Subject: Re: [Fot] Triumph 4 speed O/D's and Layshaft bearing failures.

From: John Styduhar via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 18:41:11 -0400

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--0000000000009e2684058fcafd11

Glenn, are you saying that the layshaft bearing failure you described is
more prevalent when the tranny has an O/D or is it a general problem?
Thanks

On Sat, Aug 10, 2019 at 3:52 PM Glenn Franco via Fot <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> Just finished another A Type Overdrive rebuild this afternoon. Next one I
> do I'm going to insist that the owner bring a spare 4 speed for parts or
> maybe 2.
> I very rarely find an overdrive transmission that the layshaft bearing
> next to 1st that hasn't walked and tried to escape the case through the
> thrust bearing. I have tried in vane to remove the laygear with one that
> ground its way into the thrust bearing and sometimes the case. I sometimes
> get the laygear out but in most cases the trans case with the laygear is
> sent to scrap.
> Does anyone have a solution, trick, special tool, to ease the laygear out.
> The normal way is to remove the small thust bearing with a magnet so you
> can tilt the laygear enough to get it out. I have even once resorted to a "
> Slugger Slide Hammer" and chain wrapped around the laygear to get it out.
> Didn't end well however.
> I did read somewhere that someone is using a tapered roller bearing on
> that end which would make more sense than the original design.
> Please advise
> Thanks in advance
> Glenn
> TR6, TR250, Miata, 47 MG TC For Sale, 73 BMW E10 2002 being restored
> _______________________________________________
> [email-masked]
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Gle=
nn, are you saying that the layshaft bearing failure you described is more =
prevalent when the tranny has an O/D or is it a general problem?=C2=A0 Than=
ks</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div></=
div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On=
 Sat, Aug 10, 2019 at 3:52 PM Glenn Franco via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fo=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid=
 rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Just finished ano=
ther A Type Overdrive rebuild this afternoon. Next one I do I&#39;m going t=
o insist that the owner bring a spare 4 speed for parts or maybe 2.</div><d=
iv>I very rarely find an overdrive transmission that the layshaft bearing n=
ext to 1st that hasn&#39;t walked and tried to escape the case through the =
thrust bearing. I have tried in vane to remove the laygear=C2=A0with one th=
at ground its way into the thrust bearing and sometimes the case. I sometim=
es get the laygear out but in most cases the trans case with the laygear is=
 sent to scrap.</div><div>Does anyone have a solution, trick, special tool,=
 to ease the laygear out. The normal way is to remove the small thust beari=
ng with a magnet so you can tilt the laygear enough to get it out. I have e=
ven once resorted to=C2=A0a &quot; Slugger Slide Hammer&quot; and chain wra=
pped around the laygear to get it out. Didn&#39;t end well however.</div><d=
iv>I did read somewhere that someone is using a tapered roller bearing on t=
hat end which would make more sense than the original design.</div><div>Ple=
ase advise</div><div>Thanks in advance</div><div>Glenn</div><div>TR6, TR250=
, Miata, 47 MG TC For Sale, 73 BMW E10 2002 being restored</div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]<=
/a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">=
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</blockquote></div>

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From: fubog1 via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 12:14:39 +0000 (UTC)

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 That problem isn't unique to the O/D boxes.
Glen with 1 "n".
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: John Styduhar via Fot <[email-masked]>
To: Glenn Franco <[email-masked]>
Cc: FOT list <[email-masked]>
Sent: Sat, Aug 10, 2019 6:41 pm
Subject: Re: [Fot] Triumph 4 speed O/D's and Layshaft bearing failures.

Glenn, are you saying that the layshaft bearing failure you described is mo=
re prevalent when the tranny has an O/D or is it a general problem?=C2=A0 T=
hanks

On Sat, Aug 10, 2019 at 3:52 PM Glenn Franco via Fot <[email-masked]> w=
rote:

Just finished another A Type Overdrive rebuild this afternoon. Next one I d=
o I'm going to insist that the owner bring a spare 4 speed for parts or may=
be 2.I very rarely find an overdrive transmission that the layshaft bearing=
 next to 1st that hasn't walked and tried to escape the case through the th=
rust bearing. I have tried in vane to remove the laygear=C2=A0with one that=
 ground its way into the thrust bearing and sometimes the case. I sometimes=
 get the laygear out but in most cases the trans case with the laygear is s=
ent to scrap.Does anyone have a solution, trick, special tool, to ease the =
laygear out. The normal way is to remove the small thust bearing with a mag=
net so you can tilt the laygear enough to get it out. I have even once reso=
rted to=C2=A0a " Slugger Slide Hammer" and chain wrapped around the laygear=
 to get it out. Didn't end well however.I did read somewhere that someone i=
s using a tapered roller bearing on that end which would make more sense th=
an the original design.Please adviseThanks in advanceGlennTR6, TR250, Miata=
, 47 MG TC For Sale, 73 BMW E10 2002 being restored________________________=
_______________________
[email-masked]

il.com

m

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<div style=3D"color:black;font: 10pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div> <font size=3D"2">That problem isn't unique to the O/D boxes.</font></=
div>

<div><font size=3D"2"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2">Glen with 1 "n".</font></div>

<div><br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br>
From: John Styduhar via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
To: Glenn Franco &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Cc: FOT list &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Sent: Sat, Aug 10, 2019 6:41 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Triumph 4 speed O/D's and Layshaft bearing failures.<br>
<br>

<div id=3D"yiv5940175818">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"yiv5940175818gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small;">Glenn,=
 are you saying that the layshaft bearing failure you described is more pre=
valent when the tranny has an O/D or is it a general problem?&nbsp; Thanks<=
/div>

<div class=3D"yiv5940175818gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small;"><br cl=
ear=3D"none"></div>
</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div class=3D"yiv5940175818gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"yiv5940175818yqt2634990127" id=3D"yiv5940175818yqt95968">
<div class=3D"yiv5940175818gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Sat, Aug 10, 2019 at =
3:52 PM Glenn Franco via Fot &lt;<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"re=
ct" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none"></d=
iv>
<blockquote class=3D"yiv5940175818gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>Just finished another A Type Overdrive rebuild this afternoon. Next on=
e I do I'm going to insist that the owner bring a spare 4 speed for parts o=
r maybe 2.</div>

<div>I very rarely find an overdrive transmission that the layshaft bearing=
 next to 1st that hasn't walked and tried to escape the case through the th=
rust bearing. I have tried in vane to remove the laygear&nbsp;with one that=
 ground its way into the thrust bearing and sometimes the case. I sometimes=
 get the laygear out but in most cases the trans case with the laygear is s=
ent to scrap.</div>

<div>Does anyone have a solution, trick, special tool, to ease the laygear =
out. The normal way is to remove the small thust bearing with a magnet so y=
ou can tilt the laygear enough to get it out. I have even once resorted to&=
nbsp;a " Slugger Slide Hammer" and chain wrapped around the laygear to get =
it out. Didn't end well however.</div>

<div>I did read somewhere that someone is using a tapered roller bearing on=
 that end which would make more sense than the original design.</div>

<div>Please advise</div>

<div>Thanks in advance</div>

<div>Glenn</div>

<div>TR6, TR250, Miata, 47 MG TC For Sale, 73 BMW E10 2002 being restored</=
div>
</div>

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<div class=3D"yqt2634990127" id=3D"yqt13738">______________________________=
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From: Glenn Franco via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 08:43:05 -0400

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--000000000000890344058fd6c00a

Just to clarify, the problem is on both 4 speed and 4 speed O/D
transmissions.
Every failure I encounter is with the caged needle bearings not the loose
needle bearings in the very early transmissions. The last few years I have
been rebuilding many TR3 and TR4 Transmissions.
The bearing shell (that holds the needles in place) works/walks along the
shaft and forces itself into the small thrust washer that is near the
smaller 1st gear. The shell will then fracture into pieces and the
remaining will dig into the thrust washer and then the case if not removed
soon enough.
The caged bearing shells are available through Moss but the problem is
getting that laygear out of the transmission case. As I stated earlier, to
remove the laygear ( after the shaft is removed ) the small thrust washer
needs to be removed so the laygear can tilt and worked out of the case.
When the bearing shell machines its way into the thrust washer its almost
impossible to get it out. Then you have a scrap case on your hands.
Glenn with 2 n's

On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 8:14 AM fubog1 <[email-masked]> wrote:

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Just to clarify, the problem is on both 4 speed and 4=
 speed O/D transmissions.</div><div>Every failure I encounter is with the c=
aged needle bearings not the loose needle bearings in the very early transm=
issions. The last few years I have been rebuilding many TR3 and TR4 Transmi=
ssions. </div><div>The bearing shell (that holds the needles in place) work=
s/walks along the shaft and forces itself into the small thrust washer that=
 is near the smaller 1st gear. The shell will then fracture into pieces and=
 the remaining will dig into the thrust washer and then the case if not rem=
oved soon enough.</div><div>The caged bearing shells are available through =
Moss but the problem is getting that laygear out of the transmission case. =
As I stated earlier, to remove the laygear ( after the shaft is removed ) t=
he small thrust washer needs to be removed so the laygear can tilt and work=
ed out of the case. </div><div>When the bearing shell machines its way into=
 the thrust washer its almost impossible to get it out. Then you have a scr=
ap case on your hands.</div><div>Glenn with 2 n&#39;s<br></div></div><br><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Sun, Aug =
11, 2019 at 8:14 AM fubog1 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">fubog1@aol=
.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);b=
order-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">
<div style=3D"font:10pt/normal Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;color:black;font-=
size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal">
<div> <font size=3D"2">That problem isn&#39;t unique to the O/D boxes.</fon=
t></div>

