From timmmurphh at gmail.com Tue Aug 1 10:35:27 2017 From: timmmurphh at gmail.com (timmmurphh at gmail.com) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2017 11:35:27 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Figure 8 gasket thickness Thanks for the responses to my recent post regarding the thickness of the figure 8 gaskets. I've done a little more "digging" and these are my results. All of the steel ones I have of have gotten measure 0.015+. I recently ordered some non-copper ones from British Parts Northwest and they are aluminum and also measure 0.015+. These are the first aluminum ones I've seen. All the copper ones I have, including some used ones, measure 0.020+. I contacted Moss US and asked about their copper ones and any problems. They only had one report of water leaking, back in 2014. I was told that maybe the copper 0.020 ones were supposed to compress. I hammered some copper ones to 0.015 and they are twice as wide as the original and would not fit between the liner and the block bore. Additionally, I don't think there is enough force to compress them. The Moss ones are from Moss UK and are now specified at 0.018 by BPNW. The BPNW part number is the same as the Moss UK part number. I contacted Moss UK by email but never got a response. I also recently ordered a Payen lower engine gasket set and the figure 8 gaskets in it are steel and measure the 0.015+, as all of the other steel ones. The one engine builder that I know who uses the 0.020 copper gaskets typically uses them on blocks that are decked with the liner seats cut to allow the 0.003 to 0.005 stick out as specified by the Triumph TR4 Workshop Manual, Pg. 1.121. I am interested in anybody who is using the copper gaskets. Please post how you are getting the proper stick out. For myself, I will continue to use the steel figure 8 gaskets. I would also be interested in anyone using the aluminum figure 8's. Any problems? What did you get for stick out when assembled and the liners clamped in place? Personally, I don't think I want to experiment with these. Tim Murphy 1961 TR4 #317 (It really is a 1961 with an early Commission Number CT511) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Tue Aug 1 11:40:02 2017 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2017 13:40:02 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Figure 8 gasket thickness References: <000001d30ae4$35e508a0$a1af19e0$@gmail.com> I measured the copper ones out of a old AE/Hepolite 2.2 kit, they measure .017+, not quite .018, and appear to be fairly soft. Glen -----Original Message----- From: timmmurphh--- via Fot To: fot Sent: Tue, Aug 1, 2017 12:57 pm Subject: [Fot] Figure 8 gasket thickness Thanks for the responses to my recent post regarding the thickness of the figure 8 gaskets. I?ve done a little more ?digging? and these are my results. All of the steel ones I have of have gotten measure 0.015+. I recently ordered some non-copper ones from British Parts Northwest and they are aluminum and also measure 0.015+. These are the first aluminum ones I?ve seen. All the copper ones I have, including some used ones, measure 0.020+. I contacted Moss US and asked about their copper ones and any problems. They only had one report of water leaking, back in 2014. I was told that maybe the copper 0.020 ones were supposed to compress. I hammered some copper ones to 0.015 and they are twice as wide as the original and would not fit between the liner and the block bore. Additionally, I don?t think there is enough force to compress them. The Moss ones are from Moss UK and are now specified at 0.018 by BPNW. The BPNW part number is the same as the Moss UK part number. I contacted Moss UK by email but never got a response. I also recently ordered a Payen lower engine gasket set and the figure 8 gaskets in it are steel and measure the 0.015+, as all of the other steel ones. The one engine builder that I know who uses the 0.020 copper gaskets typically uses them on blocks that are decked with the liner seats cut to allow the 0.003 to 0.005 stick out as specified by the Triumph TR4 Workshop Manual, Pg. 1?121. I am interested in anybody who is using the copper gaskets. Please post how you are getting the proper stick out. For myself, I will continue to use the steel figure 8 gaskets. I would also be interested in anyone using the aluminum figure 8?s. Any problems? What did you get for stick out when assembled and the liners clamped in place? Personally, I don?t think I want to experiment with these. Tim Murphy 1961 TR4 #317 (It really is a 1961 with an early Commission Number CT511) _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 1 16:09:49 2017 From: jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com (Jack Wheeler) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2017 22:09:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fot] Figure 8 gasket thickness References: <000001d30ae4$35e508a0$a1af19e0$@gmail.com> Hi Tim.? I rebuilt the engine in my street TR-3 (10:1 compression, mild cam, etc.) a couple of years ago.? I used the steel figure 8 gaskets, and the liners were a new set of 87MM from Moss (so were the gaskets).? After break in, I noticed it still using a small amount of oil.? I couldn't see any leaks, and with new pistons/liners I can't imagine I was getting blow-by past the rings.? I ran a test on the coolant and found a small amount of combustion gas in the coolant.? At the time of assembly, I checked the amount that the liners were "standing proud" of the block, and it was marginally within spec, maybe a little below.? I would have liked to see it up around .004 - .005.? Instead, I was getting .002 - .003, which I concluded accounted for the missing oil (i.e. oil leaking past the head gasket and into the combustion chamber). So, I did an 'in chassis' rebuild and replaced the figure 8 gaskets with some old copper ones that I happened to have around.? I have a lot of figure 8 gaskets (left over from my racing days), and I checked all of them (steel and copper).? On average, I was finding the same thicknesses being reported in these messages, with the copper ones measuring about .002 thicker than the steel ones.? I put it back together with copper gaskets, and that solved the problem.? It passed the coolant test, and hasn't used a drop of oil since I changed to them 2 years ago. Hope this is helpful.? Good luck. Jack Wheeler On Tuesday, August 1, 2017, 12:57:37 PM EDT, timmmurphh--- via Fot wrote: Thanks for the responses to my recent post regarding the thickness of the figure 8 gaskets.? I?ve done a little more ?digging? and these are my results. All of the steel ones I have of have gotten measure 0.015+.? I recently ordered some non-copper ones from British Parts Northwest and they are aluminum and also measure 0.015+.? These are the first aluminum ones I?ve seen. All the copper ones I have, including some used ones, measure 0.020+. I contacted Moss US and asked about their copper ones and any problems.? They only had one report of water leaking, back in 2014.? I was told that maybe the copper 0.020 ones were supposed to compress.? I hammered some copper ones to 0.015 and they are twice as wide as the original and would not fit between the liner and the block bore.? Additionally, I don?t think there is enough force to compress them. The Moss ones are from Moss UK and are now specified at 0.018 by BPNW.? The BPNW part number is the same as the Moss UK part number.? I contacted Moss UK by email but never got a response. I also recently ordered a Payen lower engine gasket set and the figure 8 gaskets in it are steel and measure the 0.015+, as all of the other steel ones. The one engine builder that I know who uses the 0.020 copper gaskets typically uses them on blocks that are decked with the liner seats cut to allow the 0.003 to 0.005 stick out as specified by the Triumph TR4 Workshop Manual, Pg. 1?121. I am interested in anybody who is using the copper gaskets.? Please post how you are getting the proper stick out. For myself, I will continue to use the steel figure 8 gaskets.? I would also be interested in anyone using the aluminum figure 8?s.? Any problems?? What did you get for stick out when assembled and the liners clamped in place?? Personally, I don?t think I want to experiment with these. Tim Murphy 1961 TR4 #317 (It really is a 1961 with an early Commission Number CT511) ? _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gasket.works at gte.net Tue Aug 1 18:28:23 2017 From: gasket.works at gte.net (Mordy Dunst) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2017 20:28:23 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Figure 8 gasket thickness References: <1877797745.5042226.1501625389860@mail.yahoo.com> The entire fig of eight gasket concept is so wrong. Who would have designed such an arcane system. I measure each liner independently UNDER LOAD and they do compress - similar to rod bolt stretch. Any rate you measure the sleeve base to top and compare that to the measurement of the internal block sleeve perch to the deck. Add .005" to that block measurement subtract the sleeve measurement. That's the thickness for the base gasket for that sleeve. The sleeve next door might be different. It is not an issue for stock oem type compressible gaskets but critical for solid type metal gaskets. Sleeves compress .001" @ 100 ft lbs torque on them. If you email me separately I can share photo. MDunst Headgasket.com 626.358.1616 Fax 626.628.3777 Triple R Munitions, Inc 626.201.9471 T FFL 6,7 SOT 2 On Tuesday, August 1, 2017, Jack Wheeler via Fot wrote: Hi Tim. I rebuilt the engine in my street TR-3 (10:1 compression, mild cam, etc.) a couple of years ago. I used the steel figure 8 gaskets, and the liners were a new set of 87MM from Moss (so were the gaskets). After break in, I noticed it still using a small amount of oil. I couldn't see any leaks, and with new pistons/liners I can't imagine I was getting blow-by past the rings. I ran a test on the coolant and found a small amount of combustion gas in the coolant. At the time of assembly, I checked the amount that the liners were "standing proud" of the block, and it was marginally within spec, maybe a little below. I would have liked to see it up around .004 - .005. Instead, I was getting .002 - .003, which I concluded accounted for the missing oil (i.e. oil leaking past the head gasket and into the combustion chamber). So, I did an 'in chassis' rebuild and replaced the figure 8 gaskets with some old copper ones that I happened to have around. I have a lot of figure 8 gaskets (left over from my racing days), and I checked all of them (steel and copper). On average, I was finding the same thicknesses being reported in these messages, with the copper ones measuring about .002 thicker than the steel ones. I put it back together with copper gaskets, and that solved the problem. It passed the coolant test, and hasn't used a drop of oil since I changed to them 2 years ago. Hope this is helpful. Good luck. Jack Wheeler On Tuesday, August 1, 2017, 12:57:37 PM EDT, timmmurphh--- via Fot wrote: Thanks for the responses to my recent post regarding the thickness of the figure 8 gaskets. I?ve done a little more ?digging? and these are my results. All of the steel ones I have of have gotten measure 0.015+. I recently ordered some non-copper ones from British Parts Northwest and they are aluminum and also measure 0.015+. These are the first aluminum ones I?ve seen. All the copper ones I have, including some used ones, measure 0.020+. I contacted Moss US and asked about their copper ones and any problems. They only had one report of water leaking, back in 2014. I was told that maybe the copper 0.020 ones were supposed to compress. I hammered some copper ones to 0.015 and they are twice as wide as the original and would not fit between the liner and the block bore. Additionally, I don?t think there is enough force to compress them. The Moss ones are from Moss UK and are now specified at 0.018 by BPNW. The BPNW part number is the same as the Moss UK part number. I contacted Moss UK by email but never got a response. I also recently ordered a Payen lower engine gasket set and the figure 8 gaskets in it are steel and measure the 0.015+, as all of the other steel ones. The one engine builder that I know who uses the 0.020 copper gaskets typically uses them on blocks that are decked with the liner seats cut to allow the 0.003 to 0.005 stick out as specified by the Triumph TR4 Workshop Manual, Pg. 1?121. I am interested in anybody who is using the copper gaskets. Please post how you are getting the proper stick out. For myself, I will continue to use the steel figure 8 gaskets. I would also be interested in anyone using the aluminum figure 8?s. Any problems? What did you get for stick out when assembled and the liners clamped in place? Personally, I don?t think I want to experiment with these. Tim Murphy 1961 TR4 #317 (It really is a 1961 with an early Commission Number CT511) _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From alfetta95 at optonline.net Wed Aug 2 08:11:33 2017 From: alfetta95 at optonline.net (Todd Redmond) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2017 10:11:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Rear Deck hinges Friends, Looking for a usable set of rear deck hinges and spare tire lid escutcheons for a 1958 TR3a. ?Finish isn't an issue, just not broken or chipped. If you have a set you'd like to part with, please let me know. Thanks Todd From fubog1 at aol.com Wed Aug 2 13:03:34 2017 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2017 15:03:34 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Figure 8 gasket thickness ... and if the block is decked and not perfect, end-to-end & side-to-side, things will get even more complicated. I shoot for .005 on composition and .002 - .0025 on steel gaskets. Glen -----Original Message----- From: Mordy Dunst via Fot Cc: fot Sent: Tue, Aug 1, 2017 8:53 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Figure 8 gasket thickness The entire fig of eight gasket concept is so wrong. Who would have designed such an arcane system. I measure each liner independently UNDER LOAD and they do compress - similar to rod bolt stretch. Any rate you measure the sleeve base to top and compare that to the measurement of the internal block sleeve perch to the deck. Add .005" to that block measurement subtract the sleeve measurement. That's the thickness for the base gasket for that sleeve. The sleeve next door might be different. It is not an issue for stock oem type compressible gaskets but critical for solid type metal gaskets. Sleeves compress .001" @ 100 ft lbs torque on them. If you email me separately I can share photo. MDunst Headgasket.com 626.358.1616 Fax 626.628.3777 Triple R Munitions, Inc 626.201.9471 T FFL 6,7 SOT 2On Tuesday, August 1, 2017, Jack Wheeler via Fot wrote:Hi Tim. I rebuilt the engine in my street TR-3 (10:1 compression, mild cam, etc.) a couple of years ago. I used the steel figure 8 gaskets, and the liners were a new set of 87MM from Moss (so were the gaskets). After break in, I noticed it still using a small amount of oil. I couldn't see any leaks, and with new pistons/liners I can't imagine I was getting blow-by past the rings. I ran a test on the coolant and found a small amount of combustion gas in the coolant. At the time of assembly, I checked the amount that the liners were "standing proud" of the block, and it was marginally within spec, maybe a little below. I would have liked to see it up around .004 - .005. Instead, I was getting .002 - .003, which I concluded accounted for the missing oil (i.e. oil leaking past the head gasket and into the combustion chamber).So, I did an 'in chassis' rebuild and replaced the figure 8 gaskets with some old copper ones that I happened to have around. I have a lot of figure 8 gaskets (left over from my racing days), and I checked all of them (steel and copper). On average, I was finding the same thicknesses being reported in these messages, with the copper ones measuring about .002 thicker than the steel ones. I put it back together with copper gaskets, and that solved the problem. It passed the coolant test, and hasn't used a drop of oil since I changed to them 2 years ago.Hope this is helpful. Good luck.Jack WheelerOn Tuesday, August 1, 2017, 12:57:37 PM EDT, timmmurphh--- via Fot wrote:Thanks for the responses to my recent post regarding the thickness of the figure 8 gaskets. I?ve done a little more ?digging? and these are my results.All of the steel ones I have of have gotten measure 0.015+. I recently ordered some non-copper ones from British Parts Northwest and they are aluminum and also measure 0.015+. These are the first aluminum ones I?ve seen.All the copper ones I have, including some used ones, measure 0.020+.I contacted Moss US and asked about their copper ones and any problems. They only had one report of water leaking, back in 2014. I was told that maybe the copper 0.020 ones were supposed to compress. I hammered some copper ones to 0.015 and they are twice as wide as the original and would not fit between the liner and the block bore. Additionally, I don?t think there is enough force to compress them.The Moss ones are from Moss UK and are now specified at 0.018 by BPNW. The BPNW part number is the same as the Moss UK part number. I contacted Moss UK by email but never got a response.I also recently ordered a Payen lower engine gasket set and the figure 8 gaskets in it are steel and measure the 0.015+, as all of the other steel ones.The one engine builder that I know who uses the 0.020 copper gaskets typically uses them on blocks that are decked with the liner seats cut to allow the 0.003 to 0.005 stick out as specified by the Triumph TR4 Workshop Manual, Pg. 1?121.I am interested in anybody who is using the copper gaskets. Please post how you are getting the proper stick out.For myself, I will continue to use the steel figure 8 gaskets. I would also be interested in anyone using the aluminum figure 8?s. Any problems? What did you get for stick out when assembled and the liners clamped in place? Personally, I don?t think I want to experiment with these.Tim Murphy1961 TR4 #317 (It really is a 1961 with an early Commission Number CT511) _______________________________________________fot at autox.team.nethttp://www.fot-racing.comDonate: http://www.team.net/donate.htmlArchive: http://www.team.net/archiveForums: http://www.team.net/forumsUnsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com_______________________________________________fot@autox.team.nethttp://www.fot-racing.comDonate: http://www.team.net/donate.htmlArchive: http://www.team.net/archiveForums: http://www.team.net/forumsUnsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gasket.works at gte.net_______________________________________________fot@autox.team.nethttp://www.fot-racing.comDonate: http://www.team.net/donate.htmlArchive: http://www.team.net/archiveForums: http://www.team.net/forumsUnsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/fubog1 at aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark at bradakis.com Wed Aug 2 22:04:17 2017 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2017 22:04:17 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Team.Net Expect some unannounced, random outages of Team Net services over the next few days as I work on upgrading the operating system and various things. Like trying to get the archives automatically updating on a regular basis again. I apologize for any inconvenience. mjb. From jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 3 07:09:45 2017 From: jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com (Jack Wheeler) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2017 13:09:45 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fot] SY Carburetor Needles? References: <3141190c.becaa.15da3498f31.Webtop.42@optonline.net> Does anyone out there have a pair of SY carburetor needles for SU HS-6 carburetors, that they would like to sell?? Or would you know where I might find with a pair? I put a pair of HS-6's on my MGB and am using a set of RF needles that I had left over from my Triumph racing days.? Under full acceleration, the engine runs fine, but sometimes when the engine lugs down, it stumbles.? The MGB competition manual recommends SY needles, and I'm hoping they might clean up this problem, if I can find a pair of SY's. Thanks, Jack Wheeler -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at tonydrews.com Sun Aug 6 20:00:02 2017 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2017 21:00:02 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR-3/4/6 front hub dust cap question I've had a few folks have trouble fitting their dust caps over the beefier parts in my uprated front axle kit. I'm guessing that there are multiple designs for the dust cap, some roomier than others. Anyone know who has a "more roomy" dust cap for the stock TR-3/4/6 front hub? Thanks, Tony Drews From macdonaldp at rogers.com Mon Aug 7 09:46:12 2017 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2017 11:46:12 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Group 44 type TR8 race car ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/Triumph-TR8-IMSA-GT1-tribute-/282601010562?hash=item 41cc553582%3Ag%3AZeAAAOSw0GZZh2ns &vxp=mtr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paulricco at att.net Mon Aug 7 13:21:44 2017 From: paulricco at att.net (Paul Ricco) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2017 14:21:44 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR-3/4/6 front hub dust cap question References: <20170807020016.12F7E108BA6@relay.mailchannels.net> Toney and FOT, Doorman part # 13973. Installed with with the gentle loving help of a rubber mallet. Just a couple taps works just fine. They stay in place even when under attack by the most aggressive rumble strips that we find at any track. Ford part, commonly available. Paul Ricco > On Aug 6, 2017, at 9:00 PM, Tony Drews via Fot wrote: > > I've had a few folks have trouble fitting their dust caps over the beefier parts in my uprated front axle kit. I'm guessing that there are multiple designs for the dust cap, some roomier than others. Anyone know who has a "more roomy" dust cap for the stock TR-3/4/6 front hub? > > Thanks, Tony Drews > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/paulricco at att.net > > From paulricco at att.net Mon Aug 7 13:56:00 2017 From: paulricco at att.net (Paul Ricco) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2017 14:56:00 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR-3/4/6 front hub dust cap question References: <20170807020016.12F7E108BA6@relay.mailchannels.net> <934D9723-9FAD-4470-B5D8-B07496287ADE@att.net> <20170807193155.A1F2B10929D@relay.mailchannels.net> Tony, That part number will work with the alloy hubs. Paul > On Aug 7, 2017, at 2:31 PM, Tony Drews wrote: > > Paul, this is for stock hub, not for alloy hub? > > Tony Drews > > At 02:21 PM 8/7/2017, you wrote: >> Toney and FOT, >> >> Doorman part # 13973. Installed with with the gentle loving help of a rubber mallet. Just a couple taps works just fine. They stay in place even when under attack by the most aggressive rumble strips that we find at any track. >> >> Ford part, commonly available. >> >> Paul Ricco >> >> >> > On Aug 6, 2017, at 9:00 PM, Tony Drews via Fot wrote: >> > >> > I've had a few folks have trouble fitting their dust caps over the beefier parts in my uprated front axle kit. I'm guessing that there are multiple designs for the dust cap, some roomier than others. Anyone know who has a "more roomy" dust cap for the stock TR-3/4/6 front hub? >> > >> > Thanks, Tony Drews >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > fot at autox.team.net >> > >> > http://www.fot-racing.com >> > >> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/paulricco at att.net >> > >> > > > From william.tobin31 at verizon.net Mon Aug 7 17:39:49 2017 From: william.tobin31 at verizon.net (Bill Tobin) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2017 19:39:49 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR-3/4/6 front hub dust cap question References: <20170807020016.12F7E108BA6@relay.mailchannels.net> <934D9723-9FAD-4470-B5D8-B07496287ADE@att.net> <20170807193155.A1F2B10929D@relay.mailchannels.net> I use a short piece of 2 inch black pipe to install my dust caps. Fits over the outside of the cap and drives on the flange. Works good. A bit of the ID of the pipe may need to be filed or ground away for proper fit. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Ricco via Fot" To: "Tony Drews" Cc: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Monday, August 07, 2017 3:56 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR-3/4/6 front hub dust cap question > Tony, > > That part number will work with the alloy hubs. Paul > > >> On Aug 7, 2017, at 2:31 PM, Tony Drews wrote: >> >> Paul, this is for stock hub, not for alloy hub? >> >> Tony Drews >> >> At 02:21 PM 8/7/2017, you wrote: >>> Toney and FOT, >>> >>> Doorman part # 13973. Installed with with the gentle loving help of a >>> rubber mallet. Just a couple taps works just fine. They stay in place >>> even when under attack by the most aggressive rumble strips that we find >>> at any track. >>> >>> Ford part, commonly available. >>> >>> Paul Ricco >>> >>> >>> > On Aug 6, 2017, at 9:00 PM, Tony Drews via Fot >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> > I've had a few folks have trouble fitting their dust caps over the >>> > beefier parts in my uprated front axle kit. I'm guessing that there >>> > are multiple designs for the dust cap, some roomier than others. >>> > Anyone know who has a "more roomy" dust cap for the stock TR-3/4/6 >>> > front hub? >>> > >>> > Thanks, Tony Drews >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > fot at autox.team.net >>> > >>> > http://www.fot-racing.com >>> > >>> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >>> > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >>> > Unsubscribe/Manage: >>> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/paulricco at att.net >>> > >>> > >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/william.tobin31 at verizon.net > > From awashatko at wi.rr.com Tue Aug 8 20:39:19 2017 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2017 21:39:19 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Rear diff FOT, Anyone have or know of a rear diff. for a TR6? Please contact me off line. Thanks, Allen Sent from my iPhone From rkramer56 at gmail.com Wed Aug 9 08:58:31 2017 From: rkramer56 at gmail.com (Bob Kramer) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 09:58:31 -0500 Subject: [Fot] saving a camshaft I moved, had to change email address and I am no longer getting emails from the list. So I am putting a question out there to see if it gets to the list. If it does can you reply to me directly since I will not see any answers otherwise. How do you get back on the list? I must have a bad email address for Mark. I have a barely broken in Larry Young cam and it looks like lifter #1 stopped spinning at some point, probably due to compromised oil. The engine has less than an hour run time due to a probable cracked head. I am going to get the camshaft polished and then review its surface afterwards. It just has some heat marking. The lifter looks a little worse. I should probably get a new lifter when I do this but I'm going to polish it and see as well. It doesn't appear to have wear just heat marking. Bob Kramer -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rkramer56 at gmail.com Thu Aug 10 20:19:17 2017 From: rkramer56 at gmail.com (rkramer56) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 21:19:17 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Derek Sims / Howard SmithTriumph TR-4 IMSA 1971 Has anyone ever heard of the Howard Smith TR4 that raced in Danville 300? It was the very first IMSA GT race held at VIR in April 1971? The car was numbered as 67 as is my TR4. The other driver was a Derek Sims and I have found a picture of him autocrossing his TR3. I dont think he is the owner because I found another race with a Howard Smith ?TR4. I am trying to fill in the gap from 1969 when a Robert Johnson ran it as the same #67, which it raced the ARRC in 1967, and when Ott Jenson took it to Pittsburg in 1974.? Bob Kramer -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tr3a58 at verizon.net Fri Aug 11 06:41:40 2017 From: tr3a58 at verizon.net (Dean Tetterton) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 08:41:40 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Derek Sims / Howard SmithTriumph TR-4 IMSA 1971 References: <598d1425.023fca0a.d3f99.7512@mx.google.com> Bob Have you been to the VIR History web site. Here is a link to the IMSA GT race. http://www.virhistory.com/vir/71-apr/1971imsa.htm Lot of info out there. Dean Dean Tetterton tr3a58 at verizon.net -----Original Message----- From: rkramer56 via Fot To: fot Sent: Fri, Aug 11, 2017 3:48 am Subject: [Fot] Derek Sims / Howard SmithTriumph TR-4 IMSA 1971 Has anyone ever heard of the Howard Smith TR4 that raced in Danville 300? It was the very first IMSA GT race held at VIR in April 1971? The car was numbered as 67 as is my TR4. The other driver was a Derek Sims and I have found a picture of him autocrossing his TR3. I dont think he is the owner because I found another race with a Howard Smith TR4. I am trying to fill in the gap from 1969 when a Robert Johnson ran it as the same #67, which it raced the ARRC in 1967, and when Ott Jenson took it to Pittsburg in 1974. Bob Kramer _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rkramer56 at gmail.com Fri Aug 11 09:16:40 2017 From: rkramer56 at gmail.com (Bob Kramer) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 10:16:40 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Derek Sims / Howard SmithTriumph TR-4 IMSA 1971 References: <598d1425.023fca0a.d3f99.7512@mx.google.com> <15dd15078ea-2b94-1110a@webprd-m73.mail.aol.com> Dean I?ve been there. It?s a great site. When I bought this car I had no idea that it had the history that it does but my son found a 1969 picture of the car at VIR on the site. No pictures of a TR4 on the Danville 300 section so I?m hoping someone may have heard of these guys. Bob From: Dean Tetterton [mailto:tr3a58 at verizon.net] Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 7:42 AM To: rkramer56 at gmail.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Derek Sims / Howard SmithTriumph TR-4 IMSA 1971 Bob Have you been to the VIR History web site. Here is a link to the IMSA GT race. http://www.virhistory.com/vir/71-apr/1971imsa.htm Lot of info out there. Dean Dean Tetterton tr3a58 at verizon.net -----Original Message----- From: rkramer56 via Fot To: fot Sent: Fri, Aug 11, 2017 3:48 am Subject: [Fot] Derek Sims / Howard SmithTriumph TR-4 IMSA 1971 Has anyone ever heard of the Howard Smith TR4 that raced in Danville 300? It was the very first IMSA GT race held at VIR in April 1971? The car was numbered as 67 as is my TR4. The other driver was a Derek Sims and I have found a picture of him autocrossing his TR3. I dont think he is the owner because I found another race with a Howard Smith TR4. I am trying to fill in the gap from 1969 when a Robert Johnson ran it as the same #67, which it raced the ARRC in 1967, and when Ott Jenson took it to Pittsburg in 1974. Bob Kramer _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robertlangtr6 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 11 09:30:44 2017 From: robertlangtr6 at yahoo.com (Robert Lang) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 15:30:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fot] Rear Wheel Studs for TR6 References: <947761624.1877730.1502465444955.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Hi, I have a set of Group 44 hubs apart for replacing the studs. The ones that were in there were apparently Moroso 46160, 7/16-20 x 3 with a .560 knurl. I'm? looking for 1/2-20 studs with a similar knurl and would appreciate any pointers. Moroso 46180 is 1/2-20, but the knurl is .615, so I'd have to machine the hub flange. I'm trying to avoid machining but I def. want 1/2 inch studs. TIA! Regards,Bob Lang339-927-4489 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jsukey at gmail.com Fri Aug 11 10:44:00 2017 From: jsukey at gmail.com (Jason Sukey) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 12:44:00 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Rear Wheel Studs for TR6 References: <947761624.1877730.1502465444955.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <947761624.1877730.1502465444955@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Bob, Would something like a Moroso 46220 work? Listed as a .563 knurl, 1/2-20 RH, and 3" long. I don't know that the extra .003" knurl diameter would hurt. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-46220/overview/ Jason On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 11:30 AM, Robert Lang via Fot wrote: > Hi, > > I have a set of Group 44 hubs apart for replacing the studs. The ones that > were in there were apparently Moroso 46160, 7/16-20 x 3 with a .560 knurl. > > I'm looking for 1/2-20 studs with a similar knurl and would appreciate > any pointers. > > Moroso 46180 is 1/2-20, but the knurl is .615, so I'd have to machine the > hub flange. I'm trying to avoid machining but I def. want 1/2 inch studs. > > TIA! > > Regards, > Bob Lang > 339-927-4489 <(339)%20927-4489> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/ > options/fot/jsukey at gmail.com > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From emanteno at comcast.net Sat Aug 12 14:59:00 2017 From: emanteno at comcast.net (Irv Korey) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2017 15:59:00 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Sam wins at Grattan Sam Halkias won the EP race at Grattan (Michigan) today. Well done, Sam. Irv Korey -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at tonydrews.com Sat Aug 12 17:20:38 2017 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2017 18:20:38 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Grattan VSCDA next weekend? Anyone else going to Grattan next weekend? Vroom, vroom, Tony Drews From dbm.spitfire at gmail.com Sun Aug 13 14:03:24 2017 From: dbm.spitfire at gmail.com (Doug Mitchell) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2017 16:03:24 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Sam wins at Grattan References: He won again today (Sunday). Well done. Doug Mitchell dbm.spitfire at gmail.com Sent from my mobile phone. On Aug 12, 2017 5:31 PM, "Irv Korey via Fot" wrote: > Sam Halkias won the EP race at Grattan (Michigan) today. Well done, Sam. > > Irv Korey > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/ > options/fot/dbm.spitfire at gmail.com > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jsukey at gmail.com Mon Aug 14 13:17:53 2017 From: jsukey at gmail.com (Jason Sukey) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 15:17:53 -0400 Subject: [Fot] looking for TR6/Stag J-type OD adapter 312305 If anyone has a used J-type OD adapter for TR6 (or stag) PN 312305 that they are interested in selling, please contact me off-list. Thanks, Jason Sukey jsukey at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fogbro1 at comcast.net Mon Aug 14 17:45:26 2017 From: fogbro1 at comcast.net (EDWARD WOODS) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 19:45:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] looking for TR6/Stag J-type OD adapter 312305 References: Overdrive Repair Services has them. > On August 14, 2017 at 3:17 PM Jason Sukey via Fot wrote: > > If anyone has a used J-type OD adapter for TR6 (or stag) PN 312305 that they are interested in selling, please contact me off-list. > > Thanks, > Jason Sukey > jsukey at gmail.com mailto:jsukey at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/fogbro1 at comcast.net > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From timmmurphh at gmail.com Wed Aug 16 10:27:04 2017 From: timmmurphh at gmail.com (timmmurphh at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2017 11:27:04 -0500 Subject: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? References: <20170812232039.5E3BF8A8FFC@relay.mailchannels.net> <016701d31521$a8c84e80$fa58eb80$@gmail.com> -----Original Message----- From: timmmurphh at gmail.com [mailto:timmmurphh at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 12:20 PM To: 'Tony Drews' Cc: ryan.murphy at fdlco.wi.gov; Steve Yott Subject: RE: [Fot] Grattan VSCDA next weekend? Sadly, we won't be able to make it. I just got the block back from the machine shop last Tuesday. Not enough time to get everything together and in the car and ready to go by Thursday. The good news is the liner stick out is the 0.004 the machine shop said they machined the liner seats and deck to. It's still a bitch to measure, as the liners "wobble" on the seats and when you're looking for 0.004 it's a problem. I finally have a decent dial indicator gage setup to at least give repeatable readings. The figure 8's used was a set of copper ones I had that measured 0.016. The machining was done on a single setup on a Rottler floor type vertical 4-inch spindle milling/boring machine. These are special purpose machine tools built specifically to machine engine parts, such as blocks and heads. After all the machining to get the stick out right I now have the pistons sticking up about 0.010 above the tops of the liners. No problem with the composite Payen head gasket. Thanks for all the responses to the Figure 8 gasket question. I did eventually hear back from Moss UK. They said their steel fig. 8's are 0.016 and their copper fig. 8's were 0.018. No explanation regarding the different thickness other that they have not had reported problems with the gaskets. I'm not sure where the 0.020 thick copper ones that I measured came from or for that matter, the 0.016 thick copper ones I'm using. Tim & Ryan Murphy 1961 ('61, it is Comm. No. 511 and was built in 1961 per British Heritage) TR4 #317 BRG -----Original Message----- From: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Tony Drews via Fot Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2017 6:21 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Grattan VSCDA next weekend? Anyone else going to Grattan next weekend? Vroom, vroom, Tony Drews _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/timmmurphh at gmail.com From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Wed Aug 16 12:10:46 2017 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (toodamnfunky at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2017 18:10:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? References: <20170812232039.5E3BF8A8FFC@relay.mailchannels.net> <016701d31521$a8c84e80$fa58eb80$@gmail.com> <000f01d316ac$84fb6410$8ef22c30$@gmail.com> I'm having a similar problem, never seen it before. I'm on a fresh built motor from the off season, top to bottom. I'm on my third top end tear down and can't find the compression leak. I've had all the liners out, Started out with .003 - .004 liner projection. Cold, pre-start compression was 210 +/- 3 lbs across all cylinders. After start and cam run in #'s 1 & 2 cylinders are 90lbs exactly. I've done this three times the first time with solid copper gasket, the second two times with Cometic composite gaskets. After the second time all liners were removed, and re-elevated to .004-.005 with thicker base gaskets. All the pistons out and re-ringed. It wasn't the rings, I was really hoping I got a couple compression rings in upside down but no. I use a torque plate every time a liner is removed to seat it squarely in the bore. Before that I used to use the head to seat them. Trying to cinch down a liner with a head stud was always futile because they will rock in their bores. The compression never returns to 210, after the first heat cycle on a new head gasket 1 & 2 drop to 90 and stay that way. A cracked head is highly unlikely as it seems # 1 & 2 are sharing the same compression leak since both are consistently 90 lbs. On a leakdown all I can hear is air in the crankcase. My best guess at the moment is it's getting past at the pushrod gallery. No compression getting into the cooling system or I/E ports.The gaskets do not show leaks like you would see after a common head gasket failure with either evidence of coolant passing through or hot gasses getting by. I have a total of about 65 minutes run time on the motor. All I can think of is some sort of block deformation going on. I bought a couple precision straight edges, the head is perfect, with the block in the car it's difficult to tell. I pretty much tabled my season before it ever started in May, ran out of time for it. I'm getting damn good at tearing the top end off of it though. jim g ----- Original Message ----- From: "timmmurphh--- via Fot" To: "fot" Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 10:27:04 AM Subject: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? -----Original Message----- From: timmmurphh at gmail.com [mailto:timmmurphh at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 12:20 PM To: 'Tony Drews' Cc: ryan.murphy at fdlco.wi.gov; Steve Yott Subject: RE: [Fot] Grattan VSCDA next weekend? Sadly, we won't be able to make it. I just got the block back from the machine shop last Tuesday. Not enough time to get everything together and in the car and ready to go by Thursday. The good news is the liner stick out is the 0.004 the machine shop said they machined the liner seats and deck to. It's still a bitch to measure, as the liners "wobble" on the seats and when you're looking for 0.004 it's a problem. I finally have a decent dial indicator gage setup to at least give repeatable readings. The figure 8's used was a set of copper ones I had that measured 0.016. The machining was done on a single setup on a Rottler floor type vertical 4-inch spindle milling/boring machine. These are special purpose machine tools built specifically to machine engine parts, such as blocks and heads. After all the machining to get the stick out right I now have the pistons sticking up about 0.010 above the tops of the liners. No problem with the composite Payen head gasket. Thanks for all the responses to the Figure 8 gasket question. I did eventually hear back from Moss UK. They said their steel fig. 8's are 0.016 and their copper fig. 8's were 0.018. No explanation regarding the different thickness other that they have not had reported problems with the gaskets. I'm not sure where the 0.020 thick copper ones that I measured came from or for that matter, the 0.016 thick copper ones I'm using. Tim & Ryan Murphy 1961 ('61, it is Comm. No. 511 and was built in 1961 per British Heritage) TR4 #317 BRG -----Original Message----- From: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Tony Drews via Fot Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2017 6:21 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Grattan VSCDA next weekend? Anyone else going to Grattan next weekend? Vroom, vroom, Tony Drews _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/timmmurphh at gmail.com _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kaskastner at gmail.com Wed Aug 16 14:20:08 2017 From: kaskastner at gmail.com (Kas Kastner) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2017 13:20:08 -0700 Subject: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? References: <20170812232039.5E3BF8A8FFC@relay.mailchannels.net> <016701d31521$a8c84e80$fa58eb80$@gmail.com> <000f01d316ac$84fb6410$8ef22c30$@gmail.com> <1944129628.1229150.1502907046633.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> Have you re-checked the old problem with the head thermo houisng portion bottoming out on the water pump casting. That is exactly the solution for the same problem I had a long time ago. *Never be beaten by equipment.* On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 11:10 AM, JIm Gray via Fot wrote: > I'm having a similar problem, never seen it before. I'm on a fresh built > motor from the off season, top to bottom. > I'm on my third top end tear down and can't find the compression leak. > I've had all the liners out, > Started out with .003 - .004 liner projection. Cold, pre-start compression > was 210 +/- 3 lbs across > all cylinders. After start and cam run in #'s 1 & 2 cylinders are 90lbs > exactly. I've done this three times > the first time with solid copper gasket, the second two times with Cometic > composite gaskets. > After the second time all liners were removed, and re-elevated to > .004-.005 with thicker base gaskets. > All the pistons out and re-ringed. It wasn't the rings, I was really > hoping I got a couple compression rings > in upside down but no. > I use a torque plate every time a liner is removed to seat it squarely in > the bore. Before that I used to > use the head to seat them. Trying to cinch down a liner with a head stud > was always futile because > they will rock in their bores. > The compression never returns to 210, after the first heat cycle on a new > head gasket 1 & 2 drop to 90 > and stay that way. A cracked head is highly unlikely as it seems # 1 & 2 > are sharing the same compression leak > since both are consistently 90 lbs. On a leakdown all I can hear is air in > the crankcase. My best guess at the moment is > it's getting past at the pushrod gallery. No compression getting into the > cooling system or I/E ports.The gaskets do not show > leaks like you would see after a common head gasket failure with either > evidence of coolant passing through or > hot gasses getting by. I have a total of about 65 minutes run time on the > motor. > All I can think of is some sort of block deformation going on. I bought a > couple precision straight edges, the head is > perfect, with the block in the car it's difficult to tell. > I pretty much tabled my season before it ever started in May, ran out of > time for it. I'm getting damn good at tearing the top > end off of it though. > jim g > > ------------------------------ > *From: *"timmmurphh--- via Fot" > *To: *"fot" > *Sent: *Wednesday, August 16, 2017 10:27:04 AM > *Subject: *[Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: timmmurphh at gmail.com [mailto:timmmurphh at gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 12:20 PM > To: 'Tony Drews' > Cc: ryan.murphy at fdlco.wi.gov; Steve Yott > Subject: RE: [Fot] Grattan VSCDA next weekend? > > Sadly, we won't be able to make it. > > I just got the block back from the machine shop last Tuesday. Not enough > time to get everything together and in the car and ready to go by Thursday. > The good news is the liner stick out is the 0.004 the machine shop said > they > machined the liner seats and deck to. It's still a bitch to measure, as > the > liners "wobble" on the seats and when you're looking for 0.004 it's a > problem. I finally have a decent dial indicator gage setup to at least > give > repeatable readings. The figure 8's used was a set of copper ones I had > that measured 0.016. The machining was done on a single setup on a Rottler > floor type vertical 4-inch spindle milling/boring machine. These are > special purpose machine tools built specifically to machine engine parts, > such as blocks and heads. After all the machining to get the stick out > right I now have the pistons sticking up about 0.010 above the tops of the > liners. No problem with the composite Payen head gasket. > > Thanks for all the responses to the Figure 8 gasket question. I did > eventually hear back from Moss UK. They said their steel fig. 8's are > 0.016 > and their copper fig. 8's were 0.018. No explanation regarding the > different thickness other that they have not had reported problems with the > gaskets. I'm not sure where the 0.020 thick copper ones that I measured > came from or for that matter, the 0.016 thick copper ones I'm using. > > Tim & Ryan Murphy > 1961 ('61, it is Comm. No. 511 and was built in 1961 per British Heritage) > TR4 #317 BRG > > -----Original Message----- > From: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Tony Drews via > Fot > Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2017 6:21 PM > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] Grattan VSCDA next weekend? > > Anyone else going to Grattan next weekend? > > Vroom, vroom, Tony Drews > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/timmmurphh at gmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/ > options/fot/toodamnfunky at comcast.net > > > > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/ > options/fot/kaskastner at gmail.com > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Wed Aug 16 16:27:20 2017 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2017 18:27:20 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? Check the gasket thickness, it depends on what piston/wall clearance, rods, and RPM you use. You generally need around .030 piston/head with stock rods, so add that to your pop-up of .010 for minimum gasket thickness. If you run good rods you can run a little less before the pistons smack the head. It's perfect when there isn't any carbon build up on the piston tops under the squish area. When it's not right, it goes BRRRRRRRRRRRRR... HTH Glen After all the machining to get the stick out right I now have the pistons sticking up about 0.010 above the tops of the liners. No problem with the composite Payen head gasket. -----Original Message----- From: timmmurphh--- via Fot To: fot Sent: Wed, Aug 16, 2017 5:48 pm Subject: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? -----Original Message----- From: timmmurphh at gmail.com [mailto:timmmurphh at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 12:20 PM To: 'Tony Drews' Cc: ryan.murphy at fdlco.wi.gov; Steve Yott Subject: RE: [Fot] Grattan VSCDA next weekend? Sadly, we won't be able to make it. I just got the block back from the machine shop last Tuesday. Not enough time to get everything together and in the car and ready to go by Thursday. The good news is the liner stick out is the 0.004 the machine shop said they machined the liner seats and deck to. It's still a bitch to measure, as the liners "wobble" on the seats and when you're looking for 0.004 it's a problem. I finally have a decent dial indicator gage setup to at least give repeatable readings. The figure 8's used was a set of copper ones I had that measured 0.016. The machining was done on a single setup on a Rottler floor type vertical 4-inch spindle milling/boring machine. These are special purpose machine tools built specifically to machine engine parts, such as blocks and heads. After all the machining to get the stick out right I now have the pistons sticking up about 0.010 above the tops of the liners. No problem with the composite Payen head gasket. Thanks for all the responses to the Figure 8 gasket question. I did eventually hear back from Moss UK. They said their steel fig. 8's are 0.016 and their copper fig. 8's were 0.018. No explanation regarding the different thickness other that they have not had reported problems with the gaskets. I'm not sure where the 0.020 thick copper ones that I measured came from or for that matter, the 0.016 thick copper ones I'm using. Tim & Ryan Murphy 1961 ('61, it is Comm. No. 511 and was built in 1961 per British Heritage) TR4 #317 BRG -----Original Message----- From: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Tony Drews via Fot Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2017 6:21 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Grattan VSCDA next weekend? Anyone else going to Grattan next weekend? Vroom, vroom, Tony Drews _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/timmmurphh at gmail.com _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johnstydo at gmail.com Wed Aug 16 18:12:44 2017 From: johnstydo at gmail.com (John Styduhar) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2017 20:12:44 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? References: <000f01d316ac$84fb6410$8ef22c30$@gmail.com> <15ded288044-3221-21fa1@webprd-a28.mail.aol.com> Assuming you have cut the head down a bit, do you think the top compression ring is opening into the intake valve/pocket relief at the top of the liner and blowing past the ring? If you are .010" out of the hole, there is not much left at the top ring landing. On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 6:27 PM, fubog1 via Fot wrote: > Check the gasket thickness, it depends on what piston/wall clearance, > rods, and RPM you use. > You generally need around .030 piston/head with stock rods, so add that to > your pop-up of .010 for minimum gasket thickness. > If you run good rods you can run a little less before the pistons smack > the head. > It's perfect when there isn't any carbon build up on the piston tops under > the squish area. > When it's not right, it goes BRRRRRRRRRRRRR... > HTH > Glen > > > After all the machining to get the stick out > right I now have the pistons sticking up about 0.010 above the tops of the > liners. No problem with the composite Payen head gasket. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: timmmurphh--- via Fot > To: fot > Sent: Wed, Aug 16, 2017 5:48 pm > Subject: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: timmmurphh at gmail.com [mailto:timmmurphh at gmail.com > ] > Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 12:20 PM > To: 'Tony Drews' > Cc: ryan.murphy at fdlco.wi.gov; Steve Yott > Subject: RE: [Fot] Grattan VSCDA next weekend? > > Sadly, we won't be able to make it. > > I just got the block back from the machine shop last Tuesday. Not enough > time to get everything together and in the car and ready to go by Thursday. > The good news is the liner stick out is the 0.004 the machine shop said > they > machined the liner seats and deck to. It's still a bitch to measure, as the > liners "wobble" on the seats and when you're looking for 0.004 it's a > problem. I finally have a decent dial indicator gage setup to at least give > repeatable readings. The figure 8's used was a set of copper ones I had > that measured 0.016. The machining was done on a single setup on a Rottler > floor type vertical 4-inch spindle milling/boring machine. These are > special purpose machine tools built specifically to machine engine parts, > such as blocks and heads. After all the machining to get the stick out > right I now have the pistons sticking up about 0.010 above the tops of the > liners. No problem with the composite Payen head gasket. > > Thanks for all the responses to the Figure 8 gasket question. I did > eventually hear back from Moss UK. They said their steel fig. 8's are 0.016 > and their copper fig. 8's were 0.018. No explanation regarding the > different thickness other that they have not had reported problems with the > gaskets. I'm not sure where the 0.020 thick copper ones that I measured > came from or for that matter, the 0.016 thick copper ones I'm using. > > Tim & Ryan Murphy > 1961 ('61, it is Comm. No. 511 and was built in 1961 per British Heritage) > TR4 #317 BRG > > -----Original Message----- > From: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net ] > On Behalf Of Tony Drews via > Fot > Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2017 6:21 PM > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] Grattan VSCDA next weekend? > > Anyone else going to Grattan next weekend? > > Vroom, vroom, Tony Drews > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/timmmurphh at gmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/ > options/fot/fubog1 at aol.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/ > options/fot/johnstydo at gmail.com > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Thu Aug 17 20:18:15 2017 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 19:18:15 -0700 Subject: [Fot] mysterious low compression readings after initial break-in References: <20170812232039.5E3BF8A8FFC@relay.mailchannels.net> <016701d31521$a8c84e80$fa58eb80$@gmail.com> <000f01d316ac$84fb6410$8ef22c30$@gmail.com> <1944129628.1229150.1502907046633.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> For the compression to drop from 210 psi to 90 psi, I would think that there is a pretty large leakage path. You said that you had checked the cylinder leakage. Did you check it both cold after initial assembly and then hot after the cam break-in? What were the numbers that you got. Again, I would expect the leakage when you have low compression to be extremely high in the cylinders with only 90 psi compression. What is the top compression ring end gap that you are using? What are the top rings made of? different materials require more or less end gap. If the ring gap is to low, the end of the top ring should show some signs of the ends touching one another. probably a polished surface compared to machine marks. I would not expect that amount of leakage that your engine is experiencing would be from a head gasket unless there were an open passage connecting cylinders 1 & 2 . We recently had an MG-A engine that a good machine shop had completed a valve grind on in the shop. It showed 70% leakage out of one cylinder and 130 psi compression compared to 165 in the good cylinders. It turned out that the intake valve seat in the bad cylinder was not ground on the center line of the valve guide. I am not sure exactly how that happened but after we took the head apart, reground all of the valve seats, narrowed them to the proper width, check them with prussian blue, lapped them into each valve with fine lapping compound, the compression came up to 165 in all of the cylinders. The bottom end had about 25,000 mile on it and the cylinder leakage now varies from 5% to 9% in all of the cylinders. Greg Solow -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robertlangtr6 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 20 14:48:38 2017 From: robertlangtr6 at yahoo.com (Robert Lang) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2017 20:48:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fot] TR6 Dry Sump References: <1650156625.1163814.1503262118711.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Hi, Reading the 72 GCR for Production cars and specifically for the TR6, section 2.2, D. 20 - "use of any oil pan (sump) and/or any oil pump pickup" Opinions wanted: would a dry sump system be legal? Please discuss. Regards,Bob Lang339-927-4489 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlizzard at msn.com Sun Aug 20 18:08:07 2017 From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 00:08:07 +0000 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Dry Sump References: <1650156625.1163814.1503262118711.ref@mail.yahoo.com>, <1650156625.1163814.1503262118711@mail.yahoo.com> If we are talking about SCCA, no. If the GCR doesn?t say you can, then you cannot. For vintage? Who knows anymore? Terry Stetler Sent from Mail for Windows 10 Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 6:00 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 Dry Sump Hi, Reading the 72 GCR for Production cars and specifically for the TR6, section 2.2, D. 20 - "use of any oil pan (sump) and/or any oil pump pickup" Opinions wanted: would a dry sump system be legal? Please discuss. Regards, Bob Lang 339-927-4489 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robertlangtr6 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 21 05:26:15 2017 From: robertlangtr6 at yahoo.com (Robert Lang) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 11:26:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fot] TR6 Dry Sump References: <1650156625.1163814.1503262118711.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1650156625.1163814.1503262118711@mail.yahoo.com> I was talking to a dude this weekend and he indicated that Prod cars in the 70's ran dry sumps. This led me to read the rule book and this quotes section. Interestingly, the Sedan rules (6.E.17) does specifically indicate dry sumps. I'm pretty sure that my friend is confusing the two, but wanted to get some feedback on the matter. Thanks! Bob Lang339-927-4489 On Sunday, August 20, 2017 8:08 PM, Terry Stetler wrote: #yiv8004433805 #yiv8004433805 -- _filtered #yiv8004433805 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 5 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv8004433805 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv8004433805 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv8004433805 #yiv8004433805 p.yiv8004433805MsoNormal, #yiv8004433805 li.yiv8004433805MsoNormal, #yiv8004433805 div.yiv8004433805MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;}#yiv8004433805 a:link, #yiv8004433805 span.yiv8004433805MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv8004433805 a:visited, #yiv8004433805 span.yiv8004433805MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:#954F72;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv8004433805 .yiv8004433805MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv8004433805 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv8004433805 div.yiv8004433805WordSection1 {}#yiv8004433805 If we are talking about SCCA, no.?? If the GCR doesn?t say you can, then you cannot. ? For vintage??? Who knows anymore? ? Terry Stetler ? Sent from Mail for Windows 10 ? From: Robert Lang via Fot Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 6:00 PM To: FOT List Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 Dry Sump ? Hi, ? Reading the 72 GCR for Production cars and specifically for the TR6, section 2.2, D. 20 - "use of any oil pan (sump) and/or any oil pump pickup" ? Opinions wanted: would a dry sump system be legal? ? Please discuss. ? Regards, Bob Lang 339-927-4489 ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Mon Aug 21 08:16:39 2017 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 10:16:39 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Dry Sump References: <1650156625.1163814.1503262118711.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1650156625.1163814.1503262118711@mail.yahoo.com> Not just no... hell no for a prod car, but like Terry said, who knows re vintage today... Glen -----Original Message----- From: Robert Lang via Fot To: FOT List Sent: Sun, Aug 20, 2017 6:14 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 Dry Sump Hi, Reading the 72 GCR for Production cars and specifically for the TR6, section 2.2, D. 20 - "use of any oil pan (sump) and/or any oil pump pickup" Opinions wanted: would a dry sump system be legal? Please discuss. Regards, Bob Lang 339-927-4489 _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billdentin at aol.com Mon Aug 21 13:00:20 2017 From: billdentin at aol.com (Bill Dentinger) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 15:00:20 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Dry Sump "Of course I had to switch to disc brakes in the rear!!! With my engine upgrades...it was a Safety Issue! Bill Dentinger -----Original Message----- From: fubog1 via Fot To: robertlangtr6 ; fot Sent: Mon, Aug 21, 2017 10:38 am Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 Dry Sump Not just no... hell no for a prod car, but like Terry said, who knows re vintage today... Glen -----Original Message----- From: Robert Lang via Fot To: FOT List Sent: Sun, Aug 20, 2017 6:14 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 Dry Sump Hi, Reading the 72 GCR for Production cars and specifically for the TR6, section 2.2, D. 20 - "use of any oil pan (sump) and/or any oil pump pickup" Opinions wanted: would a dry sump system be legal? Please discuss. Regards, Bob Lang 339-927-4489 _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhasty at mhc-law.com Mon Aug 21 15:10:34 2017 From: jhasty at mhc-law.com (John Hasty) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 21:10:34 +0000 Subject: [Fot] TR6 Dry Sump References: <15e05270e51-c08-c56@webjas-vae034.srv.aolmail.net>, <15e062ac7d1-c03-5dac@webjas-vad049.srv.aolmail.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmoore at mtmcpafirm.com Tue Aug 22 04:35:00 2017 From: mmoore at mtmcpafirm.com (Michael Moore) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 10:35:00 +0000 Subject: [Fot] TR4 for sale A TR4 came up for sale on RacecarLocators.com, asking $14000 for car and trailer. Is anybody familiar with this car? It is in Olympia, WA. http://classifieds.racerconnect.com/2636-1963-triumph-tr4-fire-sale-wenclosed-trailer/details.html Thanks, Mike 62 TR4, Race car 63 TR4, Street car Mike & Becky Moore 6050 Ruhl Road, Fairview, PA 16415 mmoore at mtmcpafirm.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From emanteno at comcast.net Tue Aug 22 05:27:56 2017 From: emanteno at comcast.net (Irv Korey) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 06:27:56 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR4 for sale References: On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 5:35 AM, Michael Moore via Fot wrote: > A TR4 came up for sale on RacecarLocators.com, asking $14000 for car and > trailer. > > > > Is anybody familiar with this car? It is in Olympia, WA. > > > > http://classifieds.racerconnect.com/2636-1963-triumph-tr4-fire-sale- > wenclosed-trailer/details.html > This is my former car. I sold it to a guy in Olympia, Washington in 2008. I haven't heard from the buyer since around 2010, when he wrecked the car and then repaired it. It is a former SCCA EP car from the Southeast Region. I bought it from a guy named David Chenowith in 1992, and its home track was Summit Point. The engine when it was mine had 87mm pistons and liners, nitrided stock crank, British Frame & Engine header, and a Comptune cam. The head was ported by Jack Drews, and had Carillo rods. When it was mine, it did 129 HP at the rear wheels when Jack and I went to the dyno in 2001 or 2002. The transmission has a close ratio gearset, no overdrive. It was rebuilt by Glen Efinger and when I owned the car, the shifting was stellar thanks to Glen. The rear end was a 3.70 with a limited slip. The previous owner told me that it had a Salsbury, I never confirmed that it was indeed a Salsbury but it worked well. The rear shocks are tube shocks, legal for vintage per the era GCR. The wheels were 15x6 Panasports. When I sold the car, I included a spare wheel and a freshly prepared nitried stock crank. I haven't seen the car since it was loaded onto a transport in 2008. A few years ago I met Jeff Quick at a Kastner Cup, and he told me that the NW guys had tried to mentor the new owner but he knew it all and they weren't surprised that he wrecked it in his second event, which was in 2010. I have no idea when it was last raced. When it was first listed for sale, the asking price was $22,000 with the trailer. If the car was repaired well after the crash, it is a bargain at $14,000 including the trailer. I made 3 trips to the West Coast hoping to see the car again, and the guy never showed up. I hope someone buys this car and gets it back on the track. It needs to be raced and I would love to see it again. Irv Korey -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robertlangtr6 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 22 05:53:58 2017 From: robertlangtr6 at yahoo.com (Robert Lang) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 11:53:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fot] TR6 Dry Sump References: <15e05270e51-c08-c56@webjas-vae034.srv.aolmail.net> <15e062ac7d1-c03-5dac@webjas-vad049.srv.aolmail.net> <0A261D73-DFBF-4663-AEE7-8C6447ABCE8E@mhc-law.com> Hi - I wasn't trying to go down the "rules stretch" path. I started the thread just looking for a clarification based on a recent conversation. My car has been built around Solo rules and is surprisingly 72 GCR compliant. But thanks for the feedback. Now I have to figure out the plumbing for a 3-quart accusump. Regards,Bob Lang339-927-4489 On Monday, August 21, 2017 5:11 PM, John Hasty wrote: Right, along with the suspension pickup points, rear shocks, dog box, track bars, 7" rims...all in the pursuit of safety!!!!!! Sent from my iPhone On Aug 21, 2017, at 4:21 PM, "Bill Dentinger via Fot" wrote: "Of course I had to switch to disc brakes in the rear!!!? With my engine upgrades...it was a Safety Issue! Bill Dentinger -----Original Message----- From: fubog1 via Fot To: robertlangtr6 ; fot Sent: Mon, Aug 21, 2017 10:38 am Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 Dry Sump Not just no... hell no for a prod car, but like Terry said, who knows re vintage today... Glen -----Original Message----- From: Robert Lang via Fot To: FOT List Sent: Sun, Aug 20, 2017 6:14 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 Dry Sump Hi, Reading the 72 GCR for Production cars and specifically for the TR6, section 2.2, D. 20 - "use of any oil pan (sump) and/or any oil pump pickup" Opinions wanted: would a dry sump system be legal? Please discuss. Regards,Bob Lang339-927-4489 _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic mail transmission has been sent by a law firm on a legal matter. It may contain information that is confidential, privileged, proprietary, or otherwise legally exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate this message, any part of it, or any attachments. If you have received this message in error, please delete this message and any attachments from your system without reading the content and notify the sender immediately of the inadvertent transmission. There is no intent on the part of the sender to waive any privilege, including the attorney-client privilege, that may attach to this communication. Thank you for your cooperation. 11 U.S.C. 528(a)(4) NOTICE. We are a debt relief agency. We help people file for bankruptcy relief under the federal Bankruptcy Code. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From emanteno at comcast.net Tue Aug 22 06:06:54 2017 From: emanteno at comcast.net (Irv Korey) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 07:06:54 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR4 for sale References: http://classifieds.racerconnect.com/2636-1963-triumph-tr4-fire-sale- > wenclosed-trailer/details.html > If anyone is interested in more information about my former TR4, I have found my original sell sheets that list everything that was done to the car. I forgot a lot of stuff, including the Southwick rear axle conversion, in my original reply to the FOT list. Please contact me for additional information. I have NFI with this, I just want to see my old car back on track where it belongs. Irv Korey -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmoore at mtmcpafirm.com Tue Aug 22 06:52:23 2017 From: mmoore at mtmcpafirm.com (Michael Moore) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 12:52:23 +0000 Subject: [Fot] TR4 for sale References: Thanks for info, I will forward it on to my friend who is looking at it. Thanks Mike Michael T. Moore, CPA 3255 West 26th Street Erie, PA 16506 Phone: 814-616-8652 ext 100 Fax: 888-865-5279 Email: mmoore at mtmcpafirm.com This electronic mail message contains confidential and legally privileged information intended only for the use of the recipient. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, the reader is hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of this message is strictly prohibited and is hereby instructed to notify the sender immediately by return email and destroy this copy of this message. From: Irv Korey [mailto:emanteno at comcast.net] Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 7:28 AM To: Michael Moore Cc: fot Subject: Re: [Fot] TR4 for sale A TR4 came up for sale on RacecarLocators.com, asking $14000 for car and trailer. Is anybody familiar with this car? It is in Olympia, WA. http://classifieds.racerconnect.com/2636-1963-triumph-tr4-fire-sale-wenclosed-trailer/details.html This is my former car. I sold it to a guy in Olympia, Washington in 2008. I haven't heard from the buyer since around 2010, when he wrecked the car and then repaired it. It is a former SCCA EP car from the Southeast Region. I bought it from a guy named David Chenowith in 1992, and its home track was Summit Point. The engine when it was mine had 87mm pistons and liners, nitrided stock crank, British Frame & Engine header, and a Comptune cam. The head was ported by Jack Drews, and had Carillo rods. When it was mine, it did 129 HP at the rear wheels when Jack and I went to the dyno in 2001 or 2002. The transmission has a close ratio gearset, no overdrive. It was rebuilt by Glen Efinger and when I owned the car, the shifting was stellar thanks to Glen. The rear end was a 3.70 with a limited slip. The previous owner told me that it had a Salsbury, I never confirmed that it was indeed a Salsbury but it worked well. The rear shocks are tube shocks, legal for vintage per the era GCR. The wheels were 15x6 Panasports. When I sold the car, I included a spare wheel and a freshly prepared nitried stock crank. I haven't seen the car since it was loaded onto a transport in 2008. A few years ago I met Jeff Quick at a Kastner Cup, and he told me that the NW guys had tried to mentor the new owner but he knew it all and they weren't surprised that he wrecked it in his second event, which was in 2010. I have no idea when it was last raced. When it was first listed for sale, the asking price was $22,000 with the trailer. If the car was repaired well after the crash, it is a bargain at $14,000 including the trailer. I made 3 trips to the West Coast hoping to see the car again, and the guy never showed up. I hope someone buys this car and gets it back on the track. It needs to be raced and I would love to see it again. Irv Korey -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sjanzen at me.com Tue Aug 22 10:19:55 2017 From: sjanzen at me.com (Scott Janzen) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 09:19:55 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR4 for sale References: could be an incredibly good deal, and by coincidence I?m in Seattle on vacation, 75 minutes away. Hmmm. On Aug 22, 2017, at 4:27 AM, Irv Korey via Fot wrote: A TR4 came up for sale on RacecarLocators.com, asking $14000 for car and trailer. Is anybody familiar with this car? It is in Olympia, WA. http://classifieds.racerconnect.com/2636-1963-triumph-tr4-fire-sale-wenclosed-trailer/details.html This is my former car. I sold it to a guy in Olympia, Washington in 2008. I haven't heard from the buyer since around 2010, when he wrecked the car and then repaired it. It is a former SCCA EP car from the Southeast Region. I bought it from a guy named David Chenowith in 1992, and its home track was Summit Point. The engine when it was mine had 87mm pistons and liners, nitrided stock crank, British Frame & Engine header, and a Comptune cam. The head was ported by Jack Drews, and had Carillo rods. When it was mine, it did 129 HP at the rear wheels when Jack and I went to the dyno in 2001 or 2002. The transmission has a close ratio gearset, no overdrive. It was rebuilt by Glen Efinger and when I owned the car, the shifting was stellar thanks to Glen. The rear end was a 3.70 with a limited slip. The previous owner told me that it had a Salsbury, I never confirmed that it was indeed a Salsbury but it worked well. The rear shocks are tube shocks, legal for vintage per the era GCR. The wheels were 15x6 Panasports. When I sold the car, I included a spare wheel and a freshly prepared nitried stock crank. I haven't seen the car since it was loaded onto a transport in 2008. A few years ago I met Jeff Quick at a Kastner Cup, and he told me that the NW guys had tried to mentor the new owner but he knew it all and they weren't surprised that he wrecked it in his second event, which was in 2010. I have no idea when it was last raced. When it was first listed for sale, the asking price was $22,000 with the trailer. If the car was repaired well after the crash, it is a bargain at $14,000 including the trailer. I made 3 trips to the West Coast hoping to see the car again, and the guy never showed up. I hope someone buys this car and gets it back on the track. It needs to be raced and I would love to see it again. Irv Korey _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From emanteno at comcast.net Tue Aug 22 11:08:47 2017 From: emanteno at comcast.net (Irv Korey) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 12:08:47 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR4 for sale References: <74E45360-40EA-469E-AD4F-6F21D6E5EE6B@me.com> On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 11:19 AM, Scott Janzen wrote: > could be an incredibly good deal, and by coincidence I?m in Seattle on > vacation, 75 minutes away. Hmmm. > If this car was repaired properly after the current owner wrecked it, it is a great buy. There is much more in that car than I listed earlier. I found my sell sheet, and it is available to anyone who would like to see it. Contact me off list. NFI! PLEASE, someone rescue my former car. I want to see it race again. Irv Korey -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dlhogye at comcast.net Tue Aug 22 16:02:57 2017 From: dlhogye at comcast.net (davehogye) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 22:02:57 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fot] TR4 for sale References: Our Friend, Jon Gannaway seriously considered the car recently. It comes with an enclosed trailer for that price. Kinda makes it an even sweeter deal. Dave H. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Moore via Fot" To: "fot" Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 3:35:00 AM Subject: [Fot] TR4 for sale A TR4 came up for sale on RacecarLocators.com, asking $14000 for car and trailer. Is anybody familiar with this car? It is in Olympia, WA. http://classifieds.racerconnect.com/2636-1963-triumph-tr4-fire-sale-wenclosed-trailer/details.html Thanks, Mike 62 TR4, Race car 63 TR4, Street car Mike & Becky Moore 6050 Ruhl Road, Fairview, PA 16415 mmoore at mtmcpafirm.com _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhasty at mhc-law.com Tue Aug 22 18:58:38 2017 From: jhasty at mhc-law.com (John Hasty) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 00:58:38 +0000 Subject: [Fot] TR4 for sale References: , <2113503412.66069657.1503439377496.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From walt at hot-tr6.com Tue Aug 22 21:37:41 2017 From: walt at hot-tr6.com (walt at hot-tr6.com) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 21:37:41 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR4 for sale References: <2113503412.66069657.1503439377496.