Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 Piston / Head Clearance

From: Robert Lang <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2016 15:48:13 +0000 (UTC)

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Hi,
Thanks for all the feedback. It appears that my noise is piston slap possib=
ly due to the bores being oversize. I pulled the head and there are slight =
witness marks on the pistons in the squish area as well as on the spark plu=
g side... looks like I need to get the block re-bored and go to larger pist=
ons.
I measured piston rock at TDC and all the holes have about .010 rock from t=
he squish side to the spark plug side. It is possible that there's some tap=
er in the bore, it looks like the holes were just honed and not bored out.

Seeing that the machine work was done 10 years ago, I can only blame myself=
 for this cock-up!
Now, where's my plasticard... the racing budget getting closer to zero for =
2016!

Regards,Bob Lang339-927-4489

    On Friday, May 27, 2016 5:47 PM, Steve Yott <[email-masked]> wrote:
=20

 Bill,Thank you very much for stating so well what I know but just dont kno=
w how to say!!! =C2=A0Heck, even I understood what you said perfectly....
In a nutshell use a good crank grinder and do lots of measurements!

Steve Yott

-------- Original message --------
From: Bill Babcock <[email-masked]>=20
Date: 05/27/2016 4:26 PM (GMT-06:00)=20
To: [email-masked]=20
Cc: Steve Yott <[email-masked]>,Fot <[email-masked]>=20
Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 Piston / Head Clearance=20
=20

Indexing in this case means aligning the crankshaft in the grinding machine=
 so that as the crank is rotated, the journal center is the center of rotat=
ion. In a four cylinder triump crank journals two and three, and journals o=
ne and four are in the same plane. So the grinder aligns the machine so 1 a=
nd 4 are concentric, grinds those two, then indexes 2 and 3, and grinds tho=
se. In a six there are three sets of concentric pairs. Any indexing error m=
eans the two journals ground with error may reach TDC at a different degree=
 of crank rotation (offset horizontally to the main journal plane), or at a=
 different height above the center of crank rotation (offset verticallly), =
or both.=C2=A0

On May 27, 2016, at 10:13 AM, [email-masked] wrote:
I'm a bit confused, Steve (not unusual these days). When you say "indexing"=
, I think of rotational position; which would affect timing, but not piston=
/head clearance.=C2=A0
Are you saying that the length of the throws (radial position) can be off a=
s well?--=C2=A0 RandallOn 27 May 2016 10:45 a.m., Steve Yott <[email-masked]=
> wrote:

Since most of you like to play the =E2=80=9Cdeath with pistons=E2=80=9D gam=
e keep in mind one additional factor as you are building your engines.=C2=
=A0 Over the years I have found crankshafts which were reground and the thr=
ows were not very precisely indexed.=C2=A0 When a crank is setup on the gri=
nding machine for grinding rod journals it is set and reset by the number o=
f =E2=80=9Cthrows=E2=80=9D=E2=80=A6 on a 4 cylinder engine the grinder has =
to be indexed twice and on the 6 cylinder, 3 times.=C2=A0 If the grinder, e=
ither the person or the machine is not perfectly accurate you will see vari=
ations of TDC for the throws!=C2=A0 I have seen these deviations be as much=
 as .006=E2=80=9D when a good grinder will hold dimensions within .001=E2=
=80=9D.=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0So, if you are running close squishes=E2=80=A6. M=
easure TDC on #1 and #2 on the four cylinder and #1, #2 and #3 on the 6 mot=
ors=E2=80=A6.. this way to can make sure your throws and TDC=E2=80=99s are =
spot on. =C2=A0Steve Yott =C2=A0 =C2=A0From:=C2=A0John Styduhar [mailto:joh=
[email-masked]]=C2=A0
Sent:=C2=A0Thursday, May 26, 2016 4:32 PM
To:=C2=[email-masked]
Cc:=C2=A0Charly Mitchel; Steve Yott; Jim Gray; Triumph 'Friends of Triumph
Subject:=C2=A0Re: [Fot] TR6 Piston / Head Clearance =C2=A0My forged pistons=
 are .006" in the hole at TDC and I use a .030" thick solid copper head gas=
ket and stock crank at 6200 rpm. When removing the head, the piston tops ar=
e clean in the squish area and it looks like a slight indentation at the le=
dge of the combustion chamber, probably from piston rock when the engine is=
 cold. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 3:23 PM,=C2=A0Gregmogdoc=
@surfnetusa.com=C2=A0<[email-masked]> wrote:IN our experience wi=
th TR-4, and English Ford Kent
racing engines the safe clearance between the head
and the piston crown is .035".=C2=A0 A TR-4 with billet
rods will just "touch" the head at 6800 rpm with
.026" clearance. It will "hit" the head hard enough
to make an imprint in the piston crown at .029"
I would say that the TR-6 crank probably flexes more
than a TR-4 does at high rpm. You would like to have
a little safety margin, I would think. I would not
run less than .035", maybe even a couple more if the
engine is going to run over 6,000 rpm.

