Subject: Re: [Healeys] Overdrive Question

From: Michael Salter <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2016 16:22:34 -0500

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Hi Andy,
The thing is that there is no mention of the use of any type of sealant on
the clutch ring in any of the literature that I have on the overdrive
units...
Hard to imagine but I have never seen evidence of any on the virgin units
that I have disassembled... I think it was just a dry joint!!!
Michael S
BN1 #174

On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 4:06 PM, Austin Healeys List <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> HI Michael
>
> It has nothing to do with the studs stretching and everything to do
> with the aluminium housing flexing. It only needs to move a tiny bit
> to unstick the sealant and after that there is no longer anything
> stopping the oil weeping out. I'll run an FEA simulation on it some
> time to show just how flexible the ali case is.
>
> btw, Yamabond, Kawabond, Hondabond, Suzukibond etc are all OEM names
> for ThreeBond sealant.
>
> Andy.
>
>
> On 11/7/16, Michael Salter <[email-masked]> wrote:
> > Out of interest I just did the calculations for the change in length of
> the
> > studs in this case.
> > Assuming:
> > 4 x 5/16" dia studs with an effective diameter of 0.25" each (thread
> root)
> > and a length of 3" (in actual fact only the bottom pair are that long).
> > 0.8 G of braking (which is probably way higher than our tires can
> generate)
> > Young's Modulus of 30,000,000 @ 100 degrees F
> > 700 lbs of engine and gearbox (which is probably very high considering
> that
> > the the mounts are all rubber and the main engine mounts would absorb a
> > fair bit as well)
> > Works out to about 0.00028" of stretch.
> > That's less than 10% of a human hair and only during panic braking if the
> > tie rod is the only thing resisting the load.
> > I think that there must be other contributing factors...
> > Michael S
> > BN1 #174
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 11:19 AM, Bluehealey <[email-masked]>
> wrote:
> >
>

-- 
*If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.*

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sa=
ns ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">Hi Andy,<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_def=
ault" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">The th=
ing is that there is no mention of the use of any type of sealant on the cl=
utch ring in any of the literature that I have on the overdrive units... <b=
r>Hard to imagine but I have never seen evidence of any on the virgin units=
 that I have disassembled... I think it was just a dry joint!!!<br></div><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:small">Michael S<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">BN1 #174<br></div></div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Nov 6, 20=
16 at 4:06 PM, Austin Healeys List <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]<=
/a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:=
0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">HI Michael<br>
<br>
It has nothing to do with the studs stretching and everything to do<br>
with the aluminium housing flexing. It only needs to move a tiny bit<br>
to unstick the sealant and after that there is no longer anything<br>
stopping the oil weeping out. I&#39;ll run an FEA simulation on it some<br>
time to show just how flexible the ali case is.<br>
<br>
btw, Yamabond, Kawabond, Hondabond, Suzukibond etc are all OEM names<br>
for ThreeBond sealant.<br>
<br>
Andy.<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br>
On 11/7/16, Michael Salter &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">m=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; Out of interest I just did the calculations for the change in length o=
f the<br>
&gt; studs in this case.<br>
&gt; Assuming:<br>
&gt; 4 x 5/16&quot; dia studs with an effective diameter of 0.25&quot; each=
 (thread root)<br>
&gt; and a length of 3&quot; (in actual fact only the bottom pair are that =
long).<br>
&gt; 0.8 G of braking (which is probably way higher than our tires can gene=
rate)<br>
&gt; Young&#39;s Modulus of 30,000,000 @ 100 degrees F<br>
&gt; 700 lbs of engine and gearbox (which is probably very high considering=
 that<br>
&gt; the the mounts are all rubber and the main engine mounts would absorb =
a<br>
&gt; fair bit as well)<br>
&gt; Works out to about 0.00028&quot; of stretch.<br>
&gt; That&#39;s less than 10% of a human hair and only during panic braking=
 if the<br>
&gt; tie rod is the only thing resisting the load.<br>
&gt; I think that there must be other contributing factors...<br>
&gt; Michael S<br>
&gt; BN1 #174<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 11:19 AM, Bluehealey &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:blue=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div class=
=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><d=
iv><div dir=3D"ltr"><i><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"color:black">If you =
can&#39;t fix it with a hammer, you&#39;ve got an electrical problem.</span=
></font></i><br><br><div></div><div></div><div></div></div></div></div></di=
v>
</div>

