Subject: Re: [Healeys] 100 lifters

From: Curtis Arndt via Healeys <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2021 18:15:52 -0700

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Michael,  all I know is that before he passed away, Denis Welch said he'd
buy EVERY Buick lifter I could get for him.  He obviously liked them.

On Tue, Aug 3, 2021, 17:20 Michael Salter via Healeys <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> After only 6000 miles the NOS BMC lifters that I installed in my engine
> with a very low mileage "M" cam have started to deteriorate.
> This engine has had a steady diet of VR1 non synthetic and it has had 4
> changes in 6K miles.
> Very disappointing.
> I'm  considering trying bucket type Buick lifters with longer push rods
> and a new cam.
> Does anyone have experience with the durability of the old Buick lifters
> ... getting a little desperate here.
> Fortunately I caught this issue before it ruined the engine.
>
> M
> _______________________________________________
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<div dir=3D"auto">Michael,=C2=A0 all I know is that before he passed away, =
Denis Welch said he&#39;d buy EVERY Buick lifter I could get for him.=C2=A0=
 He obviously liked them.</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"l=
tr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Aug 3, 2021, 17:20 Michael Salter via Heal=
eys &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a=
>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0=
 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">Afte=
r only 6000 miles the NOS BMC lifters that I installed in my engine with a =
very low mileage &quot;M&quot; cam have started to deteriorate.=C2=A0<div d=
ir=3D"auto">This engine has had a steady diet of VR1 non synthetic and it h=
as had 4 changes in 6K miles.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto">Very disappointi=
ng.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto">I&#39;m=C2=A0 considering trying bucket ty=
pe Buick lifters with longer push rods and a new cam.</div><div dir=3D"auto=
">Does anyone have experience with the durability of the old Buick lifters =
... getting a little desperate here.</div><div dir=3D"auto">Fortunately I c=
aught this issue before it ruined the engine.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></=
div><div dir=3D"auto">M</div></div>
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From: "Jim Wojcik" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2021 21:01:42 -0500

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I too was shocked at the rapid changes to my new lifters post-rebuild. =
Put in a new set, used an endoscope to check the cam, and dosed with ZDP =
thereafter, which seemed in this non-scientific experiment. Jim Wojcik, =
(former BN7) MN

=20

From: Healeys <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of Curtis Arndt =
via Healeys
Sent: Tuesday, August 3, 2021 8:16 PM
To: Michael Salter <[email-masked]>
Cc: Healey List <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Healeys] 100 lifters

=20

Michael,  all I know is that before he passed away, Denis Welch said =
he'd buy EVERY Buick lifter I could get for him.  He obviously liked =
them.

=20

On Tue, Aug 3, 2021, 17:20 Michael Salter via Healeys =

After only 6000 miles the NOS BMC lifters that I installed in my engine =
with a very low mileage "M" cam have started to deteriorate.=20

This engine has had a steady diet of VR1 non synthetic and it has had 4 =
changes in 6K miles.=20

Very disappointing.=20

I'm  considering trying bucket type Buick lifters with longer push rods =
and a new cam.

Does anyone have experience with the durability of the old Buick lifters =
... getting a little desperate here.

=20

M

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
http://autox.team.net/archive

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'word-wrap:break-word'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>I too was shocked at the rapid =
changes to my new lifters post-rebuild. Put in a new set, used an =
endoscope to check the cam, and dosed with ZDP thereafter, which seemed =
in this non-scientific experiment. Jim Wojcik, (former BN7) =
MN<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Healeys =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>Curtis Arndt =
via Healeys<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 3, 2021 8:16 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> Michael Salter =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> Healey List =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] 100 =
lifters<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Michael,&nbsp; all I know is that before he passed =
away, Denis Welch said he'd buy EVERY Buick lifter I could get for =
him.&nbsp; He obviously liked them.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
Tue, Aug 3, 2021, 17:20 Michael Salter via Healeys &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>After only 6000 miles the NOS BMC lifters that I =
installed in my engine with a very low mileage &quot;M&quot; cam have =
started to deteriorate.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>This engine has had a steady diet of VR1 non synthetic =
and it has had 4 changes in 6K miles.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Very disappointing.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>I'm&nbsp; considering trying bucket type Buick lifters =
with longer push rods and a new cam.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Does anyone have experience with the durability of the =
old Buick lifters ... getting a little desperate =
here.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Fortunately I caught =
this issue before it ruined the engine.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>M<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>__________________________________________=
_____<br>Support Team.Net <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Suggested =
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[email-masked]

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From: Steven Kingsbury via Healeys <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2021 14:47:47 -0000 MailServer2114B145.10000-Famine2114-0-e974fb3d8428

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I just rebuilt my 100 engine and purchased my lifters from AH Spares in th=
e UK. These were their new design for better oil flow. I now have 1000 mil=
es or so on the new engine and once I got my problems figured out with my =
distributor, the car is running well and smooth.=0A=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Now I=
'm wondering when the other shoe is going to drop! What problems did you h=
ave pointing you to the lifters as the source of those problems? When I re=
torqued the head, I readjusted the rockers and found no problems. They wer=
e a little off, but I expected a little.=0A=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0What should I=
 be looking for? I used Driven Break In oil and then I switched to VR1 lik=
e you after 500 miles. I have been driving the car to build up some trust =
in it and it's turning in to a joy to drive. I've got M mods on this engin=
e, cam, H6 carbs, M pistons and these new lifters. So far, so good.=C2=A0=0A=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Thanks for your help,=0ASteven Kingsbury=0ABN1=0A=0AOn A=
ugust 3, 2021 at 5:19 PM, Michael Salter via Healeys <[email-masked]=
et> wrote:=0A=0A=0AAfter only 6000 miles the NOS BMC lifters that I instal=
led in my engine with a very low mileage "M" cam have started to deteriora=
te.=C2=A0=0AThis engine has had a steady diet of VR1 non synthetic and it =
has had 4 changes in 6K miles.=C2=A0=0AVery disappointing.=C2=A0=0AI'm=C2=A0=
 considering trying bucket type Buick lifters with longer push rods and a =
new cam.=0ADoes anyone have experience with the durability of the old Buic=
k lifters ... getting a little desperate here.=0AFortunately I caught this=
 issue before it ruined the engine.=0A=0A=0AM=0A__________________________=
_____________________=0ASupport Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html=0A=
il/healeys http://autox.team.net/archive=0A=[email-masked]=0Ahtt=
p://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys=0A=0AUnsubscribe/Manage: http:=
//autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]=0A=
=0A
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<html><body><div>I just rebuilt my 100 engine and purchased my lifters from AH Spares =
in the UK. These were their new design for better oil flow. I now have 100=
0 miles or so on the new engine and once I got my problems figured out wit=
h my distributor, the car is running well and smooth.</div><div>&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;Now I'm wondering when the other shoe is going to drop! What probl=
ems did you have pointing you to the lifters as the source of those proble=
ms? When I retorqued the head, I readjusted the rockers and found no probl=
ems. They were a little off, but I expected a little.</div><div>&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;What should I be looking for? I used Driven Break In oil and then =
I switched to VR1 like you after 500 miles. I have been driving the car to=
 build up some trust in it and it's turning in to a joy to drive. I've got=
 M mods on this engine, cam, H6 carbs, M pistons and these new lifters. So=
 far, so good.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Thanks for your help,</di=
v><div>Steven Kingsbury</div><div>BN1</div><div><br>On August 3, 2021 at 5=
:19 PM, Michael Salter via Healeys &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<b=
r><br></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div class=3D"msg-quote"><div d=
ir=3D"auto">After only 6000 miles the NOS BMC lifters that I installed in =
my engine with a very low mileage "M" cam have started to deteriorate.&nbs=
p;<div dir=3D"auto">This engine has had a steady diet of VR1 non synthetic=
 and it has had 4 changes in 6K miles.&nbsp;</div><div dir=3D"auto">Very d=
isappointing.&nbsp;</div><div dir=3D"auto">I'm&nbsp; considering trying bu=
cket type Buick lifters with longer push rods and a new cam.</div><div dir=
=3D"auto">Does anyone have experience with the durability of the old Buick=
 lifters ... getting a little desperate here.</div><div dir=3D"auto">Fortu=
nately I caught this issue before it ruined the engine.</div><div dir=3D"a=
uto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">M</div></div><div class=3D"_stretch"><spa=
n class=3D"body-text-content">____________________________________________=
___<br>Support <a href=3D"http://Team.Net" data-mce-href=3D"http://Team.Ne=
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uggested annual donation $12.75<br><br>Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team=
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[email-masked]

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From: Stephen Hutchings via Healeys <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2021 11:08:18 -0400

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I had my cam ground by someone that Michael recommended in the Toronto =
area, and they sent me to another place to have the lifters re-surfaced =
and hardened.
So, after this, I now have about the same number of miles on my engine =
(6000), so , while I=E2=80=99ve had no problems, I=E2=80=99m thinking I =
should take apart the valve gear and look at the lifters=E2=80=A6I=E2=80=99=
m wondering what led to your investigation of the lifters, Michael?

Stephen, BJ8

> On Aug 4, 2021, at 10:47 AM, Steven Kingsbury via Healeys =
<[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> I just rebuilt my 100 engine and purchased my lifters from AH Spares =
in the UK. These were their new design for better oil flow. I now have =
1000 miles or so on the new engine and once I got my problems figured =
out with my distributor, the car is running well and smooth.
>    Now I'm wondering when the other shoe is going to drop! What =
problems did you have pointing you to the lifters as the source of those =
problems? When I retorqued the head, I readjusted the rockers and found =
no problems. They were a little off, but I expected a little.
>    What should I be looking for? I used Driven Break In oil and then I =
switched to VR1 like you after 500 miles. I have been driving the car to =
build up some trust in it and it's turning in to a joy to drive. I've =
got M mods on this engine, cam, H6 carbs, M pistons and these new =
lifters. So far, so good.=20
>    Thanks for your help,
> Steven Kingsbury
> BN1
>=20
> On August 3, 2021 at 5:19 PM, Michael Salter via Healeys =
<[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
>> After only 6000 miles the NOS BMC lifters that I installed in my =
engine with a very low mileage "M" cam have started to deteriorate.=20
>> This engine has had a steady diet of VR1 non synthetic and it has had =
4 changes in 6K miles.=20
>> Very disappointing.=20
>> I'm  considering trying bucket type Buick lifters with longer push =
rods and a new cam.
>> Does anyone have experience with the durability of the old Buick =
lifters ... getting a little desperate here.
>> Support Team.Net <http://team.net/> http://www.team.net/donate.html =
<http://www.team.net/donate.html>
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
<http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys> http://autox.team.net/archive =
<http://autox.team.net/archive>
>>=20
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys =
<http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]=
om =
<http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/airtightproductions@icloud.=
com>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">I =
had my cam ground by someone that Michael recommended in the Toronto =
area, and they sent me to another place to have the lifters re-surfaced =
and hardened.<div class=3D"">So, after this, I now have about the same =
number of miles on my engine (6000), so , while I=E2=80=99ve had no =
problems, I=E2=80=99m thinking I should take apart the valve gear and =
look at the lifters=E2=80=A6I=E2=80=99m wondering what led to your =
investigation of the lifters, Michael?</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Stephen, BJ8<br class=3D""><div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Aug =
4, 2021, at 10:47 AM, Steven Kingsbury via Healeys &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">I just rebuilt my 100 engine and purchased my lifters from AH =
Spares in the UK. These were their new design for better oil flow. I now =
have 1000 miles or so on the new engine and once I got my problems =
figured out with my distributor, the car is running well and =
smooth.</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Now I'm wondering when =
the other shoe is going to drop! What problems did you have pointing you =
to the lifters as the source of those problems? When I retorqued the =
head, I readjusted the rockers and found no problems. They were a little =
off, but I expected a little.</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;What =
should I be looking for? I used Driven Break In oil and then I switched =
to VR1 like you after 500 miles. I have been driving the car to build up =
some trust in it and it's turning in to a joy to drive. I've got M mods =
on this engine, cam, H6 carbs, M pistons and these new lifters. So far, =
so good.&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Thanks for your =
help,</div><div class=3D"">Steven Kingsbury</div><div =
class=3D"">BN1</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D"">On August 3, 2021 at =
5:19 PM, Michael Salter via Healeys &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div=
 class=3D"msg-quote"><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">After only 6000 miles =
the NOS BMC lifters that I installed in my engine with a very low =
mileage "M" cam have started to deteriorate.&nbsp;<div dir=3D"auto" =
class=3D"">This engine has had a steady diet of VR1 non synthetic and it =
has had 4 changes in 6K miles.&nbsp;</div><div dir=3D"auto" =
class=3D"">Very disappointing.&nbsp;</div><div dir=3D"auto" =
class=3D"">I'm&nbsp; considering trying bucket type Buick lifters with =
longer push rods and a new cam.</div><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">Does =
anyone have experience with the durability of the old Buick lifters ... =
getting a little desperate here.</div><div dir=3D"auto" =
class=3D"">Fortunately I caught this issue before it ruined the =
engine.</div><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">M</div></div><div class=3D"_stretch"><span =
class=3D"body-text-content">______________________________________________=
_<br class=3D"">Support <a href=3D"http://team.net/" =
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[email-masked]

--===============7732076565630812250==--

---

From: Michael MacLean <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2021 08:34:19 -0700

--===============3956952702012109464==

--000000000000befe4b05c8bd8938
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I just finished the rebuild of my BN2 engine.  I used Denis Welch lifters.
They have the channel machined on the side of the lifter for better oil
flow back to the pan.  I would think these lifters would be hardened
correctly.  Oh, boy, something else to worry about when I get this engine
up and running.
Mike MacLean

On Wed, Aug 4, 2021 at 8:08 AM Stephen Hutchings via Healeys <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> I had my cam ground by someone that Michael recommended in the Toronto
> area, and they sent me to another place to have the lifters re-surfaced a=
nd
> hardened.
> So, after this, I now have about the same number of miles on my engine
> (6000), so , while I=E2=80=99ve had no problems, I=E2=80=99m thinking I s=
hould take apart
> the valve gear and look at the lifters=E2=80=A6I=E2=80=99m wondering what=
 led to your
> investigation of the lifters, Michael?
>
> Stephen, BJ8
>
> On Aug 4, 2021, at 10:47 AM, Steven Kingsbury via Healeys <
> I just rebuilt my 100 engine and purchased my lifters from AH Spares in
> the UK. These were their new design for better oil flow. I now have 1000
> miles or so on the new engine and once I got my problems figured out with
> my distributor, the car is running well and smooth.
>    Now I'm wondering when the other shoe is going to drop! What problems
> did you have pointing you to the lifters as the source of those problems?
> When I retorqued the head, I readjusted the rockers and found no problems=
.
> They were a little off, but I expected a little.
>    What should I be looking for? I used Driven Break In oil and then I
> switched to VR1 like you after 500 miles. I have been driving the car to
 M
> mods on this engine, cam, H6 carbs, M pistons and these new lifters. So
> far, so good.
>    Thanks for your help,
> Steven Kingsbury
> BN1
>
> On August 3, 2021 at 5:19 PM, Michael Salter via Healeys <
> Support Team.Net <http://team.net/> http://www.team.net/donate.html
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/airtightproductions@icloud.=
com
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]
>
>

