Subject: Re: [Fot] GT6 differential failure follow-up

From: fubog1 <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 07:58:21 -0400

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 Scott I realize it's after the fact, and that thing is pretty torn up, so I'm a little hesitant to speculate... but when you rebuild it make sure NOT to use the crap bearings on the market, Timken only, and make sure the preload is correct...
Glen

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Janzen <[email-masked]>
To: 'Friends of Triumph' Triumph <[email-masked]>
Sent: Sun, Jul 19, 2015 6:54 pm
Subject: [Fot] GT6 differential failure follow-up

Pulled my differential out and apart today - did not find what I expected.   
 
The input/pinion shaft is sheared off just forward of the pinion gear.   
 
The crown wheel has barely a mark on it, all teeth intact, no signs of damage. 
 
The inner tapered bearing race on the pinion shaft is just mangled and there are roller bearings all over the place.  However, the outer races for both pinion bearings look fine - no sign of discoloration or overheating, significant damage, etc. 
 
It did fail when I was decelerating in second gear at high RPMs down the steep downhill on the new course in Pittsburgh, so the engine promptly slowed down - still, amazingly, there is minimal sign of rotational damage to the driveshaft - just a couple of paint scrapes.  It was essentially unsecured at the rear, but perhaps the outer/forward pinion bearing kept it centered. 
 
Both the shaft and the gear rubbed against each other so much there's no way to see any fracture marks. 
 
One of the four bolts securing the spring to the top of the differential had cracked the housing, and it clearly leaked some oil there, but judging by the lack of oil on the underside of the car, I don't think this contributed to the failure.  I had just topped it up before the weekend, and there was no sign of oil under the car throughout the weekend.  Guess I'll be tapping the next diff for two more bolts, so there are six securing the spring next time. 

 
Photos attached.   

 

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<font color='black' size='2' face='Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif'>

<div> Sc<font size="2">ott I realize it's after the fact, and that thing is pretty torn up,
 so I'm a little hesitant to speculate... but when you rebuild it make 
sure NOT to use the crap bearings on the market, Timken only, and make 
sure the preload is correct...<br>
Glen<br>
</font>
</div>

<div> <br>

</div>

<div> <br>

</div>

<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----Original Message-----<br>

From: Scott Janzen &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>

To: 'Friends of Triumph' Triumph &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>

Sent: Sun, Jul 19, 2015 6:54 pm<br>

Subject: [Fot] GT6 differential failure follow-up<br>

<br>

<div id="AOLMsgPart_1.2.1_41be8232-f801-482b-9c6d-63de8cb238ef">

<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; " class="aolReplacedBody">

<div>
Pulled my differential out and apart today - did not find what I expected. &nbsp;
 </div>

<div>
The input/pinion shaft is sheared off just forward of the pinion gear. &nbsp;
 </div>

<div>
The crown wheel has barely a mark on it, all teeth intact, no signs of damage.
 </div>

<div>
The inner tapered bearing race on the pinion shaft is just mangled and there are roller bearings all over the place. &nbsp;However, the outer races for both pinion bearings look fine - no sign of discoloration or overheating, significant damage, etc.
 </div>

<div>
It did fail when I was decelerating in second gear at high RPMs down the steep downhill on the new course in Pittsburgh, so the engine promptly slowed down - still, amazingly, there is&nbsp;minimal sign of rotational damage to the driveshaft - just a couple of paint scrapes. &nbsp;It was essentially unsecured at the rear, but perhaps the outer/forward pinion bearing kept it centered.
 </div>

<div>
Both the shaft and the gear rubbed against each other so much there's no way to see any fracture marks.
 </div>

<div>
One of the four bolts securing the spring to the top of the differential had cracked the housing, and it clearly leaked some oil there, but judging by the lack of oil on the underside of the car, I don't think this contributed to the failure. &nbsp;I had just topped it up before the weekend, and there was no sign of oil under the car throughout the weekend. &nbsp;Guess I'll be tapping the next diff for two more bolts, so there are six securing the spring next time.
 </div>

<div>
  <br>

 </div>

<div>
Photos attached.
  <img id="8c0b48cd-c54c-4581-af0d-373d8167de5b" src="cid:9F694021-28EB-46FB-8EC6-BB5C950D9848@home" height="1022" width="766">
 </div>

<div>
  <br>

 </div>

<div>
  <img id="06eec5c3-97f4-4a7c-b08a-536811669de3" src="cid:0B882439-6950-4FC9-B980-BB60DF264B8A@home" height="1022" width="766">
 </div>

<div>
  <br>

 </div>

<div>
  <img id="162eff64-7ae5-4a63-8e45-1eef295ce5a9" src="cid:4C47ABF7-0265-468B-9061-153C138BE531@home" height="575" width="766">
 </div>

</div>

</div>

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_______________________________________________
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---

From: Scott Janzen <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 08:08:34 -0400

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Bearings are what was in it.  If bearings look good/feel good, I tend not to=
 replace them. Figure old used stock is probably best, but maybe not.  Pre- l=
oad, always suspect.  The diff I have "ready" to put in is going to be disas=
sembled and reassembled just to confirm. Shims and spacers at the ready - !

Sent from my mobile device=20

On Jul 20, 2015, at 7:58 AM, fubog1 <[email-masked]> wrote:

Scott I realize it's after the fact, and that thing is pretty torn up, so I'=
m a little hesitant to speculate... but when you rebuild it make sure NOT to=
 use the crap bearings on the market, Timken only, and make sure the preload=
 is correct...
Glen

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Janzen <[email-masked]>
To: 'Friends of Triumph' Triumph <[email-masked]>
Sent: Sun, Jul 19, 2015 6:54 pm
Subject: [Fot] GT6 differential failure follow-up

Pulled my differential out and apart today - did not find what I expected. =20=

The input/pinion shaft is sheared off just forward of the pinion gear. =20
The crown wheel has barely a mark on it, all teeth intact, no signs of damag=
e.
The inner tapered bearing race on the pinion shaft is just mangled and there=
 are roller bearings all over the place.  However, the outer races for both p=
inion bearings look fine - no sign of discoloration or overheating, signific=
ant damage, etc.
It did fail when I was decelerating in second gear at high RPMs down the ste=
ep downhill on the new course in Pittsburgh, so the engine promptly slowed d=
own - still, amazingly, there is minimal sign of rotational damage to the dr=
iveshaft - just a couple of paint scrapes.  It was essentially unsecured at t=
he rear, but perhaps the outer/forward pinion bearing kept it centered.
Both the shaft and the gear rubbed against each other so much there's no way=
 to see any fracture marks.
One of the four bolts securing the spring to the top of the differential had=
 cracked the housing, and it clearly leaked some oil there, but judging by t=
he lack of oil on the underside of the car, I don't think this contributed t=
o the failure.  I had just topped it up before the weekend, and there was no=
 sign of oil under the car throughout the weekend.  Guess I'll be tapping th=
e next diff for two more bolts, so there are six securing the spring next ti=
me.

