Subject: Re: [Fot] Slave cylinder/master cylinder

From: Bob Kramer Gmail via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 18:00:18 -0500

I don’t know why the fluid in the clutch master cylinders gets nasty so quickly, but it does. I start my CMC bleeding process by sucking out all the old fluid from the reservoir, wiping it out and filling with fresh fluid. I make sure to use all the first fill in the bleeding process so I know all the older fluid has passed out of the slave cylinder. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 27, 2023, at 1:46 PM, J Wagner via Fot <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, assuming the seals are sound, as suggested, simple bleeding could be the fix.  Water/Air in the system, expanding with heat,  could be taking up some of the pressure required to release the clutch.  (Think brake fade.)
> 
> And how old are the seals in the cylinders?  Maybe the general thermal expansion in the cylinders and/or heated fluid and rubber, is just enough to cause some failure of aging seals?
> 
> While it’s messy, and it’s been a while for my 4A, after an initial bleed at the slave to just get the system filled with fresh fluid, I used to bleed the master before a final bleed of the slave, by loosening the line ahead of the slave (with the slave nipple closed) as if it were a bleeding nipple.  (loosen, push, hold, tighten, repeat… clean up fluid as it’s a blind bleed into a rag)  Then do a final bleed at the slave nipple.  That always seemed to make it all go faster, relatively effortless.   (I always thought to make some sort of custom bleed screw between the master and slave, but never did.)  
> 
> Between owning British cars, doing my own plumbing for decades, and working water gag special fx in the film buiz, I feel like I should get an honorary PhD in general hydraulics, though, I am quite aware, I still only know .002% about them.  Ok, even less.  
> 
> —Justin 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On May 27, 2023, at 9:36 AM, Philip Gott via Fot <[email-masked]> wrote:
>> 
>> Have you tried bleeding it?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On May 27, 2023, at 11:16 AM, McKearn McKearn via Fot <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi all.
>>> Got the GT6 out a few days ago and remembered that I was going to fix the clutch problem I had last fall before I stored it away   but did'nt ..
>>> So long story short, I don't know if it's the slave cyl or master cylinder but it works fine at first few shifts but as you drive it you get less and less clutch movement.
>>> Seems like if you let it set a while it will work  again..
>>> Any ideas?
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> [email-masked]
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From: Philip Gott via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 06:12:27 -0400

That nasty black stuff that accumulates in the master cylinder is small bits of the rubber seals that get worn off during operation. The modern fluids are generally less lubrous than those of the time when these systems were designed.
One wise FOT-er put us into Motul 600 as a good high boiling point brake fluid that also has good lubrication qualities.
For clutches we use the Quartermaster Clutch Hydraulic Fluid. It is VERY slippery and dies the trick for clutch systems. Not intended for brakes, however.
Phil Gott

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 27, 2023, at 7:00 PM, Bob Kramer Gmail <[email-masked]> wrote:
>

---

From: McKearn McKearn via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 22:13:34 -0500

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Hey friends.
Just wanted to give an update on the clutch thing.
  I took some wise advice and sucked all the black crap out of the master
cyl. then wiped it clean and ran about a cup of fresh fluid through.  I
opened up the slave cyl. and drained out as much as I could. then refilled
and bled everything.
   Seams perfect  now but then it felt perfect before too.
There was no sign of leakage anywhere so the external seals must be fine.
I'm a bit suspicious of the slave cylinder I replaced last fall as it was a
BP Northwest product. Some sort of Asian knockoff.   I guess we will see
what comes to pass.
               Thanks for the replies.
                                   P.J.
Looking forward to seeing you all at the K cup

On Sat, May 27, 2023 at 6:12=E2=80=AFPM Bob Kramer Gmail via Fot <fot@autox=
.team.net>
wrote:

> I don=E2=80=99t know why the fluid in the clutch master cylinders gets na=
sty so
> quickly, but it does. I start my CMC bleeding process by sucking out all
> the old fluid from the reservoir, wiping it out and filling with fresh
> fluid. I make sure to use all the first fill in the bleeding process so I
> know all the older fluid has passed out of the slave cylinder.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > =EF=BB=BF
> > Yes, assuming the seals are sound, as suggested, simple bleeding could
> be the fix.  Water/Air in the system, expanding with heat,  could be taki=
ng
> up some of the pressure required to release the clutch.  (Think brake fad=
e.)
> >
> > And how old are the seals in the cylinders?  Maybe the general thermal
> expansion in the cylinders and/or heated fluid and rubber, is just enough
> to cause some failure of aging seals?
> >
> > While it=E2=80=99s messy, and it=E2=80=99s been a while for my 4A, afte=
r an initial
> bleed at the slave to just get the system filled with fresh fluid, I used
> to bleed the master before a final bleed of the slave, by loosening the
> line ahead of the slave (with the slave nipple closed) as if it were a
> bleeding nipple.  (loosen, push, hold, tighten, repeat=E2=80=A6 clean up =
fluid as
> it=E2=80=99s a blind bleed into a rag)  Then do a final bleed at the slav=
e nipple.
> That always seemed to make it all go faster, relatively effortless.   (I
> always thought to make some sort of custom bleed screw between the master
> and slave, but never did.)
> >
> > Between owning British cars, doing my own plumbing for decades, and
> working water gag special fx in the film buiz, I feel like I should get a=
n
> honorary PhD in general hydraulics, though, I am quite aware, I still onl=
y
> know .002% about them.  Ok, even less.
> >
> > =E2=80=94Justin
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> =EF=BB=BFHave you tried bleeding it?
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>> =EF=BB=BF
> >>> Got the GT6 out a few days ago and remembered that I was going to fix
> the clutch problem I had last fall before I stored it away   but did'nt .=
.
> >>> So long story short, I don't know if it's the slave cyl or master
> cylinder but it works fine at first few shifts but as you drive it you ge=
t
> less and less clutch movement.
> >>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
> >>
> >>
> > Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fo=
t
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> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
> >
> >
> Unsubscribe/Manage <http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage>:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hey friends.<div>Just wanted to give an update on the clut=
ch thing.</div><div>=C2=A0 I took some wise advice and sucked all the black=
 crap out of the master cyl. then wiped it clean and ran about a cup of fre=
sh fluid through.=C2=A0 I opened up the slave cyl. and drained out as much =
as I could. then refilled and bled everything.</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Seams=
 perfect=C2=A0 now but then it felt perfect before too.=C2=A0</div><div>The=
re was no sign of leakage anywhere so the external seals must be fine.=C2=
=A0 I&#39;m a bit suspicious of the slave cylinder I replaced last fall as =
it was a BP Northwest product. Some sort of Asian knockoff.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I g=
uess we will see what comes to pass.</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thanks for the replies.</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0P.J.</div><div>Looking forward to see=
ing you all at the K cup<br><div><br></div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gm=
ail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, May 27, 2023 at 6:=
12=E2=80=AFPM Bob Kramer Gmail via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
.net">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204=
,204);padding-left:1ex">I don=E2=80=99t know why the fluid in the clutch ma=
ster cylinders gets nasty so quickly, but it does. I start my CMC bleeding =
process by sucking out all the old fluid from the reservoir, wiping it out =
and filling with fresh fluid. I make sure to use all the first fill in the =
bleeding process so I know all the older fluid has passed out of the slave =
cylinder. <br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone<br>
<br>
&gt; On May 27, 2023, at 1:46 PM, J Wagner via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fo=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; =EF=BB=BF<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Yes, assuming the seals are sound, as suggested, simple bleeding could=
 be the fix.=C2=A0 Water/Air in the system, expanding with heat,=C2=A0 coul=
d be taking up some of the pressure required to release the clutch.=C2=A0 (=
Think brake fade.)<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; And how old are the seals in the cylinders?=C2=A0 Maybe the general th=
ermal expansion in the cylinders and/or heated fluid and rubber, is just en=
ough to cause some failure of aging seals?<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; While it=E2=80=99s messy, and it=E2=80=99s been a while for my 4A, aft=
er an initial bleed at the slave to just get the system filled with fresh f=
luid, I used to bleed the master before a final bleed of the slave, by loos=
ening the line ahead of the slave (with the slave nipple closed) as if it w=
ere a bleeding nipple.=C2=A0 (loosen, push, hold, tighten, repeat=E2=80=A6 =
clean up fluid as it=E2=80=99s a blind bleed into a rag)=C2=A0 Then do a fi=
nal bleed at the slave nipple.=C2=A0 That always seemed to make it all go f=
aster, relatively effortless.=C2=A0 =C2=A0(I always thought to make some so=
rt of custom bleed screw between the master and slave, but never did.)=C2=
=A0 <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Between owning British cars, doing my own plumbing for decades, and wo=
rking water gag special fx in the film buiz, I feel like I should get an ho=
norary PhD in general hydraulics, though, I am quite aware, I still only kn=
ow .002% about them.=C2=A0 Ok, even less.=C2=A0 <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; =E2=80=94Justin <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; On May 27, 2023, at 9:36 AM, Philip Gott via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote=
:<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; =EF=BB=BFHave you tried bleeding it?<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; Sent from my iPhone<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On May 27, 2023, at 11:16 AM, McKearn McKearn via Fot &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]<=
/a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; =EF=BB=BF<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi all.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Got the GT6 out a few days ago and remembered that I was going=
 to fix the clutch problem I had last fall before I stored it away=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0but did&#39;nt ..<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; So long story short, I don&#39;t know if it&#39;s the slave cy=
l or master cylinder but it works fine at first few shifts but as you drive=
 it you get less and less clutch movement.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Seems like if you let it set a while it will work=C2=A0 again.=
.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Any ideas?<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">fot@au=
tox.team.net</a><br>
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