Subject: Re: [Fot] Spitfire timing?

From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2015 18:29:26 +0000 (UTC)

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Bud, 
Correct me if I'm wrong but you are talking about timing the spit to elev. 5000'-5200' where our tracks are or are you planning a trip to sea level? 
jg 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Bud" <[email-masked]> 
To: "fot" <[email-masked]> 
Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2015 11:57:38 AM 
Subject: [Fot] Spitfire timing? 

Amici, 

What timing setting are you Spitfire racers using? I've seen suggestions from 32 degrees total advance to 48. 
Thanks 
Bud 

Sent from Vail pass 10881 ft elevation. Will be back home in a couple hours from our Utah National Park tour in the RV. 

Sent from my Commodore 64 
_______________________________________________ 
[email-masked] 

http://www.fot-racing.com 

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive 

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<html><body><div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000"><DIV aria-label="Compose body">Bud,<BR></DIV>
<DIV aria-label="Compose body">Correct me if I'm wrong but you are talking about timing the spit to elev. 5000'-5200' where our tracks are or are you planning a trip to sea level?</DIV>
<DIV aria-label="Compose body">jg</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<HR id=zwchr>

<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000; FONT-STYLE: normal" data-mce-style="color: #000; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; text-decoration: none; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><B>From: </B>"Bud" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<BR><B>To: </B>"fot" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<BR><B>Sent: </B>Tuesday, June 2, 2015 11:57:38 AM<BR><B>Subject: </B>[Fot] Spitfire timing?<BR>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Amici,<BR>
<DIV><BR></DIV>What timing setting are you Spitfire racers using? I've seen suggestions from 32 degrees total advance to 48. <BR>Thanks<BR>Bud<BR>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Sent from Vail pass 10881 ft elevation. Will be back home in a couple hours from our Utah National Park tour in the RV.<BR>
<DIV><BR></DIV><BR>Sent from my Commodore 64<BR>_______________________________________________<BR>[email-masked]<BR>
<DIV><BR></DIV>http://www.fot-racing.com<BR>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html<BR>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive<BR>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums<BR>Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]<BR>
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_______________________________________________
[email-masked]

http://www.fot-racing.com

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From: "Spitfire Racing" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2015 15:34:58 -0400

Bud, it depends on the cam you're using. Typically it is safe to set for a
total of 32 degrees at 3000 rpm on most comp cams. Set it according to the
cam data sheet though to be safe.

Russ Moore
Spitfire #49

-----Original Message-----
From: Fot [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Bud Rolofson
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 1:58 PM
To: FOT
Subject: [Fot] Spitfire timing?

Amici,

What timing setting are you Spitfire racers using? I've seen suggestions
from 32 degrees total advance to 48. 
Thanks
Bud

Sent from Vail pass 10881 ft elevation. Will be back home in a couple hours
from our Utah National Park tour in the RV.

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]

---

From: Greg And Alison Blake <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2015 17:01:40 -0500

Not a spitfire guy but 48????  WOW that seems really high. 

My TR3 race motor likes 30. It's never been on a Dyno so I am sure I am leaving some power unused, but I don't melt Pistons or hammer bearings either. 

> On Jun 2, 2015, at 12:57 PM, Bud Rolofson <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> Amici,
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
> 
>

---

From: Duncan Charlton <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2015 17:53:58 -0500

I assume that includes vacuum advance, which many racers would not use.  I have always assumed that the vacuum advance is really a fuel economy improvement device and that it would not ever come into play at full throttle.

Duncan
(Texas)

> On Jun 2, 2015, at 5:01 PM, Greg And Alison Blake <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
> 
>

---

From: Edward Dunn <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2015 15:56:23 -0700

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My 1147 is at 36 degrees.

Edward Dunn

Quality Fuel Trailer and Tank Inc.
1390 N. McDowell Blvd. Suite G-283
Petaluma, CA 94954

707-509-5577   x 7012
800-509-1904

-----Original Message-----
From: Fot [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Duncan Charlton
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 3:54 PM
To: Greg And Alison Blake
Cc: FOT
Subject: Re: [Fot] Spitfire timing?

I assume that includes vacuum advance, which many racers would not use.  I =
have always assumed that the vacuum advance is really a fuel economy improv=
ement device and that it would not ever come into play at full throttle.

