Subject: [Fot] early TR3 input shaft question

From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 12:27:34 +0000

I have an early TR2/3 non-synchro first gear overdrive tranny that I am rebuilding. The mainshaft was trashed so I bought one on eBay but it is different in an important way. The old one was similar to the ones that I'm used to seeing in a TR4, the input shaft rides on a caged set of rollers on the snout of the mainshaft. This early one, according to the Moss catalog, takes a $39.00 bushing on a much smaller diameter bearing surface. It is also longer which I think is an important difference requiring an early input shaft that I don't have. Does anyone know if the diameter of the early style TR2/3 bushing mates up to the inside of the later input shaft diameter with the bearing removed? I figure I can trim off a bit of the mainshaft and bushing and make it work if the bushing mates to the later input shaft.

Bob Kramer
[email-masked]
_______________________________________________
[email-masked]

http://www.fot-racing.com

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

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From: "Enquiries Road & Track" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 07:38:52 +1000

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the hard bronze bush system was used on all vanguards and non syncro TR;s.
The bush needs to float between main-shaft spigot and input shaft inner, so
about 0.003" clearance both inside and outside. we always made them with a
deep cut spiral in them to transfer oil. they will feel sloppy and the
input shaft will move around, but its no hassle in a race car box that
comes apart regularly and is not expected to last 100,000 miles. Use LG3
spec bronze material to make them

Terry

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<div dir=3D"ltr">the hard bronze bush system was used on all vanguards and =
non syncro TR;s. The bush needs to float between main-shaft spigot and inpu=
t shaft inner, so about 0.003&quot; clearance both inside and outside. we a=
lways made them with a deep cut spiral in them to transfer oil. they will f=
eel sloppy and the input shaft will move around, but its no hassle in a rac=
e car box that comes apart regularly and is not expected to last 100,000 mi=
les. Use LG3 spec bronze material to make them<div><div><div class=3D"gmail=
_signature"><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_signature">Terry</div>
</div></div>

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From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 22:01:17 +0000

That's the type of info I was looking for. Thanks Terry
Bob Kramer
[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 20:35:57 -0400

