Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni

From: "van.mulders.marcel--- via Fot" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 08:49:35 +0200 (CEST)

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-"...hitting a wall at that point..." : is it possible this is rather pointing to the camshaft than to the SU's? If it are the carburettors, maybe the power would decrease more gradually above 6500 rpm. 
-In general one choke per cylinder is better, and 2 Webers 40 DCOE isn't overkill I think 
- what about trying HS6 SU's on your actual manifold? 
At what maximum rpm is your engine still reliable? 
Marcel 

Van: "fot" <[email-masked]> 
Aan: "fot" <[email-masked]> 
Verzonden: Woensdag 17 oktober 2018 15:49:45 
Onderwerp: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni 

I'm looking into switching out my twin HS4s on the 1296 race engine to either Weber or Mukinis. I know this has been done for years and I'd like to get close the best set up out of the gate. 

I don't think the SUs are up to the task of moving enough air with the new ported head and Stahl header. I've worked on the SUs and gotten them to finally deliver a good AFR , 12.6, at 6500 RPM under load but I seem to hit a wall (figuratively) at that point. I suspect that the openings just aren't big enough to deliver the mass of air required. (spreadsheet or other flow calculator link appreciated) 
Biggest gate I suspect is the intake valve, 1 3/8" head (~35mm) HS4 is ~38mm at best. 

Recommendations? I've seen all these setups at the track, each with pluses, minuses and overkill cause it looks cool. 

One weber DCOE 40 or 2? what jets, tubes etc for a starting point? Best manifold? 

2 or 4 Mikuni 40? jet size? 

thanks 
mike 

_______________________________________________ 
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<html><body><div style=3D"font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-seri=
f; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000"><div>-"...hitting a wall at that point.=
.." : is it possible this is rather pointing to the camshaft than to the SU=
's? If it are the carburettors, maybe the power would decrease more gradual=
ly above 6500 rpm.</div><div>-In general one choke per cylinder is better, =
and 2 Webers 40 DCOE isn't overkill I think</div><div>- what about trying H=
S6 SU's on your actual manifold?</div><div>At what maximum rpm is your engi=
ne still reliable?</div><div>Marcel</div><div><br></div><hr id=3D"zwchr" da=
ta-marker=3D"__DIVIDER__"><div data-marker=3D"__HEADERS__"><b>Van: </b>"fot=
" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Aan: </b>"fot" &lt;[email-masked]&gt=
;<br><b>Verzonden: </b>Woensdag 17 oktober 2018 15:49:45<br><b>Onderwerp: <=
/b>[Fot] Weber vs Mikuni<br></div><br><div data-marker=3D"__QUOTED_TEXT__">=
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I'm looking into switching out my twin HS4s on the 12=
96 race engine to either Weber or Mukinis. I know this has been done for ye=
ars and I'd like to get close the best set up out of the gate. <br></div><b=
r><div>I don't think the SUs are up to the task of moving enough air with t=
he new ported head and Stahl header. I've worked on the SUs and gotten them=
 to finally deliver a good AFR , 12.6, at 6500 RPM under load but I seem to=
 hit a wall (figuratively) at that point. I suspect that the openings just =
aren't big enough to deliver the mass of air required. (spreadsheet or othe=
r flow calculator link appreciated)<br></div><div>Biggest gate I suspect is=
 the intake valve, 1 3/8" head (~35mm) HS4 is ~38mm at best.<br></div><br><=
div>Recommendations? I've seen all these setups at the track, each with plu=
ses, minuses and overkill cause it looks cool. <br></div><br><div>One weber=
 DCOE 40 or 2? what jets, tubes etc for a starting point? Best manifold? <b=
r></div><br><div>2 or 4 Mikuni 40? jet size?</div><br><div>thanks</div><div=
>mike<br></div></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>[email-masked]<b=
r><br>http://www.fot-racing.com<br><br>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.h=
tml<br>Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot<br>Unsubscribe/Manage: ht=
tp://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]<br></=
div></div></body></html>
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_______________________________________________
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Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot

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---

From: JAMES GRAY via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 13:17:51 -0600 (MDT)

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The Mikuni HSR's are great carbs, pretty much set it and forget it unless you change altitude a bunch.

Then it's just the main jet. I used them for 3 seasons until I developed a head that out flowed the stock intake manifold.

I did all sorts of welding and reshaping to the intake and just didn't get what I wanted out of it so I went to a pair of DCOE's on Cannon manifolds. I first tried the TWM manifold from Pierce and after some attempted fittings I declared it a piece of junk and went with the Cannon intake. ( Thanks Tony for that bit of advice )

Long story short, Mikuni HSR carbs are great but the manifolds will only flow some much.

jim g

> On October 18, 2018 at 12:49 AM "van.mulders.marcel--- via Fot" <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
>     ---------------------------------------------
>     Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>     Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
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<!DOCTYPE html>
<html><head>
    <meta charset=3D"UTF-8">
</head><body><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sa=
ns-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">The Mikuni HSR&#39;s are great carbs, pr=
etty much set it and forget it unless you change altitude a bunch.</p><p st=
yle=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: r=
gb(51, 51, 51);">Then it&#39;s just the main jet. I used them for 3 seasons=
 until I developed a head that out flowed the stock intake manifold.</p><p =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color:=
 rgb(51, 51, 51);">I did all sorts of welding and reshaping to the intake a=
nd just didn&#39;t get what I wanted out of it so I went to a pair of DCOE&=
#39;s on Cannon manifolds. I first tried the TWM manifold from Pierce and a=
fter some attempted fittings I declared it a piece of junk and went with th=
e Cannon intake. ( Thanks Tony for that bit of advice )</p><p style=3D"font=
-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, =
51);">Long story short, Mikuni HSR carbs are great but the manifolds will o=
nly flow some much.</p><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,=
 arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">jim g</p><blockquote type=3D"c=
ite">On October 18, 2018 at 12:49 AM &#34;van.mulders.marcel--- via Fot&#34=
; &#60;[email-masked]&#62; wrote: <br> <br><div style=3D"font-family: V=
erdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000;"><di=
v>-&#34;...hitting a wall at that point...&#34; : is it possible this is ra=
ther pointing to the camshaft than to the SU&#39;s? If it are the carburett=
ors, maybe the power would decrease more gradually above 6500 rpm.</div><di=
v>-In general one choke per cylinder is better, and 2 Webers 40 DCOE isn&#3=
9;t overkill I think</div><div>- what about trying HS6 SU&#39;s on your act=
ual manifold?</div><div>At what maximum rpm is your engine still reliable?<=
/div><div>Marcel</div><div><br></div><hr id=3D"ox-1082612c44-zwchr"><div><s=
trong>Van: </strong>&#34;fot&#34; &#60;[email-masked]&#62; <br> <strong=
>Aan: </strong>&#34;fot&#34; &#60;[email-masked]&#62; <br> <strong>Verz=
onden: </strong>Woensdag 17 oktober 2018 15:49:45 <br> <strong>Onderwerp: <=
/strong>[Fot] Weber vs Mikuni <br></div><br><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I&#3=
9;m looking into switching out my twin HS4s on the 1296 race engine to eith=
er Weber or Mukinis. I know this has been done for years and I&#39;d like t=
o get close the best set up out of the gate. <br></div><br><div>I don&#39;t=
 think the SUs are up to the task of moving enough air with the new ported =
head and Stahl header. I&#39;ve worked on the SUs and gotten them to finall=
y deliver a good AFR , 12.6, at 6500 RPM under load but I seem to hit a wal=
l (figuratively) at that point. I suspect that the openings just aren&#39;t=
 big enough to deliver the mass of air required. (spreadsheet or other flow=
 calculator link appreciated) <br></div><div>Biggest gate I suspect is the =
intake valve, 1 3/8&#34; head (~35mm) HS4 is ~38mm at best. <br></div><br><=
div>Recommendations? I&#39;ve seen all these setups at the track, each with=
 pluses, minuses and overkill cause it looks cool. <br></div><br><div>One w=
eber DCOE 40 or 2? what jets, tubes etc for a starting point? Best manifold=
? <br></div><br><div>2 or 4 Mikuni 40? jet size?</div><br><div>thanks</div>=
<div>mike <br></div></div><br>_____________________________________________=
__ <br>[email-masked] <br> <br>http://www.fot-racing.com <br> <br>Donat=
e: http://www.team.net/donate.html <br>Archive: http://www.team.net/piperma=
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[email-masked] <br></div></div></blockquote><p style=3D"font-s=
ize: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;" class=
=3D"default-style"><br>&#160;</p><blockquote type=3D"cite">________________=
_______________________________ <br>[email-masked] <br> <br>http://www.=
fot-racing.com <br> <br>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <br>Archive=
: http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot <br>Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.te=
am.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked] <br> <br> <br></blockqu=
ote><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; c=
olor: #333333;" class=3D"default-style"><br>&#160;</p></body></html>
=20
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From: Charly Mitchel via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 14:33:46 -0700

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Last season I ran triple Webbers on my TR6 and it ran slightly better =
than my PI setup.  This year I switched to 3 Z-S carbs and I ran every =
bit as good as the Webbers if not better.  The Webbers sound a lot =
different, raspier, so for sure you'll sound like you're making more =
power at the least. The PI was much smoother sounding, and the Z-S are =
very good sounding also.
Charly Mitchel
TR6 #44

----- Original Message -----=20
  From: van.mulders.marcel--- via Fot=20
  To: Mike Harmuth=20
  Cc: fot=20
  Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2018 11:49 PM
  Subject: Re: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni

  -"...hitting a wall at that point..." : is it possible this is rather =
pointing to the camshaft than to the SU's? If it are the carburettors, =
maybe the power would decrease more gradually above 6500 rpm.
  -In general one choke per cylinder is better, and 2 Webers 40 DCOE =
isn't overkill I think
  - what about trying HS6 SU's on your actual manifold?
  At what maximum rpm is your engine still reliable?
  Marcel

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----

  I'm looking into switching out my twin HS4s on the 1296 race engine to =
either Weber or Mukinis. I know this has been done for years and I'd =
like to get close the best set up out of the gate.=20

  I don't think the SUs are up to the task of moving enough air with the =
new ported head and Stahl header. I've worked on the SUs and gotten them =
to finally deliver a good AFR , 12.6, at 6500 RPM under load but I seem =
to hit a wall (figuratively) at that point. I suspect that the openings =
just aren't big enough to deliver the mass of air required. (spreadsheet =
or other flow calculator link appreciated)

  Biggest gate I suspect is the intake valve, 1 3/8" head (~35mm) HS4 is =
~38mm at best.

  Recommendations? I've seen all these setups at the track, each with =
pluses, minuses and overkill cause it looks cool.=20

  One weber DCOE 40 or 2? what jets, tubes etc for a starting point? =
Best manifold?=20

  thanks
  mike

  Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
  Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
  Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----

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<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.23588">
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Last season I ran triple Webbers on my =
TR6 and it=20
ran slightly better than my PI setup.&nbsp; This year I switched to 3 =
Z-S carbs=20
and I ran every bit as good as the Webbers if not better.&nbsp; The =
Webbers=20
sound a lot different, raspier, so for sure you'll sound like you're =
making more=20
power at the least.&nbsp;The PI was much smoother sounding, and the Z-S =
are very=20
good sounding also.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Charly Mitchel<BR>TR6 #44</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=[email-masked]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">van.mulders.marcel--- via Fot</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=[email-masked]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">Mike Harmuth</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A =
title=[email-masked]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">fot</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, October 17, =
2018 11:49=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Fot] Weber vs =
Mikuni</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: =
#000000; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
  <DIV>-"...hitting a wall at that point..." : is it possible this is =
rather=20
  pointing to the camshaft than to the SU's? If it are the carburettors, =
maybe=20
  the power would decrease more gradually above 6500 rpm.</DIV>
  <DIV>-In general one choke per cylinder is better, and 2 Webers 40 =
DCOE isn't=20
  overkill I think</DIV>
  <DIV>- what about trying HS6 SU's on your actual manifold?</DIV>
  <DIV>At what maximum rpm is your engine still reliable?</DIV>
  <DIV>Marcel</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <HR id=3Dzwchr data-marker=3D"__DIVIDER__">

  <DIV data-marker=3D"__HEADERS__"><B>Van: </B>"fot"=20
  &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<BR><B>Aan: </B>"fot"=20
  &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<BR><B>Verzonden: </B>Woensdag 17 oktober =
2018=20
  15:49:45<BR><B>Onderwerp: </B>[Fot] Weber vs Mikuni<BR></DIV><BR>
  <DIV data-marker=3D"__QUOTED_TEXT__">
  <DIV dir=3Dltr>
  <DIV>I'm looking into switching out my twin HS4s on the 1296 race =
engine to=20
  either Weber or Mukinis. I know this has been done for years and I'd =
like to=20
  get close the best set up out of the gate. <BR></DIV><BR>
  <DIV>I don't think the SUs are up to the task of moving enough air =
with the=20
  new ported head and Stahl header. I've worked on the SUs and gotten =
them to=20
  finally deliver a good AFR , 12.6, at 6500 RPM under load but I seem =
to hit a=20
  wall (figuratively) at that point. I suspect that the openings just =
aren't big=20
  enough to deliver the mass of air required. (spreadsheet or other flow =

  calculator link appreciated)<BR></DIV>
  <DIV>Biggest gate I suspect is the intake valve, 1 3/8" head (~35mm) =
HS4 is=20
  ~38mm at best.<BR></DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Recommendations? I've seen all these setups at the track, each =
with=20
  pluses, minuses and overkill cause it looks cool. <BR></DIV><BR>
  <DIV>One weber DCOE 40 or 2? what jets, tubes etc for a starting =
point? Best=20
  manifold? <BR></DIV><BR>
  <DIV>2 or 4 Mikuni 40? jet size?</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>thanks</DIV>
  =
<DIV>mike<BR></DIV></DIV><BR>____________________________________________=
___<BR>[email-masked]<BR><BR>http://www.fot-racing.com<BR><BR>Donate:=
=20
  http://www.team.net/donate.html<BR>Archive:=20
  http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot<BR>Unsubscribe/Manage:=20
  =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]<B=
R></DIV></DIV>
  <P>
  <HR>

  =
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>[email-masked].=
net<BR><BR>http://www.fot-racing.com<BR><BR>Donate:=20
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From: ralph hansen via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 22:39:23 +0000 (UTC)

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 gee, my 1147 with HS's puled all the way to 8k with a 4:11 gear - stock bo=
re block, head work, A6 cam - its not the carbs, its either timing or cam
    On =E2=80=8EThursday=E2=80=8E, =E2=80=8EOctober=E2=80=8E =E2=80=8E18=E2=
=80=8E, =E2=80=8E2018=E2=80=8E =E2=80=8E01=E2=80=8E:=E2=80=8E13=E2=80=8E:=
=E2=80=8E48=E2=80=8E =E2=80=8EPM=E2=80=8E =E2=80=8ECDT, van.mulders.marcel-=
-- via Fot <[email-masked]> wrote: =20
=20
 -"...hitting a wall at that point..." : is it possible this is rather poin=
ting to the camshaft than to the SU's? If it are the carburettors, maybe th=
e power would decrease more gradually above 6500 rpm.-In general one choke =
per cylinder is better, and 2 Webers 40 DCOE isn't overkill I think- what a=
bout trying HS6 SU's on your actual manifold?At what maximum rpm is your en=
gine still reliable?Marcel
Van: "fot" <[email-masked]>
Aan: "fot" <[email-masked]>
Verzonden: Woensdag 17 oktober 2018 15:49:45
Onderwerp: [Fot] Weber vs Mikuni

I'm looking into switching out my twin HS4s on the 1296 race engine to eith=
er Weber or Mukinis. I know this has been done for years and I'd like to ge=
t close the best set up out of the gate.=20

I don't think the SUs are up to the task of moving enough air with the new =
ported head and Stahl header. I've worked on the SUs and gotten them to fin=
ally deliver a good AFR , 12.6, at 6500 RPM under load but I seem to hit a =
wall (figuratively) at that point. I suspect that the openings just aren't =
big enough to deliver the mass of air required. (spreadsheet or other flow =
calculator link appreciated)
Biggest gate I suspect is the intake valve, 1 3/8" head (~35mm) HS4 is ~38m=
m at best.

Recommendations? I've seen all these setups at the track, each with pluses,=
 minuses and overkill cause it looks cool.=20

One weber DCOE 40 or 2? what jets, tubes etc for a starting point? Best man=
ifold?=20

thanksmike

[email-masked]

com

 =20
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<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"ydp154784e8yahoo-style-wrap" style=
=3D"font-family: Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px=
;"><div></div>
        <div>gee, my 1147 with HS's puled all the way to 8k with a 4:11 gea=
r - stock bore block, head work, A6 cam - its not the carbs, its either tim=
ing or cam</div><div><br></div>
       =20
        </div><div class=3D"ydpe7e79603yahoo_quoted" id=3D"ydpe7e79603yahoo=
_quoted_0115294811">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
                <div>
                    On =E2=80=8EThursday=E2=80=8E, =E2=80=8EOctober=E2=80=
=8E =E2=80=8E18=E2=80=8E, =E2=80=8E2018=E2=80=8E =E2=80=8E01=E2=80=8E:=E2=
=80=8E13=E2=80=8E:=E2=80=8E48=E2=80=8E =E2=80=8EPM=E2=80=8E =E2=80=8ECDT, v=
an.mulders.marcel--- via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><div id=3D"ydpe7e79603yiv4783538815"><div><div style=
=3D"font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:=
#000000;"><div>-"...hitting a wall at that point..." : is it possible this =
is rather pointing to the camshaft than to the SU's? If it are the carburet=
tors, maybe the power would decrease more gradually above 6500 rpm.</div><d=
iv>-In general one choke per cylinder is better, and 2 Webers 40 DCOE isn't=
 overkill I think</div><div>- what about trying HS6 SU's on your actual man=
ifold?</div><div>At what maximum rpm is your engine still reliable?</div><d=
iv>Marcel</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><hr id=3D"ydpe7e79603yiv478353=
8815zwchr"><div class=3D"ydpe7e79603yiv4783538815yqt3904850125" id=3D"ydpe7=
e79603yiv4783538815yqt49846"><div><b>Van: </b>"fot" &lt;[email-masked]&=
gt;<br clear=3D"none"><b>Aan: </b>"fot" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br clear=
=3D"none"><b>Verzonden: </b>Woensdag 17 oktober 2018 15:49:45<br clear=3D"n=
one"><b>Onderwerp: </b>[Fot] Weber vs Mikuni<br clear=3D"none"></div><br cl=
ear=3D"none"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I'm looking into switching out my t=
win HS4s on the 1296 race engine to either Weber or Mukinis. I know this ha=
s been done for years and I'd like to get close the best set up out of the =
gate. <br clear=3D"none"></div><br clear=3D"none"><div>I don't think the SU=
s are up to the task of moving enough air with the new ported head and Stah=
l header. I've worked on the SUs and gotten them to finally deliver a good =
AFR , 12.6, at 6500 RPM under load but I seem to hit a wall (figuratively) =
at that point. I suspect that the openings just aren't big enough to delive=
r the mass of air required. (spreadsheet or other flow calculator link appr=
eciated)<br clear=3D"none"></div><div>Biggest gate I suspect is the intake =
valve, 1 3/8" head (~35mm) HS4 is ~38mm at best.<br clear=3D"none"></div><b=
r clear=3D"none"><div>Recommendations? I've seen all these setups at the tr=
ack, each with pluses, minuses and overkill cause it looks cool. <br clear=
=3D"none"></div><br clear=3D"none"><div>One weber DCOE 40 or 2? what jets, =
tubes etc for a starting point? Best manifold? <br clear=3D"none"></div><br=
 clear=3D"none"><div>2 or 4 Mikuni 40? jet size?</div><br clear=3D"none"><d=
iv>thanks</div><div>mike<br clear=3D"none"></div></div>
<br clear=3D"none">_______________________________________________<br clear=
=3D"none">[email-masked]<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">http://ww=
w.fot-racing.com<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Donate: http://www.te=
am.net/donate.html<br clear=3D"none">Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail=
/fot<br clear=3D"none">Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/op=
tions/fot/[email-masked]<br clear=3D"none"></div></div></div=
></div></div><div class=3D"ydpe7e79603yqt3904850125" id=3D"ydpe7e79603yqt23=
489">_______________________________________________<br clear=3D"none"><a h=
ref=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=
=3D"rect">[email-masked]</a><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><a hr=
ef=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=
=3D"rect">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none=
">Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br clear=
=3D"none">Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot" target=3D"=
_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</=
a><br clear=3D"none">Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/m=
ailman/options/fot/[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" sha=
pe=3D"rect">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a><=
br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div></div>
            </div>
        </div></body></html>
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---

From: Rick Parent via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 12:17:25 +0000 (UTC)

--===============5336996630176135841==
	boundary="----=_Part_12650364_1909510752.1539951445695"

------=_Part_12650364_1909510752.1539951445695
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

What Ralph said............
I have some experience with carbs on Spifires so I will share about 2 cents=
 (meaning minimal, I could probably write a book) worth if you don't mind.=
=C2=A0Dual Webers look really cool but will move you up a class or in SVRA =
to the next group, my Dyno says don't do it, it's not worth it. Makuni's? f=
orget it, price and parts are a problem, everyone at the track has Weber pa=
rts on their trailer. 1 1/2 SU's will do 9000rpm on a 1296 I know for sure =
but they are a pain to straighten out the fuel curve throughout the RPM ran=
ge, don't try this one at home boys and girls, you will end up throwing the=
m through the window. The easiest thing to do is purchase a single Weber ma=
nifold and 45 DCOE, a 40 would work as well and maybe better depending on y=
our state of tune. I have a box full of manifolds, 2 are actually within 2h=
p of the dual Webers on the top with way more bottom and mid range one I fa=
bricated and the other was purchased but only runs to 7000rpm. I would be g=
lad to help with jetting when the time comes.
All the best!=20

    On Friday, October 19, 2018 4:53 AM, ralph hansen via Fot <[email-masked]=
am.net> wrote:
=20

  gee, my 1147 with HS's puled all the way to 8k with a 4:11 gear - stock b=
ore block, head work, A6 cam - its not the carbs, its either timing or cam

tt.net

  =20
------=_Part_12650364_1909510752.1539951445695
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; f=
ont-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font=
-size:16px"><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1539949984130_7456"><span id=3D"yu=
i_3_16_0_ym19_1_1539949984130_9159">What Ralph said............</span></div=
><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1539949984130_7456"><span><br></span></div><d=
iv id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1539949984130_7456" dir=3D"ltr"><span id=3D"yui_=
3_16_0_ym19_1_1539949984130_10854">I have some experience with carbs on Spi=
fires so I will share about 2 cents (meaning minimal, I could probably writ=
e a book) worth if you don't mind.&nbsp;</span>Dual Webers look really cool=
 but will move you up a class or in SVRA to the next group, my Dyno says do=
n't do it, it's not worth it. Makuni's? forget it, price and parts are a pr=
oblem, everyone at the track has Weber parts on their trailer. 1 1/2 SU's w=
ill do 9000rpm on a 1296 I know for sure but they are a pain to straighten =
out the fuel curve throughout the RPM range, don't try this one at home boy=
s and girls, you will end up throwing them through the window. The easiest =
thing to do is purchase a single Weber manifold and 45 DCOE, a 40 would wor=
k as well and maybe better depending on your state of tune. I have a box fu=
ll of manifolds, 2 are actually within 2hp of the dual Webers on the top wi=
th way more bottom and mid range one I fabricated and the other was purchas=
ed but only runs to 7000rpm. I would be glad to help with jetting when the =
time comes.</div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1539949984130_7456" dir=3D"lt=
r"><br></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1539949984130_7456" dir=3D"ltr">A=
ll the best!</div> <div class=3D"qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class=3D=
"yahoo_quoted" style=3D"display: block;"> <div style=3D"font-family: Helvet=
ica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <=
div style=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, =
Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"><font size=
=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"> On Friday, October 19, 2018 4:53 AM, ralph hansen vi=
a Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br></font></div>  <br><br> <div cla=
ss=3D"y_msg_container"><div id=3D"yiv2262750899"><div><div class=3D"yiv2262=
750899ydp154784e8yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica Neue, Hel=
vetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><div></div>
        <div>gee, my 1147 with HS's puled all the way to 8k with a 4:11 gea=
r - stock bore block, head work, A6 cam - its not the carbs, its either tim=
ing or cam</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
       =20
        </div><div class=3D"yiv2262750899ydpe7e79603yahoo_quoted" id=3D"yiv=
2262750899ydpe7e79603yahoo_quoted_0115294811">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
                <div class=3D"yiv2262750899yqt7631504929" id=3D"yiv22627508=
99yqt02256"><div>
                    On =E2=80=8EThursday=E2=80=8E, =E2=80=8EOctober=E2=80=
=8E =E2=80=8E18=E2=80=8E, =E2=80=8E2018=E2=80=8E =E2=80=8E01=E2=80=8E:=E2=
=80=8E13=E2=80=8E:=E2=80=8E48=E2=80=8E =E2=80=8EPM=E2=80=8E =E2=80=8ECDT, v=
an.mulders.marcel--- via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
                <div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
                <div><div id=3D"yiv2262750899ydpe7e79603yiv4783538815"><div=
><div style=3D"font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:=
10pt;color:#000000;"><div>-"...hitting a wall at that point..." : is it pos=
sible this is rather pointing to the camshaft than to the SU's? If it are t=
he carburettors, maybe the power would decrease more gradually above 6500 r=
pm.</div><div>-In general one choke per cylinder is better, and 2 Webers 40=
 DCOE isn't overkill I think</div><div>- what about trying HS6 SU's on your=
 actual manifold?</div><div>At what maximum rpm is your engine still reliab=
le?</div><div>Marcel</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><hr id=3D"yiv226275=
0899ydpe7e79603yiv4783538815zwchr"><div class=3D"yiv2262750899ydpe7e79603yi=
v4783538815yqt3904850125" id=3D"yiv2262750899ydpe7e79603yiv4783538815yqt498=
46"><div><b>Van: </b>"fot" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br clear=3D"none"><b>=
Aan: </b>"fot" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br clear=3D"none"><b>Verzonden: <=
/b>Woensdag 17 oktober 2018 15:49:45<br clear=3D"none"><b>Onderwerp: </b>[F=
ot] Weber vs Mikuni<br clear=3D"none"></div><br clear=3D"none"><div><div di=
r=3D"ltr"><div>I'm looking into switching out my twin HS4s on the 1296 race=
 engine to either Weber or Mukinis. I know this has been done for years and=
 I'd like to get close the best set up out of the gate. <br clear=3D"none">=
</div><br clear=3D"none"><div>I don't think the SUs are up to the task of m=
oving enough air with the new ported head and Stahl header. I've worked on =
the SUs and gotten them to finally deliver a good AFR , 12.6, at 6500 RPM u=
nder load but I seem to hit a wall (figuratively) at that point. I suspect =
that the openings just aren't big enough to deliver the mass of air require=
d. (spreadsheet or other flow calculator link appreciated)<br clear=3D"none=
"></div><div>Biggest gate I suspect is the intake valve, 1 3/8" head (~35mm=
) HS4 is ~38mm at best.<br clear=3D"none"></div><br clear=3D"none"><div>Rec=
ommendations? I've seen all these setups at the track, each with pluses, mi=
nuses and overkill cause it looks cool. <br clear=3D"none"></div><br clear=
=3D"none"><div>One weber DCOE 40 or 2? what jets, tubes etc for a starting =
point? Best manifold? <br clear=3D"none"></div><br clear=3D"none"><div>2 or=
 4 Mikuni 40? jet size?</div><br clear=3D"none"><div>thanks</div><div>mike<=
br clear=3D"none"></div></div>
<br clear=3D"none">_______________________________________________<br clear=
=3D"none">[email-masked]<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">http://ww=
w.fot-racing.com<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Donate: http://www.te=
am.net/donate.html<br clear=3D"none">Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail=
/fot<br clear=3D"none">Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/op=
tions/fot/[email-masked]<br clear=3D"none"></div></div></div=
></div></div><div class=3D"yiv2262750899ydpe7e79603yqt3904850125" id=3D"yiv=
2262750899ydpe7e79603yqt23489">____________________________________________=
___<br clear=3D"none"><a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">fo=
[email-masked]</a><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><a rel=3D"nofollo=
w" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com/">htt=
p://www.fot-racing.com</a><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Donate: <a =
rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.team.n=
et/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br clear=3D"none">Archi=
ve: <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www=
.team.net/pipermail/fot">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a><br clear=3D"=
none">Unsubscribe/Manage: <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_bla=
nk" href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]">htt=
p://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a><br clear=3D"non=
e"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div></div></div>
            </div>
        </div></div></div><div class=3D"yqt7631504929" id=3D"yqt39579">____=
___________________________________________<br clear=3D"none"><a shape=3D"r=
ect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
t">[email-masked]</a><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><a shape=3D"=
rect" href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-=
racing.com</a><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Donate: <a shape=3D"rec=
t" href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.te=
am.net/donate.html</a><br clear=3D"none">Archive: <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D=
"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/p=
ipermail/fot</a><br clear=3D"none">Unsubscribe/Manage: <a shape=3D"rect" hr=
ef=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]" target=
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a><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div><br><br></=
div>  </div> </div>  </div></div></body></html>
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--===============5336996630176135841==--

---

From: ralph hansen via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 13:32:48 +0000 (UTC)

--===============1756767404217314533==
	boundary="----=_Part_12699032_1808303208.1539955968794"

------=_Part_12699032_1808303208.1539955968794
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 gee, I missed the best part in my post, they were modded HS2's, yes the sm=
all carbs

    On =E2=80=8EFriday=E2=80=8E, =E2=80=8EOctober=E2=80=8E =E2=80=8E19=E2=
=80=8E, =E2=80=8E2018=E2=80=8E =E2=80=8E07=E2=80=8E:=E2=80=8E17=E2=80=8E:=
=E2=80=8E27=E2=80=8E =E2=80=8EAM=E2=80=8E =E2=80=8ECDT, Rick Parent <rick.p=
[email-masked]> wrote: =20
=20
 What Ralph said............
I have some experience with carbs on Spifires so I will share about 2 cents=
 (meaning minimal, I could probably write a book) worth if you don't mind.=
=C2=A0Dual Webers look really cool but will move you up a class or in SVRA =
to the next group, my Dyno says don't do it, it's not worth it. Makuni's? f=
orget it, price and parts are a problem, everyone at the track has Weber pa=
rts on their trailer. 1 1/2 SU's will do 9000rpm on a 1296 I know for sure =
but they are a pain to straighten out the fuel curve throughout the RPM ran=
ge, don't try this one at home boys and girls, you will end up throwing the=
m through the window. The easiest thing to do is purchase a single Weber ma=
nifold and 45 DCOE, a 40 would work as well and maybe better depending on y=
our state of tune. I have a box full of manifolds, 2 are actually within 2h=
p of the dual Webers on the top with way more bottom and mid range one I fa=
bricated and the other was purchased but only runs to 7000rpm. I would be g=
lad to help with jetting when the time comes.
All the best!=20

    =20
------=_Part_12699032_1808303208.1539955968794
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"ydp31a22074yahoo-style-wrap" style=
=3D"font-family: Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px=
;"></div><div class=3D"ydp31a22074yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family: H=
elvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">
        </div><div class=3D"ydp31a22074yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-fami=
ly: Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">gee, I mis=
sed the best part in my post, they were modded HS2's, yes the small carbs</=
div><div class=3D"ydp31a22074yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family: Helvet=
ica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"><br></div><div class=
=3D"ydp31a22074yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica Neue,Helve=
tica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"><br></div><div class=3D"ydp31a2207=
4yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,san=
s-serif; font-size: 13px;">
       =20
        </div><div class=3D"ydp3d2ead4cyahoo_quoted" id=3D"ydp3d2ead4cyahoo=
_quoted_0220153929">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
                <div>
                    On =E2=80=8EFriday=E2=80=8E, =E2=80=8EOctober=E2=80=8E =
=E2=80=8E19=E2=80=8E, =E2=80=8E2018=E2=80=8E =E2=80=8E07=E2=80=8E:=E2=80=8E=
17=E2=80=8E:=E2=80=8E27=E2=80=8E =E2=80=8EAM=E2=80=8E =E2=80=8ECDT, Rick Pa=
rent &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><div id=3D"ydp3d2ead4cyiv3809709404"><div><div style=
=3D"color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica,=
 Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div id=3D"ydp3d2ead4cyi=
v3809709404yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1539949984130_7456"><span id=3D"ydp3d2ead4cyiv=
3809709404yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1539949984130_9159">What Ralph said............=
</span></div><div id=3D"ydp3d2ead4cyiv3809709404yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_153994998=
4130_7456"><span><br clear=3D"none"></span></div><div id=3D"ydp3d2ead4cyiv3=
809709404yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1539949984130_7456" dir=3D"ltr"><span id=3D"ydp3=
d2ead4cyiv3809709404yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1539949984130_10854">I have some expe=
rience with carbs on Spifires so I will share about 2 cents (meaning minima=
l, I could probably write a book) worth if you don't mind.&nbsp;</span>Dual=
 Webers look really cool but will move you up a class or in SVRA to the nex=
t group, my Dyno says don't do it, it's not worth it. Makuni's? forget it, =
price and parts are a problem, everyone at the track has Weber parts on the=
ir trailer. 1 1/2 SU's will do 9000rpm on a 1296 I know for sure but they a=
re a pain to straighten out the fuel curve throughout the RPM range, don't =
try this one at home boys and girls, you will end up throwing them through =
the window. The easiest thing to do is purchase a single Weber manifold and=
 45 DCOE, a 40 would work as well and maybe better depending on your state =
of tune. I have a box full of manifolds, 2 are actually within 2hp of the d=
ual Webers on the top with way more bottom and mid range one I fabricated a=
nd the other was purchased but only runs to 7000rpm. I would be glad to hel=
p with jetting when the time comes.</div><div id=3D"ydp3d2ead4cyiv380970940=
4yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1539949984130_7456" dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div=
><div id=3D"ydp3d2ead4cyiv3809709404yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1539949984130_7456" d=
ir=3D"ltr">All the best!</div> <div class=3D"ydp3d2ead4cyiv3809709404qtdSep=
arateBR"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div class=3D"ydp3d2ea=
d4cyiv3809709404yahoo_quoted" style=3D"display:block;"> <div style=3D"font-=
family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-siz=
e:16px;"> <div style=3D"font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetic=
a, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"> <div class=3D"ydp3d2e=
ad4cyiv3809709404yqt8722674958" id=3D"ydp3d2ead4cyiv3809709404yqt24051"><di=
v dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"> On Friday, October 19, 2018 =
4:53 AM, ralph hansen via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D=
"none"></font></div>  <br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"> <div class=3D"=
ydp3d2ead4cyiv3809709404y_msg_container"><div id=3D"ydp3d2ead4cyiv380970940=
4"><div><div class=3D"ydp3d2ead4cyiv3809709404ydp154784e8yahoo-style-wrap" =
style=3D"font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size=
:13px;"><div></div>
        <div>gee, my 1147 with HS's puled all the way to 8k with a 4:11 gea=
r - stock bore block, head work, A6 cam - its not the carbs, its either tim=
ing or cam</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
       =20
        </div><div class=3D"ydp3d2ead4cyiv3809709404ydpe7e79603yahoo_quoted=
" id=3D"ydp3d2ead4cyiv3809709404ydpe7e79603yahoo_quoted_0115294811">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
                <div class=3D"ydp3d2ead4cyiv3809709404yqt7631504929" id=3D"=
ydp3d2ead4cyiv3809709404yqt02256"><div>
                    On =E2=80=8EThursday=E2=80=8E, =E2=80=8EOctober=E2=80=
=8E =E2=80=8E18=E2=80=8E, =E2=80=8E2018=E2=80=8E =E2=80=8E01=E2=80=8E:=E2=
=80=8E13=E2=80=8E:=E2=80=8E48=E2=80=8E =E2=80=8EPM=E2=80=8E =E2=80=8ECDT, v=
an.mulders.marcel--- via Fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
                <div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
                <div><div id=3D"ydp3d2ead4cyiv3809709404ydpe7e79603yiv47835=
38815"><div><div style=3D"font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif=
;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;"><div>-"...hitting a wall at that point..." =
: is it possible this is rather pointing to the camshaft than to the SU's? =
If it are the carburettors, maybe the power would decrease more gradually a=
bove 6500 rpm.</div><div>-In general one choke per cylinder is better, and =
2 Webers 40 DCOE isn't overkill I think</div><div>- what about trying HS6 S=
U's on your actual manifold?</div><div>At what maximum rpm is your engine s=
till reliable?</div><div>Marcel</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><hr id=
=3D"ydp3d2ead4cyiv3809709404ydpe7e79603yiv4783538815zwchr"><div class=3D"yd=
p3d2ead4cyiv3809709404ydpe7e79603yiv4783538815yqt3904850125" id=3D"ydp3d2ea=
d4cyiv3809709404ydpe7e79603yiv4783538815yqt49846"><div><b>Van: </b>"fot" &l=
t;[email-masked]&gt;<br clear=3D"none"><b>Aan: </b>"fot" &lt;fot@autox.=
team.net&gt;<br clear=3D"none"><b>Verzonden: </b>Woensdag 17 oktober 2018 1=
5:49:45<br clear=3D"none"><b>Onderwerp: </b>[Fot] Weber vs Mikuni<br clear=
=3D"none"></div><br clear=3D"none"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I'm looking i=
nto switching out my twin HS4s on the 1296 race engine to either Weber or M=
ukinis. I know this has been done for years and I'd like to get close the b=
est set up out of the gate. <br clear=3D"none"></div><br clear=3D"none"><di=
v>I don't think the SUs are up to the task of moving enough air with the ne=
w ported head and Stahl header. I've worked on the SUs and gotten them to f=
inally deliver a good AFR , 12.6, at 6500 RPM under load but I seem to hit =
a wall (figuratively) at that point. I suspect that the openings just aren'=
t big enough to deliver the mass of air required. (spreadsheet or other flo=
w calculator link appreciated)<br clear=3D"none"></div><div>Biggest gate I =
suspect is the intake valve, 1 3/8" head (~35mm) HS4 is ~38mm at best.<br c=
lear=3D"none"></div><br clear=3D"none"><div>Recommendations? I've seen all =
these setups at the track, each with pluses, minuses and overkill cause it =
looks cool. <br clear=3D"none"></div><br clear=3D"none"><div>One weber DCOE=
 40 or 2? what jets, tubes etc for a starting point? Best manifold? <br cle=
ar=3D"none"></div><br clear=3D"none"><div>2 or 4 Mikuni 40? jet size?</div>=
<br clear=3D"none"><div>thanks</div><div>mike<br clear=3D"none"></div></div=
></div></div><div class=3D"ydp3d2ead4cyiv3809709404ydpe7e79603yqt3904850125=
" id=3D"ydp3d2ead4cyiv3809709404ydpe7e79603yqt23489">______________________=
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