Photos attached. 

Donate:

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<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Bearings are what was in it. &nbsp;If bearings look good/feel good, I tend not to replace them. Figure old used stock is probably best, but maybe not. &nbsp;Pre- load, always suspect. &nbsp;The diff I have "ready" to put in is going to be disassembled and reassembled just to confirm. Shims and spacers at the ready - !<br><br>Sent from my mobile device&nbsp;</div><div><br>On Jul 20, 2015, at 7:58 AM, fubog1 &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><div><font color="black" size="2" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">

<div> <br>

</div>

<div> <br>

</div>

From: Scott Janzen &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>

To: 'Friends of Triumph' Triumph &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>

<br>

<div>

<div>

<div>

<div>

<div>

<div>

<div>

<div>
  <br>

 </div>

<div>
Photos attached.
  &lt;FullSizeRender.jpg&gt;
 </div>

<div>
  <br>

 </div>

<div>
  &lt;FullSizeRender.jpg&gt;
 </div>

<div>
  <br>

 </div>

<div>
  &lt;FullSizeRender.jpg&gt;
 </div>

</div>

</div>

Donate:

</tt></pre>
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From: Jason Ostrowski <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 09:38:45 -0500

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Wow, I have not seen that happen before. For me, Usually it's ring and pinio=
n, which often destroys the case.=20
In terms of bearings, We have always used good looking and working original s=
tock ones as well. I suspect this one just went as a result of an high revvi=
ng extreme load under the conditions you describe. As knowing your attention=
 to setup details are spot on the factory manual methods. That is our way to=
o (less the welded spider gear). I think it's just a failure more racing rel=
ated which just happens when you are trying to go fast and shows you are doi=
ng a good job of trying to drive harder ( can't be mad about that).=20

I've been told by some of the best that the 4 bolt spring attachment is fine=
 and will be fine. Yet I agree with you completely and feel that the 6 studs=
 are necessary and a proper choice for the GT6.=20
Thanks for the update.
Keep doing what you have been doing with the differential.=20
And maybe it's best to just try to keep it in third for the descent and shif=
t again way later. Just use second (if you must) after a nice blip once you a=
re all slowed down and ready to accelerate again.=20
Jason Ostrowski
Friendly Ghost Racing

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 20, 2015, at 7:08 AM, Scott Janzen <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> Bearings are what was in it.  If bearings look good/feel good, I tend not t=
o replace them. Figure old used stock is probably best, but maybe not.  Pre-=
 load, always suspect.  The diff I have "ready" to put in is going to be dis=
assembled and reassembled just to confirm. Shims and spacers at the ready - !=

>=20
>=20
>=20
> Scott I realize it's after the fact, and that thing is pretty torn up, so I=
'm a little hesitant to speculate... but when you rebuild it make sure NOT t=
o use the crap bearings on the market, Timken only, and make sure the preloa=
d is correct...
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Pulled my differential out and apart today - did not find what I expected.=
 =20
> The input/pinion shaft is sheared off just forward of the pinion gear. =20=

> The crown wheel has barely a mark on it, all teeth intact, no signs of dam=
age.
> The inner tapered bearing race on the pinion shaft is just mangled and the=
re are roller bearings all over the place.  However, the outer races for bot=
h pinion bearings look fine - no sign of discoloration or overheating, signi=
ficant damage, etc.
> It did fail when I was decelerating in second gear at high RPMs down the s=
teep downhill on the new course in Pittsburgh, so the engine promptly slowed=
 down - still, amazingly, there is minimal sign of rotational damage to the d=
riveshaft - just a couple of paint scrapes.  It was essentially unsecured at=
 the rear, but perhaps the outer/forward pinion bearing kept it centered.
> Both the shaft and the gear rubbed against each other so much there's no w=
ay to see any fracture marks.
> One of the four bolts securing the spring to the top of the differential h=
ad cracked the housing, and it clearly leaked some oil there, but judging by=
 the lack of oil on the underside of the car, I don't think this contributed=
 to the failure.  I had just topped it up before the weekend, and there was n=
o sign of oil under the car throughout the weekend.  Guess I'll be tapping t=
he next diff for two more bolts, so there are six securing the spring next t=
ime.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jason@multiv=
intage.com
>=20
>=20

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	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>Wow, I have not seen that happen befor=
e. For me, Usually it's ring and pinion, which often destroys the case.&nbsp=
;</div><div>In terms of bearings, We have always used good looking and worki=
ng original stock ones as well. I suspect this one just went as a result of a=
n high revving extreme load under the conditions you describe. As knowing yo=
ur attention to setup details are spot on the factory manual methods. That i=
s our way too (less the welded spider gear). I think it's just a failure mor=
e racing related which just happens when you are trying to go fast and shows=
 you are doing a good job of trying to drive harder ( can't be mad about tha=
t).&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>I've been told by some of the best that t=
he 4 bolt spring attachment is fine and will be fine. Yet I agree with you c=
ompletely and feel that the 6 studs are necessary and a proper choice for th=
e GT6.&nbsp;</div><div>Thanks for the update.</div><div>Keep doing what you h=
ave been doing with the differential.&nbsp;</div><div>And maybe it's best to=
 just try to keep it in third for the descent and shift again way later. Jus=
t use second (if you must) after a nice blip once you are all slowed down an=
d ready to accelerate again.&nbsp;</div><div>Jason Ostrowski</div><div>Frien=
dly Ghost Racing</div><div><br>Sent from my iPhone</div><div><br>On Jul 20, 2=
015, at 7:08 AM, Scott Janzen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">sjanzen@=
me.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><meta http=
-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"><div>Bearings=
 are what was in it. &nbsp;If bearings look good/feel good, I tend not to re=
place them. Figure old used stock is probably best, but maybe not. &nbsp;Pre=
- load, always suspect. &nbsp;The diff I have "ready" to put in is going to b=
e disassembled and reassembled just to confirm. Shims and spacers at the rea=
dy - !<br><br>Sent from my mobile device&nbsp;</div><div><br>On Jul 20, 2015=
, at 7:58 AM, fubog1 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a=
>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><div><font color=3D"black" size=3D"2" face=3D"Aria=
l, Helvetica, sans-serif">

<div> Sc<font size=3D"2">ott I realize it's after the fact, and that thing i=
s pretty torn up,
 so I'm a little hesitant to speculate... but when you rebuild it make=20
sure NOT to use the crap bearings on the market, Timken only, and make=20
sure the preload is correct...<br>
Glen<br>
</font>
</div>

<div> <br>

</div>

<div> <br>

</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----O=
riginal Message-----<br>