Duncan

(Texas)

> On Jun 2, 2015, at 5:01 PM, Greg And Alison Blake <[email-masked]<=
mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:

> My TR3 race motor likes 30. It's never been on a Dyno so I am sure I am l=
eaving some power unused, but I don't melt Pistons or hammer bearings eithe=
r.

[email-masked]>> wrote:

>> What timing setting are you Spitfire racers using? I've seen suggestions=

>> Sent from Vail pass 10881 ft elevation. Will be back home in a couple ho=
urs from our Utah National Park tour in the RV.

>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/ablake2@au=
stin.rr.com

> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/duncan.char=
[email-masked]

fueltrailers.com

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoPlainText>My 1147 is at=
 36 degrees.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Edward Dunn<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:#002060'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b>=
</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Quality Fuel Trailer and Tank Inc.<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoNormal>1390 N. McDowell Blvd. Suite G-283<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal>Petaluma, CA 94954<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>707-509-5577&nbsp;&nbsp; x 7012<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>800-509-1904<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'><i=
mg width=3D356 height=3D64 id=3D"Picture_x0020_1" src=3D"cid:image001.jpg@0=
1D09D4C.AC9BA060" alt=3D"TransFueler Logo Med 200px"></span><o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>-----O=
riginal Message-----<br>From: Fot [mailto:[email-masked]] On Be=
half Of Duncan Charlton<br>Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 3:54 PM<br>To: Greg=
 And Alison Blake<br>Cc: FOT<br>Subject: Re: [Fot] Spitfire timing?</p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>I assume t=
hat includes vacuum advance, which many racers would not use.&nbsp; I have =
always assumed that the vacuum advance is really a fuel economy improvement=
 device and that it would not ever come into play at full throttle.<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>Duncan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>(Texas)<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; On Jun 2=
, 2015, at 5:01 PM, Greg And Alison Blake &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ablake2@aus=
tin.rr.com"><span style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>ablake2@a=
ustin.rr.com</span></a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Not a spitfire guy but =
48????&nbsp; WOW that seems really high.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; My TR3 race motor=
 likes 30. It's never been on a Dyno so I am sure I am leaving some power u=
nused, but I don't melt Pistons or hammer bearings either.<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;&gt; On Jun 2, 2015, at 12=
:57 PM, Bud Rolofson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"><span styl=
e=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>[email-masked]</span></a>=
&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;&gt; Amici,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;&gt; What t=
iming setting are you Spitfire racers using? I've seen suggestions from 32 =
degrees total advance to 48.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;&gt;=
 Thanks<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;&gt; Bud<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt;&gt; Sent from Vail pass 10881 ft elevation. Will be back home in a cou=
ple hours from our Utah National Park tour in the RV.<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;&=
gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;&gt; Sent from my Commo=
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From: Kas Kastner <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2015 16:13:38 -0700

--===============2139268231357651132==

--001a11c36c96112bfb0517911a6d

Ignition timing is decided by the quality of the gasoline provided to the
engine and the elimination of detonation. With 100 octane you would not
dare use more than 30 degrees with a TR-3,4  full race engine, but with
110-113 generally provided by the race management for sale (be sure to ask)
then another couple degrees is certainly reasonable and there will be a
power improvement. Maybe even a little more timing than that if you have
not yet optimized your compression ratio. If you wait to* hear *detonation,
chances are you will be to late to save the engine from some damage.

Detonation occurrence is the determination of how much ignition advance you
can safely use regardless of the engine type, style or manufacture. CLEAN
spark plugs and a high rev shut off will tell you about all that.

Oh yeah, here is old Kas again ranting on about checking the spark plugs.

*Never be beaten by equipment.*

On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 3:53 PM, Duncan Charlton <[email-masked]
> wrote:

> I assume that includes vacuum advance, which many racers would not use.  I
> have always assumed that the vacuum advance is really a fuel economy
> improvement device and that it would not ever come into play at full
> throttle.
>
> Duncan
> (Texas)
>
> > My TR3 race motor likes 30. It's never been on a Dyno so I am sure I am
> leaving some power unused, but I don't melt Pistons or hammer bearings
> either.
> >
> >
> >> What timing setting are you Spitfire racers using? I've seen
> suggestions from 32 degrees total advance to 48.
> >> Thanks
> >> Bud
> >>
> >> Sent from Vail pass 10881 ft elevation. Will be back home in a couple
> hours from our Utah National Park tour in the RV.
> >>
> >>
> >> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
> >>
> >>
> > Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
> >
> >
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>
>
>

--001a11c36c96112bfb0517911a6d
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Ignition timing is decided by the quality of the gaso=
line provided to the engine and the elimination of detonation. With 100 oct=
ane you would not dare use more than 30 degrees with a TR-3,4=C2=A0 full ra=
ce engine, but with 110-113 generally provided by the race management for s=
ale (be sure to ask) then another couple degrees is certainly reasonable an=
d there will be a power improvement. Maybe even a little more timing=C2=A0t=
han that if you have not yet optimized your compression ratio. If you wait =
to<strong> <em>hear</em> </strong>detonation, chances are you will be to la=
te to save the engine from some damage.</div><div><br></div><div>Detonation=
 occurrence=C2=A0is the determination of how much ignition advance you can =
safely use regardless of the engine type, style or manufacture. CLEAN spark=
 plugs and a high rev shut off will tell you about all that.</div><div><br>=
</div><div>Oh yeah, here is old Kas again ranting on about checking the spa=
rk plugs.</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div=
 class=3D"gmail_signature"><p><strong><font color=3D"#000099">Never be beat=
en by equipment.</font></strong></p></div></div>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 3:53 PM, Duncan Charl=
ton <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc=
 solid;padding-left:1ex">I assume that includes vacuum advance, which many =
racers would not use.=C2=A0 I have always assumed that the vacuum advance i=
s really a fuel economy improvement device and that it would not ever come =
into play at full throttle.<br>
<br>
Duncan<br>
(Texas)<br>
<br>
&gt; On Jun 2, 2015, at 5:01 PM, Greg And Alison Blake &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Not a spitfire guy but 48????=C2=A0 WOW that seems really high.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; My TR3 race motor likes 30. It&#39;s never been on a Dyno so I am sure=
 I am leaving some power unused, but I don&#39;t melt Pistons or hammer bea=
rings either.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; On Jun 2, 2015, at 12:57 PM, Bud Rolofson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:le=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Amici,<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; What timing setting are you Spitfire racers using? I&#39;ve seen s=
uggestions from 32 degrees total advance to 48.<br>
&gt;&gt; Thanks<br>
&gt;&gt; Bud<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Sent from Vail pass 10881 ft elevation. Will be back home in a cou=
ple hours from our Utah National Park tour in the RV.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Sent from my Commodore 64<br>
&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" target=3D"_blank">http://www=
.fot-racing.com</a><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_bla=
nk">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
&gt;&gt; Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank"=
>http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
&gt;&gt; Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttp://www.team.net/forums</a><br>
&gt;&gt; Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/optio=
ns/fot/[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailm=
an/options/fot/[email-masked]</a><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot=
-racing.com</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">=
&gt; Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
&gt; Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" target=3D"_blank">http:=
//www.team.net/forums</a><br>
&gt; Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/f=
ot/[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mai=
lman/options/fot/[email-masked]</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com" target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-raci=
ng.com</a><br>
<br>
//www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://w=
ww.team.net/archive</a><br>
Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" target=3D"_blank">http://www=
.team.net/forums</a><br>
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options=
/fot/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a11c36c96112bfb0517911a6d--

--===============2139268231357651132==
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--===============2139268231357651132==--

---

From: Bud R <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2015 19:05:52 -0600

--===============2361524621839513257==

--Apple-Mail=_2982D6B4-9DD4-46BB-96B7-B8E917E75213
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
	charset=windows-1252

Thanks for all the comments on timing.

The source of the 48 timing number indicated that was a typo and they =
meant 38 degrees total advance and going down from there until no =
detonation. Sorry about that.

I was just curious as Kas=92  spitfire competition manual says 32 max or =
there will be detonation. Which is where I have it set now with no =
detonation.

The car is going on the dyno on Tuesday so hopefully once the carb (DCOE =
40) is dialed in we will get the timing to where the engine likes it =
best.

