; It is the same for those who enjoy =
boating.&nbsp; Sailors today are 55 to 80 years old.&nbsp; I had to give =
away my 1967 28-foot sailboat in good condition at our summer home on =
Lake Michigan as younger boaters want speed and comfort.&nbsp; I still =
have another younger 28-foot sailboat in Punta Gorda, Florida and will =
continue to sail in accordance with the agreement with my wife that I =
will not sail alone.&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:=
 16pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D""><u =
class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">Also, our British Car Club of SW Florida is very =
large and growing thanks to the efforts of Hermann who revived the =
club.&nbsp; He is a born salesman and a lover of old sports cars.<u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D""><u =
class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">Regards,<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:=
 16pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D""><u =
class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">Bob Begani<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:=
 16pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">67 BJ8<u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D""><u =
class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 16pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:=
 16pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D""><u =
class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></span></p><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; =
border-color: rgb(225, 225, 225) currentcolor currentcolor; padding: 3pt =
0in 0in;" class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b class=3D"">From:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Healeys &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b class=3D"">On Behalf =
Of<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>josef-eckert--- =
via Healeys<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Saturday, December 16, 2023 =
1:15 PM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Bob Spidell &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; Michael Oritt &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Cc:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M =
on BAT<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p></div></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in;" class=3D""><span class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">As =
far as I can see here in Europe, the market for Austin-Healeys and =
comparable vehicles from the 1950s has collapsed =
extremely.</span></span><span class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">It's=
 like the pre-war vehicles.</span></span><span class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">They=
 can no longer keep up with today's traffic and on motorways they are =
quite problematic due to the high traffic density and the many trucks =
that also recklessly swerve to overtake.</span></span><span =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">A 100M and also a 100 are no longer in =
demand.</span></span><span class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">The =
clientele that still knows Austin-Healey from her past is almost =
extinct.</span></span><span class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Hardly anyone has met Donald Healey here.</span></span><span =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">I'm 66 years old now and didn't know him =
either.</span></span><span class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">I =
saw Geoff once before he died, but we knew Margot quite well, having met =
through friends.</span></span><span class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">But =
back to the 100M.</span></span><span class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Hardly anyone here knows the difference between a 100 with a =
LeMans kit and a 100M.</span></span><span class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">All =
of these are then usually offered as 100 Le Mans.</span></span><span =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">If a genuine 100M is actually offered, the price is slightly =
higher than for a comparable 100, but not by a factor of 2. Nobody =
actually pays that here.</span></span><span class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>There is =
also non who would pay 100K$ for a 100 or 100M.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span><span =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">But as I said, Austin-Healeys are slow =
sellers and the 3000 BJ8 Ph2 is most in demand because it offers just =
enough comfort.</span></span><span class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">But =
younger people don't want these old cars at all.</span></span><span =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">They are looking for a BMW, Porsche or something else from =
the 70s or 80s that also offers more safety and comfort and that they =
know from their youth. Lower priced british cars like MG Bs are also =
out. They are too expensive compared to a Mazda MX-5, or Jaguar XK8 =
which are definitely the better cars compared.</span></span><u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in;" =
class=3D""><span class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Btw.: The Austin-Healey =
clubs here have gotten pretty tired. The beautiful events like =
International healey Weekends that were offered 20 years ago are no =
longer offered in thre former glance for a long time. There are hardly =
any active people willing to do work for the clubs anymore. Those who do =
