Subject: Re: [Healeys] silicone brake fluid

From: Kees Oudesluijs <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2019 15:07:22 +0200

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The main problem with Silicon fluid/DOT 5 is that it hardly absorbs 
water, so when water enters the sytem (due to condensation) it will sink 
to the lowest point and causes corrosion and havoc. On it own not a big 
problem if you renew the fluid every 2 years or so, as you also would do 
with DOT 4, but most people using DOT 5 never replace the fluid.

Some manufacturers do not recommend DOT 5 hence the warning “Using 
Silicon Brake fluid will void warranty”.

Perhaps the grease they use in the factory at assembly is not compatible 
with DOT 5.

Perhaps some rubber items are not suitable for DOT 5, however my 
understandig is theat DOT is OK with new rubber parts as long as you 
first clean them using alcohol/meth. spirits and dry them thoroughly.

Once the rubber parts have been exposed to DOT 4 you should not use them 
with DOT 5 or vise versa. Some people do at their own peril.

Kees Oudesluijs

Op 15-6-2019 om 17:14 schreef Brian Drab:
>
> Last week I completed a driving tour in our BJ8. It was a great tour 
> and everything ran well except for one thing.  4 or 5 times, when I 
> used the clutch, the clutch master cylinder bypassed. The rest of the 
> time it worked well. As I don’t want to be caught without a clutch at 
> a later date I am changing the clutch master cylinder. I have received 
> a replacement and am preparing to install it.
>
> On the box is a quick summary of the bleeding procedure under a 
> warning – “Using Silicon Brake fluid will void warranty”. I have used 
> silicon fluid for well over 10 tears and never experienced any 
> problems with it and have never seen or heard of this type of warning 
> before. I have never heard of any destructive qualities of Silicon fluid.
>
> My question is – does anyone have any idea what it is about.
>
> For me to change to Dot4 fluid is quite a big deal as I would be 
> changing out the clutch as well as the brake system seeing as they 
> share a common reservoir.
>
> I’d appreciate any comments on the warning.
>
> Brian Drab
>
> BJ8
>
>
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    <p>The main problem with Silicon fluid/DOT 5 is that it hardly
      absorbs water, so when water enters the sytem (due to
      condensation) it will sink to the lowest point and causes
      corrosion and havoc. On it own not a big problem if you renew the
      fluid every 2 years or so, as you also would do with DOT 4, but
      most people using DOT 5 never replace the fluid.</p>
    <p>Some manufacturers do not recommend DOT 5 hence the warning
      “Using Silicon Brake fluid will void warranty”.<br>
    </p>
    <p>Perhaps the grease they use in the factory at assembly is not
      compatible with DOT 5.</p>
    <p>Perhaps some rubber items are not suitable for DOT 5, however my
      understandig is theat DOT is OK with new rubber parts as long as
      you first clean them using alcohol/meth. spirits and dry them
      thoroughly. <br>
    </p>
    <p>Once the rubber parts have been exposed to DOT 4 you should not
      use them with DOT 5 or vise versa. Some people do at their own
      peril.  <br>
    </p>
    <p>Kees Oudesluijs</p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Op 15-6-2019 om 17:14 schreef Brian
      Drab:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email-masked]">
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      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal">Last week I completed a driving tour in our
          BJ8. It was a great tour and everything ran well except for
          one thing.  4 or 5 times, when I used the clutch, the clutch
          master cylinder bypassed. The rest of the time it worked well.
          As I don’t want to be caught without a clutch at a later date
          I am changing the clutch master cylinder. I have received a
          replacement and am preparing to install it.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">On the box is a quick summary of the
          bleeding procedure under a warning – “Using Silicon Brake
          fluid will void warranty”. I have used silicon fluid for well
          over 10 tears and never experienced any problems with it and
          have never seen or heard of this type of warning before. I
          have never heard of any destructive qualities of Silicon
          fluid.
          <o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">My question is – does anyone have any idea
          what it is about.
          <o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">For me to change to Dot4 fluid is quite a
          big deal as I would be changing out the clutch as well as the
          brake system seeing as they share a common reservoir.
          <o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">I’d appreciate any comments on the warning.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Brian Drab<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">BJ8<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________

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_______________________________________________

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/archive

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http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys

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From: HealeyRick <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2019 09:31:27 -0400

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Apparently, silicone can cause swelling of the seals in Girling and
Lockheed systems:   http://www.gomog.com/brakes.html  I have a Howe
hydraulic clutch in my Nasty Boy, and that also came with the advisory not
to use silicone fluid.

Rick Neville

On Sun, Jun 16, 2019 at 8:24 AM Brian Drab <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Last week I completed a driving tour in our BJ8. It was a great tour and
> everything ran well except for one thing.  4 or 5 times, when I used the
> clutch, the clutch master cylinder bypassed. The rest of the time it work=
ed
> well. As I don=E2=80=99t want to be caught without a clutch at a later da=
te I am
> changing the clutch master cylinder. I have received a replacement and am
> preparing to install it.
>
> On the box is a quick summary of the bleeding procedure under a warning =
=E2=80=93
> =E2=80=9CUsing Silicon Brake fluid will void warranty=E2=80=9D. I have us=
ed silicon fluid
> for well over 10 tears and never experienced any problems with it and hav=
e
> never seen or heard of this type of warning before. I have never heard of
> any destructive qualities of Silicon fluid.
>
> My question is =E2=80=93 does anyone have any idea what it is about.
>
> For me to change to Dot4 fluid is quite a big deal as I would be changing
> out the clutch as well as the brake system seeing as they share a common
> reservoir.
>
> I=E2=80=99d appreciate any comments on the warning.
>
> Brian Drab
>
> BJ8
>
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Apparently, silicone can cause swelling of the seals in Gi=
rling and Lockheed systems:=C2=A0=C2=A0

<a href=3D"http://www.gomog.com/brakes.html">http://www.gomog.com/brakes.ht=
ml</a>=C2=A0 I have a Howe hydraulic clutch in my Nasty Boy, and that also =
came with the advisory not to use silicone fluid.=C2=A0=C2=A0<div><br></div=
><div>Rick Neville</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"lt=
r" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Jun 16, 2019 at 8:24 AM Brian Drab &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div>=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">

