Subject: Re: [Fot] milling TR4 head for pop-ups

From: JIm Gray via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2025 12:23:09 -0700 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_024E_01DB6423.94844150"

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Yep, I did exactly that plus deshrouded the valves. I took off just =
enough to remove the shrouds at the valves and went with Wiseco pop ups =
made to order through BF&E. Also welded in and reshaped the exhaust =
valve pockets and part of the ports. It spent a lot of time on the flow =
bench.

The head I built before this one eventually cracked due to being milled =
to thin so I went the other way to get compression.

jg

=20

From: Fot <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of Bob Kramer via Fot
Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2025 8:33 AM
To: Fot <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Fot] milling TR4 head for pop-ups

=20

I am finally rebuilding the engine I got with the #67 TR4 many years =
ago. The car came to me with dual SK sidedrafts (Weber rip-offs) and the =
head had some interesting stuff done to it.The intake area on the head =
was carved out to raise the angle of the SK's and the combustion =
chambers were recessed with a flat mill to fit pop up pistons to gain =
compression without much head milling. I know others run pop-up pistons. =
Has anyone else done this?

=20

Bob Kramer

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class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Yep, I did exactly that plus deshrouded the =
valves. I took off just enough to remove the shrouds at the valves and =
went with Wiseco pop ups made to order through BF&amp;E. Also welded in =
and reshaped the exhaust valve pockets and part of the ports. It spent a =
lot of time on the flow bench.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>The head I built =
before this one eventually cracked due to being milled to thin so I went =
the other way to get compression.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>jg<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span><=
/b><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> =
Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>Bob Kramer =
via Fot<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, January 11, 2025 8:33 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> [Fot] milling TR4 head =
for pop-ups<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I =
am finally rebuilding the engine I got with the #67 TR4 many years ago. =
The car came to me with dual SK sidedrafts (Weber rip-offs) and the head =
had some interesting stuff done to it.The intake area on the head was =
carved out to raise the angle of the SK's and the combustion chambers =
were recessed with a flat mill to fit pop up pistons to gain compression =
without much head milling. I know others run pop-up pistons. Has anyone =
else done this?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Bob =
Kramer<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>
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_______________________________________________
[email-masked]

http://www.fot-racing.com

Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot

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From: Greg Blake via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2025 14:35:48 -0600

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WOW!=20
Nice looking setup.=20
Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 11, 2025, at 13:48, JIm Gray via Fot <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> Yep, I did exactly that plus deshrouded the valves. I took off just enough=
 to remove the shrouds at the valves and went with Wiseco pop ups made to or=
der through BF&E. Also welded in and reshaped the exhaust valve pockets and p=
art of the ports. It spent a lot of time on the flow bench.
> The head I built before this one eventually cracked due to being milled to=
 thin so I went the other way to get compression.
> I am finally rebuilding the engine I got with the #67 TR4 many years ago. T=
he car came to me with dual SK sidedrafts (Weber rip-offs) and the head had s=
ome interesting stuff done to it.The intake area on the head was carved out t=
o raise the angle of the SK's and the combustion chambers were recessed with=
 a flat mill to fit pop up pistons to gain compression without much head mil=
ling. I know others run pop-up pistons. Has anyone else done this?
> <Head 2.jpg>
> <C chamber.jpg>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gblake58tr3@=
icloud.com

