Subject: Re: [Fot] Differential Setup

From: Robert Lang via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 12:53:51 +0000 (UTC)

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Hi,
Thanks for the replies. On my initial setup, the ring gear was too tight against the pinion. I just moved the shims around to get things to free up and the pattern seems to be okay. So, I think, by extension, you need to set bearing preload, then pinion depth via shims on the gear side of the carrier and then backlash via the shims on the smooth side. That's what I did and that's what worked.

The funny thing is, I did this setup YEARS ago with my 4.33 setup (and an Oerlikon gear courtesy of Carsten Conrads) and I ran that setup for over 10 years in autocross. When I pulled it apart to scavenge the Quaife, the gears were perfect, so I musta done something right! But for the life of me I could not remember how I got there. Dumb luck is probably the answer.
Now I gotta get this sucker in a car and run it for some break-in miles..
As for pulling the carrier bearings off, I gotta make a better tool setup. I broke a two-jaw puller in the process and wound up having to cut off two carrier bearings to get the shims installed.

Thanks for the input!
Regards,Bob Lang

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<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-fami=
ly:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><div dir=
=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Hi,</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"fal=
se"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Thanks for the replies=
. On my initial setup, the ring gear was too tight against the pinion. I ju=
st moved the shims around to get things to free up and the pattern seems to=
 be okay. So, I think, by extension, you need to set bearing preload, then =
pinion depth via shims on the gear side of the carrier and then backlash vi=
a the shims on the smooth side. That's what I did and that's what worked.<b=
r></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" d=
ata-setdir=3D"false">The funny thing is, I did this setup YEARS ago with my=
 4.33 setup (and an Oerlikon gear courtesy of Carsten Conrads) and I ran th=
at setup for over 10 years in autocross. When I pulled it apart to scavenge=
 the Quaife, the gears were perfect, so I musta done something right! But f=
or the life of me I could not remember how I got there. Dumb luck is probab=
ly the answer.</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Now I gotta get this sucker in a car and r=
un it for some break-in miles..</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"=
><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">As for pulling the carrie=
r bearings off, I gotta make a better tool setup. I broke a two-jaw puller =
in the process and wound up having to cut off two carrier bearings to get t=
he shims installed.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></d=
iv><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Thanks for the input!</div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"=
false">Regards,</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Bob Lang<br></d=
iv></div></body></html>
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_______________________________________________
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From: Bob Kramer via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 09:05:08 -0500

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Bob,

Have a look at this post. I think it covers the topic very well. I have
used OEM stuff so far and haven't run across this yet.