it are also a good 70 years old and what is then done is not really =
inviting. Many people now stay away from these events which are =
expensive, but not inviting.</span></span><u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Josef Eckert</span><u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">Germany</span><u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></p></div></div><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br =
class=3D"">From:&nbsp;David Masucci &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">To:&nbsp;"<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>" &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">Cc:&nbsp;Bob =
Spidell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;, Michael Oritt &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;, Ahealey help &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">Bcc:&nbsp;<br =
class=3D"">Date:&nbsp;Sun, 17 Dec 2023 08:10:57 -0500<br =
class=3D"">Subject:&nbsp;Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT<br =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">All of this is inevitable, and not a =
&nbsp;bad thing. Let=E2=80=99s just continue to enjoy what we can while =
we can. There will be other passions that will entice follow-on =
generations to enjoy memories from their youth.&nbsp;<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Dave<br class=3D""><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Dec =
16, 2023, at 1:14 PM, josef-eckert--- via Healeys &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"en" class=3D""><span =
class=3D""><span class=3D"">As far as I can see here in Europe, the =
market for Austin-Healeys and comparable vehicles from the 1950s has =
collapsed extremely.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">It's like the pre-war vehicles.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">They can no longer keep up with today's traffic and on =
motorways they are quite problematic due to the high traffic density and =
the many trucks that also recklessly swerve to =
overtake.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">A 100M and also a 100 are no longer in =
demand.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">The clientele that still knows Austin-Healey from her past is =
almost extinct.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">Hardly anyone has met Donald Healey here.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">I'm 66 years old now and didn't know him =
either.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">I saw Geoff once before he died, but we knew Margot quite =
well, having met through friends.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">But back to the 100M.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">Hardly anyone here knows the difference between a 100 with a =
LeMans kit and a 100M.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">All of these are then usually offered as 100 Le =
Mans.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">If a genuine 100M is actually offered, the price is slightly =
higher than for a comparable 100, but not by a factor of 2. Nobody =
actually pays that here.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>There is also non who would =
pay 100K$ for a 100 or 100M.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">But as I said, Austin-Healeys are slow sellers and the 3000 =
BJ8 Ph2 is most in demand because it offers just enough =
comfort.</span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">But younger people don't want these old cars at =
all.</span></span><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span=
 class=3D""><span class=3D"">They are looking for a BMW, Porsche or =
something else from the 70s or 80s that also offers more safety and =
comfort and that they know from their youth. Lower priced british cars =
like MG Bs are also out. They are too expensive compared to a Mazda =
MX-5, or Jaguar XK8 which are definitely the better cars compared.<br =
class=3D""></span></span></span></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; =
font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"en" =
class=3D"">Btw.: The Austin-Healey clubs here have gotten pretty tired. =
The beautiful events like International healey Weekends that were =
offered 20 years ago are no longer offered in thre former glance for a =
long time. There are hardly any active people willing to do work for the =
clubs anymore. Those who do it are also a good 70 years old and what is =
then done is not really inviting. Many people now stay away from these =
events which are expensive, but not inviting.</span></span></div><p =
style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: arial, =
helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: none;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">Josef Eckert</span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: arial, =
helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: none;" =
class=3D"">Germany</span></div><p style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</p><p style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</p><p =
style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</p><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D"">-----Original-Nachricht-----</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D"">Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT</div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">Datum: =
2023-12-16T17:41:57+0100</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">Von: =
"Bob Spidell" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">An: "Michael Oritt" &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</div><p style=3D"margin: =
