Subject: Re: [Fot] Ignition System Preferences?

From: MadMarx <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 01:19:06 +0200

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I'm using Pertronix 1 since 2005 and never failed.

123 had some troubles with heat and failed from that.

Which was not my experience but I saw it several times on other cars.

Cheers

Chris

Von: Fot [mailto:[email-masked]] Im Auftrag von Joe Guinan
Gesendet: Freitag, 8. Juli 2016 04:58
An: [email-masked]
Betreff: [Fot] Ignition System Preferences?

Back in 2005 or so we had a long discussion of distributor problems; broken
mechanical advance tabs, junk condensers, and expensive replacement parts on
the Mallory Dual Point units, worn out parts on Lucas units that therefore
became ammunition in catapult battles, short life spans and improper phasing
for the Pertronix Ignitors, misfires on the MSD units from low battery
charging, etc. I think the "123 Ignition" was just being introduced around
that time.

So a decade or so later, what have we learned? What's working well, and what
have you given up on? I'm needing to decide which way to go on my Spitfire.
I have a couple Mallory DP's lying about and several different Lucas units I
could send off for refurbishing. I've looked at the Pertronix with their rev
limiter box, and it seems intriguing. I've not heard much about the
Pertronix or the 123 systems in racing use.  Knowing what you now know -
what would you recommend and what would you steer clear of?

The Spitfire will have an 1147 this season, and a 1296 is to be built this
next winter. Both will run Kastner A6 cam grinds that I just got back from
Ted at TSI. I'd look at 7000 rpm as a limit for now. I'm almost completely
inexperienced in regards to working on ignition systems, so I'd like
something with a shorter learning curve and a good reputation for
reliability.

Joe Guinan

Fremont, Nebraska

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vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I&#8217;m using =
Pertronix 1 since 2005 and never failed.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>123 had some troubles with heat and =
failed from that.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Which was not my =
experience but I saw it several times on other =
cars.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Cheers<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Chris<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></a></p><spa=
n style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose'></span><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>Von:</b> Fot =
[mailto:[email-masked]] <b>Im Auftrag von </b>Joe =
Guinan<br><b>Gesendet:</b> Freitag, 8. Juli 2016 04:58<br><b>An:</b> =
[email-masked]<br><b>Betreff:</b> [Fot] Ignition System =
Preferences?<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Back in 2005 or so we had a long discussion of distributor =
problems; broken mechanical advance tabs, junk condensers, and expensive =
replacement parts on the Mallory Dual Point units, worn out parts on =
Lucas units that therefore became ammunition in catapult battles, short =
life spans and improper phasing for the Pertronix Ignitors, misfires on =
the MSD units from low battery charging, etc. I think the &#8220;123 =
Ignition&#8221; was just being introduced around that =
time.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>So a decade or so later, what have we learned? What&#8217;s =
working well, and what have you given up on? I&#8217;m needing to decide =
which way to go on my Spitfire. I have a couple Mallory DP&#8217;s lying =
about and several different Lucas units I could send off for =
refurbishing. I&#8217;ve looked at the Pertronix with their rev limiter =
box, and it seems intriguing. I&#8217;ve not heard much about the =
Pertronix or the 123 systems in racing use.&nbsp; Knowing what you now =
know &#8211; what would you recommend and what would you steer clear =
of?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>The Spitfire will have an 1147 this season, and a 1296 is =
to be built this next winter. Both will run Kastner A6 cam grinds that I =
just got back from Ted at TSI. I&#8217;d look at 7000 rpm as a limit for =
now. I&#8217;m almost completely inexperienced in regards to working on =
ignition systems, so I&#8217;d like something with a shorter learning =
curve and a good reputation for reliability.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Joe Guinan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Fremont, =
Nebraska<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></body></html>
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_______________________________________________
[email-masked]

http://www.fot-racing.com

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

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---

From: "Jim Gray" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 19:28:17 -0600

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I've been using the 1-2-3 for six years and not a problem. It's the first
gen model where you change the programs with a screw pointer, not the USB
conx. type.

