Subject: [Fot] in search of

From: ralph hansen via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2025 14:32:29 +0000 (UTC)

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hello everyone,
I'm looking for a leaf spring manufacturer to make up about 25 single leaf =
springs. Preferably close to Milwaukee but just about anywhere might work. =
Must do good work and be reliable. These springs would be for the TR camber=
 compensators. Doing some shopping around since one I've used has doubled t=
he cost in 5 years. Thanks in advance.
Cheers,Ralph=C2=A0
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<html><head></head><body><div class="yahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">hello everyone,</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">I'm looking for a leaf spring manufacturer to make up about 25 single leaf springs. Preferably close to Milwaukee but just about anywhere might work. Must do good work and be reliable. These springs would be for the TR camber compensators. Doing some shopping around since one I've used has doubled the cost in 5 years. Thanks in advance.</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Cheers,</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Ralph&nbsp;</div></div></body></html>
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_______________________________________________
[email-masked]

http://www.fot-racing.com

Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot

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From: "Barr, Scott via Fot" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2025 14:58:46 +0000

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Try Accurate Alignment & Frame Service in Appleton.  They made a custom spr=
ing for my Spit racer.[Image]

Scott Barr
McCarty Law LLP
(920) 257-2233
________________________________
From: Fot <[email-masked]> on behalf of ralph hansen via Fot <f=
[email-masked]>
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2025 9:32:29 AM
To: FOT Triumph <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Fot] in search of

hello everyone,

Cheers,
Ralph

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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"=
</head>
<body>
<div dir=3D"auto">Try Accurate Alignment &amp; Frame Service in Appleton.&n=
bsp; They made a custom spring for my Spit racer.<img id=3D"82fa7251-b4d7-4=
392-a059-fab1e8a0aa58" src=3D"cid:82fa7251-b4d7-4392-a059-fab1e8a0aa58" alt=
=3D"Image" style=3D"max-width: 100%;">
<div id=3D"br-id-8ba60c21-5c6a-427a-8a6f-f79153a5ede7" dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"ms-outlook-mobile-body-separator-line" dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div id=3D"ms-outlook-mobile-signature" dir=3D"auto">
<div dir=3D"auto">Scott Barr</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">McCarty Law LLP</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">(920) 257-2233</div>
</div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex=3D"-1">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11pt" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> Fot &lt;fot-bounces@a=
utox.team.net&gt; on behalf of ralph hansen via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&=
gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 20, 2025 9:32:29 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> FOT Triumph &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Fot] in search of</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"x_yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica Neue,Helve=
tica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13px">
<div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">hello everyone,</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">I'm looking for a leaf spring manufa=
cturer to make up about 25 single leaf springs. Preferably close to Milwauk=
ee but just about anywhere might work. Must do good work and be reliable. T=
hese springs would be for the TR camber
 compensators. Doing some shopping around since one I've used has doubled t=
he cost in 5 years. Thanks in advance.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Cheers,</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Ralph&nbsp;</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: JOE CURRY via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2025 15:02:14 +0000 (UTC)

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 It has been that way for years.=C2=A0 It became impossible for me to marke=
t them at the price that I knew was affordable for most Spitfire owners.=C2=
=A0 Therein lies the rub!
Good luck.
Joe
    On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 07:48:44 AM MST, ralph hansen via Fot <f=
[email-masked]> wrote: =20
=20
 hello everyone,
I'm looking for a leaf spring manufacturer to make up about 25 single leaf =
springs. Preferably close to Milwaukee but just about anywhere might work. =
Must do good work and be reliable. These springs would be for the TR camber=
 compensators. Doing some shopping around since one I've used has doubled t=
he cost in 5 years. Thanks in advance.
Cheers,Ralph=C2=A0_______________________________________________
[email-masked]

net

 =20
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<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"ydpf7e5de68yahoo-style-wrap" style=
=3D"font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px=
;"><div></div>
        <div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">It has been that way for yea=
rs.&nbsp; It became impossible for me to market them at the price that I kn=
ew was affordable for most Spitfire owners.&nbsp; Therein lies the rub!</di=
v><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-se=
tdir=3D"false">Good luck.</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br><=
/div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Joe</div><div><br></div>
       =20
        </div><div id=3D"yahoo_quoted_2700663346" class=3D"yahoo_quoted">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
                <div>
                        On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 07:48:44 AM MST, ral=
ph hansen via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                    </div>
                    <div><br></div>
                    <div><br></div>
               =20
               =20
                <div><div id=3D"yiv0527876111"><div><div style=3D"font-fami=
ly:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;" class=3D"y=
iv0527876111yahoo-style-wrap"><div dir=3D"ltr">hello everyone,</div><div di=
r=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">I'm looking for a leaf spring manufact=
urer to make up about 25 single leaf springs. Preferably close to Milwaukee=
 but just about anywhere might work. Must do good work and be reliable. The=
se springs would be for the TR camber compensators. Doing some shopping aro=
und since one I've used has doubled the cost in 5 years. Thanks in advance.=
</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Cheers,</div><div dir=3D"=
ltr">Ralph&nbsp;</div></div></div></div>___________________________________=
____________<br><a ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" href=3D"mailto:fot=
@autox.team.net">[email-masked]</a><br><br><a href=3D"http://www.fot-ra=
cing.com" target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br><br>Donate: <a=
 href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team=
.net/donate.html</a><br>Archive: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" =
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a href=3D"http://www.t=
eam.net/pipermail/fot" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot<=
/a><br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options=
/fot/[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/opti=
ons/fot/[email-masked]</a><br><br><br></div>
            </div>
        </div></body></html>
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From: "rocky spitfire4.com via Fot" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2025 17:51:13 +0000

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From: Ponostyle via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2025 09:07:34 -1000

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For what it's worth, Benz Sping in Portland, OR will make any spring you =
want. It used to be silly cheap compared to the alternatives, but I =
haven=E2=80=99t used them for decades. I had front springs for Peyote =
that ranged in 20 pound increments. I=E2=80=99ve still got a bunch of =
them though I gave the current caretaker most of my parts. I also had =
rear leaf springs made one, easy folks to work with, even for dinky jobs =
like mine.=20