<div lang=3D"EN-CA">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_8066255316544746563WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Last week I completed a driving tour in our BJ8. It =
was a great tour and everything ran well except for one thing. =C2=A04 or 5=
 times, when I used the clutch, the clutch master cylinder bypassed. The re=
st of the time it worked well. As I don=E2=80=99t
 want to be caught without a clutch at a later date I am changing the clutc=
h master cylinder. I have received a replacement and am preparing to instal=
l it.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On the box is a quick summary of the bleeding proced=
ure under a warning =E2=80=93 =E2=80=9CUsing Silicon Brake fluid will void =
warranty=E2=80=9D. I have used silicon fluid for well over 10 tears and nev=
er experienced any problems with it and have never seen or
 heard of this type of warning before. I have never heard of any destructiv=
e qualities of Silicon fluid.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">My question is =E2=80=93 does anyone have any idea w=
hat it is about.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">For me to change to Dot4 fluid is quite a big deal a=
s I would be changing out the clutch as well as the brake system seeing as =
they share a common reservoir.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I=E2=80=99d appreciate any comments on the warning.<=
u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Brian Drab<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">BJ8<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>

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[email-masked]

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From: "Team.net" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2019 10:44:26 -0400

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I have used silicone in all my british cars for 25 years with no problems

> On Jun 16, 2019, at 09:31, HealeyRick <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> Apparently, silicone can cause swelling of the seals in Girling and Lockhe=
ed systems:   http://www.gomog.com/brakes.html  I have a Howe hydraulic clut=
ch in my Nasty Boy, and that also came with the advisory not to use silicone=
 fluid. =20
>=20
>=20
>> Last week I completed a driving tour in our BJ8. It was a great tour and e=
verything ran well except for one thing.  4 or 5 times, when I used the clut=
ch, the clutch master cylinder bypassed. The rest of the time it worked well=
. As I don=E2=80=99t want to be caught without a clutch at a later date I am=
 changing the clutch master cylinder. I have received a replacement and am p=
reparing to install it.
>>=20
>> On the box is a quick summary of the bleeding procedure under a warning =E2=
=80=93 =E2=80=9CUsing Silicon Brake fluid will void warranty=E2=80=9D. I hav=
e used silicon fluid for well over 10 tears and never experienced any proble=
ms with it and have never seen or heard of this type of warning before. I ha=
ve never heard of any destructive qualities of Silicon fluid.
>>=20
>>=20
>> For me to change to Dot4 fluid is quite a big deal as I would be changing=
 out the clutch as well as the brake system seeing as they share a common re=
servoir.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> =20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/arch=
ive
>>=20
>>=20
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/healeyr=
[email-masked]
>>=20
>=20
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/archi=
ve
>=20
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/lawrence=
[email-masked]
>=20

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">I h=
ave used silicone in all my british cars for 25 years with no problems</div>=
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Jun 16, 2019, at 09:31, HealeyRick &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><b=
lockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Apparently, silico=
ne can cause swelling of the seals in Girling and Lockheed systems:&nbsp;&nb=
sp;

<a href=3D"http://www.gomog.com/brakes.html">http://www.gomog.com/brakes.htm=
l</a>&nbsp; I have a Howe hydraulic clutch in my Nasty Boy, and that also ca=
me with the advisory not to use silicone fluid.&nbsp;&nbsp;<div><br></div><d=
iv>Rick Neville</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" c=
lass=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Jun 16, 2019 at 8:24 AM Brian Drab &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px=
 solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">

<div lang=3D"EN-CA">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_8066255316544746563WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Last week I completed a driving tour in our BJ8. It w=
as a great tour and everything ran well except for one thing. &nbsp;4 or 5 t=
imes, when I used the clutch, the clutch master cylinder bypassed. The rest o=
f the time it worked well. As I don=E2=80=99t
 want to be caught without a clutch at a later date I am changing the clutch=
 master cylinder. I have received a replacement and am preparing to install i=
t.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On the box is a quick summary of the bleeding procedu=
re under a warning =E2=80=93 =E2=80=9CUsing Silicon Brake fluid will void wa=
rranty=E2=80=9D. I have used silicon fluid for well over 10 tears and never e=
xperienced any problems with it and have never seen or
 heard of this type of warning before. I have never heard of any destructive=
 qualities of Silicon fluid.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">My question is =E2=80=93 does anyone have any idea wh=
at it is about.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">For me to change to Dot4 fluid is quite a big deal as=
 I would be changing out the clutch as well as the brake system seeing as th=
ey share a common reservoir.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I=E2=80=99d appreciate any comments on the warning.<u=
></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Brian Drab<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">BJ8<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>

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From: Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2019 08:34:15 -0700

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I've used silicone BF in my BJ8 for close to 30 years (and when I 
replaced the brake MC, 15-20 years and 80-100K miles ago, I disregarded 
the same warning).  As somebody mentioned, your problem is symptomatic 
of the 'check valve'--aka 'foot valve--malfunctioning or damaged.  I had 
similar problem with my brakes on a long road trip; had to pump the 
pedal a couple times on every application (for a couple thousand miles).

We put the highly-touted Castrol BF in our 100M after a thorough 
restoration--with all-new brake system--and the fluid jelled when that 
car sat for a couple years.

Side note: Most BFs are calling themselves 'synthetic' these days.  Are 
they a new formulation, or just jumping on the bandwagon as, AFAIK, BF 
has always been synthetic (the glycols used don't occur in nature)?

