Subject: Re: [Fot] TR4 spitting thru Webers - haaaalp!

From: Tony Drews <[email-masked]> mail.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 19:41:21 -0500

I run slightly larger mains and smaller air 
correction - 36 chokes.  I think you're in the range on mains.

New engine?  Run OK with other carbs but not with 
the Webers?  Are you sure your cam is timed right 
(that's the first thing that came to mind - 
mis-timed cam)?  Intake manifold properly seated?  Valve adjustment OK?

There will be a certain amount of "standoff" 
where there's an atomized fuel cloud at the 
entrance to the carb and that's not abnormal.

I run air horns to manage the air flow and try to 
keep that cloud of gas in the carb.

Cheers, Tony Drews

At 07:14 PM 8/23/2015, J.C. Hassall wrote:
>My TR4 spits thru the 40DCOEs at idle and 
>speed.Â  Timing is set to 32 degrees at 3K RPM, 
>so idle is about 12 degrees.Â  I thought that 
>spitting thru the carbs meant too much advance, but I believe timing is ok.
>
>The AFR (sensor is in the 4-1 collector - bad 
>idea) at idle jumps between 13.8 and 15.3 (seems 
>like an enormous swing!).Â  Spitting doesn't 
>seem to coincide with any specific AFR.Â  The 
>carbs have been synched, etc. Â 34 chokes, 50F9 
>idle jets, mains are 120 with 200 air 
>correctors.Â  The mains seem awfully 
>small.Â  Even so, the AFR at speed is 
>12.8-13.5.Â  Plugs are NGK BP6HS, which are 
>sooty; the ground lug burns clean about half way.
>
>What am I doing wrong???Â  I'm at the end of my 
>wit (you're right Craig, it's a very short walk)
>
>tnx
>
>jim
>
>63 TR4 in autox prep, 99.5% finished, 90% to go
>_______________________________________________
>[email-masked]
>
>http://www.fot-racing.com
>
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From: "J.C. Hassall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 20:59:22 -0400

Tnx Tony.  I neglected to say that the Isky 777 was degrees bang-on.  My first thought was the cam but am sure it's ok.  

It's only had the Webers and I don't have SUs to try.  I am running shorty air horns (to fit inside the filters).

Valves are set right and no manifold leak detected by spraying carb cleaner around the manifold. 

jim

Fat-thumbed from my iPhone

> On Aug 23, 2015, at 8:41 PM, Tony Drews <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> I run slightly larger mains and smaller air correction - 36 chokes.  I think you're in the range on mains.
> 
> New engine?  Run OK with other carbs but not with the Webers?  Are you sure your cam is timed right (that's the first thing that came to mind - mis-timed cam)?  Intake manifold properly seated?  Valve adjustment OK?
> 
> There will be a certain amount of "standoff" where there's an atomized fuel cloud at the entrance to the carb and that's not abnormal.
> 
> I run air horns to manage the air flow and try to keep that cloud of gas in the carb.
> 
> Cheers, Tony Drews
> 
>> My TR4 spits thru the 40DCOEs at idle and speed.Â  Timing is set to 32 degrees at 3K RPM, so idle is about 12 degrees.Â  I thought that spitting thru the carbs meant too much advance, but I believe timing is ok.
>> 
>> The AFR (sensor is in the 4-1 collector - bad idea) at idle jumps between 13.8 and 15.3 (seems like an enormous swing!).Â  Spitting doesn't seem to coincide with any specific AFR.Â  The carbs have been synched, etc. Â 34 chokes, 50F9 idle jets, mains are 120 with 200 air correctors.Â  The mains seem awfully small.Â  Even so, the AFR at speed is 12.8-13.5.Â  Plugs are NGK BP6HS, which are sooty; the ground lug burns clean about half way.
>> 
>> What am I doing wrong???Â  I'm at the end of my wit (you're right Craig, it's a very short walk)
>> 
>> tnx
>> 
>> jim
>> 
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
> 
> 

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From: Chuck Gee <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 18:09:09 -0700

