Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni

From: fubog1 via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 16:51:57 +0000 (UTC)

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 These are some words of wisdom...Glenps- I've found different size holes i=
n the float valves, also grose jets are particularly restrictive.

The SU's are so simple minded and easy to work with I'd want to very certai=
n that the was a BIG benifit before changing to jetted carbs that need a to=
n of parts of you are going to make use of the capacity of the units.
=20
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Kas Kastner <[email-masked]>
To: fubog1 <[email-masked]>
Cc: Van Mulders Marcel <[email-masked]>; FOT <[email-masked]=
.net>
Sent: Fri, Oct 19, 2018 12:32 pm
Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni

Lots of times at the higher revs the float bowls of the S.U.'s just run out=
 of gas and they need an enlargment of the needle and seat.Many times the s=
tock needle and seat j ust does not have enough capacity to flow the fuel n=
eeded for the much richer needles used and the revvs. The SU's are so simpl=
e minded and easy to work with I'd want to very certain that the was a BIG =
benifit before changing to jetted carbs that need a ton of parts of you are=
 going to make use of the capacity of the units.
=C2=A0If you do not tune for the day and the weather at that time what is t=
he point in having all that adustment. With the SU a couple flats adjustmen=
t up or down and you are done the hour. Bigger machinery does not mean bigg=
er power or even more useful power.
BUT, if you are going for the expensive route, get the msot you can get.=C2=
=A0 DCOE 45's are the ticket. Start with a small venturi and work up from t=
here. Yes, you neeed to buy=C2=A0 alterate venturies otherwise you have jus=
t wasted your money.These same carbs were used on the Sebring and Le Mans S=
pitfire coupes 1147 cc engines=C2=A0 and proved 3% more power by tuning. To=
 get the benifit you need to work at it.
Never be beaten by equipment.

On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 9:01 AM fubog1 via Fot <[email-masked]> wrote:

 Yes HS4 carbs.Glen
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: van.mulders.marcel <[email-masked]>
To: fubog1 <[email-masked]>
Cc: fot <[email-masked]>
Sent: Thu, Oct 18, 2018 5:48 pm
Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni

Glen,With 1 1/2s carburettors, I suppose you mean HS4? The SU logic is a li=
ttle weird. 1" + 1/2" =3D 6/8" so you would think it are HS6s, but when tal=
king about HS carburettors, 1 + 1/2 =3D 1 + 4/8 and they took the 4 to name=
 these carbs HS4...Marcel
Van: "fubog1" <[email-masked]>
Aan: "van mulders marcel" <[email-masked]>, "Mike Harmuth" <=
[email-masked]>
Cc: "fot" <[email-masked]>
Verzonden: Donderdag 18 oktober 2018 22:39:39
Onderwerp: Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni

 Well I won't speculate on the cause, but I doubt that it's the SUs.
My small crank 1300 w/1 1/2s on a eurospec manifold w/Stahls header, "big" =
valve head, would buzz easily to 9k, still making power, if I let it.Normal=
 shift point 7800-8000.FWIW...
Glen
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: van.mulders.marcel--- via Fot <[email-masked]>
To: Mike Harmuth <[email-masked]>
Cc: fot <[email-masked]>
Sent: Thu, Oct 18, 2018 2:12 pm
Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni

-"...hitting a wall at that point..." : is it possible this is rather point=
ing to the camshaft than to the SU's? If it are the carburettors, maybe the=
 power would decrease more gradually above 6500 rpm.-In general one choke p=
er cylinder is better, and 2 Webers 40 DCOE isn't overkill I think- what ab=
out trying HS6 SU's on your actual manifold?At what maximum rpm is your eng=
ine still reliable?Marcel
Van: "fot" <[email-masked]>
Aan: "fot" <[email-masked]>
Verzonden: Woensdag 17 oktober 2018 15:49:45
Onderwerp: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni

I'm looking into switching out my twin HS4s on the 1296 race engine to eith=
er Weber or Mukinis. I know this has been done for years and I'd like to ge=
t close the best set up out of the gate.=20

I don't think the SUs are up to the task of moving enough air with the new =
ported head and Stahl header. I've worked on the SUs and gotten them to fin=
ally deliver a good AFR , 12.6, at 6500 RPM under load but I seem to hit a =
wall (figuratively) at that point. I suspect that the openings just aren't =
big enough to deliver the mass of air required. (spreadsheet or other flow =
calculator link appreciated)
Biggest gate I suspect is the intake valve, 1 3/8" head (~35mm) HS4 is ~38m=
m at best.

Recommendations? I've seen all these setups at the track, each with pluses,=
 minuses and overkill cause it looks cool.=20

One weber DCOE 40 or 2? what jets, tubes etc for a starting point? Best man=
ifold?=20

2 or 4 Mikuni 40? jet size?
thanksmike

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<font color=3D'black' size=3D'2' face=3D'Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif'>
<div> <font size=3D"2">These are some words of wisdom...</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2">Glen</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2">ps- I've found different size holes in the float valv=
es, also grose jets are particularly restrictive.</font><br>
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black"><bloc=
kquote style=3D"border-left: 2px solid blue; padding-left: 3px;">The SU's a=
re so simple minded and easy to work with I'd want to very certain that the=
 was a BIG benifit before changing to jetted carbs that need a ton of parts=
 of you are going to make use of the capacity of the units.
<div></div>
</blockquote></div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br>
From: Kas Kastner &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
To: fubog1 &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Cc: Van Mulders Marcel &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; FOT &lt;fot@a=
utox.team.net&gt;<br>
Sent: Fri, Oct 19, 2018 12:32 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni<br>
<br>

<div id=3D"yiv6253483699">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Lots of times at the higher revs the float bowls of the S.=
U.'s just run out of gas and they need an enlargment of the needle and seat=
.Many times the stock needle and seat j ust does not have enough capacity t=
o flow the fuel needed for the much richer needles used and the revvs. The =
SU's are so simple minded and easy to work with I'd want to very certain th=
at the was a BIG benifit before changing to jetted carbs that need a ton of=
 parts of you are going to make use of the capacity of the units.
<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div>&nbsp;If you do not tune for the day and the weather at that time what=
 is the point in having all that adustment. With the SU a couple flats adju=
stment up or down and you are done the hour. Bigger machinery does not mean=
 bigger power or even more useful power.
<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div>BUT, if you are going for the expensive route, get the msot you can ge=
t.&nbsp; DCOE 45's are the ticket. Start with a small venturi and work up f=
rom there. Yes, you neeed to buy&nbsp; alterate venturies otherwise you hav=
e just wasted your money.These same carbs were used on the Sebring and Le M=
ans Spitfire coupes 1147 cc engines&nbsp; and proved 3% more power by tunin=
g. To get the benifit you need to work at it.<br clear=3D"all">
<div>
<div class=3D"yiv6253483699gmail_signature" dir=3D"ltr">
<div><strong><font color=3D"#000099">Never be beaten by equipment.</font></=
strong></div>
</div>
</div>
<br clear=3D"none"></div>
</div>
</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div class=3D"yiv6253483699gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"yiv6253483699yqt4822778474" id=3D"yiv6253483699yqtfd10159">
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 9:01 AM fubog1 via Fot &lt;<a rel=
=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
t" target=3D"_blank" removedlink__d3850202-27d3-4d9b-8e9d-72b22d51d36b__hre=
f=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear=
=3D"none"></div>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"yiv6253483699gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;b=
order-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div class=3D"yiv6253483699yqt4822778474" id=3D"yiv6253483699yqtfd33561"><f=
ont size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color=3D"black">
</font>
<div> <font size=3D"2">Yes HS4 carbs.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2">Glen</font><br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div> <br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div> <br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black;">---=
--Original Message-----<br clear=3D"none">
From: van.mulders.marcel &lt;<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" =
ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" removedl=
ink__d3850202-27d3-4d9b-8e9d-72b22d51d36b__href=3D"mailto:van.mulders.marce=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
To: fubog1 &lt;<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mai=
lto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" removedlink__d3850202-27d3-4d9b-8e9d-=
72b22d51d36b__href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br clea=
r=3D"none">
Cc: fot &lt;<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto=
:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" removedlink__d3850202-27d3-4d9b-8e9d=
-72b22d51d36b__href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt=
;<br clear=3D"none">
Sent: Thu, Oct 18, 2018 5:48 pm<br clear=3D"none">
Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">