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_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

[email-masked]
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys

--===============4800302262533098891==--

---

From: Austin Healeys List <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2016 11:28:49 +1300

Hi Michael,

The other aspect is that the hydraulic pistons apply about a ton of
force forwards to the brake ring when engaging plus a rotational force
which will move things around a bit. Then there is the differential
expansion of ali and steel. The best sealant in the world won't be any
use if the flanges keep opening up and moving around. Maybe the
factory just gave up on trying to seal it, after all there are plenty
of other intentional leaks on these cars.

Andy.

[email-masked]

---

From: David Porter <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2016 17:45:34 -0700

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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I concur, but have on occasion used sealant. It's a PITA to get on both 
sides properly during assembly.. There can be some dissimilar metal 
corrosion after all this time passage.

DaveP

On 11/6/2016 2:22 PM, Michael Salter wrote:
> Hi Andy,
> The thing is that there is no mention of the use of any type of 
> sealant on the clutch ring in any of the literature that I have on the 
> overdrive units...
> Hard to imagine but I have never seen evidence of any on the virgin 
> units that I have disassembled... I think it was just a dry joint!!!
> Michael S
> BN1 #174
>
> On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 4:06 PM, Austin Healeys List 
>
>     HI Michael
>
>     On 11/7/16, Michael Salter <[email-masked]
>     > Out of interest I just did the calculations for the change in
>     length of the
>     > studs in this case.
>     > Assuming:
>     > 4 x 5/16" dia studs with an effective diameter of 0.25" each
>     (thread root)
>     > 0.8 G of braking (which is probably way higher than our tires
>     can generate)
>     > 700 lbs of engine and gearbox (which is probably very high
>     considering that
>     > On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 11:19 AM, Bluehealey
>     >
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> /If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem./
>
>
>
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>
> [email-masked]
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]
>

-- 
Dave Porter Porter Custom Bicycles 2909 Arno St. NE Albuquerque, NM 
87107 505-352-1378 Go HERE: my world www.porterbikes.com/

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      http-equiv="Content-Type">
  </head>
  <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    <p>I concur, but have on occasion used sealant. It's a PITA to get
      on both sides properly during assembly.. There can be some
      dissimilar metal corrosion after all this time passage.</p>
    <p>DaveP</p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/6/2016 2:22 PM, Michael Salter
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAB3i7L+zYrx+Gzq61=[email-masked]"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans
          ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">Hi Andy,<br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans
          ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">The thing is that there is no
          mention of the use of any type of sealant on the clutch ring
          in any of the literature that I have on the overdrive units...
          <br>
          Hard to imagine but I have never seen evidence of any on the
          virgin units that I have disassembled... I think it was just a
          dry joint!!!<br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans
          ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">Michael S<br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans
          ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">BN1 #174<br>
        </div>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 4:06 PM, Austin
          Healeys List <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">HI Michael<br>
            <br>
            It has nothing to do with the studs stretching and
            everything to do<br>
            with the aluminium housing flexing. It only needs to move a
            tiny bit<br>
            to unstick the sealant and after that there is no longer
            anything<br>
            stopping the oil weeping out. I'll run an FEA simulation on
            it some<br>
            time to show just how flexible the ali case is.<br>
            <br>
            btw, Yamabond, Kawabond, Hondabond, Suzukibond etc are all
            OEM names<br>
            for ThreeBond sealant.<br>
            <br>
            Andy.<br>
            <div class="HOEnZb">
              <div class="h5"><br>
                <br>
                On 11/7/16, Michael Salter &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                wrote:<br>
                &gt; Out of interest I just did the calculations for the
                change in length of the<br>
                &gt; studs in this case.<br>
                &gt; Assuming:<br>
                &gt; 4 x 5/16" dia studs with an effective diameter of
                0.25" each (thread root)<br>
                &gt; and a length of 3" (in actual fact only the bottom
                pair are that long).<br>
                &gt; 0.8 G of braking (which is probably way higher than
                our tires can generate)<br>
                &gt; Young's Modulus of 30,000,000 @ 100 degrees F<br>
                &gt; 700 lbs of engine and gearbox (which is probably
                very high considering that<br>
                &gt; the the mounts are all rubber and the main engine
                mounts would absorb a<br>
                &gt; fair bit as well)<br>
                &gt; Works out to about 0.00028" of stretch.<br>
                &gt; That's less than 10% of a human hair and only
                during panic braking if the<br>
                &gt; tie rod is the only thing resisting the load.<br>
                &gt; I think that there must be other contributing
                factors...<br>
                &gt; Michael S<br>
                &gt; BN1 #174<br>
                &gt;<br>
                &gt; On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 11:19 AM, Bluehealey &lt;<a
                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                wrote:<br>
                &gt;<br>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
        <br clear="all">
        <br>
        -- <br>
        <div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
          <div dir="ltr">
            <div>
              <div dir="ltr"><i><font size="2"><span style="color:black">If
                      you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an
                      electrical problem.</span></font></i><br>
                <br>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net/archive</a>
Forums: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/forums">http://www.team.net/forums</a>