From: Scott Janzen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&=
gt;<br>

To: 'Friends of Triumph' Triumph &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">f=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>

<br>

<div id=3D"AOLMsgPart_1.2.1_41be8232-f801-482b-9c6d-63de8cb238ef">

<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-=
break: after-white-space; " class=3D"aolReplacedBody">
=20

<div>
Pulled my differential out and apart today - did not find what I expected. &=
nbsp;
 </div>

=20

<div>
The input/pinion shaft is sheared off just forward of the pinion gear. &nbsp=
;
 </div>

=20

<div>

=20

<div>
The inner tapered bearing race on the pinion shaft is just mangled and there=
 are roller bearings all over the place. &nbsp;However, the outer races for b=
oth pinion bearings look fine - no sign of discoloration or overheating, sig=
nificant damage, etc.
 </div>

=20

<div>
It did fail when I was decelerating in second gear at high RPMs down the ste=
ep downhill on the new course in Pittsburgh, so the engine promptly slowed d=
own - still, amazingly, there is&nbsp;minimal sign of rotational damage to t=
he driveshaft - just a couple of paint scrapes. &nbsp;It was essentially uns=
ecured at the rear, but perhaps the outer/forward pinion bearing kept it cen=
tered.
 </div>

=20

<div>

=20

<div>
One of the four bolts securing the spring to the top of the differential had=
 cracked the housing, and it clearly leaked some oil there, but judging by t=
he lack of oil on the underside of the car, I don't think this contributed t=
o the failure. &nbsp;I had just topped it up before the weekend, and there w=
as no sign of oil under the car throughout the weekend. &nbsp;Guess I'll be t=
apping the next diff for two more bolts, so there are six securing the sprin=
g next time.
 </div>

=20

<div>
  <br>

 </div>

=20

<div>
Photos attached.

=20

<div>
  <br>

 </div>

=20

<div>

=20

<div>
  <br>

 </div>

=20

<div>

</div>

</div>

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From: John Styduhar <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 09:25:40 -0400

--===============6025209686033000471==

--047d7bb03dac26d379051b6297ac

While we are on GT6 drive train woes, the GT6 of James Dolan broke the
driver's side axle at the Pittsburgh Vintage GP. Sheared right off at the
brake backing plate.  The axle diameter looks uncomfortably small. Didn't
look like any body damage fortunately.  I believe this is the historic
Group 44 GT6.  The Kastner GT6 of Brian Dolan was also there and racing
well.

On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 10:38 AM, Jason Ostrowski <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> Wow, I have not seen that happen before. For me, Usually it's ring and
> pinion, which often destroys the case.
> In terms of bearings, We have always used good looking and working
> original stock ones as well. I suspect this one just went as a result of an
> high revving extreme load under the conditions you describe. As knowing
> your attention to setup details are spot on the factory manual methods.
> That is our way too (less the welded spider gear). I think it's just a
> failure more racing related which just happens when you are trying to go
> fast and shows you are doing a good job of trying to drive harder ( can't
> be mad about that).
>
> I've been told by some of the best that the 4 bolt spring attachment is
> fine and will be fine. Yet I agree with you completely and feel that the 6
> studs are necessary and a proper choice for the GT6.
> Thanks for the update.
> Keep doing what you have been doing with the differential.
> And maybe it's best to just try to keep it in third for the descent and
> shift again way later. Just use second (if you must) after a nice blip once
> you are all slowed down and ready to accelerate again.
> Jason Ostrowski
> Friendly Ghost Racing
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> Bearings are what was in it.  If bearings look good/feel good, I tend not
> to replace them. Figure old used stock is probably best, but maybe not.
> Pre- load, always suspect.  The diff I have "ready" to put in is going to
> be disassembled and reassembled just to confirm. Shims and spacers at the
> ready - !
>
> Sent from my mobile device
>
>  Scott I realize it's after the fact, and that thing is pretty torn up,
> so I'm a little hesitant to speculate... but when you rebuild it make sure
> NOT to use the crap bearings on the market, Timken only, and make sure the
> preload is correct...
> Glen
>
>
>  The inner tapered bearing race on the pinion shaft is just mangled and
> there are roller bearings all over the place.  However, the outer races for
> both pinion bearings look fine - no sign of discoloration or overheating,
> significant damage, etc.
>  It did fail when I was decelerating in second gear at high RPMs down the
> steep downhill on the new course in Pittsburgh, so the engine promptly
> slowed down - still, amazingly, there is minimal sign of rotational damage
> to the driveshaft - just a couple of paint scrapes.  It was essentially
> unsecured at the rear, but perhaps the outer/forward pinion bearing kept it
> centered.
>  One of the four bolts securing the spring to the top of the differential
> had cracked the housing, and it clearly leaked some oil there, but judging
> by the lack of oil on the underside of the car, I don't think this
> contributed to the failure.  I had just topped it up before the weekend,
> and there was no sign of oil under the car throughout the weekend.  Guess
> I'll be tapping the next diff for two more bolts, so there are six securing
> the spring next time.
>
>  Photos attached. 
>
>
>
> [email-masked]
> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Forums:http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>
>
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>
>
>
>

--047d7bb03dac26d379051b6297ac
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Whi=
le we are on GT6 drive train woes, the GT6 of James Dolan broke the driver&=
#39;s side axle at the Pittsburgh Vintage GP. Sheared right off at the brak=
e backing plate.=C2=A0 The axle diameter looks uncomfortably small. Didn&#3=
9;t look like any body damage fortunately.=C2=A0 I believe this is the hist=
oric Group 44 GT6.=C2=A0 The Kastner GT6 of Brian Dolan was also there and =
racing well. =C2=A0</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D=
"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 10:38 AM, Jason Ostrowski <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">ja=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex=
"><div dir=3D"auto"><div>Wow, I have not seen that happen before. For me, U=
sually it&#39;s ring and pinion, which often destroys the case.=C2=A0</div>=
<div>In terms of bearings, We have always used good looking and working ori=
ginal stock ones as well. I suspect this one just went as a result of an hi=
gh revving extreme load under the conditions you describe. As knowing your =
attention to setup details are spot on the factory manual methods. That is =
our way too (less the welded spider gear). I think it&#39;s just a failure =
more racing related which just happens when you are trying to go fast and s=
hows you are doing a good job of trying to drive harder ( can&#39;t be mad =
about that).=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>I&#39;ve been told by some of t=
he best that the 4 bolt spring attachment is fine and will be fine. Yet I a=
gree with you completely and feel that the 6 studs are necessary and a prop=
er choice for the GT6.=C2=A0</div><div>Thanks for the update.</div><div>Kee=
p doing what you have been doing with the differential.=C2=A0</div><div>And=
 maybe it&#39;s best to just try to keep it in third for the descent and sh=
ift again way later. Just use second (if you must) after a nice blip once y=
ou are all slowed down and ready to accelerate again.=C2=A0</div><div>Jason=
 Ostrowski</div><div>Friendly Ghost Racing</div><div><br>Sent from my iPhon=
e</div><div><div class=3D"h5"><div><br>On Jul 20, 2015, at 7:08 AM, Scott J=
anzen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
m</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div>Bearings =
are what was in it.=C2=A0 If bearings look good/feel good, I tend not to re=
place them. Figure old used stock is probably best, but maybe not.=C2=A0 Pr=
e- load, always suspect.=C2=A0 The diff I have &quot;ready&quot; to put in =
is going to be disassembled and reassembled just to confirm. Shims and spac=
ers at the ready - !<br><br>Sent from my mobile device=C2=A0</div><div><br>=
On Jul 20, 2015, at 7:58 AM, fubog1 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" t=
arget=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><div><font colo=
r=3D"black" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">

