Subject: Re: [Fot] Best head gasket revisited

From: Phil Gott via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 09:34:35 -0400

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Joe:
Looks like I am old school here. Been using the steel shim gasket or the Bas=
tuck equivalent coated with spray on Hylomar with good results. Been trimmin=
g the gaskets to fit the chamber so there is no protrusion. I make sure the l=
iners protrude .005 to .007. No O-rings. Use ARP head studs torqued to the f=
actory specs then Re torqued several times and heat cycles. I don=E2=80=99t e=
xceed the factory specs to avoid cracking the block around the studs at the e=
nds of the block.  We have one head that is staked per Kastner=E2=80=99s rec=
ommendation, and one that is not. Both equally good.
With careful cleaning I can reuse the same steel shim gasket as long as the h=
ead and block are the same as the previous installation. This reduces the pa=
in of trimming a new gasket every time. The protruding liners do a job very s=
imilar to the copper O-rings.
Having said this, I=E2=80=99ll probably lose a head gasket next time out....=

Phil Gott=20

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 25, 2020, at 9:17 AM, Jerry Van Vlack via Fot <[email-masked]> w=
rote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> That=E2=80=99s an excellent point to be considered too.
> JVV
> =20
> From: Mike Harmuth
> Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2020 9:00 AM
> To: Jerry Van Vlack
> Cc: Joe Boruch ; FOT List
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Best head gasket revisited
> =20
> Cometic will do a custom gasket for a minimal one time charge. I've had a S=
pitfire gasket made thick to make up for an over zealous block milling and a=
nother one with a wider piston opening. Once they make the design changes, t=
hey send you a PDF with the dimensions listed for your approval. When it's O=
K, they assign a part number and CNC it out. Design turn around is about a w=
eek and another week to make it. After the first one is made, just call up a=
nd order replacements with your customer number, no extra charges.
> =20
> mike h
> =20
> On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 8:41 AM Jerry Van Vlack via Fot <[email-masked]=
t> wrote:
>> Joe, my experience is only with a hot street engine but worth expressing.=
 87mm pistons and liners, .090 milled from head and Kastner D cam.
>> I ran a stock AE330 for almost 40 years with no issues then I did a valve=
 job and hardened EX seats because of recession in #4 EX valve seat. The sho=
p took another approx. .010 off the head (so now approx. .100 off the head) .=
 I used the Cometic 91mm gasket and it burned through at #4 in 2 years of st=
reet driving. Maybe 15,000 miles.
>> The engine was tired by this time having been rebuilt in the 80=E2=80=99s=
. I rebuilt the engine and decided to use another AE330 with a new head at .=
070 milled. That gasket leaked because of my dumb mistake not re-torqueing a=
fter a few heat cycles. Replaced with another AE330 and now have approx. 10,=
000 miles with no issues. I did re-torque a couple of times.
>> =20
>> Original AE330 copper gaskets are getting hard to find but occasionally s=
how up on EBay, I just bought one. The =E2=80=9Cnew=E2=80=9D repro AE 330 co=
pper gaskets are not the same especially in the valve pocket area, I=E2=80=99=
ve compared them.
>> =20
>> My point in al of this is take a look at how an original AE330 fits to yo=
ur head and block and give it consideration, you might find it acceptable. O=
r continue to use the steel with thin copper wire that you=E2=80=99ve used. I=
 am not a fan of the Cometic but admittedly mine was used on a street engine=
 with no plans to change it every year. Tony=E2=80=99s experience is worthy o=
f attention, he hammers that engine pretty hard.
>> =20
>> JVV
>> =20
>> From: Joe Boruch via Fot
>> Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2020 9:25 PM
>> To: FOT List
>> Subject: [Fot] Best head gasket revisited
>> =20
>> I was not receiving list emails for a while, so I missed the conversation=
 a few months ago.
>> =20
>> For those of you using the composite or even Cometic gaskets, have you do=
ne much relieving around the intake valves?  I have not found any such gaske=
t that would not protrude out into the combustion chamber.  I even bought on=
e from BPNW that was good for up to 92mm bore, but it still protruded.  I ha=
ve been using steel shim head gaskets with copper wire o-rings in the fire r=
ings, but would like a simpler set up.  I have held off on putting my TR3 en=
gine back together for years (while playing with S2000s and Miatas) waiting f=
or a better head gasket.  Joe B
>> _______________________________________________
>> [email-masked]
>>=20
>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>>=20
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jerryvv@roa=
drunner.com
>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> [email-masked]
>>=20
>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>>=20
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/ofracer@gma=
il.com
>>=20
>>=20
> _______________________________________________
> [email-masked]
>=20
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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.com
>=20
>=20

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Joe:<div>Looks like I am old school here. B=
een using the steel shim gasket or the Bastuck equivalent coated with spray o=
n Hylomar with good results. Been trimming the gaskets to fit the chamber so=
 there is no protrusion. I make sure the liners protrude .005 to .007. No O-=
rings. Use ARP head studs torqued to the factory specs then Re torqued sever=
al times and heat cycles. I don=E2=80=99t exceed the factory specs to avoid c=
racking the block around the studs at the ends of the block. &nbsp;We have o=
ne head that is staked per Kastner=E2=80=99s recommendation, and one that is=
 not. Both equally good.</div><div>With careful cleaning I can reuse the sam=
e steel shim gasket as long as the head and block are the same as the previo=
us installation. This reduces the pain of trimming a new gasket every time. T=
he protruding liners do a job very similar to the copper O-rings.</div><div>=
Having said this, I=E2=80=99ll probably lose a head gasket next time out....=
</div><div>Phil Gott&nbsp;<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div>=
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Oct 25, 2020, at 9:17 AM, J=
erry Van Vlack via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote=
></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF

<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000">
<div>That=E2=80=99s an excellent point to be considered too.</div>
<div>JVV</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Ca=
libri&quot;; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLA=
Y: inline">
<div style=3D"FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<div style=3D"font-color: black"><b>From:</b> <a title=3D"[email-masked]"=
>Mike=20
Harmuth</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, October 25, 2020 9:00 AM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title=3D"[email-masked]">Jerry Van Vlack</a> </di=
v>
<div><b>Cc:</b> <a title=3D"[email-masked]">Joe Boruch</a> ; <a title=3D=
"[email-masked]">FOT List</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] Best head gasket revisited</div></div></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div></div>
<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Ca=
libri&quot;; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLA=
Y: inline">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Cometic will do a custom gasket for a minimal one time char=
ge. I've=20
had a Spitfire gasket made thick to make up for an over zealous block millin=
g=20
and another one with a wider piston opening. Once they make the design chang=
es,=20
they send you a PDF with the dimensions listed for your approval. When it's O=
K,=20
they assign a part number and CNC it out. Design turn around is about a week=
 and=20
another week to make it. After the first one is made, just call up and order=
=20
replacements with your customer number, no extra charges.=20
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>mike h</div></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 8:41 AM Jerry V=
an Vlack=20
via Fot &lt;<a>[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; BORDER-LEFT: r=
gb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex">
  <div dir=3D"ltr">
  <div dir=3D"ltr">
  <div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)">
  <div>Joe, my experience is only with a hot street engine but worth express=
ing.=20
  87mm pistons and liners, .090 milled from head and Kastner D cam.</div>
  <div>I ran a stock AE330 for almost 40 years with no issues then I did a v=
alve=20
  job and hardened EX seats because of recession in #4 EX valve seat. The sh=
op=20
  took another approx. .010 off the head (so now approx. .100 off the head) .=
 I=20
  used the Cometic 91mm gasket and it burned through at #4 in 2 years of str=
eet=20
  driving. Maybe 15,000 miles.</div>
  <div>The engine was tired by this time having been rebuilt in the 80=E2=80=
=99s. I=20
  rebuilt the engine and decided to use another AE330 with a new head at .07=
0=20
  milled. That gasket leaked because of my dumb mistake not re-torqueing aft=
er a=20
  few heat cycles. Replaced with another AE330 and now have approx. 10,000 m=
iles=20
  with no issues. I did re-torque a couple of times.</div>
  <div>&nbsp;</div>
  <div>Original AE330 copper gaskets are getting hard to find but occasional=
ly=20
  show up on EBay, I just bought one. The =E2=80=9Cnew=E2=80=9D repro AE 330=
 copper gaskets are=20
  not the same especially in the valve pocket area, I=E2=80=99ve compared th=
em.</div>
  <div>&nbsp;</div>
  <div>My point in al of this is take a look at how an original AE330 fits t=
o=20
  your head and block and give it consideration, you might find it acceptabl=
e.=20
  Or continue to use the steel with thin copper wire that you=E2=80=99ve use=
d. I am not=20
  a fan of the Cometic but admittedly mine was used on a street engine with n=
o=20
  plans to change it every year. Tony=E2=80=99s experience is worthy of atte=
ntion, he=20
  hammers that engine pretty hard.</div>
  <div>&nbsp;</div>
  <div>JVV</div>
  <div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: calibr=
i; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inli=
ne">
  <div style=3D"FONT: 10pt tahoma">
  <div>&nbsp;</div>
  <div style=3D"BACKGROUND: rgb(245,245,245)">
  <div><b>From:</b> <a title=3D"[email-masked]">Joe Boruch via Fot</a> <=
/div>
  <div><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, October 24, 2020 9:25 PM</div>
  <div><b>To:</b> <a title=3D"[email-masked]">FOT List</a> </div>
  <div><b>Subject:</b> [Fot] Best head gasket revisited</div></div></div>
  <div>&nbsp;</div></div>
  <div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: calibr=
i; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inli=
ne">
  <div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;helvetica neue&quot;,hel=
vetica,arial,sans-serif">
  <div dir=3D"ltr">I was not receiving list emails for a while, so I missed t=
he=20
  conversation a few months ago. </div>
  <div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp;</div>
  <div dir=3D"ltr">For those of you using the composite or even Cometic gask=
ets,=20
  have you done much relieving around the intake valves?&nbsp; I have not fo=
und=20
  any such gasket that would not protrude out into the combustion chamber.&n=
bsp;=20
  I even bought one from BPNW that was good for up to 92mm bore, but it stil=
l=20
  protruded.&nbsp; I have been using steel shim head gaskets with copper wir=
e=20
  o-rings in the fire rings, but would like a simpler set up.&nbsp; I have h=
eld=20
  off on putting my TR3 engine back together for years (while playing with=20=

  S2000s and Miatas) waiting for a better head gasket.&nbsp; Joe B</div></di=
v>
  <hr>
  _______________________________________________<br><a target=3D"_blank">fo=
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