Greg Solow
The Engine Room
Sports Car Specialists
Santa Cruz, CA 95060
831 429-1800

------- Original Message -------
From=C2=A0 =C2=A0 : Charly[mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent=C2=A0 =C2=A0 : 5/25/2016 6:52:35 PM
To=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 :=C2=[email-masked];=C2=[email-masked]
Cc=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 :=C2=[email-masked]
Subject : RE: Re: [Fot] TR6 Piston / Head Clearance

=C2=A0I tried b u idling a TR6 motor with a pop-up on the
piston on c e. Instead of having the pistons cut
down to zero clearance I left them about .005" high.
It eventually bent the rod and broken it. The
pistons had an imprint of the combustion chamber on
them. I learned that at 6000 rpm's, there is
enough deflection in the crank to let them hit the head.
I believe most head gaskets are .0035" aren't they?
Charly Mitchel
TR6 #44

On Wed 25/05/16 11:31 AM ,=C2=[email-masked]=C2=A0sent:
> The rattling is likely piston slap on cold forged
pistons. Did it go
> away when it warmed up and came back on the next
cold start ?jim
>
> -------------------------
> FROM: "Steve Yott"
> TO: "Robert Lang" , "FOT List"
> SENT: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 11:27:27 AM
> SUBJECT: Re: [Fot] TR6 Piston / Head Clearance
> I doubt that your .030 squish would cause the
rattling as you
> describe.=C2=A0 The deflection caused by the crank, rod
and piston in order
> to hit the head at .030 would be way up in the
rpm=E2=80=99s like 8000!
> Did the rattling go away after all the parts warmed
up and oil was
> well disbursed or is it still rattling?=C2=A0 My first
guess would be
> either the engine was not pre-oiled or you have
loose piston pin
> bushings=E2=80=A6.=C2=A0 Were the rods rebuilt with new bushings
fitted to about
> .0003?
> Steve Yott
> FROM: Fot [ mailto:[email-masked]=C2=A0] ON
BEHALF OF Robert
> Lang
> SENT: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 11:29 AM
> TO: FOT List
> SUBJECT: Re: [Fot] TR6 Piston / Head Clearance
> Hi,
> Where I was going with the query was this: I had a
late block
> "decked" with the intent of making the deck flat.
The machinist took
> of .032 to accomplish the goal. With a head gasket
installed and the
> head torqued, the clearance in the squish area is .030.
>
> I had initially wanted only about .025 removed, but
we had to shave
> an extra .007 to get rid of the fire ring cuts.
>
> On initial startup, the motor sounded like it might
be "rattling" and
> I'm trying to figure out why.
>
> When I used a stethescope on the block, everything
sounds okay - no
> rapping and the valve train sounds "normal" and
there were no weird
> sounds coming from the crank.
>
> I guess where I'm going with this is: if piston /
head clearance is
> too tight, I'll see some sort of indication on the
piston, right?
>
> TIA for any sage advice.
>
> This is my first experience "decking" a block. I'd
like to get it
> right, I don't have the resources to start a new
block from scratch.
>
> Regards,
>
> Bob Lang
> _______________________________________________
>=C2=[email-masked]
>
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>
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>
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------=_Part_3687219_1215491509.1464882493335
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; f=
ont-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, =
sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1464882050693_2888"=
><span>Hi,</span></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1464882050693_2894"><br=
><span></span></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1464882050693_3207"><span =
id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1464882050693_3206">Thanks for all the feedback. It=
 appears that my noise is piston slap possibly due to the bores being overs=
ize. I pulled the head and there are slight witness marks on the pistons in=
 the squish area as well as on the spark plug side... looks like I need to =
get the block re-bored and go to larger pistons.</span></div><div id=3D"yui=
_3_16_0_ym19_1_1464882050693_3768"><br><span id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_146488=
2050693_3206"></span></div><div dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1464882=
050693_3769"><span id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1464882050693_3206">I measured p=
iston rock at TDC and all the holes have about .010 rock from the squish si=
de to the spark plug side. It is possible that there's some taper in the bo=
re, it looks like the holes were just honed and not bored out.<br></span></=
div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1464882050693_3344"><br></div><div id=3D"y=