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> I thought Jon would have buffed out that little ding from Lagun a by now. Walt Hollowell Abq., NM Hot TR6 From: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of davehogye via Fot Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 4:03 PM To: Moore, Mike Cc: Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] TR4 for sale Our Friend, Jon Gannaway seriously considered the car recently. It comes with an enclosed trailer for that price. Kinda makes it an even sweeter deal. Dave H. _____ From: "Michael Moore via Fot" To: "fot" Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 3:35:00 AM Subject: [Fot] TR4 for sale A TR4 came up for sale on RacecarLocators.com, asking $14000 for car and trailer. Is anybody familiar with this car? It is in Olympia, WA. http://classifieds.racerconnect.com/2636-1963-triumph-tr4-fire-sale-wenclosed-trailer/details.html Thanks, Mike 62 TR4, Race car 63 TR4, Street car Mike & Becky Moore 6050 Ruhl Road, Fairview, PA 16415 mmoore at mtmcpafirm.com _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robertlangtr6 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 23 10:02:06 2017 From: robertlangtr6 at yahoo.com (Robert Lang) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 16:02:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fot] Wierd Oil Pressure on Startup References: <16212417.539666.1503504126583.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Hi, I usually run a load of Rotella through an an engine that I've had apart, the T1 straight 30 wt stuff. Anyway, I started the motor last evening and the initial oil pressure was 60 or 70 PSI 2000 RPMs with cold oil (ambient was about 80 F). This is different from the 80 - 100 PSI I get with 20w50 cold. In any case, I'm dropping the pan to check the oil pump clearances, which I had done earlier, but I wanted to see if these numbers seem "normal" or not. Regards,Bob Lang339-927-4489 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Wed Aug 23 13:16:27 2017 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (toodamnfunky at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 19:16:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fot] Wierd Oil Pressure on Startup References: <16212417.539666.1503504126583.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <16212417.539666.1503504126583@mail.yahoo.com> It doesn't sound out of line with straight 30 wt and the bearing clearances we run. It wouldn't hurt to drop the center main cap and a rod cap ( 2 or 3) and have a look. jim g ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Lang via Fot" To: "fot" Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 10:02:06 AM Subject: [Fot] Wierd Oil Pressure on Startup Hi, I usually run a load of Rotella through an an engine that I've had apart, the T1 straight 30 wt stuff. Anyway, I started the motor last evening and the initial oil pressure was 60 or 70 PSI 2000 RPMs with cold oil (ambient was about 80 F). This is different from the 80 - 100 PSI I get with 20w50 cold. In any case, I'm dropping the pan to check the oil pump clearances, which I had done earlier, but I wanted to see if these numbers seem "normal" or not. Regards, Bob Lang 339-927-4489 _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From timmmurphh at gmail.com Wed Aug 23 13:33:56 2017 From: timmmurphh at gmail.com (timmmurphh at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 14:33:56 -0500 Subject: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? piston/head clearance The Payen head gasket last used was compressed to 0.055 at the fire ring. So, with the 0.010 pop-up that I have from the all efforts to deck the block, I will have 0.045 clearance. I have Carrillo rods and we try to stay to under 6000 RPM for engine ?longevity?. (Not sure ?longevity? is a term that can be used with a race engine!) At the most we?ll hit 6200 or 6300 RPM briefly before upshifting. Therefore, I should be within the 0.030 clearance that you recommended. It will be interesting to see what the top of the pistons looks like on the next rebuild with regard to carbon build up in the squish area. Thanks for the advice and all the other comments on this subject. All much appreciated. Still a lot to learn? Tim P.S. Finally got everything together on the engine and about ready to mate up to the transmission and put back in the car. Looking forward to ELVF next month. That will be the test. From: fubog1 [mailto:fubog1 at aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 5:27 PM To: timmmurphh at gmail.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? Check the gasket thickness, it depends on what piston/wall clearance, rods, and RPM you use. You generally need around .030 piston/head with stock rods, so add that to your pop-up of .010 for minimum gasket thickness. If you run good rods you can run a little less before the pistons smack the head. It's perfect when there isn't any carbon build up on the piston tops under the squish area. When it's not right, it goes BRRRRRRRRRRRRR... HTH Glen After all the machining to get the stick out right I now have the pistons sticking up about 0.010 above the tops of the liners. No problem with the composite Payen head gasket. -----Original Message----- Sent: Wed, Aug 16, 2017 5:48 pm Subject: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 12:20 PM Subject: RE: [Fot] Grattan VSCDA next weekend? Sadly, we won't be able to make it. I just got the block back from the machine shop last Tuesday. Not enough time to get everything together and in the car and ready to go by Thursday. The good news is the liner stick out is the 0.004 the machine shop said they machined the liner seats and deck to. It's still a bitch to measure, as the liners "wobble" on the seats and when you're looking for 0.004 it's a problem. I finally have a decent dial indicator gage setup to at least give repeatable readings. The figure 8's used was a set of copper ones I had that measured 0.016. The machining was done on a single setup on a Rottler floor type vertical 4-inch spindle milling/boring machine. These are special purpose machine tools built specifically to machine engine parts, such as blocks and heads. After all the machining to get the stick out right I now have the pistons sticking up about 0.010 above the tops of the liners. No problem with the composite Payen head gasket. Thanks for all the responses to the Figure 8 gasket question. I did eventually hear back from Moss UK. They said their steel fig. 8's are 0.016 and their copper fig. 8's were 0.018. No explanation regarding the different thickness other that they have not had reported problems with the gaskets. I'm not sure where the 0.020 thick copper ones that I measured came from or for that matter, the 0.016 thick copper ones I'm using. Tim & Ryan Murphy 1961 ('61, it is Comm. No. 511 and was built in 1961 per British Heritage) TR4 #317 BRG -----Original Message----- Fot Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2017 6:21 PM Subject: [Fot] Grattan VSCDA next weekend? Anyone else going to Grattan next weekend? Vroom, vroom, Tony Drews _______________________________________________ http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/timmmurphh at gmail.com _______________________________________________ http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Wed Aug 23 15:51:42 2017 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 17:51:42 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? piston/head clearance References: <000a01d31c46$cbfc62c0$63f52840$@gmail.com> With the good rods and reasonable rpm you have plenty of clearance. You don't want too much clearance either cuz then it lessens the "squish" effect. The idea is to have enough clearance for all running conditions, plus a few thou safety margin, and no more. Glen -----Original Message----- From: timmmurphh To: 'fubog1' ; fot Sent: Wed, Aug 23, 2017 3:38 pm Subject: RE: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? piston/head clearance The Payen head gasket last used was compressed to 0.055 at the fire ring. So, with the 0.010 pop-up that I have from the all efforts to deck the block, I will have 0.045 clearance. I have Carrillo rods and we try to stay to under 6000 RPM for engine ?longevity?. (Not sure ?longevity? is a term that can be used with a race engine!) At the most we?ll hit 6200 or 6300 RPM briefly before upshifting. Therefore, I should be within the 0.030 clearance that you recommended. It will be interesting to see what the top of the pistons looks like on the next rebuild with regard to carbon build up in the squish area. Thanks for the advice and all the other comments on this subject. All much appreciated. Still a lot to learn? Tim P.S. Finally got everything together on the engine and about ready to mate up to the transmission and put back in the car. Looking forward to ELVF next month. That will be the test. From: fubog1 [mailto:fubog1 at aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 5:27 PM To: timmmurphh at gmail.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? Check the gasket thickness, it depends on what piston/wall clearance, rods, and RPM you use. You generally need around .030 piston/head with stock rods, so add that to your pop-up of .010 for minimum gasket thickness. If you run good rods you can run a little less before the pistons smack the head. It's perfect when there isn't any carbon build up on the piston tops under the squish area. When it's not right, it goes BRRRRRRRRRRRRR... HTH Glen After all the machining to get the stick out right I now have the pistons sticking up about 0.010 above the tops of the liners. No problem with the composite Payen head gasket. -----Original Message----- From: timmmurphh--- via Fot To: fot Sent: Wed, Aug 16, 2017 5:48 pm Subject: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? -----Original Message----- From: timmmurphh at gmail.com [mailto:timmmurphh at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 12:20 PM To: 'Tony Drews' Cc: ryan.murphy at fdlco.wi.gov; Steve Yott Subject: RE: [Fot] Grattan VSCDA next weekend? Sadly, we won't be able to make it. I just got the block back from the machine shop last Tuesday. Not enough time to get everything together and in the car and ready to go by Thursday. The good news is the liner stick out is the 0.004 the machine shop said they machined the liner seats and deck to. It's still a bitch to measure, as the liners "wobble" on the seats and when you're looking for 0.004 it's a problem. I finally have a decent dial indicator gage setup to at least give repeatable readings. The figure 8's used was a set of copper ones I had that measured 0.016. The machining was done on a single setup on a Rottler floor type vertical 4-inch spindle milling/boring machine. These are special purpose machine tools built specifically to machine engine parts, such as blocks and heads. After all the machining to get the stick out right I now have the pistons sticking up about 0.010 above the tops of the liners. No problem with the composite Payen head gasket. Thanks for all the responses to the Figure 8 gasket question. I did eventually hear back from Moss UK. They said their steel fig. 8's are 0.016 and their copper fig. 8's were 0.018. No explanation regarding the different thickness other that they have not had reported problems with the gaskets. I'm not sure where the 0.020 thick copper ones that I measured came from or for that matter, the 0.016 thick copper ones I'm using. Tim & Ryan Murphy 1961 ('61, it is Comm. No. 511 and was built in 1961 per British Heritage) TR4 #317 BRG -----Original Message----- From: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Tony Drews via Fot Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2017 6:21 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Grattan VSCDA next weekend? Anyone else going to Grattan next weekend? Vroom, vroom, Tony Drews _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/timmmurphh at gmail.com _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tr4racing at googlemail.com Wed Aug 23 16:07:52 2017 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (tr4racing at googlemail.com) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 00:07:52 +0200 Subject: [Fot] piston/head clearance On dyno test we found a disturbing issue that lowers the power if the piston to head clearance is less than 0.039?. We didn?t find a cause for this but tested thoroughly clearances from 0.0236? upwards. Best power reading was with 0.0472?. Cheers Chris Von: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von fubog1 via Fot Gesendet: Mittwoch, 23. August 2017 23:52 An: timmmurphh at gmail.com; fot at autox.team.net Betreff: Re: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? piston/head clearance With the good rods and reasonable rpm you have plenty of clearance. You don't want too much clearance either cuz then it lessens the "squish" effect. The idea is to have enough clearance for all running conditions, plus a few thou safety margin, and no more. Glen -----Original Message----- Sent: Wed, Aug 23, 2017 3:38 pm Subject: RE: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? piston/head clearance The Payen head gasket last used was compressed to 0.055 at the fire ring. So, with the 0.010 pop-up that I have from the all efforts to deck the block, I will have 0.045 clearance. I have Carrillo rods and we try to stay to under 6000 RPM for engine ?longevity?. (Not sure ?longevity? is a term that can be used with a race engine!) At the most we?ll hit 6200 or 6300 RPM briefly before upshifting. Therefore, I should be within the 0.030 clearance that you recommended. It will be interesting to see what the top of the pistons looks like on the next rebuild with regard to carbon build up in the squish area. Thanks for the advice and all the other comments on this subject. All much appreciated. Still a lot to learn? Tim P.S. Finally got everything together on the engine and about ready to mate up to the transmission and put back in the car. Looking forward to ELVF next month. That will be the test. From: fubog1 [mailto:fubog1 at aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? Check the gasket thickness, it depends on what piston/wall clearance, rods, and RPM you use. You generally need around .030 piston/head with stock rods, so add that to your pop-up of .010 for minimum gasket thickness. If you run good rods you can run a little less before the pistons smack the head. It's perfect when there isn't any carbon build up on the piston tops under the squish area. When it's not right, it goes BRRRRRRRRRRRRR... HTH Glen After all the machining to get the stick out right I now have the pistons sticking up about 0.010 above the tops of the liners. No problem with the composite Payen head gasket. -----Original Message----- Sent: Wed, Aug 16, 2017 5:48 pm Subject: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 12:20 PM Subject: RE: [Fot] Grattan VSCDA next weekend? Sadly, we won't be able to make it. I just got the block back from the machine shop last Tuesday. Not enough time to get everything together and in the car and ready to go by Thursday. The good news is the liner stick out is the 0.004 the machine shop said they machined the liner seats and deck to. It's still a bitch to measure, as the liners "wobble" on the seats and when you're looking for 0.004 it's a problem. I finally have a decent dial indicator gage setup to at least give repeatable readings. The figure 8's used was a set of copper ones I had that measured 0.016. The machining was done on a single setup on a Rottler floor type vertical 4-inch spindle milling/boring machine. These are special purpose machine tools built specifically to machine engine parts, such as blocks and heads. After all the machining to get the stick out right I now have the pistons sticking up about 0.010 above the tops of the liners. No problem with the composite Payen head gasket. Thanks for all the responses to the Figure 8 gasket question. I did eventually hear back from Moss UK. They said their steel fig. 8's are 0.016 and their copper fig. 8's were 0.018. No explanation regarding the different thickness other that they have not had reported problems with the gaskets. I'm not sure where the 0.020 thick copper ones that I measured came from or for that matter, the 0.016 thick copper ones I'm using. Tim & Ryan Murphy 1961 ('61, it is Comm. No. 511 and was built in 1961 per British Heritage) TR4 #317 BRG -----Original Message----- From: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Tony Drews via Fot Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2017 6:21 PM Subject: [Fot] Grattan VSCDA next weekend? Anyone else going to Grattan next weekend? Vroom, vroom, Tony Drews _______________________________________________ http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/timmmurphh at gmail.com _______________________________________________ http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhasty at mhc-law.com Wed Aug 23 16:47:00 2017 From: jhasty at mhc-law.com (John Hasty) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 22:47:00 +0000 Subject: [Fot] piston/head clearance References: <001d01d31c5c$44ed2ec0$cec78c40$@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kaskastner at gmail.com Wed Aug 23 19:46:23 2017 From: kaskastner at gmail.com (Kas Kastner) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 18:46:23 -0700 Subject: [Fot] piston/head clearance References: <001d01d31c5c$44ed2ec0$cec78c40$@gmail.com> This is a very interesting subject. In the thousands of hours of dyno testing I did in the 60's, the squish area clearance was never addressed with exception of making certain the piston did not hit the head. Off hand, when the clearance is too close it rather sounds like there is insufficient volume in the squish at TDC to do its job of properly exciting the balance of fuel mixture when it squirts back into the combustion chamber thus making a better mixed and thus more powerful combustion moment. Or maybe something else :-) *Never be beaten by equipment.* On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 3:47 PM, John Hasty via Fot wrote: > Interesting... We found 1.5 mm in the 250 two strokes was the best.... > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 23, 2017, at 6:31 PM, "Chris Marx via Fot" > wrote: > > On dyno test we found a disturbing issue that lowers the power if the > piston to head clearance is less than 0.039?. > > We didn?t find a cause for this but tested thoroughly clearances from > 0.0236? upwards. > > Best power reading was with 0.0472?. > > > > Cheers > > Chris > > > > *Von:* Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net ] > *Im Auftrag von *fubog1 via Fot > *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 23. August 2017 23:52 > *An:* timmmurphh at gmail.com; fot at autox.team.net > *Betreff:* Re: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? piston/head clearance > > > > With the good rods and reasonable rpm you have plenty of clearance. > You don't want too much clearance either cuz then it lessens the "squish" > effect. > The idea is to have enough clearance for all running conditions, plus a > few thou safety margin, and no more. > Glen > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: timmmurphh > To: 'fubog1' ; fot > Sent: Wed, Aug 23, 2017 3:38 pm > Subject: RE: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? piston/head clearance > > The Payen head gasket last used was compressed to 0.055 at the fire ring. > So, with the 0.010 pop-up that I have from the all efforts to deck the > block, I will have 0.045 clearance. I have Carrillo rods and we try to > stay to under 6000 RPM for engine ?longevity?. (Not sure ?longevity? is a > term that can be used with a race engine!) At the most we?ll hit 6200 or > 6300 RPM briefly before upshifting. Therefore, I should be within the > 0.030 clearance that you recommended. It will be interesting to see what > the top of the pistons looks like on the next rebuild with regard to carbon > build up in the squish area. > > > > Thanks for the advice and all the other comments on this subject. All > much appreciated. Still a lot to learn? > > > > Tim > > > > P.S. Finally got everything together on the engine and about ready to mate > up to the transmission and put back in the car. Looking forward to ELVF > next month. That will be the test. > > > > *From:* fubog1 [mailto:fubog1 at aol.com ] > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 16, 2017 5:27 PM > *To:* timmmurphh at gmail.com; fot at autox.team.net > *Subject:* Re: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? > > > > Check the gasket thickness, it depends on what piston/wall clearance, > rods, and RPM you use. > You generally need around .030 piston/head with stock rods, so add that to > your pop-up of .010 for minimum gasket thickness. > If you run good rods you can run a little less before the pistons smack > the head. > It's perfect when there isn't any carbon build up on the piston tops under > the squish area. > When it's not right, it goes BRRRRRRRRRRRRR... > HTH > Glen > > > > After all the machining to get the stick out > right I now have the pistons sticking up about 0.010 above the tops of the > liners. No problem with the composite Payen head gasket. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: timmmurphh--- via Fot > To: fot > Sent: Wed, Aug 16, 2017 5:48 pm > Subject: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: timmmurphh at gmail.com [mailto:timmmurphh at gmail.com > ] > Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 12:20 PM > To: 'Tony Drews' > Cc: ryan.murphy at fdlco.wi.gov; Steve Yott > Subject: RE: [Fot] Grattan VSCDA next weekend? > > Sadly, we won't be able to make it. > > I just got the block back from the machine shop last Tuesday. Not enough > time to get everything together and in the car and ready to go by Thursday. > The good news is the liner stick out is the 0.004 the machine shop said > they > machined the liner seats and deck to. It's still a bitch to measure, as the > liners "wobble" on the seats and when you're looking for 0.004 it's a > problem. I finally have a decent dial indicator gage setup to at least give > repeatable readings. The figure 8's used was a set of copper ones I had > that measured 0.016. The machining was done on a single setup on a Rottler > floor type vertical 4-inch spindle milling/boring machine. These are > special purpose machine tools built specifically to machine engine parts, > such as blocks and heads. After all the machining to get the stick out > right I now have the pistons sticking up about 0.010 above the tops of the > liners. No problem with the composite Payen head gasket. > > Thanks for all the responses to the Figure 8 gasket question. I did > eventually hear back from Moss UK. They said their steel fig. 8's are 0.016 > and their copper fig. 8's were 0.018. No explanation regarding the > different thickness other that they have not had reported problems with the > gaskets. I'm not sure where the 0.020 thick copper ones that I measured > came from or for that matter, the 0.016 thick copper ones I'm using. > > Tim & Ryan Murphy > 1961 ('61, it is Comm. No. 511 and was built in 1961 per British Heritage) > TR4 #317 BRG > > -----Original Message----- > From: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net ] > On Behalf Of Tony Drews via > Fot > Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2017 6:21 PM > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] Grattan VSCDA next weekend? > > Anyone else going to Grattan next weekend? > > Vroom, vroom, Tony Drews > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/timmmurphh at gmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/ > options/fot/fubog1 at aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/ > options/fot/jhasty at mhc-law.com > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic mail transmission has been sent by > a law firm on a legal matter. It may contain information that is > confidential, privileged, proprietary, or otherwise legally exempt from > disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified > that you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate > this message, any part of it, or any attachments. If you have received this > message in error, please delete this message and any attachments from your > system without reading the content and notify the sender immediately of the > inadvertent transmission. There is no intent on the part of the sender to > waive any privilege, including the attorney-client privilege, that may > attach to this communication. Thank you for your cooperation. 