Subject: Re: [Fot] Pistons

From: Philip Gott via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2023 08:08:04 -0500

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Everyone making good points, but just to th=
row this out there: we=E2=80=99ve built a couple of =E2=80=9Cbudget=E2=80=9D=
 engines with cast flat top pistons to good effect. &nbsp;We shift at 6000 a=
nd have good life and good power (over 140 Hp at the wheels). So you can run=
 those with no fear if set up correctly.<div>With forged pistons set to prop=
er clearance we would expect less sliding friction and hence more power ( th=
e pistons are the single biggest area of friction-based parasitic loss in an=
 engine) due to both slipper design and less distortion under load for forge=
d pistons. &nbsp;Have been building an engine with Arias pistons (yes, they a=
re now owned by Carillo) - it=E2=80=99s been a work in progress for a while,=
 and Dave now running Wiseco pistons.</div><div>You choose your path and mak=
e it work, just =E2=80=9Cdon=E2=80=99t be beaten by equipment!=E2=80=9D</div=
><div>Phil Gott<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Feb 4, 2023, at 3:06 AM, Chris Marx v=
ia Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquo=
te type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type"=
 content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"><meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"=
Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style>@font-face { font-family: Helvet=
ica; }
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ne; }
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<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div class=3D"WordSection1"><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal"><span lang=3D"DE">Hi Tony,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al"><span lang=3D"DE"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">reg=
ardless what the manufacturer says I set forged pistons on 0,13mm clearance.=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Runs forever, never any issues, no pis=
ton slap. That=E2=80=99s my engine man recommended and so we did.<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">My TR4 runs on the same pistons now for 10 years w=
ith one change of rings inbetween.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On aluminum engines =E2=80=93 differ=
ent story.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal">Cheers<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Chris<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div style=3D"border:no=
ne;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal"><b><span lang=3D"DE">Von:</span></b><span lang=3D"DE"> Fot &lt;fot-b=
[email-masked]&gt; <b>Im Auftrag von </b>Tony Sheach via Fot<br><b>Ge=
sendet:</b> Freitag, 3. Februar 2023 17:44<br><b>An:</b> DAVE HOGYE &lt;dlho=
[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> Erik Jacobsen via Fot &lt;[email-masked]=
et&gt;<br><b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Fot] Pistons<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi folks=
 <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have a set of Wiseco 89mm pistons that i bought may=
be 10 years ago I was going to use in a torquey rally engine with a set of C=
arillo rods - is there an issue with piston / liner clearances as some have s=
aid ? Or is it just a question of not letting the engine run over hot ?<o:p>=
</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have Venolia=E2=80=99s in my other bigger capacity e=
ngine and they have been great, but I=E2=80=99m not so sure about Uk supply a=
ny more. They also needed the longer Carillo rods, so if I go that route I e=
nd up with a set of pistons I don=E2=80=99t need.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
>What=E2=80=99s the advice from the wise ?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regard=
s<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div=
><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">Tony&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Sent from my iPad<o:p></o:p></p></div><=
div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>On 3 Feb 2023,=
 at 16:22, DAVE HOGYE via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">fot@=
autox.team.net</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
">=EF=BB=BF <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#333333">I bel=
ieve that J&amp;E owns Wiseco.&nbsp; The Kipp family in Ohio started Wiseco a=
nd owned it until a few years ago.&nbsp; I found this out when I called J&am=
p;E about ordering pistons, or I called Wiseco.&nbsp; Can't remember who I c=
alled first.&nbsp; Tom Kipp was a top AMA Super Sports and Super Bike racer d=
uring the '90s.&nbsp; Wiseco was a big sponsor of AMA and might still be.&nb=
sp; I installed a Wiseco 1200cc piston kit in my '93 H-D Sportster way back i=
n the '90s.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;c=
olor:#333333">Dave H.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style=3D=
"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 02/03/=
2023 4:41 AM Erik Jacobsen via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
>[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote: <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></p></blockquote><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0p=
t">_______________________________________________<br><a href=3D"mailto:fot@=
autox.team.net">[email-masked]</a><br><br><a href=3D"http://www.fot-raci=
ng.com">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.t=
eam.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Archive: <a href=
=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive">http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a href=
=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a>=
<br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot=
/[email-masked]">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tony.shea=
[email-masked]</a><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><span>____________=
___________________________________</span><br><span>[email-masked]</span=
><br><span></span><br><span>http://www.fot-racing.com</span><br><span></span=
><br><span>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html</span><br><span>Archive: h=
ttp://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</span><br><sp=
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l.com</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br></div></blockquote></div><=
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_______________________________________________
[email-masked]

http://www.fot-racing.com

Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot

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From: Ken Knight via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2023 06:41:48 -0800

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You can easily run .0025-.003 clearance with forged and coated pistons if y=
ou have a torque plate, a machine shop with the proper equipment to hone th=
e liners, the right oil and a cooling system that works.  Blueprinting the =
block cooling passages is a big factor in this.  My last engine had +50 ful=
l races + qualifying and practice with 3% leak down on the rings.  Valves n=
eeded attention several times before bottom end.  Striped ring gear in 2nd =
under power spun at motor to 8,700 rpm where cam broke.  While bottom held =
and still turned the result ended that motor for good.  You simple blueprin=
t TR engines like a Small Block Chevy V8 race engine.  They have done all t=
he tech and developed all the parts.  That=E2=80=99s my 2 cents.
Ken=20