Jim g

From: Fot [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Joe Guinan
Sent: Thursday, July 7, 2016 8:58 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [Fot] Ignition System Preferences?

Joe Guinan

Fremont, Nebraska

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>I&#8217;ve =
been using the 1-2-3 for six years and not a problem. It&#8217;s the =
first gen model where you change the programs with a screw pointer, not =
the USB conx. type.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Jim =
g<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Fot =
[mailto:[email-masked]] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Joe =
Guinan<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 7, 2016 8:58 PM<br><b>To:</b> =
[email-masked]<br><b>Subject:</b> [Fot] Ignition System =
Preferences?<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Back in 2005 =
or so we had a long discussion of distributor problems; broken =
mechanical advance tabs, junk condensers, and expensive replacement =
parts on the Mallory Dual Point units, worn out parts on Lucas units =
that therefore became ammunition in catapult battles, short life spans =
and improper phasing for the Pertronix Ignitors, misfires on the MSD =
units from low battery charging, etc. I think the &#8220;123 =
Ignition&#8221; was just being introduced around that =
time.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>So a decade or so later, what have we learned? =
What&#8217;s working well, and what have you given up on? I&#8217;m =
needing to decide which way to go on my Spitfire. I have a couple =
Mallory DP&#8217;s lying about and several different Lucas units I could =
send off for refurbishing. I&#8217;ve looked at the Pertronix with their =
rev limiter box, and it seems intriguing. I&#8217;ve not heard much =
about the Pertronix or the 123 systems in racing use.&nbsp; Knowing what =
you now know &#8211; what would you recommend and what would you steer =
clear of?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>The Spitfire will have an 1147 this season, and a 1296 =
is to be built this next winter. Both will run Kastner A6 cam grinds =
that I just got back from Ted at TSI. I&#8217;d look at 7000 rpm as a =
limit for now. I&#8217;m almost completely inexperienced in regards to =
working on ignition systems, so I&#8217;d like something with a shorter =
learning curve and a good reputation for reliability.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Joe =
Guinan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Fremont, =
Nebraska<o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>
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From: Tony Drews <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 01:14:21 -0500

For my TR-4, I'm pretty sure I used Jeff at Advanced Distributors
http://advanceddistributors.mybisi.com/products/distributors

After discussion with him, he built a Lucas 
distributor package that used points and a Bosch 
blue coil.  He's very specific about the parts 
used, and while the spark isn't as accurate as 
the crankfire setup I replaced, I'm extremely 
happy with it.  Got a spare points plate so it's 
a quick swap if I have an issue.  Runs to 7k rpm 
just fine (although I generally shift sooner than that).

Regards, Tony Drews

At 09:57 PM 7/7/2016, Joe Guinan wrote:
>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>         boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0077_01D1D89A.984F1DA0"
>Content-Language: en-us
>
>Back in 2005 or so we had a long discussion of 
>distributor problems; broken mechanical advance 
>tabs, junk condensers, and expensive replacement 
>parts on the Mallory Dual Point units, worn out 
>parts on Lucas units that therefore became 
>ammunition in catapult battles, short life spans 
>and improper phasing for the Pertronix Ignitors, 
>misfires on the MSD units from low battery 
>charging, etc. I think the “123 Ignition” was 
>just being introduced around that time.
>
>So a decade or so later, what have we learned? 
>What’s working well, and what have you given up 
>on? I’m needing to decide which way to go on my 
>Spitfire. I have a couple Mallory DP’s lying 
>about and several different Lucas units I could 
>send off for refurbishing. I’ve looked at the 
>Pertronix with their rev limiter box, and it 
>seems intriguing. I’ve not heard much about the 
>Pertronix or the 123 systems in racing 
>use.  Knowing what you now know – what would you 
>recommend and what would you steer clear of?
>
>The Spitfire will have an 1147 this season, and 
>a 1296 is to be built this next winter. Both 
>will run Kastner A6 cam grinds that I just got 
>back from Ted at TSI. I’d look at 7000 rpm as a 
>limit for now. I’m almost completely 
>inexperienced in regards to working on ignition 
>systems, so I’d like something with a shorter 
>learning curve and a good reputation for reliability.
>
>Joe Guinan
>Fremont, Nebraska
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>Unsubscribe/Manage: 
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]

eam.net

---

From: Dean Tetterton <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2016 07:35:50 -0400

