Subject: [Fot] Triumph 4 speed O/D's and Layshaft bearing failures.

From: Glenn Franco via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 15:50:23 -0400

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Just finished another A Type Overdrive rebuild this afternoon. Next one I
do I'm going to insist that the owner bring a spare 4 speed for parts or
maybe 2.
I very rarely find an overdrive transmission that the layshaft bearing next
to 1st that hasn't walked and tried to escape the case through the thrust
bearing. I have tried in vane to remove the laygear with one that ground
its way into the thrust bearing and sometimes the case. I sometimes get the
laygear out but in most cases the trans case with the laygear is sent to
scrap.
Does anyone have a solution, trick, special tool, to ease the laygear out.
The normal way is to remove the small thust bearing with a magnet so you
can tilt the laygear enough to get it out. I have even once resorted to a "
Slugger Slide Hammer" and chain wrapped around the laygear to get it out.
Didn't end well however.
I did read somewhere that someone is using a tapered roller bearing on that
end which would make more sense than the original design.
Please advise
Thanks in advance
Glenn
TR6, TR250, Miata, 47 MG TC For Sale, 73 BMW E10 2002 being restored

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Just finished another A Type Overdrive rebuild this a=
fternoon. Next one I do I&#39;m going to insist that the owner bring a spar=
e 4 speed for parts or maybe 2.</div><div>I very rarely find an overdrive t=
ransmission that the layshaft bearing next to 1st that hasn&#39;t walked an=
d tried to escape the case through the thrust bearing. I have tried in vane=
 to remove the laygear=C2=A0with one that ground its way into the thrust be=
aring and sometimes the case. I sometimes get the laygear out but in most c=
ases the trans case with the laygear is sent to scrap.</div><div>Does anyon=
e have a solution, trick, special tool, to ease the laygear out. The normal=
 way is to remove the small thust bearing with a magnet so you can tilt the=
 laygear enough to get it out. I have even once resorted to=C2=A0a &quot; S=
lugger Slide Hammer&quot; and chain wrapped around the laygear to get it ou=
t. Didn&#39;t end well however.</div><div>I did read somewhere that someone=
 is using a tapered roller bearing on that end which would make more sense =
than the original design.</div><div>Please advise</div><div>Thanks in advan=
ce</div><div>Glenn</div><div>TR6, TR250, Miata, 47 MG TC For Sale, 73 BMW E=
10 2002 being restored</div></div>

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_______________________________________________
[email-masked]

http://www.fot-racing.com

Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot

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From: fubog1 via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 14:07:17 +0000 (UTC)

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 Jack the late laygears use a pressed-in "shell" bearing.They can be fitted=
 to the early circlip gears and aren't an issue but the pressed-only have a=
 tendency to walk out and lathe (used as a verb) into the thrust washer so =
it can't be removed, so nor can the gear.
The wear issue is exacerbated by all of the metal crumbs generated above th=
e area by 1st/reverse gear graunching.
Glen
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Wheeler via Fot <[email-masked]>
To: Glenn Franco <[email-masked]>
Cc: Triumph 'Friends of Triumph <[email-masked]>
Sent: Sun, Aug 11, 2019 8:47 am
Subject: Re: [Fot] Triumph 4 speed O/D's and Layshaft bearing failures.

 I have rebuilt many TR-3B through TR-6 gear boxes, both with and without o=
verdrive.=C2=A0 The failure mode you mention is common, where the lay gear =
grinds into the rear thrust washer, and sometimes into the housing.=C2=A0 H=
owever, I have never had trouble removing the lay gear.=C2=A0 Once I remove=
 the thrust washer, the lay gear lifts right out.=C2=A0 Am I missing someth=
ing?=C2=A0 Are you working on a Spitfire or GT-6 gearbox?
Once again, I pull the rear thrust washer out, generally with the transmiss=
ion oriented with the bell housing down.=C2=A0 Then, with the gearbox orien=
ted in the upright position, I lift up the end of the lay gear where I have=
 just removed the thrust washer.=C2=A0 Once it clears the boss at the rear =
of the housing, the lay gear comes right out.
Not sure this is any help, but that's my experience.
Jack Wheeler

    On Saturday, August 10, 2019, 3:52:18 PM EDT, Glenn Franco via Fot <fot=
@autox.team.net> wrote: =20
=20
 Just finished another A Type Overdrive rebuild this afternoon. Next one I =
do I'm going to insist that the owner bring a spare 4 speed for parts or ma=
ybe 2.I very rarely find an overdrive transmission that the layshaft bearin=
g next to 1st that hasn't walked and tried to escape the case through the t=
hrust bearing. I have tried in vane to remove the laygear=C2=A0with one tha=
t ground its way into the thrust bearing and sometimes the case. I sometime=
s get the laygear out but in most cases the trans case with the laygear is =
sent to scrap.Does anyone have a solution, trick, special tool, to ease the=
 laygear out. The normal way is to remove the small thust bearing with a ma=
gnet so you can tilt the laygear enough to get it out. I have even once res=
orted to=C2=A0a " Slugger Slide Hammer" and chain wrapped around the laygea=
r to get it out. Didn't end well however.I did read somewhere that someone =
is using a tapered roller bearing on that end which would make more sense t=
han the original design.Please adviseThanks in advanceGlennTR6, TR250, Miat=
a, 47 MG TC For Sale, 73 BMW E10 2002 being restored_______________________=
________________________
[email-masked]

yahoo.com

m

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<div style=3D"color:black;font: 10pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div> <font size=3D"2">Jack the late laygears use a pressed-in "shell" bear=
ing.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2">They can be fitted to the early circlip gears and are=
n't an issue but the pressed-only have a tendency to walk out and lathe (us=
ed as a verb) into the thrust washer so it can't be removed, so nor can the=
 gear.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2">The wear issue is exacerbated by all of the metal cru=
mbs generated above the area by 1st/reverse gear graunching.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2">Glen</font><br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br>
From: Jack Wheeler via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
To: Glenn Franco &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Cc: Triumph 'Friends of Triumph &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Sent: Sun, Aug 11, 2019 8:47 am<br>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Triumph 4 speed O/D's and Layshaft bearing failures.<br>
<br>

<div id=3D"yiv5768499517">
<div>
<div class=3D"yiv5768499517ydp714e40ayahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family=
:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;">
<div></div>

       =20
<div dir=3D"ltr">I have rebuilt many TR-3B through TR-6 gear boxes, both wi=
th and without overdrive.&nbsp; The failure mode you mention is common, whe=
re the lay gear grinds into the rear thrust washer, and sometimes into the =
housing.&nbsp; However, I have never had trouble removing the lay gear.&nbs=
p; Once I remove the thrust washer, the lay gear lifts right out.&nbsp; Am =
I missing something?&nbsp; Are you working on a Spitfire or GT-6 gearbox?</=
div>

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div dir=3D"ltr">Once again, I pull the rear thrust washer out, generally w=
ith the transmission oriented with the bell housing down.&nbsp; Then, with =
the gearbox oriented in the upright position, I lift up the end of the lay =
gear where I have just removed the thrust washer.&nbsp; Once it clears the =
boss at the rear of the housing, the lay gear comes right out.</div>

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div dir=3D"ltr">Not sure this is any help, but that's my experience.</div>

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div dir=3D"ltr">Jack Wheeler<br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>

       =20
        </div>

<div class=3D"yiv5768499517ydp4665f6fbyahoo_quoted" id=3D"yiv5768499517ydp4=
665f6fbyahoo_quoted_5928348454">
           =20
<div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
               =20
<div class=3D"yiv5768499517yqt0211589459" id=3D"yiv5768499517yqt11073">
<div>
                    On Saturday, August 10, 2019, 3:52:18 PM EDT, Glenn Fra=
nco via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>

               =20
<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>

               =20
<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>

               =20
<div>
<div id=3D"yiv5768499517ydp4665f6fbyiv5718343864">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>Just finished another A Type Overdrive rebuild this afternoon. Next on=
e I do I'm going to insist that the owner bring a spare 4 speed for parts o=
r maybe 2.</div>

<div>I very rarely find an overdrive transmission that the layshaft bearing=
 next to 1st that hasn't walked and tried to escape the case through the th=
rust bearing. I have tried in vane to remove the laygear&nbsp;with one that=
 ground its way into the thrust bearing and sometimes the case. I sometimes=
 get the laygear out but in most cases the trans case with the laygear is s=
ent to scrap.</div>

<div>Does anyone have a solution, trick, special tool, to ease the laygear =
out. The normal way is to remove the small thust bearing with a magnet so y=
ou can tilt the laygear enough to get it out. I have even once resorted to&=
nbsp;a " Slugger Slide Hammer" and chain wrapped around the laygear to get =
it out. Didn't end well however.</div>

<div>I did read somewhere that someone is using a tapered roller bearing on=
 that end which would make more sense than the original design.</div>

<div>Please advise</div>

<div>Thanks in advance</div>

<div>Glenn</div>

<div>TR6, TR250, Miata, 47 MG TC For Sale, 73 BMW E10 2002 being restored</=
div>
</div>
</div>
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