Subject: Re: [Healeys] Brake Fluid -- Silicone vs. glycol

From: "'bluehealey'" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2021 12:54:46 +0100

Now that is a perfect checklist Simon. Captures everything you need to know. 
In addition I work on the basis that glycol mixtures, if neglected (not flushed) for more than 3-4 years, can cause minor problems with the hardware. 
Silicone, if neglected for a similar period, can cause major problems with the hardware. 
Guess which I choose to use. 

AlanB - iPhone message.

> On 26 Jul 2021, at 09:57, Simon Lachlan via Healeys <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> I was getting myself in a muddle over brake fluid once so I made myself some
> notes. Probably pinched from Google; I don't recall:-
> 
> 1)    All brake fluid is "synthetic".it's not a "natural" product.
> 2)    Most synthetic fluids are NOT silicone. They are polyethylene glycol
> ether based.
> 3)    DOT 3 & 4, which can be mixed, are not silicone. They are glycol.
> 4)    DOT 5, which cannot be mixed with 3 or 4, is silicone. Can't be
> mixed with anything!
> 5)    DOT 5.1 is glycol based and cannot be mixed with DOT 5.
> 6)    DOT 5.1 can be mixed with DOT 3 or 4, as both are glycol based.
> 
> The word "synthetic" began to appear when manufacturers worked out that it
> made regular brake fluid sound more special ie they could charge us more
> money for the same old stuff.
> 
> DOT stands for Dept. Of Transport and relates to the fluids' boiling points.
> If a car brakes at high speed, the brakes get hot. Some heat is carried away
> from the brakes by the brake fluid. Bad news if the fluid boils! The faster
> you're going, the higher DOT you need. Higher DOT numbers indicate higher
> boiling points for "Dry" fluid (has not absorbed any water) and "Wet" fluids
> (has absorbed water). ie, the wetter it is, the more problematic it becomes.
> Mixing 3 with 4 lowers the boiling points and vice verca.
> 
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> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
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From: Roger Grace via Healeys <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2021 13:25:15 -0700

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Does anyone have an opinion as to the accuracy of those cheepo pen style
brake fluid moisture detectors ?
You dip the probes into the reservoir and they give led indication for
range % moisture present.
Just wondering ... ??
rg

On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 4:55 AM bluehealey <[email-masked]> wrote:

> In addition I work on the basis that glycol mixtures, if neglected (not
> flushed) for more than 3-4 years, can cause minor problems with the
> hardware.
> Silicone, if neglected for a similar period, can cause major problems wit=
h
> the hardware.
> > =EF=BB=BF
> > made regular brake fluid sound more special ie they could charge us mor=
e
> > you're going, the higher DOT you need. Higher DOT numbers indicate high=
er
> > Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]
> >
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]
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>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Does anyone have an opinion as to the accuracy of tho=
se cheepo pen style brake fluid moisture detectors ?</div><div>You dip the =
probes into the reservoir and they give led indication for range % moisture=
 present.</div><div>Just wondering ... ??</div><div>rg<br></div></div><br><=
div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul=
 26, 2021 at 4:55 AM bluehealey &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
>[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,20=
4);padding-left:1ex">Now that is a perfect checklist Simon. Captures everyt=
hing you need to know. <br>
In addition I work on the basis that glycol mixtures, if neglected (not flu=
shed) for more than 3-4 years, can cause minor problems with the hardware. =
<br>
Silicone, if neglected for a similar period, can cause major problems with =
the hardware. <br>
Guess which I choose to use. <br>
<br>
AlanB - iPhone message.<br>
<br>
&gt; On 26 Jul 2021, at 09:57, Simon Lachlan via Healeys &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt=
; wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; =EF=BB=BF<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; I was getting myself in a muddle over brake fluid once so I made mysel=
f some<br>
&gt; notes. Probably pinched from Google; I don&#39;t recall:-<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; 1)=C2=A0 =C2=A0 All brake fluid is &quot;synthetic&quot;.it&#39;s not =
a &quot;natural&quot; product.<br>
&gt; 2)=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Most synthetic fluids are NOT silicone. They are polye=
thylene glycol<br>
&gt; ether based.<br>
&gt; 3)=C2=A0 =C2=A0 DOT 3 &amp; 4, which can be mixed, are not silicone. T=
hey are glycol.<br>
&gt; 4)=C2=A0 =C2=A0 DOT 5, which cannot be mixed with 3 or 4, is silicone.=
 Can&#39;t be<br>
&gt; mixed with anything!<br>
&gt; 5)=C2=A0 =C2=A0 DOT 5.1 is glycol based and cannot be mixed with DOT 5=
.<br>
&gt; 6)=C2=A0 =C2=A0 DOT 5.1 can be mixed with DOT 3 or 4, as both are glyc=
ol based.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; The word &quot;synthetic&quot; began to appear when manufacturers work=
ed out that it<br>
&gt; made regular brake fluid sound more special ie they could charge us mo=
re<br>
&gt; money for the same old stuff.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; DOT stands for Dept. Of Transport and relates to the fluids&#39; boili=
ng points.<br>
&gt; If a car brakes at high speed, the brakes get hot. Some heat is carrie=
d away<br>
&gt; from the brakes by the brake fluid. Bad news if the fluid boils! The f=
aster<br>
&gt; you&#39;re going, the higher DOT you need. Higher DOT numbers indicate=
 higher<br>
&gt; boiling points for &quot;Dry&quot; fluid (has not absorbed any water) =
and &quot;Wet&quot; fluids<br>
&gt; (has absorbed water). ie, the wetter it is, the more problematic it be=
comes.<br>
&gt; Mixing 3 with 4 lowers the boiling points and vice verca.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; Support Team.Net <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" rel=3D"no=
referrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
&gt; Suggested annual donation=C2=A0 $12.75<br>
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</blockquote></div>

