Subject: Re: [Healeys] SAE 140 Use In Differential To Reduce Noise?

From: Doug Barker <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 14:02:17 -0500

This goes way back but did anybody respond and if so what was the
conclusion?

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
On Behalf Of Graham Wilkie
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2014 10:43 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [Healeys] SAE 140 Use In Differential To Reduce Noise?

Hello All,

The differential on my 1966 BJ8 starts to whine once I have driven for
several miles, and everything has warmed up to normal operating temperature.
It only occurs during accelerator pedal movement down (under load). The
whining diminishes during coasting or deceleration.

The differential is filled with Penrite 80W 90 mineral gear oil. (Recently
changed).

I am considering replacing my differential gear oil with Penrite SAE 140
mineral gear oil. (Note no 'W' prefix; it is straight SAE 140). This product
claims it will reduce differential noise in older vehicles. I wonder if it
is suitable for our Healeys?

I seem to recall reading on the List that our rear wheel bearings are splash
lubricated by differential oil, but cannot find any reference to that in my
workshop manual. Is that correct? I'm concerned that if that is the case,
will the SAE 140 be too viscous to splash lubricate the rear wheel bearings
effectively?

Would I be better of using a gear oil additive like Nulon G70 instead?

Any shared thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Regards, Graham Wilkie.
BJ8 Moruya NSW Australia.
_______________________________________________
$12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

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From: "Simon Lachlan" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 20:06:36 -0000

I don't know where you are. However, wherever you are, you may well find
someone fairly local who can take the whine out of your diff. by adjusting
it properly. The BMC manual explains exactly how to do it, but it's all
fairly hard to understand and, I suggest, virtually impossible without the
right tools as shown in said manual. I had mine done when I switched diff
ratios. It was a quick job and not at all expensive.
I'd suggest that, while your whine may never get any worse, trying to cure
it with "bottled miracles" will be a hopeless endeavour and may even make
things go from bad to worse.
Happy Christmas!
Simon

-----Original Message-----
From: Healeys [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Doug
Barker
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 19:02
To: 'Graham Wilkie'; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Healeys] SAE 140 Use In Differential To Reduce Noise?

-----Original Message-----

Hello All,

Thank you.

Regards, Graham Wilkie.

[email-masked]

[email-masked]

http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]

[email-masked]

---

From: "Simon Lachlan" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 20:12:28 -0000 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0028_01D13DBE.4046AFF0"

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I meant to attach the correct pages from the manual. Hope it works.
Simon

-----Original Message-----

Hello All,

Thank you.

Regards, Graham Wilkie.

[email-masked]

[email-masked]

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[email-masked]

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From: Oudesluys <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 22:18:10 +0100

Thicker oil may help for a while, but it does not take away the problem. 
The diff may well continue to function with wine for ever, but it 
certainly is not a pleasant noise
Have the diff attended to to prevent perhaps further mishaps and most 
certainly to eliminate that worrying feeling.
Kees Oudesluijs

Op 23-12-2015 om 20:02 schreef Doug Barker:
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---

From: Michael Oritt <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 17:10:31 -0500

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Graham--

Yes the bearings are splash-fed.  The weight of the oil will not affect the
lubrication to the bearings as the lower number is the same.  I doubt using
oil with a higher upper number will have any beneficial effect.  Better to
have the diff set up properly as others suggest though if you have been
running the set for some time then the gears may already be worn in to each
other and you may not be able to have the R & P set reshimmed, etc.

