Subject: Re: [Healeys] Paint type

From: "Gary R. Brierton" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 18:11:36 +0000

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_______________________________________________

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/archive

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 12:35:06 -0400

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Here's a good description of the different processes: 

https://beautifulantiquetreasures.com/2014/05/02/telling-the-difference-between-champleve-and-cloisonne-enamel/

Regards, 

 Gordy, Longbridge BN4.....enamel, with hypen... 

On 2018-10-19 14:11, Gary R. Brierton wrote:

> Many thanks to all.  I stand corrected and, yes, part of my confusion was in mis-understanding the term enamel and in not knowing the process named champlevé.  (ah, hell, let's just say I was _WRONG_!) 
> 
> -------------------------
> 
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=
=3DUTF-8" /></head><body style=3D'font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana,Gen=
eva,sans-serif'>
<p>Here's a good description of the different processes:</p>
<p><a href=3D"https://beautifulantiquetreasures.com/2014/05/02/telling-the-=
difference-between-champleve-and-cloisonne-enamel/">https://beautifulantiqu=
etreasures.com/2014/05/02/telling-the-difference-between-champleve-and-cloi=
sonne-enamel/</a></p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>&nbsp;Gordy, Longbridge BN4.....enamel, with hypen...</p>
<p>On 2018-10-19 14:11, Gary R. Brierton wrote:</p>
<blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"padding: 0 0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2=
px solid; margin: 0"><!-- html ignored --> <!-- head ignored --><!-- meta i=
gnored -->
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: #000000;">Many thanks to all.&nbsp; I stand corrected and, yes, par=
t of my confusion was in mis-understanding the term enamel and in not knowi=
ng the process named <span style=3D"font-family: Arial;"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size: small;">champlev&eacute;</span></span>.&nbsp; (ah, hell, let's just=
 say I was <em><strong>wrong</strong></em>!)</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: #000000;">&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: #000000;">&nbsp;</div>
<hr style=3D"display: inline-block; width: 98%;" /><br />
<div>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_quote"></div>
</div>
<!-- html ignored --><br />
<div class=3D"pre" style=3D"margin: 0; padding: 0; font-family: monospace">=
_______________________________________________<br /> Support Team.Net <a h=
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[email-masked]

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From: Curtis Arndt <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 22:42:23 -0700

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Gary,

With all due respect, sorry but you are mistaken on a number of points.

*Michael Salter... Please make this my first revision for the next Concours
Guidelines update. *

First off, the badges were never Cloisonne, they are red enamel.  Yes, the
Concours Guidelines state that they are Cloisonne, the Guidelines are
WRONG.  I am officially submitting an update for the next Concours
Guidelines revision.

Copied from the Concours Guidelines...

*"All cars up through the Mark I 3000s had flat Austin-Healey "wings"
mounted on the front between the grille and bonnet opening, with red
cloisonn=C3=A9 lettering inset in chrome."  *

Change to read* "**red enamel lettering"*

This is where the confusion first arises!

Secondly, all Austin Healey badges were red enamel from the very first BN1
in 1953 through the BJ8 at chassis no. 39975. After that they were indeed
painted red.  Also copied from the Concours Guidelines...

*"BJ8s produced starting around C. 39,975 (approximate date =E2=80=93 Decem=
ber
1966) had a similar badge that was not cloisonn=C3=A9 but was painted red
instead of the cloisonn=C3=A9. These later badges have a smooth background
instead of the pebbled background of the enameled badges." *

Change to read* "**was not enamel but was painted red instead of the
enamel."*

Karla Maxwell, a trained jeweler with 45+ years experience who owns Maxwell
Enamels will tell you, as she told me 25 years ago that automotive badges
are enamel and NOT Cloisonne.  Karla is the premier automotive emblem
restorer in the US, is in high demand for Pebble Beach participants, is a
neighbor and personal friend of 25+ years. Karla has restored a number of
badges personally for me, and I have done some Bakelite restoration work
for Karla for Pebble Beach cars that she was working on.  Oh, and Karla's
business is Maxwell Enamels NOT Maxwell Cloisonne.  In the UK the best
known badge restorer is PD Enamels, NOT PD Cloisonne.

I hope that this clears things up once and for all.

This is from Karla's FAQ section of her website...
http://www.maxwellenamels.com/FAQs.html

*FAQ... How was my emblem created? *

These enameled emblems are often, *incorrectly, referred to as cloisonn=C3=
=A9*.
Cloisonn=C3=A9 is an enamel process in which separate bands of metal are be=
nt
then applied to a base. These labor intensive bands encase the enamel and
create the design. I have yet to see an automobile emblem done with
cloisonn=C3=A9. The process that is used is called *champlev=C3=A9* (pronou=
nced
shomp=C2=B4-leh-vay).

The champlev=C3=A9 technique involves applying enamel into depressions in t=
he
base metal. These depressions may be etched, engraved or, in the case of
automobile emblems, die stamped. The stamping process can also include the
beautiful design work that shows under transparent enamels.

Historically the word enamel meant glass but today it seems to refer to any
shiny color. The correct terminology is *vitreous* [glass] enamel. It is a
true glass that melts and fuses around 1400 degrees F.  Enamel can be
obtained as opaque, translucent or transparent. The colors are created by
the addition of metallic oxides to the glass.

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 8:31 PM Gary R. Brierton <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> OK...let's try and clear this up.  As I understand it, the "flat wings
> with the Austin-Healey script" commonly seen on BN1, BN2 and (I don't kno=
w
> when it stopped), had red paint of unknown shade in the etched out
> lettering.  Along came the larger badges with MKII or whatever, in
> cloisonne. THEN, to really screw us up, those badges returned to red
> paint of unknown shade, seemingly during BJ8 production.  As was true wit=
h
> almost everything involving our cars, the exact change VIN number for all
> of this is largely indeterminate, at least as far as trim pieces are
> concerned...oh, and some major body parts, like wings with one  or two
> signaling lights, swag lines, whatever.  Reliable reports (from D.M.H.!)
> state that the guiding principle in assembling our cars was "use up what
> was on hand".
> I claim no expertise beyond owning Austin-Healeys and associating with
> their owners for over 50 years (so, mainly the 6 cylinder cars).
> Take it away, Curt, Randy, Steve, et. al.=F0=9F=98=81
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Gary,<div><br></div><div>With all due res=
pect, sorry but you are mistaken on a number of points.=C2=A0</div><div><br=
></div><div><b>Michael Salter... Please make this my first revision for the=
 next Concours Guidelines update.=C2=A0</b></div><div><br></div><div>First =
off, the badges were never Cloisonne, they are red enamel.=C2=A0 Yes, the C=
oncours Guidelines state that they are Cloisonne, the Guidelines are WRONG.=
=C2=A0 I am officially submitting an update for the next Concours Guideline=
s revision.</div><div><br></div><div><span class=3D"gmail-fontstyle0" style=
=3D"font-family:BookmanOldStyle;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span styl=
e=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(34,34=
,34)">Copied from the Concours Guidelines...</span></span></div><div><span =
class=3D"gmail-fontstyle0" style=3D"font-family:BookmanOldStyle;font-size:1=
0pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></span></div><div><i><span class=3D"gmail-fontsty=
le0" style=3D"font-family:BookmanOldStyle;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">=
&quot;All cars up through the Mark I 3000s had flat Austin-Healey &quot;win=
gs&quot; mounted on the front between the grille and bonnet opening, with <=
u>red cloisonn=C3=A9 lettering</u> inset in chrome.&quot;</span>=C2=A0=C2=
=A0</i></div><div><br></div><div>Change to read<i>=C2=A0<font face=3D"arial=
, helvetica, sans-serif"><b>&quot;</b></font></i><b><i><span class=3D"gmail=
-fontstyle0" style=3D"font-family:BookmanOldStyle;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(=
0,0,0)">red enamel lettering</span></i><i><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, s=
ans-serif">&quot;</font></i></b><br style=3D"font-variant-numeric:normal;fo=
nt-variant-east-asian:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto"></=
div><div><br></div><div>This is where the confusion first arises!</div><div=
><br></div><div>Secondly, all Austin Healey badges were red enamel from the=
 very first BN1 in 1953 through the BJ8 at chassis no. 39975. After that th=
ey were indeed painted red.=C2=A0 Also copied from the Concours Guidelines.=
..</div><div><br></div><div><i><span class=3D"gmail-fontstyle0" style=3D"fo=
nt-family:BookmanOldStyle;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">&quot;BJ8s produ=
ced starting around C. 39,975 (approximate date =E2=80=93 December 1966) ha=
d a similar badge that <u>was not cloisonn=C3=A9 but was painted red instea=
d of the cloisonn=C3=A9</u>.</span>=C2=A0<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);fo=
nt-family:BookmanOldStyle;font-size:10pt">These later badges have a smooth =
background instead of the pebbled background of=C2=A0</span><span class=3D"=
gmail-fontstyle0" style=3D"font-family:BookmanOldStyle;font-size:10pt;color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">the enameled badges.&quot;=C2=A0</span></i></div><div><br></di=
v><div>Change to read<i>=C2=A0<b>&quot;</b></i><i><span class=3D"gmail-font=
style0" style=3D"font-family:BookmanOldStyle;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0=
)"><b>was not enamel but was painted red instead of the enamel.&quot;</b></=
span></i></div><div><br></div><div>Karla Maxwell, a trained jeweler with 45=
+ years experience who owns Maxwell Enamels will tell you, as she told me 2=
5 years ago that automotive badges are enamel and NOT Cloisonne.=C2=A0 Karl=
a is the premier automotive emblem restorer in the US, is in high demand fo=
r Pebble Beach participants, is a neighbor and personal friend of 25+ years=
. Karla has restored a number of badges personally for me, and I have done =
some Bakelite restoration work for Karla for Pebble Beach cars that she was=
 working on.=C2=A0 Oh, and Karla&#39;s business is Maxwell Enamels NOT Maxw=
ell Cloisonne.=C2=A0 In the UK the best known badge restorer is PD Enamels,=
 NOT PD Cloisonne.</div><div><br></div><div>I hope that this clears things =
up once and for all.</div><div><br></div><div>This is from Karla&#39;s FAQ =
section of her website...=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www.maxwellenamels.com/FAQ=
s.html">http://www.maxwellenamels.com/FAQs.html</a></div><div><div class=3D=
"gmail-sf_content" style=3D"float:right;width:463px;font-family:Verdana,Ari=
al,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12px;padding:15px 20px 20px 10px;backgrou=
nd-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;backgr=
ound-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;color=
:rgb(0,0,0)"><div style=3D"zoom:1"><div id=3D"gmail-content1" style=3D"widt=
h:439.844px;padding:5px 10px;overflow:hidden"><span style=3D"text-decoratio=
n-line:underline"><p style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0pt"><font size=3D"2"><font co=
lor=3D"#0b1a7a"><font face=3D"Arial"><b>FAQ... How was my emblem created?=
=C2=A0</b></font></font></font></p><p><font face=3D"Arial"><font size=3D"2"=
>These enameled emblems are often, <b><span style=3D"background-color:rgb(2=
55,255,0)">incorrectly</span>, referred to as=C2=A0<i>cloisonn=C3=A9</i></b=
>. Cloisonn=C3=A9 is an enamel process in which separate bands of metal are=
 bent then applied to a base. These labor intensive bands encase the enamel=
 and create the design. <span style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,0)">I h=
ave yet to see an automobile emblem done with cloisonn=C3=A9.</span> The pr=
ocess that is used is called=C2=A0<i>champlev=C3=A9</i>=C2=A0(pronounced sh=
omp=C2=B4-leh-vay).</font></font></p></span><p style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0pt"=
><font face=3D"Arial"><font size=3D"2">The champlev=C3=A9 technique involve=
s=C2=A0applying enamel into depressions in the base metal. These depression=
s may be etched, engraved or, in the case of automobile emblems, die stampe=
d. The stamping process can also include the beautiful design work that sho=
ws under transparent enamels.</font></font>=C2=A0</p><p><font face=3D"Arial=
" size=3D"2">Historically the word enamel meant glass but today it seems to=
 refer to any shiny color. The correct terminology is=C2=A0<i>vitreous</i>=
=C2=A0[glass] enamel. It is a true glass that melts and fuses around 1400 d=
egrees F.=C2=A0 Enamel can be obtained as opaque, translucent or transparen=
t. The colors are created by the addition of metallic oxides to the glass.<=
/font></p><p style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0pt"><font face=3D"Arial"><font size=
=3D"2"><br></font></font></p><p style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0pt">=C2=A0<font fa=
ce=3D"Arial"><font size=3D"2"><br></font></font></p></div></div></div></div=
><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><=
div dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 8:31 PM Gary R. Brierton &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>=
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-l=
eft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont">OK.=
..let&#39;s try and clear this up.=C2=A0 As I understand it, the &quot;flat=
 wings with the Austin-Healey script&quot; commonly seen on BN1, BN2 and (I=
 don&#39;t know when it stopped), had red paint of unknown
 shade in the etched out lettering.=C2=A0 Along came the larger badges with=
 MKII or whatever, in
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;times new roman&quot;,&quot;new york&quot;=
,times,serif,serif,EmojiFont;font-size:16px">
cloisonne</span>. THEN, to really screw us up, those badges returned to red=
 paint of unknown shade, seemingly during BJ8 production.=C2=A0 As was true=
 with almost everything involving our cars, the exact change VIN number for=
 all of this is largely indeterminate,
 at least as far as trim pieces are concerned...oh, and some major body par=
ts, like wings with one=C2=A0 or two signaling lights, swag lines, whatever=
.=C2=A0 Reliable reports (from D.M.H.!) state that the guiding principle in=
 assembling our cars was &quot;use up what was
 on hand&quot;.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont">I c=
laim no expertise beyond owning Austin-Healeys and associating with their o=
wners for over 50 years (so, mainly the 6 cylinder cars).</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:EmojiFont,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,&quot;Appl=
e Color Emoji&quot;,&quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;,NotoColorEmoji,&quot;Segoe U=
I Symbol&quot;,&quot;Android Emoji&quot;,EmojiSymbols;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Take it away, Curt, Randy, Steve, et. al.<span>=F0=9F=98=81</span></div>
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
</div>