<div><font size=3D"2">Glen with 1 &quot;n&quot;.</font></div>

<div><br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"color:black;font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt">-----=
Original Message-----<br>
From: John Styduhar via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" targe=
t=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
To: Glenn Franco &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_bla=
nk">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: FOT list &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">fo=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
Sent: Sat, Aug 10, 2019 6:41 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Triumph 4 speed O/D&#39;s and Layshaft bearing failures.=
<br>
<br>

<div id=3D"gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-size:small">Glenn, are you saying that the layshaft bearing failur=
e you described is more prevalent when the tranny has an O/D or is it a gen=
eral problem?=C2=A0 Thanks</div>

<div class=3D"gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-size:small"><br clear=3D"none"></div>
</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818yqt2634990127" id=3D"=
gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818yqt95968">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818gmail_attr" dir=3D"lt=
r">On Sat, Aug 10, 2019 at 3:52 PM Glenn Franco via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=
=3D"rect">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none"></div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204=
,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>Just finished another A Type Overdrive rebuild this afternoon. Next on=
e I do I&#39;m going to insist that the owner bring a spare 4 speed for par=
ts or maybe 2.</div>

<div>I very rarely find an overdrive transmission that the layshaft bearing=
 next to 1st that hasn&#39;t walked and tried to escape the case through th=
e thrust bearing. I have tried in vane to remove the laygear=C2=A0with one =
that ground its way into the thrust bearing and sometimes the case. I somet=
imes get the laygear out but in most cases the trans case with the laygear =
is sent to scrap.</div>

<div>Does anyone have a solution, trick, special tool, to ease the laygear =
out. The normal way is to remove the small thust bearing with a magnet so y=
ou can tilt the laygear enough to get it out. I have even once resorted to=
=C2=A0a &quot; Slugger Slide Hammer&quot; and chain wrapped around the layg=
ear to get it out. Didn&#39;t end well however.</div>

<div>Please advise</div>

<div>Glenn</div>

_______________________________________________<br clear=3D"none">
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From: Jack Wheeler via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 12:47:24 +0000 (UTC)

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 I have rebuilt many TR-3B through TR-6 gear boxes, both with and without o=
verdrive.=C2=A0 The failure mode you mention is common, where the lay gear =
grinds into the rear thrust washer, and sometimes into the housing.=C2=A0 H=
owever, I have never had trouble removing the lay gear.=C2=A0 Once I remove=
 the thrust washer, the lay gear lifts right out.=C2=A0 Am I missing someth=
ing?=C2=A0 Are you working on a Spitfire or GT-6 gearbox?
Once again, I pull the rear thrust washer out, generally with the transmiss=
ion oriented with the bell housing down.=C2=A0 Then, with the gearbox orien=
ted in the upright position, I lift up the end of the lay gear where I have=
 just removed the thrust washer.=C2=A0 Once it clears the boss at the rear =
of the housing, the lay gear comes right out.
Not sure this is any help, but that's my experience.
Jack Wheeler

    On Saturday, August 10, 2019, 3:52:18 PM EDT, Glenn Franco via Fot <fot=
@autox.team.net> wrote: =20
=20
 Just finished another A Type Overdrive rebuild this afternoon. Next one I =
do I'm going to insist that the owner bring a spare 4 speed for parts or ma=
ybe 2.I very rarely find an overdrive transmission that the layshaft bearin=
g next to 1st that hasn't walked and tried to escape the case through the t=
hrust bearing. I have tried in vane to remove the laygear=C2=A0with one tha=
t ground its way into the thrust bearing and sometimes the case. I sometime=
s get the laygear out but in most cases the trans case with the laygear is =
sent to scrap.Does anyone have a solution, trick, special tool, to ease the=
 laygear out. The normal way is to remove the small thust bearing with a ma=
gnet so you can tilt the laygear enough to get it out. I have even once res=
orted to=C2=A0a " Slugger Slide Hammer" and chain wrapped around the laygea=
r to get it out. Didn't end well however.I did read somewhere that someone =
is using a tapered roller bearing on that end which would make more sense t=
han the original design.Please adviseThanks in advanceGlennTR6, TR250, Miat=
a, 47 MG TC For Sale, 73 BMW E10 2002 being restored_______________________=
________________________
[email-masked]

yahoo.com

 =20
------=_Part_4048653_323603286.1565527644238
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"ydp714e40ayahoo-style-wrap" style=3D=
"font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;">=
<div></div>
        <div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">I have rebuilt many TR-3B th=
rough TR-6 gear boxes, both with and without overdrive.&nbsp; The failure m=
ode you mention is common, where the lay gear grinds into the rear thrust w=
asher, and sometimes into the housing.&nbsp; However, I have never had trou=
ble removing the lay gear.&nbsp; Once I remove the thrust washer, the lay g=
ear lifts right out.&nbsp; Am I missing something?&nbsp; Are you working on=
 a Spitfire or GT-6 gearbox?</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><b=
r></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Once again, I pull the rear =
thrust washer out, generally with the transmission oriented with the bell h=
ousing down.&nbsp; Then, with the gearbox oriented in the upright position,=
 I lift up the end of the lay gear where I have just removed the thrust was=
her.&nbsp; Once it clears the boss at the rear of the housing, the lay gear=
 comes right out.</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><di=
v dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Not sure this is any help, but that's m=
y experience.</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div di=
r=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Jack Wheeler<br></div><div><br></div>
       =20
        </div><div id=3D"ydp4665f6fbyahoo_quoted_5928348454" class=3D"ydp46=
65f6fbyahoo_quoted">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
                <div>
                    On Saturday, August 10, 2019, 3:52:18 PM EDT, Glenn Fra=
nco via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><div id=3D"ydp4665f6fbyiv5718343864"><div dir=3D"ltr">=
<div>Just finished another A Type Overdrive rebuild this afternoon. Next on=
e I do I'm going to insist that the owner bring a spare 4 speed for parts o=
r maybe 2.</div><div>I very rarely find an overdrive transmission that the =
layshaft bearing next to 1st that hasn't walked and tried to escape the cas=
e through the thrust bearing. I have tried in vane to remove the laygear&nb=
sp;with one that ground its way into the thrust bearing and sometimes the c=
ase. I sometimes get the laygear out but in most cases the trans case with =
the laygear is sent to scrap.</div><div>Does anyone have a solution, trick,=
 special tool, to ease the laygear out. The normal way is to remove the sma=
ll thust bearing with a magnet so you can tilt the laygear enough to get it=
 out. I have even once resorted to&nbsp;a " Slugger Slide Hammer" and chain=
 wrapped around the laygear to get it out. Didn't end well however.</div><d=
iv>I did read somewhere that someone is using a tapered roller bearing on t=
hat end which would make more sense than the original design.</div><div>Ple=
ase advise</div><div>Thanks in advance</div><div>Glenn</div><div>TR6, TR250=
, Miata, 47 MG TC For Sale, 73 BMW E10 2002 being restored</div></div></div=
>_______________________________________________<br><a href=3D"mailto:fot@a=
utox.team.net" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br=
><br><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blan=
k">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.=
net/donate.html" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/don=
ate.html</a><br>Archive: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive " rel=3D"=
nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive </a><a href=3D"ht=
tp://www.team.net/pipermail/fot" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://=
www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a><br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://aut=
ox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jwheeler1947@yaho=
o.com</a><br><br><br></div>
            </div>
        </div></body></html>
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--===============8871067976853273556==--

---

From: Glenn Franco via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 12:24:38 -0400

--===============1624457076881323722==

--000000000000dbd4fd058fd9d848

Yes exactly right.
By writing this post, I was actually hoping that someone had come up with a
good method or tool to get that bugger out of the case.
So far I have not.
Its hard enough to get the left over shell of that bearing out of the
laygear when you can get the thrust washer out. I have had to resort to
grinding a slot in the bearing shell to remove it.
I would appreciate it if someone has a procedure for installing a tapered
roller bearing. I would be interested in giving it a try.
Glenn

On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 9:55 AM fubog1 <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Yes Glenn that's exactly what happens.
> It's not an issue with the circlip gears converted to the shell bearings
> obviously but too common with the pressed only.
> I put a little loctite on them, they're usually a bitch to remove anyway.
> In addition to the high load on the rear of the laygear & bearing, it's
> exacerbated by all of the little bits of metal generated directly above by
> the graunching going into 1st & reverse, that stuff gets behind the thrust
> washer and eats up the backside of the washer & the case.
> I share your pain...
> Glen
>
>
>
> From: Glenn Franco <[email-masked]>
> To: fubog1 <[email-masked]>
> Cc: John Styduhar <[email-masked]>; FOT list <[email-masked]>
> Sent: Sun, Aug 11, 2019 8:43 am

--000000000000dbd4fd058fd9d848
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Yes exactly right.</div><div>By writing this post, I =
was actually hoping that someone had come up with a good method or tool to =
get that bugger out of the case.</div><div>So far I have not. </div><div>It=
s hard enough to get the left over shell of that bearing out of the laygear=
 when you can get the thrust washer out. I have had to resort to grinding a=
 slot in the bearing shell to remove it.</div><div>I would appreciate it if=
 someone has a procedure for installing a tapered roller bearing.=C2=A0I wo=
uld be interested in giving it a try.</div><div>Glenn =C2=A0<br></div></div=
><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Su=
n, Aug 11, 2019 at 9:55 AM fubog1 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">fub=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204=
,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">
<div style=3D"font:10pt/normal Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;color:black;font-=
size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal">
<div> <font size=3D"2">Yes Glenn that&#39;s exactly what happens.</font></d=
iv>

<div><font size=3D"2">It&#39;s not an issue with the circlip gears converte=
d to the shell bearings obviously but too common with the pressed only.</fo=
nt></div>