<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a>

</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
      Dave Porter
      Porter Custom Bicycles
      2909 Arno St. NE
      Albuquerque, NM 87107
      505-352-1378
      Go HERE: my world <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.porterbikes.com/">www.porterbikes.com/</a>
    </div>
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[email-masked]

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---

From: Jean Caron <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2016 03:27:39 +0000

--===============8461921972041394677==
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	boundary="_000_BLUPR19MB02123B3E3E1E80EDA1678CA5D1A70BLUPR19MB0212namp_"

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I have used sealant as well, just rebuilt an overdrive last week and used s=
ealant, will it make a difference, not so sure about that, but I have long =
accepted the fact that Austin-Healey leak oil and I don't worry about it. S=
everal years ago, a Club member proudly told me that his Healey no longer h=
ad any oil leaks and within a week the engine blew, was it related, not sur=
e but what a coincidence.

Jean

________________________________
From: Healeys <[email-masked]> on behalf of David Porter <f=
[email-masked]>
Sent: November 7, 2016 12:45 AM
To: Michael Salter; Austin Healeys List
Cc: Healey List
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Overdrive Question

I concur, but have on occasion used sealant. It's a PITA to get on both sid=
es properly during assembly.. There can be some dissimilar metal corrosion =
after all this time passage.

DaveP

On 11/6/2016 2:22 PM, Michael Salter wrote:
Hi Andy,
The thing is that there is no mention of the use of any type of sealant on =
the clutch ring in any of the literature that I have on the overdrive units=
...
Hard to imagine but I have never seen evidence of any on the virgin units t=
hat I have disassembled... I think it was just a dry joint!!!
Michael S
BN1 #174

On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 4:06 PM, Austin Healeys List <austinhealeyslist@gmai=
HI Michael

Andy.

ail.com>> wrote:
> Out of interest I just did the calculations for the change in length of t=
he
> studs in this case.
> Assuming:
> 4 x 5/16" dia studs with an effective diameter of 0.25" each (thread root=
)
> 0.8 G of braking (which is probably way higher than our tires can generat=
e)
> 700 lbs of engine and gearbox (which is probably very high considering th=
at
[email-masked]>> wrote:

--
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.

orterscustom.com

--
Dave Porter Porter Custom Bicycles 2909 Arno St. NE Albuquerque, NM 87107 5=
05-352-1378 Go HERE: my world www.porterbikes.com/<http://www.porterbikes.c=
om/>