ui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1464882050693_3415">Seeing that the machine work was done =
10 years ago, I can only blame myself for this cock-up!</div><div id=3D"yui=
_3_16_0_ym19_1_1464882050693_3603"><br></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1=
464882050693_3616">Now, where's my plasticard... the racing budget getting =
closer to zero for 2016!<br></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_146488205069=
3_3617"><br></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1464882050693_3618">Regards,=
</div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1464882050693_4126">Bob Lang</div><div i=
d=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1464882050693_4125">339-927-4489<br></div><div class=
=3D"qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div style=3D"display: block;" class=3D"ya=
hoo_quoted"> <div style=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helv=
etica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div style=3D"f=
ont-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande,=
 sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Arial" size=
=3D"2"> On Friday, May 27, 2016 5:47 PM, Steve Yott &lt;[email-masked]&gt; w=
rote:<br></font></div>  <br><br> <div class=3D"y_msg_container"><div id=3D"=
yiv7694931676"><div><div>Bill,</div><div>Thank you very much for stating so=
 well what I know but just dont know how to say!!! &nbsp;Heck, even I under=
stood what you said perfectly....</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>I=
n a nutshell use a good crank grinder and do lots of measurements!</div><di=
v><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><div style=3D=
"font-size:100%;">Steve Yott</div></div><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"non=
e"><br clear=3D"none">-------- Original message --------<br clear=3D"none">=
From: Bill Babcock &lt;[email-masked]&gt; <br clear=3D"none">Date: 05/2=
7/2016  4:26 PM  (GMT-06:00) <br clear=3D"none">To: [email-masked] <br=
 clear=3D"none">Cc: Steve Yott &lt;[email-masked]&gt;,Fot &lt;[email-masked]=
.net&gt; <br clear=3D"none">Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 Piston / Head Clearance =
<br clear=3D"none"> <br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Indexing in this =
case means aligning the crankshaft in the grinding machine so that as the c=
rank is rotated, the journal center is the center of rotation. In a four cy=
linder triump crank journals two and three, and journals one and four are i=
n the same plane. So the grinder aligns the machine so 1 and 4 are concentr=
ic, grinds those two, then indexes 2 and 3, and grinds those. In a six ther=
e are three sets of concentric pairs. Any indexing error means the two jour=
nals ground with error may reach TDC at a different degree of crank rotatio=
n (offset horizontally to the main journal plane), or at a different height=
 above the center of crank rotation (offset verticallly), or both.&nbsp;<br=
 class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none"><div class=3D"yiv7694931676"><block=
quote class=3D"yiv7694931676" type=3D"cite"><div class=3D"yiv7694931676">On=
 May 27, 2016, at 10:13 AM, <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" class=3D"yiv=
7694931676" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> wrote:</div><br cla=
ss=3D"yiv7694931676Apple-interchange-newline" clear=3D"none"><div class=3D"=
yiv7694931676"><div class=3D"yiv7694931676" dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-famil=
y:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spac=
ing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spac=
ing:0px;">I'm a bit confused, Steve (not unusual these days). When you say =
"indexing", I think of rotational position; which would affect timing, but =
not piston/head clearance.<span class=3D"yiv7694931676Apple-converted-space=
">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">Are you saying th=
at the length of the throws (radial position) can be off as well?</div><div=
 class=3D"yiv7694931676" dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-si=
ze:18px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-ind=
ent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;">--&nbsp; =
Randall</div><div class=3D"yiv7694931676yqt9635802588" id=3D"yiv7694931676y=
qt97882"><div class=3D"yiv7694931676quote" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;f=
ont-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;te=
xt-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;">On =
27 May 2016 10:45 a.m., Steve Yott &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" c=
lass=3D"yiv7694931676" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" h=
ref=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" style=3D"color:purple;text-decoration:underlin=