<div id=3D"yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv7557179423">

<div>

<div style=3D"font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:1=
0pt;color:#000000;">

<div>Glen,</div>

<div>With 1 1/2s carburettors, I suppose you mean HS4? The SU logic is a li=
ttle weird. 1" + 1/2" =3D 6/8" so you would think it are HS6s, but when tal=
king about HS carburettors, 1 + 1/2 =3D 1 + 4/8 and they took the 4 to name=
 these carbs HS4...</div>

<div>Marcel</div>

<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<hr id=3D"yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv7557179423zwchr">

<div class=3D"yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv7557179423yqt0596148954=
" id=3D"yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv7557179423yqt61649">

<div><b>Van: </b>"fubog1" &lt;<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect"=
 ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" removedlink__d3850202-=
27d3-4d9b-8e9d-72b22d51d36b__href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]<=
/a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none"><b>Aan: </b>"van mulders marcel" &lt;<a rel=3D"no=
opener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:van.mulders.marcel@tele=
net.be" target=3D"_blank" removedlink__d3850202-27d3-4d9b-8e9d-72b22d51d36b=
__href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">van.mulders.marcel@telenet.=
be</a>&gt;, "Mike Harmuth" &lt;<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect=
" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" removedlink__d3850=
202-27d3-4d9b-8e9d-72b22d51d36b__href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">ofracer@=
gmail.com</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none"><b>Cc: </b>"fot" &lt;<a rel=3D"noopener=
 noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D=
"_blank" removedlink__d3850202-27d3-4d9b-8e9d-72b22d51d36b__href=3D"mailto:=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none"><b>Verzond=
en: </b>Donderdag 18 oktober 2018 22:39:39<br clear=3D"none"><b>Onderwerp: =
</b>Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni<br clear=3D"none"></div>

<br clear=3D"none">

<div><span style=3D"color:black;font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:small;">
</span>

<div> <span style=3D"font-size:small;">Well I won't speculate on the cause,=
 but I doubt that it's the SUs.<br clear=3D"none">
</span></div>

<div><span style=3D"font-size:small;">My small crank 1300 w/1 1/2s on a eur=
ospec manifold w/Stahls header, "big" valve head, would buzz easily to 9k, =
still making power, if I let it.</span></div>

<div><span style=3D"font-size:small;">Normal shift point 7800-8000.</span><=
/div>

<div><span style=3D"font-size:small;">FWIW...<br clear=3D"none">
</span></div>

<div><span style=3D"font-size:small;">Glen</span><br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div> <br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div> <br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black;">---=
--Original Message-----<br clear=3D"none">
From: van.mulders.marcel--- via Fot &lt;<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shap=
e=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" removedl=
ink__d3850202-27d3-4d9b-8e9d-72b22d51d36b__href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
t">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
To: Mike Harmuth &lt;<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" removedlink__d3850202-27d3-=
4d9b-8e9d-72b22d51d36b__href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
Cc: fot &lt;<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto=
:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" removedlink__d3850202-27d3-4d9b-8e9d=
-72b22d51d36b__href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt=
;<br clear=3D"none">
Sent: Thu, Oct 18, 2018 2:12 pm<br clear=3D"none">
Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">

<div id=3D"yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv7557179423">

<div>

<div style=3D"font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:1=
0pt;color:#000000;">

<div>-"...hitting a wall at that point..." : is it possible this is rather =
pointing to the camshaft than to the SU's? If it are the carburettors, mayb=
e the power would decrease more gradually above 6500 rpm.</div>

<div>-In general one choke per cylinder is better, and 2 Webers 40 DCOE isn=
't overkill I think</div>

<div>- what about trying HS6 SU's on your actual manifold?</div>

<div>At what maximum rpm is your engine still reliable?</div>

<div>Marcel</div>

<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<hr id=3D"yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv7557179423zwchr">

<div class=3D"yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv7557179423yqt0105059393=
" id=3D"yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv7557179423yqt73080">

<div><b>Van: </b>"fot" &lt;<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ym=
ailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" removedlink__d3850202=
-27d3-4d9b-8e9d-72b22d51d36b__href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">fot@autox.=
team.net</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none"><b>Aan: </b>"fot" &lt;<a rel=3D"noopener=
 noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D=
"_blank" removedlink__d3850202-27d3-4d9b-8e9d-72b22d51d36b__href=3D"mailto:=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none"><b>Verzond=
en: </b>Woensdag 17 oktober 2018 15:49:45<br clear=3D"none"><b>Onderwerp: <=
/b>[Fot] Weber vs Mikuni<br clear=3D"none"></div>

<br clear=3D"none">

<div>

<div dir=3D"ltr">

<div>I'm looking into switching out my twin HS4s on the 1296 race engine to=
 either Weber or Mukinis. I know this has been done for years and I'd like =
to get close the best set up out of the gate. <br clear=3D"none"></div>

<br clear=3D"none">

<div>I don't think the SUs are up to the task of moving enough air with the=
 new ported head and Stahl header. I've worked on the SUs and gotten them t=
o finally deliver a good AFR , 12.6, at 6500 RPM under load but I seem to h=
it a wall (figuratively) at that point. I suspect that the openings just ar=
en't big enough to deliver the mass of air required. (spreadsheet or other =
flow calculator link appreciated)<br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div>Biggest gate I suspect is the intake valve, 1 3/8" head (~35mm) HS4 is=
 ~38mm at best.<br clear=3D"none"></div>

<br clear=3D"none">

<div>Recommendations? I've seen all these setups at the track, each with pl=
uses, minuses and overkill cause it looks cool. <br clear=3D"none"></div>

<br clear=3D"none">

<div>One weber DCOE 40 or 2? what jets, tubes etc for a starting point? Bes=
t manifold? <br clear=3D"none"></div>

<br clear=3D"none">

<div>2 or 4 Mikuni 40? jet size?</div>

<br clear=3D"none">

<div>thanks</div>

<div>mike<br clear=3D"none"></div>

</div>

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------=_Part_244880_935762842.1539967917634--

--===============6188906649492423267==
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_______________________________________________
[email-masked]

http://www.fot-racing.com

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot

--===============6188906649492423267==--

---

From: Mike Harmuth via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 20:21:01 -0400

--===============7668830603560079374==

--000000000000848bfc05789dffc8

Thanks for all the great input. I think I'll stay with the SU's for now and
spend the money on Dyno time to see where the issue may be.

mike h

On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 7:13 PM fubog1 via Fot <[email-masked]> wrote:

> These are some words of wisdom...
> Glen
> ps- I've found different size holes in the float valves, also grose jets
> are particularly restrictive.
>
> The SU's are so simple minded and easy to work with I'd want to very
> certain that the was a BIG benifit before changing to jetted carbs that
> need a ton of parts of you are going to make use of the capacity of the
> units.
>
>
>
>
> Cc: Van Mulders Marcel <[email-masked]>; FOT <
> [email-masked]>
> Lots of times at the higher revs the float bowls of the S.U.'s just run
> out of gas and they need an enlargment of the needle and seat.Many times
> the stock needle and seat j ust does not have enough capacity to flow the
> fuel needed for the much richer needles used and the revvs. The SU's are so
> simple minded and easy to work with I'd want to very certain that the was a
> BIG benifit before changing to jetted carbs that need a ton of parts of you
> are going to make use of the capacity of the units.
>
>  If you do not tune for the day and the weather at that time what is the
> point in having all that adustment. With the SU a couple flats adjustment
> up or down and you are done the hour. Bigger machinery does not mean bigger
> power or even more useful power.
>
> BUT, if you are going for the expensive route, get the msot you can get.
> DCOE 45's are the ticket. Start with a small venturi and work up from
> there. Yes, you neeed to buy  alterate venturies otherwise you have just
> wasted your money.These same carbs were used on the Sebring and Le Mans
> Spitfire coupes 1147 cc engines  and proved 3% more power by tuning. To get
> the benifit you need to work at it.
> *Never be beaten by equipment.*
>
>
> Yes HS4 carbs.
> Glen,
> With 1 1/2s carburettors, I suppose you mean HS4? The SU logic is a little
> weird. 1" + 1/2" = 6/8" so you would think it are HS6s, but when talking
> about HS carburettors, 1 + 1/2 = 1 + 4/8 and they took the 4 to name these
> carbs HS4...
> Marcel
>
> ------------------------------
> *Van: *"fubog1" <[email-masked]>
> *Aan: *"van mulders marcel" <[email-masked]>, "Mike
> Harmuth" <[email-masked]>
> *Cc: *"fot" <[email-masked]>
> *Verzonden: *Donderdag 18 oktober 2018 22:39:39
> *Onderwerp: *Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni
>
> My small crank 1300 w/1 1/2s on a eurospec manifold w/Stahls header, "big"
> valve head, would buzz easily to 9k, still making power, if I let it.
> Normal shift point 7800-8000.
> FWIW...
> Glen
>
>
> -"...hitting a wall at that point..." : is it possible this is rather
> pointing to the camshaft than to the SU's? If it are the carburettors,
> maybe the power would decrease more gradually above 6500 rpm.
> -In general one choke per cylinder is better, and 2 Webers 40 DCOE isn't
> overkill I think
> - what about trying HS6 SU's on your actual manifold?
> At what maximum rpm is your engine still reliable?
> Marcel
>
> ------------------------------
> *Van: *"fot" <[email-masked]>
> *Aan: *"fot" <[email-masked]>
> *Verzonden: *Woensdag 17 oktober 2018 15:49:45
> *Onderwerp: *[Fot] Weber vs Mikuni
>
> I'm looking into switching out my twin HS4s on the 1296 race engine to
> either Weber or Mukinis. I know this has been done for years and I'd like
> to get close the best set up out of the gate.
>
> I don't think the SUs are up to the task of moving enough air with the new
> ported head and Stahl header. I've worked on the SUs and gotten them to
> finally deliver a good AFR , 12.6, at 6500 RPM under load but I seem to hit
> a wall (figuratively) at that point. I suspect that the openings just
> aren't big enough to deliver the mass of air required. (spreadsheet or
> other flow calculator link appreciated)
> Biggest gate I suspect is the intake valve, 1 3/8" head (~35mm) HS4 is
> ~38mm at best.
>
> Recommendations? I've seen all these setups at the track, each with
> pluses, minuses and overkill cause it looks cool.
>
> One weber DCOE 40 or 2? what jets, tubes etc for a starting point? Best
> manifold?
>
> thanks
> mike
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>
>
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>
>
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>
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>

--000000000000848bfc05789dffc8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Thanks for all the great input. I think I&#39;ll stay=
 with the SU&#39;s for now and spend the money on Dyno time to see where th=
e issue may be.</div><div><br></div><div>mike h<br></div></div><br><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 7:13 PM fubog1 =
via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt=
; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .=
8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><font color=3D"black" size=
=3D"2" face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">
<div> <font size=3D"2">These are some words of wisdom...</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2">ps- I&#39;ve found different size holes in the float =
valves, also grose jets are particularly restrictive.</font><br>
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black"><bloc=
kquote style=3D"border-left:2px solid blue;padding-left:3px">The SU&#39;s a=
re so simple minded and easy to work with I&#39;d want to very certain that=
 the was a BIG benifit before changing to jetted carbs that need a ton of p=
arts of you are going to make use of the capacity of the units.
<div></div>
</blockquote></div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br>
From: Kas Kastner &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_bl=
ank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
To: fubog1 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">fubog1@a=
ol.com</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: Van Mulders Marcel &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
 target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; FOT &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;=
<br>
Sent: Fri, Oct 19, 2018 12:32 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni<br>
<br>

<div id=3D"m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Lots of times at the higher revs the float bowls of the S.=
U.&#39;s just run out of gas and they need an enlargment of the needle and =
seat.Many times the stock needle and seat j ust does not have enough capaci=
ty to flow the fuel needed for the much richer needles used and the revvs. =
The SU&#39;s are so simple minded and easy to work with I&#39;d want to ver=
y certain that the was a BIG benifit before changing to jetted carbs that n=
eed a ton of parts of you are going to make use of the capacity of the unit=
s.
<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div>=C2=A0If you do not tune for the day and the weather at that time what=

<div>BUT, if you are going for the expensive route, get the msot you can ge=
t.=C2=A0 DCOE 45&#39;s are the ticket. Start with a small venturi and work =
up from there. Yes, you neeed to buy=C2=A0 alterate venturies otherwise you=
 have just wasted your money.These same carbs were used on the Sebring and =
Le Mans Spitfire coupes 1147 cc engines=C2=A0 and proved 3% more power by t=
uning. To get the benifit you need to work at it.<br clear=3D"all">
<div>
<div class=3D"m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699gmail_signature" dir=3D"ltr=
">
<div><strong><font color=3D"#000099">Never be beaten by equipment.</font></=
strong></div>
</div>
</div>
<br clear=3D"none"></div>
</div>
</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div class=3D"m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699yqt4822778474" id=3D"m_-245=
757380513494367yiv6253483699yqtfd10159">
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 9:01 AM fubog1 via Fot &lt;<a rel=
=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<b=
r clear=3D"none"></div>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class=3D"m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699yqt4822778474" id=3D"m_-245=
757380513494367yiv6253483699yqtfd33561"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial, Hel=
vetica, sans-serif" color=3D"black">
</font>
<div> <font size=3D"2">Yes HS4 carbs.</font></div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br clear=3D"none">
From: van.mulders.marcel &lt;<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
To: fubog1 &lt;<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">[email-masked]=
</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
Cc: fot &lt;<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">[email-masked]=
t</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
Sent: Thu, Oct 18, 2018 5:48 pm<br clear=3D"none">
Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">

<div id=3D"m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv75571=
79423">

<div>

<div style=3D"font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt=
;color:#000000">

<div>Glen,</div>

<div>With 1 1/2s carburettors, I suppose you mean HS4? The SU logic is a li=
ttle weird. 1&quot; + 1/2&quot; =3D 6/8&quot; so you would think it are HS6=
s, but when talking about HS carburettors, 1 + 1/2 =3D 1 + 4/8 and they too=
k the 4 to name these carbs HS4...</div>

<div>Marcel</div>

<hr id=3D"m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv755717=
9423zwchr">

<div class=3D"m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv75=
57179423yqt0596148954" id=3D"m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699m_-320437964=
3218842764yiv7557179423yqt61649">

<div><b>Van: </b>&quot;fubog1&quot; &lt;<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shap=
e=3D"rect">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none"><b>Aan: </b>&quot;van m=
ulders marcel&quot; &lt;<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">van.m=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;, &quot;Mike Harmuth&quot; &lt;<a rel=3D"no=
opener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"non=
e"><b>Cc: </b>&quot;fot&quot; &lt;<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"r=
ect">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none"><b>Verzonden: </b>Donderd=
ag 18 oktober 2018 22:39:39<br clear=3D"none"><b>Onderwerp: </b>Re: [Fot] W=
eber vs Mikuni<br clear=3D"none"></div>

<br clear=3D"none">

<div><span style=3D"color:black;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font=
-size:small">
</span>

<div> <span style=3D"font-size:small">Well I won&#39;t speculate on the cau=
se, but I doubt that it&#39;s the SUs.<br clear=3D"none">
</span></div>

<div><span style=3D"font-size:small">My small crank 1300 w/1 1/2s on a euro=
spec manifold w/Stahls header, &quot;big&quot; valve head, would buzz easil=
y to 9k, still making power, if I let it.</span></div>

<div><span style=3D"font-size:small">Normal shift point 7800-8000.</span></=
div>

<div><span style=3D"font-size:small">FWIW...<br clear=3D"none">
</span></div>

<div><span style=3D"font-size:small">Glen</span><br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br clear=3D"none">
From: van.mulders.marcel--- via Fot &lt;<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shap=
e=3D"rect">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
To: Mike Harmuth &lt;<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">ofracer@=
gmail.com</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
Cc: fot &lt;<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">[email-masked]=
t</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
Sent: Thu, Oct 18, 2018 2:12 pm<br clear=3D"none">
Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">

<div id=3D"m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv75571=
79423">

<div>

<div style=3D"font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt=
;color:#000000">

<div>-&quot;...hitting a wall at that point...&quot; : is it possible this =
is rather pointing to the camshaft than to the SU&#39;s? If it are the carb=
urettors, maybe the power would decrease more gradually above 6500 rpm.</di=
v>

<div>-In general one choke per cylinder is better, and 2 Webers 40 DCOE isn=
&#39;t overkill I think</div>

<div>- what about trying HS6 SU&#39;s on your actual manifold?</div>

<div>Marcel</div>

<hr id=3D"m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv755717=
9423zwchr">

<div class=3D"m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv75=
57179423yqt0105059393" id=3D"m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699m_-320437964=
3218842764yiv7557179423yqt73080">

<div><b>Van: </b>&quot;fot&quot; &lt;<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=
=3D"rect">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none"><b>Aan: </b>&quot;fo=
t&quot; &lt;<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">[email-masked]=
t</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none"><b>Verzonden: </b>Woensdag 17 oktober 2018 15:4=
9:45<br clear=3D"none"><b>Onderwerp: </b>[Fot] Weber vs Mikuni<br clear=3D"=
none"></div>

<br clear=3D"none">

<div>

<div dir=3D"ltr">

<div>I&#39;m looking into switching out my twin HS4s on the 1296 race engin=
e to either Weber or Mukinis. I know this has been done for years and I&#39=
;d like to get close the best set up out of the gate. <br clear=3D"none"></=
div>

<br clear=3D"none">

<div>I don&#39;t think the SUs are up to the task of moving enough air with=
 the new ported head and Stahl header. I&#39;ve worked on the SUs and gotte=
n them to finally deliver a good AFR , 12.6, at 6500 RPM under load but I s=
eem to hit a wall (figuratively) at that point. I suspect that the openings=
 just aren&#39;t big enough to deliver the mass of air required. (spreadshe=
et or other flow calculator link appreciated)<br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div>Biggest gate I suspect is the intake valve, 1 3/8&quot; head (~35mm) H=
S4 is ~38mm at best.<br clear=3D"none"></div>

<br clear=3D"none">

<div>Recommendations? I&#39;ve seen all these setups at the track, each wit=
h pluses, minuses and overkill cause it looks cool. <br clear=3D"none"></di=
v>

<br clear=3D"none">

<br clear=3D"none">

<br clear=3D"none">

<div>thanks</div>

</div>

<br clear=3D"none">_______________________________________________<br clear=
=3D"none"><a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">[email-masked]<=
/a><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" sha=
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</div>

</div>

</div>

</div>

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57179423yqt0105059393" id=3D"m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699m_-320437964=
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</div>

</div>

</div>

_______________________________________________<br clear=3D"none">
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ar=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
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757380513494367yiv6253483699yqtfd33882"><br clear=3D"none">
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</blockquote></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</font>_______________________________________________<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]<=
/a><br>
<br>
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--000000000000848bfc05789dffc8--

--===============7668830603560079374==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

--===============7668830603560079374==--

---

From: Phil Gott via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 07:58:34 -0400

--===============4445358481026553689==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

--Apple-Mail-27FB4D9B-C830-4BD0-8817-D28DDCEDEB1A
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Speaking of holes in float bowls, the exit hole at the bottom that feeds the=
 jet can also vary in size. Be sure it=E2=80=99s big enough and the hose to t=
he jet is not crimped or restricted in any way. Mike did say he got a decent=
 A/F ratio, so. It likely his issue, but it was with my TR.
Phil

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 19, 2018, at 8:21 PM, Mike Harmuth via Fot <[email-masked]> wro=
te:
>=20
> Thanks for all the great input. I think I'll stay with the SU's for now an=
d spend the money on Dyno time to see where the issue may be.
>=20
> mike h
>=20
>> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 7:13 PM fubog1 via Fot <[email-masked]> wrote=
:
>> ps- I've found different size holes in the float valves, also grose jets a=
re particularly restrictive.
>> The SU's are so simple minded and easy to work with I'd want to very cert=
ain that the was a BIG benifit before changing to jetted carbs that need a t=
on of parts of you are going to make use of the capacity of the units.
>> Cc: Van Mulders Marcel <[email-masked]>; FOT <[email-masked]=
am.net>
>> Lots of times at the higher revs the float bowls of the S.U.'s just run o=
ut of gas and they need an enlargment of the needle and seat.Many times the s=
tock needle and seat j ust does not have enough capacity to flow the fuel ne=
eded for the much richer needles used and the revvs. The SU's are so simple m=
inded and easy to work with I'd want to very certain that the was a BIG beni=
fit before changing to jetted carbs that need a ton of parts of you are goin=
g to make use of the capacity of the units.
>>=20
>>  If you do not tune for the day and the weather at that time what is the p=
oint in having all that adustment. With the SU a couple flats adjustment up o=
r down and you are done the hour. Bigger machinery does not mean bigger powe=
r or even more useful power.
>>=20
>> BUT, if you are going for the expensive route, get the msot you can get. =
 DCOE 45's are the ticket. Start with a small venturi and work up from there=
. Yes, you neeed to buy  alterate venturies otherwise you have just wasted y=
our money.These same carbs were used on the Sebring and Le Mans Spitfire cou=
pes 1147 cc engines  and proved 3% more power by tuning. To get the benifit y=
ou need to work at it.
>> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 9:01 AM fubog1 via Fot <[email-masked]> wrote=
:
>> With 1 1/2s carburettors, I suppose you mean HS4? The SU logic is a littl=
e weird. 1" + 1/2" =3D 6/8" so you would think it are HS6s, but when talking=
 about HS carburettors, 1 + 1/2 =3D 1 + 4/8 and they took the 4 to name thes=
e carbs HS4...
>> Aan: "van mulders marcel" <[email-masked]>, "Mike Harmuth"=
 <[email-masked]>
>> My small crank 1300 w/1 1/2s on a eurospec manifold w/Stahls header, "big=
" valve head, would buzz easily to 9k, still making power, if I let it.
>> -"...hitting a wall at that point..." : is it possible this is rather poi=
nting to the camshaft than to the SU's? If it are the carburettors, maybe th=
e power would decrease more gradually above 6500 rpm.
>> -In general one choke per cylinder is better, and 2 Webers 40 DCOE isn't o=
verkill I think
>> I'm looking into switching out my twin HS4s on the 1296 race engine to ei=
ther Weber or Mukinis. I know this has been done for years and I'd like to g=
et close the best set up out of the gate.=20
>>=20
>> I don't think the SUs are up to the task of moving enough air with the ne=
w ported head and Stahl header. I've worked on the SUs and gotten them to fi=
nally deliver a good AFR , 12.6, at 6500 RPM under load but I seem to hit a w=
all (figuratively) at that point. I suspect that the openings just aren't bi=
g enough to deliver the mass of air required. (spreadsheet or other flow cal=
culator link appreciated)
>> Biggest gate I suspect is the intake valve, 1 3/8" head (~35mm) HS4 is ~3=
8mm at best.
>>=20
>> Recommendations? I've seen all these setups at the track, each with pluse=
s, minuses and overkill cause it looks cool.=20
>>=20
>> One weber DCOE 40 or 2? what jets, tubes etc for a starting point? Best m=
anifold?=20
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/van.mulders=
[email-masked]
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/fubog1@aol.=
com
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/ofracer@gma=
il.com
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/vfracing@aol=
.com

--Apple-Mail-27FB4D9B-C830-4BD0-8817-D28DDCEDEB1A
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Speaking of holes in float bowls, the exit h=
ole at the bottom that feeds the jet can also vary in size. Be sure it=E2=80=
=99s big enough and the hose to the jet is not crimped or restricted in any w=
ay. Mike did say he got a decent A/F ratio, so. It likely his issue, but it w=
as with my TR.<div>Phil<br><br><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"ltr">Se=
nt from my iPhone</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Oct 19, 2018, at 8:21 PM, Mik=
e Harmuth via Fot &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
et</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr"><div>Thanks for all the great input. I think I'll stay with t=
he SU's for now and spend the money on Dyno time to see where the issue may b=
e.</div><div><br></div><div>mike h<br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 7:13 PM fubog1 via Fot &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><font color=3D"black" size=3D"2" face=3D"Aria=
l, Helvetica, sans-serif">
<div> <font size=3D"2">These are some words of wisdom...</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"2">ps- I've found different size holes in the float valve=
s, also grose jets are particularly restrictive.</font><br>
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black"><block=
quote style=3D"border-left:2px solid blue;padding-left:3px">The SU's are so s=
imple minded and easy to work with I'd want to very certain that the was a B=
IG benifit before changing to jetted carbs that need a ton of parts of you a=
re going to make use of the capacity of the units.
<div></div>
</blockquote></div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----O=
riginal Message-----<br>
From: Kas Kastner &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_bla=
nk">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
To: fubog1 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">fubog1@ao=
l.com</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: Van Mulders Marcel &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" t=
arget=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; FOT &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
Sent: Fri, Oct 19, 2018 12:32 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni<br>
<br>

<div id=3D"m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Lots of times at the higher revs the float bowls of the S.U=
.'s just run out of gas and they need an enlargment of the needle and seat.M=
any times the stock needle and seat j ust does not have enough capacity to f=
low the fuel needed for the much richer needles used and the revvs. The SU's=
 are so simple minded and easy to work with I'd want to very certain that th=
e was a BIG benifit before changing to jetted carbs that need a ton of parts=
 of you are going to make use of the capacity of the units.
<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div>&nbsp;If you do not tune for the day and the weather at that time what i=
s the point in having all that adustment. With the SU a couple flats adjustm=
ent up or down and you are done the hour. Bigger machinery does not mean big=
ger power or even more useful power.
<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div>BUT, if you are going for the expensive route, get the msot you can get=
.&nbsp; DCOE 45's are the ticket. Start with a small venturi and work up fro=
m there. Yes, you neeed to buy&nbsp; alterate venturies otherwise you have j=
ust wasted your money.These same carbs were used on the Sebring and Le Mans S=
pitfire coupes 1147 cc engines&nbsp; and proved 3% more power by tuning. To g=
et the benifit you need to work at it.<br clear=3D"all">
<div>
<div class=3D"m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699gmail_signature" dir=3D"ltr"=
<div><strong><font color=3D"#000099">Never be beaten by equipment.</font></s=
trong></div>
</div>
</div>
<br clear=3D"none"></div>
</div>
</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div class=3D"m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699yqt4822778474" id=3D"m_-2457=
57380513494367yiv6253483699yqtfd10159">
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 9:01 AM fubog1 via Fot &lt;<a rel=3D=
"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br cl=
ear=3D"none"></div>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class=3D"m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699yqt4822778474" id=3D"m_-2457=
57380513494367yiv6253483699yqtfd33561"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial, Helve=
tica, sans-serif" color=3D"black">
</font>
<div> <font size=3D"2">Yes HS4 carbs.</font></div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----O=
riginal Message-----<br clear=3D"none">
From: van.mulders.marcel &lt;<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">v=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
To: fubog1 &lt;<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">[email-masked]<=
/a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
Cc: fot &lt;<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">[email-masked]=
</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
Sent: Thu, Oct 18, 2018 5:48 pm<br clear=3D"none">
Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">

<div id=3D"m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv755717=
9423">

<div>

<div style=3D"font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;=
color:#000000">

<div>Glen,</div>

<div>With 1 1/2s carburettors, I suppose you mean HS4? The SU logic is a lit=
tle weird. 1" + 1/2" =3D 6/8" so you would think it are HS6s, but when talki=
ng about HS carburettors, 1 + 1/2 =3D 1 + 4/8 and they took the 4 to name th=
ese carbs HS4...</div>

<div>Marcel</div>

<hr id=3D"m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv7557179=
423zwchr">

<div class=3D"m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv755=
7179423yqt0596148954" id=3D"m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699m_-32043796432=
18842764yiv7557179423yqt61649">

<div><b>Van: </b>"fubog1" &lt;<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none"><b>Aan: </b>"van mulders marcel" &l=
t;<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">[email-masked]=
e</a>&gt;, "Mike Harmuth" &lt;<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none"><b>Cc: </b>"fot" &lt;<a rel=3D"n=
oopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"no=
ne"><b>Verzonden: </b>Donderdag 18 oktober 2018 22:39:39<br clear=3D"none"><=
b>Onderwerp: </b>Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni<br clear=3D"none"></div>

<br clear=3D"none">

<div><span style=3D"color:black;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-=
size:small">
</span>

<div> <span style=3D"font-size:small">Well I won't speculate on the cause, b=
ut I doubt that it's the SUs.<br clear=3D"none">
</span></div>

<div><span style=3D"font-size:small">My small crank 1300 w/1 1/2s on a euros=
pec manifold w/Stahls header, "big" valve head, would buzz easily to 9k, sti=
ll making power, if I let it.</span></div>

<div><span style=3D"font-size:small">Normal shift point 7800-8000.</span></d=
iv>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----O=
riginal Message-----<br clear=3D"none">
From: van.mulders.marcel--- via Fot &lt;<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=
=3D"rect">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
To: Mike Harmuth &lt;<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">ofracer@g=
mail.com</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
Cc: fot &lt;<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">[email-masked]=
</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
Sent: Thu, Oct 18, 2018 2:12 pm<br clear=3D"none">
Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">

<div id=3D"m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv755717=
9423">

<div>

<div style=3D"font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;=
color:#000000">

<div>-"...hitting a wall at that point..." : is it possible this is rather p=
ointing to the camshaft than to the SU's? If it are the carburettors, maybe t=
he power would decrease more gradually above 6500 rpm.</div>

<div>-In general one choke per cylinder is better, and 2 Webers 40 DCOE isn'=
t overkill I think</div>

<div>Marcel</div>

<hr id=3D"m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv7557179=
423zwchr">

<div class=3D"m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv755=
7179423yqt0105059393" id=3D"m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699m_-32043796432=
18842764yiv7557179423yqt73080">

<div><b>Van: </b>"fot" &lt;<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">fot=
@autox.team.net</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none"><b>Aan: </b>"fot" &lt;<a rel=3D"no=
opener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"non=
e"><b>Verzonden: </b>Woensdag 17 oktober 2018 15:49:45<br clear=3D"none"><b>=
Onderwerp: </b>[Fot] Weber vs Mikuni<br clear=3D"none"></div>

<br clear=3D"none">

<div>

<div dir=3D"ltr">

<div>I'm looking into switching out my twin HS4s on the 1296 race engine to e=
ither Weber or Mukinis. I know this has been done for years and I'd like to g=
et close the best set up out of the gate. <br clear=3D"none"></div>

<br clear=3D"none">

<div>I don't think the SUs are up to the task of moving enough air with the n=
ew ported head and Stahl header. I've worked on the SUs and gotten them to f=
inally deliver a good AFR , 12.6, at 6500 RPM under load but I seem to hit a=
 wall (figuratively) at that point. I suspect that the openings just aren't b=
ig enough to deliver the mass of air required. (spreadsheet or other flow ca=
lculator link appreciated)<br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div>Biggest gate I suspect is the intake valve, 1 3/8" head (~35mm) HS4 is ~=
38mm at best.<br clear=3D"none"></div>

<br clear=3D"none">

<div>Recommendations? I've seen all these setups at the track, each with plu=
ses, minuses and overkill cause it looks cool. <br clear=3D"none"></div>

<br clear=3D"none">

<div>One weber DCOE 40 or 2? what jets, tubes etc for a starting point? Best=
 manifold? <br clear=3D"none"></div>

<br clear=3D"none">

<br clear=3D"none">

<div>thanks</div>

</div>

<br clear=3D"none">_______________________________________________<br clear=3D=
"none"><a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">[email-masked]</a><=
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nate: <a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">http://www.team.net/dona=
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</div>

</div>

</div>

</div>

<div class=3D"m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv755=
7179423yqt0105059393" id=3D"m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699m_-32043796432=
18842764yiv7557179423yqt79273">_____________________________________________=
__<br clear=3D"none"><a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect">[email-masked]</=
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</div>

</div>

</div>

</div>

</div>

</div>

_______________________________________________<br clear=3D"none">
<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">[email-masked]</a><br clea=
r=3D"none">
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<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
</blockquote></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</font>_______________________________________________<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</=
a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">h=
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</blockquote></div>
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--Apple-Mail-27FB4D9B-C830-4BD0-8817-D28DDCEDEB1A--

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---

From: marty via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 15:25:00 +0000

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From: Tony Drews via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 12:09:46 -0500

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Good thought.  We had one where the tube to the jet had a little nick in 
the end which caused a flap that partially covered the end.  Only showed 
up under extended load, had a devil of a time finding the issue.

Tony

On 10/20/2018 6:58 AM, Phil Gott via Fot wrote:
> Speaking of holes in float bowls, the exit hole at the bottom that 
> feeds the jet can also vary in size. Be sure it’s big enough and the 
> hose to the jet is not crimped or restricted in any way. Mike did say 
> he got a decent A/F ratio, so. It likely his issue, but it was with my 
> TR.
> Phil
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 19, 2018, at 8:21 PM, Mike Harmuth via Fot <[email-masked] 
>
>> Thanks for all the great input. I think I'll stay with the SU's for 
>> now and spend the money on Dyno time to see where the issue may be.
>>
>> mike h
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 7:13 PM fubog1 via Fot <[email-masked] 
>>
>>     ps- I've found different size holes in the float valves, also
>>     grose jets are particularly restrictive.
>>
>>         The SU's are so simple minded and easy to work with I'd want
>>         to very certain that the was a BIG benifit before changing to
>>         jetted carbs that need a ton of parts of you are going to
>>         make use of the capacity of the units. 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     From: Kas Kastner <[email-masked]
>>     Cc: Van Mulders Marcel <[email-masked]
>>     Lots of times at the higher revs the float bowls of the S.U.'s
>>     just run out of gas and they need an enlargment of the needle and
>>     seat.Many times the stock needle and seat j ust does not have
>>     enough capacity to flow the fuel needed for the much richer
>>     needles used and the revvs. The SU's are so simple minded and
>>     easy to work with I'd want to very certain that the was a BIG
>>     benifit before changing to jetted carbs that need a ton of parts
>>      If you do not tune for the day and the weather at that time what
>>     is the point in having all that adustment. With the SU a couple
>>     flats adjustment up or down and you are done the hour. Bigger
>>     machinery does not mean bigger power or even more useful power.
>>
>>     BUT, if you are going for the expensive route, get the msot you
>>     can get.  DCOE 45's are the ticket. Start with a small venturi
>>     and work up from there. Yes, you neeed to buy  alterate venturies
>>     otherwise you have just wasted your money.These same carbs were
>>     used on the Sebring and Le Mans Spitfire coupes 1147 cc engines 
>>     and proved 3% more power by tuning. To get the benifit you need
>>     to work at it.
>>         With 1 1/2s carburettors, I suppose you mean HS4? The SU
>>         logic is a little weird. 1" + 1/2" = 6/8" so you would think
>>         it are HS6s, but when talking about HS carburettors, 1 + 1/2
>>         = 1 + 4/8 and they took the 4 to name these carbs HS4...
>>         Marcel
>>
>>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>         *Aan: *"van mulders marcel" <[email-masked]>,
>>         "Mike Harmuth" <[email-masked]>
>>         My small crank 1300 w/1 1/2s on a eurospec manifold w/Stahls
>>         header, "big" valve head, would buzz easily to 9k, still
>>         making power, if I let it.
>>         -"...hitting a wall at that point..." : is it possible this
>>         is rather pointing to the camshaft than to the SU's? If it
>>         are the carburettors, maybe the power would decrease more
>>         gradually above 6500 rpm.
>>         -In general one choke per cylinder is better, and 2 Webers 40
>>         DCOE isn't overkill I think
>>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>         I'm looking into switching out my twin HS4s on the 1296 race
>>         engine to either Weber or Mukinis. I know this has been done
>>         for years and I'd like to get close the best set up out of
>>         the gate.
>>
>>         I don't think the SUs are up to the task of moving enough air
>>         with the new ported head and Stahl header. I've worked on the
>>         SUs and gotten them to finally deliver a good AFR , 12.6, at
>>         6500 RPM under load but I seem to hit a wall (figuratively)
>>         at that point. I suspect that the openings just aren't big
>>         enough to deliver the mass of air required. (spreadsheet or
>>         Biggest gate I suspect is the intake valve, 1 3/8" head
>>         (~35mm) HS4 is ~38mm at best.
>>
>>         Recommendations? I've seen all these setups at the track,
>>         each with pluses, minuses and overkill cause it looks cool.
>>
>>         One weber DCOE 40 or 2? what jets, tubes etc for a starting
>>         point? Best manifold?
>>
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>>
>>
>
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>
>

