Subject: Re: [Healeys] oil pump

From: Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2018 07:17:03 -0700

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I'll offer what I know/have heard*.  I have the 'high capacity' type in 
my BJ8, which is what the DWR techs/sales people recommended for a road 
car.  Older 6-cyl cars had a rotor type pump.  They (the rotor type) are 
supposed to be more efficient--i.e. they pump more oil--at lower RPMs.  
At some point it was discovered, probably from service bay repairs, that 
this type of pump put an excessive shear load on the bevel gears on the 
cam that drive the pump, causing them to wear out.  Later cars started 
getting the gear type pump, which is less efficient at lower RPMs but 
puts less of a load on the cam, and is probably less expensive to 
manufacture as well (esp. if the gears are the sintered iron variety).  
I think the bevel gears on the cams were re-engineered, IIRC they got an 
additional tooth to spread the load.

The Welch HC pump is the rotor type.  I did a full engine rebuild and 
installed the DWR HC pump; I didn't notice any pressure change worth 
mentioning--I 'gained' 15 PSI at idle when I had my gauge 
overhauled--but the 'high capacity' I believe refers to volume rather 
than pressure (which, of course, is mostly dictated by engine speed).   
The 'standard type' pump is a gear type, hence it's more appropriate for 
high-RPM race engines as pump flow is proportional to RPM, and at 6K RPM 
or more you'll get plenty of oil with less load from the gear type.

I'm not positive, but if you look at the photos closely, you can see the 
'gallery plug' on the top of the case.  I suppose it allows inspection 
of the innards of the pump without having to break the case.  I believe 
it's threaded so not likely to pop out.  If you're getting a new pump 
you'll likely need a new drive shaft and, surprisingly, DWR sells it 
cheaper than our (US) vendors sell it at (I think they might import the 
DWR shaft).

* apply appropriate grains of salt

Bob

On 10/30/2018 5:12 AM, [email-masked] wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Has anyone got the Denis Welch oil pump ENG672M? See:-
>
> https://www.bighealey.co.uk/performance-parts/austin-healey/engines/3000-bottom-end?page=3
>
>
>     Their text:- “Heat treated castings for longer life and removable
>     gallery plugs to be sure it is clean are advantages of both types
>     of oil pumps we offer. We recommend the high capacity for all road
>     engines using a standard type crank up to 6000 rpm and the
>     standard pump for race engines, steel cranks or anything over 6000
>     rpm. Both are precision machined and assembled in-house to control
>     the highest quality.
>     - ENG672 is the standard type.
>     - ENG672M is the high capacity pump.”
>
> What are “removable gallery plugs”?
>
> Is it just me or is the above a bit counter-intuitive? “High capacity” 
> for road cars and “standard” for race engines? Surely the highest 
> capacity is needed where the engine is working hardest ie racing?
>
> And don’t I remember that, with the standard BMC pumps, the older type 
> is reckoned to be better than the newer type? Is this something 
> similar to Denis Welch’s two pumps?
>
> Anyhow, if anyone’s got one…..what’s it like? Did the oil pressure 
> improve at all?
>
> I’m guessing that most people will have fitted one as part of a big 
> rebuild thus they won’t have straightforward “before and after” 
> comparisons. I’m thinking of fitting mine to my engine as part of a 
> small winter project and hope I can squeeze a few more psi into the 
> system.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Simon
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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    <p>I'll offer what I know/have heard*.  I have the 'high capacity'
      type in my BJ8, which is what the DWR techs/sales people
      recommended for a road car.  Older 6-cyl cars had a rotor type
      pump.  They (the rotor type) are supposed to be more
      efficient--i.e. they pump more oil--at lower RPMs.  At some point
      it was discovered, probably from service bay repairs, that this
      type of pump put an excessive shear load on the bevel gears on the
      cam that drive the pump, causing them to wear out.  Later cars
      started getting the gear type pump, which is less efficient at
      lower RPMs but puts less of a load on the cam, and is probably
      less expensive to manufacture as well (esp. if the gears are the
      sintered iron variety).  I think the bevel gears on the cams were
      re-engineered, IIRC they got an additional tooth to spread the
      load.<br>
    </p>
    <p>The Welch HC pump is the rotor type.  I did a full engine rebuild
      and installed the DWR HC pump; I didn't notice any pressure change
      worth mentioning--I 'gained' 15 PSI at idle when I had my gauge
      overhauled--but the 'high capacity' I believe refers to volume
      rather than pressure (which, of course, is mostly dictated by
      engine speed).   The 'standard type' pump is a gear type, hence
      it's more appropriate for high-RPM race engines as pump flow is
      proportional to RPM, and at 6K RPM or more you'll get plenty of
      oil with less load from the gear type.</p>
    <p>I'm not positive, but if you look at the photos closely, you can
      see the 'gallery plug' on the top of the case.  I suppose it
      allows inspection of the innards of the pump without having to
      break the case.  I believe it's threaded so not likely to pop
      out.  If you're getting a new pump you'll likely need a new drive
      shaft and, surprisingly, DWR sells it cheaper than our (US)
      vendors sell it at (I think they might import the DWR shaft).<br>
    </p>
    * apply appropriate grains of salt<br>
    <br>
    Bob<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/30/2018 5:12 AM,
      <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> wrote:<br>
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        <p class="MsoNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Has anyone got the Denis Welch oil pump
          ENG672M? See:-<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://www.bighealey.co.uk/performance-parts/austin-healey/engines/3000-bottom-end?page=3"
            moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.bighealey.co.uk/performance-parts/austin-healey/engines/3000-bottom-end?page=3</a><o:p></o:p></p>
        <h2
style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0cm;line-height:20.25pt">Their
          text:- “<span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Heat
            treated castings for longer life and removable gallery plugs
            to be sure it is clean are advantages of both types of oil
            pumps we offer. We recommend the high capacity for all road
            engines using a standard type crank up to 6000 rpm and the
            standard pump for race engines, steel cranks or anything
            over 6000 rpm. Both are precision machined and assembled
            in-house to control the highest quality.<br>
          </span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">-
            ENG672 is the standard type.</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><br>
            - ENG672M is the high capacity pump.”<o:p></o:p></span></h2>
        <p class="MsoNormal"
          style="margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">What
            are “removable gallery plugs”?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"
          style="margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Is
            it just me or is the above a bit counter-intuitive? “High
            capacity” for road cars and “standard” for race engines?
            Surely the highest capacity is needed where the engine is
            working hardest ie racing? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"
          style="margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">And
            don’t I remember that, with the standard BMC pumps, the
            older type is reckoned to be better than the newer type? Is
            this something similar to Denis Welch’s two pumps?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"
          style="margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Anyhow,
            if anyone’s got one…..what’s it like? Did the oil pressure
            improve at all?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"
          style="margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">I’m
            guessing that most people will have fitted one as part of a
            big rebuild thus they won’t have straightforward “before and
            after” comparisons. I’m thinking of fitting mine to my
            engine as part of a small winter project and hope I can
            squeeze a few more psi into the system. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Simon<o:p></o:p></p>
      </div>
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      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________

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<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>
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---

From: "Bruce Steele" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2018 08:52:26 -0700

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I echo Bob's comments.  I've had the DWR high capacity pump for years.

Bruce Steele

Brea, CA

1960 BN7

From: Healeys [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Bob
Spidell
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2018 7:17 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Healeys] oil pump

I'll offer what I know/have heard*.  I have the 'high capacity' type in my
BJ8, which is what the DWR techs/sales people recommended for a road car.
Older 6-cyl cars had a rotor type pump.  They (the rotor type) are supposed
to be more efficient--i.e. they pump more oil--at lower RPMs.  At some point
it was discovered, probably from service bay repairs, that this type of pump
put an excessive shear load on the bevel gears on the cam that drive the
pump, causing them to wear out.  Later cars started getting the gear type
pump, which is less efficient at lower RPMs but puts less of a load on the
cam, and is probably less expensive to manufacture as well (esp. if the
gears are the sintered iron variety).  I think the bevel gears on the cams
were re-engineered, IIRC they got an additional tooth to spread the load.

The Welch HC pump is the rotor type.  I did a full engine rebuild and
installed the DWR HC pump; I didn't notice any pressure change worth
mentioning--I 'gained' 15 PSI at idle when I had my gauge overhauled--but
the 'high capacity' I believe refers to volume rather than pressure (which,
of course, is mostly dictated by engine speed).   The 'standard type' pump
is a gear type, hence it's more appropriate for high-RPM race engines as
pump flow is proportional to RPM, and at 6K RPM or more you'll get plenty of
oil with less load from the gear type.

I'm not positive, but if you look at the photos closely, you can see the
'gallery plug' on the top of the case.  I suppose it allows inspection of
the innards of the pump without having to break the case.  I believe it's
threaded so not likely to pop out.  If you're getting a new pump you'll
likely need a new drive shaft and, surprisingly, DWR sells it cheaper than
our (US) vendors sell it at (I think they might import the DWR shaft).

Bob

On 10/30/2018 5:12 AM, [email-masked]

Hi,

https://www.bighealey.co.uk/performance-parts/austin-healey/engines/3000-bot
tom-end?page=3

Their text:- "Heat treated castings for longer life and removable gallery
plugs to be sure it is clean are advantages of both types of oil pumps we
offer. We recommend the high capacity for all road engines using a standard
type crank up to 6000 rpm and the standard pump for race engines, steel
cranks or anything over 6000 rpm. Both are precision machined and assembled
in-house to control the highest quality.
- ENG672 is the standard type.
- ENG672M is the high capacity pump."

What are "removable gallery plugs"?

Is it just me or is the above a bit counter-intuitive? "High capacity" for
road cars and "standard" for race engines? Surely the highest capacity is
needed where the engine is working hardest ie racing? 

And don't I remember that, with the standard BMC pumps, the older type is
reckoned to be better than the newer type? Is this something similar to
Denis Welch's two pumps?

Anyhow, if anyone's got one...what's it like? Did the oil pressure improve
at all?

I'm guessing that most people will have fitted one as part of a big rebuild
thus they won't have straightforward "before and after" comparisons. I'm
thinking of fitting mine to my engine as part of a small winter project and
hope I can squeeze a few more psi into the system. 

Thanks,

Simon

 
 
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=3Dwhite =
lang=3DEN-US link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet =
MS",sans-serif;color:windowtext'>I echo Bob&#8217;s comments.&nbsp; =
I&#8217;ve had the DWR high capacity pump for =
years.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet =
MS",sans-serif;color:windowtext'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet =
MS",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Bruce Steele<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet =
MS",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Brea, CA<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet =
MS",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>1960 BN7<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet =
MS",sans-serif;color:windowtext'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext'> Healeys =
[mailto:[email-masked]] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Bob =
Spidell<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 30, 2018 7:17 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
[email-masked]<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] oil =
pump<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p>I'll offer what I know/have =
heard*.&nbsp; I have the 'high capacity' type in my BJ8, which is what =
the DWR techs/sales people recommended for a road car.&nbsp; Older 6-cyl =
cars had a rotor type pump.&nbsp; They (the rotor type) are supposed to =
be more efficient--i.e. they pump more oil--at lower RPMs.&nbsp; At some =
point it was discovered, probably from service bay repairs, that this =
type of pump put an excessive shear load on the bevel gears on the cam =
that drive the pump, causing them to wear out.&nbsp; Later cars started =
getting the gear type pump, which is less efficient at lower RPMs but =
puts less of a load on the cam, and is probably less expensive to =
manufacture as well (esp. if the gears are the sintered iron =
variety).&nbsp; I think the bevel gears on the cams were re-engineered, =
IIRC they got an additional tooth to spread the load.<span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p>The Welch HC pump is =
the rotor type.&nbsp; I did a full engine rebuild and installed the DWR =
HC pump; I didn't notice any pressure change worth mentioning--I =
'gained' 15 PSI at idle when I had my gauge overhauled--but the 'high =
capacity' I believe refers to volume rather than pressure (which, of =
course, is mostly dictated by engine speed).&nbsp;&nbsp; The 'standard =
type' pump is a gear type, hence it's more appropriate for high-RPM race =
engines as pump flow is proportional to RPM, and at 6K RPM or more =
you'll get plenty of oil with less load from the gear =
type.<o:p></o:p></p><p>I'm not positive, but if you look at the photos =
closely, you can see the 'gallery plug' on the top of the case.&nbsp; I =
suppose it allows inspection of the innards of the pump without having =
to break the case.&nbsp; I believe it's threaded so not likely to pop =
out.&nbsp; If you're getting a new pump you'll likely need a new drive =
shaft and, surprisingly, DWR sells it cheaper than our (US) vendors sell =
it at (I think they might import the DWR shaft).<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>* apply appropriate =
grains of salt<br><br>Bob<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
10/30/2018 5:12 AM, <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">simon.lachlan@alexareve=
l.plus.com</a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Hi,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Has anyone got =
the Denis Welch oil pump ENG672M? See:-<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"https://www.bighealey.co.uk/performance-parts/austin-healey/engin=
es/3000-bottom-end?page=3D3">https://www.bighealey.co.uk/performance-part=
s/austin-healey/engines/3000-bottom-end?page=3D3</a><o:p></o:p></p><h2 =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:6.0pt;ma=
rgin-left:0in;line-height:20.25pt'>Their text:- &#8220;<span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#555555;mso=
-fareast-language:EN-GB'>Heat treated castings for longer life and =
removable gallery plugs to be sure it is clean are advantages of both =
types of oil pumps we offer. We recommend the high capacity for all road =
engines using a standard type crank up to 6000 rpm and the standard pump =
for race engines, steel cranks or anything over 6000 rpm. Both are =
precision machined and assembled in-house to control the highest =
quality.<br></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#555555;ms=
o-fareast-language:EN-GB'>- ENG672 is the standard type.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#555555;mso=
-fareast-language:EN-GB'><br>- ENG672M is the high capacity =
pump.&#8221;</span><o:p></o:p></h2><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#555555;mso=
-fareast-language:EN-GB'>What are &#8220;removable gallery =
plugs&#8221;?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#555555;mso=
-fareast-language:EN-GB'>Is it just me or is the above a bit =
counter-intuitive? &#8220;High capacity&#8221; for road cars and =
&#8220;standard&#8221; for race engines? Surely the highest capacity is =
needed where the engine is working hardest ie racing? =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#555555;mso=
-fareast-language:EN-GB'>And don&#8217;t I remember that, with the =
standard BMC pumps, the older type is reckoned to be better than the =
newer type? Is this something similar to Denis Welch&#8217;s two =
pumps?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#555555;mso=
-fareast-language:EN-GB'>Anyhow, if anyone&#8217;s got =
one&#8230;..what&#8217;s it like? Did the oil pressure improve at =
all?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#555555;mso=
-fareast-language:EN-GB'>I&#8217;m guessing that most people will have =
fitted one as part of a big rebuild thus they won&#8217;t have =
straightforward &#8220;before and after&#8221; comparisons. I&#8217;m =
thinking of fitting mine to my engine as part of a small winter project =
and hope I can squeeze a few more psi into the system. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Simon<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><pre>____________________=
___________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Support Team.Net <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html<=
/a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Suggested annual donation&nbsp; =
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[email-masked]