I am with Tony on this. Changed to a Jeff built points distributor several years ago
and have had no more electrical gremelins. Was using a Lucus coil and that quit
at the Jefferson this year. Now run a Bosch Blue. Have had no issues and still
carry a spare plate set up with points. Check the gap before each week end
and forget about it. In all the years of street driving my TR3A never had a point
problem strand me anywhere. 

Dean T. 

On Jul 10, 2016, at 2:14 AM, Tony Drews wrote:

> After discussion with him, he built a Lucas distributor package that used points and a Bosch blue coil.  He's very specific about the parts used, and while the spark isn't as accurate as the crankfire setup I replaced, I'm extremely happy with it.  Got a spare points plate so it's a quick swap if I have an issue.  Runs to 7k rpm just fine (although I generally shift sooner than that).
> 
> Regards, Tony Drews
>

---

From: Duncan Charlton <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2016 08:00:25 -0500

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For my Ford 1500-powered Morgan I will use an Advanced Distributors =
rebuild and continue to use points (points bounce is a non-issue with =
CDI because it will trigger on the first opening of the points but =
ignore subsequent openings when they bounce.), but will use a slightly =
modified CD ignition made by VJ, probably manufactured in the mid-1970s =
(V.J. Products Model 25B J-15 CDI).  These are about $40 on eBay, plus =
shipping.  A guy in the Morgan community has tested Pertronix triggering =
modules and has also tested various CDI=E2=80=99s including Bosch, MSD, =
Tiger, Delta Mark 10, Speedatron, Permatune, and VJ among others and =
found surprising weaknesses in some of the big name units.  The =
inexpensive VJ CDI tested better than any of the others besides the =
original Hyland ignition unit, on which his father held the patents.  He =
found that Pertronix is better than points for getting an engine to fire =
at low cranking rpm but spark energy is significantly less than points =
at high rpm due to a voltage loss, whereas using points with a CDI can =
produce 5 or 6 times the energy of the coil even at low battery voltage. =
 MSD=E2=80=99s CDI does not do well when voltage drops much below 12 =
volts, which could be an issue for total-loss electrical systems.  When =
he tested an older MSD unit he found that the advertised voltage, energy =
storage, duration, etc. did not stack up with his test results.  He =
found the spark energy weak, presumably a negative effect from putting =
emphasis on multiple sparks.

He=E2=80=99s reluctant for me to quote him extensively but there is a =
little bit more info on his website (including him hawking his own CDI =
design): http://www.capacitordischargeignition.com =
<http://www.capacitordischargeignition.com/> .  Anyone wanting details =
of his testing of other brands can contact him (his email address is on =
his website).=20