<div><font size=3D"2">I put a little loctite on them, they&#39;re usually a=
 bitch to remove anyway.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2">In addition to the high load on the rear of the layge=
ar &amp; bearing, it&#39;s exacerbated by all of the little bits of metal g=
enerated directly above by the graunching going into 1st &amp; reverse, tha=
t stuff gets behind the thrust washer and eats up the backside of the washe=
r &amp; the case.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2">I share your pain...</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2">Glen<br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2"><br>
</font></div><font size=3D"2">

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"color:black;font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt">-----=
Original Message-----<br>
From: Glenn Franco &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_b=
lank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
To: fubog1 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">fubog1@a=
ol.com</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: John Styduhar &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_bla=
nk">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; FOT list &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
eam.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
Sent: Sun, Aug 11, 2019 8:43 am<br>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Triumph 4 speed O/D&#39;s and Layshaft bearing failures.=
<br>
<br>

<div id=3D"gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>Just to clarify, the problem is on both 4 speed and 4 speed O/D transm=
issions.</div>

<div>Every failure I encounter is with the caged needle bearings not the lo=
ose needle bearings in the very early transmissions. The last few years I h=
ave been rebuilding many TR3 and TR4 Transmissions. </div>

<div>The bearing shell (that holds the needles in place) works/walks along =
the shaft and forces itself into the small thrust washer that is near the s=
maller 1st gear. The shell will then fracture into pieces and the remaining=
 will dig into the thrust washer and then the case if not removed soon enou=
gh.</div>

<div>The caged bearing shells are available through Moss but the problem is=
 getting that laygear out of the transmission case. As I stated earlier, to=
 remove the laygear ( after the shaft is removed ) the small thrust washer =
needs to be removed so the laygear can tilt and worked out of the case. </d=
iv>

<div>When the bearing shell machines its way into the thrust washer its alm=
ost impossible to get it out. Then you have a scrap case on your hands.</di=
v>

<div>Glenn with 2 n&#39;s<br clear=3D"none"></div>
</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041yqt3486745670" id=3D"=
gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041yqt55485">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail_attr" dir=3D"lt=
r">On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 8:14 AM fubog1 &lt;<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer=
" shape=3D"rect">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none"></div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204=
,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">

<div><font size=3D"2"><br clear=3D"none">
</font></div>

<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div> <br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div> <br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div style=3D"color:black;font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt">-----=
Original Message-----<br clear=3D"none">
From: John Styduhar via Fot &lt;<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rec=
t">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
To: Glenn Franco &lt;<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">brakey66=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
Cc: FOT list &lt;<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">[email-masked]=
am.net</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
Sent: Sat, Aug 10, 2019 6:41 pm<br clear=3D"none">
Subject: Re: [Fot] Triumph 4 speed O/D&#39;s and Layshaft bearing failures.=
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">

<div id=3D"gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_5102154560421217=
780yiv5940175818">

<div>

<div dir=3D"ltr">

<div class=3D"gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_5102154560421=
217780yiv5940175818gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Glenn, are you =
saying that the layshaft bearing failure you described is more prevalent wh=
en the tranny has an O/D or is it a general problem?=C2=A0 Thanks</div>

<div class=3D"gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_5102154560421=
217780yiv5940175818gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br clear=3D"no=
ne"></div>

</div>

<br clear=3D"none">

<div class=3D"gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_5102154560421=
217780yiv5940175818gmail_quote">

<div class=3D"gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_5102154560421=
217780yiv5940175818yqt2634990127" id=3D"gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv74423=
28041gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818yqt95968">

<div class=3D"gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_5102154560421=
217780yiv5940175818gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Sat, Aug 10, 2019 at 3:52 PM =
Glenn Franco via Fot &lt;<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">fot@=
autox.team.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none"></div>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_510215=
4560421217780yiv5940175818gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;pa=
dding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;bor=
der-left-style:solid">

<div dir=3D"ltr">

<div>Please advise</div>

<div>Glenn</div>

</div>

_______________________________________________<br clear=3D"none">
<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">[email-masked]</a><br cle=
ar=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">http://www.fot-racing.com</a>=
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
onate.html</a><br clear=3D"none">
Archive: <a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">http://autox.team.ne=
t/archive</a> <a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">http://www.team=
.net/pipermail/fot<br clear=3D"none">
//autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a><br clear=3D"no=
ne">
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
</blockquote></div>

</div>

</div>

</div>

<div class=3D"gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_5102154560421=
217780yqt2634990127" id=3D"gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_=
5102154560421217780yqt13738">______________________________________________=
_<br clear=3D"none"><a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">fot@autox=
.team.net</a><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><a rel=3D"noopener noref=
errer" shape=3D"rect">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br clear=3D"none"><br c=
lear=3D"none">Donate: <a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">http://=
www.team.net/donate.html</a><br clear=3D"none">Archive: <a rel=3D"noopener =
noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">http://autox.team.net/archive </a><a rel=3D"noop=
ener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a><br cl=
ear=3D"none">Unsubscribe/Manage: <a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"re=
ct">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a><br clear=
=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div>

</div>

</div>

</blockquote></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</font></div><font size=3D"2">
</font></blockquote></div>

--000000000000dbd4fd058fd9d848--

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--===============1624457076881323722==--

---

From: barry rosenberg via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 16:45:45 +0000 (UTC)

--===============8503824444511809892==
	boundary="----=_Part_2854309_1997647591.1565541945819"

------=_Part_2854309_1997647591.1565541945819
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 Tapered bearings do not work very well in the TR7/8 5 speed so I would not=
 expect much better in the TR3-6 box. Why not chuck the lay gear in your la=
the, bore out the hole a little deeper and make a long bronze oil-lite bear=
ing for it? I have done this dozens of time with no problems. Also mich the=
 replacement lay shaft as the ones for MGBs are .0025" too small!
Barry
    On Sunday, August 11, 2019, 11:31:25 AM CDT, Glenn Franco via Fot <fot@=
autox.team.net> wrote: =20
=20
 Yes exactly right.By writing this post, I was actually hoping that someone=
 had come up with a good method or tool to get that bugger out of the case.=
So far I have not. Its hard enough to get the left over shell of that beari=
ng out of the laygear when you can get the thrust washer out. I have had to=
 resort to grinding a slot in the bearing shell to remove it.I would apprec=
iate it if someone has a procedure for installing a tapered roller bearing.=
=C2=A0I would be interested in giving it a try.Glenn =C2=A0

 Yes Glenn that's exactly what happens.It's not an issue with the circlip g=
ears converted to the shell bearings obviously but too common with the pres=
sed only.I put a little loctite on them, they're usually a bitch to remove =
anyway.In addition to the high load on the rear of the laygear & bearing, i=
t's exacerbated by all of the little bits of metal generated directly above=
 by the graunching going into 1st & reverse, that stuff gets behind the thr=
ust washer and eats up the backside of the washer & the case.I share your p=
ain...Glen

=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Glenn Franco <[email-masked]>
To: fubog1 <[email-masked]>
Cc: John Styduhar <[email-masked]>; FOT list <[email-masked]>
Sent: Sun, Aug 11, 2019 8:43 am
Subject: Re: [Fot] Triumph 4 speed O/D's and Layshaft bearing failures.

Just to clarify, the problem is on both 4 speed and 4 speed O/D transmissio=
ns.Every failure I encounter is with the caged needle bearings not the loos=
e needle bearings in the very early transmissions. The last few years I hav=
e been rebuilding many TR3 and TR4 Transmissions. The bearing shell (that h=
olds the needles in place) works/walks along the shaft and forces itself in=
to the small thrust washer that is near the smaller 1st gear. The shell wil=
l then fracture into pieces and the remaining will dig into the thrust wash=
er and then the case if not removed soon enough.The caged bearing shells ar=
e available through Moss but the problem is getting that laygear out of the=
 transmission case. As I stated earlier, to remove the laygear ( after the =
shaft is removed ) the small thrust washer needs to be removed so the layge=
ar can tilt and worked out of the case. When the bearing shell machines its=
 way into the thrust washer its almost impossible to get it out. Then you h=
ave a scrap case on your hands.Glenn with 2 n's

-----Original Message-----
From: John Styduhar via Fot <[email-masked]>
To: Glenn Franco <[email-masked]>
Cc: FOT list <[email-masked]>
Sent: Sat, Aug 10, 2019 6:41 pm
Subject: Re: [Fot] Triumph 4 speed O/D's and Layshaft bearing failures.

south.net

 =20
------=_Part_2854309_1997647591.1565541945819
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"ydp31da7ba0yahoo-style-wrap" style=
=3D"font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 1=
3px;"><div></div>
        <div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Tapered bearings do not work=
 very well in the TR7/8 5 speed so I would not expect much better in the TR=
3-6 box. Why not chuck the lay gear in your lathe, bore out the hole a litt=
le deeper and make a long bronze oil-lite bearing for it? I have done this =
dozens of time with no problems. Also mich the replacement lay shaft as the=
 ones for MGBs are .0025" too small!</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"f=
alse"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Barry</div><div><br>=
</div>
       =20
        </div><div id=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyahoo_quoted_5603625054" class=3D"ydp23=
fa1c3cyahoo_quoted">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
                <div>
                    On Sunday, August 11, 2019, 11:31:25 AM CDT, Glenn Fran=
co via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><div id=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419"><div dir=3D"ltr">=
<div>Yes exactly right.</div><div>By writing this post, I was actually hopi=
ng that someone had come up with a good method or tool to get that bugger o=
ut of the case.</div><div>So far I have not. </div><div>Its hard enough to =
get the left over shell of that bearing out of the laygear when you can get=
 the thrust washer out. I have had to resort to grinding a slot in the bear=
ing shell to remove it.</div><div>I would appreciate it if someone has a pr=
ocedure for installing a tapered roller bearing.&nbsp;I would be interested=
 in giving it a try.</div><div>Glenn &nbsp;<br></div></div><br><div class=
=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail_quote"><div class=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv565327=
7419gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 9:55 AM fubog1 &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">fubog1@aol=
.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-=
color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;">
<div style=3D"font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; lin=
e-height: normal; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black; =
font-stretch: normal;">
<div> <font size=3D"2">Yes Glenn that's exactly what happens.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2">It's not an issue with the circlip gears converted to=
 the shell bearings obviously but too common with the pressed only.</font><=
/div>