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    <p>Good thought.  We had one where the tube to the jet had a little
      nick in the end which caused a flap that partially covered the
      end.  Only showed up under extended load, had a devil of a time
      finding the issue.</p>
    <p>Tony<br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/20/2018 6:58 AM, Phil Gott via
      Fot wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
      Speaking of holes in float bowls, the exit hole at the bottom that
      feeds the jet can also vary in size. Be sure it’s big enough and
      the hose to the jet is not crimped or restricted in any way. Mike
      did say he got a decent A/F ratio, so. It likely his issue, but it
      was with my TR.
      <div>Phil<br>
        <br>
        <div id="AppleMailSignature" dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div>
        <div dir="ltr"><br>
          On Oct 19, 2018, at 8:21 PM, Mike Harmuth via Fot &lt;<a
            href="mailto:[email-masked]" moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
          wrote:<br>
          <br>
        </div>
        <blockquote type="cite">
          <div dir="ltr">
            <div dir="ltr">
              <div>Thanks for all the great input. I think I'll stay
                with the SU's for now and spend the money on Dyno time
                to see where the issue may be.</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>mike h<br>
              </div>
            </div>
            <br>
            <div class="gmail_quote">
              <div dir="ltr">On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 7:13 PM fubog1 via
                Fot &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                  moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                wrote:<br>
              </div>
              <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
                .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><font
                  size="2" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"
                  color="black">
                  <div> <font size="2">These are some words of
                      wisdom...</font></div>
                  <div><font size="2">Glen</font></div>
                  <div><font size="2">ps- I've found different size
                      holes in the float valves, also grose jets are
                      particularly restrictive.</font><br>
                  </div>
                  <div
                    style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">
                    <blockquote style="border-left:2px solid
                      blue;padding-left:3px">The SU's are so simple
                      minded and easy to work with I'd want to very
                      certain that the was a BIG benifit before changing
                      to jetted carbs that need a ton of parts of you
                      are going to make use of the capacity of the
                      units.
                    </blockquote>
                  </div>
                  <div> <br>
                  </div>
                  <div> <br>
                  </div>
                  <div> <br>
                  </div>
                  <div
                    style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----Original
                    Message-----<br>
                    From: Kas Kastner &lt;<a
                      href="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
                    To: fubog1 &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                      target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
                    Cc: Van Mulders Marcel &lt;<a
                      href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                      target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;;
                    FOT &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                      target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
                    Sent: Fri, Oct 19, 2018 12:32 pm<br>
                    Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni<br>
                    <br>
                    <div id="m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699">
                      <div>
                        <div dir="ltr">Lots of times at the higher revs
                          the float bowls of the S.U.'s just run out of
                          gas and they need an enlargment of the needle
                          and seat.Many times the stock needle and seat
                          j ust does not have enough capacity to flow
                          the fuel needed for the much richer needles
                          used and the revvs. The SU's are so simple
                          minded and easy to work with I'd want to very
                          certain that the was a BIG benifit before
                          changing to jetted carbs that need a ton of
                          parts of you are going to make use of the
                          capacity of the units.
                          <div><br clear="none">
                          </div>
                          <div> If you do not tune for the day and the
                            weather at that time what is the point in
                            having all that adustment. With the SU a
                            couple flats adjustment up or down and you
                            are done the hour. Bigger machinery does not
                            mean bigger power or even more useful power.
                            <div><br clear="none">
                            </div>
                            <div>BUT, if you are going for the expensive
                              route, get the msot you can get.  DCOE
                              45's are the ticket. Start with a small
                              venturi and work up from there. Yes, you
                              neeed to buy  alterate venturies otherwise
                              you have just wasted your money.These same
                              carbs were used on the Sebring and Le Mans
                              Spitfire coupes 1147 cc engines  and
                              proved 3% more power by tuning. To get the
                              benifit you need to work at it.<br
                                clear="all">
                              <div>
                                <div
                                  class="m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699gmail_signature"
                                  dir="ltr">
                                  <div><strong><font color="#000099">Never
                                        be beaten by equipment.</font></strong></div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                              <br clear="none">
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                        <br clear="none">
                        <div
                          class="m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699gmail_quote">
                          <div
                            class="m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699yqt4822778474"
id="m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699yqtfd10159">
                            <div dir="ltr">On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 9:01
                              AM fubog1 via Fot &lt;<a rel="noopener
                                noreferrer" shape="rect"
                                moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                              wrote:<br clear="none">
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <blockquote
                            class="m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699gmail_quote"
                            style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
                            #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                            <div
                              class="m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699yqt4822778474"
id="m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699yqtfd33561"><font size="2"
                                face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"
                                color="black">
                              </font>
                              <div> <font size="2">Yes HS4 carbs.</font></div>
                              <div><font size="2">Glen</font><br
                                  clear="none">
                              </div>
                              <div> <br clear="none">
                              </div>
                              <div> <br clear="none">
                              </div>
                              <div
                                style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----Original
                                Message-----<br clear="none">
                                From: van.mulders.marcel &lt;<a
                                  rel="noopener noreferrer" shape="rect"
                                  moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br
                                  clear="none">
                                To: fubog1 &lt;<a rel="noopener
                                  noreferrer" shape="rect"
                                  moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br
                                  clear="none">
                                Cc: fot &lt;<a rel="noopener noreferrer"
                                  shape="rect" moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br
                                  clear="none">
                                Sent: Thu, Oct 18, 2018 5:48 pm<br
                                  clear="none">
                                Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni<br
                                  clear="none">
                                <br clear="none">
                                <div
id="m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv7557179423">
                                  <div>
                                    <div
style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">
                                      <div>Glen,</div>
                                      <div>With 1 1/2s carburettors, I
                                        suppose you mean HS4? The SU
                                        logic is a little weird. 1" +
                                        1/2" = 6/8" so you would think
                                        it are HS6s, but when talking
                                        about HS carburettors, 1 + 1/2 =
                                        1 + 4/8 and they took the 4 to
                                        name these carbs HS4...</div>
                                      <div>Marcel</div>
                                      <div><br clear="none">
                                      </div>
                                      <hr
id="m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv7557179423zwchr">
                                      <div
class="m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv7557179423yqt0596148954"
id="m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv7557179423yqt61649">
                                        <div><b>Van: </b>"fubog1" &lt;<a
                                            rel="noopener noreferrer"
                                            shape="rect"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br
                                            clear="none">
                                          <b>Aan: </b>"van mulders
                                          marcel" &lt;<a rel="noopener
                                            noreferrer" shape="rect"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;,
                                          "Mike Harmuth" &lt;<a
                                            rel="noopener noreferrer"
                                            shape="rect"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br
                                            clear="none">
                                          <b>Cc: </b>"fot" &lt;<a
                                            rel="noopener noreferrer"
                                            shape="rect"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br
                                            clear="none">
                                          <b>Verzonden: </b>Donderdag
                                          18 oktober 2018 22:39:39<br
                                            clear="none">
                                          <b>Onderwerp: </b>Re: [Fot]
                                          Weber vs Mikuni<br
                                            clear="none">
                                        </div>
                                        <br clear="none">
                                        <div><span
style="color:black;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"></span>
                                          <div> <span
                                              style="font-size:small">Well
                                              I won't speculate on the
                                              cause, but I doubt that
                                              it's the SUs.<br
                                                clear="none">
                                            </span></div>
                                          <div><span
                                              style="font-size:small">My
                                              small crank 1300 w/1 1/2s
                                              on a eurospec manifold
                                              w/Stahls header, "big"
                                              valve head, would buzz
                                              easily to 9k, still making
                                              power, if I let it.</span></div>
                                          <div><span
                                              style="font-size:small">Normal
                                              shift point 7800-8000.</span></div>
                                          <div><span
                                              style="font-size:small">FWIW...<br
                                                clear="none">
                                            </span></div>
                                          <div><span
                                              style="font-size:small">Glen</span><br
                                              clear="none">
                                          </div>
                                          <div> <br clear="none">
                                          </div>
                                          <div> <br clear="none">
                                          </div>
                                          <div
                                            style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----Original
                                            Message-----<br clear="none">
                                            From: van.mulders.marcel---
                                            via Fot &lt;<a rel="noopener
                                              noreferrer" shape="rect"
                                              moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br
                                              clear="none">
                                            To: Mike Harmuth &lt;<a
                                              rel="noopener noreferrer"
                                              shape="rect"
                                              moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br
                                              clear="none">
                                            Cc: fot &lt;<a rel="noopener
                                              noreferrer" shape="rect"
                                              moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br
                                              clear="none">
                                            Sent: Thu, Oct 18, 2018 2:12
                                            pm<br clear="none">
                                            Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber vs
                                            Mikuni<br clear="none">
                                            <br clear="none">
                                            <div
id="m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv7557179423">
                                              <div>
                                                <div
style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">
                                                  <div>-"...hitting a
                                                    wall at that
                                                    point..." : is it
                                                    possible this is
                                                    rather pointing to
                                                    the camshaft than to
                                                    the SU's? If it are
                                                    the carburettors,
                                                    maybe the power
                                                    would decrease more
                                                    gradually above 6500
                                                    rpm.</div>
                                                  <div>-In general one
                                                    choke per cylinder
                                                    is better, and 2
                                                    Webers 40 DCOE isn't
                                                    overkill I think</div>
                                                  <div>- what about
                                                    trying HS6 SU's on
                                                    your actual
                                                    manifold?</div>
                                                  <div>At what maximum
                                                    rpm is your engine
                                                    still reliable?</div>
                                                  <div>Marcel</div>
                                                  <div><br clear="none">
                                                  </div>
                                                  <hr
id="m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv7557179423zwchr">
                                                  <div
class="m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv7557179423yqt0105059393"
id="m_-245757380513494367yiv6253483699m_-3204379643218842764yiv7557179423yqt73080">
                                                    <div><b>Van: </b>"fot"
                                                      &lt;<a
                                                        rel="noopener
                                                        noreferrer"
                                                        shape="rect"
                                                        moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br
                                                        clear="none">
                                                      <b>Aan: </b>"fot"
                                                      &lt;<a
                                                        rel="noopener
                                                        noreferrer"
                                                        shape="rect"
                                                        moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br
                                                        clear="none">
                                                      <b>Verzonden: </b>Woensdag
                                                      17 oktober 2018
                                                      15:49:45<br
                                                        clear="none">
                                                      <b>Onderwerp: </b>[Fot]
                                                      Weber vs Mikuni<br
                                                        clear="none">
                                                    </div>
                                                    <br clear="none">
                                                    <div>
                                                      <div dir="ltr">
                                                        <div>I'm looking
                                                          into switching
                                                          out my twin
                                                          HS4s on the
                                                          1296 race
                                                          engine to
                                                          either Weber
                                                          or Mukinis. I
                                                          know this has
                                                          been done for
                                                          years and I'd
                                                          like to get
                                                          close the best
                                                          set up out of
                                                          the gate. <br
                                                          clear="none">
                                                        </div>
                                                        <br clear="none">
                                                        <div>I don't
                                                          think the SUs
                                                          are up to the
                                                          task of moving
                                                          enough air
                                                          with the new
                                                          ported head
                                                          and Stahl
                                                          header. I've
                                                          worked on the
                                                          SUs and gotten
                                                          them to
                                                          finally
                                                          deliver a good
                                                          AFR , 12.6, at
                                                          6500 RPM under
                                                          load but I
                                                          seem to hit a
                                                          wall
                                                          (figuratively)
                                                          at that point.
                                                          I suspect that
                                                          the openings
                                                          just aren't
                                                          big enough to
                                                          deliver the
                                                          mass of air
                                                          required.
                                                          (spreadsheet
                                                          or other flow
                                                          calculator
                                                          link
                                                          appreciated)<br
                                                          clear="none">
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div>Biggest
                                                          gate I suspect
                                                          is the intake
                                                          valve, 1 3/8"
                                                          head (~35mm)
                                                          HS4 is ~38mm
                                                          at best.<br
                                                          clear="none">
                                                        </div>
                                                        <br clear="none">
                                                        <div>Recommendations?
                                                          I've seen all
                                                          these setups
                                                          at the track,
                                                          each with
                                                          pluses,
                                                          minuses and
                                                          overkill cause
                                                          it looks cool.
                                                          <br
                                                          clear="none">
                                                        </div>
                                                        <br clear="none">
                                                        <div>One weber
                                                          DCOE 40 or 2?
                                                          what jets,
                                                          tubes etc for
                                                          a starting
                                                          point? Best
                                                          manifold? <br
                                                          clear="none">
                                                        </div>
                                                        <br clear="none">
                                                        <div>2 or 4
                                                          Mikuni 40? jet
                                                          size?</div>
                                                        <br clear="none">
                                                        <div>thanks</div>
                                                        <div>mike<br
                                                          clear="none">
                                                        </div>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <br clear="none">
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From: Ted Schumacher via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2018 11:27:51 -0400