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---

From: Michael Salter <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2018 11:54:44 -0400

--===============1931952689221213492==

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I have a book "Repco Engine Service Manual" produced by Repco of
Repco-Brabham fame that I use as my bible for engine building.
On the subject of oil pressure it states that delivery pressure itself is
not that important and is really just an indicator that oil is being
delivered to the bearings.
Of much greater importance is "thin film pressure" which is generated by
the engine forces on a bearing which can be as high as 8000 p.s.i. at high
RPM and is determined by the oil type and temperature, and the engine
design.
Based upon this I believe that concentrating on having good oil pressure at
idle is wasted effort. What is important is that the engine has some
pressure at idle but good pressure in the normal operating range.
A pump which puts out a huge volume uses excessive horsepower and can
result in accelerated wear of the pump drive.

M

On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 11:30 AM Bob Spidell <[email-masked]> wrote:

> I'll offer what I know/have heard*.  I have the 'high capacity' type in m=
y
> Older 6-cyl cars had a rotor type pump.  They (the rotor type) are suppos=
ed
> to be more efficient--i.e. they pump more oil--at lower RPMs.  At some
> point it was discovered, probably from service bay repairs, that this typ=
e
> of pump put an excessive shear load on the bevel gears on the cam that
> drive the pump, causing them to wear out.  Later cars started getting the
> gear type pump, which is less efficient at lower RPMs but puts less of a
> load on the cam, and is probably less expensive to manufacture as well
> (esp. if the gears are the sintered iron variety).  I think the bevel gea=
rs
> on the cams were re-engineered, IIRC they got an additional tooth to spre=
ad
> the load.
> the 'high capacity' I believe refers to volume rather than pressure (whic=
h,
> of course, is mostly dictated by engine speed).   The 'standard type' pum=
p
> pump flow is proportional to RPM, and at 6K RPM or more you'll get plenty
> of oil with less load from the gear type.
>
> likely need a new drive shaft and, surprisingly, DWR sells it cheaper tha=
n
> https://www.bighealey.co.uk/performance-parts/austin-healey/engines/3000-=
bottom-end?page=3D3
> Their text:- =E2=80=9CHeat treated castings for longer life and removable=
 gallery
> offer. We recommend the high capacity for all road engines using a standa=
rd
> cranks or anything over 6000 rpm. Both are precision machined and assembl=
ed
> - ENG672M is the high capacity pump.=E2=80=9D
>
> What are =E2=80=9Cremovable gallery plugs=E2=80=9D?
>
> Is it just me or is the above a bit counter-intuitive? =E2=80=9CHigh capa=
city=E2=80=9D for
> road cars and =E2=80=9Cstandard=E2=80=9D for race engines? Surely the hig=
hest capacity is
> And don=E2=80=99t I remember that, with the standard BMC pumps, the older=
 type is
> Denis Welch=E2=80=99s two pumps?
>
> Anyhow, if anyone=E2=80=99s got one=E2=80=A6..what=E2=80=99s it like? Did=
 the oil pressure improve
> at all?
>
> I=E2=80=99m guessing that most people will have fitted one as part of a b=
ig
> rebuild thus they won=E2=80=99t have straightforward =E2=80=9Cbefore and =
after=E2=80=9D
> comparisons. I=E2=80=99m thinking of fitting mine to my engine as part of=
 a small
> winter project and hope I can squeeze a few more psi into the system.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Simon
>
>
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/arch=
ive
> [email-masked]://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/bspidel=
[email-masked]
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]
>
>

--00000000000000e2fd057974353a
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sa=
ns ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">I have a book &quot;Repco Engine Service =
Manual&quot; produced by Repco of Repco-Brabham fame that I use as my bible=
 for engine building. <br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-=
family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">On the subject of oil pres=
sure it states that delivery pressure itself is not that important and is r=
eally just an indicator that oil is being delivered to the bearings. <br></=
div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-se=
rif;font-size:small">Of much greater importance is &quot;thin film pressure=
&quot; which is generated by the engine forces on a bearing which can be as=
 high as 8000 p.s.i. at high RPM and is determined by the oil type and temp=
erature, and the engine design.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"=
font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">Based upon this I bel=
ieve that concentrating on having good oil pressure at idle is wasted effor=
t. What is important is that the engine has some pressure at idle but good =
pressure in the normal operating range. <br></div><div class=3D"gmail_defau=
lt" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">A pump w=
hich puts out a huge volume uses excessive horsepower and can result in acc=
elerated wear of the pump drive.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D=
"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:=
small">M<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic s=
ans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_=
quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 11:30 AM Bob Spidell &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<b=
r></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border=
-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
 =20
   =20
 =20
  <div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">
    <p>I&#39;ll offer what I know/have heard*.=C2=A0 I have the &#39;high c=
apacity&#39;
      type in my BJ8, which is what the DWR techs/sales people
      recommended for a road car.=C2=A0 Older 6-cyl cars had a rotor type
      pump.=C2=A0 They (the rotor type) are supposed to be more
      efficient--i.e. they pump more oil--at lower RPMs.=C2=A0 At some poin=
t
      it was discovered, probably from service bay repairs, that this
      type of pump put an excessive shear load on the bevel gears on the
      cam that drive the pump, causing them to wear out.=C2=A0 Later cars
      started getting the gear type pump, which is less efficient at
      lower RPMs but puts less of a load on the cam, and is probably
      less expensive to manufacture as well (esp. if the gears are the
      sintered iron variety).=C2=A0 I think the bevel gears on the cams wer=
e
      re-engineered, IIRC they got an additional tooth to spread the
      load.<br>
    </p>
    <p>The Welch HC pump is the rotor type.=C2=A0 I did a full engine rebui=
ld
      and installed the DWR HC pump; I didn&#39;t notice any pressure chang=
e
      worth mentioning--I &#39;gained&#39; 15 PSI at idle when I had my gau=
ge
      overhauled--but the &#39;high capacity&#39; I believe refers to volum=
e
      rather than pressure (which, of course, is mostly dictated by
      engine speed).=C2=A0=C2=A0 The &#39;standard type&#39; pump is a gear=
 type, hence
      it&#39;s more appropriate for high-RPM race engines as pump flow is
      proportional to RPM, and at 6K RPM or more you&#39;ll get plenty of
      oil with less load from the gear type.</p>
    <p>I&#39;m not positive, but if you look at the photos closely, you can
      see the &#39;gallery plug&#39; on the top of the case.=C2=A0 I suppos=
e it
      allows inspection of the innards of the pump without having to
      break the case.=C2=A0 I believe it&#39;s threaded so not likely to po=
p
      out.=C2=A0 If you&#39;re getting a new pump you&#39;ll likely need a =
new drive
      shaft and, surprisingly, DWR sells it cheaper than our (US)
      vendors sell it at (I think they might import the DWR shaft).<br>
    </p>
    * apply appropriate grains of salt<br>
    <br>
    Bob<br>
    <br>
    <div class=3D"m_-555035641554905656moz-cite-prefix">On 10/30/2018 5:12 =
AM,
      <a class=3D"m_-555035641554905656moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"ma=
ilto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">simon.lachlan@ale=
xarevel.plus.com</a> wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
     =20
     =20
     =20
      <div class=3D"m_-555035641554905656WordSection1">
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<u></u><u></u></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Has anyone got the Denis Welch oil pump
          ENG672M? See:-<u></u><u></u></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://www.bighealey.co.uk/perfo=
rmance-parts/austin-healey/engines/3000-bottom-end?page=3D3" target=3D"_bla=
nk">https://www.bighealey.co.uk/performance-parts/austin-healey/engines/300=
0-bottom-end?page=3D3</a><u></u><u></u></p>
        <h2 style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0cm;l=
ine-height:20.25pt">Their
          text:- =E2=80=9C<span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;=
Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555">Heat
            treated castings for longer life and removable gallery plugs
            to be sure it is clean are advantages of both types of oil
            pumps we offer. We recommend the high capacity for all road
            engines using a standard type crank up to 6000 rpm and the
            standard pump for race engines, steel cranks or anything
            over 6000 rpm. Both are precision machined and assembled
            in-house to control the highest quality.<br>
          </span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&qu=
ot;,sans-serif;color:#555555">-
            ENG672 is the standard type.</span><span style=3D"font-size:9.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555"><br>
            - ENG672M is the high capacity pump.=E2=80=9D<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></h2>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:1=
4.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif;color:#555555">What
            are =E2=80=9Cremovable gallery plugs=E2=80=9D?<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:1=
4.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif;color:#555555">Is
            it just me or is the above a bit counter-intuitive? =E2=80=9CHi=
gh
            capacity=E2=80=9D for road cars and =E2=80=9Cstandard=E2=80=9D =
for race engines?
            Surely the highest capacity is needed where the engine is
            working hardest ie racing? <u></u><u></u></span></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:1=
4.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif;color:#555555">And
            don=E2=80=99t I remember that, with the standard BMC pumps, the
            older type is reckoned to be better than the newer type? Is
            this something similar to Denis Welch=E2=80=99s two pumps?<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:1=
4.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif;color:#555555">Anyhow,
            if anyone=E2=80=99s got one=E2=80=A6..what=E2=80=99s it like? D=
id the oil pressure
            improve at all?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:1=
4.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif;color:#555555">I=E2=80=99m
            guessing that most people will have fitted one as part of a
            big rebuild thus they won=E2=80=99t have straightforward =E2=80=
=9Cbefore and
            after=E2=80=9D comparisons. I=E2=80=99m thinking of fitting min=
e to my
            engine as part of a small winter project and hope I can
            squeeze a few more psi into the system. <u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Simon<u></u><u></u></p>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class=3D"m_-555035641554905656mimeAttachmentHeader"></field=
set>
      <br>
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From: Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2018 09:21:54 -0700

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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re: "... delivery pressure itself is not that important and is really 
just an indicator that oil is being delivered to the bearings ..."

Pressure is useful as a trend indicator.

On 10/30/2018 8:54 AM, Michael Salter wrote:
> On the subject of oil pressure it states that delivery pressure itself 
> is not that important and is really just an indicator that oil is 
> being delivered to the bearings.
> Of much greater importance is "thin film pressure" which is generated 
> by the engine forces on a bearing which can be as high as 8000 p.s.i. 
> at high RPM and is determined by the oil type and temperature, and the 
> engine design.
> Based upon this I believe that concentrating on having good oil 
> pressure at idle is wasted effort. What is important is that the 
> engine has some pressure at idle but good pressure in the normal 
> operating range.
> On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 11:30 AM Bob Spidell <[email-masked] 
>
>     I'll offer what I know/have heard*.  I have the 'high capacity'
>     re-engineered, IIRC they got an additional tooth to spread the load.
>
>     The Welch HC pump is the rotor type.  I did a full engine rebuild
>     engine speed). The 'standard type' pump is a gear type, hence it's
>     more appropriate for high-RPM race engines as pump flow is
>     I'm not positive, but if you look at the photos closely, you can
>     vendors sell it at (I think they might import the DWR shaft).
>
>>         Their text:- “Heat treated castings for longer life and
>>         removable gallery plugs to be sure it is clean are advantages
>>         of both types of oil pumps we offer. We recommend the high
>>         capacity for all road engines using a standard type crank up
>>         to 6000 rpm and the standard pump for race engines, steel
>>         cranks or anything over 6000 rpm. Both are precision machined
>>         and assembled in-house to control the highest quality.
>>     Is it just me or is the above a bit counter-intuitive? “High
>>     capacity” for road cars and “standard” for race engines? Surely
>>     the highest capacity is needed where the engine is working
>>     hardest ie racing?
>>
>>     And don’t I remember that, with the standard BMC pumps, the older
>>     type is reckoned to be better than the newer type? Is this
>>     something similar to Denis Welch’s two pumps?
>>
>>     Anyhow, if anyone’s got one…..what’s it like? Did the oil
>>     pressure improve at all?
>>
>>     I’m guessing that most people will have fitted one as part of a
>>     after” comparisons. I’m thinking of fitting mine to my engine as
>>     part of a small winter project and hope I can squeeze a few more
>>     psi into the system.
>>
>>     Thanks,
>>
>>     Simon
>>
>>
>>
>>     Support Team.Nethttp://www.team.net/donate.html
>>     Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys  http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>>     Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]
>>
>