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Plugs too hot?
On Aug 23, 2015 6:01 PM, "J.C. Hassall" <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Tnx Tony.  I neglected to say that the Isky 777 was degrees bang-on.  My
> first thought was the cam but am sure it's ok.
>
> It's only had the Webers and I don't have SUs to try.  I am running short=
y
> air horns (to fit inside the filters).
>
> > New engine?  Run OK with other carbs but not with the Webers?  Are you
> sure your cam is timed right (that's the first thing that came to mind -
> > There will be a certain amount of "standoff" where there's an atomized
> fuel cloud at the entrance to the carb and that's not abnormal.
> >
> > I run air horns to manage the air flow and try to keep that cloud of ga=
s
> in the carb.
> >> My TR4 spits thru the 40DCOEs at idle and speed.=C3=82  Timing is set =
to 32
> degrees at 3K RPM, so idle is about 12 degrees.=C3=82  I thought that spi=
tting
> thru the carbs meant too much advance, but I believe timing is ok.
> >>
> >> The AFR (sensor is in the 4-1 collector - bad idea) at idle jumps
> between 13.8 and 15.3 (seems like an enormous swing!).=C3=82  Spitting do=
esn't
> seem to coincide with any specific AFR.=C3=82  The carbs have been synche=
d, etc.
> =C3=82 34 chokes, 50F9 idle jets, mains are 120 with 200 air correctors.=
=C3=82  The
> mains seem awfully small.=C3=82  Even so, the AFR at speed is 12.8-13.5.=
=C3=82  Plugs
> are NGK BP6HS, which are sooty; the ground lug burns clean about half way=
.
> >>
> >> What am I doing wrong???=C3=82  I'm at the end of my wit (you're right
> Craig, it's a very short walk)
> >>
> >> tnx
> >>
> >> jim
> >>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>
>
>

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<p dir=3D"ltr">Plugs too hot?</p>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Aug 23, 2015 6:01 PM, &quot;J.C. Hassall&quot=
; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrot=
e:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Tnx Tony.=C2=A0 I=
 neglected to say that the Isky 777 was degrees bang-on.=C2=A0 My first tho=
ught was the cam but am sure it&#39;s ok.<br>
<br>
It&#39;s only had the Webers and I don&#39;t have SUs to try.=C2=A0 I am ru=
nning shorty air horns (to fit inside the filters).<br>
<br>
Valves are set right and no manifold leak detected by spraying carb cleaner=
 around the manifold.<br>
<br>
jim<br>
<br>
Fat-thumbed from my iPhone<br>
<br>
&gt; On Aug 23, 2015, at 8:41 PM, Tony Drews &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tony@ton=
ydrews.com">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I run slightly larger mains and smaller air correction - 36 chokes.=C2=
=A0 I think you&#39;re in the range on mains.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; New engine?=C2=A0 Run OK with other carbs but not with the Webers?=C2=
=A0 Are you sure your cam is timed right (that&#39;s the first thing that c=
ame to mind - mis-timed cam)?=C2=A0 Intake manifold properly seated?=C2=A0 =
Valve adjustment OK?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; There will be a certain amount of &quot;standoff&quot; where there&#39=
;s an atomized fuel cloud at the entrance to the carb and that&#39;s not ab=
normal.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I run air horns to manage the air flow and try to keep that cloud of g=
as in the carb.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Cheers, Tony Drews<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; At 07:14 PM 8/23/2015, J.C. Hassall wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; My TR4 spits thru the 40DCOEs at idle and speed.=C3=82=C2=A0 Timin=
g is set to 32 degrees at 3K RPM, so idle is about 12 degrees.=C3=82=C2=A0 =
I thought that spitting thru the carbs meant too much advance, but I believ=
e timing is ok.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; The AFR (sensor is in the 4-1 collector - bad idea) at idle jumps =
between 13.8 and 15.3 (seems like an enormous swing!).=C3=82=C2=A0 Spitting=
 doesn&#39;t seem to coincide with any specific AFR.=C3=82=C2=A0 The carbs =
have been synched, etc. =C3=82 34 chokes, 50F9 idle jets, mains are 120 wit=
h 200 air correctors.=C3=82=C2=A0 The mains seem awfully small.=C3=82=C2=A0=
 Even so, the AFR at speed is 12.8-13.5.=C3=82=C2=A0 Plugs are NGK BP6HS, w=
hich are sooty; the ground lug burns clean about half way.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; What am I doing wrong???=C3=82=C2=A0 I&#39;m at the end of my wit =
(you&#39;re right Craig, it&#39;s a very short walk)<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; tnx<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; jim<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; 63 TR4 in autox prep, 99.5% finished, 90% to go<br>
&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D=
"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br>
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et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
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From: Mark J Bradakis <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 21:59:46 -0600

In general spitting through the carbs is a sign of too lean or bad timing.
Are you sure TDC is TDC?

mjb.

---

From: Kas Kastner <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 21:16:08 -0700

--===============1107057402537125907==

--001a1140269ad32f17051e06e286
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I don't want to get to close to this, but spitting through the carb is not
an unknown phenomenon and my answer is " SO WHAT?.".  Full throttle at
speed RPM that is another deal, but who cares at slightly over idle. That
cam is a long way from a hot race cam even at 300 degrees duration and the
overlap is making you worry.  DON'T WORRY about it.