> On Mar 20, 2025, at 7:51=E2=80=AFAM, rocky spitfire4.com via Fot =
<[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> Are we talking the camber compensator for the Spitfire that has a =
middle mounting bolted to the bottom three bolts of the differential?
> =20
> The scariest moment I ever had in my 1964 Spitfire, back when it was =
my daily driver (ca. 1967), was when my diff locked up as I was passing =
a semi on I-35 in Kansas City. I barely got the car over to the shoulder =
without getting run over, then spent six hours on the roadside waiting =
for AAA to send me a tow truck! (That=E2=80=99s when I decided not to =
renew my AAA membership, but I digress).
> =20
> Turned out the middle mounting on that camber compensator had broken =
off the sections on the two end bolts because of the constant flexing on =
it, so only the middle bolt was holding it in place. The constant action =
on that one bolt eventually made the round bolt hole oval shaped, and =
all the diff fluid drained out. A dry diff really doesn=E2=80=99t work =
all that well.
> =20
> I drove the car without a CC for a few years, then gave it to my =
brother (who=E2=80=99s a mechanic) to turn into a race car, He came up =
with a solution which I understand originated with Volkswagen owners to =
address the Beetle=E2=80=99s swing-axle issues.=20
> =20
> He tied a cable to the bottom shock mount, ran it up to a pulley =
attached to the top shock mount, then across to the same setup on the =
other side.
> The biggest modification was to take that big bolt at the top of the =
shock, drill and tap it through the head to take a shouldered 1/4-inch =
bolt which becomes the hub for the pulley. Not shown, a simple retainer =
over the top of the pulley to prevent the cable from jumping off.=20
> =20
> He did that in 1971. He raced the car for three years, then I got it =
back and raced and autocrossed it through 2011. In all that time, 40 =
years, I replaced the cable just once.
> =20
> Since it was going on a race car, we jacked the rear suspension as =
high as we could (filled the trunk with heavy stuff while the car was on =
jackstands, then sat someone in the trunk while we attached the cable) =
which both lowered the car and stiffened the ride. I later bought =
another =E2=80=9964 Spit as a street car and did the same trick, but let =
the suspension droop more so it was softer for street use (I also =
didn=E2=80=99t autocross that car). On that one I found a pulley that =
came with a shroud, didn=E2=80=99t need the retainer.
> =20
> It works as a camber compensator without that evil spring. The swing =
axle doesn=E2=80=99t swing any more. Both rear wheels remain constant =
with each other.
> =20
> I=E2=80=99ve given this design to several other drivers. One came up =
with a clever trick =E2=80=93 he cut an opening in the diff tunnel under =
the gas tank (which also provides nice access to the bolts holding the =
spring to the top of the diff). Then he installed a turnbuckle in the =
cable at that location. Adjustable suspension! Cheap and easy. And IMHO =
safer.
> =20
> =E2=80=94Rocky Entriken
> =20
> =20
> =20
> From: Fot <[email-masked] =
> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2025 10:02 AM
> Subject: Re: [Fot] in search of
> =20
> It has been that way for years.  It became impossible for me to market =
them at the price that I knew was affordable for most Spitfire owners.  =
Therein lies the rub!
> =20
> Good luck.
> =20
> Joe
> =20
> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 07:48:44 AM MST, ralph hansen via Fot =
> =20
> =20
> hello everyone,
> =20
> I'm looking for a leaf spring manufacturer to make up about 25 single =
leaf springs. Preferably close to Milwaukee but just about anywhere =
might work. Must do good work and be reliable. These springs would be =
for the TR camber compensators. Doing some shopping around since one =
I've used has doubled the cost in 5 years. Thanks in advance.
> Ralph=20
> http://www.fot-racing.com <http://www.fot-racing.com/>
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive =
http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
> http://www.fot-racing.com <http://www.fot-racing.com/>
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive =
http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]

--Apple-Mail=_D2D5DD76-5890-45B1-A726-65935D8C18A0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">For what it's =
worth, Benz Sping in Portland, OR will make any spring you want. It used =
to be silly cheap compared to the alternatives, but I haven=E2=80=99t =
used them for decades. I had front springs for Peyote that ranged in 20 =
pound increments. I=E2=80=99ve still got a bunch of them though I gave =
the current caretaker most of my parts. I also had rear leaf springs =
made one, easy folks to work with, even for dinky jobs like =
mine.&nbsp;<br id=3D"lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage"><div><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div>On Mar 20, 2025, at 7:51=E2=80=AFAM, rocky =
spitfire4.com via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div><meta charset=3D"UTF-8"><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size: 18px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;">Are we =
talking the camber compensator for the Spitfire that has a middle =
mounting bolted to the bottom three bolts of the =
differential?<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;">The scariest moment I ever =
had in my 1964 Spitfire, back when it was my daily driver (ca. 1967), =
was when my diff locked up as I was passing a semi on I-35 in Kansas =
City. I barely got the car over to the shoulder without getting run =
over, then spent six hours on the roadside waiting for AAA to send me a =
tow truck! (That=E2=80=99s when I decided not to renew my AAA =
membership, but I digress).<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;">Turned out the middle =
mounting on that camber compensator had broken off the sections on the =
two end bolts because of the constant flexing on it, so only the middle =
bolt was holding it in place. The constant action on that one bolt =
eventually made the round bolt hole oval shaped, and all the diff fluid =
drained out. A dry diff really doesn=E2=80=99t work all that =
well.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;">I drove the car without a CC for a few years, =
then gave it to my brother (who=E2=80=99s a mechanic) to turn into a =
race car, He came up with a solution which I understand originated with =
Volkswagen owners to address the Beetle=E2=80=99s swing-axle =
issues.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;">He tied a cable to the bottom shock mount, =
ran it up to a pulley attached to the top shock mount, then across to =
the same setup on the other side.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, =
sans-serif;"><span =
id=3D"cid:[email-masked]">&lt;image001.jpg&gt;</span><span=
 style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;">The biggest modification was to take that big =
bolt at the top of the shock, drill and tap it through the head to take =
a shouldered 1/4-inch bolt which becomes the hub for the pulley. Not =
shown, a simple retainer over the top of the pulley to prevent the cable =
from jumping off.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;">He did that in 1971. He raced the car for =
three years, then I got it back and raced and autocrossed it through =
2011. In all that time, 40 years, I replaced the cable just =
once.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;">Since it was going on a race car, we jacked =
the rear suspension as high as we could (filled the trunk with heavy =
stuff while the car was on jackstands, then sat someone in the trunk =
while we attached the cable) which both lowered the car and stiffened =
the ride. I later bought another =E2=80=9964 Spit as a street car and =
did the same trick, but let the suspension droop more so it was softer =
for street use (I also didn=E2=80=99t autocross that car). On that one I =
found a pulley that came with a shroud, didn=E2=80=99t need the =
retainer.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;">It works as a camber compensator without that =
evil spring. The swing axle doesn=E2=80=99t swing any more. Both rear =
wheels remain constant with each other.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;">I=E2=80=99ve given this design to several =
other drivers. One came up with a clever trick =E2=80=93 he cut an =
opening in the diff tunnel under the gas tank (which also provides nice =
access to the bolts holding the spring to the top of the diff). Then he =
installed a turnbuckle in the cable at that location. Adjustable =
suspension! Cheap and easy. And IMHO safer.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;">=E2=80=94Rocky =
Entriken<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div><div style=3D"border-width: =
1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(225, =
225, 225) currentcolor currentcolor; border-image: none; padding: 3pt =
0in 0in;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
Aptos, sans-serif;"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Fot &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline;">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b>On Behalf Of<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>JOE CURRY via =
Fot<br><b>Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Thursday, March 20, 2025 =
10:02 AM<br><b>To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>FOT Triumph &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline;">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; ralph hansen =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: =
underline;">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Fot] in search =
of<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, =
sans-serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div><div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">It has been that way for =
years.&nbsp; It became impossible for me to market them at the price =
that I knew was affordable for most Spitfire owners.&nbsp; Therein lies =
the rub!<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">Good =
luck.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif;">Joe<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div></div><div =
id=3D"yahoo_quoted_2700663346"><div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(38, 40, 42);">On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 07:48:44 AM MST, ralph =
hansen via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" style=3D"color: =
blue; text-decoration: underline;">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(38, 40, 42);"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(38, 40, =
42);"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
id=3D"yiv0527876111"><div><div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(38, 40, 42);">hello everyone,<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(38, 40, =
42);"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(38, 40, 42);">I'm looking for a leaf spring manufacturer to make up =
about 25 single leaf springs. Preferably close to Milwaukee but just =
about anywhere might work. Must do good work and be reliable. These =
springs would be for the TR camber compensators. Doing some shopping =
around since one I've used has doubled the cost in 5 years. Thanks in =
advance.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(38, 40, 42);"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(38, 40, =
42);">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(38, 40, =
42);">Ralph&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div></div></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(38, 40, =
42);">_______________________________________________<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline;">[email-masked]</a><br><br><a =
href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com/" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: =
blue; text-decoration: =
underline;">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br><br>Donate:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color:=
 blue; text-decoration: =
underline;">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Archive:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: =
blue; text-decoration: =
underline;">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot" target=3D"_blank" =
style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline;">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a><br>Unsubscribe/Manage:<s=
pan class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline;">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a>=
<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: TimesNewRomanPSMT; =
font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">_______________________________________________</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: TimesNewRomanPSMT; =
font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;"><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; font-family: TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size: =
18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;">[email-masked]</a><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com/" =
style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; font-family: =
TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: TimesNewRomanPSMT; =
font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;"><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline =
!important;">Donate:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; font-family: TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size: =
18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size: 18px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: TimesNewRomanPSMT; =
font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;">Archive:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; font-family: TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size: =
18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size: 18px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; font-family: TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size: =
18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a><br style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size: 18px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: TimesNewRomanPSMT; =
font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;">Unsubscribe/Manage:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]" =
style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; font-family: =
TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a></di=
v></blockquote></div><br></body></html>=

