Subject: [Fot] (no subject)

From: "Mathieu W. Huovinen via Fot" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2019 23:38:36 +0000 (UTC)

--===============7518767413550675751==
	boundary="----=_Part_4313575_567156394.1563665916800"

------=_Part_4313575_567156394.1563665916800
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Squaring up the pads? Please tell me more, I'm still learning. Thanks!

-Marhieu

------=_Part_4313575_567156394.1563665916800
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<p dir="ltr"></p>
<p dir="ltr">Squaring up the pads? Please tell me more, I'm still learning. Thanks!</p>
<p dir="ltr">-Marhieu</p>
<div class="device_aol_et_org_dt_dd_quote"></div>
------=_Part_4313575_567156394.1563665916800--

--===============7518767413550675751==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

_______________________________________________
[email-masked]

http://www.fot-racing.com

Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot

--===============7518767413550675751==--

---

From: Bill Tobin via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2019 22:35:21 -0400

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--===============8638987999149092691==
 boundary="------------909C42AC5522FCBF738D615C"
Content-Language: en-US

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------909C42AC5522FCBF738D615C
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi All, I use the same setup as Phil, with good results.

Squaring the pads is in one of Kas' books. Its making the pad surface 
flat. He said to use a drill press to do it.

I'm spoiled, I use a surface grinder with a magnetic chuck; chuck the 
pad in place, run the grinding wheel down until it touches , and run the 
pad back and forth under the wheel until flat and square.

Nice to have equipment! Anyone need an engine lathe? I just saved one 
from the scrapper. I'll clean it up and sell it. I hate to see equipment 
like that scrapped.

Cheers, Bill

On 7/20/2019 7:38 PM, Mathieu W. Huovinen via Fot wrote:
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>
>

--------------909C42AC5522FCBF738D615C
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <p>Hi All, I use the same setup as Phil, with good results.</p>
    <p>Squaring the pads is in one of Kas' books. Its making the pad
      surface flat. He said to use a drill press to do it.</p>
    <p>I'm spoiled, I use a surface grinder with a magnetic chuck; chuck
      the pad in place, run the grinding wheel down until it touches ,
      and run the pad back and forth under the wheel until flat and
      square.</p>
    <p>Nice to have equipment! Anyone need an engine lathe? I just saved
      one from the scrapper. I'll clean it up and sell it. I hate to see
      equipment like that scrapped.</p>
    <p>Cheers, Bill<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/20/2019 7:38 PM, Mathieu W.
      Huovinen via Fot wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <p dir="ltr">Squaring up the pads? Please tell me more, I'm still
        learning. Thanks!</p>
      <p dir="ltr">-Marhieu</p>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>

<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.fot-racing.com">http://www.fot-racing.com</a>

Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://autox.team.net/archive">http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a>

</pre>
    </blockquote>
  </body>
</html>

--------------909C42AC5522FCBF738D615C--

--===============8638987999149092691==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

--===============8638987999149092691==--

---

From: marty via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2019 13:28:37 +0000

--===============7604456763887250787==
Content-Language: en-US
	boundary="_000_MN2PR12MB3936C560E7775D790F8DFC9FBAC50MN2PR12MB3936namp_"

--_000_MN2PR12MB3936C560E7775D790F8DFC9FBAC50MN2PR12MB3936namp_
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

--_000_MN2PR12MB3936C560E7775D790F8DFC9FBAC50MN2PR12MB3936namp_
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

--_000_MN2PR12MB3936C560E7775D790F8DFC9FBAC50MN2PR12MB3936namp_--

--===============7604456763887250787==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

--===============7604456763887250787==--

---

From: ralph hansen via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2019 14:33:45 +0000 (UTC)

--===============8049551629095560201==
	boundary="----=_Part_2670544_891554346.1563719625994"

------=_Part_2670544_891554346.1563719625994
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 not to rain on the parade but, are you turning the rotors each time to make sure they are square also? if not, you now have unmatched surfaces - in the old days with good metal rotors I could see a slight advantage, these days with the good pads we get, and soft rotors they wear together, you might actually get a very slight increase in surface contact due to the angles and dangles - and, as you machine the rotors you lose mass, the all important heat sink that makes brakes work....
    On Saturday, July 20, 2019, 07:19:46 PM CDT, Mathieu W. Huovinen via Fot <[email-masked]> wrote:  

-Marhieu

  
------=_Part_2670544_891554346.1563719625994
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<html><head></head><body><div class="ydp941a9bf5yahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family: Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"></div><div class="ydp941a9bf5yahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family: Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">
        </div><div class="ydp941a9bf5yahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family: Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;" dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">not to rain on the parade but, are you turning the rotors each time to make sure they are square also? if not, you now have unmatched surfaces - in the old days with good metal rotors I could see a slight advantage, these days with the good pads we get, and soft rotors they wear together, you might actually get a very slight increase in surface contact due to the angles and dangles - and, as you machine the rotors you lose mass, the all important heat sink that makes brakes work....</div><div class="ydp941a9bf5yahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family: Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"><br></div><div class="ydp941a9bf5yahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family: Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">
        
        </div><div class="ydpfe57025dyahoo_quoted" id="ydpfe57025dyahoo_quoted_4630465933">
            <div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
                
                <div>
                    On Saturday, July 20, 2019, 07:19:46 PM CDT, Mathieu W. Huovinen via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><div id="ydpfe57025dyiv9411600540"><p dir="ltr"></p>
<p dir="ltr">Squaring up the pads? Please tell me more, I'm still learning. Thanks!</p>
<p dir="ltr">-Marhieu</p>
<div class="ydpfe57025dyiv9411600540device_aol_et_org_dt_dd_quote"></div></div>_______________________________________________<br><a href="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[email-masked]</a><br><br><a href="http://www.fot-racing.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br><br>Donate: <a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Archive: <a href="http://autox.team.net/archive " target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://autox.team.net/archive </a><a href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a><br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a><br><br><br></div>
            </div>
        </div></body></html>
------=_Part_2670544_891554346.1563719625994--

--===============8049551629095560201==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

--===============8049551629095560201==--

---

From: Phil Gott via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2019 15:27:19 -0400

--===============6051607969550578458==
	boundary=Apple-Mail-C661773A-4BB0-4913-9641-8C61D2512540
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

--Apple-Mail-C661773A-4BB0-4913-9641-8C61D2512540
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The pads wear unevenly both radially and a bit circumferentially due to diff=
erent surface speeds and friction forces. As the pads wear unevenly they =E2=
=80=9Ccock=E2=80=9D in the caliper and bind up. The more wear, the greater t=
he binding.=20
Using some sort of a device (surface grinder, drill press etc with a good du=
st collector and mask for the operator) to make the face of the friction mat=
erial parallel to the backing plate solves this issue.
Yes, this does change the surface of the pad presented to the rotor. I do no=
t change rotors as they are in good shape. Any small to microscopic irregula=
rities between the two quickly get dealt with during the first session out a=
fter squaring the pads. This would be the same as putting new pads on the ca=
r with the old rotors. Just treat the first few laps as if you are bedding i=
n new brakes, which to some extent you are (except for temperature effects).=

Different from a street machine where rust and grit take their toll in the r=
otor surface.
Phil Gott
114 TR4A

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 21, 2019, at 10:33 AM, ralph hansen via Fot <[email-masked]> wr=
ote:
>=20
> not to rain on the parade but, are you turning the rotors each time to mak=
e sure they are square also? if not, you now have unmatched surfaces - in th=
e old days with good metal rotors I could see a slight advantage, these days=
 with the good pads we get, and soft rotors they wear together, you might ac=
tually get a very slight increase in surface contact due to the angles and d=
angles - and, as you machine the rotors you lose mass, the all important hea=
t sink that makes brakes work....
>=20
> On Saturday, July 20, 2019, 07:19:46 PM CDT, Mathieu W. Huovinen via Fot <=
[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/quikrx@yahoo=
.com
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/vfracing@aol=
.com
>=20
>=20

--Apple-Mail-C661773A-4BB0-4913-9641-8C61D2512540
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">The pads wear unevenly both radially and a b=
it circumferentially due to different surface speeds and friction forces. As=
 the pads wear unevenly they =E2=80=9Ccock=E2=80=9D in the caliper and bind u=
p. The more wear, the greater the binding.&nbsp;<div>Using some sort of a de=
vice (surface grinder, drill press etc with a good dust collector and mask f=
or the operator) to make the face of the friction material parallel to the b=
acking plate solves this issue.</div><div>Yes, this does change the surface o=
f the pad presented to the rotor. I do not change rotors as they are in good=
 shape. Any small to microscopic irregularities between the two quickly get d=
ealt with during the first session out after squaring the pads. This would b=
e the same as putting new pads on the car with the old rotors. Just treat th=
e first few laps as if you are bedding in new brakes, which to some extent y=
ou are (except for temperature effects).</div><div>Different from a street m=
achine where rust and grit take their toll in the rotor surface.</div><div>P=
hil Gott</div><div>114 TR4A<br><br><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"ltr=
">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Jul 21, 2019, at 10:33 AM=
, ralph hansen via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
eam.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"lt=
r"><div class=3D"ydp941a9bf5yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family: Helvetic=
a Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"></div><div class=3D"ydp=
941a9bf5yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Ari=
al,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">
        </div><div class=3D"ydp941a9bf5yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-famil=
y: Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;" dir=3D"ltr" d=
ata-setdir=3D"false">not to rain on the parade but, are you turning the roto=
rs each time to make sure they are square also? if not, you now have unmatch=
ed surfaces - in the old days with good metal rotors I could see a slight ad=
vantage, these days with the good pads we get, and soft rotors they wear tog=
ether, you might actually get a very slight increase in surface contact due t=
o the angles and dangles - and, as you machine the rotors you lose mass, the=
 all important heat sink that makes brakes work....</div><div class=3D"ydp94=
1a9bf5yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial=
,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"><br></div><div class=3D"ydp941a9bf5yahoo-styl=
e-wrap" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; fon=
t-size: 13px;">
       =20
        </div><div class=3D"ydpfe57025dyahoo_quoted" id=3D"ydpfe57025dyahoo_=
quoted_4630465933">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sa=
ns-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
                <div>
                    On Saturday, July 20, 2019, 07:19:46 PM CDT, Mathieu W. H=
uovinen via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
</a>&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><div id=3D"ydpfe57025dyiv9411600540"><p dir=3D"ltr"></p=
<p dir=3D"ltr">Squaring up the pads? Please tell me more, I'm still learning=
. Thanks!</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">-Marhieu</p>
<div class=3D"ydpfe57025dyiv9411600540device_aol_et_org_dt_dd_quote"></div><=
/div>_______________________________________________<br><a href=3D"mailto:fo=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow">[email-masked]</a><=
br><br><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofoll=
ow">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.=
net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow">http://www.team.net/dona=
te.html</a><br>Archive: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive " target=3D=
"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow">http://autox.team.net/archive </a><a href=3D"http:=
//www.team.net/pipermail/fot" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow">http://www.=
team.net/pipermail/fot</a><br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.te=
am.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofoll=
ow">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a><br><br><b=
r></div>
            </div>
        </div></div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span><a hre=
f=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a></span><br><span></spa=
n><br><span><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com">http://www.fot-racing.com<=
/a></span><br><span></span><br><span>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/=
donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a></span><br><span>Archive: <a=
 href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive">http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a=
 href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fo=
t</a></span><br><span>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/m=
ailman/options/fot/[email-masked]">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/f=
ot/[email-masked]</a></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br></div></=
blockquote></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-C661773A-4BB0-4913-9641-8C61D2512540--

--===============6051607969550578458==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

--===============6051607969550578458==--

---

From: Mike Harmuth via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2019 20:16:51 -0400

--===============8999039348587451637==

--0000000000001668f2058e39ffe6

--0000000000001668ef058e39ffe5
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Here's how we square the tires on good old Merican iron.