Duncan Charlton
Elgin, Texas USA

> On Jul 10, 2016, at 1:14 AM, Tony Drews <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
>=20
> After discussion with him, he built a Lucas distributor package that =
used points and a Bosch blue coil.  He's very specific about the parts =
used, and while the spark isn't as accurate as the crankfire setup I =
replaced, I'm extremely happy with it.  Got a spare points plate so it's =
a quick swap if I have an issue.  Runs to 7k rpm just fine (although I =
generally shift sooner than that).
>=20
>=20
>>        boundary=3D"----=3D_NextPart_000_0077_01D1D89A.984F1DA0"
>> Content-Language: en-us
>>=20
>> Back in 2005 or so we had a long discussion of distributor problems; =
broken mechanical advance tabs, junk condensers, and expensive =
replacement parts on the Mallory Dual Point units, worn out parts on =
Lucas units that therefore became ammunition in catapult battles, short =
life spans and improper phasing for the Pertronix Ignitors, misfires on =
the MSD units from low battery charging, etc. I think the =C2=93123 =
Ignition=C2=94 was just being introduced around that time.
>>=20
>> So a decade or so later, what have we learned? What=C2=92s working =
well, and what have you given up on? I=C2=92m needing to decide which =
way to go on my Spitfire. I have a couple Mallory DP=C2=92s lying about =
and several different Lucas units I could send off for refurbishing. =
I=C2=92ve looked at the Pertronix with their rev limiter box, and it =
seems intriguing. I=C2=92ve not heard much about the Pertronix or the =
123 systems in racing use.  Knowing what you now know =C2=96 what would =
you recommend and what would you steer clear of?
>>=20
>> The Spitfire will have an 1147 this season, and a 1296 is to be built =
this next winter. Both will run Kastner A6 cam grinds that I just got =
back from Ted at TSI. I=C2=92d look at 7000 rpm as a limit for now. I=C2=92=
m almost completely inexperienced in regards to working on ignition =
systems, so I=C2=92d like something with a shorter learning curve and a =
good reputation for reliability.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>=20
>=20

--Apple-Mail=_27E56721-2B3B-42EE-9F7F-88CE29EDED18
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">For my Ford 1500-powered Morgan I will use an Advanced =
Distributors rebuild and continue to use points (points bounce is a =
non-issue with CDI because it will trigger on the first opening of the =
points but ignore subsequent openings when they bounce.), but will use a =
slightly modified CD ignition made by VJ, probably manufactured in the =
mid-1970s (<span style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); background-color: =
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=3D"">V.J. Products Model 25B J-15 =
CDI</span>). &nbsp;These are about $40 on eBay, plus shipping. &nbsp;A =
guy in the Morgan community has tested Pertronix triggering modules and =
has also tested various CDI=E2=80=99s including Bosch, MSD, Tiger, Delta =
Mark 10, Speedatron, Permatune, and VJ among others and found surprising =
weaknesses in some of the big name units. &nbsp;The inexpensive VJ CDI =
tested better than any of the others besides the original Hyland =
ignition unit, on which his father held the patents. &nbsp;He found that =
Pertronix is better than points for getting an engine to fire at low =
cranking rpm but spark energy is significantly less than points at high =
rpm due to a voltage loss, whereas using points with a CDI can produce 5 =
or 6 times the energy of the coil even at low battery voltage. =
&nbsp;MSD=E2=80=99s CDI does not do well when voltage drops much below =
12 volts, which could be an issue for total-loss electrical systems. =
&nbsp;When he tested an older MSD unit he found that the advertised =
voltage, energy storage, duration, etc. did not stack up with his test =
results. &nbsp;He found the spark energy weak, presumably a negative =
effect from putting emphasis on multiple sparks.<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">He=E2=80=99s reluctant for me to quote =
him extensively but there is a little bit more info on his website =
(including him hawking his own CDI design):&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"http://www.capacitordischargeignition.com/" =
class=3D"">http://www.capacitordischargeignition.com</a>&nbsp;. =
&nbsp;Anyone wanting details of his testing of other brands can contact =
him (his email address is on his website).&nbsp;<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">Duncan Charlton</div><div =
class=3D"">Elgin, Texas USA</div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">