Thanks
Bud

Extreme Parts Racing (more than just a haircut)

71TR6 CC57365 (Good 6)
71 Spitfire MK IV Race Car #3
69 Spitfire MK III (back up FE engine/dinghy car)
93 Minnie Winnie Race Support Vehicle=20
77 Z-50A Hardly Davidson Honda Mini-Trail Bike (Triumph Pit Bike)

On Jun 2, 2015, at 11:57 AM, Bud Rolofson <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Amici,
>=20
> What timing setting are you Spitfire racers using? I've seen =
suggestions from 32 degrees total advance to 48.=20
> Thanks
> Bud
>=20
> Sent from Vail pass 10881 ft elevation. Will be back home in a couple =
>=20
>=20

--Apple-Mail=_2982D6B4-9DD4-46BB-96B7-B8E917E75213
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
	charset=windows-1252

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;"><div>Thanks for all the comments on =
timing.</div><div><br></div>The source of the 48 timing number indicated =
that was a typo and they meant 38 degrees total advance and going down =
from there until no detonation. Sorry about that.<div><br></div><div>I =
was just curious as Kas=92 &nbsp;spitfire competition manual says 32 max =
or there will be detonation. Which is where I have it set now with no =
detonation.</div><div><br></div><div>The car is going on the dyno on =
Tuesday so hopefully once the carb (DCOE 40) is dialed in we will get =
the timing to where the engine likes it =
best.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks</div><div>Bud<br><div =
apple-content-edited=3D"true">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; border-collapse: separate; orphans: 2; =
widows: 2; border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: =
none;"><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; widows: =
2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;"><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"orphans: =
2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;"><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"orphans: =
2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;"><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"orphans: =
2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;"><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"orphans: =
2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;"><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"orphans: =
2; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: =
none;"><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;"><div><div =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><br></div><div =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br></div><div style=3D"border-collapse: =
separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;">Extreme Parts Racing&nbsp;(more than just a haircut)</div><div =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br></div><div>71TR6 CC57365 (Good =
6)</div><div style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">71 Spitfire MK IV =
Race Car #3</div><div style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">69 Spitfire MK III =
(back up FE engine/dinghy car)</div><div style=3D"border-collapse: =
separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;">93 Minnie Winnie Race Support Vehicle&nbsp;</div><div =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">77 Z-50A Hardly Davidson Honda =
Mini-Trail Bike (Triumph Pit Bike)</div></div><div =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br></div><div =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><br></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br><div><div>On Jun 2, 2015, at 11:57 AM, Bud Rolofson &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Amici,<br><br>What timing setting are you Spitfire racers =
using? I've seen suggestions from 32 degrees total advance to 48. =
<br>Thanks<br>Bud<br><br>Sent from Vail pass 10881 ft elevation. Will be =
back home in a couple hours from our Utah National Park tour in the =
RV.<br><br><br>Sent from my Commodore =
64</blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_2982D6B4-9DD4-46BB-96B7-B8E917E75213--

--===============2361524621839513257==
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--===============2361524621839513257==--

---

From: Bud R <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2015 19:20:09 -0600

--===============8110779567980212526==

--Apple-Mail=_6F9ED575-BFD6-4C92-ACE1-841D27FE1F7D
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
	charset=windows-1252

Thanks Kas,

The idea of starting high and backing off the timing until no detonation =
just didn=92t seem like a good idea to me at all. Why do that to an =
engine? Thanks for affirming that is a bad idea.
I=92m running 110 Sunoco, no domed pistons, and about 11.57 CR. I=92ve =
got a dyno test setup so that will get it where the car runs best.

Thanks
Bud

71TR6 CC57365 (Good 6)

On Jun 2, 2015, at 5:13 PM, Kas Kastner <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Ignition timing is decided by the quality of the gasoline provided to =
the engine and the elimination of detonation. With 100 octane you would =
not dare use more than 30 degrees with a TR-3,4  full race engine, but =
with 110-113 generally provided by the race management for sale (be sure =
to ask) then another couple degrees is certainly reasonable and there =
will be a power improvement. Maybe even a little more timing than that =
if you have not yet optimized your compression ratio. If you wait to =
hear detonation, chances are you will be to late to save the engine from =
some damage.
>=20
> Detonation occurrence is the determination of how much ignition =
advance you can safely use regardless of the engine type, style or =
manufacture. CLEAN spark plugs and a high rev shut off will tell you =
about all that.
>=20
> Oh yeah, here is old Kas again ranting on about checking the spark =
plugs.
>=20
> Never be beaten by equipment.
>=20
>=20
> On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 3:53 PM, Duncan Charlton =
<[email-masked]> wrote:
> I assume that includes vacuum advance, which many racers would not =
use.  I have always assumed that the vacuum advance is really a fuel =
economy improvement device and that it would not ever come into play at =
full throttle.
>=20
> Duncan
> (Texas)
>=20
> > On Jun 2, 2015, at 5:01 PM, Greg And Alison Blake =
<[email-masked]> wrote:
> > My TR3 race motor likes 30. It's never been on a Dyno so I am sure I =
am leaving some power unused, but I don't melt Pistons or hammer =
bearings either.
> >
> >
> >> On Jun 2, 2015, at 12:57 PM, Bud Rolofson <[email-masked]> =
> >> Thanks
> >> Bud
> >>
> >> Sent from Vail pass 10881 ft elevation. Will be back home in a =
couple hours from our Utah National Park tour in the RV.
> >> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
> > Unsubscribe/Manage: =
> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
> Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]

--Apple-Mail=_6F9ED575-BFD6-4C92-ACE1-841D27FE1F7D
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
	charset=windows-1252

-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">Thanks =
Kas,<div><br></div><div>The idea of starting high and backing off the =
timing until no detonation just didn=92t seem like a good idea to me at =
all. Why do that to an engine? Thanks for affirming that is a bad =
idea.</div><div>I=92m running 110 Sunoco, no domed pistons, and about =
11.57 CR. I=92ve got a dyno test setup so that will get it where the car =
runs best.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks</div><div>Bud<br><div =
0px;"><br></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span=
></div></span></div></span></div></span></div><div><div>On Jun 2, 2015, =
at 5:13 PM, Kas Kastner &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Ignition timing is decided by the =
quality of the gasoline provided to the engine and the elimination of =
detonation. With 100 octane you would not dare use more than 30 degrees =
with a TR-3,4&nbsp; full race engine, but with 110-113 generally =
provided by the race management for sale (be sure to ask) then another =
couple degrees is certainly reasonable and there will be a power =
improvement. Maybe even a little more timing&nbsp;than that if you have =
not yet optimized your compression ratio. If you wait to<strong> =
<em>hear</em> </strong>detonation, chances are you will be to late to =
save the engine from some damage.</div><div><br></div><div>Detonation =
occurrence&nbsp;is the determination of how much ignition advance you =
can safely use regardless of the engine type, style or manufacture. =
CLEAN spark plugs and a high rev shut off will tell you about all =
that.</div><div><br></div><div>Oh yeah, here is old Kas again ranting on =
about checking the spark plugs.</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br =
clear=3D"all"><div><div class=3D"gmail_signature"><p><strong><font =
color=3D"#000099">Never be beaten by =
equipment.</font></strong></p></div></div>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 3:53 PM, Duncan =
Charlton <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> =
wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I assume that includes =
vacuum advance, which many racers would not use.&nbsp; I have always =
assumed that the vacuum advance is really a fuel economy improvement =
device and that it would not ever come into play at full throttle.<br>
<br>
Duncan<br>
(Texas)<br>
<br>
&gt; On Jun 2, 2015, at 5:01 PM, Greg And Alison Blake &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Not a spitfire guy but 48????&nbsp; WOW that seems really high.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; My TR3 race motor likes 30. It's never been on a Dyno so I am sure =
I am leaving some power unused, but I don't melt Pistons or hammer =
bearings either.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; On Jun 2, 2015, at 12:57 PM, Bud Rolofson &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Amici,<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; What timing setting are you Spitfire racers using? I've seen =
suggestions from 32 degrees total advance to 48.<br>
&gt;&gt; Thanks<br>
&gt;&gt; Bud<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Sent from Vail pass 10881 ft elevation. Will be back home in a =
couple hours from our Utah National Park tour in the RV.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Sent from my Commodore 64<br>
&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com/" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
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target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
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target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>
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From: Jim Norlin <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2015 19:07:13 -0700

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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I'm going off of memory from the last dyno run which is always a 
dangerous thing - memory, not the dyno.