*Never be beaten by equipment.*

y
s
to 32
tting
esn't
d, etc.
=C3=82  The
=C3=82  Plugs
.
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>
>
>

--001a1140269ad32f17051e06e286
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<div dir=3D"ltr">I don&#39;t want to get to close to this, but spitting=C2=
=A0through the=C2=A0<span>carb</span> is not an unknown phenomenon and my a=
nswer is &quot; SO WHAT?.&quot;.=C2=A0 Full throttle at speed RPM that is a=
nother deal, but who cares at slightly over idle. That cam is a long way fr=
om a hot race cam even at 300 degrees duration and the overlap is making yo=
u worry.=C2=A0 DON&#39;T WORRY about it. </div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><=
br clear=3D"all"><div><div class=3D"gmail_signature"><p><strong><font color=
=3D"#000099">Never be beaten by equipment.</font></strong></p></div></div>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 5:59 PM, J.C. Hassal=
l <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_bl=
ank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:=
1ex">Tnx Tony.=C2=A0 I neglected to say that the Isky 777 was degrees bang-=
on.=C2=A0 My first thought was the cam but am sure it&#39;s ok.<br>
<br>
It&#39;s only had the Webers and I don&#39;t have SUs to try.=C2=A0 I am ru=
nning shorty air horns (to fit inside the filters).<br>
<br>
Valves are set right and no manifold leak detected by spraying carb cleaner=
 around the manifold.<br>
<br>
jim<br>
<br>
Fat-thumbed from my iPhone<br>
<br>
&gt; On Aug 23, 2015, at 8:41 PM, Tony Drews &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tony@ton=
ydrews.com">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I run slightly larger mains and smaller air correction - 36 chokes.=C2=
=A0 I think you&#39;re in the range on mains.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; New engine?=C2=A0 Run OK with other carbs but not with the Webers?=C2=
=A0 Are you sure your cam is timed right (that&#39;s the first thing that c=
ame to mind - mis-timed cam)?=C2=A0 Intake manifold properly seated?=C2=A0 =
Valve adjustment OK?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; There will be a certain amount of &quot;standoff&quot; where there&#39=
;s an atomized fuel cloud at the entrance to the carb and that&#39;s not ab=
normal.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I run air horns to manage the air flow and try to keep that cloud of g=
as in the carb.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Cheers, Tony Drews<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; At 07:14 PM 8/23/2015, J.C. Hassall wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; My TR4 spits thru the 40DCOEs at idle and speed.=C3=82=C2=A0 Timin=
g is set to 32 degrees at 3K RPM, so idle is about 12 degrees.=C3=82=C2=A0 =
I thought that spitting thru the carbs meant too much advance, but I believ=
e timing is ok.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; The AFR (sensor is in the 4-1 collector - bad idea) at idle jumps =
between 13.8 and 15.3 (seems like an enormous swing!).=C3=82=C2=A0 Spitting=
 doesn&#39;t seem to coincide with any specific AFR.=C3=82=C2=A0 The carbs =
have been synched, etc. =C3=82 34 chokes, 50F9 idle jets, mains are 120 wit=
h 200 air correctors.=C3=82=C2=A0 The mains seem awfully small.=C3=82=C2=A0=
 Even so, the AFR at speed is 12.8-13.5.=C3=82=C2=A0 Plugs are NGK BP6HS, w=
hich are sooty; the ground lug burns clean about half way.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; What am I doing wrong???=C3=82=C2=A0 I&#39;m at the end of my wit =
(you&#39;re right Craig, it&#39;s a very short walk)<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; tnx<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; jim<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; 63 TR4 in autox prep, 99.5% finished, 90% to go<br>
&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nor=
eferrer">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
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From: Bud R <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 00:13:16 -0600

--===============2374082279259461784==

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	charset=us-ascii

Spitting back could mean the mixture is too lean or possibly a vacuum =
leak. Have you checked for vac leaks with carb cleaner, there was a TR4 =
recently at a race that had a leak at the intake manifold gasket that =
was easily found by spraying carb cleaner.