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From: "Barr, Scott via Fot" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2025 19:30:01 +0000

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From: "rocky spitfire4.com via Fot" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2025 20:04:34 +0000

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From: "Barr, Scott via Fot" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2025 21:12:55 +0000

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From: Anthony Parker via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2025 22:54:08 +0000

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

This is a very interesting setup and discussion.

Formula VEEs, especially the later "zero roll" designs have elastomeric puc=
ks in the droop limiters to ease the shock on rebound. Might not be worth t=
he complexity in the Spitfire.

I would love to see a back to back experiment between this setup and one wi=
th very short dampers which limited the droop to the same degree as the cab=
le system we're discussing. I think a large question now is, with the stati=
c camber of this setup, whether jacking and tuck-under still prevail, or is=
 cornering squat possible? If cornering squat is possible, then the cable a=
nd inside spring are exacerbating it, but this may be ok if the body rolls =
enough.

This pre-loaded spring setup does not result in "infinite rate" when reachi=
ng the travel limit or droop, but in extension or downward wheel travel, do=
es result in 0 lbf change per 0 inches of deflection.  This, however, does =
not mean that the rear tire contact patch sees zero force from the ground. =
 Here, steady state breaking potential for the rear axle will be limited by=
 contact patch shape/size and forward weight transfer. Certainly, droop lim=
iting to zero degrees camber will result in the best contact patch and may =
reduce forward weight transfer because the C.G. may remain lower in this se=
tup than one with the rear spring helping to lift the rear of the car.

________________________________
From: Fot <[email-masked]> on behalf of Barr, Scott via Fot <fo=
[email-masked]>
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2025 5:12 PM
To: rocky spitfire4.com <[email-masked]>; JOE CURRY <[email-masked]>=
; FOT Triumph <[email-masked]>; ralph hansen <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Fot] in search of

What I meant by =93infinite spring rate=94 is, based on my understanding of=
 the system you=92re describing, the condition when both rear axles droop a=
nd hit the end of the cable =93leash=94.  As I understand it, you essential=
ly had both rear axles hanging from a single cable that slid from side to s=
ide under cornering loads but, under braking, with both axles traveling dow=
nward at the same time, would be arrested by hitting the end of that cable =
=93leash=94.  Am I understanding the setup correctly?  I would think that w=
ould be similar to having a leaf spring hit the bump stop and going from wh=
atever the spring rate is to *no* spring, or =93infinite spring rate=94.

I asked because I considered creating a similar system once for my Spit rac=
er, as well as for my dad=92s swing axle GT6 racer, but wanted either to ad=
d a spring in the middle of the cable or to run the cable over a spring-loa=
ded central pully of some sort =96 just to ease the transition from normal =
spring operation to full leash arrest.   Maybe that wouldn=92t be necessary=
?

Scott (B.)

From: rocky spitfire4.com <[email-masked]>
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2025 3:05 PM
To: Barr, Scott <[email-masked]>; JOE CURRY <[email-masked]>; FOT =
Triumph <[email-masked]>; ralph hansen <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [Fot] in search of

Yes, it caused no trouble for me. Neither road racing nor autocrossing. Ess=
entially no droop. And FWIW, on numerous occasions when other people have d=
riven my car, they often commented on how well it handled. Very neutral. I =
never did the turnbuckle thing on mine

Originally it had a limited slip diff, but I finally wore that thing out. R=
eplaced with a welded-up rear. It was even better, tighter. (But harder to =
push around in the paddock.) I usually had a 4:55, best for autocrossing an=
d most MiDiv tracks. Originally it had a 4:11 but I haven=92t used that for=
 decades. Borrowed a 3:89 to do the 2011 Runoffs at Road America.

Not sure what you mean by =93infinite spring rate.=94 The only spring is th=
e transverse springs over the top of the diff (and I still had the stock sp=
ring!). When I went to do a straight-line stop, it stopped. In a straight l=
ine. It would trail brake nicely and predictably, with both tires on the gr=
ound. As long as I didn=92t run out of talent and screw up the braking, ups=
etting the balance.

--Rocky

Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2025 2:30 PM
lto:[email-masked]>>
Subject: RE: [Fot] in search of

It must work great or you wouldn=92t have used it so successfully for 40 ye=
ars, but=85when under straight line braking, when the droop get arrested by=
 the cable, doesn=92t it go from whatever the spring=92s rate is instantly =
to infinite spring rate?  Am I understanding that correctly?  And that chan=
ge caused no trouble for you?