</div>
<br class=3D""><div style=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Jul 10, 2016, at 1:14 AM, Tony Drews &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">For my TR-4, I'm pretty sure I used Jeff at Advanced =
Distributors<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"http://advanceddistributors.mybisi.com/products/distributors" =
class=3D"">http://advanceddistributors.mybisi.com/products/distributors</a=
><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">After discussion with him, he built a =
Lucas distributor package that used points and a Bosch blue coil. =
&nbsp;He's very specific about the parts used, and while the spark isn't =
as accurate as the crankfire setup I replaced, I'm extremely happy with =
it. &nbsp;Got a spare points plate so it's a quick swap if I have an =
issue. &nbsp;Runs to 7k rpm just fine (although I generally shift sooner =
than that).<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Regards, Tony Drews<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">At 09:57 PM 7/7/2016, Joe Guinan wrote:<br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">Content-Type: =
multipart/alternative;<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;boundary=3D"----=3D_NextPart_000=
_0077_01D1D89A.984F1DA0"<br class=3D"">Content-Language: en-us<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Back in 2005 or so we had a long discussion of =
distributor problems; broken mechanical advance tabs, junk condensers, =
and expensive replacement parts on the Mallory Dual Point units, worn =
out parts on Lucas units that therefore became ammunition in catapult =
battles, short life spans and improper phasing for the Pertronix =
Ignitors, misfires on the MSD units from low battery charging, etc. I =
think the =C2=93123 Ignition=C2=94 was just being introduced around that =
time.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">So a decade or so later, what have we =
learned? What=C2=92s working well, and what have you given up on? I=C2=92m=
 needing to decide which way to go on my Spitfire. I have a couple =
Mallory DP=C2=92s lying about and several different Lucas units I could =
send off for refurbishing. I=C2=92ve looked at the Pertronix with their =
rev limiter box, and it seems intriguing. I=C2=92ve not heard much about =
the Pertronix or the 123 systems in racing use. &nbsp;Knowing what you =
now know =C2=96 what would you recommend and what would you steer clear =
of?<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">The Spitfire will have an 1147 this =
season, and a 1296 is to be built this next winter. Both will run =
Kastner A6 cam grinds that I just got back from Ted at TSI. I=C2=92d =
look at 7000 rpm as a limit for now. I=C2=92m almost completely =
inexperienced in regards to working on ignition systems, so I=C2=92d =
like something with a shorter learning curve and a good reputation for =
reliability.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Joe Guinan<br =
class=3D"">Fremont, Nebraska<br =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">[email-masked]<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">http://www.fot-racing.com<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Donate: =
http://www.team.net/forums<br class=3D"">Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]<br =
class=3D""></blockquote><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">[email-masked]<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">http://www.fot-racing.com<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Donate: =
http://www.team.net/forums<br class=3D"">Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></body></html>=

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---

From: "Chuck Arnold and/or Kathleen Kelley" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2016 07:37:47 -0700

--===============5834296254189745814==

--001a1141003e972c4d05375d18a8
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I use Pertronix dizzy and ignitor II. No problems, but it requires matching
coil. Burns out stock ones.
On Jul 10, 2016 11:41 PM, "Tony Drews" <[email-masked]> wrote:

> After discussion with him, he built a Lucas distributor package that used
> points and a Bosch blue coil.  He's very specific about the parts used, a=
nd
> while the spark isn't as accurate as the crankfire setup I replaced, I'm
> extremely happy with it.  Got a spare points plate so it's a quick swap i=
f
> I have an issue.  Runs to 7k rpm just fine (although I generally shift
> sooner than that).
>
> Regards, Tony Drews
>
>> Back in 2005 or so we had a long discussion of distributor problems;
>> broken mechanical advance tabs, junk condensers, and expensive replaceme=
nt
>> parts on the Mallory Dual Point units, worn out parts on Lucas units tha=
t
>> therefore became ammunition in catapult battles, short life spans and
>> improper phasing for the Pertronix Ignitors, misfires on the MSD units f=
rom
>> low battery charging, etc. I think the =E2=80=9C123 Ignition=E2=80=9D wa=
s just being
>> introduced around that time.
>>
>> So a decade or so later, what have we learned? What=E2=80=99s working we=
ll, and
>> what have you given up on? I=E2=80=99m needing to decide which way to go=
 on my
>> Spitfire. I have a couple Mallory DP=E2=80=99s lying about and several d=
ifferent
>> Lucas units I could send off for refurbishing. I=E2=80=99ve looked at th=
e Pertronix
>> with their rev limiter box, and it seems intriguing. I=E2=80=99ve not he=
ard much
>> about the Pertronix or the 123 systems in racing use.  Knowing what you =
now
>> know =E2=80=93 what would you recommend and what would you steer clear o=
f?
>>
>> The Spitfire will have an 1147 this season, and a 1296 is to be built
>> this next winter. Both will run Kastner A6 cam grinds that I just got ba=
ck
>> from Ted at TSI. I=E2=80=99d look at 7000 rpm as a limit for now. I=E2=
=80=99m almost
>> completely inexperienced in regards to working on ignition systems, so I=
=E2=80=99d
>> like something with a shorter learning curve and a good reputation for
>> reliability.
>>
>> Joe Guinan
>> Fremont, Nebraska
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>
>
>