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Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys" rel=3D"noreferre=
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eam.net</a><br>
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[email-masked]

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From: Michael Salter <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 07:35:37 -0400

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Okay now I  get it.
What I have been refering to as "cliosonne" is actually "vitreous enamel"
(also know as champlev=C3=A9) and that is actually what was used in all fro=
nt
badges until the later Mk III badges that appeared with red paint.
What is important is that the vitreous enamel IS NOT PAINT.
Part of the terminology problem is that some paints are commonly referred
to as "emamel" but enamel paint is not what was used in the badges prior to
MkIII cars prior to around HBJ8L 39975.
If this is agreed I will make the appropriate changes to the guidelines.

M

On Fri, Oct 19, 2018, 1:42 AM Curtis Arndt, <[email-masked]> wrote:

> *Michael Salter... Please make this my first revision for the next
> Concours Guidelines update. *
>
> First off, the badges were never Cloisonne, they are red enamel.  Yes, th=
e
> Secondly, all Austin Healey badges were red enamel from the very first BN=
1
> *"BJ8s produced starting around C. 39,975 (approximate date =E2=80=93 Dec=
ember
> instead of the cloisonn=C3=A9. These later badges have a smooth backgroun=
d
> Karla Maxwell, a trained jeweler with 45+ years experience who owns
> Maxwell Enamels will tell you, as she told me 25 years ago that automotiv=
e
> badges are enamel and NOT Cloisonne.  Karla is the premier automotive
> emblem restorer in the US, is in high demand for Pebble Beach participant=
s,
> is a neighbor and personal friend of 25+ years. Karla has restored a numb=
er
> of badges personally for me, and I have done some Bakelite restoration wo=
rk
> These enameled emblems are often, *incorrectly, referred to as cloisonn=
=C3=A9*.
> Cloisonn=C3=A9 is an enamel process in which separate bands of metal are =
bent
> cloisonn=C3=A9. The process that is used is called *champlev=C3=A9* (pron=
ounced
> shomp=C2=B4-leh-vay).
>
> The champlev=C3=A9 technique involves applying enamel into depressions in=
 the
> automobile emblems, die stamped. The stamping process can also include th=
e
> Historically the word enamel meant glass but today it seems to refer to
> any shiny color. The correct terminology is *vitreous* [glass] enamel. It
> is a true glass that melts and fuses around 1400 degrees F.  Enamel can b=
e
>> with the Austin-Healey script" commonly seen on BN1, BN2 and (I don't kn=
ow
>> paint of unknown shade, seemingly during BJ8 production.  As was true wi=
th
>> almost everything involving our cars, the exact change VIN number for al=
l
>> Take it away, Curt, Randy, Steve, et. al.=F0=9F=98=81

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<div dir=3D"auto"><div>Okay now I=C2=A0 get it.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto=
">What I have been refering to as &quot;cliosonne&quot; is actually &quot;v=
itreous enamel&quot; (also know as champlev=C3=A9) and that is actually wha=
t was used in all front badges until the later Mk III badges that appeared =
with red paint.</div><div dir=3D"auto">What is important is that the vitreo=
us enamel IS NOT PAINT.</div><div dir=3D"auto">Part of the terminology prob=
lem is that some paints are commonly referred to as &quot;emamel&quot; but =
enamel paint is not what was used in the badges prior to MkIII cars prior t=
o around HBJ8L 39975.</div><div dir=3D"auto">If this is agreed I will make =
the appropriate changes to the guidelines.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div=
><div dir=3D"auto">M</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Fri, Oct 19, 2018, 1:42 AM Curtis Arnd=
t, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wro=
te:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;b=
order-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"lt=
r">Gary,<div><br></div><div>With all due respect, sorry but you are mistake=
n on a number of points.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div><b>Michael Salter..=
. Please make this my first revision for the next Concours Guidelines updat=
e.=C2=A0</b></div><div><br></div><div>First off, the badges were never Cloi=
sonne, they are red enamel.=C2=A0 Yes, the Concours Guidelines state that t=
hey are Cloisonne, the Guidelines are WRONG.=C2=A0 I am officially submitti=
ng an update for the next Concours Guidelines revision.</div><div><br></div=
><div><span class=3D"m_-6646412867575244822gmail-fontstyle0" style=3D"font-=
family:BookmanOldStyle;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"font=
-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(34,34,34)">Cop=
ied from the Concours Guidelines...</span></span></div><div><span class=3D"=
m_-6646412867575244822gmail-fontstyle0" style=3D"font-family:BookmanOldStyl=
e;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></span></div><div><i><span class=3D"=
m_-6646412867575244822gmail-fontstyle0" style=3D"font-family:BookmanOldStyl=
e;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">&quot;All cars up through the Mark I 300=
0s had flat Austin-Healey &quot;wings&quot; mounted on the front between th=
e grille and bonnet opening, with <u>red cloisonn=C3=A9 lettering</u> inset=
 in chrome.&quot;</span>=C2=A0=C2=A0</i></div><div><br></div><div>Change to=
 read<i>=C2=A0<font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><b>&quot;</b></fo=
nt></i><b><i><span class=3D"m_-6646412867575244822gmail-fontstyle0" style=
=3D"font-family:BookmanOldStyle;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">red enamel=
 lettering</span></i><i><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">&quot;<=
/font></i></b><br style=3D"font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-as=
ian:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto"></div><div><br></div=
><div>This is where the confusion first arises!</div><div><br></div><div>Se=
condly, all Austin Healey badges were red enamel from the very first BN1 in=
 1953 through the BJ8 at chassis no. 39975. After that they were indeed pai=
nted red.=C2=A0 Also copied from the Concours Guidelines...</div><div><br><=
/div><div><i><span class=3D"m_-6646412867575244822gmail-fontstyle0" style=
=3D"font-family:BookmanOldStyle;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">&quot;BJ8s=
 produced starting around C. 39,975 (approximate date =E2=80=93 December 19=
66) had a similar badge that <u>was not cloisonn=C3=A9 but was painted red =
instead of the cloisonn=C3=A9</u>.</span>=C2=A0<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0=
,0);font-family:BookmanOldStyle;font-size:10pt">These later badges have a s=
mooth background instead of the pebbled background of=C2=A0</span><span cla=
ss=3D"m_-6646412867575244822gmail-fontstyle0" style=3D"font-family:BookmanO=
ldStyle;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">the enameled badges.&quot;=C2=A0</=
span></i></div><div><br></div><div>Change to read<i>=C2=A0<b>&quot;</b></i>=
<i><span class=3D"m_-6646412867575244822gmail-fontstyle0" style=3D"font-fam=
ily:BookmanOldStyle;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><b>was not enamel but =
was painted red instead of the enamel.&quot;</b></span></i></div><div><br><=
/div><div>Karla Maxwell, a trained jeweler with 45+ years experience who ow=
ns Maxwell Enamels will tell you, as she told me 25 years ago that automoti=
ve badges are enamel and NOT Cloisonne.=C2=A0 Karla is the premier automoti=
ve emblem restorer in the US, is in high demand for Pebble Beach participan=
ts, is a neighbor and personal friend of 25+ years. Karla has restored a nu=
mber of badges personally for me, and I have done some Bakelite restoration=
 work for Karla for Pebble Beach cars that she was working on.=C2=A0 Oh, an=
d Karla&#39;s business is Maxwell Enamels NOT Maxwell Cloisonne.=C2=A0 In t=
he UK the best known badge restorer is PD Enamels, NOT PD Cloisonne.</div><=
div><br></div><div>I hope that this clears things up once and for all.</div=
><div><br></div><div>This is from Karla&#39;s FAQ section of her website...=
=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www.maxwellenamels.com/FAQs.html" target=3D"_blank"=
 rel=3D"noreferrer">http://www.maxwellenamels.com/FAQs.html</a></div><div><=
div class=3D"m_-6646412867575244822gmail-sf_content" style=3D"float:right;w=
idth:463px;font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12px;pa=
dding:15px 20px 20px 10px;background-image:initial;background-position:init=
ial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:ini=
tial;background-clip:initial;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><div style=3D"zoom:1"><div i=
d=3D"m_-6646412867575244822gmail-content1" style=3D"width:439.844px;padding=
:5px 10px;overflow:hidden"><span style=3D"text-decoration-line:underline"><=
p style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0pt"><font size=3D"2"><font color=3D"#0b1a7a"><fo=
nt face=3D"Arial"><b>FAQ... How was my emblem created?=C2=A0</b></font></fo=
nt></font></p><p><font face=3D"Arial"><font size=3D"2">These enameled emble=
ms are often, <b><span style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,0)">incorrectl=
y</span>, referred to as=C2=A0<i>cloisonn=C3=A9</i></b>. Cloisonn=C3=A9 is =
an enamel process in which separate bands of metal are bent then applied to=
 a base. These labor intensive bands encase the enamel and create the desig=
n. <span style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,0)">I have yet to see an aut=
omobile emblem done with cloisonn=C3=A9.</span> The process that is used is=
 called=C2=A0<i>champlev=C3=A9</i>=C2=A0(pronounced shomp=C2=B4-leh-vay).</=
font></font></p></span><p style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0pt"><font face=3D"Arial"=
><font size=3D"2">The champlev=C3=A9 technique involves=C2=A0applying ename=
l into depressions in the base metal. These depressions may be etched, engr=
aved or, in the case of automobile emblems, die stamped. The stamping proce=
ss can also include the beautiful design work that shows under transparent =
enamels.</font></font>=C2=A0</p><p><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">Historic=
ally the word enamel meant glass but today it seems to refer to any shiny c=
olor. The correct terminology is=C2=A0<i>vitreous</i>=C2=A0[glass] enamel. =
It is a true glass that melts and fuses around 1400 degrees F.=C2=A0 Enamel=
 can be obtained as opaque, translucent or transparent. The colors are crea=
ted by the addition of metallic oxides to the glass.</font></p><p style=3D"=
margin:0in 0in 0pt"><font face=3D"Arial"><font size=3D"2"><br></font></font=
></p><p style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0pt">=C2=A0<font face=3D"Arial"><font size=
=3D"2"><br></font></font></p></div></div></div></div><div><br></div><div><b=
r></div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Thu,=
 Oct 18, 2018 at 8:31 PM Gary R. Brierton &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gbrierton@h=
otmail.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]</a>&=
gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0=
 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

<div dir=3D"ltr">

_______________________________________________<br>
rer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
<br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys" rel=3D"noreferre=
r noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys</a> <=
a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" targ=
et=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferr=
er">[email-masked]</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys" rel=3D"noreferre=
r noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/heal=
eys</a><br>
<br>
s/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http:=
//autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div></div></div>

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[email-masked]

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---

From: "Roger Moment" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 06:06:25 -0600

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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To all,

I=E2=80=99m not clear about who wrote what, but ALL Healey wing badges =
WERE CLOISONN=C3=89 (up to late BJ8s, starting in Dec. 1966, as stated =
in the current Guidelines)!!!!!!!!  You can tell  this because the red =
lettering color is transparent and you can see through to the backing.