11 U.S.C. > 528(a)(4) NOTICE. We are a debt relief agency. We help people file for > bankruptcy relief under the federal Bankruptcy Code. > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/ > options/fot/kaskastner at gmail.com > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ponobill at gmail.com Wed Aug 23 22:19:13 2017 From: ponobill at gmail.com (Bill) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 21:19:13 -0700 Subject: [Fot] piston/head clearance References: <001d01d31c5c$44ed2ec0$cec78c40$@gmail.com> The theory about squish area in two strokes is that besides generating turbulence (thus mixing) and moving the majority of the mix to the middle of the head, that the relatively cool surfaces in close proximity to the mix slow the flame front headed for the cylinder wall and prevent detonation. If the squish band is too tight the gasses cool too much and don?t burn to the edges. The piston is still moving upwards at that point so partially burned gases push back into the non-squish area as well and screw up complete burning. One of the reasons that head and piston tops needed to be decarbonized was closing up the squish gap and losing horsepower. At least that?s what Gordon Jennings said. I always believed him. > On Aug 23, 2017, at 6:46 PM, Kas Kastner via Fot wrote: > > This is a very interesting subject. In the thousands of hours of dyno testing I did in the 60's, the squish area clearance was never addressed with exception of making certain the piston did not hit the head. Off hand, when the clearance is too close it rather sounds like there is insufficient volume in the squish at TDC to do its job of properly exciting the balance of fuel mixture when it squirts back into the combustion chamber thus making a better mixed and thus more powerful combustion moment. Or maybe something else :-) > > Never be beaten by equipment. > > > Interesting... We found 1.5 mm in the 250 two strokes was the best.... > > Sent from my iPhone > > >> On dyno test we found a disturbing issue that lowers the power if the piston to head clearance is less than 0.039?. >> >> We didn?t find a cause for this but tested thoroughly clearances from 0.0236? upwards. >> >> Best power reading was with 0.0472?. >> >> >> >> Cheers >> >> Chris >> >> >> >> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 23. August 2017 23:52 >> Betreff: Re: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? piston/head clearance >> >> >> >> With the good rods and reasonable rpm you have plenty of clearance. >> You don't want too much clearance either cuz then it lessens the "squish" effect. >> The idea is to have enough clearance for all running conditions, plus a few thou safety margin, and no more. >> Glen >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> Sent: Wed, Aug 23, 2017 3:38 pm >> Subject: RE: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? piston/head clearance >> >> The Payen head gasket last used was compressed to 0.055 at the fire ring. So, with the 0.010 pop-up that I have from the all efforts to deck the block, I will have 0.045 clearance. I have Carrillo rods and we try to stay to under 6000 RPM for engine ?longevity?. (Not sure ?longevity? is a term that can be used with a race engine!) At the most we?ll hit 6200 or 6300 RPM briefly before upshifting. Therefore, I should be within the 0.030 clearance that you recommended. It will be interesting to see what the top of the pistons looks like on the next rebuild with regard to carbon build up in the squish area. >> >> >> >> Thanks for the advice and all the other comments on this subject. All much appreciated. Still a lot to learn? >> >> >> >> Tim >> >> >> >> P.S. Finally got everything together on the engine and about ready to mate up to the transmission and put back in the car. Looking forward to ELVF next month. That will be the test. >> >> ? <> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 5:27 PM >> Subject: Re: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? >> >> >> >> Check the gasket thickness, it depends on what piston/wall clearance, rods, and RPM you use. >> You generally need around .030 piston/head with stock rods, so add that to your pop-up of .010 for minimum gasket thickness. >> If you run good rods you can run a little less before the pistons smack the head. >> It's perfect when there isn't any carbon build up on the piston tops under the squish area. >> When it's not right, it goes BRRRRRRRRRRRRR... >> HTH >> Glen >> >> >> >> After all the machining to get the stick out >> right I now have the pistons sticking up about 0.010 above the tops of the >> liners. No problem with the composite Payen head gasket. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> Sent: Wed, Aug 16, 2017 5:48 pm >> Subject: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 12:20 PM >> Subject: RE: [Fot] Grattan VSCDA next weekend? >> >> Sadly, we won't be able to make it. >> >> I just got the block back from the machine shop last Tuesday. Not enough >> time to get everything together and in the car and ready to go by Thursday. >> The good news is the liner stick out is the 0.004 the machine shop said they >> machined the liner seats and deck to. It's still a bitch to measure, as the >> liners "wobble" on the seats and when you're looking for 0.004 it's a >> problem. I finally have a decent dial indicator gage setup to at least give >> repeatable readings. The figure 8's used was a set of copper ones I had >> that measured 0.016. The machining was done on a single setup on a Rottler >> floor type vertical 4-inch spindle milling/boring machine. These are >> special purpose machine tools built specifically to machine engine parts, >> such as blocks and heads. After all the machining to get the stick out >> right I now have the pistons sticking up about 0.010 above the tops of the >> liners. No problem with the composite Payen head gasket. >> >> Thanks for all the responses to the Figure 8 gasket question. I did >> eventually hear back from Moss UK. They said their steel fig. 8's are 0.016 >> and their copper fig. 8's were 0.018. No explanation regarding the >> different thickness other that they have not had reported problems with the >> gaskets. I'm not sure where the 0.020 thick copper ones that I measured >> came from or for that matter, the 0.016 thick copper ones I'm using. >> >> Tim & Ryan Murphy >> 1961 ('61, it is Comm. No. 511 and was built in 1961 per British Heritage) >> TR4 #317 BRG >> >> -----Original Message----- >> Fot >> Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2017 6:21 PM >> Subject: [Fot] Grattan VSCDA next weekend? >> >> Anyone else going to Grattan next weekend? >> >> Vroom, vroom, Tony Drews >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/timmmurphh at gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/fubog1 at aol.com _______________________________________________ >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhasty at mhc-law.com >> >> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic mail transmission has been sent by a law firm on a legal matter. It may contain information that is confidential, privileged, proprietary, or otherwise legally exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate this message, any part of it, or any attachments. If you have received this message in error, please delete this message and any attachments from your system without reading the content and notify the sender immediately of the inadvertent transmission. There is no intent on the part of the sender to waive any privilege, including the attorney-client privilege, that may attach to this communication. Thank you for your cooperation. 11 U.S.C. 528(a)(4) NOTICE. We are a debt relief agency. We help people file for bankruptcy relief under the federal Bankruptcy Code. > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/kaskastner at gmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/bill at ponostyle.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mdporter at dfn.com Wed Aug 23 22:52:18 2017 From: mdporter at dfn.com (Michael Porter) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 22:52:18 -0600 Subject: [Fot] piston/head clearance References: <001d01d31c5c$44ed2ec0$cec78c40$@gmail.com> On 8/23/2017 7:46 PM, Kas Kastner via Fot wrote: > This is a very interesting subject.? In ?the thousands of hours of > dyno testing I did in the 60's, the squish area clearance was never > addressed with exception of making certain the piston did not hit the > head. Off hand, when the clearance is too close it rather sounds like > there is insufficient volume in the squish at TDC to do its job of > properly exciting the balance of fuel mixture when it squirts back > into the combustion chamber thus making a better mixed and ?thus more > powerful combustion moment. Or maybe something else :-) There's probably some arcane and obscure hydrodynamics formula that explains this phenomenon, of which I'm completely unaware, but, thinking this through, I doubt that the effects on turbulence at precisely TDC are all that important in this context. The jet effect produced by the squish area is the result of the rising piston approaching TDC. I suspect that this has to do with stagnant mixture acting as a buffer to and barrier against expanding gas intrusion into the squish area at TDC, and there may be some thermodynamic effects, as well, because of the proximity of the squish area to the piston (gas in that region may be cooler and denser than in the flame front, and the nearness of the two surfaces may extract more heat from the volume of mixture trapped there).? Peak BMEP ideally arrives a smidgen after TDC.? We know that gas pressure exerts equal force in all directions, but that's at equilibrium.? Bernoulli's equations show that, dynamically, there are different pressures at different points. As the piston approaches TDC, the mixture is already burning, pressure is going up, and the velocity of the mixture escaping the squish area is rising rapidly.? Research into Reynolds effects show that as the flow increases, even if that flow is turbulent, the boundary layer of stagnant fluid gets thinner and denser, and its kinetic viscosity goes up.? The squish area and the piston, when in very close proximity, form a classic flow through two plates, which is defined by the distance between the plates.? I suspect that when the distance between the two surfaces decreases to the point that the two boundary layers meet, flow stops, and the fluid begins to behave more like a solid.? Dynamically, gas pressure in the cylinder and combustion chamber sees a little thin lateral ridge of dense and viscous gas and pushes against it, rather than against the squish area and the piston.? The effect is that of applying BMEP across a smaller area of the piston for a very brief period of time, thus reducing the amount of total force applied to the piston, hence, less power. This near-instantaneous effect might be small, except that at this point in crank rotation, the piston isn't moving much because for a significant number of degrees of rotation before and after TDC, the connecting rod big end is mostly moving sideways, so that effective gap between squish area and piston crown is changing very little. It's not until that gap starts to increase that the expanding gas can get between the boundary layers and exert force on the entire piston crown. Or maybe it's something else.? :) Cheers. -- Michael Porter Roswell, NM Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance.... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dlhogye at comcast.net Thu Aug 24 09:41:36 2017 From: dlhogye at comcast.net (davehogye) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 15:41:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fot] VM KCup Snook POTL Hello Friends, Burt Levy wrote a nice Blackhawk Farms article in the latest Vintage Motorsport magazine. Of course the Kastner Cup race is highlighted. Congratulation to Jeff Snook and his TR3 for getting the "Pick of the Litter" section. Man Jeff, your TR sure is low. You must be hard on the brakes and the front suspension fully compressed to the bump stops. Dave H. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rkrantz77 at comcast.net Thu Aug 24 11:14:26 2017 From: rkrantz77 at comcast.net (Ron KRANTZ) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 13:14:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] piston/head clearance References: <001d01d31c5c$44ed2ec0$cec78c40$@gmail.com> <71C428D8-E92A-4E2F-9A4A-7D95B57BACA9@ponostyle.com> I will chime in with my experience on Spitfires. Bill is right in regards to the importance of flame front and complete combustion. When I remove a head the first thing I look at is the top of the pistons. If there is black carbon build up or shiny areas around the edges you are leaving Hp on the table. Flame travel is not only dependent on piston/head clearance but also combustion chamber contours. Just like in the intake runners, air/fuel does not like sharp corners. After a head is decked I go back in and put a lead in radius on the squish area and a matching radius on the piston dome/popup to get 0.030" clearance. Piston design is another hole topic. I will just say that I leave an area for the flame front to travel to the piston OD. Complete combustion is a much more complex subject. Cam timing, fuel mixture, ignition timing, combustion chamber design, even exhaust header design can influence how complete the combustion is. An engine is an air pump, Air/fuel in and exhaust gases out. The more "fresh" air/fuel in, the more potential power produced. We are talking about 4 cycle engines so flame travel and combustion is only 25% of the complete process. Once you maximize complete combustion on your current combination of components, you need to look at where the choke is in the system. The choke is whatever is limiting flow through the engine. Typically on Spitfires it is valve size in SCCA. Thus you need to push more air in and push/suck more air out (intake /exhaust cycles). Then with all that extra air you need to add more fuel and you are back to where this started. Ron Krantz ReK Racing > On August 24, 2017 at 12:19 AM Bill via Fot wrote: > > The theory about squish area in two strokes is that besides generating turbulence (thus mixing) and moving the majority of the mix to the middle of the head, that the relatively cool surfaces in close proximity to the mix slow the flame front headed for the cylinder wall and prevent detonation. If the squish band is too tight the gasses cool too much and don?t burn to the edges. The piston is still moving upwards at that point so partially burned gases push back into the non-squish area as well and screw up complete burning. One of the reasons that head and piston tops needed to be decarbonized was closing up the squish gap and losing horsepower. > > At least that?s what Gordon Jennings said. I always believed him. > > > > > On Aug 23, 2017, at 6:46 PM, Kas Kastner via Fot wrote: > > > > This is a very interesting subject. In the thousands of hours of dyno testing I did in the 60's, the squish area clearance was never addressed with exception of making certain the piston did not hit the head. Off hand, when the clearance is too close it rather sounds like there is insufficient volume in the squish at TDC to do its job of properly exciting the balance of fuel mixture when it squirts back into the combustion chamber thus making a better mixed and thus more powerful combustion moment. Or maybe something else :-) > > > > > > Never be beaten by equipment. > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 3:47 PM, John Hasty via Fot wrote: > > > > > > > Interesting... We found 1.5 mm in the 250 two strokes was the best.... > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > > On Aug 23, 2017, at 6:31 PM, "Chris Marx via Fot" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On dyno test we found a disturbing issue that lowers the power if the piston to head clearance is less than 0.039?. > > > > > > > > We didn?t find a cause for this but tested thoroughly clearances from 0.0236? upwards. > > > > > > > > Best power reading was with 0.0472?. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Von: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net ] Im Auftrag von fubog1 via Fot > > > > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 23. August 2017 23:52 > > > > An: timmmurphh at gmail.com mailto:timmmurphh at gmail.com ; fot at autox.team.net mailto:fot at autox.team.net > > > > Betreff: Re: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? piston/head clearance > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With the good rods and reasonable rpm you have plenty of clearance. > > > > You don't want too much clearance either cuz then it lessens the "squish" effect. > > > > The idea is to have enough clearance for all running conditions, plus a few thou safety margin, and no more. > > > > Glen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: timmmurphh > > > > To: 'fubog1' ; fot > > > > Sent: Wed, Aug 23, 2017 3:38 pm > > > > Subject: RE: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? piston/head clearance > > > > > > > > The Payen head gasket last used was compressed to 0.055 at the fire ring. So, with the 0.010 pop-up that I have from the all efforts to deck the block, I will have 0.045 clearance. I have Carrillo rods and we try to stay to under 6000 RPM for engine ?longevity?. (Not sure ?longevity? is a term that can be used with a race engine!) At the most we?ll hit 6200 or 6300 RPM briefly before upshifting. Therefore, I should be within the 0.030 clearance that you recommended. It will be interesting to see what the top of the pistons looks like on the next rebuild with regard to carbon build up in the squish area. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the advice and all the other comments on this subject. All much appreciated. Still a lot to learn? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. Finally got everything together on the engine and about ready to mate up to the transmission and put back in the car. Looking forward to ELVF next month. That will be the test. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: fubog1 [mailto:fubog1 at aol.com] > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 5:27 PM > > > > To: timmmurphh at gmail.com mailto:timmmurphh at gmail.com ; fot at autox.team.net mailto:fot at autox.team.net > > > > Subject: Re: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Check the gasket thickness, it depends on what piston/wall clearance, rods, and RPM you use. > > > > You generally need around .030 piston/head with stock rods, so add that to your pop-up of .010 for minimum gasket thickness. > > > > If you run good rods you can run a little less before the pistons smack the head. > > > > It's perfect when there isn't any carbon build up on the piston tops under the squish area. > > > > When it's not right, it goes BRRRRRRRRRRRRR... > > > > HTH > > > > Glen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After all the machining to get the stick out > > > > > right I now have the pistons sticking up about 0.010 above the tops of the > > > > > liners. No problem with the composite Payen head gasket. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: timmmurphh--- via Fot > > > > To: fot > > > > Sent: Wed, Aug 16, 2017 5:48 pm > > > > Subject: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: timmmurphh at gmail.com mailto:timmmurphh at gmail.com [mailto:timmmurphh at gmail.com] > > > > Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 12:20 PM > > > > To: 'Tony Drews' > > > > Cc: ryan.murphy at fdlco.wi.gov mailto:ryan.murphy at fdlco.wi.gov ; Steve Yott > > > > Subject: RE: [Fot] Grattan VSCDA next weekend? > > > > > > > > Sadly, we won't be able to make it. > > > > > > > > I just got the block back from the machine shop last Tuesday. Not enough > > > > time to get everything together and in the car and ready to go by Thursday. > > > > The good news is the liner stick out is the 0.004 the machine shop said they > > > > machined the liner seats and deck to. It's still a bitch to measure, as the > > > > liners "wobble" on the seats and when you're looking for 0.004 it's a > > > > problem. I finally have a decent dial indicator gage setup to at least give > > > > repeatable readings. The figure 8's used was a set of copper ones I had > > > > that measured 0.016. The machining was done on a single setup on a Rottler > > > > floor type vertical 4-inch spindle milling/boring machine. These are > > > > special purpose machine tools built specifically to machine engine parts, > > > > such as blocks and heads. After all the machining to get the stick out > > > > right I now have the pistons sticking up about 0.010 above the tops of the > > > > liners. No problem with the composite Payen head gasket. > > > > > > > > Thanks for all the responses to the Figure 8 gasket question. I did > > > > eventually hear back from Moss UK. They said their steel fig. 8's are 0.016 > > > > and their copper fig. 8's were 0.018. No explanation regarding the > > > > different thickness other that they have not had reported problems with the > > > > gaskets. I'm not sure where the 0.020 thick copper ones that I measured > > > > came from or for that matter, the 0.016 thick copper ones I'm using. > > > > > > > > Tim & Ryan Murphy > > > > 1961 ('61, it is Comm. No. 511 and was built in 1961 per British Heritage) > > > > TR4 #317 BRG > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net ] On Behalf Of Tony Drews via > > > > Fot > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2017 6:21 PM > > > > To: fot at autox.team.net mailto:fot at autox.team.net > > > > Subject: [Fot] Grattan VSCDA next weekend? > > > > > > > > Anyone else going to Grattan next weekend? > > > > > > > > Vroom, vroom, Tony Drews > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > fot at autox.team.net mailto:fot at autox.team.net > > > > > > > > http://www.fot-racing.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > > > > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > > > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > > > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/timmmurphh at gmail.com http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/timmmurphh at gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > fot at autox.team.net mailto:fot at autox.team.net > > > > > > > > http://www.fot-racing.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > > > > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > > > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/fubog1 at aol.com http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/fubog1 at aol.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > fot at autox.team.net mailto:fot at autox.team.net > > > > > > > > http://www.fot-racing.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > > > > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > > > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhasty at mhc-law.com http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhasty at mhc-law.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic mail transmission has been sent by a law firm on a legal matter. It may contain information that is confidential, privileged, proprietary, or otherwise legally exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate this message, any part of it, or any attachments. If you have received this message in error, please delete this message and any attachments from your system without reading the content and notify the sender immediately of the inadvertent transmission. There is no intent on the part of the sender to waive any privilege, including the attorney-client privilege, that may attach to this communication. Thank you for your cooperation. 11 U.S.C. 528(a)(4) NOTICE. We are a debt relief agency. We help people file for bankruptcy relief under the federal Bankruptcy Code. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > fot at autox.team.net mailto:fot at autox.team.net > > > > > > http://www.fot-racing.com/ > > > > > > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > > > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/kaskastner at gmail.com http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/kaskastner at gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > fot at autox.team.net mailto:fot at autox.team.net > > > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/bill at ponostyle.com > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkrantz77 at comcast.net > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billdentin at aol.com Thu Aug 24 12:38:18 2017 From: billdentin at aol.com (Bill Dentinger) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 14:38:18 -0400 Subject: [Fot] VM KCup Snook POTL References: <374327890.67839070.1503589296656.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> Dave... Naw! The Snookster has put on a couple of pounds recently. I think he is up to 118 pounds now. But when he steps out of the car, it pops right back up to normal TR3 ride heights. Bill Dentinger -----Original Message----- From: davehogye via Fot To: Friends of Triumph Sent: Thu, Aug 24, 2017 11:13 am Subject: [Fot] VM KCup Snook POTL Hello Friends, Burt Levy wrote a nice Blackhawk Farms article in the latest Vintage Motorsport magazine. Of course the Kastner Cup race is highlighted. Congratulation to Jeff Snook and his TR3 for getting the "Pick of the Litter" section. Man Jeff, your TR sure is low. You must be hard on the brakes and the front suspension fully compressed to the bump stops. Dave H. _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Thu Aug 24 12:49:39 2017 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (Jim Gray) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 12:49:39 -0600 Subject: [Fot] piston/head clearance References: <001d01d31c5c$44ed2ec0$cec78c40$@gmail.com> Chris, I finding it interesting you saw best power at .472. How much change in compression ratio did you get from .023 to .047. Im assuming you tried different ignition timing and at what Compression ratio did you start with? Jim g Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 23, 2017, at 4:07 PM, Chris Marx via Fot wrote: > > On dyno test we found a disturbing issue that lowers the power if the piston to head clearance is less than 0.039?. > We didn?t find a cause for this but tested thoroughly clearances from 0.0236? upwards. > Best power reading was with 0.0472?. > > Cheers > Chris > > Von: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von fubog1 via Fot > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 23. August 2017 23:52 > An: timmmurphh at gmail.com; fot at autox.team.net > Betreff: Re: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? piston/head clearance > > With the good rods and reasonable rpm you have plenty of clearance. > You don't want too much clearance either cuz then it lessens the "squish" effect. > The idea is to have enough clearance for all running conditions, plus a few thou safety margin, and no more. > Glen > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: timmmurphh > To: 'fubog1' ; fot > Sent: Wed, Aug 23, 2017 3:38 pm > Subject: RE: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? piston/head clearance > > The Payen head gasket last used was compressed to 0.055 at the fire ring. So, with the 0.010 pop-up that I have from the all efforts to deck the block, I will have 0.045 clearance. I have Carrillo rods and we try to stay to under 6000 RPM for engine ?longevity?. (Not sure ?longevity? is a term that can be used with a race engine!) At the most we?ll hit 6200 or 6300 RPM briefly before upshifting. Therefore, I should be within the 0.030 clearance that you recommended. It will be interesting to see what the top of the pistons looks like on the next rebuild with regard to carbon build up in the squish area. > > Thanks for the advice and all the other comments on this subject. All much appreciated. Still a lot to learn? > > Tim > > P.S. Finally got everything together on the engine and about ready to mate up to the transmission and put back in the car. Looking forward to ELVF next month. That will be the test. > > From: fubog1 [mailto:fubog1 at aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 5:27 PM > To: timmmurphh at gmail.com; fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? > > Check the gasket thickness, it depends on what piston/wall clearance, rods, and RPM you use. > You generally need around .030 piston/head with stock rods, so add that to your pop-up of .010 for minimum gasket thickness. > If you run good rods you can run a little less before the pistons smack the head. > It's perfect when there isn't any carbon build up on the piston tops under the squish area. > When it's not right, it goes BRRRRRRRRRRRRR... > HTH > Glen > > After all the machining to get the stick out > right I now have the pistons sticking up about 0.010 above the tops of the > liners. No problem with the composite Payen head gasket. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: timmmurphh--- via Fot > To: fot > Sent: Wed, Aug 16, 2017 5:48 pm > Subject: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: timmmurphh at gmail.com [mailto:timmmurphh at gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 12:20 PM > To: 'Tony Drews' > Cc: ryan.murphy at fdlco.wi.gov; Steve Yott > Subject: RE: [Fot] Grattan VSCDA next weekend? > > Sadly, we won't be able to make it. > > I just got the block back from the machine shop last Tuesday. Not enough > time to get everything together and in the car and ready to go by Thursday. > The good news is the liner stick out is the 0.004 the machine shop said they > machined the liner seats and deck to. It's still a bitch to measure, as the > liners "wobble" on the seats and when you're looking for 0.004 it's a > problem. I finally have a decent dial indicator gage setup to at least give > repeatable readings. The figure 8's used was a set of copper ones I had > that measured 0.016. The machining was done on a single setup on a Rottler > floor type vertical 4-inch spindle milling/boring machine. These are > special purpose machine tools built specifically to machine engine parts, > such as blocks and heads. After all the machining to get the stick out > right I now have the pistons sticking up about 0.010 above the tops of the > liners. No problem with the composite Payen head gasket. > > Thanks for all the responses to the Figure 8 gasket question. I did > eventually hear back from Moss UK. They said their steel fig. 8's are 0.016 > and their copper fig. 8's were 0.018. No explanation regarding the > different thickness other that they have not had reported problems with the > gaskets. I'm not sure where the 0.020 thick copper ones that I measured > came from or for that matter, the 0.016 thick copper ones I'm using. > > Tim & Ryan Murphy > 1961 ('61, it is Comm. No. 511 and was built in 1961 per British Heritage) > TR4 #317 BRG > > -----Original Message----- > From: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Tony Drews via > Fot > Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2017 6:21 PM > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] Grattan VSCDA next weekend? > > Anyone else going to Grattan next weekend? > > Vroom, vroom, Tony Drews > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/timmmurphh at gmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/fubog1 at aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/toodamnfunky at comcast.net > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tr4racing at googlemail.com Thu Aug 24 13:05:33 2017 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (tr4racing at googlemail.com) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 21:05:33 +0200 Subject: [Fot] piston/head clearance References: <001d01d31c5c$44ed2ec0$cec78c40$@gmail.com> <1BF03DA0-EAC7-4A98-B001-D1AA680707C3@comcast.net> Hi Jim, the change in compression ratio is not that big. My compression ratio is around 11.3:1. So with the thicker gasket you get 10.9, with the thinnest 11.5?.so just about these values. It doesn?t hurt so much the power output, more the torque. With European 102 octane fuel I run about 28 degree of advance. More didn?t give more power. Cheers Chris Von: Jim Gray [mailto:toodamnfunky at comcast.net] Gesendet: Donnerstag, 24. August 2017 20:50 An: tr4racing at googlemail.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Betreff: Re: [Fot] piston/head clearance Chris, I finding it interesting you saw best power at .472. How much change in compression ratio did you get from .023 to .047. Im assuming you tried different ignition timing and at what Compression ratio did you start with? Jim g Sent from my iPhone On dyno test we found a disturbing issue that lowers the power if the piston to head clearance is less than 0.039?. We didn?t find a cause for this but tested thoroughly clearances from 0.0236? upwards. Best power reading was with 0.0472?. Cheers Chris Von: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von fubog1 via Fot Gesendet: Mittwoch, 23. August 2017 23:52 Betreff: Re: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? piston/head clearance With the good rods and reasonable rpm you have plenty of clearance. You don't want too much clearance either cuz then it lessens the "squish" effect. The idea is to have enough clearance for all running conditions, plus a few thou safety margin, and no more. Glen -----Original Message----- Sent: Wed, Aug 23, 2017 3:38 pm Subject: RE: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? piston/head clearance The Payen head gasket last used was compressed to 0.055 at the fire ring. So, with the 0.010 pop-up that I have from the all efforts to deck the block, I will have 0.045 clearance. I have Carrillo rods and we try to stay to under 6000 RPM for engine ?longevity?. (Not sure ?longevity? is a term that can be used with a race engine!) At the most we?ll hit 6200 or 6300 RPM briefly before upshifting. Therefore, I should be within the 0.030 clearance that you recommended. It will be interesting to see what the top of the pistons looks like on the next rebuild with regard to carbon build up in the squish area. Thanks for the advice and all the other comments on this subject. All much appreciated. Still a lot to learn? Tim P.S. Finally got everything together on the engine and about ready to mate up to the transmission and put back in the car. Looking forward to ELVF next month. That will be the test. From: fubog1 [mailto:fubog1 at aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? Check the gasket thickness, it depends on what piston/wall clearance, rods, and RPM you use. You generally need around .030 piston/head with stock rods, so add that to your pop-up of .010 for minimum gasket thickness. If you run good rods you can run a little less before the pistons smack the head. It's perfect when there isn't any carbon build up on the piston tops under the squish area. When it's not right, it goes BRRRRRRRRRRRRR... HTH Glen After all the machining to get the stick out right I now have the pistons sticking up about 0.010 above the tops of the liners. No problem with the composite Payen head gasket. -----Original Message----- Sent: Wed, Aug 16, 2017 5:48 pm Subject: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 12:20 PM Subject: RE: [Fot] Grattan VSCDA next weekend? Sadly, we won't be able to make it. I just got the block back from the machine shop last Tuesday. Not enough time to get everything together and in the car and ready to go by Thursday. The good news is the liner stick out is the 0.004 the machine shop said they machined the liner seats and deck to. It's still a bitch to measure, as the liners "wobble" on the seats and when you're looking for 0.004 it's a problem. I finally have a decent dial indicator gage setup to at least give repeatable readings. The figure 8's used was a set of copper ones I had that measured 0.016. The machining was done on a single setup on a Rottler floor type vertical 4-inch spindle milling/boring machine. These are special purpose machine tools built specifically to machine engine parts, such as blocks and heads. After all the machining to get the stick out right I now have the pistons sticking up about 0.010 above the tops of the liners. No problem with the composite Payen head gasket. Thanks for all the responses to the Figure 8 gasket question. I did eventually hear back from Moss UK. They said their steel fig. 8's are 0.016 and their copper fig. 8's were 0.018. No explanation regarding the different thickness other that they have not had reported problems with the gaskets. I'm not sure where the 0.020 thick copper ones that I measured came from or for that matter, the 0.016 thick copper ones I'm using. Tim & Ryan Murphy 1961 ('61, it is Comm. No. 511 and was built in 1961 per British Heritage) TR4 #317 BRG -----Original Message----- From: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Tony Drews via Fot Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2017 6:21 PM Subject: [Fot] Grattan VSCDA next weekend? Anyone else going to Grattan next weekend? Vroom, vroom, Tony Drews _______________________________________________ http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/timmmurphh at gmail.com _______________________________________________ http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kaskastner at gmail.com Thu Aug 24 13:48:45 2017 From: kaskastner at gmail.com (Kas Kastner) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 12:48:45 -0700 Subject: [Fot] piston/head clearance References: <001d01d31c5c$44ed2ec0$cec78c40$@gmail.com> <1BF03DA0-EAC7-4A98-B001-D1AA680707C3@comcast.net> i don't think is .472" Jim that is almost a half inch. I think you forgot the "0" . *Never be beaten by equipment.* On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 11:49 AM, Jim Gray via Fot wrote: > Chris, > I finding it interesting you saw best power at .472. How much change in > compression ratio did you get from > .023 to .047. Im assuming you tried different ignition timing and at what > Compression ratio did you start with? > Jim g > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 23, 2017, at 4:07 PM, Chris Marx via Fot > wrote: > > On dyno test we found a disturbing issue that lowers the power if the > piston to head clearance is less than 0.039?. > > We didn?t find a cause for this but tested thoroughly clearances from > 0.0236? upwards. > > Best power reading was with 0.0472?. > > > > Cheers > > Chris > > > > *Von:* Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net ] > *Im Auftrag von *fubog1 via Fot > *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 23. August 2017 23:52 > *An:* timmmurphh at gmail.com; fot at autox.team.net > *Betreff:* Re: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? piston/head clearance > > > > With the good rods and reasonable rpm you have plenty of clearance. > You don't want too much clearance either cuz then it lessens the "squish" > effect. > The idea is to have enough clearance for all running conditions, plus a > few thou safety margin, and no more. > Glen > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: timmmurphh > To: 'fubog1' ; fot > Sent: Wed, Aug 23, 2017 3:38 pm > Subject: RE: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? piston/head clearance > > The Payen head gasket last used was compressed to 0.055 at the fire ring. > So, with the 0.010 pop-up that I have from the all efforts to deck the > block, I will have 0.045 clearance. I have Carrillo rods and we try to > stay to under 6000 RPM for engine ?longevity?. (Not sure ?longevity? is a > term that can be used with a race engine!) At the most we?ll hit 6200 or > 6300 RPM briefly before upshifting. Therefore, I should be within the > 0.030 clearance that you recommended. It will be interesting to see what > the top of the pistons looks like on the next rebuild with regard to carbon > build up in the squish area. > > > > Thanks for the advice and all the other comments on this subject. All > much appreciated. Still a lot to learn? > > > > Tim > > > > P.S. Finally got everything together on the engine and about ready to mate > up to the transmission and put back in the car. Looking forward to ELVF > next month. That will be the test. > > > > *From:* fubog1 [mailto:fubog1 at aol.com ] > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 16, 2017 5:27 PM > *To:* timmmurphh at gmail.com; fot at autox.team.net > *Subject:* Re: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? > > > > Check the gasket thickness, it depends on what piston/wall clearance, > rods, and RPM you use. > You generally need around .030 piston/head with stock rods, so add that to > your pop-up of .010 for minimum gasket thickness. > If you run good rods you can run a little less before the pistons smack > the head. > It's perfect when there isn't any carbon build up on the piston tops under > the squish area. > When it's not right, it goes BRRRRRRRRRRRRR... > HTH > Glen > > > > After all the machining to get the stick out > right I now have the pistons sticking up about 0.010 above the tops of the > liners. No problem with the composite Payen head gasket. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: timmmurphh--- via Fot > To: fot > Sent: Wed, Aug 16, 2017 5:48 pm > Subject: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: timmmurphh at gmail.com [mailto:timmmurphh at gmail.com > ] > Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 12:20 PM > To: 'Tony Drews' > Cc: ryan.murphy at fdlco.wi.gov; Steve Yott > Subject: RE: [Fot] Grattan VSCDA next weekend? > > Sadly, we won't be able to make it. > > I just got the block back from the machine shop last Tuesday. Not enough > time to get everything together and in the car and ready to go by Thursday. > The good news is the liner stick out is the 0.004 the machine shop said > they > machined the liner seats and deck to. It's still a bitch to measure, as the > liners "wobble" on the seats and when you're looking for 0.004 it's a > problem. I finally have a decent dial indicator gage setup to at least give > repeatable readings. The figure 8's used was a set of copper ones I had > that measured 0.016. The machining was done on a single setup on a Rottler > floor type vertical 4-inch spindle milling/boring machine. These are > special purpose machine tools built specifically to machine engine parts, > such as blocks and heads. After all the machining to get the stick out > right I now have the pistons sticking up about 0.010 above the tops of the > liners. No problem with the composite Payen head gasket. > > Thanks for all the responses to the Figure 8 gasket question. I did > eventually hear back from Moss UK. They said their steel fig. 8's are 0.016 > and their copper fig. 8's were 0.018. No explanation regarding the > different thickness other that they have not had reported problems with the > gaskets. I'm not sure where the 0.020 thick copper ones that I measured > came from or for that matter, the 0.016 thick copper ones I'm using. > > Tim & Ryan Murphy > 1961 ('61, it is Comm. No. 511 and was built in 1961 per British Heritage) > TR4 #317 BRG > > -----Original Message----- > From: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net ] > On Behalf Of Tony Drews via > Fot > Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2017 6:21 PM > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: [Fot] Grattan VSCDA next weekend? > > Anyone else going to Grattan next weekend? > > Vroom, vroom, Tony Drews > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/timmmurphh at gmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/ > options/fot/fubog1 at aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/ > options/fot/toodamnfunky at comcast.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/ > options/fot/kaskastner at gmail.com > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gasket.works at verizon.net Thu Aug 24 13:54:49 2017 From: gasket.works at verizon.net (Mordy Dunst) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 15:54:49 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Front stub axle spindle taper Anyone know the spindle taper designation for the (front stub axle) vertical link? Thnx MDunst Headgasket.com 626.358.1616 Fax 626.628.3777 Triple R Munitions, Inc 626.201.9471 T FFL 6,7 SOT 2 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Thu Aug 24 16:35:29 2017 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 18:35:29 -0400 Subject: [Fot] piston/head clearance That's a significant difference in CR. I'm still trying to wrap my mind around how extra piston/head clearance is a power gain, but I can't argue with real world dyno tests, all being equal, CR included. Glen -----Original Message----- From: Chris Marx via Fot To: 'Jim Gray' ; tr4racing Cc: fot Sent: Thu, Aug 24, 2017 4:29 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] piston/head clearance Hi Jim, the change in compression ratio is not that big. My compression ratio is around 11.3:1. So with the thicker gasket you get 10.9, with the thinnest 11.5?.so just about these values. It doesn?t hurt so much the power output, more the torque. With European 102 octane fuel I run about 28 degree of advance. More didn?t give more power. Cheers Chris Von: Jim Gray [mailto:toodamnfunky at comcast.net] Gesendet: Donnerstag, 24. August 2017 20:50 An: tr4racing at googlemail.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Betreff: Re: [Fot] piston/head clearance Chris, I finding it interesting you saw best power at .472. How much change in compression ratio did you get from .023 to .047. Im assuming you tried different ignition timing and at what Compression ratio did you start with? Jim g Sent from my iPhone On Aug 23, 2017, at 4:07 PM, Chris Marx via Fot wrote: On dyno test we found a disturbing issue that lowers the power if the piston to head clearance is less than 0.039?. We didn?t find a cause for this but tested thoroughly clearances from 0.0236? upwards. Best power reading was with 0.0472?. Cheers Chris Von: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von fubog1 via Fot Gesendet: Mittwoch, 23. August 2017 23:52 An: timmmurphh at gmail.com; fot at autox.team.net Betreff: Re: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? piston/head clearance With the good rods and reasonable rpm you have plenty of clearance. You don't want too much clearance either cuz then it lessens the "squish" effect. The idea is to have enough clearance for all running conditions, plus a few thou safety margin, and no more. Glen -----Original Message----- From: timmmurphh To: 'fubog1' ; fot Sent: Wed, Aug 23, 2017 3:38 pm Subject: RE: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? piston/head clearance The Payen head gasket last used was compressed to 0.055 at the fire ring. So, with the 0.010 pop-up that I have from the all efforts to deck the block, I will have 0.045 clearance. I have Carrillo rods and we try to stay to under 6000 RPM for engine ?longevity?. (Not sure ?longevity? is a term that can be used with a race engine!) At the most we?ll hit 6200 or 6300 RPM briefly before upshifting. Therefore, I should be within the 0.030 clearance that you recommended. It will be interesting to see what the top of the pistons looks like on the next rebuild with regard to carbon build up in the squish area. Thanks for the advice and all the other comments on this subject. All much appreciated. Still a lot to learn? Tim P.S. Finally got everything together on the engine and about ready to mate up to the transmission and put back in the car. Looking forward to ELVF next month. That will be the test. From: fubog1 [mailto:fubog1 at aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 5:27 PM To: timmmurphh at gmail.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? Check the gasket thickness, it depends on what piston/wall clearance, rods, and RPM you use. You generally need around .030 piston/head with stock rods, so add that to your pop-up of .010 for minimum gasket thickness. If you run good rods you can run a little less before the pistons smack the head. It's perfect when there isn't any carbon build up on the piston tops under the squish area. When it's not right, it goes BRRRRRRRRRRRRR... HTH Glen After all the machining to get the stick out right I now have the pistons sticking up about 0.010 above the tops of the liners. No problem with the composite Payen head gasket. -----Original Message----- From: timmmurphh--- via Fot To: fot Sent: Wed, Aug 16, 2017 5:48 pm Subject: [Fot] FW: Grattan VSCDA next weekend? -----Original Message----- From: timmmurphh at gmail.com [mailto:timmmurphh at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 12:20 PM To: 'Tony Drews' Cc: ryan.murphy at fdlco.wi.gov; Steve Yott Subject: RE: [Fot] Grattan VSCDA next weekend? Sadly, we won't be able to make it. I just got the block back from the machine shop last Tuesday. Not enough time to get everything together and in the car and ready to go by Thursday. The good news is the liner stick out is the 0.004 the machine shop said they machined the liner seats and deck to. It's still a bitch to measure, as the liners "wobble" on the seats and when you're looking for 0.004 it's a problem. I finally have a decent dial indicator gage setup to at least give repeatable readings. The figure 8's used was a set of copper ones I had that measured 0.016. The machining was done on a single setup on a Rottler floor type vertical 4-inch spindle milling/boring machine. These are special purpose machine tools built specifically to machine engine parts, such as blocks and heads. After all the machining to get the stick out right I now have the pistons sticking up about 0.010 above the tops of the liners. No problem with the composite Payen head gasket. Thanks for all the responses to the Figure 8 gasket question. I did eventually hear back from Moss UK. They said their steel fig. 8's are 0.016 and their copper fig. 8's were 0.018. No explanation regarding the different thickness other that they have not had reported problems with the gaskets. I'm not sure where the 0.020 thick copper ones that I measured came from or for that matter, the 0.016 thick copper ones I'm using. Tim & Ryan Murphy 1961 ('61, it is Comm. No. 511 and was built in 1961 per British Heritage) TR4 #317 BRG -----Original Message----- From: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Tony Drews via Fot Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2017 6:21 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Grattan VSCDA next weekend? Anyone else going to Grattan next weekend? Vroom, vroom, Tony Drews _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/timmmurphh at gmail.com _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhasty at mhc-law.com Thu Aug 24 17:11:08 2017 From: jhasty at mhc-law.com (John Hasty) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 23:11:08 +0000 Subject: [Fot] VM KCup Snook POTL References: <374327890.67839070.1503589296656.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>, <15e1589ae21-c11-f275@webjas-vab235.srv.aolmail.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at tonydrews.com Thu Aug 24 19:46:44 2017 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 20:46:44 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Front stub axle spindle taper References: <15e15cfbbf8-c03-f4f5@webjas-vad219.srv.aolmail.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Thu Aug 24 20:06:13 2017 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 02:06:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fot] Thank you Mark! References: <248385088.2442804.1503626773906.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks to Mark and Justin for getting me back on the list. It's been wayyyyyyyy too long.Ed in Texas -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kaskastner at gmail.com Thu Aug 24 19:33:42 2017 From: kaskastner at gmail.com (Kas Kastner) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 18:33:42 -0700 Subject: [Fot] VM KCup Snook POTL References: <374327890.67839070.1503589296656.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> <15e1589ae21-c11-f275@webjas-vab235.srv.aolmail.net> <233021FB-D32F-4141-8C86-6DEE34C26411@mhc-law.com> One hundred and five pounds of very savvy smart racing driver. *Never be beaten by equipment.* On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 4:11 PM, John Hasty via Fot wrote: > No way Bill, soaking wet maybe 105. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 24, 2017, at 3:29 PM, "Bill Dentinger via Fot" > wrote: > > Dave... > > Naw! > > The Snookster has put on a couple of pounds recently. I think he is up to > 118 pounds now. > > But when he steps out of the car, it pops right back up to normal TR3 ride > heights. > > Bill Dentinger > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: davehogye via Fot > To: Friends of Triumph > Sent: Thu, Aug 24, 2017 11:13 am > Subject: [Fot] VM KCup Snook POTL > > Hello Friends, > Burt Levy wrote a nice Blackhawk Farms article in the latest Vintage > Motorsport magazine. Of course the Kastner Cup race is highlighted. > Congratulation to Jeff Snook and his TR3 for getting the "Pick of the > Litter" section. > Man Jeff, your TR sure is low. You must be hard on the brakes and the > front suspension fully compressed to the bump stops. > > Dave H. > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/ > options/fot/billdentin at aol.com > > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/ > options/fot/jhasty at mhc-law.com > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic mail transmission has been sent by > a law firm on a legal matter. It may contain information that is > confidential, privileged, proprietary, or otherwise legally exempt from > disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified > that you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate > this message, any part of it, or any attachments. If you have received this > message in error, please delete this message and any attachments from your > system without reading the content and notify the sender immediately of the > inadvertent transmission. There is no intent on the part of the sender to > waive any privilege, including the attorney-client privilege, that may > attach to this communication. Thank you for your cooperation. 