Bob

On 6/16/2019 7:44 AM, Team.net wrote:
> On Jun 16, 2019, at 09:31, HealeyRick <[email-masked] 
>
>> hydraulic clutch in my Nasty Boy, and that also came with the 
>> advisory not to use silicone fluid.
>>
>> Rick Neville
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 16, 2019 at 8:24 AM Brian Drab <[email-masked] 
>>
>>     Last week I completed a driving tour in our BJ8. It was a great
>>     tour and everything ran well except for one thing.  4 or 5 times,
>>     when I used the clutch, the clutch master cylinder bypassed. The
>>     rest of the time it worked well. As I don’t want to be caught
>>     without a clutch at a later date I am changing the clutch master
>>     cylinder. I have received a replacement and am preparing to
>>     install it.
>>
>>     warning – “Using Silicon Brake fluid will void warranty”. I have
>>     used silicon fluid for well over 10 tears and never experienced
>>     any problems with it and have never seen or heard of this type of
>>     warning before. I have never heard of any destructive qualities
>>     of Silicon fluid.
>>
>>     changing out the clutch as well as the brake system seeing as

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    <p>I've used silicone BF in my BJ8 for close to 30 years (and when I
      replaced the brake MC, 15-20 years and 80-100K miles ago, I
      disregarded the same warning).  As somebody mentioned, your
      problem is symptomatic of the 'check valve'--aka 'foot
      valve--malfunctioning or damaged.  I had similar problem with my
      brakes on a long road trip; had to pump the pedal a couple times
      on every application (for a couple thousand miles).<br>
    </p>
    <p>We put the highly-touted Castrol BF in our 100M after a thorough
      restoration--with all-new brake system--and the fluid jelled when
      that car sat for a couple years.</p>
    <p>Side note: Most BFs are calling themselves 'synthetic' these
      days.  Are they a new formulation, or just jumping on the
      bandwagon as, AFAIK, BF has always been synthetic (the glycols
      used don't occur in nature)?<br>
    </p>
    <p>Bob</p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/16/2019 7:44 AM, Team.net wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="ltr">I have used silicone in all my british cars for 25
        years with no problems</div>
      <div dir="ltr"><br>
        On Jun 16, 2019, at 09:31, HealeyRick &lt;<a
          href="mailto:[email-masked]" moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
        wrote:<br>
        <br>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <div dir="ltr">
          <div dir="ltr">Apparently, silicone can cause swelling of the
            seals in Girling and Lockheed systems:  
            <a href="http://www.gomog.com/brakes.html"
              moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.gomog.com/brakes.html</a> 
            I have a Howe hydraulic clutch in my Nasty Boy, and that
            also came with the advisory not to use silicone fluid.  
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>Rick Neville</div>
          </div>
          <br>
          <div class="gmail_quote">
            <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Jun 16, 2019 at
              8:24 AM Brian Drab &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
              0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
              rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
              <div lang="EN-CA">
                <div class="gmail-m_8066255316544746563WordSection1">
                  <p class="MsoNormal">Last week I completed a driving
                    tour in our BJ8. It was a great tour and everything
                    ran well except for one thing.  4 or 5 times, when I
                    used the clutch, the clutch master cylinder
                    bypassed. The rest of the time it worked well. As I
                    don’t want to be caught without a clutch at a later
                    date I am changing the clutch master cylinder. I
                    have received a replacement and am preparing to
                    install it.</p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">On the box is a quick summary of
                    the bleeding procedure under a warning – “Using
                    Silicon Brake fluid will void warranty”. I have used
                    silicon fluid for well over 10 tears and never
                    experienced any problems with it and have never seen
                    or heard of this type of warning before. I have
                    never heard of any destructive qualities of Silicon
                    fluid.
                  </p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">My question is – does anyone have
                    any idea what it is about.
                  </p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">For me to change to Dot4 fluid is
                    quite a big deal as I would be changing out the
                    clutch as well as the brake system seeing as they
                    share a common reservoir.
                  </p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">I’d appreciate any comments on
                    the warning.</p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">Brian Drab</p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">BJ8</p>
                  <br>
                </div>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
        </div>
      </blockquote>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
</pre>
    </blockquote>
  </body>
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[email-masked]

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---

From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2019 17:15:57 +0100

This is a multipart message in MIME format.

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When this came round last time, I did a little digging and came up with =
this, which I believe I may have inflicted on you before. It was written =
for our local (UK) club magazine but I=E2=80=99m sure that most of it, =
if not all, is universal. It=E2=80=99s more about what mixes with which =
rather than which rots what. If you get my meaning=E2=80=A6.

1.	All brake fluid is =E2=80=9Csynthetic=E2=80=9D=E2=80=A6it=E2=80=99s =
not a =E2=80=9Cnatural=E2=80=9D product.
2.	Most synthetic fluids are NOT silicone. They are polyethylene glycol =
ether based.
3.	DOT 3 & 4, which can be mixed, are not silicone. They are glycol.
4.	DOT 5, which cannot be mixed with 3 or 4, is silicone. Can=E2=80=99t =
be mixed with anything!
5.	DOT 5.1 is glycol based and cannot be mixed with DOT 5.
6.	DOT 5.1 can be mixed with DOT 3 or 4, as both are glycol based.

Simon

=20

From: Healeys <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of Bob Spidell
Sent: 16 June 2019 16:34
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Healeys] silicone brake fluid

=20

I've used silicone BF in my BJ8 for close to 30 years (and when I =
replaced the brake MC, 15-20 years and 80-100K miles ago, I disregarded =
the same warning).  As somebody mentioned, your problem is symptomatic =
of the 'check valve'--aka 'foot valve--malfunctioning or damaged.  I had =
similar problem with my brakes on a long road trip; had to pump the =
pedal a couple times on every application (for a couple thousand miles).

We put the highly-touted Castrol BF in our 100M after a thorough =
restoration--with all-new brake system--and the fluid jelled when that =
car sat for a couple years.

Side note: Most BFs are calling themselves 'synthetic' these days.  Are =
they a new formulation, or just jumping on the bandwagon as, AFAIK, BF =
has always been synthetic (the glycols used don't occur in nature)?

Bob

=20

I have used silicone in all my british cars for 25 years with no =
problems

On Jun 16, 2019, at 09:31, HealeyRick <[email-masked] =

Apparently, silicone can cause swelling of the seals in Girling and =
Lockheed systems:   http://www.gomog.com/brakes.html  I have a Howe =
hydraulic clutch in my Nasty Boy, and that also came with the advisory =
not to use silicone fluid.  =20

=20

Rick Neville

=20

On Sun, Jun 16, 2019 at 8:24 AM Brian Drab <[email-masked] =

Last week I completed a driving tour in our BJ8. It was a great tour and =
everything ran well except for one thing.  4 or 5 times, when I used the =
clutch, the clutch master cylinder bypassed. The rest of the time it =
worked well. As I don=E2=80=99t want to be caught without a clutch at a =
later date I am changing the clutch master cylinder. I have received a =
replacement and am preparing to install it.