e;">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">=
<blockquote class=3D"yiv7694931676quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;=
border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204, 204, 204);border-left-styl=
e:solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div class=3D"yiv7694931676Section1" style=3D"">=
<div class=3D"yiv7694931676" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12p=
t;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class=3D"yiv7694931676" styl=
e=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);=
">Since most of you like to play the =E2=80=9Cdeath with pistons=E2=80=9D g=
ame keep in mind one additional factor as you are building your engines.&nb=
sp; Over the years I have found crankshafts which were reground and the thr=
ows were not very precisely indexed.&nbsp; When a crank is setup on the gri=
nding machine for grinding rod journals it is set and reset by the number o=
f =E2=80=9Cthrows=E2=80=9D=E2=80=A6 on a 4 cylinder engine the grinder has =
to be indexed twice and on the 6 cylinder, 3 times.&nbsp; If the grinder, e=
ither the person or the machine is not perfectly accurate you will see vari=
ations of TDC for the throws!&nbsp; I have seen these deviations be as much=
 as .006=E2=80=9D when a good grinder will hold dimensions within .001=E2=
=80=9D.&nbsp;<span class=3D"yiv7694931676Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</spa=
n></span></div><div class=3D"yiv7694931676" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001p=
t;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class=3D"yiv7=
694931676" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rg=
b(31, 73, 125);"> &nbsp;</span></div><div class=3D"yiv7694931676" style=3D"=
margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif=
;"><span class=3D"yiv7694931676" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibr=
i, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);">So, if you are running close squishe=
s=E2=80=A6. Measure TDC on #1 and #2 on the four cylinder and #1, #2 and #3=
 on the 6 motors=E2=80=A6.. this way to can make sure your throws and TDC=
=E2=80=99s are spot on.</span></div><div class=3D"yiv7694931676" style=3D"m=
argin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;=
"><span class=3D"yiv7694931676" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri=
, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);"> &nbsp;</span></div><div class=3D"yiv=
7694931676" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Ti=
mes New Roman', serif;"><span class=3D"yiv7694931676" style=3D"font-size:11=
pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);">Steve Yott</spa=
n></div><div class=3D"yiv7694931676" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-=
size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class=3D"yiv76949316=
76" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 7=
3, 125);"> &nbsp;</span></div><div class=3D"yiv7694931676" style=3D"margin:=
0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><spa=
n class=3D"yiv7694931676" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans=
-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);"> &nbsp;</span></div><div class=3D"yiv769493=
1676" style=3D"border-style:solid none none;border-top-color:rgb(181, 196, =
223);border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt 0in 0in;"><div class=3D"yiv7694931676=
" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Ro=
man', serif;"><b class=3D"yiv7694931676"><span class=3D"yiv7694931676" styl=
e=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span =
class=3D"yiv7694931676" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma, sans-se=
rif;"><span class=3D"yiv7694931676Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>John =
Styduhar [<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" class=3D"yiv7694931676" ymailt=
o=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:johnstydo=
@gmail.com" style=3D"color:purple;text-decoration:underline;">mailto:johnst=
[email-masked]</a>]<span class=3D"yiv7694931676Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;=
</span><br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none"><b class=3D"yiv7694931676=
">Sent:</b><span class=3D"yiv7694931676Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>=
Thursday, May 26, 2016 4:32 PM<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none"><b=
 class=3D"yiv7694931676">To:</b><span class=3D"yiv7694931676Apple-converted=
-space">&nbsp;</span><a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" class=3D"yiv7694931=
676" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D=
"mailto:[email-masked]" style=3D"color:purple;text-decoration:un=
derline;">[email-masked]</a><br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D=