On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 9:29 AM marty via Fot <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Huh, finally found something I can use my surface grinder for. =F0=9F=99=
=82
> Probably don't want to breath that stuff though.
>
> Marty
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Fot <[email-masked]> on behalf of Bill Tobin via Fot =
<
> [email-masked]>
> *Sent:* Saturday, July 20, 2019 10:35 PM
> *To:* [email-masked] <[email-masked]>
> *Subject:* Re: [Fot] (no subject)
>
>
> I'm spoiled, I use a surface grinder with a magnetic chuck; chuck the pad
> in place, run the grinding wheel down until it touches , and run the pad
> back and forth under the wheel until flat and square.
>
> Nice to have equipment! Anyone need an engine lathe? I just saved one fro=
m
> the scrapper. I'll clean it up and sell it. I hate to see equipment like
> that scrapped.
>
> Cheers, Bill
> [email-masked]
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/william.tob=
[email-masked]
> Unsubscribe/Manage <http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage>:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>
>
>

--0000000000001668ef058e39ffe5
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Here&#39;s how we square the tires on good old Merican iro=
n.<div><div><img src=3D"cid:ii_jydn3uzj0" alt=3D"Grinding the tires.JPG" wi=
dth=3D"531" height=3D"398"><br></div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 9:29 AM =
marty via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]<=
/a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0=
px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">

<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<span>Huh, finally found something I can use my surface grinder for. <span =
title=3D":slight_smile:" id=3D"gmail-m_4633401346988823877=F0=9F=99=82">
=F0=9F=99=82</span> Probably don&#39;t want to breath that stuff though.</s=
pan></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<span><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<span>Marty</span></div>
<div>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_4633401346988823877appendonsend"></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<br>
</div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id=3D"gmail-m_4633401346988823877divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font colo=
r=3D"#000000" face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From=
:</b> Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blan=
k">[email-masked]</a>&gt; on behalf of Bill Tobin via Fot &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</=
a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, July 20, 2019 10:35 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">fot@auto=
x.team.net</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] (no subject)</font>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<p>Hi All, I use the same setup as Phil, with good results.</p>
<p>Squaring the pads is in one of Kas&#39; books. Its making the pad surfac=
e flat. He said to use a drill press to do it.</p>
<p>I&#39;m spoiled, I use a surface grinder with a magnetic chuck; chuck th=
e pad in place, run the grinding wheel down until it touches , and run the =
pad back and forth under the wheel until flat and square.</p>
<p>Nice to have equipment! Anyone need an engine lathe? I just saved one fr=
om the scrapper. I&#39;ll clean it up and sell it. I hate to see equipment =
like that scrapped.</p>
<p>Cheers, Bill<br>
</p>
<div class=3D"gmail-m_4633401346988823877x_moz-cite-prefix">On 7/20/2019 7:=
38 PM, Mathieu W. Huovinen via Fot wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<p dir=3D"ltr">Squaring up the pads? Please tell me more, I&#39;m still lea=
rning. Thanks!</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">-Marhieu</p>
<br>
<fieldset class=3D"gmail-m_4633401346988823877x_mimeAttachmentHeader"></fie=
ldset>
<pre class=3D"gmail-m_4633401346988823877x_moz-quote-pre">_________________=
______________________________
<a class=3D"gmail-m_4633401346988823877x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"=
mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>

<a class=3D"gmail-m_4633401346988823877x_moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"htt=
p://www.fot-racing.com" target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a>

f=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net=
/donate.html</a>
Archive: <a class=3D"gmail-m_4633401346988823877x_moz-txt-link-freetext" hr=
ef=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.ne=
t/archive</a> <a class=3D"gmail-m_4633401346988823877x_moz-txt-link-freetex=
t" href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot" target=3D"_blank">http://www.=
team.net/pipermail/fot</a>
reetext" href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/william.tobin31@=
verizon.net" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/wi=
[email-masked]</a>

</pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>

_______________________________________________<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]<=
/a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">=
http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br>
<br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a href=3D"http://www.team.n=
et/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tp://www.team.net/pipermail/fot<br>
t/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team=
.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>

--0000000000001668ef058e39ffe5--

--0000000000001668f2058e39ffe6
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Grinding the tires.JPG"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-ID: <ii_jydn3uzj0>

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
--0000000000001668f2058e39ffe6--

--===============8999039348587451637==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

--===============8999039348587451637==--

---

From: DAVE HOGYE via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2019 21:10:50 -0700 (PDT)

--===============1187550634414577198==
	boundary="----=_Part_856215_897220631.1563768650579"

------=_Part_856215_897220631.1563768650579
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The more clearance between the slot in the caliper and the pad backing plat=
e the quicker this becomes a problem.   I've measured .010-.012" total clea=
rance on an NOS street pad and as much as .070" on a set of Carbotech pads.=
  The edges of the Carbotech backing plates looked to have been, (were defi=
nitely), ground off on and belt sander or grinder from the factory, right d=
own to the edge of the friction pad and they were out of square by .035".  =
The side of the pad was making contact with the caliper slot.  This immedia=
tely caused problems with the caliper pistons cocking severely.  The piston=
s even left a witness mark in the bore of the calipers.  Not good.  The Car=
botech pads had .070" wear diagonally across the friction surface in a coup=
le of weekends of racing.  Unfortunately, Carbotech made many excuses and d=
enials when I brought this to their attention. =20

If the pad backing plate is held close in the slot, the piston cannot get c=
ocked as severely under hard braking.  Squaring of pad surface may still be=
 desirable at some point, but pay close attention between of the width of t=
he backing plate and the caliper slot. =20

I have found Hawk pads to be made with as close a clearance as factory pads=
 and the same dimension on every order.  No variations.  The Hawk pads also=
 have the same shape as factory pads, more like a pie cut.  Wider at the ou=
ter edge.  This helps compensates for rotor surface speed and reduces uneve=
n wear.=20

I do like the feel of the Carbotechs, but I cannot rely on their quality co=
ntrol.

As you apply the brakes, the piston extends.  If the pad can move greatly w=
ithin the caliper slot, the piston with take the side load, not the backing=
 plate of the pad as it should.  If the backing plate is not square, the pa=
d will also rotate a little.  Definitely not good.

Beware,

Dave H.

> On July 21, 2019 at 12:27 PM Phil Gott via Fot <[email-masked]> wrote=
:
>=20
>     The pads wear unevenly both radially and a bit circumferentially due =
to different surface speeds and friction forces. As the pads wear unevenly =
they =E2=80=9Ccock=E2=80=9D in the caliper and bind up. The more wear, the =
greater the binding.=20
>     Using some sort of a device (surface grinder, drill press etc with a =
good dust collector and mask for the operator) to make the face of the fric=
tion material parallel to the backing plate solves this issue.
>     Yes, this does change the surface of the pad presented to the rotor. =
I do not change rotors as they are in good shape. Any small to microscopic =
irregularities between the two quickly get dealt with during the first sess=
ion out after squaring the pads. This would be the same as putting new pads=
 on the car with the old rotors. Just treat the first few laps as if you ar=
e bedding in new brakes, which to some extent you are (except for temperatu=
re effects).
>     Different from a street machine where rust and grit take their toll i=
n the rotor surface.
>     Phil Gott
>     114 TR4A
>=20
>     Sent from my iPhone
>=20
>     On Jul 21, 2019, at 10:33 AM, ralph hansen via Fot < [email-masked]=
et mailto:[email-masked] > wrote:
>=20
>=20
>         > >         =20
> >         =20
> >         not to rain on the parade but, are you turning the rotors each =
time to make sure they are square also? if not, you now have unmatched surf=
aces - in the old days with good metal rotors I could see a slight advantag=
e, these days with the good pads we get, and soft rotors they wear together=
, you might actually get a very slight increase in surface contact due to t=
he angles and dangles - and, as you machine the rotors you lose mass, the a=
ll important heat sink that makes brakes work....
> >=20
> >         =20
> >         On Saturday, July 20, 2019, 07:19:46 PM CDT, Mathieu W. Huovine=
n via Fot < [email-masked] mailto:[email-masked] > wrote:
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >         =20
> >=20
> >         Squaring up the pads? Please tell me more, I'm still learning. =
Thanks!
> >         [email-masked] mailto:[email-masked]
> >=20
> >         Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/ar=
chive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> >         Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/q=
[email-masked]
> >         [email-masked] mailto:[email-masked]
> >=20
> >         Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipe=
rmail/fot
> >         Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/v=
[email-masked]

=20

>     Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/=
fot
>     Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/dlhogye=
@comcast.net