--001a1141003e972c4d05375d18a8
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<p dir=3D"ltr">I use Pertronix dizzy and ignitor II. No problems, but it re=
quires matching coil. Burns out stock ones.</p>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Jul 10, 2016 11:41 PM, &quot;Tony Drews&quot;=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote=
:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">For my TR-4, I&#39=
;m pretty sure I used Jeff at Advanced Distributors<br>
<a href=3D"http://advanceddistributors.mybisi.com/products/distributors" re=
l=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://advanceddistributors.mybisi.com/p=
roducts/distributors</a><br>
<br>
After discussion with him, he built a Lucas distributor package that used p=
oints and a Bosch blue coil.=C2=A0 He&#39;s very specific about the parts u=
sed, and while the spark isn&#39;t as accurate as the crankfire setup I rep=
laced, I&#39;m extremely happy with it.=C2=A0 Got a spare points plate so i=
t&#39;s a quick swap if I have an issue.=C2=A0 Runs to 7k rpm just fine (al=
though I generally shift sooner than that).<br>
<br>
Regards, Tony Drews<br>
<br>
At 09:57 PM 7/7/2016, Joe Guinan wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 boundary=3D&quot;----=3D_NextPart_000_0077_01D1=
D89A.984F1DA0&quot;<br>
Content-Language: en-us<br>
<br>
Back in 2005 or so we had a long discussion of distributor problems; broken=
 mechanical advance tabs, junk condensers, and expensive replacement parts =
on the Mallory Dual Point units, worn out parts on Lucas units that therefo=
re became ammunition in catapult battles, short life spans and improper pha=
sing for the Pertronix Ignitors, misfires on the MSD units from low battery=
 charging, etc. I think the =E2=80=9C123 Ignition=E2=80=9D was just being i=
ntroduced around that time.<br>
<br>
So a decade or so later, what have we learned? What=E2=80=99s working well,=
 and what have you given up on? I=E2=80=99m needing to decide which way to =
go on my Spitfire. I have a couple Mallory DP=E2=80=99s lying about and sev=
eral different Lucas units I could send off for refurbishing. I=E2=80=99ve =
looked at the Pertronix with their rev limiter box, and it seems intriguing=
. I=E2=80=99ve not heard much about the Pertronix or the 123 systems in rac=
ing use.=C2=A0 Knowing what you now know =E2=80=93 what would you recommend=
 and what would you steer clear of?<br>
<br>
The Spitfire will have an 1147 this season, and a 1296 is to be built this =
next winter. Both will run Kastner A6 cam grinds that I just got back from =
Ted at TSI. I=E2=80=99d look at 7000 rpm as a limit for now. I=E2=80=99m al=
most completely inexperienced in regards to working on ignition systems, so=
 I=E2=80=99d like something with a shorter learning curve and a good reputa=
tion for reliability.<br>
<br>
Joe Guinan<br>
Fremont, Nebraska<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]<=
/a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">=
http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br>
<br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D=
"_blank">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>
[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.ne=
t/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]<=
/a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">=
http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br>
<br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D=
"_blank">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>
[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net=
/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>

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From: davehogye <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2016 04:43:53 +0000 (UTC)

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Excellent testimonials. 
I've been wanting to send another dist. to Jeff for a points setup as a backup to the Pertronix he built for me. Or, put the points unit in and use the Pertronix as a backup. Great idea of having a points plate setup and ready to go. 
I am also using the Bosch blue coil. Recommended by Jeff. 