This is why you cannot just repair the red on a badge.  The =
Cloisonn=C3=A9 process requires high heat and would destroy the Cr =
plating =E2=80=93 they do the lettering first and plate with Cr =
afterwards.

I have had manly original badges restored by P-D Enamels in England.  =
Yes, their name has =E2=80=9CEnamels=E2=80=9D in it, but the process =
they use to replicate original badges like the Healey winged ones is =
Cloisonn=C3=A9.  They have seen a very large number of these and have =
restored them exactly as-new.  They agree that the red =
=E2=80=98fill=E2=80=99 was Cloisonn=C3=A9!!!  They restore them with =
this material.

Look at old defective badges.  Where the color has started to separate =
from the backing it looks darker.  This is because you are looking =
through a glass and can identify separation from the backing.   Where it =
is missing in places it looks exactly like chipped out glass, not paint. =
 It is much thicker than paint.

On the late BJ8s they went to paint.  This looks totally different!!!

The Guidelines as currently written are correct!!  DO NOT CHANGE!!!!!!!!

I=E2=80=99ll =E2=80=98go to the mat=E2=80=99 on this!!!!

Roger

From: Curtis Arndt=20
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 11:42 PM
To: gary brierton=20
Cc: Healey List ; Michael Salter ; Roland Wilhelmy ; Roger Moment=20
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Paint type

Gary,=20

With all due respect, sorry but you are mistaken on a number of points.=20

Michael Salter... Please make this my first revision for the next =
Concours Guidelines update.=20

First off, the badges were never Cloisonne, they are red enamel.  Yes, =
the Concours Guidelines state that they are Cloisonne, the Guidelines =
are WRONG.  I am officially submitting an update for the next Concours =
Guidelines revision.

"All cars up through the Mark I 3000s had flat Austin-Healey "wings" =
mounted on the front between the grille and bonnet opening, with red =
cloisonn=C3=A9 lettering inset in chrome." =20

Change to read "red enamel lettering"

Secondly, all Austin Healey badges were red enamel from the very first =
BN1 in 1953 through the BJ8 at chassis no. 39975. After that they were =
indeed painted red.  Also copied from the Concours Guidelines...

"BJ8s produced starting around C. 39,975 (approximate date =E2=80=93 =
December 1966) had a similar badge that was not cloisonn=C3=A9 but was =
painted red instead of the cloisonn=C3=A9. These later badges have a =
smooth background instead of the pebbled background of the enameled =
badges."=20

Change to read "was not enamel but was painted red instead of the =
enamel."

Karla Maxwell, a trained jeweler with 45+ years experience who owns =
Maxwell Enamels will tell you, as she told me 25 years ago that =
automotive badges are enamel and NOT Cloisonne.  Karla is the premier =
automotive emblem restorer in the US, is in high demand for Pebble Beach =
participants, is a neighbor and personal friend of 25+ years. Karla has =
restored a number of badges personally for me, and I have done some =
Bakelite restoration work for Karla for Pebble Beach cars that she was =
working on.  Oh, and Karla's business is Maxwell Enamels NOT Maxwell =
Cloisonne.  In the UK the best known badge restorer is PD Enamels, NOT =
PD Cloisonne.

This is from Karla's FAQ section of her website... =
http://www.maxwellenamels.com/FAQs.html
FAQ... How was my emblem created?=20

These enameled emblems are often, incorrectly, referred to as =
cloisonn=C3=A9. Cloisonn=C3=A9 is an enamel process in which separate =
bands of metal are bent then applied to a base. These labor intensive =
bands encase the enamel and create the design. I have yet to see an =
automobile emblem done with cloisonn=C3=A9. The process that is used is =
called champlev=C3=A9 (pronounced shomp=C2=B4-leh-vay).

The champlev=C3=A9 technique involves applying enamel into depressions =
in the base metal. These depressions may be etched, engraved or, in the =
case of automobile emblems, die stamped. The stamping process can also =
include the beautiful design work that shows under transparent enamels.=20

Historically the word enamel meant glass but today it seems to refer to =
any shiny color. The correct terminology is vitreous [glass] enamel. It =
is a true glass that melts and fuses around 1400 degrees F.  Enamel can =
be obtained as opaque, translucent or transparent. The colors are =
created by the addition of metallic oxides to the glass.

=20

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 8:31 PM Gary R. Brierton <[email-masked]> =
wrote:

  OK...let's try and clear this up.  As I understand it, the "flat wings =
with the Austin-Healey script" commonly seen on BN1, BN2 and (I don't =
know when it stopped), had red paint of unknown shade in the etched out =
lettering.  Along came the larger badges with MKII or whatever, in =
cloisonne. THEN, to really screw us up, those badges returned to red =
paint of unknown shade, seemingly during BJ8 production.  As was true =
with almost everything involving our cars, the exact change VIN number =
for all of this is largely indeterminate, at least as far as trim pieces =
are concerned...oh, and some major body parts, like wings with one  or =
two signaling lights, swag lines, whatever.  Reliable reports (from =
D.M.H.!) state that the guiding principle in assembling our cars was =
"use up what was on hand".
  I claim no expertise beyond owning Austin-Healeys and associating with =
their owners for over 50 years (so, mainly the 6 cylinder cars).
  Take it away, Curt, Randy, Steve, et. al.=F0=9F=98=81

  Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
http://autox.team.net/archive

  [email-masked]