=20

------=_Part_856215_897220631.1563768650579
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE html>
<html><head>
    <meta charset=3D"UTF-8">
</head><body><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sa=
ns-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">The more clearance between the slot in t=
he caliper and the pad backing plate the quicker this becomes a problem.&#1=
60; &#160;I&#39;ve measured .010-.012&#34; total clearance on an NOS street=
 pad and as much as .070&#34; on a set of Carbotech pads.&#160; The edges o=
f the Carbotech backing plates looked to have been, (were definitely), grou=
nd off on and belt sander or grinder from the factory, right down to the ed=
ge of the friction pad and they were out of square by .035&#34;.&#160; The =
side of the pad was making contact with the caliper slot.&#160; This immedi=
ately caused problems with the caliper pistons cocking severely.&#160; The =
pistons even left a witness mark in the bore of the calipers.&#160; Not goo=
d.&#160; The Carbotech pads had .070&#34; wear diagonally across the fricti=
on surface in a couple of weekends of racing.&#160; Unfortunately, Carbotec=
h made many excuses and denials when I brought this to their attention.&#16=
0;&#160;</p><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, san=
s-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">If the pad backing plate is held close in=
 the slot, the piston cannot get cocked as severely under hard braking.&#16=
0; Squaring of pad surface may still be desirable at some point, but pay cl=
ose attention between of the width of the backing plate and the caliper slo=
t.&#160;&#160;</p><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, aria=
l, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">I have found Hawk pads to be made w=
ith as close a clearance as factory pads and the same dimension on every or=
der.&#160; No variations.&#160; The Hawk pads also have the same shape as f=
actory pads, more like a pie cut.&#160; Wider at the outer edge.&#160; This=
 helps compensates for rotor surface speed and reduces uneven wear.&#160;</=
p><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; c=
olor: rgb(51, 51, 51);">I do like the feel of the Carbotechs, but I cannot =
rely on their quality control.</p><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family:=
 helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">As you apply the br=
akes, the piston extends.&#160; If the pad can move greatly within the cali=
per slot, the piston with take the side load, not the backing plate of the =
pad as it should.&#160; If the backing plate is not square, the pad will al=
so rotate a little.&#160; Definitely not good.</p><p style=3D"font-size: 12=
pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">Bew=
are,</p><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-se=
rif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">Dave H.</p><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-=
family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"><br></p><blo=
ckquote type=3D"cite">On July 21, 2019 at 12:27 PM Phil Gott via Fot &#60;f=
[email-masked]&#62; wrote: <br> <br>The pads wear unevenly both radially=
 and a bit circumferentially due to different surface speeds and friction f=
orces. As the pads wear unevenly they &#8220;cock&#8221; in the caliper and=
 bind up. The more wear, the greater the binding.&#160;<div>Using some sort=
 of a device (surface grinder, drill press etc with a good dust collector a=
nd mask for the operator) to make the face of the friction material paralle=
l to the backing plate solves this issue.</div><div>Yes, this does change t=
he surface of the pad presented to the rotor. I do not change rotors as the=
y are in good shape. Any small to microscopic irregularities between the tw=
o quickly get dealt with during the first session out after squaring the pa=
ds. This would be the same as putting new pads on the car with the old roto=
rs. Just treat the first few laps as if you are bedding in new brakes, whic=
h to some extent you are (except for temperature effects).</div><div>Differ=
ent from a street machine where rust and grit take their toll in the rotor =
surface.</div><div>Phil Gott</div><div>114 TR4A <br> <br><div id=3D"ox-aa14=
149620-AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><br>On Jul 21, 2019, at 10:33 AM, ralph hansen via Fot &#60; <a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&#62; wrote: <br> <br>=
</div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"ox-aa1414962=
0-ydp941a9bf5yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica Neue,Helveti=
ca,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">&#160;<br></div><div class=3D"ox-aa1=
4149620-ydp941a9bf5yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica Neue,H=
elvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">&#160;<br></div><div class=3D"=
ox-aa14149620-ydp941a9bf5yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica =
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;" dir=3D"ltr">not to rain =
on the parade but, are you turning the rotors each time to make sure they a=
re square also? if not, you now have unmatched surfaces - in the old days w=
ith good metal rotors I could see a slight advantage, these days with the g=
ood pads we get, and soft rotors they wear together, you might actually get=
 a very slight increase in surface contact due to the angles and dangles - =
and, as you machine the rotors you lose mass, the all important heat sink t=
hat makes brakes work....</div><div class=3D"ox-aa14149620-ydp941a9bf5yahoo=
-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-seri=
f; font-size: 13px;"><br></div><div class=3D"ox-aa14149620-ydp941a9bf5yahoo=
-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-seri=
f; font-size: 13px;">&#160;<br></div><div class=3D"ox-aa14149620-ydpfe57025=
dyahoo_quoted" id=3D"ox-aa14149620-ydpfe57025dyahoo_quoted_4630465933"><div=
 style=3D"font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font=
-size: 13px; color: #26282a;"><div>On Saturday, July 20, 2019, 07:19:46 PM =
CDT, Mathieu W. Huovinen via Fot &#60; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
">[email-masked]</a>&#62; wrote:</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><di=
v><p>&#160;<br></p><p>Squaring up the pads? Please tell me more, I&#39;m st=
ill learning. Thanks!</p><p>-Marhieu</p><div class=3D"ox-aa14149620-ydpfe57=
025dyiv9411600540device_aol_et_org_dt_dd_quote">&#160;<br></div>___________=
____________________________________ <br> <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked].=
net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">[email-masked]</a> <br> <br> <a=
 href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">http=
://www.fot-racing.com</a> <br> <br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/d=
onate.html" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">http://www.team.net/donate.h=
tml</a> <br>Archive: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" target=3D"_b=
lank" rel=3D"noopener">http://autox.team.net/archive </a> <a href=3D"http:/=
/www.team.net/pipermail/fot" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">http://www.=
team.net/pipermail/fot</a> <br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.=
team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noo=
pener">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a> <br> =
<br> <br></div></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><di=
v dir=3D"ltr">_______________________________________________<br> <a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> <br> <br> <a href=3D"=
http://www.fot-racing.com">http://www.fot-racing.com</a> <br> <br> Donate: =
<a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html=
</a> <br> Archive: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive">http://autox.t=
eam.net/archive</a> <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot">http://ww=
w.team.net/pipermail/fot</a> <br> Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://aut=
ox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]">http://autox.team.net/mai=
lman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a> <br> <br> <br></div></blockquote></di=
v></blockquote><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sa=
ns-serif; color: #333333;" class=3D"default-style"><br>&#160;</p><blockquot=
e type=3D"cite">_______________________________________________ <br>fot@aut=
ox.team.net <br> <br>http://www.fot-racing.com <br> <br>Donate: http://www.=
team.net/donate.html <br>Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.=
team.net/pipermail/fot <br>Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailma=
n/options/fot/[email-masked] <br> <br> <br></blockquote><p style=3D"fo=
nt-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;" cl=
ass=3D"default-style"><br>&#160;</p></body></html>
=20
------=_Part_856215_897220631.1563768650579--

--===============1187550634414577198==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

--===============1187550634414577198==--

---

From: Phil Gott via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 17:41:55 -0400

--===============0114901146452819870==
	boundary=Apple-Mail-2BD59B50-5070-4588-BF1C-8DC97CEDD615
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

--Apple-Mail-2BD59B50-5070-4588-BF1C-8DC97CEDD615
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I=E2=80=99ve been using Porterfield R4 with good results. Easy to modulate, w=
ork reasonably well when cold (safe pace lap) and last about 5-6 events with=
 squaring every two races.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 24, 2019, at 4:22 PM, <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]>=
 wrote:
>=20
> Maybe that explains the high wear rate that we are seeing lately on the Ca=
rbotech CT2-XP10 brake pads we are using.  We used to get almost 4 or 5 race=
 weekends out of a set of pads.  Now it=E2=80=99s like one and half race wee=
kends.  What is the wear rate for others that are using this pad?
> =20
> Maybe I will have to go back to the Hawk HB-169E.560 Blue/9012 compound br=
ake pads that we were using.  Anyone have other suggestions?  We like the st=
opping power, fast warm up and feel of the Carbotech pads but the wear is ge=
tting a little pricey at about $200 a set.
> =20
> Tim and Ryan Murphy
> #317 TR4 BRG
> =20
> From: Fot <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of DAVE HOGYE via Fot
> Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 11:11 PM
> To: Phil Gott <[email-masked]>; Phil Gott via Fot <[email-masked]>; r=
alph hansen <[email-masked]>
> Subject: Re: [Fot] squaring pads
> =20
> The more clearance between the slot in the caliper and the pad backing pla=
te the quicker this becomes a problem.   I've measured .010-.012" total clea=
rance on an NOS street pad and as much as .070" on a set of Carbotech pads. =
 The edges of the Carbotech backing plates looked to have been, (were defini=
tely), ground off on and belt sander or grinder from the factory, right down=
 to the edge of the friction pad and they were out of square by .035".  The s=
ide of the pad was making contact with the caliper slot.  This immediately c=
aused problems with the caliper pistons cocking severely.  The pistons even l=
eft a witness mark in the bore of the calipers.  Not good.  The Carbotech pa=
ds had .070" wear diagonally across the friction surface in a couple of week=
ends of racing.  Unfortunately, Carbotech made many excuses and denials when=
 I brought this to their attention. =20
> If the pad backing plate is held close in the slot, the piston cannot get c=
ocked as severely under hard braking.  Squaring of pad surface may still be d=
esirable at some point, but pay close attention between of the width of the b=
acking plate and the caliper slot. =20
>=20
> I have found Hawk pads to be made with as close a clearance as factory pad=
s and the same dimension on every order.  No variations.  The Hawk pads also=
 have the same shape as factory pads, more like a pie cut.  Wider at the out=
er edge.  This helps compensates for rotor surface speed and reduces uneven w=
ear.=20
>=20
> I do like the feel of the Carbotechs, but I cannot rely on their quality c=
ontrol.
> As you apply the brakes, the piston extends.  If the pad can move greatly w=
ithin the caliper slot, the piston with take the side load, not the backing p=
late of the pad as it should.  If the backing plate is not square, the pad w=
ill also rotate a little.  Definitely not good.
>=20
> Beware,
>=20
> Dave H.
>=20
> =20
>=20
> On July 21, 2019 at 12:27 PM Phil Gott via Fot <[email-masked]> wrote:=
=20
>=20
> The pads wear unevenly both radially and a bit circumferentially due to di=
fferent surface speeds and friction forces. As the pads wear unevenly they =E2=
=80=9Ccock=E2=80=9D in the caliper and bind up. The more wear, the greater t=
he binding.=20
> Using some sort of a device (surface grinder, drill press etc with a good d=
ust collector and mask for the operator) to make the face of the friction ma=
terial parallel to the backing plate solves this issue.
> Yes, this does change the surface of the pad presented to the rotor. I do n=
ot change rotors as they are in good shape. Any small to microscopic irregul=
arities between the two quickly get dealt with during the first session out a=
fter squaring the pads. This would be the same as putting new pads on the ca=
r with the old rotors. Just treat the first few laps as if you are bedding i=
n new brakes, which to some extent you are (except for temperature effects).=

> Different from a street machine where rust and grit take their toll in the=
 rotor surface.
> Phil Gott
> 114 TR4A
>=20
> Sent from my iPhone
>=20
> On Jul 21, 2019, at 10:33 AM, ralph hansen via Fot < [email-masked]> w=
 [email-masked]> wrote:
> _______________________________________________=20
> [email-masked]=20
>=20
> http://www.fot-racing.com=20
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html=20
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot=20=

> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/quikrx@yahoo=
.com=20
> [email-masked]=20
> http://www.fot-racing.com=20
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html=20
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot=20=

> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/vfracing@aol=
.com=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> =20
>=20
> _______________________________________________=20
> [email-masked]=20
>=20
> http://www.fot-racing.com=20
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html=20
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot=20=

> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/dlhogye@comc=
ast.net=20

--Apple-Mail-2BD59B50-5070-4588-BF1C-8DC97CEDD615
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">I=E2=80=99ve been using Porterfield R4 with=
 good results. Easy to modulate, work reasonably well when cold (safe pace l=
ap) and last about 5-6 events with squaring every two races.<br><br><div id=3D=
"AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><=
br>On Jul 24, 2019, at 4:22 PM, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">tim=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div=
 dir=3D"ltr"><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=
=3Dutf-8"><meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Word 15 (filtered me=
dium)"><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
	{font-family:Helvetica;
	panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;}
@font-face
	{font-family:"Cambria Math";
	panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
	{font-family:Calibri;
	panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
	{margin:0in;
	margin-bottom:.0001pt;
	font-size:11.0pt;
	font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
	{mso-style-priority:99;
	color:blue;
	text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
	{mso-style-priority:99;
	color:purple;
	text-decoration:underline;}
p.msonormal0, li.msonormal0, div.msonormal0
	{mso-style-name:msonormal;
	mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
	margin-right:0in;
	mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
	margin-left:0in;
	font-size:11.0pt;
	font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
p.default-style, li.default-style, div.default-style
	{mso-style-name:default-style;
	mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
	margin-right:0in;
	mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
	margin-left:0in;
	font-size:11.0pt;
	font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
span.EmailStyle21
	{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
	font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
	color:windowtext;}
.MsoChpDefault
	{mso-style-type:export-only;
	font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
	{size:8.5in 11.0in;
	margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
	{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div class=3D"WordSection1"><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal">Maybe that explains the high wear rate that we are seeing lately on=
 the Carbotech CT2-XP10 brake pads we are using.&nbsp; We used to get almost=
 4 or 5 race weekends out of a set of pads.&nbsp; Now it=E2=80=99s like one a=
nd half race weekends.&nbsp; What is the wear rate for others that are using=
 this pad?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal">Maybe I will have to go back to the Hawk HB-169E.560 Blue/90=
12 compound brake pads that we were using.&nbsp; Anyone have other suggestio=
ns?&nbsp; We like the stopping power, fast warm up and feel of the Carbotech=
 pads but the wear is getting a little pricey at about $200 a set.<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Tim a=
nd Ryan Murphy<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">#317 TR4 BRG<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div style=3D"border:non=
e;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><b>From:</b> Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">fo=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>DAVE HOGYE via Fot<br><=
b>Sent:</b> Sunday, July 21, 2019 11:11 PM<br><b>To:</b> Phil Gott &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; Phil Gott via Fot &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; ralph h=
ansen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b=
>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] squaring pads<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#333333">The more clearance betwee=
n the slot in the caliper and the pad backing plate the quicker this becomes=
 a problem.&nbsp; &nbsp;I've measured .010-.012" total clearance on an NOS s=
treet pad and as much as .070" on a set of Carbotech pads.&nbsp; The edges o=
f the Carbotech backing plates looked to have been, (were definitely), groun=
d off on and belt sander or grinder from the factory, right down to the edge=
 of the friction pad and they were out of square by .035".&nbsp; The side of=
 the pad was making contact with the caliper slot.&nbsp; This immediately ca=
used problems with the caliper pistons cocking severely.&nbsp; The pistons e=
ven left a witness mark in the bore of the calipers.&nbsp; Not good.&nbsp; T=
he Carbotech pads had .070" wear diagonally across the friction surface in a=
 couple of weekends of racing.&nbsp; Unfortunately, Carbotech made many excu=
ses and denials when I brought this to their attention.&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:=
p></span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&=
quot;,sans-serif;color:#333333">If the pad backing plate is held close in th=
e slot, the piston cannot get cocked as severely under hard braking.&nbsp; S=
quaring of pad surface may still be desirable at some point, but pay close a=
ttention between of the width of the backing plate and the caliper slot.&nbs=
p;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family=
:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#333333">I have found Hawk pads to b=
e made with as close a clearance as factory pads and the same dimension on e=
very order.&nbsp; No variations.&nbsp; The Hawk pads also have the same shap=
e as factory pads, more like a pie cut.&nbsp; Wider at the outer edge.&nbsp;=
 This helps compensates for rotor surface speed and reduces uneven wear.&nbs=
p;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#333333">I do like the feel of the Carbote=
chs, but I cannot rely on their quality control.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;co=
lor:#333333">As you apply the brakes, the piston extends.&nbsp; If the pad c=
an move greatly within the caliper slot, the piston with take the side load,=
 not the backing plate of the pad as it should.&nbsp; If the backing plate i=
s not square, the pad will also rotate a little.&nbsp; Definitely not good.<=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;He=
lvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#333333">Beware,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;col=
or:#333333">Dave H.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#333333"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></p><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal">On July 21, 2019 at 12:27 PM Phil Gott via Fot &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote: <br><br>The=
 pads wear unevenly both radially and a bit circumferentially due to differe=
nt surface speeds and friction forces. As the pads wear unevenly they =E2=80=
=9Ccock=E2=80=9D in the caliper and bind up. The more wear, the greater the b=
inding.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Using some sort of a=
 device (surface grinder, drill press etc with a good dust collector and mas=
k for the operator) to make the face of the friction material parallel to th=
e backing plate solves this issue.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal">Yes, this does change the surface of the pad presented to the rotor. I=
 do not change rotors as they are in good shape. Any small to microscopic ir=
regularities between the two quickly get dealt with during the first session=
 out after squaring the pads. This would be the same as putting new pads on t=
he car with the old rotors. Just treat the first few laps as if you are bedd=
ing in new brakes, which to some extent you are (except for temperature effe=
cts).<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Different from a stree=
t machine where rust and grit take their toll in the rotor surface.<o:p></o:=
p></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Phil Gott<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">114 TR4A <o:p></o:p></p=
><div id=3D"ox-aa14149620-AppleMailSignature"><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Sent fr=
om my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin=
-bottom:12.0pt"><br>On Jul 21, 2019, at 10:33 AM, ralph hansen via Fot &lt; <=
a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote: <o:p>=
</o:p></p></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><=
div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helveti=
ca&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,san=
s-serif">not to rain on the parade but, are you turning the rotors each time=
 to make sure they are square also? if not, you now have unmatched surfaces -=
 in the old days with good metal rotors I could see a slight advantage, thes=
e days with the good pads we get, and soft rotors they wear together, you mi=
ght actually get a very slight increase in surface contact due to the angles=
 and dangles - and, as you machine the rotors you lose mass, the all importa=
nt heat sink that makes brakes work....<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helveti=
ca&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,san=
s-serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id=3D"ox-aa14149620-ydpfe570=
25dyahoo_quoted_4630465933"><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"=
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#26282A"=
>On Saturday, July 20, 2019, 07:19:46 PM CDT, Mathieu W. Huovinen via Fot &l=
t; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<o=
:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#26282A"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#26282A"><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#26282A">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,s=
ans-serif;color:#26282A">Squaring up the pads? Please tell me more, I'm stil=
l learning. Thanks!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#26282A">-Marhieu<o:p></o=
:p></span></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#26282A">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:=
#26282A">_______________________________________________ <br><a href=3D"mail=
to:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a> <br><br><a h=
ref=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.co=
m</a> <br><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"=
_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a> <br>Archive: <a href=3D"http://a=
utox.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive </a><=
a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot" target=3D"_blank">http://www.te=
am.net/pipermail/fot</a> <br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.tea=
m.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.t=
eam.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a> <br><br><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0p=
t;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12=
.0pt">_______________________________________________<br><a href=3D"mailto:f=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> <br><br><a href=3D"http://www.fot-=
racing.com">http://www.fot-racing.com</a> <br><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://=
www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a> <br>Archive: <=
a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive">http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <=
a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot">http://www.team.net/pipermail/f=
ot</a> <br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/opti=
ons/fot/[email-masked]">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/vfracing=
@aol.com</a> <br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div></blockquote><p=
 class=3D"default-style"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;H=
elvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#333333"><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">__________________________________________=
_____ <br><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> <br><=
br><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com">http://www.fot-racing.com</a> <br><=
br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/d=
onate.html</a> <br>Archive: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive">http:/=
/autox.team.net/archive</a> <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot">ht=
tp://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a> <br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http:=
//autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]">http://autox.team.=
net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a> <br><br><o:p></o:p></p></blo=
ckquote><p class=3D"default-style"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#333333"><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p></div></div></blockquote></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-2BD59B50-5070-4588-BF1C-8DC97CEDD615--

--===============0114901146452819870==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

--===============0114901146452819870==--

---

From: DAVE HOGYE via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 21:19:17 -0700 (PDT)

--===============2447531011278073397==
	boundary="----=_Part_444872_1056239375.1564028357749"

------=_Part_444872_1056239375.1564028357749
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I tried Porterfeild for the first time after I discovered problems with Car=
botech and was further disappointed in what they sent me.  The friction pad=
 surface was hanging "at least" 1/8" over the outer edge of the rotor.  I c=
ould not believe it.  I sent them back.  I took photos and video to documen=
t my discoveries with all these pads and I would happily share them.  When =
I locate the Porterfield photo, I will share it.  Of course Porterfield wou=
ld correct this if I send them details of my findings, but...  I cannot bel=
ieve the total BS learning experience I have been faced with.  I simply can=
not believe that these companies ship these inferior products.  Hawk has be=
en the only company that has sent me the exact same product that fits every=
 time.

TOTAL BS.

Dave H.

> On July 24, 2019 at 2:41 PM Phil Gott <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
>     I=E2=80=99ve been using Porterfield R4 with good results. Easy to mod=
ulate, work reasonably well when cold (safe pace lap) and last about 5-6 ev=
ents with squaring every two races.
>=20
>     Sent from my iPhone
>=20
>     On Jul 24, 2019, at 4:22 PM, < [email-masked] mailto:timmmurphh=
@gmail.com > < [email-masked] mailto:[email-masked] > wrote:
>=20
>=20
>         > >=20
> >         Maybe that explains the high wear rate that we are seeing latel=
y on the Carbotech CT2-XP10 brake pads we are using.  We used to get almost=
 4 or 5 race weekends out of a set of pads.  Now it=E2=80=99s like one and =
half race weekends.  What is the wear rate for others that are using this p=
ad?
> >=20
> >         =20
> >=20
> >         Maybe I will have to go back to the Hawk HB-169E.560 Blue/9012 =
compound brake pads that we were using.  Anyone have other suggestions?  We=
 like the stopping power, fast warm up and feel of the Carbotech pads but t=
he wear is getting a little pricey at about $200 a set.
> >=20
> >         =20
> >=20
> >         Tim and Ryan Murphy
> >=20
> >         #317 TR4 BRG
> >=20
> >         =20
> >=20
> >         From: Fot <[email-masked] mailto:fot-bounces@autox.=
team.net > On Behalf Of DAVE HOGYE via Fot
> >         To: Phil Gott <[email-masked] mailto:[email-masked] >; Phil=
 Gott via Fot <[email-masked] mailto:[email-masked] >; ralph hansen=
 <[email-masked] mailto:[email-masked] >
> >         The more clearance between the slot in the caliper and the pad =
backing plate the quicker this becomes a problem.   I've measured .010-.012=
" total clearance on an NOS street pad and as much as .070" on a set of Car=
botech pads.  The edges of the Carbotech backing plates looked to have been=
, (were definitely), ground off on and belt sander or grinder from the fact=
ory, right down to the edge of the friction pad and they were out of square=
 by .035".  The side of the pad was making contact with the caliper slot.  =
This immediately caused problems with the caliper pistons cocking severely.=
  The pistons even left a witness mark in the bore of the calipers.  Not go=
od.  The Carbotech pads had .070" wear diagonally across the friction surfa=
ce in a couple of weekends of racing.  Unfortunately, Carbotech made many e=
xcuses and denials when I brought this to their attention. =20
> >=20
> >         If the pad backing plate is held close in the slot, the piston =
cannot get cocked as severely under hard braking.  Squaring of pad surface =
may still be desirable at some point, but pay close attention between of th=
e width of the backing plate and the caliper slot. =20
> >=20
> >         I have found Hawk pads to be made with as close a clearance as =
factory pads and the same dimension on every order.  No variations.  The Ha=
wk pads also have the same shape as factory pads, more like a pie cut.  Wid=
er at the outer edge.  This helps compensates for rotor surface speed and r=
educes uneven wear.=20
> >=20
> >         I do like the feel of the Carbotechs, but I cannot rely on thei=
r quality control.
> >=20
> >         As you apply the brakes, the piston extends.  If the pad can mo=
ve greatly within the caliper slot, the piston with take the side load, not=
 the backing plate of the pad as it should.  If the backing plate is not sq=
uare, the pad will also rotate a little.  Definitely not good.
> >=20
> >         Beware,
> >=20
> >         Dave H.
> >=20
> >         =20
> >=20
> >             > > >=20
> > >             On July 21, 2019 at 12:27 PM Phil Gott via Fot <fot@autox=
.team.net mailto:[email-masked] > wrote:
> > >=20
> > >             The pads wear unevenly both radially and a bit circumfere=
ntially due to different surface speeds and friction forces. As the pads we=
ar unevenly they =E2=80=9Ccock=E2=80=9D in the caliper and bind up. The mor=
e wear, the greater the binding.=20
> > >=20
> > >             Using some sort of a device (surface grinder, drill press=
 etc with a good dust collector and mask for the operator) to make the face=
 of the friction material parallel to the backing plate solves this issue.
> > >=20
> > >             Yes, this does change the surface of the pad presented to=
 the rotor. I do not change rotors as they are in good shape. Any small to =
microscopic irregularities between the two quickly get dealt with during th=
e first session out after squaring the pads. This would be the same as putt=
ing new pads on the car with the old rotors. Just treat the first few laps =
as if you are bedding in new brakes, which to some extent you are (except f=
or temperature effects).
> > >=20
> > >             Different from a street machine where rust and grit take =
their toll in the rotor surface.
> > >=20
> > >             Phil Gott
> > >=20
> > >             114 TR4A
> > >=20
> > >             Sent from my iPhone
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > >             On Jul 21, 2019, at 10:33 AM, ralph hansen via Fot < fot@=
autox.team.net mailto:[email-masked] > wrote:
> > >=20
> > >                 > > > >=20
> > > >                 =20
> > > >=20
> > > >                 =20
> > > >=20
> > > >                 not to rain on the parade but, are you turning the =
rotors each time to make sure they are square also? if not, you now have un=
matched surfaces - in the old days with good metal rotors I could see a sli=
ght advantage, these days with the good pads we get, and soft rotors they w=
ear together, you might actually get a very slight increase in surface cont=
act due to the angles and dangles - and, as you machine the rotors you lose=
 mass, the all important heat sink that makes brakes work....
> > > >=20
> > > >                 =20
> > > >=20
> > > >                 =20
> > > >=20
> > > >                 On Saturday, July 20, 2019, 07:19:46 PM CDT, Mathie=
u W. Huovinen via Fot < [email-masked] mailto:[email-masked] > wrot=
e:
> > > >=20
> > > >                 =20
> > > >=20
> > > >                 =20
> > > >=20
> > > >                 =20
> > > >=20
> > > >                 Squaring up the pads? Please tell me more, I'm stil=
l learning. Thanks!
> > > >                 Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://autox=
.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> > > >                 Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/o=
ptions/fot/[email-masked]
> > > >                 Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.t=
eam.net/pipermail/fot
> > > >                 Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/o=
ptions/fot/[email-masked]
> > >             Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.ne=
t/pipermail/fot
> > >             Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options=
/fot/[email-masked]

