Subject: Re: [Fot] Piston to head clearance

From: Steven Belfer via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 09:35:16 -0800

You want as little as necessary because this is where your high CR comes from.  The thickness of the head gasket is the major part of P to H clearance.   I ran .026 P to H clearance at Cal Speedway and the piston kissed the head and I spun a bearing.   My machine shop guy likes .040 for safety but I’ve been running .032 and it’s working out great
~Steve

> On Jan 11, 2024, at 9:13 AM, Lorne Fritz via Fot <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi.  In the past I have had pistons hit the head and leave a mark(TR3/4).  What piston to head clearance are most of you running? Thanks in advance,   Lorne
> _______________________________________________
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From: Dave Hogye via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 10:31:02 -0800

.030” if I remember correctly. Max revs 6200, race prepped standard crank, Carrillo rods, factory cast 87mm Hepolite pistons. 
Dave H. 
Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 11, 2024, at 10:01 AM, Steven Belfer via Fot <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
> 
>

---

From: Dave Hogye via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 10:31:02 -0800

---

From: fubog1 via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 19:01:00 +0000 (UTC)

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 Steve nailed it, both on the ##s, & the importance of it.It depends on wha=
t rods & crank, piston to wall clearance & what RPM, but for most applicati=
ons that's right in the ballpark.
I've run as little as oops not enough ie .025 or less, .028 minimum (you wo=
n't get any carbon deposit on the squish area), but to play it safe nowaday=
s I use .030-.032Also on these engines it's not only a CR related issue, th=
e squish is very critical, you want to minimize the clearance between pisto=
n top & head to maximize the squish effect, which creates turbulence, which=
 assists in good combustion...

Glen Efinger.

    On Thursday, January 11, 2024 at 01:00:50 PM EST, Steven Belfer via Fot=
 <[email-masked]> wrote: =20
=20
 You want as little as necessary because this is where your high CR comes f=
rom.=C2=A0 The thickness of the head gasket is the major part of P to H cle=
arance.=C2=A0 I ran .026 P to H clearance at Cal Speedway and the piston ki=
ssed the head and I spun a bearing.=C2=A0 My machine shop guy likes .040 fo=
r safety but I=E2=80=99ve been running .032 and it=E2=80=99s working out gr=
eat
~Steve

> On Jan 11, 2024, at 9:13=E2=80=AFAM, Lorne Fritz via Fot <[email-masked].=
net> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> Hi.=C2=A0 In the past I have had pistons hit the head and leave a mark(TR=
3/4).=C2=A0 What piston to head clearance are most of you running? Thanks i=
n advance,=C2=A0 Lorne
>=20
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/steve@artwi=
thcars.com
>=20
>=20

m

 =20
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<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"ydp3738bd7byahoo-style-wrap" style=
=3D"font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div></div>
        <div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><span><span>Steve nailed it,=
 both on the ##s, &amp; the importance of it.</span></span></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">It depends on what rods &amp; crank, piston =
to wall clearance &amp; what RPM, but for most applications that's right in=
 the ballpark.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">I've run as =
little as oops not enough ie .025 or less, .028 minimum (you won't get any =
carbon deposit on the squish area), but to play it safe nowadays I use .030=
-.032</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><div><span><div dir=3D"lt=
r" data-setdir=3D"false">Also on these engines it's not only a CR related i=
ssue, the squish is very critical, you want to minimize the clearance betwe=
en piston top &amp; head to maximize the squish effect, which creates turbu=
lence, which assists in good combustion...<br></div></span><div><span><div =
dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div></span><div><span><div dir=3D"l=
tr" data-setdir=3D"false">Glen Efinger.</div></span></div></div></div><div>=
<br></div></div><div><br></div>
       =20
        </div><div id=3D"ydpeb00682yahoo_quoted_5223032547" class=3D"ydpeb0=
0682yahoo_quoted">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
                <div>
                    On Thursday, January 11, 2024 at 01:00:50 PM EST, Steve=
n Belfer via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><div dir=3D"ltr">You want as little as necessary becau=
se this is where your high CR comes from.&nbsp; The thickness of the head g=
asket is the major part of P to H clearance.&nbsp;  I ran .026 P to H clear=
ance at Cal Speedway and the piston kissed the head and I spun a bearing.&n=
bsp;  My machine shop guy likes .040 for safety but I=E2=80=99ve been runni=
ng .032 and it=E2=80=99s working out great<br clear=3D"none">~Steve<br clea=
r=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">&gt; On Jan 11, 2024, at 9=
:13=E2=80=AFAM, Lorne Fritz via Fot &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:fo=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>=
&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; =EF=BB=BF<br cle=
ar=3D"none">&gt; Hi.&nbsp; In the past I have had pistons hit the head and =
leave a mark(TR3/4).&nbsp; What piston to head clearance are most of you ru=
nning? Thanks in advance,&nbsp;  Lorne<br clear=3D"none">&gt; _____________=
__________________________________<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <a shape=3D"rect"=
 href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">fot@=
autox.team.net</a><br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; <a shape=
=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_bl=
ank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none=
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=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">_________________=
______________________________<br clear=3D"none"><a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"=
mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
m.net</a><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"ht=
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From: Chris Marx via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 20:29:14 +0100

This is a multipart message in MIME format.

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Hi,

=20

I=E2=80=99ve found a gentle gain in power with gap of 0.047=E2=80=9D. =
Less distance did cost 4-5 Hp.

=20

Cheers

Chris

=20

=20

From: Fot <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of Lorne Fritz via Fot
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2024 6:06 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [Fot] Piston to head clearance

=20

Hi.  In the past I have had pistons hit the head and leave a =
mark(TR3/4).  What piston to head clearance are most of you running? =
Thanks in advance,   Lorne

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link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72" style=3D'word-wrap:break-word'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DDE>Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DDE><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>I=E2=80=99ve =
found a gentle gain in power with gap of 0.047=E2=80=9D. Less distance =
did cost 4-5 Hp.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Cheers<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Chris<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DDE>From:</span></b><span =
lang=3DDE> Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Lorne Fritz via Fot<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 11, 2024 6:06 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> [email-masked]<br><b>Subject:</b> [Fot] Piston to =
head clearance<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Hi.&nbsp; In the past I have had pistons hit the head =
and leave a mark(TR3/4).&nbsp; What piston to head clearance are most of =
you running? Thanks in advance,&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Lorne<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></body></html>
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From: Lorne Fritz via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 16:48:50 -0500

--===============1771923678416838062==

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Thanks everyone for the info.  In the past after kissing the head I cut
.010 off the pistons while using a thin steel head gasket.  Right now I
have .025. I didn't think that was enough, that is why I was looking for
help.       Lorne

On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 2:29=E2=80=AFPM <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
>
> I=E2=80=99ve found a gentle gain in power with gap of 0.047=E2=80=9D. Les=
s distance did
> cost 4-5 Hp.
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Fot <[email-masked]> *On Behalf Of *Lorne Fritz via
> Fot
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 11, 2024 6:06 PM
> *To:* [email-masked]
> *Subject:* [Fot] Piston to head clearance
>
>
>
> Hi.  In the past I have had pistons hit the head and leave a mark(TR3/4).
> What piston to head clearance are most of you running? Thanks in advance,
> Lorne
>

--00000000000009fc5d060eb2848a
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Thanks everyone for the info.=C2=A0 In the past after kiss=
ing the head I cut .010 off the pistons while using a thin steel head gaske=
t.=C2=A0 Right now I have .025. I didn&#39;t think that was enough, that is=
 why I was looking for help.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Lorne<br><=
/div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">O=
n Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 2:29=E2=80=AFPM &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tr4racing@goog=
lemail.com">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid=
 rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"msg5561831802651376399"><=
div style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;" lang=3D"EN-US"><div class=3D"m_556=
1831802651376399WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"DE">Hi,<=
u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"DE"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I=E2=80=99ve found a gentle gai=
n in power with gap of 0.047=E2=80=9D. Less distance did cost 4-5 Hp.<u></u=
><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal">Cheers<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Chris<u></u><u></u></=
p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u>=
</u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div style=3D"border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcol=
or currentcolor;border-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium=
;padding:3pt 0cm 0cm"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"DE">From:</sp=
an></b><span lang=3D"DE"> Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked].=
net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; <b>On Behalf Of <=
/b>Lorne Fritz via Fot<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 11, 2024 6:06 PM<b=
r><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">fot@au=
tox.team.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Fot] Piston to head clearance<u></u><u=
></u></span></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi.=C2=A0 In the past I have had pistons hit the head=
 and leave a mark(TR3/4).=C2=A0 What piston to head clearance are most of y=
ou running? Thanks in advance,=C2=A0=C2=A0 Lorne<u></u><u></u></p></div></d=
iv></div></div></blockquote></div>

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From: Chris Marx via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 00:45:52 +0100

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That is one thing to consider.