  Unsubscribe/Manage: =

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<HTML><HEAD></HEAD>
<BODY dir=3Dltr>
<DIV dir=3Dltr>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial'; COLOR: #000000">
<DIV>To all,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I=E2=80=99m not clear about who wrote what, but <STRONG>ALL Healey =
wing badges=20
<U><EM><FONT color=3D#ff0000>WERE</FONT></EM></U> CLOISONN=C3=89 =
(</STRONG>up to late=20
BJ8s, starting in Dec. 1966, as stated in the current=20
Guidelines<STRONG>)!!!!!!!!&nbsp; </STRONG>You can tell&nbsp; this =
because the=20
red lettering color is transparent and you can see through to the =
backing.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>This is why you cannot just repair the red on a badge.&nbsp; The =
Cloisonn=C3=A9=20
process requires high heat and would destroy the Cr plating =E2=80=93 =
they do the=20
lettering first and plate with Cr afterwards.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I have had manly original badges restored by P-D Enamels in =
England.&nbsp;=20
Yes, their name has =E2=80=9CEnamels=E2=80=9D in it, but the process =
they use to replicate=20
original badges like the Healey winged ones is Cloisonn=C3=A9.&nbsp; =
They have seen a=20
very large number of these and have restored them exactly as-new.&nbsp; =
They=20
agree that the red =E2=80=98fill=E2=80=99 was Cloisonn=C3=A9!!!&nbsp; =
They restore them with this=20
material.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Look at old defective badges.&nbsp; Where the color has started to =
separate=20
from the backing it looks darker.&nbsp; This is because you are looking =
through=20
a glass and can identify separation from the backing.&nbsp;&nbsp; Where =
it is=20
missing in places it looks exactly like chipped out glass, not =
paint.&nbsp; It=20
is much thicker than paint.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>On the late BJ8s they went to paint.&nbsp; This looks totally=20
different!!!</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The Guidelines as currently written are correct!!&nbsp; <STRONG>DO =
NOT=20
CHANGE!!!!!!!!</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><BR>I=E2=80=99ll =E2=80=98go to the mat=E2=80=99 on this!!!!</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Roger</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D'FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: =
"Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; =
DISPLAY: inline'>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style=3D"font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A =
title=[email-masked]>Curtis=20
Arndt</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 18, 2018 11:42 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=[email-masked]>gary brierton</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A title=[email-masked]>Healey List</A> ; <A=20
title=[email-masked]>Michael Salter</A> ; <A=20
title=[email-masked]>Roland Wilhelmy</A> ; <A=20
title=[email-masked]>Roger Moment</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Healeys] Paint type</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D'FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: =
"Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; =
DISPLAY: inline'>
<DIV dir=3Dltr>
<DIV dir=3Dltr>Gary,=20
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>With all due respect, sorry but you are mistaken on a number of =
points.=20
</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><B>Michael Salter... Please make this my first revision for the =
next=20
Concours Guidelines update. </B></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>First off, the badges were never Cloisonne, they are red =
enamel.&nbsp; Yes,=20
the Concours Guidelines state that they are Cloisonne, the Guidelines =
are=20
WRONG.&nbsp; I am officially submitting an update for the next Concours=20
Guidelines revision.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3Dgmail-fontstyle0=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: bookmanoldstyle; COLOR: =
rgb(0,0,0)"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; =
COLOR: rgb(34,34,34)">Copied=20
from the Concours Guidelines...</SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3Dgmail-fontstyle0=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: bookmanoldstyle; COLOR: =
rgb(0,0,0)"><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><I><SPAN class=3Dgmail-fontstyle0=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: bookmanoldstyle; COLOR: =
rgb(0,0,0)">"All=20
cars up through the Mark I 3000s had flat Austin-Healey "wings" mounted =
on the=20
front between the grille and bonnet opening, with <U>red cloisonn=C3=A9 =
lettering</U>=20
inset in chrome."</SPAN>&nbsp; </I></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Change to read<I>&nbsp;<FONT=20
face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><B>"</B></FONT></I><B><I><SPAN=20
class=3Dgmail-fontstyle0=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: bookmanoldstyle; COLOR: =
rgb(0,0,0)">red=20
enamel lettering</SPAN></I><I><FONT=20
face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">"</FONT></I></B><BR=20
style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; =
font-variant-east-asian: normal"></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>This is where the confusion first arises!</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Secondly, all Austin Healey badges were red enamel from the very =
first BN1=20
in 1953 through the BJ8 at chassis no. 39975. After that they were =
indeed=20
painted red.&nbsp; Also copied from the Concours Guidelines...</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><I><SPAN class=3Dgmail-fontstyle0=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: bookmanoldstyle; COLOR: =
rgb(0,0,0)">"BJ8s=20
produced starting around C. 39,975 (approximate date =E2=80=93 December =
1966) had a=20
similar badge that <U>was not cloisonn=C3=A9 but was painted red instead =
of the=20
cloisonn=C3=A9</U>.</SPAN>&nbsp;<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: bookmanoldstyle; COLOR: =
rgb(0,0,0)">These=20
later badges have a smooth background instead of the pebbled background =
of=20
</SPAN><SPAN class=3Dgmail-fontstyle0=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: bookmanoldstyle; COLOR: =
rgb(0,0,0)">the=20
enameled badges." </SPAN></I></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Change to read<I>&nbsp;<B>"</B></I><I><SPAN =
class=3Dgmail-fontstyle0=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: bookmanoldstyle; COLOR: =
rgb(0,0,0)"><B>was=20
not enamel but was painted red instead of the =
enamel."</B></SPAN></I></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Karla Maxwell, a trained jeweler with 45+ years experience who owns =
Maxwell=20
Enamels will tell you, as she told me 25 years ago that automotive =
badges are=20
enamel and NOT Cloisonne.&nbsp; Karla is the premier automotive emblem =
restorer=20
in the US, is in high demand for Pebble Beach participants, is a =
neighbor and=20
personal friend of 25+ years. Karla has restored a number of badges =
personally=20
for me, and I have done some Bakelite restoration work for Karla for =
Pebble=20
Beach cars that she was working on.&nbsp; Oh, and Karla's business is =
Maxwell=20
Enamels NOT Maxwell Cloisonne.&nbsp; In the UK the best known badge =
restorer is=20
PD Enamels, NOT PD Cloisonne.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I hope that this clears things up once and for all.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>This is from Karla's FAQ section of her website... <A=20
href=3D"http://www.maxwellenamels.com/FAQs.html">http://www.maxwellenamel=
s.com/FAQs.html</A></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=3Dgmail-sf_content=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-FAMILY: =
verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif; WIDTH: 463px; FLOAT: right; COLOR: =
rgb(0,0,0); PADDING-BOTTOM: 20px; PADDING-TOP: 15px; PADDING-LEFT: 10px; =
PADDING-RIGHT: 20px; background-size: initial; background-origin: =
initial; background-clip: initial">
<DIV style=3D"ZOOM: 1">
<DIV id=3Dgmail-content1=20
style=3D"OVERFLOW: hidden; WIDTH: 439px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 5px; =
PADDING-TOP: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 10px; PADDING-RIGHT: 10px"><SPAN=20
style=3D"text-decoration-line: underline">
<P style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3D2><FONT =
color=3D#0b1a7a><FONT=20
face=3DArial><B>FAQ... How was my emblem created? =
</B></FONT></FONT></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2>These enameled emblems are often, =
<B><SPAN=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,0)">incorrectly</SPAN>, referred =
to as=20
<I>cloisonn=C3=A9</I></B>. Cloisonn=C3=A9 is an enamel process in which =
separate bands of=20
metal are bent then applied to a base. These labor intensive bands =
encase the=20
enamel and create the design. <SPAN style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: =
rgb(255,255,0)">I=20
have yet to see an automobile emblem done with cloisonn=C3=A9.</SPAN> =
The process=20
that is used is called <I>champlev=C3=A9</I> (pronounced=20
shomp=C2=B4-leh-vay).</FONT></FONT></P></SPAN>
<P style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2>The =
champlev=C3=A9=20
technique involves applying enamel into depressions in the base metal. =
These=20
depressions may be etched, engraved or, in the case of automobile =
emblems, die=20
stamped. The stamping process can also include the beautiful design work =
that=20
shows under transparent enamels.</FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
<P><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Historically the word enamel meant glass =
but today it=20
seems to refer to any shiny color. The correct terminology is =
<I>vitreous</I>=20
[glass] enamel. It is a true glass that melts and fuses around 1400 =
degrees=20
F.&nbsp; Enamel can be obtained as opaque, translucent or transparent. =
The=20
colors are created by the addition of metallic oxides to the =
glass.</FONT></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3DArial><FONT=20
size=3D2><BR></FONT></FONT></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3DArial><FONT=20
size=3D2><BR></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>
<DIV dir=3Dltr>On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 8:31 PM Gary R. Brierton=20
&lt;<A>[email-masked]</A>&gt; wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex">
  <DIV dir=3Dltr>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri,helvetica,sans-serif; =
COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)">
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: =
calibri,helvetica,sans-serif,serif,emojifont">OK...let's=20
  try and clear this up.&nbsp; As I understand it, the "flat wings with =
the=20
  Austin-Healey script" commonly seen on BN1, BN2 and (I don't know when =
it=20
  stopped), had red paint of unknown shade in the etched out =
lettering.&nbsp;=20
  Along came the larger badges with MKII or whatever, in <SPAN=20
  style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: "times new roman","new =
york",times,serif,serif,emojifont'>cloisonne</SPAN>.=20
  THEN, to really screw us up, those badges returned to red paint of =
unknown=20
  shade, seemingly during BJ8 production.&nbsp; As was true with almost=20
  everything involving our cars, the exact change VIN number for all of =
this is=20
  largely indeterminate, at least as far as trim pieces are =
concerned...oh, and=20
  some major body parts, like wings with one&nbsp; or two signaling =
lights, swag=20
  lines, whatever.&nbsp; Reliable reports (from D.M.H.!) state that the =
guiding=20
  principle in assembling our cars was "use up what was on hand".</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: =
calibri,helvetica,sans-serif,serif,emojifont">I claim=20
  no expertise beyond owning Austin-Healeys and associating with their =
owners=20
  for over 50 years (so, mainly the 6 cylinder cars).</DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D'FONT-FAMILY: emojifont,calibri,helvetica,sans-serif,"Apple =
Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",notocoloremoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android =
Emoji",emojisymbols; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)'>Take=20
  it away, Curt, Randy, Steve, et. al.<SPAN>=F0=9F=98=81</SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri,helvetica,sans-serif; =
COLOR: =
rgb(0,0,0)"></DIV></DIV>_______________________________________________<B=
R>Support=20
  Team.Net <A href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" rel=3Dnoreferrer=20
  target=3D_blank>http://www.team.net/donate.html</A><BR>Suggested =
annual=20
  donation&nbsp; $12.75<BR><BR>Archive: <A=20
  href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys" rel=3Dnoreferrer=20
  target=3D_blank>http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys</A> <A=20
  href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3Dnoreferrer=20
  target=3D_blank>http://autox.team.net/archive</A><BR><BR><A=20
  target=3D_blank>[email-masked]</A><BR><A=20
  href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys" =
rel=3Dnoreferrer=20
  =
target=3D_blank>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</A><BR><BR=
>Unsubscribe/Manage:=20
  <A =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]"=
=20
  rel=3Dnoreferrer=20
  =
target=3D_blank>http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/cnaarndt@gm=
ail.com</A><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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[email-masked]

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---

From: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 14:59:17 +0000 (UTC)

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Nice write up and documentation , Thanks Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Thursday, October 18, 2018, 10:42 PM, Curtis Arndt <[email-masked]> =
wrote:

Gary,
With all due respect, sorry but you are mistaken on a number of points.=C2=
=A0
Michael Salter... Please make this my first revision for the next Concours =
Guidelines update.=C2=A0
First off, the badges were never Cloisonne, they are red enamel.=C2=A0 Yes,=
 the Concours Guidelines state that they are Cloisonne, the Guidelines are =
WRONG.=C2=A0 I am officially submitting an update for the next Concours Gui=
delines revision.
Copied from the Concours Guidelines...
"All cars up through the Mark I 3000s had flat Austin-Healey "wings" mounte=
d on the front between the grille and bonnet opening, with red cloisonn=C3=
=A9 lettering inset in chrome."=C2=A0=C2=A0
Change to read=C2=A0"red enamel lettering"

This is where the confusion first arises!
Secondly, all Austin Healey badges were red enamel from the very first BN1 =
in 1953 through the BJ8 at chassis no. 39975. After that they were indeed p=
ainted red.=C2=A0 Also copied from the Concours Guidelines...
"BJ8s produced starting around C. 39,975 (approximate date =E2=80=93 Decemb=
er 1966) had a similar badge that was not cloisonn=C3=A9 but was painted re=
d instead of the cloisonn=C3=A9.=C2=A0These later badges have a smooth back=
ground instead of the pebbled background of=C2=A0the enameled badges."=C2=
=A0
Change to read=C2=A0"was not enamel but was painted red instead of the enam=
el."
Karla Maxwell, a trained jeweler with 45+ years experience who owns Maxwell=
 Enamels will tell you, as she told me 25 years ago that automotive badges =
are enamel and NOT Cloisonne.=C2=A0 Karla is the premier automotive emblem =
restorer in the US, is in high demand for Pebble Beach participants, is a n=
eighbor and personal friend of 25+ years. Karla has restored a number of ba=
dges personally for me, and I have done some Bakelite restoration work for =
Karla for Pebble Beach cars that she was working on.=C2=A0 Oh, and Karla's =
business is Maxwell Enamels NOT Maxwell Cloisonne.=C2=A0 In the UK the best=
 known badge restorer is PD Enamels, NOT PD Cloisonne.
I hope that this clears things up once and for all.
This is from Karla's FAQ section of her website...=C2=A0http://www.maxwelle=
namels.com/FAQs.html
FAQ... How was my emblem created?=C2=A0

These enameled emblems are often, incorrectly, referred to as=C2=A0cloisonn=
=C3=A9. Cloisonn=C3=A9 is an enamel process in which separate bands of meta=
l are bent then applied to a base. These labor intensive bands encase the e=
namel and create the design. I have yet to see an automobile emblem done wi=
th cloisonn=C3=A9. The process that is used is called=C2=A0champlev=C3=A9=
=C2=A0(pronounced shomp=C2=B4-leh-vay).

The champlev=C3=A9 technique involves=C2=A0applying enamel into depressions=
 in the base metal. These depressions may be etched, engraved or, in the ca=
se of automobile emblems, die stamped. The stamping process can also includ=
e the beautiful design work that shows under transparent enamels.=C2=A0

Historically the word enamel meant glass but today it seems to refer to any=
 shiny color. The correct terminology is=C2=A0vitreous=C2=A0[glass] enamel.=
 It is a true glass that melts and fuses around 1400 degrees F.=C2=A0 Ename=
l can be obtained as opaque, translucent or transparent. The colors are cre=
ated by the addition of metallic oxides to the glass.

=C2=A0

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 8:31 PM Gary R. Brierton <[email-masked]> wr=
ote:

OK...let's try and clear this up.=C2=A0 As I understand it, the "flat wings=
 with the Austin-Healey script" commonly seen on BN1, BN2 and (I don't know=
 when it stopped), had red paint of unknown shade in the etched out letteri=
ng.=C2=A0 Along came the larger badges with MKII or whatever, incloisonne. =
THEN, to really screw us up, those badges returned to red paint of unknown =
shade, seemingly during BJ8 production.=C2=A0 As was true with almost every=
thing involving our cars, the exact change VIN number for all of this is la=
rgely indeterminate, at least as far as trim pieces are concerned...oh, and=
 some major body parts, like wings with one=C2=A0 or two signaling lights, =
swag lines, whatever.=C2=A0 Reliable reports (from D.M.H.!) state that the =
guiding principle in assembling our cars was "use up what was on hand".I cl=
aim no expertise beyond owning Austin-Healeys and associating with their ow=
ners for over 50 years (so, mainly the 6 cylinder cars).Take it away, Curt,=
 Randy, Steve, et. al.=F0=9F=98=81
_______________________________________________

