Subject: [Fot] Gt6 differential failure

From: Scott Janzen <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2015 08:01:07 -0400

Mine disintegrated in a big way in the last race yesterday at Pitt Race. Last one did the same thing about 3-4 years ago. 
Should I just consider this a consumable item, or swap to something stronger?  What are other vintage racers doing?

Sent from my mobile device 
_______________________________________________
[email-masked]

http://www.fot-racing.com

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 07:47:09 -0400

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its a consumable use good oil...

In a message dated 7/12/2015 12:06:45 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
[email-masked] writes:

Mine  disintegrated in a big way in the last race yesterday at Pitt Race. 
Last one  did the same thing about 3-4 years ago. 
Should I just consider this a  consumable item, or swap to something 
stronger?  What are other vintage  racers doing?

Archive:  http://www.team.net/archive
Forums:  http://www.team.net/forums
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]

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<DIV>its a consumable use good oil...</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 7/12/2015 12:06:45 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,=20
[email-masked] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"=
><FONT=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=3D#000000 size=3D2 face=3D=
Arial>Mine=20
  disintegrated in a big way in the last race yesterday at Pitt Race. Last=
 one=20
  did the same thing about 3-4 years ago. <BR>Should I just consider this=
 a=20
  consumable item, or swap to something stronger?&nbsp; What are other vin=
tage=20
  racers doing?<BR><BR>Sent from my mobile device=20
  <BR>_______________________________________________<BR>[email-masked]=
t<BR><BR>http://www.fot-racing.com<BR><BR>Donate:=20
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From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 20:57:30 -0400

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I started destroying the transmissions when I went to a solid clutch Not so=
 much the diffs.  But I cant tell you how many races I ran with third gear =
teeth on the floor.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Ostrowski <[email-masked]>
To: John Hasty <[email-masked]>
Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' Triumph <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tue, Jul 14, 2015 3:30 pm
Subject: Re: [Fot] Gt6 differential failure

I disagree. For the GT6 race car if you want to go fast that is simply not
true.
Jason Ostrowski=20
Friendly Ghost Racing=20

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 14,
2015, at 3:56 PM, John Hasty <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> Shock loading in
road race conditions is why the guys at SPEC say you should use a clutch di=
sc
with springs
>=20
> Sent from my iPhone
>=20
> On Jul 14, 2015, at 4:19 PM, "Peter
>=20
>
Scott,
> To answer some of your questions.
> Would lower oil temps stops =E2=80=98gear
teeth breaking off=E2=80=99 Short answer NO. However, you should look at th=
e
differential as a complete system.
>=20
> If you had tooth failure It could be due
to a number of things: -
>=20
> 1.       Long Term Use/Operation Fatigue Failure
>

> 2.       High instantaneous/shock loading Failure
>=20
> 3.       Improper
backlash/clearances =E2=80=93 Causing Tooth Failure as a result of incorrec=
t tooth
loading
>=20
> 4.       Improper lubrication/type/grade/flow/level/operating
temperature
>=20
> The beauty of synthetic oils is that it allows the system to
run at MUCH lower temperatures (And operate at higher temps of course) as a
direct result of the synthetic oil being able to FLOW/POUR with less resist=
ance.
Just like mixing a cake! The thicker the mix, the higher the work load requ=
ired
to mix, the more friction, the hotter the mixing temps.
>=20
> The other side of
the coin, in general, Synthetic is that is has LESS mechanical dampening fo=
r
high shock loading than traditional mineral based oils for the same grade
product. Even on synthetic engine oils you will see description such as =E2=
=80=98made
for modern/tight clearances=E2=80=99 etc. etc. Reduced operating clearances=
 and high oil
shearing applications etc. is synthetics domain.
>=20
> So, when you look at the
system as a whole. YES, it=E2=80=99s important to have the oil in its optim=
um
temperature range. BUT all the other factors are equally important. The oil=
 is
not mutually exclusive in the equation.
>=20
> Hope that helps?
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20

>=20
> From: Scott Janzen [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: Tuesday, 14 July 2015
4:44 AM
> To: Peter Vucinic
> Cc: 'Jason Ostrowski'; ''Friends of Triumph'
Triumph'
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Gt6 differential failure
>=20
> so, while I respect
the need proper operating temps, if the failure experienced is not bearing
failure, but simply gear teeth breaking off under load, would lower temps
help?
> I run Redline synthetic.
>=20
> On Jul 13, 2015, at 2:32 PM, Peter Vucinic
wrote:
>=20
>=20
> Get the oil temp down and use full synthetic.
> I did much
testing on my road going TR4 diff. Even a road car, at highway speed cruisi=
ng,
the oil temp is 180-200F.
> With the diff =E2=80=98tucked up=E2=80=99 and limited air flow. You
are starting with a problem before you start!
>=20
>=20
> "You can Make a Small
Fortune From Motor Racing. As long as You Started With A Lage Fortune!"
> Kind
Regards
> Peter Vucinic
> TR4 - TR7 V8 - Spitfire MkII
>
>=20
http://www.fot-racing.com<http://www.fot-racing.com/>
>=20
> Donate:
>=20
>=20
> From: Fot [mailto:[email-masked]]
On Behalf Of Scott Janzen
> Sent: Tuesday, 14 July 2015 12:20 AM
> To: Jason
Ostrowski
> Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' Triumph
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Gt6
differential failure
>=20
> thanks, Jason - yes, I was banging through the gears,
and there's now a steep 150' +/- DROP at this track, downhill turn, where I=
 was
in second gear at 7,000 RPM, first accelerating, then letting it slow me do=
wn as
I approached the sharp right to the uphill climb.  I'm sure that did not do=
 the
diff any good.
>=20
> Somehow the idea of putting a Subaru diff in this car does
not feel very "vintage".
>=20
> Question - has anyone checked the oil temp, and
would cooling make a difference?  I do run Redline 75-85 gear oil.
>=20
> I will
report back and send carnage photos when I get it out.
>=20
> On Jul 13, 2015, at
10:12 AM, Jason Ostrowski wrote:
>=20
> I agree that it is consumable.
> A change
to something different would seem to lead to a redesign of all the parts th=
at
mate to it and that could turn into a whole new set of other related projec=
ts.
Likely a costly and complex endeavor to say the least.
> Knowing you, I assume
you are using a quality oil already as Steve recommends.
> I notice you are
racing faster lately and seem to be doing great with the car.
>=20
> Begin Public
Service announcement to all FoT...
>=20
> That being said, (especially the faster
you go) don't forget to remind yourself regularly about how you need to tre=
at
the drivetrain.
> Perhaps most importantly on this issue is careful driving with
a constant focus to smooth transition between the gears.
> And really important
is super smooth take-offs.
> I'm lucky to have John Reed (best GT6 racer of all
time) at the track with me most of the time.
> He is never afraid to remind me
of this.
> And does so on a regular basis when I'm leaving the grid.
> Even
after all these years of coaching he will still often yell at me through my
helmet prior to taking off.
> something like....
> "Ride that F$#&%ng clutch
baby!!"
> or "Easy take off".
> Wisdom I'm not afraid to admit I need to be
reminded of in a tense moment taking off to hit the track.
> One slip of the
foot or abrupt start is all it takes to do damage to the differential.
> I can
trace most of my differential failures back to sketchy shift transitions or
abrupt starts...
> We all hate to admit that an equipment failure is our own
fault but, speaking for myself, I know it often is.
> This was an FoT Public
Service Announcement...
> Brought to you by Friendly Ghost Racing.
>=20
> Jason
Ostrowski
> Friendly Ghost Racing
> 1969 Triumph GT6+ Racecars
>=20
>=20
> On Sun,
>>
wrote:
> Mine disintegrated in a big way in the last race yesterday at Pitt
Race. Last one did the same thing about 3-4 years ago.
> Should I just consider
this a consumable item, or swap to something stronger?  What are other vint=
age
racers doing?
>=20
>=20
http://www.fot-racing.com<http://www.fot-racing.com/>
>=20
> Donate:
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20

>=20

> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>=20

Donate:
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums:
http://www.team.net/forums
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]

=20

------=_Part_69030_1781498383.1436921850278
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<font color=3D'black' size=3D'2' face=3D'arial'>I started destroying the tr=
ansmissions when I went to a solid clutch Not so much the diffs. &nbsp;But =
I cant tell you how many races I ran with third gear teeth on the floor.<br=
<br>
<br>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br>
From: Jason Ostrowski &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
To: John Hasty &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' Triumph &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Sent: Tue, Jul 14, 2015 3:30 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Gt6 differential failure<br>
<br>

<div id=3D"AOLMsgPart_1_9be6541d-45cc-4f8f-87cf-f18e09f2e5fe" style=3D"marg=
in: 0px;font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif;font-size: 12px;col=
or: #000;background-color: #fff;">

<pre style=3D"font-size: 9pt;"><tt>I disagree. For the GT6 race car if you =
want to go fast that is simply not
true.
Jason Ostrowski=20
Friendly Ghost Racing=20

Sent from my iPhone

&gt; On Jul 14,
2015, at 3:56 PM, John Hasty &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">jhas=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;=20
&gt; Shock loading in
road race conditions is why the guys at SPEC say you should use a clutch di=
sc
with springs
&gt;=20
&gt; Sent from my iPhone
&gt;=20
&gt; On Jul 14, 2015, at 4:19 PM, "Peter
Vucinic" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">pvucinic@netspace.=
net.au</a>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]?">mailto:pvucinic@=
netspace.net.au</a>&gt;&gt; wrote:
&gt;=20
&gt;
Scott,
&gt; To answer some of your questions.
&gt; Would lower oil temps stops =E2=80=98gear
teeth breaking off=E2=80=99 Short answer NO. However, you should look at th=
e
differential as a complete system.
&gt;=20
&gt; If you had tooth failure It could be due
to a number of things: -
&gt;=20
&gt; 1.       Long Term Use/Operation Fatigue Failure
&gt;

&gt; 2.       High instantaneous/shock loading Failure
&gt;=20
&gt; 3.       Improper
backlash/clearances =E2=80=93 Causing Tooth Failure as a result of incorrec=
t tooth
loading
&gt;=20
&gt; 4.       Improper lubrication/type/grade/flow/level/operating
temperature
&gt;=20
&gt; The beauty of synthetic oils is that it allows the system to
run at MUCH lower temperatures (And operate at higher temps of course) as a
direct result of the synthetic oil being able to FLOW/POUR with less resist=
ance.
Just like mixing a cake! The thicker the mix, the higher the work load requ=
ired
to mix, the more friction, the hotter the mixing temps.
&gt;=20
&gt; The other side of
the coin, in general, Synthetic is that is has LESS mechanical dampening fo=
r
high shock loading than traditional mineral based oils for the same grade
product. Even on synthetic engine oils you will see description such as =E2=
=80=98made
for modern/tight clearances=E2=80=99 etc. etc. Reduced operating clearances=
 and high oil
shearing applications etc. is synthetics domain.
&gt;=20
&gt; So, when you look at the
system as a whole. YES, it=E2=80=99s important to have the oil in its optim=
um
temperature range. BUT all the other factors are equally important. The oil=
 is
not mutually exclusive in the equation.
&gt;=20
&gt; Hope that helps?
&gt;=20
&gt;=20
&gt;=20
&gt;=20
&gt;=20
&gt;

&gt;=20
&gt; From: Scott Janzen [<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]?">mailto:sjanzen@=
me.com</a>]
&gt; Sent: Tuesday, 14 July 2015
4:44 AM
&gt; To: Peter Vucinic
&gt; Cc: 'Jason Ostrowski'; ''Friends of Triumph'
Triumph'
&gt; Subject: Re: [Fot] Gt6 differential failure
&gt;=20
&gt; so, while I respect
the need proper operating temps, if the failure experienced is not bearing
failure, but simply gear teeth breaking off under load, would lower temps
help?
&gt; I run Redline synthetic.
&gt;=20
&gt; On Jul 13, 2015, at 2:32 PM, Peter Vucinic
wrote:
&gt;=20
&gt;=20
&gt; Get the oil temp down and use full synthetic.
&gt; I did much
testing on my road going TR4 diff. Even a road car, at highway speed cruisi=
ng,
the oil temp is 180-200F.
&gt; With the diff =E2=80=98tucked up=E2=80=99 and limited air flow. You
are starting with a problem before you start!
&gt;=20
&gt;=20
&gt; "You can Make a Small
Fortune From Motor Racing. As long as You Started With A Lage Fortune!"
&gt; Kind
Regards
&gt; Peter Vucinic
&gt; TR4 - TR7 V8 - Spitfire MkII
&gt;
_______________________________________________
&gt;
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:[email-masked]?">mailto:[email-masked]</a>&gt;
&gt;=20
&gt;
<a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com&lt;http://www.fot-racing.com/" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com&lt;http://www.fot-racing.com/</a>&gt;
&gt;=20
&gt; Donate:
<a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.te=
am.net/donate.html</a>
&gt; Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://www.team.net/archive</a>
&gt; Forums:
<a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.ne=
t/forums</a>
&gt;=20
&gt;=20
&gt; From: Fot [<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]?">mailto:fot-b=
[email-masked]</a>]
On Behalf Of Scott Janzen
&gt; Sent: Tuesday, 14 July 2015 12:20 AM
&gt; To: Jason
Ostrowski
&gt; Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' Triumph
&gt; Subject: Re: [Fot] Gt6
differential failure
&gt;=20
&gt; thanks, Jason - yes, I was banging through the gears,
and there's now a steep 150' +/- DROP at this track, downhill turn, where I=
 was
in second gear at 7,000 RPM, first accelerating, then letting it slow me do=
wn as
I approached the sharp right to the uphill climb.  I'm sure that did not do=
 the
diff any good.
&gt;=20
&gt; Somehow the idea of putting a Subaru diff in this car does
not feel very "vintage".
&gt;=20
&gt; Question - has anyone checked the oil temp, and
would cooling make a difference?  I do run Redline 75-85 gear oil.
&gt;=20
&gt; I will
report back and send carnage photos when I get it out.
&gt;=20
&gt; On Jul 13, 2015, at
10:12 AM, Jason Ostrowski wrote:
&gt;=20
&gt; I agree that it is consumable.
&gt; A change
to something different would seem to lead to a redesign of all the parts th=
at
mate to it and that could turn into a whole new set of other related projec=
ts.
&gt;
Likely a costly and complex endeavor to say the least.
&gt; Knowing you, I assume
you are using a quality oil already as Steve recommends.
&gt; I notice you are
racing faster lately and seem to be doing great with the car.
&gt;=20
&gt; Begin Public
Service announcement to all FoT...
&gt;=20
&gt; That being said, (especially the faster
you go) don't forget to remind yourself regularly about how you need to tre=
at
the drivetrain.
&gt; Perhaps most importantly on this issue is careful driving with
a constant focus to smooth transition between the gears.
&gt; And really important
is super smooth take-offs.
&gt; I'm lucky to have John Reed (best GT6 racer of all
time) at the track with me most of the time.
&gt; He is never afraid to remind me
of this.
&gt; And does so on a regular basis when I'm leaving the grid.
&gt; Even
after all these years of coaching he will still often yell at me through my
helmet prior to taking off.
&gt; something like....
&gt; "Ride that F$#&amp;%ng clutch
baby!!"
&gt; or "Easy take off".
&gt; Wisdom I'm not afraid to admit I need to be
reminded of in a tense moment taking off to hit the track.
&gt; One slip of the
foot or abrupt start is all it takes to do damage to the differential.
&gt; I can
trace most of my differential failures back to sketchy shift transitions or
abrupt starts...
&gt; We all hate to admit that an equipment failure is our own
fault but, speaking for myself, I know it often is.
&gt; This was an FoT Public
Service Announcement...
&gt; Brought to you by Friendly Ghost Racing.
&gt;=20
&gt; Jason
Ostrowski
&gt; Friendly Ghost Racing
&gt; 1969 Triumph GT6+ Racecars
&gt;=20
&gt;=20
&gt; On Sun,
Jul 12, 2015 at 7:01 AM, Scott Janzen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
>[email-masked]</a>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]?">mailto:sjanzen@me=
.com</a>&gt;&gt;
wrote:
&gt; Mine disintegrated in a big way in the last race yesterday at Pitt
Race. Last one did the same thing about 3-4 years ago.
&gt; Should I just consider
this a consumable item, or swap to something stronger?  What are other vint=
age
racers doing?
&gt;=20
&gt; Sent from my mobile device
&gt;
_______________________________________________
&gt;
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:[email-masked]?">mailto:[email-masked]</a>&gt;
&gt;=20
&gt;
<a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com&lt;http://www.fot-racing.com/" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com&lt;http://www.fot-racing.com/</a>&gt;
&gt;=20
&gt; Donate:
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am.net/donate.html</a>
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p://www.team.net/archive</a>
&gt; Forums:
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t/forums</a>
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" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jason@multivi=
ntage.com</a>
&gt;=20
&gt;=20
&gt;=20
&gt;=20
&gt;

&gt; _______________________________________________
&gt;
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:[email-masked]?">mailto:[email-masked]</a>&gt;
&gt;=20
&gt; <a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot=
-racing.com</a>
&gt;

&gt; Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">=
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rget=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]=
m</a>
&gt;=20
&gt;=20
&gt;
_______________________________________________
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>
&gt;=20
&gt;
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ng.com</a>
&gt;=20
&gt; Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">=
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&gt;

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t/forums</a>
<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]" targ=
et=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a=

</tt></pre>
</div>
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From: Jason Ostrowski <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 22:43:38 -0500

--===============8166729377092547822==

--001a11c324f8a21944051ae1c2ea
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I've destroyed both in numerous quantities.
but same here; way more trans's
So, John: in fairness, (to clarify and explain) We suppose you are actually
right!
But only in terms of longevity.

A GT6 with a stock style (spring) clutch will never be a front runner. at
least in the group I run with.
Steve and I have always wanted to win (and several dudes who came before
us)...
A few of us Fot'ers own some of the fastest GT6's out there.
Steve Smith can take credit for some very advanced development of our GT6
marque.
I have been a life-long follower of the marque and have studied what works
in these cars for many years.

My point here is that if you want to go fast in GT6; a spring style clutch
is not the proper choice.
This particular development goes back to the early 1970's.
The dual disk clutch setup I have in BOTH my cars goes back to before TILTO=
N
even existed.
When I inquired with Tilton about replacing my broken unit a few years ago
they said I likely had one of the first production dual disk units ever
made for this type car.
Probably from 1973 or 1974.
AP made them first; which eventually became Tilton.

The GT6 is strange animal.
Few really understand it.
It has a motor of supreme power compared to its Triumph predecessors.
But the rest of the car was essentially built with parts from earlier
Triumph cars.

That's why most of the fast ones have all kinds of trick and custom stuff..=
.
because that's the only way to get that competitive edge with a GT6.

At the same time, that's why the GT6 gets a bad rap and has a limited
following,
Because the stuff it is made of was designed for cars that had way less
power.
They are fragile and a real challenge to keep them going quick.
>From the very beginning, If you wanted to go fast in a GT6 you had a tough
road ahead of you.

The factory teams that had unlimited parts for replacement; and did so
regularly.

For my part of the contribution to the GT6 Marque,
I made it my own strange quest to find and own two of the oldest and most
raced GT6's in this small historical niche.
Because I loved the fact (and needed the parts therein) that they have the
most ongoing and critical developments.

Now each one of my cars is copying the other one for better performance.
And I am continuing to make them both better.
And I can say with confidence (Not Withstanding Other Critical Developments=
)
It is good to have a dual Disk 7.25in Tilton Clutch.

Jason Ostrowski
Friendly Ghost Racing

On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 7:57 PM, <[email-masked]> wrote:

> I started destroying the transmissions when I went to a solid clutch Not
> so much the diffs.  But I cant tell you how many races I ran with third
> gear teeth on the floor.
>
>
>  I disagree. For the GT6 race car if you want to go fast that is simply n=
ot
> Jason Ostrowski
> road race conditions is why the guys at SPEC say you should use a clutch =
disc
[email-masked]?>>> wrote:
> teeth breaking off=E2=80=99 Short answer NO. However, you should look at =
the
> backlash/clearances =E2=80=93 Causing Tooth Failure as a result of incorr=
ect tooth
> run at MUCH lower temperatures (And operate at higher temps of course) as=
 a
> direct result of the synthetic oil being able to FLOW/POUR with less resi=
stance.
> Just like mixing a cake! The thicker the mix, the higher the work load re=
quired
> the coin, in general, Synthetic is that is has LESS mechanical dampening =
for
> product. Even on synthetic engine oils you will see description such as =
=E2=80=98made
> for modern/tight clearances=E2=80=99 etc. etc. Reduced operating clearanc=
es and high oil
> system as a whole. YES, it=E2=80=99s important to have the oil in its opt=
imum
> temperature range. BUT all the other factors are equally important. The o=
il is
> > From: Scott Janzen [mailto:[email-masked] <[email-masked]?>]
> the need proper operating temps, if the failure experienced is not bearin=
g
> testing on my road going TR4 diff. Even a road car, at highway speed crui=
sing,
> > Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Forums:http://www.team.net/forums
> >
> >
> > From: Fot [mailto:[email-masked] <[email-masked]=
t?>]
> and there's now a steep 150' +/- DROP at this track, downhill turn, where=
 I was
> in second gear at 7,000 RPM, first accelerating, then letting it slow me =
down as
> I approached the sharp right to the uphill climb.  I'm sure that did not =
do the
> to something different would seem to lead to a redesign of all the parts =
that
> mate to it and that could turn into a whole new set of other related proj=
ects.
> you go) don't forget to remind yourself regularly about how you need to t=
reat
> after all these years of coaching he will still often yell at me through =
my
> trace most of my differential failures back to sketchy shift transitions =
or
> > 1969 Triumph GT6+ Racecars
om <[email-masked]?>>>
> this a consumable item, or swap to something stronger?  What are other vi=
ntage
> > Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Forums:http://www.team.net/forums
> > Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jason@mult=
ivintage.com
> > Archive:http://www.team.net/archive
> Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhasty@mhc-l=
aw.com
> Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jason@multiv=
intage.com
> >
> >
>
> [email-masked]
> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Forums:http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:

--001a11c324f8a21944051ae1c2ea
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I&#39;ve destroyed both in numerous quantities. </div=
><div>but same here;=C2=A0way more <span tabindex=3D"-1" id=3D":1jc.1">tran=
s&#39;s</span></div><div>So, John: in fairness,=C2=A0(to clarify and explai=
n) We suppose you are actually right!</div><div>But only=C2=A0in terms of=
=C2=A0longevity.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>A=C2=A0GT6 with a stock sty=
le (spring) clutch will never be a front runner. at least in the group I ru=
n with.</div><div>Steve and I have always wanted to win (and several dudes =
who came before us)...</div><div>A=C2=A0few of us=C2=A0Fot&#39;ers=C2=A0own=
 some of the fastest GT6&#39;s out there.</div><div>Steve Smith can take cr=
edit for some very advanced development of our GT6 marque.</div><div>I have=
 been a life-long=C2=A0follower of the marque and have studied what works i=
n these cars for many years.</div><div><br></div><div>My point here is that=
 if you want to go fast in GT6;=C2=A0a spring style clutch is not the prope=
r choice.</div><div>This particular development goes back to the early 1970=
&#39;s.</div><div>The=C2=A0dual disk clutch setup=C2=A0I have in BOTH my ca=
rs goes back to before <span tabindex=3D"-1" id=3D":1jc.2">TILTON</span> ev=
en existed.</div><div>When I inquired=C2=A0with=C2=A0<span tabindex=3D"-1" =
id=3D":1jc.3">Tilton</span> about=C2=A0replacing my broken unit a few years=
 ago they said I likely had one of the first production dual disk units eve=
r made for this type=C2=A0car.</div><div>Probably from 1973 or 1974.=C2=A0<=
/div><div>AP made them first;=C2=A0which eventually became <span tabindex=
=3D"-1" id=3D":1jc.4">Tilton</span>.=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>T=
he GT6 is strange animal.</div><div>Few really understand it.</div><div>It =
has a motor of supreme power compared to its Triumph predecessors.</div><di=
v>But the rest of the car was essentially built with parts from earlier Tri=
umph cars.</div><div><br></div><div>That&#39;s why most of the fast ones ha=
ve all kinds of trick and custom stuff...</div><div>because that&#39;s the =
only way to get that competitive edge with a GT6.</div><div><br></div><div>=
At the same time, that&#39;s why the GT6 gets a bad rap and has a limited f=
ollowing,</div><div>Because the stuff it is made of was designed for cars t=
hat had way less power.</div><div>They are fragile and a real challenge to =
keep them going quick.</div><div>From the very beginning, If you wanted to =
go fast in a GT6 you had a tough road ahead of you.</div><div><br></div><di=
v>The factory teams that had unlimited parts=C2=A0for replacement; and did =
so regularly.</div><div><br></div><div>For my part of the contribution to t=
he GT6 Marque,</div><div>I made it my own strange=C2=A0quest to find and ow=
n two of the oldest and most raced GT6&#39;s in this small historical niche=
.</div><div>Because I=C2=A0loved the fact (and needed the parts therein)=C2=
=A0that they have the most ongoing and critical developments.</div><div><br=
></div><div>Now each one of my cars is copying the other one=C2=A0for bette=
r performance.</div><div>And I am continuing to make them both better.</div=
><div>And I can say with=C2=A0confidence (Not Withstanding Other Critical D=
evelopments)</div><div>It is=C2=A0good to have a dual Disk 7.25in=C2=A0Tilt=
on Clutch.</div><div><br></div><div>Jason Ostrowski</div><div>Friendly Ghos=
t Racing </div><div>1969 Triumph GT6+ Racecars=C2=A0</div></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 7:5=
7 PM,  <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"=
_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmai=
l_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left=
:1ex"><font color=3D"black" face=3D"arial" size=3D"2">I started destroying =
the transmissions when I went to a solid clutch Not so much the diffs.=C2=
=A0 But I cant tell you how many races I ran with third gear teeth on the f=
loor.<br>
<br>
<br>