Bud Rolofson

Extreme Parts Racing (more than just a haircut)

71TR6 CC57365 (Good 6)
71 Spitfire MK IV Race Car #3
69 Spitfire MK III (back up FE engine/dinghy car)
93 Minnie Winnie Race Support Vehicle=20
77 Z-50A Hardly Davidson Honda Mini-Trail Bike (Triumph Pit Bike)

On Aug 23, 2015, at 6:14 PM, J.C. Hassall <[email-masked]> wrote:

> My TR4 spits thru the 40DCOEs at idle and speed.  Timing is set to 32 =
degrees at 3K RPM, so idle is about 12 degrees.  I thought that spitting =
thru the carbs meant too much advance, but I believe timing is ok.
>=20
> The AFR (sensor is in the 4-1 collector - bad idea) at idle jumps =
between 13.8 and 15.3 (seems like an enormous swing!).  Spitting doesn't =
seem to coincide with any specific AFR.  The carbs have been synched, =
etc.  34 chokes, 50F9 idle jets, mains are 120 with 200 air correctors.  =
The mains seem awfully small.  Even so, the AFR at speed is 12.8-13.5.  =
Plugs are NGK BP6HS, which are sooty; the ground lug burns clean about =
half way.
>=20
> What am I doing wrong???  I'm at the end of my wit (you're right =
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>=20
>=20

--Apple-Mail=_B1B33B11-C2ED-41B9-963A-13D5C49AF06A
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	charset=us-ascii

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;">Spitting back could mean the mixture is too lean or =
possibly a vacuum leak. Have you checked for vac leaks with carb =
cleaner, there was a TR4 recently at a race that had a leak at the =
intake manifold gasket that was easily found by spraying carb =
cleaner.<br><div apple-content-edited=3D"true">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; border-collapse: separate; orphans: 2; =
widows: 2; border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: =
none;"><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; widows: =
2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;"><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"orphans: =
2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;"><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"orphans: =
2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;"><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"orphans: =
2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;"><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"orphans: =
2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;"><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"orphans: =
2; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: =
none;"><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;"><div><div =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">Bud Rolofson</div><div =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br></div><div style=3D"border-collapse: =
separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;">Extreme Parts Racing&nbsp;(more than just a haircut)</div><div =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br></div><div>71TR6 CC57365 (Good =
6)</div><div style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">71 Spitfire MK IV =
Race Car #3</div><div style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">69 Spitfire MK III =
(back up FE engine/dinghy car)</div><div style=3D"border-collapse: =
separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;">93 Minnie Winnie Race Support Vehicle&nbsp;</div><div =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">77 Z-50A Hardly Davidson Honda =
Mini-Trail Bike (Triumph Pit Bike)</div></div><div =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><br></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span=
></div></span></div></span></div></span>
</div>
<br><div><div>On Aug 23, 2015, at 6:14 PM, J.C. Hassall &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">My TR4 spits thru the 40DCOEs at idle and =
speed.&nbsp; Timing is set to 32 degrees at 3K RPM, so idle is about 12 =
degrees.&nbsp; I thought that spitting thru the carbs meant too much =
advance, but I believe timing is ok.<div><br></div><div>The AFR (sensor =
is in the 4-1 collector - bad idea) at idle jumps between 13.8 and 15.3 =
(seems like an enormous swing!).&nbsp; Spitting doesn't seem to coincide =
with any specific AFR.&nbsp; The carbs have been synched, etc. &nbsp;34 =
chokes, 50F9 idle jets, mains are 120 with 200 air correctors.&nbsp; The =
mains seem awfully small.&nbsp; Even so, the AFR at speed is =
12.8-13.5.&nbsp; Plugs are NGK BP6HS, which are sooty; the ground lug =
burns clean about half way.</div><div><br></div><div>What am I doing =
wrong???&nbsp; I'm at the end of my wit (you're right Craig, it's a very =
short =
walk)</div><div><br></div><div>tnx</div><div><br></div><div>jim</div><div>=
<br></div><div>63 TR4 in autox prep, 99.5% finished, 90% to =
go</div></div>
_______________________________________________<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br><br>http://ww=
w.fot-racing.com<br><br>Donate: =
http://www.team.net/forums<br>Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]<br><br><br>=
</blockquote></div><br></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_B1B33B11-C2ED-41B9-963A-13D5C49AF06A--

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---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 17:33:19 +0000 (UTC)

--===============4542049300139581636==
	boundary="----=_Part_5507293_816356441.1440437599736"

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That Isky 777 has a 110 degree lobe separation so that's not it. ( overlap)=
. Sooty plugs would=C2=A0lead me=C2=A0to ignition.=20
Plug wires arcing out, distributor cap/rotor mis-fire. Do you run an MSD ? =
Block & ignition ground solid & clean ?=20
jim g=20

----- Original Message -----

From: "Chuck Gee" <[email-masked]>=20
To: "J.C. Hassall" <[email-masked]>=20
Cc: "'Friends of Triumph' Triumph" <[email-masked]>=20
Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2015 7:09:09 PM=20
Subject: Re: [Fot] TR4 spitting thru Webers - haaaalp!=20

Plugs too hot?=20
On Aug 23, 2015 6:01 PM, "J.C. Hassall" < [email-masked] > wrote:=20

Tnx Tony.=C2=A0 I neglected to say that the Isky 777 was degrees bang-on.=
=C2=A0 My first thought was the cam but am sure it's ok.=20

It's only had the Webers and I don't have SUs to try.=C2=A0 I am running sh=
orty air horns (to fit inside the filters).=20

 around the manifold.=20

jim=20

Fat-thumbed from my iPhone=20

> On Aug 23, 2015, at 8:41 PM, Tony Drews < [email-masked] > wrote:=20
>=20
> I run slightly larger mains and smaller air correction - 36 chokes.=C2=A0=
 I think you're in the range on mains.=20
>=20
> New engine?=C2=A0 Run OK with other carbs but not with the Webers?=C2=A0 =
Are you sure your cam is timed right (that's the first thing that came to m=
ind - mis-timed cam)?=C2=A0 Intake manifold properly seated?=C2=A0 Valve ad=
justment OK?=20
>=20
> There will be a certain amount of "standoff" where there's an atomized fu=
el cloud at the entrance to the carb and that's not abnormal.=20
>=20
> I run air horns to manage the air flow and try to keep that cloud of gas =
in the carb.=20
>=20
> Cheers, Tony Drews=20
>=20
> At 07:14 PM 8/23/2015, J.C. Hassall wrote:=20
>> My TR4 spits thru the 40DCOEs at idle and speed.=C3=82=C2=A0 Timing is s=
et to 32 degrees at 3K RPM, so idle is about 12 degrees.=C3=82=C2=A0 I thou=
ght that spitting thru the carbs meant too much advance, but I believe timi=
ng is ok.=20
>>=20
>> The AFR (sensor is in the 4-1 collector - bad idea) at idle jumps betwee=
n 13.8 and 15.3 (seems like an enormous swing!).=C3=82=C2=A0 Spitting doesn=
't seem to coincide with any specific AFR.=C3=82=C2=A0 The carbs have been =
synched, etc. =C3=82 34 chokes, 50F9 idle jets, mains are 120 with 200 air =
correctors.=C3=82=C2=A0 The mains seem awfully small.=C3=82=C2=A0 Even so, =
the AFR at speed is 12.8-13.5.=C3=82=C2=A0 Plugs are NGK BP6HS, which are s=
ooty; the ground lug burns clean about half way.=20
>>=20
>> What am I doing wrong???=C3=82=C2=A0 I'm at the end of my wit (you're ri=
ght Craig, it's a very short walk)=20
>>=20
>> tnx=20
>>=20
>> jim=20
>>=20
>> 63 TR4 in autox prep, 99.5% finished, 90% to go=20
>> _______________________________________________=20
>> [email-masked]=20
>>=20
>> http://www.fot-racing.com=20
>>=20
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html=20
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive=20
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums=20
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tony@tonyd=
rews.com=20
_______________________________________________=20
[email-masked]=20

http://www.fot-racing.com=20

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive=20
il.com=20

_______________________________________________=20
[email-masked]=20

http://www.fot-racing.com=20

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive=20
comcast.net=20

------=_Part_5507293_816356441.1440437599736
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><body><div style=3D"font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #0000=
00"><DIV>That Isky 777 has a 110 degree lobe separation so that's not it. (=
 overlap). Sooty plugs would&nbsp;lead me&nbsp;to ignition.<BR></DIV>
<DIV>Plug wires arcing out, distributor cap/rotor mis-fire. Do you run an M=
SD ? Block &amp; ignition ground solid &amp; clean ?</DIV>
<DIV>jim g</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<HR id=3Dzwchr>

<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetic=
a,Arial,sans-serif; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000; FONT-STYLE: normal"><=
B>From: </B>"Chuck Gee" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<BR><B>To: </B>"J.C. Has=
sall" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<BR><B>Cc: </B>"'Friends of Triumph' Triump=
h" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<BR><B>Sent: </B>Sunday, August 23, 2015 7:09:=
09 PM<BR><B>Subject: </B>Re: [Fot] TR4 spitting thru Webers - haaaalp!<BR>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<P dir=3Dltr>Plugs too hot?</P>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Aug 23, 2015 6:01 PM, "J.C. Hassall" &lt;<A hre=
f=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D_blank>[email-masked]</A>&gt; =
wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px=
 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">Tnx Tony.&nbsp; I neglected to say=
 that the Isky 777 was degrees bang-on.&nbsp; My first thought was the cam =
but am sure it's ok.<BR><BR>It's only had the Webers and I don't have SUs t=
o try.&nbsp; I am running shorty air horns (to fit inside the filters).<BR>=
<BR>Valves are set right and no manifold leak detected by spraying carb cle=
aner around the manifold.<BR><BR>jim<BR><BR>Fat-thumbed from my iPhone<BR><=
BR>&gt; On Aug 23, 2015, at 8:41 PM, Tony Drews &lt;<A href=3D"mailto:tony@=
tonydrews.com" target=3D_blank>[email-masked]</A>&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR=
>&gt; I run slightly larger mains and smaller air correction - 36 chokes.&n=
bsp; I think you're in the range on mains.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; New engine?&nbsp=
; Run OK with other carbs but not with the Webers?&nbsp; Are you sure your =
cam is timed right (that's the first thing that came to mind - mis-timed ca=
m)?&nbsp; Intake manifold properly seated?&nbsp; Valve adjustment OK?<BR>&g=
t;<BR>&gt; There will be a certain amount of "standoff" where there's an at=
omized fuel cloud at the entrance to the carb and that's not abnormal.<BR>&=
gt;<BR>&gt; I run air horns to manage the air flow and try to keep that clo=
ud of gas in the carb.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Cheers, Tony Drews<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; A=
t 07:14 PM 8/23/2015, J.C. Hassall wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; My TR4 spits thru the=
 40DCOEs at idle and speed.=C3=82&nbsp; Timing is set to 32 degrees at 3K R=
PM, so idle is about 12 degrees.=C3=82&nbsp; I thought that spitting thru t=
he carbs meant too much advance, but I believe timing is ok.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR=
>&gt;&gt; The AFR (sensor is in the 4-1 collector - bad idea) at idle jumps=
 between 13.8 and 15.3 (seems like an enormous swing!).=C3=82&nbsp; Spittin=
g doesn't seem to coincide with any specific AFR.=C3=82&nbsp; The carbs hav=
e been synched, etc. =C3=82 34 chokes, 50F9 idle jets, mains are 120 with 2=
00 air correctors.=C3=82&nbsp; The mains seem awfully small.=C3=82&nbsp; Ev=
en so, the AFR at speed is 12.8-13.5.=C3=82&nbsp; Plugs are NGK BP6HS, whic=
h are sooty; the ground lug burns clean about half way.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;=
&gt; What am I doing wrong???=C3=82&nbsp; I'm at the end of my wit (you're =
right Craig, it's a very short walk)<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; tnx<BR>&gt;&gt=
;<BR>&gt;&gt; jim<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; 63 TR4 in autox prep, 99.5% finis=
hed, 90% to go<BR>&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<=
BR>&gt;&gt; <A href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D_blank>fot@autox=
.team.net</A><BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; <A href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com/=
" rel=3Dnoreferrer target=3D_blank>http://www.fot-racing.com</A><BR>&gt;&gt=
;<BR>&gt;&gt; Donate: <A href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" rel=3Dnor=
eferrer target=3D_blank>http://www.team.net/donate.html</A><BR>&gt;&gt; Arc=
hive: <A href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3Dnoreferrer target=3D_bl=
ank>http://www.team.net/archive</A><BR>&gt;&gt; Forums: <A href=3D"http://w=
ww.team.net/forums" rel=3Dnoreferrer target=3D_blank>http://www.team.net/fo=
rums</A><BR>&gt;&gt; Unsubscribe/Manage: <A href=3D"http://autox.team.net/m=
ailman/options/fot/[email-masked]" rel=3Dnoreferrer target=3D_blank>htt=
p://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</A><BR>&gt;<BR>&g=
t;<BR>_______________________________________________<BR><A href=3D"mailto:=
[email-masked]" target=3D_blank>[email-masked]</A><BR><BR><A href=
=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com/" rel=3Dnoreferrer target=3D_blank>http://www=
.fot-racing.com</A><BR><BR>Donate: <A href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.ht=
ml" rel=3Dnoreferrer target=3D_blank>http://www.team.net/donate.html</A><BR=
>Archive: <A href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3Dnoreferrer target=
=3D_blank>http://www.team.net/archive</A><BR>Forums: <A href=3D"http://www.=
team.net/forums" rel=3Dnoreferrer target=3D_blank>http://www.team.net/forum=
s</A><BR>Unsubscribe/Manage: <A href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/optio=
ns/fot/[email-masked]" rel=3Dnoreferrer target=3D_blank>http://autox.t=
eam.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</A><BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE=
></DIV><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>[email-masked]=
m.net<BR>
<DIV><BR></DIV>http://www.fot-racing.com<BR>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html<BR>Archive: http://w=
ww.team.net/archive<BR>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums<BR>Unsubscribe/Ma=
nage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]<BR=
<DIV><BR></DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV></div></body></html>
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---

