Subject: Re: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race pistons and liners

From: Henry Frye via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2021 12:24:01 -0500

A heck of a lot of races have been won by wet-liner TR's running pop-up 
pistons. And I'll bet none of them ever had a head collapse.

Just sayin'...

On 2021-11-09 11:44, Alexandre Camoletti via Fot wrote:
> Gents,
> 
> I recall, but I may be mistaken, that Kas wrote in one of his books
> that he had experimented pop up pistons but because of the specific
> shape of the TR2-4 combustion chambers the pop up design was
> detrimental to the propagation of the flame front and actually this
> was offsetting the compression gain, so he abandoned this route to
> remain on the traditional milling one (with thin steel headgasket,
> which can make quite an additional difference).
_______________________________________________
[email-masked]

http://www.fot-racing.com

Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot

---

From: Paul Ricco via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 11:57:09 -0600

As a very good industrial trainer once told me while I was being certified to work with products that his company manufactures, 

“There has been millions of dollars in research spent to develop the products that we engineer and sell.  They all work perfectly if you follow the directions provided with them.  However, most people do not follow the directions and they get less than ideal results”

So in short I have learned that there are a lot of good approaches, if they are executed properly and the owner is happy with the path chosen.

Paul Ricco

> On Nov 9, 2021, at 11:24 AM, Henry Frye via Fot <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> A heck of a lot of races have been won by wet-liner TR's running pop-up pistons. And I'll bet none of them ever had a head collapse.
> 
> Just sayin'...
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
> 
> 

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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From: Don Marshall via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 15:20:54 -0500

--0000000000006319b305d060d969

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On Tue, Nov 9, 2021, 12:26 PM Henry Frye via Fot <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Unsubscribe/Manage <http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage>:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"auto"><div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Nov 9, 2021, 12:26 PM Henry Frye via Fot &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><=
/div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-le=
ft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">A heck of a lot of races have been won =
by wet-liner TR&#39;s running pop-up <br>
pistons. And I&#39;ll bet none of them ever had a head collapse.<br>
<br>
Just sayin&#39;...<br>
<br>
On 2021-11-09 11:44, Alexandre Camoletti via Fot wrote:<br>
&gt; Gents,<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; I recall, but I may be mistaken, that Kas wrote in one of his books<br=
&gt; that he had experimented pop up pistons but because of the specific<br=
&gt; shape of the TR2-4 combustion chambers the pop up design was<br>
&gt; detrimental to the propagation of the flame front and actually this<br=
&gt; was offsetting the compression gain, so he abandoned this route to<br>
&gt; remain on the traditional milling one (with thin steel headgasket,<br>
&gt; which can make quite an additional difference).<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">=
[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br>
<br>
errer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer norefe=
rrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a href=3D"http:/=
/www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer=
" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot<br>
t/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http:/=
/autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div></div></div>

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From: Jim Gray via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 15:03:59 -0700

This is a multipart message in MIME format.

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Either a catastrophic, nonlinear mechanical exasperation or a sudden un =
scheduled disassembly.

jg

From: Fot <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of Don Marshall via Fot
Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 1:21 PM
To: [email-masked]
Cc: Friends of Triumph <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race =
pistons and liners

=20

=20

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021, 12:26 PM Henry Frye via Fot <[email-masked] =

A heck of a lot of races have been won by wet-liner TR's running pop-up=20
pistons. And I'll bet none of them ever had a head collapse.

Just sayin'...

On 2021-11-09 11:44, Alexandre Camoletti via Fot wrote:
>=20

Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot =
<http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage>=20
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]

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vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'word-wrap:break-word'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>Either a catastrophic, =
nonlinear mechanical exasperation or a sudden un scheduled =
disassembly.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>jg<o:p></o:p></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Fot =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>Don Marshall via =
Fot<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 9, 2021 1:21 PM<br><b>To:</b> =
[email-masked]<br><b>Cc:</b> Friends of Triumph =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] pop up pistons =
for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race pistons and =
liners<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>On Tue, Nov 9, 2021, 12:26 PM Henry Frye via Fot =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>A heck of a lot of races have been won by =
wet-liner TR's running pop-up <br>pistons. And I'll bet none of them =
ever had a head collapse.<br><br>Just sayin'...<br><br>On 2021-11-09 =
11:44, Alexandre Camoletti via Fot wrote:<br>&gt; Gents,<br>&gt; =
<br>&gt; I recall, but I may be mistaken, that Kas wrote in one of his =
books<br>&gt; that he had experimented pop up pistons but because of the =
specific<br>&gt; shape of the TR2-4 combustion chambers the pop up =
design was<br>&gt; detrimental to the propagation of the flame front and =
actually this<br>&gt; was offsetting the compression gain, so he =
abandoned this route to<br>&gt; remain on the traditional milling one =
(with thin steel headgasket,<br>&gt; which can make quite an additional =
difference).<br>_______________________________________________<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br><br><a =
href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br><br>Donate: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Archive: <a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" =
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot<br>Unsubscribe/Manage=
</a>: <a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/dmar823@gmail=
.com</a><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></div></div></div></bod=
y></html>
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From: fubog1 via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2021 14:27:04 +0000 (UTC)

