Subject: Re: [Fot] Compression

From: Chuck Gee via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 19:51:22 -0800

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Yes they will, but that isn=E2=80=99t really the problem.  The extra stroke o=
f the TR6 motor makes building compression easy.  The 2L motor is a little m=
ore challenging because of the shorter stroke.  You just can=E2=80=99t shave=
 enough off the head to get really high compression without getting into the=
 water passages.  Pop ups are necessary to maximize compression.

Chuck

> On Dec 6, 2021, at 6:40 PM, Bob Bownes -Seiri via Fot <[email-masked]>=
 wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> Hmm,
>=20
> Will a TR6 head fit? There is plenty of meat on those to get Ludicrous Com=
pression.=20
>=20
> Bob
>=20
>>> On Dec 6, 2021, at 20:58, Scott Janzen via Fot <[email-masked]> wrot=
e:
>>>=20
>> =EF=BB=BFI=E2=80=99ve found the GT6 head has some thin spots and dependin=
g on the casting can=E2=80=99t take milling too much more than 11.5 to 1, ma=
ybe 12 if you get lucky with the right casting.  As to the lore that circle B=
 heads are the best, I have not found that to be correct in this respect.  S=
eems like they are all over the map.
>> The rest has to come from domed pistons, which I have not yet tried, so t=
here=E2=80=99s probably some more HP to be found. =20
>> Before you mill a head, find a shop that can =E2=80=9Cxray=E2=80=9D it fo=
r you to tell you how thick the metal is above the cooling passages.  When I=
 had this done, they just marked the thickness directly on the head with a m=
arket.  If memory serves, one of the thinnest spots is not quite outside the=
 fire ring on the head gasket near #1.  I had one fail there that got milled=
 50/thousandths too much.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> On Dec 6, 2021, at 1:36 PM, McKearn McKearn via Fot <[email-masked]> w=
rote:
>>=20
>> Now that we have the crank and rods figured out, how about we discuss mak=
ing compression?
>>  I know this can be a sore subject and everyone has an opinion as to how m=
uch is enough or too much so where do we start?
>>  I have built a couple TR6 engines that were in the 13:1 range thanks to m=
uch head milling and pop up pistons. Will the 2.0 litre engine be the same ?=

>>                                       Thanks.  P.J.
>> _______________________________________________
>> [email-masked]
>>=20
>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>>=20
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/sjanzen@me.=
com
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> [email-masked]
>>=20
>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>>=20
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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>>=20
>>=20
> _______________________________________________
> [email-masked]
>=20
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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ail.com
>=20
>=20

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Yes they will, but that isn=E2=80=99t reall=
y the problem. &nbsp;The extra stroke of the TR6 motor makes building compre=
ssion easy. &nbsp;The 2L motor is a little more challenging because of the s=
horter stroke. &nbsp;You just can=E2=80=99t shave enough off the head to get=
 really high compression without getting into the water passages. &nbsp;Pop u=
ps are necessary to maximize compression.<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Chuck</div=
><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Dec 6, 2021, at 6:40 PM, B=
ob Bownes -Seiri via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquo=
te></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<meta http-equi=
v=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"><div dir=3D"ltr"><=
/div><div dir=3D"ltr">Hmm,</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">=
Will a TR6 head fit? There is plenty of meat on those to get Ludicrous Compr=
ession.&nbsp;</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Bob</div><div=
 dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Dec 6, 2021, at 20:58, Scott J=
anzen via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><b=
lockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<meta http-equiv=3D"Conten=
t-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8">I=E2=80=99ve found the GT6 he=
ad has some thin spots and depending on the casting can=E2=80=99t take milli=
ng too much more than 11.5 to 1, maybe 12 if you get lucky with the right ca=
sting. &nbsp;As to the lore that circle B heads are the best, I have not fou=
nd that to be correct in this respect. &nbsp;Seems like they are all over th=
e map.<div class=3D"">The rest has to come from domed pistons, which I have n=
ot yet tried, so there=E2=80=99s probably some more HP to be found. &nbsp;</=
div><div class=3D"">Before you mill a head, find a shop that can =E2=80=9Cxr=
ay=E2=80=9D it for you to tell you how thick the metal is above the cooling p=
assages. &nbsp;When I had this done, they just marked the thickness directly=
 on the head with a market. &nbsp;If memory serves, one of the thinnest spot=
s is not quite outside the fire ring on the head gasket near #1. &nbsp;I had=
 one fail there that got milled 50/thousandths too much.</div><div class=3D"=
"><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><d=
iv class=3D"">On Dec 6, 2021, at 1:36 PM, McKearn McKearn via Fot &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:=
</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"lt=
r" class=3D"">Now that we have the crank and rods figured out, how about we d=
iscuss making compression?<div class=3D"">&nbsp;I know this can be a sore su=
bject and everyone has an opinion as to how much is enough or too much so wh=
ere do we start?</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp;I have built a couple TR6 engine=
s that were in the 13:1 range thanks to much head milling and pop up pistons=
. Will the 2.0 litre engine be the same ?</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Thanks.&nbsp; P.J.</div></div>
_______________________________________________<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mai=
lto:[email-masked]" class=3D"">[email-masked]</a><br class=3D""><br c=
lass=3D"">http://www.fot-racing.com<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Donate: htt=
p://www.team.net/donate.html<br class=3D"">Archive: http://autox.team.net/ar=
chive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot<br class=3D"">Unsubscribe/Manage: ht=
tp://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]<br class=3D""><br cla=
ss=3D""><br class=3D""></div></div><br class=3D""></div><span>______________=
_________________________________</span><br><span>[email-masked]</span><=
br><span></span><br><span>http://www.fot-racing.com</span><br><span></span><=
br><span>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html</span><br><span>Archive: ht=
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com</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br></div></blockquote><span>___=
____________________________________________</span><br><span>[email-masked].=
net</span><br><span></span><br><span>http://www.fot-racing.com</span><br><sp=
an></span><br><span>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html</span><br><span>=
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quote></body></html>=