--_000_BLUPR19MB02123B3E3E1E80EDA1678CA5D1A70BLUPR19MB0212namp_
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-=
1">
<style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"><!-- P {margin-top:0;margi=
n-bottom:0;} --></style>
</head>
<body dir=3D"ltr">
<div id=3D"divtagdefaultwrapper" style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:#000000;font=
-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;" dir=3D"ltr">
<p>I have used sealant as well, just rebuilt an overdrive last week and use=
d sealant, will it make a difference, not so sure about that, but I have lo=
ng accepted the fact that Austin-Healey leak oil and I don't worry about it=
. Several years ago, a Club member
 proudly told me that his Healey no longer had any oil leaks and within a w=
eek the engine blew, was it related, not sure but what a coincidence.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Jean<br>
</p>
<br>
<br>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font style=3D"font-size:11pt" color=
=3D"#000000" face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif"><b>From:</b> Healeys &lt;healeys-=
[email-masked]&gt; on behalf of David Porter &lt;frogeye@porterscus=
tom.com&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> November 7, 2016 12:45 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Michael Salter; Austin Healeys List<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Healey List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] Overdrive Question</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div>
<p>I concur, but have on occasion used sealant. It's a PITA to get on both =
sides properly during assembly.. There can be some dissimilar metal corrosi=
on after all this time passage.</p>
<p>DaveP</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 11/6/2016 2:22 PM, Michael Salter wrote:<=
br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans=0A=
          ms,sans-serif; font-size:small">
Hi Andy,<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans=0A=
          ms,sans-serif; font-size:small">
The thing is that there is no mention of the use of any type of sealant on =
the clutch ring in any of the literature that I have on the overdrive units=
...
<br>
Hard to imagine but I have never seen evidence of any on the virgin units t=
hat I have disassembled... I think it was just a dry joint!!!<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans=0A=
          ms,sans-serif; font-size:small">
Michael S<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans=0A=
          ms,sans-serif; font-size:small">
BN1 #174<br>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 4:06 PM, Austin Healeys L=
ist <span dir=3D"ltr">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">austin=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0=0A=
            .8ex; border-left:1px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex">
HI Michael<br>
<br>
It has nothing to do with the studs stretching and everything to do<br>
with the aluminium housing flexing. It only needs to move a tiny bit<br>
to unstick the sealant and after that there is no longer anything<br>
stopping the oil weeping out. I'll run an FEA simulation on it some<br>
time to show just how flexible the ali case is.<br>
<br>
btw, Yamabond, Kawabond, Hondabond, Suzukibond etc are all OEM names<br>
for ThreeBond sealant.<br>
<br>
Andy.<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb">
<div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br>
On 11/7/16, Michael Salter &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">m=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; Out of interest I just did the calculations for the change in length o=
f the<br>
&gt; studs in this case.<br>
&gt; Assuming:<br>
&gt; 4 x 5/16&quot; dia studs with an effective diameter of 0.25&quot; each=
 (thread root)<br>
&gt; and a length of 3&quot; (in actual fact only the bottom pair are that =
long).<br>
&gt; 0.8 G of braking (which is probably way higher than our tires can gene=
rate)<br>
&gt; Young's Modulus of 30,000,000 @ 100 degrees F<br>
&gt; 700 lbs of engine and gearbox (which is probably very high considering=
 that<br>
&gt; the the mounts are all rubber and the main engine mounts would absorb =
a<br>
&gt; fair bit as well)<br>
&gt; Works out to about 0.00028&quot; of stretch.<br>
&gt; That's less than 10% of a human hair and only during panic braking if =
the<br>
&gt; tie rod is the only thing resisting the load.<br>
&gt; I think that there must be other contributing factors...<br>
&gt; Michael S<br>
&gt; BN1 #174<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 11:19 AM, Bluehealey &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:blue=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear=3D"all">
<br>
-- <br>
<div class=3D"gmail_signature">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><i><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"color:black">If you can=
't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.</span></font></i=
><br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class=3D"mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset> <br>
<pre>_______________________________________________=0A=
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Forums: <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://www.team.net/foru=
ms">http://www.team.net/forums</a>=0A=
=0A=
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
">[email-masked]</a>=0A=
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/li=
stinfo/healeys">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a>=0A=
=0A=
.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]">http://autox.t=
eam.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]</a>=0A=
=0A=
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div class=3D"moz-signature">-- <br>
Dave Porter Porter Custom Bicycles 2909 Arno St. NE Albuquerque, NM 87107 5=
05-352-1378 Go HERE: my world
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"http://www.porterbikes.com/">=
www.porterbikes.com/</a>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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[email-masked]

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---

From: i erbs <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2016 05:33:32 -0800

--===============1348075253880304969==

--001a11472facfc92b30540b61178

They only stop leaking when they are out of oil. So most likely related to
the failure.

