Subject: Re: [Fot] Racing rod design

From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 19:31:20 +0000

Chris,http://webmail.roadrunner.com/do/mail/message/reply?msgId=INBOXDELIM68586&replyAll=on&referrer=msg#

Look at Pauter Rods. they advertise their design as an x-beam. I can't say that they are any better based on long term use but a lot of us switched over due to the increase cost of Carillo's over time.

http://pauter.com/parts/rods/

It just occured to me that you are probably running a custom crank, Chevy rods with custom pistons to match. They may make comparable models to fit that too since I believe that setup was designed around the rods.

http://webmail.roadrunner.com/do/mail/message/reply?msgId=INBOXDELIM68586&replyAll=on&referrer=msg#
Bob Kramer
[email-masked]

---- MadMarx <[email-masked]> wrote: 
> Hi Guys,
> 
>  
> 
> After my engine blow at the last race and a rod in two pieces I investigated about rod design.
> 
>  
> 
> In US forums I found an interesting opinion:
> 
>  
> 
> H-beam rods are for low rev high torque engine (turbo, compressor)
> 
> I-beam are for medium torque engines with high revs
> 
>  
> 
> As engineer I agree with this statement. On high revs the rod shaft gets bended back and forth by the inertia caused by the rotation.
> 
> I could imagine that the sharp sides of the H-beam rod will create a crack after a while because the stiffness for bending along the rotation axis smaller than with an I-beam rod.
> 
> That means to me that the fatigue resistance is smaller on an H-beam rod at high revs.
> 
> With high revs on a long stroke engine I mean 6000+.
> 
>  
> 
> The manufacturer of the broken H-beam rod was Scat.
> 
>  
> 
> I think next time I order an I-beam rod from Scat.
> 
>  
> 
> What do you think?
> 
>  
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Chris
> 

_______________________________________________
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Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

---

From: "Marcel Van Mulders" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 19:31:40 +0200

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Marcel Van Mulders [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Verzonden: woensdag 22 juli 2015 19:29
Aan: 'MadMarx'
Onderwerp: RE: [Fot] Racing rod design

Hi Chris and Bob,
As you know, I bought Bob's TR4A and I did have a look at the rods : Pauter
may call these rods X-beam but they actually are H-beam rods, much the same
design as the H-beam rods of Carrillo. (b.t.w. Carrillo's I beam rods are
less expensive than their H-beam one's). 
Marcel 

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Fot [mailto:[email-masked]] Namens MadMarx
Verzonden: dinsdag 21 juli 2015 21:39
Aan: 'FOT'
Onderwerp: Re: [Fot] Racing rod design

Hi Bob,

from engineer basis x-beam are the worst you can get. I'll never get a clue
how someone could imagine this design.

Cheers
Chris

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
Gesendet: Dienstag, 21. Juli 2015 21:31
An: 'FOT'; MadMarx
Betreff: Re: [Fot] Racing rod design

Chris,http://webmail.roadrunner.com/do/mail/message/reply?msgId=INBOXDELIM68
586&replyAll=on&referrer=msg#

Look at Pauter Rods. they advertise their design as an x-beam. I can't say
that they are any better based on long term use but a lot of us switched
over due to the increase cost of Carillo's over time.

It just occured to me that you are probably running a custom crank, Chevy
rods with custom pistons to match. They may make comparable models to fit
that too since I believe that setup was designed around the rods.

http://webmail.roadrunner.com/do/mail/message/reply?msgId=INBOXDELIM68586&re
plyAll=on&referrer=msg#
Bob Kramer
[email-masked]

---- MadMarx <[email-masked]> wrote: 
> As engineer I agree with this statement. On high revs the rod shaft gets
bended back and forth by the inertia caused by the rotation.
> 
> I could imagine that the sharp sides of the H-beam rod will create a crack
after a while because the stiffness for bending along the rotation axis
smaller than with an I-beam rod.

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]

eam.net

---

From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 20:32:04 +0000

Marcel,

Those are Carillo's on a TR spec Moldex crank spinning Wieseco pistons.  

I did buy some Pauters but they are in another engine and haven't been tested as hard as the Carillos. I still have a TR4 race car that my son drives and the Pauters are in that engine. It has a camshaft of unknown origin that builds power between 2500- 5500.

Bob Kramer
[email-masked]

---- Marcel Van Mulders <[email-masked]> wrote: 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
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From: "Marcel Van Mulders" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 23:24:47 +0200

Bob,
That makes things clear.
I still use the Carrillo's that I bought when I startet racing my TR3A in
2002. About everything broke once or more, except those Carrillo's. The
original Triumph conrods can fail, but probably Carrillo and also Pauter
rods have an easy time in our racecars?
Marcel

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Verzonden: woensdag 22 juli 2015 22:32
Aan: Marcel Van Mulders; 'MadMarx'
CC: [email-masked]
Onderwerp: Re: FW: [Fot] Racing rod design

Marcel,

I did buy some Pauters but they are in another engine and haven't been
tested as hard as the Carillos. I still have a TR4 race car that my son
drives and the Pauters are in that engine. It has a camshaft of unknown
origin that builds power between 2500- 5500.

Bob Kramer
[email-masked]

---- Marcel Van Mulders <[email-masked]> wrote: 
> As you know, I bought Bob's TR4A and I did have a look at the rods : 
> Pauter may call these rods X-beam but they actually are H-beam rods, 
> much the same design as the H-beam rods of Carrillo. (b.t.w. 
> Carrillo's I beam rods are less expensive than their H-beam one's).
> Marcel
> 
> from engineer basis x-beam are the worst you can get. I'll never get a 
> clue how someone could imagine this design.
> 
> Cheers
> Chris
> 
> Look at Pauter Rods. they advertise their design as an x-beam. I can't 
> say that they are any better based on long term use but a lot of us 
> switched over due to the increase cost of Carillo's over time.
> 
> It just occured to me that you are probably running a custom crank, 
> Chevy rods with custom pistons to match. They may make comparable 
> models to fit that too since I believe that setup was designed around the
rods.
> after a while because the stiffness for bending along the rotation 
> axis smaller than with an I-beam rod.
> > 
> > That means to me that the fatigue resistance is smaller on an H-beam 
> > rod
> at high revs.
> >

---

From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 22:32:00 +0000

Marcel.

I had a spectacular blow up at Mosport one year, in front of Kas and the whole FOT gang. Those were the last stock rods I ever used. LAter I went to the Moldex and other than a crack in a journal on a crank on a Moldex after running it too hard and hitting 8 grand a  few times, I have avoided breakage. I prefer it that way and now I am concerned about those Pauters I bought. Thanks Chris!

Bob Kramer
[email-masked]

---

From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 13:15:54 +0000

Chris,

No worries. Others have been running the Pauters very hard with good results. I suspect that both the H-Beam and I-Beam designs, as well as the Pauter "cross-beam (an inside-out H beam)" are by design more than strong enough for our engines but like any product we buy there are going to be some random quality control problems, and rod bolt breakage. That said, I would be scared of putting those rods that are made in China in my engines.

This has been a healthy discussion and I have learned something. I got my first set of Carillo's with the engine that came in the car Marcel's now has. When I bought that hulk for restoration it had a mixed set of Carillos inside with one rod replaced with a slightly different, newer Carillo. I concluded that the set would be unreliable and I replaced them with new ones. They might be fine with new, rod bolts.

Bob Kramer
[email-masked]

---- MadMarx <[email-masked]> wrote: 
> Hi Bob,
> 
> I'm sorry to worry you, that wasn't my intention.
> But maths doesn't lie. Must be a reason why high volume car producer make all rods of the same pattern. It would be a lot cheaper to make them a square type or Carrillo H-beam typ then the I-beam version you find in all cars. I-beam is the best pattern to handle the forces in an piston engine.
> 
> Cheers
> Chris
> 
> 
> Von: Fot [mailto:[email-masked]] Im Auftrag von [email-masked]
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 23. Juli 2015 00:32
> An: Marcel Van Mulders
> Cc: [email-masked]
> Betreff: Re: [Fot] FW: Racing rod design
> 
> Marcel.
> 
> > I still use the Carrillo's that I bought when I startet racing my TR3A 
> > in 2002. About everything broke once or more, except those Carrillo's. 
> > The original Triumph conrods can fail, but probably Carrillo and also 
> > Pauter rods have an easy time in our racecars?
> > Marcel
> > 
> > tested as hard as the Carillos. I still have a TR4 race car that my 
> > son drives and the Pauters are in that engine. It has a camshaft of 
> > unknown origin that builds power between 2500- 5500.
> > 
> > Bob Kramer
> > [email-masked]
> > 
> > > from engineer basis x-beam are the worst you can get. I'll never get 
> > > a clue how someone could imagine this design.
> > > 
> > > Cheers
> > > Chris
> > > 
> > > Chris,http://webmail.roadrunner.com/do/mail/message/reply?msgId=INBO
> > > XD
> > > ELIM68
> > > Look at Pauter Rods. they advertise their design as an x-beam. I 
> > > can't say that they are any better based on long term use but a lot 
> > > of us switched over due to the increase cost of Carillo's over time.
> > > 
> > > http://webmail.roadrunner.com/do/mail/message/reply?msgId=INBOXDELIM
> > > 68
> > > 586&re
> > > plyAll=on&referrer=msg#
> > > Bob Kramer
> > > [email-masked]
> > > 
> > > > That means to me that the fatigue resistance is smaller on an 
> > > > H-beam rod
> > > at high revs.
> > > > 
> > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/van.mulders.marcel@telenet
> > > .b
> > > e
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
> 
> 
>

---

From: fubog1 <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 15:29:56 -0400

--===============1306985520609800573==
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

In addition to the rotating mass issues, the recip weight inertial forces c=
reate heavy tensile loads in the rods & bending loads in the crank @ TDC hi=
gh rpm...
FWIW
Glen

=20

=20

=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Aaron <[email-masked]>
To: fot <[email-masked]>
Sent: Thu, Jul 23, 2015 2:15 pm
Subject: Re: [Fot] Racing rod design

=20
I guess I'm confused.  How much worse is the stroke of a tr4.  =20
=20
 =20
=20
=20
In my spitfire 1500 we use stock rods and a stock crank shaft and shift poi=
nt is 7200 rpm. Guys using the moldex cranks and forged rods are getting 85=
00 or so.   And these are the pauter x style. =20
=20
 =20
=20
=20
Are you sure the initial failure was the rod and not something before that?=
 =20
 =20
AaronJohnson=20
=20
H Prod spitfire 1500 =20
 =20
Sent from my iPhone=20
=20
 =20
On Jul 23, 2015, at 07:40, John Hasty <  [email-masked]> wrote: =20
 =20
=20
=20
 =20
       =20
    =20
Gee Whiz=E2=80=A6.you guys know a h- - - of a lot more about this than me, =
but I reason that if Manley etc. make a rod that withstands the rigors of a=
 800+ hp American V8 turning upwards of 9000 rpm and it costs =C2=BD of wha=
t P and C are charging it makes sense to use them=E2=80=A6..
    =20
=20
    =20
John H. Hasty | MULLEN HOLLAND & COOPER P.A.
    =20
Attorney at Law
    =20
301 South York Street  (zip: 28052)=20
 P.O. Box 488=20
 Gastonia, NC 28053-0488=20
 Telephone: 704.864.6751 | Facsimile: 704.861.8394=20
 [email-masked] | www.mhc-law.com
    =20
=20
    =20
From: Fot [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of John Styduhar
 Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 9:59 AM
 To: Christian Marx; Triumph 'Friends of Triumph
 Subject: Re: [Fot] Racing rod design
    =20
=20
    =20
     =20
      =20
Pauter has been making this design for almost 30 years with zero cold failu=
res.  If it were a poor design they would have changed it out of necessity.=
  According to a Pauter rep., the main reason they started manufacturing th=
eir own rods in the first place was due to the fact that the H beam and I b=
eam rods they were using couldn=E2=80=99t put up with what they were throwi=
ng at them with their turbo charged 4cylinder engines.  =20
      =20
If you spin a rod bearing, eventually you will break anything.=20
      =20
=20
     =20
    =20
    =20
     =20
=20
     =20
      =20
On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:49 AM, Christian Marx <[email-masked]> =
wrote:
      =20
       =20
I saw the pictures of Pauter.
 This type has no material were it needs and too much were it doesn't make =
sense.  Maybe for very short rods usable.=20
       =20
        =20
         =20
          =20
Am 23.07.2015 14:46 schrieb "John Styduhar" <[email-masked]>:
          =20
           =20
            =20
             =20
The Pauter design is a cross-beam (an inside-out H beam) not an x-beam and =
shares H-beam design properties because of this.=20
            =20
           =20
           =20
            =20
=20
            =20
             =20
On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:34 AM, MadMarx <[email-masked]> wrote:
             =20
              =20
               =20
                =20
                 =20
Today I had a look to a book called race car design.
                 =20
It also contains engines, and as detail rods and their designs. I, H, blade=
 =E2=80=93 no x-beam (seems they never got the idea that someone could get =
the idea of an x-beam rod)
                 =20
=20
                 =20
They said that F1 uses I-beam rods because they have the best stiffness to =
weight ratio.
                 =20
Also German DTM-cars use I-beam rods.
                 =20
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Tourenwagen_Masters
                 =20
=20
                 =20
=20
                 =20
Cheers
                 =20
Chris
                =20
               =20
              =20
              =20

 _______________________________________________
 [email-masked]
=20
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------=_Part_46022_1755071303.1437679796688
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<font color=3D'black' size=3D'2' face=3D'Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif'><fon=
t size=3D"2">In addition to the rotating mass issues, the recip weight iner=
tial forces create heavy tensile loads in the rods &amp; bending loads in t=
he crank @ TDC high rpm...<br>
FWIW<br>
Glen<br>
</font>

<div> <br>

</div>

<div> <br>

</div>

<div> <br>

</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br>

From: Aaron &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>

To: fot &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>

Sent: Thu, Jul 23, 2015 2:15 pm<br>

Subject: Re: [Fot] Racing rod design<br>

<br>

<div id=3D"AOLMsgPart_1.2_30e40212-66f7-4fb3-af03-767d4d2d0478">

<div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"aolReplacedBody">
=20

<div>
I guess I'm confused. &nbsp;How much worse is the stroke of a tr4. &nbsp;
 </div>

=20

<div>
  <br>

 </div>

=20

<div>
In my spitfire 1500 we use stock rods and a stock crank shaft and shift poi=
nt is 7200 rpm. Guys using the moldex cranks and forged rods are getting 85=
00 or so. &nbsp; And these are the pauter x style.&nbsp;
 </div>

=20

<div>
  <br>

 </div>

=20

<div>
Are you sure the initial failure was the rod and not something before that?
  <br>

  <br>

AaronJohnson
 </div>

=20

<div>
H Prod spitfire 1500
  <br>

  <br>

Sent from my iPhone
 </div>

=20

<div>
  <br>

On Jul 23, 2015, at 07:40, John Hasty &lt;
  <a target=3D"_blank" removedlink__5f9af8eb-5c63-4876-8e51-dc16b90a2517__h=
ref=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:
  <br>

  <br>

 </div>

 <blockquote>
 =20

<div>=20
   <style>#AOLMsgPart_1.2_30e40212-66f7-4fb3-af03-767d4d2d0478 td{color: bl=
ack;} @font-face {font-family:&quot;Cambria Math&quot;; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 =
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n:underline;} .aolReplacedBody a:visited,.aolReplacedBody span.MsoHyperlink=
Followed {mso-style-priority:99; color:purple; text-decoration:underline;} =
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size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} .aolReplacedBody div.Wo=
rdSection1 {page:WordSection1;}</style>=20
  =20

<div class=3D"WordSection1">=20
   =20

<div class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;=
Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Gee Whiz=E2=80=A6.you guys know a h=
- - - of a lot more about this than me, but I reason that if Manley etc. ma=
ke a rod that withstands the rigors of a 800+ hp American V8 turning upward=
s of 9000 rpm and it costs =C2=BD of what P and C are charging it makes sen=
se to use them=E2=80=A6..</span></div>

=20
   =20

<div class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;=
Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></div>

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b></span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial Narrow&=
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=20
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;=
Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Attorney at Law</span></div>

=20
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;=
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uot;,sans-serif;color:blue"><a target=3D"_blank" removedlink__5f9af8eb-5c63=
-4876-8e51-dc16b90a2517__href=3D"http://www.mhc-law.com/">www.mhc-law.com</=
a></span></u><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot=
;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"></span></div>

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<div class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;=
Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></div>

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<div class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Fot [<a target=3D"_blank" re=
movedlink__5f9af8eb-5c63-4876-8e51-dc16b90a2517__href=3D"mailto:fot-bounces=
@autox.team.net">mailto:[email-masked]</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b=
>John Styduhar<br>