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_______________________________________________
[email-masked]

http://www.fot-racing.com

Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot

--===============6807595422021945376==--

---

From: Phil Gott via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 13:31:11 +0000 (UTC)

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If it helps, please find attached an Excel spreadsheet that calculates both=
 the current compression ratio as well as the head volume needed to get the=
 compression ratio you want. =C2=A0Just put the dimensions in the yellow hi=
ghlighted cells. =C2=A0If running a pop up piston, you will need to determi=
ne the volume of the pup up above the normal piston crown surface. =C2=A0Th=
e spreadsheet as attached has dimensions for a slightly modified TR4 with f=
lat top pistons. =C2=A0I hope this is self explanatory.
Regards,
Phil Gott

-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Gee via Fot <[email-masked]>
To: Bob Bownes -Seiri <[email-masked]>
Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' Triumph <[email-masked]>
Sent: Mon, Dec 6, 2021 10:51 pm
Subject: Re: [Fot] Compression

Yes they will, but that isn=E2=80=99t really the problem. =C2=A0The extra s=
troke of the TR6 motor makes building compression easy. =C2=A0The 2L motor =
is a little more challenging because of the shorter stroke. =C2=A0You just =
can=E2=80=99t shave enough off the head to get really high compression with=
out getting into the water passages. =C2=A0Pop ups are necessary to maximiz=
e compression.

Chuck

On Dec 6, 2021, at 6:40 PM, Bob Bownes -Seiri via Fot <[email-masked]> =
wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
Hmm,
Will a TR6 head fit? There is plenty of meat on those to get Ludicrous Comp=
ression.=C2=A0
Bob

On Dec 6, 2021, at 20:58, Scott Janzen via Fot <[email-masked]> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
I=E2=80=99ve found the GT6 head has some thin spots and depending on the ca=
sting can=E2=80=99t take milling too much more than 11.5 to 1, maybe 12 if =
you get lucky with the right casting. =C2=A0As to the lore that circle B he=
ads are the best, I have not found that to be correct in this respect. =C2=
=A0Seems like they are all over the map.The rest has to come from domed pis=
tons, which I have not yet tried, so there=E2=80=99s probably some more HP =
to be found. =C2=A0Before you mill a head, find a shop that can =E2=80=9Cxr=
ay=E2=80=9D it for you to tell you how thick the metal is above the cooling=
 passages. =C2=A0When I had this done, they just marked the thickness direc=
tly on the head with a market. =C2=A0If memory serves, one of the thinnest =
spots is not quite outside the fire ring on the head gasket near #1. =C2=A0=
I had one fail there that got milled 50/thousandths too much.