Ira Erbs
1959 100-6
MKI engine and disc brakes
Portland,OR

On Nov 6, 2016 9:38 PM, "Jean Caron" <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> I have used sealant as well, just rebuilt an overdrive last week and used
> sealant, will it make a difference, not so sure about that, but I have long
> accepted the fact that Austin-Healey leak oil and I don't worry about it.
> Several years ago, a Club member proudly told me that his Healey no longer
> had any oil leaks and within a week the engine blew, was it related, not
> sure but what a coincidence.
>
>
> Jean
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Healeys <[email-masked]> on behalf of David
> Porter <[email-masked]>
> *Sent:* November 7, 2016 12:45 AM
> *To:* Michael Salter; Austin Healeys List
> *Cc:* Healey List
> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] Overdrive Question
>
>
> [email-masked]://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
>
> Dave Porter Porter Custom Bicycles 2909 Arno St. NE Albuquerque, NM 87107
> 505-352-1378 Go HERE: my world www.porterbikes.com/
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/
> options/healeys/[email-masked]
>
>
>

--001a11472facfc92b30540b61178
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<p dir=3D"ltr">They only stop leaking when they are out of oil. So most lik=
ely related to the failure.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">Ira Erbs<br>
1959 100-6<br>
MKI engine and disc brakes<br>
Portland,OR</p>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Nov 6, 2016 9:=
38 PM, &quot;Jean Caron&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:vintage_roadster_restor=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<=
br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0=
 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div id=3D"m_2798980074683027735divtagdefaultwrapper" style=3D"font-size:12=
pt;color:#000000;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" dir=3D"ltr=
">
<p>I have used sealant as well, just rebuilt an overdrive last week and use=
d sealant, will it make a difference, not so sure about that, but I have lo=
ng accepted the fact that Austin-Healey leak oil and I don&#39;t worry abou=
t it. Several years ago, a Club member
 proudly told me that his Healey no longer had any oil leaks and within a w=
eek the engine blew, was it related, not sure but what a coincidence.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Jean<br>
</p>
<br>
<br>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id=3D"m_2798980074683027735divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font style=3D"f=
ont-size:11pt" color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif"><b>From:</b> =
Healeys &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_bl=
ank">[email-masked].<wbr>net</a>&gt; on behalf of David Porter =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">frogeye@=
porterscustom.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> November 7, 2016 12:45 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Michael Salter; Austin Healeys List<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Healey List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] Overdrive Question</font>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div>
<p>I concur, but have on occasion used sealant. It&#39;s a PITA to get on b=
oth sides properly during assembly.. There can be some dissimilar metal cor=
rosion after all this time passage.</p>
<p>DaveP</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class=3D"m_2798980074683027735moz-cite-prefix">On 11/6/2016 2:22 PM, M=
ichael Salter wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;=
font-size:small">
Hi Andy,<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;=
font-size:small">
The thing is that there is no mention of the use of any type of sealant on =
the clutch ring in any of the literature that I have on the overdrive units=
...
<br>
Hard to imagine but I have never seen evidence of any on the virgin units t=
hat I have disassembled... I think it was just a dry joint!!!<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;=
font-size:small">
Michael S<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;=
font-size:small">
BN1 #174<br>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 4:06 PM, Austin Healeys L=
ist <span dir=3D"ltr">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">austin=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
HI Michael<br>
<br>
It has nothing to do with the studs stretching and everything to do<br>
with the aluminium housing flexing. It only needs to move a tiny bit<br>
to unstick the sealant and after that there is no longer anything<br>
stopping the oil weeping out. I&#39;ll run an FEA simulation on it some<br>
time to show just how flexible the ali case is.<br>
<br>
btw, Yamabond, Kawabond, Hondabond, Suzukibond etc are all OEM names<br>
for ThreeBond sealant.<br>
<br>
Andy.<br>
<div class=3D"m_2798980074683027735HOEnZb">
<div class=3D"m_2798980074683027735h5"><br>
<br>
On 11/7/16, Michael Salter &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" t=
arget=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; Out of interest I just did the calculations for the change in length o=
f the<br>
&gt; studs in this case.<br>
&gt; Assuming:<br>
&gt; 4 x 5/16&quot; dia studs with an effective diameter of 0.25&quot; each=
 (thread root)<br>
&gt; and a length of 3&quot; (in actual fact only the bottom pair are that =
long).<br>
&gt; 0.8 G of braking (which is probably way higher than our tires can gene=
rate)<br>
&gt; Young&#39;s Modulus of 30,000,000 @ 100 degrees F<br>
&gt; 700 lbs of engine and gearbox (which is probably very high considering=
 that<br>
&gt; the the mounts are all rubber and the main engine mounts would absorb =
a<br>
&gt; fair bit as well)<br>
&gt; Works out to about 0.00028&quot; of stretch.<br>
&gt; That&#39;s less than 10% of a human hair and only during panic braking=
 if the<br>
&gt; tie rod is the only thing resisting the load.<br>
&gt; I think that there must be other contributing factors...<br>
&gt; Michael S<br>
&gt; BN1 #174<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 11:19 AM, Bluehealey &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:blue=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear=3D"all">
<br>
-- <br>
<div class=3D"m_2798980074683027735gmail_signature">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><i><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"color:black">If you can=
&#39;t fix it with a hammer, you&#39;ve got an electrical problem.</span></=
font></i><br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class=3D"m_2798980074683027735mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset> <=
br>
<pre>______________________________<wbr>_________________
ef=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.ne=
t/donate.<wbr>html</a>
Archive: <a class=3D"m_2798980074683027735moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"ht=
tp://www.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a=
Forums: <a class=3D"m_2798980074683027735moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"htt=
p://www.team.net/forums" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/forums</a>