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    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
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    <p>re: "... delivery pressure itself is not that important and is
      really just an indicator that oil is being delivered to the
      bearings ..."</p>
    <p>Pressure is useful as a trend indicator.<br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/30/2018 8:54 AM, Michael Salter
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAB3i7LK1diV=imAHBzxBj6tL06YDF9G7LOEd=[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans
          ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">I have a book "Repco Engine
          Service Manual" produced by Repco of Repco-Brabham fame that I
          use as my bible for engine building. <br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans
          ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">On the subject of oil pressure
          it states that delivery pressure itself is not that important
          and is really just an indicator that oil is being delivered to
          the bearings. <br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans
          ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">Of much greater importance is
          "thin film pressure" which is generated by the engine forces
          on a bearing which can be as high as 8000 p.s.i. at high RPM
          and is determined by the oil type and temperature, and the
          engine design.</div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans
          ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">Based upon this I believe that
          concentrating on having good oil pressure at idle is wasted
          effort. What is important is that the engine has some pressure
          at idle but good pressure in the normal operating range. <br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans
          ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">A pump which puts out a huge
          volume uses excessive horsepower and can result in accelerated
          wear of the pump drive.</div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans
          ms,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans
          ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">M<br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans
          ms,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr">On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 11:30 AM Bob Spidell &lt;<a
            href="mailto:[email-masked]" moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
          wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
          .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
          <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
            <p>I'll offer what I know/have heard*.  I have the 'high
              capacity' type in my BJ8, which is what the DWR
              techs/sales people recommended for a road car.  Older
              6-cyl cars had a rotor type pump.  They (the rotor type)
              are supposed to be more efficient--i.e. they pump more
              oil--at lower RPMs.  At some point it was discovered,
              probably from service bay repairs, that this type of pump
              put an excessive shear load on the bevel gears on the cam
              that drive the pump, causing them to wear out.  Later cars
              started getting the gear type pump, which is less
              efficient at lower RPMs but puts less of a load on the
              cam, and is probably less expensive to manufacture as well
              (esp. if the gears are the sintered iron variety).  I
              think the bevel gears on the cams were re-engineered, IIRC
              they got an additional tooth to spread the load.<br>
            </p>
            <p>The Welch HC pump is the rotor type.  I did a full engine
              rebuild and installed the DWR HC pump; I didn't notice any
              pressure change worth mentioning--I 'gained' 15 PSI at
              idle when I had my gauge overhauled--but the 'high
              capacity' I believe refers to volume rather than pressure
              (which, of course, is mostly dictated by engine speed).  
              The 'standard type' pump is a gear type, hence it's more
              appropriate for high-RPM race engines as pump flow is
              proportional to RPM, and at 6K RPM or more you'll get
              plenty of oil with less load from the gear type.</p>
            <p>I'm not positive, but if you look at the photos closely,
              you can see the 'gallery plug' on the top of the case.  I
              suppose it allows inspection of the innards of the pump
              without having to break the case.  I believe it's threaded
              so not likely to pop out.  If you're getting a new pump
              you'll likely need a new drive shaft and, surprisingly,
              DWR sells it cheaper than our (US) vendors sell it at (I
              think they might import the DWR shaft).<br>
            </p>
            * apply appropriate grains of salt<br>
            <br>
            Bob<br>
            <br>
            <div class="m_-555035641554905656moz-cite-prefix">On
              10/30/2018 5:12 AM, <a
                class="m_-555035641554905656moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>
              wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <div class="m_-555035641554905656WordSection1">
                <p class="MsoNormal">Hi,</p>
                <p class="MsoNormal">Has anyone got the Denis Welch oil
                  pump ENG672M? See:-</p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://www.bighealey.co.uk/performance-parts/austin-healey/engines/3000-bottom-end?page=3"
                    target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.bighealey.co.uk/performance-parts/austin-healey/engines/3000-bottom-end?page=3</a></p>
                <h2
style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0cm;line-height:20.25pt">Their
                  text:- “<span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555">Heat
                    treated castings for longer life and removable
                    gallery plugs to be sure it is clean are advantages
                    of both types of oil pumps we offer. We recommend
                    the high capacity for all road engines using a
                    standard type crank up to 6000 rpm and the standard
                    pump for race engines, steel cranks or anything over
                    6000 rpm. Both are precision machined and assembled
                    in-house to control the highest quality.<br>
                  </span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555">-
                    ENG672 is the standard type.</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555"><br>
                    - ENG672M is the high capacity pump.”</span></h2>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555">What
                    are “removable gallery plugs”?</span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555">Is
                    it just me or is the above a bit counter-intuitive?
                    “High capacity” for road cars and “standard” for
                    race engines? Surely the highest capacity is needed
                    where the engine is working hardest ie racing? </span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555">And
                    don’t I remember that, with the standard BMC pumps,
                    the older type is reckoned to be better than the
                    newer type? Is this something similar to Denis
                    Welch’s two pumps?</span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555">Anyhow,
                    if anyone’s got one…..what’s it like? Did the oil
                    pressure improve at all?</span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555">I’m
                    guessing that most people will have fitted one as
                    part of a big rebuild thus they won’t have
                    straightforward “before and after” comparisons. I’m
                    thinking of fitting mine to my engine as part of a
                    small winter project and hope I can squeeze a few
                    more psi into the system. </span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,</p>
                <p class="MsoNormal">Simon</p>
              </div>
              <br>
              <fieldset
                class="m_-555035641554905656mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
              <br>
              <pre>_______________________________________________

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[email-masked]

--===============5033119436319338163==--

---

From: Michael Salter <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2018 12:49:54 -0400

--===============1534040065862804251==

--0000000000004a8101057974fa21
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Yes, absolutely true Bob.
Decreasing oil pressure can certainly be an indicator of increasing
clearances.

M

On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 12:22 PM Bob Spidell <[email-masked]> wrote:

> re: "... delivery pressure itself is not that important and is really jus=
t
> an indicator that oil is being delivered to the bearings ..."
>
> the engine forces on a bearing which can be as high as 8000 p.s.i. at hig=
h
> Based upon this I believe that concentrating on having good oil pressure
> at idle is wasted effort. What is important is that the engine has some
> On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 11:30 AM Bob Spidell <[email-masked]> wrote=
:
>> supposed to be more efficient--i.e. they pump more oil--at lower RPMs.  =
At
>> some point it was discovered, probably from service bay repairs, that th=
is
>> type of pump put an excessive shear load on the bevel gears on the cam t=
hat
>> drive the pump, causing them to wear out.  Later cars started getting th=
e
>> (esp. if the gears are the sintered iron variety).  I think the bevel ge=
ars
>> on the cams were re-engineered, IIRC they got an additional tooth to spr=
ead
>> mentioning--I 'gained' 15 PSI at idle when I had my gauge overhauled--bu=
t
>> the 'high capacity' I believe refers to volume rather than pressure (whi=
ch,
>> of course, is mostly dictated by engine speed).   The 'standard type' pu=
mp
>> pump flow is proportional to RPM, and at 6K RPM or more you'll get plent=
y
>> 'gallery plug' on the top of the case.  I suppose it allows inspection o=
f
>> the innards of the pump without having to break the case.  I believe it'=
s
>> likely need a new drive shaft and, surprisingly, DWR sells it cheaper th=
an
>> https://www.bighealey.co.uk/performance-parts/austin-healey/engines/3000=
-bottom-end?page=3D3
>> Their text:- =E2=80=9CHeat treated castings for longer life and removabl=
e
>> gallery plugs to be sure it is clean are advantages of both types of oil
>> pumps we offer. We recommend the high capacity for all road engines usin=
g a
>> standard type crank up to 6000 rpm and the standard pump for race engine=
s,
>> steel cranks or anything over 6000 rpm. Both are precision machined and
>> assembled in-house to control the highest quality.
>> Is it just me or is the above a bit counter-intuitive? =E2=80=9CHigh cap=
acity=E2=80=9D
>> for road cars and =E2=80=9Cstandard=E2=80=9D for race engines? Surely th=
e highest capacity
>> is needed where the engine is working hardest ie racing?
>>
>> And don=E2=80=99t I remember that, with the standard BMC pumps, the olde=
r type is
>> Anyhow, if anyone=E2=80=99s got one=E2=80=A6..what=E2=80=99s it like? Di=
d the oil pressure
>> improve at all?
>>
>> I=E2=80=99m guessing that most people will have fitted one as part of a =
big
>> rebuild thus they won=E2=80=99t have straightforward =E2=80=9Cbefore and=
 after=E2=80=9D
>> comparisons. I=E2=80=99m thinking of fitting mine to my engine as part o=
f a small
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/arc=
hive
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/bspide=
[email-masked]

--0000000000004a8101057974fa21
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sa=
ns ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">Yes, absolutely true Bob. <br></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-=
size:small">Decreasing oil pressure can certainly be an indicator of increa=
sing clearances.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:com=
ic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_defaul=
t" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">M<br></di=
v></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Tue, Oct 30, 201=
8 at 12:22 PM Bob Spidell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">bspid=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
 =20
   =20
 =20
  <div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">
    <p>re: &quot;... delivery pressure itself is not that important and is
      really just an indicator that oil is being delivered to the
      bearings ...&quot;</p>
    <p>Pressure is useful as a trend indicator.<br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <div class=3D"m_4764773932981263630moz-cite-prefix">On 10/30/2018 8:54 =
AM, Michael Salter
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
     =20
      <div dir=3D"ltr">
        <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,san=
s-serif;font-size:small">I have a book &quot;Repco Engine
          Service Manual&quot; produced by Repco of Repco-Brabham fame that=
 I
          use as my bible for engine building. <br>
        </div>
        <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,san=
s-serif;font-size:small">On the subject of oil pressure
          it states that delivery pressure itself is not that important
          and is really just an indicator that oil is being delivered to
          the bearings. <br>
        </div>
        <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,san=
s-serif;font-size:small">Of much greater importance is
          &quot;thin film pressure&quot; which is generated by the engine f=
orces
          on a bearing which can be as high as 8000 p.s.i. at high RPM
          and is determined by the oil type and temperature, and the
          engine design.</div>
        <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,san=
s-serif;font-size:small">Based upon this I believe that
          concentrating on having good oil pressure at idle is wasted
          effort. What is important is that the engine has some pressure
          at idle but good pressure in the normal operating range. <br>
        </div>
        <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,san=
s-serif;font-size:small">A pump which puts out a huge
          volume uses excessive horsepower and can result in accelerated
          wear of the pump drive.</div>
        <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,san=
s-serif;font-size:small"><br>
        </div>
        <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,san=
s-serif;font-size:small">M<br>
        </div>
        <div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,san=
s-serif;font-size:small"><br>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class=3D"gmail_quote">
        <div dir=3D"ltr">On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 11:30 AM Bob Spidell &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
et</a>&gt;
          wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border=
-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
          <div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">
            <p>I&#39;ll offer what I know/have heard*.=C2=A0 I have the &#3=
9;high
              capacity&#39; type in my BJ8, which is what the DWR
              techs/sales people recommended for a road car.=C2=A0 Older
              6-cyl cars had a rotor type pump.=C2=A0 They (the rotor type)
              are supposed to be more efficient--i.e. they pump more
              oil--at lower RPMs.=C2=A0 At some point it was discovered,
              probably from service bay repairs, that this type of pump
              put an excessive shear load on the bevel gears on the cam
              that drive the pump, causing them to wear out.=C2=A0 Later ca=
rs
              started getting the gear type pump, which is less
              efficient at lower RPMs but puts less of a load on the
              cam, and is probably less expensive to manufacture as well
              (esp. if the gears are the sintered iron variety).=C2=A0 I
              think the bevel gears on the cams were re-engineered, IIRC
              they got an additional tooth to spread the load.<br>
            </p>
            <p>The Welch HC pump is the rotor type.=C2=A0 I did a full engi=
ne
              rebuild and installed the DWR HC pump; I didn&#39;t notice an=
y
              pressure change worth mentioning--I &#39;gained&#39; 15 PSI a=
t
              idle when I had my gauge overhauled--but the &#39;high
              capacity&#39; I believe refers to volume rather than pressure
              (which, of course, is mostly dictated by engine speed).=C2=A0=
=C2=A0
              The &#39;standard type&#39; pump is a gear type, hence it&#39=
;s more
              appropriate for high-RPM race engines as pump flow is
              proportional to RPM, and at 6K RPM or more you&#39;ll get
              plenty of oil with less load from the gear type.</p>
            <p>I&#39;m not positive, but if you look at the photos closely,
              you can see the &#39;gallery plug&#39; on the top of the case=
.=C2=A0 I
              suppose it allows inspection of the innards of the pump
              without having to break the case.=C2=A0 I believe it&#39;s th=
readed
              so not likely to pop out.=C2=A0 If you&#39;re getting a new p=
ump
              you&#39;ll likely need a new drive shaft and, surprisingly,
              DWR sells it cheaper than our (US) vendors sell it at (I
              think they might import the DWR shaft).<br>
            </p>
            * apply appropriate grains of salt<br>
            <br>
            Bob<br>
            <br>
            <div class=3D"m_4764773932981263630m_-555035641554905656moz-cit=
e-prefix">On
              10/30/2018 5:12 AM, <a class=3D"m_4764773932981263630m_-55503=
5641554905656moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:simon.lachlan@alexare=
vel.plus.com" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>
              wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote type=3D"cite">
              <div class=3D"m_4764773932981263630m_-555035641554905656WordS=
ection1">
                <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,</p>
                <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Has anyone got the Denis Welch oil
                  pump ENG672M? See:-</p>
                <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://www.bighealey.co.=
uk/performance-parts/austin-healey/engines/3000-bottom-end?page=3D3" target=
=3D"_blank">https://www.bighealey.co.uk/performance-parts/austin-healey/eng=
ines/3000-bottom-end?page=3D3</a></p>
                <h2 style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-le=
ft:0cm;line-height:20.25pt">Their
                  text:- =E2=80=9C<span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-famil=
y:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555">Heat
                    treated castings for longer life and removable
                    gallery plugs to be sure it is clean are advantages
                    of both types of oil pumps we offer. We recommend
                    the high capacity for all road engines using a
                    standard type crank up to 6000 rpm and the standard
                    pump for race engines, steel cranks or anything over
                    6000 rpm. Both are precision machined and assembled
                    in-house to control the highest quality.<br>
                  </span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;=
Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555">-
                    ENG672 is the standard type.</span><span style=3D"font-=
size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555"><br>
                    - ENG672M is the high capacity pump.=E2=80=9D</span></h=
2>
                <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-=
height:14.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;=
,sans-serif;color:#555555">What
                    are =E2=80=9Cremovable gallery plugs=E2=80=9D?</span></=
p>
                <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-=
height:14.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;=
,sans-serif;color:#555555">Is
                    it just me or is the above a bit counter-intuitive?
                    =E2=80=9CHigh capacity=E2=80=9D for road cars and =E2=
=80=9Cstandard=E2=80=9D for
                    race engines? Surely the highest capacity is needed
                    where the engine is working hardest ie racing? </span><=
/p>
                <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-=
height:14.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;=
,sans-serif;color:#555555">And
                    don=E2=80=99t I remember that, with the standard BMC pu=
mps,
                    the older type is reckoned to be better than the
                    newer type? Is this something similar to Denis
                    Welch=E2=80=99s two pumps?</span></p>
                <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-=
height:14.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;=
,sans-serif;color:#555555">Anyhow,
                    if anyone=E2=80=99s got one=E2=80=A6..what=E2=80=99s it=
 like? Did the oil
                    pressure improve at all?</span></p>
                <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-=
height:14.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;=
,sans-serif;color:#555555">I=E2=80=99m
                    guessing that most people will have fitted one as
                    part of a big rebuild thus they won=E2=80=99t have
                    straightforward =E2=80=9Cbefore and after=E2=80=9D comp=
arisons. I=E2=80=99m
                    thinking of fitting mine to my engine as part of a
                    small winter project and hope I can squeeze a few
                    more psi into the system. </span></p>
                <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,</p>
                <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Simon</p>
              </div>
              <br>
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[email-masked]