On Dec 6, 2021, at 1:36 PM, McKearn McKearn via Fot <[email-masked]> wr=
ote:
Now that we have the crank and rods figured out, how about we discuss makin=
g compression?=C2=A0I know this can be a sore subject and everyone has an o=
pinion as to how much is enough or too much so where do we start?=C2=A0I ha=
ve built a couple TR6 engines that were in the 13:1 range thanks to much he=
ad milling and pop up pistons. Will the 2.0 litre engine be the same ?=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks.=C2=A0 P.J._=
______________________________________________
[email-masked]

m

om

il.com

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<div style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:b=
lack;"><div style=3D"font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10=
pt; color: black;" data-mce-style=3D"font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f; font-size: 10pt; color: black;">If it helps, please find attached an Exc=
el spreadsheet that calculates both the current compression ratio as well a=
s the head volume needed to get the compression ratio you want. &nbsp;Just =
put the dimensions in the yellow highlighted cells. &nbsp;If running a pop =
up piston, you will need to determine the volume of the pup up above the no=
rmal piston crown surface. &nbsp;The spreadsheet as attached has dimensions=
 for a slightly modified TR4 with flat top pistons. &nbsp;I hope this is se=
lf explanatory.</div><div style=3D"font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;=
 font-size: 10pt; color: black;" data-mce-style=3D"font-family: arial,helve=
tica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: black;"><br></div><div style=3D"fo=
nt-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: black;" data=
-mce-style=3D"font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; col=
or: black;">Regards,</div><div style=3D"font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-s=
erif; font-size: 10pt; color: black;" data-mce-style=3D"font-family: arial,=
helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: black;"><br></div><div style=
=3D"font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: black;=
" data-mce-style=3D"font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10p=
t; color: black;">Phil Gott<br><br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: =
Chuck Gee via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>To: Bob Bownes -Seiri &lt;b=
[email-masked]&gt;<br>Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' Triumph &lt;[email-masked].=
net&gt;<br>Sent: Mon, Dec 6, 2021 10:51 pm<br>Subject: Re: [Fot] Compressio=
n<br><br></div><div id=3D"yiv0152095042"><div>Yes they will, but that isn=
=E2=80=99t really the problem. &nbsp;The extra stroke of the TR6 motor make=
s building compression easy. &nbsp;The 2L motor is a little more challengin=
g because of the shorter stroke. &nbsp;You just can=E2=80=99t shave enough =
off the head to get really high compression without getting into the water =
passages. &nbsp;Pop ups are necessary to maximize compression.<br clear=3D"=
none"><br clear=3D"none"><div dir=3D"ltr">Chuck</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div =
id=3D"yiv0152095042yqtfd41027" class=3D"yiv0152095042yqt5940126276"><br cle=
ar=3D"none"><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Dec 6, 2021, at 6:40 PM, Bob Bowne=
s -Seiri via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none"><br cl=
ear=3D"none"></blockquote></div></div><div id=3D"yiv0152095042yqtfd13330" c=
lass=3D"yiv0152095042yqt5940126276"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"l=
tr">=EF=BB=BF</div></blockquote></div></div><div id=3D"yiv0152095042yqtfd97=
107" class=3D"yiv0152095042yqt5940126276"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div =
dir=3D"ltr">Hmm,</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D=
"ltr">Will a TR6 head fit? There is plenty of meat on those to get Ludicrou=
s Compression.&nbsp;</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div di=
r=3D"ltr">Bob</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"><blockquote type=3D"=
cite">On Dec 6, 2021, at 20:58, Scott Janzen via Fot &lt;[email-masked]=
&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></blockquote></div><blockq=
uote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF</div></blockquote></div></div=
><div><div id=3D"yiv0152095042yqtfd38264" class=3D"yiv0152095042yqt59401262=
76">I=E2=80=99ve found the GT6 head has some thin spots and depending on th=
e casting can=E2=80=99t take milling too much more than 11.5 to 1, maybe 12=
 if you get lucky with the right casting. &nbsp;As to the lore that circle =
B heads are the best, I have not found that to be correct in this respect. =
&nbsp;Seems like they are all over the map.<div class=3D"yiv0152095042">The=
 rest has to come from domed pistons, which I have not yet tried, so there=
=E2=80=99s probably some more HP to be found. &nbsp;</div><div class=3D"yiv=
0152095042">Before you mill a head, find a shop that can =E2=80=9Cxray=E2=
=80=9D it for you to tell you how thick the metal is above the cooling pass=
ages. &nbsp;When I had this done, they just marked the thickness directly o=
n the head with a market. &nbsp;If memory serves, one of the thinnest spots=
 is not quite outside the fire ring on the head gasket near #1. &nbsp;I had=
 one fail there that got milled 50/thousandths too much.</div><div class=3D=
"yiv0152095042"><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv0152095042"></div><div class=
=3D"yiv0152095042"><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv0152095042"><div><br clea=
r=3D"none" class=3D"yiv0152095042"><div class=3D"yiv0152095042">On Dec 6, 2=
021, at 1:36 PM, McKearn McKearn via Fot &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow noopener no=
referrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_b=
lank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" class=3D"yiv0152095042">fot@autox.=
team.net</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv0152095042Apple=
-interchange-newline"><div class=3D"yiv0152095042"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"yiv0152095042">Now that we have the crank and rods figured out, how abo=
ut we discuss making compression?<div class=3D"yiv0152095042">&nbsp;I know =
this can be a sore subject and everyone has an opinion as to how much is en=
ough or too much so where do we start?</div><div class=3D"yiv0152095042">&n=
bsp;I have built a couple TR6 engines that were in the 13:1 range thanks to=
 much head milling and pop up pistons. Will the 2.0 litre engine be the sam=
e ?</div><div class=3D"yiv0152095042">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Thanks.&nbsp; P.J.</div></div>
_______________________________________________<br clear=3D"none" class=3D"=
yiv0152095042"><a rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymail=
to=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:fot@autox=
.team.net" class=3D"yiv0152095042">[email-masked]</a><br clear=3D"none"=
 class=3D"yiv0152095042"><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv0152095042">http://=
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s=3D"yqt5940126276" id=3D"yqtfd93897">_____________________________________=
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---

