Subject: Re: [Fot] Compression

From: Philip Gott via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 12:15:50 -0500

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Glad to hear it!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 7, 2021, at 11:45 AM, DAVE HOGYE <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> Phil,=20
> Greg Solow provided me with TR3-4 chamber volume numbers and their related=
 compression ratios while I was building my TR3 engine.  49.6cc is what I en=
ded up with, an approximate ratio of 10.8:1.  Your numbers coincide.  I had .=
125" milled off before shaping and opening the chamber to 49.6. =20
> Good stuff.
> Dave H.=20
>>> On 12/07/2021 5:31 AM Phil Gott via Fot <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> If it helps, please find attached an Excel spreadsheet that calculates b=
oth the current compression ratio as well as the head volume needed to get t=
he compression ratio you want.  Just put the dimensions in the yellow highli=
ghted cells.  If running a pop up piston, you will need to determine the vol=
ume of the pup up above the normal piston crown surface.  The spreadsheet as=
 attached has dimensions for a slightly modified TR4 with flat top pistons. =
 I hope this is self explanatory.
>>>=20
>>> Regards,
>>>=20
>>> Phil Gott=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> -----Original Message-----=20
>>> From: Chuck Gee via Fot <[email-masked]>=20
>>> To: Bob Bownes -Seiri <[email-masked]>=20
>>> Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' Triumph <[email-masked]>=20
>>> Sent: Mon, Dec 6, 2021 10:51 pm=20
>>> Subject: Re: [Fot] Compression=20
>>>=20
>>> Yes they will, but that isn=E2=80=99t really the problem.  The extra str=
oke of the TR6 motor makes building compression easy.  The 2L motor is a lit=
tle more challenging because of the shorter stroke.  You just can=E2=80=99t s=
have enough off the head to get really high compression without getting into=
 the water passages.  Pop ups are necessary to maximize compression.=20
>>>=20
>>> Chuck
>>>=20
>>> On Dec 6, 2021, at 6:40 PM, Bob Bownes -Seiri via Fot <[email-masked]=
t> wrote:=20
>>>=20
>>=20
>>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Hmm,
>>=20
>> Will a TR6 head fit? There is plenty of meat on those to get Ludicrous Co=
mpression.=20
>>=20
>> Bob
>>=20
>>> On Dec 6, 2021, at 20:58, Scott Janzen via Fot <[email-masked]> wrot=
e:=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>=20
>> I=E2=80=99ve found the GT6 head has some thin spots and depending on the c=
asting can=E2=80=99t take milling too much more than 11.5 to 1, maybe 12 if y=
ou get lucky with the right casting.  As to the lore that circle B heads are=
 the best, I have not found that to be correct in this respect.  Seems like t=
hey are all over the map.
>> The rest has to come from domed pistons, which I have not yet tried, so t=
here=E2=80=99s probably some more HP to be found. =20
>> Before you mill a head, find a shop that can =E2=80=9Cxray=E2=80=9D it fo=
r you to tell you how thick the metal is above the cooling passages.  When I=
 had this done, they just marked the thickness directly on the head with a m=
arket.  If memory serves, one of the thinnest spots is not quite outside the=
 fire ring on the head gasket near #1.  I had one fail there that got milled=
 50/thousandths too much.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> On Dec 6, 2021, at 1:36 PM, McKearn McKearn via Fot <[email-masked]> w=
rote:
>>=20
>> Now that we have the crank and rods figured out, how about we discuss mak=
ing compression?
>>  I know this can be a sore subject and everyone has an opinion as to how m=
uch is enough or too much so where do we start?
>>  I have built a couple TR6 engines that were in the 13:1 range thanks to m=
uch head milling and pop up pistons. Will the 2.0 litre engine be the same ?=

>>                                       Thanks.  P.J.