11 U.S.C. > 528(a)(4) NOTICE. We are a debt relief agency. We help people file for > bankruptcy relief under the federal Bankruptcy Code. > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/ > options/fot/kaskastner at gmail.com > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rek46 at aol.com Fri Aug 25 15:41:08 2017 From: rek46 at aol.com (Richard Kristoff) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 17:41:08 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Fwd: Race Spitfire for sale-68 rouundtail type....SCCA F/P 1296 References: <15e1b56ae4c-c10-13763@webjas-vab021.srv.aolmail.net> ? ? From: rek46 at aol.com To: mark at bradakis.com Sent: 8/25/2017 5:40:19 PM Eastern Standard Time Subject: Race Spitfire for sale-68 rouundtail type....SCCA F/P 1296 I am selling my Spit racer and 30 years of parts accumulation....It is log booked and up to date.Roller,new race motor,GT-6 trans/driveline....and more parts and spares than I can list here...Very competitive,and super easy to work on as everything was done to be that way so everything could be done at the track.I have 30 yrs of racing with a MK III,so all spares are double or triplicated for convenience of installations at track...I have been trying to list all the details and all the inventory but it is overwhelming,sooooo, if you have any interest at all in Roller,or All,please contact me and I will send you my 6 page list,etc.and or get you photos of anything you want....The car is on facebook with in-car videos from last 2 years at many races,my son Ryan,driving,including Majors and others...at Ryan Kristoff Racing .com or Facebook ,etc .......contact me at ?248 470-9523.. or rek46 at aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rek46 at aol.com Fri Aug 25 15:43:23 2017 From: rek46 at aol.com (Richard Kristoff) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 17:43:23 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Fwd: Fwd: Race Spitfire for sale-68 rouundtail type....SCCA F/P 1296 ? ? From: rek46 at aol.com To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: 8/25/2017 5:41:08 PM Eastern Standard Time Subject: Fwd: Race Spitfire for sale-68 rouundtail type....SCCA F/P 1296 ? ? From: rek46 at aol.com To: mark at bradakis.com Sent: 8/25/2017 5:40:19 PM Eastern Standard Time Subject: Race Spitfire for sale-68 rouundtail type....SCCA F/P 1296 I am selling my Spit racer and 30 years of parts accumulation....It is log booked and up to date.Roller,new race motor,GT-6 trans/driveline....and more parts and spares than I can list here...Very competitive,and super easy to work on as everything was done to be that way so everything could be done at the track.I have 30 yrs of racing with a MK III,so all spares are double or triplicated for convenience of installations at track...I have been trying to list all the details and all the inventory but it is overwhelming,sooooo, if you have any interest at all in Roller,or All,please contact me and I will send you my 6 page list,etc.and or get you photos of anything you want....The car is on facebook with in-car videos from last 2 years at many races,my son Ryan,driving,including Majors and others...at Ryan Kristoff Racing .com or Facebook ,etc .......contact me at ?248 470-9523.. or rek46 at aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rek46 at aol.com Fri Aug 25 15:56:45 2017 From: rek46 at aol.com (Richard Kristoff) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 17:56:45 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Fwd: Race Spitfire for sale-68 rouundtail type....SCCA F/P 1296 ? ? In a message dated 8/25/2017 5:41:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, rek46 at aol.com writes: ? ? ? From: rek46 at aol.com To: mark at bradakis.com Sent: 8/25/2017 5:40:19 PM Eastern Standard Time Subject: Race Spitfire for sale-68 rouundtail type....SCCA F/P 1296 I am selling my Spit racer and 30 years of parts accumulation....It is log booked and up to date.Roller,new race motor,GT-6 trans/driveline....and more parts and spares than I can list here...Very competitive,and super easy to work on as everything was done to be that way so everything could be done at the track.I have 30 yrs of racing with a MK III,so all spares are double or triplicated for convenience of installations at track...I have been trying to list all the details and all the inventory but it is overwhelming,sooooo, if you have any interest at all in Roller,or All,please contact me and I will send you my 6 page list,etc.and or get you photos of anything you want....The car is on facebook with in-car videos from last 2 years at many races,my son Ryan,driving,including Majors and others...at Ryan Kristoff Racing .com or Facebook ,etc .......contact me at ?248 470-9523.. or rek46 at aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kknight at klaenv.com Mon Aug 28 09:27:41 2017 From: kknight at klaenv.com (Kenneth Knight) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2017 08:27:41 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Dust cap for Upgraded Ft Hub/Axle A few weeks back some folks were looking for the part # for the dust cap that fits the upgraded hub/front axels for TR-3/4 cars. I keep a spare in my parts box and it is a Doorman 13973 (Ford). I was in Pepboys over the weekend and they are in stock for about $5.00. I found that if I run the pop in decorative insert for the wheel center (that cover the dust cap) at least when if the cap pops off you won't lose it on the track and it helps keep mung out of the wheel bearing. Ken -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From yellow-green at sbcglobal.net Mon Aug 28 17:29:24 2017 From: yellow-green at sbcglobal.net (Dennis DeLap) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2017 18:29:24 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Dust cap for Upgraded Ft Hub/Axle References: <000301d32012$33767de0$9a6379a0$@klaenv.com> No - dust cap for a 'stock' hub with upgraded axle. (the nut is too big for the stock cap) -----Original Message----- From: "Kenneth Knight via Fot" Sent: ?8/?28/?2017 10:55 AM To: "FOT" Subject: [Fot] Dust cap for Upgraded Ft Hub/Axle A few weeks back some folks were looking for the part # for the dust cap that fits the upgraded hub/front axels for TR-3/4 cars. I keep a spare in my parts box and it is a Doorman 13973 (Ford). I was in Pepboys over the weekend and they are in stock for about $5.00. I found that if I run the pop in decorative insert for the wheel center (that cover the dust cap) at least when if the cap pops off you won?t lose it on the track and it helps keep mung out of the wheel bearing. Ken -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dlhogye at comcast.net Tue Aug 29 11:48:49 2017 From: dlhogye at comcast.net (Dave) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 10:48:49 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Oil diapers Hello Friends, If just for shits and grins... I was just under my car checking things and I thought I'd share an easy oil catcher that I came up with a while back. I installed two longer bolts to attach safety wire between the the lowest bell housing cover bolts. I drape a disposable shop towel around the wire and guerrilla tape it to the bell housing. The underside of my car has been staying much cleaner and it's not leaving oil drips wherever I park it. Of course, it is best to not have a leak in the first place, but until I do a tear down, this has worked nicely. I also zip tied a shop towel I front of the trans mount to save the mount from oil contamination. The trans mount on my car was on it when I bought it in 2008 and before then, the car had been sitting for at least 35 years. It might be original. Cheers, Dave H. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_2429.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 583776 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_2427.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 579636 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Sent from my iPad From jhasty at mhc-law.com Tue Aug 29 14:24:12 2017 From: jhasty at mhc-law.com (John Hasty) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 20:24:12 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Oil diapers References: <3904F26E-A448-4B11-8AE3-19432EB67257@comcast.net> When we first started, John would put the TR3 on the top ramp of the rig and his street car on the bottom. Every time to and from an event he had to clean the oil off his windshield and hood. After about the third race my car no longer dripped. Funny how incentive often cures those pesky English car traits ! Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 29, 2017, at 4:04 PM, "Dave via Fot" wrote: > > Hello Friends, > If just for shits and grins... > I was just under my car checking things and I thought I'd share an easy oil catcher that I came up with a while back. > I installed two longer bolts to attach safety wire between the the lowest bell housing cover bolts. I drape a disposable shop towel around the wire and guerrilla tape it to the bell housing. > The underside of my car has been staying much cleaner and it's not leaving oil drips wherever I park it. > Of course, it is best to not have a leak in the first place, but until I do a tear down, this has worked nicely. > I also zip tied a shop towel I front of the trans mount to save the mount from oil contamination. > The trans mount on my car was on it when I bought it in 2008 and before then, the car had been sitting for at least 35 years. It might be original. > > Cheers, > Dave H. > > > [cid:813890f7-9b22-48bb-bee6-833b161e2014 at xc.lan] > > > > [cid:a1cf5580-edca-4ea3-814a-a0112766532b at xc.lan] > > > > Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhasty at mhc-law.com > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic mail transmission has been sent by a law firm on a legal matter. It may contain information that is confidential, privileged, proprietary, or otherwise legally exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate this message, any part of it, or any attachments. If you have received this message in error, please delete this message and any attachments from your system without reading the content and notify the sender immediately of the inadvertent transmission. There is no intent on the part of the sender to waive any privilege, including the attorney-client privilege, that may attach to this communication. Thank you for your cooperation. 11 U.S.C. 528(a)(4) NOTICE. We are a debt relief agency. We help people file for bankruptcy relief under the federal Bankruptcy Code. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_2429.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 583776 bytes Desc: IMG_2429.JPG URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_2427.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 579636 bytes Desc: IMG_2427.JPG URL: From gasket.works at gte.net Tue Aug 29 15:24:55 2017 From: gasket.works at gte.net (Mordy Dunst) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 17:24:55 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Oil diapers References: <3904F26E-A448-4B11-8AE3-19432EB67257@comcast.net> That is just so fricken Appalachian. Never in my wildest dreams would ever degrade my triumph to such Shame. Mordy MDunst Headgasket.com 626.358.1616 Fax 626.628.3777 Triple R Munitions, Inc 626.201.9471 T FFL 6,7 SOT 2 On Tuesday, August 29, 2017, Dave via Fot wrote: Hello Friends, If just for shits and grins... I was just under my car checking things and I thought I'd share an easy oil catcher that I came up with a while back. I installed two longer bolts to attach safety wire between the the lowest bell housing cover bolts. I drape a disposable shop towel around the wire and guerrilla tape it to the bell housing. The underside of my car has been staying much cleaner and it's not leaving oil drips wherever I park it. Of course, it is best to not have a leak in the first place, but until I do a tear down, this has worked nicely. I also zip tied a shop towel I front of the trans mount to save the mount from oil contamination. The trans mount on my car was on it when I bought it in 2008 and before then, the car had been sitting for at least 35 years. It might be original. Cheers, Dave H. Sent from my iPad_______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From britcars at bellsouth.net Wed Aug 30 04:38:45 2017 From: britcars at bellsouth.net (barry rosenberg) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 10:38:45 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fot] Oil diapers References: <3904F26E-A448-4B11-8AE3-19432EB67257@comcast.net> <15e2fe2053f-c0a-1d330@webjas-vab245.srv.aolmail.net> At Roebling Road a long time ago, we were told our TR4A dripped oil and it needed to be stopped or we could not race on Sunday. We went to a store and bought an aluminum turkey pan and some paper diapers. We flattened the pan and safety wired it under the rear of the oil pan and put an opened up diaper on top. once it was all secured against the drippy area, we raced with no problem. This was long before the newer rear crank seals were available. We eventually installed a crankcase vacuum system tied to the exhaust to create negative pressure in the engine to help stop the seeping. Barry On Tuesday, August 29, 2017 8:58 PM, Mordy Dunst via Fot wrote: That is just so fricken Appalachian.? Never in my wildest dreams would ever degrade my triumph to such Shame. Mordy MDunst Headgasket.com 626.358.1616 Fax 626.628.3777 Triple R Munitions, Inc 626.201.9471 T FFL 6,7 SOT 2 On Tuesday, August 29, 2017, Dave via Fot wrote: Hello Friends, If just for shits and grins... I was just under my car checking things and I thought I'd share an easy oil catcher that I came up with a while back. I installed two longer bolts to attach safety wire between the the lowest bell housing cover bolts. I drape a disposable shop towel around the wire and guerrilla tape it to the bell housing. The underside of my car has been staying much cleaner and it's not leaving oil drips wherever I park it. Of course, it is best to not have a leak in the first place, but until I do a tear down, this has worked nicely. I also zip tied a shop towel I front of the trans mount to save the mount from oil contamination. The trans mount on my car was on it when I bought it in 2008 and before then, the car had been sitting for at least 35 years. It might be original. Cheers, Dave H. Sent from my iPad_______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dmar823 at gmail.com Wed Aug 30 07:12:21 2017 From: dmar823 at gmail.com (Don Marshall) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 09:12:21 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Oil diapers References: <3904F26E-A448-4B11-8AE3-19432EB67257@comcast.net> <15e2fe2053f-c0a-1d330@webjas-vab245.srv.aolmail.net> <44673194.196042.1504089525119@mail.yahoo.com> Maybe its a southern thang. We did the same thing at Road Atlanta with the TR4 years ago. Grandson James' job was to get under the car after EVERY session and change the diaper under the rear seal. Don On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 6:38 AM, barry rosenberg via Fot wrote: > At Roebling Road a long time ago, we were told our TR4A dripped oil and it > needed to be stopped or we could not race on Sunday. We went to a store and > bought an aluminum turkey pan and some paper diapers. We flattened the pan > and safety wired it under the rear of the oil pan and put an opened up > diaper on top. once it was all secured against the drippy area, we raced > with no problem. This was long before the newer rear crank seals were > available. We eventually installed a crankcase vacuum system tied to the > exhaust to create negative pressure in the engine to help stop the seeping. > > Barry > > > On Tuesday, August 29, 2017 8:58 PM, Mordy Dunst via Fot < > fot at autox.team.net> wrote: > > > That is just so fricken Appalachian. Never in my wildest dreams would > ever degrade my triumph to such Shame. > > > Mordy > > MDunst Headgasket.com 626.358.1616 <(626)%20358-1616> > Fax 626.628.3777 <(626)%20628-3777> > Triple R Munitions, Inc 626.201.9471 <(626)%20201-9471> > T FFL 6,7 SOT 2 > > On Tuesday, August 29, 2017, Dave via Fot wrote: > > Hello Friends, > If just for shits and grins... > I was just under my car checking things and I thought I'd share an easy > oil catcher that I came up with a while back. > I installed two longer bolts to attach safety wire between the the lowest > bell housing cover bolts. I drape a disposable shop towel around the wire > and guerrilla tape it to the bell housing. > The underside of my car has been staying much cleaner and it's not leaving > oil drips wherever I park it. > Of course, it is best to not have a leak in the first place, but until I > do a tear down, this has worked nicely. > I also zip tied a shop towel I front of the trans mount to save the mount > from oil contamination. > The trans mount on my car was on it when I bought it in 2008 and before > then, the car had been sitting for at least 35 years. It might be original. > > Cheers, > Dave H. > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPad_______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/ > options/fot/gasket.works at gte.net > > > > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/britcars@ > bellsouth.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/ > options/fot/dmar823 at gmail.com > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billdentin at aol.com Wed Aug 30 09:00:59 2017 From: billdentin at aol.com (Bill Dentinger) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 11:00:59 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Oil diapers References: Don/Barry/Mordy/Dave (et al)... Our territorial marking habits are well known, and we must live with our reputation. When Bob Wismer and I showed up at Barber in Birmingham at one of the very first vintage events held there, the track staff met us at our assigned parking spot with two five gallon buckets of Oil Dri. They were smiling, but they were serious. "...fricken Appalachian"? No, sir! Dave's work is Yankee ingenuity. It should be celebrated! Bill Dentinger From: Don Marshall via Fot To: barry rosenberg Cc: fot Sent: Wed, Aug 30, 2017 7:38 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Oil diapers Maybe its a southern thang. We did the same thing at Road Atlanta with the TR4 years ago. Grandson James' job was to get under the car after EVERY session and change the diaper under the rear seal. Don -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Spitfire_Racing at twcny.rr.com Wed Aug 30 10:01:27 2017 From: Spitfire_Racing at twcny.rr.com (Spitfire Racing) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 12:01:27 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Oil diapers References: <3904F26E-A448-4B11-8AE3-19432EB67257@comcast.net> <15e2fe2053f-c0a-1d330@webjas-vab245.srv.aolmail.net> <44673194.196042.1504089525119@mail.yahoo.com> Oh Hell, I know a Spitfire jockey who shall remain nameless that went a step further and built a gutter to flow the leaking oil away from the exhaust pipe! If nothing else, you have to admit Triumph folks are creative and usually rise to the occasion! Whaaat? Russ From: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Don Marshall via Fot Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 9:12 AM To: barry rosenberg Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Oil diapers Maybe its a southern thang. We did the same thing at Road Atlanta with the TR4 years ago. Grandson James' job was to get under the car after EVERY session and change the diaper under the rear seal. Don On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 6:38 AM, barry rosenberg via Fot wrote: At Roebling Road a long time ago, we were told our TR4A dripped oil and it needed to be stopped or we could not race on Sunday. We went to a store and bought an aluminum turkey pan and some paper diapers. We flattened the pan and safety wired it under the rear of the oil pan and put an opened up diaper on top. once it was all secured against the drippy area, we raced with no problem. This was long before the newer rear crank seals were available. We eventually installed a crankcase vacuum system tied to the exhaust to create negative pressure in the engine to help stop the seeping. Barry On Tuesday, August 29, 2017 8:58 PM, Mordy Dunst via Fot wrote: That is just so fricken Appalachian. Never in my wildest dreams would ever degrade my triumph to such Shame. Mordy MDunst Headgasket.com 626.358.1616 Fax 626.628.3777 Triple R Munitions, Inc 626.201.9471 T FFL 6,7 SOT 2 On Tuesday, August 29, 2017, Dave via Fot wrote: Hello Friends, If just for shits and grins... I was just under my car checking things and I thought I'd share an easy oil catcher that I came up with a while back. I installed two longer bolts to attach safety wire between the the lowest bell housing cover bolts. I drape a disposable shop towel around the wire and guerrilla tape it to the bell housing. The underside of my car has been staying much cleaner and it's not leaving oil drips wherever I park it. Of course, it is best to not have a leak in the first place, but until I do a tear down, this has worked nicely. I also zip tied a shop towel I front of the trans mount to save the mount from oil contamination. The trans mount on my car was on it when I bought it in 2008 and before then, the car had been sitting for at least 35 years. It might be original. Cheers, Dave H. Sent from my iPad_______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bitishrm at comcast.net Wed Aug 30 10:30:49 2017 From: bitishrm at comcast.net (Richard North) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 09:30:49 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Oil diapers References: <15e33a8dff1-c0b-2537b@webjas-vab143.srv.aolmail.net> British cars do not leak oil they have a self lubricating chassis because of all the salt they put on the roads in England and it helps keep the Rust at bay... Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 30, 2017, at 8:00 AM, Bill Dentinger via Fot wrote: > > Don/Barry/Mordy/Dave (et al)... > > Our territorial marking habits are well known, and we must live with our reputation. > > When Bob Wismer and I showed up at Barber in Birmingham at one of the very first vintage events held there, the track staff met us at our assigned parking spot with two five gallon buckets of Oil Dri. They were smiling, but they were serious. > > "...fricken Appalachian"? No, sir! Dave's work is Yankee ingenuity. It should be celebrated! > > Bill Dentinger > > From: Don Marshall via Fot > To: barry rosenberg > Cc: fot > Sent: Wed, Aug 30, 2017 7:38 am > Subject: Re: [Fot] Oil diapers > > Maybe its a southern thang. We did the same thing at Road Atlanta with the TR4 years ago. Grandson James' job was to get under the car after EVERY session and change the diaper under the rear seal. Don > > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/bitishrm at comcast.net > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gasket.works at gte.net Wed Aug 30 10:44:38 2017 From: gasket.works at gte.net (Mordy Dunst) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 12:44:38 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Oil diapers References: <15e33a8dff1-c0b-2537b@webjas-vab143.srv.aolmail.net> This is a marketing good mine. " Pampers for leakers". Commercial grade sanitary napkin. Need to exploit this . There is a company that makes oil soaker products. "Engine Sanitary Soaker" Any ways I have some very early cars1902, 1904 etc. that don't have recirculating oil pumps. They oil Babbitt bearing by filling a gravity feed reservoir then turning a stopcock and watch the sight gauge for drop rate. When close to empty fill it again. Oil goes in and out to the ground. Continuos loss oil feed. Just have to have a large steel cookie sheet below we're it leaks. MDunst Headgasket.com 626.358.1616 Fax 626.628.3777 Triple R Munitions, Inc 626.201.9471 T FFL 6,7 SOT 2 On Wednesday, August 30, 2017, Bill Dentinger via Fot wrote: Don/Barry/Mordy/Dave (et al)... Our territorial marking habits are well known, and we must live with our reputation. When Bob Wismer and I showed up at Barber in Birmingham at one of the very first vintage events held there, the track staff met us at our assigned parking spot with two five gallon buckets of Oil Dri. They were smiling, but they were serious. "...fricken Appalachian"? No, sir! Dave's work is Yankee ingenuity. It should be celebrated! Bill Dentinger From: Don Marshall via Fot To: barry rosenberg Cc: fot Sent: Wed, Aug 30, 2017 7:38 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Oil diapers Maybe its a southern thang. We did the same thing at Road Atlanta with the TR4 years ago. Grandson James' job was to get under the car after EVERY session and change the diaper under the rear seal. Don _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From kkjjk at aol.com Wed Aug 30 11:51:56 2017 From: kkjjk at aol.com (kkjjk at aol.com) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 13:51:56 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Oil diapers These vintage Triumphs are just old, aren't they? Just like most of us who own them. We all leak a little too, right??? -----Original Message----- From: Richard North via Fot To: Bill Dentinger Cc: fot Sent: Wed, Aug 30, 2017 1:46 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Oil diapers British cars do not leak oil they have a self lubricating chassis because of all the salt they put on the roads in England and it helps keep the Rust at bay... Sent from my iPhone On Aug 30, 2017, at 8:00 AM, Bill Dentinger via Fot wrote: Don/Barry/Mordy/Dave (et al)... Our territorial marking habits are well known, and we must live with our reputation. When Bob Wismer and I showed up at Barber in Birmingham at one of the very first vintage events held there, the track staff met us at our assigned parking spot with two five gallon buckets of Oil Dri. They were smiling, but they were serious. "...fricken Appalachian"? No, sir! Dave's work is Yankee ingenuity. It should be celebrated! Bill Dentinger From: Don Marshall via