When is turbulence supporting and when is turbulence overdone and =
disturbing.

=20

I could imagine to force too much turbulence with a very small squish =
gap the flame front expansion is compromised, thus slows down, and =
lowers the hp output.

That=E2=80=99s why we had the best power with 0.047=E2=80=9D gap.

=20

Cheers

Chris

=20

=20

From: Fot <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of fubog1 via Fot
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2024 8:01 PM
To: Lorne Fritz <[email-masked]>; Steven Belfer =
<[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Fot] Piston to head clearance

=20

Steve nailed it, both on the ##s, & the importance of it.

It depends on what rods & crank, piston to wall clearance & what RPM, =
but for most applications that's right in the ballpark.

I've run as little as oops not enough ie .025 or less, .028 minimum (you =
won't get any carbon deposit on the squish area), but to play it safe =
nowadays I use .030-.032

Also on these engines it's not only a CR related issue, the squish is =
very critical, you want to minimize the clearance between piston top & =
head to maximize the squish effect, which creates turbulence, which =
assists in good combustion...

=20

Glen Efinger.

=20

=20

On Thursday, January 11, 2024 at 01:00:50 PM EST, Steven Belfer via Fot =

=20

=20

You want as little as necessary because this is where your high CR comes =
from.  The thickness of the head gasket is the major part of P to H =
clearance.  I ran .026 P to H clearance at Cal Speedway and the piston =
kissed the head and I spun a bearing.  My machine shop guy likes .040 =
for safety but I=E2=80=99ve been running .032 and it=E2=80=99s working =
out great
~Steve

> On Jan 11, 2024, at 9:13=E2=80=AFAM, Lorne Fritz via Fot =
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive =
http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]

Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'word-wrap:break-word'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>That is one thing to =
consider.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>When is turbulence =
supporting and when is turbulence overdone and =
disturbing.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>I could imagine to force too much turbulence with a =
very small squish gap the flame front expansion is compromised, thus =
slows down, and lowers the hp output.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>That=E2=80=99s why we had the best power with =
0.047=E2=80=9D gap.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Cheers<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Chris<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DDE>From:</span></b><span =
lang=3DDE> Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>fubog1 via Fot<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 11, 2024 8:01 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> Lorne Fritz &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; Steven =
Belfer &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> =
[email-masked]<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] Piston to head =
clearance<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Steve nailed =
it, both on the ##s, &amp; the importance of =
it.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>It depends on =
what rods &amp; crank, piston to wall clearance &amp; what RPM, but for =
most applications that's right in the =
ballpark.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>I've run as =
little as oops not enough ie .025 or less, .028 minimum (you won't get =
any carbon deposit on the squish area), but to play it safe nowadays I =
use .030-.032<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Also on these =
engines it's not only a CR related issue, the squish is very critical, =
you want to minimize the clearance between piston top &amp; head to =
maximize the squish effect, which creates turbulence, which assists in =
good combustion...<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Glen =
Efinger.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></span></p></div></div><div =
id=3D"ydpeb00682yahoo_quoted_5223032547"><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'>On Thursday, January 11, 2024 at 01:00:50 PM EST, Steven Belfer via =
Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'>You want as little as necessary because this is where your high CR =
comes from.&nbsp; The thickness of the head gasket is the major part of =
P to H clearance.&nbsp; I ran .026 P to H clearance at Cal Speedway and =
the piston kissed the head and I spun a bearing.&nbsp; My machine shop =
guy likes .040 for safety but I=E2=80=99ve been running .032 and =
it=E2=80=99s working out great<br>~Steve<br><br><br>&gt; On Jan 11, =
2024, at 9:13=E2=80=AFAM, Lorne Fritz via Fot &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>&gt; <br>&gt; =
</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>=
=EF=BB=BF</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'><br>&gt; Hi.&nbsp; In the past I have had pistons hit the head and =
leave a mark(TR3/4).&nbsp; What piston to head clearance are most of you =
running? Thanks in advance,&nbsp; Lorne<br>&gt; =
_______________________________________________<br>&gt; <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br>&gt; <br>&gt; <a =
href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br>&gt; <br>&gt; Donate: =
<a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>&gt; Archive: =
<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" =
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a><br>&gt; =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/steve@artwith=
cars.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><div id=3Dydpeb00682yqtfd30826><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'><br>&gt; <br>&gt; =
<br>_______________________________________________<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br><br><a =
href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br><br>Donate: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Archive: <a =
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target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a =
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target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a><br>Unsubscribe/Ma=
nage: <a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]" =
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m</a><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></=
body></html>
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From: Lorne Fritz via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 09:31:40 -0500

--===============7269372004956226058==

--00000000000074cb85060ec086c0
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Good point.

On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 6:45=E2=80=AFPM <[email-masked]> wrote:

> When is turbulence supporting and when is turbulence overdone and
> disturbing.
>
>
>
> I could imagine to force too much turbulence with a very small squish gap
> the flame front expansion is compromised, thus slows down, and lowers the
> hp output.
>
> *From:* Fot <[email-masked]> *On Behalf Of *fubog1 via Fot
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 11, 2024 8:01 PM
> *To:* Lorne Fritz <[email-masked]>; Steven Belfer <
> [email-masked]>
> *Cc:* [email-masked]
> *Subject:* Re: [Fot] Piston to head clearance
>
>
>
> It depends on what rods & crank, piston to wall clearance & what RPM, but
> for most applications that's right in the ballpark.
>
> I've run as little as oops not enough ie .025 or less, .028 minimum (you
> won't get any carbon deposit on the squish area), but to play it safe
> nowadays I use .030-.032
>
> Also on these engines it's not only a CR related issue, the squish is ver=
y
> critical, you want to minimize the clearance between piston top & head to
> maximize the squish effect, which creates turbulence, which assists in go=
od
> combustion...
>
>
>
> Glen Efinger.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, January 11, 2024 at 01:00:50 PM EST, Steven Belfer via Fot <
> [email-masked]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> You want as little as necessary because this is where your high CR comes
> from.  The thickness of the head gasket is the major part of P to H
> clearance.  I ran .026 P to H clearance at Cal Speedway and the piston
> kissed the head and I spun a bearing.  My machine shop guy likes .040 for
> safety but I=E2=80=99ve been running .032 and it=E2=80=99s working out gr=
eat
> ~Steve
>
>
> > On Jan 11, 2024, at 9:13=E2=80=AFAM, Lorne Fritz via Fot <[email-masked]=
m.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > =EF=BB=BF
> > Hi.  In the past I have had pistons hit the head and leave a
> mark(TR3/4).  What piston to head clearance are most of you running? Than=
ks
> in advance,  Lorne
> > Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fo=
t
> > Unsubscribe/Manage:
> Unsubscribe/Manage:

--00000000000074cb85060ec086c0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Good point. <br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 6:45=E2=80=AFPM &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&=
gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div =
class=3D"msg986188904719810780"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;" l=
ang=3D"EN-US"><div class=3D"m_986188904719810780WordSection1"><p class=3D"M=
soNormal">That is one thing to consider.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal">When is turbulence supporting and when is turbulence overdone and dis=
turbing.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal">I could imagine to force too much turbulence with a ve=
ry small squish gap the flame front expansion is compromised, thus slows do=
wn, and lowers the hp output.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">That=
=E2=80=99s why we had the best power with 0.047=E2=80=9D gap.<u></u><u></u>=
</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">C=
heers<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Chris<u></u><u></u></p><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></p><div><div style=3D"border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor=
 currentcolor;border-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;p=
adding:3pt 0cm 0cm"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"DE">From:</span=
></b><span lang=3D"DE"> Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
t" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b=
>fubog1 via Fot<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 11, 2024 8:01 PM<br><b>To=
:</b> Lorne Fritz &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_b=
lank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; Steven Belfer &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:st=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b>=
Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
eam.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] Piston to head clearance<u></u><u>=
</u></span></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><=
div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&=
quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">Steve nailed it, both on the ##s, &amp; the im=
portance of it.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">It d=
epends on what rods &amp; crank, piston to wall clearance &amp; what RPM, b=
ut for most applications that&#39;s right in the ballpark.<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">I&#39;ve run as little as oops not e=
nough ie .025 or less, .028 minimum (you won&#39;t get any carbon deposit o=
n the squish area), but to play it safe nowadays I use .030-.032<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">Also on these engine=
s it&#39;s not only a CR related issue, the squish is very critical, you wa=
nt to minimize the clearance between piston top &amp; head to maximize the =
squish effect, which creates turbulence, which assists in good combustion..=
.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0=
<u></u></span></p></div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">Glen Efinger.<u></u><=
u></u></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p></div></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<=
u></u></span></p></div></div><div id=3D"m_986188904719810780ydpeb00682yahoo=
_quoted_5223032547"><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:10pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">O=
n Thursday, January 11, 2024 at 01:00:50 PM EST, Steven Belfer via Fot &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]<=
/a>&gt; wrote: <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;c=
olor:rgb(38,40,42)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"M=
soNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,s=
ans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p></div><div><d=
iv><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;H=
elvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">You want as little as necess=
ary because this is where your high CR comes from.=C2=A0 The thickness of t=
he head gasket is the major part of P to H clearance.=C2=A0 I ran .026 P to=
 H clearance at Cal Speedway and the piston kissed the head and I spun a be=
aring.=C2=A0 My machine shop guy likes .040 for safety but I=E2=80=99ve bee=
n running .032 and it=E2=80=99s working out great<br>~Steve<br><br><br>&gt;=
 On Jan 11, 2024, at 9:13=E2=80=AFAM, Lorne Fritz via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote=
:<br>&gt; <br>&gt; </span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;T=
ahoma&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">=EF=BB=BF</span><span style=3D"=
font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40=
,42)"><br>&gt; Hi.=C2=A0 In the past I have had pistons hit the head and le=
ave a mark(TR3/4).=C2=A0 What piston to head clearance are most of you runn=
ing? Thanks in advance,=C2=A0 Lorne<br>&gt; _______________________________=
________________<br>&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_b=
lank">[email-masked]</a><br>&gt; <br>&gt; <a href=3D"http://www.fot-rac=
ing.com" target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br>&gt; <br>&gt; D=
onate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">http:/=
/www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>&gt; Archive: <a href=3D"http://autox.team=
.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a href=
=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.ne=
t/pipermail/fot</a><br>&gt; Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.tea=
m.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">http://a=
utox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a><u></u><u></u></=
span></p><div id=3D"m_986188904719810780ydpeb00682yqtfd30826"><p class=3D"M=
soNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"><br>&gt; <br>&g=
t; <br>_______________________________________________<br><a href=3D"mailto=
:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br><br><a hre=
f=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com=
</a><br><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_=
blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Archive: <a href=3D"http://au=
tox.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <=
a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot" target=3D"_blank">http://www.t=
eam.net/pipermail/fot</a><br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.te=
am.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.t=
eam.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a><br><br><u></u><u></u></span>=
</p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div>

--00000000000074cb85060ec086c0--

--===============7269372004956226058==
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---

From: Ken Knight via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 07:57:05 -0800

--===============3781238358541380387==
	boundary="_409B391E-BA27-4AB0-B2BD-B9301A5FC0E5_"

--_409B391E-BA27-4AB0-B2BD-B9301A5FC0E5_
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Interesting discussion and I would agree on point.  What would interesting =
to know is how the HP change was measured; chassis dyno or engine dyno?

Ken=20

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Lorne Fritz via Fot
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2024 7:13 AM
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]; fubog1
Subject: Re: [Fot] Piston to head clearance

Good point.=20

On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 6:45=E2=80=AFPM <[email-masked]> wrote:
That is one thing to consider.
When is turbulence supporting and when is turbulence overdone and disturbin=
g.
=C2=A0
I could imagine to force too much turbulence with a very small squish gap t=
he flame front expansion is compromised, thus slows down, and lowers the hp=
 output.
That=E2=80=99s why we had the best power with 0.047=E2=80=9D gap.
=C2=A0
Cheers
Chris
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
From: Fot <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of fubog1 via Fot
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2024 8:01 PM
To: Lorne Fritz <[email-masked]>; Steven Belfer <[email-masked]=
om>
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Fot] Piston to head clearance
=C2=A0
Steve nailed it, both on the ##s, & the importance of it.
It depends on what rods & crank, piston to wall clearance & what RPM, but f=
or most applications that's right in the ballpark.
I've run as little as oops not enough ie .025 or less, .028 minimum (you wo=
n't get any carbon deposit on the squish area), but to play it safe nowaday=
s I use .030-.032
Also on these engines it's not only a CR related issue, the squish is very =
critical, you want to minimize the clearance between piston top & head to m=
aximize the squish effect, which creates turbulence, which assists in good =
combustion...
=C2=A0
Glen Efinger.
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
On Thursday, January 11, 2024 at 01:00:50 PM EST, Steven Belfer via Fot <fo=
[email-masked]> wrote:=20
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
You want as little as necessary because this is where your high CR comes fr=
om.=C2=A0 The thickness of the head gasket is the major part of P to H clea=
rance.=C2=A0 I ran .026 P to H clearance at Cal Speedway and the piston kis=
sed the head and I spun a bearing.=C2=A0 My machine shop guy likes .040 for=
 safety but I=E2=80=99ve been running .032 and it=E2=80=99s working out gre=
at
~Steve

thcars.com

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<html xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:sc=
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fice/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta ht=
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--></style></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3D"#954F72" style=3D=
'word-wrap:break-word'><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>Inter=
esting discussion and I would agree on point.=C2=A0 What would interesting =
to know is how the HP change was measured; chassis dyno or engine dyno?</p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Ken </p><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Sent from <a hre=
f=3D"https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=3D550986">Mail</a> for Windows=
</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div style=3D'mso-element:par=
a-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0=
in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'border:none;padding:0in'><b>From: </b=
><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">Lorne Fritz via Fot</a><br><b>Sent: =
</b>Friday, January 12, 2024 7:13 AM<br><b>To: </b><a href=3D"mailto:tr4rac=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br><b>Cc: </b><a href=3D"m=
ailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:fubog1@=
aol.com">fubog1</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Fot] Piston to head clearance</=
p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal=
>Good point. </p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal>On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 6:45=E2=80=AFPM &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</=
p></div><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;pa=
dding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><div>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>That is one thing to consider.</p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-=
margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>When is turbulence supporti=
ng and when is turbulence overdone and disturbing.</p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;</p><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:aut=
o'>I could imagine to force too much turbulence with a very small squish ga=
p the flame front expansion is compromised, thus slows down, and lowers the=
 hp output.</p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-ma=
rgin-bottom-alt:auto'>That=E2=80=99s why we had the best power with 0.047=
=E2=80=9D gap.</p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso=
-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;</p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin=
-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Cheers</p><p class=3DMsoNormal st=
yle=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Chris</p><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>=
&nbsp;</p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-=
bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;</p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid =
windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;border-color:currentcolor curren=
tcolor'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bo=
ttom-alt:auto'><b><span lang=3DDE>From:</span></b><span lang=3DDE> Fot &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">fot-bounces=
@autox.team.net</a>&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>fubog1 via Fot<br><b>Sent:</b> =
Thursday, January 11, 2024 8:01 PM<br><b>To:</b> Lorne Fritz &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&=
gt;; Steven Belfer &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_=
blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:fot@au=
tox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br><b>Subject:</b> R=
e: [Fot] Piston to head clearance</span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;</p><d=
iv><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bo=
ttom-alt:auto'><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-ser=
if'>Steve nailed it, both on the ##s, &amp; the importance of it.</span></p=
></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margi=
n-bottom-alt:auto'><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans=
-serif'>It depends on what rods &amp; crank, piston to wall clearance &amp;=
 what RPM, but for most applications that's right in the ballpark.</span></=
p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-marg=
in-bottom-alt:auto'><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",san=
s-serif'>I've run as little as oops not enough ie .025 or less, .028 minimu=
m (you won't get any carbon deposit on the squish area), but to play it saf=
e nowadays I use .030-.032</span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span styl=
e=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Also on these engines=
 it's not only a CR related issue, the squish is very critical, you want to=
 minimize the clearance between piston top &amp; head to maximize the squis=
h effect, which creates turbulence, which assists in good combustion...</sp=
an></p></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:aut=
o;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"=
Arial",sans-serif'>&nbsp;</span></p></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal st=
yle=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Glen Efinger.</span></p></d=
iv></div></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:=
auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-famil=
y:"Arial",sans-serif'>&nbsp;</span></p></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style=
=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>&nbsp;</span></p></div=
></div><div id=3D"m_986188904719810780ydpeb00682yahoo_quoted_5223032547"><d=
iv><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bo=
ttom-alt:auto'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans=
-serif;color:#26282A'>On Thursday, January 11, 2024 at 01:00:50 PM EST, Ste=
ven Belfer via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_bla=
nk">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote: </span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>&=
nbsp;</span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt=
:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>&nbsp;</span></p></div><div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:=
auto'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;co=
lor:#26282A'>You want as little as necessary because this is where your hig=
h CR comes from.&nbsp; The thickness of the head gasket is the major part o=
f P to H clearance.&nbsp; I ran .026 P to H clearance at Cal Speedway and t=
he piston kissed the head and I spun a bearing.&nbsp; My machine shop guy l=
ikes .040 for safety but I=E2=80=99ve been running .032 and it=E2=80=99s wo=
rking out great<br>~Steve<br><br><br>&gt; On Jan 11, 2024, at 9:13=E2=80=AF=
AM, Lorne Fritz via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D=
"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>&gt; <br>&gt; </span><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>=EF=
=BB=BF</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-s=
erif;color:#26282A'><br>&gt; Hi.&nbsp; In the past I have had pistons hit t=
he head and leave a mark(TR3/4).&nbsp; What piston to head clearance are mo=
st of you running? Thanks in advance,&nbsp; Lorne<br>&gt; _________________=
______________________________<br>&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br>&gt; <br>&gt; <a href=3D"http=
://www.fot-racing.com" target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br>&=
gt; <br>&gt; Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"=
_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>&gt; Archive: <a href=3D"htt=
p://autox.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive=
</a> <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot" target=3D"_blank">http:/=
/www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a><br>&gt; Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http=
://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]" target=3D"_bla=
nk">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a></sp=
an></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-=
left:4.8pt'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-se=
rif;color:#26282A'><br>&gt; <br>&gt; <br>__________________________________=
_____________<br><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">fo=
[email-masked]</a><br><br><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" target=3D=
"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www=
.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a=
><br>Archive: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttp://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/f=
ot" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a><br>Unsubscribe/=
Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]=
" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]=
m</a></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></body></ht=
ml>=

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---

From: fubog1 via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 16:29:45 +0000 (UTC)

--===============2944406252922560307==
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 I'm still burning up (precious) brain cells on this, yes interesting, but =
that's one of my questions also, exactly how was the reported gain establis=
hed?I've always gone with the theory that more is better when it comes to t=
urbulence, which requires minimal squish clearance.I would imagine that cha=
mber & piston top configuration, ie flat-tops or a lump on top, may be part=
 of the equation as well...Yes compelling discussion!
Glen Efinger

    On Friday, January 12, 2024 at 10:57:08 AM EST, Ken Knight <kknight@kla=
env.com> wrote: =20
=20
=20
Interesting discussion and I would agree on point.=C2=A0 What would interes=
ting to know is how the HP change was measured; chassis dyno or engine dyno=
?

 =C2=A0

Ken=20

 =C2=A0

 =C2=A0

 =C2=A0

Good point.=20

 =C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Cheers

Chris

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Glen Efinger.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

thcars.com

 =C2=A0
 =20
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<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"ydpc3aa0f24yahoo-style-wrap" style=
=3D"font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div></div>
        <div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">I'm still burning up (precio=
us) brain cells on this, yes interesting, but that's one of my questions al=
so, exactly how was the reported gain established?</div><div dir=3D"ltr" da=
ta-setdir=3D"false">I've always gone with the theory that more is better wh=
en it comes to turbulence, which requires minimal squish clearance.</div><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">I would imagine that chamber &amp; pis=
ton top configuration, ie flat-tops or a lump on top, may be part of the eq=
uation as well...</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Yes compellin=
g discussion!</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div di=
r=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Glen Efinger<br></div><div><br></div>
       =20
        </div><div id=3D"ydp3da3111dyahoo_quoted_5967812695" class=3D"ydp3d=
a3111dyahoo_quoted">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
                <div>
                    On Friday, January 12, 2024 at 10:57:08 AM EST, Ken Kni=
ght &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><div id=3D"ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316"><div><div class=
=3D"ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316WordSection1"><p class=3D"ydp3da3111dyiv6692933=
316MsoNormal">Interesting discussion and I would agree on point.&nbsp; What=
 would interesting to know is how the HP change was measured; chassis dyno =
or engine dyno?</p><p class=3D"ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</=
p><p class=3D"ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316MsoNormal">Ken </p><p class=3D"ydp3da=
3111dyiv6692933316MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</p><p class=3D"ydp3da3111dyiv669293331=
6MsoNormal">Sent from <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"https://go.microsoft.com/fw=
link/?LinkId=3D550986" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">Mail</a> for Wind=
ows</p><p class=3D"ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</p><div id=3D=
"ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316yqt61391" class=3D"ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316yqt3517=
781960"><div style=3D"border-color: rgb(225, 225, 225) currentcolor current=
color; border-style: solid none none; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padd=
ing: 3pt 0in 0in;"><p style=3D"border-color: currentcolor; border-style: no=
ne; border-width: medium; padding: 0in;" class=3D"ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316M=
soNormal"><b>From: </b><a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
 rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">Lorne Fritz via Fot</a><br clear=3D"non=
e"><b>Sent: </b>Friday, January 12, 2024 7:13 AM<br clear=3D"none"><b>To: <=
/b><a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofoll=
ow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br clear=3D"none"><b>Cc:=
 </b><a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>; <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">fubog1</a><br clear=3D"n=
one"><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Fot] Piston to head clearance</p></div><p class=
=3D"ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</p><div><p class=3D"ydp3da31=
11dyiv6692933316MsoNormal">Good point. </p></div><p class=3D"ydp3da3111dyiv=
6692933316MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</p><div><div><p class=3D"ydp3da3111dyiv6692933=
316MsoNormal">On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 6:45=E2=80=AFPM &lt;<a shape=3D"rect"=
 href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank=
">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</p></div><blockquote style=3D"bor=
der-color: currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204, 204, 204); borde=
r-style: none none none solid; border-width: medium medium medium 1pt; padd=
ing: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin-left: 4.8pt; margin-right: 0in;"><div><div><di=
v><p class=3D"ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316MsoNormal">That is one thing to consi=
der.</p><p class=3D"ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316MsoNormal">When is turbulence s=
upporting and when is turbulence overdone and disturbing.</p><p class=3D"yd=
p3da3111dyiv6692933316MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p><p class=3D"ydp3da3111dyiv669293=
3316MsoNormal">I could imagine to force too much turbulence with a very sma=
ll squish gap the flame front expansion is compromised, thus slows down, an=
d lowers the hp output.</p><p class=3D"ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316MsoNormal">T=
hat=E2=80=99s why we had the best power with 0.047=E2=80=9D gap.</p><p clas=
s=3D"ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p><p class=3D"ydp3da3111dyi=
v6692933316MsoNormal">Cheers</p><p class=3D"ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316MsoNorm=
al">Chris</p><p class=3D"ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p><p cl=
ass=3D"ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p><div><div style=3D"bord=
er-style: solid none none; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0i=
n 0in; border-color: currentcolor;"><p class=3D"ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316Mso=
Normal"><b><span lang=3D"DE">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"DE"> Fot &lt;<a =
shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>fu=
bog1 via Fot<br clear=3D"none"><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 11, 2024 8:01=
 PM<br clear=3D"none"><b>To:</b> Lorne Fritz &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"=
mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">lorne.frit=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;; Steven Belfer &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:ste=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
m</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none"><b>Cc:</b> <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:fot=
@autox.team.net" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><=
br clear=3D"none"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] Piston to head clearance</span>=
</p></div></div><p class=3D"ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p><d=
iv><div><p class=3D"ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-=
size:12.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;">Steve nailed it, both on the ##s, &amp=
; the importance of it.</span></p></div><div><p class=3D"ydp3da3111dyiv6692=
933316MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;">I=
t depends on what rods &amp; crank, piston to wall clearance &amp; what RPM=
, but for most applications that's right in the ballpark.</span></p></div><=
div><p class=3D"ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size=
:12.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;">I've run as little as oops not enough ie .=
025 or less, .028 minimum (you won't get any carbon deposit on the squish a=
rea), but to play it safe nowadays I use .030-.032</span></p></div><div><di=
v><div><p class=3D"ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:12.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;">Also on these engines it's not only a C=
R related issue, the squish is very critical, you want to minimize the clea=
rance between piston top &amp; head to maximize the squish effect, which cr=
eates turbulence, which assists in good combustion...</span></p></div><div>=
<div><p class=3D"ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:12.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;">&nbsp;</span></p></div><div><div><p class=
=3D"ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font=
-family:sans-serif;">Glen Efinger.</span></p></div></div></div></div><div><=
p class=3D"ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0=
pt;font-family:sans-serif;">&nbsp;</span></p></div></div><div><p class=3D"y=
dp3da3111dyiv6692933316MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-fami=
ly:sans-serif;">&nbsp;</span></p></div></div><div id=3D"ydp3da3111dyiv66929=
33316m_986188904719810780ydpeb00682yahoo_quoted_5223032547"><div><div><p cl=
ass=3D"ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">On Thursday, January 11, 2024 at 01:0=
0:50 PM EST, Steven Belfer via Fot &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:fot=
@autox.team.net" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&=
gt; wrote: </span></p></div><div><p class=3D"ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316MsoNor=
mal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"=
>&nbsp;</span></p></div><div><p class=3D"ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316MsoNormal"=
><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">&nb=
sp;</span></p></div><div><div><p class=3D"ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316MsoNormal=
"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">Yo=
u want as little as necessary because this is where your high CR comes from=
.&nbsp; The thickness of the head gasket is the major part of P to H cleara=
nce.&nbsp; I ran .026 P to H clearance at Cal Speedway and the piston kisse=
d the head and I spun a bearing.&nbsp; My machine shop guy likes .040 for s=
afety but I=E2=80=99ve been running .032 and it=E2=80=99s working out great=
<br clear=3D"none">~Steve<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D=
"none">&gt; On Jan 11, 2024, at 9:13=E2=80=AFAM, Lorne Fritz via Fot &lt;<a=
 shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=
=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br cl=
ear=3D"none">&gt; </span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-s=
erif;color:#26282A;">=EF=BB=BF</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"><br clear=3D"none">&gt; Hi.&nbsp; In the p=
ast I have had pistons hit the head and leave a mark(TR3/4).&nbsp; What pis=
ton to head clearance are most of you running? Thanks in advance,&nbsp; Lor=
ne<br clear=3D"none">&gt; _______________________________________________<b=
r clear=3D"none">&gt; <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br clear=3D"none"=
>&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.fot-raci=
ng.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br=
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/www.team.net/pipermail/fot" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://www.=
team.net/pipermail/fot</a><br clear=3D"none">&gt; Unsubscribe/Manage: <a sh=
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div></div></div></blockquote></div><p style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-=
left:4.8pt;" class=3D"ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"><br clear=3D"none">&gt=
; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">______________________________=
_________________<br clear=3D"none"><a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:fot@au=
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clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.fot-=
racing.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a=
><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Donate: <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"ht=
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sp;</p></div></div></div></div>
            </div>
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---

From: Chris Marx via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 17:46:41 +0100

--===============3571596967340094454==
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The measurements were made on a rolling road=E2=80=A6.BUT on the rolling =
road at the Nurburging.

This dyno was in charge to measure the balance of performance power of =
the race cars under controlled regulations.

This dyno was equipped with a custom made software to be most exact. You =
can say the reference dyno.

=20

Why did we get a little gain?

My GUESS -  Two things come into play:

1.	Turbulence =E2=80=93 turbulence is good to the point when it gets so =
strong that it blows the flame out or it pushes against the flame front =
and hinder it
2.	Mathematical=E2=80=A6.assuming that you can make the gap zero between =
piston and head. The TR=E2=80=99s do have a chamber half the size of the =
piston surface. If you get the gap down to zero the pressure of the =
combustion forces on half of the piston deck: Force =3D pressure x area. =
If the area is half the size, the force is half as strong. Certainly =
this is only true on TDC as soon the piston moves downwards the full =
area of the piston deck comes in to play again.

=20

I guess, these little things might make this little gain happen.

But, I=E2=80=99m not an engine developer, I only make some thoughts =
about it=E2=80=A6maybe not true and the result is just luck.

On the other hand=E2=80=A6..my car has many wins with standard crank and =
standard valve sizes. Does perform quite nice and seem to hold together.

=20

Cheers

Chris

=20

=20

From: fubog1 <[email-masked]>=20
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2024 5:30 PM
To: Lorne Fritz <[email-masked]>; [email-masked]; Ken =
Knight <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Fot] Piston to head clearance

=20

I'm still burning up (precious) brain cells on this, yes interesting, =
but that's one of my questions also, exactly how was the reported gain =
established?

I've always gone with the theory that more is better when it comes to =
turbulence, which requires minimal squish clearance.

I would imagine that chamber & piston top configuration, ie flat-tops or =
a lump on top, may be part of the equation as well...

Yes compelling discussion!

=20

Glen Efinger

=20

On Friday, January 12, 2024 at 10:57:08 AM EST, Ken Knight =

=20

=20

Interesting discussion and I would agree on point.  What would =
interesting to know is how the HP change was measured; chassis dyno or =
engine dyno?

=20

Ken=20

=20

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=3D550986>  for =
Windows

=20

=20

Good point.=20

=20

On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 6:45=E2=80=AFPM <[email-masked] =

=20

=20

Cheers

Chris

=20

=20

From: Fot <[email-masked] =
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2024 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Piston to head clearance

=20

=20

Glen Efinger.

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'word-wrap:break-word'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>The measurements were made on =
a rolling road=E2=80=A6.BUT on the rolling road at the =
Nurburging.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>This dyno was in charge =
to measure the balance of performance power of the race cars under =
controlled regulations.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>This dyno was =
equipped with a custom made software to be most exact. You can say the =
reference dyno.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Why did we =
get a little gain?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>My GUESS - =
=C2=A0Two things come into play:<o:p></o:p></p><ol =
style=3D'margin-top:0cm' start=3D1 type=3D1><li class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>Turbulence =E2=80=93 =
turbulence is good to the point when it gets so strong that it blows the =
flame out or it pushes against the flame front and hinder =
it<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1'>Mathematical=E2=80=A6.assuming that you can make the gap zero =
between piston and head. The TR=E2=80=99s do have a chamber half the =
size of the piston surface. If you get the gap down to zero the pressure =
of the combustion forces on half of the piston deck: Force =3D pressure =
x area. If the area is half the size, the force is half as strong. =
Certainly this is only true on TDC as soon the piston moves downwards =
the full area of the piston deck comes in to play =
again.<o:p></o:p></li></ol><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>I guess, these little things might make this little =
gain happen.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>But, I=E2=80=99m not an =
engine developer, I only make some thoughts about it=E2=80=A6maybe not =
true and the result is just luck.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
the other hand=E2=80=A6..my car has many wins with standard crank and =
standard valve sizes. Does perform quite nice and seem to hold =
together.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Cheers<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Chris<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DDE>From:</span></b><span =
lang=3DDE> fubog1 &lt;[email-masked]&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, =
January 12, 2024 5:30 PM<br><b>To:</b> Lorne Fritz =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;; [email-masked]; Ken Knight =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> =
[email-masked]<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] Piston to head =
clearance<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>I'm still =
burning up (precious) brain cells on this, yes interesting, but that's =
one of my questions also, exactly how was the reported gain =
established?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>I've always =
gone with the theory that more is better when it comes to turbulence, =
which requires minimal squish =
clearance.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>I would =
imagine that chamber &amp; piston top configuration, ie flat-tops or a =
lump on top, may be part of the equation as =
well...<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Yes compelling =
discussion!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Glen =
Efinger<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></span></p></div></div><div =
id=3D"ydp3da3111dyahoo_quoted_5967812695"><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'>On Friday, January 12, 2024 at 10:57:08 AM EST, Ken Knight &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote: =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><div =
id=3Dydp3da3111dyiv6692933316><div><div><p =
class=3Dydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'>Interesting discussion and I would agree on point.&nbsp; What would =
interesting to know is how the HP change was measured; chassis dyno or =
engine dyno?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'>Ken <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'>Sent from <a =
href=3D"https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=3D550986" =
target=3D"_blank">Mail</a> for Windows<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><div =
id=3Dydp3da3111dyiv6692933316yqt61391><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor'><p =
class=3Dydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'>From: </span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Lorne Fritz =
via Fot</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Friday, January 12, 2024 7:13 AM<br><b>To: =
</b><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br><b>Cc: </b><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">fubog1</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Fot] Piston to head =
clearance<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3Dydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3Dydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'>Good point. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3Dydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p =
class=3Dydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'>On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 6:45=E2=80=AFPM &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm =
0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204, 204, =
204)'><div><div><div><p class=3Dydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'>That is one thing to consider.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'>When is turbulence supporting and when is turbulence overdone and =
disturbing.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'>I could imagine to force too much turbulence with a very small squish =
gap the flame front expansion is compromised, thus slows down, and =
lowers the hp output.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'>That=E2=80=99s why we had the best power with 0.047=E2=80=9D =
gap.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'>Cheers<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'>Chris<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm;border-color:currentcolor'><p =
class=3Dydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal><b><span lang=3DDE =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DDE =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'> Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>fubog1 via Fot<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 11, 2024 8:01 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> Lorne Fritz &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; Steven Belfer &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] =
Piston to head clearance</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3Dydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p =
class=3Dydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>S=
teve nailed it, both on the ##s, &amp; the importance of it.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3Dydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>I=
t depends on what rods &amp; crank, piston to wall clearance &amp; what =
RPM, but for most applications that's right in the ballpark.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3Dydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>I=
've run as little as oops not enough ie .025 or less, .028 minimum (you =
won't get any carbon deposit on the squish area), but to play it safe =
nowadays I use .030-.032</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p =
class=3Dydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>A=
lso on these engines it's not only a CR related issue, the squish is =
very critical, you want to minimize the clearance between piston top =
&amp; head to maximize the squish effect, which creates turbulence, =
which assists in good combustion...</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3Dydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>&=
nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3Dydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>G=
len Efinger.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><p =
class=3Dydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>&=
nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p =
class=3Dydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>&=
nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div =
id=3D"ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316m_986188904719810780ydpeb00682yahoo_quoted_=
5223032547"><div><div><p class=3Dydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>O=
n Thursday, January 11, 2024 at 01:00:50 PM EST, Steven Belfer via Fot =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote: </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3Dydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>&=
nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3Dydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>&=
nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3Dydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>Y=
ou want as little as necessary because this is where your high CR comes =
from.&nbsp; The thickness of the head gasket is the major part of P to H =
clearance.&nbsp; I ran .026 P to H clearance at Cal Speedway and the =
piston kissed the head and I spun a bearing.&nbsp; My machine shop guy =
likes .040 for safety but I=E2=80=99ve been running .032 and =
it=E2=80=99s working out great<br>~Steve<br><br><br>&gt; On Jan 11, =
2024, at 9:13=E2=80=AFAM, Lorne Fritz via Fot &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>&gt; <br>&gt; =
</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>=
=EF=BB=BF</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><=
br>&gt; Hi.&nbsp; In the past I have had pistons hit the head and leave =
a mark(TR3/4).&nbsp; What piston to head clearance are most of you =
running? Thanks in advance,&nbsp; Lorne<br>&gt; =
_______________________________________________<br>&gt; <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br>&gt; <br>&gt; <a =
href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br>&gt; <br>&gt; Donate: =
<a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>&gt; Archive: =
<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" =
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a><br>&gt; =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/steve@artwith=
cars.com</a></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></bloc=
kquote></div><p class=3Dydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;m=
argin-left:4.8pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><=
br>&gt; <br>&gt; =
<br>_______________________________________________<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br><br><a =
href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br><br>Donate: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Archive: <a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" =
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a><br>Unsubscribe/Ma=
nage: <a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]=
m</a></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3Dydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282=
A'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>=
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From: Andrew Devenish via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 22:45:56 +0000

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From: ralph hansen via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2024 15:16:14 +0000 (UTC)

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 I cannot really add any info for the answer but, I can add what can happen=
 if you screw things up. Decades back I built an 1147 race engine for my ca=
r. Did the popup pistons per the prep book, not much but a little above the=
 deck. All the chambers were equal size, all the pistons popped up exactly =
the same. Lots of hours and grinding/sanding to achieve this. Assemble for =
final time was Tuesday night into the wee hours of Weds am. Everything went=
 well, finished getting car ready and loaded Fri pm for RA the following da=
y. Went out for practice one Sat am. Took it easy to let things get happy i=
nside. Sat afternoon practice came so out I went. A couple laps in I went f=
or it. It was built for 8k so I went there. As I approached T11, 4th gear, =
moving towards 8k, it all went wrong. A loud bang, loss of power and that s=
ick feeling. Gauges all were normal, no smoke, no signs of leaks so I motor=
ed back to the pits on 3 cyls. After letting it cool and changing I dove in=
to it. Pulled the head and looked in. Three pistons were at the same level =
so I pushed on the odd one out and it fell into the pan. I could see the pi=
n attached to the rod, rod bent at about a 30 deg angle sideways and lots o=
f debris. All in all, I needed a rod, piston, rod bearing, intake valve and=
 the usual gaskets and fluids. Block survived without a scratch and I was r=
acing 2 weeks later. The rod was a stock rod that was shot-peened and a sto=
ck cast piston. I caused the failure by putting the wrong piston in the cyl=
, they all were withing a few thousanths of deck height and I mixed 2 up. L=
esson learned, don't assemble a race engine a couple long nights before an =
event.
Cheers,Ralph
ps. the rod might someday make a nice paper weight=C2=A0=C2=A0
    On Friday, January 12, 2024 at 06:35:50 PM CST, Andrew Devenish via Fot=
 <[email-masked]> wrote: =20
=20
 Interesting discussion. I think I read the optimal is to run as close to z=
ero as possible, but to add a slight angle to the head surface, increasing =
gap in the direction of the chamber. I can see an issue with a very small f=
lat squish, as the mass of air moving increases in that direction, so more =
area provided would be logical.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I have no=
rmally run my gap at gasket thickness, ie zero deck, but I am just building=
 a motor that will (maybe ?) run 8 thou proud.=C2=A0
Thank you,=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Andrew Devenish
Sent from my iPad