Dave H. 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Dean Tetterton" <[email-masked]> 
To: "Tony Drews" <[email-masked]> 
Cc: [email-masked], "Joe Guinan" <[email-masked]> 
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2016 4:35:50 AM 
Subject: Re: [Fot] Ignition System Preferences? 

Dean T. 

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><body><div style=3D"font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #0000=
00"><div aria-label=3D"Compose body">Excellent testimonials.</div><div aria=
-label=3D"Compose body">I've been wanting to send another dist. to Jeff for=
 a points setup as a backup to the Pertronix he built for me. &nbsp;Or, put=
 the points unit in and use the Pertronix as a backup. &nbsp;Great idea of =
having a points plate setup and ready to go.</div><div aria-label=3D"Compos=
e body">I am also using the Bosch blue coil. &nbsp;Recommended by Jeff.</di=
v><div aria-label=3D"Compose body"><br></div><div aria-label=3D"Compose bod=
y">Dave H.</div><div><br></div><hr id=3D"zwchr"><div style=3D"color:#000;fo=
nt-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:Helveti=
ca,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;" data-mce-style=3D"color: #000; font-we=
ight: normal; font-style: normal; text-decoration: none; font-family: Helve=
tica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><b>From: </b>"Dean Tetterton" &lt;=
[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>To: </b>"Tony Drews" &lt;[email-masked]&gt=
;<br><b>Cc: </b>[email-masked], "Joe Guinan" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br=
><b>Sent: </b>Monday, July 11, 2016 4:35:50 AM<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Fot]=
 Ignition System Preferences?<br><div><br></div>I am with Tony on this. Cha=
nged to a Jeff built points distributor several years ago<br>and have had n=
o more electrical gremelins. Was using a Lucus coil and that quit<br>at the=
 Jefferson this year. Now run a Bosch Blue. Have had no issues and still<br=
>carry a spare plate set up with points. Check the gap before each week end=
<br>and forget about it. In all the years of street driving my TR3A never h=
ad a point<br>problem strand me anywhere. <br><div><br></div>Dean T. <br><d=
iv><br></div><br>On Jul 10, 2016, at 2:14 AM, Tony Drews wrote:<br><div><br=
></div>&gt; For my TR-4, I'm pretty sure I used Jeff at Advanced Distributo=
rs<br>&gt; http://advanceddistributors.mybisi.com/products/distributors<br>=
&gt; <br>&gt; After discussion with him, he built a Lucas distributor packa=
ge that used points and a Bosch blue coil. &nbsp;He's very specific about t=
he parts used, and while the spark isn't as accurate as the crankfire setup=
 I replaced, I'm extremely happy with it. &nbsp;Got a spare points plate so=
 it's a quick swap if I have an issue. &nbsp;Runs to 7k rpm just fine (alth=
ough I generally shift sooner than that).<br>&gt; <br>&gt; Regards, Tony Dr=
ews<br>&gt; <br><div><br></div>____________________________________________=
___<br>[email-masked]<br><div><br></div>http://www.fot-racing.com<br><d=
iv><br></div>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html<br>Archive: http://www=
.team.net/archive<br>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums<br>Unsubscribe/Mana=
ge: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]<br><div><=
br></div><br></div><div><br></div></div></body></html>
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From: Tony Drews <[email-masked]> et>
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2016 01:07:00 -0500

