Subject: Re: [Fot] Seat Belts

From: Gary Schneider via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2020 20:41:49 +0000 (UTC)

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 Tony,Gretchen's Mini for 20 years has always had two crotch straps run thr=
u the one seat hole, both secured to one central eyebolt in the floor. No o=
ne's ever questioned it (altho I'll grant you an MC tech is not the most pe=
rsnickety I've ever seen.)
I notice MC, SCCA, VSCDA, VARA, VRG, RMVR rules all specify 5 or 6-point ha=
rnesses. SCCA only includes 7-point. Most recommend above 5 points but none=
 require it.=20

Interestingly, I find no reference in any of the above rules to 6-point har=
nesses requiring two individual anti-sub attachment points. SCCA specifical=
ly allows attaching anti-sub straps to the same two attachment points as th=
e lap belts but does not require it. Only lap and shoulder belts require in=
dividual attachment points. (12-2020 GCR p. 76) You might verify with any o=
ther organizations you run with.

Cheers,Gary Schneider

    On Wednesday, December 9, 2020, 1:56:57 PM CST, Tony Drews via Fot <fot=
@autox.team.net> wrote: =20
=20
 The talk of helmets and suppliers reminded me to ask this question...=C2=
=A0=20
My FIA seat belt 5 years is up, so I need to replace them.=C2=A0 I have a 5=
=20
point harness.=C2=A0 Everything I'm seeing FIA or SFI is now a 6 point=20
harness with two crotch straps.=C2=A0 Of course I have ONE hole in my seat=
=20
and one eye bolt for the crotch strap currently.

How are folks doing the revised crotch strap situation?

Thanks, Tony Drews

_______________________________________________
[email-masked]

http://www.fot-racing.com

Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
lobal.net

 =20
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<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"ydpe1ed8529yahoo-style-wrap" style=
=3D"font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px=
;"><div></div>
        <div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Tony,</div><div dir=3D"ltr" =
data-setdir=3D"false">Gretchen's Mini for 20 years has always had two crotc=
h straps run thru the one seat hole, both secured to one central eyebolt in=
 the floor. No one's ever questioned it (altho I'll grant you an MC tech is=
 not the most persnickety I've ever seen.)</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdi=
r=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">I notice MC, S=
CCA, VSCDA, VARA, VRG, RMVR rules all specify 5 <u>or</u> 6-point harnesses=
. SCCA only includes 7-point. Most recommend above 5 points but none requir=
e it. <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Interestingly, I find no reference in any of=
 the above rules to 6-point harnesses requiring two individual anti-sub att=
achment points. SCCA specifically allows attaching anti-sub straps to the s=
ame two attachment points as the lap belts but does not require it. Only la=
p and shoulder belts require individual attachment points. (12-2020 GCR p. =
76) You might verify with any other organizations you run with.<br><div><br=
></div></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"l=
tr" data-setdir=3D"false">Cheers,</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"fals=
e">Gary Schneider<br></div><div><br></div>
       =20
        </div><div id=3D"ydp5f6ac608yahoo_quoted_8252350633" class=3D"ydp5f=
6ac608yahoo_quoted">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
                <div>
                    On Wednesday, December 9, 2020, 1:56:57 PM CST, Tony Dr=
ews via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><div dir=3D"ltr">The talk of helmets and suppliers rem=
inded me to ask this question...&nbsp; <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">My FIA se=
at belt 5 years is up, so I need to replace them.&nbsp; I have a 5 <br></di=
v><div dir=3D"ltr">point harness.&nbsp; Everything I'm seeing FIA or SFI is=
 now a 6 point <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">harness with two crotch straps.&n=
bsp; Of course I have ONE hole in my seat <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">and on=
e eye bolt for the crotch strap currently.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></=
div><div dir=3D"ltr">How are folks doing the revised crotch strap situation=
?<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Thanks, Tony Drews<b=
r></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">_______________________=
________________________<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><a href=3D"mailto:fot@au=
tox.team.net" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br>=
</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><a href=3D"http://www.fot=
-racing.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</=
a><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Donate: <a href=3D"=
www.team.net/donate.html</a><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Archive: <a href=3D"=
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_______________________________________________
[email-masked]

http://www.fot-racing.com

Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot

--===============6612903882230140451==--

---

From: Erik Jacobsen via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2020 20:47:50 +0000 (UTC)