From: "J.C. Hassall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 17:13:07 -0400

--===============7030420863186064446==

--089e01493fa8869ff1051e151579

Many thanks to all who responded.  I should have mentioned that the engine
runs like gang busters then spits at apparently random times (irrespective
of throttle).  I did receive some great ideas, tnx.  The points are new
(replaced the XR3000 as a test), all grounds are common at the starter and
the valves are all set to spec. TDC is bang on and cam timed properly (I
was really AR about that!).

I'm going to pull the header and install 2 O2 sensor bungs.  Installing the
AFR sensor in the collector was a mistake (I assumed both carbs would be
the same, but now I need to determine if one of 'em is a problem).  Then
I'll start implementing the suggestions.

Tnx again to everyone who responded.  I will post the results when it's
running as intended.

jim

On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 8:14 PM, J.C. Hassall <[email-masked]> wrote:

> My TR4 spits thru the 40DCOEs at idle and speed.  Timing is set to 32
> degrees at 3K RPM, so idle is about 12 degrees.  I thought that spitting
> The AFR (sensor is in the 4-1 collector - bad idea) at idle jumps between
> 13.8 and 15.3 (seems like an enormous swing!).  Spitting doesn't seem to
> coincide with any specific AFR.  The carbs have been synched, etc.  34
> chokes, 50F9 idle jets, mains are 120 with 200 air correctors.  The mains
> seem awfully small.  Even so, the AFR at speed is 12.8-13.5.  Plugs are NGK
> BP6HS, which are sooty; the ground lug burns clean about half way.
>
> What am I doing wrong???  I'm at the end of my wit (you're right Craig,
> it's a very short walk)
>
> tnx
>
> jim
>

--089e01493fa8869ff1051e151579
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Many thanks to all who responded.=C2=A0 I should have ment=
ioned that the engine runs like gang busters then spits at apparently rando=
m times (irrespective of throttle).=C2=A0 I did receive some great ideas, t=
nx.=C2=A0 The points are new (replaced the XR3000 as a test), all grounds a=
re common at the starter and the valves are all set to spec. TDC is bang on=
 and cam timed properly (I was really AR about that!).<div><br></div><div>I=
&#39;m going to pull the header and install 2 O2 sensor bungs.=C2=A0 Instal=
ling the AFR sensor in the collector was a mistake (I assumed both carbs wo=
uld be the same, but now I need to determine if one of &#39;em is a problem=
).=C2=A0 Then I&#39;ll start implementing the suggestions.</div><div><br></=
div><div>Tnx again to everyone who responded.=C2=A0 I will post the results=
 when it&#39;s running as intended.</div><div><br></div><div>jim</div></div=
><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Aug 23, =
2015 at 8:14 PM, J.C. Hassall <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jhass=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<b=
r><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:=
1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">My TR4 spits thru the 40D=
COEs at idle and speed.=C2=A0 Timing is set to 32 degrees at 3K RPM, so idl=
e is about 12 degrees.=C2=A0 I thought that spitting thru the carbs meant t=
oo much advance, but I believe timing is ok.<div><br></div><div>The AFR (se=
nsor is in the 4-1 collector - bad idea) at idle jumps between 13.8 and 15.=
3 (seems like an enormous swing!).=C2=A0 Spitting doesn&#39;t seem to coinc=
ide with any specific AFR.=C2=A0 The carbs have been synched, etc. =C2=A034=
 chokes, 50F9 idle jets, mains are 120 with 200 air correctors.=C2=A0 The m=
ains seem awfully small.=C2=A0 Even so, the AFR at speed is 12.8-13.5.=C2=
=A0 Plugs are NGK BP6HS, which are sooty; the ground lug burns clean about =
half way.</div><div><br></div><div>What am I doing wrong???=C2=A0 I&#39;m a=
t the end of my wit (you&#39;re right Craig, it&#39;s a very short walk)</d=
iv><div><br></div><div>tnx</div><div><br></div><div>jim</div><div><br></div=
><div>63 TR4 in autox prep, 99.5% finished, 90% to go</div></div>

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---

From: Tony Drews <[email-masked]> mail.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 20:51:24 -0500