<a class=3D"m_2798980074683027735moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:H=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>
<a class=3D"m_2798980074683027735moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://auto=
x.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.ne=
t/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/healeys</a>

 href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/frogeye@porterscusto=
m.com" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/<wbr>options/healeys=
/frogeye@<wbr>porterscustom.com</a>

</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div class=3D"m_2798980074683027735moz-signature">-- <br>
Dave Porter Porter Custom Bicycles 2909 Arno St. NE Albuquerque, NM 87107 <=
a href=3D"tel:505-352-1378" value=3D"+15053521378" target=3D"_blank">505-35=
2-1378</a> Go HERE: my world
<a class=3D"m_2798980074683027735moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"http://w=
ww.porterbikes.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.porterbikes.com/</a>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
rer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.<wbr>html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D=
"_blank">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys" rel=3D"noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/healeys</a=
><br>
<br>
s/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.te=
am.net/mailman/<wbr>options/healeys/eyera3000@<wbr>gmail.com</a><br>
<br>
<br></blockquote></div></div>

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[email-masked]

--===============1348075253880304969==--

---

From: Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2016 14:57:00 +0000 (UTC)

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	boundary="----=_Part_38237833_230381749.1478530620642"

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As long as we're on the topic of lubricants (for autos ... get your mind ou=
t off the gutter ;)):=20