Scott (B.)

n Behalf Of rocky spitfire4.com via Fot
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2025 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] in search of

Are we talking the camber compensator for the Spitfire that has a middle mo=
unting bolted to the bottom three bolts of the differential?

The scariest moment I ever had in my 1964 Spitfire, back when it was my dai=
ly driver (ca. 1967), was when my diff locked up as I was passing a semi on=
 I-35 in Kansas City. I barely got the car over to the shoulder without get=
ting run over, then spent six hours on the roadside waiting for AAA to send=
 me a tow truck! (That=92s when I decided not to renew my AAA membership, b=
ut I digress).

Turned out the middle mounting on that camber compensator had broken off th=
e sections on the two end bolts because of the constant flexing on it, so o=
nly the middle bolt was holding it in place. The constant action on that on=
e bolt eventually made the round bolt hole oval shaped, and all the diff fl=
uid drained out. A dry diff really doesn=92t work all that well.

I drove the car without a CC for a few years, then gave it to my brother (w=
ho=92s a mechanic) to turn into a race car, He came up with a solution whic=
h I understand originated with Volkswagen owners to address the Beetle=92s =
swing-axle issues.

He tied a cable to the bottom shock mount, ran it up to a pulley attached t=
o the top shock mount, then across to the same setup on the other side.

[A diagram of a shock bolt  AI-generated content may be incorrect.]

The biggest modification was to take that big bolt at the top of the shock,=
 drill and tap it through the head to take a shouldered 1/4-inch bolt which=
 becomes the hub for the pulley. Not shown, a simple retainer over the top =
of the pulley to prevent the cable from jumping off.

He did that in 1971. He raced the car for three years, then I got it back a=
nd raced and autocrossed it through 2011. In all that time, 40 years, I rep=
laced the cable just once.

Since it was going on a race car, we jacked the rear suspension as high as =
we could (filled the trunk with heavy stuff while the car was on jackstands=
, then sat someone in the trunk while we attached the cable) which both low=
ered the car and stiffened the ride. I later bought another =9264 Spit as a=
 street car and did the same trick, but let the suspension droop more so it=
 was softer for street use (I also didn=92t autocross that car). On that on=
e I found a pulley that came with a shroud, didn=92t need the retainer.

It works as a camber compensator without that evil spring. The swing axle d=
oesn=92t swing any more. Both rear wheels remain constant with each other.

I=92ve given this design to several other drivers. One came up with a cleve=
r trick =96 he cut an opening in the diff tunnel under the gas tank (which =
also provides nice access to the bolts holding the spring to the top of the=
 diff). Then he installed a turnbuckle in the cable at that location. Adjus=
table suspension! Cheap and easy. And IMHO safer.

=97Rocky Entriken

n Behalf Of JOE CURRY via Fot
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2025 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] in search of

It has been that way for years.  It became impossible for me to market them=
 at the price that I knew was affordable for most Spitfire owners.  Therein=
 lies the rub!

Good luck.

Joe

On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 07:48:44 AM MST, ralph hansen via Fot <fot@a=