<div style=3D"color:black;font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt"><div>=
<div class=3D"h5">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Jason Ostrowski &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=
=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
To: John Hasty &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: &#39;Friends of Triumph&#39; Triumph &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
am.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
Sent: Tue, Jul 14, 2015 3:30 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Gt6 differential failure<br>
<br>

</div></div><div style=3D"margin:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Tahoma,Ve=
rdana,Arial,Sans-Serif;font-size:12px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">

<pre style=3D"font-size:9pt"><tt><div><div class=3D"h5">I disagree. For the=
 GT6 race car if you want to go fast that is simply not
true.
Jason Ostrowski=20
Friendly Ghost Racing=20

Sent from my iPhone

&gt; On Jul 14,
2015, at 3:56 PM, John Hasty &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" targ=
et=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;=20
&gt; Shock loading in
road race conditions is why the guys at SPEC say you should use a clutch di=
sc
with springs
&gt;=20
&gt; Sent from my iPhone
&gt;=20
&gt; On Jul 14, 2015, at 4:19 PM, &quot;Peter
Vucinic&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_bl=
ank">[email-masked]</a>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
t.au?" target=3D"_blank">mailto:[email-masked]</a>&gt;&gt; wrote:
&gt;=20
&gt;
Scott,
&gt; To answer some of your questions.
&gt; Would lower oil temps stops =E2=80=98gear
teeth breaking off=E2=80=99 Short answer NO. However, you should look at th=
e
differential as a complete system.
&gt;=20
&gt; If you had tooth failure It could be due
to a number of things: -
&gt;=20
&gt; 1.       Long Term Use/Operation Fatigue Failure
&gt;