<div><font size=3D"2">I put a little loctite on them, they're usually a bit=
ch to remove anyway.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2">In addition to the high load on the rear of the layge=
ar &amp; bearing, it's exacerbated by all of the little bits of metal gener=
ated directly above by the graunching going into 1st &amp; reverse, that st=
uff gets behind the thrust washer and eats up the backside of the washer &a=
mp; the case.</font></div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"color:black;font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:10pt;">---=
--Original Message-----<br>
From: Glenn Franco &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofol=
low" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
To: fubog1 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D=
"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: John Styduhar &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollo=
w" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; FOT list &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
.net</a>&gt;<br>
Sent: Sun, Aug 11, 2019 8:43 am<br>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Triumph 4 speed O/D's and Layshaft bearing failures.<br>
<br>

<div id=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041=
">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>Just to clarify, the problem is on both 4 speed and 4 speed O/D transm=
issions.</div>

<div>Glenn with 2 n's<br clear=3D"none"></div>
</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div class=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328=
041yqt3486745670" id=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199=
yiv7442328041yqt55485">
<div class=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328=
041gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328=
041gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 8:14 AM fubog1 &lt;<a sh=
ape=3D"rect">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none"></div>
<blockquote class=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv=
7442328041gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;b=
order-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:s=
olid;">

<div style=3D"font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; lin=
e-height: normal; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black; =
font-stretch: normal;">

<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div style=3D"color:black;font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:10pt;">---=
--Original Message-----<br clear=3D"none">
From: John Styduhar via Fot &lt;<a shape=3D"rect">[email-masked]</a>&gt=
;<br clear=3D"none">
To: Glenn Franco &lt;<a shape=3D"rect">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br clea=
r=3D"none">
Cc: FOT list &lt;<a shape=3D"rect">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"n=
one">
Sent: Sat, Aug 10, 2019 6:41 pm<br clear=3D"none">
Subject: Re: [Fot] Triumph 4 speed O/D's and Layshaft bearing failures.<br =
clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">

<div id=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041=
gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818">

<div>

<div dir=3D"ltr">

<div class=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328=
041gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818gmail_default" style=3D"font-siz=
e:small;">Glenn, are you saying that the layshaft bearing failure you descr=
ibed is more prevalent when the tranny has an O/D or is it a general proble=
m?&nbsp; Thanks</div>

<div class=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328=
041gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818gmail_default" style=3D"font-siz=
e:small;"><br clear=3D"none"></div>

</div>

<br clear=3D"none">

<div class=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328=
041gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818gmail_quote">

<div class=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328=
041gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818yqt2634990127" id=3D"ydp23fa1c3c=
yiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_51021545604212=
17780yiv5940175818yqt95968">

<div class=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328=
041gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Sat, =
Aug 10, 2019 at 3:52 PM Glenn Franco via Fot &lt;<a shape=3D"rect">fot@auto=
x.team.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none"></div>

<blockquote class=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv=
7442328041gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);b=
order-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;">

<div dir=3D"ltr">

<div>Please advise</div>

<div>Glenn</div>

</div>

_______________________________________________<br clear=3D"none">
<a shape=3D"rect">[email-masked]</a><br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<a shape=3D"rect">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
one">
Archive: <a shape=3D"rect">http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a shape=3D"re=
ct">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot<br clear=3D"none">
ions/fot/[email-masked]</a><br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
</blockquote></div>

</div>

</div>

</div>

<div class=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328=
041gmail-m_5102154560421217780yqt2634990127" id=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419=
gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_5102154560421217780yqt13738=
">_______________________________________________<br clear=3D"none"><a shap=
e=3D"rect">[email-masked]</a><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><a s=
hape=3D"rect">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"=
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</div>

</div>

</blockquote></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</font></div><font size=3D"2">
</font></blockquote></div></div>___________________________________________=
____<br><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_b=
lank">[email-masked]</a><br><br><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" r=
el=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br><br>Dona=
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        </div></body></html>
------=_Part_2854309_1997647591.1565541945819--

--===============8503824444511809892==
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--===============8503824444511809892==--

---

From: Greg Blake via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 12:26:23 -0500

--===============6304032032590321327==
	boundary=Apple-Mail-98B6B635-F86C-4728-B17C-1F5E43E458AE
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

--Apple-Mail-98B6B635-F86C-4728-B17C-1F5E43E458AE
	charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I had one stuck last year. This is the little pulled I made from 2 exhaust c=
lamps and some all thread rod. Worked like a champ.=20

Greg

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 11, 2019, at 11:45 AM, barry rosenberg via Fot <[email-masked]>=
> Tapered bearings do not work very well in the TR7/8 5 speed so I would not=
 expect much better in the TR3-6 box. Why not chuck the lay gear in your lat=
he, bore out the hole a little deeper and make a long bronze oil-lite bearin=
g for it? I have done this dozens of time with no problems. Also mich the re=
placement lay shaft as the ones for MGBs are .0025" too small!
>=20
> Barry
>=20
> On Sunday, August 11, 2019, 11:31:25 AM CDT, Glenn Franco via Fot <fot@aut=
ox.team.net> wrote:
>=20
>=20
> Yes exactly right.
> By writing this post, I was actually hoping that someone had come up with a=
> So far I have not.
> Its hard enough to get the left over shell of that bearing out of the layg=
ear when you can get the thrust washer out. I have had to resort to grinding=
 a slot in the bearing shell to remove it.
> I would appreciate it if someone has a procedure for installing a tapered r=
oller bearing. I would be interested in giving it a try.
> Glenn =20
> It's not an issue with the circlip gears converted to the shell bearings o=
bviously but too common with the pressed only.
> In addition to the high load on the rear of the laygear & bearing, it's ex=
acerbated by all of the little bits of metal generated directly above by the=
 graunching going into 1st & reverse, that stuff gets behind the thrust wash=
er and eats up the backside of the washer & the case.
> Just to clarify, the problem is on both 4 speed and 4 speed O/D transmissi=
ons.
> Every failure I encounter is with the caged needle bearings not the loose n=
eedle bearings in the very early transmissions. The last few years I have be=
en rebuilding many TR3 and TR4 Transmissions.
> The bearing shell (that holds the needles in place) works/walks along the s=
haft and forces itself into the small thrust washer that is near the smaller=
 1st gear. The shell will then fracture into pieces and the remaining will d=
ig into the thrust washer and then the case if not removed soon enough.
> The caged bearing shells are available through Moss but the problem is get=
ting that laygear out of the transmission case. As I stated earlier, to remo=
ve the laygear ( after the shaft is removed ) the small thrust washer needs t=
o be removed so the laygear can tilt and worked out of the case.
> When the bearing shell machines its way into the thrust washer its almost i=
mpossible to get it out. Then you have a scrap case on your hands.
> Glenn, are you saying that the layshaft bearing failure you described is m=
ore prevalent when the tranny has an O/D or is it a general problem?  Thanks=

> Just finished another A Type Overdrive rebuild this afternoon. Next one I d=
o I'm going to insist that the owner bring a spare 4 speed for parts or mayb=
e 2.
> I very rarely find an overdrive transmission that the layshaft bearing nex=
t to 1st that hasn't walked and tried to escape the case through the thrust b=
earing. I have tried in vane to remove the laygear with one that ground its w=
ay into the thrust bearing and sometimes the case. I sometimes get the layge=
ar out but in most cases the trans case with the laygear is sent to scrap.
> Does anyone have a solution, trick, special tool, to ease the laygear out.=
 The normal way is to remove the small thust bearing with a magnet so you ca=
n tilt the laygear enough to get it out. I have even once resorted to a " Sl=
ugger Slide Hammer" and chain wrapped around the laygear to get it out. Didn=
't end well however.
> I did read somewhere that someone is using a tapered roller bearing on tha=
t end which would make more sense than the original design.
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/johnstydo@gm=
ail.com
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]=
om
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/britcars@bel=
lsouth.net
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gblake58tr3@=
icloud.com

--Apple-Mail-98B6B635-F86C-4728-B17C-1F5E43E458AE
	type="text/html";
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

