Subject: Re: [Healeys] A90 Head Update

From: Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 08:35:49 -0800

Alan,

What's your guess as to what caused this? It's not definitive--maybe 
it's just stuff that fell in--but it looks like you might have had some 
detonation; otherwise, non-flat surface(s), defective gasket, ... ?

Bob

On 2/1/2021 11:23 PM, Alan Seigrist wrote:
> All -
>
> Got the head off.  Sure enough the gasket blew between 3&4 .  some 
> evidence of gas flow between 1&2 as well. Last pic is of me standing 
> in the engine compartment lifting the head off, just to make all of 
> you jealous ... :D
>
> Cheers,
>
> Alan
>

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From: Alan Seigrist <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 10:01:39 +0800

--000000000000757f4005ba64f8ca

--000000000000757f3d05ba64f8c8

Hi Bob -

This gasket was put on the car only about 5K miles ago if you can believe
it, but the car sat for about 10 years afterwards...  I've checked both the
head and deck with a rectifier (see pic), both are very nicely flat and do
not need to go to the machinist.  Both are flat to within 1/1000 on the
surface... which is less than the error on the rectifier!

I have the previously removed very old copper gasket which I saved and it
has no signs of gas leaking between cylinders compared to this newer gasket
that I just removed.  I discovered a few things:

   1. The old gasket is made with better quality, softer copper, and is
   thicker than the newer gasket that was put on.  The old gasket that showed
   no problems is 1.8mm thick after being installed, the new gasket that
   failed is 1.5mm thick after being installed.  The old gasket is very
   nicely marked as to orientation, directions, copper compression rings are
   thicker, etc., etc.,  Clearly the older gasket was made to work in
   circumstances where the mating surfaces weren't always perfectly flat.
   2. I highly suspect the mechanics that installed the head last time did
   not torque the head in the proper sequence, quite possibly working from the
   outside in.
   3. The head stud mount holes on the deck were raised a bit in couple
   places and may have caused the head to deflect a little, possibly, but they
   don't seem to have been enough to make a difference... I have already filed
   those holes down.  Micheal Salter has told me to run a countersink to debur
   the hole.

It's a weird one, I think possibly a combination of all three issues
above.  Let's see how she goes after I finish the job.  Ultimately one
thing I learned is I cannot anymore rely on mechanics that I do not know
well to do work on my car... I end up having to redo everything.

Best,

Alan

> Unsubscribe/Manage:
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--000000000000757f3d05ba64f8c8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Bob -<div><br></div><div>This gasket w=
as put on the car only about 5K miles ago if you can believe it, but the ca=
r sat for about 10 years afterwards...=C2=A0 I&#39;ve checked both the head=
 and deck with a rectifier (see pic), both are very nicely flat and do not =
need to go to the machinist.=C2=A0 Both are flat to within 1/1000 on the su=
rface... which is less than the error on the rectifier!</div><div><br></div=
><div>I have the previously removed very old copper gasket which I saved an=
d it has no signs of gas leaking between cylinders compared to this newer g=
asket that=C2=A0I just=C2=A0removed.=C2=A0 I discovered a few things:</div>=
<div><ol><li>The old gasket is made with better quality, softer copper, and=
 is thicker than the newer gasket that was put on.=C2=A0 The old gasket tha=
t showed no problems is 1.8mm thick after being installed, the new gasket t=
hat failed is 1.5mm thick after being installed.=C2=A0 The old gasket is ve=
ry nicely=C2=A0marked as to orientation, directions, copper compression rin=
gs are thicker, etc., etc.,=C2=A0 Clearly the older gasket was made to work=
 in circumstances where the mating surfaces weren&#39;t always perfectly fl=
at.</li><li>I highly suspect the mechanics that installed the head last tim=
e did not torque the head in the proper sequence, quite possibly working fr=
om the outside in.=C2=A0=C2=A0</li><li>The head stud mount holes on the dec=
k were raised a bit in couple places and may have caused the head to deflec=
t a little, possibly, but they don&#39;t seem to have been enough to make a=
 difference... I have already filed those holes down.=C2=A0 Micheal Salter =
has told me to run a countersink to debur the hole.</li></ol><div>It&#39;s =
a weird one, I think possibly a combination of all three issues above.=C2=
=A0 Let&#39;s see how she goes after I finish the job.=C2=A0 Ultimately one=
 thing I learned is I cannot anymore rely on mechanics that I do not know w=
ell to do work on my car... I end up having to redo everything.</div><div><=
br></div><div>Best,</div></div><div><br></div><div>Alan</div></div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0p=
x 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
On 2/1/2021 11:23 PM, Alan Seigrist wrote:<br>
&gt; All -<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Got the head off.=C2=A0 Sure enough the gasket blew between 3&amp;4 . =
=C2=A0some <br>
&gt; evidence of gas flow between 1&amp;2 as well. Last pic is of me standi=
ng <br>
&gt; in the engine compartment lifting the head off, just to make all of <b=
r>
&gt; you jealous ... :D<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Cheers,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Alan<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
rer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
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[email-masked]