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---

From: "E.A. Driver" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2018 14:01:45 -0600

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Good afternoon
As with Bruce and Bob  at rebuild of a BJ8 engine I added DWR hcpump in 
2000,  although I sold the car in 2016, I assume the current owner  will 
verify that  oil pressure during driving still ranges from 55 to 60 psi 
and at idle 20-25psi.  As Michael has stated if the correct bearing 
clearances were met during rebuild there should be no issues.
Cheers
Ed

E.A. Driver
Web master Saskatchewan British Car Club
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
Canada

On 30/10/2018 9:52 AM, Bruce Steele wrote:
>
> I echo Bob’s comments.  I’ve had the DWR high capacity pump for years.
>
> Bruce Steele
>
> Brea, CA
>
> 1960 BN7
>
> *From:*Healeys [mailto:[email-masked]] *On Behalf Of 
> *Bob Spidell
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 30, 2018 7:17 AM
> *To:* [email-masked]
> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] oil pump
>
> I'll offer what I know/have heard*.  I have the 'high capacity' type 
> in my BJ8, which is what the DWR techs/sales people recommended for a 
> road car.  Older 6-cyl cars had a rotor type pump.  They (the rotor 
> type) are supposed to be more efficient--i.e. they pump more oil--at 
> lower RPMs.  At some point it was discovered, probably from service 
> bay repairs, that this type of pump put an excessive shear load on the 
> bevel gears on the cam that drive the pump, causing them to wear out.  
> Later cars started getting the gear type pump, which is less efficient 
> at lower RPMs but puts less of a load on the cam, and is probably less 
> expensive to manufacture as well (esp. if the gears are the sintered 
> iron variety).  I think the bevel gears on the cams were 
> than pressure (which, of course, is mostly dictated by engine 
> speed).   The 'standard type' pump is a gear type, hence it's more 
> appropriate for high-RPM race engines as pump flow is proportional to 
> RPM, and at 6K RPM or more you'll get plenty of oil with less load 
> from the gear type.
>
> I'm not positive, but if you look at the photos closely, you can see 
> the 'gallery plug' on the top of the case.  I suppose it allows 
> inspection of the innards of the pump without having to break the 
> case.  I believe it's threaded so not likely to pop out.  If you're 
> getting a new pump you'll likely need a new drive shaft and, 
> surprisingly, DWR sells it cheaper than our (US) vendors sell it at (I 
> think they might import the DWR shaft).
>
>     the highest capacity is needed where the engine is working hardest
>     ie racing?
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]
>

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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Good afternoon<br>
      As with Bruce and Bob  at rebuild of a BJ8 engine I added DWR
      hcpump in 2000,  although I sold the car in 2016, I assume the
      current owner  will verify that  oil pressure during driving still
      ranges from 55 to 60 psi and at idle 20-25psi.  As Michael has
      stated if the correct bearing clearances were met during rebuild
      there should be no issues.<br>
      Cheers<br>
      Ed<br>
      <br>
      E.A. Driver<br>
      Web master Saskatchewan British Car Club<br>
      Saskatoon, Saskatchewan<br>
      Canada<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      On 30/10/2018 9:52 AM, Bruce Steele wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:[email-masked]">
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      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
            MS&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext">I echo Bob’s
            comments.  I’ve had the DWR high capacity pump for years.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
            MS&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
              MS&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Bruce Steele<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
              MS&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Brea, CA<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
              MS&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">1960 BN7<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
            MS&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
            1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
                style="color:windowtext"> Healeys
                [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:[email-masked]">mailto:[email-masked]</a>] <b>On Behalf Of
                </b>Bob Spidell<br>
                <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 30, 2018 7:17 AM<br>
                <b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
                <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] oil pump<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p>I'll offer what I know/have heard*.  I have the 'high
          capacity' type in my BJ8, which is what the DWR techs/sales
          people recommended for a road car.  Older 6-cyl cars had a
          rotor type pump.  They (the rotor type) are supposed to be
          more efficient--i.e. they pump more oil--at lower RPMs.  At
          some point it was discovered, probably from service bay
          repairs, that this type of pump put an excessive shear load on
          the bevel gears on the cam that drive the pump, causing them
          to wear out.  Later cars started getting the gear type pump,
          which is less efficient at lower RPMs but puts less of a load
          on the cam, and is probably less expensive to manufacture as
          well (esp. if the gears are the sintered iron variety).  I
          think the bevel gears on the cams were re-engineered, IIRC
          they got an additional tooth to spread the load.<span
            style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p>The Welch HC pump is the rotor type.  I did a full engine
          rebuild and installed the DWR HC pump; I didn't notice any
          pressure change worth mentioning--I 'gained' 15 PSI at idle
          when I had my gauge overhauled--but the 'high capacity' I
          believe refers to volume rather than pressure (which, of
          course, is mostly dictated by engine speed).   The 'standard
          type' pump is a gear type, hence it's more appropriate for
          high-RPM race engines as pump flow is proportional to RPM, and
          at 6K RPM or more you'll get plenty of oil with less load from
          the gear type.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p>I'm not positive, but if you look at the photos closely, you
          can see the 'gallery plug' on the top of the case.  I suppose
          it allows inspection of the innards of the pump without having
          to break the case.  I believe it's threaded so not likely to
          pop out.  If you're getting a new pump you'll likely need a
          new drive shaft and, surprisingly, DWR sells it cheaper than
          our (US) vendors sell it at (I think they might import the DWR
          shaft).<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">* apply
          appropriate grains of salt<br>
          <br>
          Bob<o:p></o:p></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">On 10/30/2018 5:12 AM, <a
              href="mailto:[email-masked]"
              moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>
            wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
        </div>
        <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
          <p class="MsoNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Has anyone got the Denis Welch oil pump
            ENG672M? See:-<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://www.bighealey.co.uk/performance-parts/austin-healey/engines/3000-bottom-end?page=3"
              moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.bighealey.co.uk/performance-parts/austin-healey/engines/3000-bottom-end?page=3</a><o:p></o:p></p>
          <h2
style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0in;line-height:20.25pt">Their
            text:- “<span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Heat
              treated castings for longer life and removable gallery
              plugs to be sure it is clean are advantages of both types
              of oil pumps we offer. We recommend the high capacity for
              all road engines using a standard type crank up to 6000
              rpm and the standard pump for race engines, steel cranks
              or anything over 6000 rpm. Both are precision machined and
              assembled in-house to control the highest quality.<br>
            </span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">-
              ENG672 is the standard type.</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><br>
              - ENG672M is the high capacity pump.”</span><o:p></o:p></h2>
          <p class="MsoNormal"
            style="margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">What
              are “removable gallery plugs”?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"
            style="margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Is
              it just me or is the above a bit counter-intuitive? “High
              capacity” for road cars and “standard” for race engines?
              Surely the highest capacity is needed where the engine is
              working hardest ie racing? </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"
            style="margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">And
              don’t I remember that, with the standard BMC pumps, the
              older type is reckoned to be better than the newer type?
              Is this something similar to Denis Welch’s two pumps?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"
            style="margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Anyhow,
              if anyone’s got one…..what’s it like? Did the oil pressure
              improve at all?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"
            style="margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">I’m
              guessing that most people will have fitted one as part of
              a big rebuild thus they won’t have straightforward “before
              and after” comparisons. I’m thinking of fitting mine to my
              engine as part of a small winter project and hope I can
              squeeze a few more psi into the system. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Simon<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
              Roman&quot;,serif"><br>
              <br>
              <br>
              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________

</pre>
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[email-masked]

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---

From: "Larry Varley" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2018 07:56:08 +1100

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As a matter of interest, from memory the Repco engine service manual =
says 10PSI oil pressure per 1000 RPM. As Mike says you need very little =
pressure at idle, there are plenty of engines that get as low as 10 PSI =
at idle. Also the 6 cylinder rotary oil pump is actually a version of =
the early Austin A70 oil pump. The outer ring is interchangeable. My =
Austin A70 Ute has one of these pumps and has hot oil pressure of 40 PSI =
at Idle and 70 PSI at 3000 RPM. Naturally pressure will change depending =
on the speed that the engine runs the pump at. Later A70=E2=80=99s and =
Healey 100=E2=80=99s seem to have all run the gear pump. It could simply =
be that it was cheaper to make, but it could also be that the rotary =
pump may consume more power, but as both pumps only deliver pressure up =
to the point the relief valves opens I doubt it. It is interesting that =
Austin decided that the same pump capacity was suitable for both the 4 =
and 6 cylinder engines.

Regards

Larry Varley

=20

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<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>As a matter of interest, from memory the Repco engine service manual =
says 10PSI oil pressure per 1000 RPM. As Mike says you need very little =
pressure at idle, there are plenty of engines that get as low as 10 PSI =
at idle. Also the 6 cylinder rotary oil pump is actually a version of =
the early Austin A70 oil pump. The outer ring is interchangeable. My =
Austin A70 Ute has one of these pumps and has hot oil pressure of 40 PSI =
at Idle and 70 PSI at 3000 RPM. Naturally pressure will change depending =
on the speed that the engine runs the pump at. Later A70=E2=80=99s and =
Healey 100=E2=80=99s seem to have all run the gear pump. It could simply =
be that it was cheaper to make, but it could also be that the rotary =
pump may consume more power, but as both pumps only deliver pressure up =
to the point the relief valves opens I doubt it. It is interesting that =
Austin decided that the same pump capacity was suitable for both the 4 =
and 6 cylinder engines.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Larry Varley<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></body></html>
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[email-masked]

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---

From: Chris Dimmock <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2018 10:16:43 +1100

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I've had this DWR pump in my engine now for 20 years.=20
No issues.=20
I echo Bob's comments.=20
Best
Chris

> On 30 Oct 2018, at 11:12 pm, <[email-masked]> <simon.la=
[email-masked]> wrote:
> https://www.bighealey.co.uk/performance-parts/austin-healey/engines/3000-b=
ottom-end?page=3D3
> Their text:- =E2=80=9CHeat treated castings for longer life and removable g=
allery plugs to be sure it is clean are advantages of both types of oil pump=
s we offer. We recommend the high capacity for all road engines using a stan=
dard type crank up to 6000 rpm and the standard pump for race engines, steel=
 cranks or anything over 6000 rpm. Both are precision machined and assembled=
 in-house to control the highest quality.
> Is it just me or is the above a bit counter-intuitive? =E2=80=9CHigh capac=
ity=E2=80=9D for road cars and =E2=80=9Cstandard=E2=80=9D for race engines? S=
urely the highest capacity is needed where the engine is working hardest ie r=
acing?
>=20
> And don=E2=80=99t I remember that, with the standard BMC pumps, the older t=
ype is reckoned to be better than the newer type? Is this something similar t=
o Denis Welch=E2=80=99s two pumps?
>=20
> Anyhow, if anyone=E2=80=99s got one=E2=80=A6..what=E2=80=99s it like? Did t=
he oil pressure improve at all?
>=20
> I=E2=80=99m guessing that most people will have fitted one as part of a bi=
g rebuild thus they won=E2=80=99t have straightforward =E2=80=9Cbefore and a=
fter=E2=80=9D comparisons. I=E2=80=99m thinking of fitting mine to my engine=
 as part of a small winter project and hope I can squeeze a few more psi int=
o the system.
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/archi=
ve
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/austin.h=
[email-masked]