On the box is a quick summary of the bleeding procedure under a warning =
=E2=80=93 =E2=80=9CUsing Silicon Brake fluid will void =
warranty=E2=80=9D. I have used silicon fluid for well over 10 tears and =
never experienced any problems with it and have never seen or heard of =
this type of warning before. I have never heard of any destructive =
qualities of Silicon fluid.=20

My question is =E2=80=93 does anyone have any idea what it is about.=20

For me to change to Dot4 fluid is quite a big deal as I would be =
changing out the clutch as well as the brake system seeing as they share =
a common reservoir.=20

Brian Drab

BJ8

=20

=20

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=3Dwhite =
lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>When this came =
round last time, I did a little digging and came up with this, which I =
believe I may have inflicted on you before. It was written for our local =
(UK) club magazine but I=E2=80=99m sure that most of it, if not all, is =
universal. It=E2=80=99s more about what mixes with which rather than =
which rots what. If you get my =
meaning=E2=80=A6.<o:p></o:p></span></p><ol style=3D'margin-top:0cm' =
start=3D1 type=3D1><li class=3DMsoNoSpacing style=3D'mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1'><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>All brake =
fluid is =E2=80=9Csynthetic=E2=80=9D=E2=80=A6it=E2=80=99s not a =
=E2=80=9Cnatural=E2=80=9D product.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li =
class=3DMsoNoSpacing style=3D'mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Most synthetic fluids are =
NOT silicone. They are <span style=3D'color:#222222'>polyethylene =
<u>glycol</u> ether based.</span><o:p></o:p></span></li><li =
class=3DMsoNoSpacing style=3D'mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>DOT 3 &amp; 4, which can =
be mixed, are not silicone. They are glycol.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li =
class=3DMsoNoSpacing style=3D'mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>DOT 5, which cannot be =
mixed with 3 or 4, is silicone. Can=E2=80=99t be mixed with =
anything!<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3DMsoNoSpacing =
style=3D'mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>DOT 5.1 is glycol based and cannot be mixed with DOT =
5.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3DMsoNoSpacing style=3D'mso-list:l0 =
level1 lfo1'><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>DOT 5.1 =
can be mixed with DOT 3 or 4, as both are glycol =
based.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Simon<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:windowtext'> Healeys =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>Bob =
Spidell<br><b>Sent:</b> 16 June 2019 16:34<br><b>To:</b> =
[email-masked]<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] silicone brake =
fluid<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p>I've used silicone BF in my =
BJ8 for close to 30 years (and when I replaced the brake MC, 15-20 years =
and 80-100K miles ago, I disregarded the same warning).&nbsp; As =
somebody mentioned, your problem is symptomatic of the 'check =
valve'--aka 'foot valve--malfunctioning or damaged.&nbsp; I had similar =
problem with my brakes on a long road trip; had to pump the pedal a =
couple times on every application (for a couple thousand =
miles).<o:p></o:p></p><p>We put the highly-touted Castrol BF in our 100M =
after a thorough restoration--with all-new brake system--and the fluid =
jelled when that car sat for a couple years.<o:p></o:p></p><p>Side note: =
Most BFs are calling themselves 'synthetic' these days.&nbsp; Are they a =
new formulation, or just jumping on the bandwagon as, AFAIK, BF has =
always been synthetic (the glycols used don't occur in =
nature)?<o:p></o:p></p><p>Bob<o:p></o:p></p><p><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal>On 6/16/2019 7:44 AM, Team.net =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>I have used silicone in all my british cars for 25 =
years with no problems<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>On Jun 16, 2019, at 09:31, HealeyRick =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Apparently, silicone can cause swelling of the seals =
in Girling and Lockheed systems:&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"http://www.gomog.com/brakes.html">http://www.gomog.com/brakes.htm=
l</a>&nbsp; I have a Howe hydraulic clutch in my Nasty Boy, and that =
also came with the advisory not to use silicone fluid.&nbsp;&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Rick Neville<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
Sun, Jun 16, 2019 at 8:24 AM Brian Drab &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-CA>Last week I completed a driving tour in our BJ8. It was a =
great tour and everything ran well except for one thing. &nbsp;4 or 5 =
times, when I used the clutch, the clutch master cylinder bypassed. The =
rest of the time it worked well. As I don=E2=80=99t want to be caught =
without a clutch at a later date I am changing the clutch master =
cylinder. I have received a replacement and am preparing to install =
it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-CA>On the box is a quick summary of the bleeding procedure =
under a warning =E2=80=93 =E2=80=9CUsing Silicon Brake fluid will void =
warranty=E2=80=9D. I have used silicon fluid for well over 10 tears and =
never experienced any problems with it and have never seen or heard of =
this type of warning before. I have never heard of any destructive =
qualities of Silicon fluid. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-CA>My question is =E2=80=93 does anyone have any idea what it =
is about. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-CA>For me to change to Dot4 fluid is quite a big deal as I =
would be changing out the clutch as well as the brake system seeing as =
they share a common reservoir. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-CA>I=E2=80=99d appreciate any comments on the =
warning.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-CA>Brian Drab<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-CA>BJ8<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-CA><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote></div><=
/div></blockquote><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre></blockquote></div></body><=
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[email-masked]

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---

From: Kees Oudesluijs <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2019 18:50:11 +0200

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Entirely correct.

DOT4 will be perfect for most users. DOT5 for the silicone boys. DOT5.1 
is similar to DOT4 but is upgraded to more or less the same properties 
(e.g. boiling point) as DOT5 but absorbs water and is compatible in 
practically all classic car braking components. It is better suited to 
extreme driving compared to DOT4. It may also have a harder pedal as it 
is non-compressable. DOT5 is slightly compressible and can feel a bit 
spongy when you are not used to it. Most won´t notice anything.

ALL brake fluids should be replaced on a regular bases, usually every 2 
years, in very damp environments more often.