<div> Sc<font size=3D"2">ott I realize it&#39;s after the fact, and that th=
ing is pretty torn up,
 so I&#39;m a little hesitant to speculate... but when you rebuild it make=
=20
sure NOT to use the crap bearings on the market, Timken only, and make=20
sure the preload is correct...<br>
Glen<br>
</font>
</div>

<div> <br>

</div>

<div> <br>

</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br>

From: Scott Janzen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>

To: &#39;Friends of Triumph&#39; Triumph &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
am.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>

<br>

<div>

<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">
=20

<div>
Pulled my differential out and apart today - did not find what I expected. =
=C2=A0
 </div>

=20

<div>
The input/pinion shaft is sheared off just forward of the pinion gear. =C2=
=A0
 </div>

=20

<div>
The crown wheel has barely a mark on it, all teeth intact, no signs of dama=
ge.
 </div>

=20

<div>
The inner tapered bearing race on the pinion shaft is just mangled and ther=
e are roller bearings all over the place.=C2=A0 However, the outer races fo=
r both pinion bearings look fine - no sign of discoloration or overheating,=
 significant damage, etc.
 </div>

=20

<div>
It did fail when I was decelerating in second gear at high RPMs down the st=
eep downhill on the new course in Pittsburgh, so the engine promptly slowed=
 down - still, amazingly, there is=C2=A0minimal sign of rotational damage t=
o the driveshaft - just a couple of paint scrapes.=C2=A0 It was essentially=
 unsecured at the rear, but perhaps the outer/forward pinion bearing kept i=
t centered.
 </div>

=20

<div>
Both the shaft and the gear rubbed against each other so much there&#39;s n=
o way to see any fracture marks.
 </div>

=20

<div>
One of the four bolts securing the spring to the top of the differential ha=
d cracked the housing, and it clearly leaked some oil there, but judging by=
 the lack of oil on the underside of the car, I don&#39;t think this contri=
buted to the failure.=C2=A0 I had just topped it up before the weekend, and=
 there was no sign of oil under the car throughout the weekend.=C2=A0 Guess=
 I&#39;ll be tapping the next diff for two more bolts, so there are six sec=
uring the spring next time.
 </div>

=20

<div>
  <br>

 </div>

=20

<div>
Photos attached.

=20

<div>
  <br>

 </div>

=20

<div>

=20

<div>
  <br>

 </div>

=20

<div>

</div>

</div>

<div style=3D"margin:0px;font-family:Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Sans-Serif;font-s=
ize:12px;color:#000;background-color:#fff">

<pre style=3D"font-size:9pt"><tt>__________________________________________=
_____
<a>[email-masked]</a>

<a>http://www.fot-racing.com</a>

Donate:
<a>http://www.team.net/donate.html</a>
Archive: <a>http://www.team.net/archive</a>
Forums:
<a>http://www.team.net/forums</a>
<a>http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a>

</tt></pre>
</div>

=20
</div>

</font></div></div></blockquote></div></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>=
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span><a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a></=
span><br><span></span><br><span><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a></span><br><span></span><br><span=
>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">http=
://www.team.net/donate.html</a></span><br><span>Archive: <a href=3D"http://=
www.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a></sp=
an><br><span>Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" target=3D"_blan=
k">http://www.team.net/forums</a></span><br><span>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a hr=
ef=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]" tar=
get=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jason@multivintage=
.com</a></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br></div></blockquote></d=
iv><br>_______________________________________________<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">=
http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br>
<br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D=
"_blank">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>
[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.n=
et/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

--047d7bb03dac26d379051b6297ac--

--===============6025209686033000471==
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--===============6025209686033000471==--

---

From: Scott Janzen <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 09:34:18 -0400

--===============6190461785814856190==
 boundary="Apple-Mail=_BF34A3D8-0BDE-48F9-8501-ED9C875AF45F"

--Apple-Mail=_BF34A3D8-0BDE-48F9-8501-ED9C875AF45F
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
	charset=us-ascii

yep, standard failure.  I think he is still running stock stub axles.  =
Need to upgrade to Datsun, Corvair or other. =20

On Jul 21, 2015, at 9:25 AM, John Styduhar wrote:

While we are on GT6 drive train woes, the GT6 of James Dolan broke the =
driver's side axle at the Pittsburgh Vintage GP. Sheared right off at =
the brake backing plate.  The axle diameter looks uncomfortably small. =
Didn't look like any body damage fortunately.  I believe this is the =
historic Group 44 GT6.  The Kastner GT6 of Brian Dolan was also there =
and racing well. =20

On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 10:38 AM, Jason Ostrowski =
<[email-masked]> wrote:
Wow, I have not seen that happen before. For me, Usually it's ring and =
pinion, which often destroys the case.=20
In terms of bearings, We have always used good looking and working =
original stock ones as well. I suspect this one just went as a result of =
an high revving extreme load under the conditions you describe. As =
knowing your attention to setup details are spot on the factory manual =
methods. That is our way too (less the welded spider gear). I think it's =
just a failure more racing related which just happens when you are =
trying to go fast and shows you are doing a good job of trying to drive =
harder ( can't be mad about that).=20

I've been told by some of the best that the 4 bolt spring attachment is =
fine and will be fine. Yet I agree with you completely and feel that the =
6 studs are necessary and a proper choice for the GT6.=20
Thanks for the update.
Keep doing what you have been doing with the differential.=20
And maybe it's best to just try to keep it in third for the descent and =
shift again way later. Just use second (if you must) after a nice blip =
once you are all slowed down and ready to accelerate again.=20
Jason Ostrowski
Friendly Ghost Racing