hello everyone,

Cheers,

Ralph

--_000_MN0PR84MB3867B29BA266F481B92FDBC8D7D82MN0PR84MB3867NAMP_
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
<style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bo=
ttom:0;} </style>
</head>
<body dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, san=
s-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
This is a very interesting setup and discussion.</div>
<div class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, san=
s-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, san=
s-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Formula VEEs, especially the later &quot;zero roll&quot; designs have elast=
omeric pucks in the droop limiters to ease the shock on rebound. Might not =
be worth the complexity in the Spitfire.</div>
<div class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, san=
s-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, san=
s-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
I would love to see a back to back experiment between this setup and one wi=
th very short dampers which limited the droop to the same degree as the cab=
le system we're discussing. I think a large question now is, with the stati=
c camber of this setup, whether&nbsp;jacking
 and tuck-under still prevail, or is cornering squat possible? If cornering=
 squat is possible, then the cable and inside spring are exacerbating it, b=
ut this may be ok if the body rolls enough.</div>
<div class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, san=
s-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, san=
s-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
This pre-loaded spring setup does not result in &quot;infinite rate&quot; w=
hen reaching the travel limit or droop, but in extension or downward wheel =
travel, does result in 0 lbf change per 0 inches of deflection.&nbsp; This,=
 however, does not mean that the rear tire contact
 patch sees zero force from the ground.&nbsp; Here, steady state breaking p=
otential for the rear axle will be limited by contact patch shape/size and =
forward weight transfer. Certainly, droop limiting to zero degrees camber w=
ill result in the best contact patch
 and may reduce forward weight transfer because the C.G. may remain lower i=
n this setup than one with the rear spring helping to lift the rear of the =
car.</div>
<div class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, san=
s-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, san=
s-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, san=
s-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div id=3D"appendonsend"></div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex=3D"-1">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11pt" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> Fot &lt;fot-bounces@a=
utox.team.net&gt; on behalf of Barr, Scott via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&g=
t;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 20, 2025 5:12 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> rocky spitfire4.com &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; JOE CURRY &lt;s=
[email-masked]&gt;; FOT Triumph &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; ralph hansen &=
lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] in search of</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
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<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-wrap:break=
-word">
<div class=3D"x_WordSection1">
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">What I meant by =
=93infinite spring rate=94 is, based on my understanding of the system you=
=92re describing, the condition when both rear axles droop and hit the end =
of the cable =93leash=94.&nbsp; As I understand it, you
 essentially had both rear axles hanging from a single cable that slid from=
 side to side under cornering loads but, under braking, with both axles tra=
veling downward at the same time, would be arrested by hitting the end of t=
hat cable =93leash=94.&nbsp; Am I understanding
 the setup correctly?&nbsp; I would think that would be similar to having a=
 leaf spring hit the bump stop and going from whatever the spring rate is t=
o *<b>no</b>* spring, or =93infinite spring rate=94.</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">I asked because I=
 considered creating a similar system once for my Spit racer, as well as fo=
r my dad=92s swing axle GT6 racer, but wanted either to add a spring in the=
 middle of the cable or to run the cable
 over a spring-loaded central pully of some sort =96 just to ease the trans=
ition from normal spring operation to full leash arrest.&nbsp;&nbsp; Maybe =
that wouldn=92t be necessary?</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Scott (B.)</span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none; border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0i=
n 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt; font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> rocky spitfire4.com &lt;ro=
[email-masked]&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 20, 2025 3:05 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Barr, Scott &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; JOE CURRY &lt;spitlis=
[email-masked]&gt;; FOT Triumph &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; ralph hansen &lt;qui=
[email-masked]&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Fot] in search of</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Yes, it caused no=
 trouble for me. Neither road racing nor autocrossing. Essentially no droop=
. And FWIW, on numerous occasions when other people have driven my car, the=
y often commented on how well it handled.
 Very neutral. I never did the turnbuckle thing on mine</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Originally it had=
 a limited slip diff, but I finally wore that thing out. Replaced with a we=
lded-up rear. It was even better, tighter. (But harder to push around in th=
e paddock.) I usually had a 4:55, best
 for autocrossing and most MiDiv tracks. Originally it had a 4:11 but I hav=
en=92t used that for decades. Borrowed a 3:89 to do the 2011 Runoffs at Roa=
d America.
</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Not sure what you=
 mean by =93infinite spring rate.=94 The only spring is the transverse spri=
ngs over the top of the diff (and I still had the stock spring!). When I we=
nt to do a straight-line stop, it stopped.
 In a straight line. It would trail brake nicely and predictably, with both=
 tires on the ground. As long as I didn=92t run out of talent and screw up =
the braking, upsetting the balance.
</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">--Rocky</span></p=
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none; border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0i=
n 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt; font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Barr, Scott &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 20, 2025 2:30 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> rocky spitfire4.com &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">r=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;; JOE CURRY &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
t">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; FOT Triumph &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
am.net">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; ralph hansen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:quik=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Fot] in search of</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">It must work grea=
t or you wouldn=92t have used it so successfully for 40 years, but=85when u=
nder straight line braking, when the droop get arrested by the cable, doesn=
=92t it go from whatever the spring=92s rate
 is instantly to infinite spring rate?&nbsp; Am I understanding that correc=
tly?&nbsp; And that change caused no trouble for you?</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Scott (B.)</span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none; border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0i=
n 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt; font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>rocky spitfire4.com via Fot<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 20, 2025 12:51 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> JOE CURRY &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
et</a>&gt;; FOT Triumph &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">fot@autox=
.team.net</a>&gt;; ralph hansen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">qui=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] in search of</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Are we talking th=
e camber compensator for the Spitfire that has a middle mounting bolted to =
the bottom three bolts of the differential?</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">The scariest mome=
nt I ever had in my 1964 Spitfire, back when it was my daily driver (ca. 19=
67), was when my diff locked up as I was passing a semi on I-35 in Kansas C=
ity. I barely got the car over to the
 shoulder without getting run over, then spent six hours on the roadside wa=
iting for AAA to send me a tow truck! (That=92s when I decided not to renew=
 my AAA membership, but I digress).</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Turned out the mi=
ddle mounting on that camber compensator had broken off the sections on the=
 two end bolts because of the constant flexing on it, so only the middle bo=
lt was holding it in place. The constant
 action on that one bolt eventually made the round bolt hole oval shaped, a=
nd all the diff fluid drained out. A dry diff really doesn=92t work all tha=
t well.
</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">I drove the car w=
ithout a CC for a few years, then gave it to my brother (who=92s a mechanic=
) to turn into a race car, He came up with a solution which I understand or=
iginated with Volkswagen owners to address
 the Beetle=92s swing-axle issues. </span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">He tied a cable t=
o the bottom shock mount, ran it up to a pulley attached to the top shock m=
ount, then across to the same setup on the other side.</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><img border=3D"0" width=3D"218" height=3D"178" id=
=3D"x_Picture_x0020_1" alt=3D"A diagram of a shock bolt=0A=
=0A=
AI-generated content may be incorrect." style=3D"width:2.2708in; height:1.8=
541in" data-outlook-trace=3D"F:1|T:1" src=3D"cid:[email-masked]=
7B30"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">The biggest modif=
ication was to take that big bolt at the top of the shock, drill and tap it=
 through the head to take a shouldered 1/4-inch bolt which becomes the hub =
for the pulley. Not shown, a simple
 retainer over the top of the pulley to prevent the cable from jumping off.=
 </span>
</p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">He did that in 19=
71. He raced the car for three years, then I got it back and raced and auto=
crossed it through 2011. In all that time, 40 years, I replaced the cable j=
ust once.</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Since it was goin=
g on a race car, we jacked the rear suspension as high as we could (filled =
the trunk with heavy stuff while the car was on jackstands, then sat someon=
e in the trunk while we attached the
 cable) which both lowered the car and stiffened the ride. I later bought a=
nother =9264 Spit as a street car and did the same trick, but let the suspe=
nsion droop more so it was softer for street use (I also didn=92t autocross=
 that car). On that one I found a pulley
 that came with a shroud, didn=92t need the retainer.</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">It works as a cam=
ber compensator without that evil spring. The swing axle doesn=92t swing an=
y more. Both rear wheels remain constant with each other.</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">I=92ve given this=
 design to several other drivers. One came up with a clever trick =96 he cu=
t an opening in the diff tunnel under the gas tank (which also provides nic=
e access to the bolts holding the spring
 to the top of the diff). Then he installed a turnbuckle in the cable at th=
at location. Adjustable suspension! Cheap and easy. And IMHO safer.</span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">=97Rocky Entriken=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none; border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0i=
n 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt; font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>JOE CURRY via Fot<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 20, 2025 10:02 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> FOT Triumph &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">fot@autox.=
team.net</a>&gt;; ralph hansen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">quik=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] in search of</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,s=
ans-serif">It has been that way for years.&nbsp; It became impossible for m=
e to market them at the price that I knew was affordable for most Spitfire =
owners.&nbsp; Therein lies the rub!</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,s=
ans-serif">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,s=
ans-serif">Good luck.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,s=
ans-serif">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,s=
ans-serif">Joe</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,s=
ans-serif">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"x_yahoo_quoted_2700663346">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif; color:#26282A">On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at =
07:48:44 AM MST, ralph hansen via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked].=
net">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif; color:#26282A">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif; color:#26282A">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"x_yiv0527876111">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif; color:#26282A">hello everyone,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif; color:#26282A">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif; color:#26282A">I'm looking for a leaf spring m=
anufacturer to make up about 25 single leaf springs. Preferably close to Mi=
lwaukee but just about anywhere might work. Must
 do good work and be reliable. These springs would be for the TR camber com=
pensators. Doing some shopping around since one I've used has doubled the c=
ost in 5 years. Thanks in advance.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif; color:#26282A">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif; color:#26282A">Cheers,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif; color:#26282A">Ralph&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font=
-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif; color:#26282A">=
_______________________________________________<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-raci=
ng.com</a><br>
<br>
//www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http:/=
/autox.team.net/archive</a>
<a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot" target=3D"_blank">http://www.=
team.net/pipermail/fot</a><br>
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: "rocky spitfire4.com via Fot" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2025 23:17:54 +0000

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From: "Barr, Scott via Fot" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2025 23:33:33 +0000

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<< This pre-loaded spring setup does not result in "infinite rate" when rea=
ching the travel limit or droop, but in extension or downward wheel travel,=
 does result in 0 lbf change per 0 inches of deflection.   >>

Yes, that might be a better way of putting it.  This is the other side of t=
he coin from hitting the bump stop.  As the axles droop, there is SOME amou=
nt of spring pressure pushing the tires into the track (or the shoulders of=
 the tires, possibly, depending on how long your cable is).  But when you h=
it the end of the "leash", there is suddenly NO spring pressure.  I was won=
dering if that sudden change from some to none would upset the car at all. =
 Evidently not.