--===============1744073336594049604==

<html>
<body>
Be sure to buy the coil from Jeff as there are apparently several
versions of the &quot;Bosch blue coil&quot; and he's figured out the good
ones.<br><br>
Regards, Tony<br><br>
At 11:43 PM 7/11/2016, davehogye wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">Excellent testimonials.<br>
I've been wanting to send another dist. to Jeff for a points setup as a
backup to the Pertronix he built for me.&nbsp; Or, put the points unit in
and use the Pertronix as a backup.&nbsp; Great idea of having a points
plate setup and ready to go.<br>
I am also using the Bosch blue coil.&nbsp; Recommended by Jeff.<br><br>
Dave H.<br><br>
<hr>
<b>From: </b>&quot;Dean Tetterton&quot; &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
<b>To: </b>&quot;Tony Drews&quot; &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>[email-masked], &quot;Joe Guinan&quot;
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
<b>Sent: </b>Monday, July 11, 2016 4:35:50 AM<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Fot] Ignition System Preferences?<br><br>
I am with Tony on this. Changed to a Jeff built points distributor
several years ago<br>
and have had no more electrical gremelins. Was using a Lucus coil and
that quit<br>
at the Jefferson this year. Now run a Bosch Blue. Have had no issues and
still<br>
carry a spare plate set up with points. Check the gap before each week
end<br>
and forget about it. In all the years of street driving my TR3A never had
a point<br>
problem strand me anywhere. <br><br>
Dean T. <br><br>
<br>
On Jul 10, 2016, at 2:14 AM, Tony Drews wrote:<br><br>
&gt; For my TR-4, I'm pretty sure I used Jeff at Advanced
Distributors<br>
&gt;
<a href="http://advanceddistributors.mybisi.com/products/distributors" eudora="autourl">
http://advanceddistributors.mybisi.com/products/distributors</a><br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; After discussion with him, he built a Lucas distributor package that
used points and a Bosch blue coil.&nbsp; He's very specific about the
parts used, and while the spark isn't as accurate as the crankfire setup
I replaced, I'm extremely happy with it.&nbsp; Got a spare points plate
so it's a quick swap if I have an issue.&nbsp; Runs to 7k rpm just fine
(although I generally shift sooner than that).<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Regards, Tony Drews<br>
&gt; <br><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
[email-masked]<br><br>
<a href="http://www.fot-racing.com/" eudora="autourl">
http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br><br>
Donate:
<a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html" eudora="autourl">
Archive:
<a href="http://www.team.net/archive" eudora="autourl">
Forums:
<a href="http://www.team.net/forums" eudora="autourl">
http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>
<a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]" eudora="autourl">
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a><br><br>
<br>
</blockquote></body>
<br>
</html>

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From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2016 08:10:16 -0400

>  When he tested an older MSD unit he found that the
> advertised voltage, energy storage, duration, etc. did not stack up with
> his test results.  He found the spark energy weak, presumably a negative
> effect from putting emphasis on multiple sparks.

With respect, Duncan, I think there must have been something wrong with the
unit he tested.

When I first tried a MSD 6A on my street TR3A back in the 80s; it would
erode the center electrode of the spark plugs until the electrode ended
inside the ceramic, and keep on running just fine.  Since mixture, timing,
etc were unchanged, it had to be higher spark current causing the erosion
and obviously much higher voltage to keep firing the plug.  I switched to
much colder plugs to reduce the erosion.

It also burned out all the carbon in the resistor in the distributor cap.
Once the resistor was non-conductive, it kept throwing a spark around the
resistor, eroding the tower in the cap.  I was still driving to work every
day, there was no change in how easily the engine started or how well it
ran.

When it did finally start misfiring, I saw a fat blue spark, climbing up the
coil tower and running over to a side terminal!  That was when I discovered
the damage inside the cap. 

Tried to limp home that way (obviously switching back to points wasn't going
to work), but the coil tower couldn't take the heat and within just a few
miles the spark was going directly through the tower to the side terminal
and the engine wouldn't run at all.  I was able to get it running again,
with the ruined cap & coil, by wrapping a paper clip around the resistor and
bending the tip to touch the rotor.
 
However, every MSD unit I've owned has failed within a few years of
installation, always in some strange way.  One of them would simply stop
working for a minute or two, always during initial warmup on a cold day,
then work fine for the rest of the day.  For some reason, always at idle
(usually in rush hour traffic waiting for the light to turn green).  One of
them would work fine until underhood temps got over about 150F then abruptly
stop working.  Open the hood to troubleshoot, and it would be working again.

And one of them became weak, hard to start and obvious low spark energy.

-- Randall