--Apple-Mail-E184DBBD-D91F-4096-940C-A1C369312EDA
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>I've had this DWR pump in my engine no=
w for 20 years.&nbsp;</div><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">No issues.&nbsp;</=
div><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">I echo Bob's comments.&nbsp;</div><div id=
=3D"AppleMailSignature">Best</div><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">Chris<br><b=
r></div><div><br>On 30 Oct 2018, at 11:12 pm, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:simon.la=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
us.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><meta http=
-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"><meta name=
=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
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<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div class=3D"WordSection1"><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Has anyone got the Denis W=
elch oil pump ENG672M? See:-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D=
"https://www.bighealey.co.uk/performance-parts/austin-healey/engines/3000-bo=
ttom-end?page=3D3">https://www.bighealey.co.uk/performance-parts/austin-heal=
ey/engines/3000-bottom-end?page=3D3</a><o:p></o:p></p><h2 style=3D"mso-margi=
n-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0cm;line-he=
ight:20.25pt">Their text:- =E2=80=9C<span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">He=
at treated castings for longer life and removable gallery plugs to be sure i=
t is clean are advantages of both types of oil pumps we offer. We recommend t=
he high capacity for all road engines using a standard type crank up to 6000=
 rpm and the standard pump for race engines, steel cranks or anything over 6=
000 rpm. Both are precision machined and assembled in-house to control the h=
ighest quality.<br></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;=
Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">- ENG672 is=
 the standard type.</span><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;A=
rial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><br>- ENG672=
M is the high capacity pump.=E2=80=9D<o:p></o:p></span></h2><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555;mso-fare=
ast-language:EN-GB">What are =E2=80=9Cremovable gallery plugs=E2=80=9D?<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-=
height:14.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,=
sans-serif;color:#555555;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Is it just me or is the=
 above a bit counter-intuitive? =E2=80=9CHigh capacity=E2=80=9D for road car=
s and =E2=80=9Cstandard=E2=80=9D for race engines? Surely the highest capaci=
ty is needed where the engine is working hardest ie racing? <o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:14.4=
pt"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;=
color:#555555;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">And don=E2=80=99t I remember that,=
 with the standard BMC pumps, the older type is reckoned to be better than t=
he newer type? Is this something similar to Denis Welch=E2=80=99s two pumps?=
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.75pt;=
line-height:14.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&q=
uot;,sans-serif;color:#555555;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Anyhow, if anyone=E2=
=80=99s got one=E2=80=A6..what=E2=80=99s it like? Did the oil pressure impro=
ve at all?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-botto=
m:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">I=E2=80=99=
m guessing that most people will have fitted one as part of a big rebuild th=
us they won=E2=80=99t have straightforward =E2=80=9Cbefore and after=E2=80=9D=
 comparisons. I=E2=80=99m thinking of fitting mine to my engine as part of a=
 small winter project and hope I can squeeze a few more psi into the system.=
 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal">Simon<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type=
=3D"cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><=
br><span>Support <a href=3D"http://Team.Net">Team.Net</a> <a href=3D"http://=
www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a></span><br><spa=
n>Suggested annual donation &nbsp;$12.75</span><br><span></span><br><span>Ar=
chive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys">http://www.team.net=
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x.team.net/archive</a></span><br><span></span><br><span><a href=3D"mailto:He=
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n/listinfo/healeys</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>Unsubscribe/Manage: <=
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a></span><br><span></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>=

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[email-masked]

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---

From: Michael MacLean <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2018 23:24:38 +0000 (UTC)

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Well then please explain to me how a Bugeye I owned in 1971 would drop from=
 60 PSI at speed to 40 PSI over a period of time.=C2=A0 When I checked the =
oil it was a quart low.=C2=A0 Adding a quart, the "at speed" pressure retur=
ned to 60 PSI.=C2=A0 I mean it was great to have a low oil indicator like t=
hat, but I never understood how it worked.
Mike MacLean=20

    On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 2:22 PM, Michael Salter <michael.salter@gm=
ail.com> wrote:
=20

 Yes, absolutely true Bob.=20
Decreasing oil pressure can certainly be an indicator of increasing clearan=
ces.
M

  re: "... delivery pressure itself is not that important and is really jus=
t an indicator that oil is being delivered to the bearings ..." Pressure is=
 useful as a trend indicator.
 =20
 On 10/30/2018 8:54 AM, Michael Salter wrote:
 =20
  I have a book "Repco Engine Service Manual" produced by Repco of Repco-Br=
abham fame that I use as my bible for engine building.=20
  On the subject of oil pressure it states that delivery pressure itself is=
 not that important and is really just an indicator that oil is being deliv=
ered to  the bearings.=20
  Of much greater importance is "thin film pressure" which is generated by =
the engine forces on a bearing which can be as high as 8000 p.s.i. at high =
RPM  and is determined by the oil type and temperature, and the engine desi=
gn. Based upon this I believe that concentrating on having good oil pressur=
e at idle is wasted effort. What is important is that the engine has some p=
ressure  at idle but good pressure in the normal operating range.=20
  A pump which puts out a huge volume uses excessive horsepower and can res=
ult in accelerated wear of the pump drive.=20
  M
 =20
  =20
  On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 11:30 AM Bob Spidell <[email-masked]> wrote=
:
 =20
  I'll offer what I know/have heard*.=C2=A0 I have the 'high capacity' type=
 in my BJ8, which is what the DWR techs/sales people recommended for a road=
 car.=C2=A0 Older 6-cyl cars had a rotor type pump.=C2=A0 They (the rotor t=
ype) are supposed to be more efficient--i.e. they pump more oil--at lower R=
PMs.=C2=A0 At some point it was discovered, probably from service bay repai=
rs, that this type of pump put an excessive shear load on the bevel gears o=
n the cam  that drive the pump, causing them to wear out.=C2=A0 Later cars =
started getting the gear type pump, which is less efficient at lower RPMs b=
ut puts less of a load on the cam, and is probably less expensive to manufa=
cture as well (esp. if the gears are the sintered iron variety).=C2=A0 I th=
ink the bevel gears on the cams were re-engineered, IIRC they got an additi=
onal tooth to spread the load.
  The Welch HC pump is the rotor type.=C2=A0 I did a full engine rebuild an=
d installed the DWR HC pump; I didn't notice any pressure change worth ment=
ioning--I 'gained' 15 PSI at idle when I had my gauge overhauled--but the '=
high capacity' I believe refers to volume rather than pressure (which, of c=
ourse, is mostly dictated by engine speed).=C2=A0=C2=A0 The 'standard type'=
 pump is a gear type, hence it's more appropriate for high-RPM race engines=
 as pump flow is proportional to RPM, and at 6K RPM or more you'll get plen=
ty of oil with less load from the gear type. I'm not positive, but if you l=
ook at the photos closely, you can see the 'gallery plug' on the top of the=
 case.=C2=A0 I suppose it allows inspection of the innards of the pump with=
out having to break the case.=C2=A0 I believe it's threaded so not likely t=
o pop out.=C2=A0 If you're getting a new pump you'll likely need a new driv=
e shaft and, surprisingly, DWR sells it cheaper than our (US) vendors sell =
it at (I  think they might import the DWR shaft).
  * apply appropriate grains of salt
=20
 Bob
=20
 On 10/30/2018 5:12 AM, [email-masked] wrote:
 =20
  Hi, Has anyone got the Denis Welch oil pump ENG672M? See:- https://www.bi=
ghealey.co.uk/performance-parts/austin-healey/engines/3000-bottom-end?page=
=3D3=20
Their text:- =E2=80=9CHeat treated castings for longer life and removable g=
allery plugs to be sure it is clean are advantages of both types of oil pum=
ps we offer. We recommend the high capacity for all road engines using a st=
andard type crank up to 6000 rpm and the standard  pump for race engines, s=
teel cranks or anything over 6000 rpm. Both are precision machined and asse=
mbled in-house to control the highest quality.
 - ENG672 is the standard type.
 - ENG672M is the high capacity pump.=E2=80=9D
 What are =E2=80=9Cremovable gallery plugs=E2=80=9D? Is it just me or is th=
e above a bit counter-intuitive? =E2=80=9CHigh capacity=E2=80=9D for road c=
ars and =E2=80=9Cstandard=E2=80=9D for race engines? Surely the highest cap=
acity is needed where the engine is working hardest ie racing?  And don=E2=
=80=99t I remember that, with the standard BMC pumps, the older type is rec=
koned to be better than the newer type? Is this something similar to Denis =
Welch=E2=80=99s two pumps? Anyhow, if anyone=E2=80=99s got one=E2=80=A6..wh=
at=E2=80=99s it like? Did the oil pressure improve at all? I=E2=80=99m gues=
sing that most people will have fitted one as part of a big rebuild thus th=
ey won=E2=80=99t have straightforward =E2=80=9Cbefore and after=E2=80=9D co=
mparisons. I=E2=80=99m thinking of fitting mine to my engine as part of a s=
mall winter project and hope I can squeeze a few  more psi into the system.=
  Thanks, Simon =20
 =20
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------=_Part_477834_959000639.1540941878394
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<html><head></head><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; f=
ont-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:16px"><div id=
=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1540941154761_17385" dir=3D"ltr"><span id=3D"yui_3_16=
_0_ym19_1_1540941154761_17384">Well then please explain to me how a Bugeye =
I owned in 1971 would drop from 60 PSI at speed to 40 PSI over a period of =
time.&nbsp; When I checked the oil it was a quart low.&nbsp; Adding a quart=
, the "at speed" pressure returned to 60 PSI.&nbsp; I mean it was great to =
have a low oil indicator like that, but I never understood how it worked.<b=
r></span></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1540941154761=
_17384">Mike MacLean</span></div> <div class=3D"qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></di=
v><div class=3D"yahoo_quoted" style=3D"display: block;"> <div style=3D"font=
-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div s=
tyle=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucid=
a Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"><font size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial"> On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 2:22 PM, Michael Salter &lt;mi=
[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br></font></div>  <br><br> <div class=3D"=
y_msg_container"><div id=3D"yiv4771867940"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=
=3D"yiv4771867940gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms, sans-se=
rif;font-size:small;">Yes, absolutely true Bob. <br clear=3D"none"></div><d=
iv class=3D"yiv4771867940gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,=
 sans-serif;font-size:small;">Decreasing oil pressure can certainly be an i=
ndicator of increasing clearances.</div><div class=3D"yiv4771867940gmail_de=
fault" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms, sans-serif;font-size:small;"><br=
 clear=3D"none"></div><div class=3D"yiv4771867940gmail_default" style=3D"fo=
nt-family:comic sans ms, sans-serif;font-size:small;">M<br clear=3D"none"><=
/div></div><br clear=3D"none"><div class=3D"yiv4771867940yqt5563999807" id=
=3D"yiv4771867940yqt15117"><div class=3D"yiv4771867940gmail_quote"><div dir=
=3D"ltr">On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 12:22 PM Bob Spidell &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollo=
w" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank"=
 href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<b=
r clear=3D"none"></div><blockquote class=3D"yiv4771867940gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
 =20
   =20
 =20
  <div>
    <div>re: "... delivery pressure itself is not that important and is
      really just an indicator that oil is being delivered to the
      bearings ..."</div>
    <div>Pressure is useful as a trend indicator.<br clear=3D"none">
    </div>
    <br clear=3D"none">
    <div class=3D"yiv4771867940m_4764773932981263630moz-cite-prefix">On 10/=
30/2018 8:54 AM, Michael Salter
      wrote:<br clear=3D"none">
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
     =20
      <div dir=3D"ltr">
        <div class=3D"yiv4771867940gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comi=
c sans ms, sans-serif;font-size:small;">I have a book "Repco Engine
          Service Manual" produced by Repco of Repco-Brabham fame that I
          use as my bible for engine building. <br clear=3D"none">
        </div>
        <div class=3D"yiv4771867940gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comi=
c sans ms, sans-serif;font-size:small;">On the subject of oil pressure
          it states that delivery pressure itself is not that important
          and is really just an indicator that oil is being delivered to
          the bearings. <br clear=3D"none">
        </div>
        <div class=3D"yiv4771867940gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comi=
c sans ms, sans-serif;font-size:small;">Of much greater importance is
          "thin film pressure" which is generated by the engine forces
          on a bearing which can be as high as 8000 p.s.i. at high RPM
          and is determined by the oil type and temperature, and the
          engine design.</div>
        <div class=3D"yiv4771867940gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comi=
c sans ms, sans-serif;font-size:small;">Based upon this I believe that
          concentrating on having good oil pressure at idle is wasted
          effort. What is important is that the engine has some pressure
          at idle but good pressure in the normal operating range. <br clea=
r=3D"none">
        </div>
        <div class=3D"yiv4771867940gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comi=
c sans ms, sans-serif;font-size:small;">A pump which puts out a huge
          volume uses excessive horsepower and can result in accelerated
          wear of the pump drive.</div>
        <div class=3D"yiv4771867940gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comi=
c sans ms, sans-serif;font-size:small;"><br clear=3D"none">
        </div>
        <div class=3D"yiv4771867940gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comi=
c sans ms, sans-serif;font-size:small;">M<br clear=3D"none">
        </div>
        <div class=3D"yiv4771867940gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comi=
c sans ms, sans-serif;font-size:small;"><br clear=3D"none">
        </div>
      </div>
      <br clear=3D"none">
      <div class=3D"yiv4771867940gmail_quote">
        <div dir=3D"ltr">On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 11:30 AM Bob Spidell &lt;<=
a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" t=
arget=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]<=
/a>&gt;
          wrote:<br clear=3D"none">
        </div>
        <blockquote class=3D"yiv4771867940gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 =
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
          <div>
            <div>I'll offer what I know/have heard*.&nbsp; I have the 'high
              capacity' type in my BJ8, which is what the DWR
              techs/sales people recommended for a road car.&nbsp; Older
              6-cyl cars had a rotor type pump.&nbsp; They (the rotor type)
              are supposed to be more efficient--i.e. they pump more
              oil--at lower RPMs.&nbsp; At some point it was discovered,
              probably from service bay repairs, that this type of pump
              put an excessive shear load on the bevel gears on the cam
              that drive the pump, causing them to wear out.&nbsp; Later ca=
rs
              started getting the gear type pump, which is less
              efficient at lower RPMs but puts less of a load on the
              cam, and is probably less expensive to manufacture as well
              (esp. if the gears are the sintered iron variety).&nbsp; I
              think the bevel gears on the cams were re-engineered, IIRC
              they got an additional tooth to spread the load.<br clear=3D"=
none">
            </div>
            <div>The Welch HC pump is the rotor type.&nbsp; I did a full en=
gine
              rebuild and installed the DWR HC pump; I didn't notice any
              pressure change worth mentioning--I 'gained' 15 PSI at
              idle when I had my gauge overhauled--but the 'high
              capacity' I believe refers to volume rather than pressure
              (which, of course, is mostly dictated by engine speed).&nbsp;=
&nbsp;
              The 'standard type' pump is a gear type, hence it's more
              appropriate for high-RPM race engines as pump flow is
              proportional to RPM, and at 6K RPM or more you'll get
              plenty of oil with less load from the gear type.</div>
            <div>I'm not positive, but if you look at the photos closely,
              you can see the 'gallery plug' on the top of the case.&nbsp; =
I
              suppose it allows inspection of the innards of the pump
              without having to break the case.&nbsp; I believe it's thread=
ed
              so not likely to pop out.&nbsp; If you're getting a new pump
              you'll likely need a new drive shaft and, surprisingly,
              DWR sells it cheaper than our (US) vendors sell it at (I
              think they might import the DWR shaft).<br clear=3D"none">
            </div>
            * apply appropriate grains of salt<br clear=3D"none">
            <br clear=3D"none">
            Bob<br clear=3D"none">
            <br clear=3D"none">
            <div class=3D"yiv4771867940m_4764773932981263630m_-555035641554=
905656moz-cite-prefix">On
              10/30/2018 5:12 AM, <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" class=
=3D"yiv4771867940m_4764773932981263630m_-555035641554905656moz-txt-link-abb=
reviated" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_b=
lank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">simon.lachlan@alexa=
revel.plus.com</a>
              wrote:<br clear=3D"none">
            </div>
            <blockquote type=3D"cite">
              <div class=3D"yiv4771867940m_4764773932981263630m_-5550356415=
54905656WordSection1">
                <div class=3D"yiv4771867940MsoNormal">Hi,</div>
                <div class=3D"yiv4771867940MsoNormal">Has anyone got the De=
nis Welch oil
                  pump ENG672M? See:-</div>
                <div class=3D"yiv4771867940MsoNormal"><a rel=3D"nofollow" s=
hape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"https://www.bighealey.co.uk/perform=
ance-parts/austin-healey/engines/3000-bottom-end?page=3D3">https://www.bigh=
ealey.co.uk/performance-parts/austin-healey/engines/3000-bottom-end?page=3D=
3</a></div>
                <h2 style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-le=
ft:0cm;line-height:20.25pt;">Their
                  text:- =E2=80=9C<span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;">Heat
                    treated castings for longer life and removable
                    gallery plugs to be sure it is clean are advantages
                    of both types of oil pumps we offer. We recommend
                    the high capacity for all road engines using a
                    standard type crank up to 6000 rpm and the standard
                    pump for race engines, steel cranks or anything over
                    6000 rpm. Both are precision machined and assembled
                    in-house to control the highest quality.<br clear=3D"no=
ne">
                  </span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;">-
                    ENG672 is the standard type.</span><span style=3D"font-=
size:9.0pt;"><br clear=3D"none">
                    - ENG672M is the high capacity pump.=E2=80=9D</span></h=
2>
                <div class=3D"yiv4771867940MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-botto=
m:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt;"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;">What
                    are =E2=80=9Cremovable gallery plugs=E2=80=9D?</span></=
div>
                <div class=3D"yiv4771867940MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-botto=
m:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt;"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;">Is
                    it just me or is the above a bit counter-intuitive?
                    =E2=80=9CHigh capacity=E2=80=9D for road cars and =E2=
=80=9Cstandard=E2=80=9D for
                    race engines? Surely the highest capacity is needed
                    where the engine is working hardest ie racing? </span><=
/div>
                <div class=3D"yiv4771867940MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-botto=
m:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt;"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;">And
                    don=E2=80=99t I remember that, with the standard BMC pu=
mps,
                    the older type is reckoned to be better than the
                    newer type? Is this something similar to Denis
                    Welch=E2=80=99s two pumps?</span></div>
                <div class=3D"yiv4771867940MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-botto=
m:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt;"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;">Anyhow,
                    if anyone=E2=80=99s got one=E2=80=A6..what=E2=80=99s it=
 like? Did the oil
                    pressure improve at all?</span></div>
                <div class=3D"yiv4771867940MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-botto=
m:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt;"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;">I=E2=80=99m
                    guessing that most people will have fitted one as
                    part of a big rebuild thus they won=E2=80=99t have
                    straightforward =E2=80=9Cbefore and after=E2=80=9D comp=
arisons. I=E2=80=99m
                    thinking of fitting mine to my engine as part of a
                    small winter project and hope I can squeeze a few
                    more psi into the system. </span></div>
                <div class=3D"yiv4771867940MsoNormal">Thanks,</div>
                <div class=3D"yiv4771867940MsoNormal">Simon</div>
              </div>
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[email-masked]