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">WOW!&nbsp;<div>Nice looking setup.&nbsp;<br=
 id=3D"lineBreakAtBeginningOfSignature"><div dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my iPhone=
</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Jan 11, 2025, at 13:=
48, JIm Gray via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote><=
/div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<meta http-equiv=3D=
"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"><meta name=3D"Generato=
r" content=3D"Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style>@font-face { font-=
family: "Cambria Math"; }
@font-face { font-family: Calibri; }
@font-face { font-family: Aptos; }
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal { margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; fon=
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div.WordSection1 { page: WordSection1; }</style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
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<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div class=3D"WordSection1"><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Yep, I did exactly that plus deshr=
ouded the valves. I took off just enough to remove the shrouds at the valves=
 and went with Wiseco pop ups made to order through BF&amp;E. Also welded in=
 and reshaped the exhaust valve pockets and part of the ports. It spent a lo=
t of time on the flow bench.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">The head I built before this one eventually cr=
acked due to being milled to thin so I went the other way to get compression=
.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0p=
t">jg<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:soli=
d #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</=
span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,san=
s-serif"> Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>Bob Kra=
mer via Fot<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, January 11, 2025 8:33 AM<br><b>To:</b>=
 Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> [Fot] milling TR4 head fo=
r pop-ups<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I am finally rebuilding the engine I g=
ot with the #67 TR4 many years ago. The car came to me with dual SK sidedraf=
ts (Weber rip-offs) and the head had some interesting stuff done to it.The i=
ntake area on the head was carved out to raise the angle of the SK's and the=
 combustion chambers were recessed with a flat mill to fit pop up pistons to=
 gain compression without much head milling. I know others run pop-up piston=
s. Has anyone else done this?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Bob Krame=
r<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><div>&lt;Head1.jpg&gt;</div><d=
iv>&lt;Head 2.jpg&gt;</div><div>&lt;cc2.jpg&gt;</div><div>&lt;C chamber.jpg&=
gt;</div><div>&lt;DSCN1566.jpg&gt;</div><div>&lt;IMG_2072.JPG&gt;</div><span=
>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>[email-masked]=
eam.net</span><br><span></span><br><span>http://www.fot-racing.com</span><br=
><span></span><br><span>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html</span><br><s=
pan>Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot=
</span><br><span>Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/f=
ot/[email-masked]</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br></div>=
</blockquote></div></body></html>=

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From: Bob Kramer via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2025 14:56:58 -0600

--000000000000ebb762062b74759e

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This is what I got. Dennis Shea was a Xerox (or was it Kodak) engineer.
You're setup looks like it has a little more thought behind it. I left the
carbon pattern on the piston to show the pattern.
Bob Kramer

On Sat, Jan 11, 2025 at 1:23=E2=80=AFPM <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Yep, I did exactly that plus deshrouded the valves. I took off just enoug=
h
> to remove the shrouds at the valves and went with Wiseco pop ups made to
> order through BF&E. Also welded in and reshaped the exhaust valve pockets
> and part of the ports. It spent a lot of time on the flow bench.
>
> The head I built before this one eventually cracked due to being milled t=
o
> *From:* Fot <[email-masked]> *On Behalf Of *Bob Kramer via Fo=
t
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 11, 2025 8:33 AM
> *To:* Fot <[email-masked]>
> *Subject:* [Fot] milling TR4 head for pop-ups
>
>
>
> I am finally rebuilding the engine I got with the #67 TR4 many years ago.
> The car came to me with dual SK sidedrafts (Weber rip-offs) and the head
> had some interesting stuff done to it.The intake area on the head was
> carved out to raise the angle of the SK's and the combustion chambers wer=
e
> recessed with a flat mill to fit pop up pistons to gain compression witho=
ut
> much head milling. I know others run pop-up pistons. Has anyone else done
> this?
>
>
>
> Bob Kramer
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>This is what I got. Dennis Shea was a Xerox (or was i=
t Kodak) engineer. You&#39;re setup looks like it has a little more thought=
 behind it. I left the carbon pattern on the piston to show the pattern.</d=
iv><div><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_=
signature"><div dir=3D"ltr">Bob Kramer</div></div></div><br></div><br><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Jan 11,=
 2025 at 1:23=E2=80=AFPM &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px s=
olid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Yep, I did exactly that pl=
us deshrouded the valves. I took off just enough to remove the shrouds at t=
he valves and went with Wiseco pop ups made to order through BF&amp;E. Also=
 welded in and reshaped the exhaust valve pockets and part of the ports. It=
 spent a lot of time on the flow bench.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">The head I built before this one=
 eventually cracked due to being milled to thin so I went the other way to =
get compression.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"font-size:11pt">jg<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><div style=3D"bord=
er-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(=
225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"=
font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=
=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
</a>&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>Bob Kramer via Fot<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, J=
anuary 11, 2025 8:33 AM<br><b>To:</b> Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
eam.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> [F=
ot] milling TR4 head for pop-ups<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I am fi=
nally rebuilding the engine I got with the #67 TR4 many years ago. The car =
came to me with dual SK sidedrafts (Weber rip-offs) and the head had some i=
nteresting stuff done to it.The intake area on the head was carved out to r=
aise the angle of the SK&#39;s and the combustion chambers were recessed wi=
th a flat mill to fit pop up pistons to gain compression without much head =
milling. I know others run pop-up pistons. Has anyone else done this?<u></u=
><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div=
><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Bob Kramer<u></u><u></u></p></div></=
div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div>

