Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 Piston / Head Clearance

From: Robert Lang <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 16:28:51 +0000 (UTC)

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Hi,
Where I was going with the query was this: I had a late block "decked" with the intent of making the deck flat. The machinist took of .032 to accomplish the goal. With a head gasket installed and the head torqued, the clearance in the squish area is .030.I had initially wanted only about .025 removed, but we had to shave an extra .007 to get rid of the fire ring cuts.On initial startup, the motor sounded like it might be "rattling" and I'm trying to figure out why.When I used a stethescope on the block, everything sounds okay - no rapping and the valve train sounds "normal" and there were no weird sounds coming from the crank.I guess where I'm going with this is: if piston / head clearance is too tight, I'll see some sort of indication on the piston, right?TIA for any sage advice.This is my first experience "decking" a block. I'd like to get it right, I don't have the resources to start a new block from scratch.Regards,Bob Lang

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<html><head></head><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; f=
ont-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, =
sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div>Hi,</div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_14641=
92999183_4039"><br></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1464192999183_4040" d=
ir=3D"ltr">Where I was going with the query was this: I had a late block "d=
ecked" with the intent of making the deck flat. The machinist took of .032 =
to accomplish the goal. With a head gasket installed and the head torqued, =
the clearance in the squish area is .030.</div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1=
_1464192999183_4041" dir=3D"ltr">I had initially wanted only about .025 rem=
oved, but we had to shave an extra .007 to get rid of the fire ring cuts.</=
div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1464192999183_4042" dir=3D"ltr">On initial=
 startup, the motor sounded like it might be "rattling" and I'm trying to f=
igure out why.</div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1464192999183_4043" dir=3D=
"ltr">When I used a stethescope on the block, everything sounds okay - no r=
apping and the valve train sounds "normal" and there were no weird sounds c=
oming from the crank.</div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1464192999183_4055"=
 dir=3D"ltr">I guess where I'm going with this is: if piston / head clearan=
ce is too tight, I'll see some sort of indication on the piston, right?</di=
v><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1464192999183_4056" dir=3D"ltr">TIA for any =
sage advice.</div><div dir=3D"ltr">This is my first experience "decking" a =
block. I'd like to get it right, I don't have the resources to start a new =
block from scratch.</div><div dir=3D"ltr">Regards,</div><div dir=3D"ltr">Bo=
b Lang<br></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1464192999183_3788"><br></div>=
</div></body></html>
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_______________________________________________
[email-masked]

http://www.fot-racing.com

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

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From: "Steve Yott" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 12:27:27 -0500

This is a multipart message in MIME format.

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I doubt that your .030 squish would cause the rattling as you describe.  =
The deflection caused by the crank, rod and piston in order to hit the =
head at .030 would be way up in the rpm=E2=80=99s like 8000!

=20

Did the rattling go away after all the parts warmed up and oil was well =
disbursed or is it still rattling?  My first guess would be either the =
engine was not pre-oiled or you have loose piston pin bushings=E2=80=A6. =
 Were the rods rebuilt with new bushings fitted to about .0003? =20

=20

Steve Yott

=20

From: Fot [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Robert Lang
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 11:29 AM
To: FOT List
Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 Piston / Head Clearance

=20

Hi,

=20

Where I was going with the query was this: I had a late block "decked" =
with the intent of making the deck flat. The machinist took of .032 to =
accomplish the goal. With a head gasket installed and the head torqued, =
the clearance in the squish area is .030.

I had initially wanted only about .025 removed, but we had to shave an =
extra .007 to get rid of the fire ring cuts.

On initial startup, the motor sounded like it might be "rattling" and =
I'm trying to figure out why.

When I used a stethescope on the block, everything sounds okay - no =
rapping and the valve train sounds "normal" and there were no weird =
sounds coming from the crank.

I guess where I'm going with this is: if piston / head clearance is too =
tight, I'll see some sort of indication on the piston, right?

TIA for any sage advice.

This is my first experience "decking" a block. I'd like to get it right, =
I don't have the resources to start a new block from scratch.

Regards,

Bob Lang

=20

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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I doubt that your .030 squish would cause the rattling as =
you
describe.=C2=A0 The deflection caused by the crank, rod and piston in =
order to hit
the head at .030 would be way up in the rpm=E2=80=99s like =
8000!<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Did the rattling go away after all the parts warmed up =
and oil
was well disbursed or is it still rattling?=C2=A0 My first guess would =
be either the
engine was not pre-oiled or you have loose piston pin =
bushings=E2=80=A6.=C2=A0 Were the rods
rebuilt with new bushings fitted to about .0003?=C2=A0 =
<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Steve Yott<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0in 0in 0in'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Fot
[mailto:[email-masked]] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Lang<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 25, 2016 11:29 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> FOT List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] TR6 Piston / Head =
Clearance<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1464192999183_4039">

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1464192999183_4040">

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>Where I was going with the query was this: I had a late =
block
&quot;decked&quot; with the intent of making the deck flat. The =
machinist took
of .032 to accomplish the goal. With a head gasket installed and the =
head
torqued, the clearance in the squish area is .030.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1464192999183_4041">

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>I had initially wanted only about .025 removed, but we had =
to
shave an extra .007 to get rid of the fire ring =
cuts.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1464192999183_4042">

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>On initial startup, the motor sounded like it might be
&quot;rattling&quot; and I'm trying to figure out =
why.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1464192999183_4043">

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>When I used a stethescope on the block, everything sounds =
okay -
no rapping and the valve train sounds &quot;normal&quot; and there were =
no
weird sounds coming from the crank.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1464192999183_4055">

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>I guess where I'm going with this is: if piston / head =
clearance
is too tight, I'll see some sort of indication on the piston, =
right?<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1464192999183_4056">

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>TIA for any sage advice.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>This is my first experience &quot;decking&quot; a block. =
I'd like
to get it right, I don't have the resources to start a new block from =
scratch.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>Bob Lang<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1464192999183_3788">

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

</div>

</div>

</div>

</body>

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 18:31:13 +0000 (UTC)

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	boundary="----=_Part_6830596_790663912.1464201073790"

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The rattling is likely piston slap on cold forged pistons. Did it go away w=
hen it warmed up and came back on the next cold start ?=20
jim=20

----- Original Message -----

From: "Steve Yott" <[email-masked]>=20
To: "Robert Lang" <[email-masked]>, "FOT List" <[email-masked]=
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 11:27:27 AM=20
Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 Piston / Head Clearance=20

I doubt that your .030 squish would cause the rattling as you describe. The=
 deflection caused by the crank, rod and piston in order to hit the head at=
 .030 would be way up in the rpm=E2=80=99s like 8000!=20

Did the rattling go away after all the parts warmed up and oil was well dis=
bursed or is it still rattling? My first guess would be either the engine w=
as not pre-oiled or you have loose piston pin bushings=E2=80=A6. Were the r=
ods rebuilt with new bushings fitted to about .0003?=20

Steve Yott=20

From: Fot [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Robert Lang=20
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 11:29 AM=20
To: FOT List=20
Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 Piston / Head Clearance=20

Hi,=20

Where I was going with the query was this: I had a late block "decked" with=
 the intent of making the deck flat. The machinist took of .032 to accompli=
sh the goal. With a head gasket installed and the head torqued, the clearan=
ce in the squish area is .030.=20

I had initially wanted only about .025 removed, but we had to shave an extr=
a .007 to get rid of the fire ring cuts.=20

On initial startup, the motor sounded like it might be "rattling" and I'm t=
rying to figure out why.=20

When I used a stethescope on the block, everything sounds okay - no rapping=
 and the valve train sounds "normal" and there were no weird sounds coming =
from the crank.=20

I guess where I'm going with this is: if piston / head clearance is too tig=
ht, I'll see some sort of indication on the piston, right?=20

TIA for any sage advice.=20

This is my first experience "decking" a block. I'd like to get it right, I =
don't have the resources to start a new block from scratch.=20