--000000000000757f4005ba64f8ca--

---

From: healeyguy--- via Healeys <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 02:49:19 +0000 (UTC)

--===============0020538095382756002==
	boundary="----=_Part_1850405_688920198.1612320559309"

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AlanWas the head retorqued after installed and run in? I realize it has bee=
n a long time so that info may not be available.Perry=C2=A0

-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Seigrist <[email-masked]>
To: Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>
Cc: Healey list <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tue, Feb 2, 2021 9:01 pm
Subject: Re: [Healeys] A90 Head Update

Hi Bob -
This gasket was put on the car only about 5K miles ago if you can believe i=
t, but the car sat for about 10 years afterwards...=C2=A0 I've checked both=
 the head and deck with a rectifier (see pic), both are very nicely flat an=
d do not need to go to the machinist.=C2=A0 Both are flat to within 1/1000 =
on the surface... which is less than the error on the rectifier!
I have the previously removed very old copper gasket which I saved and it h=
as no signs of gas leaking between cylinders compared to this newer gasket =
that=C2=A0I just=C2=A0removed.=C2=A0 I discovered a few things:  =20
   - The old gasket is made with better quality, softer copper, and is thic=
ker than the newer gasket that was put on.=C2=A0 The old gasket that showed=
 no problems is 1.8mm thick after being installed, the new gasket that fail=
ed is 1.5mm thick after being installed.=C2=A0 The old gasket is very nicel=
y=C2=A0marked as to orientation, directions, copper compression rings are t=
hicker, etc., etc.,=C2=A0 Clearly the older gasket was made to work in circ=
umstances where the mating surfaces weren't always perfectly flat.
   - I highly suspect the mechanics that installed the head last time did n=
ot torque the head in the proper sequence, quite possibly working from the =
outside in.=C2=A0=C2=A0
   - The head stud mount holes on the deck were raised a bit in couple plac=
es and may have caused the head to deflect a little, possibly, but they don=
't seem to have been enough to make a difference... I have already filed th=
ose holes down.=C2=A0 Micheal Salter has told me to run a countersink to de=
bur the hole.
It's a weird one, I think possibly a combination of all three issues above.=
=C2=A0 Let's see how she goes after I finish the job.=C2=A0 Ultimately one =
thing I learned is I cannot anymore rely on mechanics that I do not know we=
ll to do work on my car... I end up having to redo everything.
Best,
Alan
On 2/1/2021 11:23 PM, Alan Seigrist wrote:
> All -
>
> Got the head off.=C2=A0 Sure enough the gasket blew between 3&4 . =C2=A0s=
ome=20
> evidence of gas flow between 1&2 as well. Last pic is of me standing=20
> in the engine compartment lifting the head off, just to make all of=20
> you jealous ... :D
>
> Cheers,
>
> Alan
>

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/archiv=
e

[email-masked]

[email-masked]

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/archiv=
e

[email-masked]