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From: JIm Gray via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2025 16:24:22 -0700 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_02A8_01DB6445.46786D20"

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Dave,

I=E2=80=99ll have to dig out the build book for that head to say how =
much I took off. It wasn=E2=80=99t a lot but enough to remove the =
material around the valves. I=E2=80=99ve attached the dome info.

They put the dome that I wanted on them.

The CR on this motor is 13.2:1. Also a pic of the tool I made to shape =
the combustion chambers. Welded to an old valve. Not exactly CNC but =
repeatable.

jg

=20

From: DAVE HOGYE <[email-masked]>=20
Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2025 2:34 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Fot] milling TR4 head for pop-ups

=20

Hi Jim,=20

Great work as usual.  Looks awesome. What are the pistons and how much =
came off the head?  What is the pop-up CCs? =20

Dave H. =20

On 01/11/2025 11:23 AM PST JIm Gray via Fot <[email-masked] =

 =20

 =20

jg

=20

From: Fot <[email-masked] =
Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2025 8:33 AM
Subject: [Fot] milling TR4 head for pop-ups

=20

=20

Bob Kramer

_______________________________________________=20

http://www.fot-racing.com=20

Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot =

http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]=20

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link=3D"#467886" vlink=3D"#96607D" style=3D'word-wrap:break-word'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Dave,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>I=E2=80=99ll have to =
dig out the build book for that head to say how much I took off. It =
wasn=E2=80=99t a lot but enough to remove the material around the =
valves. I=E2=80=99ve attached the dome info.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>They put the dome =
that I wanted on them.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>The CR on this motor is 13.2:1. Also a pic of =
the tool I made to shape the combustion chambers. Welded to an old =
valve. Not exactly CNC but repeatable.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>jg<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span><=
/b><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> =
DAVE HOGYE &lt;[email-masked]&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, =
January 11, 2025 2:34 PM<br><b>To:</b> =
[email-masked]<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] milling TR4 head =
for pop-ups<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333'>Hi Jim, =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333'>Great work as =
usual.&nbsp; Looks awesome. What are the pistons and how much came off =
the head?&nbsp; What is the pop-up CCs?&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333'>Dave H.&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>On 01/11/2025 11:23 AM PST JIm Gray via Fot &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote: =
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Yep, I did exactly that plus deshrouded the =
valves. I took off just enough to remove the shrouds at the valves and =
went with Wiseco pop ups made to order through BF&amp;E. Also welded in =
and reshaped the exhaust valve pockets and part of the ports. It spent a =
lot of time on the flow bench.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>The head I built before this one eventually =
cracked due to being milled to thin so I went the other way to get =
compression.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>jg</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><strong><spa=
n =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span><=
/strong><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Fot &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>=
&gt; <strong><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>On Behalf =
Of </span></strong>Bob Kramer via Fot<br><strong><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Sent:</span></strong> =
Saturday, January 11, 2025 8:33 AM<br><strong><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>To:</span></strong> Fot =
&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><strong>=
<span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Subject:</span></strong> =
[Fot] milling TR4 head for pop-ups</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I am =
finally rebuilding the engine I got with the #67 TR4 many years ago. The =
car came to me with dual SK sidedrafts (Weber rip-offs) and the head had =
some interesting stuff done to it.The intake area on the head was carved =
out to raise the angle of the SK's and the combustion chambers were =
recessed with a flat mill to fit pop up pistons to gain compression =
without much head milling. I know others run pop-up pistons. Has anyone =
else done this?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Bob =
Kramer<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>__________________________________________=
_____ <br><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> =
<br><br><a =
href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com">http://www.fot-racing.com</a> =
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href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html<=
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fot</a> <br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a =
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<br><br><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></body></html>
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