Our 1300 is prepped to SCCA HP limited prep rules - 11:1 compression, 
Kastner A8 cam, Sunoco 110 leaded fuel.  We made initial pulls at 36 
degrees and then played around a bit.  We made slightly more power by 
advancing up to 42 degrees but we all agreed (engine builder, dyno 
operator and me) that backing back down into the 30's in the interest of 
engine reliability made sense.  I think we ended up at 38, but it may 
have been 36.  Guess I ought to check, but then the engine is out of the 
car right now.

BTW, in my opinion, chassis dyno time with an experienced operator is 
the cheapest horsepower and best assurance that your timing and A/F 
mixture is set right.

Jim

On 6/2/2015 6:05 PM, Bud R wrote:
> The source of the 48 timing number indicated that was a typo and they 
> meant 38 degrees total advance and going down from there until no 
> I was just curious as Kas’  spitfire competition manual says 32 max or 
> there will be detonation. Which is where I have it set now with no 
> detonation.
>
> The car is going on the dyno on Tuesday so hopefully once the carb 
> (DCOE 40) is dialed in we will get the timing to where the engine 
> likes it best.
>
> Thanks
> Bud
>
>
>
> 93 Minnie Winnie Race Support Vehicle
> On Jun 2, 2015, at 11:57 AM, Bud Rolofson <[email-masked] 
>
>> Amici,
>>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/[email-masked]
>
>

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<html>
  <head>
    <meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
      http-equiv="Content-Type">
  </head>
  <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    I'm going off of memory from the last dyno run which is always a
    dangerous thing - memory, not the dyno.<br>
    <br>
    Our 1300 is prepped to SCCA HP limited prep rules - 11:1
    compression, Kastner A8 cam, Sunoco 110 leaded fuel.  We made
    initial pulls at 36 degrees and then played around a bit.  We made
    slightly more power by advancing up to 42 degrees but we all agreed
    (engine builder, dyno operator and me) that backing back down into
    the 30's in the interest of engine reliability made sense.  I think
    we ended up at 38, but it may have been 36.  Guess I ought to check,
    but then the engine is out of the car right now.<br>
    <br>
    BTW, in my opinion, chassis dyno time with an experienced operator
    is the cheapest horsepower and best assurance that your timing and
    A/F mixture is set right.   <br>
    <br>
    Jim<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/2/2015 6:05 PM, Bud R wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:[email-masked]"
      type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
        charset=windows-1252">
      <div>Thanks for all the comments on timing.</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      The source of the 48 timing number indicated that was a typo and
      they meant 38 degrees total advance and going down from there
      until no detonation. Sorry about that.
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>I was just curious as Kas’  spitfire competition manual says
        32 max or there will be detonation. Which is where I have it set
        now with no detonation.</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>The car is going on the dyno on Tuesday so hopefully once the
        carb (DCOE 40) is dialed in we will get the timing to where the
        engine likes it best.</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Thanks</div>
      <div>Bud<br>
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                                            Racing (more than just a
                                            haircut)</div>
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                                          <div>71TR6 CC57365 (Good 6)</div>
                                          <div style="border-collapse:
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                                            Car #3</div>
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                                            0); font-family: Helvetica;
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                                            text-transform: none;
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                                            word-spacing: 0px;
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                                            -webkit-text-stroke-width:
                                            0px;">69 Spitfire MK III
                                            (back up FE engine/dinghy
                                            car)</div>
                                          <div style="border-collapse:
                                            separate; color: rgb(0, 0,
                                            0); font-family: Helvetica;
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                                            0px;">77 Z-50A Hardly
                                            Davidson Honda Mini-Trail
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          <div>On Jun 2, 2015, at 11:57 AM, Bud Rolofson &lt;<a
              moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
            wrote:</div>
          <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
          <blockquote type="cite">Amici,<br>
            <br>
            What timing setting are you Spitfire racers using? I've seen
            suggestions from 32 degrees total advance to 48. <br>
            Thanks<br>
            Bud<br>
            <br>
            Sent from Vail pass 10881 ft elevation. Will be back home in
            a couple hours from our Utah National Park tour in the RV.<br>
            <br>
            <br>
            Sent from my Commodore 64</blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
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      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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