@aol.com

------=_Part_1850405_688920198.1612320559309
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div style=3D"color:black;font: 10pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Alan
<div>Was the head retorqued after installed and run in? I realize it has be=
en a long time so that info may not be available.</div>

<div>Perry&nbsp;<br>
<br>
<br>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br>
From: Alan Seigrist &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
To: Bob Spidell &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Cc: Healey list &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Sent: Tue, Feb 2, 2021 9:01 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [Healeys] A90 Head Update<br>
<br>

<div id=3D"yiv7555033341">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Bob -
<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div>This gasket was put on the car only about 5K miles ago if you can beli=
eve it, but the car sat for about 10 years afterwards...&nbsp; I've checked=
 both the head and deck with a rectifier (see pic), both are very nicely fl=
at and do not need to go to the machinist.&nbsp; Both are flat to within 1/=
1000 on the surface... which is less than the error on the rectifier!</div>

<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div>I have the previously removed very old copper gasket which I saved and=
 it has no signs of gas leaking between cylinders compared to this newer ga=
sket that&nbsp;I just&nbsp;removed.&nbsp; I discovered a few things:</div>

<div><ol><li>The old gasket is made with better quality, softer copper, and=
 is thicker than the newer gasket that was put on.&nbsp; The old gasket tha=
t showed no problems is 1.8mm thick after being installed, the new gasket t=
hat failed is 1.5mm thick after being installed.&nbsp; The old gasket is ve=
ry nicely&nbsp;marked as to orientation, directions, copper compression rin=
gs are thicker, etc., etc.,&nbsp; Clearly the older gasket was made to work=
 in circumstances where the mating surfaces weren't always perfectly flat.<=
/li><li>I highly suspect the mechanics that installed the head last time di=
d not torque the head in the proper sequence, quite possibly working from t=
he outside in.&nbsp;&nbsp;</li><li>The head stud mount holes on the deck we=
re raised a bit in couple places and may have caused the head to deflect a =
little, possibly, but they don't seem to have been enough to make a differe=
nce... I have already filed those holes down.&nbsp; Micheal Salter has told=
 me to run a countersink to debur the hole.</li></ol>
<div>It's a weird one, I think possibly a combination of all three issues a=
bove.&nbsp; Let's see how she goes after I finish the job.&nbsp; Ultimately=
 one thing I learned is I cannot anymore rely on mechanics that I do not kn=
ow well to do work on my car... I end up having to redo everything.</div>

<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div>Best,</div>
</div>

<div class=3D"yiv7555033341yqt4335541407" id=3D"yiv7555033341yqtfd76764">
<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div>Alan</div>
</div>
</div>

<div class=3D"yiv7555033341gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"yiv7555033341g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex;">
<div class=3D"yiv7555033341yqt4335541407" id=3D"yiv7555033341yqtfd46821">
On 2/1/2021 11:23 PM, Alan Seigrist wrote:<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; All -<br clear=3D"none">
&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; Got the head off.&nbsp; Sure enough the gasket blew between 3&amp;4 . =
&nbsp;some <br clear=3D"none">
&gt; evidence of gas flow between 1&amp;2 as well. Last pic is of me standi=
ng <br clear=3D"none">
&gt; in the engine compartment lifting the head off, just to make all of <b=
r clear=3D"none">
&gt; you jealous ... :D<br clear=3D"none">
&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; Cheers,<br clear=3D"none">
&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; Alan<br clear=3D"none">
&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
_______________________________________________<br clear=3D"none">
get=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net=
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<div class=3D"yqt4335541407" id=3D"yqtfd20565">____________________________=
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------=_Part_1850405_688920198.1612320559309--

--===============0020538095382756002==
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[email-masked]

--===============0020538095382756002==--

---

From: Alan Seigrist <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 11:47:55 +0800

--===============7642607060801440607==

--0000000000008dbd7605ba6674b7

Hi Perry -

Yes, I retorqued it myself after a couple thousand miles.