 <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 23, 2015 9:59 AM<br>

 <b>To:</b> Christian Marx; Triumph 'Friends of Triumph<br>

 <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] Racing rod design</span></div>

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<div class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</div>

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<div>=20
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;=
Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Pauter has been making this design =
for almost 30 years with zero cold failures.&nbsp; If it were a poor design=
 they would have changed it out of necessity.&nbsp; According to a Pauter r=
ep., the main reason they started manufacturing their own rods in the first=
 place was due to the fact that the H beam and I beam rods they were using =
couldn=E2=80=99t put up with what they were throwing at them with their tur=
bo charged 4cylinder engines. &nbsp;&nbsp;</span></div>

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<div class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;=
Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">If you spin a rod bearing,&nbsp;eve=
ntually you will break anything.&nbsp;</span></div>

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<div class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</div>

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     </div>

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<div class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</div>

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<div>=20
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal">On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:49 AM, Christian Marx &l=
t;<a target=3D"_blank" removedlink__5f9af8eb-5c63-4876-8e51-dc16b90a2517__h=
ref=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wr=
ote:</div>

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      <blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padd=
ing:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">=20
      =20

<div>I saw the pictures of Pauter.<br>

 This type has no material were it needs and too much were it doesn't make =
sense.&nbsp; Maybe for very short rods usable. </div>

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<div class=3D"MsoNormal">Am 23.07.2015 14:46 schrieb "John Styduhar" &lt;<a=
 target=3D"_blank" removedlink__5f9af8eb-5c63-4876-8e51-dc16b90a2517__href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;:</div>

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          <blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;=
padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">=20
          =20

<div>=20
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<div>=20
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;=
Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The Pauter design is a cross-beam (=
an inside-out H beam) not an x-beam and shares H-beam design properties bec=
ause of this.&nbsp;</span></div>

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<div>=20
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</div>

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<div>=20
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal">On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:34 AM, MadMarx &lt;<a ta=
rget=3D"_blank" removedlink__5f9af8eb-5c63-4876-8e51-dc16b90a2517__href=3D"=
mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</d=
iv>

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             <blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0=
pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">=20
             =20

<div>=20
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<div>=20
               =20

<div>=20
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom=
-alt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,=
sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Today I had a look to a book called race car desi=
gn.</span><span lang=3D"DE"></span></div>

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<div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom=
-alt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,=
sans-serif;color:#1F497D">It also contains engines, and as detail rods and =
their designs. I, H, blade =E2=80=93 no x-beam (seems they never got the id=
ea that someone could get the idea of an x-beam rod)</span><span lang=3D"DE=
"></span></div>

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<div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom=
-alt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,=
sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"DE"></span></div>

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<div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom=
-alt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,=
sans-serif;color:#1F497D">They said that F1 uses I-beam rods because they h=
ave the best stiffness to weight ratio.</span><span lang=3D"DE"></span></di=
v>

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<div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom=
-alt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,=
sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Also German DTM-cars use I-beam rods.</span><span=
 lang=3D"DE"></span></div>

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<div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom=
-alt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,=
sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><a target=3D"_blank" removedlink__5f9af8eb-5c63-4=
876-8e51-dc16b90a2517__href=3D"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Toure=
nwagen_Masters">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Tourenwagen_Masters<=
/a></span><span lang=3D"DE"></span></div>

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<div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom=
-alt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,=
sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"DE"></span></div>

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<div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom=
-alt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,=
sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"DE"></span></div>

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<div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom=
-alt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,=
sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Cheers</span><span lang=3D"DE"></span></div>

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<div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom=
-alt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,=
sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Chris</span><span lang=3D"DE"></span></div>

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<div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>

 _______________________________________________<br>

 <a target=3D"_blank" removedlink__5f9af8eb-5c63-4876-8e51-dc16b90a2517__hr=
ef=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>

 <br>

 <a target=3D"_blank" removedlink__5f9af8eb-5c63-4876-8e51-dc16b90a2517__hr=
ef=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br>

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 Donate: <a target=3D"_blank" removedlink__5f9af8eb-5c63-4876-8e51-dc16b90a=
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      </blockquote>=20
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<div class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</div>

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  </div>

 </blockquote>
 <blockquote>
 =20

<div>
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