From: DAVE HOGYE via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 08:45:51 -0800 (PST)

--===============7877385562745268695==
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Phil,
Greg Solow provided me with TR3-4 chamber volume numbers and their related =
compression ratios while I was building my TR3 engine.  49.6cc is what I en=
ded up with, an approximate ratio of 10.8:1.  Your numbers coincide.  I had=
 .125" milled off before shaping and opening the chamber to 49.6. =20
Good stuff.
Dave H.=20

>     On 12/07/2021 5:31 AM Phil Gott via Fot <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
>=20
>     If it helps, please find attached an Excel spreadsheet that calculate=
s both the current compression ratio as well as the head volume needed to g=
et the compression ratio you want.  Just put the dimensions in the yellow h=
ighlighted cells.  If running a pop up piston, you will need to determine t=
he volume of the pup up above the normal piston crown surface.  The spreads=
heet as attached has dimensions for a slightly modified TR4 with flat top p=
istons.  I hope this is self explanatory.
>     Yes they will, but that isn=E2=80=99t really the problem.  The extra =
stroke of the TR6 motor makes building compression easy.  The 2L motor is a=
 little more challenging because of the shorter stroke.  You just can=E2=80=
=99t shave enough off the head to get really high compression without getti=
ng into the water passages.  Pop ups are necessary to maximize compression.
>=20
>     Chuck
>=20
>=20
>         > > On Dec 6, 2021, at 6:40 PM, Bob Bownes -Seiri via Fot <fot@au=
tox.team.net> wrote:
> >=20
> >=20
> >     >=20
>         > >=20
> >=20
> >     >=20
>     Hmm,
>=20
>     Will a TR6 head fit? There is plenty of meat on those to get Ludicrou=
s Compression.=20
>=20
>     Bob
>=20
>=20
>         > > On Dec 6, 2021, at 20:58, Scott Janzen via Fot <[email-masked]=
m.net> wrote:
> >=20
> >=20
> >     >=20
>         > >=20
> >=20
> >     >     I=E2=80=99ve found the GT6 head has some thin spots and depen=
ding on the casting can=E2=80=99t take milling too much more than 11.5 to 1=
, maybe 12 if you get lucky with the right casting.  As to the lore that ci=
rcle B heads are the best, I have not found that to be correct in this resp=
ect.  Seems like they are all over the map.
>     The rest has to come from domed pistons, which I have not yet tried, =
so there=E2=80=99s probably some more HP to be found. =20
>     Before you mill a head, find a shop that can =E2=80=9Cxray=E2=80=9D i=
t for you to tell you how thick the metal is above the cooling passages.  W=
hen I had this done, they just marked the thickness directly on the head wi=
th a market.  If memory serves, one of the thinnest spots is not quite outs=
ide the fire ring on the head gasket near #1.  I had one fail there that go=
t milled 50/thousandths too much.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>     On Dec 6, 2021, at 1:36 PM, McKearn McKearn via Fot <[email-masked]=
et mailto:[email-masked] > wrote:
>=20
>     Now that we have the crank and rods figured out, how about we discuss=
 making compression?
>      I know this can be a sore subject and everyone has an opinion as to =
how much is enough or too much so where do we start?
>      I have built a couple TR6 engines that were in the 13:1 range thanks=
 to much head milling and pop up pistons. Will the 2.0 litre engine be the =
same ?
>     [email-masked] mailto:[email-masked]
>=20
>     Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/=
fot
>     Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/sjanzen=
@me.com
>     Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/=
fot
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web9.com
>     Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/=
fot
>=20
>     Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/chasgee=
[email-masked]
>     [email-masked] mailto:[email-masked]
>=20
>     http://www.fot-racing.com/
>=20
>=20
>     Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/archive =
http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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[email-masked]
>     Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/=
fot
>     Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/dlhogye=
@comcast.net