=20

------=_Part_444872_1056239375.1564028357749
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE html>
<html><head>
    <meta charset=3D"UTF-8">
</head><body><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sa=
ns-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">I tried Porterfeild for the first time a=
fter I discovered problems with Carbotech and was further disappointed in w=
hat they sent me.&#160; The friction pad surface was hanging &#34;at least&=
#34; 1/8&#34; over the outer edge of the rotor.&#160; I could not believe i=
t.&#160; I sent them back.&#160; I took photos and video to document my dis=
coveries with all these pads and I would happily share them.&#160; When I l=
ocate the Porterfield photo, I will share it.&#160; Of course Porterfield w=
ould correct this if I send them details of my findings, but...&#160; I can=
not believe the total BS learning experience I have been faced with.&#160; =
I simply cannot believe that these companies ship these inferior products.&=
#160; Hawk has been the only company that has sent me the exact same produc=
t that fits every time.</p><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvet=
ica, arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">TOTAL BS.</p><p style=3D"f=
ont-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 5=
1, 51);">Dave H.</p><blockquote type=3D"cite">On July 24, 2019 at 2:41 PM P=
hil Gott &#60;[email-masked]&#62; wrote: <br> <br>I&#8217;ve been using P=
orterfield R4 with good results. Easy to modulate, work reasonably well whe=
n cold (safe pace lap) and last about 5-6 events with squaring every two ra=
ces. <br> <br><div id=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"ltr">Sent=
 from my iPhone</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Jul 24, 2019, at 4:22 PM, &#60=
; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&#62; &#6=
0; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&#62; wr=
ote: <br> <br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=
=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-WordSection1"><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">Maybe =
that explains the high wear rate that we are seeing lately on the Carbotech=
 CT2-XP10 brake pads we are using.&#160; We used to get almost 4 or 5 race =
weekends out of a set of pads.&#160; Now it&#8217;s like one and half race =
weekends.&#160; What is the wear rate for others that are using this pad?</=
p><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">&#160;</p><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-=
MsoNormal">Maybe I will have to go back to the Hawk HB-169E.560 Blue/9012 c=
ompound brake pads that we were using.&#160; Anyone have other suggestions?=
&#160; We like the stopping power, fast warm up and feel of the Carbotech p=
ads but the wear is getting a little pricey at about $200 a set.</p><p clas=
s=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">&#160;</p><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal=
">Tim and Ryan Murphy</p><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">#317 TR4 BRG<=
/p><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">&#160;</p><div><div style=3D"border=
: none; border-top: solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt; padding: 3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;"><p cl=
ass=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><strong>From:</strong> Fot &#60;<a href=3D"=
mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&#62; <str=
ong>On Behalf Of </strong>DAVE HOGYE via Fot<br><strong>Sent:</strong> Sund=
ay, July 21, 2019 11:11 PM<br><strong>To:</strong> Phil Gott &#60;<a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&#62;; Phil Gott via Fot &=
#60;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&#62;; ralp=
h hansen &#60;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&#62;=
<br><strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [Fot] squaring pads</p></div></div><p cla=
ss=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">&#160;</p><p><span style=3D"font-size: 12.0p=
t; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #333333;">The more clearance=
 between the slot in the caliper and the pad backing plate the quicker this=
 becomes a problem.&#160; &#160;I&#39;ve measured .010-.012&#34; total clea=
rance on an NOS street pad and as much as .070&#34; on a set of Carbotech p=
ads.&#160; The edges of the Carbotech backing plates looked to have been, (=
were definitely), ground off on and belt sander or grinder from the factory=
, right down to the edge of the friction pad and they were out of square by=
 .035&#34;.&#160; The side of the pad was making contact with the caliper s=
lot.&#160; This immediately caused problems with the caliper pistons cockin=
g severely.&#160; The pistons even left a witness mark in the bore of the c=
alipers.&#160; Not good.&#160; The Carbotech pads had .070&#34; wear diagon=
ally across the friction surface in a couple of weekends of racing.&#160; U=
nfortunately, Carbotech made many excuses and denials when I brought this t=
o their attention.&#160;&#160; </span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size: 12.0=
pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #333333;">If the pad backin=
g plate is held close in the slot, the piston cannot get cocked as severely=
 under hard braking.&#160; Squaring of pad surface may still be desirable a=
t some point, but pay close attention between of the width of the backing p=
late and the caliper slot.&#160;&#160; </span></p><p><span style=3D"font-si=
ze: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #333333;">I have fo=
und Hawk pads to be made with as close a clearance as factory pads and the =
same dimension on every order.&#160; No variations.&#160; The Hawk pads als=
o have the same shape as factory pads, more like a pie cut.&#160; Wider at =
the outer edge.&#160; This helps compensates for rotor surface speed and re=
duces uneven wear.&#160; </span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size: 12.0pt; fo=
nt-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #333333;">I do like the feel of t=
he Carbotechs, but I cannot rely on their quality control. </span></p><p><s=
pan style=3D"font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color:=
 #333333;">As you apply the brakes, the piston extends.&#160; If the pad ca=
n move greatly within the caliper slot, the piston with take the side load,=
 not the backing plate of the pad as it should.&#160; If the backing plate =
is not square, the pad will also rotate a little.&#160; Definitely not good=
. </span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',=
sans-serif; color: #333333;">Beware, </span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size=
: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #333333;">Dave H. </s=
pan></p><p><span style=3D"font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-=
serif; color: #333333;"> &#160; </span></p><blockquote><p class=3D"ox-f2c81=
da09d-MsoNormal">On July 21, 2019 at 12:27 PM Phil Gott via Fot &#60;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&#62; wrote: <br><br>=
The pads wear unevenly both radially and a bit circumferentially due to dif=
ferent surface speeds and friction forces. As the pads wear unevenly they &=
#8220;cock&#8221; in the caliper and bind up. The more wear, the greater th=
e binding.&#160;</p><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">Using some so=
rt of a device (surface grinder, drill press etc with a good dust collector=
 and mask for the operator) to make the face of the friction material paral=
lel to the backing plate solves this issue.</p></div><div><p class=3D"ox-f2=
c81da09d-MsoNormal">Yes, this does change the surface of the pad presented =
to the rotor. I do not change rotors as they are in good shape. Any small t=
o microscopic irregularities between the two quickly get dealt with during =
the first session out after squaring the pads. This would be the same as pu=
tting new pads on the car with the old rotors. Just treat the first few lap=
s as if you are bedding in new brakes, which to some extent you are (except=
 for temperature effects).</p></div><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNorma=
l">Different from a street machine where rust and grit take their toll in t=
he rotor surface.</p></div><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">Phil G=
ott</p></div><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bott=
om: 12.0pt;">114 TR4A</p><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">Sent from my =
iPhone</p><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:=
 12.0pt;"><br>On Jul 21, 2019, at 10:33 AM, ralph hansen via Fot &#60; <a h=
ref=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&#62; wrote:</p></d=
iv><blockquote><div><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif;">&#160; </span>=
</p></div><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif;">&#160; </span></p></div><d=
iv><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt; f=
ont-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif;">not to rain on the parade but, are you=
 turning the rotors each time to make sure they are square also? if not, yo=
u now have unmatched surfaces - in the old days with good metal rotors I co=
uld see a slight advantage, these days with the good pads we get, and soft =
rotors they wear together, you might actually get a very slight increase in=
 surface contact due to the angles and dangles - and, as you machine the ro=
tors you lose mass, the all important heat sink that makes brakes work.... =
</span></p></div><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif;"> &#160; </span></p>=
</div><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 1=
0.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif;">&#160; </span></p></div><div><=
div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt; =
font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #26282a;">On Saturday, July 20,=
 2019, 07:19:46 PM CDT, Mathieu W. Huovinen via Fot &#60; <a href=3D"mailto=
:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&#62; wrote: </span></p></div><d=
iv><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt; f=
ont-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #26282a;"> &#160; </span></p></d=
iv><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.0=
pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #26282a;"> &#160; </span></=
p></div><div><p><span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',=
sans-serif; color: #26282a;">&#160; </span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size:=
 10.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #26282a;">Squaring up =
the pads? Please tell me more, I&#39;m still learning. Thanks! </span></p><=
p><span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; co=
lor: #26282a;">-Marhieu </span></p><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal=
"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; co=
lor: #26282a;">&#160; </span></p></div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"=
 style=3D"margin-bottom: 12.0pt;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt; font-fa=
mily: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #26282a;">____________________________=
___________________ <br><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_bl=
ank" rel=3D"noopener">[email-masked]</a> <br><br><a href=3D"http://www.=
fot-racing.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">http://www.fot-racing.co=
m</a> <br><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D=
"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a> <br>Archive: =
<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener=
">http://autox.team.net/archive </a><a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermai=
l/fot" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot=
</a> <br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/optio=
ns/fot/[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">http://autox.te=
am.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a> <br><br> </span></p></div><=
/div></div></blockquote><blockquote><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNorma=
l" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12.0pt;">_______________________________________=
________<br><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> <b=
r><br><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com">http://www.fot-racing.com</a> <=
br><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.=
net/donate.html</a> <br>Archive: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive">=
http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/=
fot">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a> <br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=
=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]">http://auto=
x.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a> <br><br></p></div></blo=
ckquote></div></blockquote><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-default-style"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #333=
333;"><br>&#160; </span></p><blockquote><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal=
" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12.0pt;">________________________________________=
_______ <br><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> <b=
r><br><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com">http://www.fot-racing.com</a> <=
br><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.=
net/donate.html</a> <br>Archive: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive">=
http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/=
fot">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a> <br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=
=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]">http://a=
utox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a> <br><br></p></blo=
ckquote><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-default-style"><span style=3D"font-size: =
12.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #333333;"><br>&#160; </=
span></p></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt;=
 font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;" class=3D"default=
-style"><br>&#160;</p></body></html>
=20
------=_Part_444872_1056239375.1564028357749--

--===============2447531011278073397==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

--===============2447531011278073397==--

---

From: Brad Eells via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 22:24:14 -0700

--===============4652862259253935330==
	boundary=Apple-Mail-DD0CDD41-27DB-4682-81BA-65109317B4B6
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

--Apple-Mail-DD0CDD41-27DB-4682-81BA-65109317B4B6
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Fun part is that Porterfield sends you the metric Datsun 240Z pad for the 16=
P caliper that you then have to machine to fit the pin locations.

Went round and round with them...they weren=E2=80=99t listening...