Best--Michael Oritt

On Wed, Dec 23, 2015 at 2:02 PM, Doug Barker <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:#3333ff">Graha=
m--</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:#3333ff"><br></div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:#3333ff">Yes the bearings are spla=
sh-fed.=C2=A0 The weight of the oil will not affect the lubrication to the =
bearings as the lower number is the same.=C2=A0 I doubt using oil with a hi=
gher upper number will have any beneficial effect.=C2=A0 Better to have the=
 diff set up properly as others suggest though if you have been running the=
 set for some time then the gears may already be worn in to each other and =
you may not be able to have the R &amp; P set reshimmed, etc.</div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:#3333ff"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_=
default" style=3D"color:#3333ff">Best--Michael Oritt</div><div class=3D"gma=
il_default" style=3D"color:#3333ff"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"color:#3333ff"><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div=
 class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 23, 2015 at 2:02 PM, Doug Barker <span d=
ir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_bl=
ank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex">This goes way back but did anybody respond and if so what was=
 the<br>
conclusion?<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">healeys-bounces@aut=
ox.team.net</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">h=
[email-masked]</a>]<br>
On Behalf Of Graham Wilkie<br>
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2014 10:43 PM<br>
To: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br=
Subject: [Healeys] SAE 140 Use In Differential To Reduce Noise?<br>
<br>
Hello All,<br>
<br>
The differential on my 1966 BJ8 starts to whine once I have driven for<br>
several miles, and everything has warmed up to normal operating temperature=
.<br>
It only occurs during accelerator pedal movement down (under load). The<br>
whining diminishes during coasting or deceleration.<br>
<br>
The differential is filled with Penrite 80W 90 mineral gear oil. (Recently<=
br>
changed).<br>
<br>
I am considering replacing my differential gear oil with Penrite SAE 140<br=
mineral gear oil. (Note no &#39;W&#39; prefix; it is straight SAE 140). Thi=
s product<br>
claims it will reduce differential noise in older vehicles. I wonder if it<=
br>
is suitable for our Healeys?<br>
<br>
I seem to recall reading on the List that our rear wheel bearings are splas=
h<br>
lubricated by differential oil, but cannot find any reference to that in my=
<br>
workshop manual. Is that correct? I&#39;m concerned that if that is the cas=
e,<br>
will the SAE 140 be too viscous to splash lubricate the rear wheel bearings=
<br>
effectively?<br>
<br>
Would I be better of using a gear oil additive like Nulon G70 instead?<br>
<br>
Any shared thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.<br>
<br>
Thank you.<br>
<br>
Regards, Graham Wilkie.<br>
BJ8 Moruya NSW Australia.<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
rer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a> Suggested annual=
 donation<br>
$12.75<br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D=
"_blank">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
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r" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/douglas.barker@vid=
eotron.ca" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailm=
an/options/healeys/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
rer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
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Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D=
"_blank">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>
<br>
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<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys" rel=3D"noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a><br>
<br>
s/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://auto=
x.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

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[email-masked]

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From: Graham Wilkie <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 03:47:22 +0000

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=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
Hi Doug=2C
=20
I received several responses=3B the conventional wisdom was to remove the d=
ifferential and have a specialist carry out the work. That is on my to-do l=
ist.
=20
Until I get to that item on my list=2C here is what I have done. I drained =
the Penrite 80W 90 mineral gear oil=2C and replaced it with Penrite 140 Gea=
r Oil - Premium Mineral. This product claims "for quieting noisy differenti=
als=2C where the noise is due to wear=2C thus prolonging the life of the un=
it".=20
=20
After about 60 miles of driving=2C the whine was certainly still evident. A=
 bit quieter=2C but not significantly so. Following suggestions from others=
=2C I then added Nulon G70 to the Penrite 140 Gear Oil in the differential.
=20
I have covered some 1=2C123 miles since then.=20
=20
Conclusion: The pitch level of the diff whine is lower=2C more like a hummi=
ng=3B it is now easier to live with at and above 60mph. The most improvemen=
t occurred after adding the Nulon G70. I will continue to run this combinat=
ion in the differential for now. Knowing the result=2C I would do it again.=
=20
=20
As has been pointed out by others=2C the real fix is to have the differenti=
al adjusted or repaired by a differential specialist. Hope that answers you=
r question. Regards=2C Graham Wilkie.Moruya=2C Australia.=20
=20
> From: [email-masked]
> To: [email-masked]=3B [email-masked]
> Subject: RE: [Healeys] SAE 140 Use In Differential To Reduce Noise?
> Date: Wed=2C 23 Dec 2015 14:02:17 -0500
>=20
>=20
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]=
et]
> Sent: Thursday=2C April 03=2C 2014 10:43 PM
>=20
> Hello All=2C
>=20
> several miles=2C and everything has warmed up to normal operating tempera=
ture.
>=20
> The differential is filled with Penrite 80W 90 mineral gear oil. (Recentl=
y
>=20
> mineral gear oil. (Note no 'W' prefix=3B it is straight SAE 140). This pr=
oduct
> claims it will reduce differential noise in older vehicles. I wonder if i=
t
>=20
> I seem to recall reading on the List that our rear wheel bearings are spl=
ash
> lubricated by differential oil=2C but cannot find any reference to that i=
n my
> workshop manual. Is that correct? I'm concerned that if that is the case=
=2C
> will the SAE 140 be too viscous to splash lubricate the rear wheel bearin=
gs
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Regards=2C Graham Wilkie.
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donatio=
n
>=20
>=20
>=20
=0A=
=0A=
 		 	   		  =

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Doug=2C<br>&nbsp=3B<br>I received several responses=3B =
the conventional wisdom was to remove the differential&nbsp=3Band have a sp=
ecialist carry out the work. That is on&nbsp=3Bmy to-do list.<br>&nbsp=3B<b=
r>Until I get to that item on my list=2C here is what I have done. I draine=
d the Penrite 80W 90 mineral gear oil=2C and replaced it with Penrite 140 G=
ear Oil - Premium Mineral. This product claims&nbsp=3B"for quieting noisy d=
ifferentials=2C where the&nbsp=3Bnoise is due to wear=2C thus prolonging th=
e life of the unit". <br>&nbsp=3B<br>After about 60 miles of driving=2C&nbs=
p=3Bthe whine was certainly still evident.&nbsp=3BA bit quieter=2C but not&=
nbsp=3Bsignificantly so.&nbsp=3BFollowing suggestions from others=2C I then=
 added Nulon G70 to the Penrite 140 Gear Oil in the differential.<br>&nbsp=
=3B<br>I have covered some 1=2C123 miles since then.&nbsp=3B<br>&nbsp=3B<br=
><strong>Conclusion:</strong> The&nbsp=3Bpitch level of the diff whine is l=
ower=2C more like a humming=3B it is now&nbsp=3Beasier to live with&nbsp=3B=
at and above 60mph.&nbsp=3BThe&nbsp=3Bmost improvement occurred&nbsp=3Bafte=
r adding the Nulon G70. I will continue to run this combination in the diff=
erential&nbsp=3Bfor now.&nbsp=3BKnowing the result=2C I would do it again.&=
nbsp=3B<br>&nbsp=3B<br>As has been pointed out by others=2C the real fix is=
 to have the differential adjusted&nbsp=3Bor repaired by a differential spe=
cialist.</div><div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp=3B</div><div dir=3D"ltr">Hope that ans=
wers your question.</div><div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp=3B</div><div dir=3D"ltr">Re=
gards=2C Graham Wilkie.</div><div dir=3D"ltr">Moruya=2C Australia.&nbsp=3B<=
br>&nbsp=3B<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&gt=3B From: douglas.barker@videotron=
.ca<br>&gt=3B To: [email-masked]=3B [email-masked]<br>&gt=3B=
 Subject: RE: [Healeys] SAE 140 Use In Differential To Reduce Noise?<br>&gt=
=3B Date: Wed=2C 23 Dec 2015 14:02:17 -0500<br>&gt=3B <br>&gt=3B This goes =
way back but did anybody respond and if so what was the<br>&gt=3B conclusio=
n?<br>&gt=3B <br>&gt=3B -----Original Message-----<br>&gt=3B From: healeys-=
[email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]<br>&gt=3B On=
 Behalf Of Graham Wilkie<br>&gt=3B Sent: Thursday=2C April 03=2C 2014 10:43=
 PM<br>&gt=3B To: [email-masked]<br>&gt=3B Subject: [Healeys] SAE 1=
40 Use In Differential To Reduce Noise?<br>&gt=3B <br>&gt=3B Hello All=2C<b=
r>&gt=3B <br>&gt=3B The differential on my 1966 BJ8 starts to whine once I =
have driven for<br>&gt=3B several miles=2C and everything has warmed up to =
normal operating temperature.<br>&gt=3B It only occurs during accelerator p=
edal movement down (under load). The<br>&gt=3B whining diminishes during co=
asting or deceleration.<br>&gt=3B <br>&gt=3B The differential is filled wit=
h Penrite 80W 90 mineral gear oil. (Recently<br>&gt=3B changed).<br>&gt=3B =
<br>&gt=3B I am considering replacing my differential gear oil with Penrite=
 SAE 140<br>&gt=3B mineral gear oil. (Note no 'W' prefix=3B it is straight =
SAE 140). This product<br>&gt=3B claims it will reduce differential noise i=
n older vehicles. I wonder if it<br>&gt=3B is suitable for our Healeys?<br>=
&gt=3B <br>&gt=3B I seem to recall reading on the List that our rear wheel =
bearings are splash<br>&gt=3B lubricated by differential oil=2C but cannot =
find any reference to that in my<br>&gt=3B workshop manual. Is that correct=
? I'm concerned that if that is the case=2C<br>&gt=3B will the SAE 140 be t=
oo viscous to splash lubricate the rear wheel bearings<br>&gt=3B effectivel=
y?<br>&gt=3B <br>&gt=3B Would I be better of using a gear oil additive like=
 Nulon G70 instead?<br>&gt=3B <br>&gt=3B Any shared thoughts or suggestions=
 would be greatly appreciated.<br>&gt=3B <br>&gt=3B Thank you.<br>&gt=3B <b=
r>&gt=3B Regards=2C Graham Wilkie.<br>&gt=3B BJ8 Moruya NSW Australia.<br>&=
gt=3B _______________________________________________<br>&gt=3B Support Tea=
m.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation<br>&gt=3B $=
12.75<br>&gt=3B Archive: http://www.team.net/archive<br>&gt=3B Forums: http=
://www.team.net/forums<br>&gt=3B <br>&gt=3B [email-masked]<br>&gt=
=3B http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys<br>&gt=3B <br>&gt=3B Uns=
ubscribe/Manage:<br>&gt=3B http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/do=
[email-masked]<br>&gt=3B <br></div>=0A=
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[email-masked]

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From: Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 20:54:26 -0800

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Thanks for the detailed feedback Graham.   FWIW, there's been a 
discussion on this topic on the Forum.  There's at least some agreement 
that the 3.45 diffs may be a bit noisier than the 3.91s, even when set 
up by a qualified shop (it seems to be hit-or-miss). Noisy diffs have 
been a problem for many years; when my dad was a service rep at Ford 
they got lots of complaints about noisy diffs in early Mustangs.  My 
2008 Mustang has a noisy diff--how's that for respecting heritage?