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 20, 2015, at 7:08 AM, Scott Janzen <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Bearings are what was in it.  If bearings look good/feel good, I tend =
not to replace them. Figure old used stock is probably best, but maybe =
not.  Pre- load, always suspect.  The diff I have "ready" to put in is =
going to be disassembled and reassembled just to confirm. Shims and =
spacers at the ready - !
> Scott I realize it's after the fact, and that thing is pretty torn up, =
so I'm a little hesitant to speculate... but when you rebuild it make =
sure NOT to use the crap bearings on the market, Timken only, and make =
sure the preload is correct...
> Pulled my differential out and apart today - did not find what I =
expected. =20
> The input/pinion shaft is sheared off just forward of the pinion gear. =
=20
> The crown wheel has barely a mark on it, all teeth intact, no signs of =
damage.
> The inner tapered bearing race on the pinion shaft is just mangled and =
there are roller bearings all over the place.  However, the outer races =
for both pinion bearings look fine - no sign of discoloration or =
overheating, significant damage, etc.
> It did fail when I was decelerating in second gear at high RPMs down =
the steep downhill on the new course in Pittsburgh, so the engine =
promptly slowed down - still, amazingly, there is minimal sign of =
rotational damage to the driveshaft - just a couple of paint scrapes.  =
It was essentially unsecured at the rear, but perhaps the outer/forward =
pinion bearing kept it centered.
> Both the shaft and the gear rubbed against each other so much there's =
no way to see any fracture marks.
> One of the four bolts securing the spring to the top of the =
differential had cracked the housing, and it clearly leaked some oil =
there, but judging by the lack of oil on the underside of the car, I =
don't think this contributed to the failure.  I had just topped it up =
before the weekend, and there was no sign of oil under the car =
throughout the weekend.  Guess I'll be tapping the next diff for two =
more bolts, so there are six securing the spring next time.
> Unsubscribe/Manage: =

--Apple-Mail=_BF34A3D8-0BDE-48F9-8501-ED9C875AF45F
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
	charset=us-ascii

<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">yep, =
standard failure. &nbsp;I think he is still running stock stub axles. =
&nbsp;Need to upgrade to Datsun, Corvair or other. =
&nbsp;<div><br><div><div><div>On Jul 21, 2015, at 9:25 AM, John Styduhar =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">While we are on GT6 =
drive train woes, the GT6 of James Dolan broke the driver's side axle at =
the Pittsburgh Vintage GP. Sheared right off at the brake backing =
plate.&nbsp; The axle diameter looks uncomfortably small. Didn't look =
like any body damage fortunately.&nbsp; I believe this is the historic =
Group 44 GT6.&nbsp; The Kastner GT6 of Brian Dolan was also there and =
racing well. &nbsp;</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 10:38 AM, Jason Ostrowski =
<span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> =
wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div =
dir=3D"auto"><div>Wow, I have not seen that happen before. For me, =
Usually it's ring and pinion, which often destroys the =
case.&nbsp;</div><div>In terms of bearings, We have always used good =
looking and working original stock ones as well. I suspect this one just =
went as a result of an high revving extreme load under the conditions =
you describe. As knowing your attention to setup details are spot on the =
factory manual methods. That is our way too (less the welded spider =
gear). I think it's just a failure more racing related which just =
happens when you are trying to go fast and shows you are doing a good =
job of trying to drive harder ( can't be mad about =
that).&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>I've been told by some of the best =
that the 4 bolt spring attachment is fine and will be fine. Yet I agree =
with you completely and feel that the 6 studs are necessary and a proper =
choice for the GT6.&nbsp;</div><div>Thanks for the =
update.</div><div>Keep doing what you have been doing with the =
differential.&nbsp;</div><div>And maybe it's best to just try to keep it =
in third for the descent and shift again way later. Just use second (if =
you must) after a nice blip once you are all slowed down and ready to =
accelerate again.&nbsp;</div><div>Jason Ostrowski</div><div>Friendly =
Ghost Racing</div><div><br>Sent from my iPhone</div><div><div =
class=3D"h5"><div><br>On Jul 20, 2015, at 7:08 AM, Scott Janzen &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div>Bearings are =
what was in it.&nbsp; If bearings look good/feel good, I tend not to =
replace them. Figure old used stock is probably best, but maybe =
not.&nbsp; Pre- load, always suspect.&nbsp; The diff I have "ready" to =
put in is going to be disassembled and reassembled just to confirm. =
Shims and spacers at the ready - !<br><br>Sent from my mobile =
device&nbsp;</div><div><br>On Jul 20, 2015, at 7:58 AM, fubog1 &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br><br></div><div><font color=3D"black" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial, =
Helvetica, sans-serif">

<div> Sc<font size=3D"2">ott I realize it's after the fact, and that =
thing is pretty torn up,
 so I'm a little hesitant to speculate... but when you rebuild it make=20=

sure NOT to use the crap bearings on the market, Timken only, and make=20=

<div> <br>

</div>

<div> <br>

</div>

<div =
style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----Orig=
inal Message-----<br>

From: Scott Janzen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>

To: 'Friends of Triumph' Triumph &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
 target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>

<br>

<div>

<div>
Pulled my differential out and apart today - did not find what I =
expected. &nbsp;
 </div>

=20

<div>
The input/pinion shaft is sheared off just forward of the pinion gear. =
&nbsp;
 </div>

=20

<div>
The crown wheel has barely a mark on it, all teeth intact, no signs of =
damage.
 </div>

=20

<div>
The inner tapered bearing race on the pinion shaft is just mangled and =
there are roller bearings all over the place.&nbsp; However, the outer =
races for both pinion bearings look fine - no sign of discoloration or =
overheating, significant damage, etc.
 </div>

=20

<div>
It did fail when I was decelerating in second gear at high RPMs down the =
steep downhill on the new course in Pittsburgh, so the engine promptly =
slowed down - still, amazingly, there is&nbsp;minimal sign of rotational =
damage to the driveshaft - just a couple of paint scrapes.&nbsp; It was =
essentially unsecured at the rear, but perhaps the outer/forward pinion =
bearing kept it centered.
 </div>

=20

<div>
Both the shaft and the gear rubbed against each other so much there's no =
way to see any fracture marks.
 </div>

=20

<div>
One of the four bolts securing the spring to the top of the differential =
had cracked the housing, and it clearly leaked some oil there, but =
judging by the lack of oil on the underside of the car, I don't think =
this contributed to the failure.&nbsp; I had just topped it up before =
the weekend, and there was no sign of oil under the car throughout the =
weekend.&nbsp; Guess I'll be tapping the next diff for two more bolts, =
so there are six securing the spring next time.
 </div>

=20

<div>
  <br>

 </div>

=20

<div>
Photos attached.