--===============8993367653764561439==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<body>
How's your fuel pressure when the carbs seem to go south?&nbsp; How about
EGT's?&nbsp; I have those gauges exactly for this kind of issue.<br><br>
Cheers, Tony<br><br>
At 04:13 PM 8/24/2015, J.C. Hassall wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D"">Many thanks to all who
responded.=C2&nbsp; I should have mentioned that the engine runs like gang
busters then spits at apparently random times (irrespective of
throttle).=C2&nbsp; I did receive some great ideas, tnx.=C2&nbsp; The points
are new (replaced the XR3000 as a test), all grounds are common at the
starter and the valves are all set to spec. TDC is bang on and cam timed
properly (I was really AR about that!).<br><br>
I'm going to pull the header and install 2 O2 sensor bungs.=C2&nbsp;
Installing the AFR sensor in the collector was a mistake (I assumed both
carbs would be the same, but now I need to determine if one of 'em is a
problem).=C2&nbsp; Then I'll start implementing the suggestions.<br><br>
Tnx again to everyone who responded.=C2&nbsp; I will post the results when
it's running as intended.<br><br>
jim<br><br>
On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 8:14 PM, J.C. Hassall
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
wrote:<br>

<dl>
<dd>My TR4 spits thru the 40DCOEs at idle and speed.=C2&nbsp; Timing is set
to 32 degrees at 3K RPM, so idle is about 12 degrees.=C2&nbsp; I thought
that spitting thru the carbs meant too much advance, but I believe timing
is ok.<br><br>

<dd>The AFR (sensor is in the 4-1 collector - bad idea) at idle jumps
between 13.8 and 15.3 (seems like an enormous swing!).=C2&nbsp; Spitting
doesn't seem to coincide with any specific AFR.=C2&nbsp; The carbs have
been synched, etc. =C2 34 chokes, 50F9 idle jets, mains are 120 with 200
air correctors.=C2&nbsp; The mains seem awfully small.=C2&nbsp; Even so, the
AFR at speed is 12.8-13.5.=C2&nbsp; Plugs are NGK BP6HS, which are sooty;
the ground lug burns clean about half way.<br><br>

<dd>What am I doing wrong???=C2&nbsp; I'm at the end of my wit (you're
right Craig, it's a very short walk)<br><br>

<dd>tnx<br><br>

<dd>jim<br><br>

<dd>63 TR4 in autox prep, 99.5% finished, 90% to go<br><br>

</dl><br>
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From: Tony Drews <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015 13:01:24 -0500

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The reason I mention fuel pressure is that the Webers don't seem to like
much in the way of pressure.&nbsp; I run 2 psi.&nbsp; Seems like much
higher than that and the float doesn't stop the fuel from going into the
float bowl.<br><br>
If you've got a pressure regulator that's providing varying pressure you
could see richness when it goes over the limit of the carbs.<br><br>
Cheers, Tony<br><br>
At 08:51 PM 8/24/2015, Tony Drews wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D"">How's your fuel pressure when
the carbs seem to go south?&nbsp; How about EGT's?&nbsp; I have those
gauges exactly for this kind of issue.<br><br>
Cheers, Tony<br><br>
At 04:13 PM 8/24/2015, J.C. Hassall wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D"">Many thanks to all who
responded.=C2&nbsp; I should have mentioned that the engine runs like gang
busters then spits at apparently random times (irrespective of
throttle).=C2&nbsp; I did receive some great ideas, tnx.=C2&nbsp; The points
are new (replaced the XR3000 as a test), all grounds are common at the
starter and the valves are all set to spec. TDC is bang on and cam timed
properly (I was really AR about that!).<br><br>
I'm going to pull the header and install 2 O2 sensor bungs.=C2&nbsp;
Installing the AFR sensor in the collector was a mistake (I assumed both
carbs would be the same, but now I need to determine if one of 'em is a
problem).=C2&nbsp; Then I'll start implementing the suggestions.<br><br>
Tnx again to everyone who responded.=C2&nbsp; I will post the results when
it's running as intended.<br><br>
jim<br><br>
On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 8:14 PM, J.C. Hassall
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
wrote:
<dl>
<dd>My TR4 spits thru the 40DCOEs at idle and speed.=C2&nbsp; Timing is set
to 32 degrees at 3K RPM, so idle is about 12 degrees.=C2&nbsp; I thought
that spitting thru the carbs meant too much advance, but I believe timing
is ok.<br>

the ground lug burns clean about half way.<br>

<dd>What am I doing wrong???=C2&nbsp; I'm at the end of my wit (you're
right Craig, it's a very short walk)<br>

<dd>tnx<br>

<dd>jim<br>

</blockquote><br>

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