------=_Part_1566899_1996027102.1638895551368
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!doctype html>
<html>
 <head>=20
  <meta charset=3D"UTF-8">=20
 </head>
 <body>
  <div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;=
 color: #333333;">
   <span style=3D"font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;">Phil, </span>
   <br>
  </div>
  <div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;=
 color: #333333;" class=3D"default-style">
   <span style=3D"font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;">Greg Solow prov=
ided me with TR3-4 chamber volume numbers and their related compression rat=
ios while I was building my TR3 engine.&nbsp; 49.6cc is what I ended up wit=
h, an approximate ratio of 10.8:1.&nbsp; Your numbers coincide.&nbsp; I had=
 .125" milled off before shaping and opening the chamber to 49.6.&nbsp;&nbs=
p;</span>
  </div>
  <div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;=
 color: #333333;" class=3D"default-style">
   <span style=3D"font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;">Good stuff.</sp=
an>
  </div>
  <div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;=
 color: #333333;" class=3D"default-style">
   <span style=3D"font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;">Dave H.&nbsp;</=
span>
  </div>
  <blockquote type=3D"cite">
   <div>
    On 12/07/2021 5:31 AM Phil Gott via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrot=
e:
   </div>
   <div>
    <br>
   </div>
   <div>
    <br>
   </div>
   <div style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; =
color: black;">
    <div style=3D"font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;=
 color: black;">
     If it helps, please find attached an Excel spreadsheet that calculates=
 both the current compression ratio as well as the head volume needed to ge=
t the compression ratio you want. &nbsp;Just put the dimensions in the yell=
ow highlighted cells. &nbsp;If running a pop up piston, you will need to de=
termine the volume of the pup up above the normal piston crown surface. &nb=
sp;The spreadsheet as attached has dimensions for a slightly modified TR4 w=
ith flat top pistons. &nbsp;I hope this is self explanatory.
    </div>
    <div style=3D"font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;=
 color: black;">
     <br>
    </div>
    <div style=3D"font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;=
 color: black;">
     Regards,
    </div>
    <div style=3D"font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;=
 color: black;">
     <br>
    </div>
    <div style=3D"font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;=
 color: black;">
     Phil Gott
     <br>
     <br>
     <br>-----Original Message-----
     <br>From: Chuck Gee via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt;
     <br>To: Bob Bownes -Seiri &lt;[email-masked]&gt;
     <br>Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' Triumph &lt;[email-masked]&gt;
     <br>Sent: Mon, Dec 6, 2021 10:51 pm
     <br>Subject: Re: [Fot] Compression
     <br>
     <br>
    </div>
    <div id=3D"yiv0152095042">
     <div>
      Yes they will, but that isn=E2=80=99t really the problem. &nbsp;The e=
xtra stroke of the TR6 motor makes building compression easy. &nbsp;The 2L =
motor is a little more challenging because of the shorter stroke. &nbsp;You=
 just can=E2=80=99t shave enough off the head to get really high compressio=
n without getting into the water passages. &nbsp;Pop ups are necessary to m=
aximize compression.
      <br clear=3D"none">
      <br clear=3D"none">
      <div dir=3D"ltr">
       Chuck
      </div>
      <div dir=3D"ltr">
       <div class=3D"yiv0152095042yqt5940126276" id=3D"yiv0152095042yqtfd41=
027">
        <br clear=3D"none">
        <blockquote type=3D"cite">
         On Dec 6, 2021, at 6:40 PM, Bob Bownes -Seiri via Fot &lt;fot@auto=
x.team.net&gt; wrote:
         <br clear=3D"none">
         <br clear=3D"none">
        </blockquote>
       </div>
      </div>
      <div class=3D"yiv0152095042yqt5940126276" id=3D"yiv0152095042yqtfd133=
30">
       <blockquote type=3D"cite">
        <div dir=3D"ltr">
         <br>
        </div>
       </blockquote>
      </div>
     </div>
     <div class=3D"yiv0152095042yqt5940126276" id=3D"yiv0152095042yqtfd9710=
7">
      <div>
       <div dir=3D"ltr">
        <br>
       </div>
       <div dir=3D"ltr">
        Hmm,
       </div>
       <div dir=3D"ltr">
        <br clear=3D"none">
       </div>
       <div dir=3D"ltr">
        Will a TR6 head fit? There is plenty of meat on those to get Ludicr=