--000000000000befe4b05c8bd8938
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I just finished the rebuild of my BN2 engine.=C2=A0 I=
 used Denis Welch lifters.=C2=A0 They have the channel machined on the side=
 of the lifter for better oil flow back to the pan.=C2=A0 I would think the=
se lifters would be hardened correctly.=C2=A0 Oh, boy, something else to wo=
rry about when I get this engine up and running.</div><div>Mike MacLean<br>=
</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_=
attr">On Wed, Aug 4, 2021 at 8:08 AM Stephen Hutchings via Healeys &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:=
<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8=
ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"o=
verflow-wrap: break-word;">I had my cam ground by someone that Michael reco=
mmended in the Toronto area, and they sent me to another place to have the =
lifters re-surfaced and hardened.<div>So, after this, I now have about the =
same number of miles on my engine (6000), so , while I=E2=80=99ve had no pr=
oblems, I=E2=80=99m thinking I should take apart the valve gear and look at=
 the lifters=E2=80=A6I=E2=80=99m wondering what led to your investigation o=
f the lifters, Michael?</div><div><br></div><div>Stephen, BJ8<br><div><br><=
blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On Aug 4, 2021, at 10:47 AM, Steven Kingsbury=
 via Healeys &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank=
">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br><div><div><div>I just rebu=
ilt my 100 engine and purchased my lifters from AH Spares in the UK. These =
were their new design for better oil flow. I now have 1000 miles or so on t=
he new engine and once I got my problems figured out with my distributor, t=
he car is running well and smooth.</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Now I&#39;m =
wondering when the other shoe is going to drop! What problems did you have =
pointing you to the lifters as the source of those problems? When I retorqu=
ed the head, I readjusted the rockers and found no problems. They were a li=
ttle off, but I expected a little.</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0What should =
I be looking for? I used Driven Break In oil and then I switched to VR1 lik=
e you after 500 miles. I have been driving the car to build up some trust i=
n it and it&#39;s turning in to a joy to drive. I&#39;ve got M mods on this=
 engine, cam, H6 carbs, M pistons and these new lifters. So far, so good.=
=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Thanks for your help,</div><div>Steven K=
ingsbury</div><div>BN1</div><div><br>On August 3, 2021 at 5:19 PM, Michael =
Salter via Healeys &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"=
_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><div><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"auto">After only 6000 miles the NOS BMC lif=
ters that I installed in my engine with a very low mileage &quot;M&quot; ca=
m have started to deteriorate.=C2=A0<div dir=3D"auto">This engine has had a=
 steady diet of VR1 non synthetic and it has had 4 changes in 6K miles.=C2=
=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto">Very disappointing.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"=
>I&#39;m=C2=A0 considering trying bucket type Buick lifters with longer pus=
h rods and a new cam.</div><div dir=3D"auto">Does anyone have experience wi=
th the durability of the old Buick lifters ... getting a little desperate h=
ere.</div><div dir=3D"auto">Fortunately I caught this issue before it ruine=
d the engine.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">M</div></d=
iv><div><span>_______________________________________________<br>Support <a=
 href=3D"http://team.net/" target=3D"_blank">Team.Net</a> <a href=3D"http:/=
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[email-masked]

--===============3956952702012109464==--

---

From: Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2021 08:49:10 -0700

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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--------------2C04EAF81B19EE6B6921B5CA
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re: "Denis Welch said he'd buy EVERY Buick lifter I could get for him."

Was this before, or after, DWM started offering their own bucket lifters?

My BJ8 has a DWM gun-drilled cam, with 'standard' lifters (kinda wish 
I'd gone with the buckets). Anyone seeing any issues with this gear?

Bob

On 8/3/2021 6:15 PM, Curtis Arndt via Healeys wrote:
> Michael,  all I know is that before he passed away, Denis Welch said 
> he'd buy EVERY Buick lifter I could get for him.  He obviously liked them.
>
> On Tue, Aug 3, 2021, 17:20 Michael Salter via Healeys 
>
>     After only 6000 miles the NOS BMC lifters that I installed in my
>     engine with a very low mileage "M" cam have started to deteriorate.
>     This engine has had a steady diet of VR1 non synthetic and it has
>     had 4 changes in 6K miles.
>     Very disappointing.
>     I'm  considering trying bucket type Buick lifters with longer push
>     rods and a new cam.
>     Does anyone have experience with the durability of the old Buick

--------------2C04EAF81B19EE6B6921B5CA
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<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body>
    re: "Denis Welch said he'd buy EVERY Buick lifter I could get for
    him."<br>
    <br>
    Was this before, or after, DWM started offering their own bucket
    lifters?<br>
    <br>
    My BJ8 has a DWM gun-drilled cam, with 'standard' lifters (kinda
    wish I'd gone with the buckets). Anyone seeing any issues with this
    gear?<br>
    <br>
    Bob<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/3/2021 6:15 PM, Curtis Arndt via
      Healeys wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="auto">Michael,  all I know is that before he passed
        away, Denis Welch said he'd buy EVERY Buick lifter I could get
        for him.  He obviously liked them.</div>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Aug 3, 2021, 17:20
          Michael Salter via Healeys &lt;<a
            href="mailto:[email-masked]" moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
          wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
          .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
          <div dir="auto">After only 6000 miles the NOS BMC lifters that
            I installed in my engine with a very low mileage "M" cam
            have started to deteriorate. 
            <div dir="auto">This engine has had a steady diet of VR1 non
              synthetic and it has had 4 changes in 6K miles. </div>
            <div dir="auto">Very disappointing. </div>
            <div dir="auto">I'm  considering trying bucket type Buick
              lifters with longer push rods and a new cam.</div>
            <div dir="auto">Does anyone have experience with the
              durability of the old Buick lifters ... getting a little
              desperate here.</div>
            <div dir="auto">Fortunately I caught this issue before it
              ruined the engine.</div>
            <div dir="auto"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="auto">M</div>
          </div>
          <br>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>

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[email-masked]

--===============6165307760092171554==--

---

From: Michael Salter <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 08:39:37 -0400

--===============7243082075621817409==

--000000000000f9852505c8cf363a

The first sign of problems was having to adjust the tappets which had
initially been silent after 2000 miles and then again at 4500.
After adjusting they were still audible and had previously been silent.
Then at the 2000 and 4000 mile oil changes there was "fir" in the drain
plug magnet.
I'm very disappointed to have destroyed a very low mileage "M" cam and a
set of NOS lifters that I had been saving for decades.
I'm seriously considering having silicon nitride lifters manufactured but
at over $1000 a set its a serious investment.

M

On Wed., Aug. 4, 2021, 10:47 a.m. Steven Kingsbury, <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> When I retorqued the head, I readjusted the rockers and found no problems.
> build up some trust in it and it's turning in to a joy to drive. I've got M
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]
>
>

--000000000000f9852505c8cf363a
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"auto">The first sign of problems was having to adjust the tappe=
ts which had initially been silent after 2000 miles and then again at 4500.=
<div dir=3D"auto">After adjusting they were still audible and had previousl=
y been silent.</div><div dir=3D"auto">Then at the 2000 and 4000 mile oil ch=
anges there was &quot;fir&quot; in the drain plug magnet.</div><div dir=3D"=
auto">I&#39;m very disappointed to have destroyed a very low mileage &quot;=
M&quot; cam and a set of NOS lifters that I had been saving for decades.</d=
iv><div dir=3D"auto">I&#39;m seriously considering having silicon nitride l=
ifters manufactured but at over $1000 a set its a serious investment.</div>=
<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">M</div></div><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed., Aug. 4, 202=
1, 10:47 a.m. Steven Kingsbury, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:airtightproductions@i=
cloud.com">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquo=
te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc so=
lid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div>I just rebuilt my 100 engine and purchased =
my lifters from AH Spares in the UK. These were their new design for better=
 oil flow. I now have 1000 miles or so on the new engine and once I got my =
problems figured out with my distributor, the car is running well and smoot=
h.</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Now I&#39;m wondering when the other shoe is=
 going to drop! What problems did you have pointing you to the lifters as t=
he source of those problems? When I retorqued the head, I readjusted the ro=
ckers and found no problems. They were a little off, but I expected a littl=
e.</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0What should I be looking for? I used Driven =
Break In oil and then I switched to VR1 like you after 500 miles. I have be=
en driving the car to build up some trust in it and it&#39;s turning in to =
a joy to drive. I&#39;ve got M mods on this engine, cam, H6 carbs, M piston=
s and these new lifters. So far, so good.=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0Thanks for your help,</div><div>Steven Kingsbury</div><div>BN1</div><div=
><br>On August 3, 2021 at 5:19 PM, Michael Salter via Healeys &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">hea=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><div><blockquote type=3D"ci=
te"><div><div dir=3D"auto">After only 6000 miles the NOS BMC lifters that I=
 installed in my engine with a very low mileage &quot;M&quot; cam have star=
ted to deteriorate.=C2=A0<div dir=3D"auto">This engine has had a steady die=
t of VR1 non synthetic and it has had 4 changes in 6K miles.=C2=A0</div><di=
v dir=3D"auto">Very disappointing.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto">I&#39;m=C2=
=A0 considering trying bucket type Buick lifters with longer push rods and =
a new cam.</div><div dir=3D"auto">Does anyone have experience with the dura=
bility of the old Buick lifters ... getting a little desperate here.</div><=
div dir=3D"auto">Fortunately I caught this issue before it ruined the engin=
e.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">M</div></div><div><sp=
an>_______________________________________________<br>Support <a href=3D"ht=
tp://Team.Net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">Team.Net</a> <a href=3D=
"http://www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">http=
://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Suggested annual donation $12.75<br><br>=
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys" target=3D"_blank=
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/[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">http:=
//autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]</a>=
<br><br></span></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div>

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[email-masked]

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From: Steven Kingsbury via Healeys <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2021 14:49:20 -0000 MailServer2114B145.10000-Famine2114-0-e974fb3d8428

--===============4228653734948878137==

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Thanks for the feedback. My tappets have never been silent. They have alwa=
ys made noise and though not as loud as my '68 MGB/GT that I had, they're =
not quiet. And after having adjusted them when I retorqued the head at 500=
 mile mark, they still weren't silent. They sound like my old BN1 did. And=
 because I have louvered bonnet on this car, they seem even a bit louder, =
but with the bonnet up and running in the garage, they sound almost exactl=
y like my old car. Now when I'm out driving they seem pretty silent and th=
e engine runs very smooth.=0A=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0As for "fir" in the oil. Wh=
en I drained my engine at the 500 mile mark, I ran all of the oil through =
a fine, paint filter and then used a magnet in the filter. Nothing appeare=
d on the magnet. I also took the magnet and ran it through the oil before =
I poured it through the filter, and again nothing. I even ran the magnet t=
hrough the empty drain pan after transferring the oil, and again, nothing.=
=0A=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Sorry to hear about your troubles and thank you for t=
he tips on what to listen for and what to look for. Good luck with whateve=
r you decide to do. And just to be clear, these lifters you used are not t=
he new "new" ones available through AH Spares. Rather they are New Old Sto=
ck ones that have been in you possession for quite a while now, right?=C2=A0=
=0A=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Again, good luck and hopefully the cam isn't complete=
ly destroyed and you caught it in time.=C2=A0=0AThanks!=0ASteven=0A=0AOn A=
ugust 5, 2021 at 5:39 AM, Michael Salter <[email-masked]> wrote:=0A=
=0A=0AThe first sign of problems was having to adjust the tappets which ha=
d initially been silent after 2000 miles and then again at 4500.=0AAfter a=
djusting they were still audible and had previously been silent.=0AThen at=
 the 2000 and 4000 mile oil changes there was "fir" in the drain plug magn=
et.=0AI'm very disappointed to have destroyed a very low mileage "M" cam a=
nd a set of NOS lifters that I had been saving for decades.=0AI'm seriousl=
y considering having silicon nitride lifters manufactured but at over $100=
0 a set its a serious investment.=0A=0A=0AM=0A=0A=0AOn Wed., Aug. 4, 2021,=
 10:47 a.m. Steven Kingsbury, <[email-masked]> wrote:=0A=0A=
I just rebuilt my 100 engine and purchased my lifters from AH Spares in th=
e UK. These were their new design for better oil flow. I now have 1000 mil=
es or so on the new engine and once I got my problems figured out with my =
distributor, the car is running well and smooth.=0A=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Now I=
'm wondering when the other shoe is going to drop! What problems did you h=
ave pointing you to the lifters as the source of those problems? When I re=
torqued the head, I readjusted the rockers and found no problems. They wer=
e a little off, but I expected a little.=0A=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0What should I=
 be looking for? I used Driven Break In oil and then I switched to VR1 lik=
e you after 500 miles. I have been driving the car to build up some trust =
in it and it's turning in to a joy to drive. I've got M mods on this engin=
e, cam, H6 carbs, M pistons and these new lifters. So far, so good.=C2=A0=0A=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Thanks for your help,=0ASteven Kingsbury=0ABN1=0A=0AOn A=
ugust 3, 2021 at 5:19 PM, Michael Salter via Healeys <[email-masked]=
et> wrote:=0A=0A=0AAfter only 6000 miles the NOS BMC lifters that I instal=
led in my engine with a very low mileage "M" cam have started to deteriora=
te.=C2=A0=0AThis engine has had a steady diet of VR1 non synthetic and it =
has had 4 changes in 6K miles.=C2=A0=0AVery disappointing.=C2=A0=0AI'm=C2=A0=
 considering trying bucket type Buick lifters with longer push rods and a =
new cam.=0ADoes anyone have experience with the durability of the old Buic=
k lifters ... getting a little desperate here.=0AFortunately I caught this=
 issue before it ruined the engine.=0A=0A=0AM=0A__________________________=
_____________________=0ASupport Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html=0A=
il/healeys http://autox.team.net/archive=0A=[email-masked]=0Ahtt=
p://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys=0A=0AUnsubscribe/Manage: http:=
//autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]=0A=
=0A
--Apple-Webmail-42--0471c28c-aea9-4b5f-9e60-54637384b0e9
    charset=utf-8;
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><body><div>Thanks for the feedback. My tappets have never been silent. They have=
 always made noise and though not as loud as my '68 MGB/GT that I had, the=
y're not quiet. And after having adjusted them when I retorqued the head a=
t 500 mile mark, they still weren't silent. They sound like my old BN1 did=
. And because I have louvered bonnet on this car, they seem even a bit lou=
der, but with the bonnet up and running in the garage, they sound almost e=
xactly like my old car. Now when I'm out driving they seem pretty silent a=
nd the engine runs very smooth.</div><div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;As for "fir" i=
n the oil. When I drained my engine at the 500 mile mark, I ran all of the=
 oil through a fine, paint filter and then used a magnet in the filter. No=
thing appeared on the magnet. I also took the magnet and ran it through th=
e oil before I poured it through the filter, and again nothing. I even ran=
 the magnet through the empty drain pan after transferring the oil, and ag=
ain, nothing.</div><div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Sorry to hear about your trouble=
s and thank you for the tips on what to listen for and what to look for. G=
ood luck with whatever you decide to do. And just to be clear, these lifte=
rs you used are not the new "new" ones available through AH Spares. Rather=
 they are New Old Stock ones that have been in you possession for quite a =
while now, right?&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Again, good luck and h=
opefully the cam isn't completely destroyed and you caught it in time.&nbs=
p;</div><div>Thanks!</div><div>Steven</div><div><br>On August 5, 2021 at 5=
:39 AM, Michael Salter &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><br></div=
><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div class=3D"msg-quote"><div dir=3D"auto"=
>The first sign of problems was having to adjust the tappets which had ini=
tially been silent after 2000 miles and then again at 4500.<div dir=3D"aut=
o">After adjusting they were still audible and had previously been silent.=
</div><div dir=3D"auto">Then at the 2000 and 4000 mile oil changes there w=
as "fir" in the drain plug magnet.</div><div dir=3D"auto">I'm very disappo=
inted to have destroyed a very low mileage "M" cam and a set of NOS lifter=
s that I had been saving for decades.</div><div dir=3D"auto">I'm seriously=
 considering having silicon nitride lifters manufactured but at over $1000=
 a set its a serious investment.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"auto">M</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"gmail_=
attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Wed., Aug. 4, 2021, 10:47 a.m. Steven Kingsbury, &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" data-mce-href=3D"mailto:=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wro=
te:<br></div><blockquote style=3D"margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #cc=
c solid; padding-left: 1ex;" class=3D"gmail_quote" data-mce-style=3D"margi=
n: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;"><div><div>=
I just rebuilt my 100 engine and purchased my lifters from AH Spares in th=
e UK. These were their new design for better oil flow. I now have 1000 mil=
es or so on the new engine and once I got my problems figured out with my =
distributor, the car is running well and smooth.</div><div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;Now I'm wondering when the other shoe is going to drop! What problems d=
id you have pointing you to the lifters as the source of those problems? W=
hen I retorqued the head, I readjusted the rockers and found no problems. =
They were a little off, but I expected a little.</div><div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;What should I be looking for? I used Driven Break In oil and then I swi=
tched to VR1 like you after 500 miles. I have been driving the car to buil=
d up some trust in it and it's turning in to a joy to drive. I've got M mo=
ds on this engine, cam, H6 carbs, M pistons and these new lifters. So far,=
 so good.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Thanks for your help,</div><di=
v>Steven Kingsbury</div><div>BN1</div><div><br>On August 3, 2021 at 5:19 P=
M, Michael Salter via Healeys &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
" data-mce-href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</=
a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D=
"auto">After only 6000 miles the NOS BMC lifters that I installed in my en=
gine with a very low mileage "M" cam have started to deteriorate.&nbsp;<di=
v dir=3D"auto">This engine has had a steady diet of VR1 non synthetic and =
it has had 4 changes in 6K miles.&nbsp;</div><div dir=3D"auto">Very disapp=
ointing.&nbsp;</div><div dir=3D"auto">I'm&nbsp; considering trying bucket =
type Buick lifters with longer push rods and a new cam.</div><div dir=3D"a=
uto">Does anyone have experience with the durability of the old Buick lift=
ers ... getting a little desperate here.</div><div dir=3D"auto">Fortunatel=
y I caught this issue before it ruined the engine.</div><div dir=3D"auto">=
<br></div><div dir=3D"auto">M</div></div><div><span>______________________=
_________________________<br>Support <a href=3D"http://Team.Net" data-mce-=
href=3D"http://Team.Net">Team.Net</a> <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donat=
e.html" data-mce-href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.=
net/donate.html</a><br>Suggested annual donation $12.75<br><br>Archive: <a=
 href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys" data-mce-href=3D"http://ww=
w.team.net/pipermail/healeys">http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys</a> <a=
 href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" data-mce-href=3D"http://autox.team=
.net/archive">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br><br><a href=3D"mailto:H=
[email-masked]" data-mce-href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">Hea=
[email-masked]</a><br><a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listin=
fo/healeys" data-mce-href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healey=
s">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a><br><br>Unsubscribe/M=
anage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/airtightpr=
[email-masked]" data-mce-href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/optio=
ns/healeys/[email-masked]">http://autox.team.net/mailman/o=
ptions/healeys/[email-masked]</a><br><br></span></div></di=
v></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></body></html>
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[email-masked]