Rocky must be a very smooth driver  :-)

Scott (B.)

From: Fot <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of Anthony Parker via Fot
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2025 5:54 PM
To: FOT Triumph <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Fot] in search of

et>>

What I meant by "infinite spring rate" is, based on my understanding of the=
 system you're describing, the condition when both rear axles droop and hit=
 the end of the cable "leash".  As I understand it, you essentially had bot=
h rear axles hanging from a single cable that slid from side to side under =
cornering loads but, under braking, with both axles traveling downward at t=
he same time, would be arrested by hitting the end of that cable "leash".  =
Am I understanding the setup correctly?  I would think that would be simila=
r to having a leaf spring hit the bump stop and going from whatever the spr=
ing rate is to *no* spring, or "infinite spring rate".

I asked because I considered creating a similar system once for my Spit rac=
er, as well as for my dad's swing axle GT6 racer, but wanted either to add =
a spring in the middle of the cable or to run the cable over a spring-loade=
d central pully of some sort - just to ease the transition from normal spri=
ng operation to full leash arrest.   Maybe that wouldn't be necessary?

Scott (B.)

[email-masked]>>

Originally it had a limited slip diff, but I finally wore that thing out. R=
eplaced with a welded-up rear. It was even better, tighter. (But harder to =
push around in the paddock.) I usually had a 4:55, best for autocrossing an=
d most MiDiv tracks. Originally it had a 4:11 but I haven't used that for d=
ecades. Borrowed a 3:89 to do the 2011 Runoffs at Road America.

Not sure what you mean by "infinite spring rate." The only spring is the tr=
ansverse springs over the top of the diff (and I still had the stock spring=
!). When I went to do a straight-line stop, it stopped. In a straight line.=
 It would trail brake nicely and predictably, with both tires on the ground=
. As long as I didn't run out of talent and screw up the braking, upsetting=
 the balance.

--Rocky

It must work great or you wouldn't have used it so successfully for 40 year=
s, but...when under straight line braking, when the droop get arrested by t=
he cable, doesn't it go from whatever the spring's rate is instantly to inf=
inite spring rate?  Am I understanding that correctly?  And that change cau=
sed no trouble for you?

Scott (B.)

 me a tow truck! (That's when I decided not to renew my AAA membership, but=
 I digress).

uid drained out. A dry diff really doesn't work all that well.

I drove the car without a CC for a few years, then gave it to my brother (w=
ho's a mechanic) to turn into a race car, He came up with a solution which =
I understand originated with Volkswagen owners to address the Beetle's swin=
g-axle issues.

Since it was going on a race car, we jacked the rear suspension as high as =
we could (filled the trunk with heavy stuff while the car was on jackstands=
, then sat someone in the trunk while we attached the cable) which both low=
ered the car and stiffened the ride. I later bought another '64 Spit as a s=
treet car and did the same trick, but let the suspension droop more so it w=
as softer for street use (I also didn't autocross that car). On that one I =
found a pulley that came with a shroud, didn't need the retainer.

It works as a camber compensator without that evil spring. The swing axle d=
oesn't swing any more. Both rear wheels remain constant with each other.

I've given this design to several other drivers. One came up with a clever =
trick - he cut an opening in the diff tunnel under the gas tank (which also=
 provides nice access to the bolts holding the spring to the top of the dif=
f). Then he installed a turnbuckle in the cable at that location. Adjustabl=
e suspension! Cheap and easy. And IMHO safer.

-Rocky Entriken

Good luck.