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[email-masked]

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From: Richard Collins via Healeys <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2021 21:16:33 +0000

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[email-masked]

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From: Stephen Hutchings via Healeys <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 12:18:00 -0400

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I=E2=80=99ve used DOT 5 silicone fluid for many years, and no problems.
My only reservation with it is - if something goes wrong with your servo, th=
e fluid will be sucked through the manifold into the engine, and you don=E2=80=
=99t want that!
I=E2=80=99ve changed the size of my master cylinder and bypassed the servo s=
o that I can continue to use DOT 5. Again, no problems, but I do tend to do s=
ome work on the brakes often enough to change the fluid within the required p=
eriod.

Stephen, BJ8

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 26, 2021, at 5:16 PM, Richard Collins via Healeys <[email-masked]=
am.net> wrote:
>=20
> I had one and it worked well. Lasted about 2 years.
> My wrench has one and swears by it. But other than the Healey, I track my c=
ars so change fluid frequently. DOT4 HiTemp for them, DOT4 regular for the H=
ealey. No problems.  Never used silicone even though I completely rebuilt an=
d or replaced the Healey system last year (calipers, drums, and lines)
>=20
> Regards,
> Richard C
> BN7 440
>=20
>> On Jul 26, 2021, at 15:26, Roger Grace via Healeys <[email-masked]=
t> wrote:
>>=20
>> =EF=BB=BF
>> Does anyone have an opinion as to the accuracy of those cheepo pen style b=
rake fluid moisture detectors ?
>> You dip the probes into the reservoir and they give led indication for ra=
nge % moisture present.
>> Just wondering ... ??
>> rg
>>=20
>>> On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 4:55 AM bluehealey <[email-masked]> wrote:=

>>> Now that is a perfect checklist Simon. Captures everything you need to k=
now.=20
>>> In addition I work on the basis that glycol mixtures, if neglected (not f=
lushed) for more than 3-4 years, can cause minor problems with the hardware.=
=20
>>> Silicone, if neglected for a similar period, can cause major problems wi=
th the hardware.=20
>>> Guess which I choose to use.=20
>>>=20
>>> AlanB - iPhone message.
>>>=20
>>> > On 26 Jul 2021, at 09:57, Simon Lachlan via Healeys <[email-masked]=
m.net> wrote:
>>> >=20
>>> > =EF=BB=BF
>>> >=20
>>> > I was getting myself in a muddle over brake fluid once so I made mysel=
f some
>>> >=20
>>> > 2)    Most synthetic fluids are NOT silicone. They are polyethylene gl=
ycol
>>> > ether based.
>>> > 3)    DOT 3 & 4, which can be mixed, are not silicone. They are glycol=
.
>>> >=20
>>> > The word "synthetic" began to appear when manufacturers worked out tha=
t it
>>> > made regular brake fluid sound more special ie they could charge us mo=
re
>>> >=20
>>> > DOT stands for Dept. Of Transport and relates to the fluids' boiling p=
oints.
>>> > If a car brakes at high speed, the brakes get hot. Some heat is carrie=
d away
>>> > from the brakes by the brake fluid. Bad news if the fluid boils! The f=
aster
>>> > you're going, the higher DOT you need. Higher DOT numbers indicate hig=
her
>>> > boiling points for "Dry" fluid (has not absorbed any water) and "Wet" f=
luids
>>> > (has absorbed water). ie, the wetter it is, the more problematic it be=
comes.
>>> >=20
>>> >=20
>>> > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/a=
rchive
>>> >=20
>>> >=20
>>> > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/blue=
[email-masked]
>>> >=20
>>>=20
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/arc=
hive
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/roggra=
[email-masked]
>>>=20
>>=20
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ive
>>=20
>>=20
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[email-masked]
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>=20
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ve
>=20
>=20
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[email-masked]
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	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">I=E2=80=99ve used DOT 5 silicone fluid for m=
any years, and no problems.<div>My only reservation with it is - if somethin=
g goes wrong with your servo, the fluid will be sucked through the manifold i=
nto the engine, and you don=E2=80=99t want that!</div><div>I=E2=80=99ve chan=
ged the size of my master cylinder and bypassed the servo so that I can cont=
inue to use DOT 5. Again, no problems, but I do tend to do some work on the b=
rakes often enough to change the fluid within the required period.</div><div=
><br></div><div>Stephen, BJ8</div><div><br><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature" di=
r=3D"ltr">Sent from my iPad</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Jul 26, 2021, at 5:=
16 PM, Richard Collins via Healeys &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked].=
net">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"=
cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">

<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8">

I had one and it worked well. Lasted about 2 years.
<div>My wrench has one and swears by it. But other than the Healey, I track m=
y cars so change fluid frequently. DOT4 HiTemp for them, DOT4 regular for th=
e Healey. No problems. &nbsp;Never used silicone even though I completely re=
built and or replaced the Healey
 system last year (calipers, drums, and lines)<br>
<br>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Regards,
<div>Richard C</div>
<div>BN7 440</div>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">On Jul 26, 2021, at 15:26, Roger Grace via Healeys=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt=
; wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>Does anyone have an opinion as to the accuracy of those cheepo pen styl=
e brake fluid moisture detectors ?</div>
<div>You dip the probes into the reservoir and they give led indication for r=
ange % moisture present.</div>
<div>Just wondering ... ??</div>
<div>rg<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 4:55 AM bluehe=
aley &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt=
; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l=
eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Now that is a perfect checklist Simon. Captures everything you need to know.=
 <br>
In addition I work on the basis that glycol mixtures, if neglected (not flus=
hed) for more than 3-4 years, can cause minor problems with the hardware.
<br>
Silicone, if neglected for a similar period, can cause major problems with t=
he hardware.
<br>
Guess which I choose to use. <br>
<br>
AlanB - iPhone message.<br>
<br>
&gt; On 26 Jul 2021, at 09:57, Simon Lachlan via Healeys &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; w=
rote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; =EF=BB=BF<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; I was getting myself in a muddle over brake fluid once so I made myself=
 some<br>
&gt; notes. Probably pinched from Google; I don't recall:-<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; 1)&nbsp; &nbsp; All brake fluid is "synthetic".it's not a "natural" pro=
duct.<br>
&gt; 2)&nbsp; &nbsp; Most synthetic fluids are NOT silicone. They are polyet=
hylene glycol<br>
&gt; ether based.<br>
&gt; 3)&nbsp; &nbsp; DOT 3 &amp; 4, which can be mixed, are not silicone. Th=
ey are glycol.<br>
&gt; 4)&nbsp; &nbsp; DOT 5, which cannot be mixed with 3 or 4, is silicone. C=
an't be<br>
&gt; mixed with anything!<br>
&gt; 5)&nbsp; &nbsp; DOT 5.1 is glycol based and cannot be mixed with DOT 5.=
<br>
&gt; 6)&nbsp; &nbsp; DOT 5.1 can be mixed with DOT 3 or 4, as both are glyco=
l based.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; The word "synthetic" began to appear when manufacturers worked out that=
 it<br>
&gt; made regular brake fluid sound more special ie they could charge us mor=
e<br>
&gt; money for the same old stuff.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; DOT stands for Dept. Of Transport and relates to the fluids' boiling po=
ints.<br>
&gt; If a car brakes at high speed, the brakes get hot. Some heat is carried=
 away<br>
&gt; from the brakes by the brake fluid. Bad news if the fluid boils! The fa=
ster<br>
&gt; you're going, the higher DOT you need. Higher DOT numbers indicate high=
er<br>
&gt; boiling points for "Dry" fluid (has not absorbed any water) and "Wet" f=
luids<br>
&gt; (has absorbed water). ie, the wetter it is, the more problematic it bec=
omes.<br>
&gt; Mixing 3 with 4 lowers the boiling points and vice verca.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; Support <a href=3D"http://Team.Net">Team.Net</a> <a href=3D"http://www.=
team.net/donate.html" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">
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