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---

From: Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 20:44:09 -0700

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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I was going to suggest a 'gun-drilled' cam from DWM, but it appears they 
don't make them for the 4-cyl cars. Putting extra oil on the wear 
surfaces has to be a good thing.

On 8/5/2021 5:39 AM, Michael Salter wrote:
> Then at the 2000 and 4000 mile oil changes there was "fir" in the 
> drain plug magnet.
> I'm very disappointed to have destroyed a very low mileage "M" cam and 
> a set of NOS lifters that I had been saving for decades.
> I'm seriously considering having silicon nitride lifters manufactured 
> but at over $1000 a set its a serious investment.
>
> M
>
> On Wed., Aug. 4, 2021, 10:47 a.m. Steven Kingsbury, 
> <[email-masked] 
>
>     I just rebuilt my 100 engine and purchased my lifters from AH
>     Spares in the UK. These were their new design for better oil flow.
>     I now have 1000 miles or so on the new engine and once I got my
>     problems figured out with my distributor, the car is running well
>     and smooth.
>        Now I'm wondering when the other shoe is going to drop! What
>     problems did you have pointing you to the lifters as the source of
>     those problems? When I retorqued the head, I readjusted the
>     rockers and found no problems. They were a little off, but I
>     expected a little.
>        What should I be looking for? I used Driven Break In oil and
>     then I switched to VR1 like you after 500 miles. I have been
>     driving the car to build up some trust in it and it's turning in
>     to a joy to drive. I've got M mods on this engine, cam, H6 carbs,
>     M pistons and these new lifters. So far, so good.
>        Thanks for your help,
>     Steven Kingsbury
>     BN1
>
>     On August 3, 2021 at 5:19 PM, Michael Salter via Healeys
>
>>     I'm  considering trying bucket type Buick lifters with longer
>>     push rods and a new cam.

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<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body>
    I was going to suggest a 'gun-drilled' cam from DWM, but it appears
    they don't make them for the 4-cyl cars. Putting extra oil on the
    wear surfaces has to be a good thing.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/5/2021 5:39 AM, Michael Salter
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="auto">The first sign of problems was having to adjust
        the tappets which had initially been silent after 2000 miles and
        then again at 4500.
        <div dir="auto">After adjusting they were still audible and had
          previously been silent.</div>
        <div dir="auto">Then at the 2000 and 4000 mile oil changes there
          was "fir" in the drain plug magnet.</div>
        <div dir="auto">I'm very disappointed to have destroyed a very
          low mileage "M" cam and a set of NOS lifters that I had been
          saving for decades.</div>
        <div dir="auto">I'm seriously considering having silicon nitride
          lifters manufactured but at over $1000 a set its a serious
          investment.</div>
        <div dir="auto"><br>
        </div>
        <div dir="auto">M</div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed., Aug. 4, 2021, 10:47
          a.m. Steven Kingsbury, &lt;<a
            href="mailto:[email-masked]"
            moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
          wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
          .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
          <div>
            <div>I just rebuilt my 100 engine and purchased my lifters
              from AH Spares in the UK. These were their new design for
              better oil flow. I now have 1000 miles or so on the new
              engine and once I got my problems figured out with my
              distributor, the car is running well and smooth.</div>
            <div>   Now I'm wondering when the other shoe is going to
              drop! What problems did you have pointing you to the
              lifters as the source of those problems? When I retorqued
              the head, I readjusted the rockers and found no problems.
              They were a little off, but I expected a little.</div>
            <div>   What should I be looking for? I used Driven Break In
              oil and then I switched to VR1 like you after 500 miles. I
              have been driving the car to build up some trust in it and
              it's turning in to a joy to drive. I've got M mods on this
              engine, cam, H6 carbs, M pistons and these new lifters. So
              far, so good. </div>
            <div>   Thanks for your help,</div>
            <div>Steven Kingsbury</div>
            <div>BN1</div>
            <div><br>
              On August 3, 2021 at 5:19 PM, Michael Salter via Healeys
              &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
              wrote:<br>
              <br>
            </div>
            <div>
              <blockquote type="cite">
                <div>
                  <div dir="auto">After only 6000 miles the NOS BMC
                    lifters that I installed in my engine with a very
                    low mileage "M" cam have started to deteriorate. 
                    <div dir="auto">This engine has had a steady diet of
                      VR1 non synthetic and it has had 4 changes in 6K
                      miles. </div>
                    <div dir="auto">Very disappointing. </div>
                    <div dir="auto">I'm  considering trying bucket type
                      Buick lifters with longer push rods and a new cam.</div>
                    <div dir="auto">Does anyone have experience with the
                      durability of the old Buick lifters ... getting a
                      little desperate here.</div>
                    <div dir="auto">Fortunately I caught this issue
                      before it ruined the engine.</div>
                    <div dir="auto"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="auto">M</div>
                  </div>
                  <br>
                </div>
              </blockquote>
            </div>
          </div>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>

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[email-masked]

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---

From: i erbs via Healeys <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 21:20:59 -0700

--===============8314645894021484865==

--00000000000098369705c8dc5dd7

Typically it's brass not ferrous. So no metal at all in the filter?

Ira Erbs
1959 AH 100-6
1967 MGB
Milwaukie, OR

On Thu, Aug 5, 2021, 9:09 PM Steven Kingsbury via Healeys <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> Thanks for the feedback. My tappets have never been silent. They have
> always made noise and though not as loud as my '68 MGB/GT that I had,
> they're not quiet. And after having adjusted them when I retorqued the head
> at 500 mile mark, they still weren't silent. They sound like my old BN1
> did. And because I have louvered bonnet on this car, they seem even a bit
> louder, but with the bonnet up and running in the garage, they sound almost
> exactly like my old car. Now when I'm out driving they seem pretty silent
> and the engine runs very smooth.
>    As for "fir" in the oil. When I drained my engine at the 500 mile mark,
> I ran all of the oil through a fine, paint filter and then used a magnet in
> the filter. Nothing appeared on the magnet. I also took the magnet and ran
> it through the oil before I poured it through the filter, and again
> nothing. I even ran the magnet through the empty drain pan after
> transferring the oil, and again, nothing.
>    Sorry to hear about your troubles and thank you for the tips on what to
> listen for and what to look for. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
> And just to be clear, these lifters you used are not the new "new" ones
> available through AH Spares. Rather they are New Old Stock ones that have
> been in you possession for quite a while now, right?
>    Again, good luck and hopefully the cam isn't completely destroyed and
> you caught it in time.
> Thanks!
> Steven
>
> On August 5, 2021 at 5:39 AM, Michael Salter <[email-masked]>
> wrote:
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]
>
>

--00000000000098369705c8dc5dd7
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"auto">Typically it&#39;s brass not ferrous. So no metal at all =
in the filter?<br><br><div data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature">Ira Erbs<br>1=
959 AH 100-6<br>1967 MGB<br>Milwaukie, OR</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmai=
l_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Aug 5, 2021, 9:09 PM=
 Steven Kingsbury via Healeys &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
>[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=
quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1=
ex"><div><div>Thanks for the feedback. My tappets have never been silent. T=
hey have always made noise and though not as loud as my &#39;68 MGB/GT that=
 I had, they&#39;re not quiet. And after having adjusted them when I retorq=
ued the head at 500 mile mark, they still weren&#39;t silent. They sound li=
ke my old BN1 did. And because I have louvered bonnet on this car, they see=
m even a bit louder, but with the bonnet up and running in the garage, they=
 sound almost exactly like my old car. Now when I&#39;m out driving they se=
em pretty silent and the engine runs very smooth.</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0As for &quot;fir&quot; in the oil. When I drained my engine at the 500 m=
ile mark, I ran all of the oil through a fine, paint filter and then used a=
 magnet in the filter. Nothing appeared on the magnet. I also took the magn=
et and ran it through the oil before I poured it through the filter, and ag=
ain nothing. I even ran the magnet through the empty drain pan after transf=
erring the oil, and again, nothing.</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Sorry to he=
ar about your troubles and thank you for the tips on what to listen for and=
 what to look for. Good luck with whatever you decide to do. And just to be=
 clear, these lifters you used are not the new &quot;new&quot; ones availab=
le through AH Spares. Rather they are New Old Stock ones that have been in =
you possession for quite a while now, right?=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0Again, good luck and hopefully the cam isn&#39;t completely destroyed=
 and you caught it in time.=C2=A0</div><div>Thanks!</div><div>Steven</div><=
div><br>On August 5, 2021 at 5:39 AM, Michael Salter &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">michaelsalter=
@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>=
<div dir=3D"auto">The first sign of problems was having to adjust the tappe=
ts which had initially been silent after 2000 miles and then again at 4500.=
<div dir=3D"auto">After adjusting they were still audible and had previousl=
y been silent.</div><div dir=3D"auto">Then at the 2000 and 4000 mile oil ch=
anges there was &quot;fir&quot; in the drain plug magnet.</div><div dir=3D"=
auto">I&#39;m very disappointed to have destroyed a very low mileage &quot;=
M&quot; cam and a set of NOS lifters that I had been saving for decades.</d=
iv><div dir=3D"auto">I&#39;m seriously considering having silicon nitride l=
ifters manufactured but at over $1000 a set its a serious investment.</div>=
<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">M</div></div><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Wed., Aug. 4, 202=
1, 10:47 a.m. Steven Kingsbury, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:airtightproductions@i=
cloud.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">airtightproductions@icloud.=
com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-l=
eft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><div>I just=
 rebuilt my 100 engine and purchased my lifters from AH Spares in the UK. T=
hese were their new design for better oil flow. I now have 1000 miles or so=
 on the new engine and once I got my problems figured out with my distribut=
or, the car is running well and smooth.</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Now I&#=
39;m wondering when the other shoe is going to drop! What problems did you =
have pointing you to the lifters as the source of those problems? When I re=
torqued the head, I readjusted the rockers and found no problems. They were=
 a little off, but I expected a little.</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0What sh=
ould I be looking for? I used Driven Break In oil and then I switched to VR=
1 like you after 500 miles. I have been driving the car to build up some tr=
ust in it and it&#39;s turning in to a joy to drive. I&#39;ve got M mods on=
 this engine, cam, H6 carbs, M pistons and these new lifters. So far, so go=
od.=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Thanks for your help,</div><div>Steve=
n Kingsbury</div><div>BN1</div><div><br>On August 3, 2021 at 5:19 PM, Micha=
el Salter via Healeys &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=
=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br=
></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"auto">After only 600=
0 miles the NOS BMC lifters that I installed in my engine with a very low m=
ileage &quot;M&quot; cam have started to deteriorate.=C2=A0<div dir=3D"auto=
">This engine has had a steady diet of VR1 non synthetic and it has had 4 c=
hanges in 6K miles.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto">Very disappointing.=C2=A0<=
/div><div dir=3D"auto">I&#39;m=C2=A0 considering trying bucket type Buick l=
ifters with longer push rods and a new cam.</div><div dir=3D"auto">Does any=
one have experience with the durability of the old Buick lifters ... gettin=
g a little desperate here.</div><div dir=3D"auto">Fortunately I caught this=
 issue before it ruined the engine.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div d=
ir=3D"auto">M</div></div><div><span>_______________________________________=
________<br>Support <a href=3D"http://Team.Net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"no=
referrer">Team.Net</a> <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" target=
=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Sugge=
sted annual donation $12.75<br><br>Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/=
pipermail/healeys" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">http://www.team.net=
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[email-masked]</a><br><br></span></div></div></blockquote></d=
iv></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></div>________________=
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eys</a><br>
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://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>

--00000000000098369705c8dc5dd7--

--===============8314645894021484865==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

[email-masked]

--===============8314645894021484865==--

---

From: Michael Oritt via Healeys <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2021 11:09:38 -0400

--===============0706322527483481233==

--0000000000001be66405c8f98b5e

In about 2007 just before ZDDP content in motor oils became a commonly
talked-about issue in vintage racing communities, I bought a new race
engine for my MGA-powered Elva Courier from a reputable builder who
recommended I use Mobil 1.  Somewhere during the first race weekend
performance fell off and upon disassembly it was determined that the cam
lobes had been damaged due to wear from the lifters.

After replacing the cam and lifters I began using RP racing oil and
throwing in ZDDP additive for good measure.  Though the Royal Purple
probably contained sufficient zddp on its own and some folks
cautioned against too high levels of zinc I have  continued this
combination and have not lost a cam, etc. since.

YMMV....