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/archiv=
e

[email-masked]

gmail.com

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<html xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microso=
ft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"><head><!--[=
if gte mso 9]><xml><o:OfficeDocumentSettings><o:AllowPNG/><o:PixelsPerInch>=
96</o:PixelsPerInch></o:OfficeDocumentSettings></xml><![endif]--></head><bo=
dy>
Nice write up and documentation , Thanks Curt<br><br><br><a href=3D"https:/=
/overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=3DiOS">Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone</a><b=
r><br><p class=3D"yahoo-quoted-begin" style=3D"font-size: 15px; color: #715=
FFA; padding-top: 15px; margin-top: 0">On Thursday, October 18, 2018, 10:42=
 PM, Curtis Arndt &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:</p><blockquote class=3D=
"iosymail"><div id=3D"yiv4487996018"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Gary=
,<div><br></div><div>With all due respect, sorry but you are mistaken on a =
number of points.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><b>Michael Salter... Pleas=
e make this my first revision for the next Concours Guidelines update.&nbsp=
;</b></div><div><br></div><div>First off, the badges were never Cloisonne, =
they are red enamel.&nbsp; Yes, the Concours Guidelines state that they are=
 Cloisonne, the Guidelines are WRONG.&nbsp; I am officially submitting an u=
pdate for the next Concours Guidelines revision.</div><div><br></div><div><=
span class=3D"yiv4487996018gmail-fontstyle0" style=3D"font-family:BookmanOl=
dStyle;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial, =
Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(34,34,34);">Copied from the=
 Concours Guidelines...</span></span></div><div><span class=3D"yiv448799601=
8gmail-fontstyle0" style=3D"font-family:BookmanOldStyle;font-size:10pt;colo=
r:rgb(0,0,0);"><br></span></div><div><i><span class=3D"yiv4487996018gmail-f=
ontstyle0" style=3D"font-family:BookmanOldStyle;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,=
0,0);">"All cars up through the Mark I 3000s had flat Austin-Healey "wings"=
 mounted on the front between the grille and bonnet opening, with <u>red cl=
oisonn=C3=A9 lettering</u> inset in chrome."</span>&nbsp;&nbsp;</i></div><d=
iv><br></div><div>Change to read<i>&nbsp;<b>"</b></i><b><i><span class=3D"y=
iv4487996018gmail-fontstyle0" style=3D"font-family:BookmanOldStyle;font-siz=
e:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);">red enamel lettering</span></i><i>"</i></b><br st=
yle=3D"line-height:normal;"></div><div><br></div><div>This is where the con=
fusion first arises!</div><div><br></div><div>Secondly, all Austin Healey b=
adges were red enamel from the very first BN1 in 1953 through the BJ8 at ch=
assis no. 39975. After that they were indeed painted red.&nbsp; Also copied=
 from the Concours Guidelines...</div><div><br></div><div><i><span class=3D=
"yiv4487996018gmail-fontstyle0" style=3D"font-family:BookmanOldStyle;font-s=
ize:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);">"BJ8s produced starting around C. 39,975 (appro=
ximate date =E2=80=93 December 1966) had a similar badge that <u>was not cl=
oisonn=C3=A9 but was painted red instead of the cloisonn=C3=A9</u>.</span>&=
nbsp;<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:BookmanOldStyle;font-size:=
10pt;">These later badges have a smooth background instead of the pebbled b=
ackground of&nbsp;</span><span class=3D"yiv4487996018gmail-fontstyle0" styl=
e=3D"font-family:BookmanOldStyle;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);">the enam=
eled badges."&nbsp;</span></i></div><div><br></div><div>Change to read<i>&n=
bsp;<b>"</b></i><i><span class=3D"yiv4487996018gmail-fontstyle0" style=3D"f=
ont-family:BookmanOldStyle;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);"><b>was not ena=
mel but was painted red instead of the enamel."</b></span></i></div><div><b=
r></div><div>Karla Maxwell, a trained jeweler with 45+ years experience who=
 owns Maxwell Enamels will tell you, as she told me 25 years ago that autom=
otive badges are enamel and NOT Cloisonne.&nbsp; Karla is the premier autom=
otive emblem restorer in the US, is in high demand for Pebble Beach partici=
pants, is a neighbor and personal friend of 25+ years. Karla has restored a=
 number of badges personally for me, and I have done some Bakelite restorat=
ion work for Karla for Pebble Beach cars that she was working on.&nbsp; Oh,=
 and Karla's business is Maxwell Enamels NOT Maxwell Cloisonne.&nbsp; In th=
e UK the best known badge restorer is PD Enamels, NOT PD Cloisonne.</div><d=
iv><br></div><div>I hope that this clears things up once and for all.</div>=
<div><br></div><div>This is from Karla's FAQ section of her website...&nbsp=
;<a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.maxwellenamels.co=
m/FAQs.html">http://www.maxwellenamels.com/FAQs.html</a></div><div><div cla=
ss=3D"yiv4487996018gmail-sf_content" style=3D"float:right;width:463px;font-=
family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px;padding:15px 20=
px 20px 10px;color:rgb(0,0,0);"><div style=3D"zoom:1;"><div id=3D"yiv448799=
6018gmail-content1" style=3D"width:439.844px;padding:5px 10px;overflow:hidd=
en;"><span style=3D"text-decoration-line:underline;"><p style=3D"margin:0in=
 0in 0pt;"><b>FAQ... How was my emblem created?&nbsp;</b></p><p>These ename=
led emblems are often, <b><span style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,0);">=
incorrectly</span>, referred to as&nbsp;<i>cloisonn=C3=A9</i></b>. Cloisonn=
=C3=A9 is an enamel process in which separate bands of metal are bent then =
applied to a base. These labor intensive bands encase the enamel and create=
 the design. <span style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,0);">I have yet to=
 see an automobile emblem done with cloisonn=C3=A9.</span> The process that=
 is used is called&nbsp;<i>champlev=C3=A9</i>&nbsp;(pronounced shomp=C2=B4-=
leh-vay).</p></span><p style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0pt;">The champlev=C3=A9 tec=
hnique involves&nbsp;applying enamel into depressions in the base metal. Th=
ese depressions may be etched, engraved or, in the case of automobile emble=
ms, die stamped. The stamping process can also include the beautiful design=
 work that shows under transparent enamels.&nbsp;</p><p>Historically the wo=
rd enamel meant glass but today it seems to refer to any shiny color. The c=
orrect terminology is&nbsp;<i>vitreous</i>&nbsp;[glass] enamel. It is a tru=
e glass that melts and fuses around 1400 degrees F.&nbsp; Enamel can be obt=
ained as opaque, translucent or transparent. The colors are created by the =
addition of metallic oxides to the glass.</p><p style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0pt=
;"><br></p><p style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0pt;">&nbsp;<br></p></div></div></div=
></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div><br><div class=3D"yiv44879=
96018gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 8:31 PM Gary R. =
Brierton &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" t=
arget=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
m</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"yiv4487996018gmail_quote" st=
yle=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">

<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;col=
or:rgb(0,0,0);">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif, serif, EmojiFont;=
">OK...let's try and clear this up.&nbsp; As I understand it, the "flat win=
gs with the Austin-Healey script" commonly seen on BN1, BN2 and (I don't kn=
ow when it stopped), had red paint of unknown
 shade in the etched out lettering.&nbsp; Along came the larger badges with=
 MKII or whatever, in
<span style=3D"font-family:new times, serif, serif, EmojiFont;font-size:16p=
x;">
cloisonne</span>. THEN, to really screw us up, those badges returned to red=
 paint of unknown shade, seemingly during BJ8 production.&nbsp; As was true=
 with almost everything involving our cars, the exact change VIN number for=
 all of this is largely indeterminate,
 at least as far as trim pieces are concerned...oh, and some major body par=
ts, like wings with one&nbsp; or two signaling lights, swag lines, whatever=
.&nbsp; Reliable reports (from D.M.H.!) state that the guiding principle in=
 assembling our cars was "use up what was
 on hand".</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif, serif, EmojiFont;=
">I claim no expertise beyond owning Austin-Healeys and associating with th=
eir owners for over 50 years (so, mainly the 6 cylinder cars).</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:EmojiFont, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif, Color =
UI NotoColorEmoji, UI EmojiSymbols;color:rgb(0,0,0);">
Take it away, Curt, Randy, Steve, et. al.<span>=F0=9F=98=81</span></div>
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;col=
or:rgb(0,0,0);">
</div>
</div>

_______________________________________________<br>
eam.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
<br>
Archive: <a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.team.net/=
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llow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive">http://autox=
.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
<a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_bl=
ank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
<a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman=
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<br>
tox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]">http://autox.team.=
net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div></div><blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>
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From: "Craig & Sue Rice" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 05:33:11 -0400

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Badge Connoisseurs,

=20

After all the rhetoric on this subject, I can say that Roger =
Moment=E2=80=99s message is SPOT ON. My original BN1 & BN2 (original =
owner) badge lettering pockets are filled with a red glasslike =
transparent material.

=20

As far as changes to the =E2=80=9CConcours Guidelines=E2=80=9D, I might =
suggest that the word =E2=80=9Cflat=E2=80=9D be changed to =
=E2=80=9Cslightly curved=E2=80=9D. I calculated my original BN1 & BN2 =
badges plus other original (not aftermarket) badges in my inventory at a =
60 to 85 inch radius to fit the shroud profile. I would think the badges =
were manufactured with this curvature before the chrome plating and =
CLOISONN=C3=89 process.

=20

Craig Rice

BN1 & BN2 Original Owner=20

=20

From: Healeys <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of Roger Moment
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 8:06 AM
To: Curtis Arndt <[email-masked]>; gary brierton =
<[email-masked]>
Cc: Sean and Tricia Johnson <[email-masked]>; Michael Salter =
<[email-masked]>; Healey List <[email-masked]>; Tom, =
Kaye Kovacs <[email-masked]>; carol hodgman <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Paint type

=20

To all,

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

Roger

=20

From: Curtis Arndt=20

To: gary brierton=20

=20

Gary,=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 8:31 PM Gary R. Brierton <[email-masked] =