"none"><b class=3D"yiv7694931676">Cc:</b><span class=3D"yiv7694931676Apple-=
converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Charly Mitchel; Steve Yott; Jim Gray; Triumph=
 'Friends of Triumph<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none"><b class=3D"=
yiv7694931676">Subject:</b><span class=3D"yiv7694931676Apple-converted-spac=
e">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Fot] TR6 Piston / Head Clearance</span></div></div><di=
v class=3D"yiv7694931676" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;f=
ont-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"> &nbsp;</div><div class=3D"yiv7694931=
676"><div class=3D"yiv7694931676"><div class=3D"yiv7694931676" style=3D"mar=
gin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">=
My forged pistons are .006" in the hole at TDC and I use a .030" thick soli=
d copper head gasket and stock crank at 6200 rpm. When removing the head, t=
he piston tops are clean in the squish area and it looks like a slight inde=
ntation at the ledge of the combustion chamber, probably from piston rock w=
hen the engine is cold. &nbsp; &nbsp;</div></div></div><div class=3D"yiv769=
4931676"><div class=3D"yiv7694931676" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font=
-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"> &nbsp;</div><div class=
=3D"yiv7694931676"><div class=3D"yiv7694931676" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0=
001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">On Thu, May 26,=
 2016 at 3:23 PM,<span class=3D"yiv7694931676Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;<=
/span><a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" class=3D"yiv7694931676" ymailto=3D=
"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:Gregmog=
[email-masked]" style=3D"color:purple;text-decoration:underline;">Gregm=
[email-masked]</a><span class=3D"yiv7694931676Apple-converted-space">=
&nbsp;</span>&lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" class=3D"yiv7694931676"=
 ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mai=
lto:[email-masked]" style=3D"color:purple;text-decoration:underl=
ine;">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><div class=3D"yiv769493=
1676MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Tim=
es New Roman', serif;">IN our experience with TR-4, and English Ford Kent<b=
r class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">racing engines the safe clearance =
between the head<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">and the piston c=
rown is .035".&nbsp; A TR-4 with billet<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D=
"none">rods will just "touch" the head at 6800 rpm with<br class=3D"yiv7694=
931676" clear=3D"none">.026" clearance. It will "hit" the head hard enough<=
br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">to make an imprint in the piston =
crown at .029"<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">I would say that t=
he TR-6 crank probably flexes more<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none=
">than a TR-4 does at high rpm. You would like to have<br class=3D"yiv76949=
31676" clear=3D"none">a little safety margin, I would think. I would not<br=
 class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">run less than .035", maybe even a c=
ouple more if the<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">engine is going=
 to run over 6,000 rpm.<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none"><br class=
=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none"><br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none=
">Greg Solow<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">The Engine Room<br c=
lass=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">Sports Car Specialists<br class=3D"yi=
v7694931676" clear=3D"none">Santa Cruz, CA 95060<br class=3D"yiv7694931676"=
 clear=3D"none">831 429-1800<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none"><br =
class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none"><br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D=
"none"><br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">------- Original Message =
-------<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">From&nbsp; &nbsp; : Charl=
y[mailto:<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" class=3D"yiv7694931676" ymailto=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:cha=
[email-masked]" style=3D"color:purple;text-decoration:underline;">=
[email-masked]</a>]<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">S=
ent&nbsp; &nbsp; : 5/25/2016 6:52:35 PM<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D=
"none">To&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; :<span class=3D"yiv7694931676Apple-converted-=