Best,

Alan

On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 10:49 AM <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Alan
> Was the head retorqued after installed and run in? I realize it has been a
> long time so that info may not be available.
> Perry
>
>
>    2. I highly suspect the mechanics that installed the head last time
>    did not torque the head in the proper sequence, quite possibly working from
>    the outside in.
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]
>
>

--0000000000008dbd7605ba6674b7
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Perry -<div><br></div><div>Yes, I retorqued it myself a=
fter a couple thousand miles.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div><br>=
</div><div>Alan</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 10:49 AM &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid=
 rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div style=3D"color:black;font:10pt Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Alan
<div>Was the head retorqued after installed and run in? I realize it has be=
en a long time so that info may not be available.</div>

<div>Perry=C2=A0<br>
<br>
<br>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br>
From: Alan Seigrist &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_=
blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
To: Bob Spidell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blan=
k">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: Healey list &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_bl=
ank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
Sent: Tue, Feb 2, 2021 9:01 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [Healeys] A90 Head Update<br>
<br>

<div id=3D"gmail-m_5841794668378181620yiv7555033341">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Bob -
<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div>This gasket was put on the car only about 5K miles ago if you can beli=
eve it, but the car sat for about 10 years afterwards...=C2=A0 I&#39;ve che=
cked both the head and deck with a rectifier (see pic), both are very nicel=
y flat and do not need to go to the machinist.=C2=A0 Both are flat to withi=
n 1/1000 on the surface... which is less than the error on the rectifier!</=
div>

<div>I have the previously removed very old copper gasket which I saved and=
 it has no signs of gas leaking between cylinders compared to this newer ga=
sket that=C2=A0I just=C2=A0removed.=C2=A0 I discovered a few things:</div>

<div><ol><li>The old gasket is made with better quality, softer copper, and=
 is thicker than the newer gasket that was put on.=C2=A0 The old gasket tha=
t showed no problems is 1.8mm thick after being installed, the new gasket t=
hat failed is 1.5mm thick after being installed.=C2=A0 The old gasket is ve=
ry nicely=C2=A0marked as to orientation, directions, copper compression rin=
gs are thicker, etc., etc.,=C2=A0 Clearly the older gasket was made to work=
 in circumstances where the mating surfaces weren&#39;t always perfectly fl=
at.</li><li>I highly suspect the mechanics that installed the head last tim=
e did not torque the head in the proper sequence, quite possibly working fr=
om the outside in.=C2=A0=C2=A0</li><li>The head stud mount holes on the dec=
k were raised a bit in couple places and may have caused the head to deflec=
t a little, possibly, but they don&#39;t seem to have been enough to make a=
 difference... I have already filed those holes down.=C2=A0 Micheal Salter =
has told me to run a countersink to debur the hole.</li></ol>
<div>It&#39;s a weird one, I think possibly a combination of all three issu=
es above.=C2=A0 Let&#39;s see how she goes after I finish the job.=C2=A0 Ul=
timately one thing I learned is I cannot anymore rely on mechanics that I d=
o not know well to do work on my car... I end up having to redo everything.=
</div>

<div>Best,</div>
</div>

<div id=3D"gmail-m_5841794668378181620yiv7555033341yqtfd76764">
<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div>Alan</div>
</div>
</div>

<div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div id=3D"gmail-m_5841794668378181620yiv7555033341yqtfd46821">
On 2/1/2021 11:23 PM, Alan Seigrist wrote:<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; All -<br clear=3D"none">
&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; Got the head off.=C2=A0 Sure enough the gasket blew between 3&amp;4 . =
=C2=A0some <br clear=3D"none">
&gt; evidence of gas flow between 1&amp;2 as well. Last pic is of me standi=
ng <br clear=3D"none">
&gt; in the engine compartment lifting the head off, just to make all of <b=
r clear=3D"none">
&gt; you jealous ... :D<br clear=3D"none">
&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; Cheers,<br clear=3D"none">
&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; Alan<br clear=3D"none">
&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
_______________________________________________<br clear=3D"none">
f=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net=
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---

From: Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 20:48:12 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Thanks for the update, Alan. Good Luck!
Bob