Regards,=20

Bob Lang=20

_______________________________________________=20
[email-masked]=20

http://www.fot-racing.com=20

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive=20
comcast.net=20

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<html><body><div style=3D"font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #0000=
00"><div aria-label=3D"Compose body">The rattling is likely piston slap on =
cold forged pistons. Did it go away when it warmed up and came back on the =
next cold start ?</div><div aria-label=3D"Compose body">jim</div><div><br><=
/div><hr id=3D"zwchr"><div style=3D"color:#000;font-weight:normal;font-styl=
e:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-s=
ize:12pt;" data-mce-style=3D"color: #000; font-weight: normal; font-style: =
normal; text-decoration: none; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; fon=
t-size: 12pt;"><b>From: </b>"Steve Yott" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>To: </=
b>"Robert Lang" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;, "FOT List" &lt;[email-masked]=
eam.net&gt;<br><b>Sent: </b>Wednesday, May 25, 2016 11:27:27 AM<br><b>Subje=
ct: </b>Re: [Fot] TR6 Piston / Head Clearance<br><div><br></div><style>
<!--
=20
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div.Section1
=09{page:Section1;}
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</style><div class=3D"Section1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
color:#1F497D" data-mce-style=3D"font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri',=
'sans-serif'; color: #1f497d;">I doubt that your .030 squish would cause th=
e rattling as you describe.&nbsp; The deflection caused by the crank, rod a=
nd piston in order to hit the head at .030 would be way up in the rpm=E2=80=
=99s like 8000!</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
color:#1F497D" data-mce-style=3D"font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri',=
'sans-serif'; color: #1f497d;">&nbsp;</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-seri=
f&quot;;
color:#1F497D" data-mce-style=3D"font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri',=
'sans-serif'; color: #1f497d;">Did the rattling go away after all the parts=
 warmed up and oil was well disbursed or is it still rattling?&nbsp; My fir=
st guess would be either the engine was not pre-oiled or you have loose pis=
ton pin bushings=E2=80=A6.&nbsp; Were the rods rebuilt with new bushings fi=
tted to about .0003?&nbsp; </span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D=
"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
color:#1F497D" data-mce-style=3D"font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri',=
'sans-serif'; color: #1f497d;">&nbsp;</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-seri=
f&quot;;
color:#1F497D" data-mce-style=3D"font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri',=
'sans-serif'; color: #1f497d;">Steve Yott</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;
color:#1F497D" data-mce-style=3D"font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri',=
'sans-serif'; color: #1f497d;">&nbsp;</span></p><div><div style=3D"border:n=
one;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in" data-mce-styl=
e=3D"border: none; border-top: solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt; padding: 3.0pt 0in 0in =
0in;"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;" data-mce-style=3D"font-size: 10=
.0pt; font-family: 'Tahoma','sans-serif';">From:</span></b><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;" data=
-mce-style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Tahoma','sans-serif';"> Fot =
[mailto:[email-masked]] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Lang<br> <b>=
Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 25, 2016 11:29 AM<br> <b>To:</b> FOT List<br> <b>S=
ubject:</b> Re: [Fot] TR6 Piston / Head Clearance</span></p></div></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"bac=
kground:white" data-mce-style=3D"background: white;"><span style=3D"font-fa=
mily:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
color:black" data-mce-style=3D"font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color=
: black;">Hi,</span></p></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1464192999183_40=
39"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white" data-mce-style=3D"bac=
kground: white;"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;
color:black" data-mce-style=3D"font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color=
: black;">&nbsp;</span></p></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1464192999183=
_4040"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white" data-mce-style=3D"=
background: white;"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;=
sans-serif&quot;;
color:black" data-mce-style=3D"font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color=
: black;">Where I was going with the query was this: I had a late block "de=
cked" with the intent of making the deck flat. The machinist took of .032 t=
o accomplish the goal. With a head gasket installed and the head torqued, t=
he clearance in the squish area is .030.</span></p></div><div id=3D"yui_3_1=
6_0_ym19_1_1464192999183_4041"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:w=
hite" data-mce-style=3D"background: white;"><span style=3D"font-family:&quo=
t;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
color:black" data-mce-style=3D"font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color=
: black;">I had initially wanted only about .025 removed, but we had to sha=
ve an extra .007 to get rid of the fire ring cuts.</span></p></div><div id=
=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1464192999183_4042"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"b=
ackground:white" data-mce-style=3D"background: white;"><span style=3D"font-=
family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
color:black" data-mce-style=3D"font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color=
: black;">On initial startup, the motor sounded like it might be "rattling"=
 and I'm trying to figure out why.</span></p></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym=
19_1_1464192999183_4043"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white" =
data-mce-style=3D"background: white;"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helv=
etica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
color:black" data-mce-style=3D"font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color=
: black;">When I used a stethescope on the block, everything sounds okay - =
no rapping and the valve train sounds "normal" and there were no weird soun=
ds coming from the crank.</span></p></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1464=
192999183_4055"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white" data-mce-=
style=3D"background: white;"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
color:black" data-mce-style=3D"font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color=
: black;">I guess where I'm going with this is: if piston / head clearance =
is too tight, I'll see some sort of indication on the piston, right?</span>=
</p></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1464192999183_4056"><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal" style=3D"background:white" data-mce-style=3D"background: white;"><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
color:black" data-mce-style=3D"font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color=
: black;">TIA for any sage advice.</span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al" style=3D"background:white" data-mce-style=3D"background: white;"><span =
style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
color:black" data-mce-style=3D"font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color=
: black;">This is my first experience "decking" a block. I'd like to get it=
 right, I don't have the resources to start a new block from scratch.</span=
></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white" data-mce-=
style=3D"background: white;"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
color:black" data-mce-style=3D"font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color=
: black;">Regards,</span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"bac=
kground:white" data-mce-style=3D"background: white;"><span style=3D"font-fa=
mily:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
color:black" data-mce-style=3D"font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color=
: black;">Bob Lang</span></p></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_14641929991=
83_3788"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white" data-mce-style=
=3D"background: white;"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;
color:black" data-mce-style=3D"font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color=
: black;">&nbsp;</span></p></div></div></div><br>__________________________=
_____________________<br>[email-masked]<br><div><br></div>http://www.fo=
t-racing.com<br><div><br></div>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html<br>A=
rchive: http://www.team.net/archive<br>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums<b=
r>Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/toodamnfunk=
[email-masked]<br><div><br></div><br></div><div><br></div></div></body></htm=
l>
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