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Philip Gott via Fot
Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2023 5:28 AM
To: [email-masked]; Friends Of Triumph
Subject: Re: [Fot] Pistons

Everyone making good points, but just to throw this out there: we=E2=80=99v=
e built a couple of =E2=80=9Cbudget=E2=80=9D engines with cast flat top pis=
tons to good effect. =C2=A0We shift at 6000 and have good life and good pow=
er (over 140 Hp at the wheels). So you can run those with no fear if set up=
 correctly.
With forged pistons set to proper clearance we would expect less sliding fr=
iction and hence more power ( the pistons are the single biggest area of fr=
iction-based parasitic loss in an engine) due to both slipper design and le=
ss distortion under load for forged pistons. =C2=A0Have been building an en=
gine with Arias pistons (yes, they are now owned by Carillo) - it=E2=80=99s=
 been a work in progress for a while, and Dave now running Wiseco pistons.
You choose your path and make it work, just =E2=80=9Cdon=E2=80=99t be beate=
n by equipment!=E2=80=9D
Phil Gott
Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 4, 2023, at 3:06 AM, Chris Marx via Fot <[email-masked]> wrote:
=EF=BB=BF
Hi Tony,
=C2=A0
regardless what the manufacturer says I set forged pistons on 0,13mm cleara=
nce.
Runs forever, never any issues, no piston slap. That=E2=80=99s my engine ma=
n recommended and so we did.
My TR4 runs on the same pistons now for 10 years with one change of rings i=
nbetween.
=C2=A0
On aluminum engines =E2=80=93 different story.
=C2=A0
Cheers
Chris
=C2=A0
Von: Fot <[email-masked]> Im Auftrag von Tony Sheach via Fot
Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Februar 2023 17:44
An: DAVE HOGYE <[email-masked]>
Cc: Erik Jacobsen via Fot <[email-masked]>
Betreff: Re: [Fot] Pistons
=C2=A0
Hi folks=20
=C2=A0
I have a set of Wiseco 89mm pistons that i bought maybe 10 years ago I was =
going to use in a torquey rally engine with a set of Carillo rods - is ther=
e an issue with piston / liner clearances as some have said ? Or is it just=
 a question of not letting the engine run over hot ?
=C2=A0
I have Venolia=E2=80=99s in my other bigger capacity engine and they have b=
een great, but I=E2=80=99m not so sure about Uk supply any more. They also =
needed the longer Carillo rods, so if I go that route I end up with a set o=
f pistons I don=E2=80=99t need.
=C2=A0
What=E2=80=99s the advice from the wise ?
=C2=A0
Regards
=C2=A0
Tony=C2=A0
Sent from my iPad

On 3 Feb 2023, at 16:22, DAVE HOGYE via Fot <[email-masked]> wrote:
=EF=BB=BF=20
I believe that J&E owns Wiseco.=C2=A0 The Kipp family in Ohio started Wisec=
o and owned it until a few years ago.=C2=A0 I found this out when I called =
J&E about ordering pistons, or I called Wiseco.=C2=A0 Can't remember who I =
called first.=C2=A0 Tom Kipp was a top AMA Super Sports and Super Bike race=
r during the '90s.=C2=A0 Wiseco was a big sponsor of AMA and might still be=
.=C2=A0 I installed a Wiseco 1200cc piston kit in my '93 H-D Sportster way =
back in the '90s.=C2=A0=20
Dave H.=C2=A0=20
On 02/03/2023 4:41 AM Erik Jacobsen via Fot <[email-masked]> wrote:=20
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
_______________________________________________
[email-masked]

ive.co.uk

com

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--></style></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3D"#954F72" style=3D=
'word-wrap:break-word'><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>You c=
an easily run .0025-.003 clearance with forged and coated pistons if you ha=
ve a torque plate, a machine shop with the proper equipment to hone the lin=
ers, the right oil and a cooling system that works.=C2=A0 Blueprinting the =
block cooling passages is a big factor in this.=C2=A0 My last engine had +5=
0 full races + qualifying and practice with 3% leak down on the rings.=C2=
=A0 Valves needed attention several times before bottom end.=C2=A0 Striped =
ring gear in 2<sup>nd</sup> under power spun at motor to 8,700 rpm where ca=
m broke.=C2=A0 While bottom held and still turned the result ended that mot=
or for good.=C2=A0 You simple blueprint TR engines like a Small Block Chevy=
 V8 race engine.=C2=A0 They have done all the tech and developed all the pa=
rts.=C2=A0 That=E2=80=99s my 2 cents.</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Ken </p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Sent from <a href=
=3D"https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=3D550986">Mail</a> for Windows<=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div style=3D'mso-element:para=
-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0i=
n 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'border:none;padding:0in'><b>From: </b>=
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">Philip Gott via Fot</a><br><b>Sent: <=
/b>Saturday, February 4, 2023 5:28 AM<br><b>To: </b><a href=3D"mailto:tr4ra=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:fot@au=
tox.team.net">Friends Of Triumph</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Fot] Pistons</=
p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Ever=
yone making good points, but just to throw this out there: we=E2=80=99ve bu=
ilt a couple of =E2=80=9Cbudget=E2=80=9D engines with cast flat top pistons=
 to good effect. &nbsp;We shift at 6000 and have good life and good power (=
over 140 Hp at the wheels). So you can run those with no fear if set up cor=
rectly.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>With forged pistons set to =
proper clearance we would expect less sliding friction and hence more power=
 ( the pistons are the single biggest area of friction-based parasitic loss=
 in an engine) due to both slipper design and less distortion under load fo=
r forged pistons. &nbsp;Have been building an engine with Arias pistons (ye=
s, they are now owned by Carillo) - it=E2=80=99s been a work in progress fo=
r a while, and Dave now running Wiseco pistons.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal>You choose your path and make it work, just =E2=80=9Cdon=
=E2=80=99t be beaten by equipment!=E2=80=9D<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Phil Gott<o:p></o:p></p><div>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;m=
argin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>On =
Feb 4, 2023, at 3:06 AM, Chris Marx via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrot=
e:<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;m=
argin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>=EF=BB=BF<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DDE>Hi Tony,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oNormal><span lang=3DDE>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>re=
gardless what the manufacturer says I set forged pistons on 0,13mm clearanc=
e.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Runs forever, never any issues, no pi=
ston slap. That=E2=80=99s my engine man recommended and so we did.<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>My TR4 runs on the same pistons now for 10 years=
 with one change of rings inbetween.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nb=
sp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>On aluminum engines =E2=80=93 differ=
ent story.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal>Cheers<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Chris<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;bo=
rder-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l><b><span lang=3DDE>Von:</span></b><span lang=3DDE> Fot &lt;fot-bounces@au=
tox.team.net&gt; <b>Im Auftrag von </b>Tony Sheach via Fot<br><b>Gesendet:<=
/b> Freitag, 3. Februar 2023 17:44<br><b>An:</b> DAVE HOGYE &lt;dlhogye@com=
cast.net&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> Erik Jacobsen via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt;=
<br><b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Fot] Pistons</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Hi folks <o:p></=
o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal>I have a set of Wiseco 89mm pistons that i bought maybe 10 yea=
rs ago I was going to use in a torquey rally engine with a set of Carillo r=
ods - is there an issue with piston / liner clearances as some have said ? =
Or is it just a question of not letting the engine run over hot ?<o:p></o:p=
></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal>I have Venolia=E2=80=99s in my other bigger capacity engine =
and they have been great, but I=E2=80=99m not so sure about Uk supply any m=
ore. They also needed the longer Carillo rods, so if I go that route I end =
up with a set of pistons I don=E2=80=99t need.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>What=
=E2=80=99s the advice from the wise ?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DM=
soNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Regards<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Tony&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Sent from my iPad<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>On 3 Feb 2023, at 16:22, =
DAVE HOGYE via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"><span style=3D=
'color:#0563C1'>[email-masked]</span></a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>=EF=BB=BF <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;colo=
r:#333333'>I believe that J&amp;E owns Wiseco.&nbsp; The Kipp family in Ohi=
o started Wiseco and owned it until a few years ago.&nbsp; I found this out=
 when I called J&amp;E about ordering pistons, or I called Wiseco.&nbsp; Ca=
n't remember who I called first.&nbsp; Tom Kipp was a top AMA Super Sports =
and Super Bike racer during the '90s.&nbsp; Wiseco was a big sponsor of AMA=
 and might still be.&nbsp; I installed a Wiseco 1200cc piston kit in my '93=
 H-D Sportster way back in the '90s.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetic=
a",sans-serif;color:#333333'>Dave H.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><blo=
ckquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal>On 02/03/2023 4:41 AM Erik Jacobsen via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fot=
@autox.team.net"><span style=3D'color:#0563C1'>[email-masked]</span></a=
>&gt; wrote: <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:=
p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica=
",sans-serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=
=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>_______________________________=
________________<br><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"><span style=3D'co=
lor:#0563C1'>[email-masked]</span></a><br><br><a href=3D"http://www.fot=
-racing.com"><span style=3D'color:#0563C1'>http://www.fot-racing.com</span>=
</a><br><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"><span style=
=3D'color:#0563C1'>http://www.team.net/donate.html</span></a><br>Archive: <=
a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive"><span style=3D'color:#0563C1'>http=
://autox.team.net/archive</span></a> <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/piperma=
il/fot"><span style=3D'color:#0563C1'>http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</sp=
an></a><br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/opt=
ions/fot/[email-masked]"><span style=3D'color:#0563C1'>http://autox=
.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</span></a><br><br><br>=
<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote></div><p class=3DMsoNormal st=
yle=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin=
-left:.5in'>_______________________________________________<br>[email-masked]=
am.net<br><br>http://www.fot-racing.com<br><br>Donate: http://www.team.net/=
donate.html<br>Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/p=
ipermail/fot<br>Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/f=
ot/[email-masked]<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></p></div></body></html>=

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From: Chris Marx via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2023 18:59:28 +0100

This is a multipart message in MIME format.

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Good power Phil.

=20

Mine has about 155hp at the wheels at 6100 rpm.

=20

The piston clearance was set to meet the requirements of the =
Nordschleife.

You go up hill at about max rev  for 40  seconds. Everything gets quite =
hot=E2=80=A6hotter than on normal tracks.

=20

And still I can drive the car on normal road traffic buying planks at =
the home depot

=20

=20

Cheers

Chris

=20

=20

Von: Philip Gott <[email-masked]>=20
Gesendet: Samstag, 4. Februar 2023 14:08
An: [email-masked]; Friends Of Triumph <[email-masked]>
Betreff: Re: [Fot] Pistons

=20

Everyone making good points, but just to throw this out there: =
we=E2=80=99ve built a couple of =E2=80=9Cbudget=E2=80=9D engines with =
cast flat top pistons to good effect.  We shift at 6000 and have good =
life and good power (over 140 Hp at the wheels). So you can run those =
with no fear if set up correctly.

With forged pistons set to proper clearance we would expect less sliding =
friction and hence more power ( the pistons are the single biggest area =
of friction-based parasitic loss in an engine) due to both slipper =
design and less distortion under load for forged pistons.  Have been =
building an engine with Arias pistons (yes, they are now owned by =
Carillo) - it=E2=80=99s been a work in progress for a while, and Dave =
now running Wiseco pistons.

You choose your path and make it work, just =E2=80=9Cdon=E2=80=99t be =
beaten by equipment!=E2=80=9D

Phil Gott

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 4, 2023, at 3:06 AM, Chris Marx via Fot <[email-masked] =

=EF=BB=BF

Hi Tony,

=20

regardless what the manufacturer says I set forged pistons on 0,13mm =
clearance.

Runs forever, never any issues, no piston slap. That=E2=80=99s my engine =
man recommended and so we did.

My TR4 runs on the same pistons now for 10 years with one change of =
rings inbetween.

=20

=20

Cheers

Chris

=20

> Im Auftrag von Tony Sheach via Fot
Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Februar 2023 17:44
Cc: Erik Jacobsen via Fot <[email-masked] =
Betreff: Re: [Fot] Pistons

=20

Hi folks=20

=20

I have a set of Wiseco 89mm pistons that i bought maybe 10 years ago I =
was going to use in a torquey rally engine with a set of Carillo rods - =
is there an issue with piston / liner clearances as some have said ? Or =
is it just a question of not letting the engine run over hot ?

=20

I have Venolia=E2=80=99s in my other bigger capacity engine and they =
have been great, but I=E2=80=99m not so sure about Uk supply any more. =
They also needed the longer Carillo rods, so if I go that route I end up =
with a set of pistons I don=E2=80=99t need.

=20

=20

Regards

=20

Tony=20

Sent from my iPad

On 3 Feb 2023, at 16:22, DAVE HOGYE via Fot <[email-masked] =

=EF=BB=BF=20

I believe that J&E owns Wiseco.  The Kipp family in Ohio started Wiseco =
and owned it until a few years ago.  I found this out when I called J&E =
about ordering pistons, or I called Wiseco.  Can't remember who I called =
first.  Tom Kipp was a top AMA Super Sports and Super Bike racer during =
the '90s.  Wiseco was a big sponsor of AMA and might still be.  I =
installed a Wiseco 1200cc piston kit in my '93 H-D Sportster way back in =
the '90s. =20

Dave H. =20

On 02/03/2023 4:41 AM Erik Jacobsen via Fot <[email-masked] =

=20

=20

=20

=20

Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]

Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US =
link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'word-wrap:break-word'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DDE>Good power =
Phil.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DDE><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Mine has =
about 155hp at the wheels at 6100 rpm.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>The piston =
clearance was set to meet the requirements of the =
Nordschleife.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>You go up hill at about =
max rev=C2=A0 for 40=C2=A0 seconds. Everything gets quite =
hot=E2=80=A6hotter than on normal tracks.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>And still I =
can drive the car on normal road traffic buying planks at the home =
depot<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><img width=3D512 height=3D379 =
style=3D'width:5.3333in;height:3.9479in' id=3D"Grafik_x0020_1" =
src=3D"cid:[email-masked]"><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Cheers<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Chris<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DDE>Von:</span></b><span =
lang=3DDE> Philip Gott &lt;[email-masked]&gt; <br><b>Gesendet:</b> =
Samstag, 4. Februar 2023 14:08<br><b>An:</b> [email-masked]; =
Friends Of Triumph &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Betreff:</b> Re: =
[Fot] Pistons<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Everyone =
making good points, but just to throw this out there: we=E2=80=99ve =
built a couple of =E2=80=9Cbudget=E2=80=9D engines with cast flat top =
pistons to good effect. &nbsp;We shift at 6000 and have good life and =
good power (over 140 Hp at the wheels). So you can run those with no =
fear if set up correctly.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>With =
forged pistons set to proper clearance we would expect less sliding =
friction and hence more power ( the pistons are the single biggest area =
of friction-based parasitic loss in an engine) due to both slipper =
design and less distortion under load for forged pistons. &nbsp;Have =
been building an engine with Arias pistons (yes, they are now owned by =
Carillo) - it=E2=80=99s been a work in progress for a while, and Dave =
now running Wiseco pistons.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>You choose your path and make it work, just =
=E2=80=9Cdon=E2=80=99t be beaten by =
equipment!=E2=80=9D<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Phil Gott<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>On Feb 4, 2023, at 3:06 AM, Chris Marx =
via Fot &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>=EF=BB=BF<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DDE>Hi Tony,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DDE>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>regardless =
what the manufacturer says I set forged pistons on 0,13mm =
clearance.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Runs forever, never any =
issues, no piston slap. That=E2=80=99s my engine man recommended and so =
we did.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>My TR4 runs on the same =
pistons now for 10 years with one change of rings =
inbetween.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>On aluminum engines =E2=80=93 different =
story.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Cheers<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Chris<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DDE>Von:</span></b><span =
lang=3DDE> Fot &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>=
&gt; <b>Im Auftrag von </b>Tony Sheach via Fot<br><b>Gesendet:</b> =
Freitag, 3. Februar 2023 17:44<br><b>An:</b> DAVE HOGYE &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:=
</b> Erik Jacobsen via Fot &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b>Betre=
ff:</b> Re: [Fot] Pistons</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Hi folks =
<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I =
have a set of Wiseco 89mm pistons that i bought maybe 10 years ago I was =
going to use in a torquey rally engine with a set of Carillo rods - is =
there an issue with piston / liner clearances as some have said ? Or is =
it just a question of not letting the engine run over hot =
?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I =
have Venolia=E2=80=99s in my other bigger capacity engine and they have =
been great, but I=E2=80=99m not so sure about Uk supply any more. They =
also needed the longer Carillo rods, so if I go that route I end up with =
a set of pistons I don=E2=80=99t need.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>What=E2=80=99s the advice from the wise =
?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Regards<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Tony&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Sent from my iPad<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>On 3 Feb 2023, at =
16:22, DAVE HOGYE via Fot &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>=EF=BB=BF =
<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'>I believe that J&amp;E owns Wiseco.&nbsp; The Kipp family in Ohio =
started Wiseco and owned it until a few years ago.&nbsp; I found this =
out when I called J&amp;E about ordering pistons, or I called =
Wiseco.&nbsp; Can't remember who I called first.&nbsp; Tom Kipp was a =
top AMA Super Sports and Super Bike racer during the '90s.&nbsp; Wiseco =
was a big sponsor of AMA and might still be.&nbsp; I installed a Wiseco =
1200cc piston kit in my '93 H-D Sportster way back in the '90s.&nbsp; =
</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'>Dave H.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>On 02/03/2023 4:41 AM Erik Jacobsen via Fot &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote: =
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>__________________________________________=
_____<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br><br><a =
href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br><br>D=
onate: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html<=
/a><br>Archive: <a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive">http://autox.team.net/archive</a> =
<a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot">http://www.team.net/pipermail/=
fot</a><br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]"=
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a><br>=
<br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>__________________________________________=
_____<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br><br><a =
href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br><br>D=
onate: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html<=
/a><br>Archive: <a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive">http://autox.team.net/archive</a> =
<a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot">http://www.team.net/pipermail/=
fot</a><br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]">http:=
//autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a><br><br><o:p></o=
:p></p></div></blockquote></div></div></body></html>
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From: David Gott via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2023 02:14:45 +0000 (UTC)

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Hi Chris,
I think someone must have spotted you after loading up; see below. =C2=A0 N=
ormally people advise against running a car with a cage on the street, but =
I think we can all see the wisdom of the full cage for a Home Depot trip! =
=C2=A0I would think the racing springs also increase your load capacity as =
well!
Take care!
Dave Gott

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Saturday, February 4, 2023, 1:03 PM, Chris Marx via Fot <[email-masked].=
net> wrote:

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Good power Phil.

 =C2=A0

 =C2=A0

The piston clearance was set to meet the requirements of the Nordschleife.

You go up hill at about max rev=C2=A0 for 40=C2=A0 seconds. Everything gets=
 quite hot=E2=80=A6hotter than on normal tracks.

 =C2=A0

And still I can drive the car on normal road traffic buying planks at the h=
ome depot

 =C2=A0

 =C2=A0

Cheers

Chris

 =C2=A0

 =C2=A0

 =C2=A0

Phil Gott

Sent from my iPhone

=EF=BB=BF

Hi Tony,

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Cheers

Chris

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Hi folks=20

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Regards

=C2=A0

Tony=C2=A0

Sent from my iPad

=EF=BB=BF=20

Dave H.=C2=A0=20

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

hoo.com

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<html xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microso=
ft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"><head><!--[=
if gte mso 9]><xml><o:OfficeDocumentSettings><o:AllowPNG/><o:PixelsPerInch>=
96</o:PixelsPerInch></o:OfficeDocumentSettings></xml><![endif]--></head><bo=
dy>
Hi Chris,<div><br></div><div>I think someone must have spotted you after lo=
ading up; see below. &nbsp; Normally people advise against running a car wi=
th a cage on the street, but I think we can all see the wisdom of the full =
cage for a Home Depot trip! &nbsp;I would think the racing springs also inc=
rease your load capacity as well!</div><div><br></div><div>Take care!</div>=
<div><br></div><div>Dave Gott</div><div><br></div><div><div><br></div><img =
src=3D"cid:CF9DD71E-0DE3-4AA6-8F63-0AF578A40A0A" class=3D"ymail-preserve-cl=
ass inline-image-guid-CF9DD71E-0DE3-4AA6-8F63-0AF578A40A0A rte-inline-saved=
-image" data-guid=3D"CF9DD71E-0DE3-4AA6-8F63-0AF578A40A0A" contenteditable=
=3D"false" alt=3D"Inline image" style=3D"width: 100%;"><div><br></div><span=
 id=3D"yahoo-rte-cursor-span"></span><br><br><br><a href=3D"https://overvie=
w.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=3DiOS">Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone</a><br><br><p=
 class=3D"yahoo-quoted-begin" style=3D"font-size: 15px; color: #715FFA; pad=
ding-top: 15px; margin-top: 0">On Saturday, February 4, 2023, 1:03 PM, Chri=
s Marx via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:</p><blockquote class=3D"io=
symail"><div id=3D"yiv7574752228"><style><!--

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--></style><div><div class=3D"yiv7574752228WordSection1"><p class=3D"yiv757=
4752228MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"DE">Good power Phil.</span></p><p class=3D"=
yiv7574752228MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"DE"> &nbsp;</span></p><p class=3D"yiv=
7574752228MsoNormal">Mine has about 155hp at the wheels at 6100 rpm.</p><p =
class=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</p><p class=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNor=
mal">The piston clearance was set to meet the requirements of the Nordschle=
ife.</p><p class=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNormal">You go up hill at about max rev=
&nbsp; for 40&nbsp; seconds. Everything gets quite hot=E2=80=A6hotter than =
on normal tracks.</p><p class=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</p><p clas=
s=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNormal">And still I can drive the car on normal road t=
raffic buying planks at the home depot</p><p class=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNorma=
l"><img id=3D"yiv7574752228Grafik_x0020_1" width=3D"512" height=3D"379" sty=
le=3D"width:5.3333in;min-height:3.9479in;" src=3D"cid:4W3LpYgJdUv5UxVeq83Y"=
 yahoo_partid=3D"1.2"></p><p class=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</p><p=
 class=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</p><p class=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNo=
rmal">Cheers</p><p class=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNormal">Chris</p><p class=3D"yi=
v7574752228MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</p><p class=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNormal"> &nbsp=
;</p><div id=3D"yiv7574752228yqt79197" class=3D"yiv7574752228yqt6421395309"=
><div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0p=
t 0cm 0cm 0cm;"><p class=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"DE">Vo=
n:</span></b><span lang=3D"DE"> Philip Gott &lt;[email-masked]&gt; <br cl=
ear=3D"none"><b>Gesendet:</b> Samstag, 4. Februar 2023 14:08<br clear=3D"no=
ne"><b>An:</b> [email-masked]; Friends Of Triumph &lt;[email-masked]=
eam.net&gt;<br clear=3D"none"><b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Fot] Pistons</span></p><=
/div></div><p class=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</p><p class=3D"yiv75=
74752228MsoNormal">Everyone making good points, but just to throw this out =
there: we=E2=80=99ve built a couple of =E2=80=9Cbudget=E2=80=9D engines wit=
h cast flat top pistons to good effect. &nbsp;We shift at 6000 and have goo=
d life and good power (over 140 Hp at the wheels). So you can run those wit=
h no fear if set up correctly.</p><div><p class=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNormal">=
With forged pistons set to proper clearance we would expect less sliding fr=
iction and hence more power ( the pistons are the single biggest area of fr=
iction-based parasitic loss in an engine) due to both slipper design and le=
ss distortion under load for forged pistons. &nbsp;Have been building an en=
gine with Arias pistons (yes, they are now owned by Carillo) - it=E2=80=99s=
 been a work in progress for a while, and Dave now running Wiseco pistons.<=
/p></div><div><p class=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNormal">You choose your path and =
make it work, just =E2=80=9Cdon=E2=80=99t be beaten by equipment!=E2=80=9D<=
/p></div><div><p style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;" class=3D"yiv7574752228MsoN=
ormal">Phil Gott</p><div><p class=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNormal">Sent from my i=
Phone</p></div><div><p class=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNormal"><br clear=3D"none">=
<br clear=3D"none"></p><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:=
5.0pt;"><p style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;" class=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNormal"=
>On Feb 4, 2023, at 3:06 AM, Chris Marx via Fot &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow noop=
ener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" targe=
t=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:</p></blockquote></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-b=
ottom:5.0pt;"><div><p class=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNormal">=EF=BB=BF</p><p clas=
s=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"DE">Hi Tony,</span></p><p class=
=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"DE">&nbsp;</span></p><p class=3D"=
yiv7574752228MsoNormal">regardless what the manufacturer says I set forged =
pistons on 0,13mm clearance.</p><p class=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNormal">Runs fo=
rever, never any issues, no piston slap. That=E2=80=99s my engine man recom=
mended and so we did.</p><p class=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNormal">My TR4 runs on=
 the same pistons now for 10 years with one change of rings inbetween.</p><=
p class=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p><p class=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNo=
rmal">On aluminum engines =E2=80=93 different story.</p><p class=3D"yiv7574=
752228MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p><p class=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNormal">Cheers</p><p=
 class=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNormal">Chris</p><p class=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNorm=
al">&nbsp;</p><div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt=
;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;"><p class=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNormal"><b><span l=
ang=3D"DE">Von:</span></b><span lang=3D"DE"> Fot &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow noo=
pener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
et" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">fot-bounce=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; <b>Im Auftrag von </b>Tony Sheach via Fot<br clear=
=3D"none"><b>Gesendet:</b> Freitag, 3. Februar 2023 17:44<br clear=3D"none"=
><b>An:</b> DAVE HOGYE &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape=3D=
"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mai=
lto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none"><b>C=
c:</b> Erik Jacobsen via Fot &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" sh=
ape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none"=
><b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Fot] Pistons</span></p></div></div><p class=3D"yiv757=
4752228MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p><p class=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNormal">Hi folks </=
p><div><p class=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p></div><div><p class=3D=
"yiv7574752228MsoNormal">I have a set of Wiseco 89mm pistons that i bought =
maybe 10 years ago I was going to use in a torquey rally engine with a set =
of Carillo rods - is there an issue with piston / liner clearances as some =
have said ? Or is it just a question of not letting the engine run over hot=
 ?</p></div><div><p class=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p></div><div><=
p class=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNormal">I have Venolia=E2=80=99s in my other big=
ger capacity engine and they have been great, but I=E2=80=99m not so sure a=
bout Uk supply any more. They also needed the longer Carillo rods, so if I =
go that route I end up with a set of pistons I don=E2=80=99t need.</p></div=
><div><p class=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p></div><div><p class=3D"=
yiv7574752228MsoNormal">What=E2=80=99s the advice from the wise ?</p></div>=
<div><p class=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p></div><div><p class=3D"y=
iv7574752228MsoNormal">Regards</p></div><div><p class=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNo=
rmal">&nbsp;</p></div><div><p style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;" class=3D"yiv7=
574752228MsoNormal">Tony&nbsp;</p><div><p class=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNormal">=
Sent from my iPad</p></div><div><p style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;" class=3D=
"yiv7574752228MsoNormal"><br clear=3D"none">On 3 Feb 2023, at 16:22, DAVE H=
OGYE via Fot &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" yma=
ilto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:fot@aut=
ox.team.net">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</p></div><div><p class=3D"yi=
v7574752228MsoNormal">=EF=BB=BF </p><div><p class=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNormal=
"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#333333;">I =
believe that J&amp;E owns Wiseco.&nbsp; The Kipp family in Ohio started Wis=
eco and owned it until a few years ago.&nbsp; I found this out when I calle=
d J&amp;E about ordering pistons, or I called Wiseco.&nbsp; Can't remember =
who I called first.&nbsp; Tom Kipp was a top AMA Super Sports and Super Bik=
e racer during the '90s.&nbsp; Wiseco was a big sponsor of AMA and might st=
ill be.&nbsp; I installed a Wiseco 1200cc piston kit in my '93 H-D Sportste=
r way back in the '90s.&nbsp; </span></p></div><div><p class=3D"yiv75747522=
28MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#=
333333;">Dave H.&nbsp; </span></p></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0=
pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;"><div><p class=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNormal">On 02/03/=
2023 4:41 AM Erik Jacobsen via Fot &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferr=
er" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote: </p></=
div><div><p class=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p></div><div><p class=
=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p></div><div><div><p class=3D"yiv757475=
2228MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;">&nb=
sp;</span></p></div></div><p style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;" class=3D"yiv75=
74752228MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p></blockquote><p style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;=
" class=3D"yiv7574752228MsoNormal">________________________________________=
_______<br clear=3D"none"><a rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"=
rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailt=
o:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D=
"none"><a rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_bl=
ank" href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br cl=
ear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Donate: <a rel=3D"nofollow noopener norefer=
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v><div class=3D"yqt6421395309" id=3D"yqt67011">____________________________=
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---