--===============3458554862358870170==--

---

From: Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2018 17:54:59 -0700

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Probably due to aeration (foaming) of the oil due to cavitation. When I 
was bringing my BJ8 home from my dad's after after installing a rebuilt 
engine, I cracked the pan on the concrete lip of his shop (but didn't 
realize I was leaking).  As I drove home, I saw the pressure at speed 
drop from 55psi to about 35psi and thought: "Hmmmm ... that's odd."  
Stopped on the driveway for just a couple minutes while I opened the 
garage door and when I pulled the car into the garage there was a small 
puddle on the driveway (mystery solved).   Welded the pan and added a 
couple quarts and drove it a couple hundred miles--at normal 
pressure--before replacing the pan.

The oil pressure gauge indicates both long-term trends (e.g. bearing 
wear) and short-term (oil loss).  If you had an oil temperature gauge 
you'd see the temp go up if you're losing oil, as the oil becomes less 
viscous.

On 10/30/2018 4:24 PM, Michael MacLean wrote:
> Well then please explain to me how a Bugeye I owned in 1971 would drop 
> from 60 PSI at speed to 40 PSI over a period of time.  When I checked 
> the oil it was a quart low.  Adding a quart, the "at speed" pressure 
> returned to 60 PSI.  I mean it was great to have a low oil indicator 
> like that, but I never understood how it worked.
> Mike MacLean
>
>
> On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 2:22 PM, Michael Salter 
> <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 12:22 PM Bob Spidell <[email-masked] 
>
>     re: "... delivery pressure itself is not that important and is
>     bearings ..."
>>     On the subject of oil pressure it states that delivery pressure
>>     itself is not that important and is really just an indicator that
>>     oil is being delivered to the bearings.
>>     Of much greater importance is "thin film pressure" which is
>>     generated by the engine forces on a bearing which can be as high
>>     as 8000 p.s.i. at high RPM and is determined by the oil type and
>>     temperature, and the engine design.
>>     A pump which puts out a huge volume uses excessive horsepower and
>>     can result in accelerated wear of the pump drive.
>>
>>     M
>>
>>
>>     On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 11:30 AM Bob Spidell
>>
>>         I'll offer what I know/have heard*.  I have the 'high
>>         repairs, that this type of pump put an excessive shear load
>>         on the bevel gears on the cam that drive the pump, causing
>>         them to wear out. Later cars started getting the gear type
>>         pump, which is less efficient at lower RPMs but puts less of
>>         a load on the cam, and is probably less expensive to
>>         manufacture as well (esp. if the gears are the sintered iron
>>         variety).  I think the bevel gears on the cams were
>>         The Welch HC pump is the rotor type.  I did a full engine
>>         high-RPM race engines as pump flow is proportional to RPM,
>>         and at 6K RPM or more you'll get plenty of oil with less load
>>         from the gear type.
>>         I'm not positive, but if you look at the photos closely, you
>>         it allows inspection of the innards of the pump without
>>         having to break the case.  I believe it's threaded so not
>>         likely to pop out.  If you're getting a new pump you'll
>>         likely need a new drive shaft and, surprisingly, DWR sells it
>>         cheaper than our (US) vendors sell it at (I think they might
>>         import the DWR shaft).
>>>             removable gallery plugs to be sure it is clean are
>>>             advantages of both types of oil pumps we offer. We
>>>             recommend the high capacity for all road engines using a
>>>             standard type crank up to 6000 rpm and the standard pump
>>>             for race engines, steel cranks or anything over 6000
>>>             rpm. Both are precision machined and assembled in-house
>>>             to control the highest quality.
>>>         working hardest ie racing?
>>>         And don’t I remember that, with the standard BMC pumps, the
>>>         this something similar to Denis Welch’s two pumps?
>>>         I’m guessing that most people will have fitted one as part
>>>         of a big rebuild thus they won’t have straightforward
>>>         “before and after” comparisons. I’m thinking of fitting mine
>>>         to my engine as part of a small winter project and hope I
>>>         can squeeze a few more psi into the system.
>>>         Thanks,
>>>         Simon
>>>
>>>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]
>
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    <p>Probably due to aeration (foaming) of the oil due to cavitation. 
      When I was bringing my BJ8 home from my dad's after after
      installing a rebuilt engine, I cracked the pan on the concrete lip
      of his shop (but didn't realize I was leaking).  As I drove home,
      I saw the pressure at speed drop from 55psi to about 35psi and
      thought: "Hmmmm ... that's odd."  Stopped on the driveway for just
      a couple minutes while I opened the garage door and when I pulled
      the car into the garage there was a small puddle on the driveway
      (mystery solved).   Welded the pan and added a couple quarts and
      drove it a couple hundred miles--at normal pressure--before
      replacing the pan.</p>
    <p>The oil pressure gauge indicates both long-term trends (e.g.
      bearing wear) and short-term (oil loss).  If you had an oil
      temperature gauge you'd see the temp go up if you're losing oil,
      as the oil becomes less viscous.<br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/30/2018 4:24 PM, Michael MacLean
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
      <div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:times
        new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:16px">
        <div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1540941154761_17385" dir="ltr"><span
            id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1540941154761_17384">Well then please
            explain to me how a Bugeye I owned in 1971 would drop from
            60 PSI at speed to 40 PSI over a period of time.  When I
            checked the oil it was a quart low.  Adding a quart, the "at
            speed" pressure returned to 60 PSI.  I mean it was great to
            have a low oil indicator like that, but I never understood
            how it worked.<br>
          </span></div>
        <div dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1540941154761_17384">Mike
            MacLean</span></div>
        <div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br>
          <br>
        </div>
        <div class="yahoo_quoted" style="display: block;">
          <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times,
            serif; font-size: 16px;">
            <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue,
              Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size:
              16px;">
              <div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="Arial"> On Tuesday,
                  October 30, 2018 2:22 PM, Michael Salter
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a> wrote:<br>
                </font></div>
              <br>
              <br>
              <div class="y_msg_container">
                <div id="yiv4771867940">
                  <div>
                    <div dir="ltr">
                      <div class="yiv4771867940gmail_default"
                        style="font-family:comic sans ms,
                        sans-serif;font-size:small;">Yes, absolutely
                        true Bob. <br clear="none">
                      </div>
                      <div class="yiv4771867940gmail_default"
                        style="font-family:comic sans ms,
                        sans-serif;font-size:small;">Decreasing oil
                        pressure can certainly be an indicator of
                        increasing clearances.</div>
                      <div class="yiv4771867940gmail_default"
                        style="font-family:comic sans ms,
                        sans-serif;font-size:small;"><br clear="none">
                      </div>
                      <div class="yiv4771867940gmail_default"
                        style="font-family:comic sans ms,
                        sans-serif;font-size:small;">M<br clear="none">
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <br clear="none">
                    <div class="yiv4771867940yqt5563999807"
                      id="yiv4771867940yqt15117">
                      <div class="yiv4771867940gmail_quote">
                        <div dir="ltr">On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 12:22 PM
                          Bob Spidell &lt;<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
                            ymailto="mailto:[email-masked]"
                            target="_blank"
                            href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                            moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                          wrote:<br clear="none">
                        </div>
                        <blockquote class="yiv4771867940gmail_quote"
                          style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                          solid;padding-left:1ex;">
                          <div>
                            <div>re: "... delivery pressure itself is
                              not that important and is really just an
                              indicator that oil is being delivered to
                              the bearings ..."</div>
                            <div>Pressure is useful as a trend
                              indicator.<br clear="none">
                            </div>
                            <br clear="none">
                            <div
                              class="yiv4771867940m_4764773932981263630moz-cite-prefix">On
                              10/30/2018 8:54 AM, Michael Salter wrote:<br
                                clear="none">
                            </div>
                            <blockquote type="cite">
                              <div dir="ltr">
                                <div class="yiv4771867940gmail_default"
                                  style="font-family:comic sans ms,
                                  sans-serif;font-size:small;">I have a
                                  book "Repco Engine Service Manual"
                                  produced by Repco of Repco-Brabham
                                  fame that I use as my bible for engine
                                  building. <br clear="none">
                                </div>
                                <div class="yiv4771867940gmail_default"
                                  style="font-family:comic sans ms,
                                  sans-serif;font-size:small;">On the
                                  subject of oil pressure it states that
                                  delivery pressure itself is not that
                                  important and is really just an
                                  indicator that oil is being delivered
                                  to the bearings. <br clear="none">
                                </div>
                                <div class="yiv4771867940gmail_default"
                                  style="font-family:comic sans ms,
                                  sans-serif;font-size:small;">Of much
                                  greater importance is "thin film
                                  pressure" which is generated by the
                                  engine forces on a bearing which can
                                  be as high as 8000 p.s.i. at high RPM
                                  and is determined by the oil type and
                                  temperature, and the engine design.</div>
                                <div class="yiv4771867940gmail_default"
                                  style="font-family:comic sans ms,
                                  sans-serif;font-size:small;">Based
                                  upon this I believe that concentrating
                                  on having good oil pressure at idle is
                                  wasted effort. What is important is
                                  that the engine has some pressure at
                                  idle but good pressure in the normal
                                  operating range. <br clear="none">
                                </div>
                                <div class="yiv4771867940gmail_default"
                                  style="font-family:comic sans ms,
                                  sans-serif;font-size:small;">A pump
                                  which puts out a huge volume uses
                                  excessive horsepower and can result in
                                  accelerated wear of the pump drive.</div>
                                <div class="yiv4771867940gmail_default"
                                  style="font-family:comic sans ms,
                                  sans-serif;font-size:small;"><br
                                    clear="none">
                                </div>
                                <div class="yiv4771867940gmail_default"
                                  style="font-family:comic sans ms,
                                  sans-serif;font-size:small;">M<br
                                    clear="none">
                                </div>
                                <div class="yiv4771867940gmail_default"
                                  style="font-family:comic sans ms,
                                  sans-serif;font-size:small;"><br
                                    clear="none">
                                </div>
                              </div>
                              <br clear="none">
                              <div class="yiv4771867940gmail_quote">
                                <div dir="ltr">On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at
                                  11:30 AM Bob Spidell &lt;<a
                                    rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
                                    ymailto="mailto:[email-masked]"
                                    target="_blank"
                                    href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                                  wrote:<br clear="none">
                                </div>
                                <blockquote
                                  class="yiv4771867940gmail_quote"
                                  style="margin:0 0 0
                                  .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                                  solid;padding-left:1ex;">
                                  <div>
                                    <div>I'll offer what I know/have
                                      heard*.  I have the 'high
                                      capacity' type in my BJ8, which is
                                      what the DWR techs/sales people
                                      recommended for a road car.  Older
                                      6-cyl cars had a rotor type pump. 
                                      They (the rotor type) are supposed
                                      to be more efficient--i.e. they
                                      pump more oil--at lower RPMs.  At
                                      some point it was discovered,
                                      probably from service bay repairs,
                                      that this type of pump put an
                                      excessive shear load on the bevel
                                      gears on the cam that drive the
                                      pump, causing them to wear out. 
                                      Later cars started getting the
                                      gear type pump, which is less
                                      efficient at lower RPMs but puts
                                      less of a load on the cam, and is
                                      probably less expensive to
                                      manufacture as well (esp. if the
                                      gears are the sintered iron
                                      variety).  I think the bevel gears
                                      on the cams were re-engineered,
                                      IIRC they got an additional tooth
                                      to spread the load.<br
                                        clear="none">
                                    </div>
                                    <div>The Welch HC pump is the rotor
                                      type.  I did a full engine rebuild
                                      and installed the DWR HC pump; I
                                      didn't notice any pressure change
                                      worth mentioning--I 'gained' 15