Kees Oudesluijs

Op 16-6-2019 om 18:15 schreef [email-masked]:
>
> When this came round last time, I did a little digging and came up 
> with this, which I believe I may have inflicted on you before. It was 
> written for our local (UK) club magazine but I’m sure that most of it, 
> if not all, is universal. It’s more about what mixes with which rather 
> than which rots what. If you get my meaning….
>
>  1. All brake fluid is “synthetic”…it’s not a “natural” product.
>  2. Most synthetic fluids are NOT silicone. They are polyethylene
>     _glycol_ ether based.
>  4. DOT 5, which cannot be mixed with 3 or 4, is silicone. Can’t be
>     mixed with anything!
> *From:*Healeys <[email-masked]> *On Behalf Of *Bob Spidell
> *Sent:* 16 June 2019 16:34
> *To:* [email-masked]
> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] silicone brake fluid
>
> disregarded the same warning).  As somebody mentioned, your problem is 
> symptomatic of the 'check valve'--aka 'foot valve--malfunctioning or 
> damaged.  I had similar problem with my brakes on a long road trip; 
> had to pump the pedal a couple times on every application (for a 
> couple thousand miles).
>
> Side note: Most BFs are calling themselves 'synthetic' these days.  
> Are they a new formulation, or just jumping on the bandwagon as, 
> AFAIK, BF has always been synthetic (the glycols used don't occur in 
> nature)?
>
> Bob
>
>         Apparently, silicone can cause swelling of the seals in
>         Girling and Lockheed systems: http://www.gomog.com/brakes.html
>         I have a Howe hydraulic clutch in my Nasty Boy, and that also
>         came with the advisory not to use silicone fluid.
>
>         Rick Neville
>
>             Last week I completed a driving tour in our BJ8. It was a
>             great tour and everything ran well except for one thing.
>              4 or 5 times, when I used the clutch, the clutch master
>             cylinder bypassed. The rest of the time it worked well. As
>             I don’t want to be caught without a clutch at a later date
>             I am changing the clutch master cylinder. I have received
>             On the box is a quick summary of the bleeding procedure
>             under a warning – “Using Silicon Brake fluid will void
>             warranty”. I have used silicon fluid for well over 10
>             tears and never experienced any problems with it and have
>             never seen or heard of this type of warning before. I have
>             never heard of any destructive qualities of Silicon fluid.
>
>             For me to change to Dot4 fluid is quite a big deal as I
>             would be changing out the clutch as well as the brake
>             system seeing as they share a common reservoir.
>

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    <p>Entirely correct.</p>
    <p>DOT4 will be perfect for most users. DOT5 for the silicone boys.
      DOT5.1 is similar to DOT4 but is upgraded to more or less the same
      properties (e.g. boiling point) as DOT5 but absorbs water and is
      compatible in practically all classic car braking components. It
      is better suited to extreme driving compared to DOT4. It may also
      have a harder pedal as it is non-compressable. DOT5 is slightly
      compressible and can feel a bit spongy when you are not used to
      it. Most won´t notice anything.<br>
    </p>
    <p>ALL brake fluids should be replaced on a regular bases, usually
      every 2 years, in very damp environments more often. <br>
    </p>
    <p>Kees Oudesluijs</p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Op 16-6-2019 om 18:15 schreef
      <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>:<br>
    </div>
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      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">When
            this came round last time, I did a little digging and came
            up with this, which I believe I may have inflicted on you
            before. It was written for our local (UK) club magazine but
            I’m sure that most of it, if not all, is universal. It’s
            more about what mixes with which rather than which rots
            what. If you get my meaning….<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <ol style="margin-top:0cm" start="1" type="1">
          <li class="MsoNoSpacing" style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">All
              brake fluid is “synthetic”…it’s not a “natural” product.<o:p></o:p></span></li>
          <li class="MsoNoSpacing" style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">Most
              synthetic fluids are NOT silicone. They are <span
                style="color:#222222">polyethylene <u>glycol</u> ether
                based.</span><o:p></o:p></span></li>
          <li class="MsoNoSpacing" style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">DOT
              3 &amp; 4, which can be mixed, are not silicone. They are
              glycol.<o:p></o:p></span></li>
          <li class="MsoNoSpacing" style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">DOT
              5, which cannot be mixed with 3 or 4, is silicone. Can’t
              be mixed with anything!<o:p></o:p></span></li>
          <li class="MsoNoSpacing" style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">DOT
              5.1 is glycol based and cannot be mixed with DOT 5.<o:p></o:p></span></li>
          <li class="MsoNoSpacing" style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">DOT
              5.1 can be mixed with DOT 3 or 4, as both are glycol
              based.<o:p></o:p></span></li>
        </ol>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Simon<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
            1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:windowtext"
                  lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
                style="color:windowtext" lang="EN-US"> Healeys
                <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a> <b>On Behalf Of
                </b>Bob Spidell<br>
                <b>Sent:</b> 16 June 2019 16:34<br>
                <b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
                <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] silicone brake fluid<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p>I've used silicone BF in my BJ8 for close to 30 years (and
          when I replaced the brake MC, 15-20 years and 80-100K miles
          ago, I disregarded the same warning).  As somebody mentioned,
          your problem is symptomatic of the 'check valve'--aka 'foot
          valve--malfunctioning or damaged.  I had similar problem with
          my brakes on a long road trip; had to pump the pedal a couple
          times on every application (for a couple thousand miles).<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p>We put the highly-touted Castrol BF in our 100M after a
          thorough restoration--with all-new brake system--and the fluid
          jelled when that car sat for a couple years.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p>Side note: Most BFs are calling themselves 'synthetic' these
          days.  Are they a new formulation, or just jumping on the
          bandwagon as, AFAIK, BF has always been synthetic (the glycols
          used don't occur in nature)?<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p>Bob<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">On 6/16/2019 7:44 AM, Team.net wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
        </div>
        <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">I have used silicone in all my british
              cars for 25 years with no problems<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
              On Jun 16, 2019, at 09:31, HealeyRick &lt;<a
                href="mailto:[email-masked]" moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
              wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
            <div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal">Apparently, silicone can cause
                  swelling of the seals in Girling and Lockheed
                  systems:   <a href="http://www.gomog.com/brakes.html"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.gomog.com/brakes.html</a> 
                  I have a Howe hydraulic clutch in my Nasty Boy, and
                  that also came with the advisory not to use silicone
                  fluid.   <o:p></o:p></p>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">Rick Neville<o:p></o:p></p>
                </div>
              </div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, Jun 16, 2019 at 8:24 AM
                    Brian Drab &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                    wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
                </div>
                <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
                  1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
                  6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                          lang="EN-CA">Last week I completed a driving
                          tour in our BJ8. It was a great tour and
                          everything ran well except for one thing.  4
                          or 5 times, when I used the clutch, the clutch
                          master cylinder bypassed. The rest of the time
                          it worked well. As I don’t want to be caught
                          without a clutch at a later date I am changing
                          the clutch master cylinder. I have received a
                          replacement and am preparing to install it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                          lang="EN-CA">On the box is a quick summary of
                          the bleeding procedure under a warning –
                          “Using Silicon Brake fluid will void
                          warranty”. I have used silicon fluid for well
                          over 10 tears and never experienced any
                          problems with it and have never seen or heard
                          of this type of warning before. I have never
                          heard of any destructive qualities of Silicon
                          fluid. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                          lang="EN-CA">My question is – does anyone have
                          any idea what it is about. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                          lang="EN-CA">For me to change to Dot4 fluid is
                          quite a big deal as I would be changing out
                          the clutch as well as the brake system seeing
                          as they share a common reservoir. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                          lang="EN-CA">I’d appreciate any comments on
                          the warning.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                          lang="EN-CA">Brian Drab<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                          lang="EN-CA">BJ8<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
          <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________