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=20=20=20=20I=20agree,=20loose=20is=20the=20way=20to=20go=20with=20that=20bushin=
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original=20third=20motion=20shaft=20(rear=20mainshaft)=20had=20a=20scroll=20cut=20=
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=0D=0A=20=0D=0A=20-----Original=20Message-----=0D=0A=20From:=20rkramer3=20&lt;rk=
[email-masked]&gt;=0D=0A=20To:=20Enquiries=20Road=20&=20Track=20&lt;enquir=
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Wed,=20Aug=2019,=202015=203:01=20pm=0D=0A=20Subject:=20Re:=20[Fot]=20early=20TR3=
=20input=20shaft=20question=0D=0A=20=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A=20=20=20=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A=
=20That's=20the=20type=20of=20info=20I=20was=20looking=20for.=20Thanks=20Terry=20=
=0D=0A=20Bob=20Kramer=20=0D=0A=[email-masked]=20=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A=20-=
---=20Enquiries=20Road=20&=20Track=20&lt;[email-masked]&gt;=20wro=
te:=20=20=0D=0A=20&gt;=20the=20hard=20bronze=20bush=20system=20was=20used=20on=20=
all=20vanguards=20and=20non=20syncro=20TR;s.=20=0D=0A=20&gt;=20The=20bush=20need=
s=20to=20float=20between=20main-shaft=20spigot=20and=20input=20shaft=20inner,=20=
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=20we=20always=20made=20them=20with=20a=20=0D=0A=20&gt;=20deep=20cut=20spiral=20=
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=20=20=0D=0A=20=20=0A=0A
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=20=20=0D=0A<div=20id=3D"AOLMsgPart_1_7e03571d-ec10-4ba6-8d77-fb845e6ab42b">=20=20=
<font=20size=3D"4"><font=20face=3D"Comic=20Sans=20MS,=20sans-serif">I=20agree,=20=
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=20the=20insertion=20of=20the=20third=20motion=20shaft=20into=20that=20bushing.=20=
The=20nose=20of=20the=20original=20third=20motion=20shaft=20(rear=20mainshaft)=20=
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=0A=20=20=0D=0A<div><br>=0D=0A=20</div>=0D=0A=20-----Original=20Message-----<br>=
=0D=0A=20From:=20rkramer3=20&lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>=0D=0A=20To:=20Enq=
uiries=20Road=20&amp;=20Track=20&lt;[email-masked]&gt;;=20fot=20&=
lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>=0D=0A=20Sent:=20Wed,=20Aug=2019,=202015=203:01=20p=
m<br>=0D=0A=20Subject:=20Re:=20[Fot]=20early=20TR3=20input=20shaft=20question<br=
>=0D=0A=20<br>=0D=0A=20=20<br>=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A<div=20id=3D"AOLMsgPart_0_424803=
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>That's=20the=20type=20of=20info=20I=20was=20looking=20for.=20Thanks=20Terry=20<=
br>=0D=0A=20Bob=20Kramer=20<br>=0D=0A=20<a=20href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
om">[email-masked]</a>=20<br>=0D=0A=20=20<br>=0D=0A=20----=20Enquiries=20=
Road=20&amp;=20Track=20&lt;<a=20href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">en=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;=20wrote:=20=20<br>=0D=0A=20&gt;=20the=20hard=
=20bronze=20bush=20system=20was=20used=20on=20all=20vanguards=20and=20non=20sync=
ro=20TR;s.=20<br>=0D=0A=20&gt;=20The=20bush=20needs=20to=20float=20between=20mai=
n-shaft=20spigot=20and=20input=20shaft=20inner,=20so=20<br>=0D=0A=20&gt;=20about=
=200.003"=20clearance=20both=20inside=20and=20outside.=20we=20always=20made=20th=
em=20with=20a=20<br>=0D=0A=20&gt;=20deep=20cut=20spiral=20in=20them=20to=20trans=
fer=20oil.=20they=20will=20feel=20sloppy=20and=20the=20<br>=0D=0A=20&gt;=20input=
=20shaft=20will=20move=20around,=20but=20its=20no=20hassle=20in=20a=20race=20car=
=20box=20that=20<br>=0D=0A=20&gt;=20comes=20apart=20regularly=20and=20is=20not=20=
expected=20to=20last=20100,000=20miles.=20Use=20LG3=20<br>=0D=0A=20&gt;=20spec=20=
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From: Bob Kramer <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 22:12:37 -0500

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I had a little time this weekend to work on the early TR3 tranny again and I=
 test fitted the gears on the mainshaft. This early box has the funky three e=
ared thrust washer, with holes.

I have two questions I hope can be answered. The three eared washer locks on=
to the splines on the mainshaft but there is a significant gap for the hub t=
o slide on the mainshaft. Is that hub supposed to slide or does another wash=
er go in front ? And, why the holes?=20

I don't see the extra washer in parts books.

I'm getting a custom bushing made to use a TR4 input shaft on the early main=
shaft.

Thanks in advance.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 19, 2015, at 7:35 PM, [email-masked] wrote:
>=20
> I agree, loose is the way to go with that bushing. The original style also=
 had a chamfered edge on the rear of the inside diameter, probably to help t=
he insertion of the third motion shaft into that bushing. The nose of the or=
iginal third motion shaft (rear mainshaft) had a scroll cut into it to help l=
ubrication, but the original bushings were smooth on both inside and out.
>=20
> I think the factory went to the larger needle style bearing to alleviate t=
he wear issue in the bushing as it allowed the trans to pop out of third gea=
r on decel when that bushing got worn enough to allow movement at that inter=
face.
>=20
> Good luck and check the triangular thrust spacer at the back of the box fo=
r cracks emanating from the corners of the teeth cut into it.
>=20
> my bushings are a bit worn as well...
> Nick in Nor Cal
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rkramer3 <[email-masked]>
> To: Enquiries Road & Track <[email-masked]>; fot <fot@autox=
.team.net>
> Sent: Wed, Aug 19, 2015 3:01 pm
> Subject: Re: [Fot] early TR3 input shaft question
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> That's the type of info I was looking for. Thanks Terry=20
>=20
>  Bob Kramer=20
>=20
>  [email-masked]=20
>=20
>  =20
>=20
>  ---- Enquiries Road & Track <[email-masked]> wrote: =20
>=20
>  > the hard bronze bush system was used on all vanguards and non syncro TR=
;s.=20
>=20
>  > The bush needs to float between main-shaft spigot and input shaft inner=
, so=20
>=20
>  > about 0.003" clearance both inside and outside. we always made them wit=
h a=20
>=20
>  > deep cut spiral in them to transfer oil. they will feel sloppy and the=20=