                                      PSI at idle when I had my gauge
                                      overhauled--but the 'high
                                      capacity' I believe refers to
                                      volume rather than pressure
                                      (which, of course, is mostly
                                      dictated by engine speed).   The
                                      'standard type' pump is a gear
                                      type, hence it's more appropriate
                                      for high-RPM race engines as pump
                                      flow is proportional to RPM, and
                                      at 6K RPM or more you'll get
                                      plenty of oil with less load from
                                      the gear type.</div>
                                    <div>I'm not positive, but if you
                                      look at the photos closely, you
                                      can see the 'gallery plug' on the
                                      top of the case.  I suppose it
                                      allows inspection of the innards
                                      of the pump without having to
                                      break the case.  I believe it's
                                      threaded so not likely to pop
                                      out.  If you're getting a new pump
                                      you'll likely need a new drive
                                      shaft and, surprisingly, DWR sells
                                      it cheaper than our (US) vendors
                                      sell it at (I think they might
                                      import the DWR shaft).<br
                                        clear="none">
                                    </div>
                                    * apply appropriate grains of salt<br
                                      clear="none">
                                    <br clear="none">
                                    Bob<br clear="none">
                                    <br clear="none">
                                    <div
class="yiv4771867940m_4764773932981263630m_-555035641554905656moz-cite-prefix">On
                                      10/30/2018 5:12 AM, <a
                                        rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
class="yiv4771867940m_4764773932981263630m_-555035641554905656moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
ymailto="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank"
                                        href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>
                                      wrote:<br clear="none">
                                    </div>
                                    <blockquote type="cite">
                                      <div
class="yiv4771867940m_4764773932981263630m_-555035641554905656WordSection1">
                                        <div
                                          class="yiv4771867940MsoNormal">Hi,</div>
                                        <div
                                          class="yiv4771867940MsoNormal">Has
                                          anyone got the Denis Welch oil
                                          pump ENG672M? See:-</div>
                                        <div
                                          class="yiv4771867940MsoNormal"><a
                                            rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
                                            target="_blank"
href="https://www.bighealey.co.uk/performance-parts/austin-healey/engines/3000-bottom-end?page=3"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.bighealey.co.uk/performance-parts/austin-healey/engines/3000-bottom-end?page=3</a></div>
                                        <h2
style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0cm;line-height:20.25pt;">Their
                                          text:- “<span
                                            style="font-size:9.0pt;">Heat
                                            treated castings for longer
                                            life and removable gallery
                                            plugs to be sure it is clean
                                            are advantages of both types
                                            of oil pumps we offer. We
                                            recommend the high capacity
                                            for all road engines using a
                                            standard type crank up to
                                            6000 rpm and the standard
                                            pump for race engines, steel
                                            cranks or anything over 6000
                                            rpm. Both are precision
                                            machined and assembled
                                            in-house to control the
                                            highest quality.<br
                                              clear="none">
                                          </span><span
                                            style="font-size:10.0pt;">-
                                            ENG672 is the standard type.</span><span
                                            style="font-size:9.0pt;"><br
                                              clear="none">
                                            - ENG672M is the high
                                            capacity pump.”</span></h2>
                                        <div
                                          class="yiv4771867940MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt;"><span
                                            style="font-size:9.0pt;">What
                                            are “removable gallery
                                            plugs”?</span></div>
                                        <div
                                          class="yiv4771867940MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt;"><span
                                            style="font-size:9.0pt;">Is
                                            it just me or is the above a
                                            bit counter-intuitive? “High
                                            capacity” for road cars and
                                            “standard” for race engines?
                                            Surely the highest capacity
                                            is needed where the engine
                                            is working hardest ie
                                            racing? </span></div>
                                        <div
                                          class="yiv4771867940MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt;"><span
                                            style="font-size:9.0pt;">And
                                            don’t I remember that, with
                                            the standard BMC pumps, the
                                            older type is reckoned to be
                                            better than the newer type?
                                            Is this something similar to
                                            Denis Welch’s two pumps?</span></div>
                                        <div
                                          class="yiv4771867940MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt;"><span
                                            style="font-size:9.0pt;">Anyhow,
                                            if anyone’s got one…..what’s
                                            it like? Did the oil
                                            pressure improve at all?</span></div>
                                        <div
                                          class="yiv4771867940MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt;"><span
                                            style="font-size:9.0pt;">I’m
                                            guessing that most people
                                            will have fitted one as part
                                            of a big rebuild thus they
                                            won’t have straightforward
                                            “before and after”
                                            comparisons. I’m thinking of
                                            fitting mine to my engine as
                                            part of a small winter
                                            project and hope I can
                                            squeeze a few more psi into
                                            the system. </span></div>
                                        <div
                                          class="yiv4771867940MsoNormal">Thanks,</div>
                                        <div
                                          class="yiv4771867940MsoNormal">Simon</div>
                                      </div>
                                      <br clear="none">
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[email-masked]

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---

From: Engl <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2018 19:55:39 -0600

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Hi Ed

Indeed, oil pressure on your car (still think of it as your car!) is great a=
s you indicate.=20

Bob England

> On Oct 30, 2018, at 2:01 PM, E.A. Driver <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> Good afternoon
> As with Bruce and Bob  at rebuild of a BJ8 engine I added DWR hcpump in 20=
00,  although I sold the car in 2016, I assume the current owner  will verif=
y that  oil pressure during driving still ranges from 55 to 60 psi and at id=
le 20-25psi.  As Michael has stated if the correct bearing clearances were m=
et during rebuild there should be no issues.
>> I echo Bob=E2=80=99s comments.  I=E2=80=99ve had the DWR high capacity pu=
mp for years.
>> =20
>> Bruce Steele
>> Brea, CA
>> 1960 BN7
>> =20
>> From: Healeys [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Bob Sp=
idell
>> I'll offer what I know/have heard*.  I have the 'high           capacity'=
 type in my BJ8, which is what the DWR techs/sales people recommended for a r=
oad car.  Older 6-cyl cars had a rotor type pump.  They (the rotor type) are=
 supposed to be more efficient--i.e. they pump more oil--at lower RPMs.  At s=
ome point it was discovered, probably from service bay repairs, that this ty=
pe of pump put an excessive shear load on the bevel gears on the cam that dr=
ive the pump, causing them to wear out.  Later cars started getting the gear=
 type pump, which is less efficient at lower RPMs but puts less of a load on=
 the cam, and is probably less expensive to manufacture as well (esp. if the=
 gears are the sintered iron variety).  I think the bevel gears on the cams w=
ere re-engineered, IIRC they got an additional tooth to spread the load.
>>=20
>> The Welch HC pump is the rotor type.  I did a full engine rebuild and ins=
talled the DWR HC pump; I didn't notice any pressure change worth mentioning=
--I 'gained' 15 PSI at idle when I had my gauge overhauled--but the 'high ca=
pacity' I believe refers to volume rather than pressure (which, of course, i=
s mostly dictated by engine speed).   The 'standard type' pump is a gear typ=
e, hence it's more appropriate for high-RPM race engines as pump flow is pro=
portional to RPM, and at 6K RPM or more you'll get plenty of oil with less l=
oad from the gear type.
>>=20
>> I'm not positive, but if you look at the photos closely, you can see the '=
gallery plug' on the top of the case.  I suppose it allows inspection of the=
 innards of the pump without having to break the case.  I believe it's threa=
ded so not likely to pop out.  If you're getting a new pump you'll likely ne=
ed a new drive shaft and, surprisingly, DWR sells it cheaper than our (US) v=
endors sell it at (I think they might import the DWR shaft).
bottom-end?page=3D3
>> Their text:- =E2=80=9CHeat treated castings for longer life and removable=
 gallery plugs to be sure it is clean are advantages of both types of oil pu=
mps we offer. We recommend the high capacity for all road engines using a st=
andard type crank up to 6000 rpm and the standard pump for race engines, ste=
el cranks or anything over 6000 rpm. Both are precision machined and assembl=
ed in-house to control the highest quality.
>> Is it just me or is the above a bit counter-intuitive? =E2=80=9CHigh capa=
city=E2=80=9D for road cars and =E2=80=9Cstandard=E2=80=9D for race engines?=
 Surely the highest capacity is needed where the engine is working hardest i=
e racing?
>> And don=E2=80=99t I remember that, with the standard BMC pumps, the older=
 type is reckoned to be better than the newer type? Is this something simila=
r to Denis Welch=E2=80=99s two pumps?
>> Anyhow, if anyone=E2=80=99s got one=E2=80=A6..what=E2=80=99s it like? Did=
 the oil pressure improve at all?
>> I=E2=80=99m guessing that most people will have fitted one as part of a b=
ig rebuild thus they won=E2=80=99t have straightforward =E2=80=9Cbefore and a=
fter=E2=80=9D comparisons. I=E2=80=99m thinking of fitting mine to my engine=
 as part of a small winter project and hope I can squeeze a few more psi int=
o the system.
ive
[email-masked]
ive
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/edriver=
@sasktel.net
ve
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/engl@acc=
esscomm.ca

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Hi Ed<div><br></div><div>Indeed, oil pressu=
re on your car (still think of it as your car!) is great as you indicate.&nb=
sp;<br><br><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"ltr">Bob England</div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><br>On Oct 30, 2018, at 2:01 PM, E.A. Driver &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><bloc=
kquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">
 =20
    <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html;
      charset=3Dwindows-1252">
 =20
 =20
    <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">Good afternoon<br>
      As with Bruce and Bob&nbsp; at rebuild of a BJ8 engine I added DWR
      hcpump in 2000,&nbsp; although I sold the car in 2016, I assume the
      current owner&nbsp; will verify that&nbsp; oil pressure during driving=
 still
      ranges from 55 to 60 psi and at idle 20-25psi.&nbsp; As Michael has
      stated if the correct bearing clearances were met during rebuild
      there should be no issues.<br>
      Cheers<br>
      Ed<br>
      <br>
      E.A. Driver<br>
      Web master Saskatchewan British Car Club<br>
      Saskatoon, Saskatchewan<br>
      Canada<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      On 30/10/2018 9:52 AM, Bruce Steele wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite" cite=3D"mid:09e901d47068$8ff0f530$afd2df90$@ro=
adrunner.com">
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      <div class=3D"WordSection1">
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&=
quot;Trebuchet
            MS&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext">I echo Bob=E2=80=99s
            comments.&nbsp; I=E2=80=99ve had the DWR high capacity pump for y=
ears.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&=
quot;Trebuchet
            MS&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p>
        <div>
          <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family=
:&quot;Trebuchet
              MS&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Bruce Steele<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
          <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family=
:&quot;Trebuchet
              MS&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Brea, CA<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
          <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family=
:&quot;Trebuchet
              MS&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">1960 BN7<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
        </div>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&=
quot;Trebuchet
            MS&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p>
        <div>
          <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
            1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
            <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color:windowtext">From:=
</span></b><span style=3D"color:windowtext"> Healeys
                [<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"mailto:healeys-b=
[email-masked]">mailto:[email-masked]</a>] <b>On Beha=
lf Of
                </b>Bob Spidell<br>
                <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 30, 2018 7:17 AM<br>
                <b>To:</b> <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mai=
lto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
                <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] oil pump<o:p></o:p></span></p>=