On Jan 12, 2024, at 1:33=E2=80=AFPM, Chris Marx via Fot <[email-masked]=

=EF=BB=BF

The measurements were made on a rolling road=E2=80=A6.BUT on the rolling ro=
ad at the Nurburging.
=20
This dyno was in charge to measure the balance of performance power of the =
race cars under controlled regulations.
=20
This dyno was equipped with a custom made software to be most exact. You ca=
n say the reference dyno.
=20
 =C2=A0
=20
Why did we get a little gain?
=20
My GUESS - =C2=A0Two things come into play:
   =20
   - Turbulence =E2=80=93 turbulence is good to the point when it gets so s=
trong that it blows the flame out or it pushes against the flame front and =
hinder it
   - Mathematical=E2=80=A6.assuming that you can make the gap zero between =
piston and head. The TR=E2=80=99s do have a chamber half the size of the pi=
ston surface. If you get the gap down to zero the pressure of the combustio=
n forces on half of the piston deck: Force =3D pressure x area. If the area=
 is half the size, the force is half as strong. Certainly this is only true=
 on TDC as soon the piston moves downwards the full area of the piston deck=
 comes in to play again.
=20
 =C2=A0
=20
I guess, these little things might make this little gain happen.
=20
But, I=E2=80=99m not an engine developer, I only make some thoughts about i=
t=E2=80=A6maybe not true and the result is just luck.
=20
On the other hand=E2=80=A6..my car has many wins with standard crank and st=
andard valve sizes. Does perform quite nice and seem to hold together.
=20
 =C2=A0
=20
Cheers
=20
Chris
=20
 =C2=A0
=20
 =C2=A0
=20
From: fubog1 <[email-masked]>
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2024 5:30 PM
To: Lorne Fritz <[email-masked]>; [email-masked]; Ken Knig=
ht <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Fot] Piston to head clearance
=20
 =C2=A0
=20
I'm still burning up (precious) brain cells on this, yes interesting, but t=
hat's one of my questions also, exactly how was the reported gain establish=
ed?
=20
I've always gone with the theory that more is better when it comes to turbu=
lence, which requires minimal squish clearance.
=20
I would imagine that chamber & piston top configuration, ie flat-tops or a =
lump on top, may be part of the equation as well...
=20
Yes compelling discussion!
=20
 =C2=A0
=20
Glen Efinger
=20
 =C2=A0
=20
On Friday, January 12, 2024 at 10:57:08 AM EST, Ken Knight <kknight@klaenv.=
com> wrote:
=20
 =C2=A0
=20
 =C2=A0
=20
Interesting discussion and I would agree on point.=C2=A0 What would interes=
ting to know is how the HP change was measured; chassis dyno or engine dyno=
?
=20
=C2=A0
=20
Ken
=20
=C2=A0
=20
Sent fromMail for Windows
=20
=C2=A0
=20
From:Lorne Fritz via Fot
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2024 7:13 AM
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked];fubog1
Subject: Re: [Fot] Piston to head clearance
=20
=C2=A0
=20
Good point.
=20
=C2=A0
=20
On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 6:45=E2=80=AFPM <[email-masked]> wrote:
=20

From: Fot <[email-masked]>On Behalf Of fubog1 via Fot

> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archivehttp://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
thcars.com
=20

Archive: http://autox.team.net/archivehttp://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
m
=20
=C2=A0
 _______________________________________________
[email-masked]