space">&nbsp;</span><a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" class=3D"yiv76949316=
76" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:tr4@w=
i.rr.com" style=3D"color:purple;text-decoration:underline;">[email-masked]</=
a>;<span class=3D"yiv7694931676Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a rel=
=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" class=3D"yiv7694931676" ymailto=3D"mailto:tood=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:toodamnfunky@comcast=
.net" style=3D"color:purple;text-decoration:underline;">toodamnfunky@comcas=
t.net</a><br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">Cc&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
:<span class=3D"yiv7694931676Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a rel=3D"=
nofollow" shape=3D"rect" class=3D"yiv7694931676" ymailto=3D"mailto:fot@auto=
x.team.net" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" style=3D"c=
olor:purple;text-decoration:underline;">[email-masked]</a><br class=3D"=
yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">Subject : RE: Re: [Fot] TR6 Piston / Head Cle=
arance<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none"><br class=3D"yiv7694931676=
" clear=3D"none">&nbsp;I tried b u idling a TR6 motor with a pop-up on the<=
br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">piston on c e. Instead of having =
the pistons cut<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">down to zero clea=
rance I left them about .005" high.<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"non=
e">It eventually bent the rod and broken it. The<br class=3D"yiv7694931676"=
 clear=3D"none">pistons had an imprint of the combustion chamber on<br clas=
s=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">them. I learned that at 6000 rpm's, ther=
e is<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">enough deflection in the cra=
nk to let them hit the head.<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">I be=
lieve most head gaskets are .0035" aren't they?<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" =
clear=3D"none">Charly Mitchel<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">TR6=
 #44<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none"><br class=3D"yiv7694931676" =
clear=3D"none">On Wed 25/05/16 11:31 AM ,<span class=3D"yiv7694931676Apple-=
converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" class=3D"y=
iv7694931676" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank"=
 href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" style=3D"color:purple;text-decora=
tion:underline;">[email-masked]</a><span class=3D"yiv7694931676Ap=
ple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>sent:<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D=
"none">&gt; The rattling is likely piston slap on cold forged<br class=3D"y=
iv7694931676" clear=3D"none">pistons. Did it go<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" =
clear=3D"none">&gt; away when it warmed up and came back on the next<br cla=
ss=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">cold start ?jim<br class=3D"yiv76949316=
76" clear=3D"none">&gt;<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">&gt; ----=
---------------------<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">&gt; FROM: =
"Steve Yott"<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">&gt; TO: "Robert Lan=
g" , "FOT List"<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">&gt; SENT: Wednes=
day, May 25, 2016 11:27:27 AM<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">&gt=
; SUBJECT: Re: [Fot] TR6 Piston / Head Clearance<br class=3D"yiv7694931676"=
 clear=3D"none">&gt; I doubt that your .030 squish would cause the<br class=
=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">rattling as you<br class=3D"yiv7694931676=
" clear=3D"none">&gt; describe.&nbsp; The deflection caused by the crank, r=
od<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">and piston in order<br class=
=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">&gt; to hit the head at .030 would be way=
 up in the<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">rpm=E2=80=99s like 800=
0!<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">&gt; Did the rattling go away =
after all the parts warmed<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">up and=
 oil was<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">&gt; well disbursed or i=
s it still rattling?&nbsp; My first<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"non=
e">guess would be<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">&gt; either the=
 engine was not pre-oiled or you have<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"n=