=20

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>Badge =
Connoisseurs,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>After all the rhetoric on this subject, I can say that =
Roger Moment=E2=80=99s message is SPOT ON. My original BN1 &amp; BN2 =
(original owner) badge lettering pockets are filled with a red glasslike =
transparent material.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>As far as =
changes to the =E2=80=9CConcours Guidelines=E2=80=9D, I might suggest =
that the word =E2=80=9Cflat=E2=80=9D be changed to =E2=80=9Cslightly =
curved=E2=80=9D. I calculated my original BN1 &amp; BN2 badges plus =
other original (not aftermarket) badges in my inventory at a 60 to 85 =
inch radius to fit the shroud profile. I would think the badges were =
manufactured with this curvature before the chrome plating and <span =
style=3D'color:red'>CLOISONN=C3=89</span> process.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Craig =
Rice<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>BN1 &amp; BN2 Original Owner =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Healeys =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>Roger =
Moment<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 19, 2018 8:06 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
Curtis Arndt &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; gary brierton =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> Sean and Tricia Johnson =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;; Michael Salter =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;; Healey List =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;; Tom, Kaye Kovacs =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;; carol hodgman =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] Paint =
type<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>To =
all,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>&nb=
sp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>I=E2=
=80=99m not clear about who wrote what, but <strong><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>ALL Healey wing badges =
</span></strong></span><em><b><u><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:red'>WERE<=
/span></u></b></em><strong><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'> =
CLOISONN=C3=89 (</span></strong><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>up =
to late BJ8s, starting in Dec. 1966, as stated in the current =
Guidelines<strong><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>)!!!!!!!!&nbsp; =
</span></strong>You can tell&nbsp; this because the red lettering color =
is transparent and you can see through to the =
backing.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>&nb=
sp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Thi=
s is why you cannot just repair the red on a badge.&nbsp; The =
Cloisonn=C3=A9 process requires high heat and would destroy the Cr =
plating =E2=80=93 they do the lettering first and plate with Cr =
afterwards.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>&nb=
sp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>I =
have had manly original badges restored by P-D Enamels in England.&nbsp; =
Yes, their name has =E2=80=9CEnamels=E2=80=9D in it, but the process =
they use to replicate original badges like the Healey winged ones is =
Cloisonn=C3=A9.&nbsp; They have seen a very large number of these and =
have restored them exactly as-new.&nbsp; They agree that the red =
=E2=80=98fill=E2=80=99 was Cloisonn=C3=A9!!!&nbsp; They restore them =
with this material.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>&nb=
sp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Loo=
k at old defective badges.&nbsp; Where the color has started to separate =
from the backing it looks darker.&nbsp; This is because you are looking =
through a glass and can identify separation from the =
backing.&nbsp;&nbsp; Where it is missing in places it looks exactly like =
chipped out glass, not paint.&nbsp; It is much thicker than =
paint.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>&nb=
sp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>On =
the late BJ8s they went to paint.&nbsp; This looks totally =
different!!!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>&nb=
sp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>The=
 Guidelines as currently written are correct!!&nbsp; <strong><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>DO NOT =
CHANGE!!!!!!!!</span></strong><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><br=
>I=E2=80=99ll =E2=80=98go to the mat=E2=80=99 on =
this!!!!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>&nb=
sp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>&nb=
sp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Rog=
er<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>&n=
bsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:whitesmoke'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>Fr=
om:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'> =
Curtis Arndt <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:whitesmoke'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>Se=
nt:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'> =
Thursday, October 18, 2018 11:42 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:whitesmoke'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>To=
:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'> =
gary brierton <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:whitesmoke'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>Cc=
:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'> =
Healey List ; Michael Salter ; Roland Wilhelmy ; Roger Moment =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:whitesmoke'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>Su=
bject:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'> =
Re: [Healeys] Paint type<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
</div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Gary, =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>With all due respect, sorry but =
you are mistaken on a number of points. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Michael Salter... Please make =
this my first revision for the next Concours Guidelines update. =
</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>First off, the badges were never =
Cloisonne, they are red enamel.&nbsp; Yes, the Concours Guidelines state =
that they are Cloisonne, the Guidelines are WRONG.&nbsp; I am officially =
submitting an update for the next Concours Guidelines =
revision.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3Dgmail-fontstyle0><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222'>C=
opied from the Concours Guidelines...</span></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3Dgmail-fontstyle0><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"bookmanoldstyle",serif;color:black=
'>&quot;All cars up through the Mark I 3000s had flat Austin-Healey =
&quot;wings&quot; mounted on the front between the grille and bonnet =
opening, with <u>red cloisonn=C3=A9 lettering</u> inset in =
chrome.&quot;</span></i></span><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp; </span></i><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Change to =
read<i>&nbsp;</i></span><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>&qu=
ot;</span></i></b><span class=3Dgmail-fontstyle0><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"bookmanoldstyle",serif;color:black=
'>red enamel lettering</span></i></b></span><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>&qu=
ot;</span></i></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>This is where the confusion first =
arises!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Secondly, all Austin Healey =
badges were red enamel from the very first BN1 in 1953 through the BJ8 =
at chassis no. 39975. After that they were indeed painted red.&nbsp; =
Also copied from the Concours =
Guidelines...<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3Dgmail-fontstyle0><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"bookmanoldstyle",serif;color:black=
'>&quot;BJ8s produced starting around C. 39,975 (approximate date =
=E2=80=93 December 1966) had a similar badge that <u>was not =
cloisonn=C3=A9 but was painted red instead of the =
cloisonn=C3=A9</u>.</span></i></span><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;</span></i><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"bookmanoldstyle",serif;color:black=
'>These later badges have a smooth background instead of the pebbled =
background of <span class=3Dgmail-fontstyle0>the enameled badges.&quot; =
</span></span></i><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Change to =
read<i>&nbsp;<b>&quot;</b></i></span><span =
class=3Dgmail-fontstyle0><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"bookmanoldstyle",serif;color:black=
'>was not enamel but was painted red instead of the =
enamel.&quot;</span></i></b></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Karla Maxwell, a trained jeweler =
with 45+ years experience who owns Maxwell Enamels will tell you, as she =
told me 25 years ago that automotive badges are enamel and NOT =
Cloisonne.&nbsp; Karla is the premier automotive emblem restorer in the =
US, is in high demand for Pebble Beach participants, is a neighbor and =
personal friend of 25+ years. Karla has restored a number of badges =
personally for me, and I have done some Bakelite restoration work for =
Karla for Pebble Beach cars that she was working on.&nbsp; Oh, and =
Karla's business is Maxwell Enamels NOT Maxwell Cloisonne.&nbsp; In the =
UK the best known badge restorer is PD Enamels, NOT PD =
Cloisonne.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>I =
hope that this clears things up once and for =
all.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>This is from Karla's FAQ section =
of her website... <a =
href=3D"http://www.maxwellenamels.com/FAQs.html">http://www.maxwellenamel=
s.com/FAQs.html</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div =
id=3Dgmail-content1><p =
style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0B1A7A'>F=
AQ... How was my emblem created? </span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>The=
se enameled emblems are often, <b><span =
style=3D'background:yellow'>incorrectly</span>, referred to as =
<i>cloisonn=C3=A9</i></b>. Cloisonn=C3=A9 is an enamel process in which =
separate bands of metal are bent then applied to a base. These labor =
intensive bands encase the enamel and create the design. <span =
style=3D'background:yellow'>I have yet to see an automobile emblem done =
with cloisonn=C3=A9.</span> The process that is used is called =
<i>champlev=C3=A9</i> (pronounced shomp=C2=B4-leh-vay).</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>The=
 champlev=C3=A9 technique involves applying enamel into depressions in =
the base metal. These depressions may be etched, engraved or, in the =
case of automobile emblems, die stamped. The stamping process can also =
include the beautiful design work that shows under transparent =
enamels.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>&n=
bsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>His=
torically the word enamel meant glass but today it seems to refer to any =
shiny color. The correct terminology is <i>vitreous</i> [glass] enamel. =
It is a true glass that melts and fuses around 1400 degrees F.&nbsp; =
Enamel can be obtained as opaque, translucent or transparent. The colors =
are created by the addition of metallic oxides to the glass.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'><o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><br=
></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black'>&n=
bsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
</div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 8:31 PM =
Gary R. Brierton &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>OK...let's try and clear this =
up.&nbsp; As I understand it, the &quot;flat wings with the =
Austin-Healey script&quot; commonly seen on BN1, BN2 and (I don't know =
when it stopped), had red paint of unknown shade in the etched out =
lettering.&nbsp; Along came the larger badges with MKII or whatever, in =
</span><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:black'>cloisonne</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>. THEN, to really screw us up, =
those badges returned to red paint of unknown shade, seemingly during =
BJ8 production.&nbsp; As was true with almost everything involving our =
cars, the exact change VIN number for all of this is largely =
indeterminate, at least as far as trim pieces are concerned...oh, and =
some major body parts, like wings with one&nbsp; or two signaling =
lights, swag lines, whatever.&nbsp; Reliable reports (from D.M.H.!) =
state that the guiding principle in assembling our cars was &quot;use up =
what was on hand&quot;.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>I claim =
no expertise beyond owning Austin-Healeys and associating with their =
owners for over 50 years (so, mainly the 6 cylinder =
cars).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Take it away, Curt, Randy, Steve, =
et. al.</span><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI =
Emoji",sans-serif;color:black'>&#128513;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
</div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>__________________________________=
_____________<br>Support Team.Net <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Suggested =
annual donation&nbsp; $12.75<br><br>Archive: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys</a> <a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" =
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br><br><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br><a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys" =
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a><br><=
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gmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></div></div></div></div><=
/div></body></html>
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[email-masked]

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---

From: "BJ8Healeys" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 08:17:06 -0400

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It is truly amazing that after all the discussion -- and the proof of =
Merriam-Webster's dictionary and professional jewelers -- that there are =
folks who still insist the badges are cloisonn=C3=A9.

I think I'll check out of this discussion.

=20

Steve Byers

HBJ8L/36666

BJ8 Registry

AHCA Delegate at Large

Havelock, NC =20

=20

=20

From: Healeys [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Craig =
& Sue Rice
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2018 5:33 AM
To: 'Roger Moment'
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Paint type

=20

Badge Connoisseurs,

=20

=20

=20

Craig Rice

=20

=20

To all,

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

Roger

=20

From: Curtis Arndt=20

To: gary brierton=20

=20

Gary,=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

[email-masked]