=20

<div>
  <br>

 </div>

=20

<div>

=20

<div>
  <br>

 </div>

=20

<div>

</div>

</div>

<div =
style=3D"margin:0px;font-family:Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Sans-Serif;font-size:=
12px;color:#000;background-color:#fff">

<pre =
style=3D"font-size:9pt"><tt>______________________________________________=
_
<a>[email-masked]</a>

Donate:

</tt></pre>
</div>

=20
</div>

</font></div></div></blockquote></div></div><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</=
span><br><span><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>=
<a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com/" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a></span><br><span></span><br=
><span>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a></span><br><span>Arch=
ive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a></span><br><span>Forums: =
<a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/forums</a></span><br><span>Unsubscri=
be/Manage: <a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jason@multivin=
tage.com</a></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br></div></blockquot=
e></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
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---

From: Duncan Charlton <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 09:25:28 -0400

--===============1574577962763245122==

--Apple-Mail=_2DB225A2-3B28-4763-B403-75B339F55EF0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
	charset=utf-8

John,

I saw the GT6 axle damage when we were strolling the paddock.  We did =
not connect but I did get to see your final race.  I hope to race at =
Schenley park someday =E2=80=94 looks like a fun track.

Duncan
(Texas)

> On Jul 21, 2015, at 9:25 AM, John Styduhar <[email-masked]> =
>=20
> I've been told by some of the best that the 4 bolt spring attachment =
is fine and will be fine. Yet I agree with you completely and feel that =
the 6 studs are necessary and a proper choice for the GT6.=20
> And maybe it's best to just try to keep it in third for the descent =
and shift again way later. Just use second (if you must) after a nice =
blip once you are all slowed down and ready to accelerate again.=20
> Jason Ostrowski
> Friendly Ghost Racing
>=20
> Sent from my iPhone
>=20
> On Jul 20, 2015, at 7:08 AM, Scott Janzen <[email-masked] =
>=20
>> On Jul 20, 2015, at 7:58 AM, fubog1 <[email-masked] =
>>=20
>> Scott I realize it's after the fact, and that thing is pretty torn =
up, so I'm a little hesitant to speculate... but when you rebuild it =
make sure NOT to use the crap bearings on the market, Timken only, and =
make sure the preload is correct...
>> To: 'Friends of Triumph' Triumph <[email-masked] =
expected. =20
>> The input/pinion shaft is sheared off just forward of the pinion =
gear. =20
>> The crown wheel has barely a mark on it, all teeth intact, no signs =
of damage.
>> The inner tapered bearing race on the pinion shaft is just mangled =
and there are roller bearings all over the place.  However, the outer =
races for both pinion bearings look fine - no sign of discoloration or =
overheating, significant damage, etc.
>> [email-masked] <>
>> http://www.fot-racing.com <>
>>=20
>> Donate:
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html <>
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive <>
>> Forums:
>> http://www.team.net/forums <>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked] <>
>>=20
>>=20
>> http://www.fot-racing.com <http://www.fot-racing.com/>
>>=20
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html =
<http://www.team.net/donate.html>
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive <http://www.team.net/archive>
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums <http://www.team.net/forums>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked] =
<http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]>
> http://www.fot-racing.com <http://www.fot-racing.com/>
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html =
<http://www.team.net/donate.html>
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--Apple-Mail=_2DB225A2-3B28-4763-B403-75B339F55EF0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">John,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">I saw the =
GT6 axle damage when we were strolling the paddock. &nbsp;We did not =
connect but I did get to see your final race. &nbsp;I hope to race at =
Schenley park someday =E2=80=94 looks like a fun track.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Duncan</div><div =
class=3D"">(Texas)</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Jul 21, 2015, at 9:25 AM, =
John Styduhar &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">While =
we are on GT6 drive train woes, the GT6 of James Dolan broke the =
driver's side axle at the Pittsburgh Vintage GP. Sheared right off at =
the brake backing plate.&nbsp; The axle diameter looks uncomfortably =
small. Didn't look like any body damage fortunately.&nbsp; I believe =
this is the historic Group 44 GT6.&nbsp; The Kastner GT6 of Brian Dolan =
was also there and racing well. &nbsp;</div></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_extra"><br class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, =
Jul 20, 2015 at 10:38 AM, Jason Ostrowski <span dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank"=
 class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br =
class=3D""><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">Wow, I have not seen that happen before. For =
me, Usually it's ring and pinion, which often destroys the =
case.&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">In terms of bearings, We have always =
used good looking and working original stock ones as well. I suspect =
this one just went as a result of an high revving extreme load under the =
conditions you describe. As knowing your attention to setup details are =
spot on the factory manual methods. That is our way too (less the welded =
spider gear). I think it's just a failure more racing related which just =
happens when you are trying to go fast and shows you are doing a good =
job of trying to drive harder ( can't be mad about =
that).&nbsp;</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">I've been told by some of the best that the 4 bolt spring =
attachment is fine and will be fine. Yet I agree with you completely and =
feel that the 6 studs are necessary and a proper choice for the =
GT6.&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">Thanks for the update.</div><div =
class=3D"">Keep doing what you have been doing with the =
differential.&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">And maybe it's best to just try =
to keep it in third for the descent and shift again way later. Just use =
second (if you must) after a nice blip once you are all slowed down and =
ready to accelerate again.&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">Jason =
Ostrowski</div><div class=3D"">Friendly Ghost Racing</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Sent from my iPhone</div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"h5"><div class=3D""><br class=3D"">On Jul 20, 2015, at 7:08 AM, =
Scott Janzen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div=
 class=3D"">Bearings are what was in it.&nbsp; If bearings look =
good/feel good, I tend not to replace them. Figure old used stock is =
probably best, but maybe not.&nbsp; Pre- load, always suspect.&nbsp; The =
diff I have "ready" to put in is going to be disassembled and =
reassembled just to confirm. Shims and spacers at the ready - !<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Sent from my mobile device&nbsp;</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">On Jul 20, 2015, at 7:58 AM, fubog1 &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial, =
Helvetica, sans-serif" class=3D"">

<div class=3D""> Sc<font size=3D"2" class=3D"">ott I realize it's after =
the fact, and that thing is pretty torn up,
 so I'm a little hesitant to speculate... but when you rebuild it make=20=

sure the preload is correct...<br class=3D"">
Glen<br class=3D"">
</font>
</div>

<div class=3D""> <br class=3D"">

</div>

<div class=3D""> <br class=3D"">

</div>

<div style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: 10pt;" =
class=3D"">-----Original Message-----<br class=3D"">

From: Scott Janzen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank"=
 class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">

To: 'Friends of Triumph' Triumph &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
 target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">

Sent: Sun, Jul 19, 2015 6:54 pm<br class=3D"">

Subject: [Fot] GT6 differential failure follow-up<br class=3D"">

<br class=3D"">

<div class=3D"">

<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word" class=3D"">
=20

<div class=3D"">

=20

<div class=3D"">

=20

<div class=3D"">

=20

<div class=3D"">

=20

<div class=3D"">

=20

<div class=3D"">

=20

<div class=3D"">

=20

<div class=3D"">
  <br class=3D"">

 </div>

=20

<div class=3D"">
Photos attached.