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[email-masked]

--===============5526157259280667390==--

---

From: Michael MacLean <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2019 19:05:48 +0000 (UTC)

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 I have used Castrol LMA in all my British cars for over 40 years.=C2=A0 Th=
is year I rebuilt the complete brake system on my Bugeye I went to the loca=
l supplier of Brit car parts to buy another bottle of=C2=A0 Castrol LMA BF.=
=C2=A0 Even though she had it on the shelf the owner of the store told me t=
o buy the Lockheed brand because Castrol BF is no longer made by the same p=
eople.=C2=A0 It is not the same stuff and I would be far better off with Lo=
ckheed Dot 4 BF.=C2=A0 She offered no explanation further other than the ne=
w Castrol LMA was crap and the Lockheed stuff can be trusted.=C2=A0 I tend =
to listen to someone that sells the stuff every day.=C2=A0 My BN2 is a comp=
letely new system with an original master that has been re-sleeved.=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 I guess I could start out with silicone fluid, but all my experience=
 is with Dot 3/4.=C2=A0 I have managed to use it for 40 years and not remov=
ed too much paint in the process.
Mike MacLean

    On Sunday, June 16, 2019, 9:50:43 AM PDT, Kees Oudesluijs <coudesluijs@=
chello.nl> wrote: =20
=20
 =20
Entirely correct.
=20
DOT4 will be perfect for most users. DOT5 for the silicone boys. DOT5.1 is =
similar to DOT4 but is upgraded to more or less the same properties (e.g. b=
oiling point) as DOT5 but absorbs water and is compatible in practically al=
l classic car braking components. It is better suited to extreme driving co=
mpared to DOT4. It may also have a harder pedal as it is non-compressable. =
DOT5 is slightly compressible and can feel a bit spongy when you are not us=
ed to it. Most won=C2=B4t notice anything.
=20
=20
ALL brake fluids should be replaced on a regular bases, usually every 2 yea=
rs, in very damp environments more often.=20
=20
=20
Kees Oudesluijs
=20

=20
=20

=20
 Op 16-6-2019 om 18:15 schreef [email-masked]:
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8707325154 =20
When this came round last time, I did a little digging and came up with thi=
s, which I believe I may have inflicted on you before. It was written for o=
ur local (UK) club magazine but I=E2=80=99m sure that most of it, if not al=
l, is universal. It=E2=80=99s more about what mixes with which rather than =
which rots  what. If you get my meaning=E2=80=A6.
   =20
   - All brake fluid is =E2=80=9Csynthetic=E2=80=9D=E2=80=A6it=E2=80=99s no=
t a =E2=80=9Cnatural=E2=80=9D product.
   - Most synthetic fluids are NOT silicone. They are polyethylene glycol e=
ther based.
   - DOT 3 & 4, which can be mixed, are not silicone. They are glycol.
   - DOT 5, which cannot be mixed with 3 or 4, is silicone. Can=E2=80=99t b=
e mixed with anything!
   - DOT 5.1 is glycol based and cannot be mixed with DOT 5.
   - DOT 5.1 can be mixed with DOT 3 or 4, as both are glycol based.
=20
Simon
=20
 =C2=A0
  =20
From: Healeys <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of Bob Spidell
 Sent: 16 June 2019 16:34
 To: [email-masked]
 Subject: Re: [Healeys] silicone brake fluid
  =20
 =C2=A0
=20
I've used silicone BF in my BJ8 for close to 30 years (and when I replaced =
the brake MC, 15-20 years and 80-100K miles ago, I disregarded the same war=
ning).=C2=A0 As somebody mentioned, your problem is symptomatic of the 'che=
ck valve'--aka 'foot valve--malfunctioning or damaged.=C2=A0 I had similar =
problem with my brakes on a long road trip; had to pump the pedal a couple =
times on every application (for a couple thousand miles).
=20
We put the highly-touted Castrol BF in our 100M after a thorough restoratio=
n--with all-new brake system--and the fluid jelled when that car sat for a =
couple years.
=20
Side note: Most BFs are calling themselves 'synthetic' these days.=C2=A0 Ar=
e they a new formulation, or just jumping on the bandwagon as, AFAIK, BF ha=
s always been synthetic (the glycols used don't occur in nature)?
=20
Bob
=20
 =C2=A0
 =20
On 6/16/2019 7:44 AM, Team.net wrote:
 =20
 =20
I have used silicone in all my british cars for 25 years with no problems
  =20