On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at 11:16 PM Michael Salter <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]
>
>

-- 
Best--Michael

--0000000000001be66405c8f98b5e
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:#3333ff">In ab=
out 2007 just before ZDDP content in motor oils became a commonly talked-ab=
out issue in vintage racing communities, I bought a new race engine for my =
MGA-powered Elva Courier from a reputable builder who recommended=C2=A0I us=
e Mobil 1.=C2=A0 Somewhere during the first race weekend performance fell o=
ff and upon disassembly it was determined that the cam lobes had been damag=
ed due to wear from the lifters.=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_defau=
lt" style=3D"color:#3333ff"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D=
"color:#3333ff">After replacing the cam and lifters I began=C2=A0using RP r=
acing oil and throwing in ZDDP additive for good measure.=C2=A0 Though the =
Royal Purple probably contained sufficient zddp on its own and some folks c=
autioned=C2=A0against too high levels of zinc I have=C2=A0 continued this c=
ombination and have not lost a cam, etc. since.</div><div class=3D"gmail_de=
fault" style=3D"color:#3333ff"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"color:#3333ff">YMMV....=C2=A0=C2=A0</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_=
quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at 11:16 P=
M Michael Salter &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_=
blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(2=
04,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">The first sign of problems =
was having to adjust the tappets which had initially been silent after 2000=
 miles and then again at 4500.<div dir=3D"auto">After adjusting they were s=
till audible and had previously been silent.</div><div dir=3D"auto">Then at=
 the 2000 and 4000 mile oil changes there was &quot;fir&quot; in the drain =
plug magnet.</div><div dir=3D"auto">I&#39;m very disappointed to have destr=
oyed a very low mileage &quot;M&quot; cam and a set of NOS lifters that I h=
ad been saving for decades.</div><div dir=3D"auto">I&#39;m seriously consid=
ering having silicon nitride lifters manufactured but at over $1000 a set i=
ts a serious investment.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"=
>M</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmai=
l_attr">On Wed., Aug. 4, 2021, 10:47 a.m. Steven Kingsbury, &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">airtightproduction=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);paddin=
g-left:1ex"><div><div>I just rebuilt my 100 engine and purchased my lifters=
 from AH Spares in the UK. These were their new design for better oil flow.=
 I now have 1000 miles or so on the new engine and once I got my problems f=
igured out with my distributor, the car is running well and smooth.</div><d=
iv>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Now I&#39;m wondering when the other shoe is going to =
drop! What problems did you have pointing you to the lifters as the source =
of those problems? When I retorqued the head, I readjusted the rockers and =
found no problems. They were a little off, but I expected a little.</div><d=
iv>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0What should I be looking for? I used Driven Break In o=
il and then I switched to VR1 like you after 500 miles. I have been driving=
 the car to build up some trust in it and it&#39;s turning in to a joy to d=
rive. I&#39;ve got M mods on this engine, cam, H6 carbs, M pistons and thes=
e new lifters. So far, so good.=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Thanks fo=
r your help,</div><div>Steven Kingsbury</div><div>BN1</div><div><br>On Augu=
st 3, 2021 at 5:19 PM, Michael Salter via Healeys &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hea=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
m.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div =
dir=3D"auto">After only 6000 miles the NOS BMC lifters that I installed in =
my engine with a very low mileage &quot;M&quot; cam have started to deterio=
rate.=C2=A0<div dir=3D"auto">This engine has had a steady diet of VR1 non s=
ynthetic and it has had 4 changes in 6K miles.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"=
>Very disappointing.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto">I&#39;m=C2=A0 considering=
 trying bucket type Buick lifters with longer push rods and a new cam.</div=
><div dir=3D"auto">Does anyone have experience with the durability of the o=
ld Buick lifters ... getting a little desperate here.</div><div dir=3D"auto=
">Fortunately I caught this issue before it ruined the engine.</div><div di=
r=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">M</div></div><div><span>____________=
___________________________________<br>Support <a href=3D"http://Team.Net" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">Team.Net</a> <a href=3D"http://www.tea=
m.net/donate.html" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net=
/donate.html</a><br>Suggested annual donation $12.75<br><br>Archive: <a hre=
f=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys</a> <a href=3D"http://autox.tea=
m.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/a=
rchive</a><br><br><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferr=
er" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br><a href=3D"http://autox=
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[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/m=
ailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]</a><br><br></span></d=
iv></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
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<br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys" rel=3D"noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys</a> <a href=3D"h=
ttp://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://a=
utox.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
eam.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys" rel=3D"noreferre=
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s/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://auto=
x.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"=
><font color=3D"#3333ff">Best--Michael</font></div>

--0000000000001be66405c8f98b5e--

--===============0706322527483481233==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

[email-masked]

--===============0706322527483481233==--

---

From: Alan Seigrist <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2021 09:07:49 +0800

--===============7766282092291372802==

--0000000000005f2e3905c9160452

So adding zddp on top of whatever is in there is okay?  I have Castrol
20W-50 in my motor... also use the Valvoline too.

On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 11:11 PM Michael Oritt via Healeys <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]
>
>

--0000000000005f2e3905c9160452
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">So adding zddp on top of whatever is in there is okay?=C2=
=A0 I have Castrol 20W-50 in my motor... also use the Valvoline too.</div><=
br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat,=
 Aug 7, 2021 at 11:11 PM Michael Oritt via Healeys &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:he=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1=
px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"=
gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)">In about 2007 just before ZDD=
P content in motor oils became a commonly talked-about issue in vintage rac=
ing communities, I bought a new race engine for my MGA-powered Elva Courier=
 from a reputable builder who recommended=C2=A0I use Mobil 1.=C2=A0 Somewhe=
re during the first race weekend performance fell off and upon disassembly =
it was determined that the cam lobes had been damaged due to wear from the =
lifters.=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(5=
1,51,255)"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,=
255)">After replacing the cam and lifters I began=C2=A0using RP racing oil =
and throwing in ZDDP additive for good measure.=C2=A0 Though the Royal Purp=
le probably contained sufficient zddp on its own and some folks cautioned=
=C2=A0against too high levels of zinc I have=C2=A0 continued this combinati=
on and have not lost a cam, etc. since.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" s=
tyle=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)">YMMV....=C2=A0=C2=A0</div></div><br><div class=3D=
"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at =
11:16 PM Michael Salter &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" targ=
et=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px soli=
d rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">The first sign of pr=
oblems was having to adjust the tappets which had initially been silent aft=
er 2000 miles and then again at 4500.<div dir=3D"auto">After adjusting they=
 were still audible and had previously been silent.</div><div dir=3D"auto">=
Then at the 2000 and 4000 mile oil changes there was &quot;fir&quot; in the=
 drain plug magnet.</div><div dir=3D"auto">I&#39;m very disappointed to hav=
e destroyed a very low mileage &quot;M&quot; cam and a set of NOS lifters t=
hat I had been saving for decades.</div><div dir=3D"auto">I&#39;m seriously=
 considering having silicon nitride lifters manufactured but at over $1000 =
a set its a serious investment.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"auto">M</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" clas=
s=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed., Aug. 4, 2021, 10:47 a.m. Steven Kingsbury, &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">airtightp=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,20=
4);padding-left:1ex"><div><div>I just rebuilt my 100 engine and purchased m=
y lifters from AH Spares in the UK. These were their new design for better =
oil flow. I now have 1000 miles or so on the new engine and once I got my p=
roblems figured out with my distributor, the car is running well and smooth=
.</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Now I&#39;m wondering when the other shoe is =
going to drop! What problems did you have pointing you to the lifters as th=
e source of those problems? When I retorqued the head, I readjusted the roc=
kers and found no problems. They were a little off, but I expected a little=
.</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0What should I be looking for? I used Driven B=
reak In oil and then I switched to VR1 like you after 500 miles. I have bee=
n driving the car to build up some trust in it and it&#39;s turning in to a=
 joy to drive. I&#39;ve got M mods on this engine, cam, H6 carbs, M pistons=
 and these new lifters. So far, so good.=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
Thanks for your help,</div><div>Steven Kingsbury</div><div>BN1</div><div><b=
r>On August 3, 2021 at 5:19 PM, Michael Salter via Healeys &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">healeys@=
autox.team.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><=
div><div dir=3D"auto">After only 6000 miles the NOS BMC lifters that I inst=
alled in my engine with a very low mileage &quot;M&quot; cam have started t=
o deteriorate.=C2=A0<div dir=3D"auto">This engine has had a steady diet of =
VR1 non synthetic and it has had 4 changes in 6K miles.=C2=A0</div><div dir=
=3D"auto">Very disappointing.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto">I&#39;m=C2=A0 co=
nsidering trying bucket type Buick lifters with longer push rods and a new =
cam.</div><div dir=3D"auto">Does anyone have experience with the durability=
 of the old Buick lifters ... getting a little desperate here.</div><div di=
r=3D"auto">Fortunately I caught this issue before it ruined the engine.</di=
v><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">M</div></div><div><span>___=
____________________________________________<br>Support <a href=3D"http://T=
eam.Net" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">Team.Net</a> <a href=3D"http:=
//www.team.net/donate.html" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www=
.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Suggested annual donation $12.75<br><br>Archiv=
e: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys" rel=3D"noreferrer" tar=
get=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys</a> <a href=3D"http://=
autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.t=
eam.net/archive</a><br><br><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D=
"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br><a href=3D"htt=
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blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a><br><br>Unsubscrib=
e/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/airtight=
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eam.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]</a><br><br><=
/span></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div>
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Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys" rel=3D"noreferre=
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ttp://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://a=
utox.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
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eam.net</a><br>
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s/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://auto=
x.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"=
s/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.t=
eam.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>

--0000000000005f2e3905c9160452--

--===============7766282092291372802==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

[email-masked]

--===============7766282092291372802==--

---

From: i erbs via Healeys <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2021 18:19:25 -0700

--===============7533229695717607261==

--000000000000d5f3ff05c9162d82

Good practice

Ira Erbs
1959 AH 100-6
1967 MGB
Milwaukie, OR

On Sun, Aug 8, 2021, 6:09 PM Alan Seigrist <[email-masked]> wrote:

>>>> problems did you have pointing you to the lifters as the source of those
>>>> problems? When I retorqued the head, I readjusted the rockers and found no
>>>> problems. They were a little off, but I expected a little.

--000000000000d5f3ff05c9162d82
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"auto">Good practice<br><br><div data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signatu=
re">Ira Erbs<br>1959 AH 100-6<br>1967 MGB<br>Milwaukie, OR</div></div><br><=
div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug=
 8, 2021, 6:09 PM Alan Seigrist &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
>[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex=
"><div dir=3D"ltr">So adding zddp on top of whatever is in there is okay?=
=C2=A0 I have Castrol 20W-50 in my motor... also use the Valvoline too.</di=
v><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On S=
at, Aug 7, 2021 at 11:11 PM Michael Oritt via Healeys &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">healeys@autox=
.team.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding=
-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb=
(51,51,255)">In about 2007 just before ZDDP content in motor oils became a =
commonly talked-about issue in vintage racing communities, I bought a new r=
ace engine for my MGA-powered Elva Courier from a reputable builder who rec=
ommended=C2=A0I use Mobil 1.=C2=A0 Somewhere during the first race weekend =
performance fell off and upon disassembly it was determined that the cam lo=
bes had been damaged due to wear from the lifters.=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)"><br></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)">After replacing the cam a=
nd lifters I began=C2=A0using RP racing oil and throwing in ZDDP additive f=
or good measure.=C2=A0 Though the Royal Purple probably contained sufficien=
t zddp on its own and some folks cautioned=C2=A0against too high levels of =
zinc I have=C2=A0 continued this combination and have not lost a cam, etc. =
since.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)"><br=
></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)">YMMV....=
=C2=A0=C2=A0</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" cla=
ss=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at 11:16 PM Michael Salter &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">m=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,2=
04);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">The first sign of problems was havi=
ng to adjust the tappets which had initially been silent after 2000 miles a=
nd then again at 4500.<div dir=3D"auto">After adjusting they were still aud=
ible and had previously been silent.</div><div dir=3D"auto">Then at the 200=
0 and 4000 mile oil changes there was &quot;fir&quot; in the drain plug mag=
net.</div><div dir=3D"auto">I&#39;m very disappointed to have destroyed a v=
ery low mileage &quot;M&quot; cam and a set of NOS lifters that I had been =
saving for decades.</div><div dir=3D"auto">I&#39;m seriously considering ha=
ving silicon nitride lifters manufactured but at over $1000 a set its a ser=
ious investment.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">M</div>=
</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">=
On Wed., Aug. 4, 2021, 10:47 a.m. Steven Kingsbury, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:a=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">airtigh=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=
quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,=
204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div>I just rebuilt my 100 engine and purchased=
 my lifters from AH Spares in the UK. These were their new design for bette=
r oil flow. I now have 1000 miles or so on the new engine and once I got my=
 problems figured out with my distributor, the car is running well and smoo=
th.</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Now I&#39;m wondering when the other shoe i=
s going to drop! What problems did you have pointing you to the lifters as =
the source of those problems? When I retorqued the head, I readjusted the r=
ockers and found no problems. They were a little off, but I expected a litt=
le.</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0What should I be looking for? I used Driven=
 Break In oil and then I switched to VR1 like you after 500 miles. I have b=
een driving the car to build up some trust in it and it&#39;s turning in to=
 a joy to drive. I&#39;ve got M mods on this engine, cam, H6 carbs, M pisto=
ns and these new lifters. So far, so good.=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0Thanks for your help,</div><div>Steven Kingsbury</div><div>BN1</div><div=
><br>On August 3, 2021 at 5:19 PM, Michael Salter via Healeys &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"=
h rods and a new cam.</div><div dir=3D"auto">Does anyone have experience wi=
th the durability of the old Buick lifters ... getting a little desperate h=
ere.</div><div dir=3D"auto">Fortunately I caught this issue before it ruine=
d the engine.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">M</div></d=
iv><div><span>_______________________________________________<br>Support <a=
 href=3D"http://Team.Net" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">T=
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[email-masked]

--===============7533229695717607261==--

---

From: Bob Spidell via Healeys <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2021 19:57:03 -0700

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Subject to debate. The literature I've seen from the oil companies 
stress that their products are carefully formulated, and adding anything 
to them is not a good idea. Also, ZDDP was first used as a detergent, 
with its wear surface protection a surprising side-effect (like how 
tetra-ethyl lead was added to gas to increase octane rating, and its 
cushioning and protecting of valve seats was a side-effect). But, it's 
human nature to think "If a little of this is good, a lot HAS to be 
better," but it's not necessarily true. ZDDP is corrosive in high 
concentrations; the 'sweet spot' appears to be about 1,500PPM.

Ordinarily, I'd attribute Michael's failed lifters (cam?) to improper 
break-in, but I'm sure M used proper procedures, which makes this doubly 
mysterious and concerning. I don't know how bucket lifters would change 
the outcome; their main benefit seems to be reduced wear of the block.

On 8/8/2021 6:19 PM, i erbs via Healeys wrote:
> Good practice
>
> Ira Erbs
> 1959 AH 100-6
> 1967 MGB
> Milwaukie, OR
>
> On Sun, Aug 8, 2021, 6:09 PM Alan Seigrist <[email-masked] 
>
>     So adding zddp on top of whatever is in there is okay?  I have
>     Castrol 20W-50 in my motor... also use the Valvoline too.
>
>     On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 11:11 PM Michael Oritt via Healeys
>
>         In about 2007 just before ZDDP content in motor oils became a
>         commonly talked-about issue in vintage racing communities, I
>         bought a new race engine for my MGA-powered Elva Courier from
>         a reputable builder who recommended I use Mobil 1.  Somewhere
>         during the first race weekend performance fell off and upon
>         disassembly it was determined that the cam lobes had been
>         damaged due to wear from the lifters.
>
>         After replacing the cam and lifters I began using RP racing
>         oil and throwing in ZDDP additive for good measure. Though the
>         Royal Purple probably contained sufficient zddp on its own and
>         some folks cautioned against too high levels of zinc I have 
>         continued this combination and have not lost a cam, etc. since.
>
>         YMMV....
>
>         On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at 11:16 PM Michael Salter
>
>             The first sign of problems was having to adjust the
>             tappets which had initially been silent after 2000 miles
>             and then again at 4500.
>             Then at the 2000 and 4000 mile oil changes there was "fir"
>             in the drain plug magnet.
>             I'm very disappointed to have destroyed a very low mileage
>             "M" cam and a set of NOS lifters that I had been saving
>             for decades.
>             I'm seriously considering having silicon nitride lifters
>             manufactured but at over $1000 a set its a serious investment.
>
>             M
>
>                 I just rebuilt my 100 engine and purchased my lifters
>                 from AH Spares in the UK. These were their new design
>                 for better oil flow. I now have 1000 miles or so on
>                 the new engine and once I got my problems figured out
>                 with my distributor, the car is running well and smooth.
>                    Now I'm wondering when the other shoe is going to
>                 lifters as the source of those problems? When I
>                 retorqued the head, I readjusted the rockers and found
>                    What should I be looking for? I used Driven Break
>                 In oil and then I switched to VR1 like you after 500
>                 miles. I have been driving the car to build up some
>                 trust in it and it's turning in to a joy to drive.
>                 I've got M mods on this engine, cam, H6 carbs, M
>                 pistons and these new lifters. So far, so good.
>                    Thanks for your help,
>                 Steven Kingsbury
>                 BN1
>
>                 On August 3, 2021 at 5:19 PM, Michael Salter via
>                 Healeys <[email-masked]
>
>>                 After only 6000 miles the NOS BMC lifters that I
>>                 installed in my engine with a very low mileage "M"
>>                 cam have started to deteriorate.
>>                 This engine has had a steady diet of VR1 non
>>                 synthetic and it has had 4 changes in 6K miles.
>>                 Very disappointing.
>>                 I'm  considering trying bucket type Buick lifters
>>                 with longer push rods and a new cam.
>>                 Does anyone have experience with the durability of
>>                 the old Buick lifters ... getting a little desperate
>>                 here.

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    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body>
    Subject to debate. The literature I've seen from the oil companies
    stress that their products are carefully formulated, and adding
    anything to them is not a good idea. Also, ZDDP was first used as a
    detergent, with its wear surface protection a surprising side-effect
    (like how tetra-ethyl lead was added to gas to increase octane
    rating, and its cushioning and protecting of valve seats was a
    side-effect). But, it's human nature to think "If a little of this
    is good, a lot HAS to be better," but it's not necessarily true.
    ZDDP is corrosive in high concentrations; the 'sweet spot' appears
    to be about 1,500PPM. <br>
    <br>
    Ordinarily, I'd attribute Michael's failed lifters (cam?) to
    improper break-in, but I'm sure M used proper procedures, which
    makes this doubly mysterious and concerning. I don't know how bucket
    lifters would change the outcome; their main benefit seems to be
    reduced wear of the block.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/8/2021 6:19 PM, i erbs via Healeys
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="auto">Good practice<br>
        <br>
        <div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Ira Erbs<br>
          1959 AH 100-6<br>
          1967 MGB<br>
          Milwaukie, OR</div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 8, 2021, 6:09 PM
          Alan Seigrist &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]"
            moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
          .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
          <div dir="ltr">So adding zddp on top of whatever is in there
            is okay?  I have Castrol 20W-50 in my motor... also use the
            Valvoline too.</div>
          <br>
          <div class="gmail_quote">
            <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at
              11:11 PM Michael Oritt via Healeys &lt;<a
                href="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank"
                rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
              wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
              0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
              rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
              <div dir="ltr">
                <div class="gmail_default" style="color:rgb(51,51,255)">In
                  about 2007 just before ZDDP content in motor oils
                  became a commonly talked-about issue in vintage racing
                  communities, I bought a new race engine for my
                  MGA-powered Elva Courier from a reputable builder who
                  recommended I use Mobil 1.  Somewhere during the first
                  race weekend performance fell off and upon disassembly
                  it was determined that the cam lobes had been damaged
                  due to wear from the lifters.  </div>
                <div class="gmail_default" style="color:rgb(51,51,255)"><br>
                </div>
                <div class="gmail_default" style="color:rgb(51,51,255)">After
                  replacing the cam and lifters I began using RP racing
                  oil and throwing in ZDDP additive for good measure. 
                  Though the Royal Purple probably contained sufficient
                  zddp on its own and some folks cautioned against too
                  high levels of zinc I have  continued this combination
                  and have not lost a cam, etc. since.</div>
                <div class="gmail_default" style="color:rgb(51,51,255)"><br>
                </div>
                <div class="gmail_default" style="color:rgb(51,51,255)">YMMV....  </div>
              </div>
              <br>
              <div class="gmail_quote">
                <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at
                  11:16 PM Michael Salter &lt;<a
                    href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                    target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                  wrote:<br>
                </div>
                <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
                  0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                  rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                  <div dir="auto">The first sign of problems was having
                    to adjust the tappets which had initially been
                    silent after 2000 miles and then again at 4500.
                    <div dir="auto">After adjusting they were still
                      audible and had previously been silent.</div>
                    <div dir="auto">Then at the 2000 and 4000 mile oil
                      changes there was "fir" in the drain plug magnet.</div>
                    <div dir="auto">I'm very disappointed to have
                      destroyed a very low mileage "M" cam and a set of
                      NOS lifters that I had been saving for decades.</div>
                    <div dir="auto">I'm seriously considering having
                      silicon nitride lifters manufactured but at over
                      $1000 a set its a serious investment.</div>
                    <div dir="auto"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir="auto">M</div>
                  </div>
                  <br>
                  <div class="gmail_quote">
                    <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed., Aug. 4,
                      2021, 10:47 a.m. Steven Kingsbury, &lt;<a
                        href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                        target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                      wrote:<br>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
                      0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                      rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                      <div>
                        <div>I just rebuilt my 100 engine and purchased
                          my lifters from AH Spares in the UK. These
                          were their new design for better oil flow. I
                          now have 1000 miles or so on the new engine
                          and once I got my problems figured out with my
                          distributor, the car is running well and
                          smooth.</div>
                        <div>   Now I'm wondering when the other shoe is
                          going to drop! What problems did you have
                          pointing you to the lifters as the source of
                          those problems? When I retorqued the head, I
                          readjusted the rockers and found no problems.
                          They were a little off, but I expected a
                          little.</div>
                        <div>   What should I be looking for? I used
                          Driven Break In oil and then I switched to VR1
                          like you after 500 miles. I have been driving
                          the car to build up some trust in it and it's
                          turning in to a joy to drive. I've got M mods
                          on this engine, cam, H6 carbs, M pistons and
                          these new lifters. So far, so good. </div>
                        <div>   Thanks for your help,</div>
                        <div>Steven Kingsbury</div>
                        <div>BN1</div>
                        <div><br>
                          On August 3, 2021 at 5:19 PM, Michael Salter
                          via Healeys &lt;<a
                            href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                            rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
                            moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                          wrote:<br>
                          <br>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <blockquote type="cite">
                            <div>
                              <div dir="auto">After only 6000 miles the
                                NOS BMC lifters that I installed in my
                                engine with a very low mileage "M" cam
                                have started to deteriorate. 
                                <div dir="auto">This engine has had a
                                  steady diet of VR1 non synthetic and
                                  it has had 4 changes in 6K miles. </div>
                                <div dir="auto">Very disappointing. </div>
                                <div dir="auto">I'm  considering trying
                                  bucket type Buick lifters with longer
                                  push rods and a new cam.</div>
                                <div dir="auto">Does anyone have
                                  experience with the durability of the
                                  old Buick lifters ... getting a little
                                  desperate here.</div>
                                <div dir="auto">Fortunately I caught
                                  this issue before it ruined the
                                  engine.</div>
                                <div dir="auto"><br>
                                </div>
                                <div dir="auto">M</div>
                              </div>
                              <br>
                            </div>
                          </blockquote>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </blockquote>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>

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[email-masked]

--===============1751367934359404505==--

---

From: Michael Oritt via Healeys <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2021 07:12:19 -0400

--===============5740162864620568758==

--00000000000009464805c91e76d9

Alan--

In my race engines I use (non-street) Royal Purple RPX 10/40, which has a
high content of zinc and other elements, and then toss in a small container
of ZDDPlus.  I change oil and filter after each race weekend and have not
lost a cam or any valve train components since starting to follow this
regimen.

For my non-race 100 I usually use Castrol's "High Mileage" 10/40 and also
toss in a small bottle of ZDDPlus.  Some people believe that cams and
lifters "absorb" zinc from the usual break-in oils which have high zinc
levels, making additives unnecessary.  I err on the conservative side, and
except for the cost of a bottle of additive I see no disadvantage to this
practice, so as far as I am concerned it is "okay".

Best--Michael Oritt

-- 
Best--Michael

--00000000000009464805c91e76d9
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:#3333ff">Alan-=
-</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:#3333ff"><br></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:#3333ff">In my race engines I use (n=
on-street) Royal Purple RPX 10/40, which has a high content of zinc and oth=
er elements, and then toss in a small container of ZDDPlus.=C2=A0 I change =
oil and filter after each race weekend and have not lost a cam or any valve=
 train components since starting to follow this regimen.</div><div class=3D=
"gmail_default" style=3D"color:#3333ff"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_defau=
lt" style=3D"color:#3333ff">For my non-race 100 I usually use Castrol&#39;s=
 &quot;High Mileage&quot; 10/40 and also toss in a small bottle of ZDDPlus.=
=C2=A0 Some people believe=C2=A0that cams and lifters &quot;absorb&quot; zi=
nc from the usual break-in oils which have high zinc levels, making additiv=
es unnecessary.=C2=A0 I err on the conservative side, and except for the co=
st of a bottle of additive I see no=C2=A0disadvantage=C2=A0to this practice=
, so as far as I am concerned it is &quot;okay&quot;.=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div=
 class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:#3333ff"><br></div><div class=3D"gm=
ail_default" style=3D"color:#3333ff">Best--Michael Oritt</div><div class=3D=
"gmail_default" style=3D"color:#3333ff"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_defau=
lt" style=3D"color:#3333ff"><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 9:08 PM Alan S=
eigrist &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a=
>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px=
 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><di=
v dir=3D"ltr">So adding zddp on top of whatever is in there is okay?=C2=A0 =
I have Castrol 20W-50 in my motor... also use the Valvoline too.</div><br><=
div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Aug=
 7, 2021 at 11:11 PM Michael Oritt via Healeys &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:healey=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<b=
r></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">=
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)">In about 2007 j=
ust before ZDDP content in motor oils became a commonly talked-about issue =
in vintage racing communities, I bought a new race engine for my MGA-powere=
d Elva Courier from a reputable builder who recommended=C2=A0I use Mobil 1.=
=C2=A0 Somewhere during the first race weekend performance fell off and upo=
n disassembly it was determined that the cam lobes had been damaged due to =
wear from the lifters.=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"c=
olor:rgb(51,51,255)">After replacing the cam and lifters I began=C2=A0using=
 RP racing oil and throwing in ZDDP additive for good measure.=C2=A0 Though=
 the Royal Purple probably contained sufficient zddp on its own and some fo=
lks cautioned=C2=A0against too high levels of zinc I have=C2=A0 continued t=
his combination and have not lost a cam, etc. since.</div><div class=3D"gma=
il_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_de=
fault" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)">YMMV....=C2=A0=C2=A0</div></div><br><=
div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Aug=
 5, 2021 at 11:16 PM Michael Salter &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:michaelsalter@gma=
il.com" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><=
blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l=
eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">The firs=
t sign of problems was having to adjust the tappets which had initially bee=
n silent after 2000 miles and then again at 4500.<div dir=3D"auto">After ad=
justing they were still audible and had previously been silent.</div><div d=
ir=3D"auto">Then at the 2000 and 4000 mile oil changes there was &quot;fir&=
quot; in the drain plug magnet.</div><div dir=3D"auto">I&#39;m very disappo=
inted to have destroyed a very low mileage &quot;M&quot; cam and a set of N=
OS lifters that I had been saving for decades.</div><div dir=3D"auto">I&#39=
;m seriously considering having silicon nitride lifters manufactured but at=
 over $1000 a set its a serious investment.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></di=
v><div dir=3D"auto">M</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D=
"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed., Aug. 4, 2021, 10:47 a.m. Steven Kingsbu=
ry, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank"=
>[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div>I just rebuilt my 100 engine and=
 purchased my lifters from AH Spares in the UK. These were their new design=
 for better oil flow. I now have 1000 miles or so on the new engine and onc=
e I got my problems figured out with my distributor, the car is running wel=
l and smooth.</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Now I&#39;m wondering when the ot=
her shoe is going to drop! What problems did you have pointing you to the l=
ifters as the source of those problems? When I retorqued the head, I readju=
sted the rockers and found no problems. They were a little off, but I expec=
ted a little.</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0What should I be looking for? I u=
sed Driven Break In oil and then I switched to VR1 like you after 500 miles=
. I have been driving the car to build up some trust in it and it&#39;s tur=
ning in to a joy to drive. I&#39;ve got M mods on this engine, cam, H6 carb=
s, M pistons and these new lifters. So far, so good.=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0Thanks for your help,</div><div>Steven Kingsbury</div><div>BN1<=
/div><div><br>On August 3, 2021 at 5:19 PM, Michael Salter via Healeys &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_bla=
nk">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><div><blockquote typ=
e=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"auto">After only 6000 miles the NOS BMC lifters=
 that I installed in my engine with a very low mileage &quot;M&quot; cam ha=
ve started to deteriorate.=C2=A0<div dir=3D"auto">This engine has had a ste=
ady diet of VR1 non synthetic and it has had 4 changes in 6K miles.=C2=A0</=
div><div dir=3D"auto">Very disappointing.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto">I&#3=
9;m=C2=A0 considering trying bucket type Buick lifters with longer push rod=
s and a new cam.</div><div dir=3D"auto">Does anyone have experience with th=
e durability of the old Buick lifters ... getting a little desperate here.<=
/div><div dir=3D"auto">Fortunately I caught this issue before it ruined the=
 engine.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">M</div></div><d=
iv><span>_______________________________________________<br>Support <a href=
=3D"http://Team.Net" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">Team.Net</a> <a h=
ref=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank=
">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Suggested annual donation $12.75<b=
r><br>Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys" rel=3D"nor=
eferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys</a> <a hre=
f=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tp://autox.team.net/archive</a><br><br><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
.net" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br><a=
 href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys" rel=3D"noreferrer"=
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r>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/heal=
eys/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tp://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]<=
/a><br><br></span></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
rer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
<br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys" rel=3D"noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys</a> <a href=3D"h=
ttp://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://a=
utox.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
eam.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys" rel=3D"noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a><br>
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s/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://auto=
x.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"=
 class=3D"gmail_signature"><font color=3D"#3333ff">Best--Michael</font></di=
v>

--00000000000009464805c91e76d9--

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[email-masked]

--===============5740162864620568758==--

---

From: Michael Oritt <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2021 07:20:23 -0400

--===============8043283747198147400==

--000000000000df7bee05c91e922e

Bob--

I should have added that this incident coincided with a recent lowering by
DOT of lead and zinc contents and what might have been fine a year
earlier was no longer sufficient to protect the new cam and lifters.  I'll
certainly plead guilty to the sometimes-specious thinking that "more is
better", but on the other hand "less" is sometimes not enough, and therein
lies the dilemma.

Best--Michael Oritt

On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 11:00 PM Bob Spidell via Healeys <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> Subject to debate. The literature I've seen from the oil companies stress
> that their products are carefully formulated, and adding anything to them
> is not a good idea. Also, ZDDP was first used as a detergent, with its wear
> surface protection a surprising side-effect (like how tetra-ethyl lead was
> added to gas to increase octane rating, and its cushioning and protecting
> of valve seats was a side-effect). But, it's human nature to think "If a
> little of this is good, a lot HAS to be better," but it's not necessarily
> true. ZDDP is corrosive in high concentrations; the 'sweet spot' appears to
> be about 1,500PPM.
>
> mysterious and concerning. I don't know how bucket lifters would change the
> outcome; their main benefit seems to be reduced wear of the block.
>
>
>>>>> I just rebuilt my 100 engine and purchased my lifters from AH Spares
>>>>> in the UK. These were their new design for better oil flow. I now have 1000
>>>>> This engine has had a steady diet of VR1 non synthetic and it has had
>>>>> 4 changes in 6K miles.
>>>>> Very disappointing.

-- 
Best--Michael

--000000000000df7bee05c91e922e
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:#3333ff">Bob--=
</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:#3333ff"><br></div><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:#3333ff">I should have added that thi=
s incident coincided with a recent lowering by DOT of lead and zinc content=
s and what might have been fine a year earlier=C2=A0was no longer=C2=A0suff=
icient to protect the new cam and lifters.=C2=A0 I&#39;ll certainly=C2=A0pl=
ead guilty to the sometimes-specious thinking that=C2=A0&quot;more is bette=
r&quot;, but on the other hand &quot;less&quot; is sometimes not enough, an=
d therein lies the dilemma.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"colo=
r:#3333ff"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:#3333ff">B=
est--Michael Oritt</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"lt=
r" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 11:00 PM Bob Spidell via Hea=
leys &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</=
a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0p=
x 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
 =20
   =20
 =20
  <div>
    Subject to debate. The literature I&#39;ve seen from the oil companies
    stress that their products are carefully formulated, and adding
    anything to them is not a good idea. Also, ZDDP was first used as a
    detergent, with its wear surface protection a surprising side-effect
    (like how tetra-ethyl lead was added to gas to increase octane
    rating, and its cushioning and protecting of valve seats was a
    side-effect). But, it&#39;s human nature to think &quot;If a little of =
this
    is good, a lot HAS to be better,&quot; but it&#39;s not necessarily tru=
e.
    ZDDP is corrosive in high concentrations; the &#39;sweet spot&#39; appe=
ars
    to be about 1,500PPM. <br>
    <br>
    Ordinarily, I&#39;d attribute Michael&#39;s failed lifters (cam?) to
    improper break-in, but I&#39;m sure M used proper procedures, which
    makes this doubly mysterious and concerning. I don&#39;t know how bucke=
t
    lifters would change the outcome; their main benefit seems to be
    reduced wear of the block.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div>On 8/8/2021 6:19 PM, i erbs via Healeys
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
     =20
      <div dir=3D"auto">Good practice<br>
        <br>
        <div>Ira Erbs<br>
          1959 AH 100-6<br>
          1967 MGB<br>
          Milwaukie, OR</div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class=3D"gmail_quote">
        <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 8, 2021, 6:09 PM
          Alan Seigrist &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=
=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
          <div dir=3D"ltr">So adding zddp on top of whatever is in there
            is okay?=C2=A0 I have Castrol 20W-50 in my motor... also use th=
e
            Valvoline too.</div>
          <br>
          <div class=3D"gmail_quote">
            <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at
              11:11 PM Michael Oritt via Healeys &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:heal=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
.net</a>&gt;
              wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0=
.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
              <div dir=3D"ltr">
                <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)"=
>In
                  about 2007 just before ZDDP content in motor oils
                  became a commonly talked-about issue in vintage racing
                  communities, I bought a new race engine for my
                  MGA-powered Elva Courier from a reputable builder who
                  recommended=C2=A0I use Mobil 1.=C2=A0 Somewhere during th=
e first
                  race weekend performance fell off and upon disassembly
                  it was determined that the cam lobes had been damaged
                  due to wear from the lifters.=C2=A0=C2=A0</div>
                <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)"=
><br>
                </div>
                <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)"=
>After
                  replacing the cam and lifters I began=C2=A0using RP racin=
g
                  oil and throwing in ZDDP additive for good measure.=C2=A0
                  Though the Royal Purple probably contained sufficient
                  zddp on its own and some folks cautioned=C2=A0against too
                  high levels of zinc I have=C2=A0 continued this combinati=
on
                  and have not lost a cam, etc. since.</div>
                <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)"=
><br>
                </div>
                <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)"=
>YMMV....=C2=A0=C2=A0</div>
              </div>
              <br>
              <div class=3D"gmail_quote">
                <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 a=
t
                  11:16 PM Michael Salter &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:michaelsalt=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]<=
/a>&gt;
                  wrote:<br>
                </div>
                <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0=
px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                  <div dir=3D"auto">The first sign of problems was having
                    to adjust the tappets which had initially been
                    silent after 2000 miles and then again at 4500.
                    <div dir=3D"auto">After adjusting they were still
                      audible and had previously been silent.</div>
                    <div dir=3D"auto">Then at the 2000 and 4000 mile oil
                      changes there was &quot;fir&quot; in the drain plug m=
agnet.</div>
                    <div dir=3D"auto">I&#39;m very disappointed to have
                      destroyed a very low mileage &quot;M&quot; cam and a =
set of
                      NOS lifters that I had been saving for decades.</div>
                    <div dir=3D"auto">I&#39;m seriously considering having
                      silicon nitride lifters manufactured but at over
                      $1000 a set its a serious investment.</div>
                    <div dir=3D"auto"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir=3D"auto">M</div>
                  </div>
                  <br>
                  <div class=3D"gmail_quote">
                    <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed., Aug. 4,
                      2021, 10:47 a.m. Steven Kingsbury, &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">ai=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                      wrote:<br>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                      <div>
                        <div>I just rebuilt my 100 engine and purchased
                          my lifters from AH Spares in the UK. These
                          were their new design for better oil flow. I
                          now have 1000 miles or so on the new engine
                          and once I got my problems figured out with my
                          distributor, the car is running well and
                          smooth.</div>
                        <div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Now I&#39;m wondering when t=
he other shoe is
                          going to drop! What problems did you have
                          pointing you to the lifters as the source of
                          those problems? When I retorqued the head, I
                          readjusted the rockers and found no problems.
                          They were a little off, but I expected a
                          little.</div>
                        <div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0What should I be looking for=
? I used
                          Driven Break In oil and then I switched to VR1
                          like you after 500 miles. I have been driving
                          the car to build up some trust in it and it&#39;s
                          turning in to a joy to drive. I&#39;ve got M mods
                          on this engine, cam, H6 carbs, M pistons and
                          these new lifters. So far, so good.=C2=A0</div>
                        <div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Thanks for your help,</div>
                        <div>Steven Kingsbury</div>
                        <div>BN1</div>
                        <div><br>
                          On August 3, 2021 at 5:19 PM, Michael Salter
                          via Healeys &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
eam.net" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
.net</a>&gt;
                          wrote:<br>
                          <br>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <blockquote type=3D"cite">
                            <div>
                              <div dir=3D"auto">After only 6000 miles the
                                NOS BMC lifters that I installed in my
                                engine with a very low mileage &quot;M&quot=
; cam
                                have started to deteriorate.=C2=A0
                                <div dir=3D"auto">This engine has had a
                                  steady diet of VR1 non synthetic and
                                  it has had 4 changes in 6K miles.=C2=A0</=
div>
                                <div dir=3D"auto">Very disappointing.=C2=A0=
</div>
                                <div dir=3D"auto">I&#39;m=C2=A0 considering=
 trying
                                  bucket type Buick lifters with longer
                                  push rods and a new cam.</div>
                                <div dir=3D"auto">Does anyone have
                                  experience with the durability of the
                                  old Buick lifters ... getting a little
                                  desperate here.</div>
                                <div dir=3D"auto">Fortunately I caught
                                  this issue before it ruined the
                                  engine.</div>
                                <div dir=3D"auto"><br>
                                </div>
                                <div dir=3D"auto">M</div>
                              </div>
                              <br>
                            </div>
                          </blockquote>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </blockquote>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </div>

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[email-masked]

--===============8043283747198147400==--

---

From: Perry Small via Healeys <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2021 08:12:56 -0400

--===============5274138657106074645==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

--Apple-Mail-ADDE0BBA-665B-4CC5-9F5A-AA181D690A7A
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I think the real difference between the bucket lifters and the stock units i=
s the actual weight of the lifters.=20

There may be some impact on lifter bore wear due to the side loads of the pu=
shrods at a higher contact point on stock lifters compared to the bucket typ=
e but is probably minimal. Was that vague enough?=20
P

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 9, 2021, at 7:36 AM, Michael Oritt <[email-masked]> wrote:=

>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> Bob--
>=20
> I should have added that this incident coincided with a recent lowering by=
 DOT of lead and zinc contents and what might have been fine a year earlier w=
as no longer sufficient to protect the new cam and lifters.  I'll certainly p=
lead guilty to the sometimes-specious thinking that "more is better", but on=
 the other hand "less" is sometimes not enough, and therein lies the dilemma=
.
>=20
> Best--Michael Oritt
>=20
>> On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 11:00 PM Bob Spidell via Healeys <[email-masked]=
am.net> wrote:
>> Subject to debate. The literature I've seen from the oil companies stress=
 that their products are carefully formulated, and adding anything to them i=
s not a good idea. Also, ZDDP was first used as a detergent, with its wear s=
urface protection a surprising side-effect (like how tetra-ethyl lead was ad=
ded to gas to increase octane rating, and its cushioning and protecting of v=
alve seats was a side-effect). But, it's human nature to think "If a little o=
f this is good, a lot HAS to be better," but it's not necessarily true. ZDDP=
 is corrosive in high concentrations; the 'sweet spot' appears to be about 1=
,500PPM.=20
>>=20
>> Ordinarily, I'd attribute Michael's failed lifters (cam?) to improper bre=
ak-in, but I'm sure M used proper procedures, which makes this doubly myster=
ious and concerning. I don't know how bucket lifters would change the outcom=
e; their main benefit seems to be reduced wear of the block.
>>> On Sun, Aug 8, 2021, 6:09 PM Alan Seigrist <[email-masked]> wrote:=

>>>> So adding zddp on top of whatever is in there is okay?  I have Castrol 2=
0W-50 in my motor... also use the Valvoline too.
>>>>=20
>>>> On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 11:11 PM Michael Oritt via Healeys <healeys@auto=
x.team.net> wrote:
>>>>> In about 2007 just before ZDDP content in motor oils became a commonly=
 talked-about issue in vintage racing communities, I bought a new race engin=
e for my MGA-powered Elva Courier from a reputable builder who recommended I=
 use Mobil 1.  Somewhere during the first race weekend performance fell off a=
nd upon disassembly it was determined that the cam lobes had been damaged du=
e to wear from the lifters. =20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> After replacing the cam and lifters I began using RP racing oil and th=
rowing in ZDDP additive for good measure.  Though the Royal Purple probably c=
ontained sufficient zddp on its own and some folks cautioned against too hig=
h levels of zinc I have  continued this combination and have not lost a cam,=
 etc. since.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> YMMV.... =20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at 11:16 PM Michael Salter <[email-masked]=
m> wrote:
>>>>>> The first sign of problems was having to adjust the tappets which had=
>>>>>> After adjusting they were still audible and had previously been silen=
t.
>>>>>> Then at the 2000 and 4000 mile oil changes there was "fir" in the dra=
in plug magnet.
>>>>>> I'm very disappointed to have destroyed a very low mileage "M" cam an=
d a set of NOS lifters that I had been saving for decades.
>>>>>> I'm seriously considering having silicon nitride lifters manufactured=
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> M
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> On Wed., Aug. 4, 2021, 10:47 a.m. Steven Kingsbury, <airtightproducti=
[email-masked]> wrote:
>>>>>>> I just rebuilt my 100 engine and purchased my lifters from AH Spares=
 in the UK. These were their new design for better oil flow. I now have 1000=
 miles or so on the new engine and once I got my problems figured out with m=
y distributor, the car is running well and smooth.
>>>>>>>    Now I'm wondering when the other shoe is going to drop! What prob=
lems did you have pointing you to the lifters as the source of those problem=
s? When I retorqued the head, I readjusted the rockers and found no problems=
. They were a little off, but I expected a little.
>>>>>>>    What should I be looking for? I used Driven Break In oil and then=
 I switched to VR1 like you after 500 miles. I have been driving the car to b=
uild up some trust in it and it's turning in to a joy to drive. I've got M m=
ods on this engine, cam, H6 carbs, M pistons and these new lifters. So far, s=
o good.=20
>>>>>>>    Thanks for your help,
>>>>>>> Steven Kingsbury
>>>>>>> BN1
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> On August 3, 2021 at 5:19 PM, Michael Salter via Healeys <healeys@au=
tox.team.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> After only 6000 miles the NOS BMC lifters that I installed in my en=
gine with a very low mileage "M" cam have started to deteriorate.=20
>>>>>>>> This engine has had a steady diet of VR1 non synthetic and it has h=
ad 4 changes in 6K miles.=20
>>>>>>>> Very disappointing.=20
>>>>>>>> I'm  considering trying bucket type Buick lifters with longer push r=
ods and a new cam.
>>>>>>>> Does anyone have experience with the durability of the old Buick li=
fters ... getting a little desperate here.
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/arch=
ive
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michael=
[email-masked]
> --=20
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/archi=
ve
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/healeygu=
[email-masked]

--Apple-Mail-ADDE0BBA-665B-4CC5-9F5A-AA181D690A7A
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">I think the real difference between the buc=
ket lifters and the stock units is the actual weight of the lifters.&nbsp;<d=
iv><br></div><div>There may be some impact on lifter bore wear due to the si=
de loads of the pushrods at a higher contact point on stock lifters compared=
 to the bucket type but is probably minimal. Was that vague enough?&nbsp;</d=
iv><div>P<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir=3D"ltr">=
<br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Aug 9, 2021, at 7:36 AM, Michael Oritt &lt;=
[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote typ=
e=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_de=
fault" style=3D"color:#3333ff">Bob--</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"color:#3333ff"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:#33=
33ff">I should have added that this incident coincided with a recent lowerin=
g by DOT of lead and zinc contents and what might have been fine a year earl=
ier&nbsp;was no longer&nbsp;sufficient to protect the new cam and lifters.&n=
bsp; I'll certainly&nbsp;plead guilty to the sometimes-specious thinking tha=
t&nbsp;"more is better", but on the other hand "less" is sometimes not enoug=
h, and therein lies the dilemma.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"=
color:#3333ff"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:#3333ff=
">Best--Michael Oritt</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"=
ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 11:00 PM Bob Spidell via He=
aleys &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</=
a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px=
 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
 =20
   =20
 =20
  <div>
    Subject to debate. The literature I've seen from the oil companies
    stress that their products are carefully formulated, and adding
    anything to them is not a good idea. Also, ZDDP was first used as a
    detergent, with its wear surface protection a surprising side-effect
    (like how tetra-ethyl lead was added to gas to increase octane
    rating, and its cushioning and protecting of valve seats was a
    side-effect). But, it's human nature to think "If a little of this
    is good, a lot HAS to be better," but it's not necessarily true.
    ZDDP is corrosive in high concentrations; the 'sweet spot' appears
    to be about 1,500PPM. <br>
    <br>
    Ordinarily, I'd attribute Michael's failed lifters (cam?) to
    improper break-in, but I'm sure M used proper procedures, which
    makes this doubly mysterious and concerning. I don't know how bucket
    lifters would change the outcome; their main benefit seems to be
    reduced wear of the block.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div>On 8/8/2021 6:19 PM, i erbs via Healeys
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
     =20
      <div dir=3D"auto">Good practice<br>
        <br>
        <div>Ira Erbs<br>
          1959 AH 100-6<br>
          1967 MGB<br>
          Milwaukie, OR</div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class=3D"gmail_quote">
        <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 8, 2021, 6:09 PM
          Alan Seigrist &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D=
"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;=
border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
          <div dir=3D"ltr">So adding zddp on top of whatever is in there
            is okay?&nbsp; I have Castrol 20W-50 in my motor... also use the=

            Valvoline too.</div>
          <br>
          <div class=3D"gmail_quote">
            <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at
              11:11 PM Michael Oritt via Healeys &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:heale=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
et</a>&gt;
              wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.=
8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
              <div dir=3D"ltr">
                <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)">=
In
                  about 2007 just before ZDDP content in motor oils
                  became a commonly talked-about issue in vintage racing
                  communities, I bought a new race engine for my
                  MGA-powered Elva Courier from a reputable builder who
                  recommended&nbsp;I use Mobil 1.&nbsp; Somewhere during the=
 first
                  race weekend performance fell off and upon disassembly
                  it was determined that the cam lobes had been damaged
                  due to wear from the lifters.&nbsp;&nbsp;</div>
                <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)">=
<br>
                </div>
                <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)">=
After
                  replacing the cam and lifters I began&nbsp;using RP racing=

                  oil and throwing in ZDDP additive for good measure.&nbsp;
                  Though the Royal Purple probably contained sufficient
                  zddp on its own and some folks cautioned&nbsp;against too
                  high levels of zinc I have&nbsp; continued this combinatio=
n
                  and have not lost a cam, etc. since.</div>
                <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)">=
<br>
                </div>
                <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)">=
YMMV....&nbsp;&nbsp;</div>
              </div>
              <br>
              <div class=3D"gmail_quote">
                <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at=

                  11:16 PM Michael Salter &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:michaelsalte=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a=
>&gt;
                  wrote:<br>
                </div>
                <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0p=
x 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                  <div dir=3D"auto">The first sign of problems was having
                    to adjust the tappets which had initially been
                    silent after 2000 miles and then again at 4500.
                    <div dir=3D"auto">After adjusting they were still
                      audible and had previously been silent.</div>
                    <div dir=3D"auto">Then at the 2000 and 4000 mile oil
                      changes there was "fir" in the drain plug magnet.</div=
                    <div dir=3D"auto">I'm very disappointed to have
                      destroyed a very low mileage "M" cam and a set of
                      NOS lifters that I had been saving for decades.</div>
                    <div dir=3D"auto">I'm seriously considering having
                      silicon nitride lifters manufactured but at over
                      $1000 a set its a serious investment.</div>
                    <div dir=3D"auto"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div dir=3D"auto">M</div>
                  </div>
                  <br>
                  <div class=3D"gmail_quote">
                    <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed., Aug. 4,
                      2021, 10:47 a.m. Steven Kingsbury, &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">airt=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                      wrote:<br>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0p=
x 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                      <div>
                        <div>I just rebuilt my 100 engine and purchased
                          my lifters from AH Spares in the UK. These
                          were their new design for better oil flow. I
                          now have 1000 miles or so on the new engine
                          and once I got my problems figured out with my
                          distributor, the car is running well and
                          smooth.</div>
                        <div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Now I'm wondering when the ot=
her shoe is
                          going to drop! What problems did you have
                          pointing you to the lifters as the source of
                          those problems? When I retorqued the head, I
                          readjusted the rockers and found no problems.
                          They were a little off, but I expected a
                          little.</div>
                        <div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;What should I be looking for?=
 I used
                          Driven Break In oil and then I switched to VR1
                          like you after 500 miles. I have been driving
                          the car to build up some trust in it and it's
                          turning in to a joy to drive. I've got M mods
                          on this engine, cam, H6 carbs, M pistons and
                          these new lifters. So far, so good.&nbsp;</div>
                        <div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Thanks for your help,</div>
                        <div>Steven Kingsbury</div>
                        <div>BN1</div>
                        <div><br>
                          On August 3, 2021 at 5:19 PM, Michael Salter
                          via Healeys &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
am.net" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
et</a>&gt;
                          wrote:<br>
                          <br>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <blockquote type=3D"cite">
                            <div>
                              <div dir=3D"auto">After only 6000 miles the
                                NOS BMC lifters that I installed in my
                                engine with a very low mileage "M" cam
                                have started to deteriorate.&nbsp;
                                <div dir=3D"auto">This engine has had a
                                  steady diet of VR1 non synthetic and
                                  it has had 4 changes in 6K miles.&nbsp;</d=
iv>
                                <div dir=3D"auto">Very disappointing.&nbsp;<=
/div>
                                <div dir=3D"auto">I'm&nbsp; considering tryi=
ng
                                  bucket type Buick lifters with longer
                                  push rods and a new cam.</div>
                                <div dir=3D"auto">Does anyone have
                                  experience with the durability of the
                                  old Buick lifters ... getting a little
                                  desperate here.</div>
                                <div dir=3D"auto">Fortunately I caught
                                  this issue before it ruined the
                                  engine.</div>
                                <div dir=3D"auto"><br>
                                </div>
                                <div dir=3D"auto">M</div>
                              </div>
                              <br>
                            </div>
                          </blockquote>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </blockquote>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </div>

_______________________________________________<br>
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<br>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" c=
lass=3D"gmail_signature"><font color=3D"#3333ff">Best--Michael</font></div>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Suppor=
t Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html</span><br><span>Suggested annual d=
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[email-masked]

--===============5274138657106074645==--

---

From: i erbs <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2021 07:50:37 -0700

--===============2520465121997158409==

--000000000000d667a305c92182ee

I use Kendel 20/50 race oils with higher zinc, or other non street race
oils for many years in my car. So far so good

Ira Erbs
1959 AH 100-6
1967 MGB
Milwaukie, OR

On Mon, Aug 9, 2021, 4:21 AM Michael Oritt <[email-masked]> wrote:

>>>>>>    What should I be looking for? I used Driven Break In oil and then
>>>>>> I switched to VR1 like you after 500 miles. I have been driving the car to

--000000000000d667a305c92182ee
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"auto"><div>I use Kendel 20/50 race oils with higher zinc, or ot=
her non street race oils for many years in my car. So far so good<br><br><d=
iv data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature">Ira Erbs<br>1959 AH 100-6<br>1967 MGB=
<br>Milwaukie, OR</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" clas=
s=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 9, 2021, 4:21 AM Michael Oritt &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><=
/div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-le=
ft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_de=
fault" style=3D"color:#3333ff">Bob--</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" styl=
e=3D"color:#3333ff"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:#=
3333ff">I should have added that this incident coincided with a recent lowe=
ring by DOT of lead and zinc contents and what might have been fine a year =
earlier=C2=A0was no longer=C2=A0sufficient to protect the new cam and lifte=
rs.=C2=A0 I&#39;ll certainly=C2=A0plead guilty to the sometimes-specious th=
inking that=C2=A0&quot;more is better&quot;, but on the other hand &quot;le=
ss&quot; is sometimes not enough, and therein lies the dilemma.</div><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:#3333ff"><br></div><div class=3D"gmai=
l_default" style=3D"color:#3333ff">Best--Michael Oritt</div></div><br><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 8, =
2021 at 11:00 PM Bob Spidell via Healeys &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@auto=
x.team.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]</a>=
&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
 =20
   =20
 =20
  <div>
    Subject to debate. The literature I&#39;ve seen from the oil companies
    stress that their products are carefully formulated, and adding
    anything to them is not a good idea. Also, ZDDP was first used as a
    detergent, with its wear surface protection a surprising side-effect
    (like how tetra-ethyl lead was added to gas to increase octane
    rating, and its cushioning and protecting of valve seats was a
    side-effect). But, it&#39;s human nature to think &quot;If a little of =
this
    is good, a lot HAS to be better,&quot; but it&#39;s not necessarily tru=
e.
    ZDDP is corrosive in high concentrations; the &#39;sweet spot&#39; appe=
ars
    to be about 1,500PPM. <br>
    <br>
    Ordinarily, I&#39;d attribute Michael&#39;s failed lifters (cam?) to
    improper break-in, but I&#39;m sure M used proper procedures, which
    makes this doubly mysterious and concerning. I don&#39;t know how bucke=
t
    lifters would change the outcome; their main benefit seems to be
    reduced wear of the block.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div>On 8/8/2021 6:19 PM, i erbs via Healeys
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
     =20
      <div dir=3D"auto">Good practice<br>
        <br>
        <div>Ira Erbs<br>
          1959 AH 100-6<br>
          1967 MGB<br>
          Milwaukie, OR</div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class=3D"gmail_quote">
        <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 8, 2021, 6:09 PM
          Alan Seigrist &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=
=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
          <div dir=3D"ltr">So adding zddp on top of whatever is in there
            is okay?=C2=A0 I have Castrol 20W-50 in my motor... also use th=
e
            Valvoline too.</div>
          <br>
          <div class=3D"gmail_quote">
            <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at
              11:11 PM Michael Oritt via Healeys &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:heal=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">healeys=
@autox.team.net</a>&gt;
              wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0=
.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
              <div dir=3D"ltr">
                <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)"=
                </div>
                </div>
              </div>
              <br>
[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">michaelsalter=
@gmail.com</a>&gt;
lto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D=
"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
eam.net" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">healeys=
@autox.team.net</a>&gt;

</blockquote></div></div></div>

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--===============2520465121997158409==--

---

From: Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2021 09:11:09 -0700

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--===============6150401360904663439==
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Unless there's been another one, the reduction in ZDDP in thinner 
viscosity oils happened years ago, coincident with catalytic converters 
being installed on, well, pretty much every car. Supposedly, thicker 
oils, like 20W-50 were allowed to keep higher levels, since no modern 
cars use such a thick oil (BMW apparently excepted). Does anyone know if 
the levels were reduced again? Some brands, like Castrol and Valvoline, 
have advertised their ZDDP levels to capitalize on this market.

According to this, the additive package in VR1 was 'reformulated' (also, 
it's the 'P'--phosphorous--in ZDDP that provides the anti-wear aspect):

https://www.valvoline.com/about-us/faq/racing-oil-faq

On 8/9/2021 4:20 AM, Michael Oritt wrote:
> Bob--
>
> I should have added that this incident coincided with a recent 
> lowering by DOT of lead and zinc contents and what might have been 
> fine a year earlier was no longer sufficient to protect the new cam 
> and lifters.  I'll certainly plead guilty to the sometimes-specious 
> thinking that "more is better", but on the other hand "less" is 
> sometimes not enough, and therein lies the dilemma.
>
> Best--Michael Oritt
>
> On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 11:00 PM Bob Spidell via Healeys 
>
>     anything to them is not a good idea. Also, ZDDP was first used as
>     a detergent, with its wear surface protection a surprising
>     side-effect (like how tetra-ethyl lead was added to gas to
>     increase octane rating, and its cushioning and protecting of valve
>     seats was a side-effect). But, it's human nature to think "If a
>     little of this is good, a lot HAS to be better," but it's not
>     necessarily true. ZDDP is corrosive in high concentrations; the
>     'sweet spot' appears to be about 1,500PPM.
>
>     makes this doubly mysterious and concerning. I don't know how
>     bucket lifters would change the outcome; their main benefit seems
>     to be reduced wear of the block.
>
>
>>         So adding zddp on top of whatever is in there is okay?  I
>>         have Castrol 20W-50 in my motor... also use the Valvoline too.
>>
>>             In about 2007 just before ZDDP content in motor oils
>>             race weekend performance fell off and upon disassembly it
>>             was determined that the cam lobes had been damaged due to
>>             wear from the lifters.
>>
>>             After replacing the cam and lifters I began using RP
>>             racing oil and throwing in ZDDP additive for good
>>             measure.  Though the Royal Purple probably contained
>>             sufficient zddp on its own and some folks
>>             cautioned against too high levels of zinc I have 
>>             <[email-masked]
>>                 tappets which had initially been silent after 2000
>>                 miles and then again at 4500.
>>                 Then at the 2000 and 4000 mile oil changes there was
>>                 "fir" in the drain plug magnet.
>>                 I'm very disappointed to have destroyed a very low
>>                 mileage "M" cam and a set of NOS lifters that I had
>>                 been saving for decades.
>>                 I'm seriously considering having silicon nitride
>>                 lifters manufactured but at over $1000 a set its a
>>                 serious investment.
>>
>>                 M
>>
>>                     I just rebuilt my 100 engine and purchased my
>>                     lifters from AH Spares in the UK. These were
>>                     their new design for better oil flow. I now have
>>                     1000 miles or so on the new engine and once I got
>>                     my problems figured out with my distributor, the
>>                     car is running well and smooth.
>>                        Now I'm wondering when the other shoe is going
>>                     to drop! What problems did you have pointing you
>>                     to the lifters as the source of those problems?
>>                     When I retorqued the head, I readjusted the
>>                     rockers and found no problems. They were a little
>>                     off, but I expected a little.
>>                        What should I be looking for? I used Driven
>>                     Break In oil and then I switched to VR1 like you
>>                     after 500 miles. I have been driving the car to
>>                     build up some trust in it and it's turning in to
>>                     a joy to drive. I've got M mods on this engine,
>>                     cam, H6 carbs, M pistons and these new lifters.
>>                     So far, so good.
>>                        Thanks for your help,
>>                     Steven Kingsbury
>>                     BN1
>>
>>>                     installed in my engine with a very low mileage
>>>                     "M" cam have started to deteriorate.
>>>                     I'm  considering trying bucket type Buick
>>>                     lifters with longer push rods and a new cam.
>>>                     Does anyone have experience with the durability
>>>                     of the old Buick lifters ... getting a little
>>>                     desperate here.

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    Unless there's been another one, the reduction in ZDDP in thinner
    viscosity oils happened years ago, coincident with catalytic
    converters being installed on, well, pretty much every car.
    Supposedly, thicker oils, like 20W-50 were allowed to keep higher
    levels, since no modern cars use such a thick oil (BMW apparently
    excepted). Does anyone know if the levels were reduced again? Some
    brands, like Castrol and Valvoline, have advertised their ZDDP
    levels to capitalize on this market. <br>
    <br>
    According to this, the additive package in VR1 was 'reformulated'
    (also, it's the 'P'--phosphorous--in ZDDP that provides the
    anti-wear aspect):<br>
    <br>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.valvoline.com/about-us/faq/racing-oil-faq">https://www.valvoline.com/about-us/faq/racing-oil-faq</a><br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/9/2021 4:20 AM, Michael Oritt
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAPTa0B5Rcrge1SwcUYrroNXHS-QQ0jvCKsHnYdJ=[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div class="gmail_default" style="color:#3333ff">Bob--</div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="color:#3333ff"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="color:#3333ff">I should have
          added that this incident coincided with a recent lowering by
          DOT of lead and zinc contents and what might have been fine a
          year earlier was no longer sufficient to protect the new cam
          and lifters.  I'll certainly plead guilty to the
          sometimes-specious thinking that "more is better", but on the
          other hand "less" is sometimes not enough, and therein lies
          the dilemma.</div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="color:#3333ff"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="color:#3333ff">Best--Michael
          Oritt</div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 11:00
          PM Bob Spidell via Healeys &lt;<a
            href="mailto:[email-masked]" moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
          wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
          0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
          <div> Subject to debate. The literature I've seen from the oil
            companies stress that their products are carefully
            formulated, and adding anything to them is not a good idea.
            Also, ZDDP was first used as a detergent, with its wear
            surface protection a surprising side-effect (like how
            tetra-ethyl lead was added to gas to increase octane rating,
            and its cushioning and protecting of valve seats was a
            side-effect). But, it's human nature to think "If a little
            of this is good, a lot HAS to be better," but it's not
            necessarily true. ZDDP is corrosive in high concentrations;
            the 'sweet spot' appears to be about 1,500PPM. <br>
            <br>
            Ordinarily, I'd attribute Michael's failed lifters (cam?) to
            improper break-in, but I'm sure M used proper procedures,
            which makes this doubly mysterious and concerning. I don't
            know how bucket lifters would change the outcome; their main
            benefit seems to be reduced wear of the block.<br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <div>On 8/8/2021 6:19 PM, i erbs via Healeys wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <div dir="auto">Good practice<br>
                <br>
                <div>Ira Erbs<br>
                  1959 AH 100-6<br>
                  1967 MGB<br>
                  Milwaukie, OR</div>
              </div>
              <br>
              <div class="gmail_quote">
                <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 8, 2021,
                  6:09 PM Alan Seigrist &lt;<a
                    href="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                  wrote:<br>
                </div>
                <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
                  0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                  rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                  <div dir="ltr">So adding zddp on top of whatever is in
                    there is okay?  I have Castrol 20W-50 in my motor...
                    also use the Valvoline too.</div>
                  <br>
                  <div class="gmail_quote">
                    <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Aug 7,
                      2021 at 11:11 PM Michael Oritt via Healeys &lt;<a
                        href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                        rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                      wrote:<br>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
                      0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                      rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                      <div dir="ltr">
                        <div class="gmail_default"
                          style="color:rgb(51,51,255)">In about 2007
                          just before ZDDP content in motor oils became
                          a commonly talked-about issue in vintage
                          racing communities, I bought a new race engine
                          for my MGA-powered Elva Courier from a
                          reputable builder who recommended I use Mobil
                          1.  Somewhere during the first race weekend
                          performance fell off and upon disassembly it
                          was determined that the cam lobes had been
                          damaged due to wear from the lifters.  </div>
                        <div class="gmail_default"
                          style="color:rgb(51,51,255)"><br>
                        </div>
                        <div class="gmail_default"
                          style="color:rgb(51,51,255)">After replacing
                          the cam and lifters I began using RP racing
                          oil and throwing in ZDDP additive for good
                          measure.  Though the Royal Purple probably
                          contained sufficient zddp on its own and some
                          folks cautioned against too high levels of
                          zinc I have  continued this combination and
                          have not lost a cam, etc. since.</div>
                        <div class="gmail_default"
                          style="color:rgb(51,51,255)"><br>
                        </div>
                        <div class="gmail_default"
                          style="color:rgb(51,51,255)">YMMV....  </div>
                      </div>
                      <br>
                      <div class="gmail_quote">
                        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Aug 5,
                          2021 at 11:16 PM Michael Salter &lt;<a
                            href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                            rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                            moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                          wrote:<br>
                        </div>
                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                          style="margin:0px 0px 0px
                          0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                          rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                          <div dir="auto">The first sign of problems was
                            having to adjust the tappets which had
                            initially been silent after 2000 miles and
                            then again at 4500.
                            <div dir="auto">After adjusting they were
                              still audible and had previously been
                              silent.</div>
                            <div dir="auto">Then at the 2000 and 4000
                              mile oil changes there was "fir" in the
                              drain plug magnet.</div>
                            <div dir="auto">I'm very disappointed to
                              have destroyed a very low mileage "M" cam
                              and a set of NOS lifters that I had been
                              saving for decades.</div>
                            <div dir="auto">I'm seriously considering
                              having silicon nitride lifters
                              manufactured but at over $1000 a set its a
                              serious investment.</div>
                            <div dir="auto"><br>
                            </div>
                            <div dir="auto">M</div>
                          </div>
                          <br>
                          <div class="gmail_quote">
                            <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed.,
                              Aug. 4, 2021, 10:47 a.m. Steven Kingsbury,
                              &lt;<a
                                href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                                rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                                moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                              wrote:<br>
                            </div>
                            <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                              style="margin:0px 0px 0px
                              0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                              rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                              <div>
                                <div>I just rebuilt my 100 engine and
                                  purchased my lifters from AH Spares in
                                  the UK. These were their new design
                                  for better oil flow. I now have 1000
                                  miles or so on the new engine and once
                                  I got my problems figured out with my
                                  distributor, the car is running well
                                  and smooth.</div>
                                <div>   Now I'm wondering when the other
                                  shoe is going to drop! What problems
                                  did you have pointing you to the
                                  lifters as the source of those
                                  problems? When I retorqued the head, I
                                  readjusted the rockers and found no
                                  problems. They were a little off, but
                                  I expected a little.</div>
                                <div>   What should I be looking for? I
                                  used Driven Break In oil and then I
                                  switched to VR1 like you after 500
                                  miles. I have been driving the car to
                                  build up some trust in it and it's
                                  turning in to a joy to drive. I've got
                                  M mods on this engine, cam, H6 carbs,
                                  M pistons and these new lifters. So
                                  far, so good. </div>
                                <div>   Thanks for your help,</div>
                                <div>Steven Kingsbury</div>
                                <div>BN1</div>
                                <div><br>
                                  On August 3, 2021 at 5:19 PM, Michael
                                  Salter via Healeys &lt;<a
                                    href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                                    rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
                                    target="_blank"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                                  wrote:<br>
                                  <br>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <blockquote type="cite">
                                    <div>
                                      <div dir="auto">After only 6000
                                        miles the NOS BMC lifters that I
                                        installed in my engine with a
                                        very low mileage "M" cam have
                                        started to deteriorate. 
                                        <div dir="auto">This engine has
                                          had a steady diet of VR1 non
                                          synthetic and it has had 4
                                          changes in 6K miles. </div>
                                        <div dir="auto">Very
                                          disappointing. </div>
                                        <div dir="auto">I'm  considering
                                          trying bucket type Buick
                                          lifters with longer push rods
                                          and a new cam.</div>
                                        <div dir="auto">Does anyone have
                                          experience with the durability
                                          of the old Buick lifters ...
                                          getting a little desperate
                                          here.</div>
                                        <div dir="auto">Fortunately I
                                          caught this issue before it
                                          ruined the engine.</div>
                                        <div dir="auto"><br>
                                        </div>
                                        <div dir="auto">M</div>
                                      </div>
                                      <br>
                                    </div>
                                  </blockquote>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </blockquote>
                          </div>
                        </blockquote>
                      </div>
                    </blockquote>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
            <br>
          </div>
          <br>
        </blockquote>
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[email-masked]

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---

From: Alan Seigrist via Healeys <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2021 17:20:26 +0800

--0000000000007f189005c9593fa4

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Looks like the ZDDP level in VR1 20w50 is pretty good at 1,400 ppm

>>>>> Fortunately I caught this issue before it ruined the engine.

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Looks like the ZDDP level in VR1 20w50 is pretty good at 1=
,400 ppm<div><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr=
" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 11:01 AM Bob Spidell via Heal=
eys &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a=
                </div>
                </div>
              </div>
              <br>

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[email-masked]

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---

From: Michael Salter via Healeys <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2021 12:32:28 -0400

--===============2063877719858527732==

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For those who may still be following this thread the Buick lifters weigh 78
gm and the standard Austin Healey100 ones 122 gm.
Of course the additional weight of the longer pushrods must be added to the
Buick weight to get a true picture and that is 21 gm for the sets I have.
Obviously the reduction in reciprocating weight is around 23 gm.
For those interested I'm considering several options.

   1. Having the cam and lifters reground and reground and re heat treated.
   2. Using the Buick lifters and pushrods but installing slightly lower
   load valve springs. My logic is that I have never run this engine up to
   anything like valve bounce, in fact I've never heard valve bounce in a 1=
00
   engine, so decreasing the seat pressure a little should not present a
   problem.
   3. Installing roller lifters and cam. Probably not going to fly because
   of the prohibitive cost and not much information available on durability=
.
   4. Very radical but having a set of silicon nitride capped lifters made.
   I have done considerable research into this option and, although it is v=
ery
   expensive and somewhat experimental, the results reported by those who h=
ave
   been using such lifters are very good, actually phenomenal. ( I should
   mention that some of the earlier silicone nitride capped lifters failed
   with disastrous results).

Although option 4. will probably cost something around $1K my logic is that
this is the second time this failure has happened to me so with the cost
engine rebuilds today the $1K may be good insurance. I have a friend who
races a very competitive mini who has been using a set of silicon nitride
tipped lifters for several years and despite numerous engine failures has
never experienced a cam lobe or lifter failure.

I'm interested in anyone's constructive input.
M

On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 8:13 AM Perry Small via Healeys <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> I think the real difference between the bucket lifters and the stock unit=
s
> is the actual weight of the lifters.
>
> There may be some impact on lifter bore wear due to the side loads of the
> pushrods at a higher contact point on stock lifters compared to the bucke=
t
> type but is probably minimal. Was that vague enough?
> P
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 9, 2021, at 7:36 AM, Michael Oritt <[email-masked]> wrote=
:
>
> =EF=BB=BF
> Bob--
>
> I should have added that this incident coincided with a recent lowering b=
y
> earlier was no longer sufficient to protect the new cam and lifters.  I'l=
l
> better", but on the other hand "less" is sometimes not enough, and therei=
n
>> Subject to debate. The literature I've seen from the oil companies stres=
s
>> that their products are carefully formulated, and adding anything to the=
m
>> is not a good idea. Also, ZDDP was first used as a detergent, with its w=
ear
>> surface protection a surprising side-effect (like how tetra-ethyl lead w=
as
>> added to gas to increase octane rating, and its cushioning and protectin=
g
>> little of this is good, a lot HAS to be better," but it's not necessaril=
y
>> true. ZDDP is corrosive in high concentrations; the 'sweet spot' appears=
 to
>> mysterious and concerning. I don't know how bucket lifters would change =
the
>>>> performance fell off and upon disassembly it was determined that the c=
am
>>>> On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at 11:16 PM Michael Salter <[email-masked]=
m>
t.
>>>>> I'm very disappointed to have destroyed a very low mileage "M" cam an=
d
>>>>>> in the UK. These were their new design for better oil flow. I now ha=
ve 1000
>>>>>> miles or so on the new engine and once I got my problems figured out=
 with
>>>>>> problems did you have pointing you to the lifters as the source of t=
hose
>>>>>> problems? When I retorqued the head, I readjusted the rockers and fo=
und no
>>>>>> I switched to VR1 like you after 500 miles. I have been driving the =
car to
>>>>>> build up some trust in it and it's turning in to a joy to drive. I'v=
e got M
>>>>>> mods on this engine, cam, H6 carbs, M pistons and these new lifters.=
 So
>>>>>> This engine has had a steady diet of VR1 non synthetic and it has ha=
d
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]
>
>

--000000000000922e9a05c95f4875
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sa=
ns-serif;font-size:small">For those who may still be following this thread =
the Buick lifters weigh 78 gm and the standard Austin Healey100 ones 122 gm=
. <br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-se=
rif;font-size:small">Of course the additional weight of the longer pushrods=
 must be added to the Buick weight to get a true picture and that is 21 gm =
for the sets I have.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family=
:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">Obviously the reduction in reciprocating=
 weight is around 23 gm. <br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fo=
nt-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">For those interested I&#39;m co=
nsidering several options.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-=
family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small"><ol><li>Having the cam and lifters=
 reground and reground and re heat treated.<br></li><li>Using the Buick lif=
ters and pushrods but installing slightly lower load valve springs. My logi=
c is that I have never run this engine up to anything like valve bounce, in=
 fact I&#39;ve never heard valve bounce in a 100 engine, so decreasing the =
seat pressure a little should not present a problem.</li><li>Installing rol=
ler lifters and cam. Probably not going to fly because of the prohibitive c=
ost and not much information available on durability.<br></li><li>Very radi=
cal but having a set of silicon nitride capped lifters made. I have done co=
nsiderable research into this option and, although it is very expensive and=
 somewhat experimental, the results reported by those who have been using s=
uch lifters are very good, actually phenomenal. ( I should mention that som=
e of the earlier silicone nitride capped lifters failed with disastrous res=
ults).</li></ol><div>Although option 4. will probably cost something around=
 $1K my logic is that this is the second time this failure has happened to =
me so with the cost engine rebuilds today the $1K may be good insurance. I =
have a friend who races a very competitive mini who has been using a set of=
 silicon nitride tipped lifters for several years and despite numerous engi=
ne failures has never experienced a cam lobe or lifter failure.</div><div><=
br></div><div>I&#39;m interested in anyone&#39;s constructive input.</div><=
div>M<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div><br><div class=3D"=
gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 8=
:13 AM Perry Small via Healeys &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204=
,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">I think the real difference betwe=
en the bucket lifters and the stock units is the actual weight of the lifte=
rs.=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>There may be some impact on lifter bore wear d=
ue to the side loads of the pushrods at a higher contact point on stock lif=
ters compared to the bucket type but is probably minimal. Was that vague en=
ough?=C2=A0</div><div>P<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Aug 9, 2021, at 7:36 AM, Mi=
chael Oritt &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank=
">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockqu=
ote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"=
gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)">Bob--</div><div class=3D"gmai=
l_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_def=
ault" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)">I should have added that this incident=
 coincided with a recent lowering by DOT of lead and zinc contents and what=
 might have been fine a year earlier=C2=A0was no longer=C2=A0sufficient to =
protect the new cam and lifters.=C2=A0 I&#39;ll certainly=C2=A0plead guilty=
 to the sometimes-specious thinking that=C2=A0&quot;more is better&quot;, b=
ut on the other hand &quot;less&quot; is sometimes not enough, and therein =
lies the dilemma.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,5=
1,255)"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255=
)">Best--Michael Oritt</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=
=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 11:00 PM Bob Spidell v=
ia Healeys &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,2=
04);padding-left:1ex">
 =20
   =20
 =20
  <div>
    Subject to debate. The literature I&#39;ve seen from the oil companies
    stress that their products are carefully formulated, and adding
    anything to them is not a good idea. Also, ZDDP was first used as a
    detergent, with its wear surface protection a surprising side-effect
    (like how tetra-ethyl lead was added to gas to increase octane
    rating, and its cushioning and protecting of valve seats was a
    side-effect). But, it&#39;s human nature to think &quot;If a little of =
this
    is good, a lot HAS to be better,&quot; but it&#39;s not necessarily tru=
e.
    ZDDP is corrosive in high concentrations; the &#39;sweet spot&#39; appe=
ars
    to be about 1,500PPM. <br>
    <br>
    Ordinarily, I&#39;d attribute Michael&#39;s failed lifters (cam?) to
    improper break-in, but I&#39;m sure M used proper procedures, which
    makes this doubly mysterious and concerning. I don&#39;t know how bucke=
t
    lifters would change the outcome; their main benefit seems to be
    reduced wear of the block.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div>On 8/8/2021 6:19 PM, i erbs via Healeys
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
     =20
      <div dir=3D"auto">Good practice<br>
        <br>
        <div>Ira Erbs<br>
          1959 AH 100-6<br>
          1967 MGB<br>
          Milwaukie, OR</div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class=3D"gmail_quote">
        <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 8, 2021, 6:09 PM
          Alan Seigrist &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=
=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
          <div dir=3D"ltr">So adding zddp on top of whatever is in there
            is okay?=C2=A0 I have Castrol 20W-50 in my motor... also use th=
e
            Valvoline too.</div>
          <br>
          <div class=3D"gmail_quote">
            <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at
              11:11 PM Michael Oritt via Healeys &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:heal=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
.net</a>&gt;
              wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0=
.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
              <div dir=3D"ltr">
                <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)"=
                </div>
                </div>
              </div>
              <br>

><font color=3D"#3333ff">Best--Michael</font></div>
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