one">loose piston pin<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">&gt; bushin=
gs=E2=80=A6.&nbsp; Were the rods rebuilt with new bushings<br class=3D"yiv7=
694931676" clear=3D"none">fitted to about<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=
=3D"none">&gt; .0003?<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">&gt; Steve =
Yott<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">&gt; FROM: Fot [ mailto:<a r=
el=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" class=3D"yiv7694931676" ymailto=3D"mailto:fo=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:fot-bounces@auto=
x.team.net" style=3D"color:purple;text-decoration:underline;">fot-bounces@a=
utox.team.net</a><span class=3D"yiv7694931676Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;<=
/span>] ON<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">BEHALF OF Robert<br cl=
ass=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">&gt; Lang<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" c=
lear=3D"none">&gt; SENT: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 11:29 AM<br class=3D"yiv76=
94931676" clear=3D"none">&gt; TO: FOT List<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=
=3D"none">&gt; SUBJECT: Re: [Fot] TR6 Piston / Head Clearance<br class=3D"y=
iv7694931676" clear=3D"none">&gt; Hi,<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"n=
one">&gt; Where I was going with the query was this: I had a<br class=3D"yi=
v7694931676" clear=3D"none">late block<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"=
none">&gt; "decked" with the intent of making the deck flat.<br class=3D"yi=
v7694931676" clear=3D"none">The machinist took<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" c=
lear=3D"none">&gt; of .032 to accomplish the goal. With a head gasket<br cl=
ass=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">installed and the<br class=3D"yiv76949=
31676" clear=3D"none">&gt; head torqued, the clearance in the squish area i=
s .030.<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">&gt;<br class=3D"yiv76949=
31676" clear=3D"none">&gt; I had initially wanted only about .025 removed, =
but<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">we had to shave<br class=3D"y=
iv7694931676" clear=3D"none">&gt; an extra .007 to get rid of the fire ring=
 cuts.<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">&gt;<br class=3D"yiv769493=
1676" clear=3D"none">&gt; On initial startup, the motor sounded like it mig=
ht<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">be "rattling" and<br class=3D"=
yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">&gt; I'm trying to figure out why.<br class=
=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">&gt;<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"=
none">&gt; When I used a stethescope on the block, everything<br class=3D"y=
iv7694931676" clear=3D"none">sounds okay - no<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" cl=
ear=3D"none">&gt; rapping and the valve train sounds "normal" and<br class=
=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">there were no weird<br class=3D"yiv769493=
1676" clear=3D"none">&gt; sounds coming from the crank.<br class=3D"yiv7694=
931676" clear=3D"none">&gt;<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">&gt; =
I guess where I'm going with this is: if piston /<br class=3D"yiv7694931676=
" clear=3D"none">head clearance is<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none=
">&gt; too tight, I'll see some sort of indication on the<br class=3D"yiv76=
94931676" clear=3D"none">piston, right?<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D=
"none">&gt;<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">&gt; TIA for any sage=
 advice.<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">&gt;<br class=3D"yiv7694=
931676" clear=3D"none">&gt; This is my first experience "decking" a block. =
I'd<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">like to get it<br class=3D"yi=
v7694931676" clear=3D"none">&gt; right, I don't have the resources to start=
 a new<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">block from scratch.<br cla=
ss=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">&gt;<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=
=3D"none">&gt; Regards,<br class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">&gt;<br c=
lass=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">&gt; Bob Lang<br class=3D"yiv76949316=
76" clear=3D"none">&gt; _______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"yiv7694931676" clear=3D"none">&gt;<span class=3D"yiv7694931676Appl=
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_______________________________________________
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