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 The lump on the piston sure will disrupt flame travel & swirl, and that ca=
n lead to detonation.You'll be able to see it on the chamber/piston top; it=
'll be perfectly clean where there hasn't been any burn.A .050ish lump work=
s well if the edges are all chamfered so that the mixture isn't trapped any=
where, but the pistons with a real "dome" that don't require much head mill=
ing are worthless in a race engine.
Glen Efinger
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Alexandre Camoletti via Fot <[email-masked]>
To: 'Mike Harmuth' <[email-masked]>; 'Erik Jacobsen' <kekjacobsen@yahoo.=
com>
Cc: [email-masked]
Sent: Tue, Nov 9, 2021 11:44 am
Subject: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race pistons a=
nd liners

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466933430 div.yiv4466933430WordSection1 {}-->Gents, I recall, but I may be =
mistaken, that Kas wrote in one of his books that he had experimented pop u=
p pistons but because of the specific shape of the TR2-4 combustion chamber=
s the pop up design was detrimental to the propagation of the flame front a=
nd actually this was offsetting the compression gain, so he abandoned this =
route to remain on the traditional milling one (with thin steel headgasket,=
 which can make quite an additional difference). =C2=A0De=C2=A0: Fot [mailt=
o:[email-masked]] De la part de Mike Harmuth via Fot
Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0: mardi 9 novembre 2021 15:26
=C3=80=C2=A0: Erik Jacobsen
Cc=C2=A0: FOT Triumph
Objet=C2=A0: Re: [Fot] TR3 Race pistons and liners =C2=A0I don't know what =
size jugs you have on the engine but I came across these new Venolia TR pis=
tons on E-Bay the other day. The shop selling them has gotten some bad pres=
s since the original=C2=A0owner moved on but it looks like they're in the p=
rocess of selling off old inventory and these seem like a good price. I bou=
ght a set of Venolia Spitfire pistons from them yesterday and they're on th=
e way.NFI, just passing this on =C2=A0https://www.ebay.com/itm/384398239541=
?hash=3Ditem597feba735:g:fxIAAOSwUYVheVG5 =C2=A0mike h =C2=A0On Tue, Nov 9,=
 2021 at 9:05 AM Erik Jacobsen via Fot <[email-masked]> wrote:
Good morning FoT!Karen and I are working on the TR3 race car, and are looki=
ng for your advice on pistons and liners for it. We are attempting to build=
 a (semi) streetable race motor for our 3. It has a Crane 244-310-8 cam, an=
d the head has been ported and is running big valves, so we are figuring th=
e compression should be in the 10.5-11.5:1 range. It has H-beam rods and a =
worked crank, but we will still keep the revs under 6500 in an attempt to k=
eep it all in one piece.=C2=A0There seems to be very little info on what pe=
ople are running for race pistons floating around on the net.=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0Thanks!Jake & Karen Jacobsen=C2=A0___________________________________=
____________
[email-masked]

.com

m

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<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">
<div id=3D"yiv4466933430">
<div>
<div style=3D"color:black;font:10pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">

<div> <font size=3D"2">The lump on the piston sure will disrupt flame trave=
l &amp; swirl, and that can lead to detonation.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2">You'll be able to see it on the chamber/piston top; i=
t'll be perfectly clean where there hasn't been any burn.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2">A .050ish lump works well if the edges are all chamfe=
red so that the mixture isn't trapped anywhere, but the pistons with a real=
 "dome" that don't require much head milling are worthless in a race engine=
.</font></div>

<div><br>
</div>

<div><font size=3D"2">Glen Efinger</font><br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div> <br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div> <br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black;"><fo=
nt size=3D"2">-----Original Message-----<br clear=3D"none">
From: Alexandre Camoletti via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br clear=3D"no=
ne">
To: 'Mike Harmuth' &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; 'Erik Jacobsen' &lt;kekjacobs=
[email-masked]&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
Cc: [email-masked]<br clear=3D"none">
Sent: Tue, Nov 9, 2021 11:44 am<br clear=3D"none">
Subject: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race pistons a=
nd liners<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">