com

com

 =20
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"ydp45ef0317yahoo-style-wrap" style=
=3D"font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px=
;"><div></div>
        <div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">I cannot really add any info=
 for the answer but, I can add what can happen if you screw things up. Deca=
des back I built an 1147 race engine for my car. Did the popup pistons per =
the prep book, not much but a little above the deck. All the chambers were =
equal size, all the pistons popped up exactly the same. Lots of hours and g=
rinding/sanding to achieve this. Assemble for final time was Tuesday night =
into the wee hours of Weds am. Everything went well, finished getting car r=
eady and loaded Fri pm for RA the following day. Went out for practice one =
Sat am. Took it easy to let things get happy inside. Sat afternoon practice=
 came so out I went. A couple laps in I went for it. It was built for 8k so=
 I went there. As I approached T11, 4th gear, moving towards 8k, it all wen=
t wrong. A loud bang, loss of power and that sick feeling. Gauges all were =
normal, no smoke, no signs of leaks so I motored back to the pits on 3 cyls=
. After letting it cool and changing I dove into it. Pulled the head and lo=
oked in. Three pistons were at the same level so I pushed on the odd one ou=
t and it fell into the pan. I could see the pin attached to the rod, rod be=
nt at about a 30 deg angle sideways and lots of debris. All in all, I neede=
d a rod, piston, rod bearing, intake valve and the usual gaskets and fluids=
. Block survived without a scratch and I was racing 2 weeks later. The rod =
was a stock rod that was shot-peened and a stock cast piston. I caused the =
failure by putting the wrong piston in the cyl, they all were withing a few=
 thousanths of deck height and I mixed 2 up. Lesson learned, don't assemble=
 a race engine a couple long nights before an event.</div><div dir=3D"ltr" =
data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Chee=
rs,</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Ralph</div><div dir=3D"ltr"=
 data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">ps.=
 the rod might someday make a nice paper weight&nbsp;&nbsp;</div><div><br><=
/div>
       =20
        </div><div id=3D"ydp8bd50308yahoo_quoted_5376023697" class=3D"ydp8b=
d50308yahoo_quoted">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
                <div>
                    On Friday, January 12, 2024 at 06:35:50 PM CST, Andrew =
Devenish via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><div id=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724"><div>
Interesting discussion. I think I read the optimal is to run as close to ze=
ro as possible, but to add a slight angle to the head surface, increasing g=
ap in the direction of the chamber. I can see an issue with a very small fl=
at squish, as the mass of air moving
 increases in that direction, so more area provided would be logical.
<div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I have normally run my gap at gaske=
t thickness, ie zero deck, but I am just building a motor that will (maybe =
?) run 8 thou proud.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Thank you,&nbsp;
<div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Andrew Devenish</div>
<div>
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div>Sent from my iPad</div>
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724yqt66384" class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527=
724yqt4561819643"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none">
<blockquote type=3D"cite">On Jan 12, 2024, at 1:33=E2=80=AFPM, Chris Marx v=
ia Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF
</div></blockquote></div></div></div><div id=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724yqt=
85797" class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724yqt4561819643"><div><div class=3D"y=
dp8bd50308yiv9028527724WordSection1">
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal">The measurements were made o=
n a rolling road=E2=80=A6.BUT on the rolling road at the Nurburging.</p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal">This dyno was in charge to m=
easure the balance of performance power of the race cars under controlled r=
egulations.</p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal">This dyno was equipped with =
a custom made software to be most exact. You can say the reference dyno.</p=
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal">Why did we get a little gain=
?</p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal">My GUESS - &nbsp;Two things =
come into play:</p>=20
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm;" start=3D"1" type=3D"1"><li style=3D"margin-le=
ft:0cm;" class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoListParagraph">Turbulence =E2=
=80=93 turbulence is good to the point when it gets so strong that it blows=
 the flame out or it pushes against the flame front and hinder it</li><li s=
tyle=3D"margin-left:0cm;" class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoListParagraph=
">Mathematical=E2=80=A6.assuming that you can make the gap zero between pis=
ton and head. The TR=E2=80=99s do have a chamber half the size of the pisto=
n surface. If you get the gap down to zero the pressure
 of the combustion forces on half of the piston deck: Force =3D pressure x =
area. If the area is half the size, the force is half as strong. Certainly =
this is only true on TDC as soon the piston moves downwards the full area o=
f the piston deck comes in to play
 again.</li></ol>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal">I guess, these little things=
 might make this little gain happen.</p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal">But, I=E2=80=99m not an engi=
ne developer, I only make some thoughts about it=E2=80=A6maybe not true and=
 the result is just luck.</p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal">On the other hand=E2=80=A6..=
my car has many wins with standard crank and standard valve sizes. Does per=
form quite nice and seem to hold together.</p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal">Cheers</p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal">Chris</p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</p>=20
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm;">
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"DE">From:</=
span></b><span lang=3D"DE"> fubog1 &lt;[email-masked]&gt;
<br clear=3D"none">
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 12, 2024 5:30 PM<br clear=3D"none">
<b>To:</b> Lorne Fritz &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; tr4racing@googlemail.=
com; Ken Knight &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
<b>Cc:</b> [email-masked]<br clear=3D"none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] Piston to head clearance</span></p>=20
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</p>=20
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.=
0pt;font-family:sans-serif;">I'm still burning up (precious) brain cells on=
 this, yes interesting, but that's one of my questions also, exactly how wa=
s the reported gain established?</span></p>=20
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.=
0pt;font-family:sans-serif;">I've always gone with the theory that more is =
better when it comes to turbulence, which requires minimal squish clearance=
.</span></p>=20
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.=
0pt;font-family:sans-serif;">I would imagine that chamber &amp; piston top =
configuration, ie flat-tops or a lump on top, may be part of the equation a=
s well...</span></p>=20
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.=
0pt;font-family:sans-serif;">Yes compelling discussion!</span></p>=20
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.=
0pt;font-family:sans-serif;"> &nbsp;</span></p>=20
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.=
0pt;font-family:sans-serif;">Glen Efinger</span></p>=20
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.=
0pt;font-family:sans-serif;"> &nbsp;</span></p>=20
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyahoo_quoted_5967812695">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.=
0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">On Friday, January 12, 2024 at 1=
0:57:08 AM EST, Ken Knight &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:kknight@kla=
env.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrot=
e:
</span></p>=20
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.=
0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"> &nbsp;</span></p>=20
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.=
0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"> &nbsp;</span></p>=20
</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">Interest=
ing discussion and I would agree on point.&nbsp; What would interesting to =
know is how the HP change was measured; chassis dyno or
 engine dyno?</span></p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">&nbsp;</=
span></p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">Ken
</span></p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">&nbsp;</=
span></p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">Sent fro=
m
<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=3D550986"=
 rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">Mail</a> for Windows</span></p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">&nbsp;</=
span></p>=20
<div id=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316yqt61391">
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0=
cm 0cm 0cm;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor;">
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><b><=
span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26=
282A;"><a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow=
" target=3D"_blank">Lorne Fritz via Fot</a><br clear=3D"none">
<b>Sent: </b>Friday, January 12, 2024 7:13 AM<br clear=3D"none">
<b>To: </b><a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=
=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br clear=3D"no=
ne">
<b>Cc: </b><a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofo=
llow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>;
<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D=
"_blank">fubog1</a><br clear=3D"none">
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Fot] Piston to head clearance</span></p>=20
</div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">&nbsp;</=
span></p>=20
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">Good poi=
nt.
</span></p>=20
</div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">&nbsp;</=
span></p>=20
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">On Thu, =
Jan 11, 2024 at 6:45=E2=80=AFPM &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:tr4rac=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">tr4racing@googlemail=
.com</a>&gt; wrote:</span></p>=20
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding=
:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;marg=
in-bottom:5.0pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204=
, 204, 204);">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">That is =
one thing to consider.</span></p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">When is =
turbulence supporting and when is turbulence overdone and disturbing.</span=
></p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">&nbsp;</=
span></p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">I could =
imagine to force too much turbulence with a very small squish gap the flame=
 front expansion is compromised, thus slows down,
 and lowers the hp output.</span></p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">That=E2=
=80=99s why we had the best power with 0.047=E2=80=9D gap.</span></p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">&nbsp;</=
span></p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">Cheers</=
span></p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">Chris</s=
pan></p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">&nbsp;</=
span></p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">&nbsp;</=
span></p>=20
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0=
cm 0cm 0cm;border-color:currentcolor;">
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><b><=
span lang=3D"DE" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26=
282A;">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"DE" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"> Fot &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:fo=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">fot-bounces@au=
tox.team.net</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>fubog1 via Fot<br clear=3D"none">
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 11, 2024 8:01 PM<br clear=3D"none">
<b>To:</b> Lorne Fritz &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:lorne.fritz@gma=
il.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; S=
teven Belfer &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" re=
l=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"=
none">
<b>Cc:</b> <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofo=
llow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br clear=3D"none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] Piston to head clearance</span><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"></span></p>=20
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">&nbsp;</=
span></p>=20
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">Steve na=
iled it, both on the ##s, &amp; the importance of it.</span><span style=3D"=
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"></span></p>=20
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">It depen=
ds on what rods &amp; crank, piston to wall clearance &amp; what RPM, but f=
or most applications that's right in the ballpark.</span><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"></span></p>=20
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">I've run=
 as little as oops not enough ie .025 or less, .028 minimum (you won't get =
any carbon deposit on the squish area), but to play it
 safe nowadays I use .030-.032</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"></span></p>=20
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">Also on =
these engines it's not only a CR related issue, the squish is very critical=
, you want to minimize the clearance between piston top
 &amp; head to maximize the squish effect, which creates turbulence, which =
assists in good combustion...</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"></span></p>=20
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">&nbsp;</=
span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"=
></span></p>=20
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">Glen Efi=
nger.</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#2=
6282A;"></span></p>=20
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">&nbsp;</=
span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"=
></span></p>=20
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">&nbsp;</=
span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"=
></span></p>=20
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316m_98618890471981=
0780ydpeb00682yahoo_quoted_5223032547">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">On Thurs=
day, January 11, 2024 at 01:00:50 PM EST, Steven Belfer via Fot &lt;<a shap=
e=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_b=
lank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
 wrote: </span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color=
:#26282A;"></span></p>=20
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">&nbsp;</=
span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"=
></span></p>=20
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">&nbsp;</=
span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"=
></span></p>=20
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">You want=
 as little as necessary because this is where your high CR comes from.&nbsp=
; The thickness of the head gasket is the major part of P
 to H clearance.&nbsp; I ran .026 P to H clearance at Cal Speedway and the =
piston kissed the head and I spun a bearing.&nbsp; My machine shop guy like=
s .040 for safety but I=E2=80=99ve been running .032 and it=E2=80=99s worki=
ng out great<br clear=3D"none">
~Steve<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; On Jan 11, 2024, at 9:13=E2=80=AFAM, Lorne Fritz via Fot &lt;<a shape=
=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_bl=
ank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; <br clear=3D"none">
&gt; </span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#2=
6282A;">=EF=BB=BF</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-se=
rif;color:#26282A;"><br clear=3D"none">
&gt; Hi.&nbsp; In the past I have had pistons hit the head and leave a mark=
(TR3/4).&nbsp; What piston to head clearance are most of you running? Thank=
s in advance,&nbsp; Lorne<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; _______________________________________________<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br clear=3D"none">
&gt; <br clear=3D"none">
&gt; <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br clear=3D"none">
&gt; <br clear=3D"none">
&gt; Donate: <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" rel=
=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br clea=
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&gt; Unsubscribe/Manage: <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://autox.team.net/ma=
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span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"></spa=
n></p>=20
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;" class=
=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"><br =
clear=3D"none">
&gt; <br clear=3D"none">
&gt; <br clear=3D"none">
_______________________________________________<br clear=3D"none">
<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" targe=
t=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br clear=3D"none">
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ofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br clear=3D"=
none">
Archive: <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"no=
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/options/fot/[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a></span><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"></span></p>=
=20
</div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">&nbsp;</=
span></p>=20
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br clear=3D"no=
ne">
<span>[email-masked]</span><br clear=3D"none">
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et=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><=
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