0px;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</p><p style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</p><p style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</p><div =
style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; =
font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">I think that's =
indisputable (I unintentionally neglected to mention that aspect). That, =
and the fact the kits were selling made a case for selling the M (these =
days, that would take an army of marketing people to figure out, with =
lots of 'data' of course, and maybe some AI). Doesn't negate the strong =
showing of taking, IIRC, 3 cars off the lot--or was that the Bonneville =
cars?--hanging a few fancy bits on it and giving the bespoke Ferraris, =
Jags, Astons, Mercedeses etc. a run for their money (the Healeys' rugged =
simplicity likely helped). DMH was a brilliant marketer and salesman; he =
spotted the 'niche' hole between lower--performance MGs--we're talking =
TCs and TDs, not Bs and Cs--and higher-performance but much more =
expensive Jaguars and plugged it. History says he drove cross-county in =
the US to gauge the market; probably why he made overdrive an option =
from the get-go, for the wide-open US highways. I don't know Triumph =
history that well, was the TR2 a contemporary of the 100?<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">How many times have you been asked what your =
Healey is worth--usually by a 'not-a-car-person'--and you've replied =
'Whatever someone will pay me for it' (then, if the person seems =
genuinely interested I may give a run-down of the contemporary market; =
these days 'not so good'). It's the same with other marques; witness the =
number of Chevelle SS 'tribute' cars going across the block at auctions. =
Genuine Ms can command a 50-100% premium over comparable 100s; hence the =
intensity of the interest and critique. Did you watch the BaT auction? =
It was pretty savage and enlightening, to me; I was surprised Bill let =
the incorrect carbs and distributor slide (maybe he was tired of doing =
the registry thing).<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br=
 class=3D""><br class=3D"">=46rom the late, great Gary Anderson:<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/0=
3/The-Heritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://austinhealeyconcoursregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/201=
9/03/The-Heritage-of-the-100M-G.-Anderson.pdf</a><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">On 12/16/2023 6:46 AM, Michael =
Oritt wrote:</div><blockquote class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">Some feel =
that since DMH knew he was going to change over to a new car (the 100-6) =
he figured out a clever marketing&nbsp;ploy to get rid of what might =
otherwise have become a less-than-desirable&nbsp;inventory of late =
production 100's by outfitting some of the cars with the snazzy M =
upgrade.&nbsp; If so it was probably never his intention nor in his =
comprehension to produce&nbsp;what has ironically become a very special =
Healey second only to the 100-S in collectibility.</div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, =
255);">&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color: rgb(51, =
51, 255);">Best--Michael Oritt</div></div><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Sat, Dec =
16, 2023 at 1:31=E2=80=AFAM Bob Spidell &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; =
border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: =
rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class=3D"">The M was rated =
at 110HP--more if you got the optional branch extractor--as opposed to a =
stock BN2's 90HP. That's a 22% increase in power; I'd call that =
significant. Also, how do you 'hang' a camshaft and pistons on an engine =
(the mechanics were supposed to pull the engine, but if DMH and Geoff =
weren't around they'd cheat and do the mods in situ)?<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">I think at least part of the value of an M is that it made an =
appearance at the Healey factory, possibly with DMH and/or Geoff in =
attendance, as opposed to just coming off the Austin assembly line. =
Also, the modifications were, for the most part, the same as made to the =
cars that ran at LeMans in '52 ('53?) and came in 13th (or 14th) =
overall. When customers started asking for the same modifications DMH =
first sold a kit, then the complete car (anyone remember 'Race on =
Sunday, sell on Monday?').<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">I'd say the =
market has spoken, since genuine M cars command a significant price =
premium (hence why of the original, documented 640 cars only 3,000 =
remain).<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">bs<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">On 12/15/2023 2:16 PM, Michael Salter =
wrote:</div><blockquote class=3D""><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">I'm not =
an "M" guy really because as someone mentioned there isn't that much to =
hanging the "modification " parts on any 100.&nbsp;<div dir=3D"auto" =
class=3D"">If the "M" designation involved significant performance =
modifications,&nbsp; say like an "M" series BMW, which could not be =
easily copied, then I would consider them be very special.<div =
dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">I understand that Mr Meade has now sold his "M" =
so would not be surprised to see the "Registry" fade away.</div><div =
dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">Just my opinion.&nbsp;</div><div dir=3D"auto" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</div><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">M</div></div></div><br=