On 2/2/2021 6:01 PM, Alan Seigrist wrote:
> Hi Bob -
>
> This gasket was put on the car only about 5K miles ago if you can 
> believe it, but the car sat for about 10 years afterwards...  I've 
> checked both the head and deck with a rectifier (see pic), both are 
> very nicely flat and do not need to go to the machinist.  Both are 
> flat to within 1/1000 on the surface... which is less than the error 
> on the rectifier!
>
> I have the previously removed very old copper gasket which I saved and 
> it has no signs of gas leaking between cylinders compared to this 
> newer gasket that I just removed.  I discovered a few things:
>
>     thicker than the newer gasket that was put on.  The old gasket
>     that showed no problems is 1.8mm thick after being installed, the
>     new gasket that failed is 1.5mm thick after being installed.  The
>     old gasket is very nicely marked as to orientation, directions,
>     copper compression rings are thicker, etc., etc.,  Clearly the
>     older gasket was made to work in circumstances where the mating
>     surfaces weren't always perfectly flat.
>     did not torque the head in the proper sequence, quite possibly
>     working from the outside in.
>     places and may have caused the head to deflect a little, possibly,
>     but they don't seem to have been enough to make a difference... I
>     have already filed those holes down.  Micheal Salter has told me
>     to run a countersink to debur the hole.
>
> thing I learned is I cannot anymore rely on mechanics that I do not 
> know well to do work on my car... I end up having to redo everything.
>
> Best,
>
> Alan
>
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    Thanks for the update, Alan. Good Luck!<br>
    Bob<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/2/2021 6:01 PM, Alan Seigrist
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAFBXTk+GxEC9aq=[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div dir="ltr">Hi Bob -
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>This gasket was put on the car only about 5K miles ago if
            you can believe it, but the car sat for about 10 years
            afterwards...  I've checked both the head and deck with a
            rectifier (see pic), both are very nicely flat and do not
            need to go to the machinist.  Both are flat to within 1/1000
            on the surface... which is less than the error on the
            rectifier!</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>I have the previously removed very old copper gasket
            which I saved and it has no signs of gas leaking between
            cylinders compared to this newer gasket that I
            just removed.  I discovered a few things:</div>
          <div>
            <ol>
              <li>The old gasket is made with better quality, softer
                copper, and is thicker than the newer gasket that was
                put on.  The old gasket that showed no problems is 1.8mm
                thick after being installed, the new gasket that failed
                is 1.5mm thick after being installed.  The old gasket is
                very nicely marked as to orientation, directions, copper
                compression rings are thicker, etc., etc.,  Clearly the
                older gasket was made to work in circumstances where the
                mating surfaces weren't always perfectly flat.</li>
              <li>I highly suspect the mechanics that installed the head
                last time did not torque the head in the proper
                sequence, quite possibly working from the outside in.  </li>
              <li>The head stud mount holes on the deck were raised a
                bit in couple places and may have caused the head to
                deflect a little, possibly, but they don't seem to have
                been enough to make a difference... I have already filed
                those holes down.  Micheal Salter has told me to run a
                countersink to debur the hole.</li>
            </ol>
            <div>It's a weird one, I think possibly a combination of all
              three issues above.  Let's see how she goes after I finish
              the job.  Ultimately one thing I learned is I cannot
              anymore rely on mechanics that I do not know well to do
              work on my car... I end up having to redo everything.</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>Best,</div>
          </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Alan</div>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_quote">
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
            0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
            rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
            On 2/1/2021 11:23 PM, Alan Seigrist wrote:<br>
            &gt; All -<br>
            &gt;<br>
            &gt; Got the head off.  Sure enough the gasket blew between
            3&amp;4 .  some <br>
            &gt; evidence of gas flow between 1&amp;2 as well. Last pic
            is of me standing <br>
            &gt; in the engine compartment lifting the head off, just to
            make all of <br>
            &gt; you jealous ... :D<br>
            &gt;<br>
            &gt; Cheers,<br>
            &gt;<br>
            &gt; Alan<br>
            &gt;<br>
            <br>
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