Joe

hello everyone,

Cheers,

Ralph

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&lt;&lt; </span><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">This pr=
e-loaded spring setup does not result in &quot;infinite rate&quot; when rea=
ching the travel limit or droop, but in extension or downward wheel
 travel, does result in 0 lbf change per 0 inches of deflection.&nbsp; </sp=
an><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Yes, that might be =
a better way of putting it.&nbsp; This is the other side of the coin from h=
itting the bump stop.&nbsp; As the axles droop, there is SOME amount of spr=
ing pressure pushing the tires into the track
 (or the shoulders of the tires, possibly, depending on how long your cable=
 is).&nbsp; But when you hit the end of the &#8220;leash&#8221;, there is s=
uddenly NO spring pressure.&nbsp; I was wondering if that sudden change fro=
m some to none would upset the car at all.&nbsp; Evidently
 not.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Rocky must be a ver=
y smooth driver&nbsp; :-)
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Scott (B.)<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Fot &lt;[email-masked]=
.net&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Anthony Parker via Fot<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 20, 2025 5:54 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> FOT Triumph &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] in search of<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black">This is a very interesting setup and discussion.<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black">Formula VEEs, especially the later &quot;zero roll&quot;=
 designs have elastomeric pucks in the droop limiters to ease the shock on =
rebound. Might not be worth the complexity in the Spitfire.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black">I would love to see a back to back experiment between th=
is setup and one with very short dampers which limited the droop to the sam=
e degree as the cable system we're discussing.
 I think a large question now is, with the static camber of this setup, whe=
ther&nbsp;jacking and tuck-under still prevail, or is cornering squat possi=
ble? If cornering squat is possible, then the cable and inside spring are e=
xacerbating it, but this may be ok if
 the body rolls enough.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black">This pre-loaded spring setup does not result in &quot;in=
finite rate&quot; when reaching the travel limit or droop, but in extension=
 or downward wheel travel, does result in 0 lbf change per
 0 inches of deflection.&nbsp; This, however, does not mean that the rear t=
ire contact patch sees zero force from the ground.&nbsp; Here, steady state=
 breaking potential for the rear axle will be limited by contact patch shap=
e/size and forward weight transfer. Certainly,
 droop limiting to zero degrees camber will result in the best contact patc=
h and may reduce forward weight transfer because the C.G. may remain lower =
in this setup than one with the rear spring helping to lift the rear of the=
 car.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"98%" align=3D"center">
</div>
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"> Fot &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]<=
/a>&gt;
 on behalf of Barr, Scott via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
>[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 20, 2025 5:12 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> rocky spitfire4.com &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">r=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;; JOE CURRY &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
t">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; FOT Triumph &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
am.net">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; ralph hansen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:quik=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] in search of</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">What I meant by &#=
8220;infinite spring rate&#8221; is, based on my understanding of the syste=
m you&#8217;re describing, the condition when both rear axles droop and hit=
 the end of the cable &#8220;leash&#8221;.&nbsp; As I understand it, you
 essentially had both rear axles hanging from a single cable that slid from=
 side to side under cornering loads but, under braking, with both axles tra=
veling downward at the same time, would be arrested by hitting the end of t=
hat cable &#8220;leash&#8221;.&nbsp; Am I understanding
 the setup correctly?&nbsp; I would think that would be similar to having a=
 leaf spring hit the bump stop and going from whatever the spring rate is t=
o *<b>no</b>* spring, or &#8220;infinite spring rate&#8221;.</span><o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">I asked because I =
considered creating a similar system once for my Spit racer, as well as for=
 my dad&#8217;s swing axle GT6 racer, but wanted either to add a spring in =
the middle of the cable or to run the cable
 over a spring-loaded central pully of some sort &#8211; just to ease the t=
ransition from normal spring operation to full leash arrest.&nbsp;&nbsp; Ma=
ybe that wouldn&#8217;t be necessary?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Scott (B.)</span><=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quo=
t;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> rocky spitfire4.com &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 20, 2025 3:05 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Barr, Scott &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">sbarr@M=
cCarty-Law.com</a>&gt;; JOE CURRY &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">s=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;; FOT Triumph &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
et">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; ralph hansen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:quikrx@y=
ahoo.com">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Fot] in search of</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Yes, it caused no =
trouble for me. Neither road racing nor autocrossing. Essentially no droop.=
 And FWIW, on numerous occasions when other people have driven my car, they=
 often commented on how well it handled.
 Very neutral. I never did the turnbuckle thing on mine</span><o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Originally it had =
a limited slip diff, but I finally wore that thing out. Replaced with a wel=
ded-up rear. It was even better, tighter. (But harder to push around in the=
 paddock.) I usually had a 4:55, best
 for autocrossing and most MiDiv tracks. Originally it had a 4:11 but I hav=
en&#8217;t used that for decades. Borrowed a 3:89 to do the 2011 Runoffs at=
 Road America.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Not sure what you =
mean by &#8220;infinite spring rate.&#8221; The only spring is the transver=
se springs over the top of the diff (and I still had the stock spring!). Wh=
en I went to do a straight-line stop, it stopped.
 In a straight line. It would trail brake nicely and predictably, with both=
 tires on the ground. As long as I didn&#8217;t run out of talent and screw=
 up the braking, upsetting the balance.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">--Rocky</span><o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quo=
t;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Barr, Scott &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 20, 2025 2:30 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> rocky spitfire4.com &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">r=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;; JOE CURRY &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
t">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; FOT Triumph &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
am.net">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; ralph hansen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:quik=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Fot] in search of</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">It must work great=
 or you wouldn&#8217;t have used it so successfully for 40 years, but&#8230=
;when under straight line braking, when the droop get arrested by the cable=
, doesn&#8217;t it go from whatever the spring&#8217;s rate
 is instantly to infinite spring rate?&nbsp; Am I understanding that correc=
tly?&nbsp; And that change caused no trouble for you?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Scott (B.)</span><=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quo=
t;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fot=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>rocky spitfire4.com via Fot<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 20, 2025 12:51 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> JOE CURRY &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
et</a>&gt;; FOT Triumph &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">fot@autox=
.team.net</a>&gt;; ralph hansen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">qui=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] in search of</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Are we talking the=
 camber compensator for the Spitfire that has a middle mounting bolted to t=
he bottom three bolts of the differential?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">The scariest momen=
t I ever had in my 1964 Spitfire, back when it was my daily driver (ca. 196=
7), was when my diff locked up as I was passing a semi on I-35 in Kansas Ci=
ty. I barely got the car over to the
 shoulder without getting run over, then spent six hours on the roadside wa=
iting for AAA to send me a tow truck! (That&#8217;s when I decided not to r=
enew my AAA membership, but I digress).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Turned out the mid=
dle mounting on that camber compensator had broken off the sections on the =
two end bolts because of the constant flexing on it, so only the middle bol=
t was holding it in place. The constant
 action on that one bolt eventually made the round bolt hole oval shaped, a=
nd all the diff fluid drained out. A dry diff really doesn&#8217;t work all=
 that well.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">I drove the car wi=
thout a CC for a few years, then gave it to my brother (who&#8217;s a mecha=
nic) to turn into a race car, He came up with a solution which I understand=
 originated with Volkswagen owners to address
 the Beetle&#8217;s swing-axle issues. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">He tied a cable to=
 the bottom shock mount, ran it up to a pulley attached to the top shock mo=
unt, then across to the same setup on the other side.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><img border=3D"0" width=3D"218" height=3D"178" styl=
e=3D"width:2.2708in;height:1.8541in" id=3D"x_Picture_x0020_1" src=3D"cid:im=
[email-masked]" alt=3D"A diagram of a shock bolt=0A=
=0A=
AI-generated content may be incorrect."><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">The biggest modifi=
cation was to take that big bolt at the top of the shock, drill and tap it =
through the head to take a shouldered 1/4-inch bolt which becomes the hub f=
or the pulley. Not shown, a simple retainer
 over the top of the pulley to prevent the cable from jumping off. </span><=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">He did that in 197=
1. He raced the car for three years, then I got it back and raced and autoc=
rossed it through 2011. In all that time, 40 years, I replaced the cable ju=
st once.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Since it was going=
 on a race car, we jacked the rear suspension as high as we could (filled t=
he trunk with heavy stuff while the car was on jackstands, then sat someone=
 in the trunk while we attached the
 cable) which both lowered the car and stiffened the ride. I later bought a=
nother &#8217;64 Spit as a street car and did the same trick, but let the s=
uspension droop more so it was softer for street use (I also didn&#8217;t a=
utocross that car). On that one I found a pulley
 that came with a shroud, didn&#8217;t need the retainer.</span><o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">It works as a camb=
er compensator without that evil spring. The swing axle doesn&#8217;t swing=
 any more. Both rear wheels remain constant with each other.</span><o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">I&#8217;ve given t=
his design to several other drivers. One came up with a clever trick &#8211=
; he cut an opening in the diff tunnel under the gas tank (which also provi=
des nice access to the bolts holding the spring
 to the top of the diff). Then he installed a turnbuckle in the cable at th=
at location. Adjustable suspension! Cheap and easy. And IMHO safer.</span><=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&#8212;Rocky Entri=
ken</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quo=
t;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fot=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>JOE CURRY via Fot<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 20, 2025 10:02 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> FOT Triumph &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">fot@autox.=
team.net</a>&gt;; ralph hansen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">quik=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] in search of</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sa=
ns-serif">It has been that way for years.&nbsp; It became impossible for me=
 to market them at the price that I knew was affordable for most Spitfire o=
wners.&nbsp; Therein lies the rub!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sa=
ns-serif">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sa=
ns-serif">Good luck.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sa=
ns-serif">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sa=
ns-serif">Joe</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sa=
ns-serif">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"x_yahoo_quoted_2700663346">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;H=
elvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#26282A">On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 07:=
48:44 AM MST, ralph hansen via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;H=
elvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#26282A">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;H=
elvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#26282A">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"x_yiv0527876111">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;H=
elvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#26282A">hello everyone,</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;H=
elvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#26282A">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;H=
elvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#26282A">I'm looking for a leaf spring manu=
facturer to make up about 25 single leaf springs. Preferably close to Milwa=
ukee but just about anywhere might work. Must
 do good work and be reliable. These springs would be for the TR camber com=
pensators. Doing some shopping around since one I've used has doubled the c=
ost in 5 years. Thanks in advance.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;H=
elvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#26282A">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;H=
elvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#26282A">Cheers,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;H=
elvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#26282A">Ralph&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#26282A">___=
____________________________________________<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-raci=
ng.com</a><br>
<br>
//www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http:/=
/autox.team.net/archive</a>
<a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot" target=3D"_blank">http://www.=
team.net/pipermail/fot</a><br>
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a></span><o:p><=
/o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
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---

From: "rocky spitfire4.com via Fot" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2025 03:35:05 +0000

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Smooth? Well, sometimes. LOL. Check the attached.

Two pix. Same event (2000 Solo Nationals). Similar corners.

The top one was first run. I came in too hot, braked too late, got the car =
all jacked up, you can get an idea of how much droop it really has when I d=
o it wrong. It's actually one of my favorite photos because it's a very dyn=
amic picture, but it is not an example of "smooth" driving. [?]  But what's=
 not happening is the right rear wheel is not tucking under the car, I'm no=
t cornering on the sidewall (I've done that when the car was still my stree=
t car).

Bottom photo, car is flat , I'm much smoother here, car is leaning but all =
four tires are in contact with the pavement and I'm faster through the corn=
er. I've always felt like with my cable setup essentially the car will rota=
te horizontally on a line from nose to tail, but the body roll is not reall=
y that severe. [?]

Of course, with the welded diff, even with a wheel in the air I still get p=
ower to the down wheel and can power out.

--Rocky

From: Barr, Scott <[email-masked]>
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2025 6:34 PM
To: Anthony Parker <[email-masked]>; FOT Triumph <[email-masked]>=
; rocky spitfire4.com <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [Fot] in search of

Scott (B.)

n Behalf Of Anthony Parker via Fot
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2025 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] in search of

Scott (B.)

--Rocky

Scott (B.)

-Rocky Entriken

Good luck.

Joe

hello everyone,

Cheers,

Ralph

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Smooth? Well, somet=
imes. LOL. Check the attached.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Two pix. Same event=
 (2000 Solo Nationals). Similar corners.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">The top one was fir=
st run. I came in too hot, braked too late, got the car all jacked up, you =
can get an idea of how much droop it really has when I do it wrong. It&#821=
7;s actually one of my favorite photos because
 it&#8217;s a very dynamic picture, but it is not an example of &#8220;smoo=
th&#8221; driving. </span>
<img width=3D"20" height=3D"20" style=3D"width:.2083in;height:.2083in" id=
=3D"_x0000_i1028" src=3D"https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/joypixels/emoji-assets=
@v7.0.0/png/64/1f602.png" alt=3D"&#128514;"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
">&nbsp;But what&#8217;s not happening is the right rear wheel is not
 tucking under the car, I&#8217;m not cornering on the sidewall (I&#8217;ve=
 done that when the car was still my street car).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Bottom photo, car i=
s flat , I&#8217;m much smoother here, car is leaning but all four tires ar=
e in contact with the pavement and I&#8217;m faster through the corner. I&#=
8217;ve always felt like with my cable setup essentially
 the car will rotate horizontally on a line from nose to tail, but the body=
 roll is not really that severe.
</span><img width=3D"20" height=3D"20" style=3D"width:.2083in;height:.2083i=
n" id=3D"_x0000_i1027" src=3D"https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/joypixels/emoji-a=
[email-masked]/png/64/1f60a.png" alt=3D"&#128522;"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Of course, with the=
 welded diff, even with a wheel in the air I still get power to the down wh=
eel and can power out.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">--Rocky<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Barr, Scott &lt;sbarr@McCarty-=
Law.com&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 20, 2025 6:34 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Anthony Parker &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; FOT Triumph &lt;fot=
@autox.team.net&gt;; rocky spitfire4.com &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Fot] in search of<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&lt;&lt; </span><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">This pr=
e-loaded spring setup does not result in &quot;infinite rate&quot; when rea=
ching the travel limit or droop, but in extension or downward wheel
 travel, does result in 0 lbf change per 0 inches of deflection.&nbsp; </sp=
an><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Yes, that might be =
a better way of putting it.&nbsp; This is the other side of the coin from h=
itting the bump stop.&nbsp; As the axles droop, there is SOME amount of spr=
ing pressure pushing the tires into the track
 (or the shoulders of the tires, possibly, depending on how long your cable=
 is).&nbsp; But when you hit the end of the &#8220;leash&#8221;, there is s=
uddenly NO spring pressure.&nbsp; I was wondering if that sudden change fro=
m some to none would upset the car at all.&nbsp; Evidently
 not.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Rocky must be a ver=
y smooth driver&nbsp; :-)
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Scott (B.)<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fot-=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Anthony Parker via Fot<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 20, 2025 5:54 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> FOT Triumph &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">fot@autox.=
team.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] in search of<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black">This is a very interesting setup and discussion.<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black">Formula VEEs, especially the later &quot;zero roll&quot;=
 designs have elastomeric pucks in the droop limiters to ease the shock on =
rebound. Might not be worth the complexity in the Spitfire.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black">I would love to see a back to back experiment between th=
is setup and one with very short dampers which limited the droop to the sam=
e degree as the cable system we're discussing.
 I think a large question now is, with the static camber of this setup, whe=
ther&nbsp;jacking and tuck-under still prevail, or is cornering squat possi=
ble? If cornering squat is possible, then the cable and inside spring are e=
xacerbating it, but this may be ok if
 the body rolls enough.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black">This pre-loaded spring setup does not result in &quot;in=
finite rate&quot; when reaching the travel limit or droop, but in extension=
 or downward wheel travel, does result in 0 lbf change per
 0 inches of deflection.&nbsp; This, however, does not mean that the rear t=
ire contact patch sees zero force from the ground.&nbsp; Here, steady state=
 breaking potential for the rear axle will be limited by contact patch shap=
e/size and forward weight transfer. Certainly,
 droop limiting to zero degrees camber will result in the best contact patc=
h and may reduce forward weight transfer because the C.G. may remain lower =
in this setup than one with the rear spring helping to lift the rear of the=
 car.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"98%" align=3D"center">
</div>
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"> Fot &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]<=
/a>&gt;
 on behalf of Barr, Scott via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
[email-masked]" alt=3D"A diagram of a shock bolt=0A=

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