Brad Eells
Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 24, 2019, at 9:19 PM, DAVE HOGYE via Fot <[email-masked]> wrote=
:
>=20
> I tried Porterfeild for the first time after I discovered problems with Ca=
rbotech and was further disappointed in what they sent me.  The friction pad=
 surface was hanging "at least" 1/8" over the outer edge of the rotor.  I co=
uld not believe it.  I sent them back.  I took photos and video to document m=
y discoveries with all these pads and I would happily share them.  When I lo=
cate the Porterfield photo, I will share it.  Of course Porterfield would co=
rrect this if I send them details of my findings, but...  I cannot believe t=
he total BS learning experience I have been faced with.  I simply cannot bel=
ieve that these companies ship these inferior products.  Hawk has been the o=
nly company that has sent me the exact same product that fits every time.
>=20
> TOTAL BS.
>=20
> Dave H.
>=20
>> On July 24, 2019 at 2:41 PM Phil Gott <[email-masked]> wrote:=20
>>=20
>> I=E2=80=99ve been using Porterfield R4 with good results. Easy to modulat=
e, work reasonably well when cold (safe pace lap) and last about 5-6 events w=
ith squaring every two races.=20
>>=20
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>=20
>>> On Jul 24, 2019, at 4:22 PM, < [email-masked]> < timmmurphh@gmail.=
com> wrote:=20
>>>=20
>>> Maybe that explains the high wear rate that we are seeing lately on the C=
arbotech CT2-XP10 brake pads we are using.  We used to get almost 4 or 5 rac=
e weekends out of a set of pads.  Now it=E2=80=99s like one and half race we=
ekends.  What is the wear rate for others that are using this pad?
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> Maybe I will have to go back to the Hawk HB-169E.560 Blue/9012 compound b=
rake pads that we were using.  Anyone have other suggestions?  We like the s=
topping power, fast warm up and feel of the Carbotech pads but the wear is g=
etting a little pricey at about $200 a set.
>>> To: Phil Gott <[email-masked]>; Phil Gott via Fot <[email-masked]>=
; ralph hansen <[email-masked]>
>>> The more clearance between the slot in the caliper and the pad backing p=
late the quicker this becomes a problem.   I've measured .010-.012" total cl=
earance on an NOS street pad and as much as .070" on a set of Carbotech pads=
.  The edges of the Carbotech backing plates looked to have been, (were defi=
nitely), ground off on and belt sander or grinder from the factory, right do=
wn to the edge of the friction pad and they were out of square by .035".  Th=
e side of the pad was making contact with the caliper slot.  This immediatel=
y caused problems with the caliper pistons cocking severely.  The pistons ev=
en left a witness mark in the bore of the calipers.  Not good.  The Carbotec=
h pads had .070" wear diagonally across the friction surface in a couple of w=
eekends of racing.  Unfortunately, Carbotech made many excuses and denials w=
hen I brought this to their attention. =20
>>>=20
>>> If the pad backing plate is held close in the slot, the piston cannot ge=
t cocked as severely under hard braking.  Squaring of pad surface may still b=
e desirable at some point, but pay close attention between of the width of t=
he backing plate and the caliper slot. =20
>>>=20
>>> I have found Hawk pads to be made with as close a clearance as factory p=
ads and the same dimension on every order.  No variations.  The Hawk pads al=
so have the same shape as factory pads, more like a pie cut.  Wider at the o=
uter edge.  This helps compensates for rotor surface speed and reduces uneve=
n wear.=20
>>>=20
>>> I do like the feel of the Carbotechs, but I cannot rely on their quality=
 control.
>>>=20
>>> As you apply the brakes, the piston extends.  If the pad can move greatl=
y within the caliper slot, the piston with take the side load, not the backi=
ng plate of the pad as it should.  If the backing plate is not square, the p=
ad will also rotate a little.  Definitely not good.
>>>=20
>>> Beware,
>>>=20
>>> Dave H.
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> On July 21, 2019 at 12:27 PM Phil Gott via Fot <[email-masked]> wrot=
e:=20
>>>=20
>>> The pads wear unevenly both radially and a bit circumferentially due to d=
ifferent surface speeds and friction forces. As the pads wear unevenly they =E2=
=80=9Ccock=E2=80=9D in the caliper and bind up. The more wear, the greater t=
he binding.=20
>>>=20
>>> Using some sort of a device (surface grinder, drill press etc with a goo=
d dust collector and mask for the operator) to make the face of the friction=
 material parallel to the backing plate solves this issue.
>>>=20
>>> Yes, this does change the surface of the pad presented to the rotor. I d=
o not change rotors as they are in good shape. Any small to microscopic irre=
gularities between the two quickly get dealt with during the first session o=
ut after squaring the pads. This would be the same as putting new pads on th=
e car with the old rotors. Just treat the first few laps as if you are beddi=
ng in new brakes, which to some extent you are (except for temperature effec=
ts).
>>>=20
>>> Different from a street machine where rust and grit take their toll in t=
he rotor surface.
>>>=20
>>> Phil Gott
>>>=20
>>> 114 TR4A
>>>=20
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> On Jul 21, 2019, at 10:33 AM, ralph hansen via Fot < [email-masked]>=
 wrote:
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> not to rain on the parade but, are you turning the rotors each time to m=
ake sure they are square also? if not, you now have unmatched surfaces - in t=
he old days with good metal rotors I could see a slight advantage, these day=
s with the good pads we get, and soft rotors they wear together, you might a=
ctually get a very slight increase in surface contact due to the angles and d=
angles - and, as you machine the rotors you lose mass, the all important hea=
t sink that makes brakes work....
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> On Saturday, July 20, 2019, 07:19:46 PM CDT, Mathieu W. Huovinen via Fot=
 < [email-masked]> wrote:
>>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot=
=20
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/quikrx@yah=
oo.com=20
>>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot=
=20
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/vfracing@a=
ol.com=20
>>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot=
=20
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/dlhogye@co=
mcast.net=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4abrad@gma=
il.com

--Apple-Mail-DD0CDD41-27DB-4682-81BA-65109317B4B6
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Fun part is that Porterfield sends you the m=
etric Datsun 240Z pad for the 16P caliper that you then have to machine to f=
it the pin locations.<div><br></div><div>Went round and round with them...th=
ey weren=E2=80=99t listening...<br><br><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature" dir=3D=
"ltr">Brad Eells<div>Sent from my iPhone</div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On J=
ul 24, 2019, at 9:19 PM, DAVE HOGYE via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.=
team.net">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D=
"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">