https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=145363

Bob Kramer

On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 7:54 AM Robert Lang via Fot <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Thanks for the replies. On my initial setup, the ring gear was too tight
> against the pinion. I just moved the shims around to get things to free up
> and the pattern seems to be okay. So, I think, by extension, you need to
> set bearing preload, then pinion depth via shims on the gear side of the
> carrier and then backlash via the shims on the smooth side. That's what I
> did and that's what worked.
>
> The funny thing is, I did this setup YEARS ago with my 4.33 setup (and an
> Oerlikon gear courtesy of Carsten Conrads) and I ran that setup for over 10
> years in autocross. When I pulled it apart to scavenge the Quaife, the
> gears were perfect, so I musta done something right! But for the life of me
> I could not remember how I got there. Dumb luck is probably the answer.
>
> As for pulling the carrier bearings off, I gotta make a better tool setup.
> I broke a two-jaw puller in the process and wound up having to cut off two
> carrier bearings to get the shims installed.
>
> Thanks for the input!
>
> Regards,
> Bob Lang
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Unsubscribe/Manage <http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage>:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Bob,=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Have a look at th=
is post. I think it covers the topic very well. I have used OEM stuff so fa=
r and haven&#39;t run across this yet.</div><div><br></div><a href=3D"https=
://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=3D145363">https://shoptalkforums.com/=
viewtopic.php?t=3D145363</a>=C2=A0<div>=C2=A0<br clear=3D"all"><div><div di=
r=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div=
 dir=3D"ltr">Bob Kramer</div></div></div><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"=
gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at =
7:54 AM Robert Lang via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">fot@a=
utox.team.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty=
le=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);paddi=
ng-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"gmail-m_-410371138562444682yahoo-style-wrap=
" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,sans-seri=
f;font-size:13px"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi,</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div=
 dir=3D"ltr">Thanks for the replies. On my initial setup, the ring gear was=
 too tight against the pinion. I just moved the shims around to get things =
to free up and the pattern seems to be okay. So, I think, by extension, you=
 need to set bearing preload, then pinion depth via shims on the gear side =
of the carrier and then backlash via the shims on the smooth side. That&#39=
;s what I did and that&#39;s what worked.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></d=
iv><div dir=3D"ltr">The funny thing is, I did this setup YEARS ago with my =
4.33 setup (and an Oerlikon gear courtesy of Carsten Conrads) and I ran tha=
t setup for over 10 years in autocross. When I pulled it apart to scavenge =
the Quaife, the gears were perfect, so I musta done something right! But fo=
r the life of me I could not remember how I got there. Dumb luck is probabl=
y the answer.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Now I gotta =
get this sucker in a car and run it for some break-in miles..</div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">As for pulling the carrier bearings off=
, I gotta make a better tool setup. I broke a two-jaw puller in the process=
 and wound up having to cut off two carrier bearings to get the shims insta=
lled.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Thanks for the i=
nput!</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Regards,</div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr">Bob Lang<br></div></div></div>__________________________________=
_____________<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]<=
/a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">=
http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br>
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et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
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</blockquote></div>

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From: Bill Tobin via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 21:51:52 -0400

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Hi Guys, it took me a bit to find this info.

Long ago, in a Galaxie far away ( might have been a Fairlane though. 
Doubt it was a Falcon)?? ((think about it, Ford guys!)) I worked for 
several Chrysler/Plymouth/Dodge garages. Did quite a few diffs

A few years ago I went to an auction of a closing dealership and bought 
some Miller special tools, including a C 293 bearing puller. This puller 
uses different inserts to fit various bearings. The Miller C 293 with 
C293-45 inserts fits the side (carrier) bearings on my TR6. Didn't have 
to pull the pinion bearings, but there should be inserts to do that. If 
memory serves, C 293-37 inserts fit the pinions.?? There's a spacer that 
is needed for the side bearings, C 293-3. One of those could easily be made.

Bear in mind, different bearings use different inserts.

I looked on ebay and found the Miller tools. Some are outlandishly 
priced, but some are reasonable. Worth a look.

Hope this helps.

Cheers, Bill

On 7/22/2019 10:05 AM, Bob Kramer via Fot wrote:
> Bob,
>
> Have a look at this post. I think it covers the topic very well. I 
> have used OEM stuff so far and haven't run across this yet.
>
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 7:54 AM Robert Lang via Fot 
>
>     Hi,
>
>     Thanks for the replies. On my initial setup, the ring gear was too
>     tight against the pinion. I just moved the shims around to get
>     things to free up and the pattern seems to be okay. So, I think,
>     by extension, you need to set bearing preload, then pinion depth
>     via shims on the gear side of the carrier and then backlash via
>     the shims on the smooth side. That's what I did and that's what
>     worked.
>
>     The funny thing is, I did this setup YEARS ago with my 4.33 setup
>     (and an Oerlikon gear courtesy of Carsten Conrads) and I ran that
>     setup for over 10 years in autocross. When I pulled it apart to
>     scavenge the Quaife, the gears were perfect, so I musta done
>     something right! But for the life of me I could not remember how I
>     got there. Dumb luck is probably the answer.
>
>     As for pulling the carrier bearings off, I gotta make a better
>     tool setup. I broke a two-jaw puller in the process and wound up
>     having to cut off two carrier bearings to get the shims installed.
>
>     Thanks for the input!
>
>     Regards,
>     Bob Lang
>     Unsubscribe/Manage
>     <http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage>:
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>
>