--Apple-Mail-357B24AE-F776-44E8-B422-A02612094C32
	charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
us-ascii"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>I had one stuck last year. This is t=
he little pulled I made from 2 exhaust clamps and some all thread rod. Worke=
d like a champ.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Greg</div><img src=3D"cid:075=
33B4E-B63B-4AD9-A202-3988B48F43CC" alt=3D"image1.jpeg" id=3D"07533B4E-B63B-4=
AD9-A202-3988B48F43CC"><br><img src=3D"cid:8C66D814-E5BE-4A4E-AE6E-BE0ABB2F8=
D3C" alt=3D"image2.jpeg" id=3D"8C66D814-E5BE-4A4E-AE6E-BE0ABB2F8D3C"><div><i=
mg src=3D"cid:55634A2C-596A-40CB-9CBA-44CAB3A26CC4" alt=3D"image3.jpeg" id=3D=
"55634A2C-596A-40CB-9CBA-44CAB3A26CC4"></div><div><img src=3D"cid:1F4163A8-D=
EF7-4094-853E-637622F96923" alt=3D"image4.jpeg" id=3D"1F4163A8-DEF7-4094-853=
E-637622F96923"><span style=3D"-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0)=
;"><br></span><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my iPhone=
</div><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div id=3D"AppleM=
ailSignature" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Aug 11, 2019, at=
 11:45 AM, barry rosenberg via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
>[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"ydp31da7ba0yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-fami=
ly: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"><div></d=
iv>
        <div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Tapered bearings do not work v=
ery well in the TR7/8 5 speed so I would not expect much better in the TR3-6=
 box. Why not chuck the lay gear in your lathe, bore out the hole a little d=
eeper and make a long bronze oil-lite bearing for it? I have done this dozen=
s of time with no problems. Also mich the replacement lay shaft as the ones f=
or MGBs are .0025" too small!</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><b=
r></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Barry</div><div><br></div>
       =20
        </div><div id=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyahoo_quoted_5603625054" class=3D"ydp23f=
a1c3cyahoo_quoted">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sa=
ns-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
                <div>
                    On Sunday, August 11, 2019, 11:31:25 AM CDT, Glenn Franc=
o via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&g=
t; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><div id=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419"><div dir=3D"ltr"><=
div>Yes exactly right.</div><div>By writing this post, I was actually hoping=
 that someone had come up with a good method or tool to get that bugger out o=
f the case.</div><div>So far I have not. </div><div>Its hard enough to get t=
he left over shell of that bearing out of the laygear when you can get the t=
hrust washer out. I have had to resort to grinding a slot in the bearing she=
ll to remove it.</div><div>I would appreciate it if someone has a procedure f=
or installing a tapered roller bearing.&nbsp;I would be interested in giving=
 it a try.</div><div>Glenn &nbsp;<br></div></div><br><div class=3D"ydp23fa1c=
3cyiv5653277419gmail_quote"><div class=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail_attr=
" dir=3D"ltr">On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 9:55 AM fubog1 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:f=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wro=
te:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,=
204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;">
<div style=3D"font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line=
-height: normal; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black; fo=
nt-stretch: normal;">
<div> <font size=3D"2">Yes Glenn that's exactly what happens.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2">It's not an issue with the circlip gears converted to t=
he shell bearings obviously but too common with the pressed only.</font></di=
v>

<div><font size=3D"2">I put a little loctite on them, they're usually a bitc=
h to remove anyway.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2">In addition to the high load on the rear of the laygea=
r &amp; bearing, it's exacerbated by all of the little bits of metal generat=
ed directly above by the graunching going into 1st &amp; reverse, that stuff=
 gets behind the thrust washer and eats up the backside of the washer &amp; t=
he case.</font></div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"color:black;font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:10pt;">----=
-Original Message-----<br>
From: Glenn Franco &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofoll=
ow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
To: fubog1 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"=
_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: John Styduhar &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow=
" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; FOT list &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
t</a>&gt;<br>
Sent: Sun, Aug 11, 2019 8:43 am<br>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Triumph 4 speed O/D's and Layshaft bearing failures.<br>
<br>

<div id=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041"=
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>Just to clarify, the problem is on both 4 speed and 4 speed O/D transmi=
ssions.</div>

<div>Every failure I encounter is with the caged needle bearings not the loo=
se needle bearings in the very early transmissions. The last few years I hav=
e been rebuilding many TR3 and TR4 Transmissions. </div>

<div>The bearing shell (that holds the needles in place) works/walks along t=
he shaft and forces itself into the small thrust washer that is near the sma=
ller 1st gear. The shell will then fracture into pieces and the remaining wi=
ll dig into the thrust washer and then the case if not removed soon enough.<=
/div>

<div>The caged bearing shells are available through Moss but the problem is g=
etting that laygear out of the transmission case. As I stated earlier, to re=
move the laygear ( after the shaft is removed ) the small thrust washer need=
s to be removed so the laygear can tilt and worked out of the case. </div>

<div>When the bearing shell machines its way into the thrust washer its almo=
st impossible to get it out. Then you have a scrap case on your hands.</div>=

<div>Glenn with 2 n's<br clear=3D"none"></div>
</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div class=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv74423280=
41yqt3486745670" id=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yi=
v7442328041yqt55485">
<div class=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv74423280=
41gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv74423280=
41gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 8:14 AM fubog1 &lt;<a shap=
e=3D"rect">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none"></div>
<blockquote class=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7=
442328041gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;bor=
der-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:soli=
d;">

<div style=3D"font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line=
-height: normal; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black; fo=
nt-stretch: normal;">

<div> <font size=3D"2">That problem isn't unique to the O/D boxes.</font></d=
iv>

<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div style=3D"color:black;font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:10pt;">----=
-Original Message-----<br clear=3D"none">
From: John Styduhar via Fot &lt;<a shape=3D"rect">[email-masked]</a>&gt;=
<br clear=3D"none">
To: Glenn Franco &lt;<a shape=3D"rect">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br clear=
=3D"none">
Cc: FOT list &lt;<a shape=3D"rect">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"no=
ne">
Sent: Sat, Aug 10, 2019 6:41 pm<br clear=3D"none">
Subject: Re: [Fot] Triumph 4 speed O/D's and Layshaft bearing failures.<br c=
lear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">

<div id=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041g=
mail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818">

<div>

<div dir=3D"ltr">

<div class=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv74423280=
41gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:=
small;">Glenn, are you saying that the layshaft bearing failure you describe=
d is more prevalent when the tranny has an O/D or is it a general problem?&n=
bsp; Thanks</div>

<div class=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv74423280=
41gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:=
small;"><br clear=3D"none"></div>

</div>

<br clear=3D"none">

<div class=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv74423280=
41gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818gmail_quote">

<div class=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv74423280=
41gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818yqt2634990127" id=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyi=
v5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_51021545604212177=
80yiv5940175818yqt95968">

<div class=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv74423280=
41gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Sat, Au=
g 10, 2019 at 3:52 PM Glenn Franco via Fot &lt;<a shape=3D"rect">[email-masked]=
eam.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none"></div>

<blockquote class=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7=
442328041gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);bord=
er-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;">

<div dir=3D"ltr">

<div>Just finished another A Type Overdrive rebuild this afternoon. Next one=
 I do I'm going to insist that the owner bring a spare 4 speed for parts or m=
aybe 2.</div>

<div>I very rarely find an overdrive transmission that the layshaft bearing n=
ext to 1st that hasn't walked and tried to escape the case through the thrus=
t bearing. I have tried in vane to remove the laygear&nbsp;with one that gro=
und its way into the thrust bearing and sometimes the case. I sometimes get t=
he laygear out but in most cases the trans case with the laygear is sent to s=
crap.</div>

<div>Does anyone have a solution, trick, special tool, to ease the laygear o=
ut. The normal way is to remove the small thust bearing with a magnet so you=
 can tilt the laygear enough to get it out. I have even once resorted to&nbs=
p;a " Slugger Slide Hammer" and chain wrapped around the laygear to get it o=
ut. Didn't end well however.</div>

<div>I did read somewhere that someone is using a tapered roller bearing on t=
hat end which would make more sense than the original design.</div>

<div>Please advise</div>

<div>Glenn</div>

<div>TR6, TR250, Miata, 47 MG TC For Sale, 73 BMW E10 2002 being restored</d=
iv>

</div>

_______________________________________________<br clear=3D"none">
<a shape=3D"rect">[email-masked]</a><br clear=3D"none">
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<a shape=3D"rect">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
ne">
Archive: <a shape=3D"rect">http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a shape=3D"rec=
t">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot<br clear=3D"none">
ons/fot/[email-masked]</a><br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
</blockquote></div>

</div>

</div>

</div>

<div class=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv74423280=
41gmail-m_5102154560421217780yqt2634990127" id=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gm=
ail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_5102154560421217780yqt13738">_=
______________________________________________<br clear=3D"none"><a shape=3D=
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</div>

</div>

</blockquote></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</font></div><font size=3D"2">
</font></blockquote></div></div>____________________________________________=
___<br><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_bla=
nk">[email-masked]</a><br><br><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" rel=3D=
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<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span><a hre=
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n><br><span><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com">http://www.fot-racing.com<=
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<br></div></blockquote></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-357B24AE-F776-44E8-B422-A02612094C32
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--===============6304032032590321327==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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--===============6304032032590321327==--

---

From: Glenn Franco via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 14:55:57 -0400

--===============9212496262803355359==

--00000000000018014b058fdbf66a

--000000000000180149058fdbf669
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Well that's pretty cool!
I'm not sure those steel plates are big enough though=F0=9F=98=AC
Did it screw up the case since it looks like your pulling from somewhere
midway on the laygear.
Thanks
Glenn

On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 1:26 PM Greg Blake <[email-masked]> wrote:

> I had one stuck last year. This is the little pulled I made from 2 exhaus=
t
> clamps and some all thread rod. Worked like a champ.
>
> Greg
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Aug 11, 2019, at 11:45 AM, barry rosenberg via Fot <[email-masked]=
>
> wrote:
>
> Tapered bearings do not work very well in the TR7/8 5 speed so I would no=
t
> expect much better in the TR3-6 box. Why not chuck the lay gear in your
> lathe, bore out the hole a little deeper and make a long bronze oil-lite
> bearing for it? I have done this dozens of time with no problems. Also mi=
ch
> the replacement lay shaft as the ones for MGBs are .0025" too small!
>
> Barry
>
> On Sunday, August 11, 2019, 11:31:25 AM CDT, Glenn Franco via Fot <
> [email-masked]> wrote:
>
>
> Yes exactly right.
> By writing this post, I was actually hoping that someone had come up with
> a good method or tool to get that bugger out of the case.
> So far I have not.
> exacerbated by all of the little bits of metal generated directly above b=
y
> the graunching going into 1st & reverse, that stuff gets behind the thrus=
t
> needle bearings in the very early transmissions. The last few years I hav=
e
> remaining will dig into the thrust washer and then the case if not remove=
d
> getting that laygear out of the transmission case. As I stated earlier, t=
o
> ground its way into the thrust bearing and sometimes the case. I sometime=
s
> Does anyone have a solution, trick, special tool, to ease the laygear out=
.
> can tilt the laygear enough to get it out. I have even once resorted to a=
 "
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>
>
>

--000000000000180149058fdbf669
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Well that&#39;s pretty cool! </div><div>I&#39;m not s=
ure those steel plates are big enough though=F0=9F=98=AC</div><div>Did it s=
crew up the case since it looks like your pulling from somewhere midway on =
the laygear.</div><div>Thanks</div><div>Glenn<br></div></div><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Sun, Aug 11, 2019=
 at 1:26 PM Greg Blake &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">gblake=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div dir=3D"auto"=
><div>I had one stuck last year. This is the little pulled I made from 2 ex=
haust clamps and some all thread rod. Worked like a champ.=C2=A0</div><div>=
<br></div><div>Greg</div><img id=3D"gmail-m_-712122269175905792607533B4E-B6=
3B-4AD9-A202-3988B48F43CC" alt=3D"image1.jpeg" src=3D"cid:16c82075f2b43c689=
201"><br><img id=3D"gmail-m_-71212226917590579268C66D814-E5BE-4A4E-AE6E-BE0=
ABB2F8D3C" alt=3D"image2.jpeg" src=3D"cid:16c82075f2c457b61bf2"><div><img i=
d=3D"gmail-m_-712122269175905792655634A2C-596A-40CB-9CBA-44CAB3A26CC4" alt=
=3D"image3.jpeg" src=3D"cid:16c82075f2d47303a5e3"></div><div><img id=3D"gma=
il-m_-71212226917590579261F4163A8-DEF7-4094-853E-637622F96923" alt=3D"image=
4.jpeg" src=3D"cid:16c82075f2d48e512fd4"><span><br></span><div id=3D"gmail-=
m_-7121222691759057926AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my iPhone</=
div><div id=3D"gmail-m_-7121222691759057926AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"ltr">=
<br></div><div id=3D"gmail-m_-7121222691759057926AppleMailSignature" dir=3D=
"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Aug 11, 2019, at 11:45 AM, barry ro=
senberg via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank"=
>[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><=
div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail-m_-7121222691759057926ydp31da7ba0yahoo-=
style-wrap" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;=
font-size:13px"><div>
        <div dir=3D"ltr">Tapered bearings do not work very well in the TR7/=
8 5 speed so I would not expect much better in the TR3-6 box. Why not chuck=
 the lay gear in your lathe, bore out the hole a little deeper and make a l=
ong bronze oil-lite bearing for it? I have done this dozens of time with no=
 problems. Also mich the replacement lay shaft as the ones for MGBs are .00=
25&quot; too small!</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Barry<=
/div><div><br></div>
       =20
        </div><div class=3D"gmail-m_-7121222691759057926ydp23fa1c3cyahoo_qu=
oted" id=3D"gmail-m_-7121222691759057926ydp23fa1c3cyahoo_quoted_5603625054"=
            <div style=3D"color:rgb(38,40,42);font-family:&quot;Helvetica N=
eue&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
               =20
                <div>
                    On Sunday, August 11, 2019, 11:31:25 AM CDT, Glenn Fran=
co via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">fot@=
autox.team.net</a>&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><div id=3D"gmail-m_-7121222691759057926ydp23fa1c3cyiv5=
653277419"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Yes exactly right.</div><div>By writing th=
is post, I was actually hoping that someone had come up with a good method =
or tool to get that bugger out of the case.</div><div>So far I have not. </=
div><div>Its hard enough to get the left over shell of that bearing out of =
the laygear when you can get the thrust washer out. I have had to resort to=
 grinding a slot in the bearing shell to remove it.</div><div>I would appre=
ciate it if someone has a procedure for installing a tapered roller bearing=
.=C2=A0I would be interested in giving it a try.</div><div>Glenn =C2=A0<br>=
</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail-m_-7121222691759057926ydp23fa1c3cyiv565=
3277419gmail_quote"><div class=3D"gmail-m_-7121222691759057926ydp23fa1c3cyi=
v5653277419gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 9:55 AM fubog1 &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow">fub=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail-m_-712122269=
1759057926ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width=
:1px;border-left-style:solid">
<div style=3D"color:black;line-height:normal;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sa=
ns-serif;font-size:10pt;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:n=
ormal">
<div> <font size=3D"2">Yes Glenn that&#39;s exactly what happens.</font></d=
iv>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"color:black;font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt">-----=
Original Message-----<br>
From: Glenn Franco &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_b=
lank" rel=3D"nofollow">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
To: fubog1 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"n=
ofollow">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: John Styduhar &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_bla=
nk" rel=3D"nofollow">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; FOT list &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow">[email-masked]=
.net</a>&gt;<br>
Sent: Sun, Aug 11, 2019 8:43 am<br>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Triumph 4 speed O/D&#39;s and Layshaft bearing failures.=
<br>
<br>

<div id=3D"gmail-m_-7121222691759057926ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739=
331892266898199yiv7442328041">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>Just to clarify, the problem is on both 4 speed and 4 speed O/D transm=
issions.</div>

<div>Glenn with 2 n&#39;s<br clear=3D"none"></div>
</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-7121222691759057926ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4=
739331892266898199yiv7442328041yqt3486745670" id=3D"gmail-m_-71212226917590=
57926ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041yqt554=
85">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-7121222691759057926ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4=
739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-7121222691759057926ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4=
739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Sun, Aug 11, 2019=
 at 8:14 AM fubog1 &lt;<a shape=3D"rect">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br c=
lear=3D"none"></div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail-m_-7121222691759057926ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gm=
ail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-w=
idth:1px;border-left-style:solid">

<div style=3D"color:black;line-height:normal;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sa=
ns-serif;font-size:10pt;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:n=
ormal">

<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div id=3D"gmail-m_-7121222691759057926ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739=
331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818">

<div>

<div dir=3D"ltr">

<div class=3D"gmail-m_-7121222691759057926ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4=
739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818gmai=
l_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Glenn, are you saying that the layshaf=
t bearing failure you described is more prevalent when the tranny has an O/=
D or is it a general problem?=C2=A0 Thanks</div>

<div class=3D"gmail-m_-7121222691759057926ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4=
739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818gmai=
l_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br clear=3D"none"></div>

</div>

<br clear=3D"none">

<div class=3D"gmail-m_-7121222691759057926ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4=
739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818gmai=
l_quote">

<div class=3D"gmail-m_-7121222691759057926ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4=
739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818yqt2=
634990127" id=3D"gmail-m_-7121222691759057926ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-=
m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818y=
qt95968">

<div class=3D"gmail-m_-7121222691759057926ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4=
739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818gmai=
l_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Sat, Aug 10, 2019 at 3:52 PM Glenn Franco via Fot &l=
t;<a shape=3D"rect">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none"></d=
iv>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail-m_-7121222691759057926ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gm=
ail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175=
818gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-l=
eft-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">

<div dir=3D"ltr">

<div>Please advise</div>

<div>Glenn</div>

</div>

</div>

</div>

</div>

<div class=3D"gmail-m_-7121222691759057926ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4=
739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_5102154560421217780yqt2634990127" id=
=3D"gmail-m_-7121222691759057926ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_47393318922=
66898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_5102154560421217780yqt13738">_________________=
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x.team.net</a><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><a shape=3D"rect">http:=
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</div>

</div>

</blockquote></div>
</div>
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</font></div><font size=3D"2">
</font></blockquote></div></div>___________________________________________=
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        </div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><s=
pan><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked].=
net</a></span><br><span><br><span><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" tar=
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From: John Styduhar via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 15:02:14 -0400

--===============0388596582923655600==

--0000000000005cffd2058fdc0cfa

Don't scrap your TR gearbox case if damaged.  The bellhousing can be used
for a toyota 5-speed conversion.  Just cut off through the two vent opening
are on the sides.  I will pay the shiipping.

> TR6, TR250, Miata, 47 MG TC For Sale, 73 BMW E10 2002 being restored

--0000000000005cffd2058fdc0cfa
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Don=
&#39;t scrap your TR gearbox case if damaged.=C2=A0 The bellhousing can be =
used for a toyota 5-speed conversion.=C2=A0 Just cut off through the two ve=
nt opening are on the sides.=C2=A0 I will pay the shiipping.</div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div></div><br><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Aug 10, 201=
9 at 3:52 PM Glenn Franco via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
>[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)=
;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Just finished another A Type Overd=
rive rebuild this afternoon. Next one I do I&#39;m going to insist that the=
 owner bring a spare 4 speed for parts or maybe 2.</div><div>I very rarely =
find an overdrive transmission that the layshaft bearing next to 1st that h=
asn&#39;t walked and tried to escape the case through the thrust bearing. I=
 have tried in vane to remove the laygear=C2=A0with one that ground its way=
 into the thrust bearing and sometimes the case. I sometimes get the laygea=
r out but in most cases the trans case with the laygear is sent to scrap.</=
div><div>Does anyone have a solution, trick, special tool, to ease the layg=
ear out. The normal way is to remove the small thust bearing with a magnet =
so you can tilt the laygear enough to get it out. I have even once resorted=
 to=C2=A0a &quot; Slugger Slide Hammer&quot; and chain wrapped around the l=
aygear to get it out. Didn&#39;t end well however.</div><div>I did read som=
ewhere that someone is using a tapered roller bearing on that end which wou=
ld make more sense than the original design.</div><div>Please advise</div><=
div>Thanks in advance</div><div>Glenn</div><div>TR6, TR250, Miata, 47 MG TC=
 For Sale, 73 BMW E10 2002 being restored</div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]<=
/a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">=
http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br>
<br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a href=3D"http://www.team.n=
et/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tp://www.team.net/pipermail/fot<br>
t/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.te=
am.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>

--0000000000005cffd2058fdc0cfa--

--===============0388596582923655600==
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From: Glenn Franco via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 16:13:17 -0400

--===============6337408850744561200==

--000000000000a794ef058fdd0a18

Ok, thanks.

On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 3:02 PM John Styduhar <[email-masked]> wrote:

>> Does anyone have a solution, trick, special tool, to ease the laygear
>> out. The normal way is to remove the small thust bearing with a magnet so
>> you can tilt the laygear enough to get it out. I have even once resorted
>> to a " Slugger Slide Hammer" and chain wrapped around the laygear to get it
>> out. Didn't end well however.

--000000000000a794ef058fdd0a18
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Ok, thanks.=C2=A0<br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 3:02 PM John =
Styduhar &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>=
&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-le=
ft-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_=
default" style=3D"font-size:small">Don&#39;t scrap your TR gearbox case if =
damaged.=C2=A0 The bellhousing can be used for a toyota 5-speed conversion.=
=C2=A0 Just cut off through the two vent opening are on the sides.=C2=A0 I =
will pay the shiipping.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-siz=
e:small"><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"gmail=
_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Sat, Aug 10, 2019 at 3:52 PM Glenn Franco via Fot &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:=
0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);borde=
r-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Just finish=
ed another A Type Overdrive rebuild this afternoon. Next one I do I&#39;m g=
oing to insist that the owner bring a spare 4 speed for parts or maybe 2.</=
div><div>I very rarely find an overdrive transmission that the layshaft bea=
ring next to 1st that hasn&#39;t walked and tried to escape the case throug=
h the thrust bearing. I have tried in vane to remove the laygear=C2=A0with =
one that ground its way into the thrust bearing and sometimes the case. I s=
ometimes get the laygear out but in most cases the trans case with the layg=
ear is sent to scrap.</div><div>Does anyone have a solution, trick, special=
 tool, to ease the laygear out. The normal way is to remove the small thust=
 bearing with a magnet so you can tilt the laygear enough to get it out. I =
have even once resorted to=C2=A0a &quot; Slugger Slide Hammer&quot; and cha=
in wrapped around the laygear to get it out. Didn&#39;t end well however.</=
div><div>I did read somewhere that someone is using a tapered roller bearin=
g on that end which would make more sense than the original design.</div><d=
iv>Please advise</div><div>Thanks in advance</div><div>Glenn</div><div>TR6,=
 TR250, Miata, 47 MG TC For Sale, 73 BMW E10 2002 being restored</div></div=
_______________________________________________<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]<=
/a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">=
http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br>
<br>
=3D"noreferrer">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D=
"noreferrer">http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a href=3D"http://www.team.n=
et/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">ht=
tp://www.team.net/pipermail/fot<br>
t/[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">http://autox.te=
am.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div>

--000000000000a794ef058fdd0a18--

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From: Bill Tobin via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 16:46:38 -0400

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--===============8770775497949792099==
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--------------71DBE52695F67FE9AFD4FD31
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Now that's impressive; simple, cheap, and it works. Good job.

Cheers, Bill

On 8/11/2019 1:26 PM, Greg Blake via Fot wrote:
> I had one stuck last year. This is the little pulled I made from 2 
> exhaust clamps and some all thread rod. Worked like a champ.
>
> Greg
> image1.jpeg
> image2.jpeg
> image3.jpeg
> image4.jpeg
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Aug 11, 2019, at 11:45 AM, barry rosenberg via Fot 
>
>> Tapered bearings do not work very well in the TR7/8 5 speed so I 
>> would not expect much better in the TR3-6 box. Why not chuck the lay 
>> gear in your lathe, bore out the hole a little deeper and make a long 
>> bronze oil-lite bearing for it? I have done this dozens of time with 
>> no problems. Also mich the replacement lay shaft as the ones for MGBs 
>> are .0025" too small!
>>
>> Barry
>>
>> On Sunday, August 11, 2019, 11:31:25 AM CDT, Glenn Franco via Fot 
>>
>>
>> Yes exactly right.
>> By writing this post, I was actually hoping that someone had come up 
>> with a good method or tool to get that bugger out of the case.
>> So far I have not.
>> laygear when you can get the thrust washer out. I have had to resort 
>> to grinding a slot in the bearing shell to remove it.
>> I would appreciate it if someone has a procedure for installing a 
>> tapered roller bearing.?I would be interested in giving it a try.
>> Glenn
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 9:55 AM fubog1 <[email-masked] 
>>
>>     It's not an issue with the circlip gears converted to the shell
>>     bearings obviously but too common with the pressed only.
>>     In addition to the high load on the rear of the laygear &
>>     bearing, it's exacerbated by all of the little bits of metal
>>     generated directly above by the graunching going into 1st &
>>     reverse, that stuff gets behind the thrust washer and eats up the
>>     backside of the washer & the case.
>>     I share your pain...
>>     Glen
>>
>>
>>
>>     From: Glenn Franco <[email-masked]
>>     Cc: John Styduhar <[email-masked]
>>     Every failure I encounter is with the caged needle bearings not
>>     the loose needle bearings in the very early transmissions. The
>>     last few years I have been rebuilding many TR3 and TR4
>>     Transmissions.
>>     The bearing shell (that holds the needles in place) works/walks
>>     along the shaft and forces itself into the small thrust washer
>>     that is near the smaller 1st gear. The shell will then fracture
>>     into pieces and the remaining will dig into the thrust washer and
>>     then the case if not removed soon enough.
>>     The caged bearing shells are available through Moss but the
>>     problem is getting that laygear out of the transmission case. As
>>     I stated earlier, to remove the laygear ( after the shaft is
>>     removed ) the small thrust washer needs to be removed so the
>>     laygear can tilt and worked out of the case.
>>     When the bearing shell machines its way into the thrust washer
>>     its almost impossible to get it out. Then you have a scrap case
>>     on your hands.
>>     Glenn with 2 n's
>>
>>         Glenn, are you saying that the layshaft bearing failure you
>>         described is more prevalent when the tranny has an O/D or is
>>         it a general problem?? Thanks
>>
>>
>>         On Sat, Aug 10, 2019 at 3:52 PM Glenn Franco via Fot
>>         <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>
>>             Just finished another A Type Overdrive rebuild this
>>             afternoon. Next one I do I'm going to insist that the
>>             owner bring a spare 4 speed for parts or maybe 2.
>>             I very rarely find an overdrive transmission that the
>>             layshaft bearing next to 1st that hasn't walked and tried
>>             to escape the case through the thrust bearing. I have
>>             tried in vane to remove the laygear?with one that ground
>>             its way into the thrust bearing and sometimes the case. I
>>             sometimes get the laygear out but in most cases the trans
>>             case with the laygear is sent to scrap.
>>             Does anyone have a solution, trick, special tool, to ease
>>             the laygear out. The normal way is to remove the small
>>             thust bearing with a magnet so you can tilt the laygear
>>             enough to get it out. I have even once resorted to?a "
>>             Slugger Slide Hammer" and chain wrapped around the
>>             laygear to get it out. Didn't end well however.
>>             I did read somewhere that someone is using a tapered
>>             roller bearing on that end which would make more sense
>>             than the original design.
>>             Please advise
>>             Thanks in advance
>>             Glenn
>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive 
>> >http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>
>