&gt;=20
&gt; From: Scott Janzen [<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]?" target=3D"_blan=
k">mailto:[email-masked]</a>]
&gt; Sent: Tuesday, 14 July 2015
4:44 AM
&gt; To: Peter Vucinic
&gt; Cc: &#39;Jason Ostrowski&#39;; &#39;&#39;Friends of Triumph&#39;
Triumph&#39;
&gt; Subject: Re: [Fot] Gt6 differential failure
&gt;=20
&gt; so, while I respect
the need proper operating temps, if the failure experienced is not bearing
failure, but simply gear teeth breaking off under load, would lower temps
help?
&gt; I run Redline synthetic.
&gt;=20
&gt; On Jul 13, 2015, at 2:32 PM, Peter Vucinic
wrote:
&gt;=20
&gt;=20
&gt; Get the oil temp down and use full synthetic.
&gt; I did much
testing on my road going TR4 diff. Even a road car, at highway speed cruisi=
ng,
the oil temp is 180-200F.
&gt; With the diff =E2=80=98tucked up=E2=80=99 and limited air flow. You
are starting with a problem before you start!
&gt;=20
&gt;=20
&gt; &quot;You can Make a Small
Fortune From Motor Racing. As long as You Started With A Lage Fortune!&quot=
;
&gt; Kind
Regards
&gt; Peter Vucinic
&gt; TR4 - TR7 V8 - Spitfire MkII
&gt;
_______________________________________________
&gt;
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]<=
/a>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]?" target=3D"_blank">mailto:fot@=
autox.team.net</a>&gt;
&gt;=20
&gt;
<a>http://www.fot-racing.com&lt;http://www.fot-racing.com/</a>&gt;
&gt;=20
&gt; Donate:
<a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.te=
am.net/donate.html</a>
&gt; Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://www.team.net/archive</a>
&gt; Forums:
<a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.ne=
t/forums</a>
&gt;=20
&gt;=20
&gt; From: Fot [<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]?" target=3D"_b=
lank">mailto:[email-masked]</a>]
On Behalf Of Scott Janzen
&gt; Sent: Tuesday, 14 July 2015 12:20 AM
&gt; To: Jason
Ostrowski
&gt; Cc: &#39;Friends of Triumph&#39; Triumph
&gt; Subject: Re: [Fot] Gt6
differential failure
&gt;=20
&gt; thanks, Jason - yes, I was banging through the gears,
and there&#39;s now a steep 150&#39; +/- DROP at this track, downhill turn,=
 where I was
in second gear at 7,000 RPM, first accelerating, then letting it slow me do=
wn as
I approached the sharp right to the uphill climb.  I&#39;m sure that did no=
t do the
diff any good.
&gt;=20
&gt; Somehow the idea of putting a Subaru diff in this car does
not feel very &quot;vintage&quot;.
&gt;=20
&gt; Question - has anyone checked the oil temp, and
would cooling make a difference?  I do run Redline 75-85 gear oil.
&gt;=20
&gt; I will
report back and send carnage photos when I get it out.
&gt;=20
&gt; On Jul 13, 2015, at
10:12 AM, Jason Ostrowski wrote:
&gt;=20
&gt; I agree that it is consumable.
&gt; A change
to something different would seem to lead to a redesign of all the parts th=
at
mate to it and that could turn into a whole new set of other related projec=
ts.
&gt;
Likely a costly and complex endeavor to say the least.
&gt; Knowing you, I assume
you are using a quality oil already as Steve recommends.
&gt; I notice you are
racing faster lately and seem to be doing great with the car.
&gt;=20
&gt; Begin Public
Service announcement to all FoT...
&gt;=20
&gt; That being said, (especially the faster
you go) don&#39;t forget to remind yourself regularly about how you need to=
 treat
the drivetrain.
&gt; Perhaps most importantly on this issue is careful driving with
a constant focus to smooth transition between the gears.
&gt; And really important
is super smooth take-offs.
&gt; I&#39;m lucky to have John Reed (best GT6 racer of all
time) at the track with me most of the time.
&gt; He is never afraid to remind me
of this.
&gt; And does so on a regular basis when I&#39;m leaving the grid.
&gt; Even
after all these years of coaching he will still often yell at me through my
helmet prior to taking off.
&gt; something like....
&gt; &quot;Ride that F$#&amp;%ng clutch
baby!!&quot;
&gt; or &quot;Easy take off&quot;.
&gt; Wisdom I&#39;m not afraid to admit I need to be
reminded of in a tense moment taking off to hit the track.
&gt; One slip of the
foot or abrupt start is all it takes to do damage to the differential.
&gt; I can
trace most of my differential failures back to sketchy shift transitions or
abrupt starts...
&gt; We all hate to admit that an equipment failure is our own
fault but, speaking for myself, I know it often is.
&gt; This was an FoT Public
Service Announcement...
&gt; Brought to you by Friendly Ghost Racing.
&gt;=20
&gt; Jason
Ostrowski
&gt; Friendly Ghost Racing
&gt; 1969 Triumph GT6+ Racecars
&gt;=20
&gt;=20
&gt; On Sun,
Jul 12, 2015 at 7:01 AM, Scott Janzen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
 target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]?"=
 target=3D"_blank">mailto:[email-masked]</a>&gt;&gt;
wrote:
&gt; Mine disintegrated in a big way in the last race yesterday at Pitt
Race. Last one did the same thing about 3-4 years ago.
&gt; Should I just consider
this a consumable item, or swap to something stronger?  What are other vint=
age
racers doing?
&gt;=20
&gt; Sent from my mobile device
&gt;
_______________________________________________
&gt;
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]<=
/a>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]?" target=3D"_blank">mailto:fot@=
autox.team.net</a>&gt;
&gt;=20
&gt;
<a>http://www.fot-racing.com&lt;http://www.fot-racing.com/</a>&gt;
&gt;=20
&gt; Donate:
<a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.te=
am.net/donate.html</a>
&gt; Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://www.team.net/archive</a>
&gt; Forums:
<a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.ne=
t/forums</a>
&gt; Unsubscribe/Manage:
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" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jason@multivi=
ntage.com</a>
&gt;=20
&gt;=20
&gt;=20
&gt;=20
&gt;

&gt; _______________________________________________
&gt;
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]<=
/a>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]?" target=3D"_blank">mailto:fot@=
autox.team.net</a>&gt;
&gt;=20
&gt; <a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot=
-racing.com</a>
&gt;

&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
.net</a>

_______________________________________________
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]<=
/a>

Donate:
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t/forums</a>
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ol.com" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gt6stev=
[email-masked]</a>

</tt></pre>
</div>
=20
</div>
</font></blockquote></div><br></div>

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