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 Tony,I have my 6-points going through the one seat hole then angle out fro=
m the center and attached separately through the floor. Never had any tech =
issues with a number of sanctioning bodies (VARA, CVAR, SVRA, VSCDA).=C2=A0
Jake
    On Wednesday, December 9, 2020, 02:42:45 PM CST, Gary Schneider via Fot=
 <[email-masked]> wrote: =20
=20
  Tony,Gretchen's Mini for 20 years has always had two crotch straps run th=
ru the one seat hole, both secured to one central eyebolt in the floor. No =
one's ever questioned it (altho I'll grant you an MC tech is not the most p=
ersnickety I've ever seen.)
I notice MC, SCCA, VSCDA, VARA, VRG, RMVR rules all specify 5 or 6-point ha=
rnesses. SCCA only includes 7-point. Most recommend above 5 points but none=
 require it.=20

Cheers,Gary Schneider

Thanks, Tony Drews

ahoo.com

 =20
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<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"ydp3e1a157yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D=
"font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">=
<div></div>
        <div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Tony,</div><div dir=3D"ltr" =
data-setdir=3D"false">I have my 6-points going through the one seat hole th=
en angle out from the center and attached separately through the floor. Nev=
er had any tech issues with a number of sanctioning bodies (VARA, CVAR, SVR=
A, VSCDA).&nbsp;</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div=
 dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Jake</div><div><br></div>
       =20
        </div><div id=3D"ydp1c2b41fbyahoo_quoted_8432185827" class=3D"ydp1c=
2b41fbyahoo_quoted">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
                <div>
                    On Wednesday, December 9, 2020, 02:42:45 PM CST, Gary S=
chneider via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><div id=3D"ydp1c2b41fbyiv4031969252"><div><div class=
=3D"ydp1c2b41fbyiv4031969252ydpe1ed8529yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-fami=
ly:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div></div=
        <div dir=3D"ltr">Tony,</div><div dir=3D"ltr">Gretchen's Mini for 20=
 years has always had two crotch straps run thru the one seat hole, both se=
cured to one central eyebolt in the floor. No one's ever questioned it (alt=
ho I'll grant you an MC tech is not the most persnickety I've ever seen.)</=
div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">I notice MC,=
 SCCA, VSCDA, VARA, VRG, RMVR rules all specify 5 <u>or</u> 6-point harness=
es. SCCA only includes 7-point. Most recommend above 5 points but none requ=
ire it. <br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div>=
<div dir=3D"ltr">Interestingly, I find no reference in any of the above rul=
es to 6-point harnesses requiring two individual anti-sub attachment points=
. SCCA specifically allows attaching anti-sub straps to the same two attach=
ment points as the lap belts but does not require it. Only lap and shoulder=
 belts require individual attachment points. (12-2020 GCR p. 76) You might =
verify with any other organizations you run with.<br clear=3D"none"><div><b=
r clear=3D"none"></div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div=
 dir=3D"ltr">Cheers,</div><div dir=3D"ltr">Gary Schneider<br clear=3D"none"=
></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
       =20
        </div><div class=3D"ydp1c2b41fbyiv4031969252ydp5f6ac608yahoo_quoted=
" id=3D"ydp1c2b41fbyiv4031969252ydp5f6ac608yahoo_quoted_8252350633">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
                <div class=3D"ydp1c2b41fbyiv4031969252yqt8855537336" id=3D"=
ydp1c2b41fbyiv4031969252yqtfd62361"><div>
                    On Wednesday, December 9, 2020, 1:56:57 PM CST, Tony Dr=
ews via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
                <div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
                </div><div><div class=3D"ydp1c2b41fbyiv4031969252yqt8855537=
336" id=3D"ydp1c2b41fbyiv4031969252yqtfd55882"><div dir=3D"ltr">The talk of=
 helmets and suppliers reminded me to ask this question...&nbsp; <br clear=
=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">My FIA seat belt 5 years is up, so I need =
to replace them.&nbsp; I have a 5 <br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr"=
>point harness.&nbsp; Everything I'm seeing FIA or SFI is now a 6 point <br=
 clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">harness with two crotch straps.&nbsp=
; Of course I have ONE hole in my seat <br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D=
"ltr">and one eye bolt for the crotch strap currently.<br clear=3D"none"></=
div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">How are folk=
s doing the revised crotch strap situation?<br clear=3D"none"></div><div di=
r=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Thanks, Tony Drews<br c=
lear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"l=
tr">_______________________________________________<br clear=3D"none"></div=
><div dir=3D"ltr"><a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=
=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br clear=3D"none"></=
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        </div></div></div></div><div class=3D"ydp1c2b41fbyqt8855537336" id=
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br clear=3D"none"><a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=
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From: greg powell via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2020 12:52:01 -0800

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My advice would be to purchase belts that meet or exceed the racing =
organization's rules and then install them to follow exactly the =
specifications of the manufacturer.