=20

<div class=3D"">
  <br class=3D"">

 </div>

=20

<div class=3D"">

=20

<div class=3D"">
  <br class=3D"">

 </div>

=20

<div class=3D"">

</div>

</div>

<div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, =
sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" =
class=3D"">

<pre style=3D"font-size:9pt" class=3D""><tt =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________
<a class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>

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</tt></pre>
</div>

=20
</div>

</font></div></div></blockquote></div></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
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<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D""></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div>
_______________________________________________<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" class=3D"">[email-masked]</a><br =
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--===============1574577962763245122==--

---

From: "Dolan, James J" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 19:51:38 +0000

--===============2023840700492861623==
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	boundary="_005_D1D54EDA2B819jdolanvoyagerhldgscom_";
	type="multipart/alternative"

--_005_D1D54EDA2B819jdolanvoyagerhldgscom_
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--_000_D1D54EDA2B819jdolanvoyagerhldgscom_
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Yes the Group 44 car broke the rear drive shaft at PVGP.
Coming through Start/Finish in Sunday morning warmups, the car wiggled when=
 I lifted to set up for the turn. The Kastner car was on my bumper so I loo=
ked behind me and it didn=92t wiggle, so it wasn=92t oil on the track

I went up the front straight and knew there was a problem, looked for a saf=
e spot to get out of the way, and when I stopped the driver=92s rear wheel =
slowly rolled onto the grass next to my door. Thank you in heaven who ever =
you are.

We rebuilt the diff and the 1/2 shafts in the restoration, and the inspecti=
on on the wheel hub showed not signs of fatigue. So we will be redoing the =
entire rear.

The Kastner car broke a stub axle Saturday at noon and we replaced the diff=
 and ran again, taking 6th in class. The Kas car is geared to low for Schen=
ley and would not pull in 1st gear on all those tight turns.

As any of you who have driven the Schenley Park circuit, it is a hoot in a =
6 cylinder Triumph, and very challenging.

JJD

[cid:3CE34B35-2A6C-4BF4-80D1-A207=
28CB030E]

@gmail.com>>
Date: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] GT6 differential failure follow-up

John,

I saw the GT6 axle damage when we were strolling the paddock.  We did not c=
onnect but I did get to see your final race.  I hope to race at Schenley pa=
rk someday =97 looks like a fun track.

Duncan
(Texas)

[email-masked]>> wrote:

While we are on GT6 drive train woes, the GT6 of James Dolan broke the driv=
er's side axle at the Pittsburgh Vintage GP. Sheared right off at the brake=
 backing plate.  The axle diameter looks uncomfortably small. Didn't look l=
ike any body damage fortunately.  I believe this is the historic Group 44 G=
T6.  The Kastner GT6 of Brian Dolan was also there and racing well.

On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 10:38 AM, Jason Ostrowski <[email-masked]<m=
ailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:
Wow, I have not seen that happen before. For me, Usually it's ring and pini=
on, which often destroys the case.
In terms of bearings, We have always used good looking and working original=
 stock ones as well. I suspect this one just went as a result of an high re=
vving extreme load under the conditions you describe. As knowing your atten=
tion to setup details are spot on the factory manual methods. That is our w=
ay too (less the welded spider gear). I think it's just a failure more raci=
ng related which just happens when you are trying to go fast and shows you =
are doing a good job of trying to drive harder ( can't be mad about that).

I've been told by some of the best that the 4 bolt spring attachment is fin=
e and will be fine. Yet I agree with you completely and feel that the 6 stu=
ds are necessary and a proper choice for the GT6.
Thanks for the update.
Keep doing what you have been doing with the differential.
And maybe it's best to just try to keep it in third for the descent and shi=
ft again way later. Just use second (if you must) after a nice blip once yo=
u are all slowed down and ready to accelerate again.
Jason Ostrowski
Friendly Ghost Racing

Sent from my iPhone

.com>> wrote:

Bearings are what was in it.  If bearings look good/feel good, I tend not t=
o replace them. Figure old used stock is probably best, but maybe not.  Pre=
- load, always suspect.  The diff I have "ready" to put in is going to be d=
isassembled and reassembled just to confirm. Shims and spacers at the ready=
 - !

 wrote:

Scott I realize it's after the fact, and that thing is pretty torn up, so I=
'm a little hesitant to speculate... but when you rebuild it make sure NOT =
to use the crap bearings on the market, Timken only, and make sure the prel=
oad is correct...
Glen

-----Original Message-----
net>>

Pulled my differential out and apart today - did not find what I expected.
The input/pinion shaft is sheared off just forward of the pinion gear.
The crown wheel has barely a mark on it, all teeth intact, no signs of dama=
ge.
The inner tapered bearing race on the pinion shaft is just mangled and ther=
e are roller bearings all over the place.  However, the outer races for bot=
h pinion bearings look fine - no sign of discoloration or overheating, sign=
ificant damage, etc.
It did fail when I was decelerating in second gear at high RPMs down the st=
eep downhill on the new course in Pittsburgh, so the engine promptly slowed=
 down - still, amazingly, there is minimal sign of rotational damage to the=
 driveshaft - just a couple of paint scrapes.  It was essentially unsecured=
 at the rear, but perhaps the outer/forward pinion bearing kept it centered=
.
Both the shaft and the gear rubbed against each other so much there's no wa=
y to see any fracture marks.
One of the four bolts securing the spring to the top of the differential ha=
d cracked the housing, and it clearly leaked some oil there, but judging by=
 the lack of oil on the underside of the car, I don't think this contribute=
d to the failure.  I had just topped it up before the weekend, and there wa=
s no sign of oil under the car throughout the weekend.  Guess I'll be tappi=
ng the next diff for two more bolts, so there are six securing the spring n=
ext time.

Photos attached. 