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<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <p>Hi Guys, it took me a bit to find this info.</p>
    <p>Long ago, in a Galaxie far away ( might have been a Fairlane
      though. Doubt it was a Falcon)?? ((think about it, Ford guys!)) I
      worked for several Chrysler/Plymouth/Dodge garages. Did quite a
      few diffs</p>
    <p>A few years ago I went to an auction of a closing dealership and
      bought some Miller special tools, including a C 293 bearing
      puller. This puller uses different inserts to fit various
      bearings. The Miller C 293 with C293-45 inserts fits the side
      (carrier) bearings on my TR6. Didn't have to pull the pinion
      bearings, but there should be inserts to do that. If memory
      serves, C 293-37 inserts fit the pinions.?? There's a spacer that
      is needed for the side bearings, C 293-3. One of those could
      easily be made.<br>
    </p>
    <p>Bear in mind, different bearings use different inserts.</p>
    <p>I looked on ebay and found the Miller tools. Some are
      outlandishly priced, but some are reasonable. Worth a look.</p>
    <p>Hope this helps.</p>
    <p>Cheers, Bill<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/22/2019 10:05 AM, Bob Kramer via
      Fot wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CABFvdWtyzLouz03p2FQeHmG=[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div>Bob,??</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Have a look at this post. I think it covers the topic very
          well. I have used OEM stuff so far and haven't run across this
          yet.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <a href="https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=145363"
          moz-do-not-send="true">https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=145363</a>??
        <div>??<br clear="all">
          <div>
            <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"
              data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
              <div dir="ltr">Bob Kramer</div>
            </div>
          </div>
          <br>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 7:54
          AM Robert Lang via Fot &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]"
            moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
          0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
          <div>
            <div class="gmail-m_-410371138562444682yahoo-style-wrap"
              style="font-family:&quot;Helvetica
              Neue&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
              <div dir="ltr">Hi,</div>
              <div dir="ltr"><br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">Thanks for the replies. On my initial
                setup, the ring gear was too tight against the pinion. I
                just moved the shims around to get things to free up and
                the pattern seems to be okay. So, I think, by extension,
                you need to set bearing preload, then pinion depth via
                shims on the gear side of the carrier and then backlash
                via the shims on the smooth side. That's what I did and
                that's what worked.<br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr"><br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">The funny thing is, I did this setup YEARS
                ago with my 4.33 setup (and an Oerlikon gear courtesy of
                Carsten Conrads) and I ran that setup for over 10 years
                in autocross. When I pulled it apart to scavenge the
                Quaife, the gears were perfect, so I musta done
                something right! But for the life of me I could not
                remember how I got there. Dumb luck is probably the
                answer.</div>
              <div dir="ltr"><br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">Now I gotta get this sucker in a car and
                run it for some break-in miles..</div>
              <div dir="ltr"><br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">As for pulling the carrier bearings off, I
                gotta make a better tool setup. I broke a two-jaw puller
                in the process and wound up having to cut off two
                carrier bearings to get the shims installed.<br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr"><br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">Thanks for the input!</div>
              <div dir="ltr"><br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">Regards,</div>
              <div dir="ltr">Bob Lang<br>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
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From: Mark J Bradakis via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 08:07:13 -0600

On 7/24/19 7:51 PM, Bill Tobin via Fot wrote:
> Doubt it was a Falcon)?? ((think about it, Ford guys!))
>

Are you positively sure it wasn't a Falcon?  The Millennium package?

Seriously, proper tools for both differential and transmission work 
really make the job a lot easier.  I will certainly check out the Miller 
tools.

mjb.

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