I still have the 3.91 that came out of my BJ8 at about 120K miles. The 
wear pattern was barely discernible but flawless.  It made no noise that 
I ever noticed.  I suspect the only advantage to a heavier fluid is that 
it muffles the noise a bit more.

Merry Christmas to all.

Bob

On 12/23/2015 7:47 PM, Graham Wilkie wrote:
> Hi Doug,
>
> I received several responses; the conventional wisdom was to remove 
> the differential and have a specialist carry out the work. That is 
> on my to-do list.
>
> Until I get to that item on my list, here is what I have done. I 
> drained the Penrite 80W 90 mineral gear oil, and replaced it with 
> Penrite 140 Gear Oil - Premium Mineral. This product claims "for 
> quieting noisy differentials, where the noise is due to wear, thus 
> prolonging the life of the unit".
>
> After about 60 miles of driving, the whine was certainly still 
> evident. A bit quieter, but not significantly so. Following 
> suggestions from others, I then added Nulon G70 to the Penrite 140 
> Gear Oil in the differential.
>
> I have covered some 1,123 miles since then.
>
> *Conclusion:* The pitch level of the diff whine is lower, more like a 
> humming; it is now easier to live with at and above 60mph. The most 
> improvement occurred after adding the Nulon G70. I will continue to 
> run this combination in the differential for now. Knowing the result, 
> I would do it again.
>
> As has been pointed out by others, the real fix is to have the 
> differential adjusted or repaired by a differential specialist.
> Hope that answers your question.
> Regards, Graham Wilkie.
> Moruya, Australia.
>
>

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  <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    Thanks for the detailed feedback Graham.   FWIW, there's been a
    discussion on this topic on the Forum.  There's at least some
    agreement that the 3.45 diffs may be a bit noisier than the 3.91s,
    even when set up by a qualified shop (it seems to be hit-or-miss). 
    Noisy diffs have been a problem for many years; when my dad was a
    service rep at Ford they got lots of complaints about noisy diffs in
    early Mustangs.  My 2008 Mustang has a noisy diff--how's that for
    respecting heritage?<br>
    <br>
    I still have the 3.91 that came out of my BJ8 at about 120K miles. 
    The wear pattern was barely discernible but flawless.  It made no
    noise that I ever noticed.  I suspect the only advantage to a
    heavier fluid is that it muffles the noise a bit more. <br>
    <br>
    Merry Christmas to all.<br>
    <br>
    Bob<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/23/2015 7:47 PM, Graham Wilkie
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite="mid:[email-masked]"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div dir="ltr">
          <style><!--
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          <div dir="ltr">Hi Doug,<br>
             <br>
            I received several responses; the conventional wisdom was to
            remove the differential and have a specialist carry out the
            work. That is on my to-do list.<br>
             <br>
            Until I get to that item on my list, here is what I have
            done. I drained the Penrite 80W 90 mineral gear oil, and
            replaced it with Penrite 140 Gear Oil - Premium Mineral.
            This product claims "for quieting noisy differentials, where
            the noise is due to wear, thus prolonging the life of the
            unit". <br>
             <br>
            After about 60 miles of driving, the whine was certainly
            still evident. A bit quieter, but not significantly
            so. Following suggestions from others, I then added Nulon
            G70 to the Penrite 140 Gear Oil in the differential.<br>
             <br>
            I have covered some 1,123 miles since then. <br>
             <br>
            <strong>Conclusion:</strong> The pitch level of the diff
            whine is lower, more like a humming; it is now easier to
            live with at and above 60mph. The most improvement
            occurred after adding the Nulon G70. I will continue to run
            this combination in the differential for now. Knowing the
            result, I would do it again. <br>
             <br>
            As has been pointed out by others, the real fix is to have
            the differential adjusted or repaired by a differential
            specialist.</div>
          <div dir="ltr"> </div>
          <div dir="ltr">Hope that answers your question.</div>
          <div dir="ltr"> </div>
          <div dir="ltr">Regards, Graham Wilkie.</div>
          <div dir="ltr">Moruya, Australia. <br>
             <br>
          </div>
          <br>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
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