ous Compression.&nbsp;
       </div>
       <div dir=3D"ltr">
        <br clear=3D"none">
       </div>
       <div dir=3D"ltr">
        Bob
       </div>
       <div dir=3D"ltr">
        <br clear=3D"none">
        <blockquote type=3D"cite">
         On Dec 6, 2021, at 20:58, Scott Janzen via Fot &lt;[email-masked].=
net&gt; wrote:
         <br clear=3D"none">
         <br clear=3D"none">
        </blockquote>
       </div>
       <blockquote type=3D"cite">
        <div dir=3D"ltr">
         <br>
        </div>
       </blockquote>
      </div>
     </div>
     <div>
      <div class=3D"yiv0152095042yqt5940126276" id=3D"yiv0152095042yqtfd382=
64">
       I=E2=80=99ve found the GT6 head has some thin spots and depending on=
 the casting can=E2=80=99t take milling too much more than 11.5 to 1, maybe=
 12 if you get lucky with the right casting. &nbsp;As to the lore that circ=
le B heads are the best, I have not found that to be correct in this respec=
t. &nbsp;Seems like they are all over the map.
       <div class=3D"yiv0152095042">
        The rest has to come from domed pistons, which I have not yet tried=
, so there=E2=80=99s probably some more HP to be found. &nbsp;
       </div>
       <div class=3D"yiv0152095042">
        Before you mill a head, find a shop that can =E2=80=9Cxray=E2=80=9D=
 it for you to tell you how thick the metal is above the cooling passages. =
&nbsp;When I had this done, they just marked the thickness directly on the =
head with a market. &nbsp;If memory serves, one of the thinnest spots is no=
t quite outside the fire ring on the head gasket near #1. &nbsp;I had one f=
ail there that got milled 50/thousandths too much.
       </div>
       <div class=3D"yiv0152095042">
        <br class=3D"yiv0152095042" clear=3D"none">
       </div>
       <div class=3D"yiv0152095042">
        <br class=3D"yiv0152095042" clear=3D"none">
        <div>
         <br class=3D"yiv0152095042" clear=3D"none">
         <div class=3D"yiv0152095042">
          On Dec 6, 2021, at 1:36 PM, McKearn McKearn via Fot &lt;<a class=
=3D"yiv0152095042" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" sha=
pe=3D"rect" rel=3D"noopener">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:
         </div>
         <br class=3D"yiv0152095042Apple-interchange-newline" clear=3D"none=
">
         <div class=3D"yiv0152095042">
          <div class=3D"yiv0152095042" dir=3D"ltr">
           Now that we have the crank and rods figured out, how about we di=
scuss making compression?
           <div class=3D"yiv0152095042">
            &nbsp;I know this can be a sore subject and everyone has an opi=
nion as to how much is enough or too much so where do we start?
           </div>
           <div class=3D"yiv0152095042">
            &nbsp;I have built a couple TR6 engines that were in the 13:1 r=
ange thanks to much head milling and pop up pistons. Will the 2.0 litre eng=
ine be the same ?
           </div>
           <div class=3D"yiv0152095042">
            &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Thank=
s.&nbsp; P.J.
           </div>
          </div>_______________________________________________
          <br class=3D"yiv0152095042" clear=3D"none"><a class=3D"yiv0152095=
042" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" shape=3D"rect" re=
l=3D"noopener">[email-masked]</a>
          <br class=3D"yiv0152095042" clear=3D"none">
          <br class=3D"yiv0152095042" clear=3D"none">http://www.fot-racing.=
com
          <br class=3D"yiv0152095042" clear=3D"none">
          <br class=3D"yiv0152095042" clear=3D"none">Donate: http://www.tea=
m.net/donate.html
          <br class=3D"yiv0152095042" clear=3D"none">Archive: http://autox.=
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         </div>
        </div>
        <br class=3D"yiv0152095042" clear=3D"none">
       </div>_______________________________________________
       <br clear=3D"none">[email-masked]
       <br clear=3D"none">
       <br clear=3D"none">http://www.fot-racing.com
       <br clear=3D"none">
       <br clear=3D"none">Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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       <br clear=3D"none">[email-masked]
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       <br clear=3D"none">http://www.fot-racing.com
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    <div id=3D"yqtfd93897" class=3D"yqt5940126276">
     _______________________________________________
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</html>
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---