Fot To: barry rosenberg Cc: fot Sent: Wed, Aug 30, 2017 7:38 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Oil diapers Maybe its a southern thang. We did the same thing at Road Atlanta with the TR4 years ago. Grandson James' job was to get under the car after EVERY session and change the diaper under the rear seal. Don _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Wed Aug 30 14:35:54 2017 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (toodamnfunky at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 20:35:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fot] Oil diapers References: <15e33a8dff1-c0b-2537b@webjas-vab143.srv.aolmail.net> <15e3407c5f5-c08-25e64@webjas-vae056.srv.aolmail.net> Or Depends....Does your baby leak as bad as you do? Depend on Depends to keep your shorts and your driveway dry. Sold in two packs for gearheads, one for you, one for your car. jg ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mordy Dunst via Fot" To: "fot" Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 10:44:38 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Oil diapers This is a marketing good mine. " Pampers for leakers". Commercial grade sanitary napkin. Need to exploit this . There is a company that makes oil soaker products. "Engine Sanitary Soaker" Any ways I have some very early cars1902, 1904 etc. that don't have recirculating oil pumps. They oil Babbitt bearing by filling a gravity feed reservoir then turning a stopcock and watch the sight gauge for drop rate. When close to empty fill it again. Oil goes in and out to the ground. Continuos loss oil feed. Just have to have a large steel cookie sheet below we're it leaks. MDunst Headgasket.com 626.358.1616 Fax 626.628.3777 Triple R Munitions, Inc 626.201.9471 T FFL 6,7 SOT 2 On Wednesday, August 30, 2017, Bill Dentinger via Fot wrote: Don/Barry/Mordy/Dave (et al)... Our territorial marking habits are well known, and we must live with our reputation. When Bob Wismer and I showed up at Barber in Birmingham at one of the very first vintage events held there, the track staff met us at our assigned parking spot with two five gallon buckets of Oil Dri. They were smiling, but they were serious. "...fricken Appalachian"? No, sir! Dave's work is Yankee ingenuity. It should be celebrated! Bill Dentinger From: Don Marshall via Fot To: barry rosenberg Cc: fot Sent: Wed, Aug 30, 2017 7:38 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Oil diapers Maybe its a southern thang. We did the same thing at Road Atlanta with the TR4 years ago. Grandson James' job was to get under the car after EVERY session and change the diaper under the rear seal. Don _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Wed Aug 30 15:31:34 2017 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 17:31:34 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Oil diapers ... not to mention just a wee bit of a fire hazard. jus sayin'... Glen -----Original Message----- From: Mordy Dunst via Fot To: fot Sent: Tue, Aug 29, 2017 9:06 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Oil diapers That is just so fricken Appalachian. Never in my wildest dreams would ever degrade my triumph to such Shame. Mordy MDunst Headgasket.com 626.358.1616 Fax 626.628.3777 Triple R Munitions, Inc 626.201.9471 T FFL 6,7 SOT 2 On Tuesday, August 29, 2017, Dave via Fot wrote: Hello Friends, If just for shits and grins... I was just under my car checking things and I thought I'd share an easy oil catcher that I came up with a while back. I installed two longer bolts to attach safety wire between the the lowest bell housing cover bolts. I drape a disposable shop towel around the wire and guerrilla tape it to the bell housing. The underside of my car has been staying much cleaner and it's not leaving oil drips wherever I park it. Of course, it is best to not have a leak in the first place, but until I do a tear down, this has worked nicely. I also zip tied a shop towel I front of the trans mount to save the mount from oil contamination. The trans mount on my car was on it when I bought it in 2008 and before then, the car had been sitting for at least 35 years. It might be original. Cheers, Dave H. Sent from my iPad_______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.tobin31 at verizon.net Wed Aug 30 16:01:37 2017 From: william.tobin31 at verizon.net (Bill Tobin) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 18:01:37 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Oil diapers References: <15e33a8dff1-c0b-2537b@webjas-vab143.srv.aolmail.net> <5E57BBAF-3885-49E6-8056-54A4EF270CCE@comcast.net> Not doing a very bloody good job on the rust prevention, is it? Went to Put-in-Bay this past Mon and Tue for the vintage races. Lots of fun. relaxed and low key. Usual Triumph suspects were there. One yellow TR4 looked very familiar; the crew weren't sure of the previous owner. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard North via Fot To: Bill Dentinger Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 12:30 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Oil diapers British cars do not leak oil they have a self lubricating chassis because of all the salt they put on the roads in England and it helps keep the Rust at bay... Sent from my iPhone On Aug 30, 2017, at 8:00 AM, Bill Dentinger via Fot wrote: Don/Barry/Mordy/Dave (et al)... Our territorial marking habits are well known, and we must live with our reputation. When Bob Wismer and I showed up at Barber in Birmingham at one of the very first vintage events held there, the track staff met us at our assigned parking spot with two five gallon buckets of Oil Dri. They were smiling, but they were serious. "...fricken Appalachian"? No, sir! Dave's work is Yankee ingenuity. It should be celebrated! Bill Dentinger From: Don Marshall via Fot To: barry rosenberg Cc: fot Sent: Wed, Aug 30, 2017 7:38 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Oil diapers Maybe its a southern thang. We did the same thing at Road Atlanta with the TR4 years ago. Grandson James' job was to get under the car after EVERY session and change the diaper under the rear seal. Don _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/bitishrm at comcast.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/william.tobin31 at verizon.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ponobill at gmail.com Wed Aug 30 17:43:56 2017 From: ponobill at gmail.com (Bill) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 16:43:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Oil diapers References: <15e350e79ab-c08-27c25@webjas-vae197.srv.aolmail.net> Sometimes you have to unleash your inner bubba if you want to race the race you just hauled a few thousand miles for. I?ve diapered Peyote to salvage a weekend, but that?s as far as I generally go. Has to be back to normal before the next outing. > On Aug 30, 2017, at 2:31 PM, fubog1 via Fot wrote: > > ... not to mention just a wee bit of a fire hazard. > jus sayin'... > Glen > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mordy Dunst via Fot > To: fot > Sent: Tue, Aug 29, 2017 9:06 pm > Subject: Re: [Fot] Oil diapers > > That is just so fricken Appalachian. Never in my wildest dreams would ever degrade my triumph to such Shame. > > > Mordy > > MDunst Headgasket.com 626.358.1616 > Fax 626.628.3777 > Triple R Munitions, Inc 626.201.9471 > T FFL 6,7 SOT 2 > > > Hello Friends, > If just for shits and grins... > I was just under my car checking things and I thought I'd share an easy oil catcher that I came up with a while back. > I installed two longer bolts to attach safety wire between the the lowest bell housing cover bolts. I drape a disposable shop towel around the wire and guerrilla tape it to the bell housing. > The underside of my car has been staying much cleaner and it's not leaving oil drips wherever I park it. > Of course, it is best to not have a leak in the first place, but until I do a tear down, this has worked nicely. > I also zip tied a shop towel I front of the trans mount to save the mount from oil contamination. > The trans mount on my car was on it when I bought it in 2008 and before then, the car had been sitting for at least 35 years. It might be original. > > Cheers, > Dave H. > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPad_______________________________________________ > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gasket.works at gte.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/fubog1 at aol.com > > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/bill at ponostyle.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhasty at mhc-law.com Wed Aug 30 17:56:06 2017 From: jhasty at mhc-law.com (John Hasty) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 23:56:06 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Oil diapers References: <15e2fe2053f-c0a-1d330@webjas-vab245.srv.aolmail.net>, <15e350e79ab-c08-27c25@webjas-vae197.srv.aolmail.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From yellow04 at tr4racer.com Thu Aug 31 03:39:08 2017 From: yellow04 at tr4racer.com (Yellow04) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2017 05:39:08 -0400 Subject: [Fot] yellow TR4? Has George Wright's old car finally resurfaced? I certainly isn't mine, my old yellow car ended up in England, got restored and is now blue. > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Tobin > Subject: Re: [Fot] Oil diapers > > Went to Put-in-Bay this past Mon and Tue for the vintage races. Lots of fun. > relaxed and low key. > Usual Triumph suspects were there. One yellow TR4 looked very familiar; the > crew weren't sure of the previous owner. From william.tobin31 at verizon.net Thu Aug 31 06:08:21 2017 From: william.tobin31 at verizon.net (Bill Tobin) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2017 08:08:21 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Oil diapers References: <15e2fe2053f-c0a-1d330@webjas-vab245.srv.aolmail.net>, <15e350e79ab-c08-27c25@webjas-vae197.srv.aolmail.net> <81A14E71-EAF0-4205-84CE-333E147B0018@mhc-law.com> Like one very smart tech guy told me, turn off your garage lights, put a trouble light under the dash, open the hood, and if you see what looks like a planetarium, start plugging the holes. Cheers, Bill P.S. Anyone going to the VRG Watkins Glen race in October? ----- Original Message ----- From: John Hasty via Fot To: fubog1 Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 7:56 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Oil diapers Fire, not good. When # 1 rod exited the block & dumped oil on the header I was engulfed in flame in an instant... Couldn't see, very "warm" Nomex works, plug all those holes, especially the hand brake... Oil + hot motor should be avoided! Sent from my iPhone On Aug 30, 2017, at 7:25 PM, "fubog1 via Fot" wrote: ... not to mention just a wee bit of a fire hazard. jus sayin'... Glen -----Original Message----- From: Mordy Dunst via Fot To: fot Sent: Tue, Aug 29, 2017 9:06 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Oil diapers That is just so fricken Appalachian. Never in my wildest dreams would ever degrade my triumph to such Shame. Mordy MDunst Headgasket.com 626.358.1616 Fax 626.628.3777 Triple R Munitions, Inc 626.201.9471 T FFL 6,7 SOT 2 On Tuesday, August 29, 2017, Dave via Fot wrote: Hello Friends, If just for shits and grins... I was just under my car checking things and I thought I'd share an easy oil catcher that I came up with a while back. I installed two longer bolts to attach safety wire between the the lowest bell housing cover bolts. I drape a disposable shop towel around the wire and guerrilla tape it to the bell housing. The underside of my car has been staying much cleaner and it's not leaving oil drips wherever I park it. Of course, it is best to not have a leak in the first place, but until I do a tear down, this has worked nicely. I also zip tied a shop towel I front of the trans mount to save the mount from oil contamination. The trans mount on my car was on it when I bought it in 2008 and before then, the car had been sitting for at least 35 years. It might be original. Cheers, Dave H. Sent from my iPad_______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gasket.works at gte.net _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/fubog1 at aol.com _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhasty at mhc-law.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic mail transmission has been sent by a law firm on a legal matter. It may contain information that is confidential, privileged, proprietary, or otherwise legally exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate this message, any part of it, or any attachments. If you have received this message in error, please delete this message and any attachments from your system without reading the content and notify the sender immediately of the inadvertent transmission. There is no intent on the part of the sender to waive any privilege, including the attorney-client privilege, that may attach to this communication. Thank you for your cooperation. 11 U.S.C. 528(a)(4) NOTICE. We are a debt relief agency. We help people file for bankruptcy relief under the federal Bankruptcy Code. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/william.tobin31 at verizon.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Thu Aug 31 06:27:18 2017 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2017 08:27:18 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Oil diapers Hell yeah, whatever it takes at the track w/o jeopardizing safety, there's a big difference between a field-expediency and a permanent fix... Glen -----Original Message----- From: Bill via Fot To: fubog1 Cc: fot Sent: Thu, Aug 31, 2017 3:33 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Oil diapers Sometimes you have to unleash your inner bubba if you want to race the race you just hauled a few thousand miles for. I?ve diapered Peyote to salvage a weekend, but that?s as far as I generally go. Has to be back to normal before the next outing. On Aug 30, 2017, at 2:31 PM, fubog1 via Fot wrote: ... not to mention just a wee bit of a fire hazard. jus sayin'... Glen -----Original Message----- From: Mordy Dunst via Fot To: fot Sent: Tue, Aug 29, 2017 9:06 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Oil diapers That is just so fricken Appalachian. Never in my wildest dreams would ever degrade my triumph to such Shame. Mordy MDunst Headgasket.com 626.358.1616 Fax 626.628.3777 Triple R Munitions, Inc 626.201.9471 T FFL 6,7 SOT 2 On Tuesday, August 29, 2017, Dave via Fot wrote: Hello Friends, If just for shits and grins... I was just under my car checking things and I thought I'd share an easy oil catcher that I came up with a while back. I installed two longer bolts to attach safety wire between the the lowest bell housing cover bolts. I drape a disposable shop towel around the wire and guerrilla tape it to the bell housing. The underside of my car has been staying much cleaner and it's not leaving oil drips wherever I park it. Of course, it is best to not have a leak in the first place, but until I do a tear down, this has worked nicely. I also zip tied a shop towel I front of the trans mount to save the mount from oil contamination. The trans mount on my car was on it when I bought it in 2008 and before then, the car had been sitting for at least 35 years. It might be original. Cheers, Dave H. Sent from my iPad_______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dlhogye at comcast.net Thu Aug 31 11:16:29 2017 From: dlhogye at comcast.net (davehogye) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2017 17:16:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fot] Oil diapers References: <15e33a8dff1-c0b-2537b@webjas-vab143.srv.aolmail.net> I appreciate the constructive criticism and concerns. I considered the fire hazard and kept the diaper relatively small. My car doesn't leak much...it might leave a few small drops when parked, but under pressure and at speed a leak is more evident, collects on the underside of the car or is left on the track. Yes, the diaper is flammable. Especially when soaked with oil. I was curious enough to test how flammable, of course after removing it. Perhaps a more catastrophic failure could lead to it's ignition, but I highly doubt it will ignite spontaneously . Until the engine is removed for an overhaul, this seems to be a reasonable, if temporary solution. Again, if just for shits and grins, I thought I'd share this idea. I was thinking more for grins. BTW, I recently completed my 12th event. The Rolex Reunion at Laguna Seca. I am very proud to say that my TR3 has completed every lap of every session of all 12 events, without any tear downs or rebuilds. Just basic service and maintenance. Knock on wood. Stay tuned for some video. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Dentinger via Fot" To: dmar823 at gmail.com, britcars at bellsouth.net Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 8:00:59 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Oil diapers Don/Barry/Mordy/Dave (et al)... Our territorial marking habits are well known, and we must live with our reputation. When Bob Wismer and I showed up at Barber in Birmingham at one of the very first vintage events held there, the track staff met us at our assigned parking spot with two five gallon buckets of Oil Dri. They were smiling, but they were serious. "...fricken Appalachian" ? No, sir! Dave's work is Yankee ingenuity. It should be celebrated! Bill Dentinger From: Don Marshall via Fot To: barry rosenberg Cc: fot Sent: Wed, Aug 30, 2017 7:38 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Oil diapers Maybe its a southern thang. We did the same thing at Road Atlanta with the TR4 years ago. Grandson James' job was to get under the car after EVERY session and change the diaper under the rear seal. Don _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chasgee22 at gmail.com Thu Aug 31 14:29:46 2017 From: chasgee22 at gmail.com (chasgee22 at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2017 16:29:46 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Oil diapers References: <15e33a8dff1-c0b-2537b@webjas-vab143.srv.aolmail.net> <373534490.74850063.1504199789914.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> Time to up the compression. Chuck > On Aug 31, 2017, at 1:16 PM, davehogye via Fot wrote: > > I appreciate the constructive criticism and concerns. > I considered the fire hazard and kept the diaper relatively small. My car doesn't leak much...it might leave a few small drops when parked, but under pressure and at speed a leak is more evident, collects on the underside of the car or is left on the track. > Yes, the diaper is flammable. Especially when soaked with oil. I was curious enough to test how flammable, of course after removing it. > Perhaps a more catastrophic failure could lead to it's ignition, but I highly doubt it will ignite spontaneously . > Until the engine is removed for an overhaul, this seems to be a reasonable, if temporary solution. > Again, if just for shits and grins, I thought I'd share this idea. I was thinking more for grins. > BTW, I recently completed my 12th event. The Rolex Reunion at Laguna Seca. I am very proud to say that my TR3 has completed every lap of every session of all 12 events, without any tear downs or rebuilds. Just basic service and maintenance. Knock on wood. > Stay tuned for some video. > Dave > > > > > > > > From: "Bill Dentinger via Fot" > To: dmar823 at gmail.com, britcars at bellsouth.net > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 8:00:59 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Oil diapers > > Don/Barry/Mordy/Dave (et al)... > > Our territorial marking habits are well known, and we must live with our reputation. > > When Bob Wismer and I showed up at Barber in Birmingham at one of the very first vintage events held there, the track staff met us at our assigned parking spot with two five gallon buckets of Oil Dri. They were smiling, but they were serious. > > "...fricken Appalachian"? No, sir! Dave's work is Yankee ingenuity. It should be celebrated! > > Bill Dentinger > > From: Don Marshall via Fot > To: barry rosenberg > Cc: fot > Sent: Wed, Aug 30, 2017 7:38 am > Subject: Re: [Fot] Oil diapers > > Maybe its a southern thang. We did the same thing at Road Atlanta with the TR4 years ago. Grandson James' job was to get under the car after EVERY session and change the diaper under the rear seal. Don > > > > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/dlhogye at comcast.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/chasgee22 at gmail.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gasket.works at verizon.net Thu Aug 31 17:03:24 2017 From: gasket.works at verizon.net (Mordy Dunst) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2017 19:03:24 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Oil diapers References: <03631D01-9452-4131-AE2C-8E3F3310E097@gmail.com> What kind of fun is there if you are not working on your motor? I on the other hand have much fun. MDunst Headgasket.com 626.358.1616 Fax 626.628.3777 Triple R Munitions, Inc 626.201.9471 T FFL 6,7 SOT 2 On Thursday, August 31, 2017, Chuck Gee via Fot wrote: Time to up the compression. Chuck On Aug 31, 2017, at 1:16 PM, davehogye via Fot wrote: I appreciate the constructive criticism and concerns. I considered the fire hazard and kept the diaper relatively small. My car doesn't leak much...it might leave a few small drops when parked, but under pressure and at speed a leak is more evident, collects on the underside of the car or is left on the track. Yes, the diaper is flammable. Especially when soaked with oil. I was curious enough to test how flammable, of course after removing it. Perhaps a more catastrophic failure could lead to it's ignition, but I highly doubt it will ignite spontaneously . Until the engine is removed for an overhaul, this seems to be a reasonable, if temporary solution. Again, if just for shits and grins, I thought I'd share this idea. I was thinking more for grins. BTW, I recently completed my 12th event. The Rolex Reunion at Laguna Seca. I am very proud to say that my TR3 has completed every lap of every session of all 12 events, without any tear downs or rebuilds. Just basic service and maintenance. Knock on wood. Stay tuned for some video. Dave From: "Bill Dentinger via Fot" To: dmar823 at gmail.com, britcars at bellsouth.net Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 8:00:59 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Oil diapers Don/Barry/Mordy/Dave (et al)... Our territorial marking habits are well known, and we must live with our reputation. When Bob Wismer and I showed up at Barber in Birmingham at one of the very first vintage events held there, the track staff met us at our assigned parking spot with two five gallon buckets of Oil Dri. They were smiling, but they were serious. "...fricken Appalachian"? No, sir! Dave's work is Yankee ingenuity. It should be celebrated! Bill Dentinger From: Don Marshall via Fot To: barry rosenberg Cc: fot Sent: Wed, Aug 30, 2017 7:38 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Oil diapers Maybe its a southern thang. We did the same thing at Road Atlanta with the TR4 years ago. Grandson James' job was to get under the car after EVERY session and change the diaper under the rear seal. Don _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From weredinger at cox.net Thu Aug 31 21:42:36 2017 From: weredinger at cox.net (Bill Redinger) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2017 23:42:36 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Oil diapers References: <15e33a8dff1-c0b-2537b@webjas-vab143.srv.aolmail.net> <3tiR1w01b0NyJgq01tiSoq> A rebuild well done. A record to be very proud of. I would not kick you out of my garage for leaking oil, with or without the diaper! Best, Bill > On Aug 31, 2017, at 1:16 PM, davehogye via Fot wrote: > > I appreciate the constructive criticism and concerns. > I considered the fire hazard and kept the diaper relatively small. My car doesn't leak much...it might leave a few small drops when parked, but under pressure and at speed a leak is more evident, collects on the underside of the car or is left on the track. > Yes, the diaper is flammable. Especially when soaked with oil. I was curious enough to test how flammable, of course after removing it. > Perhaps a more catastrophic failure could lead to it's ignition, but I highly doubt it will ignite spontaneously . > Until the engine is removed for an overhaul, this seems to be a reasonable, if temporary solution. > Again, if just for shits and grins, I thought I'd share this idea. I was thinking more for grins. > BTW, I recently completed my 12th event. The Rolex Reunion at Laguna Seca. I am very proud to say that my TR3 has completed every lap of every session of all 12 events, without any tear downs or rebuilds. Just basic service and maintenance. Knock on wood. > Stay tuned for some video. > Dave > > > > > > > > From: "Bill Dentinger via Fot" > To: dmar823 at gmail.com, britcars at bellsouth.net > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 8:00:59 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Oil diapers > > Don/Barry/Mordy/Dave (et al)... > > Our territorial marking habits are well known, and we must live with our reputation. > > When Bob Wismer and I showed up at Barber in Birmingham at one of the very first vintage events held there, the track staff met us at our assigned parking spot with two five gallon buckets of Oil Dri. They were smiling, but they were serious. > > "...fricken Appalachian"? No, sir! Dave's work is Yankee ingenuity. It should be celebrated! > > Bill Dentinger > > From: Don Marshall via Fot > To: barry rosenberg > Cc: fot > Sent: Wed, Aug 30, 2017 7:38 am > Subject: Re: [Fot] Oil diapers > > Maybe its a southern thang. We did the same thing at Road Atlanta with the TR4 years ago. Grandson James' job was to get under the car after EVERY session and change the diaper under the rear seal. Don > > > > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/dlhogye at comcast.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/weredinger at cox.net > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: