Subject: [Fot] tire rotation

From: Kas Kastner via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 12:25:38 -0700

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I only tried the rotation one time on my team cars TR-6 and GT-6 especially
, Goodyear racing tires with no tread, and it was a disaster to
the handling.

*Never be beaten by equipment.*

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I only tried the rotation one time on my team cars TR=
-6 and GT-6 especially , Goodyear racing tires with no tread, and it was a =
disaster to</div><div>the handling. <br clear=3D"all"></div><div><div class=
=3D"gmail_signature"><p><strong><font color=3D"#000099">Never be beaten by =
equipment.</font></strong></p></div></div>
</div>

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_______________________________________________
[email-masked]

http://www.fot-racing.com

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

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From: Marcel Van Mulders via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2015 09:57:33 +0200

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Kas wrote : "I only tried rotation one time ... and it was a disaster to the
handling".
Are we all that stupid then?  Absolutely not, we are amateur racers and it
should stay that way. In racing are countless factors  influencing the
laptimes. As amateurs, we only use part of these and forget about the rest
because of no time, no money, too lazy,... This is contrary to professional
racing and especially races with all identical cars : winning is (even more)
important there and you can't win if you don't see and take advance of all
the opportunities.In amateur racing, when you are down on power, or you are
loosing time by slow overtaking, you can compensate and gain laptime and
still win or have a good result by taking advance of other opportunities,
for instance by not rotating the tyres. When you are judging it's about time
to rotate the tyres : think about it : on what corner will that left rear
tyre perform at it's best in the next race? At the left rear of course,
because the load distribution in the contact patch tyre/tarmac will be worse
on every other corner of the car. After a few laps it will even out more or
less. So laptimes will be down after rotating, but will recover after a few
laps, but not to the full. When we buy new tyres, the old tyres are never
used to the same degree, rotation or not. We keep the best tyre and throw it
away after 10 years. You don't have to agree, this is amateur racing, you
are free to think otherwise with the same right. No one of us is going to
check laptimes to figure it out, and if he does, we still can contest the
circumstances of his tests and have an arguement and drink a pint or two.
Marcel

  _____  

Van: Fot [mailto:[email-masked]] Namens Kas Kastner via Fot
Verzonden: woensdag 22 april 2015 21:26
Aan: FOT
Onderwerp: [Fot] tire rotation

Never be beaten by equipment.

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<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><SPAN=20
class=3D733142707-23042015>Kas wrote : "I only tried rotation one time =
... and it=20
was a disaster to the handling".</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><SPAN=20
class=3D733142707-23042015>Are we all that stupid then?&nbsp; Absolutely =
not, we=20
are amateur racers and it should stay that way. In racing are countless=20
factors&nbsp; influencing the laptimes. As amateurs, we only use part of =
these=20
and&nbsp;forget about the rest because of no time, no money,&nbsp;too =
lazy,...=20
This is contrary to professional racing&nbsp;and especially races with=20
all&nbsp;identical cars : winning is (even more) important there and you =
can't=20
win if you don't see&nbsp;and take advance of all the opportunities.In =
amateur=20
racing, when you are down on power, or you are loosing time by slow =
overtaking,=20
you can compensate&nbsp;and&nbsp;gain laptime and&nbsp;still win or have =
a good=20
result by taking&nbsp;advance of other opportunities, for instance by =
not=20
rotating the tyres. When you are judging it's about time to rotate the =
tyres :=20
think about it : on what corner will that left rear tyre perform at it's =
best in=20
the next race? At the left rear of course, because the load distribution =
in the=20
contact patch tyre/tarmac will be worse on every other corner of the=20
car.&nbsp;After a few laps it will even out more or less. So laptimes =
will be=20
down after rotating, but will recover after a few laps, but not to the =
full.=20
When we buy new tyres, the old tyres are never used to the same degree, =
rotation=20
or not. We keep the best tyre and throw it away after 10 years. You =
don't have=20
to agree, this is amateur racing, you are free to think otherwise with =
the same=20
right. No one of us is going to check laptimes to figure it out, and if =
he does,=20
we still can contest the circumstances of his tests and have an =
arguement and=20
drink a pint or two.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><SPAN=20
class=3D733142707-23042015>Marcel</SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV lang=3Dnl class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><B>Van:</B> Fot =
[mailto:[email-masked]]=20
<B>Namens </B>Kas Kastner via Fot<BR><B>Verzonden:</B> woensdag 22 april =
2015=20
21:26<BR><B>Aan:</B> FOT<BR><B>Onderwerp:</B> [Fot] tire=20
rotation<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr>
<DIV>I only tried the rotation one time on my team cars TR-6 and GT-6 =
especially=20
, Goodyear racing tires with no tread, and it was a disaster to</DIV>
<DIV>the handling. <BR clear=3Dall></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_signature>
<P><STRONG><FONT color=3D#000099>Never be beaten by=20
equipment.</FONT></STRONG></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: Bob Kramer via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2015 13:04:09 +0000

I have flipped Hoosiers on the rims to extend tire life and what Marcel says is exactly right, it is a sad compromise. The first session out after the flip it feels like there is something terribly wrong with the car. What follows is a bad session, adjusting of corner entries and exits and a lack of consistent lap times. As a driver we adjust to the conditions and that includes substandard tires. These adjustment can become bad habits. (have you ever found yourself following a Mini around a turn...why?) Pro racers can tell when pressures are off and tires are going away. I think I just settle.

A lot of us vintage guys accept lousy tires on a regular basis because the "vintage spirits" tell us that the point is just to be out there with these old cars. What Marcel is saying, if I can put words in his mouth, is that if we are going to spend all this effort on prep, all this money and suffer the occasional heartbreak just to be out there, why not do it on good tires? Tires are expensive but they are one thing we can easily control and it vastly improves the  experience.

I remember the weekend when I set my all time best lap times ever in the TR4A. CVAR set up a special race where the grid was set slowest to fastest, cars started individually with calculation that would have everyone cross the finish line together. I had new tires that weekend, and I didn't rotate them. I pushed very hard to catch and pass every car, and I used all the grip that the new tires gave me. TWS is counterclockwise with eleven left-handers, most high speed, some on tough pavement. The right front was completely used up in one weekend, corded, but I did a 2:04. From that point on I started rotating tires and never did another 2:04. Looking back, I should have bought moire new tires.

at Texas World Speedway. A brand new set of Speedsters and a 

means that save the tires but 
Bob Kramer
[email-masked]

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From: Bob Kramer via Fot <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2015 19:46:30 +0000

I remember the weekend when I set my all time best lap times ever in the TR4A. CVAR set up a special race where the grid was set slowest to fastest, cars started individually with calculation that would have everyone cross the finish line together. I had new tires that weekend, and I didn't rotate them. I pushed very hard to catch and pass every car, and I used all the grip that the new tires gave me. TWS is counterclockwise with eleven left handers, most high speed, some tough pavement. The right front was ruined in one weekend but I did a 2:04. From that point on I started rotating tires and never did another 2:04. Looking back, now that he has my old car I should have bought more new tires.