</font>
<div id=3D"yiv4466933430yqt16954" class=3D"yiv4466933430yqt6198582667">
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<div>

<div class=3D"yiv4466933430WordSection1">

<div class=3D"yiv4466933430MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.5pt;" lan=
g=3D"EN-US">Gents, </span></div>

<div class=3D"yiv4466933430MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.5pt;" lan=
g=3D"EN-US">I recall, but I may be mistaken, that Kas wrote in one of his b=
ooks that he had experimented pop up pistons but because of the specific sh=
ape of the TR2-4 combustion chambers the pop up design was detrimental to t=
he propagation of the flame front and actually this was offsetting the comp=
ression gain, so he abandoned this route to remain on the traditional milli=
ng one (with thin steel headgasket, which can make quite an additional diff=
erence).</span></div>

<div class=3D"yiv4466933430MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.5pt;" lan=
g=3D"EN-US"> &nbsp;</span></div>

<div class=3D"yiv4466933430MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;" =
lang=3D"FR">De&nbsp;:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;" lang=3D"F=
R"> Fot [mailto:[email-masked]] <b>De la part de</b> Mike Harmu=
th via Fot<br clear=3D"none">
<b>Envoy=C3=A9&nbsp;:</b> mardi 9 novembre 2021 15:26<br clear=3D"none">
<b>=C3=80&nbsp;:</b> Erik Jacobsen<br clear=3D"none">
<b>Cc&nbsp;:</b> FOT Triumph<br clear=3D"none">
<b>Objet&nbsp;:</b> Re: [Fot] TR3 Race pistons and liners</span></div>

<div class=3D"yiv4466933430MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</div>

<div>

<div class=3D"yiv4466933430MsoNormal">I don't know what size jugs you have =
on the engine but I came across these new Venolia TR pistons on E-Bay the o=
ther day. The shop selling them has gotten some bad press since the origina=
l&nbsp;owner moved on but it looks like they're in the process of selling o=
ff old inventory and these seem like a good price. I bought a set of Venoli=
a Spitfire pistons from them yesterday and they're on the way.</div>

<div>

<div class=3D"yiv4466933430MsoNormal">NFI, just passing this on</div>

</div>

<div>

<div class=3D"yiv4466933430MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</div>

</div>

<div>

<div class=3D"yiv4466933430MsoNormal"><a rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferre=
r" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"https://www.ebay.com/itm/384398=
239541?hash=3Ditem597feba735:g:fxIAAOSwUYVheVG5">https://www.ebay.com/itm/3=
84398239541?hash=3Ditem597feba735:g:fxIAAOSwUYVheVG5</a></div>

</div>

<div>

<div class=3D"yiv4466933430MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</div>

</div>

<div>

<div class=3D"yiv4466933430MsoNormal">mike h</div>

</div>

</div>

<div class=3D"yiv4466933430MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</div>

<div>

<div>

<div class=3D"yiv4466933430MsoNormal">On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 9:05 AM Erik J=
acobsen via Fot &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" =
ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:fot@=
autox.team.net">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div>

</div>

<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm;">

<div>

<div>

<div>

<div class=3D"yiv4466933430MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">Good morning FoT!</s=
pan></div>

</div>

<div>

<div class=3D"yiv4466933430MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">Karen and I are work=
ing on the TR3 race car, and are looking for your advice on pistons and lin=
ers for it. We are attempting to build a (semi) streetable race motor for o=
ur 3. It has a Crane 244-310-8 cam, and the head has been ported and is run=
ning big valves, so we are figuring the compression should be in the 10.5-1=
1.5:1 range. It has H-beam rods and a worked crank, but we will still keep =
the revs under 6500 in an attempt to keep it all in one piece.&nbsp;</span>=
</div>

</div>

<div>

<div class=3D"yiv4466933430MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">There seems to be ve=
ry little info on what people are running for race pistons floating around =
on the net.&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></div>

</div>

<div>

<div class=3D"yiv4466933430MsoNormal"><span style=3D""> &nbsp;</span></div>

</div>

<div>

<div class=3D"yiv4466933430MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">Thanks!</span></div>

</div>

<div>

<div class=3D"yiv4466933430MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">Jake &amp; Karen Jac=
obsen&nbsp;</span></div>

</div>

</div>

</div>

<div style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;" class=3D"yiv4466933430MsoNormal">_____=
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</blockquote></div>

</div>

</div>

</div>
</div>

_______________________________________________<br clear=3D"none">
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</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

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