>> _______________________________________________=20
>> [email-masked]=20
>>=20
>> http://www.fot-racing.com=20
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com=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
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>>=20
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>>=20
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Glad to hear it!<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Se=
nt from my iPhone</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Dec=
 7, 2021, at 11:45 AM, DAVE HOGYE &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><br>=
</blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF

 =20
  <meta charset=3D"UTF-8">=20
=20
=20
  <div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; c=
olor: #333333;">
   <span style=3D"font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;">Phil, </span>
   <br>
  </div>
  <div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; c=
olor: #333333;" class=3D"default-style">
   <span style=3D"font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;">Greg Solow provi=
ded me with TR3-4 chamber volume numbers and their related compression ratio=
s while I was building my TR3 engine.&nbsp; 49.6cc is what I ended up with, a=
n approximate ratio of 10.8:1.&nbsp; Your numbers coincide.&nbsp; I had .125=
" milled off before shaping and opening the chamber to 49.6.&nbsp;&nbsp;</sp=
an>
  </div>
  <div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; c=
olor: #333333;" class=3D"default-style">
   <span style=3D"font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;">Good stuff.</spa=
n>
  </div>
  <div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; c=
olor: #333333;" class=3D"default-style">
   <span style=3D"font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;">Dave H.&nbsp;</s=
pan>
  </div>
  <blockquote type=3D"cite">
   <div>
    On 12/07/2021 5:31 AM Phil Gott via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote=
:
   </div>
   <div>
    <br>
   </div>
   <div>
    <br>
   </div>
   <div style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; c=
olor: black;">
    <div style=3D"font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; c=
olor: black;">
     If it helps, please find attached an Excel spreadsheet that calculates b=
oth the current compression ratio as well as the head volume needed to get t=
he compression ratio you want. &nbsp;Just put the dimensions in the yellow h=
ighlighted cells. &nbsp;If running a pop up piston, you will need to determi=
ne the volume of the pup up above the normal piston crown surface. &nbsp;The=
 spreadsheet as attached has dimensions for a slightly modified TR4 with fla=
t top pistons. &nbsp;I hope this is self explanatory.
    </div>
    <div style=3D"font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; c=
olor: black;">
     <br>
    </div>
    <div style=3D"font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; c=
olor: black;">
     Regards,
    </div>
    <div style=3D"font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; c=
olor: black;">
     <br>
    </div>
    <div style=3D"font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; c=
olor: black;">
     Phil Gott
     <br>
     <br>
     <br>-----Original Message-----
     <br>From: Chuck Gee via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt;
     <br>To: Bob Bownes -Seiri &lt;[email-masked]&gt;
     <br>Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' Triumph &lt;[email-masked]&gt;
     <br>Sent: Mon, Dec 6, 2021 10:51 pm
     <br>Subject: Re: [Fot] Compression
     <br>
     <br>
    </div>
    <div id=3D"yiv0152095042">
     <div>
      Yes they will, but that isn=E2=80=99t really the problem. &nbsp;The ex=
tra stroke of the TR6 motor makes building compression easy. &nbsp;The 2L mo=
tor is a little more challenging because of the shorter stroke. &nbsp;You ju=
st can=E2=80=99t shave enough off the head to get really high compression wi=
thout getting into the water passages. &nbsp;Pop ups are necessary to maximi=
ze compression.