 class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"gmail_attr" =
dir=3D"ltr">On Fri., Dec. 15, 2023, 1:59 p.m. josef-eckert--- via =
Healeys, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; =
border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: =
rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class=3D""><pre dir=3D"ltr" =
style=3D"text-align: left;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"en" =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">What makes a 100M? Very good question and not easy to answer. =
In my opinion, an Austin-Healey 100M, especially as the price category =
is significantly higher than the normal 100, is a car that any =
modification reduces its value. A heavily modified 100M is nothing =
special. It's a modified 100 and no longer an M. But this is my personal =
opinion. A new chassis would be such a major modification for me, as =
would a conversion to disc brakes at the front or a conversion to a =
Weber carburettors, etc. This would be simply no longer a Genuine 100M. =
I would then rather buy an original Austin-Healey 100 for the same =
money. But I have to admit, for me the hype surrounding the 100M is far =
exaggerated for what the car is. It's a special model with a little more =
horsepower, but not anything particularly special. Its like an Alpina =
BMW or a AMG Mercedes. Josef Eckert Germany </span></pre><p =
style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: arial, =
helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; text-decoration: none;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p><p style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p><p style=3D"margin: =
0px;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</p><p style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</p><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D"">-----Original-Nachricht-----</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D"">Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT</div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">Datum: =
2023-12-15T18:07:16+0100</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">Von: =
"Bob Spidell" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D"">An: "HealeyRick" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</div><p style=3D"margin: 0px;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</p><p style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</p><p =
style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</p><div style=3D"font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: =
normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial, =
Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Note the Registry will also certify =
'Le Mans Conversions,' which may be what Kent's nasty is/was. Some have =
noted you can build a 'better M' with aftermarket parts (Isky cam, alloy =
head, SBC, etc.).<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">I don't think either Kilmartin or Jules makes =
a 100 chassis, but I'd be somewhat more sympathetic to that, but not so =
much hanging an M body and parts on a BN1 (a BN2,<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><em class=3D"">maybe</em>). =
The main problem I see is an earnest owner may sell a conversion (aka =
'counterfeit') with full disclosure, but an owner or two down the road =
the 'Tribute' tag has been conveniently forgotten (I'm not all in on =
'tribute' anything, be they cars or rock bands).<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">On 12/15/2023 7:17 AM, =
HealeyRick wrote:</div><blockquote class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"">This is all hypothesis based on speculation so take it with =
that caveat.&nbsp; Let's say one had a rusty factory 100M that was so =
bad it needed a new frame.&nbsp; How hard would it be to transfer the =
100M body parts over to a solid BN1 chassis along with the =
oh-so-valuable chassis plate? The 100M Registry seems to focus mostly on =
the original body parts and cockpit surrounds to certify a car. Even =
cars with non-original engines have been registered. I'm pretty certain =
Kent Lacy's Nasty M was on the registry. So is the BaT car still an =
M?&nbsp; Some pretty valuable race cars have been crashed and fitted =
with&nbsp;new chassis and still bring big money at auction.&nbsp;<div =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">To me, what makes an M an M is =
the motor.&nbsp; If an M no longer has its original motor, or equal =
replacement, it has lost its character as an M. Otherwise, it's a BN2 =
with a louvered hood. It's almost like if a Sunbeam Tiger blew its motor =
and it was replaced with an Alpine motor. Sure, it's got the right =
serial number on the unibody, but it's not much of a Tiger anymore. The =
BaT car with what appears to be non-original carbs and distributor =
caused me concern. Who would remove those from an original M motor? =
C'mon 100M sellers, pop the valve cover, remove the rockers and put a =
dial indicator on the pushrods so we can see if there is still a 100M =
cam in the lump!</div><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">&nbsp;</div><div =
class=3D"">Happy Healeydays,</div><div class=3D"">Rick =
Neville</div></div></div><br class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 1:05=E2=80=AFPM =
Bob Spidell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer"=
 target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; =
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div =
class=3D"">Excellent report, thank you.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">I was one of the commenters on BaT--I joined BaT to =