          </div>
        </div>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
        <p>I'll offer what I know/have heard*.&nbsp; I have the 'high
          capacity' type in my BJ8, which is what the DWR techs/sales
          people recommended for a road car.&nbsp; Older 6-cyl cars had a
          rotor type pump.&nbsp; They (the rotor type) are supposed to be
          more efficient--i.e. they pump more oil--at lower RPMs.&nbsp; At
          some point it was discovered, probably from service bay
          repairs, that this type of pump put an excessive shear load on
          the bevel gears on the cam that drive the pump, causing them
          to wear out.&nbsp; Later cars started getting the gear type pump,
          which is less efficient at lower RPMs but puts less of a load
          on the cam, and is probably less expensive to manufacture as
          well (esp. if the gears are the sintered iron variety).&nbsp; I
          think the bevel gears on the cams were re-engineered, IIRC
          they got an additional tooth to spread the load.<span style=3D"fon=
t-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p>The Welch HC pump is the rotor type.&nbsp; I did a full engine
          rebuild and installed the DWR HC pump; I didn't notice any
          pressure change worth mentioning--I 'gained' 15 PSI at idle
          when I had my gauge overhauled--but the 'high capacity' I
          believe refers to volume rather than pressure (which, of
          course, is mostly dictated by engine speed).&nbsp;&nbsp; The 'stan=
dard
          type' pump is a gear type, hence it's more appropriate for
          high-RPM race engines as pump flow is proportional to RPM, and
          at 6K RPM or more you'll get plenty of oil with less load from
          the gear type.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p>I'm not positive, but if you look at the photos closely, you
          can see the 'gallery plug' on the top of the case.&nbsp; I suppose=

          it allows inspection of the innards of the pump without having
          to break the case.&nbsp; I believe it's threaded so not likely to
          pop out.&nbsp; If you're getting a new pump you'll likely need a
          new drive shaft and, surprisingly, DWR sells it cheaper than
          our (US) vendors sell it at (I think they might import the DWR
          shaft).<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">* apply
          appropriate grains of salt<br>
          <br>
          Bob<o:p></o:p></p>
        <div>
          <p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 10/30/2018 5:12 AM, <a href=3D"mailto:si=
[email-masked]" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">simon.lachlan@alex=
arevel.plus.com</a>
            wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
        </div>
        <blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
          <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Has anyone got the Denis Welch oil pump
            ENG672M? See:-<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://www.bighealey.co.uk/perf=
ormance-parts/austin-healey/engines/3000-bottom-end?page=3D3" moz-do-not-sen=
d=3D"true">https://www.bighealey.co.uk/performance-parts/austin-healey/engin=
es/3000-bottom-end?page=3D3</a><o:p></o:p></p>
          <h2 style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bott=
om:6.0pt;margin-left:0in;line-height:20.25pt">Their
            text:- =E2=80=9C<span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Heat
              treated castings for longer life and removable gallery
              plugs to be sure it is clean are advantages of both types
              of oil pumps we offer. We recommend the high capacity for
              all road engines using a standard type crank up to 6000
              rpm and the standard pump for race engines, steel cranks
              or anything over 6000 rpm. Both are precision machined and
              assembled in-house to control the highest quality.<br>
            </span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&q=
uot;,sans-serif;color:#555555;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">-
              ENG672 is the standard type.</span><span style=3D"font-size:9.=
0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555;mso-fareast-langu=
age:EN-GB"><br>
              - ENG672M is the high capacity pump.=E2=80=9D</span><o:p></o:p=
></h2>
          <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:=
14.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif;color:#555555;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">What
              are =E2=80=9Cremovable gallery plugs=E2=80=9D?</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
          <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:=
14.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif;color:#555555;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Is
              it just me or is the above a bit counter-intuitive? =E2=80=9CH=
igh
              capacity=E2=80=9D for road cars and =E2=80=9Cstandard=E2=80=9D=
 for race engines?
              Surely the highest capacity is needed where the engine is
              working hardest ie racing? </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:=
14.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif;color:#555555;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">And
              don=E2=80=99t I remember that, with the standard BMC pumps, th=
e
              older type is reckoned to be better than the newer type?
              Is this something similar to Denis Welch=E2=80=99s two pumps?<=
/span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:=
14.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif;color:#555555;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Anyhow,
              if anyone=E2=80=99s got one=E2=80=A6..what=E2=80=99s it like? D=
id the oil pressure
              improve at all?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:=
14.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif;color:#555555;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">I=E2=80=99m
              guessing that most people will have fitted one as part of
              a big rebuild thus they won=E2=80=99t have straightforward =E2=
=80=9Cbefore
              and after=E2=80=9D comparisons. I=E2=80=99m thinking of fittin=
g mine to my
              engine as part of a small winter project and hope I can
              squeeze a few more psi into the system. </span><o:p></o:p></p>=

          <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Simon<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family=
:&quot;Times New
              Roman&quot;,serif"><br>
              <br>
              <br>
              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
          <pre>Support <a href=3D"http://Team.Net">Team.Net</a> <a href=3D"h=
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 =20

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From: Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2018 23:16:44 -0700

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It's kinda like blood pressure.  Except, lower BP is better.

On 10/30/2018 6:55 PM, Engl wrote:
> Hi Ed
>
> Indeed, oil pressure on your car (still think of it as your car!) is 
> great as you indicate.
>
> Bob England
>
> On Oct 30, 2018, at 2:01 PM, E.A. Driver <[email-masked] 
>
>> Good afternoon
>> As with Bruce and Bob  at rebuild of a BJ8 engine I added DWR hcpump 
>> in 2000,  although I sold the car in 2016, I assume the current 
>> owner  will verify that  oil pressure during driving still ranges 
>> from 55 to 60 psi and at idle 20-25psi.  As Michael has stated if the 
>> correct bearing clearances were met during rebuild there should be no 
>> issues.
>> Cheers
>> Ed
>>
>> E.A. Driver
>>> in my BJ8, which is what the DWR techs/sales people recommended for 
>>> a road car.  Older 6-cyl cars had a rotor type pump.  They (the 
>>> rotor type) are supposed to be more efficient--i.e. they pump more 
>>> oil--at lower RPMs.  At some point it was discovered, probably from 
>>> service bay repairs, that this type of pump put an excessive shear 
>>> load on the bevel gears on the cam that drive the pump, causing them 
>>> to wear out.  Later cars started getting the gear type pump, which 
>>> is less efficient at lower RPMs but puts less of a load on the cam, 
>>> and is probably less expensive to manufacture as well (esp. if the 
>>> gears are the sintered iron variety).  I think the bevel gears on 
>>> the cams were re-engineered, IIRC they got an additional tooth to 
>>> spread the load.
>>>
>>> rather than pressure (which, of course, is mostly dictated by engine 
>>> appropriate for high-RPM race engines as pump flow is proportional 
>>> to RPM, and at 6K RPM or more you'll get plenty of oil with less 
>>> load from the gear type.
>>>
>>> surprisingly, DWR sells it cheaper than our (US) vendors sell it at 
>>> (I think they might import the DWR shaft).
>>>
>>>         advantages of both types of oil pumps we offer. We recommend
>>>         the high capacity for all road engines using a standard type
>>>         crank up to 6000 rpm and the standard pump for race engines,
>>>         steel cranks or anything over 6000 rpm. Both are precision
>>>         machined and assembled in-house to control the highest quality.
>>>     older type is reckoned to be better than the newer type? Is this

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    <p>It's kinda like blood pressure.  Except, lower BP is better.<br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/30/2018 6:55 PM, Engl wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
      Hi Ed
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Indeed, oil pressure on your car (still think of it as your
        car!) is great as you indicate. <br>
        <br>
        <div id="AppleMailSignature" dir="ltr">Bob England</div>
        <div dir="ltr"><br>
          On Oct 30, 2018, at 2:01 PM, E.A. Driver &lt;<a
            href="mailto:[email-masked]" moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
          wrote:<br>
          <br>
        </div>
        <blockquote type="cite">
          <div dir="ltr">
            <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
              charset=utf-8">
            <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Good afternoon<br>
              As with Bruce and Bob  at rebuild of a BJ8 engine I added
              DWR hcpump in 2000,  although I sold the car in 2016, I
              assume the current owner  will verify that  oil pressure
              during driving still ranges from 55 to 60 psi and at idle
              20-25psi.  As Michael has stated if the correct bearing
              clearances were met during rebuild there should be no
              issues.<br>
              Cheers<br>
              Ed<br>
              <br>
              E.A. Driver<br>
              Web master Saskatchewan British Car Club<br>
              Saskatoon, Saskatchewan<br>
              Canada<br>
              <br>
              <br>
              On 30/10/2018 9:52 AM, Bruce Steele wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote type="cite"
              cite="mid:[email-masked]">
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              <div class="WordSection1">
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                    MS&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext">I echo Bob’s
                    comments.  I’ve had the DWR high capacity pump for
                    years.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                    MS&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                      MS&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Bruce Steele<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                      MS&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Brea, CA<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                      MS&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">1960 BN7<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                </div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Trebuchet
                    MS&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
                <div>
                  <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
                    1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                          style="color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
                        style="color:windowtext"> Healeys [<a
                          class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                          href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:[email-masked]</a>]
                        <b>On Behalf Of </b>Bob Spidell<br>
                        <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 30, 2018 7:17 AM<br>
                        <b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                          href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a><br>
                        <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] oil pump<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                <p>I'll offer what I know/have heard*.  I have the 'high
                  capacity' type in my BJ8, which is what the DWR
                  techs/sales people recommended for a road car.  Older
                  6-cyl cars had a rotor type pump.  They (the rotor
                  type) are supposed to be more efficient--i.e. they
                  pump more oil--at lower RPMs.  At some point it was
                  discovered, probably from service bay repairs, that
                  this type of pump put an excessive shear load on the
                  bevel gears on the cam that drive the pump, causing
                  them to wear out.  Later cars started getting the gear
                  type pump, which is less efficient at lower RPMs but
                  puts less of a load on the cam, and is probably less
                  expensive to manufacture as well (esp. if the gears
                  are the sintered iron variety).  I think the bevel
                  gears on the cams were re-engineered, IIRC they got an
                  additional tooth to spread the load.<span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p>The Welch HC pump is the rotor type.  I did a full
                  engine rebuild and installed the DWR HC pump; I didn't
                  notice any pressure change worth mentioning--I
                  'gained' 15 PSI at idle when I had my gauge
                  overhauled--but the 'high capacity' I believe refers
                  to volume rather than pressure (which, of course, is
                  mostly dictated by engine speed).   The 'standard
                  type' pump is a gear type, hence it's more appropriate
                  for high-RPM race engines as pump flow is proportional
                  to RPM, and at 6K RPM or more you'll get plenty of oil
                  with less load from the gear type.<o:p></o:p></p>
                <p>I'm not positive, but if you look at the photos
                  closely, you can see the 'gallery plug' on the top of
                  the case.  I suppose it allows inspection of the
                  innards of the pump without having to break the case. 
                  I believe it's threaded so not likely to pop out.  If
                  you're getting a new pump you'll likely need a new
                  drive shaft and, surprisingly, DWR sells it cheaper
                  than our (US) vendors sell it at (I think they might
                  import the DWR shaft).<o:p></o:p></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">*
                  apply appropriate grains of salt<br>
                  <br>
                  Bob<o:p></o:p></p>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">On 10/30/2018 5:12 AM, <a
                      href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>
                    wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
                </div>
                <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                  <p class="MsoNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">Has anyone got the Denis Welch
                    oil pump ENG672M? See:-<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://www.bighealey.co.uk/performance-parts/austin-healey/engines/3000-bottom-end?page=3"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.bighealey.co.uk/performance-parts/austin-healey/engines/3000-bottom-end?page=3</a><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <h2
style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0in;line-height:20.25pt">Their
                    text:- “<span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Heat
                      treated castings for longer life and removable
                      gallery plugs to be sure it is clean are
                      advantages of both types of oil pumps we offer. We
                      recommend the high capacity for all road engines
                      using a standard type crank up to 6000 rpm and the
                      standard pump for race engines, steel cranks or
                      anything over 6000 rpm. Both are precision
                      machined and assembled in-house to control the
                      highest quality.<br>
                    </span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">-
                      ENG672 is the standard type.</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><br>
                      - ENG672M is the high capacity pump.”</span><o:p></o:p></h2>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                    style="margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">What
                      are “removable gallery plugs”?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                    style="margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Is
                      it just me or is the above a bit
                      counter-intuitive? “High capacity” for road cars
                      and “standard” for race engines? Surely the
                      highest capacity is needed where the engine is
                      working hardest ie racing? </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                    style="margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">And
                      don’t I remember that, with the standard BMC
                      pumps, the older type is reckoned to be better
                      than the newer type? Is this something similar to
                      Denis Welch’s two pumps?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                    style="margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Anyhow,
                      if anyone’s got one…..what’s it like? Did the oil
                      pressure improve at all?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                    style="margin-bottom:12.75pt;line-height:14.4pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#555555;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">I’m
                      guessing that most people will have fitted one as
                      part of a big rebuild thus they won’t have
                      straightforward “before and after” comparisons.
                      I’m thinking of fitting mine to my engine as part
                      of a small winter project and hope I can squeeze a
                      few more psi into the system. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <br>
                </blockquote>
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[email-masked]

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