      <br clear=3D"none">
      <br clear=3D"none">
      <div dir=3D"ltr">
       Chuck
      </div>
      <div dir=3D"ltr">
       <div class=3D"yiv0152095042yqt5940126276" id=3D"yiv0152095042yqtfd410=
27">
        <br clear=3D"none">
        <blockquote type=3D"cite">
         On Dec 6, 2021, at 6:40 PM, Bob Bownes -Seiri via Fot &lt;fot@autox=
.team.net&gt; wrote:
         <br clear=3D"none">
         <br clear=3D"none">
        </blockquote>
       </div>
      </div>
      <div class=3D"yiv0152095042yqt5940126276" id=3D"yiv0152095042yqtfd1333=
0">
       <blockquote type=3D"cite">
        <div dir=3D"ltr">
         <br>
        </div>
       </blockquote>
      </div>
     </div>
     <div class=3D"yiv0152095042yqt5940126276" id=3D"yiv0152095042yqtfd97107=
">
      <div>
       <div dir=3D"ltr">
        <br>
       </div>
       <div dir=3D"ltr">
        Hmm,
       </div>
       <div dir=3D"ltr">
        <br clear=3D"none">
       </div>
       <div dir=3D"ltr">
        Will a TR6 head fit? There is plenty of meat on those to get Ludicro=
us Compression.&nbsp;
       </div>
       <div dir=3D"ltr">
        <br clear=3D"none">
       </div>
       <div dir=3D"ltr">
        Bob
       </div>
       <div dir=3D"ltr">
        <br clear=3D"none">
        <blockquote type=3D"cite">
         On Dec 6, 2021, at 20:58, Scott Janzen via Fot &lt;[email-masked]=
et&gt; wrote:
         <br clear=3D"none">
         <br clear=3D"none">
        </blockquote>
       </div>
       <blockquote type=3D"cite">
        <div dir=3D"ltr">
         <br>
        </div>
       </blockquote>
      </div>
     </div>
     <div>
      <div class=3D"yiv0152095042yqt5940126276" id=3D"yiv0152095042yqtfd3826=
4">
       I=E2=80=99ve found the GT6 head has some thin spots and depending on t=
he casting can=E2=80=99t take milling too much more than 11.5 to 1, maybe 12=
 if you get lucky with the right casting. &nbsp;As to the lore that circle B=
 heads are the best, I have not found that to be correct in this respect. &n=
bsp;Seems like they are all over the map.
       <div class=3D"yiv0152095042">
        The rest has to come from domed pistons, which I have not yet tried,=
 so there=E2=80=99s probably some more HP to be found. &nbsp;
       </div>
       <div class=3D"yiv0152095042">
        Before you mill a head, find a shop that can =E2=80=9Cxray=E2=80=9D i=
t for you to tell you how thick the metal is above the cooling passages. &nb=
sp;When I had this done, they just marked the thickness directly on the head=
 with a market. &nbsp;If memory serves, one of the thinnest spots is not qui=
te outside the fire ring on the head gasket near #1. &nbsp;I had one fail th=
ere that got milled 50/thousandths too much.
       </div>
       <div class=3D"yiv0152095042">
        <br class=3D"yiv0152095042" clear=3D"none">
       </div>
       <div class=3D"yiv0152095042">
        <br class=3D"yiv0152095042" clear=3D"none">
        <div>
         <br class=3D"yiv0152095042" clear=3D"none">
         <div class=3D"yiv0152095042">
          On Dec 6, 2021, at 1:36 PM, McKearn McKearn via Fot &lt;<a class=3D=
"yiv0152095042" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" shape=3D=
"rect" rel=3D"noopener">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:
         </div>
         <br class=3D"yiv0152095042Apple-interchange-newline" clear=3D"none"=
         <div class=3D"yiv0152095042">
          <div class=3D"yiv0152095042" dir=3D"ltr">
           Now that we have the crank and rods figured out, how about we dis=
cuss making compression?
           <div class=3D"yiv0152095042">
            &nbsp;I know this can be a sore subject and everyone has an opin=
ion as to how much is enough or too much so where do we start?
           </div>
           <div class=3D"yiv0152095042">
            &nbsp;I have built a couple TR6 engines that were in the 13:1 ra=
nge thanks to much head milling and pop up pistons. Will the 2.0 litre engin=
e be the same ?
           </div>
           <div class=3D"yiv0152095042">
            &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Thanks.=
&nbsp; P.J.
           </div>
          </div>_______________________________________________
          <br class=3D"yiv0152095042" clear=3D"none"><a class=3D"yiv01520950=
42" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" shape=3D"rect" rel=3D=
"noopener">[email-masked]</a>
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          <br class=3D"yiv0152095042" clear=3D"none">http://www.fot-racing.c=
om
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