From: Chris Marx via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2023 16:33:13 +0100

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Hi Dave,

=20

people here are normally easy with race cars in traffic if the driving =
is not too offensive.

Occasionally the police have a look but they=E2=80=99re more interested =
to see the engine.

The female police officers look a bit bored meanwhile.

=20

Cheers

Chris

=20

=20

Von: David Gott <[email-masked]>=20
Gesendet: Montag, 6. Februar 2023 03:15
An: [email-masked]; 'Philip Gott' <[email-masked]>; 'Friends =
Of Triumph' <[email-masked]>
Betreff: Re: [Fot] Pistons

=20

Hi Chris,

=20

I think someone must have spotted you after loading up; see below.   =
Normally people advise against running a car with a cage on the street, =
but I think we can all see the wisdom of the full cage for a Home Depot =
trip!  I would think the racing springs also increase your load capacity =
as well!

=20

Take care!

=20

Dave Gott

=20

=20

=20

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone =
<https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=3DiOS>=20

On Saturday, February 4, 2023, 1:03 PM, Chris Marx via Fot =

Good power Phil.

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

Cheers

Chris

=20

=20

=20

Phil Gott

Sent from my iPhone

=20

=EF=BB=BF

Hi Tony,

=20

=20

=20

Cheers

Chris

=20

=20

Hi folks=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

Regards

=20

Tony=20

Sent from my iPad

=EF=BB=BF=20

Dave H. =20

=20

=20

=20

=20

Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive  =
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vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'word-wrap:break-word'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DDE>Hi =
Dave,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DDE><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>people here =
are normally easy with race cars in traffic if the driving is not too =
offensive.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Occasionally the police =
have a look but they=E2=80=99re more interested to see the =
engine.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>The female police officers =
look a bit bored meanwhile.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Cheers<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Chris<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DDE>Von:</span></b><span =
lang=3DDE> David Gott &lt;[email-masked]&gt; <br><b>Gesendet:</b> =
Montag, 6. Februar 2023 03:15<br><b>An:</b> [email-masked]; =
'Philip Gott' &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; 'Friends Of Triumph' =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Fot] =
Pistons<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Hi =
Chris,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I =
think someone must have spotted you after loading up; see below. &nbsp; =
Normally people advise against running a car with a cage on the street, =
but I think we can all see the wisdom of the full cage for a Home Depot =
trip! &nbsp;I would think the racing springs also increase your load =
capacity as well!<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Take care!<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Dave Gott<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><img =
width=3D1865 height=3D1380 style=3D'width:19.427in;height:14.375in' =
id=3D"Bild_x0020_1" src=3D"cid:[email-masked]" =
alt=3D"Inline image"><o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br><br><a =
href=3D"https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=3DiOS">Sent from Yahoo =
Mail for iPhone</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3Dyahoo-quoted-begin =
style=3D'margin-top:0cm'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.5pt;color:#715FFA'>On Saturday, February 4, 2023, =
1:03 PM, Chris Marx via Fot &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div =
id=3Dyiv7574752228><div><div><p class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal><span =
lang=3DDE>Good power Phil.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal><span =
lang=3DDE>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>Mine has about 155hp at the wheels at =
6100 rpm.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>The piston clearance was set to meet the =
requirements of the Nordschleife.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>You go up hill at about max rev&nbsp; for =
40&nbsp; seconds. Everything gets quite hot=E2=80=A6hotter than on =
normal tracks.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>And still I can drive the car on normal =
road traffic buying planks at the home depot<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal><img border=3D0 width=3D512 height=3D379 =
style=3D'width:5.3333in;height:3.9479in' =
id=3D"yiv7574752228Grafik_x0020_1" =
src=3D"cid:[email-masked]"><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>Cheers<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>Chris<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div =
id=3Dyiv7574752228yqt79197><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal><b><span =
lang=3DDE>Von:</span></b><span lang=3DDE> Philip Gott &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
<br><b>Gesendet:</b> Samstag, 4. Februar 2023 14:08<br><b>An:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>; =
Friends Of Triumph &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b>Betre=
ff:</b> Re: [Fot] Pistons</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>Everyone making good points, but just to =
throw this out there: we=E2=80=99ve built a couple of =
=E2=80=9Cbudget=E2=80=9D engines with cast flat top pistons to good =
effect. &nbsp;We shift at 6000 and have good life and good power (over =
140 Hp at the wheels). So you can run those with no fear if set up =
correctly.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>With =
forged pistons set to proper clearance we would expect less sliding =
friction and hence more power ( the pistons are the single biggest area =
of friction-based parasitic loss in an engine) due to both slipper =
design and less distortion under load for forged pistons. &nbsp;Have =
been building an engine with Arias pistons (yes, they are now owned by =
Carillo) - it=E2=80=99s been a work in progress for a while, and Dave =
now running Wiseco pistons.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>You choose your path and make it work, =
just =E2=80=9Cdon=E2=80=99t be beaten by =
equipment!=E2=80=9D<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Phil =
Gott<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>Sent from my =
iPhone<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>On Feb 4, =
2023, at 3:06 AM, Chris Marx via Fot &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>=EF=BB=BF<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal><span lang=3DDE>Hi =
Tony,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal><span =
lang=3DDE>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>regardless what the manufacturer says I =
set forged pistons on 0,13mm clearance.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>Runs forever, never any issues, no piston =
slap. That=E2=80=99s my engine man recommended and so we =
did.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>My TR4 runs on the =
same pistons now for 10 years with one change of rings =
inbetween.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>On aluminum engines =E2=80=93 different =
story.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>Cheers<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>Chris<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal><b><span =
lang=3DDE>Von:</span></b><span lang=3DDE> Fot &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; <b>Im Auftrag von =
</b>Tony Sheach via Fot<br><b>Gesendet:</b> Freitag, 3. Februar 2023 =
17:44<br><b>An:</b> DAVE HOGYE &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> Erik =
Jacobsen via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b>Betreff:</b> Re: =
[Fot] Pistons</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>Hi folks <o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>I have a set of Wiseco 89mm pistons that =
i bought maybe 10 years ago I was going to use in a torquey rally engine =
with a set of Carillo rods - is there an issue with piston / liner =
clearances as some have said ? Or is it just a question of not letting =
the engine run over hot ?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>I have Venolia=E2=80=99s in my other =
bigger capacity engine and they have been great, but I=E2=80=99m not so =
sure about Uk supply any more. They also needed the longer Carillo rods, =
so if I go that route I end up with a set of pistons I don=E2=80=99t =
need.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>What=E2=80=99s the advice from the wise =
?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>Regards<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Tony&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>Sent from my =
iPad<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>On 3 Feb 2023, at 16:22, DAVE HOGYE =
via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>=EF=BB=BF <o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333'>I=
 believe that J&amp;E owns Wiseco.&nbsp; The Kipp family in Ohio started =
Wiseco and owned it until a few years ago.&nbsp; I found this out when I =
called J&amp;E about ordering pistons, or I called Wiseco.&nbsp; Can't =
remember who I called first.&nbsp; Tom Kipp was a top AMA Super Sports =
and Super Bike racer during the '90s.&nbsp; Wiseco was a big sponsor of =
AMA and might still be.&nbsp; I installed a Wiseco 1200cc piston kit in =
my '93 H-D Sportster way back in the '90s.&nbsp; =
</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333'>D=
ave H.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>On 02/03/2023 4:41 AM Erik Jacobsen via =
Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote: =
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>&nbsp;</span><o=
:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p =
class=3Dyiv7574752228msonormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>__________________________________________=
_____<br><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br><br><a =
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style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>__________________________________________=
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