I bet that one anchor point for 2 sub belts is not per manufacturer spec =
to offer the protection of a 5-point harness only.
Greg in Oakland, CA

> On Dec 9, 2020, at 12:41 PM, Gary Schneider via Fot =
<[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> Tony,
> Gretchen's Mini for 20 years has always had two crotch straps run thru =
the one seat hole, both secured to one central eyebolt in the floor. No =
one's ever questioned it (altho I'll grant you an MC tech is not the =
most persnickety I've ever seen.)
>=20
> I notice MC, SCCA, VSCDA, VARA, VRG, RMVR rules all specify 5 or =
6-point harnesses. SCCA only includes 7-point. Most recommend above 5 =
points but none require it.=20
>=20
> Interestingly, I find no reference in any of the above rules to =
6-point harnesses requiring two individual anti-sub attachment points. =
SCCA specifically allows attaching anti-sub straps to the same two =
attachment points as the lap belts but does not require it. Only lap and =
shoulder belts require individual attachment points. (12-2020 GCR p. 76) =
You might verify with any other organizations you run with.
>=20
>=20
> Cheers,
> Gary Schneider
>=20
> On Wednesday, December 9, 2020, 1:56:57 PM CST, Tony Drews via Fot =
<[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
>=20
> The talk of helmets and suppliers reminded me to ask this question... =20=

> My FIA seat belt 5 years is up, so I need to replace them.  I have a 5=20=

> point harness.  Everything I'm seeing FIA or SFI is now a 6 point=20
> harness with two crotch straps.  Of course I have ONE hole in my seat=20=

> http://www.fot-racing.com <http://www.fot-racing.com/>
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html =
<http://www.team.net/donate.html>
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div><div><span style=3D"font-size: 14px;" class=3D"">My =
advice would be to purchase belts that meet or exceed the racing =
organization's rules and then install them to follow exactly the =
specifications of the manufacturer.</span></div><div><span =
style=3D"font-size: 14px;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size: 14px;" class=3D"">I=
 bet that one anchor point for 2 sub belts is not per manufacturer spec =
to offer the protection of a 5-point harness =
only.</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size: 14px;" class=3D"">Greg =
in Oakland, CA</span></div></div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Dec 9, 2020, at 12:41 PM, Gary Schneider via Fot &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D"ydpe1ed8529yahoo-style-wrap" =
style=3D"font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, =
sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div class=3D""></div>
        <div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false" class=3D"">Tony,</div><div =
dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false" class=3D"">Gretchen's Mini for 20 =
years has always had two crotch straps run thru the one seat hole, both =
secured to one central eyebolt in the floor. No one's ever questioned it =
(altho I'll grant you an MC tech is not the most persnickety I've ever =
seen.)</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false" class=3D"">I =
notice MC, SCCA, VSCDA, VARA, VRG, RMVR rules all specify 5 <u =
class=3D"">or</u> 6-point harnesses. SCCA only includes 7-point. Most =
recommend above 5 points but none require it. <br class=3D""></div><div =
dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false" class=3D"">Interestingly, I find no =
reference in any of the above rules to 6-point harnesses requiring two =
individual anti-sub attachment points. SCCA specifically allows =
attaching anti-sub straps to the same two attachment points as the lap =
belts but does not require it. Only lap and shoulder belts require =
individual attachment points. (12-2020 GCR p. 76) You might verify with =
any other organizations you run with.<br class=3D""><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false" =
class=3D"">Cheers,</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false" =
class=3D"">Gary Schneider<br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div>
       =20
        </div><div id=3D"ydp5f6ac608yahoo_quoted_8252350633" =
class=3D"ydp5f6ac608yahoo_quoted">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, =
Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;" class=3D"">
               =20
                <div class=3D"">
                    On Wednesday, December 9, 2020, 1:56:57 PM CST, Tony =
Drews via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div>
                <div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div>
                <div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">The talk of =
helmets and suppliers reminded me to ask this question...&nbsp; <br =
class=3D""></div><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">My FIA seat belt 5 years is =
up, so I need to replace them.&nbsp; I have a 5 <br class=3D""></div><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">point harness.&nbsp; Everything I'm seeing FIA or =
SFI is now a 6 point <br class=3D""></div><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"">harness with two crotch straps.&nbsp; Of course I have ONE =
hole in my seat <br class=3D""></div><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">and one =
eye bolt for the crotch strap currently.<br class=3D""></div><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"">How are folks doing the revised crotch strap situation?<br =
class=3D""></div><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">Thanks, Tony Drews<br class=3D""></div><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
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