I just refreshed the Royal Purple Synchromax in my Mustang's gearbox. I fir=
st installed it at a couple thousand miles mileage; car now has about 122K =
miles. Synchromax was suggested by a Mustang guru when I asked the interweb=
s what would help what I thought was somewhat 'notchy' shifting; it indeed =
seemed to make shifts a little smoother. I know manufacturers now recommend=
 not changing the oil in differentials and manual transmissions ever, or at=
 least at very long intervals. I only changed the Mustang gearbox oil becau=
se, well, because of general principles. To my surprise--I wasn't expected =
this at all--the gearbox seemed to shift smoother. To me, this could indica=
te that, even in areas that don't get contaminated with combustion byproduc=
ts lubricants can be 'worn out.' I think synthetics are overall better--I c=
an think of one specific exception, but it doesn't apply to autos--but they=
 still need to be changed, probably due to heat and sheer forces breaking d=
own the long chain molecules in the fluid. Also, the old oil was black, whe=
reas the fresh oil has a purple hue (duh). Not sure why that would be--as t=
here is no way for combustion byproducts to get into the gearbox--except po=
ssibly the silly dye used to color the oil might break down from heat and s=
heer forces.=20

FWIW.=20

Bob=20

----- Original Message -----

From: "i erbs" <[email-masked]>=20
To: "Jean Caron" <[email-masked]>=20
Cc: "Ahealey help" <[email-masked]>=20
Sent: Monday, November 7, 2016 5:33:32 AM=20
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Overdrive Question=20

They only stop leaking when they are out of oil. So most likely related to =
the failure.=20

Ira Erbs=20
1959 100-6=20
MKI engine and disc brakes=20
Portland,OR=20

On Nov 6, 2016 9:38 PM, "Jean Caron" < vintage_roadster_restoration@hotmail=
.com > wrote:=20

e but what a coincidence.=20

Jean=20

From: Healeys < [email-masked] > on behalf of David Porter =
< [email-masked] >=20
Sent: November 7, 2016 12:45 AM=20
To: Michael Salter; Austin Healeys List=20
Cc: Healey List=20
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Overdrive Question=20

I concur, but have on occasion used sealant. It's a PITA to get on both sid=
es properly during assembly.. There can be some dissimilar metal corrosion =
after all this time passage.=20

DaveP=20

On 11/6/2016 2:22 PM, Michael Salter wrote:=20

<blockquote>

Hi Andy,=20
The thing is that there is no mention of the use of any type of sealant on =
the clutch ring in any of the literature that I have on the overdrive units=
...=20
Hard to imagine but I have never seen evidence of any on the virgin units t=
hat I have disassembled... I think it was just a dry joint!!!=20
Michael S=20
BN1 #174=20