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#002060'>It is truly amazing =
that after all the discussion -- and the proof of Merriam-Webster's =
dictionary and professional jewelers -- that there are folks who still =
insist the badges are cloisonn=C3=A9.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Comic Sans =
MS";color:#002060'>I think I'll check out of this =
discussion.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Comic Sans =
MS";color:#002060'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Comic Sans =
MS";color:#002060'>Steve Byers</span><span =
style=3D'color:#002060'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Comic Sans =
MS";color:#002060'>HBJ8L/36666</span><span =
style=3D'color:#002060'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#002060'>BJ8 =
Registry</span><span style=3D'color:#002060'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Comic Sans =
MS";color:#002060'>AHCA Delegate at Large</span><span =
style=3D'color:#002060'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#002060'>Havelock, NC&nbsp; =
</span><span style=3D'color:#002060'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#002060'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Comic Sans =
MS";color:#002060'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Healeys [mailto:[email-masked]] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Craig &amp; Sue Rice<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 25, 2018 5:33 =
AM<br><b>To:</b> 'Roger Moment'<br><b>Cc:</b> =
[email-masked]<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] Paint =
type<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Badge =
Connoisseurs,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>After all the rhetoric on this subject, I can say that =
Roger Moment=E2=80=99s message is SPOT ON. My original BN1 &amp; BN2 =
(original owner) badge lettering pockets are filled with a red glasslike =
transparent material.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>As far as =
changes to the =E2=80=9CConcours Guidelines=E2=80=9D, I might suggest =
that the word =E2=80=9Cflat=E2=80=9D be changed to =E2=80=9Cslightly =
curved=E2=80=9D. I calculated my original BN1 &amp; BN2 badges plus =
other original (not aftermarket) badges in my inventory at a 60 to 85 =
inch radius to fit the shroud profile. I would think the badges were =
manufactured with this curvature before the chrome plating and <span =
style=3D'color:red'>CLOISONN=C3=89</span> process.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Craig =
Rice<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>BN1 &amp; BN2 Original Owner =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Healeys =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>Roger =
Moment<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 19, 2018 8:06 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
Curtis Arndt &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; gary brierton =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> Sean and Tricia Johnson =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;; Michael Salter =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;; Healey List =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;; Tom, Kaye Kovacs =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;; carol hodgman =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] Paint =
type<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
o all,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I=
=E2=80=99m not clear about who wrote what, but <strong><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>ALL Healey wing badges =
</span></strong></span><em><b><u><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red'>WER=
E</span></u></b></em><strong><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> =
CLOISONN=C3=89 (</span></strong><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>u=
p to late BJ8s, starting in Dec. 1966, as stated in the current =
Guidelines<strong><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>)!!!!!!!!&nbsp; =
</span></strong>You can tell&nbsp; this because the red lettering color =
is transparent and you can see through to the =
backing.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
his is why you cannot just repair the red on a badge.&nbsp; The =
Cloisonn=C3=A9 process requires high heat and would destroy the Cr =
plating =E2=80=93 they do the lettering first and plate with Cr =
afterwards.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I=
 have had manly original badges restored by P-D Enamels in =
England.&nbsp; Yes, their name has =E2=80=9CEnamels=E2=80=9D in it, but =
the process they use to replicate original badges like the Healey winged =
ones is Cloisonn=C3=A9.&nbsp; They have seen a very large number of =
these and have restored them exactly as-new.&nbsp; They agree that the =
red =E2=80=98fill=E2=80=99 was Cloisonn=C3=A9!!!&nbsp; They restore them =
with this material.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>L=
ook at old defective badges.&nbsp; Where the color has started to =
separate from the backing it looks darker.&nbsp; This is because you are =
looking through a glass and can identify separation from the =
backing.&nbsp;&nbsp; Where it is missing in places it looks exactly like =
chipped out glass, not paint.&nbsp; It is much thicker than =
paint.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>O=
n the late BJ8s they went to paint.&nbsp; This looks totally =
different!!!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he Guidelines as currently written are correct!!&nbsp; <strong><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>DO NOT =
CHANGE!!!!!!!!</span></strong><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
br>I=E2=80=99ll =E2=80=98go to the mat=E2=80=99 on =
this!!!!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>R=
oger<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:whitesmoke'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
 Curtis Arndt <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:whitesmoke'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
Sent:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
 Thursday, October 18, 2018 11:42 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:whitesmoke'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
To:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
 gary brierton <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:whitesmoke'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
Cc:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
 Healey List ; Michael Salter ; Roland Wilhelmy ; Roger Moment =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:whitesmoke'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
Subject:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>=
 Re: [Healeys] Paint type<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
</div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Gary, =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>With all due respect, sorry but =
you are mistaken on a number of points. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Michael Salter... Please make =
this my first revision for the next Concours Guidelines update. =
</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>First off, the badges were never =
Cloisonne, they are red enamel.&nbsp; Yes, the Concours Guidelines state =
that they are Cloisonne, the Guidelines are WRONG.&nbsp; I am officially =
submitting an update for the next Concours Guidelines =
revision.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3Dgmail-fontstyle0><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222'=
>Copied from the Concours Guidelines...</span></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3Dgmail-fontstyle0><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:bookmanoldstyle;color:black'>&quot;=
All cars up through the Mark I 3000s had flat Austin-Healey =
&quot;wings&quot; mounted on the front between the grille and bonnet =
opening, with <u>red cloisonn=C3=A9 lettering</u> inset in =
chrome.&quot;</span></i></span><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp; </span></i><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Change to =
read<i>&nbsp;</i></span><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
quot;</span></i></b><span class=3Dgmail-fontstyle0><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:bookmanoldstyle;color:black'>red =
enamel lettering</span></i></b></span><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
quot;</span></i></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>This is where the confusion first =
arises!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Secondly, all Austin Healey =
badges were red enamel from the very first BN1 in 1953 through the BJ8 =
at chassis no. 39975. After that they were indeed painted red.&nbsp; =
Also copied from the Concours =
Guidelines...<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3Dgmail-fontstyle0><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:bookmanoldstyle;color:black'>&quot;=
BJ8s produced starting around C. 39,975 (approximate date =E2=80=93 =
December 1966) had a similar badge that <u>was not cloisonn=C3=A9 but =
was painted red instead of the =
cloisonn=C3=A9</u>.</span></i></span><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;</span></i><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:bookmanoldstyle;color:black'>These =
later badges have a smooth background instead of the pebbled background =
of <span class=3Dgmail-fontstyle0>the enameled badges.&quot; =
</span></span></i><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Change to =
read<i>&nbsp;<b>&quot;</b></i></span><span =
class=3Dgmail-fontstyle0><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:bookmanoldstyle;color:black'>was =
not enamel but was painted red instead of the =
enamel.&quot;</span></i></b></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Karla Maxwell, a trained jeweler =
with 45+ years experience who owns Maxwell Enamels will tell you, as she =
told me 25 years ago that automotive badges are enamel and NOT =
Cloisonne.&nbsp; Karla is the premier automotive emblem restorer in the =
US, is in high demand for Pebble Beach participants, is a neighbor and =
personal friend of 25+ years. Karla has restored a number of badges =
personally for me, and I have done some Bakelite restoration work for =
Karla for Pebble Beach cars that she was working on.&nbsp; Oh, and =
Karla's business is Maxwell Enamels NOT Maxwell Cloisonne.&nbsp; In the =
UK the best known badge restorer is PD Enamels, NOT PD =
Cloisonne.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>I =
hope that this clears things up once and for =
all.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>This is from Karla's FAQ section =
of her website... <a =
href=3D"http://www.maxwellenamels.com/FAQs.html">http://www.maxwellenamel=
s.com/FAQs.html</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div =
id=3Dgmail-content1><p =
style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#0B1A7A'=
>FAQ... How was my emblem created? </span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>=
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
hese enameled emblems are often, <b><span =
style=3D'background:yellow'>incorrectly</span>, referred to as =
<i>cloisonn=C3=A9</i></b>. Cloisonn=C3=A9 is an enamel process in which =
separate bands of metal are bent then applied to a base. These labor =
intensive bands encase the enamel and create the design. <span =
style=3D'background:yellow'>I have yet to see an automobile emblem done =
with cloisonn=C3=A9.</span> The process that is used is called =
<i>champlev=C3=A9</i> (pronounced shomp=C2=B4-leh-vay).</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>=
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>T=
he champlev=C3=A9 technique involves applying enamel into depressions in =
the base metal. These depressions may be etched, engraved or, in the =
case of automobile emblems, die stamped. The stamping process can also =
include the beautiful design work that shows under transparent =
enamels.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>H=
istorically the word enamel meant glass but today it seems to refer to =
any shiny color. The correct terminology is <i>vitreous</i> [glass] =
enamel. It is a true glass that melts and fuses around 1400 degrees =
F.&nbsp; Enamel can be obtained as opaque, translucent or transparent. =
The colors are created by the addition of metallic oxides to the =
glass.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>=
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>=
<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
br></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>=
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
</div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 8:31 PM =
Gary R. Brierton &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>OK...let's try and clear this =
up.&nbsp; As I understand it, the &quot;flat wings with the =
Austin-Healey script&quot; commonly seen on BN1, BN2 and (I don't know =
when it stopped), had red paint of unknown shade in the etched out =
lettering.&nbsp; Along came the larger badges with MKII or whatever, in =
</span><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>cloisonne</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>. THEN, to really screw us up, =
those badges returned to red paint of unknown shade, seemingly during =
BJ8 production.&nbsp; As was true with almost everything involving our =
cars, the exact change VIN number for all of this is largely =
indeterminate, at least as far as trim pieces are concerned...oh, and =
some major body parts, like wings with one&nbsp; or two signaling =
lights, swag lines, whatever.&nbsp; Reliable reports (from D.M.H.!) =
state that the guiding principle in assembling our cars was &quot;use up =
what was on hand&quot;.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>I claim =
no expertise beyond owning Austin-Healeys and associating with their =
owners for over 50 years (so, mainly the 6 cylinder =
cars).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Take it away, Curt, Randy, Steve, =
et. al.</span><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:black'>&#128513;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
</div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>__________________________________=
_____________<br>Support Team.Net <a =
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target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Suggested =
annual donation&nbsp; $12.75<br><br>Archive: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys</a> <a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" =
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br><br><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br><a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys" =
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From: John Vrugtman <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 10:28:31 -0400

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People tend to hold to their own beliefs in the face of new to them 
facts and are slow to change, normal behavior. In the case of the Healey 
badges; they have been referred to as cloisonné, the accepted name for a 
long time.

John
64/66BJ8s

On 10/25/2018 8:17 AM, BJ8Healeys wrote:
>
> It is truly amazing that after all the discussion -- and the proof of 
> Merriam-Webster's dictionary and professional jewelers -- that there 
> are folks who still insist the badges are cloisonné.
>
> Havelock, NC
> *From:*Healeys [mailto:[email-masked]] *On Behalf Of 
> *Craig & Sue Rice
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 25, 2018 5:33 AM
> *To:* 'Roger Moment'
> *Cc:* [email-masked]
> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] Paint type
>
> Badge Connoisseurs,
>
> After all the rhetoric on this subject, I can say that Roger Moment’s 
> message is SPOT ON. My original BN1 & BN2 (original owner) badge 
> lettering pockets are filled with a red glasslike transparent material.
>
> As far as changes to the “Concours Guidelines”, I might suggest that 
> the word “flat” be changed to “slightly curved”. I calculated my 
> original BN1 & BN2 badges plus other original (not aftermarket) badges 
> in my inventory at a 60 to 85 inch radius to fit the shroud profile. I 
> would think the badges were manufactured with this curvature before 
> the chrome plating and CLOISONNÉ process.
>
> Craig Rice
>
> BN1 & BN2 Original Owner
>
> *From:* Healeys <[email-masked]> *On Behalf Of *Roger 
> Moment
> *Sent:* Friday, October 19, 2018 8:06 AM
> *To:* Curtis Arndt <[email-masked]>; gary brierton 
> <[email-masked]>
> *Cc:* Sean and Tricia Johnson <[email-masked]>; Michael 
> Salter <[email-masked]>; Healey List 
> <[email-masked]>; Tom, Kaye Kovacs <[email-masked]>; carol 
> hodgman <[email-masked]>
> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] Paint type
>
> To all,
>
> I’m not clear about who wrote what, but *ALL Healey wing badges 
> */*_WERE_*/*CLOISONNÉ (*up to late BJ8s, starting in Dec. 1966, as 
> stated in the current Guidelines*)!!!!!!!! *You can tell  this because 
> the red lettering color is transparent and you can see through to the 
> backing.
>
> This is why you cannot just repair the red on a badge.  The Cloisonné 
> process requires high heat and would destroy the Cr plating – they do 
> the lettering first and plate with Cr afterwards.
>
> I have had manly original badges restored by P-D Enamels in England.  
> Yes, their name has “Enamels” in it, but the process they use to 
> replicate original badges like the Healey winged ones is Cloisonné.  
> They have seen a very large number of these and have restored them 
> exactly as-new.  They agree that the red ‘fill’ was Cloisonné!!!  They 
> restore them with this material.
>
> Look at old defective badges.  Where the color has started to separate 
> from the backing it looks darker.  This is because you are looking 
> through a glass and can identify separation from the backing.   Where 
> it is missing in places it looks exactly like chipped out glass, not 
> paint.  It is much thicker than paint.
>
> The Guidelines as currently written are correct!! *DO NOT CHANGE!!!!!!!!*
>
>
> I’ll ‘go to the mat’ on this!!!!
>
> Roger
>
> *From:*Curtis Arndt
>
> *Sent:*Thursday, October 18, 2018 11:42 PM
>
> *To:*gary brierton
>
> *Cc:*Healey List ; Michael Salter ; Roland Wilhelmy ; Roger Moment
>
> *Subject:*Re: [Healeys] Paint type
>
> Gary,
>
> First off, the badges were never Cloisonne, they are red enamel.  Yes, 
> the Concours Guidelines state that they are Cloisonne, the Guidelines 
> are WRONG.  I am officially submitting an update for the next Concours 
> Guidelines revision.
>
> /"All cars up through the Mark I 3000s had flat Austin-Healey "wings" 
> mounted on the front between the grille and bonnet opening, with _red 
> cloisonné lettering_ inset in chrome."///
>
> Change to read//*/"/**/red enamel lettering/**/"/*
>
> Secondly, all Austin Healey badges were red enamel from the very first 
> BN1 in 1953 through the BJ8 at chassis no. 39975. After that they were 
> /"BJ8s produced starting around C. 39,975 (approximate date – December 
> 1966) had a similar badge that _was not cloisonné but was painted red 
> instead of the cloisonné_.////These later badges have a smooth 
> background instead of the pebbled background of the enameled badges." /
>
> Change to read/*"*/*/was not enamel but was painted red instead of the 
> enamel."/*
>
> Maxwell Enamels will tell you, as she told me 25 years ago that 
> automotive badges are enamel and NOT Cloisonne.  Karla is the premier 
> automotive emblem restorer in the US, is in high demand for Pebble 
> Beach participants, is a neighbor and personal friend of 25+ years. 
> Karla has restored a number of badges personally for me, and I have 
> done some Bakelite restoration work for Karla for Pebble Beach cars 
> that she was working on.  Oh, and Karla's business is Maxwell Enamels 
> NOT Maxwell Cloisonne.  In the UK the best known badge restorer is PD 
> Enamels, NOT PD Cloisonne.
>
> These enameled emblems are often, *incorrectly, referred to as 
> /cloisonné/*. Cloisonné is an enamel process in which separate bands 
> of metal are bent then applied to a base. These labor intensive bands 
> encase the enamel and create the design. I have yet to see an 
> automobile emblem done with cloisonné. The process that is used is 
> called /champlevé/ (pronounced shomp´-leh-vay).
>
> The champlevé technique involves applying enamel into depressions in 
> the base metal. These depressions may be etched, engraved or, in the 
> case of automobile emblems, die stamped. The stamping process can also 
> include the beautiful design work that shows under transparent enamels.
>
> Historically the word enamel meant glass but today it seems to refer 
> to any shiny color. The correct terminology is /vitreous/ [glass] 
> enamel. It is a true glass that melts and fuses around 1400 degrees F. 
> Enamel can be obtained as opaque, translucent or transparent. The 
> colors are created by the addition of metallic oxides to the glass.
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 8:31 PM Gary R. Brierton 
>
>     OK...let's try and clear this up.  As I understand it, the "flat
>     wings with the Austin-Healey script" commonly seen on BN1, BN2 and
>     (I don't know when it stopped), had red paint of unknown shade in
>     the etched out lettering.  Along came the larger badges with MKII
>     or whatever, in cloisonne. THEN, to really screw us up, those
>     badges returned to red paint of unknown shade, seemingly during
>     BJ8 production.  As was true with almost everything involving our
>     cars, the exact change VIN number for all of this is largely
>     indeterminate, at least as far as trim pieces are concerned...oh,
>     and some major body parts, like wings with one  or two signaling
>     lights, swag lines, whatever. Reliable reports (from D.M.H.!)
>     state that the guiding principle in assembling our cars was "use
>     up what was on hand".
>
>     I claim no expertise beyond owning Austin-Healeys and associating
>     with their owners for over 50 years (so, mainly the 6 cylinder cars).
>
>     Take it away, Curt, Randy, Steve, et. al.😁
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]
>