comment--but, since I have a BN2/100M I'm not familiar with BN1 =
differences and could only point out obvious differences with my car =
(which was completely original as far as I can tell, except for =
extensive body work). One thing that was somewhat disturbing to me is =
that the Registry certified this car, while noting some major anomalies =
(the carbs, for instance, looked to be new and didn't have the hand =
scribing like my car).<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">The other thing that interested me is, how do you value this =
car? Yes, it's a very nice car, probably a good driver but, IMO, its =
value<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><em =
class=3D"">should</em><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>be less than a comparably =
restored, original BN1 or BN2. And, what did the previous owner know, or =
should have known about this car? How do you present it for sale; as a =
BN1 with 'M bits?' It would need the proverbial asterisk alongside the =
page title.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Bob<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">On 12/14/2023 =
8:15 AM, S and T Miller wrote:</div><blockquote class=3D""><div =
style=3D"font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; color: inherit; =
background-color: transparent;" class=3D""><div class=3D"">If you were =
following it recently,&nbsp; you might find my observations =
interesting.&nbsp; So I went down to Michael's motor cars to help him =
determine if the 100m indeed has a BN1 chassis. Here is what I =
found.</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">It has the BN1 =
inner fenders with the rolled pressings. It has the BN1 front brake hose =
frame mount the is less pronounced welded BN1 bracket, as the later cars =
have a bolted on bracket. The front shock towers have no evidence of =
being replaced and show the factory welds. The gearbox mount shows =
non-original/factory welds as if it were replaced to accommodate the BN2 =
mount.&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">What I =
found most interesting is that where a BN1 has two OD relays mounted =
under the dash, it took shining a light it different directions to just =
make out the slight evidence of filled holes (4 of then for the two =
relays). And I was able to reach inside the vent just below that area =
with my fingers and feel the welds and welding wire that was used to =
fill those 4 holes. I can tell you someone took great care to try and =
make those holes seem as they never existed.&nbsp; Along with that, =
where a BN2 would have the single OD relay attached to the firewall with =
machine screws screwed into welded captive nuts on the firewall,&nbsp; =
you can see plain sheet screws were used to mount it in what would be a =
BN2 relay position.&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp;</div><div =
class=3D"">I also feel the engine tag is a repo because of the lighter =
stamping. Originals tend to have the numbers/ letters stamped with a =
deeper end result.&nbsp; I took my repo engine tag along to compare, and =
they appeared identical in the stampings. The body/ bath tag and VIN =
plate appear original. Now that doesn't mean that the engine isn't the =
correct M engine, because there could be many reasons why the engine tag =
was replaced. Anyone who drove a stock 100 compared to a 100M can attest =
to the difference in power, and Mike stated that it indeed has that M =
power.&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">The boot =
lid shows no evidence of the stay bracket being swapped off another lid, =
and if you look closely you can see that the boot shows some previous =
age/life. I'd believe it to be original. I could not make out any =
evidence of the bonnet number being sliced in from a M bonnet, but I =
will say that the underside of the bonnet seemed suspiciously clean and =
prestine. I couldn't detect any age like the boot, but that would be for =
someone else to decide.&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp;</div><div =
class=3D"">Mike had asked me if the cold air box was original,&nbsp; and =
I simply don't have that experience to know. I have anyways heard if it =
looks old, it's original.&nbsp; It does indeed look to have some age, =
so?</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">I feel at some =
point in this car's life someone went to some effort to try and conceal =
that these 100M parts were reinstalled on a BN1 chassis. Another =
interesting note is that there was an attempt to fill the holes where a =
BN1 chassis plate is fitted on the frame rail. Perhaps the person didn't =
realize that the holes continued over to the BN2's, and thought they =
were erasing evidence of a BN1 chassis?&nbsp;</div><div =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">With all that said, Mike is =
simply trying to represent the car correctly. The car is a very nice =
car! Paint is very nice, car is straight, and gaps look good. Interior =
is very nice, and looks to be a very good car all around. I didn't drive =
the car, but Mike has years of experience under his belt, so I'd trust =
his opinions on that. With the quality of the restoration,&nbsp; it is =
surprising that the front frame to shroud brackets were not welded to =
the frame. Chrome looks good, and I'd think winning some trophies at a =
popular vote car would not be an issue.&nbsp;</div></div><div =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">The Millers<br class=3D"">&nbsp;<br=
 class=3D"">"Always drive them, but remember each drive in an antique =
car is a test =
drive."</div></blockquote></div>__________________________________________=
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