From: Rick Parent via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 17:25:07 +0000 (UTC)

------=_Part_359536_2145397919.1638897907459
	boundary="----=_Part_359535_878885585.1638897907420"

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Don't worry, it's almost impossible to get too much compression out of that=
 motor. If you can get the piston to valve clearance to (intake .055, exhau=
st .110) ((make sure you are using good valve springs!)) you will have abou=
t 210-230psi cranking pressure depending on you camshaft specs which is goo=
d enough. I like to see closer to 250psi + but its tough to get there with =
the small motors. The dynamic compression is a better indicator of what's g=
oing on in the motor. The static compression "in my opinion" is not the bes=
t way to look at things because you can have 15-1 static compression with a=
 cam that's too large and end up with 210lbs of cranking pressure, you woul=
d be better off to have an 11-1 motor with the right camshaft at 110psi of =
cranking pressure. Both engines would make about the same top end HP but th=
e 11-1 motor will have a ton of bottom and midrange comparatively speaking =
making it a way better race motor.
Just my overly wordy 2 cents, haha.
Rick Parent
"Doing the right thing is always the right thing, regardless of consequence=
s"
=20

     On Tuesday, December 7, 2021, 08:31:41 AM EST, Phil Gott via Fot <fot@=
autox.team.net> wrote: =20
=20
 If it helps, please find attached an Excel spreadsheet that calculates bot=
h the current compression ratio as well as the head volume needed to get th=
e compression ratio you want. =C2=A0Just put the dimensions in the yellow h=
ighlighted cells. =C2=A0If running a pop up piston, you will need to determ=
ine the volume of the pup up above the normal piston crown surface. =C2=A0T=
he spreadsheet as attached has dimensions for a slightly modified TR4 with =
flat top pistons. =C2=A0I hope this is self explanatory.
Regards,
Phil Gott

-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Gee via Fot <[email-masked]>
To: Bob Bownes -Seiri <[email-masked]>
Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' Triumph <[email-masked]>
Sent: Mon, Dec 6, 2021 10:51 pm
Subject: Re: [Fot] Compression