 On Jun 16, 2019, at 09:31, HealeyRick <[email-masked]> wrote:
 =20
  =20
Apparently, silicone can cause swelling of the seals in Girling and Lockhee=
d systems:=C2=A0=C2=A0 http://www.gomog.com/brakes.html=C2=A0 I have a Howe=
 hydraulic clutch in my Nasty Boy, and that also came with the advisory not=
 to use silicone fluid.=C2=A0=C2=A0=20
 =20
 =C2=A0
  =20
Rick Neville
  =20
 =C2=A0
  =20
On Sun, Jun 16, 2019 at 8:24 AM Brian Drab <[email-masked]> wrote:
 =20
  =20
Last week I completed a driving tour in our BJ8. It was a great tour and ev=
erything ran well except for one thing. =C2=A04 or 5 times, when I used the=
 clutch, the clutch master cylinder bypassed. The rest of the time it worke=
d well. As I don=E2=80=99t want to be caught without a clutch at a later da=
te I am changing the clutch master cylinder. I have received a replacement =
and am preparing to install it.
=20
On the box is a quick summary of the bleeding procedure under a warning =E2=
=80=93 =E2=80=9CUsing Silicon Brake fluid will void  warranty=E2=80=9D. I h=
ave used silicon fluid for well over 10 tears and never experienced any pro=
blems with it and have never seen or heard of this type of warning before. =
I have never heard of any destructive qualities of Silicon  fluid.=20
=20
My question is =E2=80=93 does anyone have any idea what it is about.=20
=20
For me to change to Dot4 fluid is quite a big deal as I would be changing o=
ut the clutch as well as the brake system seeing  as they share a common re=
servoir.=20
=20
I=E2=80=99d appreciate any comments on the warning.
=20
Brian Drab
=20
BJ8
=20
 =C2=A0
  =20
  =20
  =C2=A0=20
 =20
  _______________________________________________