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    <p style="margin-bottom: 0in">People tend to hold to their own
      beliefs in the face of new to them facts and are slow to change,
      normal behavior. In the case of the Healey badges; they have been
      referred to as <font color="#002060"><font face="Comic Sans MS">cloisonné,</font></font>
      the accepted name for a long time.</p>
    <br>
    John<br>
    64/66BJ8s<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/25/2018 8:17 AM, BJ8Healeys
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:[email-masked]">
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      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:&quot;Comic Sans
            MS&quot;;color:#002060">It is truly amazing that after all
            the discussion -- and the proof of Merriam-Webster's
            dictionary and professional jewelers -- that there are folks
            who still insist the badges are cloisonné.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:&quot;Comic Sans
            MS&quot;;color:#002060">I think I'll check out of this
            discussion.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:&quot;Comic Sans
            MS&quot;;color:#002060"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:&quot;Comic Sans
              MS&quot;;color:#002060">Steve Byers</span><span
              style="color:#002060"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:&quot;Comic Sans
              MS&quot;;color:#002060">HBJ8L/36666</span><span
              style="color:#002060"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:&quot;Comic Sans
              MS&quot;;color:#002060">BJ8 Registry</span><span
              style="color:#002060"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:&quot;Comic Sans
              MS&quot;;color:#002060">AHCA Delegate at Large</span><span
              style="color:#002060"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:&quot;Comic Sans
              MS&quot;;color:#002060">Havelock, NC  </span><span
              style="color:#002060"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:&quot;Comic Sans
            MS&quot;;color:#002060"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
            1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
                Healeys [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:[email-masked]">mailto:[email-masked]</a>] <b>On
                  Behalf Of </b>Craig &amp; Sue Rice<br>
                <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 25, 2018 5:33 AM<br>
                <b>To:</b> 'Roger Moment'<br>
                <b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
                <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] Paint type<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Badge Connoisseurs,<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">After all the rhetoric on this subject, I
          can say that Roger Moment’s message is SPOT ON. My original
          BN1 &amp; BN2 (original owner) badge lettering pockets are
          filled with a red glasslike transparent material.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">As far as changes to the “Concours
          Guidelines”, I might suggest that the word “flat” be changed
          to “slightly curved”. I calculated my original BN1 &amp; BN2
          badges plus other original (not aftermarket) badges in my
          inventory at a 60 to 85 inch radius to fit the shroud profile.
          I would think the badges were manufactured with this curvature
          before the chrome plating and <span style="color:red">CLOISONNÉ</span>
          process.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Craig Rice<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">BN1 &amp; BN2 Original Owner <o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <div>
          <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
            1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Healeys
              <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Roger
              Moment<br>
              <b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 19, 2018 8:06 AM<br>
              <b>To:</b> Curtis Arndt <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a>; gary
              brierton <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a><br>
              <b>Cc:</b> Sean and Tricia Johnson
              <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a>; Michael Salter
              <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a>; Healey List
              <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a>; Tom, Kaye Kovacs
              <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a>; carol hodgman
              <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a><br>
              <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] Paint type<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <div>
          <div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">To
                  all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">I’m
                  not clear about who wrote what, but <strong><span
                      style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">ALL
                      Healey wing badges </span></strong></span><em><b><u><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:red">WERE</span></u></b></em><strong><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">
                    CLOISONNÉ (</span></strong><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">up
                  to late BJ8s, starting in Dec. 1966, as stated in the
                  current Guidelines<strong><span
                      style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">)!!!!!!!! 
                    </span></strong>You can tell  this because the red
                  lettering color is transparent and you can see through
                  to the backing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">This
                  is why you cannot just repair the red on a badge.  The
                  Cloisonné process requires high heat and would destroy
                  the Cr plating – they do the lettering first and plate
                  with Cr afterwards.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">I
                  have had manly original badges restored by P-D Enamels
                  in England.  Yes, their name has “Enamels” in it, but
                  the process they use to replicate original badges like
                  the Healey winged ones is Cloisonné.  They have seen a
                  very large number of these and have restored them
                  exactly as-new.  They agree that the red ‘fill’ was
                  Cloisonné!!!  They restore them with this material.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Look
                  at old defective badges.  Where the color has started
                  to separate from the backing it looks darker.  This is
                  because you are looking through a glass and can
                  identify separation from the backing.   Where it is
                  missing in places it looks exactly like chipped out
                  glass, not paint.  It is much thicker than paint.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">On
                  the late BJ8s they went to paint.  This looks totally
                  different!!!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">The
                  Guidelines as currently written are correct!!  <strong><span
style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">DO NOT
                      CHANGE!!!!!!!!</span></strong><o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><br>
                  I’ll ‘go to the mat’ on this!!!!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Roger<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">
                        Curtis Arndt <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Sent:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">
                        Thursday, October 18, 2018 11:42 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">To:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">
                        gary brierton <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Cc:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">
                        Healey List ; Michael Salter ; Roland Wilhelmy ;
                        Roger Moment <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Subject:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">
                        Re: [Healeys] Paint type<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
              </div>
            </div>
            <div>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Gary, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">With all
                        due respect, sorry but you are mistaken on a
                        number of points. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                          style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Michael
                          Salter... Please make this my first revision
                          for the next Concours Guidelines update. </span></b><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">First off,
                        the badges were never Cloisonne, they are red
                        enamel.  Yes, the Concours Guidelines state that
                        they are Cloisonne, the Guidelines are WRONG.  I
                        am officially submitting an update for the next
                        Concours Guidelines revision.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-fontstyle0"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#222222">Copied
                          from the Concours Guidelines...</span></span><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-fontstyle0"><i><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:bookmanoldstyle;color:black">"All
                            cars up through the Mark I 3000s had flat
                            Austin-Healey "wings" mounted on the front
                            between the grille and bonnet opening, with
                            <u>red cloisonné lettering</u> inset in
                            chrome."</span></i></span><i><span
                          style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">  </span></i><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Change to
                        read<i> </i></span><b><i><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">"</span></i></b><span
                        class="gmail-fontstyle0"><b><i><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:bookmanoldstyle;color:black">red
                              enamel lettering</span></i></b></span><b><i><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">"</span></i></b><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">This is
                        where the confusion first arises!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Secondly,
                        all Austin Healey badges were red enamel from
                        the very first BN1 in 1953 through the BJ8 at
                        chassis no. 39975. After that they were indeed
                        painted red.  Also copied from the Concours
                        Guidelines...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-fontstyle0"><i><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:bookmanoldstyle;color:black">"BJ8s
                            produced starting around C. 39,975
                            (approximate date – December 1966) had a
                            similar badge that <u>was not cloisonné but
                              was painted red instead of the cloisonné</u>.</span></i></span><i><span
                          style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span></i><i><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:bookmanoldstyle;color:black">These
                          later badges have a smooth background instead
                          of the pebbled background of <span
                            class="gmail-fontstyle0">the enameled
                            badges." </span></span></i><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Change to
                        read<i> <b>"</b></i></span><span
                        class="gmail-fontstyle0"><b><i><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:bookmanoldstyle;color:black">was
                              not enamel but was painted red instead of
                              the enamel."</span></i></b></span><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Karla
                        Maxwell, a trained jeweler with 45+ years
                        experience who owns Maxwell Enamels will tell
                        you, as she told me 25 years ago that automotive
                        badges are enamel and NOT Cloisonne.  Karla is
                        the premier automotive emblem restorer in the
                        US, is in high demand for Pebble Beach
                        participants, is a neighbor and personal friend
                        of 25+ years. Karla has restored a number of
                        badges personally for me, and I have done some
                        Bakelite restoration work for Karla for Pebble
                        Beach cars that she was working on.  Oh, and
                        Karla's business is Maxwell Enamels NOT Maxwell
                        Cloisonne.  In the UK the best known badge
                        restorer is PD Enamels, NOT PD Cloisonne.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">I hope that
                        this clears things up once and for all.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">This is
                        from Karla's FAQ section of her website... <a
                          href="http://www.maxwellenamels.com/FAQs.html"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.maxwellenamels.com/FAQs.html</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <div id="gmail-content1">
                          <p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#0B1A7A">FAQ...
                                How was my emblem created? </span></b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">These
                              enameled emblems are often, <b><span
                                  style="background:yellow">incorrectly</span>,
                                referred to as <i>cloisonné</i></b>.
                              Cloisonné is an enamel process in which
                              separate bands of metal are bent then
                              applied to a base. These labor intensive
                              bands encase the enamel and create the
                              design. <span style="background:yellow">I
                                have yet to see an automobile emblem
                                done with cloisonné.</span> The process
                              that is used is called <i>champlevé</i>
                              (pronounced shomp´-leh-vay).</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">The
                              champlevé technique involves applying
                              enamel into depressions in the base metal.
                              These depressions may be etched, engraved
                              or, in the case of automobile emblems, die
                              stamped. The stamping process can also
                              include the beautiful design work that
                              shows under transparent enamels.</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Historically
                              the word enamel meant glass but today it
                              seems to refer to any shiny color. The
                              correct terminology is <i>vitreous</i>
                              [glass] enamel. It is a true glass that
                              melts and fuses around 1400 degrees F. 
                              Enamel can be obtained as opaque,
                              translucent or transparent. The colors are
                              created by the addition of metallic oxides
                              to the glass.</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
                          <p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><br>
                            </span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">On Thu, Oct
                      18, 2018 at 8:31 PM Gary R. Brierton &lt;<a
                        href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                      wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                </div>
                <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
                  1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">OK...let's
                            try and clear this up.  As I understand it,
                            the "flat wings with the Austin-Healey
                            script" commonly seen on BN1, BN2 and (I
                            don't know when it stopped), had red paint
                            of unknown shade in the etched out
                            lettering.  Along came the larger badges
                            with MKII or whatever, in </span><span
                            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times
                            New
                            Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black">cloisonne</span><span
                            style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">. THEN,
                            to really screw us up, those badges returned
                            to red paint of unknown shade, seemingly
                            during BJ8 production.  As was true with
                            almost everything involving our cars, the
                            exact change VIN number for all of this is
                            largely indeterminate, at least as far as
                            trim pieces are concerned...oh, and some
                            major body parts, like wings with one  or
                            two signaling lights, swag lines, whatever. 
                            Reliable reports (from D.M.H.!) state that
                            the guiding principle in assembling our cars
                            was "use up what was on hand".<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">I claim
                            no expertise beyond owning Austin-Healeys
                            and associating with their owners for over
                            50 years (so, mainly the 6 cylinder cars).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Take it
                            away, Curt, Randy, Steve, et. al.</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                            Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:black">😁</span><span
                            style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
                      style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">_______________________________________________<br>
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                </blockquote>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
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      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________

Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys">http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://autox.team.net/archive">http://autox.team.net/archive</a>

<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a>

</pre>
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From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 11:53:30 +0100

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As I said in a previous email, PamelaDavid did refer to the process as =
=E2=80=9Ccloisonn=C3=A9=E2=80=9D. (No hyphen!). =20

Simon

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Sent: 19 October 2018 13:06

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To all,

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Roger

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From: Curtis Arndt=20

To: gary brierton=20

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Gary,=20

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>As I said in a previous email, =
PamelaDavid did refer to the process as =
=E2=80=9Ccloisonn=C3=A9=E2=80=9D. (No hyphen!). =
=C2=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Simon<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><di=
v style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> Healeys =
Moment<br><b>Sent:</b> 19 October 2018 13:06<br><b>To:</b> Curtis Arndt =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;; gary brierton =
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:p></o:p></span></p><p style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span =
:p></o:p></span></p><p style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span =
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