Chuck

=EF=BB=BF
Hmm,

=EF=BB=BF

tt.net

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<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"ydp9cc53156yahoo-style-wrap" style=
=3D"font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px=
;"><div id=3D"ydp9cc53156yiv1194435725"><div><div style=3D"font-family:Helv=
etica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;" class=3D"ydp9cc53=
156yiv1194435725ydp32562fdyahoo-style-wrap"><div><div dir=3D"ltr">Don't wor=
ry, it's almost impossible to get too much compression out of that motor. I=
f you can get the piston to valve clearance to (intake .055, exhaust .110) =
((make sure you are using good valve springs!)) you will have about 210-230=
psi cranking pressure depending on you camshaft specs which is good enough.=
 I like to see closer to 250psi + but its tough to get there with the small=
 motors. The dynamic compression is a better indicator of what's going on i=
n the motor. The static compression "in my opinion" is not the best way to =
look at things because you can have 15-1 static compression with a cam that=
's too large and end up with 210lbs of cranking pressure, you would be bett=
er off to have an 11-1 motor with the right camshaft at 110psi of cranking =
pressure. Both engines would make about the same top end HP but the 11-1 mo=
tor will have a ton of bottom and midrange comparatively speaking making it=
 a way better race motor.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr">Just my overly wordy 2 cents, haha.</div><div><br clear=3D"n=
one"></div><div class=3D"ydp9cc53156yiv1194435725ydp32562fdsignature"><div =
style=3D"font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div dir=
=3D"ltr">Rick Parent</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div di=
r=3D"ltr">"<i>Doing the right thing is always the right thing, regardless o=
f consequences</i>"</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div></div></=
div></div>
        <div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
       =20
        </div><div id=3D"ydp9cc53156yiv1194435725yahoo_quoted_9670480986" c=
lass=3D"ydp9cc53156yiv1194435725yahoo_quoted">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
               =20
            </div>
        </div></div></div></div><div id=3D"yiv1194435725yqt00853" class=3D"=
yiv1194435725yqt9270774655"><div>
                    On Tuesday, December 7, 2021, 08:31:41 AM EST, Phil Got=
t via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
                <div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
                <div><div id=3D"yiv1194435725"><div><div style=3D"font-size=
:10pt;font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;color:black;"><div style=3D"=
font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:black;">If it=
 helps, please find attached an Excel spreadsheet that calculates both the =
current compression ratio as well as the head volume needed to get the comp=
ression ratio you want. &nbsp;Just put the dimensions in the yellow highlig=
hted cells. &nbsp;If running a pop up piston, you will need to determine th=
e volume of the pup up above the normal piston crown surface. &nbsp;The spr=
eadsheet as attached has dimensions for a slightly modified TR4 with flat t=
op pistons. &nbsp;I hope this is self explanatory.</div><div style=3D"font-=
family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:black;"><br clear=
=3D"none"></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font=
-size:10pt;color:black;">Regards,</div><div style=3D"font-family:arial, hel=
vetica, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:black;"><br clear=3D"none"></div><d=
iv style=3D"font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:b=
lack;">Phil Gott<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">--=
---Original Message-----<br clear=3D"none">From: Chuck Gee via Fot &lt;fot@=
autox.team.net&gt;<br clear=3D"none">To: Bob Bownes -Seiri &lt;bownes@seiri=
.com&gt;<br clear=3D"none">Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' Triumph &lt;[email-masked]=
eam.net&gt;<br clear=3D"none">Sent: Mon, Dec 6, 2021 10:51 pm<br clear=3D"n=
one">Subject: Re: [Fot] Compression<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></=
div><div id=3D"yiv1194435725yqt98574" class=3D"yiv1194435725yqt8511057843">=
<div id=3D"yiv1194435725"><div>Yes they will, but that isn=E2=80=99t really=
 the problem. &nbsp;The extra stroke of the TR6 motor makes building compre=
ssion easy. &nbsp;The 2L motor is a little more challenging because of the =
shorter stroke. &nbsp;You just can=E2=80=99t shave enough off the head to g=
et really high compression without getting into the water passages. &nbsp;P=
op ups are necessary to maximize compression.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=
=3D"none"><div dir=3D"ltr">Chuck</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div id=3D"yiv119443=
5725yqtfd41027" class=3D"yiv1194435725yqt5940126276"><br clear=3D"none"><bl=
ockquote type=3D"cite">On Dec 6, 2021, at 6:40 PM, Bob Bownes -Seiri via Fo=
t &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></=
blockquote></div></div><div id=3D"yiv1194435725yqtfd13330" class=3D"yiv1194=
435725yqt5940126276"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF</=
div></blockquote></div></div><div id=3D"yiv1194435725yqtfd97107" class=3D"y=
iv1194435725yqt5940126276"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Hmm=
,</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Will a TR=
6 head fit? There is plenty of meat on those to get Ludicrous Compression.&=
nbsp;</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Bob</=
div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Dec 6,=
 2021, at 20:58, Scott Janzen via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br =
clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"ci=
te"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF</div></blockquote></div></div><div><div id=
=3D"yiv1194435725yqtfd38264" class=3D"yiv1194435725yqt5940126276">I=E2=80=
=99ve found the GT6 head has some thin spots and depending on the casting c=
an=E2=80=99t take milling too much more than 11.5 to 1, maybe 12 if you get=
 lucky with the right casting. &nbsp;As to the lore that circle B heads are=
 the best, I have not found that to be correct in this respect. &nbsp;Seems=
 like they are all over the map.<div class=3D"yiv1194435725">The rest has t=
o come from domed pistons, which I have not yet tried, so there=E2=80=99s p=
robably some more HP to be found. &nbsp;</div><div class=3D"yiv1194435725">=
Before you mill a head, find a shop that can =E2=80=9Cxray=E2=80=9D it for =
you to tell you how thick the metal is above the cooling passages. &nbsp;Wh=
en I had this done, they just marked the thickness directly on the head wit=
h a market. &nbsp;If memory serves, one of the thinnest spots is not quite =
outside the fire ring on the head gasket near #1. &nbsp;I had one fail ther=
e that got milled 50/thousandths too much.</div><div class=3D"yiv1194435725=
"><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv1194435725"></div><div class=3D"yiv1194435=
725"><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv1194435725"><div><br clear=3D"none" cla=
ss=3D"yiv1194435725"><div class=3D"yiv1194435725">On Dec 6, 2021, at 1:36 P=
M, McKearn McKearn via Fot &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" shap=
e=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"=
mailto:[email-masked]" class=3D"yiv1194435725">[email-masked]</a>&g=
t; wrote:</div><br clear=3D"none" class=3D"yiv1194435725Apple-interchange-n=
ewline"><div class=3D"yiv1194435725"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"yiv119443572=
5">Now that we have the crank and rods figured out, how about we discuss ma=
king compression?<div class=3D"yiv1194435725">&nbsp;I know this can be a so=
re subject and everyone has an opinion as to how much is enough or too much=
 so where do we start?</div><div class=3D"yiv1194435725">&nbsp;I have built=
 a couple TR6 engines that were in the 13:1 range thanks to much head milli=
ng and pop up pistons. Will the 2.0 litre engine be the same ?</div><div cl=
ass=3D"yiv1194435725">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; Thanks.&nbsp; P.J.</div></div>
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