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/archiv=
e

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Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/archiv=
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 =20
------=_Part_2246312_485076399.1560711948285
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<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"ydp44159099yahoo-style-wrap" style=
=3D"font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:16px;"><d=
iv></div>
        <div>I have used Castrol LMA in all my British cars for over 40 yea=
rs.&nbsp; This year I rebuilt the complete brake system on my Bugeye I went=
 to the local supplier of Brit car parts to buy another bottle of&nbsp; Cas=
trol LMA BF.&nbsp; Even though she had it on the shelf the owner of the sto=
re told me to buy the Lockheed brand because Castrol BF is no longer made b=
y the same people.&nbsp; It is not the same stuff and I would be far better=
 off with Lockheed Dot 4 BF.&nbsp; She offered no explanation further other=
 than the new Castrol LMA was crap and the Lockheed stuff can be trusted.&n=
bsp; I tend to listen to someone that sells the stuff every day.&nbsp; My B=
N2 is a completely new system with an original master that has been re-slee=
ved.&nbsp;&nbsp; I guess I could start out with silicone fluid, but all my =
experience is with Dot 3/4.&nbsp; I have managed to use it for 40 years and=
 not removed too much paint in the process.<br></div><div>Mike MacLean<br><=
/div><div><br></div>
       =20
        </div><div id=3D"yahoo_quoted_0971795991" class=3D"yahoo_quoted">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
                <div>
                    On Sunday, June 16, 2019, 9:50:43 AM PDT, Kees Oudeslui=
js &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><div id=3D"yiv8707325154"><div>
    <p>Entirely correct.</p>
    <p>DOT4 will be perfect for most users. DOT5 for the silicone boys.
      DOT5.1 is similar to DOT4 but is upgraded to more or less the same
      properties (e.g. boiling point) as DOT5 but absorbs water and is
      compatible in practically all classic car braking components. It
      is better suited to extreme driving compared to DOT4. It may also
      have a harder pedal as it is non-compressable. DOT5 is slightly
      compressible and can feel a bit spongy when you are not used to
      it. Most won=C2=B4t notice anything.<br clear=3D"none">
    </p>
    <p>ALL brake fluids should be replaced on a regular bases, usually
      every 2 years, in very damp environments more often. <br clear=3D"non=
e">
    </p>
    <p>Kees Oudesluijs</p>
    <p><br clear=3D"none">
    </p>
    <p><br clear=3D"none">
    </p>
    <div class=3D"yiv8707325154moz-cite-prefix">Op 16-6-2019 om 18:15 schre=
ef
      <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" class=3D"yiv8707325154moz-txt-link=
-abbreviated" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=
=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">simon.lachlan=
@alexarevel.plus.com</a>:<br clear=3D"none">
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
      </blockquote></div><style>#yiv8707325154 #yiv8707325154 --
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owed
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#yiv8707325154 =20
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#yiv8707325154 </style><div><div class=3D"yiv8707325154yqt2006309594" id=3D=
"yiv8707325154yqt73773"><div class=3D"yiv8707325154WordSection1">
        <p class=3D"yiv8707325154MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:windowtext=
;">When
            this came round last time, I did a little digging and came
            up with this, which I believe I may have inflicted on you
            before. It was written for our local (UK) club magazine but
            I=E2=80=99m sure that most of it, if not all, is universal. It=
=E2=80=99s
            more about what mixes with which rather than which rots
            what. If you get my meaning=E2=80=A6.</span></p>=20
        <ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm;list-style-position: inside;list-style-=
position: inside" start=3D"1" type=3D"1"><li class=3D"yiv8707325154MsoNoSpa=
cing" style=3D""><span style=3D"">All
              brake fluid is =E2=80=9Csynthetic=E2=80=9D=E2=80=A6it=E2=80=
=99s not a =E2=80=9Cnatural=E2=80=9D product.</span></li><li class=3D"yiv87=
07325154MsoNoSpacing" style=3D""><span style=3D"">Most
              synthetic fluids are NOT silicone. They are <span style=3D"co=
lor:#222222;">polyethylene <u>glycol</u> ether
                based.</span></span></li><li class=3D"yiv8707325154MsoNoSpa=
cing" style=3D""><span style=3D"">DOT
              3 &amp; 4, which can be mixed, are not silicone. They are
              glycol.</span></li><li class=3D"yiv8707325154MsoNoSpacing" st=
yle=3D""><span style=3D"">DOT
              5, which cannot be mixed with 3 or 4, is silicone. Can=E2=80=
=99t
              be mixed with anything!</span></li><li class=3D"yiv8707325154=
MsoNoSpacing" style=3D""><span style=3D"">DOT
              5.1 is glycol based and cannot be mixed with DOT 5.</span></l=
i><li class=3D"yiv8707325154MsoNoSpacing" style=3D""><span style=3D"">DOT
              5.1 can be mixed with DOT 3 or 4, as both are glycol
              based.</span></li></ol>=20
        <p class=3D"yiv8707325154MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:windowtext=
;">Simon</span></p>=20
        <p class=3D"yiv8707325154MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:windowtext=
;"> &nbsp;</span></p>=20
        <div>
          <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:=
3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;">
            <p class=3D"yiv8707325154MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color:win=
dowtext;" lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span style=3D"color:windowtext;" =
lang=3D"EN-US"> Healeys
                <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" class=3D"yiv8707325154mo=
z-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" targ=
et=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;healeys-bo=
[email-masked]&gt;</a> <b>On Behalf Of
                </b>Bob Spidell<br clear=3D"none">
                <b>Sent:</b> 16 June 2019 16:34<br clear=3D"none">
                <b>To:</b> <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" class=3D"yiv8=
707325154moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
am.net</a><br clear=3D"none">
                <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] silicone brake fluid</span></=
p>=20
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class=3D"yiv8707325154MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</p>=20
        <p>I've used silicone BF in my BJ8 for close to 30 years (and
          when I replaced the brake MC, 15-20 years and 80-100K miles
          ago, I disregarded the same warning).&nbsp; As somebody mentioned=
,
          your problem is symptomatic of the 'check valve'--aka 'foot
          valve--malfunctioning or damaged.&nbsp; I had similar problem wit=
h
          my brakes on a long road trip; had to pump the pedal a couple
          times on every application (for a couple thousand miles).</p>=20
        <p>We put the highly-touted Castrol BF in our 100M after a
          thorough restoration--with all-new brake system--and the fluid
          jelled when that car sat for a couple years.</p>=20
        <p>Side note: Most BFs are calling themselves 'synthetic' these
          days.&nbsp; Are they a new formulation, or just jumping on the
          bandwagon as, AFAIK, BF has always been synthetic (the glycols
          used don't occur in nature)?</p>=20
        <p>Bob</p>=20
        <p> &nbsp;</p>=20
        <div>
          <p class=3D"yiv8707325154MsoNormal">On 6/16/2019 7:44 AM, Team.ne=
t wrote:</p>=20
        </div>
        <blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;">
          <div>
            <p class=3D"yiv8707325154MsoNormal">I have used silicone in all=
 my british
              cars for 25 years with no problems</p>=20
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class=3D"yiv8707325154MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0=
pt;"><br clear=3D"none">
              On Jun 16, 2019, at 09:31, HealeyRick &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow"=
 shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" hr=
ef=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
              wrote:</p>=20
          </div>
          <blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;">
            <div>
              <div>
                <p class=3D"yiv8707325154MsoNormal">Apparently, silicone ca=
n cause
                  swelling of the seals in Girling and Lockheed
                  systems:&nbsp;&nbsp; <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" t=
arget=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.gomog.com/brakes.html">http://www.gomog=
.com/brakes.html</a>&nbsp;
                  I have a Howe hydraulic clutch in my Nasty Boy, and
                  that also came with the advisory not to use silicone
                  fluid.&nbsp;&nbsp; </p>=20
                <div>
                  <p class=3D"yiv8707325154MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</p>=20
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class=3D"yiv8707325154MsoNormal">Rick Neville</p>=20
                </div>
              </div>
              <p class=3D"yiv8707325154MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</p>=20
              <div>
                <div>
                  <p class=3D"yiv8707325154MsoNormal">On Sun, Jun 16, 2019 =
at 8:24 AM
                    Brian Drab &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymail=
to=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:bgdrab@red=
zone.ca">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                    wrote:</p>=20
                </div>
                <blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC =
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;">
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <p class=3D"yiv8707325154MsoNormal" style=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-CA">Last week I completed a driving
                          tour in our BJ8. It was a great tour and
                          everything ran well except for one thing. &nbsp;4
                          or 5 times, when I used the clutch, the clutch
                          master cylinder bypassed. The rest of the time
                          it worked well. As I don=E2=80=99t want to be cau=
ght
                          without a clutch at a later date I am changing
                          the clutch master cylinder. I have received a
                          replacement and am preparing to install it.</span=
></p>=20
                      <p class=3D"yiv8707325154MsoNormal" style=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-CA">On the box is a quick summary of
                          the bleeding procedure under a warning =E2=80=93
                          =E2=80=9CUsing Silicon Brake fluid will void
                          warranty=E2=80=9D. I have used silicon fluid for =
well
                          over 10 tears and never experienced any
                          problems with it and have never seen or heard
                          of this type of warning before. I have never
                          heard of any destructive qualities of Silicon
                          fluid. </span></p>=20
                      <p class=3D"yiv8707325154MsoNormal" style=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-CA">My question is =E2=80=93 does anyone have
                          any idea what it is about. </span></p>=20
                      <p class=3D"yiv8707325154MsoNormal" style=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-CA">For me to change to Dot4 fluid is
                          quite a big deal as I would be changing out
                          the clutch as well as the brake system seeing
                          as they share a common reservoir. </span></p>=20
                      <p class=3D"yiv8707325154MsoNormal" style=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-CA">I=E2=80=99d appreciate any comments on
                          the warning.</span></p>=20
                      <p class=3D"yiv8707325154MsoNormal" style=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-CA">Brian Drab</span></p>=20
                      <p class=3D"yiv8707325154MsoNormal" style=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-CA">BJ8</span></p>=20
                      <p class=3D"yiv8707325154MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-=
CA"> &nbsp;</span></p>=20
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
          <pre> &nbsp;</pre>=20
        </blockquote>
      </div></div>
      <br clear=3D"none">
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