>=20
>  > input shaft will move around, but its no hassle in a race car box that=20=

>=20
>  > comes apart regularly and is not expected to last 100,000 miles. Use LG=
3=20
>=20
>  > spec bronze material to make them=20
>=20
>  > =20
>=20
>  > Terry=20
>=20
>  =20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> =20
>=20
>=20

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<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>I had a little time this weekend to work on the early TR3 tranny again and I test fitted the gears on the mainshaft. This early box has the funky three eared thrust washer, with holes.</div><div><br></div><div>I have two questions I hope can be answered. The three eared washer locks onto the splines on the mainshaft but there is a significant gap for the hub to slide on the mainshaft. Is that hub supposed to slide or does another washer go in front ? And, why the holes?&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>I don't see the extra washer in parts books.</div><div><br></div><div>I'm getting a custom bushing made to use a TR4 input shaft on the early mainshaft.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks in advance.</div><div><br>Sent from my iPhone</div><div><br>On Aug 19, 2015, at 7:35 PM, <a href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>  
<div id="AOLMsgPart_1_7e03571d-ec10-4ba6-8d77-fb845e6ab42b">  <font size="4"><font face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif">I agree, loose is the way to go with that bushing. The original style also had a chamfered edge on the rear of the inside diameter,<font face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif"> probably to help the insertion of the third motion shaft into that bushing. The nose of the original third motion shaft (rear mainshaft) had a scroll cut into it to help lubrication<font face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif">, but the original bushings were smooth on both inside and out.<br>
 <br>
 <font face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif">I think the factory went to the <font face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif">larger needle style bearing to alleviate the wear issue in the bushing as it allowed the trans to pop out of third gear on decel when that bush<font face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif">ing got worn enough to allow movement at that interface.<br>
<br>
<font face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif">Good luck and check the triangular thrust spa<font face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif">cer at the back of the box for cracks emanating from the corners of the teeth cut into it.<br>
<br>
<font face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif">my bushings are a bit worn as well...<br>
<font face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif">Nick in Nor Cal</font><br>
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font>  
<div style="font-family:Comic Sans MS, sans-serif;color:black;font-size:14pt;"> <br>
 </div>
  
<div> <br>
 </div>
  
<div><br>
 </div>
 -----Original Message-----<br>
 From: rkramer3 &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
 To: Enquiries Road &amp; Track &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; fot &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
 Sent: Wed, Aug 19, 2015 3:01 pm<br>
 Subject: Re: [Fot] early TR3 input shaft question<br>
 <br>
  <br>
  
<div id="AOLMsgPart_0_42480307-7b3e-4dda-89fc-c21f0787460f" style="margin: 0px;font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif;font-size: 12px;color: #000;background-color: #fff;"> <br>
  <br>
 <pre style="font-size: 9pt;"><tt>That's the type of info I was looking for. Thanks Terry <br>
 Bob Kramer <br>
 <a href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> <br>
  <br>
 ---- Enquiries Road &amp; Track &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:  <br>
 &gt; the hard bronze bush system was used on all vanguards and non syncro TR;s. <br>
 &gt; The bush needs to float between main-shaft spigot and input shaft inner, so <br>
 &gt; about 0.003" clearance both inside and outside. we always made them with a <br>
 &gt; deep cut spiral in them to transfer oil. they will feel sloppy and the <br>
 &gt; input shaft will move around, but its no hassle in a race car box that <br>
 &gt; comes apart regularly and is not expected to last 100,000 miles. Use LG3 <br>
 &gt; spec bronze material to make them <br>
 &gt;  <br>
 &gt; Terry <br>
  <br>
<br>
 </tt></pre> <br>
 </div>
   <br>
    </div>
  
</div></blockquote></body></html>
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