    <meta charset=3D"UTF-8">
<p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; colo=
r: rgb(51, 51, 51);">I tried Porterfeild for the first time after I discover=
ed problems with Carbotech and was further disappointed in what they sent me=
.&nbsp; The friction pad surface was hanging "at least" 1/8" over the outer e=
dge of the rotor.&nbsp; I could not believe it.&nbsp; I sent them back.&nbsp=
; I took photos and video to document my discoveries with all these pads and=
 I would happily share them.&nbsp; When I locate the Porterfield photo, I wi=
ll share it.&nbsp; Of course Porterfield would correct this if I send them d=
etails of my findings, but...&nbsp; I cannot believe the total BS learning e=
xperience I have been faced with.&nbsp; I simply cannot believe that these c=
ompanies ship these inferior products.&nbsp; Hawk has been the only company t=
hat has sent me the exact same product that fits every time.</p><p style=3D"=
font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 5=
1, 51);">TOTAL BS.</p><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, a=
rial, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">Dave H.</p><blockquote type=3D"ci=
te">On July 24, 2019 at 2:41 PM Phil Gott &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:vfracing@aol=
.com">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote: <br> <br>I=E2=80=99ve been using Porte=
rfield R4 with good results. Easy to modulate, work reasonably well when col=
d (safe pace lap) and last about 5-6 events with squaring every two races. <=
br> <br><div id=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"ltr">Sent from m=
y iPhone</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Jul 24, 2019, at 4:22 PM, &lt; <a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; &lt; <a href=3D=
"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote: <br> <br><=
/div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-=
WordSection1"><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">Maybe that explains the h=
igh wear rate that we are seeing lately on the Carbotech CT2-XP10 brake pads=
 we are using.&nbsp; We used to get almost 4 or 5 race weekends out of a set=
 of pads.&nbsp; Now it=E2=80=99s like one and half race weekends.&nbsp; What=
 is the wear rate for others that are using this pad?</p><p class=3D"ox-f2c8=
1da09d-MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">Maybe I wil=
l have to go back to the Hawk HB-169E.560 Blue/9012 compound brake pads that=
 we were using.&nbsp; Anyone have other suggestions?&nbsp; We like the stopp=
ing power, fast warm up and feel of the Carbotech pads but the wear is getti=
ng a little pricey at about $200 a set.</p><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNorm=
al">&nbsp;</p><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">Tim and Ryan Murphy</p><p=
 class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">#317 TR4 BRG</p><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d=
-MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p><div><div style=3D"border: none; border-top: solid #E1=
E1E1 1.0pt; padding: 3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;"><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal=
"><strong>From:</strong> Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
t">[email-masked]</a>&gt; <strong>On Behalf Of </strong>DAVE HOG=
YE via Fot<br><strong>Sent:</strong> Sunday, July 21, 2019 11:11 PM<br><stro=
ng>To:</strong> Phil Gott &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">vfracing@a=
ol.com</a>&gt;; Phil Gott via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;; ralph hansen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:quikrx@yahoo.=
com">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [Fot] squarin=
g pads</p></div></div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p><p><spa=
n style=3D"font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #3=
33333;">The more clearance between the slot in the caliper and the pad backi=
ng plate the quicker this becomes a problem.&nbsp; &nbsp;I've measured .010-=
.012" total clearance on an NOS street pad and as much as .070" on a set of C=
arbotech pads.&nbsp; The edges of the Carbotech backing plates looked to hav=
e been, (were definitely), ground off on and belt sander or grinder from the=
 factory, right down to the edge of the friction pad and they were out of sq=
uare by .035".&nbsp; The side of the pad was making contact with the caliper=
 slot.&nbsp; This immediately caused problems with the caliper pistons cocki=
ng severely.&nbsp; The pistons even left a witness mark in the bore of the c=
alipers.&nbsp; Not good.&nbsp; The Carbotech pads had .070" wear diagonally a=
cross the friction surface in a couple of weekends of racing.&nbsp; Unfortun=
ately, Carbotech made many excuses and denials when I brought this to their a=
ttention.&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size: 12.0pt; font-f=
amily: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #333333;">If the pad backing plate is h=
eld close in the slot, the piston cannot get cocked as severely under hard b=
raking.&nbsp; Squaring of pad surface may still be desirable at some point, b=
ut pay close attention between of the width of the backing plate and the cal=
iper slot.&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size: 12.0pt; font-=
family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #333333;">I have found Hawk pads to b=
e made with as close a clearance as factory pads and the same dimension on e=
very order.&nbsp; No variations.&nbsp; The Hawk pads also have the same shap=
e as factory pads, more like a pie cut.&nbsp; Wider at the outer edge.&nbsp;=
 This helps compensates for rotor surface speed and reduces uneven wear.&nbs=
p; </span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',=
sans-serif; color: #333333;">I do like the feel of the Carbotechs, but I can=
not rely on their quality control. </span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size: 1=
2.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #333333;">As you apply th=
e brakes, the piston extends.&nbsp; If the pad can move greatly within the c=
aliper slot, the piston with take the side load, not the backing plate of th=
e pad as it should.&nbsp; If the backing plate is not square, the pad will a=
lso rotate a little.&nbsp; Definitely not good. </span></p><p><span style=3D=
"font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #333333;">Be=
ware, </span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetic=
a',sans-serif; color: #333333;">Dave H. </span></p><p><span style=3D"font-si=
ze: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #333333;"> &nbsp; </=
span></p><blockquote><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">On July 21, 2019 a=
t 12:27 PM Phil Gott via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">fot@a=
utox.team.net</a>&gt; wrote: <br><br>The pads wear unevenly both radially an=
d a bit circumferentially due to different surface speeds and friction force=
s. As the pads wear unevenly they =E2=80=9Ccock=E2=80=9D in the caliper and b=
ind up. The more wear, the greater the binding.&nbsp;</p><div><p class=3D"ox=
-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">Using some sort of a device (surface grinder, drill p=
ress etc with a good dust collector and mask for the operator) to make the f=
ace of the friction material parallel to the backing plate solves this issue=
.</p></div><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">Yes, this does change t=
he surface of the pad presented to the rotor. I do not change rotors as they=
 are in good shape. Any small to microscopic irregularities between the two q=
uickly get dealt with during the first session out after squaring the pads. T=
his would be the same as putting new pads on the car with the old rotors. Ju=
st treat the first few laps as if you are bedding in new brakes, which to so=
me extent you are (except for temperature effects).</p></div><div><p class=3D=
"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">Different from a street machine where rust and gri=
t take their toll in the rotor surface.</p></div><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da=
09d-MsoNormal">Phil Gott</p></div><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal" s=
tyle=3D"margin-bottom: 12.0pt;">114 TR4A</p><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNor=
mal">Sent from my iPhone</p><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal" style=3D=
"margin-bottom: 12.0pt;"><br>On Jul 21, 2019, at 10:33 AM, ralph hansen via =
Fot &lt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wr=
ote:</p></div><blockquote><div><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif;">&nbsp; <=
/span></p></div><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif;">&nbsp; </span></p></di=
v><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt=
; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif;">not to rain on the parade but, are y=
ou turning the rotors each time to make sure they are square also? if not, y=
ou now have unmatched surfaces - in the old days with good metal rotors I co=
uld see a slight advantage, these days with the good pads we get, and soft r=
otors they wear together, you might actually get a very slight increase in s=
urface contact due to the angles and dangles - and, as you machine the rotor=
s you lose mass, the all important heat sink that makes brakes work.... </sp=
an></p></div><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif;"> &nbsp; </span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt; f=
ont-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif;">&nbsp; </span></p></div><div><div><p cl=
ass=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt; font-famil=
y: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #26282a;">On Saturday, July 20, 2019, 07:1=
9:46 PM CDT, Mathieu W. Huovinen via Fot &lt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
am.net">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote: </span></p></div><div><p class=3D"=
ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Hel=
vetica',sans-serif; color: #26282a;"> &nbsp; </span></p></div><div><p class=3D=
"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'He=
lvetica',sans-serif; color: #26282a;"> &nbsp; </span></p></div><div><p><span=
 style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #26=
282a;">&nbsp; </span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: '=
Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #26282a;">Squaring up the pads? Please tell me=
 more, I'm still learning. Thanks! </span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size: 1=
0.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #26282a;">-Marhieu </span=
></p><div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.=
0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #26282a;">&nbsp; </span></p=
></div><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12.0pt;"=
><span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; colo=
r: #26282a;">_______________________________________________ <br><a href=3D"=
mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">[email-masked]=
.net</a> <br><br><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"noopener">http://www.fot-racing.com</a> <br><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http:=
//www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">http://www.te=
am.net/donate.html</a> <br>Archive: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive=
" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">http://autox.team.net/archive </a><a hr=
ef=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">=
http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a> <br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"htt=
p://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" r=
el=3D"noopener">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</=
a> <br><br> </span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote><div><p cl=
ass=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12.0pt;">___________=
____________________________________<br><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
">[email-masked]</a> <br><br><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com">http:=
//www.fot-racing.com</a> <br><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/dona=
te.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a> <br>Archive: <a href=3D"http://=
autox.team.net/archive">http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a href=3D"http://=
www.team.net/pipermail/fot">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a> <br>Unsubs=
cribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/vfracing@=
aol.com">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a> <br>=
<br></p></div></blockquote></div></blockquote><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-defa=
ult-style"><span style=3D"font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-s=
erif; color: #333333;"><br>&nbsp; </span></p><blockquote><p class=3D"ox-f2c8=
1da09d-MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12.0pt;">_________________________=
______________________ <br><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
eam.net</a> <br><br><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com">http://www.fot-rac=
ing.com</a> <br><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http=
://www.team.net/donate.html</a> <br>Archive: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.ne=
t/archive">http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/=
pipermail/fot">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a> <br>Unsubscribe/Manage:=
 <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]">h=
ttp://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a> <br><br></p=
></blockquote><p class=3D"ox-f2c81da09d-default-style"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: #333333;"><br>&nbsp=
; </span></p></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><p style=3D"font-size: 12=
pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;" class=3D"defau=
lt-style"><br>&nbsp;</p>
 </div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span>_______=
________________________________________</span><br><span><a href=3D"mailto:f=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a></span><br><span></span><br><span><=
a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com">http://www.fot-racing.com</a></span><br=
><span></span><br><span>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">=
://autox.team.net/archive">http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a href=3D"http=
://www.team.net/pipermail/fot">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a></span><=
br><span>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/option=
s/fot/[email-masked]">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4abrad=
@gmail.com</a></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br></div></blockquot=
e></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-DD0CDD41-27DB-4682-81BA-65109317B4B6--

--===============4652862259253935330==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

--===============4652862259253935330==--

---

From: Bob Kramer via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 07:16:05 -0500

--===============1843278736627841888==

--0000000000005e130f058e806afe
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I am probably not alone in having been at the track with a spare set of
pads in the parts box when I have run across these fitment problems on a
Saturday night getting ready for the next day.

Bob Kramer

On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 12:24 AM Brad Eells via Fot <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> Fun part is that Porterfield sends you the metric Datsun 240Z pad for the
> 16P caliper that you then have to machine to fit the pin locations.
>
> On Jul 24, 2019, at 9:19 PM, DAVE HOGYE via Fot <[email-masked]>
> wrote:
>
> I tried Porterfeild for the first time after I discovered problems with
> Carbotech and was further disappointed in what they sent me.  The frictio=
n
> pad surface was hanging "at least" 1/8" over the outer edge of the rotor.
> I could not believe it.  I sent them back.  I took photos and video to
> document my discoveries with all these pads and I would happily share
> them.  When I locate the Porterfield photo, I will share it.  Of course
> Porterfield would correct this if I send them details of my findings,
> but...  I cannot believe the total BS learning experience I have been fac=
ed
> with.  I simply cannot believe that these companies ship these inferior
> products.  Hawk has been the only company that has sent me the exact same
> product that fits every time.
>
> TOTAL BS.
>
> Dave H.
>
e, work
> reasonably well when cold (safe pace lap) and last about 5-6 events with
> On Jul 24, 2019, at 4:22 PM, < [email-masked]> <
> [email-masked]> wrote:
>
> Maybe that explains the high wear rate that we are seeing lately on the
> Carbotech CT2-XP10 brake pads we are using.  We used to get almost 4 or 5
> race weekends out of a set of pads.  Now it=E2=80=99s like one and half r=
ace
> weekends.  What is the wear rate for others that are using this pad?
>
>
>
> Maybe I will have to go back to the Hawk HB-169E.560 Blue/9012 compound
> brake pads that we were using.  Anyone have other suggestions?  We like t=
he
> stopping power, fast warm up and feel of the Carbotech pads but the wear =
is
> getting a little pricey at about $200 a set.
>
>
>
> Tim and Ryan Murphy
>
> #317 TR4 BRG
>
>
>
> *From:* Fot <[email-masked]> *On Behalf Of *DAVE HOGYE via Fo=
t
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 21, 2019 11:11 PM
> *To:* Phil Gott <[email-masked]>; Phil Gott via Fot <[email-masked]=
>;
> *Subject:* Re: [Fot] squaring pads
>
>
>
> The more clearance between the slot in the caliper and the pad backing
> plate the quicker this becomes a problem.   I've measured .010-.012" tota=
l
> clearance on an NOS street pad and as much as .070" on a set of Carbotech
> pads.  The edges of the Carbotech backing plates looked to have been, (we=
re
> definitely), ground off on and belt sander or grinder from the factory,
> right down to the edge of the friction pad and they were out of square by
> .035".  The side of the pad was making contact with the caliper slot.  Th=
is
> immediately caused problems with the caliper pistons cocking severely.  T=
he
> pistons even left a witness mark in the bore of the calipers.  Not good.
> The Carbotech pads had .070" wear diagonally across the friction surface =
in
> a couple of weekends of racing.  Unfortunately, Carbotech made many excus=
es
> and denials when I brought this to their attention.
>
> If the pad backing plate is held close in the slot, the piston cannot get
> cocked as severely under hard braking.  Squaring of pad surface may still
> be desirable at some point, but pay close attention between of the width =
of
> the backing plate and the caliper slot.
>
> I have found Hawk pads to be made with as close a clearance as factory
> pads and the same dimension on every order.  No variations.  The Hawk pad=
s
> also have the same shape as factory pads, more like a pie cut.  Wider at
> the outer edge.  This helps compensates for rotor surface speed and reduc=
es
> uneven wear.
>
> I do like the feel of the Carbotechs, but I cannot rely on their quality
> control.
>
> As you apply the brakes, the piston extends.  If the pad can move greatly
> within the caliper slot, the piston with take the side load, not the
> backing plate of the pad as it should.  If the backing plate is not squar=
e,
> the pad will also rotate a little.  Definitely not good.
>
> Beware,
>
> Dave H.
>
>
>
> On July 21, 2019 at 12:27 PM Phil Gott via Fot <[email-masked]>
> wrote:
>
> The pads wear unevenly both radially and a bit circumferentially due to
> different surface speeds and friction forces. As the pads wear unevenly
> they =E2=80=9Ccock=E2=80=9D in the caliper and bind up. The more wear, th=
e greater the
> binding.
>
> Using some sort of a device (surface grinder, drill press etc with a good
> dust collector and mask for the operator) to make the face of the frictio=
n
> Yes, this does change the surface of the pad presented to the rotor. I do
> not change rotors as they are in good shape. Any small to microscopic
> irregularities between the two quickly get dealt with during the first
> session out after squaring the pads. This would be the same as putting ne=
w
> pads on the car with the old rotors. Just treat the first few laps as if
> you are bedding in new brakes, which to some extent you are (except for
> temperature effects).
>
> Different from a street machine where rust and grit take their toll in th=
e
> rotor surface.
>
> Phil Gott
>
> 114 TR4A
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Jul 21, 2019, at 10:33 AM, ralph hansen via Fot < [email-masked]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> not to rain on the parade but, are you turning the rotors each time to
> make sure they are square also? if not, you now have unmatched surfaces -
> in the old days with good metal rotors I could see a slight advantage,
> these days with the good pads we get, and soft rotors they wear together,
> you might actually get a very slight increase in surface contact due to t=
he
> angles and dangles - and, as you machine the rotors you lose mass, the al=
l
> important heat sink that makes brakes work....
>
>
>
>
>
> On Saturday, July 20, 2019, 07:19:46 PM CDT, Mathieu W. Huovinen via Fot =
<
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>
>
>
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>
>
>