_______________________________________________
[email-masked]://www.fot-racing.com

Donate:

http://www.fot-racing.com<http://www.fot-racing.com/>

ntage.com

http://www.fot-racing.com<http://www.fot-racing.com/>

il.com

[email-masked]

--_000_D1D54EDA2B819jdolanvoyagerhldgscom_
Content-ID: <[email-masked]>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<div>Yes the Group 44 car broke the rear drive shaft at PVGP.</div>
<div>Coming through Start/Finish in Sunday morning warmups, the car wiggled=
 when I lifted to set up for the turn. The Kastner car was on my bumper so =
I looked behind me and it didn=92t wiggle, so it wasn=92t oil on the track<=
/div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I went up the front straight and knew there was a problem, looked for =
a safe spot to get out of the way, and when I stopped the driver=92s rear w=
heel slowly rolled onto the grass next to my door. Thank you in heaven who =
ever you are.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We rebuilt the diff and the 1/2 shafts in the restoration, and the ins=
pection on the wheel hub showed not signs of fatigue. So we will be redoing=
 the entire rear.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The Kastner car broke a stub axle Saturday at noon and we replaced the=
 diff and ran again, taking 6th in class. The Kas car is geared to low for =
Schenley and would not pull in 1st gear on all those tight turns.&nbsp;</di=
v>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As any of you who have driven the Schenley Park circuit, it is a hoot =
in a 6 cylinder Triumph, and very challenging.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>JJD</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><img src=3D"cid:8FEE7305-6212-46E0-A3CB-61A7A26E93A9" type=3D"image/pn=
g"><img src=3D"cid:3CE34B35-2A6C-4BF4-80D1-A20728CB030E" type=3D"image/png"=
></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b=
lack; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM:=
 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid;=
 BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Duncan Charlton &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;=
<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 9=
:25 AM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>John Styduhar &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:fot@aut=
ox.team.net">[email-masked]</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
eam.net">[email-masked]</a>&gt;, fubog1 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fubog1@ao=
l.com">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [Fot] GT6 differential=
 failure follow-up<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line=
-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">
John,
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">I saw the GT6 axle damage when we were strolling the paddoc=
k. &nbsp;We did not connect but I did get to see your final race. &nbsp;I h=
ope to race at Schenley park someday =97 looks like a fun track.</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">Duncan</div>
<div class=3D"">(Texas)</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
<div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">On Jul 21, 2015, at 9:25 AM, John Styduhar &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:[email-masked]" class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</d=
iv>
<br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class=3D"">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">While we are on GT6 =
drive train woes, the GT6 of James Dolan broke the driver's side axle at th=
e Pittsburgh Vintage GP. Sheared right off at the brake backing plate.&nbsp=
; The axle diameter looks uncomfortably small.
 Didn't look like any body damage fortunately.&nbsp; I believe this is the =
historic Group 44 GT6.&nbsp; The Kastner GT6 of Brian Dolan was also there =
and racing well. &nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br class=3D"">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 10:38 AM, Jason Ostrowsk=
i <span dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br class=3D"">
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">Wow, I have not seen that happen before. For me, Usually it=
's ring and pinion, which often destroys the case.&nbsp;</div>
<div class=3D"">In terms of bearings, We have always used good looking and =
working original stock ones as well. I suspect this one just went as a resu=
lt of an high revving extreme load under the conditions you describe. As kn=
owing your attention to setup details
 are spot on the factory manual methods. That is our way too (less the weld=
ed spider gear). I think it's just a failure more racing related which just=
 happens when you are trying to go fast and shows you are doing a good job =
of trying to drive harder ( can't
 be mad about that).&nbsp;</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">I've been told by some of the best that the 4 bolt spring a=
ttachment is fine and will be fine. Yet I agree with you completely and fee=
l that the 6 studs are necessary and a proper choice for the GT6.&nbsp;</di=
v>
<div class=3D"">Thanks for the update.</div>
<div class=3D"">Keep doing what you have been doing with the differential.&=
nbsp;</div>
<div class=3D"">And maybe it's best to just try to keep it in third for the=
 descent and shift again way later. Just use second (if you must) after a n=
ice blip once you are all slowed down and ready to accelerate again.&nbsp;<=
/div>
<div class=3D"">Jason Ostrowski</div>
<div class=3D"">Friendly Ghost Racing</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
Sent from my iPhone</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"h5">
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
On Jul 20, 2015, at 7:08 AM, Scott Janzen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sjanzen@me.=
com" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br class=3D=
"">
<br class=3D"">
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">Bearings are what was in it.&nbsp; If bearings look good/fe=
el good, I tend not to replace them. Figure old used stock is probably best=
, but maybe not.&nbsp; Pre- load, always suspect.&nbsp; The diff I have &qu=
ot;ready&quot; to put in is going to be disassembled and reassembled
 just to confirm. Shims and spacers at the ready - !<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Sent from my mobile device&nbsp;</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
On Jul 20, 2015, at 7:58 AM, fubog1 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" t=
arget=3D"_blank" class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D""><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" class=
=3D"">
<div class=3D"">Sc<font size=3D"2" class=3D"">ott I realize it's after the =
fact, and that thing is pretty torn up, so I'm a little hesitant to specula=
te... but when you rebuild it make sure NOT to use the crap bearings on the=
 market, Timken only, and make sure the
 preload is correct...<br class=3D"">
Glen<br class=3D"">
</font></div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: 10pt;" class=3D"">-=
----Original Message-----<br class=3D"">
From: Scott Janzen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
To: 'Friends of Triumph' Triumph &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
Sent: Sun, Jul 19, 2015 6:54 pm<br class=3D"">
Subject: [Fot] GT6 differential failure follow-up<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">Pulled my differential out and apart today - did not find w=
hat I expected. &nbsp;
</div>
<div class=3D"">The input/pinion shaft is sheared off just forward of the p=
inion gear. &nbsp;
</div>
<div class=3D"">The crown wheel has barely a mark on it, all teeth intact, =
no signs of damage.
</div>
<div class=3D"">The inner tapered bearing race on the pinion shaft is just =
mangled and there are roller bearings all over the place.&nbsp; However, th=
e outer races for both pinion bearings look fine - no sign of discoloration=
 or overheating, significant damage, etc.
</div>
<div class=3D"">It did fail when I was decelerating in second gear at high =
RPMs down the steep downhill on the new course in Pittsburgh, so the engine=
 promptly slowed down - still, amazingly, there is&nbsp;minimal sign of rot=
ational damage to the driveshaft - just
 a couple of paint scrapes.&nbsp; It was essentially unsecured at the rear,=
 but perhaps the outer/forward pinion bearing kept it centered.
</div>
<div class=3D"">Both the shaft and the gear rubbed against each other so mu=
ch there's no way to see any fracture marks.
</div>
<div class=3D"">One of the four bolts securing the spring to the top of the=
 differential had cracked the housing, and it clearly leaked some oil there=
, but judging by the lack of oil on the underside of the car, I don't think=
 this contributed to the failure.&nbsp;
 I had just topped it up before the weekend, and there was no sign of oil u=
nder the car throughout the weekend.&nbsp; Guess I'll be tapping the next d=
iff for two more bolts, so there are six securing the spring next time.
</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">Photos attached. &lt;FullSizeRender.jpg&gt; </div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">&lt;FullSizeRender.jpg&gt; </div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">&lt;FullSizeRender.jpg&gt; </div>
</div>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif;=
 font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=3D"">
<pre style=3D"font-size:9pt" class=3D""><tt class=3D"">____________________=
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</div>
</font></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">
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