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Marty, sorry to be late on this topic. Short course on Weber's - what 
makes them good is they are infinitely adjustable. What makes them bad 
is they are infinitely adjustable.  Ted

On 10/20/2018 11:25 AM, marty via Fot wrote:
>
> Interesting discussion on carbs. It was my  (lack of) understanding, 
> right, wrong or indifferent that Weber's were good for 10-15 hp over 
> SU's.  I know that's a pretty blanket statement. Sounds like that 
> might not be the case. That's always been one of my excuses for being 
> slow. 😊.
>
>
> Marty
>
>
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>
>

-- 
Ted Schumacher
[email-masked]
http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com
108 S. Jefferson St.
Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877
Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.)
Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada)
Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022

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<html>
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    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
  </head>
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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Marty, sorry to be late on this topic. 
      Short course on Weber's - what makes them good is they are
      infinitely adjustable. What makes them bad is they are infinitely
      adjustable.  Ted<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      On 10/20/2018 11:25 AM, marty via Fot wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
      <style type="text/css" style="display:none;"><!-- P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;} --></style>
      <div id="divtagdefaultwrapper"
style="font-size:12pt;color:#000000;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;"
        dir="ltr">
        <p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">Interesting discussion
          on carbs. It was my  (lack of) understanding, right, wrong or
          indifferent that Weber's were good for 10-15 hp over SU's.  I
          know that's a pretty blanket statement. Sounds like that might
          not be the case. That's always been one of my excuses for
          being slow. <span>😊. </span></p>
        <p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0"><br>
        </p>
        <p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">Marty</p>
        <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
          <div><font size="2" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"
              color="black">
              <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica; font-size:10pt;
                color:black">
                <div id="x_yiv6253483699">
                  <div>
                    <div class="x_yiv6253483699gmail_quote">
                      <blockquote class="x_yiv6253483699gmail_quote"
                        style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:1px #ccc
                        solid; padding-left:1ex">
                      </blockquote>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </font></div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>

</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Ted Schumacher
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com">http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com</a>
108 S. Jefferson St.
Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877
Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.)
Phone: 800.543.6648 (US &amp; Canada)
Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022</pre>
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From: Kas Kastner via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2018 11:00:21 -0700

--===============6989222419878520722==

--000000000000f0d6460578fd44ef
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Oh Yeah.  Make friends with your S.U.'s. If you are not going to take
advantage of the adjsutability for climate, temperature and humidity
changes you end up leaving power on the bench. As I said before with the
S.U, a couple flats change and you are set for a couple hours before more
weather change. No pump jet, no idle jet, no venturi size question, no
emulsion tube question, you are set for easy travel. :-)

On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:49 AM Ted Schumacher via Fot <[email-masked]=
wrote:

> makes them good is they are infinitely adjustable. What makes them bad is
> they are infinitely adjustable.  Ted
>
>
> right, wrong or indifferent that Weber's were good for 10-15 hp over SU's=
.
> I know that's a pretty blanket statement. Sounds like that might not be t=
he
> case. That's always been one of my excuses for being slow. =F0=9F=98=8A.
>
>
> Marty
>
>
>
> [email-masked]
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tedtsimx@br=
ight.net
>
>
> --
> Ted [email-masked]://www.tsimportedautomotive.com
> 108 S. Jefferson St.
> Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Oh Yeah.=C2=A0 Make friends with your S.U.&#39;s. If you a=
re not going to take advantage of the adjsutability for climate, temperatur=
e and humidity changes you end up leaving power on the bench. As I said bef=
ore with the S.U, a couple flats change and you are set for a couple hours =
before more weather change. No pump jet, no idle jet, no venturi size quest=
ion, no emulsion tube question, you are set for easy travel. :-)<br clear=
=3D"all"><div><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"=
gmail_signature"><p><strong><font color=3D"#000099">Never be beaten by equi=
pment.</font></strong></p></div></div><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:49 AM Ted Schumacher via Fo=
t &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrot=
e:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
 =20
   =20
 =20
  <div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">
    <div class=3D"m_-2944699649398449193moz-cite-prefix">Marty, sorry to be=
 late on this topic.=C2=A0
      Short course on Weber&#39;s - what makes them good is they are
      infinitely adjustable. What makes them bad is they are infinitely
      adjustable.=C2=A0 Ted<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      On 10/20/2018 11:25 AM, marty via Fot wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
     =20
     =20
      <div id=3D"m_-2944699649398449193divtagdefaultwrapper" style=3D"font-=
size:12pt;color:#000000;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif" dir=3D"lt=
r">
        <p style=3D"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">Interesting discussion
          on carbs. It was my=C2=A0 (lack of) understanding, right, wrong o=
r
          indifferent that Weber&#39;s were good for 10-15 hp over SU&#39;s=
.=C2=A0 I
          know that&#39;s a pretty blanket statement. Sounds like that migh=
t
          not be the case. That&#39;s always been one of my excuses for
          being slow. <span>=F0=9F=98=8A.=C2=A0</span></p>
        <p style=3D"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0"><br>
        </p>
        <p style=3D"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">Marty</p>
        <div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">
          <div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color=
=3D"black">
              <div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;colo=
r:black">
                <div id=3D"m_-2944699649398449193x_yiv6253483699">
                  <div>
                    <div class=3D"m_-2944699649398449193x_yiv6253483699gmai=
l_quote">
                      <blockquote class=3D"m_-2944699649398449193x_yiv62534=
83699gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pad=
ding-left:1ex">
                      </blockquote>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </font></div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class=3D"m_-2944699649398449193mimeAttachmentHeader"></fiel=
dset>
      <br>
      <pre>_______________________________________________
<a class=3D"m_-2944699649398449193moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>

<a class=3D"m_-2944699649398449193moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://www=
.fot-racing.com" target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a>

tp://www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate=
.html</a>
Archive: <a class=3D"m_-2944699649398449193moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"h=
ttp://www.team.net/pipermail/fot" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pip=
ermail/fot</a>
" href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]=
et</a>

</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <pre class=3D"m_-2944699649398449193moz-signature" cols=3D"72">--=20
Ted Schumacher
<a class=3D"m_-2944699649398449193moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>
<a class=3D"m_-2944699649398449193moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://www=
.tsimportedautomotive.com" target=3D"_blank">http://www.tsimportedautomotiv=
e.com</a>
108 S. Jefferson St.
Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877
Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.)
Phone: 800.543.6648 (US &amp; Canada)
Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022</pre>
  </div>

_______________________________________________<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]<=
/a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">=
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et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a><br>
[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.=
net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a><br>
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