</blockquote>

------=_Part_38237833_230381749.1478530620642
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><body><div style=3D"font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #0000=
00"><div aria-label=3D"Compose body">As long as we're on the topic of lubri=
cants (for autos ... get your mind out off the gutter ;)):</div><div aria-l=
abel=3D"Compose body"><br></div><div aria-label=3D"Compose body">I just ref=
reshed the Royal Purple Synchromax in my Mustang's gearbox. &nbsp;I first i=
nstalled it at a couple thousand miles mileage; car now has about 122K mile=
s. &nbsp;Synchromax was suggested by a Mustang guru when I asked the interw=
ebs what would help what I thought was somewhat 'notchy' shifting; it indee=
d seemed to make shifts a little smoother. &nbsp;I know manufacturers now r=
ecommend not changing the oil in differentials and manual transmissions eve=
r, or at least at very long intervals. &nbsp;I only changed the Mustang gea=
rbox oil because, well, because of general principles. &nbsp;To my surprise=
--I wasn't expected this at all--the gearbox seemed to shift smoother. &nbs=
p;To me, this could indicate that, even in areas that don't get contaminate=
d with combustion byproducts lubricants can be 'worn out.' &nbsp;I think sy=
nthetics are overall better--I can think of one specific exception, but it =
doesn't apply to autos--but they still need to be changed, probably due to =
heat and sheer forces breaking down the long chain molecules in the fluid. =
&nbsp;Also, the old oil was black, whereas the fresh oil has a purple hue (=
duh). &nbsp;Not sure why that would be--as there is no way for combustion b=
yproducts to get into the gearbox--except possibly the silly dye used to co=
lor the oil might break down from heat and sheer forces.</div><div aria-lab=
el=3D"Compose body"><br></div><div aria-label=3D"Compose body">FWIW.</div><=
div aria-label=3D"Compose body"><br></div><div aria-label=3D"Compose body">=
Bob</div><div><br></div><hr id=3D"zwchr"><div style=3D"color:#000;font-weig=
ht:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:Helvetica,Aria=
l,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;" data-mce-style=3D"color: #000; font-weight: n=
ormal; font-style: normal; text-decoration: none; font-family: Helvetica,Ar=
ial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><b>From: </b>"i erbs" &lt;eyera3000@gmail=
.com&gt;<br><b>To: </b>"Jean Caron" &lt;vintage_roadster_restoration@hotmai=
l.com&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>"Ahealey help" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b=
>Sent: </b>Monday, November 7, 2016 5:33:32 AM<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Heal=
eys] Overdrive Question<br><div><br></div><p dir=3D"ltr">They only stop lea=
king when they are out of oil. So most likely related to the failure.</p><p=
 dir=3D"ltr">Ira Erbs<br> 1959 100-6<br> MKI engine and disc brakes<br> Por=
tland,OR</p><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On No=
v 6, 2016 9:38 PM, "Jean Caron" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:vintage_roadster_rest=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" data-mce-href=3D"mailto:vintage_road=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&=
gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex" data-mce-style=3D"margin: 0 0 =
0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr"><=
div id=3D"m_2798980074683027735divtagdefaultwrapper" style=3D"font-size:12p=
t;color:#000000;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" dir=3D"ltr"=
 data-mce-style=3D"font-size: 12pt; color: #000000; font-family: Calibri,Ar=
ial,Helvetica,sans-serif;"><p>I have used sealant as well, just rebuilt an =
overdrive last week and used sealant, will it make a difference, not so sur=
e about that, but I have long accepted the fact that Austin-Healey leak oil=
 and I don't worry about it. Several years ago, a Club member proudly told =
me that his Healey no longer had any oil leaks and within a week the engine=
 blew, was it related, not sure but what a coincidence.</p><p><br></p><p>Je=
an<br></p><br> <br><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)" data-mce-style=3D"color:=
 #000000;"><hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%" data-mce-style=3D"d=
isplay: inline-block; width: 98%;"><div id=3D"m_2798980074683027735divRplyF=
wdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><span data-mce-style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: #000000;=
 font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: #00000=
0; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Calibri, sa=
ns-serif"><b>From:</b> Healeys &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.=
team.net" target=3D"_blank" data-mce-href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
eam.net">[email-masked]</a>&gt; on behalf of David Porter &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" data-mce-=
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;=
<br> <b>Sent:</b> November 7, 2016 12:45 AM<br> <b>To:</b> Michael Salter; =
Austin Healeys List<br> <b>Cc:</b> Healey List<br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Hea=
leys] Overdrive Question</span><div>&nbsp;</div></div><div><p>I concur, but=
 have on occasion used sealant. It's a PITA to get on both sides properly d=
uring assembly.. There can be some dissimilar metal corrosion after all thi=
s time passage.</p><p>DaveP</p><p><br></p><br><div class=3D"m_2798980074683=
027735moz-cite-prefix">On 11/6/2016 2:22 PM, Michael Salter wrote:<br></div=
><blockquote><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small" data-mce-style=3D"font-famil=
y: comic sans ms,sans-serif; font-size: small;">Hi Andy,<br></div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size=
:small" data-mce-style=3D"font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif; font-size:=
 small;">The thing is that there is no mention of the use of any type of se=
alant on the clutch ring in any of the literature that I have on the overdr=
ive units... <br> Hard to imagine but I have never seen evidence of any on =
the virgin units that I have disassembled... I think it was just a dry join=
t!!!<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans =
ms,sans-serif;font-size:small" data-mce-style=3D"font-family: comic sans ms=
,sans-serif; font-size: small;">Michael S<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_defa=
ult" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small" data-mc=
e-style=3D"font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif; font-size: small;">BN1 #1=
74<br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"=
></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div>=
<div><br></div></div><div><br></div></div></body></html>
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[email-masked]

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