--0000000000005e130f058e806afe
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">I am probably not alone in having been at the track with a=
 spare set of pads in the parts box when I have run across these fitment pr=
oblems on a Saturday night getting ready for the next day.<div><br clear=3D=
"all"><div><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gma=
il_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr">Bob Kramer</div></div></div><br></div></div>=
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu=
, Jul 25, 2019 at 12:24 AM Brad Eells via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fot@aut=
ox.team.net">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">Fun part is that Porterf=
ield sends you the metric Datsun 240Z pad for the 16P caliper that you then=
 have to machine to fit the pin locations.<div><br></div><div>Went round an=
d round with them...they weren=E2=80=99t listening...<br><br><div id=3D"gma=
il-m_9170696528488436AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"ltr">Brad Eells<div>Sent fr=
om my iPhone</div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Jul 24, 2019, at 9:19 PM, D=
AVE HOGYE via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blan=
k">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"=
><div dir=3D"ltr">

   =20
<p style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;color:rgb=
(51,51,51)">I tried Porterfeild for the first time after I discovered probl=
ems with Carbotech and was further disappointed in what they sent me.=C2=A0=
 The friction pad surface was hanging &quot;at least&quot; 1/8&quot; over t=
he outer edge of the rotor.=C2=A0 I could not believe it.=C2=A0 I sent them=
 back.=C2=A0 I took photos and video to document my discoveries with all th=
ese pads and I would happily share them.=C2=A0 When I locate the Porterfiel=
d photo, I will share it.=C2=A0 Of course Porterfield would correct this if=
 I send them details of my findings, but...=C2=A0 I cannot believe the tota=
l BS learning experience I have been faced with.=C2=A0 I simply cannot beli=
eve that these companies ship these inferior products.=C2=A0 Hawk has been =
the only company that has sent me the exact same product that fits every ti=
me.</p><p style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;co=
lor:rgb(51,51,51)">TOTAL BS.</p><p style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:helv=
etica,arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Dave H.</p><blockquote type=3D"=
cite">On July 24, 2019 at 2:41 PM Phil Gott &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:vfracing@=
aol.com" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote: <br> <br>I=E2=80=
=99ve been using Porterfield R4 with good results. Easy to modulate, work r=
easonably well when cold (safe pace lap) and last about 5-6 events with squ=
aring every two races. <br> <br><div id=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81=
da09d-AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir=3D"=
ltr"><br>On Jul 24, 2019, at 4:22 PM, &lt; <a href=3D"mailto:timmmurphh@gma=
il.com" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; &lt; <a href=3D"mail=
to:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wro=
te: <br> <br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D=
"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-WordSection1"><p class=3D"gmail-m_91=
70696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">Maybe that explains the high wear ra=
te that we are seeing lately on the Carbotech CT2-XP10 brake pads we are us=
ing.=C2=A0 We used to get almost 4 or 5 race weekends out of a set of pads.=
=C2=A0 Now it=E2=80=99s like one and half race weekends.=C2=A0 What is the =
wear rate for others that are using this pad?</p><p class=3D"gmail-m_917069=
6528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p><p class=3D"gmail-m_9170696528=
488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">Maybe I will have to go back to the Hawk HB-=
169E.560 Blue/9012 compound brake pads that we were using.=C2=A0 Anyone hav=
e other suggestions?=C2=A0 We like the stopping power, fast warm up and fee=
l of the Carbotech pads but the wear is getting a little pricey at about $2=
00 a set.</p><p class=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">=
=C2=A0</p><p class=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">Tim =
and Ryan Murphy</p><p class=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNor=
mal">#317 TR4 BRG</p><p class=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoN=
ormal">=C2=A0</p><div><div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;bo=
rder-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in"><=
p class=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><strong>From:</=
strong> Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_bl=
ank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; <strong>On Behalf Of </strong>DAVE =
HOGYE via Fot<br><strong>Sent:</strong> Sunday, July 21, 2019 11:11 PM<br><=
strong>To:</strong> Phil Gott &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" targe=
t=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; Phil Gott via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; ralph=
 hansen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">quikrx@ya=
hoo.com</a>&gt;<br><strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [Fot] squaring pads</p></d=
iv></div><p class=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">=C2=
=A0</p><p><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;co=
lor:rgb(51,51,51)">The more clearance between the slot in the caliper and t=
he pad backing plate the quicker this becomes a problem.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I&#39;=
ve measured .010-.012&quot; total clearance on an NOS street pad and as muc=
h as .070&quot; on a set of Carbotech pads.=C2=A0 The edges of the Carbotec=
h backing plates looked to have been, (were definitely), ground off on and =
belt sander or grinder from the factory, right down to the edge of the fric=
tion pad and they were out of square by .035&quot;.=C2=A0 The side of the p=
ad was making contact with the caliper slot.=C2=A0 This immediately caused =
problems with the caliper pistons cocking severely.=C2=A0 The pistons even =
left a witness mark in the bore of the calipers.=C2=A0 Not good.=C2=A0 The =
Carbotech pads had .070&quot; wear diagonally across the friction surface i=
n a couple of weekends of racing.=C2=A0 Unfortunately, Carbotech made many =
excuses and denials when I brought this to their attention.=C2=A0=C2=A0 </s=
pan></p><p><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;c=
olor:rgb(51,51,51)">If the pad backing plate is held close in the slot, the=
 piston cannot get cocked as severely under hard braking.=C2=A0 Squaring of=
 pad surface may still be desirable at some point, but pay close attention =
between of the width of the backing plate and the caliper slot.=C2=A0=C2=A0=
 </span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-ser=
if;color:rgb(51,51,51)">I have found Hawk pads to be made with as close a c=
learance as factory pads and the same dimension on every order.=C2=A0 No va=
riations.=C2=A0 The Hawk pads also have the same shape as factory pads, mor=
e like a pie cut.=C2=A0 Wider at the outer edge.=C2=A0 This helps compensat=
es for rotor surface speed and reduces uneven wear.=C2=A0 </span></p><p><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51=
,51)">I do like the feel of the Carbotechs, but I cannot rely on their qual=
ity control. </span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Helvet=
ica,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">As you apply the brakes, the piston ext=
ends.=C2=A0 If the pad can move greatly within the caliper slot, the piston=
 with take the side load, not the backing plate of the pad as it should.=C2=
=A0 If the backing plate is not square, the pad will also rotate a little.=
=C2=A0 Definitely not good. </span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;fon=
t-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Beware, </span></p><p><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,5=
1,51)">Dave H. </span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Helv=
etica,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)"> =C2=A0 </span></p><blockquote><p cla=
ss=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">On July 21, 2019 at =
12:27 PM Phil Gott via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=
=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote: <br><br>The pads wear unevenl=
y both radially and a bit circumferentially due to different surface speeds=
 and friction forces. As the pads wear unevenly they =E2=80=9Ccock=E2=80=9D=
 in the caliper and bind up. The more wear, the greater the binding.=C2=A0<=
/p><div><p class=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">Using =
some sort of a device (surface grinder, drill press etc with a good dust co=
llector and mask for the operator) to make the face of the friction materia=
l parallel to the backing plate solves this issue.</p></div><div><p class=
=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">Yes, this does change =
the surface of the pad presented to the rotor. I do not change rotors as th=
ey are in good shape. Any small to microscopic irregularities between the t=
wo quickly get dealt with during the first session out after squaring the p=
ads. This would be the same as putting new pads on the car with the old rot=
ors. Just treat the first few laps as if you are bedding in new brakes, whi=
ch to some extent you are (except for temperature effects).</p></div><div><=
p class=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">Different from =
a street machine where rust and grit take their toll in the rotor surface.<=
/p></div><div><p class=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">=
Phil Gott</p></div><div><p class=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-M=
soNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt">114 TR4A</p><p class=3D"gmail-m_9170=
696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal">Sent from my iPhone</p><div><p class=
=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom=
:12pt"><br>On Jul 21, 2019, at 10:33 AM, ralph hansen via Fot &lt; <a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;=
 wrote:</p></div><blockquote><div><div><p class=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436=
ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetic=
a,sans-serif">=C2=A0 </span></p></div><div><p class=3D"gmail-m_917069652848=
8436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Helv=
etica,sans-serif">=C2=A0 </span></p></div><div><p class=3D"gmail-m_91706965=
28488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:=
Helvetica,sans-serif">not to rain on the parade but, are you turning the ro=
tors each time to make sure they are square also? if not, you now have unma=
tched surfaces - in the old days with good metal rotors I could see a sligh=
t advantage, these days with the good pads we get, and soft rotors they wea=
r together, you might actually get a very slight increase in surface contac=
t due to the angles and dangles - and, as you machine the rotors you lose m=
ass, the all important heat sink that makes brakes work.... </span></p></di=
v><div><p class=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> =C2=A0 </span></p=
></div><div><p class=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">=C2=A0 </span=
></p></div><div><div><p class=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoN=
ormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color=
:rgb(38,40,42)">On Saturday, July 20, 2019, 07:19:46 PM CDT, Mathieu W. Huo=
vinen via Fot &lt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote: </span></p></div><div><p class=3D"gmail-m=
_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;fon=
t-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"> =C2=A0 </span></p></div=
><div><p class=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"=
> =C2=A0 </span></p></div><div><p><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family=
:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">=C2=A0 </span></p><p><span style=
=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">Sq=
uaring up the pads? Please tell me more, I&#39;m still learning. Thanks! </=
span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;=
color:rgb(38,40,42)">-Marhieu </span></p><div><p class=3D"gmail-m_917069652=
8488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:H=
elvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">=C2=A0 </span></p></div><p class=
=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom=
:12pt"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color=
:rgb(38,40,42)">_______________________________________________ <br><a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener" target=3D"_blank">fot@autox=
.team.net</a> <br><br><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" rel=3D"noopener=
" target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a> <br><br>Donate: <a href=
=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" rel=3D"noopener" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://www.team.net/donate.html</a> <br>Archive: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.=
net/archive" rel=3D"noopener" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archi=
ve </a><a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot" rel=3D"noopener" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a> <br>Unsubscribe/Manage: =
<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]" rel=
=3D"noopener" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/q=
[email-masked]</a> <br><br> </span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><blo=
ckquote><div><p class=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal" s=
tyle=3D"margin-bottom:12pt">_______________________________________________=
<br><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked].=
net</a> <br><br><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://www.fot-racing.com</a> <br><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/d=
onate.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a> <br>Archi=
ve: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://auto=
x.team.net/archive</a> <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a> <br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <=
a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a>=
 <br><br></p></div></blockquote></div></blockquote><p class=3D"gmail-m_9170=
696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-default-style"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font=
-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)"><br>=C2=A0 </span></p><bl=
ockquote><p class=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da09d-MsoNormal" style=
=3D"margin-bottom:12pt">_______________________________________________ <br=
><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
</a> <br><br><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" target=3D"_blank">http:/=
/www.fot-racing.com</a> <br><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/dona=
te.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a> <br>Archive:=
 <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.t=
eam.net/archive</a> <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot" target=3D=
"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a> <br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a h=
ref=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]<=
/a> <br><br></p></blockquote><p class=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436ox-f2c81da=
09d-default-style"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans=
-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)"><br>=C2=A0 </span></p></div></div></blockquote>=
</blockquote><p style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-se=
rif;color:rgb(51,51,51)" class=3D"gmail-m_9170696528488436default-style"><b=
r>=C2=A0</p>
 </div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span>______=
_________________________________________</span><br><span><a href=3D"mailto=
:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a></span><br><sp=
an></span><br><span><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>http://www.fot-racing.com</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>Donate: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.=
net/donate.html</a></span><br><span>Archive: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.n=
et/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a href=3D"=
http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pi=
permail/fot</a></span><br><span>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox=
.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">http://=
autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a></span><br><span><=
/span><br><span></span><br></div></blockquote></div></div>_________________=
______________________________<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]<=
/a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">=
http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br>
<br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a href=3D"http://www.team.n=
et/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tp://www.team.net/pipermail/fot<br>
t/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.te=
am.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>

--0000000000005e130f058e806afe--

--===============1843278736627841888==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

--===============1843278736627841888==--