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<html>
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    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
      charset=windows-1252">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <p>Now that's impressive; simple, cheap, and it works. Good job.</p>
    <p>Cheers, Bill<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/11/2019 1:26 PM, Greg Blake via
      Fot wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
        charset=windows-1252">
      <div>I had one stuck last year. This is the little pulled I made
        from 2 exhaust clamps and some all thread rod. Worked like a
        champ.?</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Greg</div>
      <img src="cid:[email-masked]"
        alt="image1.jpeg" id="07533B4E-B63B-4AD9-A202-3988B48F43CC"
        class=""><br>
      <img src="cid:[email-masked]"
        alt="image2.jpeg" id="8C66D814-E5BE-4A4E-AE6E-BE0ABB2F8D3C"
        class="">
      <div><img src="cid:[email-masked]"
          alt="image3.jpeg" id="55634A2C-596A-40CB-9CBA-44CAB3A26CC4"
          class=""></div>
      <div><img src="cid:[email-masked]"
          alt="image4.jpeg" id="1F4163A8-DEF7-4094-853E-637622F96923"
          class=""><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(0, 0,
          0, 0);"><br>
        </span>
        <div id="AppleMailSignature" dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div>
        <div id="AppleMailSignature" dir="ltr"><br>
        </div>
        <div id="AppleMailSignature" dir="ltr"><br>
        </div>
        <div dir="ltr"><br>
          On Aug 11, 2019, at 11:45 AM, barry rosenberg via Fot &lt;<a
            href="mailto:[email-masked]" moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
          wrote:<br>
          <br>
        </div>
        <blockquote type="cite">
          <div dir="ltr">
            <div class="ydp31da7ba0yahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family:
              Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size:
              13px;">
              <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Tapered bearings do not
                work very well in the TR7/8 5 speed so I would not
                expect much better in the TR3-6 box. Why not chuck the
                lay gear in your lathe, bore out the hole a little
                deeper and make a long bronze oil-lite bearing for it? I
                have done this dozens of time with no problems. Also
                mich the replacement lay shaft as the ones for MGBs are
                .0025" too small!</div>
              <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Barry</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
            </div>
            <div id="ydp23fa1c3cyahoo_quoted_5603625054"
              class="ydp23fa1c3cyahoo_quoted">
              <div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica,
                Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
                <div> On Sunday, August 11, 2019, 11:31:25 AM CDT, Glenn
                  Franco via Fot &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                  wrote: </div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <div id="ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419">
                    <div dir="ltr">
                      <div>Yes exactly right.</div>
                      <div>By writing this post, I was actually hoping
                        that someone had come up with a good method or
                        tool to get that bugger out of the case.</div>
                      <div>So far I have not. </div>
                      <div>Its hard enough to get the left over shell of
                        that bearing out of the laygear when you can get
                        the thrust washer out. I have had to resort to
                        grinding a slot in the bearing shell to remove
                        it.</div>
                      <div>I would appreciate it if someone has a
                        procedure for installing a tapered roller
                        bearing.?I would be interested in giving it a
                        try.</div>
                      <div>Glenn ?<br>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <br>
                    <div class="ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail_quote">
                      <div class="ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail_attr"
                        dir="ltr">On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 9:55 AM fubog1
                        &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                          rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                        wrote:<br>
                      </div>
                      <blockquote
                        class="ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail_quote"
                        style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;">
                        <div style="font-style: normal; font-weight:
                          normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal;
                          font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
                          color: black; font-stretch: normal;">
                          <div> <font size="2">Yes Glenn that's exactly
                              what happens.</font></div>
                          <div><font size="2">It's not an issue with the
                              circlip gears converted to the shell
                              bearings obviously but too common with the
                              pressed only.</font></div>
                          <div><font size="2">I put a little loctite on
                              them, they're usually a bitch to remove
                              anyway.</font></div>
                          <div><font size="2">In addition to the high
                              load on the rear of the laygear &amp;
                              bearing, it's exacerbated by all of the
                              little bits of metal generated directly
                              above by the graunching going into 1st
                              &amp; reverse, that stuff gets behind the
                              thrust washer and eats up the backside of
                              the washer &amp; the case.</font></div>
                          <div><font size="2">I share your pain...</font></div>
                          <div><font size="2">Glen<br>
                            </font></div>
                          <div><font size="2"><br>
                            </font></div>
                          <font size="2">
                            <div> <br>
                            </div>
                            <div> <br>
                            </div>
                            <div style="color:black;font-family:arial,
                              helvetica;font-size:10pt;">-----Original
                              Message-----<br>
                              From: Glenn Franco &lt;<a
                                href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                                rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
                                moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
                              To: fubog1 &lt;<a
                                href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                                rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
                                moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
                              Cc: John Styduhar &lt;<a
                                href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                                rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
                                moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;;
                              FOT list &lt;<a
                                href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                                rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
                                moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
                              Sent: Sun, Aug 11, 2019 8:43 am<br>
                              Subject: Re: [Fot] Triumph 4 speed O/D's
                              and Layshaft bearing failures.<br>
                              <br>
                              <div
                                id="ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041">
                                <div>
                                  <div dir="ltr">
                                    <div>Just to clarify, the problem is
                                      on both 4 speed and 4 speed O/D
                                      transmissions.</div>
                                    <div>Every failure I encounter is
                                      with the caged needle bearings not
                                      the loose needle bearings in the
                                      very early transmissions. The last
                                      few years I have been rebuilding
                                      many TR3 and TR4 Transmissions. </div>
                                    <div>The bearing shell (that holds
                                      the needles in place) works/walks
                                      along the shaft and forces itself
                                      into the small thrust washer that
                                      is near the smaller 1st gear. The
                                      shell will then fracture into
                                      pieces and the remaining will dig
                                      into the thrust washer and then
                                      the case if not removed soon
                                      enough.</div>
                                    <div>The caged bearing shells are
                                      available through Moss but the
                                      problem is getting that laygear
                                      out of the transmission case. As I
                                      stated earlier, to remove the
                                      laygear ( after the shaft is
                                      removed ) the small thrust washer
                                      needs to be removed so the laygear
                                      can tilt and worked out of the
                                      case. </div>
                                    <div>When the bearing shell machines
                                      its way into the thrust washer its
                                      almost impossible to get it out.
                                      Then you have a scrap case on your
                                      hands.</div>
                                    <div>Glenn with 2 n's<br
                                        clear="none">
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                  <br clear="none">
                                  <div
class="ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041yqt3486745670"
id="ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041yqt55485">
                                    <div
class="ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail_quote">
                                      <div
class="ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail_attr"
                                        dir="ltr">On Sun, Aug 11, 2019
                                        at 8:14 AM fubog1 &lt;<a
                                          shape="rect"
                                          moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                                        wrote:<br clear="none">
                                      </div>
                                      <blockquote
class="ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail_quote"
                                        style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;">
                                        <div style="font-style: normal;
                                          font-weight: normal;
                                          font-size: 10pt; line-height:
                                          normal; font-family: Arial,
                                          Helvetica, sans-serif; color:
                                          black; font-stretch: normal;">
                                          <div> <font size="2">That
                                              problem isn't unique to
                                              the O/D boxes.</font></div>
                                          <div><font size="2"><br
                                                clear="none">
                                            </font></div>
                                          <div><font size="2">Glen with
                                              1 "n".</font></div>
                                          <div><br clear="none">
                                          </div>
                                          <div> <br clear="none">
                                          </div>
                                          <div> <br clear="none">
                                          </div>
                                          <div
                                            style="color:black;font-family:arial,
                                            helvetica;font-size:10pt;">-----Original
                                            Message-----<br clear="none">
                                            From: John Styduhar via Fot
                                            &lt;<a shape="rect"
                                              moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br
                                              clear="none">
                                            To: Glenn Franco &lt;<a
                                              shape="rect"
                                              moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br
                                              clear="none">
                                            Cc: FOT list &lt;<a
                                              shape="rect"
                                              moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br
                                              clear="none">
                                            Sent: Sat, Aug 10, 2019 6:41
                                            pm<br clear="none">
                                            Subject: Re: [Fot] Triumph 4
                                            speed O/D's and Layshaft
                                            bearing failures.<br
                                              clear="none">
                                            <br clear="none">
                                            <div
id="ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818">
                                              <div>
                                                <div dir="ltr">
                                                  <div
class="ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818gmail_default"
style="font-size:small;">Glenn, are you saying that the layshaft bearing
                                                    failure you
                                                    described is more
                                                    prevalent when the
                                                    tranny has an O/D or
                                                    is it a general
                                                    problem?? Thanks</div>
                                                  <div
class="ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818gmail_default"
style="font-size:small;"><br clear="none">
                                                  </div>
                                                </div>
                                                <br clear="none">
                                                <div
class="ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818gmail_quote">
                                                  <div
class="ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818yqt2634990127"
id="ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818yqt95968">
                                                    <div
class="ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818gmail_attr"
                                                      dir="ltr">On Sat,
                                                      Aug 10, 2019 at
                                                      3:52 PM Glenn
                                                      Franco via Fot
                                                      &lt;<a
                                                        shape="rect"
                                                        moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                                                      wrote:<br
                                                        clear="none">
                                                    </div>
                                                    <blockquote
class="ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818gmail_quote"
                                                      style="margin:0px
                                                      0px 0px
0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;">
                                                      <div dir="ltr">
                                                        <div>Just
                                                          finished
                                                          another A Type
                                                          Overdrive
                                                          rebuild this
                                                          afternoon.
                                                          Next one I do
                                                          I'm going to
                                                          insist that
                                                          the owner
                                                          bring a spare
                                                          4 speed for
                                                          parts or maybe
                                                          2.</div>
                                                        <div>I very
                                                          rarely find an
                                                          overdrive
                                                          transmission
                                                          that the
                                                          layshaft
                                                          bearing next
                                                          to 1st that
                                                          hasn't walked
                                                          and tried to
                                                          escape the
                                                          case through
                                                          the thrust
                                                          bearing. I
                                                          have tried in
                                                          vane to remove
                                                          the
                                                          laygear?with
                                                          one that
                                                          ground its way
                                                          into the
                                                          thrust bearing
                                                          and sometimes
                                                          the case. I
                                                          sometimes get
                                                          the laygear
                                                          out but in
                                                          most cases the
                                                          trans case
                                                          with the
                                                          laygear is
                                                          sent to scrap.</div>
                                                        <div>Does anyone
                                                          have a
                                                          solution,
                                                          trick, special
                                                          tool, to ease
                                                          the laygear
                                                          out. The
                                                          normal way is
                                                          to remove the
                                                          small thust
                                                          bearing with a
                                                          magnet so you
                                                          can tilt the
                                                          laygear enough
                                                          to get it out.
                                                          I have even
                                                          once resorted
                                                          to?a " Slugger
                                                          Slide Hammer"
                                                          and chain
                                                          wrapped around
                                                          the laygear to
                                                          get it out.
                                                          Didn't end
                                                          well however.</div>
                                                        <div>I did read
                                                          somewhere that
                                                          someone is
                                                          using a
                                                          tapered roller
                                                          bearing on
                                                          that end which
                                                          would make
                                                          more sense
                                                          than the
                                                          original
                                                          design.</div>
                                                        <div>Please
                                                          advise</div>
                                                        <div>Thanks in
                                                          advance</div>
                                                        <div>Glenn</div>
                                                        <div>TR6, TR250,
                                                          Miata, 47 MG
                                                          TC For Sale,
                                                          73 BMW E10
                                                          2002 being
                                                          restored</div>
                                                      </div>
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